Music Production Coordinator into Fractional COO | Jen Martensen [51] - Transferable Skills

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Transferable skills, skills, skills, skills from Cackle
Media. This is transferable skills.
I'm Noah, Michigan. Today's guest is Jen Martinson,
who shares her skills journey from music production
coordinator into fractional COO.If you're curious about how
music is created, what goes on behind the scenes, the business
side of it, TuneIn, listen to what Jen has to say.
She spent a good chunk of her career in the music production

(00:22):
world. Very interesting stories and
background. I hope you enjoy Jen Martinson.
It's great to have you here on the show.
Welcome. Thank you, Noah, Michigan.
It's great to be here. Walk us through the beginning of
your career. Where did that start?
What would you like to begin with?
It started really in college because when I went off to
college, I had no idea what I really wanted to do.
I started writing for my collegenewspaper.

(00:42):
I went to University of Illinoisin Champaign, and one of my
roommates was the summer entertainment editor.
And he was like, do you want to write record reviews?
And I was like, sure. And so I started writing record
reviews. And I quickly discovered I did
not like being a critic. I was like, you know, because I
was like, who am I to judge these people with everything
they're doing, what they're putting out into the world?
So I transitioned from writing record reviews to doing profile

(01:06):
interviews of bands and musicians that were coming
through town. And I loved that so much more
because I could hear their stories and talk about their
experiences, whether in life or in music, and could kind of
promote that as opposed to my solely my opinion.
And in Champagne at the time, there was a very active indie

(01:28):
music scene going on where therewas a lot of bands.
They were doing their own tours.They were not only making their
own records, but they were independent labels.
It was very much the Sub Pop era.
And I just started going to tonsand tons of concerts and I was
just like, I could do this thingI love to do socially
potentially as some sort of a career.
That's cool. But there isn't or there wasn't

(01:49):
at the time, a direct path of like major in this.
And you will do that because I never, I was never a musician.
I never wanted to be the performer on stage.
I was always interested in the production and the business
behind the scenes. And unless you became like a
lawyer, there wasn't really anything that was a, a path you

(02:09):
could follow. At one point, I was selling
display advertising for the newspaper as well.
And like, the local indie club was one of my accounts.
And every week there was an ad to proof and make sure that all
the dates and band names were correct.
And the friend of mine, he was the guy who booked the talent
there. And so he would show me his
booking calendar, like in line with proofing the ads.
And then he was like, oh, yeah, this band, I just booked them.

(02:30):
They're coming in six weeks. Here's the press kit.
And so I knew what a press kit was.
I had direct contact to a publicist, and a lot of times I
could just contact them, listen to their music, get the back
story on the band, do an interview, write up a draft and
go to my editor, who at the timewas Dave Eggers, the author.

(02:51):
Yeah. And he was great.
And I was like, here, this is the first draft.
These guys are coming in a month.
This is, you know, what I want to run on them.
And he was like, I never have toassign you anything.
And I was like, tell me if you agree on the angle, give it a
proofread. And he was like, cool.
So I just kind of had this constant stream of opportunities
to write these interesting profiles.
And then after I graduated, a friend of mine and I moved

(03:13):
together to New York City. Neither of us had a job.
It was the Pereira few 100 bucksin your pocket thing.
And and so my very first job I got out of a an ad in the back
of Stage magazine. I was an admin and like session
coordinator for a very small radio Jingle and commercial
production company. And I loved it because they had

(03:33):
an in house recording studio andtwo fun facts about that.
In addition to radio commercials, they often did jazz
albums in the studio. The only non jazz album recorded
there was Go Go's Beauty and theBeat, which I had played to
death when I was a kid. I'm like, that's cool.
And that's. Awesome to be in a space where
something important happened, regardless of like how important

(03:56):
is, but it's relative to you. And so if something was I you, I
think about the Abbey Road studios, like there was a very
short lived docu series I think years ago.
I saw this and it was really cool to see other musicians like
occupying that space and understanding the significance
of its history and. What is the reverence for it?
Yeah, and that's why it's one reason why I have come to love

(04:19):
recording studios, because they have that sort of essence of
everybody who's gone before soaked into the place, and they
all have this vibe that is just incredible.
As an undergrad, you started first with this little side
hustle as essentially like a music critic.
Yes. And then you're now interviewing
musicians and writing articles for the paper.

(04:41):
You're essentially a music journalist.
Yeah. How did you figure out how to do
that job? I followed my curiosity.
I, I often say I'm a business model nerd.
Like there are certain fundamental things that are
inherent in every single business that, you know, money
in, money out. There's some form of sales, some
form of purchasing, like hiring people, whether that's employees

(05:05):
or adjacent teams. There's always record keeping
and forecasting and financial things and branding and
marketing. Like all those things are part
and parcel of every single business endeavour that exists.
And so I'm always been, I've always been really curious about
how do all those different components play out, like in

(05:27):
terms of growth, in terms of success and what does success
mean to a particular person? I've always felt like I would
never really fit into a standardcorporate role.
Did you not want to continue down that path as a journalist?
I considered it like I considered a majoring in
journalism when I was in college, but it felt a little

(05:49):
bit like too small of a niche. Like instead of being able to be
involved in the operations and production and management of
something, it seemed it felt a little bit more like standing
outside of it and just observingand be like, yeah, there's that.
But I discovered I really liked,I liked the production aspects
of things. How do you bring something to
life? So you're essentially working

(06:11):
now as both a music journalist, but you're also now getting more
into the marketing side, into the booking side, into the
promotion side. Where does that go from there?
So it it goes to New York City. So I ended up spending my 20s in
New York City. When you don't care that you're
not sleeping, you don't care that you're broke, you're just
like, I'm going to live life andfigure out where I go from here.

(06:33):
So yeah. So the first job was at that
radio production company. And I learned about unions for
musicians like AFFM and AFTRA and SAG.
I learned how to operate and manage a recording studio.
I learned what the members of David Letterman's studio band
did during the day, like they would come in and be session

(06:54):
musicians. And I learned what getting paid
scale was. And I learned that even though
there's three or four guys that play pedal steel guitar in the
New York market, there's one guywho always gets booked when
you're on a time crunch because he could always walk in and just
nail the take and go. And he made a lot of money for
it. It pays.
To be reliable. Yes, indeed.
And but the owner of this company, he was this like

(07:15):
vintage radio voice guy. He had the most amazing radio
voice and like he was friends with Ben Stiller's parents, like
Stiller and Mira, who I actuallygot to meet once, which was
amazing. And so I would do all the
session coordinating and coordinate all the documents for
the unions and all that stuff and type all the cassette covers
from the sessions. And so the all of us who worked
on the back team started helpingeach other job hunt.

(07:38):
And so the general manager, who is technically my boss, one day
went out on a job interview and she came back and I was sitting
at the front desk and I said, how did it go?
And she's, it was great. I'm totally overqualified.
So I talked about you the whole time.
I basically sold you for this job and hands me the business
card to the guy she'd interviewed with and it, and

(08:00):
she's like, he's wait, this is, I'm dating myself.
He's like, he's waiting for you to fax your resume to him.
And basically you'll have a meeting, but essentially the job
is yours if you want it. And I was like, what?
And the business card, said Power Station Recording Studios.
And the name on the card was Barry Bon Jovi.
But it's BONGIOVI. And I was like, and she's got

(08:24):
it's that Bon Jovi. And I was like, OK.
And so I went and interviewed with him.
He was the greatest boss I had in my entire career.
We only worked together for maybe about a year, but he was
just such a Zen presence. Like, he was so funny and
engaging and supportive and for with everyone.

(08:46):
Everybody loved him. And his cousin Tony Bon Jovi was
the owner of Power Station Recording Studios.
And so I interviewed with him and I said I was for an
assistant manager role. And I said, this is such an
exciting opportunity for me. This is exactly what I would
love to be doing. I said, But technically
speaking, I don't know anything about recording.
And he's like, you don't have to.

(09:08):
So he hired me and the way he trained me was shadow me, watch
me, listen to the questions thatI ask, watch what I write down,
just watch how I interact with people.
And if anything doesn't make sense, ask me about it.
And that's what I'll where how we'll know what I should teach
you. And so when did he had this
giant like book under a phone onthe wall?

(09:28):
And every spread in this book was one day in all the studios,
and every studio had 24 hours you could book it.
And that was something to like. That must have been really fun
to look through with the historyof it.
Oh my God, It was incredible. And there was one book for every
year. But learning how to manage a
facility that not only was highly technical and required
lots of maintenance and acoustical testing, but ran

(09:50):
24/7, 365, that was like a wholeeducation itself.
He got this phone call and he's booking Studio A, which is the
main studio for like about six weeks out.
And he's asking us technical questions, financial questions.
And he's like writing all this stuff down.
And when he finishes that call, he said, OK, what if that didn't
make sense? And I said, I'll tell you the

(10:12):
only part that did make sense, which is those two words.
And it was the band name and it said Soul Asylum.
And I was like, I'm a huge fan of this band.
And he's cool. It's your project because as far
as they know, you're the managerof the entire studio.
You are in charge. Anything they need, they come to
you. And I was like panic attack.
I'm like, what if I don't know something that they ask me?

(10:35):
And he's like, don't panic, don't tell them that, right?
Come to me and I will teach you and you will be their liaison.
The album was Grave Dancers Union and the engineer on that
album was this guy named Chris Shaw.
I met some of the most influential and deeply connected
people in my life during that job, and even now when I hear

(10:58):
some of those things that I got to see happen, it's it's still
just gives me goosebumps. This is so cool.
That one year working under yourboss, being probably the best
boss you've ever had, a great leader, and it sounds like the
mentorship that you're given. Why do you think that felt
unique and why haven't? Why haven't many people
experienced that? That is a great question.

(11:20):
I just felt, I felt seen and heard and supported.
Like I felt like he saw the potential I had and recognized
that the fundamental skills I had cultivated and the curiosity
that I had was the right sort ofsoft skills fit for the role.
And he was like, there's certainthings you can teach people and

(11:42):
certain things are just innatelybuilt into someone's
personality. And I think he was just really
great at relating to people and having empathy for not only the
people that worked for him, but he had been a recording engineer
in the past. And I think he just understood
what artists needed in a studio environment and how to be that

(12:05):
leader, that mentor, that coach and guide.
And just having had the benefit of being embraced that way help
me understand that. Like having questions wasn't
ever a bad thing, and just because I might not know
something, it didn't mean I was not qualified.
No, it just means that you had yet to have access to that
information and you haven't experienced it, and now you just

(12:27):
need, like you said, subject matter can be learned and
there's certain things that are inherent and natural.
I have come to really enjoy the educational aspect of it.
Like now when I talk with clients, I'll ask, how much of
this do you want to learn? Whatever it is I'm partnering
with you on, Do you want to learn 10% of this?
50% of this? Do you want to become an expert?
Even if it's something they don't need to do, it's something

(12:49):
that can at least be less anxious about or less
intimidated by it, and that's amazing.
I think it's a huge factor of how a lot of people define
success. In that role, what would you, if
you could attribute a certain number of skills, What were the
vital skills to help you succeedin that role and what do you
think made you good at that job?I think the fundamentals of

(13:10):
project management. I've always been a very
organized person. The technical, the financial,
the creative, the technological aspects of all of those steps
along the way. I've just gotten really good at
being that kind of strategic planner, creative problem
solver, project manager. It essentially all boils down to

(13:31):
a three legged still of time, money and people and achieving
the best quality across all those things.
And of those three things, one thing is always anchored in
place, and then the other two pivot around it.
I was going to actually ask thatexact question.
Is it how likely is it for all three of those things to be
ideal or to be working out seamlessly?
Right. So somebody I just it's actually

(13:55):
episode that's currently released.
This individual was talking about I think was hobbies,
family and work. The three the his triangle was
those three things and you can never do or focus solely 100% on
all three of those things and dothem all well, but rather one
always suffers. And so in this case, it's not
that dissimilar. We're talking about your
triangle is talking about the three components for success and

(14:17):
and you're talking instead of one of them is not going to work
out. You're actually flipping the
you're saying one of them is primary.
It's the primary focus that you have to focus on the other that
the anchor point and then the other two feet off of that.
Yeah, it's so, yeah. It's like schedule and budget
and resources. So if you have a hard deadline,
then the schedule is fixed. You have to do everything you

(14:39):
can to meet that hard date, and that means you're going to throw
a lot of money and a lot of people at it in order to achieve
that date. If you have a fixed budget, then
you can only hire so many peopleand therefore your timeline
might extend because that's all you can afford.
If you only have a certain number of people, then there's
only so much bandwidth you have and that can only spend so much

(15:02):
money and it's going to take however long it takes because
you just have a single like critical path through something.
You know, it's that's why I say if two of those things are
anchored in place, then you are really in a tough spot.
If you have only a certain team and you have a hard deadline,
you better have one heck of a budget.
So that's a great way to look atit.
So originally you're talking about, OK, there one of those
things is the anchor point and the other feet off of that.

(15:23):
But in this case also, if you have two things that you talk
about being the anchor points, we're steadfast about we they're
deal Breakers, they're non negotiables.
How do we succeed in this given that these two things can't
compromise? One of them is flexible, but
something is going to give. Yeah.
And I think just identifying that upfront and outlining that
part of navigating any tricky situation is always control the

(15:47):
things you can control and influence things that are within
your influence. Do you have a term or even like
your own purse around that, likethe three that was 3 points in
management life cycle? Yeah, it's often referred to as
the triangle constraint. Actually recently did a sub
stack article about that and about this very topic just
because whenever people talk about scope or project

(16:10):
management or scheduling and budgets, I think all those
things often feel restraining orconstricting to people.
And so I wanted to talk about this and write about it because
in a way, just understanding that this is the boundaries that
you're working within can actually be liberating and it
can be empowering and it can be freeing where it's like there

(16:34):
are a couple. If two things are in place, then
it's like, don't even worry about them.
Because if you can't influence them, then it frees you up to
focus on the aspect or aspects of things that you are able to
navigate and change and influence in order to make
things work out the best way possible.
Navigating people through a lot of things that either they fear

(16:55):
or are overwhelmed by or just don't understand, that's so much
of what I do now. A lot of times if I work with
someone who is in an industry orrunning their own business
because they are a creative person and they're just like,
this is what I do because it's who I am.
And thinking about the finances of something, the systems and
processes of something, they're like, that is not how my brain

(17:16):
works. It's not something I understand.
So I'm not doing it, even thoughit's an essential part of
running an effective and efficient business.
That's where I'm like, let me walk you through this the first
time so you can bring down some of that noise and that anxiety.
But in terms of setting expectations, that's exactly
where the project manager in me came to embrace contracts and

(17:42):
scope documents and putting things in writing and just
understand. I mean, like when I worked in
music, I discovered how fundamentally contract driven it
is when you work at a record label.
Like the terms of an artist's contract dictate everything.
How much money they get, how it gets recouped and paid back, who

(18:03):
gets approval on what, how royalties work.
And when I worked at the recording studio at the time, it
was all still physical tape and it was like the studio owned the
tape until the final bill was paid.
It was like the transfer of intellectual property or
physical property ownership and the just outlining those terms.
Like I learned very quickly how essential that is.

(18:27):
The studio owns the tape until the final bills paid.
The final bills paid is only done so once the artists and the
representation is satisfied, andthey're only satisfied based on
if all their conditions have been met.
And so if you've glossed over all of those requirements in the
contract, then you're going to miss a lot.
It's only going to lead to conflict.
And 99% of the time, ironically,even if you meet all of those

(18:50):
conditions, the entity that's paying the studio bill and
therefore owns the recordings isthe label, not the artist.
And that's where that transitionfrom an idea and art into
product is. That's exactly when that
happened. So do from that standpoint, as
somebody who has this deep feeling, it's art, it's the

(19:11):
humanity side of you from in here in your heart, right, You
feel it right. And then and then you got the
contract side, you got the project management side.
Where do you find your kind of left brain, right brain balance?
You're the creative side, the artistic side with some of your
project management side. Where do those influence one
another in your job? Yeah, it's an amazing question.
Like actually one of the other T-shirts I have has a an image

(19:34):
on it, and it's literally half brain and half heart.
I've always just been very respectful and appreciative of
everything in that realm. But I've also just always been
fascinated by the nuts and boltstactical parts too.
But just the family I was raisedin the environment I was raised
in, it was like my parents always had jobs or was like they

(19:56):
get a paycheck every two weeks and benefits and went to an
office or a work location. And then I was always told get a
college degree and, and I went to a big state school and I was
just always raised as be a professional and get that job
and climb the ladder. And that was success.
And. I think I've brought that

(20:17):
purview into just coming to understand and work with people
who are they are their their industry.
I have a friend who used to livein LA and I went to visit her.
This was like 2001 and a friend of hers is a very well known and
established musician, a well known and established band.
She happened to take me to his birthday party at his house.

(20:39):
I didn't know that was going to happen.
And I walked in and he's friendswith all these other musicians
and they're actors or all these people.
And I'm in this house in the Hollywood Hills.
But I quickly looked and I was like, here are these individual
people. A lot of them actually grew up
in Chicago. And so when I got introduced to
a lot of these people, and my friend was like, this is Jen,
she's visiting from Chicago. And they're like, no way.

(20:59):
Where'd you go to high school? Like the connection was instant
and so human. And that's when I realized,
like, every single one of these people is a freelancer.
Like, they are very successful. Many of them are household
names, recognizable faces. I'm like, you're a freelancer.
And when I looked at it that way, like the veil kind of came
down of appreciating what it takes to have the confidence and

(21:25):
the wherewithal to be like, I'm going to go be me and create
this not only a career, but an industry and a brand about me.
And I'm like, I don't think I ever would have had that level
of ambition and confidence and to do something like that.

(21:46):
But it's why being a little bit behind the scenes is where I
feel most comfortable. Like supporting that and working
with people so that they can succeed at that kind of endeavor
is exactly where I feel the happiest and most confident
myself. So in this realization
freelancer that can have a tremendous influence for others

(22:09):
and affect positive change and success.
How do you create your own brandnow in building this new
business that you feel represents who you are,
leveraging your background whileoffering somewhat of a unique
service out in the world? It's an amazing question.
There came a point when I was working at Electra and it was

(22:33):
when the early days of the Internet, like Metallica was
signed to Electra. And that was the first thing I
thought of is. It was exactly that.
And as all of that was bubbling in its cauldron, at one point my
boss, who was the head of ANR, had come out of a meeting with
the label president and other executives across the Warner

(22:54):
Music Group, which Electra was part of.
And she came into my office and she said, I have a project for
you, and it's different from what you usually do.
Are you up for that? And I said sure.
And she said I will never forgetthis.
She said I need to know what an MP3 is and I need to sound like
I know what I'm talking about. And I was like, OK.

(23:16):
And I started reading articles and researching it and just
understanding like, what was thewhole big deal about Napster and
Metallica? And I started going to every
seminar or workshop or speaking opportunity I could, and I went
to this one. It was like an artist panel
talking about like the earliest aspects of the digital

(23:39):
revolution. Were they talking about it from
the standpoint of excitement fordistribution and accessibility,
or were they talking from the standpoint of liability and IP
and threat and ROI? Exactly.
Absolutely. Threat and Vernon Reed from
Learning from Living Color was on this artist panel and he said
and the Living Color was signed to one of the Sony Music labels
at the time. And he said my label registered

(24:02):
the domain name www.vernonread.com without
asking me, without giving me theopportunity to ahead of time.
And he's that's my name. That's not Living Color.
That's me as a human beings. If I wanted to put pictures of
my kids and family up on a personal website, I can't do
that because it is now intertwined with the terms of my

(24:23):
contract. They were also adding a lot of
addendums to existing contracts.They were just like, yeah, now
we own all the digital stuff too.
Sue us if you want to argue about it.
And because the labels felt likethey were in a position of
strength because they already owned the copyrights to most of
the recordings and in some casespublishing wings and major
labels owned the songwriting rights, or at least 50% of them.

(24:47):
And so they felt like they had this undeniable position of
leverage to to just do that. But when he said that, again, it
was like bringing it down to theindividual humanity of it.
And he was like, you know, I'm not saying I wanted that domain,
but I never had the opportunity.And now it's intertwined with
the entire Sony Music Corporation.

(25:07):
And I was like, OK. So from there, I made the
lateral move from being a production coordinator for a
major label and organizing and managing the creation of album
projects. I started working for major
digital marketing agencies, first in New York and then in
Chicago, and I became a producerslash project manager for large

(25:30):
scale corporate websites and digital marketing campaigns.
So I worked with clients like Cover Girl and General Motors
and Northern Trust Bank and the US Army.
And I figured out how did these people not only market
themselves online, which involves creativity and

(25:50):
technology and money and legalities, but how did they do
business online? And I was given the opportunity
once when I worked at ARC Worldwide, which is the digital
sister agency Leo Burnett. And then after that, I went to
Razorfish, which was more purelydigital.
But at both of those agencies, Iwas given the opportunity to get

(26:11):
out of the nitty gritty project management and be either a part
of at ARC or solely the person to create either strategic
sourcing vendor management team,which was all about establishing
and managing relationships with outside vendors and partners.
And there's a huge legal component to that, but also then

(26:33):
working with internal teams, whether that's production or
creativity or technology on how do you then engage these
partners on a project level under master agreement?
I want to get your actual professional experience and
opinion on this that I'm a little bit in the dark.
I've managed project managers before, I know what they do.

(26:54):
I'm curious if there is a universal approach to project
management or maybe a Jen Martinson specific approach to
it. How much level of detail do you
feel a project manager needs to own and know about?
Every entity within the project cycle?
All the stakeholders? All the different disciplines,
department? How much do you need to know or

(27:14):
how much is too much? Oh boy, that's a big question.
I think you have to know a lot about a lot.
You have to. It's not that you have to know
every single detail and you don't or you don't have to be
the owner and you don't have to be the stakeholder for
everything. I think one of the most

(27:35):
essential things is is defining or identifying who the
stakeholders are and what components of your project each
stakeholder overseas or owns or has decision making power over.
Because a lot of project management is managing

(27:58):
boundaries, managing pathways and channels and keeping
everyone in their own lane, which means you have to be both
behind the wheel and in the helicopter above everything and
making sure everything is proceeding accordingly.
One of the greatest challenges for project managers is you
don't know what you don't know. That's where you have to be
collaborative. You have to be able to

(28:19):
communicate with people to gather all of the necessary
information that other people are going to need.
So if you're working with creative people and technology
people and financial people, youhave to be able to work with
each one of those people closelyenough and establish that trust
and that transparency so that each one of those groups feels

(28:43):
comfortable and supported in contributing what they need to
contribute in order for the other folks to do what they need
to do. But also to make their
decisions, to give their approvals, to review what's
needed to review and not just throw smoke bombs into various

(29:05):
points of the project. So is would, if I'm
understanding correctly, are yousuggesting that the detail of
the individual parts components of the project are less
important than building the trust and understanding the
individual stakeholders that areleading those pieces?
And so that way they're just delivering what they need to
deliver. All you're doing is essentially

(29:26):
managing the project and timeline and then just trust
that they're doing what they gotto do.
Yeah, it's setting the expectations right.
It's identifying the leads and the decision makers, but also
the points of decision, and thengiving them the framework, the
systems, the workflows to where it's easy and intuitive for them

(29:47):
to contribute their information and glean the other parts of
information they need in order to do whatever they need to do
and fulfil their role in the overall endeavour.
Because then it's like they knowwhat they need to do, they know
how they're supposed to do it, and then it's up to them to do
it or not. And if they don't, it's on them.
And it's this is your role. And I do a lot of work with

(30:08):
clients about role definition asa in an addition that often
results in a job description. But it's not just the particular
job, it's the role. And I make the distinction of a
role is how someone participatesin the broader organization,
whereas a job is just the details of what you're doing.
And I think defining those rolesin every phase of a project is

(30:32):
such a essential structure for everyone to successfully operate
on. From an architectural point of
view, like an analogy is you have the designers, you have
engineers, you have various tradespeople, and someone who's
building the frame of a house needs the plans from the

(30:53):
architect and the engineers and the drafters to understand this
is what I'm building and the limitations.
You need to have a permit, you need to have your materials, you
need to have, you need to understand that by building this
frame, then electricians and plumbers and finishers and
carpenters and designers are going to add things to it.

(31:14):
And so I need to understand where in the whole process my
framing work comes in, what thatframing needs to consist of so
that everybody else can do what they need to do and you have the
result you're aiming for. Yeah, good job.
Because you were speaking my language obviously, you know, by
design you chose architecture because it's the language I also

(31:35):
speak. And as soon as you said that, I
have a much deeper understandingof the project management
workflow because the architect who is the master builder is
also often, very often the project manager to manage all of
those different individuals and disciplines.
And come on, it's like you said,schedule, it's materials, it's
permits, it's legalities, logistics, it's a lot of

(31:57):
different things. And yeah, I understand.
And to put a dot on the analogy,a lot of what I do is not only
that sort of project management where it's an external
activities of a project. A lot of what I also do is
helping set up and manage and optimize a lot of those same
areas of focus say within the architectural firm or within a

(32:21):
trades company, right. So when I came out of marketing,
after I'd been there for like 17ish years, I was like, this is
not what I dreamed of doing. When I was a little kid, I had
worked for a small technology firm and they got acquired.
And when they got acquired, there were other people in the
acquiring company that did the role I did.
And so my role was eliminated. And so for the first time in my

(32:45):
life, I was given a period of time where I was getting paid a
severance and I didn't have to work.
And so I was like, OK, let me take a breath and figure out
what's next. And I saw a lot of job listings
where I was like, oh, I could totally kick ass at this job.
And I was like, I do not want todo that.
I just, and I applied a whole bunch and got no responses.

(33:05):
And I was like, this might be the universe telling me it's
time to really make a more dramatic shift.
And I have a friend who she had founded ADJ company and at the
time she owned and was managing a small Co working space in
Logan Square. And so I started going there to
work somewhere else and be in a different space.
And she came to me one day and she said, so what's next?
What's your deal? And I was like, that's what I'm
trying to figure out. And being a creative

(33:26):
entrepreneur, she helped me strategize what I'm doing now,
which is my, my company is Backline Business consulting.
And basically, I got back to thefundamentals of working in what
I describe as the business behind creativity and working
with solopreneurs, those freelancers and small businesses
and people who launched their business because they were

(33:50):
innately creatively driven to dowhatever it is they're doing.
But knowing that they are peoplewho need a partnership for all
these fundamental business things, but that is not their
primary skill set or interest. And in fact, they may be like, I
don't want to even think about it.
So I that's, that is the partnerI am to them.

(34:11):
I operate as a fractional COO, director of operations, but on a
contract basis that that companyto company, business to business
type of engagement where it's not just me coming in and
running 1 project, it's let me help you run your entire company

(34:32):
looking at systems and technology and applications,
looking at their finances. When I launched my business, I
started out leading conversations talking about
bookkeeping, and that's one service I can offer.
Because if your books are a mess, everything else I
guarantee you will be a mess. So it's an essential foundation.
So now when I do bookkeeping, it's always part of a bigger,

(34:53):
broader operational package because it's like we have to get
that in line so that we can lookat patterns and set goals and
understand what levers to pull in order to help you achieve
them. And working for myself was a
terrifying pivot. What are you most concerned
about? Never having work, never having

(35:15):
income, like people being like, yeah, no, and just establishing
a business, providing something that people need outside of a
corporate structure. My entire time in marketing was
within corporate global conglomerates, and it worked
really well within all of the different aspects of those large

(35:35):
scale agencies with major clients.
But stepping into my own business felt very vulnerable.
Do you have a perspective that you typically impart on others
who are trying to distinguish the difference between a need
and a want in their business? They would like some help
looking at something, but they don't really fully understand
the full scope of that need. That's a fantastic question.

(35:57):
Yeah, I've set my viewpoint my my steps into understanding
clients, businesses to first look at what are just what are
the phases of your business. Everybody has some sort of
business development or marketing and sales, and then a
customer or a client happens. They become someone who's

(36:18):
actually doing business with you.
So what is that exchange? And then there's delivery of
something, whether you're makingsomething or selling something.
And then there's the resolution of that where you get paid or a
contract gets fulfilled and a scope of something ends.
And then you review that and analyze and go, what did I learn

(36:40):
from that? What did I get from that?
What did I give into that? What, what?
Well, what didn't? And then you start all over
again. I help people look at, identify
and define those phases because there's one in every business.
And then for each of those phases, I help them examine each
phase from 5 different levels. So again, like roles, systems,

(37:02):
finances, inputs, outputs, and it just helps you get more
comfortable in the fabric of your business and understand,
OK, here's a pain point. And then that by breaking it
down that we can figure out at what point are things not
working efficiently and what arethe factors that are causing

(37:23):
that pain and then you can address how to alleviate them.
All right, one more question before we wrap up here.
Given your natural strengths andlearn skills, what is a job you
might excel at but are also exceedingly overqualified for?
Being a bookkeeper, like I've learned to do that really well

(37:45):
and, and getting all the numbersin the right places and running
reports makes my brain really happy.
But I've also learned how to analyse and assess what is this
telling you about your business?And, and I always say that all
financial data is instantly historical, like from the second
something happens, it's in the past, but it can influence your

(38:07):
future. You can use view different views
of that information to identify patterns to set goals and figure
out OK, if I want to do this like here's what I can adjust or
tweak, what levers I can pull toget there financially.
And now I'm going to push even further, OK, because I like your

(38:30):
answer, but I'm not satisfied. OK, if there was a second one,
what would your guilty pleasure job might be?
Probably like a local retail store owner, a stuff I like
store, some place that's some ofthese people like to come in and
just buy things that smell good or look cool or like quirky

(38:55):
T-shirts. The guy at one point I, I had
this Daydream that future sort of retirement career might be
opening an art gallery, like a storefront art gallery that is
very pop art oriented in a way, or current contemporary art
oriented. And the artists I would feature
are all people who have an established primary career in

(39:17):
another field, but then have become artists, like an actor
who paints or a writer that alsodoes photography, or a musician
that I don't know is a sculptor.And then have a retail aspect of
this art gallery that also sellsthe proceeds, the things that

(39:39):
they have created in their primary career.
Is your vision dictating that their primary career is also in
a form of art, or does it? Not necessarily.
So they could be like an accountant and then on the side
they paint and they've got like this art that they produce.
But it's, yeah, it would be likefeaturing the work of people who

(40:00):
started doing whatever form of art strictly because it stirred
up in them and they didn't, theynever set it out to be a career
for them or in a museum or a form of primary income, that it
was a hobby, that it was a just a passion pursuit.
But fully embracing the businessand commercial nature of it,
it's hey, I'll print T-shirts, I'll make mugs, I'll help do

(40:22):
things that might help bring that artwork to more people in
ways that they might enjoy usingeveryday.
That's cool. I like that a lot.
And I like that you have it veryspecifically focus on an artist
with a primary other job. That's it's an interesting
window until what else goes on in their brains.
I liked it. That was a perfect answer.
It's great to nerd out with you about this stuff.

(40:44):
So thank you for being here and sharing your background, your
skills, what you're doing. Absolutely.
I want to thank Brooke Associatefor introducing me to Jen so
many years ago. She's been an incredible friend,
somebody that I always enjoy talking to.
And I want to thank Jenn for being here as today's guest.
I also want to thank you, our listeners, for joining us on
this episode of Transferable Skills.
Remember, the skills you've gained can take you anywhere.
Until next time, keep exploring those transferable skills.

All Episodes

Music Production Coordinator into Fractional COO | Jen Martensen [51]

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Music Production Coordinator into Fractional COO | Jen Martensen [51]