January 6, 2023 • 30 mins
Happy New Year, Tree Speechers! We celebrate 2023 and our 30th episode by speaking with Swedish-American author Linda Åkeson McGurk, whose book "The Open-Air Life: Discover the Nordic Art of Friluftsliv and Embrace Nature Every Day” shows us how to embody a Frilufsliv life by getting outside and embracing the outdoors no matter the time of year or temperature. Our conversations explore the many ways being outside strengthens our mental and physical health, builds community, and nurtures a necessary relationship with nature. Even more, it might all be more simple than you think!
This episode was written and recorded in Massachusetts on the native lands of the Wabanaki Confederacy, Pennacook, Massa-adchu-es-et (Massachusett), and Pawtucket people, and in New York on the land of the Lenapee tribes, as well as the Sápmi tribe of Sweden. Tree Speech is co-written and produced by Jonathan Zautner with Alight Theater Guild.
For more information about Linda Åkeson McGurk, please visit https://lindamcgurk.com/
To learn more about our podcast and episodes, please visit treespeechpodcast.com. We’re thrilled to be able to offer interviews, creative insights, and stories about the natural world we live in, and the trees who guide our way. Please also consider supporting us through our Patreon - every contribution supports our production, and we’ll be giving gifts of gratitude including an invitation to Tree House, our new virtual community for patrons of all levels. Please also consider passing the word to tree loving folks, and rate and review us on Apple podcasts. Every kind word helps.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Happy New Year. It's 2023.
And we are glad to be back today.
Feels especially celebratory as it marks our 30th episode and we
are so thankful to all our listeners and Newfound tree
Community. It has been our pleasure
creating this podcast and we look forward to many more
episodes. To come when we began the
(00:32):
podcast. We never could have dreamed of
the places that are connections to trees would take us.
And to the people, we would meetalong the way.
In today's episode, we'll talk with Swedish American Author,
Linda, okasan mcgurk, whose bookThe open-air Life, discover the
Nordic art of free Lutz league and embrace nature everyday,
(00:55):
shows us how to embody a free Loops leave Life by getting
outside and embracing Outdoors, no matter the time of year or
temperature, especially in thesedarker and colder.
January days. When it may be more appealing to
curl up inside Linda writes about the many ways being
outside strengthens our mental and physical health, builds
(01:17):
community, and nurtures a necessary relationship with
nature the passion for the open-air life, that she not only
advocates for, but also lives herself is hiring and I have a
new appreciation and drive to connect even deeper to Nature
around me as the famous Scandinavian.
(01:38):
Saying goes, there's no such thing as, bad weather, only bad
clothing. My name is Dori Robinson and
this is tree speech a podcast where we strive to listen to the
forest through the trees. This week's episode was written
and recorded in Massachusetts onthe native lands of the wabanaki
Confederacy. Penacook the massachusett and
(02:01):
Pawtucket people and in New Yorkon the lands of the Lenape
tribes as well as the sapne tribe of Sweden, tree speech is
co-written and produced by Jonathan Zellner with a light
theater Guild The Norwegian concept free Lutz leave means
open-air life or free are life or fresh air life.
(02:23):
The word was first published by the famous playwright Henrik
Ibsen and a poem in 1859, which reads in the lonely Cedar
Corner. My abundant catch, I take
there's a heart and a table and free Lutz leave for my thoughts.
Free Lutz leave far predates this poem and Has been in the
(02:45):
Norwegian Society for over 5,000years, the Norwegian government
defines this as embracing nature, and enjoying the
outdoors, as a way of life, a possibility of recreation
Rejuvenation and restoring balance, among other things, a
way of returning to our true home, where humans and nature
(03:05):
intersect and the value that is created in those meetings.
Linda okasan McGurk's previous book is a major centered
parenting Memoir. There's no such thing as bad
weather. A Scandinavian mom's secret for
raising healthy resilient and confident kids from free leads.
Leave to he gay and she and her books have been featured in
(03:27):
several leading. American magazines newspapers
and online sites, including the Wall Street Journal, the New
York Times Psychology today. Orion magazine tree hugger and
many more Linda lives in Sweden,but had spent 15 years in
Indiana where she sorely missed the relationship with land.
(03:48):
She had previously had in Swedenwith forests streams and
mountains, quite nearby. That's part of what is so
wonderful about. Free leads, leave it can happen
in one's backyard. All connection with nature is
valuable. This is the heart of Linda's
work to continue to find ways. Both big and small.
(04:10):
To be within our natural environments jumping in puddles,
digging, in dirt climbing, to the tops of mountains,
conducting business meetings, while on a walk or sleeping
outside under the stars, are allpossible ways to lead to an
open-air of Life. Speaking with Linda was an
absolute pleasure. So many of my own personal
(04:32):
values such as being outside communing with trees finding
ways. Both big and small to learn
about nature. Are what she speaks about and
lives every day. I hope you find our conversation
as enlightening as I did. Let's listen.
(04:58):
Hello Linda. How are you?
I'm great. Thank you for having me on.
Congratulations on this recent release of your new book, the
open-air life, we have loved reading it and we've been really
inspired by it. So thank you for taking the time
to speak with us about it today.Thank you so much.
I and that was the purpose of the book really to inspire.
(05:22):
So it makes my heart happy to hear that it's having the
intended results. Very much so.
And it's not a concept that is very prevalent in such a
thoughtful put together way. So could you describe for our
listeners? What the open-air life means to
you? Yeah, of course, open-air life.
(05:44):
So that's, that's sort of my translation, loose loose
translation of the, the Swedish word, three lifts, leave, and
that roughly translates to open air life and it ruined, Goes
back to to the 1850s. When people felt like, you know,
it industrialization and urbanization, we're sort of
(06:07):
starting to take their toll on people and they were sort of
seeking out the countryside and trying to reconnect with the
lifestyle that they used to have.
And so that's sort of very briefly the history of it, since
then, it's been just a lifestylehere in the Nordic countries
that I grew up with I think in The US were more used to
(06:30):
thinking of outdoor life in terms of outdoor recreation.
It's more sort of focused on activities and a lot of times,
maybe more sort of exhilarating or adrenaline-inducing
activities or hiking big month mountains or hunting fishing
(06:51):
writing ATVs and things like that.
But feel if Steve is a little different in that, it can
certainly involve hiking and Theclimbing big mountains, but it
really emphasizes sort of nearbynature and connecting with
nature in everyday life and whatever way you can.
And of course this is going to depend like how you do it.
(07:11):
It's going to depend on where you live and what kind of access
you have to Green spaces. So to me it's something that I,
like I said, I've grown up with it, I live in rural Sweden now.
So to me it's about being out there every day I have I have my
routines and rituals and nature.Like I go outside every day, I
(07:32):
have a walk that I that I go on and to do it every day,
regardless of the weather, whichis another sort of main idea
behind fetus. Leave is to to really try and
find something to love about every season and every type of
weather. So that's the short short
version. Wonderful answer.
(07:53):
Thank you. You incorporate.
Prelude sleeve into your life and into Your children's lives.
Can you tell us a bit more aboutthat incorporation and that
integration? Yeah, a lot of it is really
about finding ways of being active outside in your everyday
life, like for example, walking places or riding your bike
(08:16):
places instead of taking your car and granted I live in a
rural area so that's not always practical here.
But if I go to the city for example 2 Try and, you know,
maybe Park not, not drive like all the way to the door, but to
park a little ways away. And also do do some walking or
(08:38):
taking public transit because that way you also get that sort
of everyday movement in, I thinkit's important to sort of
rekindle that relationship with walking.
It's about embracing whatever you have nearby.
So it's just about, yeah, embracing what you have?
Embracing what you have in all four seasons.
(08:59):
Yes. And actually you enjoy doing
like my kids are older now. So when they were little of
course, then you know it's easy to to just go outside and play
but now they're 11 and 14. So it's a little bit of a bit
more about. They sometimes want more
challenges or to them is more important to have a goal or a
(09:20):
destination, but we we compromise and we usually we
have a good time. Feel if Steve is Of the main
actually main ways that we spendquality time together on the,
especially on the weekends, and it's a great even for a
teenagers, it's something that you can do all life which you
know I really want to emphasize that to you.
Start them young and it's something, you know unlike
(09:43):
boards for example which a lot of kids play when they're
younger. Maybe through high school,
possibly through college if you really good.
But after that, you know, let's face it.
A lot of people don't perceive Sue that those boards anymore,
but with the loose sleeve is something that you do build the
foundation in the in the early years and then it's something
(10:04):
you can do. If you're in good health, you
can do it in your golden years as well, for sure.
And it will help you stay in good health as well.
Very, very much so. I mean, that was one of the
things that really stuck out to us about the book is that you
have a chapter on how the outdoor is, play a part in
bringing joy and health through all seasons of life and I do
(10:26):
That there's a great emphasis onyounger, rather than older.
Yes. And we don't talk about that a
lot. Yeah.
And unfortunately, it was a lot of nursing homes and and
institutions like that. It is always hard to find the
time and staff to provide residents with experiences, like
(10:47):
that. But in in Sweden, sealer, Steve
is such a strong part of the tradition here that they really
tried to to provide The elderly with walks or being able to be
outside and do some gardening, you're seeing like greenhouses
and and they're out there grilling and they have all kinds
(11:09):
of kinds of fun outdoor activities for the elderly.
And if it's a good it's just a good idea all around.
It makes them happy but it also Studies have actually shown that
you know, by bringing in more. Yeah like gardening and time for
the elderly to be. Outside.
They need less medication and their symptoms of stress and
(11:31):
anxiety go down. So it's really a win-win.
I think for everybody involved, do you remember when he first
became acquainted with free Loops leave as as a concept or
was it always there? My grandparents took me to
Swedish Lapland which is the mountainous area, north of the
Arctic Circle. And so I think that's going like
(11:55):
going back. Back through memories.
That's probably the trip that has sort of meant the most to
me. But I don't know that it's
because of the memories that I have from that trip because I
was only three years old at the time.
But there were so many. There were pictures that we sort
of became, you know. We kept revisiting this trip, my
(12:17):
grandparents and I and I was very close to my grandparents
and I think it's because we knowthat not only spending time in
nature, When you spend it with, when you spend the time with
people, that you're close to that, you love that really
amplifies the experience and that makes you even more
attached to the place. What an extraordinary thing that
(12:40):
it's so multi-layer, that it's the memories of your
grandparents, it's the memories of the land, it's the memories
that come again and again through the photos.
That's, that's sort of how life is, is you experience something
once and then again and again, yes, motional.
A mentally. Yeah and eventually your
memories and the pictures and itall kind of Blends together and
(13:02):
you don't know exactly what what's memories and what's you
know what came from the slide shows in your grandparents
basement, but it doesn't really matter because the what matters
is that? You know, I have this place in
my heart I just love it. It like every time I come up
there and I see the same scenerythat I had in those that my
grandparents had in their pictures, like it gives me
(13:23):
goosebumps every time and gives me goosebumps just talking About
it. It's like it's that profound to
me and it's giving me Goose Bumps just hearing about it.
I mean those are the stories that really shape us.
Those are the stories of our souls and yes.
Become who we are. Yeah.
So it comes naturally to me to try and create those those
(13:45):
stories for my kids. That's been the main driving
Factor behind me trying to make sure that my kids to have this
sort of deeper. Ship with nature because that's
really what through the state isabout really feeling that nature
is home. It's not just an abstraction in
(14:07):
a textbook, it's a place the place where we came from and
it's a place where, where we at least should feel at home and
the more you practice view to see the more comfortable, you
will be because a lot of people today, unfortunately, as we've
been become alienated from nature over, Percent of us in
(14:27):
the developed world at least live in cities today, and we
spend so much time indoors and we're plugged into all our
devices, and there's just so much to gain from from sort of
digging into that evolutionary past of being out there.
That's something you emphasized in the book is, is that it's a
(14:49):
practice which is such an important point.
I mean, we, you know, the fact that we do Exotic, Sighs.
You know, national parks and we think of Nature and these things
as being far away and hard to touch.
And we forget that there is so much locally and there's so much
we can do locally and ways that we can be involved locally.
(15:11):
One story from your book that really hit me was the person who
wanted to sleep outside once a week, every week, every week for
a year and because of work he ended up doing.
So not necessarily far away but fine.
Being the Beauty and the open era life in within the city,
whether it was backyards or playground or yeah.
(15:34):
And I think that we think it is far away always and we miss,
what's beautiful right here? Yeah, I mean I've had some
amazing campus when my girls without leaving our Deck with
even you know, slept on our outdoor furniture sometimes and
just because there's been a starry night.
(15:56):
There was a night and just now in September, when my 14 year
old looked up at the night sky, we were sitting in our living
room and she said, mom, have youseen this guy tonight?
It's so beautiful. Just look out there.
Can we can we sleep outside? And at first, I just didn't feel
like it at all. Is like, you know, comfortably
(16:17):
Seated on the couch, you know, watching a show or whatever.
Not in the mood at all. But then I took a look at the of
the At the sky at night sky too.And I was like, you know, this
is really something it was so pretty.
It was just so many stars out and I just felt like, well, you
know, my 14 year old just asked me to sleep outside.
(16:40):
I can't like I can't deny her then, so I just pulled myself
together and we ended up sleeping on the, on our couches
on the deck that night and it was beautiful just to be able to
go to sleep and have that sort of as your backdrop drop that
alone, just it's moving and it'sall inspiring for sure.
(17:02):
Anytime, you look at the night sky, I think.
And I'm, I'm not, I'm not a typically like a religious
person, but I look at the night sky.
And I'm like, that's, it's so itmakes me very, very humble and
understanding that, I do not understand a lot of life's
mysteries. And so that's that's what my so
(17:25):
to me. Three, listen.
Is very much spiritual to, it's a way that I, even though, I
don't have like an affiliation with a church per se.
I like being out in nature because it, it makes me feel
part of. I mean, this sounds super cliche
but it's so true makes me feel part of something greater than
(17:48):
myself. You know, something that's been
there for eons before me and will still be there long after
I'm gone. And That's there's something.
There's something to that, that,that makes you humble very much.
So I think I mean nature is so full of Oz for us, it's very
(18:08):
much trees that are all inspiring.
That's that's what we go to, andthink of and treat you mentioned
that trees have a special standing with the open-air life.
Can you tell us about caring trees?
It's such a wonderful that goes back to the old.
Sort of agrarian society when trees were so special, they they
(18:32):
were seen as sort of the like a gathering place for a lot of the
sort of supernatural creatures that people believed in back
then. And so in the countryside,
people would often they would try to build their houses like
near a large tree because they you know, they felt Like that
(18:57):
way, they would be protected andif there wasn't a tree on the
land to begin with, they would usually plant a tree.
The idea being that if you took care of this tree and nurse,
stood and kept all the supernatural creatures happy.
Then they would look after you and and the farm animals as
(19:17):
well. So I have some ideas in my book
for how you can benefit from thepower of trees and one of them
is tree-hugging It was actually my sister who introduced me to
tree-hugging it. And at first, I thought it was
kind of. Yeah, it was.
It was I thought it was kind of silly at first but then I
started doing it. And I was like, I like this,
(19:37):
it's calming and soothing, and actually, I've noticed two, I
had an incident. When my youngest daughter when
she was little, I think she was about five P.
She often threw Tantrums when she was little.
I noticed that one point that trees seemed to calm her down.
And at one point, you know, She had a tantrum and we went
(19:58):
outside because it does seem like going outside.
Would diffuse the Tantrums as well?
And I walked away for a few minutes because I had to cool
off and I felt like she had to cool off.
And then I came back, I found her sitting at the at the roots
of this. I think it was a birch tree and
she had clasped her arms. She had wrapped wrapped her arms
(20:19):
around this tree and she was just kind of leaning into it.
And then I asked her what she was doing and she said, That I
found a friend while you were gone.
I was like, okay, well tell me more and she told me that she
felt safe around the tree and, yeah, like, I end up writing a
whole blog post about it becauseI was, it was a revelation to me
(20:41):
that that children like even young children, could actually
feel very calm DIN and soothed by by a tree.
And after that, we actually named the tree her calm down
tree and, you know, we ended up going to it several times when
she was upset. So I think trees can definitely
have can definitely help us in alot of ways of just, for mental
(21:05):
mental, wellness, and I know it in the forest bathing tradition,
that being around trees, can actually, I mean that it even
benefits, our physical health, Idefinitely feel that it does and
I've always been a tree hugger in that story about your
daughter is just beautiful because it's innately in us.
We find it doesn't surprise. I need that a child would say,
(21:27):
oh wow, this friend who is rooted in the ground?
Will give me some more right now.
What a beautiful thing. Another natural element that you
know, you were mentioning the night sky before and it makes me
think of this concept you mentioned in the book Moon gotta
moan got the idea. One gotta which is particularly
(21:49):
beautiful. There's all these words that we
do not have an English equivalent for.
Can you describe the word? Somos, en gotha, it literally
translates to Moon straights andit's just a word that describes
this reflection on water from typically, at full moon on a
(22:10):
clear night to go down to a lakeon a, on a full moon.
You'll see this Shimmer kind of at like this streak long streak
across the water and that's whatMom gotha is.
And here it's just one of those beautiful Beautiful words to
describe something that we like to observe in nature and we have
(22:31):
a lot of words like that. I have a long list of words that
we use for different types of locks as well.
And I think a country's language, I think it's a
reflection a lot of times of theculture.
So I'm not surprised that we have all these words to describe
different natural phenomena in in Sweden.
(22:53):
And and another one is I singing, which is another thing
that it's a sound. The sound that ice makes when it
contracts and expands. And it's the most beautiful
harrowing sound I've ever heard.And in the wintertime, one of my
favorite things to do is actually just to go down to the
(23:16):
lake here and sit there for a while and just listen to the ice
saying. It's very, it's very powerful.
It's quite quite amazing, it's just another one.
Those simple ways of connecting with nature that that I do on a
regular basis. There's something about having a
(23:36):
word for it. That is extraordinarily powerful
because as soon as you said thatabout the ice, I knew
immediately, I had a visceral reaction.
Yeah. How wonderful to have a word for
it so that you can make space for it in your world.
Absolutely. It's So important today.
(23:57):
I mean I feel like a lot of us feel like life is a little out
of whack today. And American society is very
competitive. A lot of people complain that
there's not enough balance between work life and family
life, for example, and there's alot of pressure and that
pressure trickles down to our children.
(24:18):
I think, I think feel asleep could really do a lot of good
here in that, it really. It allows us to just be I mean I
feel it myself every day when I when I go outside that's when I
can really just drop everything that has to do with work and I
can just allow myself to just bein the present moment because
(24:40):
that's that's what that's the only thing that nature asks of
me is that I'm actually present I think and I think for kids
today a lot of them I mean there's so much pressure even on
preschoolers to reach. Certain academic milestones and
there's this emphasis on gettinggetting everything done like
(25:03):
earlier and earlier for some reason instead of just letting
them be and I think Felix need can sort of help bring that back
into into balance. Well we have barely scratched
the surface of the content in this book which is filled with
such interesting and informativestories and recipes and And is
(25:25):
and truly serves as a how-to guide with everything that you
would need to know, to practice any level of free leads sleeve,
it's definitely pleasing to lookat to hold to live through and
to read cover to cover Linda. Do you set New Year's intentions
or have goals for this coming year?
Yeah, I usually do either like achallenge or some intention for
(25:50):
the new year and so usually I try to do something.
Thing that is sort of meaningfuland also something along the
lines of making our lives a little more sustainable for this
year, we're going to try and do the 1000 hours outside challenge
my daughters. And I I felt like we needed
(26:12):
maybe a little more motivation or that they needed maybe a
little more motivation. And so I told them about this
Challenge and they actually jumped on it.
So we're going to do that. Exciting.
Well, good luck with that. Thank you Linda.
It's been a real pleasure to speak with you today.
(26:32):
You are an inspiration and you're a leader who so
thoughtfully and gently is able to guide us from very young to
older and age to live, our best possible lives.
And to remind us, what is important spending time in the
outdoors? No matter the season, our
weather and sharing that experience with the ones, you
(26:52):
love just like this. 1,000 hours, challenge ahead of you.
So thank you for your work and for being with us today.
Thank you. I was my pleasure.
(27:16):
What a joy it was to speak with Linda.
Ultimately she teaches us that free loot sleeve is about
slowing down in nature. No.
Fancy equipment or distant travel is required.
No, specialized clothing and certainly no, motorized
vehicles, simply finding ways tobe outside at any age.
(27:37):
This is part of what I found Most Fascinating about the book
and my talk with Linda, despite my love of trees and going King,
I Am by no means an outdoor expert, but actually free loot
sleeve is inherently. Not competitive, it's not
supposed to be elite or filled with pressure, or even done with
(27:57):
speed. It's for everyone at every
stage, the images, in my head ofextremely athletic Trail
Runners, slowly melts away. As I read the book allowing me
to savor my own relationship with nature just as it is.
And just as As I am, it's important to note that for many
(28:17):
people going outside everyday. Simply is impossible for many
reasons, including disabilities or even safety.
I want to recognize my privilegethat I am able to do so, and
that I have access to beautiful spaces and feeling safe.
When I am there. This time of year is always
filled with resolutions and intentions, and it feels like we
(28:41):
are at a clean slate, a noob. Beginning sometimes these
intentions or resolutions can seem harsh and strict.
But what if they were more gentle?
And Linda's book. She speaks about how free Lutz
leave can exist in different forms in any situation.
(29:01):
She defines basic principles of open air life that are very
simple being one with nature using your body, keeping it
simple. I think that one really speaks
to me. What if this year for a clean
slate? We didn't have to work quite so
(29:22):
hard or Be so harsh. What if it was, just that simple
to take in a little bit of nature every day.
I think that sounds doable for me for 2023.
What do you think? Trees features?
How about for you? Thank you for joining tree
(29:45):
speech. Today, we'll have more
information about Linda okasan mcgurk, and her work in our
show, notes to learn more about our podcast and episodes.
Please visit tree speech, podcast.com we're thrilled to be
able to offer interviews, creative insights and stories
about the natural world we live in and the trees who guide our
(30:05):
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(30:27):
Every kind word helps.
Happy New Year. It's 2023.
And we are glad to be back today.
Feels especially celebratory as it marks our 30th episode and we
are so thankful to all our listeners and Newfound tree
Community. It has been our pleasure
creating this podcast and we look forward to many more
episodes. To come when we began the
(00:32):
podcast. We never could have dreamed of
the places that are connections to trees would take us.
And to the people, we would meetalong the way.
In today's episode, we'll talk with Swedish American Author,
Linda, okasan mcgurk, whose bookThe open-air Life, discover the
Nordic art of free Lutz league and embrace nature everyday,
(00:55):
shows us how to embody a free Loops leave Life by getting
outside and embracing Outdoors, no matter the time of year or
temperature, especially in thesedarker and colder.
January days. When it may be more appealing to
curl up inside Linda writes about the many ways being
outside strengthens our mental and physical health, builds
(01:17):
community, and nurtures a necessary relationship with
nature the passion for the open-air life, that she not only
advocates for, but also lives herself is hiring and I have a
new appreciation and drive to connect even deeper to Nature
around me as the famous Scandinavian.
(01:38):
Saying goes, there's no such thing as, bad weather, only bad
clothing. My name is Dori Robinson and
this is tree speech a podcast where we strive to listen to the
forest through the trees. This week's episode was written
and recorded in Massachusetts onthe native lands of the wabanaki
Confederacy. Penacook the massachusett and
(02:01):
Pawtucket people and in New Yorkon the lands of the Lenape
tribes as well as the sapne tribe of Sweden, tree speech is
co-written and produced by Jonathan Zellner with a light
theater Guild The Norwegian concept free Lutz leave means
open-air life or free are life or fresh air life.
(02:23):
The word was first published by the famous playwright Henrik
Ibsen and a poem in 1859, which reads in the lonely Cedar
Corner. My abundant catch, I take
there's a heart and a table and free Lutz leave for my thoughts.
Free Lutz leave far predates this poem and Has been in the
(02:45):
Norwegian Society for over 5,000years, the Norwegian government
defines this as embracing nature, and enjoying the
outdoors, as a way of life, a possibility of recreation
Rejuvenation and restoring balance, among other things, a
way of returning to our true home, where humans and nature
(03:05):
intersect and the value that is created in those meetings.
Linda okasan McGurk's previous book is a major centered
parenting Memoir. There's no such thing as bad
weather. A Scandinavian mom's secret for
raising healthy resilient and confident kids from free leads.
Leave to he gay and she and her books have been featured in
(03:27):
several leading. American magazines newspapers
and online sites, including the Wall Street Journal, the New
York Times Psychology today. Orion magazine tree hugger and
many more Linda lives in Sweden,but had spent 15 years in
Indiana where she sorely missed the relationship with land.
(03:48):
She had previously had in Swedenwith forests streams and
mountains, quite nearby. That's part of what is so
wonderful about. Free leads, leave it can happen
in one's backyard. All connection with nature is
valuable. This is the heart of Linda's
work to continue to find ways. Both big and small.
(04:10):
To be within our natural environments jumping in puddles,
digging, in dirt climbing, to the tops of mountains,
conducting business meetings, while on a walk or sleeping
outside under the stars, are allpossible ways to lead to an
open-air of Life. Speaking with Linda was an
absolute pleasure. So many of my own personal
(04:32):
values such as being outside communing with trees finding
ways. Both big and small to learn
about nature. Are what she speaks about and
lives every day. I hope you find our conversation
as enlightening as I did. Let's listen.
(04:58):
Hello Linda. How are you?
I'm great. Thank you for having me on.
Congratulations on this recent release of your new book, the
open-air life, we have loved reading it and we've been really
inspired by it. So thank you for taking the time
to speak with us about it today.Thank you so much.
I and that was the purpose of the book really to inspire.
(05:22):
So it makes my heart happy to hear that it's having the
intended results. Very much so.
And it's not a concept that is very prevalent in such a
thoughtful put together way. So could you describe for our
listeners? What the open-air life means to
you? Yeah, of course, open-air life.
(05:44):
So that's, that's sort of my translation, loose loose
translation of the, the Swedish word, three lifts, leave, and
that roughly translates to open air life and it ruined, Goes
back to to the 1850s. When people felt like, you know,
it industrialization and urbanization, we're sort of
(06:07):
starting to take their toll on people and they were sort of
seeking out the countryside and trying to reconnect with the
lifestyle that they used to have.
And so that's sort of very briefly the history of it, since
then, it's been just a lifestylehere in the Nordic countries
that I grew up with I think in The US were more used to
(06:30):
thinking of outdoor life in terms of outdoor recreation.
It's more sort of focused on activities and a lot of times,
maybe more sort of exhilarating or adrenaline-inducing
activities or hiking big month mountains or hunting fishing
(06:51):
writing ATVs and things like that.
But feel if Steve is a little different in that, it can
certainly involve hiking and Theclimbing big mountains, but it
really emphasizes sort of nearbynature and connecting with
nature in everyday life and whatever way you can.
And of course this is going to depend like how you do it.
(07:11):
It's going to depend on where you live and what kind of access
you have to Green spaces. So to me it's something that I,
like I said, I've grown up with it, I live in rural Sweden now.
So to me it's about being out there every day I have I have my
routines and rituals and nature.Like I go outside every day, I
(07:32):
have a walk that I that I go on and to do it every day,
regardless of the weather, whichis another sort of main idea
behind fetus. Leave is to to really try and
find something to love about every season and every type of
weather. So that's the short short
version. Wonderful answer.
(07:53):
Thank you. You incorporate.
Prelude sleeve into your life and into Your children's lives.
Can you tell us a bit more aboutthat incorporation and that
integration? Yeah, a lot of it is really
about finding ways of being active outside in your everyday
life, like for example, walking places or riding your bike
(08:16):
places instead of taking your car and granted I live in a
rural area so that's not always practical here.
But if I go to the city for example 2 Try and, you know,
maybe Park not, not drive like all the way to the door, but to
park a little ways away. And also do do some walking or
(08:38):
taking public transit because that way you also get that sort
of everyday movement in, I thinkit's important to sort of
rekindle that relationship with walking.
It's about embracing whatever you have nearby.
So it's just about, yeah, embracing what you have?
Embracing what you have in all four seasons.
(08:59):
Yes. And actually you enjoy doing
like my kids are older now. So when they were little of
course, then you know it's easy to to just go outside and play
but now they're 11 and 14. So it's a little bit of a bit
more about. They sometimes want more
challenges or to them is more important to have a goal or a
(09:20):
destination, but we we compromise and we usually we
have a good time. Feel if Steve is Of the main
actually main ways that we spendquality time together on the,
especially on the weekends, and it's a great even for a
teenagers, it's something that you can do all life which you
know I really want to emphasize that to you.
Start them young and it's something, you know unlike
(09:43):
boards for example which a lot of kids play when they're
younger. Maybe through high school,
possibly through college if you really good.
But after that, you know, let's face it.
A lot of people don't perceive Sue that those boards anymore,
but with the loose sleeve is something that you do build the
foundation in the in the early years and then it's something
(10:04):
you can do. If you're in good health, you
can do it in your golden years as well, for sure.
And it will help you stay in good health as well.
Very, very much so. I mean, that was one of the
things that really stuck out to us about the book is that you
have a chapter on how the outdoor is, play a part in
bringing joy and health through all seasons of life and I do
(10:26):
That there's a great emphasis onyounger, rather than older.
Yes. And we don't talk about that a
lot. Yeah.
And unfortunately, it was a lot of nursing homes and and
institutions like that. It is always hard to find the
time and staff to provide residents with experiences, like
(10:47):
that. But in in Sweden, sealer, Steve
is such a strong part of the tradition here that they really
tried to to provide The elderly with walks or being able to be
outside and do some gardening, you're seeing like greenhouses
and and they're out there grilling and they have all kinds
(11:09):
of kinds of fun outdoor activities for the elderly.
And if it's a good it's just a good idea all around.
It makes them happy but it also Studies have actually shown that
you know, by bringing in more. Yeah like gardening and time for
the elderly to be. Outside.
They need less medication and their symptoms of stress and
(11:31):
anxiety go down. So it's really a win-win.
I think for everybody involved, do you remember when he first
became acquainted with free Loops leave as as a concept or
was it always there? My grandparents took me to
Swedish Lapland which is the mountainous area, north of the
Arctic Circle. And so I think that's going like
(11:55):
going back. Back through memories.
That's probably the trip that has sort of meant the most to
me. But I don't know that it's
because of the memories that I have from that trip because I
was only three years old at the time.
But there were so many. There were pictures that we sort
of became, you know. We kept revisiting this trip, my
(12:17):
grandparents and I and I was very close to my grandparents
and I think it's because we knowthat not only spending time in
nature, When you spend it with, when you spend the time with
people, that you're close to that, you love that really
amplifies the experience and that makes you even more
attached to the place. What an extraordinary thing that
(12:40):
it's so multi-layer, that it's the memories of your
grandparents, it's the memories of the land, it's the memories
that come again and again through the photos.
That's, that's sort of how life is, is you experience something
once and then again and again, yes, motional.
A mentally. Yeah and eventually your
memories and the pictures and itall kind of Blends together and
(13:02):
you don't know exactly what what's memories and what's you
know what came from the slide shows in your grandparents
basement, but it doesn't really matter because the what matters
is that? You know, I have this place in
my heart I just love it. It like every time I come up
there and I see the same scenerythat I had in those that my
grandparents had in their pictures, like it gives me
(13:23):
goosebumps every time and gives me goosebumps just talking About
it. It's like it's that profound to
me and it's giving me Goose Bumps just hearing about it.
I mean those are the stories that really shape us.
Those are the stories of our souls and yes.
Become who we are. Yeah.
So it comes naturally to me to try and create those those
(13:45):
stories for my kids. That's been the main driving
Factor behind me trying to make sure that my kids to have this
sort of deeper. Ship with nature because that's
really what through the state isabout really feeling that nature
is home. It's not just an abstraction in
(14:07):
a textbook, it's a place the place where we came from and
it's a place where, where we at least should feel at home and
the more you practice view to see the more comfortable, you
will be because a lot of people today, unfortunately, as we've
been become alienated from nature over, Percent of us in
(14:27):
the developed world at least live in cities today, and we
spend so much time indoors and we're plugged into all our
devices, and there's just so much to gain from from sort of
digging into that evolutionary past of being out there.
That's something you emphasized in the book is, is that it's a
(14:49):
practice which is such an important point.
I mean, we, you know, the fact that we do Exotic, Sighs.
You know, national parks and we think of Nature and these things
as being far away and hard to touch.
And we forget that there is so much locally and there's so much
we can do locally and ways that we can be involved locally.
(15:11):
One story from your book that really hit me was the person who
wanted to sleep outside once a week, every week, every week for
a year and because of work he ended up doing.
So not necessarily far away but fine.
Being the Beauty and the open era life in within the city,
whether it was backyards or playground or yeah.
(15:34):
And I think that we think it is far away always and we miss,
what's beautiful right here? Yeah, I mean I've had some
amazing campus when my girls without leaving our Deck with
even you know, slept on our outdoor furniture sometimes and
just because there's been a starry night.
(15:56):
There was a night and just now in September, when my 14 year
old looked up at the night sky, we were sitting in our living
room and she said, mom, have youseen this guy tonight?
It's so beautiful. Just look out there.
Can we can we sleep outside? And at first, I just didn't feel
like it at all. Is like, you know, comfortably
(16:17):
Seated on the couch, you know, watching a show or whatever.
Not in the mood at all. But then I took a look at the of
the At the sky at night sky too.And I was like, you know, this
is really something it was so pretty.
It was just so many stars out and I just felt like, well, you
know, my 14 year old just asked me to sleep outside.
(16:40):
I can't like I can't deny her then, so I just pulled myself
together and we ended up sleeping on the, on our couches
on the deck that night and it was beautiful just to be able to
go to sleep and have that sort of as your backdrop drop that
alone, just it's moving and it'sall inspiring for sure.
(17:02):
Anytime, you look at the night sky, I think.
And I'm, I'm not, I'm not a typically like a religious
person, but I look at the night sky.
And I'm like, that's, it's so itmakes me very, very humble and
understanding that, I do not understand a lot of life's
mysteries. And so that's that's what my so
(17:25):
to me. Three, listen.
Is very much spiritual to, it's a way that I, even though, I
don't have like an affiliation with a church per se.
I like being out in nature because it, it makes me feel
part of. I mean, this sounds super cliche
but it's so true makes me feel part of something greater than
(17:48):
myself. You know, something that's been
there for eons before me and will still be there long after
I'm gone. And That's there's something.
There's something to that, that,that makes you humble very much.
So I think I mean nature is so full of Oz for us, it's very
(18:08):
much trees that are all inspiring.
That's that's what we go to, andthink of and treat you mentioned
that trees have a special standing with the open-air life.
Can you tell us about caring trees?
It's such a wonderful that goes back to the old.
Sort of agrarian society when trees were so special, they they
(18:32):
were seen as sort of the like a gathering place for a lot of the
sort of supernatural creatures that people believed in back
then. And so in the countryside,
people would often they would try to build their houses like
near a large tree because they you know, they felt Like that
(18:57):
way, they would be protected andif there wasn't a tree on the
land to begin with, they would usually plant a tree.
The idea being that if you took care of this tree and nurse,
stood and kept all the supernatural creatures happy.
Then they would look after you and and the farm animals as
(19:17):
well. So I have some ideas in my book
for how you can benefit from thepower of trees and one of them
is tree-hugging It was actually my sister who introduced me to
tree-hugging it. And at first, I thought it was
kind of. Yeah, it was.
It was I thought it was kind of silly at first but then I
started doing it. And I was like, I like this,
(19:37):
it's calming and soothing, and actually, I've noticed two, I
had an incident. When my youngest daughter when
she was little, I think she was about five P.
She often threw Tantrums when she was little.
I noticed that one point that trees seemed to calm her down.
And at one point, you know, She had a tantrum and we went
(19:58):
outside because it does seem like going outside.
Would diffuse the Tantrums as well?
And I walked away for a few minutes because I had to cool
off and I felt like she had to cool off.
And then I came back, I found her sitting at the at the roots
of this. I think it was a birch tree and
she had clasped her arms. She had wrapped wrapped her arms
(20:19):
around this tree and she was just kind of leaning into it.
And then I asked her what she was doing and she said, That I
found a friend while you were gone.
I was like, okay, well tell me more and she told me that she
felt safe around the tree and, yeah, like, I end up writing a
whole blog post about it becauseI was, it was a revelation to me
(20:41):
that that children like even young children, could actually
feel very calm DIN and soothed by by a tree.
And after that, we actually named the tree her calm down
tree and, you know, we ended up going to it several times when
she was upset. So I think trees can definitely
have can definitely help us in alot of ways of just, for mental
(21:05):
mental, wellness, and I know it in the forest bathing tradition,
that being around trees, can actually, I mean that it even
benefits, our physical health, Idefinitely feel that it does and
I've always been a tree hugger in that story about your
daughter is just beautiful because it's innately in us.
We find it doesn't surprise. I need that a child would say,
(21:27):
oh wow, this friend who is rooted in the ground?
Will give me some more right now.
What a beautiful thing. Another natural element that you
know, you were mentioning the night sky before and it makes me
think of this concept you mentioned in the book Moon gotta
moan got the idea. One gotta which is particularly
(21:49):
beautiful. There's all these words that we
do not have an English equivalent for.
Can you describe the word? Somos, en gotha, it literally
translates to Moon straights andit's just a word that describes
this reflection on water from typically, at full moon on a
(22:10):
clear night to go down to a lakeon a, on a full moon.
You'll see this Shimmer kind of at like this streak long streak
across the water and that's whatMom gotha is.
And here it's just one of those beautiful Beautiful words to
describe something that we like to observe in nature and we have
(22:31):
a lot of words like that. I have a long list of words that
we use for different types of locks as well.
And I think a country's language, I think it's a
reflection a lot of times of theculture.
So I'm not surprised that we have all these words to describe
different natural phenomena in in Sweden.
(22:53):
And and another one is I singing, which is another thing
that it's a sound. The sound that ice makes when it
contracts and expands. And it's the most beautiful
harrowing sound I've ever heard.And in the wintertime, one of my
favorite things to do is actually just to go down to the
(23:16):
lake here and sit there for a while and just listen to the ice
saying. It's very, it's very powerful.
It's quite quite amazing, it's just another one.
Those simple ways of connecting with nature that that I do on a
regular basis. There's something about having a
(23:36):
word for it. That is extraordinarily powerful
because as soon as you said thatabout the ice, I knew
immediately, I had a visceral reaction.
Yeah. How wonderful to have a word for
it so that you can make space for it in your world.
Absolutely. It's So important today.
(23:57):
I mean I feel like a lot of us feel like life is a little out
of whack today. And American society is very
competitive. A lot of people complain that
there's not enough balance between work life and family
life, for example, and there's alot of pressure and that
pressure trickles down to our children.
(24:18):
I think, I think feel asleep could really do a lot of good
here in that, it really. It allows us to just be I mean I
feel it myself every day when I when I go outside that's when I
can really just drop everything that has to do with work and I
can just allow myself to just bein the present moment because
(24:40):
that's that's what that's the only thing that nature asks of
me is that I'm actually present I think and I think for kids
today a lot of them I mean there's so much pressure even on
preschoolers to reach. Certain academic milestones and
there's this emphasis on gettinggetting everything done like
(25:03):
earlier and earlier for some reason instead of just letting
them be and I think Felix need can sort of help bring that back
into into balance. Well we have barely scratched
the surface of the content in this book which is filled with
such interesting and informativestories and recipes and And is
(25:25):
and truly serves as a how-to guide with everything that you
would need to know, to practice any level of free leads sleeve,
it's definitely pleasing to lookat to hold to live through and
to read cover to cover Linda. Do you set New Year's intentions
or have goals for this coming year?
Yeah, I usually do either like achallenge or some intention for
(25:50):
the new year and so usually I try to do something.
Thing that is sort of meaningfuland also something along the
lines of making our lives a little more sustainable for this
year, we're going to try and do the 1000 hours outside challenge
my daughters. And I I felt like we needed
(26:12):
maybe a little more motivation or that they needed maybe a
little more motivation. And so I told them about this
Challenge and they actually jumped on it.
So we're going to do that. Exciting.
Well, good luck with that. Thank you Linda.
It's been a real pleasure to speak with you today.
(26:32):
You are an inspiration and you're a leader who so
thoughtfully and gently is able to guide us from very young to
older and age to live, our best possible lives.
And to remind us, what is important spending time in the
outdoors? No matter the season, our
weather and sharing that experience with the ones, you
(26:52):
love just like this. 1,000 hours, challenge ahead of you.
So thank you for your work and for being with us today.
Thank you. I was my pleasure.
(27:16):
What a joy it was to speak with Linda.
Ultimately she teaches us that free loot sleeve is about
slowing down in nature. No.
Fancy equipment or distant travel is required.
No, specialized clothing and certainly no, motorized
vehicles, simply finding ways tobe outside at any age.
(27:37):
This is part of what I found Most Fascinating about the book
and my talk with Linda, despite my love of trees and going King,
I Am by no means an outdoor expert, but actually free loot
sleeve is inherently. Not competitive, it's not
supposed to be elite or filled with pressure, or even done with
(27:57):
speed. It's for everyone at every
stage, the images, in my head ofextremely athletic Trail
Runners, slowly melts away. As I read the book allowing me
to savor my own relationship with nature just as it is.
And just as As I am, it's important to note that for many
(28:17):
people going outside everyday. Simply is impossible for many
reasons, including disabilities or even safety.
I want to recognize my privilegethat I am able to do so, and
that I have access to beautiful spaces and feeling safe.
When I am there. This time of year is always
filled with resolutions and intentions, and it feels like we
(28:41):
are at a clean slate, a noob. Beginning sometimes these
intentions or resolutions can seem harsh and strict.
But what if they were more gentle?
And Linda's book. She speaks about how free Lutz
leave can exist in different forms in any situation.
(29:01):
She defines basic principles of open air life that are very
simple being one with nature using your body, keeping it
simple. I think that one really speaks
to me. What if this year for a clean
slate? We didn't have to work quite so
(29:22):
hard or Be so harsh. What if it was, just that simple
to take in a little bit of nature every day.
I think that sounds doable for me for 2023.
What do you think? Trees features?
How about for you? Thank you for joining tree
(29:45):
speech. Today, we'll have more
information about Linda okasan mcgurk, and her work in our
show, notes to learn more about our podcast and episodes.
Please visit tree speech, podcast.com we're thrilled to be
able to offer interviews, creative insights and stories
about the natural world we live in and the trees who guide our
(30:05):
way. Please also consider supporting
us through our patreon. Every contribution supports our
production and will be giving gifts of Grace.
Attitude, including an invitation to Treehouse our new
virtual community for patrons ofall levels.
Please also consider passing theword to tree-loving, folks, and
rate, and review us on Apple podcasts.
(30:27):
Every kind word helps.
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