Journey to Becoming a World Champion Triathlete: A Conversation on Explorative Mindset with Katie Zaferes

What does it take to go from a humble beginning to becoming a world's leading triathlete? Katie Zaferes, our guest for today, holds the answers. From her sunny family fun activity to her Olympic dream, Katie shares an inspiring journey filled with grit and determination. 

Brace yourself for a roller coaster ride as we discuss her crash in Tokyo and her amazing comeback to become a World Champion - all within two weeks! Her mental strategies including journalling, guided visualisations, and mantras play a pivotal role in her success. Get a firsthand account of her experience at the Tokyo Olympics and the anxiety she had to overcome. 

We also delve into how Katie balances motherhood with the challenges of a triathlon career. She shares her insights on goal setting, how she uses books like Mind Gym and Atomic Habits for mental preparation, and her tips for travel, including managing jet lag and making travel painless. Tune in to this enlightening conversation with Katie Zaferes and discover what it takes to be a leading triathlete!

www.triathlon.org/athletes/profile/katie_zaferes
Instagram: @kzaferes6

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Charlie Venning and I'm Claire Butch and this is
the Tribe Athlon podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Like other people might feel super stoked to go
into racing, and when people arelike, are you excited to race,
I'm like, not really like.
I like it once I'm doing it.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
That was Katie Zafires, and this episode is the
Explorative Mindset Embarkingon a journey from a humble
beginning to becoming one of theworld's leading triathletes.
Katie Zafires' story is one ofrelentless pursuit, dedication

(01:01):
and unmatched resilience.
Katie initially began herathletic journey as a runner.
However, her evolution into theworld of triathlon showcased
her versatility and her tenacity.
Katie is an Americanprofessional triathlete whose
impressive consistency saw herclimb from being ranked fifth in
the world in 2015 to finallytaking the top spot and winning

(01:24):
the 2019 world championships atthe La Sainte Grand Final.
Recovering from a major bikecrash in Tokyo Test Event to
take the take and the title In2021, katie was part of the USA
Mixed Railway Team that wonOlympic silver at Tokyo 2020

(01:45):
just days after winning her ownindividual bronze medal.
Claire and I really wanted tochat to her about how she uses a
different take and her versionof visualization and goal
setting to improve her results,how an explorative mindset can
drive success and why sportpsychology has played such a

(02:07):
massive role in her journey tothe top.
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Speaker 1 (04:04):
So, katie, welcome to the Tribe Athlon podcast.
Really looking forward tochatting to you.
I've been listening to some ofthe interviews that you've done
recently.
No, we're going to have loadsto talk about here, so really
looking forward to this.
So I always like to start theseepisodes to find out the story
behind getting into triathlon.
So for you, I think that thestory I'd love to hear about is

(04:25):
kind of that first triathlonexperience.
How did you find yourself doingthat first triathlon?
Tell us a little bit about howthat was.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
So the first triathlon experience I ever had
was with my dad.
It was a Father's Day triathlon, just a really local race
around in our community.
I'm one of three girls that hehad and so I was the chosen
daughter, I suppose, for thatrace at the time and I thought

(04:55):
it was just something that wewere doing together.
I swam in high school and Ialso ran in high school, so I
kind of had the swimming andrunning bit, but never put that
together in triathlon andtriathlon wasn't a thing for
like my family.
So I did it right aftergraduating high school with him.
It was like I said, it was justsomething we were doing for fun

(05:17):
.
I definitely didn't foreseewhat triathlon would bring to my
life or that I'd ever be ableto say that all the
accomplishments I've had intriathlon now.
But it was really fun.
And when I said, yes, I want todo the triathlon with you, my
dad had to learn how to swim.
So we were going to the pooland I was teaching him how to
swim.
But that was kind of like myinitial experience.

(05:37):
I remember I had like theslowest T1 because I was, I swam
in a bathing suit and then Iwas putting on my shorts,
putting on my shirt, putting onmy tennis shoes or my just my
running shoes.
So I had to tie them up becauseI had the cage pedals but I had
the fastest T2 because I waslike so much time in T1 to get

(05:58):
ready.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
And how did that first triathlon go?
What was your experience of itand why did it set you up to do
what you've ended up doing foryour career?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
My experience was really just having fun and I'm
not sure I can say that like,besides being introduced to
triathlon, I don't think Ireally would have picked that to
be like the part that initiatedeverything else.
I probably would have just kindof like kept doing that type of
triathlon or like more localraces, just like with my dad.

(06:34):
But the thing that got meserious into triathlon was USA
Triathlons CollegiateRecruitment Program and that
when I was in university I wasrunning Division I but I had
this background in swimming andmy times were like that's super
fast in swimming but they weresolid enough to kind of catch
their eye.
And so when I was, I did myfourth year of running but I

(06:57):
still had one more year ofeligibility because I had
redshirted, so I had still.
I had like my outdoor seasonfor a fifth year and within that
timeframe USA Triathlonrecruited me saying like hey,
like we see, we see what yourskill set is now and we think we
can teach you how to, how toride a bike.
And so it wasn't really untilthat that I would say like that

(07:18):
really set my, set me up forlike, oh, this is some well a
triathlons, olympics sport.
I didn't know that, like a fewyears earlier, I didn't really
know that it could be somethingthat I would do as a living, but
probably what the like SouthCarol race with my dad did was
just like.
I really enjoyed having thethree different disciplines.

(07:39):
As a swimmer and runner, Iwould always just kind of get
bored, especially with track andlike running around in circles
or swimming, just like staringat the line.
So triathlon really reallysuited me in the sense that it
just kept me on my toes and keptme, kept me entertained
throughout.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
And how was that going to that first Olympic
trials?
Or sorry, not the, the, the,the program that you just
described sorry, I've forgottenits name Collegiate recruitment
program, that's.
Thank you, how was that?
I know you had a long trek toget there, but tell me about
that experience of kind of likethe build up to it and that
first experience of being there.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Well, I've kind of fell into like, as I was getting
out of running division one,the collegiate recruitment
program was evolving so like atthe time that I was in college
it was really like bare bones.
They would kind of give you acoach to get you into triathlon,
but there wasn't much set upfor you beyond that.
But because of Gwen Jorgensenand she had been in the

(08:43):
collegiate recruitment programand she'd been coming up and
doing really well, they wereputting a lot more resources
into funding this program and sowhile I was getting into it, it
was starting to evolve intolike a bigger thing.
And by the time I like finishedwith college or university, I
was debating like okay, now whatdo I want to do?
I got my degree in physicaleducation.

(09:04):
Do I want to go teach?
I was applying to grad schoolsto go into like health education
as well and community health.
And then I had this option nowfrom the USA Triathlon to
basically come out to theOlympic Training Center and like
commit to there and really tryto give triathlon a fair chance

(09:25):
of me qualifying for theOlympics.
And you have to understand likefor me I didn't grow up wanting
to be an Olympian because Ialways was like what, do you
know how many people make theOlympics?
Like I was pretty big, like nota cynic, but like I just knew
it wasn't, like it was a risk togo into triathlon versus

(09:46):
physical education, to be ateacher, or like I couldn't
guarantee what my, what myoutcome was or what my future
would look like in that.
But I also knew that's anopportunity that you don't get a
lot of and that it would besilly not to say yes and take
the chance.
So I said yes, my dad agreed todrive with me out to Colorado
Springs from Maryland, which isabout a 24 hour drive and we are

(10:10):
not the type to just like goall in for the trip.
So we split it up into aboutfour days, I think.
Stopping along the way there'ssome bad weather, football games
we were he was wanting to watch, so and then, right about an
hour from getting into ColoradoSprings, I said dad, I don't
want to do this, let's go home.

(10:30):
Because I was scared and it was.
It was a lot of unknown to meand I mean just thinking about
the Olympics like, and Olympianslike that's that's pretty
daunting, or just yeah, it wasjust nerve wracking to say that

(10:50):
could be me or that that wassomething I wanted to do and my
dad and I'm been very lucky withmy parents are amazing and he
had told me.
He said well, katie, like, giveit a shot, stay the first like
week or so, and if you don'tlike it, then I'll fly back out.
We'll drive back home together.
Like it was a no risk typescenario because all I had to do

(11:11):
was give it a shot and if Ididn't like it, then we would
just do something different andpivot.
But I think by him saying thatit just freed me to try and with
no expectations from him, andlike it just opened up the doors
for me and I never ended upcalling him to come pick me up.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
I kind of guessed that bit at the end.
So what do you class as yourfirst big success?
What's your first big successin the sport?

Speaker 3 (11:45):
I would probably say my first World Cup win in
Palamos.
And it's funny because I hadjust gotten into the sport and I
think it was probably like mythird or fourth race, like I
hadn't done more than five racesas a professional by that point
, so I didn't really understandwhat that actually meant like of
winning a World Cup, being sofresh into the sport.

(12:07):
But now when I think about it,like I can look at that
achievement as probably like thefirst time where I was like, oh
quite did, quite well.
Also, my first two likeprofessional races and
continental cups.
They were a little advancedbecause Joel Filial, who is
actually now my coach, his squadwas training in Florida at that
time, so his whole squad wasgoing to Claremont and Sarasota

(12:31):
to race, which are typicallylike the lowest level of racing.
But you had, like Sarah Truethere, alicia Kay, like Hella
Friedrichson, paul, like allthese, like people who wouldn't
typically be racing that levelof racing.
So it was a.
It was a.
It was a good continental cupto start with, because I think
it just set my expectations ofwhat the level is of racing

(12:51):
really high.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
And did you like, because you had success so
quickly Did that sort of?
Was that a help for you from adevelopment point of view, or
was it in some ways a hindranceas well, because maybe you
thought you'd got somewhere thatyou hadn't quite.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
At that point it was really smooth for me that
transition, and I think part ofit was I was still learning the
sport, so I didn't even though Iwas achieving things and doing
well in my races, I still didn'thave quite the comprehension of
what that meant.
So it wasn't like I felt like Iwas crushing it at that time

(13:30):
because I knew there was stillhigher places to get and I had
like I hadn't actually achievedlike racing at the like World
Triathlon Championship Serieslevel or like going to the
Olympics at that point.
So for me I feel like I wasjust taking it step by step, as
just like I'm still trying tofigure out the sport.
So I didn't have any pressure.
I didn't or I didn't feelpressure at least at that point,

(13:53):
not not in the same way that Iwould in a few years Because it
was really just like kind offiguring out, like hey, like
what am I doing, what is this?
Like how do you draft on thebike, like how do you travel,
how?
Like?
It was just a lot of new thingsfor me.
So I was really centered inthat and I was really present, I

(14:14):
think because I just couldn'tbe looking forward, because I
didn't know what that lookedlike.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Brilliant, and I'd love you to tell me.
There's two stories that reallystood out for me when I was
listening to you speak.
The first was the contrastbetween having a crash in I
think it was Tokyo and then, twoweeks later, becoming World
Champion.
So that to me stood out as anincredible turnaround from

(14:42):
disappointment to success.
Tell us about that story first.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah, so I had one of my best years in 2019.
I was winning multiple races.
I've been on the podiumconsistently for years before
that and kind of like climbingmy way up in the World Traff on
series ranking, but I hadn't wonconsistently.
And so 2019, I was winningconsistently, feeling really
good, going into the Tokyo testevent, which was in August of

(15:09):
2019.
Prior to the Olympics beingpushed back a year, and in the
race I like pretty early on inthe bike I believe I ended up
crashing and it was a reallysilly crash, like I was going
straight.
I never like I thought I wouldcrash going straight, but I did
into a barrier and I ended upgetting like 23 stitches in my

(15:32):
mouth, having a pretty bigimpact to, like my arm and my
leg, and not finishing the race,ending up in the hospital
instead, and I was pretty likethere was a lot of feelings at
that point because I remember,like being in the ambulance
trying to like hear how theAmericans did, to know how many
Americans qualified for theOlympics in that race, and then

(15:56):
also like, regardless of theOlympics and who was going to be
selected, there was also theWorld Championship that I'd set
myself up really well before theTokyo test event to claim at
the end of the year.
And so when I'm in it I waslike, oh shoot, did I just like
ruin my chance of going to theOlympics and ruin my chance of
like being World Champion?

(16:17):
And so I like was mostly fine.
Besides, like my mouth and myand I broke my nose, but like I
was mostly fine and I also havelearned, unfortunately because I
crashed other times with myface as well, but the face heals
very quickly.
But at the same time what itdid was it hit my confidence

(16:41):
that I'd kind of grown to haveon the bike with my, my skills
and being confident and goinginto Lausanne, which is was the
grand final.
It was only a couple of weekslater.
It was a pretty technicalcourse and I remember talking to
my sports psychologist beforeit and just like trying to
physically recover at the sametime I'm trying to mentally
recover from from the Tokyo testevent crash.

(17:04):
And I was talking to her andshe's like, well, maybe your
goal is just to get around thecourse safely.
I'm like I've never had that asa goal, like leave.
Like prior to the race, I meanlike now you're like, well,
that's a pretty good goal.
But like that wasn't what I wasthinking.
And so my mantra became, insteadof thinking about all the

(17:26):
deficits and all like where mybrain was that with not feeling
confident.
I decided to kind of switchthat and said, ok, like well, if
I need to be more conservativegoing into the corner, I'm
strong enough to make it up onthe flats, or I'm strong enough
to do it on the hills.
So it's taking places where Iwasn't feeling super confident
and maybe second guessing myselfand turning it into like well,

(17:48):
I'm still like powerful, I can,I can handle these challenges, I
suppose.
And so when I actually got onthis start line for Lizanne,
like I did like my normal,luckily my body healed itself
like enough to like feel mostlygood.
Still had like a lot of nerves,but recognize that like that's

(18:09):
OK, like hey, I'm always nervousbefore races, so a little extra
nerves is fine.
And then just like having theconfidence that I put in the
work, that I was ready and Joelalso my coach, like I'm
surrounded by an amazing groupof people.
So I think that should alsohelp because Joel, who obviously
knew I was I had been doingreally well in the races prior

(18:33):
to this.
He like never put the pressureon me to be like you need to
like.
It was basically to like let'ssee what we can do, let's see
what position we can put you ingoing into Lizanne.
But it was never like outcomebased, it was always just come
back to your process, come backto your process and that's what
I did.
And in the race, like, yeah, Ihad a, had a really good race, I

(18:56):
had to finish, I think,fourteenth to claim the world
championship, but instead Iended up winning it, which is
probably like.
I mean, tokyo was amazing,because winning medals is really
cool, but Lizanne is probablyone of the best well like
feelings I've had.
Also, my dad and my mom and myhusband were all there for that

(19:19):
and I was just really neat to,like you said, be able to bounce
back after something that Ithought could affect my
champions, of becoming a worldchampion.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I think go on Claire.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
It was really interesting to hear about and we
often talk about sort ofpsychology behind the athlete
and going into races.
Just from what you've described, do you think that you're
working with a sportspsychologist but also developing
your own psychology, since thatcrash has that kind of
developed over time?
So do you have a kind of a wayof thinking or a strategy going

(19:57):
into races now that's maybedeveloped over time or from
events like the crash forexample?

Speaker 3 (20:05):
For sure.
So, like before, basically Rioin 2016, well, in high school
and college, I never worked onmy mental side of things.
I actually probably went theopposite direction and saw it as
like a weakness if I needed towork on it, which probably told
me that, like now, looking back,I'm like well, that probably
means I should have worked on itthen and then, like, going into

(20:27):
Rio, like I saw the value in it, but I don't think I really
knew what place it had in mytraining.
So I would, I would use likesports psychology and talk to
support psychologists morereactively.
So it would be like if I waslike freaking out or getting
really nervous about the race,I'd be like oh, I want to talk
to someone, like and thatchanged after Rio A lot of.

(20:48):
I feel like I took Rio and Ireally reflected on it in a lot
of ways and it was like a bigcatalyst for my like how my
career developed after that.
But one part of that was Irealized I wanted to talk to a
sports psychologist moreregularly and I wanted to speak
to a sports psychologist that Ifelt was a good fit for me not
necessarily the one, the firstone who was kind of like

(21:11):
presented to me or like saidlike oh, this person can talk to
you.
I actually sent an email to theUSO PC like mental health
services, and I said like hi,like I'm Katie and these are
what I consider my strengths andweaknesses, like who do you
think would be a good fit for me?
And that was that was a bigpart of.
I talked to Karen Kogan and I'vebeen talking to her since Rio

(21:35):
and we basically talked to her,probably not so much during the
off season but during the racingseason, probably like twice,
twice a month or so, and she'salways there for me, like if I
need anything more.
So, for instance, after thecrash, I think I talked to her a
little bit more between the tworaces, and so I feel like the I

(21:58):
just think now how much themental side of things really
separates the athletes in whatthey're capable of doing.
And I feel like the other thingI've learned is like I had
ideas about the different skillsinvolved with different mental
strategies, but I had this ideaof how they were supposed to be
done.
Like visualization, I was like,oh, you visualize for swimming

(22:20):
and you need to visualize likeyour whole race, like down, to
like the second.
You touch the wall, whichprobably is amazing and some
people do.
But for me, like I actually havemy sports psychologists do
guided visualizations, or Iwrite out, because I really like
to write and have like ajournal and do handwritten
things, and so I'll likeactually write out my race

(22:42):
before it happens, and it'spretty incredible to me to like
now look back on those Like Ithink I wrote out LaZan and like
my Tokyo race, and to havethose to look back on now and it
just helps me be really clearabout what that process is.
It's never like I want to belike first place, like that's
not.
That's not what I'm thinkingabout.

(23:04):
It's more thinking about likeeverything, everything else.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
And do you find yourself sort of going back to
that in races.
So can you easily kind oftransport yourself there in
terms of thinking about thatprocess when you're racing.
So if things aren't going quiteas you were imagining, are you
able to kind of go back thereand sort of think your way
through it.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, I feel like I have enough strategies now that
I can.
So, like the main strategies Iwould say I use are, like
visualization before the race,segmenting during the race,
mantras during the race andprobably a whole bunch of others
.
But I read a book I'd let yourmind run by Dina Kasser and I'd
recommend it to everybody,because something she says and

(23:47):
that really resonated with mewas you have like a toolbox.
It's not necessarily like onestrategy that works for you all
the time, but it's a toolbox ofmental strategies and you're
just shifting through and onemay help you for like half a
second and but like another onemight be able to help you for a
couple of minutes.
But it's being able to have arobust toolbox so that, as like

(24:10):
things happen, you can rely onthat to pull out what you need
and kind of channel through eachof them.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, it is absolutely, really important and
I really wanted to chat to youabout this whole visualization
concept.
So I love the idea ofjournaling visualization.
I think that I've not heardanybody doing it that way before
, you know if for a race.
So I love that and I think Ican see why that would work
really really well.
So I'm definitely going to takethat away.

(24:40):
But how do you also sit thereand kind of mentally kind of
visualize the race in advance ofit?
And if you do, kind of, what'sthat process look like?

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, so when I do it mentally, when I'm doing my
visualization, it's as long as Ican like do that and not be
distracted and like have likeclear visual thoughts.
So I'll go to writing when Ican't, when I'm having trouble
focusing and when I need to likeI'm like just closing my eyes

(25:14):
isn't working, like I'll startwriting it, just so I it's clear
I'm doing it.
I'm going through like thosemotions and then and then also
the guided visualizations whereI'll talk to my sports.
Second, I'll tell her likethese are my key things that I
want to do, and then she'll giveme like so I can put in my
headphones and listen to herkind of talk me through a race

(25:34):
and I'll fill in the gaps withit.
So those are the three, I wouldsay, styles of visualization I
use and it starts from when IWell, it can start before I even
get to the race, but it startsspecifically like getting to the
venue, like being able to likesee what it looks like.
I mean, a lot of our venues wego to multiple times, so, like

(25:57):
the more I've been to the races,sometimes I can piece together
that part of the visualizationbetter than other races that I
haven't been to Like how I feelseen.
I'll visualize like how I feelseen competitors and how I like
the nerves I have before therace or how my warm up goes,
because actually that's likeprobably like setting the tone

(26:20):
for the race, is like all thoseinitial feelings before you even
get to the start line and likeif you can kind of like feel
them or be aware of them, thenthat makes me feel better come
race day because I'm like well,I already like knew this was
going to feel this way, so itstill feels uncomfortable, but
it's not a surprise and it's notlike saying anything negative

(26:43):
about my preparation.
It's just kind of like this is,this is how it is for me.
Like other people might feelsuper stoked to go into racing
and when people are like are youexcited to race?
And like Not really, like I likeit once I'm doing it and then.
So then visualizing like kind ofmy key things that I want to do
, so a lot of that's likegetting out fast in the in the

(27:05):
first part of the swim and kindof like moving out forward,
focus on the first buoy andbeing okay with like contact,
like making contact with otherpeople in the water and just
like then visualizing coming outof the water and going into
transition, like really goingthrough, like goggles and cap in
the box, like helmet on, likego like grab the bike and go,

(27:27):
and I think between also thatit's like being rehearsed so
many different times in my headand also having like clear, like
language of like specificallyfor transition, when you're like
goggles and cap and box helmeton, grab the bike and go, like
it makes it a lot more, a lotless distracting, or like feel

(27:49):
like you have to be doing a lotmore.
And then, yeah, going throughthe bike and, depending on my
visualizations, I would say theycan take anywhere from like
five minutes to like 15 or 20minutes and and, yeah, just kind
of keep going through the wholerace in that way.
And then, when I finish therace, usually like take the
moment to like re, re, likereiterate, like oh, you just

(28:13):
finished the race, you gave ityour all, like I.
And then go through again likeI had a good swim where I like
got out fast and like kind ofbreak down those key components
as I cross the finish line,saying what I did well and like
kind of like an open, gratefulheart of like being there with
like Tommy and Kimball and likemy family and teammates and

(28:36):
coach and everything, and thenyeah, and then it's done.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's great to hear the way that you kind of talk
through it and I you know, I youknow the fact that you kind of
get get to the end and then yougo through the positives about
it as well and not actuallyvisualizing necessarily getting
to the end of the race andwinning or being, you know,
being on the podium, but it's,yeah, it's really good to hear
how, how you do and actually howoften you're doing it as well.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
It made me think, and I can't remember where I've
heard this recently, but it wasin a business context rather
than a sporting context and itwas around people particularly
like the example I think waspublic speaking.
So you know, you clearly knowthat you're going to get nervous
before a race, because you kindof document that so that when
you then feel nervous it's not asurprise.

(29:25):
Do you also ever try and kindof basically try and tell
yourself you know, I know, thosenerves are actually part of the
excitement of getting to race.
Do you try and kind of reaffirmthose feelings into other
feelings that are good ones asopposed to perhaps negative ones
?

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, the most common one I do is nerves mean I'm
ready, nerves mean I care, andso that that's kind of what I
put put with it.
And actually now it's almostlike if I'm not nervous, and I
get nervous Because I'm so usedto having that- Brilliant, okay,
fantastic.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
And the second story which you've kind of just
touched on skirtingly, is thecontrast, I think, between your
performance in Rio and yourperformance in Tokyo.
So perhaps you can tell us alittle bit about how you know.
You've kind of you've told usabout how Rio didn't go
according to plan and how sportpsychology helped you as a

(30:24):
result of that.
But how did then tell us aboutTokyo?
But maybe with with thecontrast of Rio, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
So in Rio I would say like I was just coming off like
a really great.
I won my first World Trial onseries event.
Like the race, before going toRio I was like had been on
multiple podiums consistently soI would have considered myself
like a podium contender for forthe Rio Olympics.

(30:55):
But going into the race andwe'd done the Rio Test event, so
I kind of knew it.
But I still didn't feel likesuper comfortable because
everyone was talking about thisdeep uphill on the bike which I
didn't have a problem with, butthe thing that got me was the
downhill on the other side andit just made me super anxious.
I didn't feel confident with itand really my mind was just

(31:18):
revolving around that downhillwhich was probably like I mean,
I think it was a 10 lap bike andit probably was less than five
minutes total of the like twohour race.
So but that's what kind of what.
I was stuck on and just nervousand I was like at the Olympics,
but I was really focused on therace and I didn't want to think
about the excitement of theOlympics because I wanted it to

(31:41):
be like race oriented and justlike.
So I was just really kind ofall visioned, I think, towards
my actual race.
And then I did the race and Ifinished like I mean, I did okay
on the bike, I stayed with thegroup, the main group but then
when I got to the run I didn'tlike do anything.

(32:01):
I had a pretty bad run and Ithink part of that is I just
like I was so focused on mydeficits on the hill and like
not feeling confident on thatthat I didn't even think about
the run and the run felt longand hard to.
And then I finished and I wasdisappointed with myself, with
with the race and then alsobecause we were the second to

(32:23):
last day of the Olympics and Iwas basically over and I just
kind of missed it.
And I was.
We went to the closingceremonies and that was really
cool but I just felt like Ididn't take in the Olympics as I
would have wanted to and likewhen you think of people
thinking of the Olympics and howI think of the Olympics, like

(32:45):
it's an amazing experience andit's something that you really
should like really lean intothat, the fact that you get to
have this experience.
But I just kind of like missedit.
And so afterwards I was kind of.
There was like a lot ofreflections, like I said, and a
few of them were talking to asports psychologist having like

(33:05):
a nutritionist more moreregularly, speaking like doing,
doing strength, finding astrength person to also do more
consistently, putting in likebike skills more intentionally.
We would, we would do bikeskills, but not in like the same
way as a race and and thosewere like a few things.

(33:26):
And then obviously, with thesports psychologist working on
the mental side of things.
But the other part of it was,if I ever get the opportunity to
go to another Olympics which Idefinitely did not take for
granted that that was going tobe something that I would get to
experience again then I want toexperience it and I want to
take in the whole atmosphere ofthe Olympics and what it means
to be there, no matter what myresult is, because the result

(33:51):
isn't going to last that longlike, but having the feelings of
everything else really, and sofor me, going into Tokyo a lot
of people like there's a lot ofnegative pieces around it with
COVID and how the isolation nofans, no family which definitely
was impactful to the wholeatmosphere, but at the same time

(34:12):
that took before I did well atmy race.
Like I love that we got to bein the Olympic Village.
I love that we got to becauseour other in Rio.
We were about an hour and ahalf or so from from the village
, so we stayed at our venueinstead for up leading into the
race.
But I love that we have to bearound that.
I loved like being with the USAteam and I felt like we had

(34:33):
such good camaraderie in Tokyoand like supportive one another
and just like really like beingwith the moment.
And especially because my leadup into the Tokyo Olympics was
really bad, like my dad passedaway in April of 2021 and the

(34:54):
Olympics was in July of 2021 andI got selected by discretion in
June.
So like there wasn't a lead inthat you would, you would want
or like you always want to makeit as early as possible and so
to come away from Tokyo like a Ifelt like I just pulled from

(35:15):
all my experiences, from likethe like how many years of doing
I guess like eight years ofdoing triathlon professionally
where, within the race, like Iwas like I've raced races in the
rain.
I felt like I was adaptablebecause I've done this race like
be ready, like don't get toofar ahead of yourself, because
you come off the bike in a goodposition, like you really need

(35:37):
to like keep that position forthe run and so like I think that
was the coolest thing.
Finishing the video was I justfelt like I did everything right
.
I felt like I was so gratefulfor being at another Olympics
and having to get like reallycool experiences and taking it
all in.
And then I thought on the racecourse I just like use

(36:00):
everything I'd learned and Isaid I was probably like the
happiest bronze medalist thereever was.
And I still feel that way and Idon't know if that would have
been different another year,like if 2019, because I felt
like I was in a better place,probably physically and like my
performances.
So I think Tokyo was special inthat way was it was under

(36:25):
pretty unsavory circumstancesand still being able to race
like myself?

Speaker 1 (36:30):
And how did the two medals compare to you?
How did the two kind of,because obviously you got the
team, the team relay as well howdid they to both compare?
How do you compare them in yourmind?

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Oh, it's so hard because they're very special in
very different ways.
The bronze medal individual is,I think, just I was so proud of
myself for like being able toput that together when, like, my
lead in was really not greatand I mean not, and that wasn't

(37:03):
physically like training,training, bounce back, that like
probably like a month and ahalf, like leading into the
Olympics.
I was having really solidsessions, but the year
definitely wasn't, believe like2021.
Leading into the Olympicsdefinitely wasn't very good.
So I and I had two of my worstraces right after the Olympics

(37:26):
probably of my career, and swimsespecially so like going into
Tokyo, I was like had to managethe nerves I had around the swim
because I'd had such terribleswims and both Yokohama and
leads, which were the two racesthat led into the Olympics.
So basically it was my mantragoing into the Olympics was I

(37:49):
know how to do this.
Like and just like remindmyself that I know what I'm
doing and I can do it well.
And like, when we drove in forTokyo for the start of the
individual race, I had beenpracticing the stars with like
like just layer month andGeorgia Taylor Brown and summer

(38:09):
rap before and when, when we gotinto the race, like it was such
a smooth, clear start andsurely there's like this other
pack to the left of us, likethere must be more people coming
, and I like read to the leftand it was clear and I was like,
oh my gosh, like how am I likethird, like third, like it was
just maybe some I don't actuallyknow who's in front of me and

(38:32):
then I was the third person andso I think like, yeah it, I feel
like the individual race it wasjust I was most proud of that.
But then also for the mixed teamrelay, it was amazing to do
that and be part of history inthe sense that it never was an

(38:54):
like hadn't been in the Olympicsbefore then and with a team for
USA Triathlon that I don'tthink anyone would have put
together.
If the Olympics would havehappened as it should have in
2020, I don't think that anyonewould have expected our team to
be the team and I was so proudof each of us because we'd all
gone through our own things andwere able to.

(39:19):
It was just a resilient team, Ithink as well, so they are both
equally special and I'm notgoing to choose which one.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
What about Paris next ?

Speaker 3 (39:35):
We're trying for it.
I never thought I was going tocome back after starting a
family, but I also really likemy job and I was like well,
we're going to see how it goes.
And I think one of the thingsI've realized is, if something's
not working, you can alwayspivot.
And I mean not working in thesense like if it's not the right
balance for, like me and myfamily.

(39:56):
But so far we've done like fiveraces, I think, and Kimball's
gone to all of them and my momor a friend has traveled with us
.
Tommy's been there as well, buthe works at the races, so we
always have to bring an extrasupport person and it's been
amazing and I reflect on it,thinking like wow, I can't
imagine if we would have justnot had like, not done this, how

(40:20):
much we would be missing out on, because it's pretty special
just having like specificallylike Kimball, experience it
where I know he's.
He's only 11 months old, so Idon't know how much of it he'll
remember.
But, like, some of my favoritethings is basically at every
race we've gone to, it's likethe staff at the hotel or like
breakfast or a cafe, and theyare smitten with Kimball and

(40:44):
take him like they'll just pickhim up, take him away, talk to
him in Spanish or Italian orwhatever language and like it's,
my favorite thing is justseeing him meet new people and
really like experience othercultures and also be a part of
my triathlon community and meet,like my friends, my coaches, my
competitors all like all thestaff there, all the officials,

(41:08):
like basically everyone.
Was World Triathlon and I justthink that's so special because
triathlon has shaped me and beenthere for me in the best times
and the worst times, and I'd besad if Kimball missed out on it.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Brilliant, and we've heard a few people on this
podcast talk about baby EPO.
I think it gets termed as haveyou seen any, any performance
difference coming back sincehaving Kimball?

Speaker 3 (41:38):
I know.
I mean, I don't think so Iwould.
I would say it is much harderand I don't feel like a
superwoman and my trainingwouldn't show that I'm a
superwoman.
It's a lot more challenging,like logistically, and I think

(42:00):
there's something to be like.
I think, like when people talkabout like mom power, like I for
sure think that there'ssomething to that, but it's
mainly because you're just, Ifeel like you just have to be a
lot stronger to be able tobalance, like having a kid
traveling and racing andtraining and being able to do

(42:21):
like all of that well.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
You think?
Going back to the sportspsychology, do you think it also
impacts your why?

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Probably.
Yeah, I think I go into.
Well, I think there's a couplereasons for that, one of them
being I never really expected tocome back, and I also, like I
guess I'm back to kind of when Ifirst started track on in
mentality of like, well, excuseme, like this is a very big
challenge and this is a reallynew lifestyle and a new process

(42:51):
for me.
And I don't quite know what I'mdoing like on a day to day basis
with Kimball, like we'relearning as we go with figuring
out that balance, and so I thinkit really makes you have to be
present in it.
And the other part of that iswhen you finish, like you're

(43:13):
saying, like, no matter how Ifeel about my race, kimball's
there, like smiling at me withmy mom, who like, or, like I
said, a friend or any likesupport person who comes with us
, and it just I feel like I'vekind of learned over the years
to go into racing and trainingand all these experiences with a

(43:35):
lot of gratitude, but like evenmore so now, like the fact that
we get to do this with him butalso the people that make it
possible to do it with him,because if it was just me and
Tommy, there's absolutely no waylike we would be able to keep
doing this and keep doing it ata high level, but luckily we

(43:58):
have, like, a lot of amazingpeople in our life and I think
that's what keeps it intoperspective for me.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
How do you just think about?
You were talking about likewell, I was about to say work
life balance, and it is a worklife balance For lots of
athletes, like particularlytriathletes that are trying to
kind of train, have a familylife.
They come home from work,they're cooking, trying to cook
for their children and family.
How does all that work?
I appreciate he's only 11months old, but how does that

(44:26):
work at home on a day to daybasis in terms of fitting in
your training between the two ofyou looking after a child,
getting food?
So from my background, I'malways interested to know how do
people fit in making meals,making sure they're kind of
eating around, family andtraining life?

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Well, we have help on all of it.
So, like one of the things withUSA Triathlon is that they have
given us a lot of support thatwe can use kind of as needed.
But one of those things thatI've kind of figured out with
Kimball is trying to figure outwhere I need to manage my energy
and what I would need supporton and what I can do well myself

(45:08):
and balance.
So like I think the biggest hitlike we take as like parents or
like athletes, it's basicallythe recovery, like I don't
recover because that part isthere's no time when I'm like
either like I'm either engagedin training or I'm engaged with

(45:28):
Kimball and like there's notthat much time to actually
recover.
So I feel like that's like thebiggest hit.
But for nutrition, I actually.
So I was talking to a dietitianearlier this year when I
realized like I need some help.
I'm not making good choices,I'm tired and can you help me
with meal planning.
And so she did.

(45:50):
She did a great job.
She gave me like all the plan,the grocery list.
All of the meals were supereasy and not very time consuming
to make, but I was still likejust not doing them and just
like going back.
And so she's like, would ithelp if I like brought the meals
over to you at the beginning ofthe week and like they were
already, like all you had to dowas put them in a pan, basically

(46:13):
, and you'd have them in yourfreezer so they'd be ready?
I'm like, oh yeah, like thatwould probably help, but like so
that was something that thatwas a huge factor and, like you
said, just because nutrition, Ido think, is so big into
performance and like I don'tfollow any strict diet but at

(46:35):
the same time, I want to makesure that I'm eating good food
like majority of the time, andso that's been super helpful and
she's been doing that.
We also have a babysitter come,like basically six out of seven
days and it'll be for like fourhours from on average, and

(46:56):
that'll allow, like me to gotrain Tommy to be on his work
call or Tommy to train with me,like on the weekends.
We just started having someonecome in so that he can run,
tommy can run with me and bikewith me, and so that took a lot
of time to figure out, like whatwe need, and I think I felt

(47:17):
some of that mom guilt of likebringing in a babysitter for
like the week, especially likeon a weekend, just because I
feel like it's likeunconventional to like have your
like, have your kid be likewatched by someone.
But also because, like Tommyand I in theory could figure it
out, we're like we wouldn'tnecessarily need childcare,

(47:42):
based off like we could adaptour schedules to make it work
that one of us was watching it.
But we realized we like neededthe needed the help.
And we still get to do a lotwith Kimball, like in the sense
of well in general, but like Iwas thinking more of training,
like Tommy will like run out tome with Kimball and the well I

(48:03):
want to say stroller, but youguys don't call it in the buggy.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
We know what you mean .

Speaker 3 (48:10):
And so, like for my long run the other day I did, I
ran from the house and starteddoing my workout and then Tommy
drives out with Kimball to aparking spot and they because we
can run from my house, from ourhouse, all on greenways to
another trail.
They come the oppositedirection on the trail and then
to the greenway and so we dothat probably like at least

(48:34):
three times a week and it'sreally nice because it, like I
just said, like a lot ofdifferent ways.
But I love destination runs, Ilove having company and I love
Kimball getting out and I lovedoing it with my family.
So like it's just like we weredefinitely figuring things out.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Like formulating new, new routines and new habits.
Isn't it Just having to change?
Having to change things?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Yeah, and also like for racing.
It was really different for mebecause I'm like someone who
really shuts down race week,where I really just like doing
my own thing.
I don't, I don't really like toconform to anyone else's
schedule and I just like quiettime and just to like chill.
And that's obviously nothappening with an 11.

(49:21):
Like, at least not with our 11month old.
He's quite busy, he's walkingaround and, well, basically
running, he likes chase.
So now it's like all leadinginto the race, like it'll just
be like a normal balance upuntil basically like the
Thursday and Friday before,where, like I started to learn
how to better communicate whatmy needs are, where I'm just

(49:43):
like, okay, can you have Kimballfrom like nine to 12, and just
like I'm going to go train andI'm going to just have some like
time to myself and then likewe'll come back to the pool or
something.
And then like the same thing,like the day, like normally the
day before the race, my mom will, or whoever it is, will be like

(50:03):
on like pretty much fullKimball duty on the day before
the race and race morning.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
The wonderful thing and challenging thing about
children is the minor quite alot older than yours is that
just when you think you've gotthat schedule and routine sussed
, it then changes again.
It's like it's an ever movingtarget.
But when they're at this stageit's lovely that there's you've

(50:31):
got that flexibility having you.
One of the things that I'veheard you reference a few times
when I've been listening toother interviews is you
mentioned goal setting quite alot.
So I'm a massive fan of settinggoals and not just having
systems to set goals, butobviously systems to achieve
them as well.
Tell me a little bit about whyyou see goal setting as

(50:55):
important and also how you goabout goal setting.
Is there any structural systemor you know?
Tell me what it means to you.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
So goal setting to me means the process of the race
or training.
I tend to, I guess, do it alittle bit more concretely with
races where I'll have, and Iguess it's definitely goal
setting.
Okay, I was questioning whetherit was goal setting or not, but
we're all like right out about 8to 10 specific things within

(51:28):
the race that I would like toachieve or I would like to do.
Well, and my relationship withgoal setting is, I think it just
makes it really clear what myintent is in the race and also,
so, like a lot of the times forme it will have to do with, like
I said, like getting out fastto the first movie, like having
urgent transitions, like workingon my gearing in and out of

(51:54):
cornering or positioning, likecoming into T2 and like with our
type of racing, especially whentheir goals on the bikes we
have about 8 to 10 laps in anOlympic distance race, and so
being aware that I may not crushit every single corner, but

(52:15):
having those goals in my headeach time and this kind of is a
little out of what you asked me,but I think what I learned also
with racing is it's kind oflike I do much better with a see
what I can do mindset than likeI need to do this and using
racing as like practice more sothan a test.

(52:38):
I feel like my relationshipwith racing prior to a few years
ago was like a pass fail, likeif I don't do well at the end of
the race, then that was like afailed race or that that was
that was bad, or like, and walkaway really, really disappointed
.
And I can still be disappointedafter a race that doesn't go

(52:59):
like as well or that I don't dowhat I would like to do.
But I think I have a lot morehealthy of a relationship with
racing now where I don't feellike it's a reflection of my
worth.
I don't feel like it's areflection of my even my
capabilities.
I feel like it's just like agood example or a good way to

(53:21):
see where I'm at and what I needto improve on.
And the other great thing abouttriathlon that I love is there's
always something you canreflect on within your races
that went well and there'salways things that you can
reflect on that you need to workon.
And so I feel like, with mygoal setting, it's trying to hit
those eight to 10 things withinthe race and then also be able

(53:42):
to finish the race and reflecton like okay, like what, what?
Well, what do we need to workon?
What was this race specifically?
And what is like?
Do we need to change the wholesystem?
Like, because I feel likesometimes you can be really
reactive after a race and Idon't always think that's
healthy where it's just like onerace where you didn't do
something super well.

(54:03):
So it's kind of like, should wechange anything in training or
do we just need to wait till,like, things just go better
another day?
Slash, you consume like all the, all the training and all the
effort that you're putting in.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Brilliant, and I think that kind of it reminds me
of a quote and I might be aTony Robbins quote, but it's
essentially there's goodexperiences and learning
experiences, which isessentially what you're saying,
isn't it?
It's not just about the outcome, it's about learning from the
ones that didn't go quiteaccording to plan.
Is all of your goal settingshort because that was all very
race like?
My goals for this specific raceis quite short term goals.

(54:40):
Do you do longer term goalsetting as well, sort of like
three year goals, one year goals, that sort of stuff, or is that
less important to you?

Speaker 3 (54:48):
I would say it's probably less important to me
only because I think I'm prettylike clear with it in without
doing it.
But at the same time, I have apassion planner.
That's my like normal day today planner and it actually has
it for you so that you do itlike leading into the year where
it has your like well, I can'tremember now, but it's like

(55:09):
actually I think it's on my, Ithink it's almost halfway
through the year.
So it's actually what I shouldbe doing, probably this week.
But like three year, five year,10 year goals, what would you
like to like achieve in?
I think one is three to sixmonths or something.
So and I that would be like Iwould do that, and also when we
do with USA triathlon, they sendout like an athlete I forget

(55:37):
what they call it, but basicallysomething we need to fill out
with our goals for the yearevery single year.
So we at that point, like I'llthink about like more long term
goals and again, I still try tostay away from it's usually just
my shorter process goalsexpanded Like the things I want
to do better, like a lot of thetimes.

(55:58):
We'll also be still working onbike skills and being like more
confident and comfortable anddoing that well.
And it still isn't about like,like, like qualifying for the
Olympics or like that.
I usually won't write on it.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
I was hoping you were going to tell me a story of,
like 10 years ago.
You wrote down that you weregoing to appear at three
Olympics or something, and thiswas the materialization of but
apparently not.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
No, I did write and we wanted to have a family and
that's happened.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
So there you go, the magic of achieving goals.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Actually I would have to look back.
If I did write, maybe I'll getback to you on what one looked
at three years ago, and becausethe thing I probably haven't
done on the longer term ones isfollow up quite as much to see
where I'm like, where I'm atwith it.
So I'll get back to you.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
That is a good practice to do.
It's really good.
I've been writing down my goalsevery quarter for probably now
16 years and when you go backand look at the goals that I was
setting 16 years ago, thatseemed like massive,
unachievable goals.
They're all pretty, they're all, they're all done.
So it's yeah, it's a reallyit's a therapeutic exercise to

(57:16):
do Now.
I know you're well read.
You've mentioned one bookalready.
Let your mind run, but we can't.
We always ask for bookrecommendations on on this on
this podcast.
So any other books that youfound to be really helpful in
your journey or find yourselfrecommending.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
I really like mind gym.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Mind gym.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Mind gym.
It's like oh.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Don't worry, we can Google it afterwards.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Yeah, which is a pretty simple book, but it's
like one that as I read itreally resonated with me, like
the different, it gives a lot ofdifferent skills, type things.
And then, oh, what's the Excuseme?

(58:10):
The one when it's like the day,like the daily habits, atomic
habits, yes, by James Clear.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
What did you, what did you take from atomic habits?

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Just that it doesn't have to be very big and that
like or like vast goals or likeyour habits can start.
Actually, that was one of thereasons I started doing like 10
minutes of core a day, becauseit's like I feel like a lot of
people will skip things becausethey're like, well, that's too
big of a commitment or I'm notable to like go to the gym for

(58:45):
30 minutes to an hour and sotrying to do like making little
things seem worthwhile and alsostacking of those habits so that
like I would do a checklist inmy planner of like I mean it
would probably say like 10minutes a core, take a nap, take

(59:07):
like your vitamins, dovisualization, have like Quality
time with Tommy, like those arekind of be like daily, like
Checklist things I would do.
And what I realized is that likeI could do all of them from
like 8pm, like and beyond, andlike get like a sign that I mean

(59:31):
besides, I'm not going to takean 8pm nap, but like you could,
you could pretty much get all ofthose different things that I
thought I felt were like in likeLife or day enhancing.
You could do them all in areally short amount of time.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Yeah, I love atomic habits.
I think it's a great book and Ithink the habit stacking
concept is is fantastic.
So that's brilliant.
And one of the one of thetraditions we've got on this
podcast is to get the previousguests to ask the next guest a
question without knowing whothat guest will be.
So the last guest was seventimes world obstacle racing

(01:00:12):
champion, a guy called IanAdamson, and I think Claire's
got his question lined up foryou.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
So Ian asked what do you do in your athletic life
that makes your home life better?

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
I feel like it's a lot with the mental side of
things and just like havingawareness and trying to stay
present and like everything.
I would say everything I'velearned on the mental side of
things with sport hastransferred to like home life,
and that that would probably bethe bigger takeaway.

(01:00:46):
And how, from all the mentalskills I've learned, is just how
it impacts my day to day lifeof like being like less reactive
and more like patient and moreadaptable and being able to
break things down into smaller,like more manageable pieces day
to day and just being liketaking life as a learning

(01:01:08):
experience, I would say, where Iused to think like life had to
go a certain way to beconsidered successful.
And now I realize like,specifically, if I decide that
racing at the highest level andbeing a mom to Kimball isn't for
me, like that doesn't mean I'vefailed.
It just means it's not for meand I can do something different

(01:01:32):
.
And so I think that's been likemy biggest takeaway and from so
probably just the mentalstrategy and doing like sports
psychology Brilliant, I lovethat I suppose to like make it a
smaller answer.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Great answer.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
And one of the other things that we've just started
for this season of the podcastis to get asked to ask listeners
to pose a question againwithout knowing who they're
posing the question for, andJames has come in with an
absolute brilliant question.
So in the world of cycling Idon't know if this translates to
to the US or not In the worldof cycling we have a saying that

(01:02:10):
is N plus one, where the rightnumber of bikes to own is N plus
one, where the current numberof bikes is N.
So, in other words, you alwaysneed one more bike other than
bikes and perhaps it's not bikesfor you, as it might be for me,
but is there another item inyour life where you apply the N
plus one principle where you cannever really have quite enough

(01:02:32):
of them?
There's always room for onemore.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Well, I really have to think about this.
Also, when I first heard thisquestion, I had to Google it and
what comes up is somethingabout atoms and physics and I'm
like I don't know any of this.
Ok, so other advice, what I'mtrying to think of, what I lose
the most oh, it's a toughquestion for me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
I guess it doesn't have to be in sport actually it
could be in life.
So is there something that youalways need one more of?

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
I would say pens, mm Pens or pencils.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Nice pens or just lots of pens.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Like fine tip pens, fine, but it doesn't have to be
like I can buy them from likethe dollar store, but they have
to like write the right way.
That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Excellent, very good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
For your journaling books?
Yeah, for my like.
So I have my gratitude journal,I do, I have my planner, and
then we started a book forKimball where I write notes to
Kimball that I hope he readswhen he's older.
So those are my main, and thenjust like my lists, lists on

(01:03:52):
lists of things.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
And always, always written, not digital.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
Obviously, we did find that we had to.
As for family life, we had toput a Google calendar together
because unfortunately, mywritten planner doesn't transfer
to Tommy always.
So we were having somecommunication challenges because
I'm like, oh, I wrote it down,but like he's not a family

(01:04:18):
planner.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
And one question to finish off.
You are a very seasonedtraveler.
You travel.
Every time I've heard you seemto be in a different part of the
world.
Have you got any tips that youknow for those of us that are
kind of traveling to races butnot that often?
Have you got any tips that youfound to really help you kind of
dial in that kind of makingsure that you don't forget

(01:04:44):
anything, making sure it'spainless, whether you know,
maybe jet lag, all of that sortof stuff Any travel tips for
people out there?

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Yeah, I've got lots of them, I feel like, but a few
that I feel like are probablythe most important are with jet
lag.
As soon as you get somewhere,like never look back.
You are now on whatever timeyou have just arrived in, and if
you are like extremely tired, Iwould say don't take a nap.

(01:05:13):
But, like, if you're extremelytired and need to take a nap,
like be like 20 minutes and thendon't don't push news.
Like get up, go outside, likedo something so that you can
stay up.
I also, if you can and ifyou're managing your travel
yourself, and like if you havethe ability to choose when you
get in, I usually like to choose, if it's a long trip, to get in

(01:05:36):
more on the late side, so thatall I have to do is go to bed,
because I find that a whole dayof travel just exhausts me
anyway.
So I'm ready to like I'mnormally ready to go to bed at
that time.
I would say, for, especially ifyou're traveling with like a
bike and all your triathlonthings, less tends to be more.
Like you don't really need more.

(01:05:57):
No matter how long you're there, you don't really need more
than like three kits of likethree bike kits, three run kits.
I also find that, well, I'mprobably like more to the
extreme on this, but like I'lltake normal clothes and never
wear them, so I feel like youdon't really need that many
normal clothes if you're goingon a now.
Maybe if you're doing yourholiday combined with your race,

(01:06:19):
you might want some nicerobjects, but I find that most of
my training clothes can benormal clothes for me.
I think you can do so much nowon Google and like looking into
the places you go before you getthere, whether that's finding
restaurants or grocery storesthat are nearby.
Knowing I just get confidencein preparation.

(01:06:40):
So like knowing what way oftransportation is going to be
the best, whether it's Uber or acab or train or whatnot and
also like we do a lot of fooddelivery, so which food delivery
app is available where you'regoing so that you can get, like

(01:07:01):
the food that you specificallywant.
And all that stuff is gettingso crazy that like now where you
can do like your groceryshopping through the apps and
never have to leave the hotel.
I think it's important toexperience the places you are
for the race and like whetherit's by swimming, biking and
running or like going out to seesomething particular.

(01:07:25):
I think it's really cool that weget to go some neat places so
outside of the race, kind of useyour training to look around at
your new atmosphere.
And this like you can alsocheck out the race course on
Google Maps by like putting thelittle person down, if that, if
you're like nervous about notbeing somewhere before, like

(01:07:47):
I'll go, I'll take the coursemaps and then I'll have it so I
can see the course map and seelike the Google map person and
I'll put the blue line down andjust kind of go through.
So if you haven't done a racebefore, it can give you some
insight.
And if there's things that youlike need, pat them with you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Some great ideas, some great exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I'm just so I've got more, sorry, go on one more
please.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Bring all your race stuff, like your helmet, your
race suit, like the things youwouldn't be able to find in
wherever you're going veryeasily, like your pedals and
your like bike shoes and stuff.
Bring them on, your carry on so, in case your luggage gets lost
, you have like your pedals toput onto a new bike with your
bike shoes, and that will makeit a lot less stressful.

(01:08:35):
And a lot of people have beenputting the like air air tax in
their bag, in their bike bags,because there's a lot of luggage
getting lost.
So if the airline says we don'tknow where your bike is, you
can say but I do.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Well, I have some experience of that.
My bike just my bike juststarted staying Kona for a whole
week, longer than I was, butthe airline kept saying well, we
don't know where your bike isyet.
I'm like, well, I can tell youexactly where it is.
I know it's still sat on therunway at Kona.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's like there was like Iguess it was last year or
something when we I wasn'tracing at the time but I felt
like most of the posts I wasseeing from athletes were all
like tracking their luggage andlike showing where their luggage
is, which wasn't with them.
I think it was just a bad timefor travel for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
It was brilliant.
There's some really good advicethere.
I particularly like the idea ofbooking, kind of assessing the
food delivery apps and therestaurants and all that sort of
stuff beforehand, and theGoogle map mapping the route.
I never thought of that.
So I've got Ironman Spaincoming up shortly, so I will be
doing that, maybe even thisevening Brilliant.

(01:09:44):
Thank you very much, katie.
It's been an absolute pleasurechatting to you.
I hope you have an amazingseason and I hope you do make
Paris.
I hope you complete the hattrick there and I'm sure it'll
be a very different experienceto Tokyo as well.
So it'd be amazing to see youdo do special things in Paris.
And but yeah, thank you so much.

(01:10:06):
There's been some brilliantadvice there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
The best place to find Katie is on Instagram,
where she is KZaphires6.
So that's spelled Z-A-F-E-R-E-Sand then the number six,
kzaphires6.
If you know what we do at theTribe Atalon podcast, you've got

(01:10:36):
to register for Tribe Talk.
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It's packed full of ideas thatcan help improve your sport,

(01:10:58):
your life and your business.
So register for it attribeathaloncom and you'll be
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(01:11:19):
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