March 31, 2024 • 30 mins
I sit down with my mom to discuss Jacob's case and where we go from here.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
And I was old baby was murderedon the night of April ninth, nineteen
eighty seven. That baby boy ismy baby brother, Jacob. You heard
a little bit about the story lastepisode with Charlie. Today, I'm bringing
a very special guest, somebody whois directly impacted by this case, somebody
who I would not be able tobe doing what I'm doing without my beautiful
(00:31):
mom, Brenda. Hi, Mom, Hi, you welcome to Crime Lines
and Consequences. Thank you. Sothis is a different episode today. We're
going to be talking a little bitabout what's happened with Jacob's case. We're
going to be talking about kind ofwhere we are as people, as a
family advocates fighting for justice. Soin the last episode, listener, you
(00:53):
heard about what happened with Jacob's casewith the Attorney General's office. And so
my mom and I taken into theiroffice, not taken in, but invited
into their office on January eleventh ofthis year, and we were informed that
they felt they didn't have enough evidenceto prosecute Jacob's killer. So, Mom,
(01:15):
what was going through your mind afterwe left that meeting. I just
kind of felt deflated, really hurt, like let down again after thirty seven
years and just crushed. I couldn'teven I can't even put it into wards.
Actually, yeah, I think atfirst we wanted to believe that they
(01:38):
had done a thorough investigation. That'swhat they told us they did. But
after I received the record's request,we learned that they really didn't. So
I think it's safe to say thatwe're both very angry. We both are
very I don't know what the wordis, but frustrated isn't even like put
It doesn't even do it justice right, Devastated, devastated it's the right word.
(02:04):
Yeah, once again. Yeah,because we had so much hope to
go talk to the Department of Justice, which should be that department of injustice
in my eyes. Yeah, Iagree. I think that they they kind
of built up this hope for usin a lot of ways. And unfortunately,
(02:27):
because the Attorney General changed from Hectorbowed us to Aul taught us,
it's a completely different experience. LikeI guess I want to know, mom.
So the first time we talked tothe Attorney General, Hector bowed us
himself was on the call, right, and he apologized to us. He
actually took the time to give usthe time of day, which actually meant
(02:49):
something. It was the first timethat anybody ever acknowledged, anybody from the
government ever acknowledged that the state ofNew Mexico messed up. And he promised
he was going to look into him, him and his team, and then
this quack came in and he pretendshe's looking into it, and he and
doing nothing. He's in his officeall cozy and since this whatever not to
talk with us, to talk atus. Yeah, I think that was
(03:15):
one of the things that I tookaway to was the main prosecutor. Her
name is Greer. She was verycondescending the entire time, and she was
condescending to me on the phone aswell. How does that make you feel
when the people that are supposed tobe helping us are treating us this way.
I feel like it's easier for themto blame the victims family instead of
(03:36):
the perpetrator, because you know,they don't do their jobs. It seems
like, you know, we haveto prove ourselves in a sense instead of
the only person that was around Jacobwhen he was killed. Like you have
a twenty something page autopsy report,thirteen page arrest Affi David report, we
(03:57):
have reported over and over nineteen ninetythree times reported my abuse, your abuse
of him, stuck in my kneesgoing around the bus stop. We did
it again in nineteen ninety two,and nothing was ever done. They just
ignored us. They just didn't careat all. That's the vibe that I
got too from that team, wasthat they I mean, I think that
(04:17):
one of the prosecutors seemed like hecared. Yeah, but he had compassion.
He had compassion. I just yeah, I just feel like that's not
enough, right, So why can'tthey do their job exactly? One of
the things that bothered me the mostis that they didn't even bother talking to
(04:38):
I'll just say, talking to Stephen. We've never said his name before.
They didn't even bother. What didyou think about that? Because my expectation
was that they were at least goingto try to put some pressure on him
and at least at least interview him, if nothing else. Did you expect
that they were going to do that? I thought, you know, they're
prosecutors, they have the they needto go check and see and talk to
(04:59):
people. Well, they didn't talkto nobody. They just don't care.
They gave you the reports that yougave them, acting like they actually did
something when they didn't do nothing.Like it's just what do you call that,
Like when you're a lousy at yourjob? Neglec Yeah, there you
go, negligent. You know,if you have the job, you should
do the job. If you don't, you know, you shouldn't have the
(05:20):
job. If you're not going todo it, get out of office,
go home, go do something else. Yeah, go home. You're not
helping the victims family. You're helpingthe perpetrator. You're helping a killer,
and you're helping him keep getting awaywith molesting children and beating women. And
it's all your fault because you neverdid shit, period. And I did
(05:44):
tell them that, you know,I basically said that they were liable and
responsible for anybody else that Stephen hurtafter Jacob died, because and that includes
you and me exactly, because ifthey would have done their job in the
first place, if the statey ofNew Mexico and the city of Sukora would
have done their job in the firstplace, you have to investigate it.
Yeah. The second that he confessed, which he confessed twice, the second
(06:09):
that he confessed he should have beenarrested and charges should have been brought.
Whether or not you said whatever yousaid right, It doesn't matter what you
think the way you feel obligation toput killers in jail. Period. I
don't care what the mom says,what the brother says, it doesn't matter.
(06:30):
It's your job to investigate the killer. That's right, period. That's
right. So you and I havedecided that we're going to continue fighting together.
And even if Stephen isn't brought tojustice for what he did to Jacob,
even if Stephen is brought to justicefor what he's done to somebody else,
(06:54):
at the end of the day,what matters most to me. I'm
not going to speak for you,but for me is that he's not able
to hurt anybody else. I thinkthat nobody has a right to play god.
Nobody has a right to victimize otherpeople and call it love and try
to force you to stay with themwhen you're trying to get out, Attack
(07:14):
you with a knife, put aknife to your throat and say the only
way you're getting away is a bodybag. Guess what, pal, I
got away without a body bag.You bring that up, mom, I
think it's interesting, not interesting,but I think it's important for people to
know. This was something that hesaid often to you all the time.
I was attacked, I was beaten, I was choked, I was a
knife to my neck. I said, I'm going to leave you. I'm
(07:36):
tired of your crap, put aknife to my neck, straddle me on
the bed, and said, areyou leaving now? Like, who's going
to say yes when you have adagger to your throat? Seriously, that's
when you guys jumped out the window, even his kids. I think that
it's really hard to put into wordshow many times we've been shut down by
(07:58):
the authorities. And like you said, we had a ton of hope going
into that meeting with the attorney general. We thought that for sure something was
going to happen. For sure,like worst case scenario, they would have
said, we investigated everything, wecouldn't find anything, which is what they
said, but that's not what reallyhappened. But just like that feeling of
like we know what happened and weknow that it was wrong, and you
(08:20):
said, we reported it multiple times, We reported my abuse, your abuse,
his grooming of my cousin. Theystill didn't do anything. What does
it feel like when you know what'shappened, and you've you've lived it,
you've experienced it, and to havepeople that are in power tell you that
they don't believe you, it feelslike they're blaming me, like if I
(08:43):
wanted my son to be killed,like if I killed him, like if
you killed him, like if wewere to blame one hundred and I am
not taking that blame and you arenot taking that blame because you weren't even
in town, right And I'm notan abusive person. Now. It takes
me a lot for me to getmad. You've seen me get mad twice,
(09:05):
once for your teacher and once whenI found out this fool is a
pedophile. Yeah, you've never beena violent person, you've never been abusive.
You've been very nurturing my whole life. It's interesting that that's the route
though, that these I think it'san excuse because I find it hard to
believe that they actually believe what they'resaying. So they don't have to do
(09:28):
their job. They don't want todo their job period, and they're not
going to. Obviously, we haveto prove that we're in a sense of
Jacob's murder. That's messed up.To put a victims family in that position,
that's just cruel and unjust is it'srevictimizing and over the victims because it's
(09:52):
telling them, that telling us thatour our trauma doesn't matter, and our
loss doesn't matter, and that themurder of your son and my baby brother
doesn't matter in the eyes of law. That's exactly what life. Smile and
the joy and the happiness just rippedout of our arms overnight. It just
(10:15):
don't matter to them. It doesn'tmatter. It's the most frustrating thing I've
ever experienced in my life. Iwill never understand why they think this is
okay. I will never understand whythey refuse to do the right thing.
I just can't comprehend. Like ifI was in that position, I don't
know that I would be as coldas these people are. Yeah, it's
(10:37):
like they have no heart. They'retrying to make me his alibi for a
guy that killed my son. Iwill never going to be as alibi.
I didn't think he was capable ofhard child because I didn't he's a pastor's
son. Who would think a pastor'sson would kill a baby and offered,
Oh, let me babysit your kid, tell you, mom, if she
(11:00):
needs a babysitter, bring him tome. And you know him, You
knew him like you grew up withhim. Yeah, so of course you
didn't think that he was two differentpeople. He was a different person.
He's yeah, he's a jackal andI he's one person in public and he's
another person behind closed doors. Anybodycould pretend to be nice and loving,
(11:22):
and but then when you get behinddoors, it's a whole different change.
Yeah, the old demon comes out. It's so frustrating that it is always
going to be our word against hisin the scenario until we can find some
actual evidence or find somebody who cancome forward and say that they also were
victimized by him. But I gota question for you. So, if
(11:45):
he's not guilty, why did heabandon his property and leave and run if
nobody's even looking for him. WhenI I went in Walmart, and I
saw him standing in the vegetable thingwith his wife, and I went straight
up to and I told him inhis face, you are nothing but a
murderer. And his mouth dropped andher mouth dropped, and I turned around
(12:07):
and walked out because I was aboutto lay into him and I didn't want
to go to jail. Well,I left and after that he ran.
Why is he running if being guilty? So, yeah, the listeners don't
know any of that story. Soand can you tell a little bit about
how you found out that he ran? Yo, you don't have to say
(12:28):
their name. Well, a familymember of his is my friend, and
she comes over and we talked,and you know, we were talking about
Jacob and she asked me who wasit, and I told her and she
said, you would never think that. He's so quiet and he seems so
nice. I said, yeah,but getting behind closed doors and you know,
he's abusive, he's a molester.He's not what he seems. He's
(12:52):
a jackal. And I he said, he tried to kill me so many
times, choked me with wire hangers, put a knife to my throat,
beat me. He pulled the doorsoff the nches, he just ripped clothes
off of me, threw me outsidenaked, without a stitch of clothes,
nothing on. I was in thecar naked, crying until he came out
(13:13):
with a blanket. You don't evenknow that part. I don't know that
part. He really traumatized me,he really, really traumatized me. He
called me a dog. He's noteven good looking at bowl legged, ugly,
stupid demon. He never deserved me, never, never. Yeah,
it does say a lot. Andaround the time he left too, that
(13:35):
was around the time when the investigationwas reopened. So I think that it
was probably a number of factors,but I think definitely you calling him out
in Walmart scared him. It's somethingthat I don't think you've ever done well
in public. I got him inthe police station won day, Yeah,
but I mean, like not ina publicizer. It took everything I had
(13:58):
just to go up to him inhis space. And because I said,
he's gonna know that I know,because he didn't want me to find out
that's in the reports. Guess whatI know. You're a killer. You
murdered my son. It was notaccident to beat my son to death while
I was at work. If hewas innocent, his story wouldn't have changed
(14:18):
four times. If he was innocent, he wouldn't be hiding right now if
he was innocent. Like, there'sall these signs, and yet the district
attorney, the attorney general, theydon't even fucking bother to try to even
look into this. It just itdoesn't make any sense to me. I
cannot understand why she was so caughtup on the fact that, well,
(14:39):
there's all this rumor about you beingthe one who hurt Jacob, and there's
all this stuff, and like,what if the first injury was the one
that caused the problem, so thatthe second injury was fatal and I can't
prove that, and it's all aboutthe medical evidence. And I'm like,
but it's not all about the medicalevidence. Yeah, there are problems in
this case. There are. Iwas blamed. Everybody knows that. But
(15:01):
you also have to take into accounta lot of other factors with that.
First of all, who was tellingthat story? Where'd that story originate from?
Mom? From him? Okay?He was walking down the hall and
he saw Jacob in the head,right, So everything that my grandma said
and everything that you said was basedon information that he was providing exactly.
(15:22):
Okay, So I want to makethat very clear. First of all.
The second thing is I was nota big kid. You were like I
was, I was short, Iwas I didn't weigh very much. No,
you were tiny. You couldn't hurthim even if I wanted to.
Fracture his skull. He could notI could not have there. Just so,
(15:43):
I feel like there's too much focuson what this narrative that Stephen created
around me. Couple that with thefact that I feel like there's some weird
things going on with the medical investigator. We have two causes of death.
We have two different reports exactly theexact same report, exact same information,
(16:07):
but one has homicide checked and theother one says undetermined. Why are there
too? Why are they covering upfor him? Why are there too?
And every time I ask that question, nobody seems to have an answer for
it, and nobody even seems towant to ask that question, which I
think is a valid question. Theydon't care why are there too? Because
they're allows you at their job,obviously. I just don't this whole thing.
(16:30):
It just drives me crazy, Like, honestly, I can't believe we're
still sitting here talking about the sameshit that we've been talking about for the
last almost thirty eight years. It'sjust me violated the restraining order that I
put on him. Heill stuck tome. They didn't do nothing, I
(16:52):
wrote to the judge. They didn'tdo nothing Like over and over and over.
They just ignored us and ignored usand ignored us. We're not going
to shut up. We're not goingaway. We're not crawling back under that
rock. We were under it whenhe had us shut up. We're never
going to shut up, never.So you're not getting rid of us.
You're not gonna not do your job. You're gonna do it. Yeah,
(17:14):
we're gonna take your ass to court. And it's a matter of public record.
His name is in the report,like you know what I mean,
anybody could find this information. Theycan get this information, So I'm not
naming him and like accusing him ofanything that he hasn't already been accused of.
His name is all over that policereport. It's all over it,
full name, And we don't haveanything to lose at this point, right
(17:38):
So being anyway, he deserves tobe called out. And if anybody knows
of anything that's happened to a victimof his, or if you are a
victim or you're a victim of StephenChavis, then let us know, because
we want justice not just for us, not just for Jacob, but for
you, for who is brave enoughto do this. Because we'll stand with
(18:04):
you all the way. Yeah,I don't care who he goes down for,
but he needs to go to jailwhere he belongs, to prison.
He needs to not be able tohurt anybody else exactly for the rest of
his life. No more babies,no more kids. Nobody's just a coward,
that's all he is. Yeah,he's a coward, and he knows
(18:25):
what he did, and that's whyhe's running. I want to go back
to July nineteen eighty seven when wewent to Santa Fe to the State Police
Department because Stephen was going to proveto you that he was he was innocent
through a polygraph. So we waited. It must have been hours outside in
that car. While it felt likeat least four hours, but I was
(18:48):
little, it could have been fortyfive minutes. I just remember it was
July. It was hot. Yeah, it was hot. I think it
was more like an hour, Okay, but I think he shortened it,
like he told me, oh,they let me go, it's fine.
He lied, he said he passed. Yeah, he did not pass.
We found out after we got therecords that he failed that polygraph. So
(19:10):
I think that that's something that waslike a turning point. Right. That
was where you and even I bothwere like, Okay, maybe he's right,
maybe it was an accident, becauseobviously if he would have failed,
they would have arrested him exactly.So is that what was going through your
mind? I thought exactly what wasgoing through my mind because I thought,
well, if he was guilty,they would arrested him by now, because
(19:32):
you know that's their job. Butthey didn't arrest him. They didn't arrest
him in eighty seven when he killeda baby. They didn't arrest him in
ninety when he molested you, whenhe abused me, when he was after
my niece. They didn't arrest himin ninety two when we reported it for
the second time. But nothing,he doesn't even have a record, there's
no record, there's no record onall this stuff. He's already pulled.
(19:55):
Why why are they protecting him?It's a good question, good question.
Whose son is he? Like?Seriously, yeah, like all these people
protecting him and blaming us, whythey have it in black and white?
I seen that autopsy report in nineteenninety one, after all this was said
and done, and that's when Isaw it. It's a homicide right there.
(20:18):
Yeah, that's when I said,oh my god, he's been lying
all this time, and he's agood, good liar. Speaking of lies,
let's talk about the lie that ledto him convincing you to marry him.
He went to get some get aloneon a mobile home trailer and he
put mister and missus chevis and he'she did it. He signed it,
(20:41):
and then he came and somehow,I don't know, he wanted to get
another trailer, so he went anddid it again. He signed like if
we were married. I didn't knowhe did it for his insurance, right,
I didn't know that he was doingthis. Yeah, So he put
me down on the double white ashis wife, like we were married.
And then he comes and tells melike a few months later, oh,
(21:03):
they're going to get us for fraudbecause I put that you're my wife and
you're not my wife. And sowe had to get married. And I
didn't even tell you we did it. JP grab two people up the street,
no dress, no rings, nothing, just a license. It wasn't
nothing. There was no cake,no celebration. It wasn't a wedding.
It was a forced marriage because hewas going to get me in trouble for
(21:25):
fraud. Because of the crap hewas pulling behind my back. He put
me on his insurance. He putyou on his insurance before he even asked
me. I think that that's somethingthat is really important, because up until
that point, had he ever hityou. He never hit me until he
had the marriage license. He neverabused me, He never talked bad to
(21:47):
me. He never did anything wrongto me until you were married, until
he got that license, right,because it's a lot harder for you to
leave when you're married. He thoughtI was stuck with him and I was
never going to get out because hewas going to kill me before I got
out. What point did you startto suspect that he wasn't being honest about
what happened with Jacob as soon ashe started beating on me, Because who's
(22:11):
going to do something like that?I thought he was this nice preacher boy's
son, and he's not. He'sa demon. You come at you with
knives and with hangers and just youknow, trying to kill you every time.
He gets jealous because you look goodwhere you're going who you're screwing.
I'm at home, washing and cleaning, like he comes home to beat me
(22:34):
because I'm at home. What kindof fool is that? Like I didn't
do anything like I should have.I'm going to leave you if you go
to your friend's house. I wentto your house every single day, and
he never left on purpose. Iwanted him to leave, and I got
beat up more for that, andI just I didn't care. Yeah,
I really didn't care. I justwanted away from him. It's just like
(22:57):
that period of time was like thedarkest time, I think, at least
for me. I'm assuming it wasfor you. It's all been dark.
Well, it started with Jacob's death, and then it just got worse and
worse. And we still don't haveany answers. We still don't have anybody
(23:17):
who's willing to be the right personto do the right thing. We might
get some surprises, Yeah, yeah, I'm trusting God. I believe somebody's
going to come forward because this isenough, is enough. We shouldn't even
have to name him, you know, but I'm not going to protect a
killer no more. Yeah, howdo you think he is now? He's
(23:40):
a year older than me, sixtyfour sixty four years old. If you
are from around the SoCoRo area orthe Silver City area, and you know
somebody who has had interactions with thisperson and they've been victimized by him.
(24:00):
We would love to talk to them, We would love to help them to
get their case in front of theright people. You know, for all
the work that we've done, andI do think we need to take a
moment and appreciate how far we've gotten. This is the furthest we've ever gone
with this case. We really havedone a lot, and that's that's because
of what we did. We've neverstopped, not because of what anybody else.
(24:22):
I mean, yeah, people helpedus, but I'm talking about anybody
else, like the government, theyhaven't done anything really. So everything that's
happened in this case is because wemade it happen. And I know that
Jacob is proud of us for thathe is. He's smiling down from him
and because he knows we're trying sohard to get justice for him. Somebody
(24:45):
asked me why I don't quit,and I'm going to ask you the same
question. I'm going to give myanswer first, and then I'm going to
ask you the same question. AndI told them, I said, because
I know that Jacob would never quiton me, and so I quit on
him. It's not an option.What keeps you going? Mom? Why
don't you quit? I'm not gonnaquit because my kids are my heartbeat.
(25:06):
He wripped my heart out and hestumped on it and he threw it in
the trash. And I'm never gonnaquit because my kids are worth everything to
me. Every heart ache, everytear, every everything that I've gone through,
I do for them and I wantjustice. And until I see that
day, until I take my lastbreath, that's when I'm gonna stop trying
(25:30):
to get justice for my son andfor us. Yeah. Same same.
That boy was my joy and Iknow he was yours too. Here's my
miracle. He was just so wonderful. I pray for him. His life
is smile, his just everything isjust a awesome little boy. So much
(25:51):
personality too for an infant, youknow, like amazing. It was awesome.
I can't even imagine how wonderful hewould have been here with you.
Yeah, but he's still here withus. He's here with us forever.
We're never giving up. So,Mom, anything else that you want to
share about what it's been like fightingfor justice, or anything that you want
(26:11):
to shar about Jacob or the case, or any advice you want to give,
anything you want to say. First, when all this happened, I
couldn't even say my son's name.I was so devastated. And you know,
I've come a long way, andI'm going to keep going a long
way because God give me this voiceso I can fight for justice, you
(26:33):
know, fight for justice not justfor my baby, but for your babies
too, Baby Brianna, for MARIIfor Victoria. I don't know them,
but I love them. And I'llfight for you, whoever you are.
If he did something to you,I will hold your aunt in court and
come with you every time you goto court, and I will pray for
(26:56):
you, and I will support you, and I will try to be there
through thick and in because no matterwhat, this demon needs to go where
he's supposed to have been the wholetime. And thank you Eric for everything
you do. Just my joy,my rock. I love you so much.
I love you too, Mo,and I've told you this before,
(27:19):
nobody else I would rather do thiswith. Yeah, I'm just so proud
of us. Like I know,we didn't get what we wanted out of
this, but we are so muchstronger than they even know we are so
much more stubborn that they than theycan even expect, and so I really
(27:42):
do, truly hope that when thetime comes, after we've worked with a
private investigator and we get the evidencethat we need, and then when that
time comes, I hope that theState of New Mexico finally does the right
thing. And if they don't,then we'll hold them accountable, or we'll
work on getting somebody else elected.Right exactly, if you can't do the
(28:03):
job, get out of the office, yeah, help or get out of
the way, is what I've beensaying. So as part of kind of
our next steps, one of thethings that we're going to be doing in
April is another ten days of Jacob, and it's going to start on April
first, and it's going to gothrough the tenth and from the April first
of the tenth, we're going toask you guys to help listeners to help
(28:26):
us by emailing and calling and fillingout web forms for the Attorney General's office
and asking them to do a properinvestigation on Jacob's case, because what they
did was not an investigation. Theytalked to one person in three and a
half years. I don't understand howthey think that that's a good job.
(28:48):
If I did that level of workat my job, I would have been
fired a long time ago, Likehow could you get away with that?
And everyone's just like this is great. So we're going to need help with
that, and we would love ifyou guys just show up in the numbers
that you showed up for the lastWe're looking to, like I said,
hire a PI as well as potentiallyan attorney to help us. And we're
(29:11):
just going to do everything we canto move forward and figure out what's going
to happen. I guess, butwe appreciate. I appreciate. I'm sure
you do too, Mama. Letyou express your own appreciation. But I
appreciate everybody who has helped us getthis far, and people who don't know
us, people all around the worldwho just heard this story and decided to
(29:33):
help. We. I am soappreciative of that. We I appreciate every
boy that has mentioned Jacob's name,no matter who you are, good,
Thank you and God bless you.I love you all and that will pray
for you. Thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
We're not done. It's a staytuned, Yes,
And I was old baby was murderedon the night of April ninth, nineteen
eighty seven. That baby boy ismy baby brother, Jacob. You heard
a little bit about the story lastepisode with Charlie. Today, I'm bringing
a very special guest, somebody whois directly impacted by this case, somebody
who I would not be able tobe doing what I'm doing without my beautiful
(00:31):
mom, Brenda. Hi, Mom, Hi, you welcome to Crime Lines
and Consequences. Thank you. Sothis is a different episode today. We're
going to be talking a little bitabout what's happened with Jacob's case. We're
going to be talking about kind ofwhere we are as people, as a
family advocates fighting for justice. Soin the last episode, listener, you
(00:53):
heard about what happened with Jacob's casewith the Attorney General's office. And so
my mom and I taken into theiroffice, not taken in, but invited
into their office on January eleventh ofthis year, and we were informed that
they felt they didn't have enough evidenceto prosecute Jacob's killer. So, Mom,
(01:15):
what was going through your mind afterwe left that meeting. I just
kind of felt deflated, really hurt, like let down again after thirty seven
years and just crushed. I couldn'teven I can't even put it into wards.
Actually, yeah, I think atfirst we wanted to believe that they
(01:38):
had done a thorough investigation. That'swhat they told us they did. But
after I received the record's request,we learned that they really didn't. So
I think it's safe to say thatwe're both very angry. We both are
very I don't know what the wordis, but frustrated isn't even like put
It doesn't even do it justice right, Devastated, devastated it's the right word.
(02:04):
Yeah, once again. Yeah,because we had so much hope to
go talk to the Department of Justice, which should be that department of injustice
in my eyes. Yeah, Iagree. I think that they they kind
of built up this hope for usin a lot of ways. And unfortunately,
(02:27):
because the Attorney General changed from Hectorbowed us to Aul taught us,
it's a completely different experience. LikeI guess I want to know, mom.
So the first time we talked tothe Attorney General, Hector bowed us
himself was on the call, right, and he apologized to us. He
actually took the time to give usthe time of day, which actually meant
(02:49):
something. It was the first timethat anybody ever acknowledged, anybody from the
government ever acknowledged that the state ofNew Mexico messed up. And he promised
he was going to look into him, him and his team, and then
this quack came in and he pretendshe's looking into it, and he and
doing nothing. He's in his officeall cozy and since this whatever not to
talk with us, to talk atus. Yeah, I think that was
(03:15):
one of the things that I tookaway to was the main prosecutor. Her
name is Greer. She was verycondescending the entire time, and she was
condescending to me on the phone aswell. How does that make you feel
when the people that are supposed tobe helping us are treating us this way.
I feel like it's easier for themto blame the victims family instead of
(03:36):
the perpetrator, because you know,they don't do their jobs. It seems
like, you know, we haveto prove ourselves in a sense instead of
the only person that was around Jacobwhen he was killed. Like you have
a twenty something page autopsy report,thirteen page arrest Affi David report, we
(03:57):
have reported over and over nineteen ninetythree times reported my abuse, your abuse
of him, stuck in my kneesgoing around the bus stop. We did
it again in nineteen ninety two,and nothing was ever done. They just
ignored us. They just didn't careat all. That's the vibe that I
got too from that team, wasthat they I mean, I think that
(04:17):
one of the prosecutors seemed like hecared. Yeah, but he had compassion.
He had compassion. I just yeah, I just feel like that's not
enough, right, So why can'tthey do their job exactly? One of
the things that bothered me the mostis that they didn't even bother talking to
(04:38):
I'll just say, talking to Stephen. We've never said his name before.
They didn't even bother. What didyou think about that? Because my expectation
was that they were at least goingto try to put some pressure on him
and at least at least interview him, if nothing else. Did you expect
that they were going to do that? I thought, you know, they're
prosecutors, they have the they needto go check and see and talk to
(04:59):
people. Well, they didn't talkto nobody. They just don't care.
They gave you the reports that yougave them, acting like they actually did
something when they didn't do nothing.Like it's just what do you call that,
Like when you're a lousy at yourjob? Neglec Yeah, there you
go, negligent. You know,if you have the job, you should
do the job. If you don't, you know, you shouldn't have the
(05:20):
job. If you're not going todo it, get out of office,
go home, go do something else. Yeah, go home. You're not
helping the victims family. You're helpingthe perpetrator. You're helping a killer,
and you're helping him keep getting awaywith molesting children and beating women. And
it's all your fault because you neverdid shit, period. And I did
(05:44):
tell them that, you know,I basically said that they were liable and
responsible for anybody else that Stephen hurtafter Jacob died, because and that includes
you and me exactly, because ifthey would have done their job in the
first place, if the statey ofNew Mexico and the city of Sukora would
have done their job in the firstplace, you have to investigate it.
Yeah. The second that he confessed, which he confessed twice, the second
(06:09):
that he confessed he should have beenarrested and charges should have been brought.
Whether or not you said whatever yousaid right, It doesn't matter what you
think the way you feel obligation toput killers in jail. Period. I
don't care what the mom says,what the brother says, it doesn't matter.
(06:30):
It's your job to investigate the killer. That's right, period. That's
right. So you and I havedecided that we're going to continue fighting together.
And even if Stephen isn't brought tojustice for what he did to Jacob,
even if Stephen is brought to justicefor what he's done to somebody else,
(06:54):
at the end of the day,what matters most to me. I'm
not going to speak for you,but for me is that he's not able
to hurt anybody else. I thinkthat nobody has a right to play god.
Nobody has a right to victimize otherpeople and call it love and try
to force you to stay with themwhen you're trying to get out, Attack
(07:14):
you with a knife, put aknife to your throat and say the only
way you're getting away is a bodybag. Guess what, pal, I
got away without a body bag.You bring that up, mom, I
think it's interesting, not interesting,but I think it's important for people to
know. This was something that hesaid often to you all the time.
I was attacked, I was beaten, I was choked, I was a
knife to my neck. I said, I'm going to leave you. I'm
(07:36):
tired of your crap, put aknife to my neck, straddle me on
the bed, and said, areyou leaving now? Like, who's going
to say yes when you have adagger to your throat? Seriously, that's
when you guys jumped out the window, even his kids. I think that
it's really hard to put into wordshow many times we've been shut down by
(07:58):
the authorities. And like you said, we had a ton of hope going
into that meeting with the attorney general. We thought that for sure something was
going to happen. For sure,like worst case scenario, they would have
said, we investigated everything, wecouldn't find anything, which is what they
said, but that's not what reallyhappened. But just like that feeling of
like we know what happened and weknow that it was wrong, and you
(08:20):
said, we reported it multiple times, We reported my abuse, your abuse,
his grooming of my cousin. Theystill didn't do anything. What does
it feel like when you know what'shappened, and you've you've lived it,
you've experienced it, and to havepeople that are in power tell you that
they don't believe you, it feelslike they're blaming me, like if I
(08:43):
wanted my son to be killed,like if I killed him, like if
you killed him, like if wewere to blame one hundred and I am
not taking that blame and you arenot taking that blame because you weren't even
in town, right And I'm notan abusive person. Now. It takes
me a lot for me to getmad. You've seen me get mad twice,
(09:05):
once for your teacher and once whenI found out this fool is a
pedophile. Yeah, you've never beena violent person, you've never been abusive.
You've been very nurturing my whole life. It's interesting that that's the route
though, that these I think it'san excuse because I find it hard to
believe that they actually believe what they'resaying. So they don't have to do
(09:28):
their job. They don't want todo their job period, and they're not
going to. Obviously, we haveto prove that we're in a sense of
Jacob's murder. That's messed up.To put a victims family in that position,
that's just cruel and unjust is it'srevictimizing and over the victims because it's
(09:52):
telling them, that telling us thatour our trauma doesn't matter, and our
loss doesn't matter, and that themurder of your son and my baby brother
doesn't matter in the eyes of law. That's exactly what life. Smile and
the joy and the happiness just rippedout of our arms overnight. It just
(10:15):
don't matter to them. It doesn'tmatter. It's the most frustrating thing I've
ever experienced in my life. Iwill never understand why they think this is
okay. I will never understand whythey refuse to do the right thing.
I just can't comprehend. Like ifI was in that position, I don't
know that I would be as coldas these people are. Yeah, it's
(10:37):
like they have no heart. They'retrying to make me his alibi for a
guy that killed my son. Iwill never going to be as alibi.
I didn't think he was capable ofhard child because I didn't he's a pastor's
son. Who would think a pastor'sson would kill a baby and offered,
Oh, let me babysit your kid, tell you, mom, if she
(11:00):
needs a babysitter, bring him tome. And you know him, You
knew him like you grew up withhim. Yeah, so of course you
didn't think that he was two differentpeople. He was a different person.
He's yeah, he's a jackal andI he's one person in public and he's
another person behind closed doors. Anybodycould pretend to be nice and loving,
(11:22):
and but then when you get behinddoors, it's a whole different change.
Yeah, the old demon comes out. It's so frustrating that it is always
going to be our word against hisin the scenario until we can find some
actual evidence or find somebody who cancome forward and say that they also were
victimized by him. But I gota question for you. So, if
(11:45):
he's not guilty, why did heabandon his property and leave and run if
nobody's even looking for him. WhenI I went in Walmart, and I
saw him standing in the vegetable thingwith his wife, and I went straight
up to and I told him inhis face, you are nothing but a
murderer. And his mouth dropped andher mouth dropped, and I turned around
(12:07):
and walked out because I was aboutto lay into him and I didn't want
to go to jail. Well,I left and after that he ran.
Why is he running if being guilty? So, yeah, the listeners don't
know any of that story. Soand can you tell a little bit about
how you found out that he ran? Yo, you don't have to say
(12:28):
their name. Well, a familymember of his is my friend, and
she comes over and we talked,and you know, we were talking about
Jacob and she asked me who wasit, and I told her and she
said, you would never think that. He's so quiet and he seems so
nice. I said, yeah,but getting behind closed doors and you know,
he's abusive, he's a molester.He's not what he seems. He's
(12:52):
a jackal. And I he said, he tried to kill me so many
times, choked me with wire hangers, put a knife to my throat,
beat me. He pulled the doorsoff the nches, he just ripped clothes
off of me, threw me outsidenaked, without a stitch of clothes,
nothing on. I was in thecar naked, crying until he came out
(13:13):
with a blanket. You don't evenknow that part. I don't know that
part. He really traumatized me,he really, really traumatized me. He
called me a dog. He's noteven good looking at bowl legged, ugly,
stupid demon. He never deserved me, never, never. Yeah,
it does say a lot. Andaround the time he left too, that
(13:35):
was around the time when the investigationwas reopened. So I think that it
was probably a number of factors,but I think definitely you calling him out
in Walmart scared him. It's somethingthat I don't think you've ever done well
in public. I got him inthe police station won day, Yeah,
but I mean, like not ina publicizer. It took everything I had
(13:58):
just to go up to him inhis space. And because I said,
he's gonna know that I know,because he didn't want me to find out
that's in the reports. Guess whatI know. You're a killer. You
murdered my son. It was notaccident to beat my son to death while
I was at work. If hewas innocent, his story wouldn't have changed
(14:18):
four times. If he was innocent, he wouldn't be hiding right now if
he was innocent. Like, there'sall these signs, and yet the district
attorney, the attorney general, theydon't even fucking bother to try to even
look into this. It just itdoesn't make any sense to me. I
cannot understand why she was so caughtup on the fact that, well,
(14:39):
there's all this rumor about you beingthe one who hurt Jacob, and there's
all this stuff, and like,what if the first injury was the one
that caused the problem, so thatthe second injury was fatal and I can't
prove that, and it's all aboutthe medical evidence. And I'm like,
but it's not all about the medicalevidence. Yeah, there are problems in
this case. There are. Iwas blamed. Everybody knows that. But
(15:01):
you also have to take into accounta lot of other factors with that.
First of all, who was tellingthat story? Where'd that story originate from?
Mom? From him? Okay?He was walking down the hall and
he saw Jacob in the head,right, So everything that my grandma said
and everything that you said was basedon information that he was providing exactly.
(15:22):
Okay, So I want to makethat very clear. First of all.
The second thing is I was nota big kid. You were like I
was, I was short, Iwas I didn't weigh very much. No,
you were tiny. You couldn't hurthim even if I wanted to.
Fracture his skull. He could notI could not have there. Just so,
(15:43):
I feel like there's too much focuson what this narrative that Stephen created
around me. Couple that with thefact that I feel like there's some weird
things going on with the medical investigator. We have two causes of death.
We have two different reports exactly theexact same report, exact same information,
(16:07):
but one has homicide checked and theother one says undetermined. Why are there
too? Why are they covering upfor him? Why are there too?
And every time I ask that question, nobody seems to have an answer for
it, and nobody even seems towant to ask that question, which I
think is a valid question. Theydon't care why are there too? Because
they're allows you at their job,obviously. I just don't this whole thing.
(16:30):
It just drives me crazy, Like, honestly, I can't believe we're
still sitting here talking about the sameshit that we've been talking about for the
last almost thirty eight years. It'sjust me violated the restraining order that I
put on him. Heill stuck tome. They didn't do nothing, I
(16:52):
wrote to the judge. They didn'tdo nothing Like over and over and over.
They just ignored us and ignored usand ignored us. We're not going
to shut up. We're not goingaway. We're not crawling back under that
rock. We were under it whenhe had us shut up. We're never
going to shut up, never.So you're not getting rid of us.
You're not gonna not do your job. You're gonna do it. Yeah,
(17:14):
we're gonna take your ass to court. And it's a matter of public record.
His name is in the report,like you know what I mean,
anybody could find this information. Theycan get this information, So I'm not
naming him and like accusing him ofanything that he hasn't already been accused of.
His name is all over that policereport. It's all over it,
full name, And we don't haveanything to lose at this point, right
(17:38):
So being anyway, he deserves tobe called out. And if anybody knows
of anything that's happened to a victimof his, or if you are a
victim or you're a victim of StephenChavis, then let us know, because
we want justice not just for us, not just for Jacob, but for
you, for who is brave enoughto do this. Because we'll stand with
(18:04):
you all the way. Yeah,I don't care who he goes down for,
but he needs to go to jailwhere he belongs, to prison.
He needs to not be able tohurt anybody else exactly for the rest of
his life. No more babies,no more kids. Nobody's just a coward,
that's all he is. Yeah,he's a coward, and he knows
(18:25):
what he did, and that's whyhe's running. I want to go back
to July nineteen eighty seven when wewent to Santa Fe to the State Police
Department because Stephen was going to proveto you that he was he was innocent
through a polygraph. So we waited. It must have been hours outside in
that car. While it felt likeat least four hours, but I was
(18:48):
little, it could have been fortyfive minutes. I just remember it was
July. It was hot. Yeah, it was hot. I think it
was more like an hour, Okay, but I think he shortened it,
like he told me, oh,they let me go, it's fine.
He lied, he said he passed. Yeah, he did not pass.
We found out after we got therecords that he failed that polygraph. So
(19:10):
I think that that's something that waslike a turning point. Right. That
was where you and even I bothwere like, Okay, maybe he's right,
maybe it was an accident, becauseobviously if he would have failed,
they would have arrested him exactly.So is that what was going through your
mind? I thought exactly what wasgoing through my mind because I thought,
well, if he was guilty,they would arrested him by now, because
(19:32):
you know that's their job. Butthey didn't arrest him. They didn't arrest
him in eighty seven when he killeda baby. They didn't arrest him in
ninety when he molested you, whenhe abused me, when he was after
my niece. They didn't arrest himin ninety two when we reported it for
the second time. But nothing,he doesn't even have a record, there's
no record, there's no record onall this stuff. He's already pulled.
(19:55):
Why why are they protecting him?It's a good question, good question.
Whose son is he? Like?Seriously, yeah, like all these people
protecting him and blaming us, whythey have it in black and white?
I seen that autopsy report in nineteenninety one, after all this was said
and done, and that's when Isaw it. It's a homicide right there.
(20:18):
Yeah, that's when I said,oh my god, he's been lying
all this time, and he's agood, good liar. Speaking of lies,
let's talk about the lie that ledto him convincing you to marry him.
He went to get some get aloneon a mobile home trailer and he
put mister and missus chevis and he'she did it. He signed it,
(20:41):
and then he came and somehow,I don't know, he wanted to get
another trailer, so he went anddid it again. He signed like if
we were married. I didn't knowhe did it for his insurance, right,
I didn't know that he was doingthis. Yeah, So he put
me down on the double white ashis wife, like we were married.
And then he comes and tells melike a few months later, oh,
(21:03):
they're going to get us for fraudbecause I put that you're my wife and
you're not my wife. And sowe had to get married. And I
didn't even tell you we did it. JP grab two people up the street,
no dress, no rings, nothing, just a license. It wasn't
nothing. There was no cake,no celebration. It wasn't a wedding.
It was a forced marriage because hewas going to get me in trouble for
(21:25):
fraud. Because of the crap hewas pulling behind my back. He put
me on his insurance. He putyou on his insurance before he even asked
me. I think that that's somethingthat is really important, because up until
that point, had he ever hityou. He never hit me until he
had the marriage license. He neverabused me, He never talked bad to
(21:47):
me. He never did anything wrongto me until you were married, until
he got that license, right,because it's a lot harder for you to
leave when you're married. He thoughtI was stuck with him and I was
never going to get out because hewas going to kill me before I got
out. What point did you startto suspect that he wasn't being honest about
what happened with Jacob as soon ashe started beating on me, Because who's
(22:11):
going to do something like that?I thought he was this nice preacher boy's
son, and he's not. He'sa demon. You come at you with
knives and with hangers and just youknow, trying to kill you every time.
He gets jealous because you look goodwhere you're going who you're screwing.
I'm at home, washing and cleaning, like he comes home to beat me
(22:34):
because I'm at home. What kindof fool is that? Like I didn't
do anything like I should have.I'm going to leave you if you go
to your friend's house. I wentto your house every single day, and
he never left on purpose. Iwanted him to leave, and I got
beat up more for that, andI just I didn't care. Yeah,
I really didn't care. I justwanted away from him. It's just like
(22:57):
that period of time was like thedarkest time, I think, at least
for me. I'm assuming it wasfor you. It's all been dark.
Well, it started with Jacob's death, and then it just got worse and
worse. And we still don't haveany answers. We still don't have anybody
(23:17):
who's willing to be the right personto do the right thing. We might
get some surprises, Yeah, yeah, I'm trusting God. I believe somebody's
going to come forward because this isenough, is enough. We shouldn't even
have to name him, you know, but I'm not going to protect a
killer no more. Yeah, howdo you think he is now? He's
(23:40):
a year older than me, sixtyfour sixty four years old. If you
are from around the SoCoRo area orthe Silver City area, and you know
somebody who has had interactions with thisperson and they've been victimized by him.
(24:00):
We would love to talk to them, We would love to help them to
get their case in front of theright people. You know, for all
the work that we've done, andI do think we need to take a
moment and appreciate how far we've gotten. This is the furthest we've ever gone
with this case. We really havedone a lot, and that's that's because
of what we did. We've neverstopped, not because of what anybody else.
(24:22):
I mean, yeah, people helpedus, but I'm talking about anybody
else, like the government, theyhaven't done anything really. So everything that's
happened in this case is because wemade it happen. And I know that
Jacob is proud of us for thathe is. He's smiling down from him
and because he knows we're trying sohard to get justice for him. Somebody
(24:45):
asked me why I don't quit,and I'm going to ask you the same
question. I'm going to give myanswer first, and then I'm going to
ask you the same question. AndI told them, I said, because
I know that Jacob would never quiton me, and so I quit on
him. It's not an option.What keeps you going? Mom? Why
don't you quit? I'm not gonnaquit because my kids are my heartbeat.
(25:06):
He wripped my heart out and hestumped on it and he threw it in
the trash. And I'm never gonnaquit because my kids are worth everything to
me. Every heart ache, everytear, every everything that I've gone through,
I do for them and I wantjustice. And until I see that
day, until I take my lastbreath, that's when I'm gonna stop trying
(25:30):
to get justice for my son andfor us. Yeah. Same same.
That boy was my joy and Iknow he was yours too. Here's my
miracle. He was just so wonderful. I pray for him. His life
is smile, his just everything isjust a awesome little boy. So much
(25:51):
personality too for an infant, youknow, like amazing. It was awesome.
I can't even imagine how wonderful hewould have been here with you.
Yeah, but he's still here withus. He's here with us forever.
We're never giving up. So,Mom, anything else that you want to
share about what it's been like fightingfor justice, or anything that you want
(26:11):
to shar about Jacob or the case, or any advice you want to give,
anything you want to say. First, when all this happened, I
couldn't even say my son's name.I was so devastated. And you know,
I've come a long way, andI'm going to keep going a long
way because God give me this voiceso I can fight for justice, you
(26:33):
know, fight for justice not justfor my baby, but for your babies
too, Baby Brianna, for MARIIfor Victoria. I don't know them,
but I love them. And I'llfight for you, whoever you are.
If he did something to you,I will hold your aunt in court and
come with you every time you goto court, and I will pray for
(26:56):
you, and I will support you, and I will try to be there
through thick and in because no matterwhat, this demon needs to go where
he's supposed to have been the wholetime. And thank you Eric for everything
you do. Just my joy,my rock. I love you so much.
I love you too, Mo,and I've told you this before,
(27:19):
nobody else I would rather do thiswith. Yeah, I'm just so proud
of us. Like I know,we didn't get what we wanted out of
this, but we are so muchstronger than they even know we are so
much more stubborn that they than theycan even expect, and so I really
(27:42):
do, truly hope that when thetime comes, after we've worked with a
private investigator and we get the evidencethat we need, and then when that
time comes, I hope that theState of New Mexico finally does the right
thing. And if they don't,then we'll hold them accountable, or we'll
work on getting somebody else elected.Right exactly, if you can't do the
(28:03):
job, get out of the office, yeah, help or get out of
the way, is what I've beensaying. So as part of kind of
our next steps, one of thethings that we're going to be doing in
April is another ten days of Jacob, and it's going to start on April
first, and it's going to gothrough the tenth and from the April first
of the tenth, we're going toask you guys to help listeners to help
(28:26):
us by emailing and calling and fillingout web forms for the Attorney General's office
and asking them to do a properinvestigation on Jacob's case, because what they
did was not an investigation. Theytalked to one person in three and a
half years. I don't understand howthey think that that's a good job.
(28:48):
If I did that level of workat my job, I would have been
fired a long time ago, Likehow could you get away with that?
And everyone's just like this is great. So we're going to need help with
that, and we would love ifyou guys just show up in the numbers
that you showed up for the lastWe're looking to, like I said,
hire a PI as well as potentiallyan attorney to help us. And we're
(29:11):
just going to do everything we canto move forward and figure out what's going
to happen. I guess, butwe appreciate. I appreciate. I'm sure
you do too, Mama. Letyou express your own appreciation. But I
appreciate everybody who has helped us getthis far, and people who don't know
us, people all around the worldwho just heard this story and decided to
(29:33):
help. We. I am soappreciative of that. We I appreciate every
boy that has mentioned Jacob's name,no matter who you are, good,
Thank you and God bless you.I love you all and that will pray
for you. Thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
We're not done. It's a staytuned, Yes,
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