September 17, 2023 • 41 mins
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Twisted Britain put this live panel together at CrimeCon UK. We were joined by Crimepedia and Seeing Red
This panel was a lot of fun we discussed issues in True Crime as well as some of the behind the scenes of podcasting. It was a great time and I want to send my sincerest gratitude to Bob from Twisted Britain for putting this one together.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-consequences-true-crime--4347262/support.
Twisted Britain put this live panel together at CrimeCon UK. We were joined by Crimepedia and Seeing Red
This panel was a lot of fun we discussed issues in True Crime as well as some of the behind the scenes of podcasting. It was a great time and I want to send my sincerest gratitude to Bob from Twisted Britain for putting this one together.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-consequences-true-crime--4347262/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:39):
What you have in front of youis an amassed collection of wonderful podcasters and
Twisted Britain. We of all thissession is entirely made up. I did
this as an excuse to drink beerand have a microphone in my hand,
and we've managed to successfully do that. The doors are not going to close
(01:00):
on this session. They're just goingto allow people to come and go.
If I don't leave, I'm nothaving the leaving. But people can come
in and wants to come in,and they get drunk and they enjoy what
we're doing. We have four podcastsin front of you, four of what
I would say is the epitome ofindependent podcasting in front of you. Myself
An Ali hosts a podcast called TwistedBritain. We have Eric from True True
(01:23):
Consequences. That's much more difficult tosay after five beers, isn't it.
Morgan and Cherry do Crimepedia and alongat the end we're Betan and Mark from
Seeing Red. So Ali and Ihost a podcast called Twisted Britain. Some
hopefully some of you have heard itbefore. I know some of you know
who we are. It's a podcaston true crime with a sprinkling of the
Weird in the cab is is ourtagline, and we record it in the
(01:44):
pub. Hence the reason why we'redoing pints just now. We love what
we do and we're very proud ofit. But we'll get on to why
we do it and the process thatwe go through as we talk through the
session. This session's going to runfor about forty five minutes or until somebody
posts the plug on me, whichevercomes first, or the beer one run
out, So don't you want toduring that time. We're probably going to
(02:07):
talk for about thirteen minutes, butI would like to give you guys the
opportunities to do any questions answered atthe end, and we'll all be one
hundred percent honest with those answers.Any questions, any any question? Morgan,
which finger is that? Never mind? So that's what Twisted Britain is.
Everybody like to give us a synopsisof what is True Consequences. True
Consequences is a true crime advocacy podcastbased in New Mexico. I help families
(02:29):
who are fighting for justice in NewMexico because I'm also fighting for justice from
my baby brother. So I wantedto create a platform that would help people
in my community who are going throughthe same thing as my family's going through.
It's ship when you hand on tohim and he says that and you
look like two drunks in a puband I'll throw it to another trunk.
So I'm Morgan from Crimepedia and Cherryhost it. We are a weekly podcast
(02:51):
where, of course, who's listeningto our theme tune at the moment still
hung I'm hungover, Yeah, Igotta be more excited. But we host
a weekly podcast. I'm based inthe United States, she's based in the
UK. No, so we wedo. We basically rotate each week.
We tell each other at different cases. I would say nine nine percent of
(03:12):
the time she has no idea whatthe case I'm doing. Nine nine percent
of time I have no idea whatcase she's doing. So when we're going
to the case, our reaction isreal and we'd like to get the questions
that we ask each other. It'shopefully what you're asking yourself as you listen.
Cherry tends to we do mostly UKbase cases. She loves old cases.
It doesn't drive me nuts, butI don't know how she does it
(03:35):
because the most recent episode we hadwas from from nineteen forty, which was
recent. That's a new case thatI was like, are you sure you
want to do this? One mightsomebody might be alive from that cherry and
my cases are typically US based,of course, but yeah, I don't
really have a particular We'll come We'regonna come back to you in a saying,
because you guys have got an interestingstory about how you started your podcast.
(03:58):
Come back to that momentarily. Bethonand Mark, Hello, everybody,
good evening, Thank you for havingus here. We are the hosts of
Seeing Red, which is a weeklytrue crime podcast. Take your podcast voice
off your wink. This is weirdto be talking into this, To be
talking into this with an audience isweird. We met at work. Weird
(04:19):
first and foremost friends, but wehave a absolute fascination with all things true
crime. We are predominantly UK based. I would say we do go around
the world a little bit. IfBethan lets me into America. Bethan's doing
a really weird case next week forus, which is so let you talk
about it because it's rogue. Yeah, so sometimes we're not even true crime.
(04:42):
So next week we're just talking aboutthe Titanic and it's sinking and some
of the theories around stuff like that. It's fascinated, isn't it. Yeah,
please join in one hundred percent shoutout us by all means. Yeah.
So, so sometimes there are crimes, sometimes there's not a crime,
or there may have been a crimewhen we talk about We had a listener
who got in touch with us andasked us to cover a case where her
(05:02):
mom had died and actually we hada discussion around was there a case there
or not, and really fascinating.We just tend to just chat to each
other as well. We're similar,so we take it in terms as well
each week and do a different caseeach week. So that's who we are
on the panel in front of you. What is really lovely about coming to
crime Corn It's not only are wesitting in a room of people who I'm
(05:26):
going to say this out loud,probably no more about crime than the people
sitting in front of you. Wejust happened to hit record and you guys
consume what the pish we put out. But we're sitting in an area of
London that's absolutely synonymous with crime orright in the edge of Whitechapel, just
around the corner from Tower Hill,one of the correct way, if I'm
wrong, Alista, one of theonly prisons that ever held a member of
(05:47):
the monarchy. So being here hasa level of kind of interest in the
true crime itself. And then youthrow on top of that people like yourselves
who are interested in consuming the mediathat we produce. And that sounds really
bell endy of me to say that, but that's what it is. And
we have all and Bethan and Markand I were just talking in the pub
(06:10):
across the road, great pub bythe way, Princess of Prussia get over
there. We were talking about howactually we're no different than you guys are.
All we've done is hit record withthe accept Eric obviously has a personal
family statement associated with this podcast.The rest of us are just giving it
a goal. And every time wehit record and sit a microphone in front
(06:33):
of us, and I'll throw thisdown the line. I still ship my
knickers every time we hit record.Are you comfortable with recording? We love
that, you said, nickers beingI think I've gotten in a little bit
more comfortable. It's still I stillget nervous about it, and I still
stumble. I'm highly edited. Sowhat you hear is so much better than
(06:54):
the way I actually sam. WhenI talk, I do get nervous about
how I'm going to fuck something up, because you know you're going to do
it. I'm going to here.I think that we're probably now better at
messing up and not feeling oh mygod, I've messed up and then getting
worse and worse and being upset byit. I think we now would make
a mistake and go cut it,get over it, and then move on.
(07:14):
But I'm definitely less nervous now,how about you. It's always nerve
wracking. For the first I thinkour first ever episode that we recorded,
we'd both been to the pub andhad a few drinks, so that was
a lot easier, and that wassomething I had to not do so much.
It is enjoyable ultimately, and wedo it because we have a love
of it. I think that overridesanything else. But it's a weird feeling
(07:36):
when you do hit record. Ithink if you do a solo podcast,
possibly a little bit more difficult becauseyou are literally talking to yourself, or
that's certainly how it feels. Butfor me and Bethany is just a conversation,
a bit of a chat. Yeah, I think it's all right for
us. With two hundred episodes in, it's an easy, peasy ish.
Yeah. I love it now,But for the first three episodes I was
(08:00):
terrified of the microphone, and youwill remember my pathological fear of it.
Ali and I've known each other sincewe were about seven years old, which
is thirty something years, and we'vebeen best made. But our parents lived
a couple of hundred meters apart inDumblane, and then we went to premy
school and umb Lane together and wegrew up. And obviously the town itself
(08:20):
has a true crime inflection, shallwe say, without going too far into
it. And when I hosted thepodcast originally, I hosted it with Nadine
and I thoroughly enjoyed it, andit had a different feel to what it
does now. And when she hadall change of life circumstances and had to
move on with our career, Igive up the podcast. I questioned her
values and then moved on and Alicame in. And I've always known Alie
(08:43):
as a wonderful storyteller, so Iinvited him along and he came in and
hit his knickers, but actually justtells a wonderful story. And I'll let
you guys answer the you're still scaredwhen you record, but I'll come back
to March's comments about why we doit just in a moment. But you
guys, no, it's kind ofa lot easier, and it's it's easy
(09:03):
for me because every we record onSundays is you know, I get on
and Cherry pops up and I'm basicallyjust telling a story to one of my
absolute best friends. And so it'snice to be able to share that time
with her, and you know thatwe have a shared passion for what we
do, so it doing it withyour best friends just just makes it so
(09:24):
much easier because you're just talking toyour talking to your your friends. It's
just about to say that now it'sexciting. It's I love my job,
but it's a brilliant job. It'san honor to be able to talk about
something for families, and it's anhonor to be able to tell their story.
And so for me, it's I'mnot nervous. I'm not nervous anymore.
It's just the responsibility to make sureI do it and I do it
(09:46):
right. So it's all good.So starting a podcast isn't a difficult thing
to do. You can do itin your phone. Literally, you can
hit recording your phone and you getbroadcast quality media and then you upload it
to I've only put out there andit costs you nothing. You're not going
to get rich podcasting. Well,it's that was a very quick note from
(10:07):
the bust that bubble instantly. Wenone of us here do it to make
a living. Do you like losingmoney? Because that beer wasn't free?
And you can record on a phone, but you literally but it sounds like
you're recorded on a potato for yourfirst few episodes and tell you by a
microphone? Is that what happened?That's the recording on that was one of
your all any time. We ownedthat now as well. We recorded on
(10:31):
a potato, but we genuinely hadoff at my phone, sat there and
we just press record and then stopand then do the next bit and record
and then just pieced it together.It was ridiculous, really, wasn't it.
It was shit. But and nowthey're one of the biggest true crime
podcasts in the UK. How didthat happen? But we're still wondering that
as well, Mark, to behonest, So when you're doing the cases,
(10:54):
and we call them stories rather thancases, because Ali and I like
to tell a story. There's alwaysan interesting way that you start. You
have to find the case and thendecide whether you want to tell it,
And with that comes a bit ofleaning towards favoritism about whether you enjoy the
case or not. And enjoys avery tricky word, and I use it
very lightly there, because you shouldnever enjoy crime. It's a really fucked
(11:18):
up thing to say about humanity.But people are dark and horrible, and
we understood. Oh no, lookat the room I'm sitting in. It's
fine, but I find something fascinatingor interesting. It's much easier to tell
a tale. So one or twoalways stick with you, and one and
two you'll never touch. So I'mgoing to throw it down the line,
quite simply. What's the best caseyou've ever told, and what's one you'll
(11:39):
never ever touch? Okay, Sothe one I will never ever touch will
be the story of James Boulder JamieBoulder. I will never ever tell that
story. I don't think it everneeds to be told ever. Again.
I don't think the two of themever need any can tell our anger again.
Yeah, I would never need anymore airtime and any more breath that
anyone can give them, So wewill never ever cover that case. Probably,
(12:03):
I think for me, the mostemotional case I've ever done is the
case of c J. Davis.If you've been coming to Crime Cone for
a few years, you'll understand whyI did a live episode with CJ's mum
back in twenty twenty or twenty twentyone. And that story I've told so
many times, but still makes myeyes well up when I tell that story,
(12:24):
because there just seems to be anemotional connection between me and his mum
that I don't think we'll ever bebroken. We're still in contact, and
it's a story that just breaks myheart over and over again. And I
will never forget that case. Youcan hear your passion and your voice.
I'm trying not to cry. Yeah, it's just it gets me every single
time. It's a really sad,horrible case, and I wish that I
could we know who did it.We can't prove it. It's one of
(12:48):
those cases and that there's just noevidence to put it forward. And I
wish I could just give her thattiny little bit of ending to her story
for her to heal and move ona little bit, and it's really sad
that I can't do for and Iwish I could have a wine. You'll
be fighting, Yeah, I'll becrying if I drink. I'm want to
ask you at it because yours hasa different premise to ours. Have you
(13:09):
ever tackled an episode and gone,I don't want to do this. It's
the same question, but in adifferent way. I think the first episode
I did, which to go backto the idea of talking to yourself,
that that was one of the hardestepisodes I ever recorded, because it did
feel like I was talking to myself. I think there's a job of telling
the story and editing and having amic that sounds like I'm in a garbage
(13:33):
can. But that was the ToyBox Killer, which is something I regretted
getting into as soon as I started, but it had a huge impact on
my life as a kid because Ilived about seventy miles away from where all
that was happening when it was happening, and our whole state really got shooken
up by it because we had neverhad anything like that happening in our state.
(13:54):
And then on the other side ofit. I interviewed the victim who
escaped him in my kitchen, theone who was the reason he got caught,
and that was I wish I wouldhave just done that instead, because
that was such an inspiring story tohear how she survived. So your highlight
and low light, it's the sameone. It's the same case. Yeah.
So for me, when I pickedcases, a lot of times it's
(14:16):
driven by the family reaching out tome, and so I'm going to make
that my priority. That's number one. And then secondarily, I try to
cover cases that will tell the storyof why the law is so fucked up
in New Mexico, or cases thatillustrate challenges that we face as we're trying
to fight for justice. And thensometimes I just throw in some historical ones
because I need a break for us. Yeah, in terms of cases,
(14:37):
we'd both agreed that we would nevercover. It is James Bulger and I
was a similar age of the perpetratorswhen that happened, and it obviously stayed
with all of us in this country. It's a case Bethan and I think
about often and we talk about itprivately. We would never bring that to
our podcast, just for the reasonsTerry as meant and it just doesn't feel
(15:01):
right. There's too much airtime hasbeen given to that in terms of a
case that has stayed with me.So we recently dipped into our archives and
rereleased an episode when we're on abit of a break, and it was
a case that happened in Birmingham,which is where I'm from in the UK,
and it was a seven year oldboy called Hakim Hussain and it is
(15:22):
a really tough case and the researchand the writing of that case was just
horrific. So he died as aresult of neglect, and I won't go
into lots of details here, butit was a neglectful mother who was a
drug addict, and we tried tohave some sympathy for her even though her
(15:43):
boy died as a result of herneglect. But we talked a lot about
her, We talked a lot aboutdrug addiction, and we got people that
got in touch with us who werein a similar situation in terms of having
family who are struggling with addiction andthe kind of brute all consequences that can
bring. So it was just areally difficult case for us and Hakeen died
(16:04):
in the front garden of his homeovernight. He was lay out there and
it was just, Yeah, acase has absolutely stayed with both of us.
Yeah, really tough, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. I think
(16:25):
for me, it's anything that involveschildren. I really struggle when it involves
children. So there's certain cases,especially when there's sexual insult and abuse that
is involved, that I really couldn'tcover. And then it's you're able to
bring those cases to the show sometimes, but I'm going to give you a
warning and here's what we're talking about. And I think then our listeners can
(16:47):
also realize that as well, thatthey're not the only person who feels like
that's sometimes too much for you toconsume as someone who listens to true crime.
And then I think the case isthat we probably have had the best
reaction to have been very large scale, like huge massacres or large scale disasters
(17:07):
and that sort of thing. Wewere reached out to you by a listener
who's who had a link to theStardust nightclub fire in Ireland and we did
a three part and god, thatwas absolutely horrific. There's quite a few
cases where you find yourself brought totears, but currently there's the inquest on
going, so there's a lot goingon in the media at the moment about
that case. And then the reactionwe also got from that was really incredible
(17:29):
when it makes you realize why youdo it to get those stories out and
have people reach out and say thankyou for bringing that story two people.
Yeah, I love it. There'sa few cases Bob and I would never
touch the Dumblane shootings obviously because they'retoo close to home and things that have
already been covered so much that wedon't feel we can add anything to Like
Jack the Ripper, there's nothing wecould see that hasn't already been said by
(17:53):
someone else, probably in a betterway than we could see it more sober
as well. Yeah, the casesI've enjoyed the most. My favorite case
that I've ever done is still HMSRednought when Virginia Wolf snuck on board and
are you allowed to say black topyea that we can see it. Yeah,
she's snuck on board, blacked up, posing as the Abyssinian royal family
(18:17):
to get a tour of HMS Rednoughtto expose the British Navy, and it
was there was literally there was verylittle crime in the episode. Ali does
a true crime podcast without mentioning crimequite a fucking lot, and he's kind
a phrase crime is coming like hethinks he's George R. R. Martin.
But I told you he's a goodstoryteller. But he's not that fucking
(18:38):
good. The HMS Rednot was yoursecond episode, third episode, and it's
the one that you come back tothat statement that once you've found comfortable behind
the mic, it makes a massivedifference. You can deliver yourself rather than
just a living or a story,because to me, my favorite story I've
ever told was the Great mul AirMystery. It's a story of a guy
(18:59):
that tried to fire up lane atnight based on a bet in a pub,
and anything that starts with those lines, I'm on it. Basically,
there was a storm on Christmas Eveon the Isle of Mall and the island
Mall is a in a shitty partof the North Atlantic and gets it's bas
beautiful but it gets pummeled by wind. So he was sitting neck and McCallan
(19:23):
and somebody the bar went, hcan't use the airstrip tomorrow, too windy,
and he went hold of my McCallanwatched this. It took off in
the night, and they sent andthe plane never returned to the airstrip,
and they sent out this wonderfully massivesearch party, which was probably everybody in
the island, so all of seventeenor eighteen people, and they didn't find
(19:45):
him till four months later, afterthe snow had thought over a branch of
a tree halfway up a hill thatthey definitely already searched. There are speculations
he was involved in a diamond heist, which is the one I liked because
it's the other speculation as he crashesplaying and swam ashore not quite as cool.
So I'm going diamond heist. It'sa completely unsolved crime. The British
(20:07):
Navy put our ship into the Soundof Mall in two thousand and six and
scanned the seabed and found something thatthey thought was the shape of a plane,
but we will never know because it'sthree hundred and something meters deep.
I like that because it's mad theones we'll never touch. It goes without's
saying. Ally's absolutely right. Alleyand I both grew up in Dumbley and
we went to dumble in primary schooland then we went to Dublin High School
(20:30):
and and both of us actually attendedto what I'm not going to say his
name, but we both attended hisboys clubs when we were eleven twelve years
old. So his name will nevercome out of my mouth with the victims
will and this, and I'm goingto draw that back into the really sad
statement into a segue watch this one. Who do you think of when you're
writing? And do you have anissue with perpetrators names being as glamorized as
(20:56):
they are? True crime podcasting ismassive. Well, we've joined and all
of us, I would say,are not anywhere near the biggest downloaded podcasts
in the world. But we doall right, and we're all very proud
of what we do, and we'revery proud of each other as well,
because it is difficult to continue todo it. I can see podcasters in
(21:18):
the room agreeing with me. Butyou are adding to the glamorization of a
horrific subject. How does that sitwith you? We made quite a determined
kind of shift, I would say, maybe two or three years ago,
where our episodes are no longer titledthe person you would probably think of when
(21:40):
you hear of that crime, sothey would have been the name of the
perpetrator. And at the beginning,a lot of our episodes were titled by
that. And the more we didand the more we talked, and the
more we realized that we always endup focusing on those victims and that's always
what we actually think of. Wereally have made that shift now and we
never have title of the episode withthe perpetrator, even if it is a
(22:03):
serial case. So of course thatname is going to be the one name
that everyone knows. We'll always thentry to find a different way to talk
about that person if we can,and to title the episodes because it is.
Yeah, otherwise you are giving thatname more Internet time and more known
about them. Really, yeah,I totally agree. I mean with us,
(22:25):
you can't help if you're doing acase about somebody, you can't help
but mention their name. You know, they're part of the story. Unfortunately,
they are part of the story.But there's ways that you can tell
the story that doesn't glamorize that personand what they did. And first and
foremost, any podcast are worth theirway in Gold knows that this is all
about the victim and the victim's family, and it's all about getting justice and
(22:45):
making things right. And if thatmeans that you end up changing laws,
if that means you end up changingone person's path from listening to your podcast,
then it's been worth every second ofall the research that we do.
So although I don't like talking aboutthe perpetrators, sometimes you have to.
And sometimes it's important too, becauseit's also important to understand where they came
(23:07):
from, because sometimes they do horrificthings, but sometimes they've come from a
horrific place, and you've also gotto look at their backstory and why they
came to do what they've done,and how this story evolved. Because when
you speak to a victim's family's importantthat story is a true representation of what
happened. That's the way we tryand do it. I agree with you,
(23:27):
Cherry. I think it's really importantto not discount the harm and the
damage that was done by that individual. I can get on my soapbox about
this, and I'm not going tojust for the sake of time, but
I have very strong feelings about this, and there's a lot True crime is
changing it is and thank you tothe listeners that are consuming true crime that
is focused on the victim, thatit is focused on the story, which
(23:49):
is this person who was loved andaccepted by their family or not. No
matter what struggles they have, nomatter if they're dealing with addiction or they
are involved in sex work or anyof those other things, they don't deserve
to be diminished. This is theworst day in somebody's life and it needs
(24:10):
to be treated with respect. AndI would just encourage all of you to
vote with your listens. If youhear something that doesn't feel right, don't
let them make money off of that. Change true crime. You can do
it. We're not I mean,we can talk about it, but you
are the ones who are going todo it. Yeah, follow that.
(24:30):
He's absolutely right though it should beand is all about the victims. And
it's easy for it, certainly forus doing historic cases that aren't in living
memory, to slip sometimes, yea, but we try very hard not to
and not glamorizing killers and emphasizing thevictim's play. I think it's a big
(24:52):
part of what we do or tryto do. We've always tried to make
an aspect of never using the fullnames. If we have to name the
I portrayer gone by the second name. Ninety percent of the time, I'll
call them an asshole or they goon my bad bastard list, and I
have a very long bad bastard's list. One I threatened to make a T
shirt with Bob's bad Bastard list onit, and then I realized I had
(25:15):
a six year old that could readwe. I genuinely could do this for
hours, and I'm so thankful foryou guys to join us. I'm going
to throw one more question to you, and then I'll ask you if anybody
else has got questions. If you'reall shy and don't put your hand up,
I can milk this for as longas we fucking want. That's not
a problem. My question before wego to them is did you ever think
(25:37):
you'd be sat on a panel ata crime con in front of an audience
talking about what you do? Absolutelyno, not at all, not at
all. Never thought that it wouldbe lis And We'll love very lucky and
thank all of you for listening andfor promoting our podcasts and helping us with
the work that we do. Wereally all appreciate it. Yeah, I
would say we are just regular peoplethat have that passion for true crime like
(26:00):
you guys. The only difference iswe hit record on a potato At first
it did get better. So yeah, it's it's weird to be up here,
doesn't there, But yeah, it'sreally weird. This is a weird
day for us in lots of ways. It's amazing to meet our listeners.
But yeah, it's really weird isall I can say. Really, but
amazing to be here, but yes, weird. Can you say weird any
(26:22):
more times? But yeah, it'sit is. It's amazing. No,
we didn't. We started this becausewe liked talking and we thought somebody might
want to listen to us talk.And if one person who isn't already our
friend or family member goes and listensto us, we are going to be
so happy. And the first timesomebody said, oh I've listened and I
liked it, and she's selling booksand march, what can I say?
(26:48):
It's just the dizzying heights, Butit is crazy, Like you said,
it is weird. And then wehave you guys come up and that you
say, oh, we listen toyour show, And every single time someone
says that to us, we getthat thrill. We get that little buzz
of thank you like you do,and that's amazing and it is really cool
and it gives away, does it? No? I think for me it's
the same. I'm not comfortable sharingmy private life. I'm a very private
(27:14):
person. So to be here talkingabout things like my brother's case and to
do that on the internet and tohave people recognize me, it's really strange.
But I'm so so grateful for it. And every time somebody tells me
they've listened, or they're subscribed,or they've heard my brother's story, like
it just it helps me know thatall those times I want to quit,
there are actually people that care.And so when you do that to a
podcast where like you are literally makingtheir whole day. So thank you for
(27:37):
listening and caring about these cases.Yeah, well doesn't give a fuck.
Look, I knew from day oneI was give me sitting up here.
There are something magical that I hadinside. I mean, I need to
share with all of you. Butyou're that handsome, untalented, how the
fuck? No, no what?You are all very welcome. I never
thought i'd be here, You're notnot even nearly. But my first crime
(28:02):
Corn was an eye opening experience whenI realized how much people enjoy what we
do, and it was a veryemotional first Crime Carn Drunk. There was
a lot of alcohol involved, butit was lovely to know how much people
appreciate what we do because we lovedoing it. Yeah, I'll go for
the back of that. The Alijoined the podcast about six or seven weeks
(28:26):
before the first Crime Corn and originallyI was booked to come on my own
and I wasn't worried about coming homeone you may have gathered this. I've
not got that much of an issuetalking to people. But I wasn't proud
of the podcast at the time.But when Ali joined, he brought a
new element to it and it revitalizedit. And what people haven't said,
(28:51):
I don't think unless I missed itthere, sorry, is that actually producing
a podcast can be really fucking hard. You can, you can get to
the bottom of up then to go. I can't be asked editing that because
it was shit. But I stillneed to put something out because if you
don't, you just get this absolutefucking nonsense on social media. When people
(29:14):
forget I'm sorry I've gone off onone. When people forget that we've just
had this discussion in the pub ofit two minutes ago. The content that
we provide is provided for free,and we will never ever ask anybody to
do to our podcast, whether that'sbeen following, subscribing to a Patreon,
doing a review. We'll ask forit every week. But at the actual
(29:36):
reward of sitting here and be ableto do this is ridiculous. The ability
to sit here in front of it'sa nice group of people. And actually
I didn't want this room full.I wanted a room of people who were
engaged and interested, and this isexactly what we've got. This is what
I wanted this to be. Andit's lovely that you're all here, and
thank you very much for that.The fact that we're here able to do
(29:57):
it. I provide content for peoplewho are interested, I'm willing to engage
with us. I think that's thething that I would like to say that
is we started this by saying we'rejust normal people that pressed record. But
we are still normal people that pressedrecord. So if you have a favorite
podcast that's here, no matter hownervous you are about speaking to them about
(30:18):
who they and I'm looking at nobodyin particular, just go and speak to
them or message them, because yourthanks and hello means way more than a
Patriot subscription. And I'd love topay my bills off podcasting, but it's
not going to fucking happen. Andwe were saying earlier like how brave it
is as well to come to somethinglike this and to walk up to people
(30:41):
who are complete strangers, but tosay to them, Hi, I listen
to your show is every single timewith Wow, that person's come over and
spoken to us. And we'd benervous to go up to somebody and talk
to a complete stranger. And thepeople who come to crimecom really make us
feel comfortable as well. I absolutelylove engagement, and my favorite way people
(31:03):
engaged with us is they by goingto patreon dot Combeck's last Crypedia We're not
all whores, We're not all horsand for as little as two dollars a
month, Jenny, you told mehe wasn't going to do this, and
you can sign up to their patronby going to forward Slash. Seeing enough
the lawyers, we could genuinely theseven of us at and could probably talk
(31:26):
for three or four hours without abreak, as long as there's enough beer
to keep going and I can stillmake words at the end of that.
I think that is the problem.There's actually I just to the women in
the room actually drinking the same pubas we recorded, and they're shaking their
head at me because they know I'veonly got a couple more beers in me
before I can't actually talk, SoI'm going to go. They have been
(31:48):
in the background of the podcast.When you hear somebody shouting, it's fucking
them. We've killed ten get abeer. Fuck it. Yes, we've
got about ten minutes left. Nowit's up to you. Guys can ask
questions or I can drive these peoplein a certain direction. But if anybody's
got any questions for specific someone makehim stop talking. Thank you. Yeah,
(32:08):
yeah, totally, yeah, pleasedo So the two questions there were,
are there any podcasters you hate?Two Crame podcasts a fucking long list?
And do we have any plans forcollabs? Yes? There are true
Crame podcasters I hate. We alwayshave plans for labs, but Bethan doesn't
(32:29):
answer her messages. I set thesethings up and then something we just don't
do them. But yes, withus, because we've done come Pedia one.
We have we have indeed, andwe will be doing more. And
we were literally saying on the driveup here, that's something we need to
actually get doing, because we sendthese emails and we're like, shall we
do it? And everyone says,yeah, it sounds great and we know
(32:50):
that everyone will love to listen toit, and then six weeks have gone
by and life has happened and wehaven't done it. So yeah, that's
yeah. Yeah, I can fletwith Cherry more than with Mark as well.
Yeah, we've done quite a fewcollabs off of the back of what
we've met at crane Con, andwe've got a few more, hopefully in
(33:14):
the works from this Crane Con.Rich Morter is going to do one with
us to Yep Yep, and theswitch Blade Sisters they're not excited about it
at all, apt you is excitedthan anybody else. Want to answer another
question, I don't know that Ihate anyone other than Morgan, but but
(33:35):
I don't have a lot of respectfor people who blame victims or who sensationalize
and over speculate. So not hate, but there's no respect for ms.
I had a collaboration turned into anotherpodcast, so I don't know if I
want to do more podcast creation.I have three right now, but I
will happily invite all the panelists hereand any other podcasters that want to join
(33:58):
for my collab that turned into ashow called Crime Lines and Consequences with Crimelnes,
So it be the deal. Ithink. For me, it's not
necessarily hate. But when I geta call and it says Captain Garage,
I hate that I have to answer. Sometimes I forget how famous you actually
are. I'm not that famous.I hate answering that call because I know
(34:22):
that no matter what he's calling for, three hours later, I'm still going
to be on that call, andit's going to be something completely different,
and then right before he hangs up, he'll go back to what he actually
was calling for, and then it'sway just what happened in my life.
He released that call as a podcast, probably because that's when how you asked
(34:43):
how we started it started. Imeant to come back to that because actually,
you guys have a funny So youguys didn't meet till last year in
Vegas, first time we've never met. The prodition of podcast I've never met,
and partially we're going to year four. I think, right I'm doing
the podcast yeah, first time,and it was weird because I was just
happened with walking up towards the hotels. How to use microphones, Morgan,
(35:07):
podcasters shouldn't know how to use microphones. There's about here and about here.
No, yeah, just walking up, I'm like, there's Cherry, and
I got excited because I'm like,I see how people get excited to see
her. That was me. Iactually like, oh, that's Cherry.
She gave me your autograph and everything. That's amazing. He sold the autograph.
So you had a question here.If you do this because you want
(35:29):
to make money, one you'll besorely disappointed, and two you're an asshole
because you shouldn't be doing it tomake money. If you make money,
great as a bonus. But whatyou should be doing it for is for
justice, and you should be doingit to spread the word of stories.
Great. If you make a profitof it, that's brilliant. And some
people do it for a full timejob. I'm good for them. But
no, I don't think it's evergoing to make you millions. I don't
(35:50):
think if it's something you're doing todo that, then it's probably not.
That's probably not the thing for you. Yeah, yeah, so I'll happily
put up about that. The waypodcasting works is we record content onto whatever
medium it is, and then weupload it, we edit it, and
we upload it to a server.All of us use different host platforms,
and in with built in with thathost platform is the ability to monetize your
(36:15):
podcast what a wanky word monetizes,and they'll seed adverts on your podcast,
and the most of us will probablyseed between four and six adverts in a
podcast. I hate adverts. Iwork in Telly outside of podcasting, and
I fucking hate adverts that are absolutelyunnecessary but excuse me, that come out
(36:37):
of nowhere, but they pay ourbar tab. There's literally what our adverts
do is pay our bar tab.So they get seeded along and we get
to kick back from that. Someof us, which are much bigger I've
seen read, get to read theget to read their own adverts and make
way more money than we do.And then we get to choose what we
talk about, which I think isbetter because we can then go shall we
(36:58):
or shall we not? And thenwe'd things down if we think it's not
quite us. Whereas somebody let usknow the other week that during the Cannibal
episode, there was an advert thatinvolved breakfast and sausages, and our choice
that would not have been what wewould have chosen to talk about. Oh
fresh, not good. So yeah, that way, that's that for us,
(37:22):
is a more authentic kind of wayfor us really to get that kind
of bonus of we're doing something weenjoy, but we also get something back,
is we do get to choose whatwe're putting on the show and what
we think our listeners might actually careabout as well. Whereas I'll sell fucking
anything that's friends without the horror.By the way, just in case you're
(37:44):
wondering, oh yeah, we hadthat, but we did get addicted to
that. We're probably gonna get atthe plug pooled dollars in the next couple
of minutes. You're right for usto run for a couple of more five
minutes. Thank you very much.So there wasn't a question. I thought
you just wanted another beer. Ithought that's what it was. I'm just
going to put your questions on Mikebecause we are being recorded. Unfortunately we
(38:06):
don't have a rowing mike. Soyour question was Eric, why are you
so good? Yeah, And thenI think your other question was I love
you, Cherry? Can we justget drunk together? Is that similar?
And it give us a yeah,because your podcast is very different to the
other three podcasts that are on thestage, and we are very story based.
(38:27):
And but you have a personal attachmentto this. Not do you set
yourselves apart from our story driven things? But do you does it hurt more
to record? Do you? Areyou invested in what you're doing more than
you think that? We are?Not more than you think we are,
because but your investment is more personal. I think I've really fucking talked around
a question. So well, I'mgoing to answer his question first and then
(38:49):
I'll answer that. Yeah, thankyou. Yeah. Yeah. So Jacob's
case was never investigated properly, neverprosecuted. The killer confessed to killing Jacob,
the confession doesn't exist, there's norecording, there's no supplement or report.
There's nothing that indicates what he confessedto or the circumstances behind it.
(39:09):
So I didn't know any of thisuntil I started looking into the case myself
because I was six years old,my brother died, and I lived through
a bunch of abuse and crazy stuffin the midst of it. But I
created the show because I started seeinga bunch of cases coming through the court
system that were similar to Jacobs andpeople who were getting very light senses for
killing their own kids, and Icouldn't just sit there and watch it continue.
(39:34):
I had to say something through theadvocacy work, his case got real
and he's doing a bloody good jobof it. Yeah, and the emotion
of at that moment answers my questionwithout having me to make pis shop to
make him he's a wonderful man.And when I was asked what I wanted
(39:55):
that of podcasters and pints, Isaid I wanted vote to come him by
per and sit down and just listento us talk pish for an hour.
And I wanted specific people and Ericwas one of the men that I wanted
specifically to come on here because Ireally respect why it does. Unfortunately we
have run out of time. Iwant to say thank you very much for
anybody all of you to come andlisten to us. Thank you you just
(40:17):
genuinely from bottom our hearts were listeningto our podcasts. We're sitting through this
totally planned session. Cheers to you. Absolutely. If you have a drink
in front of you, just giveUS cheers. Cheers, ladies and gentlemen
seeing Red, Hello crime Pedia,True Consequences, and I will leave you,
(40:38):
as always with a thank you,love you bye, thank you,
love you bye,
What you have in front of youis an amassed collection of wonderful podcasters and
Twisted Britain. We of all thissession is entirely made up. I did
this as an excuse to drink beerand have a microphone in my hand,
and we've managed to successfully do that. The doors are not going to close
(01:00):
on this session. They're just goingto allow people to come and go.
If I don't leave, I'm nothaving the leaving. But people can come
in and wants to come in,and they get drunk and they enjoy what
we're doing. We have four podcastsin front of you, four of what
I would say is the epitome ofindependent podcasting in front of you. Myself
An Ali hosts a podcast called TwistedBritain. We have Eric from True True
(01:23):
Consequences. That's much more difficult tosay after five beers, isn't it.
Morgan and Cherry do Crimepedia and alongat the end we're Betan and Mark from
Seeing Red. So Ali and Ihost a podcast called Twisted Britain. Some
hopefully some of you have heard itbefore. I know some of you know
who we are. It's a podcaston true crime with a sprinkling of the
Weird in the cab is is ourtagline, and we record it in the
(01:44):
pub. Hence the reason why we'redoing pints just now. We love what
we do and we're very proud ofit. But we'll get on to why
we do it and the process thatwe go through as we talk through the
session. This session's going to runfor about forty five minutes or until somebody
posts the plug on me, whichevercomes first, or the beer one run
out, So don't you want toduring that time. We're probably going to
(02:07):
talk for about thirteen minutes, butI would like to give you guys the
opportunities to do any questions answered atthe end, and we'll all be one
hundred percent honest with those answers.Any questions, any any question? Morgan,
which finger is that? Never mind? So that's what Twisted Britain is.
Everybody like to give us a synopsisof what is True Consequences. True
Consequences is a true crime advocacy podcastbased in New Mexico. I help families
(02:29):
who are fighting for justice in NewMexico because I'm also fighting for justice from
my baby brother. So I wantedto create a platform that would help people
in my community who are going throughthe same thing as my family's going through.
It's ship when you hand on tohim and he says that and you
look like two drunks in a puband I'll throw it to another trunk.
So I'm Morgan from Crimepedia and Cherryhost it. We are a weekly podcast
(02:51):
where, of course, who's listeningto our theme tune at the moment still
hung I'm hungover, Yeah, Igotta be more excited. But we host
a weekly podcast. I'm based inthe United States, she's based in the
UK. No, so we wedo. We basically rotate each week.
We tell each other at different cases. I would say nine nine percent of
(03:12):
the time she has no idea whatthe case I'm doing. Nine nine percent
of time I have no idea whatcase she's doing. So when we're going
to the case, our reaction isreal and we'd like to get the questions
that we ask each other. It'shopefully what you're asking yourself as you listen.
Cherry tends to we do mostly UKbase cases. She loves old cases.
It doesn't drive me nuts, butI don't know how she does it
(03:35):
because the most recent episode we hadwas from from nineteen forty, which was
recent. That's a new case thatI was like, are you sure you
want to do this? One mightsomebody might be alive from that cherry and
my cases are typically US based,of course, but yeah, I don't
really have a particular We'll come We'regonna come back to you in a saying,
because you guys have got an interestingstory about how you started your podcast.
(03:58):
Come back to that momentarily. Bethonand Mark, Hello, everybody,
good evening, Thank you for havingus here. We are the hosts of
Seeing Red, which is a weeklytrue crime podcast. Take your podcast voice
off your wink. This is weirdto be talking into this, To be
talking into this with an audience isweird. We met at work. Weird
(04:19):
first and foremost friends, but wehave a absolute fascination with all things true
crime. We are predominantly UK based. I would say we do go around
the world a little bit. IfBethan lets me into America. Bethan's doing
a really weird case next week forus, which is so let you talk
about it because it's rogue. Yeah, so sometimes we're not even true crime.
(04:42):
So next week we're just talking aboutthe Titanic and it's sinking and some
of the theories around stuff like that. It's fascinated, isn't it. Yeah,
please join in one hundred percent shoutout us by all means. Yeah.
So, so sometimes there are crimes, sometimes there's not a crime,
or there may have been a crimewhen we talk about We had a listener
who got in touch with us andasked us to cover a case where her
(05:02):
mom had died and actually we hada discussion around was there a case there
or not, and really fascinating.We just tend to just chat to each
other as well. We're similar,so we take it in terms as well
each week and do a different caseeach week. So that's who we are
on the panel in front of you. What is really lovely about coming to
crime Corn It's not only are wesitting in a room of people who I'm
(05:26):
going to say this out loud,probably no more about crime than the people
sitting in front of you. Wejust happened to hit record and you guys
consume what the pish we put out. But we're sitting in an area of
London that's absolutely synonymous with crime orright in the edge of Whitechapel, just
around the corner from Tower Hill,one of the correct way, if I'm
wrong, Alista, one of theonly prisons that ever held a member of
(05:47):
the monarchy. So being here hasa level of kind of interest in the
true crime itself. And then youthrow on top of that people like yourselves
who are interested in consuming the mediathat we produce. And that sounds really
bell endy of me to say that, but that's what it is. And
we have all and Bethan and Markand I were just talking in the pub
(06:10):
across the road, great pub bythe way, Princess of Prussia get over
there. We were talking about howactually we're no different than you guys are.
All we've done is hit record withthe accept Eric obviously has a personal
family statement associated with this podcast.The rest of us are just giving it
a goal. And every time wehit record and sit a microphone in front
(06:33):
of us, and I'll throw thisdown the line. I still ship my
knickers every time we hit record.Are you comfortable with recording? We love
that, you said, nickers beingI think I've gotten in a little bit
more comfortable. It's still I stillget nervous about it, and I still
stumble. I'm highly edited. Sowhat you hear is so much better than
(06:54):
the way I actually sam. WhenI talk, I do get nervous about
how I'm going to fuck something up, because you know you're going to do
it. I'm going to here.I think that we're probably now better at
messing up and not feeling oh mygod, I've messed up and then getting
worse and worse and being upset byit. I think we now would make
a mistake and go cut it,get over it, and then move on.
(07:14):
But I'm definitely less nervous now,how about you. It's always nerve
wracking. For the first I thinkour first ever episode that we recorded,
we'd both been to the pub andhad a few drinks, so that was
a lot easier, and that wassomething I had to not do so much.
It is enjoyable ultimately, and wedo it because we have a love
of it. I think that overridesanything else. But it's a weird feeling
(07:36):
when you do hit record. Ithink if you do a solo podcast,
possibly a little bit more difficult becauseyou are literally talking to yourself, or
that's certainly how it feels. Butfor me and Bethany is just a conversation,
a bit of a chat. Yeah, I think it's all right for
us. With two hundred episodes in, it's an easy, peasy ish.
Yeah. I love it now,But for the first three episodes I was
(08:00):
terrified of the microphone, and youwill remember my pathological fear of it.
Ali and I've known each other sincewe were about seven years old, which
is thirty something years, and we'vebeen best made. But our parents lived
a couple of hundred meters apart inDumblane, and then we went to premy
school and umb Lane together and wegrew up. And obviously the town itself
(08:20):
has a true crime inflection, shallwe say, without going too far into
it. And when I hosted thepodcast originally, I hosted it with Nadine
and I thoroughly enjoyed it, andit had a different feel to what it
does now. And when she hadall change of life circumstances and had to
move on with our career, Igive up the podcast. I questioned her
values and then moved on and Alicame in. And I've always known Alie
(08:43):
as a wonderful storyteller, so Iinvited him along and he came in and
hit his knickers, but actually justtells a wonderful story. And I'll let
you guys answer the you're still scaredwhen you record, but I'll come back
to March's comments about why we doit just in a moment. But you
guys, no, it's kind ofa lot easier, and it's it's easy
(09:03):
for me because every we record onSundays is you know, I get on
and Cherry pops up and I'm basicallyjust telling a story to one of my
absolute best friends. And so it'snice to be able to share that time
with her, and you know thatwe have a shared passion for what we
do, so it doing it withyour best friends just just makes it so
(09:24):
much easier because you're just talking toyour talking to your your friends. It's
just about to say that now it'sexciting. It's I love my job,
but it's a brilliant job. It'san honor to be able to talk about
something for families, and it's anhonor to be able to tell their story.
And so for me, it's I'mnot nervous. I'm not nervous anymore.
It's just the responsibility to make sureI do it and I do it
(09:46):
right. So it's all good.So starting a podcast isn't a difficult thing
to do. You can do itin your phone. Literally, you can
hit recording your phone and you getbroadcast quality media and then you upload it
to I've only put out there andit costs you nothing. You're not going
to get rich podcasting. Well,it's that was a very quick note from
(10:07):
the bust that bubble instantly. Wenone of us here do it to make
a living. Do you like losingmoney? Because that beer wasn't free?
And you can record on a phone, but you literally but it sounds like
you're recorded on a potato for yourfirst few episodes and tell you by a
microphone? Is that what happened?That's the recording on that was one of
your all any time. We ownedthat now as well. We recorded on
(10:31):
a potato, but we genuinely hadoff at my phone, sat there and
we just press record and then stopand then do the next bit and record
and then just pieced it together.It was ridiculous, really, wasn't it.
It was shit. But and nowthey're one of the biggest true crime
podcasts in the UK. How didthat happen? But we're still wondering that
as well, Mark, to behonest, So when you're doing the cases,
(10:54):
and we call them stories rather thancases, because Ali and I like
to tell a story. There's alwaysan interesting way that you start. You
have to find the case and thendecide whether you want to tell it,
And with that comes a bit ofleaning towards favoritism about whether you enjoy the
case or not. And enjoys avery tricky word, and I use it
very lightly there, because you shouldnever enjoy crime. It's a really fucked
(11:18):
up thing to say about humanity.But people are dark and horrible, and
we understood. Oh no, lookat the room I'm sitting in. It's
fine, but I find something fascinatingor interesting. It's much easier to tell
a tale. So one or twoalways stick with you, and one and
two you'll never touch. So I'mgoing to throw it down the line,
quite simply. What's the best caseyou've ever told, and what's one you'll
(11:39):
never ever touch? Okay, Sothe one I will never ever touch will
be the story of James Boulder JamieBoulder. I will never ever tell that
story. I don't think it everneeds to be told ever. Again.
I don't think the two of themever need any can tell our anger again.
Yeah, I would never need anymore airtime and any more breath that
anyone can give them, So wewill never ever cover that case. Probably,
(12:03):
I think for me, the mostemotional case I've ever done is the
case of c J. Davis.If you've been coming to Crime Cone for
a few years, you'll understand whyI did a live episode with CJ's mum
back in twenty twenty or twenty twentyone. And that story I've told so
many times, but still makes myeyes well up when I tell that story,
(12:24):
because there just seems to be anemotional connection between me and his mum
that I don't think we'll ever bebroken. We're still in contact, and
it's a story that just breaks myheart over and over again. And I
will never forget that case. Youcan hear your passion and your voice.
I'm trying not to cry. Yeah, it's just it gets me every single
time. It's a really sad,horrible case, and I wish that I
could we know who did it.We can't prove it. It's one of
(12:48):
those cases and that there's just noevidence to put it forward. And I
wish I could just give her thattiny little bit of ending to her story
for her to heal and move ona little bit, and it's really sad
that I can't do for and Iwish I could have a wine. You'll
be fighting, Yeah, I'll becrying if I drink. I'm want to
ask you at it because yours hasa different premise to ours. Have you
(13:09):
ever tackled an episode and gone,I don't want to do this. It's
the same question, but in adifferent way. I think the first episode
I did, which to go backto the idea of talking to yourself,
that that was one of the hardestepisodes I ever recorded, because it did
feel like I was talking to myself. I think there's a job of telling
the story and editing and having amic that sounds like I'm in a garbage
(13:33):
can. But that was the ToyBox Killer, which is something I regretted
getting into as soon as I started, but it had a huge impact on
my life as a kid because Ilived about seventy miles away from where all
that was happening when it was happening, and our whole state really got shooken
up by it because we had neverhad anything like that happening in our state.
(13:54):
And then on the other side ofit. I interviewed the victim who
escaped him in my kitchen, theone who was the reason he got caught,
and that was I wish I wouldhave just done that instead, because
that was such an inspiring story tohear how she survived. So your highlight
and low light, it's the sameone. It's the same case. Yeah.
So for me, when I pickedcases, a lot of times it's
(14:16):
driven by the family reaching out tome, and so I'm going to make
that my priority. That's number one. And then secondarily, I try to
cover cases that will tell the storyof why the law is so fucked up
in New Mexico, or cases thatillustrate challenges that we face as we're trying
to fight for justice. And thensometimes I just throw in some historical ones
because I need a break for us. Yeah, in terms of cases,
(14:37):
we'd both agreed that we would nevercover. It is James Bulger and I
was a similar age of the perpetratorswhen that happened, and it obviously stayed
with all of us in this country. It's a case Bethan and I think
about often and we talk about itprivately. We would never bring that to
our podcast, just for the reasonsTerry as meant and it just doesn't feel
(15:01):
right. There's too much airtime hasbeen given to that in terms of a
case that has stayed with me.So we recently dipped into our archives and
rereleased an episode when we're on abit of a break, and it was
a case that happened in Birmingham,which is where I'm from in the UK,
and it was a seven year oldboy called Hakim Hussain and it is
(15:22):
a really tough case and the researchand the writing of that case was just
horrific. So he died as aresult of neglect, and I won't go
into lots of details here, butit was a neglectful mother who was a
drug addict, and we tried tohave some sympathy for her even though her
(15:43):
boy died as a result of herneglect. But we talked a lot about
her, We talked a lot aboutdrug addiction, and we got people that
got in touch with us who werein a similar situation in terms of having
family who are struggling with addiction andthe kind of brute all consequences that can
bring. So it was just areally difficult case for us and Hakeen died
(16:04):
in the front garden of his homeovernight. He was lay out there and
it was just, Yeah, acase has absolutely stayed with both of us.
Yeah, really tough, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. I think
(16:25):
for me, it's anything that involveschildren. I really struggle when it involves
children. So there's certain cases,especially when there's sexual insult and abuse that
is involved, that I really couldn'tcover. And then it's you're able to
bring those cases to the show sometimes, but I'm going to give you a
warning and here's what we're talking about. And I think then our listeners can
(16:47):
also realize that as well, thatthey're not the only person who feels like
that's sometimes too much for you toconsume as someone who listens to true crime.
And then I think the case isthat we probably have had the best
reaction to have been very large scale, like huge massacres or large scale disasters
(17:07):
and that sort of thing. Wewere reached out to you by a listener
who's who had a link to theStardust nightclub fire in Ireland and we did
a three part and god, thatwas absolutely horrific. There's quite a few
cases where you find yourself brought totears, but currently there's the inquest on
going, so there's a lot goingon in the media at the moment about
that case. And then the reactionwe also got from that was really incredible
(17:29):
when it makes you realize why youdo it to get those stories out and
have people reach out and say thankyou for bringing that story two people.
Yeah, I love it. There'sa few cases Bob and I would never
touch the Dumblane shootings obviously because they'retoo close to home and things that have
already been covered so much that wedon't feel we can add anything to Like
Jack the Ripper, there's nothing wecould see that hasn't already been said by
(17:53):
someone else, probably in a betterway than we could see it more sober
as well. Yeah, the casesI've enjoyed the most. My favorite case
that I've ever done is still HMSRednought when Virginia Wolf snuck on board and
are you allowed to say black topyea that we can see it. Yeah,
she's snuck on board, blacked up, posing as the Abyssinian royal family
(18:17):
to get a tour of HMS Rednoughtto expose the British Navy, and it
was there was literally there was verylittle crime in the episode. Ali does
a true crime podcast without mentioning crimequite a fucking lot, and he's kind
a phrase crime is coming like hethinks he's George R. R. Martin.
But I told you he's a goodstoryteller. But he's not that fucking
(18:38):
good. The HMS Rednot was yoursecond episode, third episode, and it's
the one that you come back tothat statement that once you've found comfortable behind
the mic, it makes a massivedifference. You can deliver yourself rather than
just a living or a story,because to me, my favorite story I've
ever told was the Great mul AirMystery. It's a story of a guy
(18:59):
that tried to fire up lane atnight based on a bet in a pub,
and anything that starts with those lines, I'm on it. Basically,
there was a storm on Christmas Eveon the Isle of Mall and the island
Mall is a in a shitty partof the North Atlantic and gets it's bas
beautiful but it gets pummeled by wind. So he was sitting neck and McCallan
(19:23):
and somebody the bar went, hcan't use the airstrip tomorrow, too windy,
and he went hold of my McCallanwatched this. It took off in
the night, and they sent andthe plane never returned to the airstrip,
and they sent out this wonderfully massivesearch party, which was probably everybody in
the island, so all of seventeenor eighteen people, and they didn't find
(19:45):
him till four months later, afterthe snow had thought over a branch of
a tree halfway up a hill thatthey definitely already searched. There are speculations
he was involved in a diamond heist, which is the one I liked because
it's the other speculation as he crashesplaying and swam ashore not quite as cool.
So I'm going diamond heist. It'sa completely unsolved crime. The British
(20:07):
Navy put our ship into the Soundof Mall in two thousand and six and
scanned the seabed and found something thatthey thought was the shape of a plane,
but we will never know because it'sthree hundred and something meters deep.
I like that because it's mad theones we'll never touch. It goes without's
saying. Ally's absolutely right. Alleyand I both grew up in Dumbley and
we went to dumble in primary schooland then we went to Dublin High School
(20:30):
and and both of us actually attendedto what I'm not going to say his
name, but we both attended hisboys clubs when we were eleven twelve years
old. So his name will nevercome out of my mouth with the victims
will and this, and I'm goingto draw that back into the really sad
statement into a segue watch this one. Who do you think of when you're
writing? And do you have anissue with perpetrators names being as glamorized as
(20:56):
they are? True crime podcasting ismassive. Well, we've joined and all
of us, I would say,are not anywhere near the biggest downloaded podcasts
in the world. But we doall right, and we're all very proud
of what we do, and we'revery proud of each other as well,
because it is difficult to continue todo it. I can see podcasters in
(21:18):
the room agreeing with me. Butyou are adding to the glamorization of a
horrific subject. How does that sitwith you? We made quite a determined
kind of shift, I would say, maybe two or three years ago,
where our episodes are no longer titledthe person you would probably think of when
(21:40):
you hear of that crime, sothey would have been the name of the
perpetrator. And at the beginning,a lot of our episodes were titled by
that. And the more we didand the more we talked, and the
more we realized that we always endup focusing on those victims and that's always
what we actually think of. Wereally have made that shift now and we
never have title of the episode withthe perpetrator, even if it is a
(22:03):
serial case. So of course thatname is going to be the one name
that everyone knows. We'll always thentry to find a different way to talk
about that person if we can,and to title the episodes because it is.
Yeah, otherwise you are giving thatname more Internet time and more known
about them. Really, yeah,I totally agree. I mean with us,
(22:25):
you can't help if you're doing acase about somebody, you can't help
but mention their name. You know, they're part of the story. Unfortunately,
they are part of the story.But there's ways that you can tell
the story that doesn't glamorize that personand what they did. And first and
foremost, any podcast are worth theirway in Gold knows that this is all
about the victim and the victim's family, and it's all about getting justice and
(22:45):
making things right. And if thatmeans that you end up changing laws,
if that means you end up changingone person's path from listening to your podcast,
then it's been worth every second ofall the research that we do.
So although I don't like talking aboutthe perpetrators, sometimes you have to.
And sometimes it's important too, becauseit's also important to understand where they came
(23:07):
from, because sometimes they do horrificthings, but sometimes they've come from a
horrific place, and you've also gotto look at their backstory and why they
came to do what they've done,and how this story evolved. Because when
you speak to a victim's family's importantthat story is a true representation of what
happened. That's the way we tryand do it. I agree with you,
(23:27):
Cherry. I think it's really importantto not discount the harm and the
damage that was done by that individual. I can get on my soapbox about
this, and I'm not going tojust for the sake of time, but
I have very strong feelings about this, and there's a lot True crime is
changing it is and thank you tothe listeners that are consuming true crime that
is focused on the victim, thatit is focused on the story, which
(23:49):
is this person who was loved andaccepted by their family or not. No
matter what struggles they have, nomatter if they're dealing with addiction or they
are involved in sex work or anyof those other things, they don't deserve
to be diminished. This is theworst day in somebody's life and it needs
(24:10):
to be treated with respect. AndI would just encourage all of you to
vote with your listens. If youhear something that doesn't feel right, don't
let them make money off of that. Change true crime. You can do
it. We're not I mean,we can talk about it, but you
are the ones who are going todo it. Yeah, follow that.
(24:30):
He's absolutely right though it should beand is all about the victims. And
it's easy for it, certainly forus doing historic cases that aren't in living
memory, to slip sometimes, yea, but we try very hard not to
and not glamorizing killers and emphasizing thevictim's play. I think it's a big
(24:52):
part of what we do or tryto do. We've always tried to make
an aspect of never using the fullnames. If we have to name the
I portrayer gone by the second name. Ninety percent of the time, I'll
call them an asshole or they goon my bad bastard list, and I
have a very long bad bastard's list. One I threatened to make a T
shirt with Bob's bad Bastard list onit, and then I realized I had
(25:15):
a six year old that could readwe. I genuinely could do this for
hours, and I'm so thankful foryou guys to join us. I'm going
to throw one more question to you, and then I'll ask you if anybody
else has got questions. If you'reall shy and don't put your hand up,
I can milk this for as longas we fucking want. That's not
a problem. My question before wego to them is did you ever think
(25:37):
you'd be sat on a panel ata crime con in front of an audience
talking about what you do? Absolutelyno, not at all, not at
all. Never thought that it wouldbe lis And We'll love very lucky and
thank all of you for listening andfor promoting our podcasts and helping us with
the work that we do. Wereally all appreciate it. Yeah, I
would say we are just regular peoplethat have that passion for true crime like
(26:00):
you guys. The only difference iswe hit record on a potato At first
it did get better. So yeah, it's it's weird to be up here,
doesn't there, But yeah, it'sreally weird. This is a weird
day for us in lots of ways. It's amazing to meet our listeners.
But yeah, it's really weird isall I can say. Really, but
amazing to be here, but yes, weird. Can you say weird any
(26:22):
more times? But yeah, it'sit is. It's amazing. No,
we didn't. We started this becausewe liked talking and we thought somebody might
want to listen to us talk.And if one person who isn't already our
friend or family member goes and listensto us, we are going to be
so happy. And the first timesomebody said, oh I've listened and I
liked it, and she's selling booksand march, what can I say?
(26:48):
It's just the dizzying heights, Butit is crazy, Like you said,
it is weird. And then wehave you guys come up and that you
say, oh, we listen toyour show, And every single time someone
says that to us, we getthat thrill. We get that little buzz
of thank you like you do,and that's amazing and it is really cool
and it gives away, does it? No? I think for me it's
the same. I'm not comfortable sharingmy private life. I'm a very private
(27:14):
person. So to be here talkingabout things like my brother's case and to
do that on the internet and tohave people recognize me, it's really strange.
But I'm so so grateful for it. And every time somebody tells me
they've listened, or they're subscribed,or they've heard my brother's story, like
it just it helps me know thatall those times I want to quit,
there are actually people that care.And so when you do that to a
podcast where like you are literally makingtheir whole day. So thank you for
(27:37):
listening and caring about these cases.Yeah, well doesn't give a fuck.
Look, I knew from day oneI was give me sitting up here.
There are something magical that I hadinside. I mean, I need to
share with all of you. Butyou're that handsome, untalented, how the
fuck? No, no what?You are all very welcome. I never
thought i'd be here, You're notnot even nearly. But my first crime
(28:02):
Corn was an eye opening experience whenI realized how much people enjoy what we
do, and it was a veryemotional first Crime Carn Drunk. There was
a lot of alcohol involved, butit was lovely to know how much people
appreciate what we do because we lovedoing it. Yeah, I'll go for
the back of that. The Alijoined the podcast about six or seven weeks
(28:26):
before the first Crime Corn and originallyI was booked to come on my own
and I wasn't worried about coming homeone you may have gathered this. I've
not got that much of an issuetalking to people. But I wasn't proud
of the podcast at the time.But when Ali joined, he brought a
new element to it and it revitalizedit. And what people haven't said,
(28:51):
I don't think unless I missed itthere, sorry, is that actually producing
a podcast can be really fucking hard. You can, you can get to
the bottom of up then to go. I can't be asked editing that because
it was shit. But I stillneed to put something out because if you
don't, you just get this absolutefucking nonsense on social media. When people
(29:14):
forget I'm sorry I've gone off onone. When people forget that we've just
had this discussion in the pub ofit two minutes ago. The content that
we provide is provided for free,and we will never ever ask anybody to
do to our podcast, whether that'sbeen following, subscribing to a Patreon,
doing a review. We'll ask forit every week. But at the actual
(29:36):
reward of sitting here and be ableto do this is ridiculous. The ability
to sit here in front of it'sa nice group of people. And actually
I didn't want this room full.I wanted a room of people who were
engaged and interested, and this isexactly what we've got. This is what
I wanted this to be. Andit's lovely that you're all here, and
thank you very much for that.The fact that we're here able to do
(29:57):
it. I provide content for peoplewho are interested, I'm willing to engage
with us. I think that's thething that I would like to say that
is we started this by saying we'rejust normal people that pressed record. But
we are still normal people that pressedrecord. So if you have a favorite
podcast that's here, no matter hownervous you are about speaking to them about
(30:18):
who they and I'm looking at nobodyin particular, just go and speak to
them or message them, because yourthanks and hello means way more than a
Patriot subscription. And I'd love topay my bills off podcasting, but it's
not going to fucking happen. Andwe were saying earlier like how brave it
is as well to come to somethinglike this and to walk up to people
(30:41):
who are complete strangers, but tosay to them, Hi, I listen
to your show is every single timewith Wow, that person's come over and
spoken to us. And we'd benervous to go up to somebody and talk
to a complete stranger. And thepeople who come to crimecom really make us
feel comfortable as well. I absolutelylove engagement, and my favorite way people
(31:03):
engaged with us is they by goingto patreon dot Combeck's last Crypedia We're not
all whores, We're not all horsand for as little as two dollars a
month, Jenny, you told mehe wasn't going to do this, and
you can sign up to their patronby going to forward Slash. Seeing enough
the lawyers, we could genuinely theseven of us at and could probably talk
(31:26):
for three or four hours without abreak, as long as there's enough beer
to keep going and I can stillmake words at the end of that.
I think that is the problem.There's actually I just to the women in
the room actually drinking the same pubas we recorded, and they're shaking their
head at me because they know I'veonly got a couple more beers in me
before I can't actually talk, SoI'm going to go. They have been
(31:48):
in the background of the podcast.When you hear somebody shouting, it's fucking
them. We've killed ten get abeer. Fuck it. Yes, we've
got about ten minutes left. Nowit's up to you. Guys can ask
questions or I can drive these peoplein a certain direction. But if anybody's
got any questions for specific someone makehim stop talking. Thank you. Yeah,
(32:08):
yeah, totally, yeah, pleasedo So the two questions there were,
are there any podcasters you hate?Two Crame podcasts a fucking long list?
And do we have any plans forcollabs? Yes? There are true
Crame podcasters I hate. We alwayshave plans for labs, but Bethan doesn't
(32:29):
answer her messages. I set thesethings up and then something we just don't
do them. But yes, withus, because we've done come Pedia one.
We have we have indeed, andwe will be doing more. And
we were literally saying on the driveup here, that's something we need to
actually get doing, because we sendthese emails and we're like, shall we
do it? And everyone says,yeah, it sounds great and we know
(32:50):
that everyone will love to listen toit, and then six weeks have gone
by and life has happened and wehaven't done it. So yeah, that's
yeah. Yeah, I can fletwith Cherry more than with Mark as well.
Yeah, we've done quite a fewcollabs off of the back of what
we've met at crane Con, andwe've got a few more, hopefully in
(33:14):
the works from this Crane Con.Rich Morter is going to do one with
us to Yep Yep, and theswitch Blade Sisters they're not excited about it
at all, apt you is excitedthan anybody else. Want to answer another
question, I don't know that Ihate anyone other than Morgan, but but
(33:35):
I don't have a lot of respectfor people who blame victims or who sensationalize
and over speculate. So not hate, but there's no respect for ms.
I had a collaboration turned into anotherpodcast, so I don't know if I
want to do more podcast creation.I have three right now, but I
will happily invite all the panelists hereand any other podcasters that want to join
(33:58):
for my collab that turned into ashow called Crime Lines and Consequences with Crimelnes,
So it be the deal. Ithink. For me, it's not
necessarily hate. But when I geta call and it says Captain Garage,
I hate that I have to answer. Sometimes I forget how famous you actually
are. I'm not that famous.I hate answering that call because I know
(34:22):
that no matter what he's calling for, three hours later, I'm still going
to be on that call, andit's going to be something completely different,
and then right before he hangs up, he'll go back to what he actually
was calling for, and then it'sway just what happened in my life.
He released that call as a podcast, probably because that's when how you asked
(34:43):
how we started it started. Imeant to come back to that because actually,
you guys have a funny So youguys didn't meet till last year in
Vegas, first time we've never met. The prodition of podcast I've never met,
and partially we're going to year four. I think, right I'm doing
the podcast yeah, first time,and it was weird because I was just
happened with walking up towards the hotels. How to use microphones, Morgan,
(35:07):
podcasters shouldn't know how to use microphones. There's about here and about here.
No, yeah, just walking up, I'm like, there's Cherry, and
I got excited because I'm like,I see how people get excited to see
her. That was me. Iactually like, oh, that's Cherry.
She gave me your autograph and everything. That's amazing. He sold the autograph.
So you had a question here.If you do this because you want
(35:29):
to make money, one you'll besorely disappointed, and two you're an asshole
because you shouldn't be doing it tomake money. If you make money,
great as a bonus. But whatyou should be doing it for is for
justice, and you should be doingit to spread the word of stories.
Great. If you make a profitof it, that's brilliant. And some
people do it for a full timejob. I'm good for them. But
no, I don't think it's evergoing to make you millions. I don't
(35:50):
think if it's something you're doing todo that, then it's probably not.
That's probably not the thing for you. Yeah, yeah, so I'll happily
put up about that. The waypodcasting works is we record content onto whatever
medium it is, and then weupload it, we edit it, and
we upload it to a server.All of us use different host platforms,
and in with built in with thathost platform is the ability to monetize your
(36:15):
podcast what a wanky word monetizes,and they'll seed adverts on your podcast,
and the most of us will probablyseed between four and six adverts in a
podcast. I hate adverts. Iwork in Telly outside of podcasting, and
I fucking hate adverts that are absolutelyunnecessary but excuse me, that come out
(36:37):
of nowhere, but they pay ourbar tab. There's literally what our adverts
do is pay our bar tab.So they get seeded along and we get
to kick back from that. Someof us, which are much bigger I've
seen read, get to read theget to read their own adverts and make
way more money than we do.And then we get to choose what we
talk about, which I think isbetter because we can then go shall we
(36:58):
or shall we not? And thenwe'd things down if we think it's not
quite us. Whereas somebody let usknow the other week that during the Cannibal
episode, there was an advert thatinvolved breakfast and sausages, and our choice
that would not have been what wewould have chosen to talk about. Oh
fresh, not good. So yeah, that way, that's that for us,
(37:22):
is a more authentic kind of wayfor us really to get that kind
of bonus of we're doing something weenjoy, but we also get something back,
is we do get to choose whatwe're putting on the show and what
we think our listeners might actually careabout as well. Whereas I'll sell fucking
anything that's friends without the horror.By the way, just in case you're
(37:44):
wondering, oh yeah, we hadthat, but we did get addicted to
that. We're probably gonna get atthe plug pooled dollars in the next couple
of minutes. You're right for usto run for a couple of more five
minutes. Thank you very much.So there wasn't a question. I thought
you just wanted another beer. Ithought that's what it was. I'm just
going to put your questions on Mikebecause we are being recorded. Unfortunately we
(38:06):
don't have a rowing mike. Soyour question was Eric, why are you
so good? Yeah, And thenI think your other question was I love
you, Cherry? Can we justget drunk together? Is that similar?
And it give us a yeah,because your podcast is very different to the
other three podcasts that are on thestage, and we are very story based.
(38:27):
And but you have a personal attachmentto this. Not do you set
yourselves apart from our story driven things? But do you does it hurt more
to record? Do you? Areyou invested in what you're doing more than
you think that? We are?Not more than you think we are,
because but your investment is more personal. I think I've really fucking talked around
a question. So well, I'mgoing to answer his question first and then
(38:49):
I'll answer that. Yeah, thankyou. Yeah. Yeah. So Jacob's
case was never investigated properly, neverprosecuted. The killer confessed to killing Jacob,
the confession doesn't exist, there's norecording, there's no supplement or report.
There's nothing that indicates what he confessedto or the circumstances behind it.
(39:09):
So I didn't know any of thisuntil I started looking into the case myself
because I was six years old,my brother died, and I lived through
a bunch of abuse and crazy stuffin the midst of it. But I
created the show because I started seeinga bunch of cases coming through the court
system that were similar to Jacobs andpeople who were getting very light senses for
killing their own kids, and Icouldn't just sit there and watch it continue.
(39:34):
I had to say something through theadvocacy work, his case got real
and he's doing a bloody good jobof it. Yeah, and the emotion
of at that moment answers my questionwithout having me to make pis shop to
make him he's a wonderful man.And when I was asked what I wanted
(39:55):
that of podcasters and pints, Isaid I wanted vote to come him by
per and sit down and just listento us talk pish for an hour.
And I wanted specific people and Ericwas one of the men that I wanted
specifically to come on here because Ireally respect why it does. Unfortunately we
have run out of time. Iwant to say thank you very much for
anybody all of you to come andlisten to us. Thank you you just
(40:17):
genuinely from bottom our hearts were listeningto our podcasts. We're sitting through this
totally planned session. Cheers to you. Absolutely. If you have a drink
in front of you, just giveUS cheers. Cheers, ladies and gentlemen
seeing Red, Hello crime Pedia,True Consequences, and I will leave you,
(40:38):
as always with a thank you,love you bye, thank you,
love you bye,
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