November 19, 2023 • 30 mins
PART ONE
In 2001, 57-year-old Tot Harriman vanished into thin air while on the road in Texas between
Houston and Corpus Christi. But Tot had an incredible life, and it’s a story that deserves to be heard. To understand where Tot was in life at the moment she vanished, you have to understand her journey to get there. This is “The Incredible Life of Tot Harriman, Part One” from Murder, She Told, hosted by Kristen Seavey. Originally published in September 2022.
For sources and photos from this episode, visit: https://murdershetold.com/episodes/totharriman-1
If you have any information on Tot’s disappearance, I encourage you to contact the League City PD at (281) 332-2566.
Quick links to find Murder, She Told:
Apple: https://apple.co/42Zmd5X
Spotify: https://spotify.com/murdershetold
All others and social media: https://www.murdershetold.com/connect
About Murder, She Told:
Murder, She Told is an award-winning true-crime podcast created and hosted by victim’s advocate, Kristen Seavey, that dives into the lesser-known cold cases and true crime stories from New England and beyond. Murder, She Told uses investigative and detailed storytelling, often weaving in original interviews with the people closest to the case. Rooted in deep research, straightforward narratives, and the victims and their families at the center of every story, Murder, She Told will speak to any listener no matter where they call home.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-consequences-true-crime--4347262/support.
In 2001, 57-year-old Tot Harriman vanished into thin air while on the road in Texas between
Houston and Corpus Christi. But Tot had an incredible life, and it’s a story that deserves to be heard. To understand where Tot was in life at the moment she vanished, you have to understand her journey to get there. This is “The Incredible Life of Tot Harriman, Part One” from Murder, She Told, hosted by Kristen Seavey. Originally published in September 2022.
For sources and photos from this episode, visit: https://murdershetold.com/episodes/totharriman-1
If you have any information on Tot’s disappearance, I encourage you to contact the League City PD at (281) 332-2566.
Quick links to find Murder, She Told:
Apple: https://apple.co/42Zmd5X
Spotify: https://spotify.com/murdershetold
All others and social media: https://www.murdershetold.com/connect
About Murder, She Told:
Murder, She Told is an award-winning true-crime podcast created and hosted by victim’s advocate, Kristen Seavey, that dives into the lesser-known cold cases and true crime stories from New England and beyond. Murder, She Told uses investigative and detailed storytelling, often weaving in original interviews with the people closest to the case. Rooted in deep research, straightforward narratives, and the victims and their families at the center of every story, Murder, She Told will speak to any listener no matter where they call home.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-consequences-true-crime--4347262/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hay True Advocates. My name isKristin Sevie from the podcast Murder She Told,
and I'm coming all the way fromMaine to share this case with you.
In two thousand and one, fiftyseven year old taught Tran Harriman vanished
in her car while on the roadin Texas between Houston and her destination of
Corpus Christie. Her family fought toothand nail to keep their mom's case in
(00:24):
the spotlight, but without clues pointingto an answer about what happened to Tot,
the trail eventually went cold. ButTot had an incredible life, and
to understand where Tot was in herlife the moment she disappeared, you have
to understand her journey to get there. This is a harrowing story of survival,
(00:44):
love, and the strength of ahuman spirit. I'm Kristin Sevie,
and this is true Consequences. TotHarriman had always lived by the water,
(01:17):
from the lush banks of the SaigonRiver to the rocky beaches of Mainz Casco
Bay and the warm shallows of theGulf of Mexico. She never strayed far
from the shore. At the ageof fifty seven, Tot was searching for
a new beachside home. The perfectspot would have a view of the Gulf
and would be a short driving distancefrom her children and grandchildren. Traveling down
(01:41):
a two lane country road in Texas, Tot searched the horizon for a peak
of the ocean that would soon appearin her window. The drive from Houston
to Corpus Christie would take nearly fourhours, and she'd chosen the scenic route.
Whispers of light were already emerging inthe morning sky and dancing across the
car's white leather seats. It wasthe peak of summer. The days were
(02:05):
long and the temperatures were high,but it was comfortable inside the car.
A gentle current of ac brushed againstTot's face and fluttered through her short black
hair, which was beginning to showstreaks of silver. Though she dressed casually
in shorts and a T shirt,she'd still warn some of her trademark jewelry.
Seven gold bracelets jingled on her wristas her hands rocked steadily on the
(02:28):
wheel. As her maroon sedan cruiseddown the quiet road, Tot's mind drifted
to her family, Her thirty fiveyear old son had been half asleep when
she kissed him goodbye earlier that morning. Once she moved to Texas, she'd
be seeing much more of him.She had an appointment with a Reeltor scheduled
for the next day, and ifall went well, she'd soon own a
(02:51):
home in Corpus Christie and would bemaking the drive back and forth to Houston
regularly. She looked forward to spendingmore time with her family while as making
new connections. Perhaps she would teachher grandchildren to fish on one of the
coast's balmy bays, or maybe she'dcontribute to the Vietnamese community in her new
city. But Tot would never getthe chance to live out these plans.
(03:14):
Somewhere along Route thirty five, herstory would be cut short, or rather
it would dissolve into a grim mysterywith no clear ending. Tot was born
in Vietnam in February of nineteen fortyfour and given the name Tran t Tot.
Tran is her family name, andt is her middle name. She
(03:35):
grew up in the southern part ofthe country, in a city outside Saigon
called Te Nin. It was twentyyears before the United States would enter the
conflict with North Vietnam's communist forces.At the time of Tot's birth, Vietnam
was under French control, but duringWorld War II, Nazi Germany had taken
over France, weakening its power acrossthe globe. Taking advantage of this vulnerability,
(04:00):
Japan challenged French rule of Vietnam withlittle resistance. In March of nineteen
forty five, when Tot was justa baby, Japanese troops carried out a
coup against French authorities and took controlof Vietnam, but the independence was short
lived. Just months later, Japanwas defeated by the Allies in World War
II. Following this loss, Francebegan reasserting their power over Vietnam, though
(04:27):
this time it was met with resistancefrom communist forces strengthening in the north.
As power hungry leaders struggled for controlof Vietnam, Vietnamese families struggled to survive
without stable leadership. Systems of education, medical care, and food supply were
upended. Caught in the turmoil,Todt only received a basic education before leaving
(04:51):
school in the second grade to helpsupport her family. Her father died while
she was a child, and Taughtentered into an ar arranged marriage with a
Vietnamese military officer at a young ageof fourteen. The union was likely to
alleviate the financial burden on her mother. This is Tot's son, Chin c.
(05:11):
My mom. She was really strong. You know, she was only
four foot eleven, but she wasdense, like all muscled because when she
was really young, one of theways that people made a live and commonly
in Vietnam was to fire bricks,and you know, they would take the
clay, cut it out of theriver, use the leftovers from the rice
(05:33):
harvest to fire the clay. Andso when she was little, after she
left school, one of the thingsshe would do was haul that clay to
be fired. She was a veryhard worker. And I remember we had
a neighbor and he would always tryand pick her up, and he was
just always in awe of how strongshe was. And sometimes she'd flex her
(05:54):
biceps at parties. It's kind offunny. When Todd was twenty, the
Vietnam War between the US backed Southand the Communists led North officially began,
and two years later, at theage of twenty two, Tot gave birth
to her first son, Men.That same year, her husband was killed
in the war. Tot moved withher infant son from their country village to
(06:17):
the city of Taynin, where shebegan working as a housekeeper for the rich.
In the spacious kitchens of wealthier women, Tot developed a passion for cooking.
She took pleasure in the small joys, the aroma of broth wafting from
potts, the satisfying crunch of greenonions splitting against a blade. Gifted with
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wisdom beyond her years, Tot knewthat to endure life's hardships, she must
also savor its blessings. It wasnineteen sixty eight, two years after the
birth of Tot's son, and thenumber of American troops in Vietnam had risen
exponentially. Over half a million werefighting alongside South Vietnamese soldiers to do my
(07:00):
feet North Vietnam's communist regime. Itwas during this time that Todd bumped into
an American soldier while biking through tanaIn. Clint and Harriman, known as
Clint to his friends, was aseasoned US Merchant Marine officer who'd been described
by one newspaper as a boisterous bullmoose of a man with salt and pepper
(07:21):
hair. My dad was an oldschool American. He was born in New
York, pre Depression era. Helived through the Depression as a young man,
an immigrant as well, an Italianimmigrant, you know, at that
time when there was a lot ofItalian and Irish immigration in New York City,
and he just always just doing thingsto the max. When he was
(07:44):
younger, he would get in alot of trouble, you know, sort
of like reminds me of those storiesthat you'd hear about America at that time.
Just a little bit wild, alittle bit free road motorcycles, you
know. And then eventually he gotinto the service sort of by accident,
and he ended up falling in lovewith the ocean and falling in love with
being on the water and being onships, and so he decided that he'd
(08:07):
make a career of being in aservice. And he was fun to be
around. He could talk your earoff for hours, tell you stories about
all the things he'd seen, aboutall the bullets he'd dodged. He was
kind of larger than life. Afterserving in both World War Two and the
Korean War, he'd recently arrived inVietnam, where he worked in logistics transporting
(08:28):
ammunition from the United States. Clintwas in his late forties when he met
twenty four year old Todt. DespiteTot's broken bike, the collision was a
happy accident. The couple fell inlove at first sight. The next day,
Clint returned to the place they'd met. He'd hoped to impress her with
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a gift of a new bike.It was a kind gesture, but Tot
remained skeptical of the man who wastwo decades older than her and who towered
above her four foot eleven frame.Clint persisted courting her for a year,
when at last she determined that hewas more than, as she would later
phrase it, just another American foolingaround. She finally accepted his proposal.
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They married in a traditional Vietnamese ceremonyofficiated by a village chief, and built
a house in Tannin's countryside. Itwas a special place for them, as
Clint would later say, quote areally divine home. Outside of Tot and
Clint's love story, the bloody VietnamWar raged on for six years. The
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couple lived apart, seeing each otheronly when Clint's work brought him back.
They had an apartment in Saigon thathe could easily get to when he was
in town. Otherwise, Tot stayedin the house they'd built in the country.
She was, as Clint described her, a country girl. Although their
separation was less than ideal, Totremained optimistic that there was something better around
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the corner. December tenth, nineteenseventy, Tot gave birth to her and
Clint's first child, a daughter namedtoo Hum, which roughly translates to Autumn
Rose. Clint was rarely in SouthVietnam to see her, but he brought
back new American clothes for his growingdaughter whenever he could. By the spring
of nineteen seventy five, US troopshad almost fully withdrawn from Vietnam and Saigone,
(10:24):
their final stronghold, was going totopple, Clint said, referring to
the native supporters of South Vietnam.Like Tot, it was the end of
life as they knew it over there. Tot's first marriage to a South Vietnamese
military officer, as well as hercurrent marriage to Clint, an American soldier
defending the South, would make hera target once the North took over.
(10:46):
He believed that she might be killedor at the least separated from her children.
Tot faced a difficult situation. Herdaughter with Clint, who would look
only half Vietnamese, wouldn't be safein Vietnam. But Tot couldn't bear to
leave her family and take her oldestson away from his home. She made
(11:07):
a heart wrenching decision to entrust herdaughter with Clint, who would take her
to America while she stayed in Vietnamwith her son and her family, no
matter the consequences. Clint was inNew York at this pivotal moment in history.
I got hold of the port captainand practically begged him to get me
out of there, Clint said ofhis difficult journey back to Vietnam. After
(11:31):
some negotiations, he was approved totravel from New York to Saigon on the
U. S n S. GreenvilleVictory. He later said, it was
the only ship that I could havegotten on. He called Tot and made
plans to meet her at their apartmentin Saigon to take his daughter to her
new home. Just before Clint left, he slipped on a piece of ice
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and broke his leg. When theswelling became unmanageable, he went to a
Navy doctor, where he was toldin no uncertain terms that he wasn't fit
for duty. Bullshit, Clint respondedto the doctor, I have to make
this trip. By explaining that hiswife and children were in danger, he
was able to convince the disapproving doctorto let him go. His leg wrapped
(12:16):
in a cast and in extreme pain, Clint was carried up the gangway on
the back of another officer. Backin Tae Nin, Tot boarded a bus
to Saigone with her daughter, whowas now four. As they headed south
down the highway, Tot gazed intoa blur of passing trees and wondered what
the next few days would hold.Vietnam had been in various states of conflict
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her entire life, but had nevergotten to a point where she needed to
evacuate. She thought of Clint's voiceon the phone, how urgent he'd sounded
about getting them out. The planwas for Clint and too Hum to travel
to America on the Greenville victory,and while the thought of being separated from
to U Hum was heart wrenching,Tot trusted her husband's intuition. It had
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been quite some time since they'd lastseen him, and two Hum had grown
significantly. Tot ran a hand throughher daughter's hair, which had a strawberry
blonde hue she'd inherited from Clint.The girl's expression was peaceful as she looked
out at the passing cars. Allshe knew was that she'd be soon reunited
with her father. The bus slowedto a halt. A roadblock had cut
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off their usual route to Saigon,so Tot and too Hum headed to the
river instead. Before long, theywere squeezed tightly against eight additional passengers in
a tiny two person boat. Asthey traveled down stream towards Saigon, rockets
began plummeting from the sky, piercingthe surface of the river and capsizing neighboring
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boats. Tot held her daughter close. She could feel the glares of Communist
soldiers peering through the trees. TuHum's hair was the telltale sign of an
American father, the sight of whichwould make her a target. Tot shielded
the four year old's face with awide straw hat. Their boat was stopped
several times. Armed officers prodded Totwith questions. They were skeptical of how
(14:13):
the concealed child could possibly be asleepamidst the chaos, Tot held her face
steady and asserted that her daughter wasextremely sick. Thanks to her cunning,
the soldiers permitted them to proceed.Clint continued to work while on the ship,
causing his broken leg to swell furtherand his cast to fall apart.
While anchored in Thailand, he receivedword that evacuation had begun in Vietnam.
(14:39):
With the excuse of replacing his wornout cast, Clint was permitted to deboard
the ship in Saigon. There hemade his way to the apartment, where
he was greeted by his wife anddaughter. Despite what she'd gone through on
the river, Tot remained surprisingly optimistic. My wife was sort of latti Da,
he later said. Out of hernonchalant attitude, she maintained that things
(15:03):
would soon go back to normal asthey always had. Presumably, the location
of their apartment fell under some sortof threat as they stayed the night at
the Hotel Majestic, one of thecity's most luxurious accommodations, but even the
building's sprawling marble floors and ornate chandelierscouldn't protect them. Just past midnight,
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the family woke with a start tothe boom of artillery shells striking the hotel.
They gathered their belongings and made arrangementsto leave as soon as possible.
The ship Clint had traveled from Americaon the Greenville Victory was no longer in
Saigon. It moved fifty miles southeastto the port city of Vung Tau,
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and they had to make a harrowingtrip from Saigon to Vung Tao by land.
Clint arranged for a car to takethem in the early hours of the
morning. As the car weaved throughhighway traffic, Tot squeezed her daughter's hand.
She felt confident they'd be reunited,but wasn't sure how long it would
take. Once too Hum and Clintwere safely aboard, she'd head back home
(16:08):
to be with men. Approaching theharbor's entrance, Clint and Tot noticed abandoned
motor scooters and debris scattered across theroad. It was a dead end.
The ship was visible in the distance, but the path was blocked by a
young Communist soldier. Clint later recalled, when we got to this barricade,
this soldier struck his rifle in thedriver's window. My wife and child and
(16:33):
myself are sitting in the back,and the soldier said get out and walk.
By that point, Clint's leg hadswollen to twice its original size.
He wouldn't be able to walk thedistance to the ship. The road was
falling into pandemonium, and they instructedthe driver to turn back. They'd try
to catch another boat in Saigone,then transfer on to the Greenville Victory.
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Elsewhere, according to Clint, thedriver wheel the car around and just missed
a truck by an extra coat ofpaint. Around every turn, communist soldiers
were landing helicopters, brandishing weapons andcreating barricades. Clint held a grenade in
his hand, silently planning to useit should they come under attack. We
(17:18):
could all get it right here onthe road at any minute, Clint told
Tot. She smiled back and said, well, darling, at least we'll
all die together. Clint wasn't certainshe even knew what she was saying,
but the sentiment emboldened him. Quoteshe had goddamn courage, and that gave
me great courage. Clint abandoned theidea that they would all be able to
(17:48):
make it to Vung Tao by land, so they returned to Sigon to find
a way to get there by boat. After weaving between the road and the
jungle for miles, they returned toSaigon's newport harbor. Clint quickly kissed her
goodbye. There was no time tolinger. Clint later said, I went
down the longest gangway in the worldwith this friggin leg, which is now
(18:10):
the size of a sewer pipe.When he and Tu Hum made it to
the ship, they were denied entryby the captain and forced to return to
the harbor's office. Clint found theofficer in charge and told him what happened.
This friggin guy doesn't want to takeme down the river, he said.
The officer escorted Clint and to Humback down the gangway, and they
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were finally permitted to board, andmy father, maybe sort of anticipating a
change of heart, gave her somepapers that said that she was married to
an American serviceman, and some papersthat would allow her to get onto a
base. And he gave her thosepapers and he said, you know,
if you need these, use them. And they parted ways, thinking maybe
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they'd never see each other again.Todd stood on the pier, holding her
face in an assured smile as Clintwaved from the deck. It was his
signal that he and two hum weresettled and that Tot could head home.
But her body was frozen. Asthe ship's silhouette vanished in the distance,
she realized Clint had been right.The conflict was far more dire than she'd
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assumed. Her limbs went numb withthe fear, and she collapsed. I
couldn't take it anymore, she'd laterrecall. My heart was broken. The
Pioneer Contender approached Vung Tao, andthe ship's captain refused to dock the ship.
He was in a hurry and hadno time to stop. They would
have to make a transfer while theship was underway, and the transfer would
(19:42):
not be easy, especially with Clint'sbroken leg. Coordinated by radio, a
tiny lifeboat paced the large ship whilea narrow gangway was lowered over the lifeboat.
Sharp pulses of pain shot through Clint'sleg with every step as he descended
this steep plankway that was being rockedby the top of the bay. Noticing
(20:04):
his struggle, an American soldier calledfrom below, offering to catch too Hum
so Clint could more easily make therest of the way down. Clint later
said, I took that little fouryear old girl and threw her down there
like a bag of grain, agood long drop to like fifteen feet,
and he just caught her like abasketball. The lifeboat brought them back to
(20:27):
the harbor they'd been forced to abandonearlier that morning, and at last they
boarded the Greenville Victory, securing theirsafe passage out of Vietnam. You know
my mom, she lived in asmall village. I think she always saw
herself as being from them, andher family was there. She thought the
(20:47):
center of her world was there.She also knew that my sister would be
persecuted, so her first thought wasI need to get her to a place
where she can grow up safely.Her idea was that she would just leave
and go back home to her smallvillage in Taynin. And you hear things
about mothers and their children. Ithink it was just too much for her
(21:12):
to leave her daughter. Tot decidedto leave Vietnam and join Clint in America,
but Clint wouldn't be there to helpher get out. Meanwhile, Tot
made her way back to Taynin,where she found her son and gathered a
few belongings. Leaving once more forSaigon, Todd found that this time the
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road had been entirely cut off.If they were going to reach the evacuation
ships, they'd have to travel byfoot, Twigs snapping beneath her shoes toat
charged through the jungle, a suitcasein one hand in her son's sweaty palm
in the other. They would hiketwenty three miles before reaching the city.
Sweat and humidity clung to their clothes, weighing down each step. Mosquitoes buzzed
(21:59):
into tormenting clusters around their heads.The terrain was challenging for even the most
experienced soldiers to navigate, but somehowTaut and men found a way outside of
the jungle canopy. The air waslighter, and for a moment they could
exhale, But as they approached thecity, a buzz louder than the mosquitoes
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roared in the streets. Sigon wasswarming with people, in a scene Tot
described as bees sucking on honey.Communist takeover was imminent, and everyone wanted
to escape before it was too late. Crowds pressed up against the gates of
the US embassy. Tot decided totake a different approach. She'd spent the
(22:42):
last of her money on a cabto Saigon's Newport Harbor, the same place
Clint and two hum had previously departedfrom. Upon arrival, Tot and men
were granted access to a warehouse servingas a makeshift waiting room. Heat rose
from hundreds of anxious bodies and radiatedfrom the metal ceiling, but at least
(23:03):
there was stillness. Clint had beenable to make arrangements with the base commander,
Colonel Vong, for taut and minsafepassage. Clint later said she was
the only Vietnamese woman besides the oneswho worked there, that had a pass
to get into that base, butshe had this personal document about the size
of the Declaration of Independence with ColonelVong's signature on it. She could get
(23:26):
in anywhere with that pass because hewas the big law there. Thanks to
the pass, they'd been granted passageon the Buhun Commander, the last ship
out of Saigon. On the morningof April twenty ninth, nineteen seventy five,
a stern voice bellowed from military radios. The temperature in Saigon is one
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hundred and five degrees and rising,followed by music Irving Berlin's White Christmas Bing.
Crosby's crooning would normally evoke memories ofsnow lined streets and glowing Christmas trees,
but that spring morning the song tookon a new meaning. It signaled
that the final phase of Saigon's evacuationhad begun. In the Fall of Sagon
(24:11):
in nineteen seventy five, when allthose things but that you've seen maybe in
textbooks and history books, of thehelicopters landing on the embassy and people fighting
to get on them, she wasthere, and she went to the embassy,
but knew that there's no way atthat time she'd ever be able to
get on any sort of aircraft oranything that was leaving there. So she
made her way to the wharfs,and she was lucky enough to get off
(24:33):
on the last frigate to leave Vietnam. Military helicopters descended from the sky,
gathering evacuees from all over the city. At Newport Harbor, Todd and men
boarded the Boo Hung Pioneer along withthousands of other refugees. Every crevice of
the overcrowded ship was occupied, butthere was still more clamoring to get on.
(24:57):
Todd watched as they seperately climbed laddersand hung from cargo nets. It
was heartbreaking, she would later say. She remembered men pulling themselves onto the
ship, only to jump back offwhen they discovered their wives hadn't made it.
The memory haunted her for decades.Eventually, the loaded ship made it
(25:18):
out of the harbor and into theopen sea. They'd escaped just in time.
Back in Vietnam, army tanks cruisedthrough the streets, bursting through palace
gates to assert Communist rule. Thebeautiful home Taught and Clint had built,
and Taynin would soon be overtaken.As Clint had predicted, nothing would ever
(25:40):
be the same. In just amatter of days, Man's life had been
forever transformed. He'd been uprooted fromhis friends, his school, and his
family. With little understanding of whythey had to leave it all behind.
He begged Tot to take him backto his grandmother, to their home in
the country. Is all he'd everknown. Weary with fatigue, Tot looked
(26:03):
into her son's frightened eyes and remindedhim of their goal. We have to
find your sister. Thanks to Clint'smilitary connections, Tot and men were permitted
to rest in the owner's cabin.It had been several days since the family
separated, and things were finally goingto plan. On the Boo Hung Pioneer,
(26:25):
Tot and Min received an update thattoo, Hum and Clint were safe.
At last, they could exhale.It would be a long summer,
but an end was in sight.The walls of their quarters hushed the chaos
on the deck, and eventually oceanwaves lulled them into a long awaited sleep.
After docking in the Philippines, Totand Min traveled via airplane to the
(26:48):
US. They touched down in Pennsylvaniain late May of nineteen seventy five and
were greeted with fanfare. Hundreds ofAmericans were waiting for them at the airport,
waving flags and holding homemade signs.After words of welcome from local officials
and a performance by the high schoolmarching band, they were brought to a
refugee camp in nearby Indian town Gap. Over the course of a few months,
(27:12):
the camp's population swelled to over twentythousand refugees. Everyone was provided with
fresh linens, new toothbrushes, andplenty of food, comforts that many had
gone without for months. Taught andMen were housed in military barracks alongside other
families from Vietnam and Cambodia. Summerdays stretched on as refugees waited for sponsorship
(27:37):
approval. Everyone did what they coulddo to enjoy their time in limbo.
Children played outside freely, finally savefrom the threats of combat. On the
fourth of July, many took partin a celebratory parade, waving flags and
singing along to God Bless America.That evening, people pulled out instruments they'd
carried from home and brought overseas,and groups gathered in dancing to traditional Vietnamese
(28:02):
music. Alongside the uncertainty they'd harboredfor months, something else was stirring in
the air, a sense of excitementfor what was to come in a new
country. By the end of thatsummer, tot and Men were cleared to
leave the camp. They traveled crosscountry to Lake Tahoe, Nevada, where
they reunited with Clint and two humfor the first time they were all safe
(28:26):
and together as a family. Clintspent the summer on a mission in Cambodia,
rescuing an American merchant ship that hadbeen captured by Communist forces, and
because of his valor, he washonored by President Gerald Ford with the Merchant
Marine Distinguished Service Medal and was namedMerchant Marine Mariner of the Year in nineteen
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seventy five. The peaceful lake seemedworlds apart from Saigon's tumultuous harbors. Pine
scented air filled their lungs, sunlightseeped into their skin, and cool mountain
breeze danced in their hair. ClintonTodt smiled as they watched the children splash
in the shallows. Their treacherous journeywas over at last. I think by
(29:10):
the time they came out of thewar, it just seems so much.
They'd survived so much. It's likea relationship forged in fire, and you
just you can never separate them.My name is Kristen Sevie, and thank
you so much for joining me.If you like what you heard and you
(29:32):
want more, you can find mypodcast Murder, she told, on any
platform. I'll see you again forthe conclusion of tot story in part two.
If you have any information about thedisappearance of Tot Harriman, I encourage
you to contact the Leak City PoliceDepartment at two eight one three three two
two five six six. A veryspecial thanks to Chinsea for sharing his memories
(29:55):
with us. A detailed list ofsources and photos can be found at murder,
she told dot com. Thank youfor listening, and stay safe New Mexico.
Hay True Advocates. My name isKristin Sevie from the podcast Murder She Told,
and I'm coming all the way fromMaine to share this case with you.
In two thousand and one, fiftyseven year old taught Tran Harriman vanished
in her car while on the roadin Texas between Houston and her destination of
Corpus Christie. Her family fought toothand nail to keep their mom's case in
(00:24):
the spotlight, but without clues pointingto an answer about what happened to Tot,
the trail eventually went cold. ButTot had an incredible life, and
to understand where Tot was in herlife the moment she disappeared, you have
to understand her journey to get there. This is a harrowing story of survival,
(00:44):
love, and the strength of ahuman spirit. I'm Kristin Sevie,
and this is true Consequences. TotHarriman had always lived by the water,
(01:17):
from the lush banks of the SaigonRiver to the rocky beaches of Mainz Casco
Bay and the warm shallows of theGulf of Mexico. She never strayed far
from the shore. At the ageof fifty seven, Tot was searching for
a new beachside home. The perfectspot would have a view of the Gulf
and would be a short driving distancefrom her children and grandchildren. Traveling down
(01:41):
a two lane country road in Texas, Tot searched the horizon for a peak
of the ocean that would soon appearin her window. The drive from Houston
to Corpus Christie would take nearly fourhours, and she'd chosen the scenic route.
Whispers of light were already emerging inthe morning sky and dancing across the
car's white leather seats. It wasthe peak of summer. The days were
(02:05):
long and the temperatures were high,but it was comfortable inside the car.
A gentle current of ac brushed againstTot's face and fluttered through her short black
hair, which was beginning to showstreaks of silver. Though she dressed casually
in shorts and a T shirt,she'd still warn some of her trademark jewelry.
Seven gold bracelets jingled on her wristas her hands rocked steadily on the
(02:28):
wheel. As her maroon sedan cruiseddown the quiet road, Tot's mind drifted
to her family, Her thirty fiveyear old son had been half asleep when
she kissed him goodbye earlier that morning. Once she moved to Texas, she'd
be seeing much more of him.She had an appointment with a Reeltor scheduled
for the next day, and ifall went well, she'd soon own a
(02:51):
home in Corpus Christie and would bemaking the drive back and forth to Houston
regularly. She looked forward to spendingmore time with her family while as making
new connections. Perhaps she would teachher grandchildren to fish on one of the
coast's balmy bays, or maybe she'dcontribute to the Vietnamese community in her new
city. But Tot would never getthe chance to live out these plans.
(03:14):
Somewhere along Route thirty five, herstory would be cut short, or rather
it would dissolve into a grim mysterywith no clear ending. Tot was born
in Vietnam in February of nineteen fortyfour and given the name Tran t Tot.
Tran is her family name, andt is her middle name. She
(03:35):
grew up in the southern part ofthe country, in a city outside Saigon
called Te Nin. It was twentyyears before the United States would enter the
conflict with North Vietnam's communist forces.At the time of Tot's birth, Vietnam
was under French control, but duringWorld War II, Nazi Germany had taken
over France, weakening its power acrossthe globe. Taking advantage of this vulnerability,
(04:00):
Japan challenged French rule of Vietnam withlittle resistance. In March of nineteen
forty five, when Tot was justa baby, Japanese troops carried out a
coup against French authorities and took controlof Vietnam, but the independence was short
lived. Just months later, Japanwas defeated by the Allies in World War
II. Following this loss, Francebegan reasserting their power over Vietnam, though
(04:27):
this time it was met with resistancefrom communist forces strengthening in the north.
As power hungry leaders struggled for controlof Vietnam, Vietnamese families struggled to survive
without stable leadership. Systems of education, medical care, and food supply were
upended. Caught in the turmoil,Todt only received a basic education before leaving
(04:51):
school in the second grade to helpsupport her family. Her father died while
she was a child, and Taughtentered into an ar arranged marriage with a
Vietnamese military officer at a young ageof fourteen. The union was likely to
alleviate the financial burden on her mother. This is Tot's son, Chin c.
(05:11):
My mom. She was really strong. You know, she was only
four foot eleven, but she wasdense, like all muscled because when she
was really young, one of theways that people made a live and commonly
in Vietnam was to fire bricks,and you know, they would take the
clay, cut it out of theriver, use the leftovers from the rice
(05:33):
harvest to fire the clay. Andso when she was little, after she
left school, one of the thingsshe would do was haul that clay to
be fired. She was a veryhard worker. And I remember we had
a neighbor and he would always tryand pick her up, and he was
just always in awe of how strongshe was. And sometimes she'd flex her
(05:54):
biceps at parties. It's kind offunny. When Todd was twenty, the
Vietnam War between the US backed Southand the Communists led North officially began,
and two years later, at theage of twenty two, Tot gave birth
to her first son, Men.That same year, her husband was killed
in the war. Tot moved withher infant son from their country village to
(06:17):
the city of Taynin, where shebegan working as a housekeeper for the rich.
In the spacious kitchens of wealthier women, Tot developed a passion for cooking.
She took pleasure in the small joys, the aroma of broth wafting from
potts, the satisfying crunch of greenonions splitting against a blade. Gifted with
(06:39):
wisdom beyond her years, Tot knewthat to endure life's hardships, she must
also savor its blessings. It wasnineteen sixty eight, two years after the
birth of Tot's son, and thenumber of American troops in Vietnam had risen
exponentially. Over half a million werefighting alongside South Vietnamese soldiers to do my
(07:00):
feet North Vietnam's communist regime. Itwas during this time that Todd bumped into
an American soldier while biking through tanaIn. Clint and Harriman, known as
Clint to his friends, was aseasoned US Merchant Marine officer who'd been described
by one newspaper as a boisterous bullmoose of a man with salt and pepper
(07:21):
hair. My dad was an oldschool American. He was born in New
York, pre Depression era. Helived through the Depression as a young man,
an immigrant as well, an Italianimmigrant, you know, at that
time when there was a lot ofItalian and Irish immigration in New York City,
and he just always just doing thingsto the max. When he was
(07:44):
younger, he would get in alot of trouble, you know, sort
of like reminds me of those storiesthat you'd hear about America at that time.
Just a little bit wild, alittle bit free road motorcycles, you
know. And then eventually he gotinto the service sort of by accident,
and he ended up falling in lovewith the ocean and falling in love with
being on the water and being onships, and so he decided that he'd
(08:07):
make a career of being in aservice. And he was fun to be
around. He could talk your earoff for hours, tell you stories about
all the things he'd seen, aboutall the bullets he'd dodged. He was
kind of larger than life. Afterserving in both World War Two and the
Korean War, he'd recently arrived inVietnam, where he worked in logistics transporting
(08:28):
ammunition from the United States. Clintwas in his late forties when he met
twenty four year old Todt. DespiteTot's broken bike, the collision was a
happy accident. The couple fell inlove at first sight. The next day,
Clint returned to the place they'd met. He'd hoped to impress her with
(08:48):
a gift of a new bike.It was a kind gesture, but Tot
remained skeptical of the man who wastwo decades older than her and who towered
above her four foot eleven frame.Clint persisted courting her for a year,
when at last she determined that hewas more than, as she would later
phrase it, just another American foolingaround. She finally accepted his proposal.
(09:13):
They married in a traditional Vietnamese ceremonyofficiated by a village chief, and built
a house in Tannin's countryside. Itwas a special place for them, as
Clint would later say, quote areally divine home. Outside of Tot and
Clint's love story, the bloody VietnamWar raged on for six years. The
(09:33):
couple lived apart, seeing each otheronly when Clint's work brought him back.
They had an apartment in Saigon thathe could easily get to when he was
in town. Otherwise, Tot stayedin the house they'd built in the country.
She was, as Clint described her, a country girl. Although their
separation was less than ideal, Totremained optimistic that there was something better around
(09:58):
the corner. December tenth, nineteenseventy, Tot gave birth to her and
Clint's first child, a daughter namedtoo Hum, which roughly translates to Autumn
Rose. Clint was rarely in SouthVietnam to see her, but he brought
back new American clothes for his growingdaughter whenever he could. By the spring
of nineteen seventy five, US troopshad almost fully withdrawn from Vietnam and Saigone,
(10:24):
their final stronghold, was going totopple, Clint said, referring to
the native supporters of South Vietnam.Like Tot, it was the end of
life as they knew it over there. Tot's first marriage to a South Vietnamese
military officer, as well as hercurrent marriage to Clint, an American soldier
defending the South, would make hera target once the North took over.
(10:46):
He believed that she might be killedor at the least separated from her children.
Tot faced a difficult situation. Herdaughter with Clint, who would look
only half Vietnamese, wouldn't be safein Vietnam. But Tot couldn't bear to
leave her family and take her oldestson away from his home. She made
(11:07):
a heart wrenching decision to entrust herdaughter with Clint, who would take her
to America while she stayed in Vietnamwith her son and her family, no
matter the consequences. Clint was inNew York at this pivotal moment in history.
I got hold of the port captainand practically begged him to get me
out of there, Clint said ofhis difficult journey back to Vietnam. After
(11:31):
some negotiations, he was approved totravel from New York to Saigon on the
U. S n S. GreenvilleVictory. He later said, it was
the only ship that I could havegotten on. He called Tot and made
plans to meet her at their apartmentin Saigon to take his daughter to her
new home. Just before Clint left, he slipped on a piece of ice
(11:52):
and broke his leg. When theswelling became unmanageable, he went to a
Navy doctor, where he was toldin no uncertain terms that he wasn't fit
for duty. Bullshit, Clint respondedto the doctor, I have to make
this trip. By explaining that hiswife and children were in danger, he
was able to convince the disapproving doctorto let him go. His leg wrapped
(12:16):
in a cast and in extreme pain, Clint was carried up the gangway on
the back of another officer. Backin Tae Nin, Tot boarded a bus
to Saigone with her daughter, whowas now four. As they headed south
down the highway, Tot gazed intoa blur of passing trees and wondered what
the next few days would hold.Vietnam had been in various states of conflict
(12:41):
her entire life, but had nevergotten to a point where she needed to
evacuate. She thought of Clint's voiceon the phone, how urgent he'd sounded
about getting them out. The planwas for Clint and too Hum to travel
to America on the Greenville victory,and while the thought of being separated from
to U Hum was heart wrenching,Tot trusted her husband's intuition. It had
(13:03):
been quite some time since they'd lastseen him, and two Hum had grown
significantly. Tot ran a hand throughher daughter's hair, which had a strawberry
blonde hue she'd inherited from Clint.The girl's expression was peaceful as she looked
out at the passing cars. Allshe knew was that she'd be soon reunited
with her father. The bus slowedto a halt. A roadblock had cut
(13:26):
off their usual route to Saigon,so Tot and too Hum headed to the
river instead. Before long, theywere squeezed tightly against eight additional passengers in
a tiny two person boat. Asthey traveled down stream towards Saigon, rockets
began plummeting from the sky, piercingthe surface of the river and capsizing neighboring
(13:48):
boats. Tot held her daughter close. She could feel the glares of Communist
soldiers peering through the trees. TuHum's hair was the telltale sign of an
American father, the sight of whichwould make her a target. Tot shielded
the four year old's face with awide straw hat. Their boat was stopped
several times. Armed officers prodded Totwith questions. They were skeptical of how
(14:13):
the concealed child could possibly be asleepamidst the chaos, Tot held her face
steady and asserted that her daughter wasextremely sick. Thanks to her cunning,
the soldiers permitted them to proceed.Clint continued to work while on the ship,
causing his broken leg to swell furtherand his cast to fall apart.
While anchored in Thailand, he receivedword that evacuation had begun in Vietnam.
(14:39):
With the excuse of replacing his wornout cast, Clint was permitted to deboard
the ship in Saigon. There hemade his way to the apartment, where
he was greeted by his wife anddaughter. Despite what she'd gone through on
the river, Tot remained surprisingly optimistic. My wife was sort of latti Da,
he later said. Out of hernonchalant attitude, she maintained that things
(15:03):
would soon go back to normal asthey always had. Presumably, the location
of their apartment fell under some sortof threat as they stayed the night at
the Hotel Majestic, one of thecity's most luxurious accommodations, but even the
building's sprawling marble floors and ornate chandelierscouldn't protect them. Just past midnight,
(15:24):
the family woke with a start tothe boom of artillery shells striking the hotel.
They gathered their belongings and made arrangementsto leave as soon as possible.
The ship Clint had traveled from Americaon the Greenville Victory was no longer in
Saigon. It moved fifty miles southeastto the port city of Vung Tau,
(15:46):
and they had to make a harrowingtrip from Saigon to Vung Tao by land.
Clint arranged for a car to takethem in the early hours of the
morning. As the car weaved throughhighway traffic, Tot squeezed her daughter's hand.
She felt confident they'd be reunited,but wasn't sure how long it would
take. Once too Hum and Clintwere safely aboard, she'd head back home
(16:08):
to be with men. Approaching theharbor's entrance, Clint and Tot noticed abandoned
motor scooters and debris scattered across theroad. It was a dead end.
The ship was visible in the distance, but the path was blocked by a
young Communist soldier. Clint later recalled, when we got to this barricade,
this soldier struck his rifle in thedriver's window. My wife and child and
(16:33):
myself are sitting in the back,and the soldier said get out and walk.
By that point, Clint's leg hadswollen to twice its original size.
He wouldn't be able to walk thedistance to the ship. The road was
falling into pandemonium, and they instructedthe driver to turn back. They'd try
to catch another boat in Saigone,then transfer on to the Greenville Victory.
(16:56):
Elsewhere, according to Clint, thedriver wheel the car around and just missed
a truck by an extra coat ofpaint. Around every turn, communist soldiers
were landing helicopters, brandishing weapons andcreating barricades. Clint held a grenade in
his hand, silently planning to useit should they come under attack. We
(17:18):
could all get it right here onthe road at any minute, Clint told
Tot. She smiled back and said, well, darling, at least we'll
all die together. Clint wasn't certainshe even knew what she was saying,
but the sentiment emboldened him. Quoteshe had goddamn courage, and that gave
me great courage. Clint abandoned theidea that they would all be able to
(17:48):
make it to Vung Tao by land, so they returned to Sigon to find
a way to get there by boat. After weaving between the road and the
jungle for miles, they returned toSaigon's newport harbor. Clint quickly kissed her
goodbye. There was no time tolinger. Clint later said, I went
down the longest gangway in the worldwith this friggin leg, which is now
(18:10):
the size of a sewer pipe.When he and Tu Hum made it to
the ship, they were denied entryby the captain and forced to return to
the harbor's office. Clint found theofficer in charge and told him what happened.
This friggin guy doesn't want to takeme down the river, he said.
The officer escorted Clint and to Humback down the gangway, and they
(18:32):
were finally permitted to board, andmy father, maybe sort of anticipating a
change of heart, gave her somepapers that said that she was married to
an American serviceman, and some papersthat would allow her to get onto a
base. And he gave her thosepapers and he said, you know,
if you need these, use them. And they parted ways, thinking maybe
(18:56):
they'd never see each other again.Todd stood on the pier, holding her
face in an assured smile as Clintwaved from the deck. It was his
signal that he and two hum weresettled and that Tot could head home.
But her body was frozen. Asthe ship's silhouette vanished in the distance,
she realized Clint had been right.The conflict was far more dire than she'd
(19:18):
assumed. Her limbs went numb withthe fear, and she collapsed. I
couldn't take it anymore, she'd laterrecall. My heart was broken. The
Pioneer Contender approached Vung Tao, andthe ship's captain refused to dock the ship.
He was in a hurry and hadno time to stop. They would
have to make a transfer while theship was underway, and the transfer would
(19:42):
not be easy, especially with Clint'sbroken leg. Coordinated by radio, a
tiny lifeboat paced the large ship whilea narrow gangway was lowered over the lifeboat.
Sharp pulses of pain shot through Clint'sleg with every step as he descended
this steep plankway that was being rockedby the top of the bay. Noticing
(20:04):
his struggle, an American soldier calledfrom below, offering to catch too Hum
so Clint could more easily make therest of the way down. Clint later
said, I took that little fouryear old girl and threw her down there
like a bag of grain, agood long drop to like fifteen feet,
and he just caught her like abasketball. The lifeboat brought them back to
(20:27):
the harbor they'd been forced to abandonearlier that morning, and at last they
boarded the Greenville Victory, securing theirsafe passage out of Vietnam. You know
my mom, she lived in asmall village. I think she always saw
herself as being from them, andher family was there. She thought the
(20:47):
center of her world was there.She also knew that my sister would be
persecuted, so her first thought wasI need to get her to a place
where she can grow up safely.Her idea was that she would just leave
and go back home to her smallvillage in Taynin. And you hear things
about mothers and their children. Ithink it was just too much for her
(21:12):
to leave her daughter. Tot decidedto leave Vietnam and join Clint in America,
but Clint wouldn't be there to helpher get out. Meanwhile, Tot
made her way back to Taynin,where she found her son and gathered a
few belongings. Leaving once more forSaigon, Todd found that this time the
(21:33):
road had been entirely cut off.If they were going to reach the evacuation
ships, they'd have to travel byfoot, Twigs snapping beneath her shoes toat
charged through the jungle, a suitcasein one hand in her son's sweaty palm
in the other. They would hiketwenty three miles before reaching the city.
Sweat and humidity clung to their clothes, weighing down each step. Mosquitoes buzzed
(21:59):
into tormenting clusters around their heads.The terrain was challenging for even the most
experienced soldiers to navigate, but somehowTaut and men found a way outside of
the jungle canopy. The air waslighter, and for a moment they could
exhale, But as they approached thecity, a buzz louder than the mosquitoes
(22:22):
roared in the streets. Sigon wasswarming with people, in a scene Tot
described as bees sucking on honey.Communist takeover was imminent, and everyone wanted
to escape before it was too late. Crowds pressed up against the gates of
the US embassy. Tot decided totake a different approach. She'd spent the
(22:42):
last of her money on a cabto Saigon's Newport Harbor, the same place
Clint and two hum had previously departedfrom. Upon arrival, Tot and men
were granted access to a warehouse servingas a makeshift waiting room. Heat rose
from hundreds of anxious bodies and radiatedfrom the metal ceiling, but at least
(23:03):
there was stillness. Clint had beenable to make arrangements with the base commander,
Colonel Vong, for taut and minsafepassage. Clint later said she was
the only Vietnamese woman besides the oneswho worked there, that had a pass
to get into that base, butshe had this personal document about the size
of the Declaration of Independence with ColonelVong's signature on it. She could get
(23:26):
in anywhere with that pass because hewas the big law there. Thanks to
the pass, they'd been granted passageon the Buhun Commander, the last ship
out of Saigon. On the morningof April twenty ninth, nineteen seventy five,
a stern voice bellowed from military radios. The temperature in Saigon is one
(23:48):
hundred and five degrees and rising,followed by music Irving Berlin's White Christmas Bing.
Crosby's crooning would normally evoke memories ofsnow lined streets and glowing Christmas trees,
but that spring morning the song tookon a new meaning. It signaled
that the final phase of Saigon's evacuationhad begun. In the Fall of Sagon
(24:11):
in nineteen seventy five, when allthose things but that you've seen maybe in
textbooks and history books, of thehelicopters landing on the embassy and people fighting
to get on them, she wasthere, and she went to the embassy,
but knew that there's no way atthat time she'd ever be able to
get on any sort of aircraft oranything that was leaving there. So she
made her way to the wharfs,and she was lucky enough to get off
(24:33):
on the last frigate to leave Vietnam. Military helicopters descended from the sky,
gathering evacuees from all over the city. At Newport Harbor, Todd and men
boarded the Boo Hung Pioneer along withthousands of other refugees. Every crevice of
the overcrowded ship was occupied, butthere was still more clamoring to get on.
(24:57):
Todd watched as they seperately climbed laddersand hung from cargo nets. It
was heartbreaking, she would later say. She remembered men pulling themselves onto the
ship, only to jump back offwhen they discovered their wives hadn't made it.
The memory haunted her for decades.Eventually, the loaded ship made it
(25:18):
out of the harbor and into theopen sea. They'd escaped just in time.
Back in Vietnam, army tanks cruisedthrough the streets, bursting through palace
gates to assert Communist rule. Thebeautiful home Taught and Clint had built,
and Taynin would soon be overtaken.As Clint had predicted, nothing would ever
(25:40):
be the same. In just amatter of days, Man's life had been
forever transformed. He'd been uprooted fromhis friends, his school, and his
family. With little understanding of whythey had to leave it all behind.
He begged Tot to take him backto his grandmother, to their home in
the country. Is all he'd everknown. Weary with fatigue, Tot looked
(26:03):
into her son's frightened eyes and remindedhim of their goal. We have to
find your sister. Thanks to Clint'smilitary connections, Tot and men were permitted
to rest in the owner's cabin.It had been several days since the family
separated, and things were finally goingto plan. On the Boo Hung Pioneer,
(26:25):
Tot and Min received an update thattoo, Hum and Clint were safe.
At last, they could exhale.It would be a long summer,
but an end was in sight.The walls of their quarters hushed the chaos
on the deck, and eventually oceanwaves lulled them into a long awaited sleep.
After docking in the Philippines, Totand Min traveled via airplane to the
(26:48):
US. They touched down in Pennsylvaniain late May of nineteen seventy five and
were greeted with fanfare. Hundreds ofAmericans were waiting for them at the airport,
waving flags and holding homemade signs.After words of welcome from local officials
and a performance by the high schoolmarching band, they were brought to a
refugee camp in nearby Indian town Gap. Over the course of a few months,
(27:12):
the camp's population swelled to over twentythousand refugees. Everyone was provided with
fresh linens, new toothbrushes, andplenty of food, comforts that many had
gone without for months. Taught andMen were housed in military barracks alongside other
families from Vietnam and Cambodia. Summerdays stretched on as refugees waited for sponsorship
(27:37):
approval. Everyone did what they coulddo to enjoy their time in limbo.
Children played outside freely, finally savefrom the threats of combat. On the
fourth of July, many took partin a celebratory parade, waving flags and
singing along to God Bless America.That evening, people pulled out instruments they'd
carried from home and brought overseas,and groups gathered in dancing to traditional Vietnamese
(28:02):
music. Alongside the uncertainty they'd harboredfor months, something else was stirring in
the air, a sense of excitementfor what was to come in a new
country. By the end of thatsummer, tot and Men were cleared to
leave the camp. They traveled crosscountry to Lake Tahoe, Nevada, where
they reunited with Clint and two humfor the first time they were all safe
(28:26):
and together as a family. Clintspent the summer on a mission in Cambodia,
rescuing an American merchant ship that hadbeen captured by Communist forces, and
because of his valor, he washonored by President Gerald Ford with the Merchant
Marine Distinguished Service Medal and was namedMerchant Marine Mariner of the Year in nineteen
(28:47):
seventy five. The peaceful lake seemedworlds apart from Saigon's tumultuous harbors. Pine
scented air filled their lungs, sunlightseeped into their skin, and cool mountain
breeze danced in their hair. ClintonTodt smiled as they watched the children splash
in the shallows. Their treacherous journeywas over at last. I think by
(29:10):
the time they came out of thewar, it just seems so much.
They'd survived so much. It's likea relationship forged in fire, and you
just you can never separate them.My name is Kristen Sevie, and thank
you so much for joining me.If you like what you heard and you
(29:32):
want more, you can find mypodcast Murder, she told, on any
platform. I'll see you again forthe conclusion of tot story in part two.
If you have any information about thedisappearance of Tot Harriman, I encourage
you to contact the Leak City PoliceDepartment at two eight one three three two
two five six six. A veryspecial thanks to Chinsea for sharing his memories
(29:55):
with us. A detailed list ofsources and photos can be found at murder,
she told dot com. Thank youfor listening, and stay safe New Mexico.
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