December 17, 2024 • 33 mins
Join me as I get the chance to discuss my favorite topic with Dr. Charlotte Markey, a leading body image scientist and psychology professor at Rutgers University. We'll unpack the multifaceted nature of body image, which extends beyond mere thoughts and feelings. Dr. Markey sheds light on the significant impact body image has on mental health and social behaviors, as well as the pervasive influence of social media on young people's perception of their bodies.
Learn the art of balancing fitness goals with life's other priorities without sacrificing mental health or personal relationships. Society often pushes us towards unrealistic physical ideals, but we discuss the importance of setting achievable goals that bring satisfaction and well-being. We'll also explore how to love your body while seeking improvement, drawing parallels to lifelong learning and the pursuit of knowledge. This conversation underscores a shift towards valuing strength, health, and nourishment, offering a fresh perspective for individuals at any stage of life.
Dr. Markey shares practical advice on embracing positive self-talk, encouraging listeners to amplify the good they see in themselves. Join us for an enlightening discussion on nurturing self-kindness and transforming body image from a source of stress into a pathway to confidence and acceptance.
To learn more about Charlotte Markey, you can visit her website
at www.CharlotteMarkey.com.
Connect with her on Facebook (Dr. Charlotte Markey), Instagram (@char_markey),
TikTok (@charmarkey), Threads (@char_markey), or Substack (@BODY TALK).
Let's Connect:
https://www.facebook.com/DanielleNicoleLaRose/
https://www.instagram.com/danielle_nicole_larose/
https://www.daniellenicolelarose.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danielle La Rose (00:00):
Have you ever wondered what it'd be like to
sit down and be able to askquestions to someone who is a
real body image scientist, wholiterally studies body image and
eating behaviors?
Well, if you don't, I do.
Every single day I have dreamedof this day to sit down with
our guest, dr Charlotte Markey.
Because she's done it.
She is a body image scientistand she is passionate about
(00:24):
understanding how to help peoplehave a healthy relationship
with their bodies and food.
She's a psychology professor atRutgers University and a
research scientist who hasliterally published over a
hundred scholarly articles andchapters about health issues.
I mean, if we want to know thereal stuff, not just self-love
guru stuff on social media thatwe see, but research-based
(00:44):
information from an expert whois doing the work, who is in the
field, this is the person, andI'm so honored that she took the
minute to sit down 30 minutesto sit down with me, to where I
could ask the questions thatmany of you have sent in to me.
Can you love your body and wantto change it at the same time?
How can moms instill a positivebody image with their kiddos?
(01:06):
What about fitness and workouts?
How do we do that from apositive body image standpoint,
and I mean, does losing weightactually make us happy and what
does the research find aboutthat?
So I asked all the questions.
I could have talked to her forhours and hours and hours.
I was totally nerding out andnervous, but it was incredible.
(01:27):
I hope that you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I would love to hear yourthoughts.
I would love to hear how thistransforms your mindset a bit
more about your body image.
So let's jump right in.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast today.
I know that all the juicinessthat you're going to share is
going to help so many humans,including myself, because I'm so
(01:48):
excited to talk to you.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Dr. Charlotte Markey (01:52):
Oh, that's really generous.
I'm really happy to be here.
Danielle La Rose (01:55):
Yeah, okay.
So let's just jump in.
Let's tell me, like nittygritty, what is body image?
We hear a lot about bodypositivity and body neutrality
and all those popular things onsocial media, but what is body
image?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (02:12):
So I have a very broad view of body image,
and I think of body image asnot just how we think and feel
about our bodies, but really howwe treat our bodies, so our
sense of self-respect andself-compassion.
Our body image is also verymuch associated with our
(02:34):
behavioral health.
So what behaviors do we engagein concerning our bodies?
Do we nourish ourselvesadequately, for example?
Our social lives are very muchassociated with our sense of our
bodies.
What situations do we avoid?
What do we engage in?
(02:56):
A lot of that stems from howcomfortable we are in our own
bodies and, of course, ourmental health in general is
linked with our body image.
So not just eating disorders,but we know from decades of
research that your body image isassociated with your tendency
(03:17):
to experience things likedepression, anxiety, even
substance use problems.
Danielle La Rose (03:24):
And it's so interesting because I think if
you went on the street and justasked a lot of people what is
body image, right, I think somepeople would probably say, well,
it's just what you think aboutyour body.
End of discussion, that's it.
And so I love this whole.
It's like literally your wholeentire life affects, like that
is your body, your body image.
And I like I really appreciatethe word like comfortable, like
(03:46):
how comfortable do you feel inyour body?
And I don't think that's aquestion that we ask ourselves a
lot.
So tell me what.
So you're a body imageresearcher, so what?
What made you choose this field?
How did you get into it and saythat's the thing I'm going to
study for the rest of my life?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (04:05):
I don't think of any of us, that any of
us really know what we want todo for the rest of our lives,
usually when we're younger,right.
So I've just been lucky to endup on a path that continues to
(04:25):
interest me even after, you know, almost three decades at this
point.
But you know, I think there area lot of things I can point to
that helped put me on this path.
So, even as a young child, I wasa ballet dancer and I was just,
you know, immersed in a worldwhere there was a lot of body
scrutiny and I think thatimpacted how I thought about my
(04:45):
own body, how uncomfortable Iwas in my own body as a young
person, and also just made mevery aware of how people think
about and talk about theseissues, because in the ballet
world all of it was veryexplicit.
So you know, I think that inmany of our families or in other
(05:06):
social circles, some of thelanguage is more implied, it's
not always as explicit as it wasin the dance world.
So from a very young age, youknow, I heard what people
thought about my own and others'bodies.
So I think that just is part ofyou know what.
What drew me to the, the areaof study, and I think too, you
(05:31):
know, like there's always thingsthat are changing in our social
and cultural environments thatmake it new and interesting.
You know, social media didn'texist when I started this work.
Danielle La Rose (05:44):
Yeah.
And yeah, now that youmentioned that, what would you
say?
How has social media impactedbody image, or has it?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (05:54):
I mean, I think it has right, but that
wasn't something we knew wascoming Right Right.
I think that the way we presentourselves to the world on
social media is relevant andsocial media doesn't have to be
a negative experience, but formany people, especially young
(06:15):
people, when it comes to mentalhealth and body image, it can be
negative.
Danielle La Rose (06:20):
Yeah.
So what if you know?
Mom is listening right now andshe's like yes, of course social
media is the problem, but wealso know that that's the world
we live in and kids that's wherethey hang out, you know.
And so what can moms or justhumans in general that are
passionate about helping kidshave a more positive body image,
what can we do in regards tosocial media to try to help with
(06:44):
that?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (06:45):
image.
What can we do in regards tosocial media to try to help with
that?
Well, I talk about this a lotin Adultish and all of my body
image books because I think it'ssomething we really need to be
thoughtful about in order toprotect kids' mental health.
But also adults need to bethinking about these things in a
thoughtful way, and a lot of itis, I think, knowing how to
(07:07):
make all of these algorithmswork for us.
So one of the interesting thingsabout social media is that we
drive the algorithms to a largeextent right who we like, who we
follow we like, who we followwe click on.
(07:29):
Then we get more of that.
So we have to be careful wherewe're clicking, so to speak, if
we want to get informationthat's going to be adaptive,
that's going to beevidence-based, that's going to
be supportive of our mentalhealth.
So I think young people need tohear about that, need to be
really taught media literacy.
I mean, I think that this isprobably the most important and
(07:53):
completely neglected area ofpublic health right now is just
teaching young people medialiteracy, because if they're
going to go to social media forall health information, they
need to know how to decipherwhat's real and what's not.
Danielle La Rose (08:09):
Yeah, no, that's great, you know,
supporting a positive body image.
What are some things that youhave seen, have researched, have
like just know that, what iswhat is helpful for people to
(08:32):
see and what is not helpful?
You know, I've read a lot ofthings.
Right, If, if we, if we keepshowing our cellulite and our
wrinkles and our roles andsaying this is normal, all we're
doing is continuing to thinkabout our bodies, right, we're
not getting out of that mindsetof my body is the most important
thing.
So what would your response tothat be and what do you think
that we should be doing andsharing to help?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (08:52):
Well, I think it is important that we
see body diversity in media andpublic spaces, that we're not
just focused in on ideal bodiesthat no one can actually achieve
.
So I think it's okay sometimesto share some of our
imperfections or to be lesscurated in some of what we
(09:14):
present, but then we also knowthat even if we do present
what's more realistic, or if wedo present imagery and explain
it or label it you know some ofthe research suggests it can
still be depressing or upsettingto people.
So I think we have to be, youknow, just careful about what
(09:39):
we're presenting but also, likeyou said, not keep the focus
entirely on appearances, whichis hard, because a lot of these
media formats are just all aboutappearance, right, right.
Danielle La Rose (09:53):
Yeah, it's a picture, right.
We got to grab people'sattention to make them read.
So what can I post and share tomake it jaw?
Dropping that people want toread what I have to say,
dropping that people want toread what I have to say, right,
and so that balance is is verytricky.
So, based, like you justmentioned, with research, is
there anything that you'veyou've done your research has?
(10:20):
Maybe you went into it thinkingthis is going to be the outcome
and you found somethingcompletely different.
You know, one of the things Ilove about adultish your book is
how you pull out the myths.
Right, like, here are the mythsthat are being spread
everywhere about body image, andhere's actual facts based on
research.
So, have you been surprised byany?
Is there one thing that you'vebeen surprised by with your
research?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (10:38):
Yeah, I think I've been doing this for
so long that not a lot surprisesme anymore, but I do think that
something that tends tosurprise other people is, you
know, just some of the researchthat suggests that some of the
more inspirational type contentactually does not motivate
(11:01):
people or make them feel better,that it does tend to actually
elicit a more negative responseto viewers.
It's not inspiring, and I thinka lot of that's just because,
you know, when people are tryingto present themselves as like a
fitness expert, they look thepart typically, and most of us
(11:24):
will not look that part ever,because that's not what we do
for a living.
We're not like fitness expertsfor a living, most of us.
So we don't spend as much timeat the gym and we don't, you
know, focus on having likeperfectly toned arms or whatever
, because we have other thingsto do so so, so I do think that
(11:46):
that has been found in multiplestudies at this point, Okay, and
so I love that you went thereand I hope that it's okay that
I'm going to go here with you.
Danielle La Rose (11:56):
as someone who is part of the fitness world as
a group fitness instructor andtrainer, I am really curious to
know what you think.
If you could, you know, go talkto all trainers in the world
and be like stop doing this orstart doing that to help people
get and again we can define thisword next, but healthy, like
(12:16):
actual health what would youwish that?
You could just like grab themand shake them and say stop
doing this or do this.
Wish that you?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (12:23):
could just like grab them and shake them
and say, stop doing this or dothis.
I mean, I think you know it'sdifficult, because what catches
people's attention in mediaspaces is the extreme, and it's
the extreme that's unrealisticand impractical and not
sustainable for most people, andthat's true in terms of any
kind of like appearancemodification, it's true of
dieting, it's true of mostfitness regimens, right?
(12:52):
So I mean, I guess the messageI would want fitness
professionals putting out thereis more about, you know,
essentially moderation orenjoying activity, picking
things you like.
Yes, we know there's goodevidence that being active is
good for your body and your mind.
So that's not really thequestion.
I think it's more about how tohelp people find things they
(13:14):
like that they'll keep doing,that they won't necessarily
prioritize over other importantparts of their life.
So you know, those are not theextreme messages, though.
So it's hard to grab people'sattention with nuance.
Danielle La Rose (13:31):
Yeah, for sure , For sure, Absolutely Right.
You open, you go to any gym,you see any advertisement.
It's always the before andafter picture, right, Like this
is the goal.
This is what we're going forand I love.
I just had to pull out this one.
I won't get it exactly how yousaid it, but not prioritizing
that over other parts of yourlife.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about what you mean by that
(13:55):
?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (13:57):
Yeah.
So I think that you know a lotof times, right.
There's only so many hours inthe day.
We all have to make choices howwe're going to spend our time,
and I think it's important thatpeople are active if they can be
, if they're physically able,and yet it's not necessarily
(14:18):
more important than gettingenough sleep, it's not
necessarily more important than,you know, spending time with
your kids or your partner oryour friends, right?
So I think that you know wehave to be aware of doing, kind
of all the things that we canthat are important to us, not
(14:41):
just physically butpsychologically.
And, of course, I'm trained as apsychologist, so I'm going to
think about that more, right?
Like I'm not just thinkingabout physical health, I'm
thinking about mental health,and I'm also thinking about how,
when people try to changebehaviors, like you know, when
the new year comes andeveryone's number one resolution
(15:05):
is get in shape, right, yearafter year after year, there's a
reason why people pick the sameyear's resolution year after
year after year, and it'sbecause they can't maintain it,
right?
So, as someone who has studiedbehavior change, I like to think
about it in terms of like, well, what could you actually
maintain?
(15:25):
What would actually besatisfying and rewarding to you
and not neglect those otherareas of your life that should
also be important to you.
Danielle La Rose (15:34):
Yeah, oh, might drop right there.
I love that so much Cause I dothink when people, when we do go
trying to make a behaviorchange, we drop everything and
it's like that is number onefocus and if we really think
about it in our life, likethat's probably not our top
priority, right, like having sixpack abs for me is not a top
priority, but I might spend mywhole time and energy trying to
achieve that because that's whatI've been sold and told that I
(15:57):
should be doing.
So I love, I love that.
Now one question that a lot ofpeople, when I go on my tangents
and I start, you know, quotingbooks like adult-ish, they
always say well, can you, canyou love your body and want to
change it at the same time?
What would be your response tothat?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (16:17):
Yeah, I love this question.
It's something I I don't thinkI struggle with in answering for
myself, but I feel likesometimes it's hard to provide a
compelling answer to otherpeople because a lot of people
think these are mutuallyexclusive, and I think an
analogy can be helpful here.
So the analogy I like to use isyou know, like, I've been
(16:42):
studying in my chosen field formany, many years and I think I'm
reasonably intelligent in thisarea, right?
So I am content and sort ofaccepting of what I know in my I
guess you know intelligence orwhatever.
But also I'm continuallyreading.
But also I'm continuallyreading, I'm continually trying
(17:17):
to learn more, and that's notbecause I think I'm inadequate
in any way, it's because I wantto improve still.
It's because I want to learnwhat's new or what's better
ourselves in other domains in asimilar way.
That that can be a usefulapproach, right, like I can
think, I generally like my body,I'm pretty comfortable in my
own skin.
But you know and this is true,as I'm getting older, I do think
(17:38):
more about my strength and ummaking sure that for the long
haul this body is going to carryme through life, and so when I
was younger I didn't care aboutlike strength training at all,
and it's not my favorite thingto do, but it's something I
think about more now because, um, even though I don't feel, like
(17:59):
you know, I'm not aiming forlike a six pack Um, like you
know, I'm not aiming for like asix pack I still want my core
strength to help support me.
Danielle La Rose (18:11):
So if I fall or something I don't break a hip
, right, yeah.
And I I love that you said thattoo, because I just recently
went to the doctor and was like,oh, my lower back is hurting.
And she says do some coreexercise, right, we want, we
need strength, and so it's oneof those things where a lot of
times you know from myexperience, right, I only heard
women and people talking aboutgoing to the gym and working out
(18:31):
just to lose weight.
It wasn't to have a strong core, it wasn't to be strong, it
wasn't to help our bones, it wasjust a tool to lose weight.
Same with food Food was a toolto lose weight, it wasn't a way
to nourish your body and feelbetter and have energy and all
of those things.
And I really liked that part ofyour book, too, where you
(18:52):
mentioned that you know a lot ofpeople, when they start
thinking about intuitive eatingor different things like that,
we think that, oh well, you justdo whatever you want, right?
And in your book you talk a lotabout these things of no like.
When you actually listen toyour body, it will tell you what
it needs and how like, and so Ijust really appreciate those
(19:13):
pieces too.
That are so, so helpful.
I know this is a book for youngadults.
I'm not considered a youngadult, but this book is so good
so I've been telling moms andeveryone like you should read
this, because it just touches onthose things.
That's so, so, so important.
I want to kind of go back alittle when we were talking
about fitness and weight.
I think a lot of people havethis conception that if I just
(19:38):
lose weight right and I getcloser to those beauty standards
that are set, I might not reachthem right, because we know
we're never going to reach those, but I get closer to that, that
means I'll be happier, I'll behealthier, I'll have a positive
body image.
So can you talk a little bitabout how do we work on our body
(20:00):
image?
Or is it something that apositive body image will come
when I lose weight, or what doesthat nuance look like?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (20:08):
So I think that the message we're sold,
typically in the media andespecially when it comes to
different products and plans, islike you need to change
yourself, and once you changeyourself you'll feel good about
yourself.
In other words, there's allthese things that are wrong with
(20:29):
you, so work on them and thenyou'll feel good.
And, of course, none of us areperfect.
All of us have things wrongwith ourselves, whether it be,
you know, psychologically orphysically or whatever, right, I
mean, none of us are perfect,but I mean the goal is not
perfection.
So, you know, I think most ofthe data suggest that body image
(20:55):
is much more psychological andmuch less dependent on um, on
our physical appearance, thanpeople realize.
And so sort of building up thatsense of comfort with who we
are is a mental process morethan something we can, you know,
achieve by transforming ourexternal self.
(21:19):
And you know, some of the goodevidence for this comes from, I
think, the eating disorderliterature, the body dysmorphia
literature that you know there'sa lot of research to suggest
that when people start to changetheir appearance, they don't
(21:40):
tend to feel better.
They then tend to want tochange it more.
So it's not like oh, I lostfive pounds, great, I feel good.
Now.
It's like now I want to losefive more pounds, right.
And the same thing we even seewhen people pursue cosmetic
surgery.
It's not like, oh, I fixed mynose, fix being in quotes here,
(22:07):
you know, great, I'm done.
No, it's.
Then usually people go back.
Repeat customers are thelargest segment of cosmetic
surgery consumers.
So I fix again in quotes Ifixed my nose, all right, now I
want to fix my stomach, right.
So there's never really an endpoint is the problem.
(22:27):
And so if you think about itlike, oh, I have to do all these
external things and then I'llfeel good, I think you're
setting yourself up for like avery, very long process.
And so we really want to thinkmore about like, can we work on
our mental health and shoring upour sense of security with
(22:50):
ourselves, regardless of what'sgoing on, sort of on the outside
?
Danielle La Rose (22:57):
Okay, so let's say I wake up today with a poor
body image, right?
I've heard you talk about thisa lot.
You know, just because someonesays that they love and
appreciate their body doesn'tmean that every single day they
wake up and they're like I lovemy body, right?
So let's say I wake up todaynegative body image.
I'm just really in a funk.
What would be?
Are there tips and strategiesand things that work for people
(23:21):
to help them?
You know, even just throughoutthe day maybe not long term,
maybe that's a bigger process,but just in the day are there
things that people can do tohelp with their body image?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (23:31):
So it's important when we have those
days because we all have thosedays to regard ourselves very
compassionately, so toacknowledge it, like, okay, I
don't feel great today, everyonehas these days.
I'm not going to do anythingdrastic.
This isn't about punishingmyself for feeling this way,
(23:55):
because feeling this way ispretty normal.
I'm going to do things thatmight make me feel better, right
?
So for me that means I do tryto be active, because I usually
just feel better if I go on awalk or a run.
Right?
Irrespective of my you knowtemporary sense of body image,
(24:18):
those things help boost mymental health.
So I may make a pointeddecision like, okay, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna do those things, I'mgonna move something around so I
can fit that into my schedule.
You can also just dresscomfortably, like, just those
are good days to throw on acomfy sweatshirt or, um, you
(24:42):
know, just allow yourself to becomfortable so that you can help
to mitigate that sense of maybejust feeling less at ease, as
you would want to.
And sometimes it's even justabout distracting yourself,
right?
I mean, if I wake up and I'mnot feeling like I'm bringing my
(25:05):
A game, you know, sometimes ithelps me.
Just get to work, just startdoing what I'm doing and then I
think about it less, I'mdistracted, you know.
So these are kind of in someways just good coping techniques
for any kind of a bad day.
I think right, like, do thingsthat make you happy.
And for some people that maymean like call a friend or text
(25:28):
a friend and say like hey, canyou do lunch today or do you
want to grab coffee thisafternoon?
Really quick, I need like ahalf hour break, or you know
whatever works for you.
Danielle La Rose (25:38):
Yeah, and I think it's really important that
you share that.
You know you said there arebasic coping mechanisms, but I,
a lot of people don't thinkabout, you know, if they have a
poor body image day, right,they're just not feeling the
best.
That that's need for copingmechanisms, like doing something
that brings you joy, or movingyour body or taking your mind
(25:58):
off of it by doing somethingelse.
I don't think we think aboutthat.
I think I guess I'm speakingfor myself.
Right, several years ago, Iwould wake up and just be like I
just don't like this about mybody at all.
I'm going to stress about itall day.
But this is normal because,right, like a lot of women
experience this I've heard thisall growing up that you know we
(26:20):
complain about our legs, wecomplain about our bellies, we
complain about all these things,and that's just the way that it
is, and so I would have neverthought to just say I can do
something.
Right, I think we have more.
What you're sharing, I think,tells us that we have more
control than we think that we do.
Right, when we have thosethoughts that we can do
something, like we don't havecontrol but we can do something
(26:43):
about it.
It doesn't have to just be theway that it is right.
Dr. Charlotte Markey (26:48):
I think that's right, but I think we
have to be careful in thinkingabout control, because our
bodies are going to changeacross our lifetime, no matter
what we do.
Like we don't have completecontrol, right, because our
bodies are aging every day, andespecially for women, if they
experience, you know, pregnancyor are raising young children
(27:12):
and dealing with a postpartumbody or dealing with
perimenopause or menopause.
I mean, there's just a lot oftimes in our lives where we
don't have total control.
We can cope, we can do thosethings we talked about, and I
would say that for most people,those are pretty adaptive coping
(27:32):
strategies and we want to tryto avoid maladaptive coping
strategies.
And we want to try to avoidmaladaptive coping strategies,
which is then, you know, maybewaking up and feeling really
uncomfortable and bloated orsomething, and thinking I'm not
going to have breakfast or I'mgoing to, you know.
You know not nourish myselfproperly, because this is how I
(27:54):
feel.
Or you know not nourish myselfproperly because this is how I
feel.
Or you know, over exercise orwhatever it may be right.
So there's certainly moreadaptive ways, right, like
connecting with someone sociallyor distracting yourself, right.
These are usually adaptivecoping strategies, but we don't
want to let our our sort of moreneurotic brains take us to
(28:19):
maladaptive places.
Danielle La Rose (28:21):
Yeah, thank you for pointing that out.
Yeah, control wasn't the rightword, right?
So we're focused on the actions, right, knowing that we have
the ability to take actions thatcan help us to feel better with
those thoughts, thank you,that's great.
Okay, so let's say I'm a mom,or, again, just a human who
works with littles, and I wantto, you know, make sure that I'm
(28:44):
doing things that aresupportive.
Are there things that I shouldsay, not say, things I should do
not do, like what would be yourbest advice for adults of what
to do to help kids?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (28:56):
not do Like what would be your best
advice for adults of what to doto help kids.
So I think the first thingadults can do is work on their
own body image and if they'renot in a good place in terms of
their own body image, then fakeit till you make it.
Do not say disparaging thingsabout your body in front of
(29:19):
other young people, because itnormalizes that that, like
everyone hates everything abouttheir bodies, and I think many
people you know certainly of mygeneration I think I'm older
than you, but I would suspectthat you had a similar
experience where you grew up inespecially female-dominated
(29:41):
spaces where it was just normalfor people to criticize their
bodies, and then you learn thatsense of like everyone hates
their body.
That's normal, right, andthat's not what we want for
young people.
We want people to like theirbodies and want to take good
care of them and want them to berespected.
(30:03):
So I think that the first placeto start is really just, you
know, being careful not to beself-disparaging and certainly
not to be directly disparagingof other bodies either.
Danielle La Rose (30:17):
Yeah, that's great.
Okay, so I could literally talkto you all day long.
I have so many questions aboutall the research, all the things
, but I won't take up all yourtime because you're a busy human
.
So what would you, if you couldtell anyone, what would you
hope that they would whetherit's something in their head
right, that they're thinking allthe time, or that they're
(30:39):
seeing social media, whateverthat you wish that they would
turn down a little bit.
And then what do you wish?
That they would turn up alittle bit more?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (30:47):
So I think for turning down, we all need
to probably get a little bitbetter with how much we what we
call engage in body surveillance, which is like we don't need to
spend so much time critiquing,worrying about our appearance.
You know, I try to tell peoplelike, you know, look in the
(31:11):
mirror when you leave for theday or you leave the house, make
sure you have nothing stuck inyour teeth, and then, like try
not to think about it.
Right, like I'm not sayingnever look in a mirror or
anything.
That's unrealistic, I think.
But instead of sort ofconstantly feeling like, okay, I
have to keep checking, likejust less body surveillance,
(31:32):
less worry about it.
You know, do your hair, do yourmakeup, do your beauty routine,
do whatever makes you feel goodand then be done with it.
Right, like just don't thinkabout it anymore.
So sort of turn down theconstant like checking and
surveillance In terms of what wecan do more, I think that we
(31:55):
have to get better at when wetalk about our bodies, doing it
in a more positive way, right, Ithink everyone's so afraid to
sound like they're bragging orlike full of themselves, or you
know, we never say things thatare positive, right.
(32:15):
But I think, even if it's notlike I love my body, right I
mean, even if it's just like Idon't know I mean I've always
liked my hair right or just justget a little more comfortable,
sort of turning up, maybe somepositive talk.
If we're gonna talk aboutappearance issues to, um, you
(32:36):
know, keep it more positivethat's, that's great.
Danielle La Rose (32:39):
I will.
So turning turning down,turning up you heard it here.
First, let's do these things.
Thank you so much for beinghere on the podcast.
This was so helpful, soenlightening all the things.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
I appreciate you oh, thank you.
Dr. Charlotte Markey (32:57):
Thank you for having me.
Have you ever wondered what it'd be like to
sit down and be able to askquestions to someone who is a
real body image scientist, wholiterally studies body image and
eating behaviors?
Well, if you don't, I do.
Every single day I have dreamedof this day to sit down with
our guest, dr Charlotte Markey.
Because she's done it.
She is a body image scientistand she is passionate about
(00:24):
understanding how to help peoplehave a healthy relationship
with their bodies and food.
She's a psychology professor atRutgers University and a
research scientist who hasliterally published over a
hundred scholarly articles andchapters about health issues.
I mean, if we want to know thereal stuff, not just self-love
guru stuff on social media thatwe see, but research-based
(00:44):
information from an expert whois doing the work, who is in the
field, this is the person, andI'm so honored that she took the
minute to sit down 30 minutesto sit down with me, to where I
could ask the questions thatmany of you have sent in to me.
Can you love your body and wantto change it at the same time?
How can moms instill a positivebody image with their kiddos?
(01:06):
What about fitness and workouts?
How do we do that from apositive body image standpoint,
and I mean, does losing weightactually make us happy and what
does the research find aboutthat?
So I asked all the questions.
I could have talked to her forhours and hours and hours.
I was totally nerding out andnervous, but it was incredible.
(01:27):
I hope that you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I would love to hear yourthoughts.
I would love to hear how thistransforms your mindset a bit
more about your body image.
So let's jump right in.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast today.
I know that all the juicinessthat you're going to share is
going to help so many humans,including myself, because I'm so
(01:48):
excited to talk to you.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Dr. Charlotte Markey (01:52):
Oh, that's really generous.
I'm really happy to be here.
Danielle La Rose (01:55):
Yeah, okay.
So let's just jump in.
Let's tell me, like nittygritty, what is body image?
We hear a lot about bodypositivity and body neutrality
and all those popular things onsocial media, but what is body
image?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (02:12):
So I have a very broad view of body image,
and I think of body image asnot just how we think and feel
about our bodies, but really howwe treat our bodies, so our
sense of self-respect andself-compassion.
Our body image is also verymuch associated with our
(02:34):
behavioral health.
So what behaviors do we engagein concerning our bodies?
Do we nourish ourselvesadequately, for example?
Our social lives are very muchassociated with our sense of our
bodies.
What situations do we avoid?
What do we engage in?
(02:56):
A lot of that stems from howcomfortable we are in our own
bodies and, of course, ourmental health in general is
linked with our body image.
So not just eating disorders,but we know from decades of
research that your body image isassociated with your tendency
(03:17):
to experience things likedepression, anxiety, even
substance use problems.
Danielle La Rose (03:24):
And it's so interesting because I think if
you went on the street and justasked a lot of people what is
body image, right, I think somepeople would probably say, well,
it's just what you think aboutyour body.
End of discussion, that's it.
And so I love this whole.
It's like literally your wholeentire life affects, like that
is your body, your body image.
And I like I really appreciatethe word like comfortable, like
(03:46):
how comfortable do you feel inyour body?
And I don't think that's aquestion that we ask ourselves a
lot.
So tell me what.
So you're a body imageresearcher, so what?
What made you choose this field?
How did you get into it and saythat's the thing I'm going to
study for the rest of my life?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (04:05):
I don't think of any of us, that any of
us really know what we want todo for the rest of our lives,
usually when we're younger,right.
So I've just been lucky to endup on a path that continues to
(04:25):
interest me even after, you know, almost three decades at this
point.
But you know, I think there area lot of things I can point to
that helped put me on this path.
So, even as a young child, I wasa ballet dancer and I was just,
you know, immersed in a worldwhere there was a lot of body
scrutiny and I think thatimpacted how I thought about my
(04:45):
own body, how uncomfortable Iwas in my own body as a young
person, and also just made mevery aware of how people think
about and talk about theseissues, because in the ballet
world all of it was veryexplicit.
So you know, I think that inmany of our families or in other
(05:06):
social circles, some of thelanguage is more implied, it's
not always as explicit as it wasin the dance world.
So from a very young age, youknow, I heard what people
thought about my own and others'bodies.
So I think that just is part ofyou know what.
What drew me to the, the areaof study, and I think too, you
(05:31):
know, like there's always thingsthat are changing in our social
and cultural environments thatmake it new and interesting.
You know, social media didn'texist when I started this work.
Danielle La Rose (05:44):
Yeah.
And yeah, now that youmentioned that, what would you
say?
How has social media impactedbody image, or has it?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (05:54):
I mean, I think it has right, but that
wasn't something we knew wascoming Right Right.
I think that the way we presentourselves to the world on
social media is relevant andsocial media doesn't have to be
a negative experience, but formany people, especially young
(06:15):
people, when it comes to mentalhealth and body image, it can be
negative.
Danielle La Rose (06:20):
Yeah.
So what if you know?
Mom is listening right now andshe's like yes, of course social
media is the problem, but wealso know that that's the world
we live in and kids that's wherethey hang out, you know.
And so what can moms or justhumans in general that are
passionate about helping kidshave a more positive body image,
what can we do in regards tosocial media to try to help with
(06:44):
that?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (06:45):
image.
What can we do in regards tosocial media to try to help with
that?
Well, I talk about this a lotin Adultish and all of my body
image books because I think it'ssomething we really need to be
thoughtful about in order toprotect kids' mental health.
But also adults need to bethinking about these things in a
thoughtful way, and a lot of itis, I think, knowing how to
(07:07):
make all of these algorithmswork for us.
So one of the interesting thingsabout social media is that we
drive the algorithms to a largeextent right who we like, who we
follow we like, who we followwe click on.
(07:29):
Then we get more of that.
So we have to be careful wherewe're clicking, so to speak, if
we want to get informationthat's going to be adaptive,
that's going to beevidence-based, that's going to
be supportive of our mentalhealth.
So I think young people need tohear about that, need to be
really taught media literacy.
I mean, I think that this isprobably the most important and
(07:53):
completely neglected area ofpublic health right now is just
teaching young people medialiteracy, because if they're
going to go to social media forall health information, they
need to know how to decipherwhat's real and what's not.
Danielle La Rose (08:09):
Yeah, no, that's great, you know,
supporting a positive body image.
What are some things that youhave seen, have researched, have
like just know that, what iswhat is helpful for people to
(08:32):
see and what is not helpful?
You know, I've read a lot ofthings.
Right, If, if we, if we keepshowing our cellulite and our
wrinkles and our roles andsaying this is normal, all we're
doing is continuing to thinkabout our bodies, right, we're
not getting out of that mindsetof my body is the most important
thing.
So what would your response tothat be and what do you think
that we should be doing andsharing to help?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (08:52):
Well, I think it is important that we
see body diversity in media andpublic spaces, that we're not
just focused in on ideal bodiesthat no one can actually achieve
.
So I think it's okay sometimesto share some of our
imperfections or to be lesscurated in some of what we
(09:14):
present, but then we also knowthat even if we do present
what's more realistic, or if wedo present imagery and explain
it or label it you know some ofthe research suggests it can
still be depressing or upsettingto people.
So I think we have to be, youknow, just careful about what
(09:39):
we're presenting but also, likeyou said, not keep the focus
entirely on appearances, whichis hard, because a lot of these
media formats are just all aboutappearance, right, right.
Danielle La Rose (09:53):
Yeah, it's a picture, right.
We got to grab people'sattention to make them read.
So what can I post and share tomake it jaw?
Dropping that people want toread what I have to say,
dropping that people want toread what I have to say, right,
and so that balance is is verytricky.
So, based, like you justmentioned, with research, is
there anything that you'veyou've done your research has?
(10:20):
Maybe you went into it thinkingthis is going to be the outcome
and you found somethingcompletely different.
You know, one of the things Ilove about adultish your book is
how you pull out the myths.
Right, like, here are the mythsthat are being spread
everywhere about body image, andhere's actual facts based on
research.
So, have you been surprised byany?
Is there one thing that you'vebeen surprised by with your
research?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (10:38):
Yeah, I think I've been doing this for
so long that not a lot surprisesme anymore, but I do think that
something that tends tosurprise other people is, you
know, just some of the researchthat suggests that some of the
more inspirational type contentactually does not motivate
(11:01):
people or make them feel better,that it does tend to actually
elicit a more negative responseto viewers.
It's not inspiring, and I thinka lot of that's just because,
you know, when people are tryingto present themselves as like a
fitness expert, they look thepart typically, and most of us
(11:24):
will not look that part ever,because that's not what we do
for a living.
We're not like fitness expertsfor a living, most of us.
So we don't spend as much timeat the gym and we don't, you
know, focus on having likeperfectly toned arms or whatever
, because we have other thingsto do so so, so I do think that
(11:46):
that has been found in multiplestudies at this point, Okay, and
so I love that you went thereand I hope that it's okay that
I'm going to go here with you.
Danielle La Rose (11:56):
as someone who is part of the fitness world as
a group fitness instructor andtrainer, I am really curious to
know what you think.
If you could, you know, go talkto all trainers in the world
and be like stop doing this orstart doing that to help people
get and again we can define thisword next, but healthy, like
(12:16):
actual health what would youwish that?
You could just like grab themand shake them and say stop
doing this or do this.
Wish that you?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (12:23):
could just like grab them and shake them
and say, stop doing this or dothis.
I mean, I think you know it'sdifficult, because what catches
people's attention in mediaspaces is the extreme, and it's
the extreme that's unrealisticand impractical and not
sustainable for most people, andthat's true in terms of any
kind of like appearancemodification, it's true of
dieting, it's true of mostfitness regimens, right?
(12:52):
So I mean, I guess the messageI would want fitness
professionals putting out thereis more about, you know,
essentially moderation orenjoying activity, picking
things you like.
Yes, we know there's goodevidence that being active is
good for your body and your mind.
So that's not really thequestion.
I think it's more about how tohelp people find things they
(13:14):
like that they'll keep doing,that they won't necessarily
prioritize over other importantparts of their life.
So you know, those are not theextreme messages, though.
So it's hard to grab people'sattention with nuance.
Danielle La Rose (13:31):
Yeah, for sure , For sure, Absolutely Right.
You open, you go to any gym,you see any advertisement.
It's always the before andafter picture, right, Like this
is the goal.
This is what we're going forand I love.
I just had to pull out this one.
I won't get it exactly how yousaid it, but not prioritizing
that over other parts of yourlife.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about what you mean by that
(13:55):
?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (13:57):
Yeah.
So I think that you know a lotof times, right.
There's only so many hours inthe day.
We all have to make choices howwe're going to spend our time,
and I think it's important thatpeople are active if they can be
, if they're physically able,and yet it's not necessarily
(14:18):
more important than gettingenough sleep, it's not
necessarily more important than,you know, spending time with
your kids or your partner oryour friends, right?
So I think that you know wehave to be aware of doing, kind
of all the things that we canthat are important to us, not
(14:41):
just physically butpsychologically.
And, of course, I'm trained as apsychologist, so I'm going to
think about that more, right?
Like I'm not just thinkingabout physical health, I'm
thinking about mental health,and I'm also thinking about how,
when people try to changebehaviors, like you know, when
the new year comes andeveryone's number one resolution
(15:05):
is get in shape, right, yearafter year after year, there's a
reason why people pick the sameyear's resolution year after
year after year, and it'sbecause they can't maintain it,
right?
So, as someone who has studiedbehavior change, I like to think
about it in terms of like, well, what could you actually
maintain?
(15:25):
What would actually besatisfying and rewarding to you
and not neglect those otherareas of your life that should
also be important to you.
Danielle La Rose (15:34):
Yeah, oh, might drop right there.
I love that so much Cause I dothink when people, when we do go
trying to make a behaviorchange, we drop everything and
it's like that is number onefocus and if we really think
about it in our life, likethat's probably not our top
priority, right, like having sixpack abs for me is not a top
priority, but I might spend mywhole time and energy trying to
achieve that because that's whatI've been sold and told that I
(15:57):
should be doing.
So I love, I love that.
Now one question that a lot ofpeople, when I go on my tangents
and I start, you know, quotingbooks like adult-ish, they
always say well, can you, canyou love your body and want to
change it at the same time?
What would be your response tothat?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (16:17):
Yeah, I love this question.
It's something I I don't thinkI struggle with in answering for
myself, but I feel likesometimes it's hard to provide a
compelling answer to otherpeople because a lot of people
think these are mutuallyexclusive, and I think an
analogy can be helpful here.
So the analogy I like to use isyou know, like, I've been
(16:42):
studying in my chosen field formany, many years and I think I'm
reasonably intelligent in thisarea, right?
So I am content and sort ofaccepting of what I know in my I
guess you know intelligence orwhatever.
But also I'm continuallyreading.
But also I'm continuallyreading, I'm continually trying
(17:17):
to learn more, and that's notbecause I think I'm inadequate
in any way, it's because I wantto improve still.
It's because I want to learnwhat's new or what's better
ourselves in other domains in asimilar way.
That that can be a usefulapproach, right, like I can
think, I generally like my body,I'm pretty comfortable in my
own skin.
But you know and this is true,as I'm getting older, I do think
(17:38):
more about my strength and ummaking sure that for the long
haul this body is going to carryme through life, and so when I
was younger I didn't care aboutlike strength training at all,
and it's not my favorite thingto do, but it's something I
think about more now because, um, even though I don't feel, like
(17:59):
you know, I'm not aiming forlike a six pack Um, like you
know, I'm not aiming for like asix pack I still want my core
strength to help support me.
Danielle La Rose (18:11):
So if I fall or something I don't break a hip
, right, yeah.
And I I love that you said thattoo, because I just recently
went to the doctor and was like,oh, my lower back is hurting.
And she says do some coreexercise, right, we want, we
need strength, and so it's oneof those things where a lot of
times you know from myexperience, right, I only heard
women and people talking aboutgoing to the gym and working out
(18:31):
just to lose weight.
It wasn't to have a strong core, it wasn't to be strong, it
wasn't to help our bones, it wasjust a tool to lose weight.
Same with food Food was a toolto lose weight, it wasn't a way
to nourish your body and feelbetter and have energy and all
of those things.
And I really liked that part ofyour book, too, where you
(18:52):
mentioned that you know a lot ofpeople, when they start
thinking about intuitive eatingor different things like that,
we think that, oh well, you justdo whatever you want, right?
And in your book you talk a lotabout these things of no like.
When you actually listen toyour body, it will tell you what
it needs and how like, and so Ijust really appreciate those
(19:13):
pieces too.
That are so, so helpful.
I know this is a book for youngadults.
I'm not considered a youngadult, but this book is so good
so I've been telling moms andeveryone like you should read
this, because it just touches onthose things.
That's so, so, so important.
I want to kind of go back alittle when we were talking
about fitness and weight.
I think a lot of people havethis conception that if I just
(19:38):
lose weight right and I getcloser to those beauty standards
that are set, I might not reachthem right, because we know
we're never going to reach those, but I get closer to that, that
means I'll be happier, I'll behealthier, I'll have a positive
body image.
So can you talk a little bitabout how do we work on our body
(20:00):
image?
Or is it something that apositive body image will come
when I lose weight, or what doesthat nuance look like?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (20:08):
So I think that the message we're sold,
typically in the media andespecially when it comes to
different products and plans, islike you need to change
yourself, and once you changeyourself you'll feel good about
yourself.
In other words, there's allthese things that are wrong with
(20:29):
you, so work on them and thenyou'll feel good.
And, of course, none of us areperfect.
All of us have things wrongwith ourselves, whether it be,
you know, psychologically orphysically or whatever, right, I
mean, none of us are perfect,but I mean the goal is not
perfection.
So, you know, I think most ofthe data suggest that body image
(20:55):
is much more psychological andmuch less dependent on um, on
our physical appearance, thanpeople realize.
And so sort of building up thatsense of comfort with who we
are is a mental process morethan something we can, you know,
achieve by transforming ourexternal self.
(21:19):
And you know, some of the goodevidence for this comes from, I
think, the eating disorderliterature, the body dysmorphia
literature that you know there'sa lot of research to suggest
that when people start to changetheir appearance, they don't
(21:40):
tend to feel better.
They then tend to want tochange it more.
So it's not like oh, I lostfive pounds, great, I feel good.
Now.
It's like now I want to losefive more pounds, right.
And the same thing we even seewhen people pursue cosmetic
surgery.
It's not like, oh, I fixed mynose, fix being in quotes here,
(22:07):
you know, great, I'm done.
No, it's.
Then usually people go back.
Repeat customers are thelargest segment of cosmetic
surgery consumers.
So I fix again in quotes Ifixed my nose, all right, now I
want to fix my stomach, right.
So there's never really an endpoint is the problem.
(22:27):
And so if you think about itlike, oh, I have to do all these
external things and then I'llfeel good, I think you're
setting yourself up for like avery, very long process.
And so we really want to thinkmore about like, can we work on
our mental health and shoring upour sense of security with
(22:50):
ourselves, regardless of what'sgoing on, sort of on the outside
?
Danielle La Rose (22:57):
Okay, so let's say I wake up today with a poor
body image, right?
I've heard you talk about thisa lot.
You know, just because someonesays that they love and
appreciate their body doesn'tmean that every single day they
wake up and they're like I lovemy body, right?
So let's say I wake up todaynegative body image.
I'm just really in a funk.
What would be?
Are there tips and strategiesand things that work for people
(23:21):
to help them?
You know, even just throughoutthe day maybe not long term,
maybe that's a bigger process,but just in the day are there
things that people can do tohelp with their body image?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (23:31):
So it's important when we have those
days because we all have thosedays to regard ourselves very
compassionately, so toacknowledge it, like, okay, I
don't feel great today, everyonehas these days.
I'm not going to do anythingdrastic.
This isn't about punishingmyself for feeling this way,
(23:55):
because feeling this way ispretty normal.
I'm going to do things thatmight make me feel better, right
?
So for me that means I do tryto be active, because I usually
just feel better if I go on awalk or a run.
Right?
Irrespective of my you knowtemporary sense of body image,
(24:18):
those things help boost mymental health.
So I may make a pointeddecision like, okay, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna do those things, I'mgonna move something around so I
can fit that into my schedule.
You can also just dresscomfortably, like, just those
are good days to throw on acomfy sweatshirt or, um, you
(24:42):
know, just allow yourself to becomfortable so that you can help
to mitigate that sense of maybejust feeling less at ease, as
you would want to.
And sometimes it's even justabout distracting yourself,
right?
I mean, if I wake up and I'mnot feeling like I'm bringing my
(25:05):
A game, you know, sometimes ithelps me.
Just get to work, just startdoing what I'm doing and then I
think about it less, I'mdistracted, you know.
So these are kind of in someways just good coping techniques
for any kind of a bad day.
I think right, like, do thingsthat make you happy.
And for some people that maymean like call a friend or text
(25:28):
a friend and say like hey, canyou do lunch today or do you
want to grab coffee thisafternoon?
Really quick, I need like ahalf hour break, or you know
whatever works for you.
Danielle La Rose (25:38):
Yeah, and I think it's really important that
you share that.
You know you said there arebasic coping mechanisms, but I,
a lot of people don't thinkabout, you know, if they have a
poor body image day, right,they're just not feeling the
best.
That that's need for copingmechanisms, like doing something
that brings you joy, or movingyour body or taking your mind
(25:58):
off of it by doing somethingelse.
I don't think we think aboutthat.
I think I guess I'm speakingfor myself.
Right, several years ago, Iwould wake up and just be like I
just don't like this about mybody at all.
I'm going to stress about itall day.
But this is normal because,right, like a lot of women
experience this I've heard thisall growing up that you know we
(26:20):
complain about our legs, wecomplain about our bellies, we
complain about all these things,and that's just the way that it
is, and so I would have neverthought to just say I can do
something.
Right, I think we have more.
What you're sharing, I think,tells us that we have more
control than we think that we do.
Right, when we have thosethoughts that we can do
something, like we don't havecontrol but we can do something
(26:43):
about it.
It doesn't have to just be theway that it is right.
Dr. Charlotte Markey (26:48):
I think that's right, but I think we
have to be careful in thinkingabout control, because our
bodies are going to changeacross our lifetime, no matter
what we do.
Like we don't have completecontrol, right, because our
bodies are aging every day, andespecially for women, if they
experience, you know, pregnancyor are raising young children
(27:12):
and dealing with a postpartumbody or dealing with
perimenopause or menopause.
I mean, there's just a lot oftimes in our lives where we
don't have total control.
We can cope, we can do thosethings we talked about, and I
would say that for most people,those are pretty adaptive coping
(27:32):
strategies and we want to tryto avoid maladaptive coping
strategies.
And we want to try to avoidmaladaptive coping strategies,
which is then, you know, maybewaking up and feeling really
uncomfortable and bloated orsomething, and thinking I'm not
going to have breakfast or I'mgoing to, you know.
You know not nourish myselfproperly, because this is how I
(27:54):
feel.
Or you know not nourish myselfproperly because this is how I
feel.
Or you know, over exercise orwhatever it may be right.
So there's certainly moreadaptive ways, right, like
connecting with someone sociallyor distracting yourself, right.
These are usually adaptivecoping strategies, but we don't
want to let our our sort of moreneurotic brains take us to
(28:19):
maladaptive places.
Danielle La Rose (28:21):
Yeah, thank you for pointing that out.
Yeah, control wasn't the rightword, right?
So we're focused on the actions, right, knowing that we have
the ability to take actions thatcan help us to feel better with
those thoughts, thank you,that's great.
Okay, so let's say I'm a mom,or, again, just a human who
works with littles, and I wantto, you know, make sure that I'm
(28:44):
doing things that aresupportive.
Are there things that I shouldsay, not say, things I should do
not do, like what would be yourbest advice for adults of what
to do to help kids?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (28:56):
not do Like what would be your best
advice for adults of what to doto help kids.
So I think the first thingadults can do is work on their
own body image and if they'renot in a good place in terms of
their own body image, then fakeit till you make it.
Do not say disparaging thingsabout your body in front of
(29:19):
other young people, because itnormalizes that that, like
everyone hates everything abouttheir bodies, and I think many
people you know certainly of mygeneration I think I'm older
than you, but I would suspectthat you had a similar
experience where you grew up inespecially female-dominated
(29:41):
spaces where it was just normalfor people to criticize their
bodies, and then you learn thatsense of like everyone hates
their body.
That's normal, right, andthat's not what we want for
young people.
We want people to like theirbodies and want to take good
care of them and want them to berespected.
(30:03):
So I think that the first placeto start is really just, you
know, being careful not to beself-disparaging and certainly
not to be directly disparagingof other bodies either.
Danielle La Rose (30:17):
Yeah, that's great.
Okay, so I could literally talkto you all day long.
I have so many questions aboutall the research, all the things
, but I won't take up all yourtime because you're a busy human
.
So what would you, if you couldtell anyone, what would you
hope that they would whetherit's something in their head
right, that they're thinking allthe time, or that they're
(30:39):
seeing social media, whateverthat you wish that they would
turn down a little bit.
And then what do you wish?
That they would turn up alittle bit more?
Dr. Charlotte Markey (30:47):
So I think for turning down, we all need
to probably get a little bitbetter with how much we what we
call engage in body surveillance, which is like we don't need to
spend so much time critiquing,worrying about our appearance.
You know, I try to tell peoplelike, you know, look in the
(31:11):
mirror when you leave for theday or you leave the house, make
sure you have nothing stuck inyour teeth, and then, like try
not to think about it.
Right, like I'm not sayingnever look in a mirror or
anything.
That's unrealistic, I think.
But instead of sort ofconstantly feeling like, okay, I
have to keep checking, likejust less body surveillance,
(31:32):
less worry about it.
You know, do your hair, do yourmakeup, do your beauty routine,
do whatever makes you feel goodand then be done with it.
Right, like just don't thinkabout it anymore.
So sort of turn down theconstant like checking and
surveillance In terms of what wecan do more, I think that we
(31:55):
have to get better at when wetalk about our bodies, doing it
in a more positive way, right, Ithink everyone's so afraid to
sound like they're bragging orlike full of themselves, or you
know, we never say things thatare positive, right.
(32:15):
But I think, even if it's notlike I love my body, right I
mean, even if it's just like Idon't know I mean I've always
liked my hair right or just justget a little more comfortable,
sort of turning up, maybe somepositive talk.
If we're gonna talk aboutappearance issues to, um, you
(32:36):
know, keep it more positivethat's, that's great.
Danielle La Rose (32:39):
I will.
So turning turning down,turning up you heard it here.
First, let's do these things.
Thank you so much for beinghere on the podcast.
This was so helpful, soenlightening all the things.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
I appreciate you oh, thank you.
Dr. Charlotte Markey (32:57):
Thank you for having me.
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