July 25, 2023 • 51 mins
Meet Paul Thomas, a front-of-house sound engineer who became an animal rescue hero during the pandemic. With his touring skills, a van, and a lot of love for dogs, Paul crafted an innovative solution he calls 'Roadies and Rescues'. This incredible initiative transports rescue animals from overpopulated areas to places with fewer animals, giving the animals a second chance at life, while providing purpose for those in the concert industry affected by the pandemic.
Our conversation traces the evolution of Roadies and Rescues, revealing how challenges can give birth to extraordinary opportunities. As the pandemic wreaked havoc on the touring industry, Paul turned to volunteering at a senior dog sanctuary in Petaluma. His love for dogs and his touring skills merged as he began relocating rescue animals, becoming part of the rescue by relocation movement. We also evaluate the lasting impact of the pandemic on the touring industry and explore how Paul's transport program for Second Chance Pet Rescue became a beacon of hope.
Our dialogue also underscores the deep bond between humans and dogs and how it could be harnessed for the benefit of the music industry. With a vision of backstage doggy play yards at Coachella, we discuss the abundant opportunities to raise awareness about adoptable dogs, overcrowding issues in local shelters, and the potential for rescue dogs to aid in mental health. Join us for an enlightening conversation where the world of touring merges with animal rescue, creating a harmonious symphony of hope and second chances.
Roadies & Rescues Facebook
Roadies & Rescues GoFundMe
Interview with: Paul Thomas
Things that make you say "Wow"!
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Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Rodies.
They're the crew that brings usthe music we love, the crew
that manages the musical gear,sets up the stage, ensures that
the band sounds clean and thenswiftly packs up everything for
the next venue.
I make it sound easy and I'msure I'm missing a million steps
.
I recognize that Rodiesundertake a massive endeavor to
(00:21):
bring us live music.
Ugh, live music.
Oh.
So many good times, so manyunforgettable concerts, yeah,
okay.
So now let's shift gears to thewonderful world of dogs.
There's nothing quite like them.
And just when you think livemusic and dogs have nothing in
common, enter a worldwidepandemic that brings everything
(00:43):
to a standstill.
At first glance, these threeelements may seem unrelated Live
music, dogs and a pandemic.
However, our next guest, paulThomas, has managed to find a
connection.
Combining his passion for dogs,unwavering dedication to his
art and a positive outlookduring the pandemic, he has
(01:05):
created something remarkableRodies and Rescues Hi everyone,
it's Vanessa from Two Chicks anda Ho, the podcast that brings
you amazing people doing greatthings in our world.
I didn't have to look forward tofind another person doing
something fantastic.
Allow me to introduce PaulThomas, a front-of-house sound
(01:28):
engineer who has established anorganization that leverages
skills from the music industryto provide an essential service,
not just for dogs but also forpeople within the music
community.
Music.
(01:53):
Hey everybody.
It's Vanessa from Two Chicksand a Ho, the podcast about
amazing people doing incrediblethings in the world.
I'm sitting in a really specialplace right now with one of
those amazing people, so youmight hear some of our visitors
come by.
(02:13):
We're sitting in a dog park inMountain View, california, and
I'm sitting here with PaulThomas, who has an amazing
connection to dogs.
That's why we thought we'd cometo a dog park and you know, if
they come over, that's evenbetter if they chat with us for
a bit.
But hi, paul, welcome andthanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, welcome.
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Good.
So I found out about Paul via afriend that said, Vanessa, you
have to meet this person.
He's doing really incrediblethings with dogs.
I'm like, oh, wow, you know.
Hey, tell me about dogs,Anything to do with dogs.
You guys know, that's like mymost favorite animal.
Paul does something reallyspecial.
So Paul, tell us about thisgroup called Roadies and Rescues
(02:59):
.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, roadies and Rescues is something that I
started when the concertindustry was shut down during
the pandemic.
I used to be a roadieprofessionally which was touring
with bands as an audio engineer, and it was sort of born out of
the idea that there were a lotof people from the concert
industry like myself who weresuddenly very abruptly left
(03:23):
unemployed and the idea was tostart recruiting people from the
concert industry to give themsomething to do and something
positive to focus their energyon and get them involved in
helping transport rescue animalsNot just dogs but sometimes
cats as well, but basicallytransporting rescue animals from
(03:44):
overpopulated areas like theCentral Valley of California up
to places where they didn't havethe overpopulation problems in
Oregon and Washington wherethere are rescue organizations,
where oftentimes the people whorun those rescues up there are
saying we have more goodapplicants and homes than we
have actual animals, not animals.
(04:06):
Yeah.
So I certainly did not inventthe idea or the concept.
I just found out about it whilethe pandemic was happening.
And since I was unemployed andhad two vans sitting in my
driveway and I used to do a lotof touring, I figured this is a
world I could take a sort of alittle side route or a detour
(04:28):
into doing this.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So this is kind of a good thing that came out of the
pandemic.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
For me?
Yeah, it definitely was.
I had a next girlfriend up inSacramento Was the person who
really got me sort of there wego, there's our friends.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, that's what we like.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
An ex-girlfriend up in Sacramento had she had been
doing a lot of fostering for oneof the shelters up in the
Sacramento area, and that waswhat sort of began to open my
eyes and sort of gave me aglimpse into the world of animal
rescue.
And it was really only aboutjust like about three months
before the actual shutdownoccurred in the pandemic.
(05:17):
It was in just around lateNovember or early December of
2019.
I had just started volunteeringas just a once a week volunteer
at a senior dog sanctuary up inPetaluma where I was living,
and then, you know, lo andbehold, three, three and a half
months later, everything sort ofhit the fan, and so I was
(05:41):
already just starting to kind ofget into that world of animal
rescue and volunteering withanimals.
The pandemic being what it was,it's hard to really say that it
was a yes, it was a good thingthat came out of a lot of
Looking for the silver lining.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, exactly there was a there.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, I was able to.
I was able to take lemons andmake lemonade.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Right, right.
So that process of doing that.
So, as a roadie, myunderstanding is and I don't
know if our listeners know aboutthis or not but as a roadie,
you're the one that takes allthe gear to the next concert
venue for the band, that kind ofa thing, and we're dogs and you
(06:25):
have space then for dogs.
That's what it sounds like.
That's my interpretation ofwhat's going on here.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, yeah, so not in the sense that we're doing it
actually in between concerts orevents, but when everything was
completely shut down, Ibasically was able to take a
skill set from when I was on theroad.
Basically, it was a prettynormal day in the touring world
(06:53):
that you would wake up in Denver, let's say, and you'd have to
get your day started at 7o'clock in the morning because
you're going to drive fromDenver all the way to Kansas
City and it might be like eightor nine hours of driving and
then after the eight or ninehours of driving, you have to
load all of the equipment in,set everything up, do a sound
(07:13):
check, go eat dinner, the bandputs on the actual performance,
they do the show, you tear itall down and then by 2 in the
morning you're heading to ahotel room, and so I'm already
acclimated to and understand theidea of waking up in a
different town every day andfacing another 16 or 18 hour day
(07:35):
of work on fairly minimal sleep.
So that was kind of the skill,if you want to call it a skill,
but that was part of the skillset.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
That seemed to translate well to this idea of
what the hashtag as rescue byrelocation, because so the idea
so three months you're intopotentially volunteering with
dogs and then three months inthe pandemic starts.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, and so the whole concert world gets shut
down.
The concert venue that I workedat in San Francisco was closed,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And a lot of free time on your hands, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
A lot of free time and a couple empty vans parked
in the driveway, and so Ifigured, once I started to
understand, that there was thisunderground movement of people
who would relocate these dogs.
It's so well then, that justnaturally seen it.
So, again, it's within my skillset, I've got a vehicle to do
it and I've got ample time.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Good combination then .
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Good combination.
So when did it actually start?
When did the first, I guess,group of dogs get?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
transported by you.
Gosh, it's hard to evenremember and pin it all down,
because when everything is shutdown for the pandemic, I was
still able to go once a week formy three hour shift and still
could go volunteer Becauseanimal rescue is considered an
essential service.
(09:02):
Right, right so even though it'snot like food service or
working in a grocery store orwhatever, it is considered an
essential service.
And it was something where thatparticular rescue had taken a
lot of precautions as well.
So they were starting to scaleback the number of volunteers
that could be on the property atthe same time and people were
wearing masks indoors andeverything.
So it gave me something tostill look forward to and it got
(09:27):
me out of the house withoutreally giving me any real high
risk exposure to other people.
So I was still continuing to dothat and with that organization
they needed.
Occasionally they would say, hey, there's a dog down at the that
we're interested in rescuing.
That's in the shelter inModesto.
Would you mind driving downthere?
(09:49):
And it was funny because theywould say it's going to take you
two hours to get there, thenyou have to deal with everything
at the front desk and actuallygetting the dog and then it's
going to take a couple hours toget back.
It's a big part of you and Iwas like that's a big part of my
day.
I'm like that's like a third,that's like a third of my normal
day back when I was a touringperson and I've actually been
(10:10):
off the road for 10 years.
I actually stopped touring atthe end of 2012 after about six
or seven years of pretty heavilybeing out on the road, at least
around anywhere from four tosix months out of the year,
which is for a lot of roadiesthat's actually not that heavy
of a schedule.
I know a lot of people who areon the road nine months out of
(10:30):
the year maybe even 10 monthsout of the year, but just being
able to always recall that Iknow that when push comes to
shove, if someone asks me andsays, hey, can we have a
situation where this band'svehicle broke down, they have to
get a rental.
We need someone to take theirgear as soon as their van is
(10:55):
fixed.
Bring the trailer of all oftheir stuff from San Francisco
to Boise, idaho, and it's got tohappen by tomorrow.
That I was somebody that peopleat different management
companies would call me.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So I get that that's just a fraction of potentially.
I mean like a 16 hour dayconsisting of a lot of driving.
So to be asked to do somethinglike that really wasn't that big
of a deal for you in terms oftime.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, in terms of time, I can put in those kind of
hours and I can put in thosedays, like I said.
As I was saying before the dogscame over people, even though
I've been off the road for quitea few years, probably at least
once a year I'll still get acall from a management company
somewhere and they'll say hey,something's come up and we need
you to.
Can you drive overnight, takethis band's gear when they
(11:45):
finish up their show at theFillmore and then hustle it down
to LA first thing in themorning, because as soon as
their show at the Fillmore isdone they have to fly somewhere
and do some promotional thingand then fly and meet you.
It's just like really weird,crazy hectic schedule.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So that's kind of the life of a roadie, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's different levels of
things.
A lot of people, when theystart out in the touring side of
the industry, they might bestarting out most likely they're
kind of getting their feet wet.
In like the van and trailertour a circuit where it's bands
who don't have a lot of money,they don't have a lot of crew.
You might be the only personthey have is you might be there,
(12:23):
one sort of like catch-all,sort of like quote unquote
roadie, and you're the personwho helps.
Do like you're driving the vanpart of the day, you're setting
up the merch table, you'reunloading the gear and setting
up the gear and maybe you'reeven helping out with doing
sound or whatever, and you'reall crammed into a van and
you're pulling a trailer andyou're driving around the
country and you're doing clubsand you're playing for 100 to
(12:44):
maybe 300 people a night.
But then as you get, as thebands become more successful and
they're selling more ticketsand they're selling more merch
and they're playing largervenues, then they might scale up
to the point where they'reactually touring on a large tour
bus and you have a person who'sjust a commercial, you know,
like a CDL license holder, andthat's all they do is they drive
semis and tour buses and sothen at that point you actually
(13:08):
get to sleep in a bunk at nightand you don't have to drive
overnight and put in kind of ascrazy hours.
But generally speaking, thosejust sort of really really long
days at all different levels.
I mean, I've even done thingstoo where I've toured with acts
where for maybe three or fourmonths in a row all we were
doing is flying to every gig andwe were just doing stuff on the
(13:30):
weekends, and so that's sort ofthe same way, because now you
spend almost as much time in theairport security lines as you
do on the actual plane.
You're still, it soundsluxurious and it sounds easy,
because you're like, oh yeah,we're going to fly to this
college in Maryland and do a gigand then fly back the next day,
but it still ends up being likea 16 or 17 hour day because of
(13:52):
all the time you spend in theairport.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So okay, so now tell me, I get your background.
How did they dogs, how did theanimals get involved?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, so, as I was mentioning before, I had just
started volunteering at a placeright before everything kind of
got locked down in the wholeconcert industry, kind of
nationwide, was really put onhold.
And then I don't even reallyremember how it began, but
somehow I had seen something onFacebook about somebody needing
(14:24):
to transport an animal somewhere.
And a lot of times withinCalifornia there will be rescue
organizations who they mightjust like pull.
Maybe they're like a specialty,like, let's say, it's a German
shepherd rescue, and they'll sayhey we heard that there's a
German shepherd at thisparticular shelter that needs to
get out before because it's atrisk of being euthanized,
because it's been there so longand so they might just like send
(14:47):
someone down to pick up thatdog and bring it back.
So what I began to notice as Iwas joining like these Facebook
groups of like these sort oflike informal, loosely organized
groups of people who helped outwith volunteering, with this
transport stuff, is that youwould see something where, like,
let's say that they have a dogin Stockton and there's a rescue
(15:11):
in, let's say, reading, just afew hours away, who wants to get
the dog?
Well, a lot of the people werestill employed or had other
commitments, or they have kidsto take care of or whatever, and
so someone would say, oh well,I can pick up, I'm in Stockton,
I can pick up the dog inStockton and I can drive it up
(15:31):
to Sacramento, if someone cantake the dog from Sacramento.
Then somebody else in the groupwould say, well, I'm in
Sacramento, so I'll take the dogfrom Sacramento to Chico, and
then someone would say, well, Ican get the dog from.
So there would be a lot ofhandoffs and it would just take
incrementally a lot longer thanit really should have Right and
kind of stressful on the animaltoo and then that's my main
(15:54):
concern is that, right away, thething that I identified was
that there's you have two bigrisks with the number of
handoffs.
Every time there's a transferfrom one vehicle to another,
there's a chance that thestressed out dog could bite
somebody right, or that the dogcould run away and escape in a
foreign, you know, in a townwhere it doesn't you know, it
(16:14):
could get lost, totally lost,yeah.
So when I looked at thatsituation and I just said, well,
hey guys, I'm unemployed and Ihave a van and I can put a crate
in my van, why don't I justcome pick up the dog in Stockton
, drive it to Redding and thenI'll just drive home to Petaluma
, and people were like, oh mygosh, if you'll do the whole
(16:35):
thing, that would be amazing.
And so I quickly realized that,with the time constraints that
other people had and all of thefactors that were leading to
where it was kind of common,there would be these like
firemen brigade of, like handingoff the bucket of water, you
know, to put out the fire Irealized that in a lot of ways
(16:55):
it would just make more sensefor me just to step in and just
do the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I was quite wowed by the connection and the bond that
Paul has with dogs.
And then, of course, I realizedthat so many of us have that
bond with the dogs in our lives.
So I asked a couple of myfriends about their dogs and
their relationships with them.
It means everything.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I love having the dog .
It's like having another familymember that you love, but
unconditional love.
She keeps me alive.
I live for her to a greatextent.
I walk and hike every day withher twice a day.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
She keeps me going because I'm retired, so that's
kind of how this started.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So that was already happening in the background of
my life in the first maybe fouror five months of the pandemic
Got it and then it was about sixmonths in.
It was around maybe Septemberof 2020 when they announced that
the Coachella Festival in 2021was going to be altogether
(18:06):
either canceled or, at the verybest case scenario, it would be
postponed until something likeOctober of 2021.
Okay, and I realized this likeoh, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh, that's what we still had hopes.
Yeah, yeah, doing stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And so once they announced that that was
happening and my first thoughtwas, okay, the people at Golden
Voice who've been putting onthis you know the Coachella
Festival for, like you know, 25to 30 years now.
I realized they may not have thegovernors, might not be on
speed dial, but they definitelyknow people close enough to the
(18:44):
people in the government andthey probably have a pretty good
inside track on, like, how longthis thing is really going to
drag out, right, and I thought,if they're, if they're saying
six months from now that they'renot going to have Coachella
happening, then I was like thisthing's actually this is going
to be going on for a while.
And then it dawned on me oh, myfriend Matt, who he's worked
(19:09):
for Golden Voice and he was intheir transportation department
and he's worked for them for 15years.
I thought, oh man, well, Iguess Matt's not going to be
going back into the festivalworld next year.
And then it just sort of likeall kind of hit me at once and I
went man, all these people thatI know, all these roadies and
all these touring people that Iknow are still going to be
(19:30):
unemployed, like you know, ayear from now.
This could be going on.
And then that's when I was like, okay, this is starting to make
sense now.
And Matt, who I've known sincethe early 90s I mean, I already
known him for 30 years at thatpoint and and he's a longtime
(19:50):
vegan and animal lover andeverything and I went, oh you
know what?
Okay, I've got an idea.
And if there's anybody who Iwant to partner up with me to do
this, I need to go sit down andtalk to Matt.
So we, you know, we sat downand we had lunch and I said,
look, I've got this concept for,for like what will eventually
turn into a nonprofit and I wantto do this thing, and I want
(20:12):
this to be something that notonly helps animals but helps
people in the concert industryand gives them something
meaningful to do.
You know, won't be like aneveryday thing and even if we're
a nonprofit, we can'tnecessarily afford to pay them.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Right, but it gives them purpose, but it gives them
purpose.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And it gives them something to look forward to.
Yes, so important.
Yeah, it's a so really so.
So kind of baked into what westarted talking about from day
one was this sort of a mentalhealth component, because
another thing that you know isvery much related is that anyone
(20:48):
who's ever toured as they'refor their living and that's how
they actually were, it was theircareer and it was.
It's not just your career, itbecomes your lifestyle as well.
Anyone who does that for aliving definitely knows that
post tour depression is a very,very real and significant thing.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
That's that getting high, that's that high of of
what you're doing and then itbeing over, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Very, then, all of a sudden, very abruptly being over
and even to put the word highon, it is, it is.
It's a very emotional high.
Touring is a very intense, it'sa very, it's very difficult.
You really, as you go throughthe ranks of the touring world,
you quickly separate the wheatfrom the chaff and you find out
who's not cut out for that sortof thing and who is.
(21:38):
And then, once you distill itdown to where you've got a good
core of people, when you're onthe road of people, they
immediately become like yourfamily.
Everybody has to like bandtogether against all the you
know problems and difficultiesthat come up on a daily basis.
You're just every day on theroad.
Different challenges are thrownat you all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And these are the people that you lean on and
depend on.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Absolutely.
And then all of a sudden, toursover one day and then, and you
might have tours lined up, butyou might be suddenly going from
like, oh, we just did like aseven week tour and now we're
going to go home for four weeks,and then we've got this
European leg of the tour afterthat for four weeks.
But it's those weird intervalsin between where it's really
hard to come home decompressfrom the intensity of everything
(22:25):
you've done.
And then what do you do?
Do you like pick up a job for afew weeks at a club while
you're home doing productionwork or doing?
sound or lights or whatever youdo, or do you just sort of like
live off of the money you justmade?
You know, it's a really.
There's a lot of anxiety andtrying to figure out how to like
briefly reintegrate into normallife, knowing that in five
(22:48):
weeks you're going right backout on tour again, right, right.
So it's a very it's a.
Emotionally it's a.
It's a very difficult lifecycle.
It's a very difficult lifestylein a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
This is, and this is pre pandemic, of course.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh yeah, that was normal.
This is right, this is normal.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, that was, that was what you just said, is that
it's a different kind oflifestyle and challenging?
Yeah, it's, yeah, that's justwhen the.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
That was just when things were back, you know, in a
normal way.
So, yeah, it's a, it's a.
It's a very challenginglifestyle and we were
anticipating again.
From our very first discussion,I said, look, I had this idea
and I had this concept, andhere's we talked about all the
long range, here's how we couldgrow this and this is what it
could eventually become, andpart of it was some day.
(23:34):
Whether it's six months fromnow or whether it's two years
from now, at some point theconcert industry is going to
come back.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Now this is let me.
Let's clarify that, thoughthat's what was said a couple
years ago when you started thisconcept.
Yeah, this is not now becauseit's back.
Yeah, this is in.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
September of 2020.
Got it Okay got it when, again,like we're finding out that
Coachella of 2021 is going to becanceled or postponed and so we
really don't know, like nowwe're really thinking this is
could drag on for a long time,right, but we knew from day one
that, even once the concertworld came back and Rodies were
(24:11):
back to being employed and backto doing what they normally do
and going back to their normallifestyle, that what we were
planning to do with Rodies andRescues would still be relevant
in their life.
Because when you come home forthat three weeks or six weeks or
whatever, and you're facing thepossibility of all of that
anxiety and a post tourdepression and really crashing-
(24:31):
from that high that we could besomething that you could at
least look forward to, that youwould have something fulfilling
or you know that you're helpingthese animals and you're doing
something that's very purposedriven and it's not just about
like a paycheck or anythingRight?
So we knew that long term thiswas still going to be relevant,
(24:53):
even after concerts came back.
We never thought that, likethis was a temporary thing, just
for during the pandemic and Ilove the idea.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I have to say this, paul I love the idea that, as
much as I love dogs, but thiswas a really, like you said, for
mental health, for humans aswell, so the two things at once,
that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, once we hit on it and we really
started talking about it andfleshing out the idea and we
were just, you know, spent acouple hours just batting all
these ideas back and forth.
We both knew that this wasabsolutely a viable, solid idea,
even after concerts came back.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Perfect, good, good.
So tell me now concerts areback.
Well, yeah, concerts are backand they are back in a big way.
Now here's.
Yeah, tell me, there's a caveathere.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, so this is now.
This is where, uh, things havenot gone according to plan and
we are still very much pushingthis bolder uphill.
Uh, and it's a very uh, it's avery steep hill hole right now.
Uh, one of the things that Icould not have anticipated is
that a lot of people who are inthe touring industry are not w
(26:12):
two employees, meaning that theydo not get a paycheck with a
stub attached that shows thatthey've paid all of these like
federal taxes.
Most of them are ten, ninety,nine people.
Okay, in a lot of cases, andwhat happened is because a lot
of those folks were ten, ninety,nine uh employees, or ten
ninety nine could be there, not,please.
(26:33):
They're actually consideredindependent contractors.
They could not qualify in anystate to receive any kind of
unemployment when the pandemichappened.
So what happened is, accordingto the industry statistics that
I've read, somewhere aroundfifty five to sixty percent of
people that used to beprofessional roadies left the
(26:56):
industry permanently because, assoon as everything happened,
they had to immediately go outand get jobs because they had no
benefits coming to them.
I'm fortunate that, becauseI've been off the road for quite
a few years and because I'veworked at the bottom of the hill
right in san francisco forsixteen years right, I've had a
w two paycheck right.
So I was paying into thecalifornia unemployment system
(27:18):
and I was able to get a tinytrickle of unemployment to help
keep me going.
When I mean, I filed the sameweekend that they shut down san
francisco, the same weekend thatthe mayor ordered all bars and
clubs closed.
I was online filling out myunemployment application that
weekend and I was able to getmoney right away I mean, a lot
of people didn't have thatopportunity no, and so they
(27:41):
ended up having to go out andget jobs immediately, at
whatever jobs they could get,wherever they live right and not
a roadie yet that was done.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
That was done, that was absolutely done for the
foreseeable future, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
and so what has happened in the time since the
lockdown is that two things thathappened.
Half of the professionals leftthe industry and they're not
coming back right.
So now you've got half as manypeople to fulfill this, to
fulfill those roles, half thenumber of people who actually
(28:13):
have that skill set and havebeen road tested.
Then all of the artists andperformers who lost over an
entire year of their income fromtouring and being on the road
are now booking almost twice asmany shows now to make up for it
, to make up for it as they comeout of the pandemic.
So you basically have now thepeople are qualified to do that
(28:37):
kind of work, have literallythree to four times as many job
offers.
And what's really scary is thatsome of the production
companies and sound and lightingcompanies they're literally
hiring kids out of high school,putting them on tour buses, on
major tours and sending thesekids.
I mean, these people have noexperience in the concert
(28:59):
industry.
There's some of the companiesand some of the people who staff
these tours, whether it'smanagement companies or, again,
the production companiesthemselves.
Right, they're so desperate forpersonnel that they're just
grabbing people off the street.
They're just.
They just need bodies to fillpositions in years.
They're throwing them into thedeep end of the pool and just
(29:19):
like hoping that they can swim.
So that's a very weird thingthat's happening.
And basically this is to kind ofback up a little bit.
So we have the concept, we havethe idea.
We started working on all ofthis non-profit stuff on sort of
the more legal side of it andthe insurance and everything,
but all of that took about sixmonths, right.
(29:40):
So by the time we announcedwhat we were going to do, it was
the end of march of 2021.
The pandemic has dragged on fora full year at this point.
And then we come out and we saywe've got this idea.
We have all of our ducks in arow, we have the insurance.
Now we're doing all this stuffthrough a non-profit and here's,
here's what we're going to doand this is our plan.
(30:02):
And all these people I knew onthe west coast in Seattle, san
Diego, los Angeles, bay Area,portland, sacramento they all
said this is amazing, this is agreat idea, and they're like I'm
an unemployed roadie, I want toget involved, I love what
you're doing.
Well, guess what?
Six weeks later basically itwas around, maybe May they said
(30:24):
oh, california's going to reopenconcerts next month.
Everyone that was enthusiastic,vanished completely,
disappeared on me.
They all got called back to thesound companies.
The tour managers that I knewwere immediately saying okay,
we're doing, we're booking allthese, make updates, I'm already
advancing all these shows.
I have to do all this stuff toprep the tour and get it ready.
(30:44):
You know and so what did thatdo?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
what did that do yeah ?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
it left me completely on my own.
So for the last two years thatwe've been operating officially
under this 501c3 of SecondChance Pet Rescue, the Roadies
and Rescues Transport Program,has been just me, oh my god.
I've had a few friends.
I had somebody in LA and I'veand I've had friends in the Bay
(31:09):
Area who've been able to jump inand and help out with some
things that were semi local,like hey, I need you to take
this dog from LA over to SantaBarbara and then come back.
Or hey, I need you to take thisdog from San Francisco out to
Stockton and back right for vetneeds and things like that, so
I'vebeen able to get to recruit a
few people here and there to doindividual things, but basically
(31:32):
, once we put the word out, allof these rescue organizations
were like beating down my door,saying so.
It's almost like the oppositeof what happened with the
concert industry coming back allof a sudden because they know
what I'm doing now and what I'moffering with this transport
program.
I'm inundated with offers andpeople begging me to transport
(31:54):
animals to Oregon and Washington.
There was a point in the summerof 2021 where I went.
I basically went to Portland inthe back, I think seven times in
nine weeks oh man, all right itwas almost every Monday for two
months oh my gosh, I wasdriving a van with anywhere from
like 10 to 10 to 18 dogs at atime all the way to Portland and
(32:18):
again, like these are like 16hour days wow, okay, so so
you're it yeah so I'm in and now.
Now we're seeing how overworkedand overloaded everybody is in
the concert industry and it'sgonna be.
It's gonna take a while tobring enough new people in and
(32:39):
get them trained and qualifiedand and again sort of separate
out who is built to be on theroad okay, so this, but so this
has not diminished or deterredyou.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
No, okay, that's really what I want to hear too
and my car.
Currently it's roadie andrescue.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, it's kind of roadie and rescue and and and,
uh, matt in his role.
Um is his.
His role is less definedbecause he's not actually just
doing the drives with me, right,um?
And he's got two very youngkids at home and and he actually
opted once concerts came back.
(33:14):
He opted not after 15 years ofdoing it, he opted to not return
to the world of working musicfestivals, okay, and doing
transportation for musicfestivals, um, so he is a
stay-at-home dad and we havemeetings every couple out of
every two or three weeks, likewe'll all go up to the
Sacramento area and we gettogether and we have lunch.
We kind of discuss like what'shappened since the last time we
(33:35):
talked and then like plans forhow we're going to keep pushing
this boulder uphill, um, butessentially it has been just me,
it's just been myself.
But because I'm back to workfull time, it's really difficult
to find two days in a row thatI even have off, so that, uh,
either I'm working at the at theconcert venue in San Francisco,
(33:58):
I'm either working at thebottom of the hill or I'm
running my own sound company anddoing events on the weekends
through my sound right to makeends meet yeah, and so I'm
trying to pay all of my billsand do all of my stuff, and then
I just try to squeeze in thedog, rescue stuff wherever I can
so then let me ask you, paul,about our listeners what do you
want anything from our listeners?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
and and I, and I say that, and I, I our listeners are
, you know, varied people thathave different backgrounds.
Some are interested in helping,some just want only information
, which is great.
That's the purpose of this is,hopefully, to get people
involved in some way, if thistouches them in some way yeah so
are you looking for potentialdrivers?
Are you looking for funding?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
well, there's always, there are always um rescue
organizations that are in needof drivers, for sure.
Okay, um, we just because wedon't want to, and so that.
So, if people are willing to dothat sort of thing, there are
certainly a lot of organizationsthat they can volunteer with to
help do that um and I, and Ithink it's important to know,
because I think I don't think alot of people know that I didn't
(35:03):
know that.
Yeah, I didn't until a fewyears ago.
Like I said, I just very, youknow, oddly enough, just kind of
happened to stumble my way intoit.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
So there's a lot of rescue groups then that are
looking for transportationpeople to drive animals to
destinations where they couldpotentially get homes.
Yeah, they're forever homes,yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Well, and a lot of times too, they even need things
just locally.
They need drivers.
A lot of times they might justsay, you know, we have a dog
that just needs to get to thisparticular vet appointment in
the morning, or sometimes theyjust need somebody to go pick up
supplies and, you know, runerrands for them or something,
and so those are alwaysopportunities that people have.
So, you know, I would say forus, we still want to stay on
(35:48):
mission with the idea of that.
We want to bring roadies intothis world Because, again,
there's a very specific mentalhealth component that we're
concerned about that we want tobring it back to them.
So when people who aren't fromthe concert world and don't
necessarily understand thelifestyle and the hours that you
put in, how many hours it takesto get somewhere.
(36:09):
Yeah, you know we, when theycome and they offer to help us
out, I just will try to pointthem in the direction of other
rescues in their area that theycan work with, because we still
have a very specific vision ofthe community that we want to
serve.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Got it, and it really is the music industry and the
dog rescue.
You know the dogs that need togo up to their next spot.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Got it, got it.
So I get that and then Iunderstand too.
So for the people that areinterested in doing this, there
are a lot of organizations outthere that you can help and
participate with.
Roadies and rescues is a littledifferent, it's a little bit
more of a niche, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Which makes total sense.
I get the idea that a 16 hourroad trip truthfully, I wouldn't
want to do a 16 hour road tripwith in a van with a bunch of
dogs or cats yeah, I'm not builtfor that.
I get that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, but once people have been road tested and you
know that they can handle beingin a van.
Now I get it If they can handlebeing in a van with a bunch of
musicians which at times can belike a bunch of like feral
animals.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yes, now, I get it.
Now I'm making this connectionto understand why you, you know
you're very particular who youwant to have work with.
I get it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, good, well, and again, because of the lifestyle
and everything and the mentalhealth component of what, of how
we feel that what we do couldbe beneficial to people in
between tours.
I feel that other people whoaren't part of that, they have,
if they they probably alreadyhave a lifestyle and they
probably already have thingsthat are more conducive to
(37:48):
having outlets for those needsof mental health and whatnot,
right.
So that's why we're just tryingto stay very much on mission.
That we get offers from peopleto help us out, I get it, but
we're trying to stick with theconcert industry angle.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I get it.
That makes total sense.
And let me ask you to Paul youmentioned to me on the phone
that you had an idea at onepoint to.
We've talked talked a lot aboutthis now about mental health
for folks in the industry, whichis awesome, but you also
brought up an idea which Ithought was even more awesome
was the idea of bringing some ofthese rescue dogs to backstage
(38:27):
for the folks in the industry,that whole I want to sit with
the dog kind of a thing duringmy in my break to bring me that
calmness, that peace of mind,that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's a, it would bewell, there's a few ways that
that could be beneficial to boththe animals and to the people
in the industry.
So, from the first day thatMatt and I sat down and talked
about this, here's what I thinkhe was like.
Well, look, he's like I've.
I've been yeah, I've been agolden voice for 15 years and
he's like I know everybody inevery level of the offices at
(39:01):
the backstage of Coachella.
And he said we could, we couldarrange something where we would
get our own backstage trailer,the same way that the artists
have their own like backstageareas, and we could have like a
fenced in a doggy like play yardand people would love that Like
, because you know the show isgoing on all day long, right,
and the show is in the openingtime slot and they're playing at
(39:24):
noon.
They're just going to wanderaround for the rest of the day
and hang out and catering andsee their other buddies that are
roadies, that are that they,you know that happen to be
intersecting, that their toursare both bringing them to the
festival, and then they're goingto go maybe see a band on one
of the different stages orsomething.
But if they knew that there wasa place where they could go
hang out with dogs, I mean, whowouldn't avail themselves of
that kind of opportunity, right?
(39:45):
So he had the idea and he said,you know, we, we could do a
thing backstage at Coachella.
And then you know, and then, ofcourse, we immediately realized
, well, yeah, what we could dois we could find a rescue
organization in that area thathas dogs that have been at the
shelter for a long time.
We could have them bring thedogs.
They would be the ones whoprovide the dogs and then we
(40:06):
could live stream it on Facebookor YouTube.
So here we are backstage atCoachella and we've got these
dogs here and we're hanging outwith all these other roadies and
people and we could talk topeople and interview people and
inevitably it's there.
You would absolutely beguaranteed that at some point
the well-known artists are goingto, are going to walk by and
(40:26):
they're going to say, hey,what's this?
And they're going to, oh, Iwant to come in and play with
these dogs.
You know, and it just gives youa great opportunity to say hey,
like here's so-and-so who'sheadlining this particular stage
tonight, and they're back hereplaying with this dog who came
from the shelter in, you know,apple Valley or the shelter in
Riverside or whatever.
And, by the way, this dog needsto get adopted, you know, and
(40:49):
it would be a great opportunityfor us to get the word out there
and it would also be a way, too, that roadies and people who
are backstage at those festivals, who haven't heard of us, would
stumble upon us, oh, and youcan get more drivers and we
could get more drivers and wecould sort of recruit people,
and so we're not there yet, butit's in the works.
(41:09):
But it's in the works, I like it.
I like it, yeah, so we're it'sdefinitely.
We're trying to make moves inthat direction.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
I love it, I love this, I love what you're doing.
Thank you, it really is itreally is.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It has been incredibly fulfilling, I gotta
say, and going back to themental health component and
giving people something to lookforward to when they come off
the tour.
You know, I mean not to be grim, but there are hundreds of
animals every week that arebeing euthanized in shelters in
central California.
And just because there's a lotof overpopulation, for a variety
(41:41):
of reasons, a lot of theshelters, particularly in
central California, the Highway99 corridor south of Sacramento,
all the way down to LakeBakersfield and Lancaster a lot
of their shelters are just soovercrowded and they don't have
the personnel, they don't havethe budget, they just don't have
the resources to take care ofthe incredible inundation of
just the animals that areflooding in constantly.
(42:02):
And so when you have a van, ashectic and crazy as it gets and
believe me, it gets hectic andcrazy when you have crates in a
van and you have 18 dogs at atime- I can't.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Imagine.
I've transported my cats backand forth from Oregon, and that
was bad enough.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
That's a handful unto itself and then yeah, and so it
can be a wild and long day, butwhen you know that I've had
days where I've had 18 animalsin my 15 passenger van, with all
the seats taken out, and I'vehad 18 animals all in their
individual crates in there, andevery single one of those 18
(42:43):
animals was going to die thatweekend, every one of them was
scheduled for euthanasia, and sothey were the ones that were
urgent.
They were the ones that all ofthese different organizations
throughout Oregon and Washingtonsaid we are not going to let
those particular dogs die Like,if you can get them to us, we
will take care of their vetneeds, we will take care of
(43:06):
everything and we will findthese dogs a good home, Wow, and
cats too, and cats in somecases.
So when you do something likethat and it's the end of a again
, like you started your day at 8am and you're wrapping it up
and you're getting to your hotelroom at like midnight up in
Tacoma or Portland or wherever,but you know that every one of
(43:28):
those animals is alive becausethose organizations were able to
step up and throw you some gasmoney and you volunteered your
time and you put in that day,it's incredibly fulfilling.
And so for people to again tocome home from a tour expecting
that really bad crash thathappens afterwards, because
(43:50):
they're now separated from theirtour family and they're having
anxiety about being home andeverything.
That's an incredible thing tolook forward to.
Even if you knew you werecoming home for five weeks and
you just had one or two thingslike one or two days, like that,
emotionally, what that would dofor a person would be it would
really really help them, youknow, like lift their spirits.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
So the benefit for the roadies in the music
industry and the dogs.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I mean the animals definitelyneed this, so tell me what.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
so how can people help you?
I?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
know there's a.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
GoFundMe page.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, so we do have a GoFundMe that we've.
We've kept that campaign goingbecause we just continually get
a trickle of people who justkeep donating to it which is
great.
So those donations are alwayshelpful and of course we do like
PayPal and Venmo and thingslike that.
But I mean really right now,the biggest help is just sharing
our like, following us onFacebook and Instagram,
(44:49):
reposting or sharing our stuffjust to kind of get the word out
there.
Perfect, because we're stilljust trying to get the word out
to as many people as we can andinevitably, the more that the
word gets out there, the morethat people they really like
love the story and they lovewhat we're doing, and so the
donations end up kind of comingthrough the shares.
(45:09):
But I would also say that ifpeople were interested in
getting directly involved, butagain, if they don't necessarily
have concert industryexperience and they're not like
our demographic of people thatwe're trying to benefit, correct
.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
But then there's other places that they can go.
There's a lot of other placesthey can go and I hope somebody
says wow, I didn't know that,because that's one takeaway from
this conversation that nonmusic industry people, you can
go somewhere else and do this.
There is a huge need for this.
There is, and I would in termsof roadies and rescues.
You know, I know that you knowobviously a lot of people in the
(45:43):
music industry that might bereally didn't know about this.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, and now go wow, yeah, I didn't know that I want
to get involved, yeah, and forpeople that are not in the
concert industry who want to getinvolved, I would say that,
even more than donations andmoney, the best way you can help
your local organizations, the Iwould say, the linchpin of it
all, the thing that holds it alltogether, is fostering.
That is the most importantthing to do.
If you have housing, if youhave housing and you can pass,
(46:11):
then they don't do likenecessarily a background check
like a criminal background check, but they'll want to do home
inspections to make sure youmake sure that you have a proper
fence.
Yes, the dogs not going to runaway.
Yes, you know there's a lotyou'll have to fill out like
long questionnaires and beinterviewed and everything.
But being a foster is probablythe most vital, more than
(46:31):
donating money to anybody Ifyou're available and you can be
a foster because every time youcan foster an animal long enough
for it to get its vet caretaken care of, get its photos
taken, put up on the website andall of those things that they
need to do so they can startfielding applications for those
particular animals.
If you can foster a dog or acat or any other shelter animal
(46:54):
and have it for maybe a fewmonths, just long enough for it
to get adopted into itspermanent home Perfect yes.
And then you can go and fosteranother one.
Perfect, the fostering is byfar the greatest need that
anyone has in the rescuecommunity.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
That's the that's good to know.
Yeah, again, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And you can see listeners or hear listeners.
There is a process.
I didn't know that this wholeprocess was even in place in
terms of fostering all of thosethings and how each part of that
process is an important role.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, you can volunteer your time to go, help
walk and socialize the animals.
You can help volunteer yourtime to clean up the kennels.
You can donate money, you cando fostering, of course, if you
find an animal that you love andyou want to adopt it, that of
course is great as well.
That's always.
The goal is to find good homesfor all of them.
(47:47):
Yeah, there's myriad ways thatyou can get involved and help,
for sure, perfect.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Perfect, thank you.
Thank you so much, paul, notonly for just this conversation
today and trying to find a placefor this conversation today,
which, by the way, listeners, wewere all over the place because
it was raining and what haveyou.
But thank you so much for thework that you do for all the
animals.
Oh yeah, we're all the animals.
It's been the opportunity totalk about it.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
It's been incredibly fulfilling and, yeah, if I
hadn't sort of lucked my wayinto doing this during the
pandemic, it would have been amuch emotionally, it would have
been a much darker time for meRight.
It would have, I just.
But having all of this work tolook forward to while I was
unemployed and waiting forconcerts to come back, it's been
(48:36):
incredible.
It's funny because I tellpeople all the time that five or
six years ago, if you had toldme that this is the path, my
life would be on, I would havebeen.
I would not have shut the ideadown, but I would have been very
highly skeptical and now that Iam doing this, I can't imagine
not doing it.
Awesome.
So even with the obstacles thatwe've had of like how the
(48:58):
concert industry is just sooverloaded right now and it's
been hard to find the help fromthe roadies that we want to get
it hasn't deterred me because Ijust I can't imagine my life
without this.
Now, like this is just likethis is okay for the rest of my
life.
This is what I'm going to bedoing in some capacity, or other
I'm going to be involved inthis.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
So, listeners, you can go to the roadies and
rescues Facebook site.
Please do that.
You'll be up to date on allcurrent information and the
GoFundMe site and I'll havelinks to those on my website so
you can just click and go.
So thank you again.
Yeah, thank you.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Awesome Thanks.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I want to end this episode with kind of a
reflection on our bond with dogs.
I had talked to a friend ofmine, david Jackson from
Conservation Ambassadors, manyyears ago about what his
favorite animal was and this isa man that works with all kinds
of animals doing educationaloutreach and his response was
dogs.
And at the time it was like wow.
(49:58):
It kind of shocked me,especially when you know he's
standing next to a tiger or baldeagle.
I was like wow.
But over the years it has madeperfect sense to me and I think
probably it's the same bond andpassion that drives Paul as well
.
I asked him again recentlyabout this and I'd like to end
(50:20):
this wonderful episode with hisresponse.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I get asked all the time all these amazing animals,
they have lions and tigers andalligators and puppies and
everything.
What's your favorite animal?
And I always say my dog,because dogs are amazing.
I mean it's 40 to 60,000 yearsof man's best friend.
I mean they chose us.
The latest research shows thatdogs actually chose us.
(50:45):
We didn't choose them.
They decided to come to ourcamps and hang out with us and
that's in my honest relationshipand I can be at home with my
dog and I can turn my back on it.
I mean I love all of my wildfriends and they're wonderful to
work with.
I have great relationships.
I mean lifetime, multi-decaderelationships with a lot of
(51:07):
amazing animals, butunfortunately dogs don't live
that long Boy, for the time thatthey're here.
They are by far the greatestanimal on the planet to have
next to you and I wouldn't tradethem for anything.
Rodies.
They're the crew that brings usthe music we love, the crew
that manages the musical gear,sets up the stage, ensures that
the band sounds clean and thenswiftly packs up everything for
the next venue.
I make it sound easy and I'msure I'm missing a million steps
.
I recognize that Rodiesundertake a massive endeavor to
(00:21):
bring us live music.
Ugh, live music.
Oh.
So many good times, so manyunforgettable concerts, yeah,
okay.
So now let's shift gears to thewonderful world of dogs.
There's nothing quite like them.
And just when you think livemusic and dogs have nothing in
common, enter a worldwidepandemic that brings everything
(00:43):
to a standstill.
At first glance, these threeelements may seem unrelated Live
music, dogs and a pandemic.
However, our next guest, paulThomas, has managed to find a
connection.
Combining his passion for dogs,unwavering dedication to his
art and a positive outlookduring the pandemic, he has
(01:05):
created something remarkableRodies and Rescues Hi everyone,
it's Vanessa from Two Chicks anda Ho, the podcast that brings
you amazing people doing greatthings in our world.
I didn't have to look forward tofind another person doing
something fantastic.
Allow me to introduce PaulThomas, a front-of-house sound
(01:28):
engineer who has established anorganization that leverages
skills from the music industryto provide an essential service,
not just for dogs but also forpeople within the music
community.
Music.
(01:53):
Hey everybody.
It's Vanessa from Two Chicksand a Ho, the podcast about
amazing people doing incrediblethings in the world.
I'm sitting in a really specialplace right now with one of
those amazing people, so youmight hear some of our visitors
come by.
(02:13):
We're sitting in a dog park inMountain View, california, and
I'm sitting here with PaulThomas, who has an amazing
connection to dogs.
That's why we thought we'd cometo a dog park and you know, if
they come over, that's evenbetter if they chat with us for
a bit.
But hi, paul, welcome andthanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, welcome.
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Good.
So I found out about Paul via afriend that said, Vanessa, you
have to meet this person.
He's doing really incrediblethings with dogs.
I'm like, oh, wow, you know.
Hey, tell me about dogs,Anything to do with dogs.
You guys know, that's like mymost favorite animal.
Paul does something reallyspecial.
So Paul, tell us about thisgroup called Roadies and Rescues
(02:59):
.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, roadies and Rescues is something that I
started when the concertindustry was shut down during
the pandemic.
I used to be a roadieprofessionally which was touring
with bands as an audio engineer, and it was sort of born out of
the idea that there were a lotof people from the concert
industry like myself who weresuddenly very abruptly left
(03:23):
unemployed and the idea was tostart recruiting people from the
concert industry to give themsomething to do and something
positive to focus their energyon and get them involved in
helping transport rescue animalsNot just dogs but sometimes
cats as well, but basicallytransporting rescue animals from
(03:44):
overpopulated areas like theCentral Valley of California up
to places where they didn't havethe overpopulation problems in
Oregon and Washington wherethere are rescue organizations,
where oftentimes the people whorun those rescues up there are
saying we have more goodapplicants and homes than we
have actual animals, not animals.
(04:06):
Yeah.
So I certainly did not inventthe idea or the concept.
I just found out about it whilethe pandemic was happening.
And since I was unemployed andhad two vans sitting in my
driveway and I used to do a lotof touring, I figured this is a
world I could take a sort of alittle side route or a detour
(04:28):
into doing this.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So this is kind of a good thing that came out of the
pandemic.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
For me?
Yeah, it definitely was.
I had a next girlfriend up inSacramento Was the person who
really got me sort of there wego, there's our friends.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, that's what we like.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
An ex-girlfriend up in Sacramento had she had been
doing a lot of fostering for oneof the shelters up in the
Sacramento area, and that waswhat sort of began to open my
eyes and sort of gave me aglimpse into the world of animal
rescue.
And it was really only aboutjust like about three months
before the actual shutdownoccurred in the pandemic.
(05:17):
It was in just around lateNovember or early December of
2019.
I had just started volunteeringas just a once a week volunteer
at a senior dog sanctuary up inPetaluma where I was living,
and then, you know, lo andbehold, three, three and a half
months later, everything sort ofhit the fan, and so I was
(05:41):
already just starting to kind ofget into that world of animal
rescue and volunteering withanimals.
The pandemic being what it was,it's hard to really say that it
was a yes, it was a good thingthat came out of a lot of
Looking for the silver lining.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, exactly there was a there.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, I was able to.
I was able to take lemons andmake lemonade.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Right, right.
So that process of doing that.
So, as a roadie, myunderstanding is and I don't
know if our listeners know aboutthis or not but as a roadie,
you're the one that takes allthe gear to the next concert
venue for the band, that kind ofa thing, and we're dogs and you
(06:25):
have space then for dogs.
That's what it sounds like.
That's my interpretation ofwhat's going on here.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, yeah, so not in the sense that we're doing it
actually in between concerts orevents, but when everything was
completely shut down, Ibasically was able to take a
skill set from when I was on theroad.
Basically, it was a prettynormal day in the touring world
(06:53):
that you would wake up in Denver, let's say, and you'd have to
get your day started at 7o'clock in the morning because
you're going to drive fromDenver all the way to Kansas
City and it might be like eightor nine hours of driving and
then after the eight or ninehours of driving, you have to
load all of the equipment in,set everything up, do a sound
(07:13):
check, go eat dinner, the bandputs on the actual performance,
they do the show, you tear itall down and then by 2 in the
morning you're heading to ahotel room, and so I'm already
acclimated to and understand theidea of waking up in a
different town every day andfacing another 16 or 18 hour day
(07:35):
of work on fairly minimal sleep.
So that was kind of the skill,if you want to call it a skill,
but that was part of the skillset.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
That seemed to translate well to this idea of
what the hashtag as rescue byrelocation, because so the idea
so three months you're intopotentially volunteering with
dogs and then three months inthe pandemic starts.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, and so the whole concert world gets shut
down.
The concert venue that I workedat in San Francisco was closed,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And a lot of free time on your hands, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
A lot of free time and a couple empty vans parked
in the driveway, and so Ifigured, once I started to
understand, that there was thisunderground movement of people
who would relocate these dogs.
It's so well then, that justnaturally seen it.
So, again, it's within my skillset, I've got a vehicle to do
it and I've got ample time.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Good combination then .
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Good combination.
So when did it actually start?
When did the first, I guess,group of dogs get?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
transported by you.
Gosh, it's hard to evenremember and pin it all down,
because when everything is shutdown for the pandemic, I was
still able to go once a week formy three hour shift and still
could go volunteer Becauseanimal rescue is considered an
essential service.
(09:02):
Right, right so even though it'snot like food service or
working in a grocery store orwhatever, it is considered an
essential service.
And it was something where thatparticular rescue had taken a
lot of precautions as well.
So they were starting to scaleback the number of volunteers
that could be on the property atthe same time and people were
wearing masks indoors andeverything.
So it gave me something tostill look forward to and it got
(09:27):
me out of the house withoutreally giving me any real high
risk exposure to other people.
So I was still continuing to dothat and with that organization
they needed.
Occasionally they would say, hey, there's a dog down at the that
we're interested in rescuing.
That's in the shelter inModesto.
Would you mind driving downthere?
(09:49):
And it was funny because theywould say it's going to take you
two hours to get there, thenyou have to deal with everything
at the front desk and actuallygetting the dog and then it's
going to take a couple hours toget back.
It's a big part of you and Iwas like that's a big part of my
day.
I'm like that's like a third,that's like a third of my normal
day back when I was a touringperson and I've actually been
(10:10):
off the road for 10 years.
I actually stopped touring atthe end of 2012 after about six
or seven years of pretty heavilybeing out on the road, at least
around anywhere from four tosix months out of the year,
which is for a lot of roadiesthat's actually not that heavy
of a schedule.
I know a lot of people who areon the road nine months out of
(10:30):
the year maybe even 10 monthsout of the year, but just being
able to always recall that Iknow that when push comes to
shove, if someone asks me andsays, hey, can we have a
situation where this band'svehicle broke down, they have to
get a rental.
We need someone to take theirgear as soon as their van is
(10:55):
fixed.
Bring the trailer of all oftheir stuff from San Francisco
to Boise, idaho, and it's got tohappen by tomorrow.
That I was somebody that peopleat different management
companies would call me.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
So I get that that's just a fraction of potentially.
I mean like a 16 hour dayconsisting of a lot of driving.
So to be asked to do somethinglike that really wasn't that big
of a deal for you in terms oftime.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, in terms of time, I can put in those kind of
hours and I can put in thosedays, like I said.
As I was saying before the dogscame over people, even though
I've been off the road for quitea few years, probably at least
once a year I'll still get acall from a management company
somewhere and they'll say hey,something's come up and we need
you to.
Can you drive overnight, takethis band's gear when they
(11:45):
finish up their show at theFillmore and then hustle it down
to LA first thing in themorning, because as soon as
their show at the Fillmore isdone they have to fly somewhere
and do some promotional thingand then fly and meet you.
It's just like really weird,crazy hectic schedule.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So that's kind of the life of a roadie, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's different levels of
things.
A lot of people, when theystart out in the touring side of
the industry, they might bestarting out most likely they're
kind of getting their feet wet.
In like the van and trailertour a circuit where it's bands
who don't have a lot of money,they don't have a lot of crew.
You might be the only personthey have is you might be there,
(12:23):
one sort of like catch-all,sort of like quote unquote
roadie, and you're the personwho helps.
Do like you're driving the vanpart of the day, you're setting
up the merch table, you'reunloading the gear and setting
up the gear and maybe you'reeven helping out with doing
sound or whatever, and you'reall crammed into a van and
you're pulling a trailer andyou're driving around the
country and you're doing clubsand you're playing for 100 to
(12:44):
maybe 300 people a night.
But then as you get, as thebands become more successful and
they're selling more ticketsand they're selling more merch
and they're playing largervenues, then they might scale up
to the point where they'reactually touring on a large tour
bus and you have a person who'sjust a commercial, you know,
like a CDL license holder, andthat's all they do is they drive
semis and tour buses and sothen at that point you actually
(13:08):
get to sleep in a bunk at nightand you don't have to drive
overnight and put in kind of ascrazy hours.
But generally speaking, thosejust sort of really really long
days at all different levels.
I mean, I've even done thingstoo where I've toured with acts
where for maybe three or fourmonths in a row all we were
doing is flying to every gig andwe were just doing stuff on the
(13:30):
weekends, and so that's sort ofthe same way, because now you
spend almost as much time in theairport security lines as you
do on the actual plane.
You're still, it soundsluxurious and it sounds easy,
because you're like, oh yeah,we're going to fly to this
college in Maryland and do a gigand then fly back the next day,
but it still ends up being likea 16 or 17 hour day because of
(13:52):
all the time you spend in theairport.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
So okay, so now tell me, I get your background.
How did they dogs, how did theanimals get involved?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, so, as I was mentioning before, I had just
started volunteering at a placeright before everything kind of
got locked down in the wholeconcert industry, kind of
nationwide, was really put onhold.
And then I don't even reallyremember how it began, but
somehow I had seen something onFacebook about somebody needing
(14:24):
to transport an animal somewhere.
And a lot of times withinCalifornia there will be rescue
organizations who they mightjust like pull.
Maybe they're like a specialty,like, let's say, it's a German
shepherd rescue, and they'll sayhey we heard that there's a
German shepherd at thisparticular shelter that needs to
get out before because it's atrisk of being euthanized,
because it's been there so longand so they might just like send
(14:47):
someone down to pick up thatdog and bring it back.
So what I began to notice as Iwas joining like these Facebook
groups of like these sort oflike informal, loosely organized
groups of people who helped outwith volunteering, with this
transport stuff, is that youwould see something where, like,
let's say that they have a dogin Stockton and there's a rescue
(15:11):
in, let's say, reading, just afew hours away, who wants to get
the dog?
Well, a lot of the people werestill employed or had other
commitments, or they have kidsto take care of or whatever, and
so someone would say, oh well,I can pick up, I'm in Stockton,
I can pick up the dog inStockton and I can drive it up
(15:31):
to Sacramento, if someone cantake the dog from Sacramento.
Then somebody else in the groupwould say, well, I'm in
Sacramento, so I'll take the dogfrom Sacramento to Chico, and
then someone would say, well, Ican get the dog from.
So there would be a lot ofhandoffs and it would just take
incrementally a lot longer thanit really should have Right and
kind of stressful on the animaltoo and then that's my main
(15:54):
concern is that, right away, thething that I identified was
that there's you have two bigrisks with the number of
handoffs.
Every time there's a transferfrom one vehicle to another,
there's a chance that thestressed out dog could bite
somebody right, or that the dogcould run away and escape in a
foreign, you know, in a townwhere it doesn't you know, it
(16:14):
could get lost, totally lost,yeah.
So when I looked at thatsituation and I just said, well,
hey guys, I'm unemployed and Ihave a van and I can put a crate
in my van, why don't I justcome pick up the dog in Stockton
, drive it to Redding and thenI'll just drive home to Petaluma
, and people were like, oh mygosh, if you'll do the whole
(16:35):
thing, that would be amazing.
And so I quickly realized that,with the time constraints that
other people had and all of thefactors that were leading to
where it was kind of common,there would be these like
firemen brigade of, like handingoff the bucket of water, you
know, to put out the fire Irealized that in a lot of ways
(16:55):
it would just make more sensefor me just to step in and just
do the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I was quite wowed by the connection and the bond that
Paul has with dogs.
And then, of course, I realizedthat so many of us have that
bond with the dogs in our lives.
So I asked a couple of myfriends about their dogs and
their relationships with them.
It means everything.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I love having the dog .
It's like having another familymember that you love, but
unconditional love.
She keeps me alive.
I live for her to a greatextent.
I walk and hike every day withher twice a day.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
She keeps me going because I'm retired, so that's
kind of how this started.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So that was already happening in the background of
my life in the first maybe fouror five months of the pandemic
Got it and then it was about sixmonths in.
It was around maybe Septemberof 2020 when they announced that
the Coachella Festival in 2021was going to be altogether
(18:06):
either canceled or, at the verybest case scenario, it would be
postponed until something likeOctober of 2021.
Okay, and I realized this likeoh, my gosh.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh, that's what we still had hopes.
Yeah, yeah, doing stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And so once they announced that that was
happening and my first thoughtwas, okay, the people at Golden
Voice who've been putting onthis you know the Coachella
Festival for, like you know, 25to 30 years now.
I realized they may not have thegovernors, might not be on
speed dial, but they definitelyknow people close enough to the
(18:44):
people in the government andthey probably have a pretty good
inside track on, like, how longthis thing is really going to
drag out, right, and I thought,if they're, if they're saying
six months from now that they'renot going to have Coachella
happening, then I was like thisthing's actually this is going
to be going on for a while.
And then it dawned on me oh, myfriend Matt, who he's worked
(19:09):
for Golden Voice and he was intheir transportation department
and he's worked for them for 15years.
I thought, oh man, well, Iguess Matt's not going to be
going back into the festivalworld next year.
And then it just sort of likeall kind of hit me at once and I
went man, all these people thatI know, all these roadies and
all these touring people that Iknow are still going to be
(19:30):
unemployed, like you know, ayear from now.
This could be going on.
And then that's when I was like, okay, this is starting to make
sense now.
And Matt, who I've known sincethe early 90s I mean, I already
known him for 30 years at thatpoint and and he's a longtime
(19:50):
vegan and animal lover andeverything and I went, oh you
know what?
Okay, I've got an idea.
And if there's anybody who Iwant to partner up with me to do
this, I need to go sit down andtalk to Matt.
So we, you know, we sat downand we had lunch and I said,
look, I've got this concept for,for like what will eventually
turn into a nonprofit and I wantto do this thing, and I want
(20:12):
this to be something that notonly helps animals but helps
people in the concert industryand gives them something
meaningful to do.
You know, won't be like aneveryday thing and even if we're
a nonprofit, we can'tnecessarily afford to pay them.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Right, but it gives them purpose, but it gives them
purpose.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And it gives them something to look forward to.
Yes, so important.
Yeah, it's a so really so.
So kind of baked into what westarted talking about from day
one was this sort of a mentalhealth component, because
another thing that you know isvery much related is that anyone
(20:48):
who's ever toured as they'refor their living and that's how
they actually were, it was theircareer and it was.
It's not just your career, itbecomes your lifestyle as well.
Anyone who does that for aliving definitely knows that
post tour depression is a very,very real and significant thing.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
That's that getting high, that's that high of of
what you're doing and then itbeing over, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Very, then, all of a sudden, very abruptly being over
and even to put the word highon, it is, it is.
It's a very emotional high.
Touring is a very intense, it'sa very, it's very difficult.
You really, as you go throughthe ranks of the touring world,
you quickly separate the wheatfrom the chaff and you find out
who's not cut out for that sortof thing and who is.
(21:38):
And then, once you distill itdown to where you've got a good
core of people, when you're onthe road of people, they
immediately become like yourfamily.
Everybody has to like bandtogether against all the you
know problems and difficultiesthat come up on a daily basis.
You're just every day on theroad.
Different challenges are thrownat you all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
And these are the people that you lean on and
depend on.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Absolutely.
And then all of a sudden, toursover one day and then, and you
might have tours lined up, butyou might be suddenly going from
like, oh, we just did like aseven week tour and now we're
going to go home for four weeks,and then we've got this
European leg of the tour afterthat for four weeks.
But it's those weird intervalsin between where it's really
hard to come home decompressfrom the intensity of everything
(22:25):
you've done.
And then what do you do?
Do you like pick up a job for afew weeks at a club while
you're home doing productionwork or doing?
sound or lights or whatever youdo, or do you just sort of like
live off of the money you justmade?
You know, it's a really.
There's a lot of anxiety andtrying to figure out how to like
briefly reintegrate into normallife, knowing that in five
(22:48):
weeks you're going right backout on tour again, right, right.
So it's a very it's a.
Emotionally it's a.
It's a very difficult lifecycle.
It's a very difficult lifestylein a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
This is, and this is pre pandemic, of course.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh yeah, that was normal.
This is right, this is normal.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, that was, that was what you just said, is that
it's a different kind oflifestyle and challenging?
Yeah, it's, yeah, that's justwhen the.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
That was just when things were back, you know, in a
normal way.
So, yeah, it's a, it's a.
It's a very challenginglifestyle and we were
anticipating again.
From our very first discussion,I said, look, I had this idea
and I had this concept, andhere's we talked about all the
long range, here's how we couldgrow this and this is what it
could eventually become, andpart of it was some day.
(23:34):
Whether it's six months fromnow or whether it's two years
from now, at some point theconcert industry is going to
come back.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Now this is let me.
Let's clarify that, thoughthat's what was said a couple
years ago when you started thisconcept.
Yeah, this is not now becauseit's back.
Yeah, this is in.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
September of 2020.
Got it Okay got it when, again,like we're finding out that
Coachella of 2021 is going to becanceled or postponed and so we
really don't know, like nowwe're really thinking this is
could drag on for a long time,right, but we knew from day one
that, even once the concertworld came back and Rodies were
(24:11):
back to being employed and backto doing what they normally do
and going back to their normallifestyle, that what we were
planning to do with Rodies andRescues would still be relevant
in their life.
Because when you come home forthat three weeks or six weeks or
whatever, and you're facing thepossibility of all of that
anxiety and a post tourdepression and really crashing-
(24:31):
from that high that we could besomething that you could at
least look forward to, that youwould have something fulfilling
or you know that you're helpingthese animals and you're doing
something that's very purposedriven and it's not just about
like a paycheck or anythingRight?
So we knew that long term thiswas still going to be relevant,
(24:53):
even after concerts came back.
We never thought that, likethis was a temporary thing, just
for during the pandemic and Ilove the idea.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I have to say this, paul I love the idea that, as
much as I love dogs, but thiswas a really, like you said, for
mental health, for humans aswell, so the two things at once,
that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, once we hit on it and we really
started talking about it andfleshing out the idea and we
were just, you know, spent acouple hours just batting all
these ideas back and forth.
We both knew that this wasabsolutely a viable, solid idea,
even after concerts came back.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Perfect, good, good.
So tell me now concerts areback.
Well, yeah, concerts are backand they are back in a big way.
Now here's.
Yeah, tell me, there's a caveathere.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, so this is now.
This is where, uh, things havenot gone according to plan and
we are still very much pushingthis bolder uphill.
Uh, and it's a very uh, it's avery steep hill hole right now.
Uh, one of the things that Icould not have anticipated is
that a lot of people who are inthe touring industry are not w
(26:12):
two employees, meaning that theydo not get a paycheck with a
stub attached that shows thatthey've paid all of these like
federal taxes.
Most of them are ten, ninety,nine people.
Okay, in a lot of cases, andwhat happened is because a lot
of those folks were ten, ninety,nine uh employees, or ten
ninety nine could be there, not,please.
(26:33):
They're actually consideredindependent contractors.
They could not qualify in anystate to receive any kind of
unemployment when the pandemichappened.
So what happened is, accordingto the industry statistics that
I've read, somewhere aroundfifty five to sixty percent of
people that used to beprofessional roadies left the
(26:56):
industry permanently because, assoon as everything happened,
they had to immediately go outand get jobs because they had no
benefits coming to them.
I'm fortunate that, becauseI've been off the road for quite
a few years and because I'veworked at the bottom of the hill
right in san francisco forsixteen years right, I've had a
w two paycheck right.
So I was paying into thecalifornia unemployment system
(27:18):
and I was able to get a tinytrickle of unemployment to help
keep me going.
When I mean, I filed the sameweekend that they shut down san
francisco, the same weekend thatthe mayor ordered all bars and
clubs closed.
I was online filling out myunemployment application that
weekend and I was able to getmoney right away I mean, a lot
of people didn't have thatopportunity no, and so they
(27:41):
ended up having to go out andget jobs immediately, at
whatever jobs they could get,wherever they live right and not
a roadie yet that was done.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
That was done, that was absolutely done for the
foreseeable future, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
and so what has happened in the time since the
lockdown is that two things thathappened.
Half of the professionals leftthe industry and they're not
coming back right.
So now you've got half as manypeople to fulfill this, to
fulfill those roles, half thenumber of people who actually
(28:13):
have that skill set and havebeen road tested.
Then all of the artists andperformers who lost over an
entire year of their income fromtouring and being on the road
are now booking almost twice asmany shows now to make up for it
, to make up for it as they comeout of the pandemic.
So you basically have now thepeople are qualified to do that
(28:37):
kind of work, have literallythree to four times as many job
offers.
And what's really scary is thatsome of the production
companies and sound and lightingcompanies they're literally
hiring kids out of high school,putting them on tour buses, on
major tours and sending thesekids.
I mean, these people have noexperience in the concert
(28:59):
industry.
There's some of the companiesand some of the people who staff
these tours, whether it'smanagement companies or, again,
the production companiesthemselves.
Right, they're so desperate forpersonnel that they're just
grabbing people off the street.
They're just.
They just need bodies to fillpositions in years.
They're throwing them into thedeep end of the pool and just
(29:19):
like hoping that they can swim.
So that's a very weird thingthat's happening.
And basically this is to kind ofback up a little bit.
So we have the concept, we havethe idea.
We started working on all ofthis non-profit stuff on sort of
the more legal side of it andthe insurance and everything,
but all of that took about sixmonths, right.
(29:40):
So by the time we announcedwhat we were going to do, it was
the end of march of 2021.
The pandemic has dragged on fora full year at this point.
And then we come out and we saywe've got this idea.
We have all of our ducks in arow, we have the insurance.
Now we're doing all this stuffthrough a non-profit and here's,
here's what we're going to doand this is our plan.
(30:02):
And all these people I knew onthe west coast in Seattle, san
Diego, los Angeles, bay Area,portland, sacramento they all
said this is amazing, this is agreat idea, and they're like I'm
an unemployed roadie, I want toget involved, I love what
you're doing.
Well, guess what?
Six weeks later basically itwas around, maybe May they said
(30:24):
oh, california's going to reopenconcerts next month.
Everyone that was enthusiastic,vanished completely,
disappeared on me.
They all got called back to thesound companies.
The tour managers that I knewwere immediately saying okay,
we're doing, we're booking allthese, make updates, I'm already
advancing all these shows.
I have to do all this stuff toprep the tour and get it ready.
(30:44):
You know and so what did thatdo?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
what did that do yeah ?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
it left me completely on my own.
So for the last two years thatwe've been operating officially
under this 501c3 of SecondChance Pet Rescue, the Roadies
and Rescues Transport Program,has been just me, oh my god.
I've had a few friends.
I had somebody in LA and I'veand I've had friends in the Bay
(31:09):
Area who've been able to jump inand and help out with some
things that were semi local,like hey, I need you to take
this dog from LA over to SantaBarbara and then come back.
Or hey, I need you to take thisdog from San Francisco out to
Stockton and back right for vetneeds and things like that, so
I'vebeen able to get to recruit a
few people here and there to doindividual things, but basically
(31:32):
, once we put the word out, allof these rescue organizations
were like beating down my door,saying so.
It's almost like the oppositeof what happened with the
concert industry coming back allof a sudden because they know
what I'm doing now and what I'moffering with this transport
program.
I'm inundated with offers andpeople begging me to transport
(31:54):
animals to Oregon and Washington.
There was a point in the summerof 2021 where I went.
I basically went to Portland inthe back, I think seven times in
nine weeks oh man, all right itwas almost every Monday for two
months oh my gosh, I wasdriving a van with anywhere from
like 10 to 10 to 18 dogs at atime all the way to Portland and
(32:18):
again, like these are like 16hour days wow, okay, so so
you're it yeah so I'm in and now.
Now we're seeing how overworkedand overloaded everybody is in
the concert industry and it'sgonna be.
It's gonna take a while tobring enough new people in and
(32:39):
get them trained and qualifiedand and again sort of separate
out who is built to be on theroad okay, so this, but so this
has not diminished or deterredyou.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
No, okay, that's really what I want to hear too
and my car.
Currently it's roadie andrescue.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, it's kind of roadie and rescue and and and,
uh, matt in his role.
Um is his.
His role is less definedbecause he's not actually just
doing the drives with me, right,um?
And he's got two very youngkids at home and and he actually
opted once concerts came back.
(33:14):
He opted not after 15 years ofdoing it, he opted to not return
to the world of working musicfestivals, okay, and doing
transportation for musicfestivals, um, so he is a
stay-at-home dad and we havemeetings every couple out of
every two or three weeks, likewe'll all go up to the
Sacramento area and we gettogether and we have lunch.
We kind of discuss like what'shappened since the last time we
(33:35):
talked and then like plans forhow we're going to keep pushing
this boulder uphill, um, butessentially it has been just me,
it's just been myself.
But because I'm back to workfull time, it's really difficult
to find two days in a row thatI even have off, so that, uh,
either I'm working at the at theconcert venue in San Francisco,
(33:58):
I'm either working at thebottom of the hill or I'm
running my own sound company anddoing events on the weekends
through my sound right to makeends meet yeah, and so I'm
trying to pay all of my billsand do all of my stuff, and then
I just try to squeeze in thedog, rescue stuff wherever I can
so then let me ask you, paul,about our listeners what do you
want anything from our listeners?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
and and I, and I say that, and I, I our listeners are
, you know, varied people thathave different backgrounds.
Some are interested in helping,some just want only information
, which is great.
That's the purpose of this is,hopefully, to get people
involved in some way, if thistouches them in some way yeah so
are you looking for potentialdrivers?
Are you looking for funding?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
well, there's always, there are always um rescue
organizations that are in needof drivers, for sure.
Okay, um, we just because wedon't want to, and so that.
So, if people are willing to dothat sort of thing, there are
certainly a lot of organizationsthat they can volunteer with to
help do that um and I, and Ithink it's important to know,
because I think I don't think alot of people know that I didn't
(35:03):
know that.
Yeah, I didn't until a fewyears ago.
Like I said, I just very, youknow, oddly enough, just kind of
happened to stumble my way intoit.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
So there's a lot of rescue groups then that are
looking for transportationpeople to drive animals to
destinations where they couldpotentially get homes.
Yeah, they're forever homes,yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Well, and a lot of times too, they even need things
just locally.
They need drivers.
A lot of times they might justsay, you know, we have a dog
that just needs to get to thisparticular vet appointment in
the morning, or sometimes theyjust need somebody to go pick up
supplies and, you know, runerrands for them or something,
and so those are alwaysopportunities that people have.
So, you know, I would say forus, we still want to stay on
(35:48):
mission with the idea of that.
We want to bring roadies intothis world Because, again,
there's a very specific mentalhealth component that we're
concerned about that we want tobring it back to them.
So when people who aren't fromthe concert world and don't
necessarily understand thelifestyle and the hours that you
put in, how many hours it takesto get somewhere.
(36:09):
Yeah, you know we, when theycome and they offer to help us
out, I just will try to pointthem in the direction of other
rescues in their area that theycan work with, because we still
have a very specific vision ofthe community that we want to
serve.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Got it, and it really is the music industry and the
dog rescue.
You know the dogs that need togo up to their next spot.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Got it, got it.
So I get that and then Iunderstand too.
So for the people that areinterested in doing this, there
are a lot of organizations outthere that you can help and
participate with.
Roadies and rescues is a littledifferent, it's a little bit
more of a niche, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Which makes total sense.
I get the idea that a 16 hourroad trip truthfully, I wouldn't
want to do a 16 hour road tripwith in a van with a bunch of
dogs or cats yeah, I'm not builtfor that.
I get that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, but once people have been road tested and you
know that they can handle beingin a van.
Now I get it If they can handlebeing in a van with a bunch of
musicians which at times can belike a bunch of like feral
animals.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yes, now, I get it.
Now I'm making this connectionto understand why you, you know
you're very particular who youwant to have work with.
I get it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, good, well, and again, because of the lifestyle
and everything and the mentalhealth component of what, of how
we feel that what we do couldbe beneficial to people in
between tours.
I feel that other people whoaren't part of that, they have,
if they they probably alreadyhave a lifestyle and they
probably already have thingsthat are more conducive to
(37:48):
having outlets for those needsof mental health and whatnot,
right.
So that's why we're just tryingto stay very much on mission.
That we get offers from peopleto help us out, I get it, but
we're trying to stick with theconcert industry angle.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I get it.
That makes total sense.
And let me ask you to Paul youmentioned to me on the phone
that you had an idea at onepoint to.
We've talked talked a lot aboutthis now about mental health
for folks in the industry, whichis awesome, but you also
brought up an idea which Ithought was even more awesome
was the idea of bringing some ofthese rescue dogs to backstage
(38:27):
for the folks in the industry,that whole I want to sit with
the dog kind of a thing duringmy in my break to bring me that
calmness, that peace of mind,that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's a, it would bewell, there's a few ways that
that could be beneficial to boththe animals and to the people
in the industry.
So, from the first day thatMatt and I sat down and talked
about this, here's what I thinkhe was like.
Well, look, he's like I've.
I've been yeah, I've been agolden voice for 15 years and
he's like I know everybody inevery level of the offices at
(39:01):
the backstage of Coachella.
And he said we could, we couldarrange something where we would
get our own backstage trailer,the same way that the artists
have their own like backstageareas, and we could have like a
fenced in a doggy like play yardand people would love that Like
, because you know the show isgoing on all day long, right,
and the show is in the openingtime slot and they're playing at
(39:24):
noon.
They're just going to wanderaround for the rest of the day
and hang out and catering andsee their other buddies that are
roadies, that are that they,you know that happen to be
intersecting, that their toursare both bringing them to the
festival, and then they're goingto go maybe see a band on one
of the different stages orsomething.
But if they knew that there wasa place where they could go
hang out with dogs, I mean, whowouldn't avail themselves of
that kind of opportunity, right?
(39:45):
So he had the idea and he said,you know, we, we could do a
thing backstage at Coachella.
And then you know, and then, ofcourse, we immediately realized
, well, yeah, what we could dois we could find a rescue
organization in that area thathas dogs that have been at the
shelter for a long time.
We could have them bring thedogs.
They would be the ones whoprovide the dogs and then we
(40:06):
could live stream it on Facebookor YouTube.
So here we are backstage atCoachella and we've got these
dogs here and we're hanging outwith all these other roadies and
people and we could talk topeople and interview people and
inevitably it's there.
You would absolutely beguaranteed that at some point
the well-known artists are goingto, are going to walk by and
(40:26):
they're going to say, hey,what's this?
And they're going to, oh, Iwant to come in and play with
these dogs.
You know, and it just gives youa great opportunity to say hey,
like here's so-and-so who'sheadlining this particular stage
tonight, and they're back hereplaying with this dog who came
from the shelter in, you know,apple Valley or the shelter in
Riverside or whatever.
And, by the way, this dog needsto get adopted, you know, and
(40:49):
it would be a great opportunityfor us to get the word out there
and it would also be a way, too, that roadies and people who
are backstage at those festivals, who haven't heard of us, would
stumble upon us, oh, and youcan get more drivers and we
could get more drivers and wecould sort of recruit people,
and so we're not there yet, butit's in the works.
(41:09):
But it's in the works, I like it.
I like it, yeah, so we're it'sdefinitely.
We're trying to make moves inthat direction.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
I love it, I love this, I love what you're doing.
Thank you, it really is itreally is.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It has been incredibly fulfilling, I gotta
say, and going back to themental health component and
giving people something to lookforward to when they come off
the tour.
You know, I mean not to be grim, but there are hundreds of
animals every week that arebeing euthanized in shelters in
central California.
And just because there's a lotof overpopulation, for a variety
(41:41):
of reasons, a lot of theshelters, particularly in
central California, the Highway99 corridor south of Sacramento,
all the way down to LakeBakersfield and Lancaster a lot
of their shelters are just soovercrowded and they don't have
the personnel, they don't havethe budget, they just don't have
the resources to take care ofthe incredible inundation of
just the animals that areflooding in constantly.
(42:02):
And so when you have a van, ashectic and crazy as it gets and
believe me, it gets hectic andcrazy when you have crates in a
van and you have 18 dogs at atime- I can't.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Imagine.
I've transported my cats backand forth from Oregon, and that
was bad enough.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
That's a handful unto itself and then yeah, and so it
can be a wild and long day, butwhen you know that I've had
days where I've had 18 animalsin my 15 passenger van, with all
the seats taken out, and I'vehad 18 animals all in their
individual crates in there, andevery single one of those 18
(42:43):
animals was going to die thatweekend, every one of them was
scheduled for euthanasia, and sothey were the ones that were
urgent.
They were the ones that all ofthese different organizations
throughout Oregon and Washingtonsaid we are not going to let
those particular dogs die Like,if you can get them to us, we
will take care of their vetneeds, we will take care of
(43:06):
everything and we will findthese dogs a good home, Wow, and
cats too, and cats in somecases.
So when you do something likethat and it's the end of a again
, like you started your day at 8am and you're wrapping it up
and you're getting to your hotelroom at like midnight up in
Tacoma or Portland or wherever,but you know that every one of
(43:28):
those animals is alive becausethose organizations were able to
step up and throw you some gasmoney and you volunteered your
time and you put in that day,it's incredibly fulfilling.
And so for people to again tocome home from a tour expecting
that really bad crash thathappens afterwards, because
(43:50):
they're now separated from theirtour family and they're having
anxiety about being home andeverything.
That's an incredible thing tolook forward to.
Even if you knew you werecoming home for five weeks and
you just had one or two thingslike one or two days, like that,
emotionally, what that would dofor a person would be it would
really really help them, youknow, like lift their spirits.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
So the benefit for the roadies in the music
industry and the dogs.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I mean the animals definitelyneed this, so tell me what.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
so how can people help you?
I?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
know there's a.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
GoFundMe page.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, so we do have a GoFundMe that we've.
We've kept that campaign goingbecause we just continually get
a trickle of people who justkeep donating to it which is
great.
So those donations are alwayshelpful and of course we do like
PayPal and Venmo and thingslike that.
But I mean really right now,the biggest help is just sharing
our like, following us onFacebook and Instagram,
(44:49):
reposting or sharing our stuffjust to kind of get the word out
there.
Perfect, because we're stilljust trying to get the word out
to as many people as we can andinevitably, the more that the
word gets out there, the morethat people they really like
love the story and they lovewhat we're doing, and so the
donations end up kind of comingthrough the shares.
(45:09):
But I would also say that ifpeople were interested in
getting directly involved, butagain, if they don't necessarily
have concert industryexperience and they're not like
our demographic of people thatwe're trying to benefit, correct
.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
But then there's other places that they can go.
There's a lot of other placesthey can go and I hope somebody
says wow, I didn't know that,because that's one takeaway from
this conversation that nonmusic industry people, you can
go somewhere else and do this.
There is a huge need for this.
There is, and I would in termsof roadies and rescues.
You know, I know that you knowobviously a lot of people in the
(45:43):
music industry that might bereally didn't know about this.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, and now go wow, yeah, I didn't know that I want
to get involved, yeah, and forpeople that are not in the
concert industry who want to getinvolved, I would say that,
even more than donations andmoney, the best way you can help
your local organizations, the Iwould say, the linchpin of it
all, the thing that holds it alltogether, is fostering.
That is the most importantthing to do.
If you have housing, if youhave housing and you can pass,
(46:11):
then they don't do likenecessarily a background check
like a criminal background check, but they'll want to do home
inspections to make sure youmake sure that you have a proper
fence.
Yes, the dogs not going to runaway.
Yes, you know there's a lotyou'll have to fill out like
long questionnaires and beinterviewed and everything.
But being a foster is probablythe most vital, more than
(46:31):
donating money to anybody Ifyou're available and you can be
a foster because every time youcan foster an animal long enough
for it to get its vet caretaken care of, get its photos
taken, put up on the website andall of those things that they
need to do so they can startfielding applications for those
particular animals.
If you can foster a dog or acat or any other shelter animal
(46:54):
and have it for maybe a fewmonths, just long enough for it
to get adopted into itspermanent home Perfect yes.
And then you can go and fosteranother one.
Perfect, the fostering is byfar the greatest need that
anyone has in the rescuecommunity.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
That's the that's good to know.
Yeah, again, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And you can see listeners or hear listeners.
There is a process.
I didn't know that this wholeprocess was even in place in
terms of fostering all of thosethings and how each part of that
process is an important role.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, you can volunteer your time to go, help
walk and socialize the animals.
You can help volunteer yourtime to clean up the kennels.
You can donate money, you cando fostering, of course, if you
find an animal that you love andyou want to adopt it, that of
course is great as well.
That's always.
The goal is to find good homesfor all of them.
(47:47):
Yeah, there's myriad ways thatyou can get involved and help,
for sure, perfect.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Perfect, thank you.
Thank you so much, paul, notonly for just this conversation
today and trying to find a placefor this conversation today,
which, by the way, listeners, wewere all over the place because
it was raining and what haveyou.
But thank you so much for thework that you do for all the
animals.
Oh yeah, we're all the animals.
It's been the opportunity totalk about it.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
It's been incredibly fulfilling and, yeah, if I
hadn't sort of lucked my wayinto doing this during the
pandemic, it would have been amuch emotionally, it would have
been a much darker time for meRight.
It would have, I just.
But having all of this work tolook forward to while I was
unemployed and waiting forconcerts to come back, it's been
(48:36):
incredible.
It's funny because I tellpeople all the time that five or
six years ago, if you had toldme that this is the path, my
life would be on, I would havebeen.
I would not have shut the ideadown, but I would have been very
highly skeptical and now that Iam doing this, I can't imagine
not doing it.
Awesome.
So even with the obstacles thatwe've had of like how the
(48:58):
concert industry is just sooverloaded right now and it's
been hard to find the help fromthe roadies that we want to get
it hasn't deterred me because Ijust I can't imagine my life
without this.
Now, like this is just likethis is okay for the rest of my
life.
This is what I'm going to bedoing in some capacity, or other
I'm going to be involved inthis.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
So, listeners, you can go to the roadies and
rescues Facebook site.
Please do that.
You'll be up to date on allcurrent information and the
GoFundMe site and I'll havelinks to those on my website so
you can just click and go.
So thank you again.
Yeah, thank you.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Awesome Thanks.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I want to end this episode with kind of a
reflection on our bond with dogs.
I had talked to a friend ofmine, david Jackson from
Conservation Ambassadors, manyyears ago about what his
favorite animal was and this isa man that works with all kinds
of animals doing educationaloutreach and his response was
dogs.
And at the time it was like wow.
(49:58):
It kind of shocked me,especially when you know he's
standing next to a tiger or baldeagle.
I was like wow.
But over the years it has madeperfect sense to me and I think
probably it's the same bond andpassion that drives Paul as well
.
I asked him again recentlyabout this and I'd like to end
(50:20):
this wonderful episode with hisresponse.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I get asked all the time all these amazing animals,
they have lions and tigers andalligators and puppies and
everything.
What's your favorite animal?
And I always say my dog,because dogs are amazing.
I mean it's 40 to 60,000 yearsof man's best friend.
I mean they chose us.
The latest research shows thatdogs actually chose us.
(50:45):
We didn't choose them.
They decided to come to ourcamps and hang out with us and
that's in my honest relationshipand I can be at home with my
dog and I can turn my back on it.
I mean I love all of my wildfriends and they're wonderful to
work with.
I have great relationships.
I mean lifetime, multi-decaderelationships with a lot of
(51:07):
amazing animals, butunfortunately dogs don't live
that long Boy, for the time thatthey're here.
They are by far the greatestanimal on the planet to have
next to you and I wouldn't tradethem for anything.
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