September 10, 2024 • 56 mins
What if spending time in nature could significantly improve your mental and physical well-being? In our latest episode, we explore the transformative practice of forest bathing with our esteemed guest, Kira White, a certified forest therapy guide. With her background in psychology and education, Kira will walk us through how immersing oneself in a forest environment can reduce stress, enhance mood, and promote overall health. Broadcasting from the serene East Foothills of San Jose, we discuss the origins of forest bathing in Japan and its scientifically-backed benefits, emphasizing the importance of reconnecting with nature in our increasingly urbanized lives.
Join us as we uncover the structured yet open-ended process of forest therapy. Guided by certified practitioners, participants embark on a journey that begins with a calming meditation to quiet the mind and awaken the senses. Through a series of gentle invitations, like observing what is in motion, individuals disconnect from daily distractions and connect deeply with the natural world. The experience culminates in a heartfelt council share, fostering vulnerability and community among participants. We also highlight the flexibility of forest therapy, adaptable for diverse group sizes and activities, from leisurely strolls to invigorating hikes.
We also delve into the nuances that set forest bathing apart from traditional hiking. This mindful practice emphasizes presence and connection with nature rather than reaching a destination. We share personal stories of connecting with trees and the therapeutic benefits of spending quiet, intentional time in nature. Discover how forest therapy has gained popularity worldwide, adaptable even in urban settings. Finally, we reflect on the profound personal significance of trees and conclude with a serene reading of Mary Oliver's poem "When I Am Among the Trees," reminding us to slow down and embrace the beauty of the natural world.
Forest photo courtesy of: InkWell_Literary
Kira White's website – Forest Bathing Collective
Forest Bathing in Japan
ForestBathingfinder.com
Association of Nature & Forest Therapy
Things that make you say "Wow"!
For more episodes and additional information visit the Two Chicks and a Hoe website and our Facebook page.
Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Imagine starting your day, like many of us do, with
the sound of your alarm clock.
You pull yourself out of bedafter a night that feels way too
short.
You quickly check your phone,already filled with emails and
notifications, and you haven'teven had your coffee yet.
And the commute to work isstressful.
Your day is stressful.
(00:22):
By the time you get home,you're feeling worn out, but
still buzzing with the day'sdemands.
You try to relax, but your mindis filled with thoughts of
unfinished tasks and thepressures of tomorrow.
The evening news doesn't help,adding to your sense of anxiety.
You find yourself scrollingthrough social media, feeling
(00:44):
disconnected and overwhelmed.
Now imagine a different way toend your day.
Instead of being consumed byscreens and stress, you take a
walk in a nearby forest or park.
The air is fresh, the sounds ofnature are soothing and you
begin to feel your worries meltaway.
(01:04):
This is the essence of forestbathing immersing yourself in
nature to reconnect with theworld around you and with
yourself.
It's a practice that helpsreduce stress, boost your mood
and provide a sense of calm andclarity.
By spending time in nature, youcan find a natural remedy to
(01:27):
the hectic pace of modern life,helping you feel more balanced
and at peace.
Forest bathing, or shinrin yokuin Japanese, is a practice that
involves immersing yourself ina forest environment to promote
(01:52):
mental and physical health.
It originated in Japan in the1980s as a response to the
increasing levels of stress andtechnology, and has become
common in Japanese medicine forpreventative health care and
healing, and it does not requirea bath or a rubber duck Force.
(02:12):
Bathing is more than just awalk in the woods.
It's an immersive experiencethat engages all your senses,
helping you reconnect withnature and yourself.
Studies have shown it canreduce stress, boost your mood
and even improve your immunesystem.
(02:34):
Thank you, hi everyone.
(03:11):
Welcome to another episode ofTwo Chicks and a Hoe, the
podcast that talks to amazingpeople doing great things in the
world.
I'm excited to introduce youall to Kira White, our guide
today to the world of forestbathing.
Kira is a trained and certifiedforest therapy guide with the
Association of Nature and ForestTherapy.
(03:33):
Kira brings a wealth ofknowledge and experience to her
practice.
With a background in psychologyand education, holding both a
degree in psychology and amaster's in education, Kira
combines her academic expertisewith her passion for nature.
Kira has discovered thatspending time in the forest
brings a profound sense ofhealing and peace, and she's
(03:57):
dedicated to sharing thisexperience with others,
demonstrating how these walkscan effectively manage stress
and alleviate symptoms ofdepression and anxiety.
Hello Kira, we need you.
We need you.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and sharing your
(04:17):
passion.
I can't wait to hear about thispractice.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Thank you.
Thank you, I'm happy.
Thank you for asking me.
I'm happy, awesome.
Yeah, I'm happy to be here andtalk about something I love.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Awesome, cool and we are in an amazing setting.
You guys, we're up in gosh.
I don't know what.
For our mountain ranges is thisthis, this year as well.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I believe.
So we call it the EastFoothills of San Jose.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Excellent, so we are in Northern California, in the
Bay Area, guys, and we are in abeautiful setting, in the
foothills, it's summertime, it'svery dry, but it sure is pretty
still.
It really is.
So I wanted to share astatistic with you before we get
started, because I think youguys have already figured out.
(05:07):
I really love the statisticsassociated with all this
information.
So, by 2050, and really that'snot really far away now, is it?
It's only like 25 years awayhere 66% of the world's
population is projected to livein cities and, according to a
study sponsored by theEnvironmental Protection Agency
(05:31):
you're going to this blows meaway the average American spends
93% of their time indoors.
So we're going to talk a littledifferently about that today.
So we're going to talk a littledifferently about that today.
Tell us, kira, tell us aboutforest bathing what it is and, I
guess, a little bit of itshistory on it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Sure, sure.
Well, forest bathing is achance to get quiet in the
forest.
It's a chance to meet up with.
A lot of times people do gettraining in the actual practice
of forest bathing.
I'm certified with theAssociation of Nature and Forest
(06:16):
Therapy, as you said, so it'sgoing out into the forest and
with a guide and doinginvitations.
So there's some standardsequence of invitations that are
being done.
Oh, what does that mean?
So basically, you can do foresttherapy with a group or you can
(06:37):
do forest therapy one-on-one.
I particularly like to do itwith more than one other person
and myself.
Just the group dynamics is kindof nice to be able to share.
So the invitations areopen-ended and we start with a
meditation, some kind of it,well, an introduction first, and
then we do a meditation ofsorts and get quiet.
(07:02):
So it's not a hike, it's not ajog, it's not a workout, but
there are forest therapy guidesthat do this in conjunction to
an active practice, like they'llgo.
There's one forest or there'snot one.
There's many forest therapyguides that will maybe do a hike
and incorporate the invitations.
(07:22):
So the invitation start withthe meditation introduction, the
group getting quiet, startingto awaken your senses to the
forest, okay, and then afterthat there's a series of
invitations that the forestdictates.
(07:43):
So, I'm not.
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm, I'm not a forest therapist, the forest is the guide.
Oh, okay, got it.
And I am also a guide.
So I'm a guide there.
So I'm not, I'm the forest, theforest is actually.
I'm so sorry, the forest is isyour is the therapist and I am
(08:05):
the guide.
Got it?
I think I said that differently.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
That's okay.
So you're basically sayingyou're the one that gets the
people there, but it's theforest that does the work.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So to speak.
Yeah, yeah, got it.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So there's, you set up the direction.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
so to speak Right, so the invitations are very
open-ended.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I'm not quite clear what an invitation is, because
it sounds like you.
Are you inviting me to go withyou?
That's not what you're saying,is it?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I am saying that in some ways grounded in um, in
nature, and slow down with themeditation, being able to awaken
, like the sense of uh see, youknow all the senses, looking at,
at, getting quiet, um,connecting and grounding to the
earth.
And then after that I'll give asuggested invitation for the
group.
Maybe the first one is, in thestandard sequence, is what's in
motion.
So what I would do is offer theinvitation to the group what's
(09:13):
in motion and then give you somesort of timeframe depending on
how long the walk is that day.
Typically, a walk is two and ahalf to three hours, but they
can be shorter and they can belonger.
It just depends on thetimeframe that people have in
the world or you have in yourschedule.
And so, with the invitationwhat's in motion, maybe it's 15
(09:35):
minutes and it's a chance to,I'll kind of give a boundary and
then the participant will walkaround and just that's.
The only thing that I suggestof them is to be looking at
what's in motion, to let go ofwhat's happened before they got
(09:55):
to the space, what's happened atit was going to happen.
To let go of the laundry, thegrocery list, the phone calls
that need to be made, maybe turnoff the phone in the pocket.
We don't usually get very manypeople on the phone out in
nature, thank goodness.
(10:16):
And then what I'll do is I'llsometimes use a shaker as a
reminder, so, as people are inthis space and kind of just
wandering it can be on a trailor it can be in an open area and
slowing their steps down andgetting more grounded and so
(10:40):
I'll use a shaker to remindpeople, because of course, our
minds are going to travel, right.
So I'll do a shaker just toremind people like, oh, maybe
your mind has traveled towhatever it's going to travel to
and try to bring it back to theinvitation.
What's in motion.
And so I'll use a shaker likethis.
(11:02):
And so I'll use a shaker likethis.
And then it's just a suggestion, very open-ended.
And then when we come back fromthe invitations, we do a council
share.
So we'll sit in a circle orstand in a circle and share our
experience, and my question foreveryone is what are you
(11:30):
noticing?
So that's the open-endedquestion and the counsel share
is a sharing where no one isresponding to you.
Sometimes we'll use a talkingpiece, a rock, or stick in the
circle.
Sometimes we'll use a talkingpiece, a rock or stick in the
circle and that person has theground.
They get to talk about whatthey're noticing.
(11:52):
But, honestly, silence is verypowerful and this is also kind
of a playful practice.
So we also encourage, if you'dlike to, if you want to sing or
dance when it's.
I've taken people out when it'sbeen 32 degrees and I've had
(12:12):
some people moving their bodyand dancing around.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
To stay warm.
To stay warm.
Yeah, wow, okay.
So I get that, and I like theidea too of coming back and
sharing, if you want, but theidea that no one else needs to
speak of to that, because Ithink we I think my experience
too is that we live in a culturethat somebody says something
(12:41):
and somebody has to comment onit or put their you know, their
their two cents in kind of athing which I think can be
restrictive to people sometimes,then, because they're always
feel like they're being judged.
So, yeah, I like that.
That's a great idea, you bringup a good point, that's a really
good point.
Yeah, I guess that's what cameup for me.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yes, that you it came up for me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yes, you know, speaking of your experience can
make you very vulnerable as well.
Yeah, I think that's part ofthe process, isn't it?
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Definitely part of the process and I think also,
yeah, being able to listen.
You know, like I've heardrecently to be.
You know, to have successfulrelationships is trying to do
80% listening and 20% talking.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I love that.
I do too.
I think that stands very true.
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Wow.
So it's very non, like I said,prescriptive and also
non-outcome based, so I'm notgoing out on a walk and looking
for a certain outcome from aperson.
Everyone's personal experiencesare different.
Some people are very verbal ontheir sharing, some people have
(13:55):
really profound experiences,some people are very quiet, some
people.
It can bring up all kinds ofdifferent feelings involved.
So it changes and, of course,depending on where you do forest
therapy, the environmentchanges, how you're feeling and
(14:16):
what you're going to be noticing.
If it's a very windy day, thewhat's in motion invitation is
going to change from a verystill day or if you're by a
water source.
Let's say which we encouragepeople to always put their feet
or hands in in a, you know, acreek or the side of a lake or
something like that okay, I okay, I get it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So it's.
Is it meditation?
It sounds different thanmeditation.
It is different than meditation.
Okay, yes, tell me that, thenit's an experience.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
There we go.
It's an experience.
I think it's a.
It's a.
Is it a walking meditation, soto speak?
It can be, it can be, yes soyou start with a suggested
meditation and then, after Igive that invitation invitation,
then I'll give anotherinvitation and it.
(15:09):
So it changes, and there'sthousands of invitations that
have been created by foresttherapy guides, but there's
probably hundreds of thousandsthat could be given, so maybe
the next invitation could bewould you like to, or just go
(15:30):
out and look at textures?
And so the next invitation wouldbe, maybe that you would go and
look at textures and, if you'dlike to, maybe perhaps bring
something back to share.
Try not to pick anything off oftrees or plants.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Right, right right.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And of course we give safety precautions wherever we
are.
In California you know we havepoison oak and snakes and most
of the guides are wildernessfirst aid trained.
That's a good thing.
Yeah, so we're out there.
I mean, there is wildlife.
We haven't seen anything reallybig and scary, but we've seen
(16:12):
all kinds of other deer and wildturkeys and, of course, a
myriad of birds and squirrelsand things.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You know, I just had a thought, because I spend a lot
of time in the forest and in, Iguess, the drier lands, what
have you?
I spent a lot of time hikingand I kept thinking well, this
is like hiking, this is, youknow, it's got to be.
You go into the forest and youget quiet.
But I'm seeing, at least for me, this it's not like hiking,
(16:45):
like you said, but even more sobecause when I go hiking, I have
a destination in mind and I'mreally focused in on getting
there and you know, and gettingback, whatever that is.
You know, I got my five milesin.
I you know I did whatever thatwas.
But I do notice, when I'mhiking and I stop, and when I
(17:09):
actually become very present andtune into a tree or a grove of
trees or some flowers, that kindof thing, my experience changes
.
That's what you're talkingabout, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think so.
I think it's different foreveryone and yeah, it is not a
height A.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
J a blue J just landed.
Oh, you came to say hi.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I know, and I just saw a thrasher behind us too.
So we're surrounded by birdshere, everyone.
They decided we're safe enoughenough and they've come to visit
, and that's one is actually avery good point in forest
(18:07):
therapy or forest bathing.
Is that one suggestion by theguides.
Every day, somewhere near yourhome, or, if you don't have that
kind of setting, if you canpossibly just even outside your
front door, because you'll besurprised if you sit with nature
for 20 minutes every day, andsometimes in the same spot, that
nature decides you're safe andall of a sudden, all the birds
that have flown away, ordifferent creatures that have
left because you walked out thefront door, return after they
(18:29):
realize that you're safe andsound, and so safe and sound.
And so that is one of thesuggestions of the actual
training, and so the Associationof Nature and Forest Therapy
has been training guides allaround the world Costa Rica,
(18:50):
australia, europe.
Tons of trainings are being donein all over Japan, all across
the United States.
So we are thousands strong now.
So there's many people outthere doing this in all kinds of
cities.
Okay, is there a high demandfor this?
(19:12):
It depends on the group.
Certain places, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And so I'm thinking from what I read the history of
this and like I think we kind ofmentioned too that this happens
everywhere, I mean across theglobe, in the forest people, the
things that you're talkingabout, maybe not necessarily
guided, so to speak, but peoplehave been doing this, going to
(19:38):
the forest for their therapy foryears or for millennia across
cultures, their therapy foryears or for millennia through
across cultures.
But in Japan, the they call itthe practice of Shinrin-yoku.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Am I saying that correctly.
Yes, perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Shinrin-yoku.
Shinrin-yoku, which is thepractice of forest bathing, kind
of like, in 1982, it becamemore of a I don't know an
accepted thing, a thing, aguided, a real thing, so to
speak, and they use that now asa form of therapy, right, kind
(20:13):
of as a form of healing medicine.
So what I'm reading too is that, like you said, there's guides
in Costa Rica and Australia.
They're kind of are thereparticular gosh for lack of a
better word are there particularhot spots across the globe that
call more to this?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I do hear what you're saying.
I just think it's growing.
I think California definitelyhas a lot of guides.
There are other organizationsthat also train guides.
It's not just one, this justhappens to be the most well, I
(21:00):
don't know, I don't want to saycomprehensive or maybe
well-known group, but there areother organizations that are
training guides.
I know I've heard Asheville,north Carolina, that it's such a
popular practice that some ofmy guiding companions have.
It's competitive there toactually to be able to get
(21:22):
people out, because there's somany forest therapy guides in
that particular area.
I would say wherever nature is,where it's everywhere, because
you can do forest therapy reallyanywhere.
You could do it in a city park,you could do it with a plant.
(21:42):
One of my mentors and I think Ihave two for a presentation
We've done some indoor foresttherapy where we just bring some
plants and collected thingsfrom outdoors and one of my
mentors has been doing it innursing homes and it's really
(22:03):
brought about a lot of amazinghealing and just connection, a
lot of memories.
They'll put out a table ofnatural items and then they'll
get to come and choose somethingand certain trees and plants or
a rock will bring back a memoryfor them that they would love
(22:25):
to share.
For example, as we're walkingto the place, usually with
forest therapy, we meet in aparking lot area near a trail or
a natural setting it could be apark and as we're walking to
the location where I'd like tostart the walk, I always ask
everyone this question is therea tree in your life?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh, I like that.
I like that because I lovetrees.
I have trees in my life and Italk to them.
Oh my gosh, I'm tellingeverybody all my secrets here.
I talk to them and I give them.
There is an exchange of energyon a regular basis, you know,
(23:13):
with the birds, with the birdsand but the trees in particular
I have.
I'm seeing three trees in myown yard that I have a lot of
connection with.
That provide me an incredibleamount of energy and shade and
all of those things.
But there is I love that.
I never thought of that beforeand I actually never thought of
(23:33):
my own connection like thatbefore too.
Great, yeah, very interesting.
So, and that I was going to askyou that as well, but I think
you've already answered it.
I was going to ask can you dothis type of forest bathing, or
what else is it?
Nature therapy, how do you get?
What else was the word Foresttherapy?
(23:53):
Forest therapy?
Forest therapy Forest therapy,or forest bathing, okay, yes,
but the word forest itself isvery specific and I'm wondering
can you do this at the ocean?
Can you do this?
You know, in the desert Can youdo this type of therapy and not
in a forest situation, but itsounds like you can, because you
did it at a nursing home.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
You can do it anywhere, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
So really I'm a certified nature and forest
therapy guide.
Got it, so any nature Got it.
The beach is a beautiful placeto do this practice.
The desert has so many thingsto offer.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Right, right, just types, different types of
experience.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, there's so many different types.
Yes, yeah, there's so manydifferent places.
You know, living in California,I'm very lucky right now I get
to't be forest bathing or foresttherapy without hugging a tree,
and so I've suggested I justsuggested you do not have to
(25:04):
come out and hug a tree, youdon't have to be a tree hugger,
but I've had some people shareprofound feelings about that,
about how they felt hugging aparticular tree.
Yeah, I've had some reallyprofound, you know, thoughts,
even though it could be a joke.
(25:25):
But we do one of theinvitations and the suggestion
everything's suggestion,everything's, perhaps,
everything's open-ended,nothing's prescriptive.
So one of the suggestions thatwe have is to go sit with a
being.
So when I'm talking about abeing in forest bathing, we
(25:49):
believe that we are all natureand so we are human beings, and
then everything else out thereis a being.
And so there is an invitationthat we invite you to do a sit
spot with a being, any being.
It can be a rock, a tree, alittle bush, you know, whatever
(26:10):
you feel like to go sit with abeing, whatever you feel like to
go sit with a being.
And so when we as humanspossibly maybe you're standing
on the edge of something likethe Grand Canyon, looking over
and thinking, oh, look at howbeautiful that is way out there.
Well, you are that, we are that.
(26:34):
You are nature.
You are part of it, we are partof it.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I'm listening.
I love it.
I'm listening.
Tell me more about that.
Tell our listeners more aboutthat, please, so we are nature.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
it's not that we are separate.
We are connected.
Nature is us.
You are nature.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
There's no separation .
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We're a mammal, we are nature out there beyond us
is?
I mean, it can be the way thatyou're thinking, but can we
switch the dialogue and for youto realize the question what are
(27:25):
you noticing?
And that maybe not consideredreally the answer, but that
you're part of this, that youare nature, you're not separate.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So, kira, I want to talk about I guess I want to
back up a sec, yeah, because I'mquite fascinated actually that
the idea that I think people arerealizing more and more that
being so connected to the tech,technology world, whether it's
(27:59):
our phone or computers orwhatever that is, um is um,
sucks the life out of you.
That's, that's my wording, myinterpretation of it.
Sure, but um, and and the ideathat the whole, the, the
Japanese government, witnessedthis and saw what was happening
and created kind of a more of aformal title for the force
(28:20):
bathing, but the whole idea thatI mean, as I mentioned,
listeners, you know we're in theBay Area, the tech capital of
the world.
You know where it all kind ofstarted, but I can imagine that
the demand, or maybe even thedemand for it, is high here.
But I think there has to besome kind of realization first
(28:45):
before they recognize that theneed for this.
Am I correct?
Sure, tell me more about youknow how are people.
How are people getting this?
How are they finally going?
The light bulbs come on.
Oh my god, I, I need this.
I'm I'm not okay.
I need this and tell me aboutsome of the the benefits as well
(29:06):
and people can be okay and notokay.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yes, because people can be highly functional.
It's not it's not a practicethat a promise to solve anything
.
So you can be completely okayand come out and do forest
therapy and just, you know,would like to spend a few hours
having an experience in nature.
(29:31):
Yes, in nature.
I agree with you abouttechnology, that putting our
phones away is a great idea andthat that was one of the reasons
that the Japanese governmentdoes mandate a lot of this for
their workers.
They take busloads of people toactually forest bathing.
(29:52):
They're designating differentforests outside of Tokyo as
forest bathing centers and youwill show up and they take your
vital signs and then you do thewalk, including a tea.
We have a tea.
We do a forest tea when we goout and they do the walk and
(30:19):
then they do the vital signsafter to show how much heart
rate has come down and differentthings have come down from
doing this practice as a stressrelief.
Wow, yes, so I've had apartnership with a wellness
coach that brings some of herclients out and then to get the
(30:43):
word out is, you know, it's justword of mouth.
You know something like this isgreat Right right right and then
I also work with in here inCalifornia there's a farm it's
called Hidden Villa and it's afarm and wilderness area and a
trust.
It has a lot of educationalthings, so I work with them.
(31:06):
Nice and a nonprofit I knowthat we were talking about that.
This is not just Californiabased, but I work with an
environmental nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I'm their he one of their healing and nature guides,
nice, and then I were in thenonprofit is green foothillsorg
and then I just recently gotinto Stanford and took out their
wellness team.
So my goal, what I would loveto do with my own practice, my
own goal is I would like to getthis into the college setting
(31:42):
and because most collegecampuses have some sort of
park-like, forest-like settings,and so I would love for it to
be mainstream and to get taughtin the psychology programs and
it is being offered in somecampuses now that forest therapy
(32:04):
is actually on the campus andthat students can just sign up
for it and do some foresttherapy on.
You know, let's say maybe I haveno idea their timeframe, but
maybe Tuesdays, every Tuesday at11am, there's forest therapy on
.
You know, let's say maybe Ihave no idea their timeframe,
but maybe Tuesdays, everyTuesday at 11am, there's forest
therapy and it's connected tothe wellness center.
Most campuses, almost allcampuses, now have wellness type
(32:27):
centers and that students cango there and know that they
could be involved in a foresttherapy walk.
So that's a big goal of mineright now is to get it there.
So the actual APA we had a hugewin this year.
The APA what's an APA?
(32:47):
The APA the AmericanPsychiatric Association who puts
out the DSM.
I think we're on five now.
What's a DSM?
So that is that's like all thediagnosis for the psych, for
psych in psychology.
So that's like their bookletlike like their huge not booklet
, huge book that has all thedifferent diagnosis and approved
(33:10):
things.
Okay so, and don't quote me onall of that, if you're a
psychology person I may besaying this wrong, but anyway,
so I, but I do know that this isjust great information.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
So I do know this, that we have been spores.
Therapy has been approved as amodality for healing.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Really I love that.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Really so we have.
I've had amazing functionalmedicine.
Doctors prescribe this andpeople call me and say, my
doctor, functional medicine, awalk with you and be part of
this program.
So it is going to be I thinkI'm hoping it's going to be more
(34:06):
and more, more mainstream.
I love it and a useful thingfor everybody.
I love it.
It's for everyone, for foreverybody.
I love it, it's for everyone,it's for everyone.
And the thing about that, thefact is, is that I've had
children come out and I've hadall the way up into people into
their nineties.
(34:26):
So it's not age, it's not likepigeonholed by age, right right,
and even saying that, too, it'snot super strenuous.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
No, again, we're not taking a hike up the mountain,
exactly.
Got it Okay, I love it.
That's awesome.
I'm so glad it's getting thattype of recognition, then, as
being a type of therapy.
Me too, Wow, Good.
So how often I mean?
(34:55):
You already mentioned so one ofmy questions was how much time
to bathe.
How much time do you bathe?
But you kind of said that twohours I mean.
So what is the standard timeand how often should one do this
?
I guess it depends on whatyou're looking to get out of it.
Help me out with that, Kira.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Did you want to know the standard time of a walk, or
the standard time of how manytimes, or both, both, both, okay
, yeah, both.
I want to know everythingBefore I answer your question.
What I forgot to do is that atthe beginning is that we always
do a land acknowledgement withour walks, and so I would like
(35:34):
to acknowledge the land aroundus, the tribal land of our
ancestors, the Miwok and theOhlone tribes that we're sitting
on right now.
So we will always do anacknowledgement and we also are
very caring to the land that wewalk on Nice and make sure that
(35:57):
we leave no trace.
Of course, nice right, and asfar as how long?
I mean, I feel I might bebiased here, but I feel like
everyone needs forest therapyand I've had people come out
multiples, and I've had peoplecome out multiples.
I've had people come out weekly.
(36:17):
In our training that we do withAssociation of Nature and
Forest Therapy, we go and do animmersion, and so we did four
days in a row of forest therapy.
You can choose your area of theworld you want to do your
training in and we do four daysof force therapy and I thought
(36:38):
that before I went like that'sgoing to be a lot, and when I
left it wasn't enough.
So I think it's kind of up toyou.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
There's not a really prescription Okay.
Yeah.
So a lot of the people thatcome to you, or let me ask this
so the people that come to youprescribed, so to speak, okay
from you, called it a specifictype of doctor Functional
medicine, functional medicine,okay, I've never heard of that
Functional medicine Moreholistic approach to medicine.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
They still use many of the same things, but it's a
more holistic approach.
A combination of all differenttypes of practices and they
still will do blood work anddifferent things, but it's much
more holistic.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Okay, so a lot of the people that come to you via the
functional medicine route.
Is there a pattern that you'reseeing?
Is it anxiety?
What is it?
I mean, if you can share thatwith us.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I think it might be stress and anxiety and some
depression sometimes.
I mean, I've had people comeout.
I had one participant that cameout and realized that she
hadn't been in nature in monthsbecause she lived in a home I
(38:05):
think a townhome that has agarage and she would open her
garage door, put her car in thegarage and go into the house and
she never was in any kind ofnature for months and months,
and months.
Yeah, so there are people thatdo you know that that that will
(38:28):
do that Right?
So, um well, according to thatstatistic.
yeah, and I can't say that'sgoing to cause a person stress.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Right, right Because.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I'm not, you know, I'm not a doctor Right, and
everyone's different.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
But I love the fact that it is being prescribed and
I love that the wellness centersaround the United States, yes,
and I'm not sure about the worldI hope the world, but the
United States are suggesting itas a modality for students and
people to feel better.
I mean, for example, Harvardhas I think they still have a
(39:03):
thing called Walk with Trees andI think it's professor based
campus that is doing somethinglike that, that you can meet at
a certain time and you walk withwalk around the campus in the
(39:24):
trees.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I'm not I'm not sure who it's for this is sort of
just something I heard.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
If somebody has more information, maybe we can get
that from them, but I love theidea, the idea of something like
that Keep, keep it going.
And if they're going to offeryou know, if they're going to
say that forest therapy is ahealing modality, then I really
feel, like in the colleges, likewe need to get some coursework
for these students that aretaking psychology Like an
(39:45):
elective needs to be foresttherapy.
So when they go into practicethey'll know what it is.
And I've also seen some, orheard about some, psychologists
that are taking out, ortherapists are taking out their
patients and doing their therapyoutdoors now so still doing the
talk.
They're right in their talk,therapy right, but doing it
(40:08):
outside so getting that addedbenefit?
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, wow, wow.
I want to share an experiencethat I had that I don't think
it's.
I'll just tell you, because I'mtrying to categorize stuff and
I'm recognizing that's not howthis really works, because, you
(40:31):
know, is it the forest, theocean, the desert?
This it's nature, it's nature,it's nature, it's nature.
So a couple of years ago I wasup in Washington state and I
went with some friends to theOlympia forest and we went in
specifically looking for theycall it the telephone in the
(40:52):
wind.
I'm not sure if you've everheard of that, but I was like
sure I'm game, they'd heardabout it.
So you have to.
I wouldn't say it was a hike,but we walked in and it was a
beautiful forest, you know, likea fern forest.
It was darker and it was, youknow, much more shady and it had
a coolness to it.
So it was different than manyof the California forests that
(41:15):
I've been in and it was veryhumid and moist.
So it was a great walk-in andthere was three of us and all of
a sudden, in the opening therewas a phone there, an old rotary
phone, and the idea is to andit was so natural, kira, the
(41:39):
three of us long-time friends.
One walked towards the phoneand the other two disappeared
into the forest and gave thatperson that time, and the idea
is to have those conversationsthat you can no longer have.
And the idea is to have thoseconversations that you can no
longer have, whether it's oh, itwas a very profound experience
(42:00):
for me Whether it's somebodythat you've lost or an
unfinished conversation.
It was a great experience to beable to pick up the phone.
I even knew the phone number.
I dialed and I had thatconversation.
I hung up, I disappeared intothe forest and my friend you
(42:20):
know, my next friend got on thephone.
It was a, like I said, veryprofound, a great experience.
And then we walked out of theforest.
It was put there.
A gentleman put that there sothat he could talk to his
daughter that had passed, a veryyoung girl, and I found that to
(42:42):
be amazing therapy.
And it wasn't just the idea ofthe telephone, it was the idea
of it being out in a very remoteplace and in the forest,
amongst the trees, in thatenergy and all of the greenness
(43:03):
that was there.
It was so, you know, the air.
Everything about it wasdifferent, so different than if
I had tried something like that,you know, in the neighborhood
or whatever.
To me that was my type ofnature therapy.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yes, yeah, beautiful.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, I love that and I mean,and I think that's amazing and I
could see how that would justbe a wonderful experience or
just like even just a profoundexperience.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
But the difference with forest therapy is there's
no prescription.
So if we did come upon a phone,somebody could use it, however,
they wanted to, and that wasthe same.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
That was that concept .
Yeah, because afterwards it wasone of those things as such
close friends, it's like, okay,who'd you call you know?
Yeah, it was that concept.
Yeah, because afterwards it wasone of those things as such
close friends, it's like, ok,who'd you call you know?
It was like, who'd you call?
Yeah, you know, and it was sodifferent for us.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, you know, and it was so cool.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
I love that.
It was so cool.
Those unfinished conversations.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or I gotta say one more thingto you.
You know that kind of a thing.
It was good, yeah, it was good,sure, so, yeah, so I understand
I, the power of, of nature andthe power of being in the, in
the forest, yeah, very powerful,very powerful.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yes, it is.
Yeah, it can bring up a lot ofthings.
Some people it can bring upjust a sense of sometimes heart
opening or grief.
Sometimes for people yes,absolutely Feeling grief will
kind of notice the existence ofdecay that is happening around
(44:53):
them, because when you're in theforest there'll be like a
fallen down tree that'sdecomposing, but then there'll
be like a beautiful fern or abeautiful tree right next to it
or a beautiful moss laden rock,and they all coexist together
and that's sometimes a bigrealization for a lot of people.
(45:16):
I mean, honestly, when I startedmy practice, I was finding
nature to be really healing andI was living in Southern
California and I was spending alot of time in traffic and a lot
of cement and it was thelocation I was living in was
(45:36):
very difficult to get to natureeasily.
I got bits and pieces here andthere, but not like real, like
trail, forest type things.
It was a challenge and I wascoming up here to visit and
going on a lot of trails up hereand honestly, um, I kept kind
(45:57):
of hearing the words.
I knew there was a japanesepractice and I was like what,
like you?
Like you were asking me what isthe name of the practice, um, I
kind of kept hearing it when Iwould go on these hikes and I
started to go on solo hikes andI started just to feel this
(46:17):
large amount of healing.
So then I went home and did alot of research and found out
there is this practice called itIs Real, because I wasn't sure
is this real, am I reallyfeeling this?
And then I found out there issuch real like am I really
feeling this?
And then I found out there issuch a thing called shinrin yoku
.
And then I had my mom, whopassed away, and, um, I started
(46:41):
going into the forest, um, andhiking to get through that grief
and I, I, for some reason, whenI was getting through the grief
, I noticed the decay in theforest, a lot Like, oh, there's
this old stump there, you know,there's this old tree, there's
this old thing.
And then I went and got mycertification and as I was doing
(47:07):
forest therapy with otherpeople and taking people out, I
realized I had stopped seeingthe decay as much.
It was just during that kind ofduring that grief period, even
though I know grief is like awave and comes and goes During
that time, but then so that'show what got me into forest
(47:33):
therapy was after researchingShinrin-yoku, and after
experiencing the healing that Iwas experiencing after I was in
nature, I decided I'd like togive it to others if I could.
So, I did my training and havebeen doing it ever since.
(47:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So it was very like evolutionary for me.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
you know it was, and this is years.
This is in a span of, you know,three, four years that all of
this occurred.
But and then you know, like Isaid, everyone could use it.
We have one of our mentors.
One of the mentors, big mentorand it's ANFT is the acronym is
(48:20):
Ben Page, who did a lot ofwriting for the program, and
then the founder is AmosClifford, who founded the
program in Santa Rosa,california.
Okay, but Ben lives in LosAngeles and we were asking him
well, why are you living?
in LA if you're a forest therapyguy.
(48:41):
Like why wouldn't you be, youknow, in I don't know, you know
in the forest somewhere?
You know, living in Yosemite orliving in, you know, Wyoming or
something, and he said thereare millions of people in Los
Angeles and they all need foresttherapy.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh, he goes to where it was called.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So a lot of forest therapy guides will have
partnerships with arboretums andnature areas, especially in the
big cities, right?
So if you go to like a website,like in Santa Barbara or even
in Chicago, the differentarboretums, botanical centers,
you can go to their website andyou'll probably find something
(49:29):
about healing in nature orforest therapy.
Maybe not, but there's a lot ofguides that work out of that
all the way into, I know, likethe Boston One of my trainers is
from like the Boston area,massachusetts area, and so a lot
of people are working withdifferent universities.
(49:52):
I know Yale has a big program,a lot of my guides.
There's a guide there thatworks with them.
So if you are looking forguides, of course you can go on
a website and or Google it, butyou may want to try a nature
type botanical center and youmight find a program there
(50:14):
Excellent, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
So I wanted to ask you that too, so our listeners
can.
If you're interested inparticipating in forest therapy,
we'll have a couple of websiteson the Two Chicks and a Hoe
website that you can check out,the two chicks in a hoe website
that you can check out.
But I like that, that idea thatgoing through botanical centers
(50:36):
, botanical gardens, even someuniversities, to find those
people, to find that type offorest therapy.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Well, if you're, living in a big city, it doesn't
matter Exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Exactly Okay, because usually right, you don't have
to live, it doesn't matter.
Exactly.
Exactly Okay, because usuallyRight, you don't have to live in
the deep forest somewhere.
Exactly, I know we'd like to,but yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Right, Because most cities have.
You know, New York City hasCentral Park.
I'm not sure if there'ssomething going on at Central.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Park Right right.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
But you know, every city has some sort of green
space and Some sort of greenspace.
And usually the green spacemaybe has a nature center
connected to it.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
And you're saying that's enough.
That's all I mean.
Again, it doesn't have to bethe big, grandiose forest you
know, with nobody in sight.
It can be a little patch ofland.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, Typically a forest bathing walk is not more
than a couple miles total.
Okay, Maybe you know, and thatcould even be far, and you know
that could even be a longdistance.
It depends on how much walkingthe participant wants to do and
what kind of terrain you're on.
You know, because some forestbathing walks can be all
(51:47):
trail-led.
Forest bathing walks can be alltrail led and some of them can
be kind of an open or more openspace where people can wander
from one point, Got it.
But there's also Forest BathingFinder dot com or dot org.
It would be another place.
(52:08):
And then the Association ofNature and Forest Therapy has
guides listed on their website.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Okay, alright, you guys, I'll put those up.
I'm writing them down before Iforget, so I'll put those up on
the website.
So if you're interested infinding somebody to help you or
find the right place, this willhelp.
Awesome, yes, thank you, you'revery welcome.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Anything else you'd like?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
to add for the listeners.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
We're waiting for something.
Let's see what would I like toadd.
Well, I just appreciate youhaving me and I hope that
whoever's listening can get outthere with someone.
And it is different going witha guide.
Everyone has told me that,because a lot of people say, oh,
I go in nature.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Well, that's what I was going to say too.
I hike all the time, but I'mthinking the guide thing might
be something different.
I need to try this.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yes, yeah, it's because it's, you know, a lot of
slowing down.
You know a lot of slowing down.
We wrap things up with what wecall forest tea or a tea at the
(53:25):
end where we provide some sortof forage, either forage, plant
tea or, if we're not, 110% sureabout the plants available some
people will just bring gardenthings or something from a
grocery store, and sometimesthere's snacks involved and
there's a camaraderie there,there's a chance at the end to
just be able to chat and, like Isaid, it doesn't have to be a
(53:50):
very serious practice.
You know, it's what theindividual makes of it, right?
You know, that is the mainthing and what I like to close
with at my tea.
And I don't know if it's okaywith you, but I was thinking I
could read a Mary Oliver poem,please.
Is that poem, please?
(54:10):
Is that okay, please?
So for those of you that knowor don't know Mary Oliver, she
writes a lot of poems aboutnature, so I highly recommend
her.
And this poem is when I Am Amongthe Trees, by Mary Oliver.
And this poem is when I AmAmong the Trees, by Mary Oliver.
(54:35):
When I am among the trees,especially the willows and the
honey locusts, equally the beech, the oaks and the pines, they
give off such hints of gladness,I would almost say that they
save me.
And daily I am so distant fromthe hope of myself in which I
(54:59):
have goodness and discernmentand never hurry through the
world, but walk slowly and bowoften.
Walk slowly and bow oftenAround me, the trees stir in
(55:20):
their leaves and call out stay awhile.
The light flows through theirbranches and they call again.
It's simple, they say, and youtoo have come into the world to
do this, to go easy, to befilled with light and to shine
(55:50):
the end, thank you.
Thank you for having me the end,thank you thank you for having
me now go out in nature.
Thank you, go hug a tree youguys.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
I think Kira's reading of the Mary Oliver poem
when I Am Among the Trees is agreat way to finish this episode
.
Thanks for being with us.
You guys Take care of eachother.
Imagine starting your day, like many of us do, with
the sound of your alarm clock.
You pull yourself out of bedafter a night that feels way too
short.
You quickly check your phone,already filled with emails and
notifications, and you haven'teven had your coffee yet.
And the commute to work isstressful.
Your day is stressful.
(00:22):
By the time you get home,you're feeling worn out, but
still buzzing with the day'sdemands.
You try to relax, but your mindis filled with thoughts of
unfinished tasks and thepressures of tomorrow.
The evening news doesn't help,adding to your sense of anxiety.
You find yourself scrollingthrough social media, feeling
(00:44):
disconnected and overwhelmed.
Now imagine a different way toend your day.
Instead of being consumed byscreens and stress, you take a
walk in a nearby forest or park.
The air is fresh, the sounds ofnature are soothing and you
begin to feel your worries meltaway.
(01:04):
This is the essence of forestbathing immersing yourself in
nature to reconnect with theworld around you and with
yourself.
It's a practice that helpsreduce stress, boost your mood
and provide a sense of calm andclarity.
By spending time in nature, youcan find a natural remedy to
(01:27):
the hectic pace of modern life,helping you feel more balanced
and at peace.
Forest bathing, or shinrin yokuin Japanese, is a practice that
involves immersing yourself ina forest environment to promote
(01:52):
mental and physical health.
It originated in Japan in the1980s as a response to the
increasing levels of stress andtechnology, and has become
common in Japanese medicine forpreventative health care and
healing, and it does not requirea bath or a rubber duck Force.
(02:12):
Bathing is more than just awalk in the woods.
It's an immersive experiencethat engages all your senses,
helping you reconnect withnature and yourself.
Studies have shown it canreduce stress, boost your mood
and even improve your immunesystem.
(02:34):
Thank you, hi everyone.
(03:11):
Welcome to another episode ofTwo Chicks and a Hoe, the
podcast that talks to amazingpeople doing great things in the
world.
I'm excited to introduce youall to Kira White, our guide
today to the world of forestbathing.
Kira is a trained and certifiedforest therapy guide with the
Association of Nature and ForestTherapy.
(03:33):
Kira brings a wealth ofknowledge and experience to her
practice.
With a background in psychologyand education, holding both a
degree in psychology and amaster's in education, Kira
combines her academic expertisewith her passion for nature.
Kira has discovered thatspending time in the forest
brings a profound sense ofhealing and peace, and she's
(03:57):
dedicated to sharing thisexperience with others,
demonstrating how these walkscan effectively manage stress
and alleviate symptoms ofdepression and anxiety.
Hello Kira, we need you.
We need you.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and sharing your
(04:17):
passion.
I can't wait to hear about thispractice.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Thank you.
Thank you, I'm happy.
Thank you for asking me.
I'm happy, awesome.
Yeah, I'm happy to be here andtalk about something I love.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Awesome, cool and we are in an amazing setting.
You guys, we're up in gosh.
I don't know what.
For our mountain ranges is thisthis, this year as well.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I believe.
So we call it the EastFoothills of San Jose.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Excellent, so we are in Northern California, in the
Bay Area, guys, and we are in abeautiful setting, in the
foothills, it's summertime, it'svery dry, but it sure is pretty
still.
It really is.
So I wanted to share astatistic with you before we get
started, because I think youguys have already figured out.
(05:07):
I really love the statisticsassociated with all this
information.
So, by 2050, and really that'snot really far away now, is it?
It's only like 25 years awayhere 66% of the world's
population is projected to livein cities and, according to a
study sponsored by theEnvironmental Protection Agency
(05:31):
you're going to this blows meaway the average American spends
93% of their time indoors.
So we're going to talk a littledifferently about that today.
So we're going to talk a littledifferently about that today.
Tell us, kira, tell us aboutforest bathing what it is and, I
guess, a little bit of itshistory on it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Sure, sure.
Well, forest bathing is achance to get quiet in the
forest.
It's a chance to meet up with.
A lot of times people do gettraining in the actual practice
of forest bathing.
I'm certified with theAssociation of Nature and Forest
(06:16):
Therapy, as you said, so it'sgoing out into the forest and
with a guide and doinginvitations.
So there's some standardsequence of invitations that are
being done.
Oh, what does that mean?
So basically, you can do foresttherapy with a group or you can
(06:37):
do forest therapy one-on-one.
I particularly like to do itwith more than one other person
and myself.
Just the group dynamics is kindof nice to be able to share.
So the invitations areopen-ended and we start with a
meditation, some kind of it,well, an introduction first, and
then we do a meditation ofsorts and get quiet.
(07:02):
So it's not a hike, it's not ajog, it's not a workout, but
there are forest therapy guidesthat do this in conjunction to
an active practice, like they'llgo.
There's one forest or there'snot one.
There's many forest therapyguides that will maybe do a hike
and incorporate the invitations.
(07:22):
So the invitation start withthe meditation introduction, the
group getting quiet, startingto awaken your senses to the
forest, okay, and then afterthat there's a series of
invitations that the forestdictates.
(07:43):
So, I'm not.
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm, I'm not a forest therapist, the forest is the guide.
Oh, okay, got it.
And I am also a guide.
So I'm a guide there.
So I'm not, I'm the forest, theforest is actually.
I'm so sorry, the forest is isyour is the therapist and I am
(08:05):
the guide.
Got it?
I think I said that differently.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
That's okay.
So you're basically sayingyou're the one that gets the
people there, but it's theforest that does the work.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So to speak.
Yeah, yeah, got it.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So there's, you set up the direction.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
so to speak Right, so the invitations are very
open-ended.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I'm not quite clear what an invitation is, because
it sounds like you.
Are you inviting me to go withyou?
That's not what you're saying,is it?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I am saying that in some ways grounded in um, in
nature, and slow down with themeditation, being able to awaken
, like the sense of uh see, youknow all the senses, looking at,
at, getting quiet, um,connecting and grounding to the
earth.
And then after that I'll give asuggested invitation for the
group.
Maybe the first one is, in thestandard sequence, is what's in
motion.
So what I would do is offer theinvitation to the group what's
(09:13):
in motion and then give you somesort of timeframe depending on
how long the walk is that day.
Typically, a walk is two and ahalf to three hours, but they
can be shorter and they can belonger.
It just depends on thetimeframe that people have in
the world or you have in yourschedule.
And so, with the invitationwhat's in motion, maybe it's 15
(09:35):
minutes and it's a chance to,I'll kind of give a boundary and
then the participant will walkaround and just that's.
The only thing that I suggestof them is to be looking at
what's in motion, to let go ofwhat's happened before they got
(09:55):
to the space, what's happened atit was going to happen.
To let go of the laundry, thegrocery list, the phone calls
that need to be made, maybe turnoff the phone in the pocket.
We don't usually get very manypeople on the phone out in
nature, thank goodness.
(10:16):
And then what I'll do is I'llsometimes use a shaker as a
reminder, so, as people are inthis space and kind of just
wandering it can be on a trailor it can be in an open area and
slowing their steps down andgetting more grounded and so
(10:40):
I'll use a shaker to remindpeople, because of course, our
minds are going to travel, right.
So I'll do a shaker just toremind people like, oh, maybe
your mind has traveled towhatever it's going to travel to
and try to bring it back to theinvitation.
What's in motion.
And so I'll use a shaker likethis.
(11:02):
And so I'll use a shaker likethis.
And then it's just a suggestion, very open-ended.
And then when we come back fromthe invitations, we do a council
share.
So we'll sit in a circle orstand in a circle and share our
experience, and my question foreveryone is what are you
(11:30):
noticing?
So that's the open-endedquestion and the counsel share
is a sharing where no one isresponding to you.
Sometimes we'll use a talkingpiece, a rock, or stick in the
circle.
Sometimes we'll use a talkingpiece, a rock or stick in the
circle and that person has theground.
They get to talk about whatthey're noticing.
(11:52):
But, honestly, silence is verypowerful and this is also kind
of a playful practice.
So we also encourage, if you'dlike to, if you want to sing or
dance when it's.
I've taken people out when it'sbeen 32 degrees and I've had
(12:12):
some people moving their bodyand dancing around.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
To stay warm.
To stay warm.
Yeah, wow, okay.
So I get that, and I like theidea too of coming back and
sharing, if you want, but theidea that no one else needs to
speak of to that, because Ithink we I think my experience
too is that we live in a culturethat somebody says something
(12:41):
and somebody has to comment onit or put their you know, their
their two cents in kind of athing which I think can be
restrictive to people sometimes,then, because they're always
feel like they're being judged.
So, yeah, I like that.
That's a great idea, you bringup a good point, that's a really
good point.
Yeah, I guess that's what cameup for me.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yes, that you it came up for me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yes, you know, speaking of your experience can
make you very vulnerable as well.
Yeah, I think that's part ofthe process, isn't it?
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Definitely part of the process and I think also,
yeah, being able to listen.
You know, like I've heardrecently to be.
You know, to have successfulrelationships is trying to do
80% listening and 20% talking.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I love that.
I do too.
I think that stands very true.
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Wow.
So it's very non, like I said,prescriptive and also
non-outcome based, so I'm notgoing out on a walk and looking
for a certain outcome from aperson.
Everyone's personal experiencesare different.
Some people are very verbal ontheir sharing, some people have
(13:55):
really profound experiences,some people are very quiet, some
people.
It can bring up all kinds ofdifferent feelings involved.
So it changes and, of course,depending on where you do forest
therapy, the environmentchanges, how you're feeling and
(14:16):
what you're going to be noticing.
If it's a very windy day, thewhat's in motion invitation is
going to change from a verystill day or if you're by a
water source.
Let's say which we encouragepeople to always put their feet
or hands in in a, you know, acreek or the side of a lake or
something like that okay, I okay, I get it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So it's.
Is it meditation?
It sounds different thanmeditation.
It is different than meditation.
Okay, yes, tell me that, thenit's an experience.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
There we go.
It's an experience.
I think it's a.
It's a.
Is it a walking meditation, soto speak?
It can be, it can be, yes soyou start with a suggested
meditation and then, after Igive that invitation invitation,
then I'll give anotherinvitation and it.
(15:09):
So it changes, and there'sthousands of invitations that
have been created by foresttherapy guides, but there's
probably hundreds of thousandsthat could be given, so maybe
the next invitation could bewould you like to, or just go
(15:30):
out and look at textures?
And so the next invitation wouldbe, maybe that you would go and
look at textures and, if you'dlike to, maybe perhaps bring
something back to share.
Try not to pick anything off oftrees or plants.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Right, right right.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And of course we give safety precautions wherever we
are.
In California you know we havepoison oak and snakes and most
of the guides are wildernessfirst aid trained.
That's a good thing.
Yeah, so we're out there.
I mean, there is wildlife.
We haven't seen anything reallybig and scary, but we've seen
(16:12):
all kinds of other deer and wildturkeys and, of course, a
myriad of birds and squirrelsand things.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You know, I just had a thought, because I spend a lot
of time in the forest and in, Iguess, the drier lands, what
have you?
I spent a lot of time hikingand I kept thinking well, this
is like hiking, this is, youknow, it's got to be.
You go into the forest and youget quiet.
But I'm seeing, at least for me, this it's not like hiking,
(16:45):
like you said, but even more sobecause when I go hiking, I have
a destination in mind and I'mreally focused in on getting
there and you know, and gettingback, whatever that is.
You know, I got my five milesin.
I you know I did whatever thatwas.
But I do notice, when I'mhiking and I stop, and when I
(17:09):
actually become very present andtune into a tree or a grove of
trees or some flowers, that kindof thing, my experience changes
.
That's what you're talkingabout, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think so.
I think it's different foreveryone and yeah, it is not a
height A.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
J a blue J just landed.
Oh, you came to say hi.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I know, and I just saw a thrasher behind us too.
So we're surrounded by birdshere, everyone.
They decided we're safe enoughenough and they've come to visit
, and that's one is actually avery good point in forest
(18:07):
therapy or forest bathing.
Is that one suggestion by theguides.
Every day, somewhere near yourhome, or, if you don't have that
kind of setting, if you canpossibly just even outside your
front door, because you'll besurprised if you sit with nature
for 20 minutes every day, andsometimes in the same spot, that
nature decides you're safe andall of a sudden, all the birds
that have flown away, ordifferent creatures that have
left because you walked out thefront door, return after they
(18:29):
realize that you're safe andsound, and so safe and sound.
And so that is one of thesuggestions of the actual
training, and so the Associationof Nature and Forest Therapy
has been training guides allaround the world Costa Rica,
(18:50):
australia, europe.
Tons of trainings are being donein all over Japan, all across
the United States.
So we are thousands strong now.
So there's many people outthere doing this in all kinds of
cities.
Okay, is there a high demandfor this?
(19:12):
It depends on the group.
Certain places, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And so I'm thinking from what I read the history of
this and like I think we kind ofmentioned too that this happens
everywhere, I mean across theglobe, in the forest people, the
things that you're talkingabout, maybe not necessarily
guided, so to speak, but peoplehave been doing this, going to
(19:38):
the forest for their therapy foryears or for millennia across
cultures, their therapy foryears or for millennia through
across cultures.
But in Japan, the they call itthe practice of Shinrin-yoku.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Am I saying that correctly.
Yes, perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Shinrin-yoku.
Shinrin-yoku, which is thepractice of forest bathing, kind
of like, in 1982, it becamemore of a I don't know an
accepted thing, a thing, aguided, a real thing, so to
speak, and they use that now asa form of therapy, right, kind
(20:13):
of as a form of healing medicine.
So what I'm reading too is that, like you said, there's guides
in Costa Rica and Australia.
They're kind of are thereparticular gosh for lack of a
better word are there particularhot spots across the globe that
call more to this?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
I do hear what you're saying.
I just think it's growing.
I think California definitelyhas a lot of guides.
There are other organizationsthat also train guides.
It's not just one, this justhappens to be the most well, I
(21:00):
don't know, I don't want to saycomprehensive or maybe
well-known group, but there areother organizations that are
training guides.
I know I've heard Asheville,north Carolina, that it's such a
popular practice that some ofmy guiding companions have.
It's competitive there toactually to be able to get
(21:22):
people out, because there's somany forest therapy guides in
that particular area.
I would say wherever nature is,where it's everywhere, because
you can do forest therapy reallyanywhere.
You could do it in a city park,you could do it with a plant.
(21:42):
One of my mentors and I think Ihave two for a presentation
We've done some indoor foresttherapy where we just bring some
plants and collected thingsfrom outdoors and one of my
mentors has been doing it innursing homes and it's really
(22:03):
brought about a lot of amazinghealing and just connection, a
lot of memories.
They'll put out a table ofnatural items and then they'll
get to come and choose somethingand certain trees and plants or
a rock will bring back a memoryfor them that they would love
(22:25):
to share.
For example, as we're walkingto the place, usually with
forest therapy, we meet in aparking lot area near a trail or
a natural setting it could be apark and as we're walking to
the location where I'd like tostart the walk, I always ask
everyone this question is therea tree in your life?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh, I like that.
I like that because I lovetrees.
I have trees in my life and Italk to them.
Oh my gosh, I'm tellingeverybody all my secrets here.
I talk to them and I give them.
There is an exchange of energyon a regular basis, you know,
(23:13):
with the birds, with the birdsand but the trees in particular
I have.
I'm seeing three trees in myown yard that I have a lot of
connection with.
That provide me an incredibleamount of energy and shade and
all of those things.
But there is I love that.
I never thought of that beforeand I actually never thought of
(23:33):
my own connection like thatbefore too.
Great, yeah, very interesting.
So, and that I was going to askyou that as well, but I think
you've already answered it.
I was going to ask can you dothis type of forest bathing, or
what else is it?
Nature therapy, how do you get?
What else was the word Foresttherapy?
(23:53):
Forest therapy?
Forest therapy Forest therapy,or forest bathing, okay, yes,
but the word forest itself isvery specific and I'm wondering
can you do this at the ocean?
Can you do this?
You know, in the desert Can youdo this type of therapy and not
in a forest situation, but itsounds like you can, because you
did it at a nursing home.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
You can do it anywhere, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
So really I'm a certified nature and forest
therapy guide.
Got it, so any nature Got it.
The beach is a beautiful placeto do this practice.
The desert has so many thingsto offer.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Right, right, just types, different types of
experience.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, there's so many different types.
Yes, yeah, there's so manydifferent places.
You know, living in California,I'm very lucky right now I get
to't be forest bathing or foresttherapy without hugging a tree,
and so I've suggested I justsuggested you do not have to
(25:04):
come out and hug a tree, youdon't have to be a tree hugger,
but I've had some people shareprofound feelings about that,
about how they felt hugging aparticular tree.
Yeah, I've had some reallyprofound, you know, thoughts,
even though it could be a joke.
(25:25):
But we do one of theinvitations and the suggestion
everything's suggestion,everything's, perhaps,
everything's open-ended,nothing's prescriptive.
So one of the suggestions thatwe have is to go sit with a
being.
So when I'm talking about abeing in forest bathing, we
(25:49):
believe that we are all natureand so we are human beings, and
then everything else out thereis a being.
And so there is an invitationthat we invite you to do a sit
spot with a being, any being.
It can be a rock, a tree, alittle bush, you know, whatever
(26:10):
you feel like to go sit with abeing, whatever you feel like to
go sit with a being.
And so when we as humanspossibly maybe you're standing
on the edge of something likethe Grand Canyon, looking over
and thinking, oh, look at howbeautiful that is way out there.
Well, you are that, we are that.
(26:34):
You are nature.
You are part of it, we are partof it.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I'm listening.
I love it.
I'm listening.
Tell me more about that.
Tell our listeners more aboutthat, please, so we are nature.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
it's not that we are separate.
We are connected.
Nature is us.
You are nature.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
There's no separation .
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We're a mammal, we are nature out there beyond us
is?
I mean, it can be the way thatyou're thinking, but can we
switch the dialogue and for youto realize the question what are
(27:25):
you noticing?
And that maybe not consideredreally the answer, but that
you're part of this, that youare nature, you're not separate.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So, kira, I want to talk about I guess I want to
back up a sec, yeah, because I'mquite fascinated actually that
the idea that I think people arerealizing more and more that
being so connected to the tech,technology world, whether it's
(27:59):
our phone or computers orwhatever that is, um is um,
sucks the life out of you.
That's, that's my wording, myinterpretation of it.
Sure, but um, and and the ideathat the whole, the, the
Japanese government, witnessedthis and saw what was happening
and created kind of a more of aformal title for the force
(28:20):
bathing, but the whole idea thatI mean, as I mentioned,
listeners, you know we're in theBay Area, the tech capital of
the world.
You know where it all kind ofstarted, but I can imagine that
the demand, or maybe even thedemand for it, is high here.
But I think there has to besome kind of realization first
(28:45):
before they recognize that theneed for this.
Am I correct?
Sure, tell me more about youknow how are people.
How are people getting this?
How are they finally going?
The light bulbs come on.
Oh my god, I, I need this.
I'm I'm not okay.
I need this and tell me aboutsome of the the benefits as well
(29:06):
and people can be okay and notokay.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yes, because people can be highly functional.
It's not it's not a practicethat a promise to solve anything
.
So you can be completely okayand come out and do forest
therapy and just, you know,would like to spend a few hours
having an experience in nature.
(29:31):
Yes, in nature.
I agree with you abouttechnology, that putting our
phones away is a great idea andthat that was one of the reasons
that the Japanese governmentdoes mandate a lot of this for
their workers.
They take busloads of people toactually forest bathing.
(29:52):
They're designating differentforests outside of Tokyo as
forest bathing centers and youwill show up and they take your
vital signs and then you do thewalk, including a tea.
We have a tea.
We do a forest tea when we goout and they do the walk and
(30:19):
then they do the vital signsafter to show how much heart
rate has come down and differentthings have come down from
doing this practice as a stressrelief.
Wow, yes, so I've had apartnership with a wellness
coach that brings some of herclients out and then to get the
(30:43):
word out is, you know, it's justword of mouth.
You know something like this isgreat Right right right and then
I also work with in here inCalifornia there's a farm it's
called Hidden Villa and it's afarm and wilderness area and a
trust.
It has a lot of educationalthings, so I work with them.
(31:06):
Nice and a nonprofit I knowthat we were talking about that.
This is not just Californiabased, but I work with an
environmental nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I'm their he one of their healing and nature guides,
nice, and then I were in thenonprofit is green foothillsorg
and then I just recently gotinto Stanford and took out their
wellness team.
So my goal, what I would loveto do with my own practice, my
own goal is I would like to getthis into the college setting
(31:42):
and because most collegecampuses have some sort of
park-like, forest-like settings,and so I would love for it to
be mainstream and to get taughtin the psychology programs and
it is being offered in somecampuses now that forest therapy
(32:04):
is actually on the campus andthat students can just sign up
for it and do some foresttherapy on.
You know, let's say maybe I haveno idea their timeframe, but
maybe Tuesdays, every Tuesday at11am, there's forest therapy on
.
You know, let's say maybe Ihave no idea their timeframe,
but maybe Tuesdays, everyTuesday at 11am, there's forest
therapy and it's connected tothe wellness center.
Most campuses, almost allcampuses, now have wellness type
(32:27):
centers and that students cango there and know that they
could be involved in a foresttherapy walk.
So that's a big goal of mineright now is to get it there.
So the actual APA we had a hugewin this year.
The APA what's an APA?
(32:47):
The APA the AmericanPsychiatric Association who puts
out the DSM.
I think we're on five now.
What's a DSM?
So that is that's like all thediagnosis for the psych, for
psych in psychology.
So that's like their bookletlike like their huge not booklet
, huge book that has all thedifferent diagnosis and approved
(33:10):
things.
Okay so, and don't quote me onall of that, if you're a
psychology person I may besaying this wrong, but anyway,
so I, but I do know that this isjust great information.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
So I do know this, that we have been spores.
Therapy has been approved as amodality for healing.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Really I love that.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Really so we have.
I've had amazing functionalmedicine.
Doctors prescribe this andpeople call me and say, my
doctor, functional medicine, awalk with you and be part of
this program.
So it is going to be I thinkI'm hoping it's going to be more
(34:06):
and more, more mainstream.
I love it and a useful thingfor everybody.
I love it.
It's for everyone, for foreverybody.
I love it, it's for everyone,it's for everyone.
And the thing about that, thefact is, is that I've had
children come out and I've hadall the way up into people into
their nineties.
(34:26):
So it's not age, it's not likepigeonholed by age, right right,
and even saying that, too, it'snot super strenuous.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
No, again, we're not taking a hike up the mountain,
exactly.
Got it Okay, I love it.
That's awesome.
I'm so glad it's getting thattype of recognition, then, as
being a type of therapy.
Me too, Wow, Good.
So how often I mean?
(34:55):
You already mentioned so one ofmy questions was how much time
to bathe.
How much time do you bathe?
But you kind of said that twohours I mean.
So what is the standard timeand how often should one do this
?
I guess it depends on whatyou're looking to get out of it.
Help me out with that, Kira.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Did you want to know the standard time of a walk, or
the standard time of how manytimes, or both, both, both, okay
, yeah, both.
I want to know everythingBefore I answer your question.
What I forgot to do is that atthe beginning is that we always
do a land acknowledgement withour walks, and so I would like
(35:34):
to acknowledge the land aroundus, the tribal land of our
ancestors, the Miwok and theOhlone tribes that we're sitting
on right now.
So we will always do anacknowledgement and we also are
very caring to the land that wewalk on Nice and make sure that
(35:57):
we leave no trace.
Of course, nice right, and asfar as how long?
I mean, I feel I might bebiased here, but I feel like
everyone needs forest therapyand I've had people come out
multiples, and I've had peoplecome out multiples.
I've had people come out weekly.
(36:17):
In our training that we do withAssociation of Nature and
Forest Therapy, we go and do animmersion, and so we did four
days in a row of forest therapy.
You can choose your area of theworld you want to do your
training in and we do four daysof force therapy and I thought
(36:38):
that before I went like that'sgoing to be a lot, and when I
left it wasn't enough.
So I think it's kind of up toyou.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
There's not a really prescription Okay.
Yeah.
So a lot of the people thatcome to you, or let me ask this
so the people that come to youprescribed, so to speak, okay
from you, called it a specifictype of doctor Functional
medicine, functional medicine,okay, I've never heard of that
Functional medicine Moreholistic approach to medicine.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
They still use many of the same things, but it's a
more holistic approach.
A combination of all differenttypes of practices and they
still will do blood work anddifferent things, but it's much
more holistic.
I like it.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Okay, so a lot of the people that come to you via the
functional medicine route.
Is there a pattern that you'reseeing?
Is it anxiety?
What is it?
I mean, if you can share thatwith us.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I think it might be stress and anxiety and some
depression sometimes.
I mean, I've had people comeout.
I had one participant that cameout and realized that she
hadn't been in nature in monthsbecause she lived in a home I
(38:05):
think a townhome that has agarage and she would open her
garage door, put her car in thegarage and go into the house and
she never was in any kind ofnature for months and months,
and months.
Yeah, so there are people thatdo you know that that that will
(38:28):
do that Right?
So, um well, according to thatstatistic.
yeah, and I can't say that'sgoing to cause a person stress.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Right, right Because.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I'm not, you know, I'm not a doctor Right, and
everyone's different.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
But I love the fact that it is being prescribed and
I love that the wellness centersaround the United States, yes,
and I'm not sure about the worldI hope the world, but the
United States are suggesting itas a modality for students and
people to feel better.
I mean, for example, Harvardhas I think they still have a
(39:03):
thing called Walk with Trees andI think it's professor based
campus that is doing somethinglike that, that you can meet at
a certain time and you walk withwalk around the campus in the
(39:24):
trees.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I'm not I'm not sure who it's for this is sort of
just something I heard.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
If somebody has more information, maybe we can get
that from them, but I love theidea, the idea of something like
that Keep, keep it going.
And if they're going to offeryou know, if they're going to
say that forest therapy is ahealing modality, then I really
feel, like in the colleges, likewe need to get some coursework
for these students that aretaking psychology Like an
(39:45):
elective needs to be foresttherapy.
So when they go into practicethey'll know what it is.
And I've also seen some, orheard about some, psychologists
that are taking out, ortherapists are taking out their
patients and doing their therapyoutdoors now so still doing the
talk.
They're right in their talk,therapy right, but doing it
(40:08):
outside so getting that addedbenefit?
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, wow, wow.
I want to share an experiencethat I had that I don't think
it's.
I'll just tell you, because I'mtrying to categorize stuff and
I'm recognizing that's not howthis really works, because, you
(40:31):
know, is it the forest, theocean, the desert?
This it's nature, it's nature,it's nature, it's nature.
So a couple of years ago I wasup in Washington state and I
went with some friends to theOlympia forest and we went in
specifically looking for theycall it the telephone in the
(40:52):
wind.
I'm not sure if you've everheard of that, but I was like
sure I'm game, they'd heardabout it.
So you have to.
I wouldn't say it was a hike,but we walked in and it was a
beautiful forest, you know, likea fern forest.
It was darker and it was, youknow, much more shady and it had
a coolness to it.
So it was different than manyof the California forests that
(41:15):
I've been in and it was veryhumid and moist.
So it was a great walk-in andthere was three of us and all of
a sudden, in the opening therewas a phone there, an old rotary
phone, and the idea is to andit was so natural, kira, the
(41:39):
three of us long-time friends.
One walked towards the phoneand the other two disappeared
into the forest and gave thatperson that time, and the idea
is to have those conversationsthat you can no longer have.
And the idea is to have thoseconversations that you can no
longer have, whether it's oh, itwas a very profound experience
(42:00):
for me Whether it's somebodythat you've lost or an
unfinished conversation.
It was a great experience to beable to pick up the phone.
I even knew the phone number.
I dialed and I had thatconversation.
I hung up, I disappeared intothe forest and my friend you
(42:20):
know, my next friend got on thephone.
It was a, like I said, veryprofound, a great experience.
And then we walked out of theforest.
It was put there.
A gentleman put that there sothat he could talk to his
daughter that had passed, a veryyoung girl, and I found that to
(42:42):
be amazing therapy.
And it wasn't just the idea ofthe telephone, it was the idea
of it being out in a very remoteplace and in the forest,
amongst the trees, in thatenergy and all of the greenness
(43:03):
that was there.
It was so, you know, the air.
Everything about it wasdifferent, so different than if
I had tried something like that,you know, in the neighborhood
or whatever.
To me that was my type ofnature therapy.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yes, yeah, beautiful.
Yes, I love that.
Yeah, I love that and I mean,and I think that's amazing and I
could see how that would justbe a wonderful experience or
just like even just a profoundexperience.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
But the difference with forest therapy is there's
no prescription.
So if we did come upon a phone,somebody could use it, however,
they wanted to, and that wasthe same.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
That was that concept .
Yeah, because afterwards it wasone of those things as such
close friends, it's like, okay,who'd you call you know?
Yeah, it was that concept.
Yeah, because afterwards it wasone of those things as such
close friends, it's like, ok,who'd you call you know?
It was like, who'd you call?
Yeah, you know, and it was sodifferent for us.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, you know, and it was so cool.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
I love that.
It was so cool.
Those unfinished conversations.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or I gotta say one more thingto you.
You know that kind of a thing.
It was good, yeah, it was good,sure, so, yeah, so I understand
I, the power of, of nature andthe power of being in the, in
the forest, yeah, very powerful,very powerful.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yes, it is.
Yeah, it can bring up a lot ofthings.
Some people it can bring upjust a sense of sometimes heart
opening or grief.
Sometimes for people yes,absolutely Feeling grief will
kind of notice the existence ofdecay that is happening around
(44:53):
them, because when you're in theforest there'll be like a
fallen down tree that'sdecomposing, but then there'll
be like a beautiful fern or abeautiful tree right next to it
or a beautiful moss laden rock,and they all coexist together
and that's sometimes a bigrealization for a lot of people.
(45:16):
I mean, honestly, when I startedmy practice, I was finding
nature to be really healing andI was living in Southern
California and I was spending alot of time in traffic and a lot
of cement and it was thelocation I was living in was
(45:36):
very difficult to get to natureeasily.
I got bits and pieces here andthere, but not like real, like
trail, forest type things.
It was a challenge and I wascoming up here to visit and
going on a lot of trails up hereand honestly, um, I kept kind
(45:57):
of hearing the words.
I knew there was a japanesepractice and I was like what,
like you?
Like you were asking me what isthe name of the practice, um, I
kind of kept hearing it when Iwould go on these hikes and I
started to go on solo hikes andI started just to feel this
(46:17):
large amount of healing.
So then I went home and did alot of research and found out
there is this practice called itIs Real, because I wasn't sure
is this real, am I reallyfeeling this?
And then I found out there issuch real like am I really
feeling this?
And then I found out there issuch a thing called shinrin yoku
.
And then I had my mom, whopassed away, and, um, I started
(46:41):
going into the forest, um, andhiking to get through that grief
and I, I, for some reason, whenI was getting through the grief
, I noticed the decay in theforest, a lot Like, oh, there's
this old stump there, you know,there's this old tree, there's
this old thing.
And then I went and got mycertification and as I was doing
(47:07):
forest therapy with otherpeople and taking people out, I
realized I had stopped seeingthe decay as much.
It was just during that kind ofduring that grief period, even
though I know grief is like awave and comes and goes During
that time, but then so that'show what got me into forest
(47:33):
therapy was after researchingShinrin-yoku, and after
experiencing the healing that Iwas experiencing after I was in
nature, I decided I'd like togive it to others if I could.
So, I did my training and havebeen doing it ever since.
(47:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
So it was very like evolutionary for me.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
you know it was, and this is years.
This is in a span of, you know,three, four years that all of
this occurred.
But and then you know, like Isaid, everyone could use it.
We have one of our mentors.
One of the mentors, big mentorand it's ANFT is the acronym is
(48:20):
Ben Page, who did a lot ofwriting for the program, and
then the founder is AmosClifford, who founded the
program in Santa Rosa,california.
Okay, but Ben lives in LosAngeles and we were asking him
well, why are you living?
in LA if you're a forest therapyguy.
(48:41):
Like why wouldn't you be, youknow, in I don't know, you know
in the forest somewhere?
You know, living in Yosemite orliving in, you know, Wyoming or
something, and he said thereare millions of people in Los
Angeles and they all need foresttherapy.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh, he goes to where it was called.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So a lot of forest therapy guides will have
partnerships with arboretums andnature areas, especially in the
big cities, right?
So if you go to like a website,like in Santa Barbara or even
in Chicago, the differentarboretums, botanical centers,
you can go to their website andyou'll probably find something
(49:29):
about healing in nature orforest therapy.
Maybe not, but there's a lot ofguides that work out of that
all the way into, I know, likethe Boston One of my trainers is
from like the Boston area,massachusetts area, and so a lot
of people are working withdifferent universities.
(49:52):
I know Yale has a big program,a lot of my guides.
There's a guide there thatworks with them.
So if you are looking forguides, of course you can go on
a website and or Google it, butyou may want to try a nature
type botanical center and youmight find a program there
(50:14):
Excellent, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
So I wanted to ask you that too, so our listeners
can.
If you're interested inparticipating in forest therapy,
we'll have a couple of websiteson the Two Chicks and a Hoe
website that you can check out,the two chicks in a hoe website
that you can check out.
But I like that, that idea thatgoing through botanical centers
(50:36):
, botanical gardens, even someuniversities, to find those
people, to find that type offorest therapy.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Well, if you're, living in a big city, it doesn't
matter Exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Exactly Okay, because usually right, you don't have
to live, it doesn't matter.
Exactly.
Exactly Okay, because usuallyRight, you don't have to live in
the deep forest somewhere.
Exactly, I know we'd like to,but yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Right, Because most cities have.
You know, New York City hasCentral Park.
I'm not sure if there'ssomething going on at Central.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Park Right right.
Speaker 2 (51:03):
But you know, every city has some sort of green
space and Some sort of greenspace.
And usually the green spacemaybe has a nature center
connected to it.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
And you're saying that's enough.
That's all I mean.
Again, it doesn't have to bethe big, grandiose forest you
know, with nobody in sight.
It can be a little patch ofland.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, Typically a forest bathing walk is not more
than a couple miles total.
Okay, Maybe you know, and thatcould even be far, and you know
that could even be a longdistance.
It depends on how much walkingthe participant wants to do and
what kind of terrain you're on.
You know, because some forestbathing walks can be all
(51:47):
trail-led.
Forest bathing walks can be alltrail led and some of them can
be kind of an open or more openspace where people can wander
from one point, Got it.
But there's also Forest BathingFinder dot com or dot org.
It would be another place.
(52:08):
And then the Association ofNature and Forest Therapy has
guides listed on their website.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Okay, alright, you guys, I'll put those up.
I'm writing them down before Iforget, so I'll put those up on
the website.
So if you're interested infinding somebody to help you or
find the right place, this willhelp.
Awesome, yes, thank you, you'revery welcome.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Anything else you'd like?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
to add for the listeners.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
We're waiting for something.
Let's see what would I like toadd.
Well, I just appreciate youhaving me and I hope that
whoever's listening can get outthere with someone.
And it is different going witha guide.
Everyone has told me that,because a lot of people say, oh,
I go in nature.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Well, that's what I was going to say too.
I hike all the time, but I'mthinking the guide thing might
be something different.
I need to try this.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yes, yeah, it's because it's, you know, a lot of
slowing down.
You know a lot of slowing down.
We wrap things up with what wecall forest tea or a tea at the
(53:25):
end where we provide some sortof forage, either forage, plant
tea or, if we're not, 110% sureabout the plants available some
people will just bring gardenthings or something from a
grocery store, and sometimesthere's snacks involved and
there's a camaraderie there,there's a chance at the end to
just be able to chat and, like Isaid, it doesn't have to be a
(53:50):
very serious practice.
You know, it's what theindividual makes of it, right?
You know, that is the mainthing and what I like to close
with at my tea.
And I don't know if it's okaywith you, but I was thinking I
could read a Mary Oliver poem,please.
Is that poem, please?
(54:10):
Is that okay, please?
So for those of you that knowor don't know Mary Oliver, she
writes a lot of poems aboutnature, so I highly recommend
her.
And this poem is when I Am Amongthe Trees, by Mary Oliver.
And this poem is when I AmAmong the Trees, by Mary Oliver.
(54:35):
When I am among the trees,especially the willows and the
honey locusts, equally the beech, the oaks and the pines, they
give off such hints of gladness,I would almost say that they
save me.
And daily I am so distant fromthe hope of myself in which I
(54:59):
have goodness and discernmentand never hurry through the
world, but walk slowly and bowoften.
Walk slowly and bow oftenAround me, the trees stir in
(55:20):
their leaves and call out stay awhile.
The light flows through theirbranches and they call again.
It's simple, they say, and youtoo have come into the world to
do this, to go easy, to befilled with light and to shine
(55:50):
the end, thank you.
Thank you for having me the end,thank you thank you for having
me now go out in nature.
Thank you, go hug a tree youguys.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
I think Kira's reading of the Mary Oliver poem
when I Am Among the Trees is agreat way to finish this episode
.
Thanks for being with us.
You guys Take care of eachother.
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