February 4, 2024 • 51 mins
When Alex Mondragon, known under the spotlight as Belladonna, stepped into the world of drag, a bold tapestry of self-expression unfurled before them. Their journey, marked by the trials of growing up non-heteronormative and the quest for acceptance, is the beating heart of our latest episode. Through a candid conversation, Alex shares how drag became more than just an art form—it was the lifeline that anchored them in a community that celebrates identity and challenges societal norms, weaving a narrative that reaches beyond personal transformation to touch on broader cultural shifts.
Each of us has a story etched in the struggles and triumphs of finding who we are, but for those in the LGBTQ+ community, these tales often come with the weight of societal pressures and the search for safe havens. Our episode delves into the impactful role media representation and drag culture play in shaping queer identities, and the stark contrast between mainstream acceptance and the censure faced by LGBTQ+ displays of affection. Alex's reflections provide a raw look into the intricate dance of reconciling personal identity with the expectations of family and society, and how the embrace of drag culture can not only foster self-acceptance but also serve as a vibrant act of rebellion and celebration.
Beneath the glitter and glamor of drag lies a foundation of mentorship, resilience, and hope—a community that extends its hand to those grappling with depression and seeking solace. We uncover the invaluable connections formed through drag, the mentorship from drag moms, and the inclusive nature of the art that transcends not only gender but also the boundaries of the LGBTQ+ community. This episode is a mosaic of stories; from Alex's life-changing encounter with a drag queen to the competitive yet united spirit of drag performers, we celebrate the transformative power of drag to create a beacon of love, acceptance, and solidarity for all who find themselves within its radiant embrace.
The Trevor Project
LGBT National Help Center
Interview with : Alex Mondragon aka Belladonna
Things that make you say "Wow"!
For more episodes and additional information visit the Two Chicks and a Hoe website and our Facebook page.
Big thanks to our Producer, Casey Kennedy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Drag is an art form.
Usually it's a form ofentertainment where artists will
typically have a lot of makeup.
It's a lot of exaggeration ofgender.
You'll see a lot of differentkinds of drag artists more
feminine presenting, moremasculine, presenting with a lot
(00:20):
of exaggerated features that wesculpt onto our bodies with
makeup.
It's a lot of preciseness.
Sometimes it can be a littlemessy, but it's usually very
colorful and very bright andlots of different kinds of
styles out there.
But that's typically what dragis and my definition of it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's with the deepest respect that I asked my friend
Alex to join me in aconversation today, a
conversation that started oneday when we were working amongst
the plants at a nursery.
When Alex declared to me dragsaved my life and can change the
world, I was totally intriguedand it started a conversation
(01:04):
that was too important not toshare with the world.
Alex shared a very personalstory.
(01:30):
Sometimes our own individualstories, when shared, can change
the world.
I actually think that big,dynamic world and cultural
shifts are started by thosesmall, brilliant stories like
the one you're going to heartoday.
Hey, listeners, it's Vanessafrom Two Chicks in a Hole and I
(01:52):
wanna tell you a little story.
So a few months ago I wasworking at a nursery with my
guest that you're gonna behearing from in a second and we
were talking about the podcastand we were talking about ideas
and potential guests and helooked at me and he said I could
(02:13):
be a guest and I thought I waskinda like, okay, how?
And he told me he said we coulddo an episode on how drag saved
my life.
And I was thinking, huh, youknow, honestly, I wasn't putting
(02:35):
the pieces together, I wasn'tconnecting the dots and the more
we talked, the more I realizedyeah, we need to talk.
We need to talk.
So I'd like to introduce you toAlex Mondragon, also known as
Bellad onna, and Alex is afriend and a drag artist here in
(02:58):
the Bay Area.
Welcome to the show, alex.
Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So you know we're gonna explore the topic of how
how drag saved your life.
Yeah, totally Excellent.
So, like I said before to youguys, I had no idea how we were
gonna even talk about this, butevery time Alex and I start a
conversation, one, I'm blownaway.
Two, I learned so much and Irecognize more and more how drag
(03:33):
changed his life and more aboutthe community and more about
this.
So let's talk, let's talk, tellme okay, let's go to the basics
here, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So, when it comes to drag, drag is an art form.
Usually it's a form ofentertainment where artists will
typically have a lot of makeup.
It's a lot of exaggeration ofgender.
You'll see a lot of differentkinds of drag artists more
feminine presenting, moremasculine, presenting with a lot
(04:09):
of exaggerated features that wesculpt onto our bodies with
makeup.
It's a lot of preciseness.
Sometimes it can be a littlemessy, but it's usually very
colorful and very bright andlots of different kinds of
styles out there.
But that's typically what dragis and my definition of it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, and listeners too.
Alex and I talked a lot aboutthis as well.
This is a conversation betweenthe two of us and it's Alex's
story.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, it's about me Like I'm a queer person and I
can only really speak for myselfand my experiences.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
As all of us.
That's all we all can do.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, but I feel that a lot that I've been through
and a lot that I've learned canbe a lot of people's stories as
well, and a lot of people canrelate to it and learn something
and maybe have experienced itthemselves as well.
And that's what I'm hoping totalk about more of, especially
(05:17):
with going on with drag latelyand what's been going on with
the queer community here in theStates.
So I'm happy to talk about thatanytime.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Excellent, I love it.
So tell me I guess we'll goback to a little bit, to even
the beginning of in terms ofyour life.
In conversations that you and Ihave had, can you describe to
me a little bit about kind ofgrowing up and the idea of who
(05:48):
or who that didn't make you who?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I am today, yes, well , I mean.
So I've always kind of like,felt like a different kid, like
I'd always.
You know, we compare ourselvesto everyone else.
We want to, you know, fit inand be the same in certain ways.
And you know, we all think thatthere's like some kind of track
(06:14):
of life that we have to stickto.
We're all on the same road andwe're all going to same places
and that's typically like thenarrative to society.
And I've never really fit thatmold, and even as a child, like
because kids are a lot smarterthan you think they are, you
know they're a sponge ofinformation and they pick up on
things and they comparethemselves to others and me
(06:40):
doing that growing up, just likeany other kid, you feel
different when you know thatyou're not the same.
Of course, like I remember, youknow, having crushes on other
boys and whatnot, and but thenI'd have girlfriends because I'm
like, well, everyone else has agirlfriend.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I'm supposed to have one too.
I'm supposed to have one too.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So it was a lot of things like that and he, well,
you told me at one point too.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
you told me that you were discouraged, yeah, yeah,
from, for example, from when twowomen might walk by holding
hands.
You were told don't look atthem.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, like, oh, like, and that has to do a lot with,
like, my mom, my mom lots ofthings there and I'm happy to
talk about it.
I do want to say that, like me,my mom, like, we love each
other very deeply.
We have our own specialrelationship and we've grown a
lot as mother and son, but itwasn't easy.
(07:41):
Because of that, a lot ofthings happen.
She said a lot of hurtfulthings, A lot of.
She was very she's a veryopinionated woman and she'll she
wouldn't be afraid to tellanyone anything that she felt.
You know, and oftentimes, youknow, I'd see like there'd be
someone on the street likeholding hands, or you know
(08:03):
couples, same gendered couplesand or something gay was
happening on a TV and she'dcover my eyes and she's like
Alex, don't look at that.
And it was very much somethingthat she instilled in me.
It's, you know, as parentsoften do.
You know, you try to protectyour child from things that you
(08:24):
think aren't okay, Right right,you know, and that happens in
every family, Right?
So yeah, it was often thingslike that where I would see
something.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, so was so.
So seeing that and then beingtold that that wasn't okay.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That wasn't okay.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Was that kind of confusing?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, I mean it was like.
You know I see like otherpeople do that all the time,
like man and woman, you knowkiss on TV, hold hands, you know
, talk about deep relationship,things that couples talk about,
and married couples, and it wasstrange to me that I was told
(09:15):
you know, don't be like thatever.
This is bad, even though I dosee it outside often.
You know there's a lot ofexamples in media often, or
queer coded characters and TVshows and whatnot, and but then
you must have been also gettingthe message.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Then that don't be you.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Exactly, you know, because I felt like a connection
to these people.
As a kid, I've always felt that, that connection, and I can see
, even if I didn't really knowthe words for it.
I felt something there that Iwasn't the same as others and
that that what I, what I wasfeeling, wasn't okay.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Because that's what you were being told Exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's, that's what I've been being taught.
I mean, that was like every,every queer children's being
taught pretty much.
You know, don't look, don'tlook at that, don't be that,
don't.
A lot of don'ts.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Okay, okay.
So then, how did the drag comeinto play?
What was your first experiencewith drag?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You know, actually it was my sister when forgot what
year it was, but it was a fourthseason of drag race and my
sister at the time she's olderthan me by two years.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And wait, wait, wait, drag race is RuPaul's.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I just double check in here, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It's been airing since 2009.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And I was born in 2000.
So you know, it's easy to counthow old I am.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know, oh, it's 2023.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So I'm 23 this year.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
We have it easy.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But, yeah, my sister was like the one who was
watching drag race for somereason, and I remember watching
it too and you know there's alot of iconic moments that it
was lucky enough to be able toexperience it when Aaron that is
now very popular, but that waslike my first exposure to drag.
(11:22):
It was season four, it was.
Who was it?
It was Fifi O'Hara, it wasWillem, it was Milan, it was all
the cast of season four and Ijust saw like these, like these
giant women, that's what it feltlike.
It was like, like who are thesepeople?
You know, like, why are they solike big and beautiful and
(11:45):
glamorous?
You know why can't?
You know why can't I be likethat too?
You know it was, and it waslike I want to do that.
That looks like fun orsomething like that.
It was some kind of connectionagain, because when you, when
you again, when you know thatyou're not, you're a different
kind of kid and you seesomething that you just you have
(12:07):
that attraction to you, youkind of go, you, you study it a
little, you have that a littlebit of a focus on it.
And I remember, like, even as Iwas watching Drag Race and I
only remember little bits andpieces because oftentimes I
don't want my mom to come homeor come in the room to see me
(12:30):
watching this, you know what Imean.
Yes, and so I, even though I was, I was, it was in front of me
on a TV with my sister.
If my mom came in I would justwalk away, you know, go to the
other room, go in the kitchen orsomething, and I didn't get to
watch like my sister did.
And my sister she's, you know,she's a, she's a cis girl, you
(12:52):
know, like what, what, what,what, what, what.
How does that kind of affecther when it's a bunch of mostly
men dressing up like that?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You know that was my mom's concern, like I don't want
my child being exposed to theseweird like perverted men doing
God knows what on a TV show.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Okay, and it was always like that, even like you
know, and it wasn't even justdrag race.
Growing up as a kid, like Iremember like watching the wings
club in secret I love that show, it's a show about like fairies
and stuff, or like Tara Duncan,it was like all bunch of like
4W kids, whatever that stationwas and I remember waking up so
(13:35):
early in the morning, beforeanyone else got up, and secretly
watching all these like showswith these hyper feminine like
girls and you know, with likeskirts and and glitter and
colored hair and with thisfemale energy.
And I just second someone wokeup, I changed the channel and
(13:59):
put on Pokemon all the time, allthe time, because you were
embarrassed and stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, Well, I'd also get in trouble, oh it wasn't
just like embarrassment.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Like you know, I wouldn't say I was like
typically, like necessarilyembarrassed, but I was like I
felt like I was doing somethingbad.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Oh, he felt you were doing something wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, exactly Like I shouldn't be doing.
This is what I felt likewatching those shows.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And so tell me then, so I understand that you felt
that you were doing somethingwrong watching.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Drag.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Race.
Yeah, all right.
So then tell me how did thatshift?
What was the big shift?
What was your first experiencemeeting a drag artist?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
This is a great story actually.
Well, it was when I was in highschool.
I kind of like, when you knowyou move from school to school
and you get older, especially inmiddle school, I was like, okay
, I'm like by or something.
I am not, I don't like girlslike that right now.
And you know, in middle schoolI came out as by friends and
(15:19):
friends only.
And then on eighth grade I cameout as gay and in high school I
was completely gay and it gothard.
At school my friends wereaccepting, but then I noticed
that other people startedtreating me differently because
I was so open.
You know, if I can't be open atschool, I'm going to make
(15:41):
everyone else like be okay withme because I already get it, you
know, bad at home.
So that was kind of like mymentality about it, especially
after I came out.
I didn't want anything to holdme back.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So you wanted to be you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I wanted to be me, even if it was hard, but
eventually it got it got.
It got difficult around people.
You know, some people didn'twant to be my friend or
oftentimes, oftentimes, I feltlike I make people uncomfortable
being myself.
You know, sometimes I wearmakeup.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
This is in high school?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, it is in high school.
I would often cross-dress to goto school because I don't know
why not, you know?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
like.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I wear like my mom's boots or something and a coat
and go do my thing.
And it was in high school whenI started getting involved with
the U space and downtown to helpme keep us in U space, which to
me was like it's anorganization where you know it's
a safe place for queer childrento go and you know have
(16:50):
supervision.
They offered therapy there forqueer kids as well.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know it's a great resource and I remember getting
involved with we had thesepasses to.
It was some kind of likefestival or Something, but there
was a drag queen is the point Iforgot what it was.
But there was a drag queen andthis is the first interaction I
ever had with a drag queen andwe got these passes, we went
(17:17):
inside and we were supposed tolike dance around her while she
performed, or something likethat, and Her name was 100% all
beef patty Okay, okay, that washer name and she was just giant
Goddess of a woman and she hadlike this fringe, like up and
(17:41):
down her body that was green andpink and just crazy.
She looked up like a freakingclown or something I don't know,
but she was huge with theseAlready, like maybe six foot
tall and like six inch heels.
Oh yeah, and like, oh, she wasfabulous and and that was my
first Interaction with a dragqueen we I think there's a video
(18:03):
of it somewhere, but I've neverI've never seen it.
I've never seen that videobecause I was just freaking,
just dancing Awkwardly.
I don't.
I have like two left feet.
I don't want to see that, butit's summer.
But yeah, that was my firstinteraction and it was another.
Like it reminded me of watchingdrag race again as a kid, where
(18:25):
it was like I want to be thisspectacular being because it
drag is like, it's like exceedsgender.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know it's, tell me more it's more than man and
woman.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
It's just an exaggeration of Whatever and you
be, you know it's anexaggeration of being a being,
exactly yes you know and andit's that energy coming out, but
in full color exactly and likethat, and it was as a, as a, as
(19:03):
a kid who's never felt like theyfit in.
That was Something at that time,in that moment, I'm like I want
to do this, I feel like I needthis, you know I why, because
this person was in front of mejust being whatever they wanted
(19:26):
to be and you know, the worldwasn't giving me what I needed
as a, as a kid, and and I sawthis person in front of me, just
who cares.
You know, I'm gonna be thisgiant, colorful Person and I'm
gonna perform and I'm gonna showeveryone that this is who I am
(19:51):
and I someone who didn't, whodoesn't fit in that was very,
very Attractive to me.
Nice something, something thatI'm not fitting in.
I need a community, I need aspace where I can fit in.
Yeah, it was, it was.
(20:15):
It was honestly life-changing,meaning freaking, and I kept
100%.
I'll be fatty, like that's agreat drag name, you know, and
it sticks with you and Iremember her, like not often,
but someone asked me like ohyeah, patty, I've never seen her
again.
Oh and she really like changedmy life and it to.
She kind of pushed me in adifferent direction a little and
(20:40):
she and we didn't even liketalk.
I don't even know what wetalked about.
I just remember, like it's liketattooed in my brain, this
image of her and Just I feellike it really changed
everything for me.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And so I started like .
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Getting more attracted to drag.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Alex and I were.
I wanted to mention this.
Alex and I were talking about ashow that brought up the idea
of Migration and the idea ofmigration.
So you're talking about the BayArea.
So you know, you think, oh, theBay Area, it's the you know.
But you're right, san Franciscois like a hub.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
It what yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
definitely as New York City and you know that kind
of a thing.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
So people migrated to those areas Dallas where they
felt more accepted.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, yeah, and they felt more they could have
community.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yes, got it, you know , and that's why, like back then
, even, like you know, san Josehas been voted very, very safe
for queer people.
For a long time I Always feltlike it was a lot of the younger
folk, a lot of queer folk here.
I want to order queer folk.
They kind of keep to themselvesoften the older ones.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, okay.
I've noticed that you know likethey have their friends and
some kind of kind of still someresidual from Exactly in the day
, so exactly like it's somethingthey're used to.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's something like oh I should just mind my own
business and be in my littleCircle and don't spread out that
much.
And it's still something thatI've noticed a lot often.
You know, you don't really seea lot of them Large movements of
, or large crowds of, queer,older queer often.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's a lot of it's a lot of younger people like you
got a Santa Cruz.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh, I just went to Rocky Horror over in Santa Cruz.
It was so much fun.
All of people, my other people,my age queers, all of them.
That auditorium just shockedfull of just these beautiful
people that, and Maybe like ahandful of of of, like parents
or something, you know, it'svery, it's very interesting the
(22:48):
way that, like from city to city, like the structure is
different and I think that hasthat has a lot to do with you
things that people haveexperienced in the past because,
you know, just honey a fewyears ago was a very different,
you know right Right you knowpeople couldn't be out, people
had to hide themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, we talked about that too.
We talked about, you know, andwe're not gonna get too deep,
because yeah we're not gonna gothat direction.
Yeah we talked, you and I did alittle bit about how Now um,
drag artists or drag has, isbecoming more on the forefront,
so to speak.
People are talking about itmore Maybe it's because of the
(23:29):
shows on TV, that kind of athing but also to the
transgender, all of that iscoming more forward into
people's conversations.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, which is?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
good, but then of course I hope it's not happening
because of the negativityassociated with the politics you
know in Tennessee and what haveyou.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Well, it is that's, that's, that's yeah, and that's
a sad part and it's.
And it's interesting how peoplereally treat it, how they treat
it like, oh, this is somethingnew, this is something that yeah
, drag, or just be clear, butdrag to yeah, like Anything
queer really.
That this is something new,like this is foreign to our
(24:09):
world, when there has been Longhistories of queer people
existing everywhere India,greece, I.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Was reading stuff on South Africa, the movements in
South Africa for Drag and and,like you said, in India, the
Philippines.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Thailand, thailand, indonesia, yes, yes, of
different places to already havehad Queer history.
You know natives here in the US.
You know they had somethingcalled two-spirit, which I don't
know what about, but it'sanother queer thing that's not
(24:56):
man or woman or straight.
It was something completelydifferent.
Long histories of it.
There's even, like paintings ofour pots, art that depicts.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes, that's Roxy.
We know that.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, roxy's drinking water, the queer people existing
it in our history, all over theplace.
Right, it's not something new.
It's not.
It's never been something new.
We've always been here and youknow what we deserve to To, to,
to be studied, to be accepted to, for you to get to know us.
That's, that's what I feel like.
(25:35):
If these people have alwaysexisted, don't we deserve to be,
to be?
Don't we deserve to have to belearned from as well?
Oh, yes, right, yes some someonesaid that I don't know who, but
you know if we've always yourexperiences are worthy.
(25:56):
Where we're well, yes we'vebeen here this whole time.
What?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
are you talking about ?
Right?
This is not new.
It's not new.
I Was intrigued by the commentthat Alex mentioned two spirits.
I had never heard that beforeand I had to look it up and
share that with you.
Traditionally, native Americantwo-spirit people were male and
female, and sometimes Intersexedindividuals who combined
(26:24):
activities of both men and womenwith traits unique to their
status as two-spirit people.
In Most tribes, they wereconsidered neither men nor women
.
They occupied a distinct,alternative gender status.
So tell me, alex, how, so how,did drag save your life?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
So I got, I kind of got into like high school, being
hard earlier.
And you know I was a verydepressed kid, especially my
senior year of high school, andmy depression got so bad where I
couldn't get out of bed in themorning.
(27:08):
I also had to hide that from mymom.
I remember waking up andfeeling just empty.
You know, like I felt it was afeeling where, like I kind of
described it back then as likewaking up and feeling it in your
(27:29):
bones that you're going to die,and I woke up with that feeling
like every day for maybe likethree months or so.
Wow, that's like how deep andbad it got.
And at the same time I had toworry about my mom finding out.
So what I would do in my senioryear is sorry what I would do is
(27:54):
I would wake up and the firstthing I would do would be hide
under my bed, and I'd hide mybackpack too, and I'd hide my
shoes, so it looks like I left.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And I'd wait for my mom to leave to go to work, and
as soon as she did I would getup from under my bed and go back
to sleep.
And then when I woke up, I'duse the bathroom, I grab
something to eat, I'd make, justthrow something together, I ate
(28:31):
it, and then I would takepretty much my whole bed with me
, my blankets, and just drag itto the living room and then I'd
go to sleep again.
And then by the time my mom gothome, that's when I'd wake up
again.
And so I, just because I justhad no will to just go- home.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
This was you were supposed to be in school.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes, Wow, oh, I remember getting like, oh, they
would send letters, oh, I'm sure, yeah, like where's your son?
Where is your son he's not here.
Wow, like if you were supposedto go to court for me being
tardy so much.
I think I did that for likethree months straight, vanessa.
Wow, like three months and itwas.
(29:15):
And after that it wasinteresting because I still
didn't go to school.
When I got better and I did, Isigned up for home hospital,
which is a program for kids whostruggle going to school, where
a teacher comes and has lessonswith you and I forgot her name.
But God bless her Because shereally helped me out when my
(29:39):
senior year.
That's how I got my.
Because of her, I graduated.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But instead of going to school, what I was doing was
planning this queer prom.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Oh, I think I remember telling you about this?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Tell me more, come on .
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, and so I was.
I was president of the GenderSexuality Alliance and I might
not have been in school, but Iwas still doing, I was still
present.
I was doing a damn thing and Ididn't, didn't tell anyone I was
doing.
We had this one meeting when,because I was going to school
until probably October and we'relike let's have a queer prom,
(30:18):
and I was like, okay, and then Iran with it and I ran so far
that no one, no one knew what Iwas doing.
Oh, you run your own.
I was on my own because Iwasn't going to school all of a
sudden and so I don't know.
I just I was like, okay, queerprom, let's do it.
And I remember talking to thecounty about it with their
(30:38):
office of LGBTQ plus affairs andI managed to get like AK and
funding Wow.
And yeah, and I, I, I, I bookeda Mexican heritage puzzle as a
venue.
I got food some vegetarian andyou know, vegan was in the thing
back and I'm kidding, we shouldhave had vegan food, but do you
(31:01):
know what Vegan and decorationsand DJs and drag performers as
well, and I was one of them.
Oh yeah, we were gettinginterviewed and a lot of stuff,
but it was, it was really cool.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That was your first drag performance.
No actually this was like mymaybe third or four.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I started drag when I was like 18.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
This is when I actually started doing track and
it was because of the youthspace.
They were helping me with thisqueer prom as well, Because at
this point I was doing, I thinkI've already had my first
performance with them.
They would put on like dragshows and you know the the young
ones as high schoolers werewith, be get help with drag and
(31:50):
you put on a show for all of ourloved ones and that's what that
was my first performance.
I know I'm going everywhere, butmy first ever drag performance
was I wore this wedding wig.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It was so.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It was like reflective and had bangs and it
was hard front and cool and Iwore like this like corset thing
with this like buckle from.
It was all from like partiessitting or something.
But we had some funding becausethey gave us.
It was a grant that they gavethe youth space of some kind of
(32:30):
money from.
I think it was some kind of artprogram grant and they bought
me a Trump pinata.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
A Trump pinata.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Okay, we won't go there, but it's my first
performance.
No, no, tommy, tommy, oh mygosh, your performance was with
the Trump pinata.
Yeah, oh my God, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I have videos of it, I'll show you later, Okay, but
it was like you know cause wewon't get into it, but it was a
Trump pinata and the song wasyou Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore
oh, my gosh, okay.
And they had decorated thepinata with some things that you
know our dear ex-president hassaid.
And when the climax of the songcame, someone came out with the
(33:15):
pinata on a fishing pole and Ihad like some baton and I just
started beating the out of itand the roar from the audience.
When that happened, the roomwas so loud and I'll never
forget it.
It was.
I was so nervous and scared andexcited and I didn't know all
(33:36):
the words and I just and I feltbeautiful and it was, and I and
I've ever since that, like, wow,like I felt like I want to do
this forever, for as long as Ican Drag is not easy, but it was
.
That was another likelife-changing moment, especially
(33:56):
coming out of that dark placethat I was experiencing back
then Because it was so dark.
You know, I'm into this andinto this yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Wow, wow.
You know, I almost you know soLet me ask you that is that
where you the I don't know whatto call it a phrase, the
statement that drag changed mysaved my life.
Yeah, I saved my life.
It's exactly what you justdescribed, isn't it?
(34:28):
Yeah, from a dark space intothis beautiful Expression of of
you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, it was so hard, like I, when I was that
depressed, you know, I Did tryto take my life a few times
Because I felt like this worldjust wasn't for me.
Like this world was was tryingto put me down Into a place
(35:02):
where I couldn't get back up,and it was a lot of factors.
You know, it was my mom'sBehavior and treatment of me
when I came out and Feelingostracized at school and I
(35:23):
Feeling like I didn't have likea place anywhere, that no one
loved me Not if I died right now, no one would care and I'm sure
you know a lot of people canrelate to that feeling and Not
(35:48):
even not, and just a lot ofpeople, not just queer people, I
think that's part of humannature.
Yeah, some of the dark spotsthat we go to and it's so hard
that when you're, when you're inthere, it's so hard to to look
back at the good that lifebrings.
Okay, and it's something I'veworked hard at.
(36:10):
You know I, I still have mymoments, but I Feel like I've
come a long way.
I Feel like, with ourdiscussions, you At you, you
tell I've, I've, I try my bestto Be a positive Person, very
(36:31):
much so, looking at the brightside of things, because in a way
you have to.
You know what, what's, what'slife worth living, if you, if
there's no good things, you know, and Sometimes they're so hard
to see, but they're thereabsolutely.
They're everywhere absolutelyyou know even this.
(36:54):
You know you said you havebreakfast in the morning outside
, right that sounds lovely, eventhose even small little things
like that.
You know, and you're justthinking in this moment I Love
my life.
I Love that I have a chair outhere and I can have my bowl of
(37:14):
cereal in the morning sun andlook at the blue sky and and and
appreciate life and feelgratitude, and it's something
that I try to practice every day, and all the little small ways
I can, because I love beingalive and I have so many things
(37:37):
I want to do and so many thingsI want to share and so much love
to give for everyone.
I Never want to feel that wayagain and.
I work hard every day to makesure I don't and to make sure
that other people Don't feelthat way either.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
And one of those ways I do that with is drag.
How I Mean what you have justsaid is Is deep.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Because it runs deep like that it is.
It runs deep.
Being queer is not easy in thisworld.
There's so many things againstyou all the time, so many social
structures, society, yourfamily, laws and regulations
(38:31):
religion.
It's so easy to to feel likethe world's against you.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
So it's amazing, the things that you've said, that
every day is those little teenythings, the rays of light.
The rays of light and hope andand and.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
When you're alone, like that it's, it's easy those
things become visible.
And that's how, like when Istarted going to the youth space
and Meeting all these queens,I'll be a patty, you know she
would.
I only what I want, but whichchanged your life?
But yeah, I would love to talkto her.
(39:15):
But, um, meeting my drag mamato use space, you know she would
volunteer a lot there.
You know, a monarch Love she's.
I owe so much to my.
She's taught me so manybeautiful, wonderful things.
And you know, petty page, youknow she still works at the
youth space now.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
What's a drag mom?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I'm like a mentor, pretty much in drag.
They kind of teach you you knowhow to like, keep cinch and
your waist had a cinch, youwaste.
You know what course it's tobuy.
Yes, yes you know the kind ofmakeup that's gonna go good for
your skin and how to sew I.
She taught me how to sew.
She taught me how to style wigsLots of things.
(40:02):
She taught me how to be abetter person.
Oh, oh.
Oh she taught me how to be akind, loving person.
I Know a lot to her.
I have a love, I have a lot oflove for her and she is she
really is like a mom.
You know I call her mama, ourmommy, and and she'll, she'll
just send like the most ramp.
(40:23):
Like just today at work shesent me a message like the
universe is is beautiful andwonderful and You're gonna love
today, you're gonna have a goodtime today.
Oh me, huh, thanks, I love you.
And she'll just say like randomthing and it's just another
jack-queen.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Is that, is that part of the drag community, is that?
Is that encouragement, thatLifting, lifting each other up?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
you know, I, I, I'm.
Unfortunately, drag is verycompetitive.
Often I Steer clear from thatkind of energy.
Okay you know, it's kind oflike a space where you know
we're drag queens and work, workqueer and but not all drag
(41:18):
queens are queer.
Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I just know I want, I went, I'm I'm not kind of set,
I'm just actually kind of aquestion that's, but I read that
as well.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, yes like you know, maddie Morphosis is a very
.
She got on drag race season 14.
Yes she was a first-everstraight drag queen to ever do
the show and and something aboutlike the way she describes it
is that it's her art and andshe's learned a lot about our
community doing drag, oh, evenif she's not, she's not queer
(41:52):
herself just like on the show.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Oh, it's about stepping into somebody else's
shoes, mm-hmm, so to speak.
Yeah, and they're all spiked,you know?
Yeah, I'm somebody else's shoesedit edits.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Uh, you know I appreciate a lot about her for
her for that, because you know,oftentimes when you're a
minority you need someone up themajority to bring attention to
things.
Oh, I want to talk more about,like, the first few drag queens
I've interacted with.
Like I already talked aboutthem earlier.
(42:29):
I wasn't really finishedBecause they've affected me in
many, many, many Good, positiveways.
I've learned a lot about thingslike just humanly things.
You know how to take care ofone another.
Yeah you know consent.
You know being okay to be notokay.
(42:53):
Okay, you know being beingputting your foot down when when
need be a lot of confidence.
I've learned from these peopleand and it was something I
(43:15):
really really needed back then Iwas like a shell just walking
around, vanessa, and it was justlike it was it felt like I was
putting a mask on oh.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
You weren't being you , I wasn't being me.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
You know, and I learned how to be myself because
these people encouraged me todo so.
And going back to like our dude, the drag community, like it
can't be very competitive.
But you know, and we might notlike each other, you know, often
we might not like each otherall the time, but if someone was
harassing me in front of thesepeople, even if they don't like
(43:52):
me, I know they'll step in.
You know I might not like youbut I'll defend you and
someone's being a F*** to you Isthat community?
That is community.
Yes, you know.
So you know we're a very smallpopulation of people.
I think we're only like 10% orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm talking chugging 10% of queer people who happen
to be drag queens.
Okay, drag okay, you know, we,we often stick up for each other
because there's so little of usright.
You know, and often drag queensare the most fiery.
(44:34):
No no you know it's, it's a.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
It's a.
It's a visual protest.
I'd like to say oh, that's whatI like too.
I see that as well.
I see the tell me this is justafter our conversations.
I see a Drag artist, the hairand the incredible makeup and
(45:02):
the clothing and the colors andthe kind of the over-the-top.
I see it, like you just said,as a visual protest or as a
visual Look at me.
Yeah, I look at me.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I'm, I'm worthy to be seen mm-hmm, and and you can
you if, if you're any ounce ofsomething like this, you have a
community here.
I, I'm your community.
I'm gonna help you.
I'm gonna take care of.
(45:36):
Feel welcome and loved, andloved.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
And isn't that what we all want?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, and and drag is is like it's like a homing
beacon.
Often, at least in myexperience, we're like knights
and shining armor.
You feel safe where there'sdrag if you're queer.
Oftentimes, and especially likethe community now, like with
(46:04):
drag, and I'm very involved inthe scene now.
I Love my home bar.
I love Everyone who goes inthere.
Everyone who comes to see theshows enjoy themselves, support
the establishment, love who theyare, and In a building full of
(46:24):
people who love who they are andyou've been there too- Remember
, you can't miss your show.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I have.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Did you not have fun?
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Had a blast.
I had a blast and I felt thelove that you're talking about.
It's love and it's.
I didn't feel awkward there.
I didn't feel in terms of evenfor me as a, as a straight woman
, going into it, into the bar,any bar.
I didn't feel weird, you know,because at any bar sometimes you
(46:55):
feel weird because Because thepeople's energies and you know
all the things that arehappening in bars, yes, I felt
great there.
I felt accepted there.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
And you?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
we don't care that you're a straight woman, yeah
and I felt that it was great andyou didn't care that I was
there enjoying myself.
It was great.
It's a good experience, yeahyeah, and I Get to.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'm lucky enough to get to experience that often.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I can see now why, alex, I Understand as I
listen to the depths of yourstory.
I Can see now how you can saydrag, save your life.
Yeah, it's, I Can see that.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
It's amazing.
You know I don't know what thehell I'd be doing.
You know I get to, I have anoutlet when I can express my art
, express myself, with otherpeople doing the same thing, and
this beautiful little buildingI love for decades and I love
(48:09):
everyone there.
We always just encourage eachother, always, all the time.
Nothing with positivity fromwhat I've experienced, love it
and, you know, after coming outof my depression, and it's been
nothing but smiles often, asmuch, as much, as many smiles as
(48:33):
I can get, often.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Thank you for sharing your story, alex.
Yeah, I think.
I think the conversation we hadamongst the plants that one day
Was right on To come to thispoint.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
You're talking about the tilbaghia, the car.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
It was that a whole time that we were talking about
Gosh.
Could we?
Could this be a one of thepodcasts?
How could we do this?
Because you know, the podcasthas that kind of you know,
amazing people doing incrediblethings in the world and and I
was Not that I wasn't not sold,but the idea I couldn't figure
(49:21):
out how.
But the story tells itself.
Your story is really beautiful.
Your story is really amazingand I hope that the listeners
feel what I have felt from you,because I can see this change
that's come over you.
So the story that we brieflytalked about, that one day
(49:44):
amongst the plants, yeah youknow, as we're moving things
around, smelling, looking andreally being in the plants that
idea that we had to bring thisstory forward.
I'm really grateful we did.
I'm really grateful we did andI really appreciate you and
thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
I know we're good friends.
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
So appreciated Alex's vulnerability and his
willingness to put it all outthere.
I Understand his statement moreclearly now about how drag
saved his life.
I had lots of wows.
I didn't know that type ofmoments.
I'm so proud of you, alex, andso honored to have been able to
support you and sharing yourstory.
(50:25):
If you want to learn more, needsomewhere to talk to or need
some help, there are groups thatcan that you can call on.
We'll have websites listed onthe two chicks in a whole
website for you.
You're not alone.
Listeners, please help shareAlex's beautiful expression of
his love for his community andhimself by sharing his story.
(50:47):
Thanks, as always, for taking alisten.
Take care everyone.
Drag is an art form.
Usually it's a form ofentertainment where artists will
typically have a lot of makeup.
It's a lot of exaggeration ofgender.
You'll see a lot of differentkinds of drag artists more
feminine presenting, moremasculine, presenting with a lot
(00:20):
of exaggerated features that wesculpt onto our bodies with
makeup.
It's a lot of preciseness.
Sometimes it can be a littlemessy, but it's usually very
colorful and very bright andlots of different kinds of
styles out there.
But that's typically what dragis and my definition of it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's with the deepest respect that I asked my friend
Alex to join me in aconversation today, a
conversation that started oneday when we were working amongst
the plants at a nursery.
When Alex declared to me dragsaved my life and can change the
world, I was totally intriguedand it started a conversation
(01:04):
that was too important not toshare with the world.
Alex shared a very personalstory.
(01:30):
Sometimes our own individualstories, when shared, can change
the world.
I actually think that big,dynamic world and cultural
shifts are started by thosesmall, brilliant stories like
the one you're going to heartoday.
Hey, listeners, it's Vanessafrom Two Chicks in a Hole and I
(01:52):
wanna tell you a little story.
So a few months ago I wasworking at a nursery with my
guest that you're gonna behearing from in a second and we
were talking about the podcastand we were talking about ideas
and potential guests and helooked at me and he said I could
(02:13):
be a guest and I thought I waskinda like, okay, how?
And he told me he said we coulddo an episode on how drag saved
my life.
And I was thinking, huh, youknow, honestly, I wasn't putting
(02:35):
the pieces together, I wasn'tconnecting the dots and the more
we talked, the more I realizedyeah, we need to talk.
We need to talk.
So I'd like to introduce you toAlex Mondragon, also known as
Bellad onna, and Alex is afriend and a drag artist here in
(02:58):
the Bay Area.
Welcome to the show, alex.
Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So you know we're gonna explore the topic of how
how drag saved your life.
Yeah, totally Excellent.
So, like I said before to youguys, I had no idea how we were
gonna even talk about this, butevery time Alex and I start a
conversation, one, I'm blownaway.
Two, I learned so much and Irecognize more and more how drag
(03:33):
changed his life and more aboutthe community and more about
this.
So let's talk, let's talk, tellme okay, let's go to the basics
here, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
So, when it comes to drag, drag is an art form.
Usually it's a form ofentertainment where artists will
typically have a lot of makeup.
It's a lot of exaggeration ofgender.
You'll see a lot of differentkinds of drag artists more
feminine presenting, moremasculine, presenting with a lot
(04:09):
of exaggerated features that wesculpt onto our bodies with
makeup.
It's a lot of preciseness.
Sometimes it can be a littlemessy, but it's usually very
colorful and very bright andlots of different kinds of
styles out there.
But that's typically what dragis and my definition of it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, and listeners too.
Alex and I talked a lot aboutthis as well.
This is a conversation betweenthe two of us and it's Alex's
story.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, it's about me Like I'm a queer person and I
can only really speak for myselfand my experiences.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
As all of us.
That's all we all can do.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, but I feel that a lot that I've been through
and a lot that I've learned canbe a lot of people's stories as
well, and a lot of people canrelate to it and learn something
and maybe have experienced itthemselves as well.
And that's what I'm hoping totalk about more of, especially
(05:17):
with going on with drag latelyand what's been going on with
the queer community here in theStates.
So I'm happy to talk about thatanytime.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Excellent, I love it.
So tell me I guess we'll goback to a little bit, to even
the beginning of in terms ofyour life.
In conversations that you and Ihave had, can you describe to
me a little bit about kind ofgrowing up and the idea of who
(05:48):
or who that didn't make you who?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I am today, yes, well , I mean.
So I've always kind of like,felt like a different kid, like
I'd always.
You know, we compare ourselvesto everyone else.
We want to, you know, fit inand be the same in certain ways.
And you know, we all think thatthere's like some kind of track
(06:14):
of life that we have to stickto.
We're all on the same road andwe're all going to same places
and that's typically like thenarrative to society.
And I've never really fit thatmold, and even as a child, like
because kids are a lot smarterthan you think they are, you
know they're a sponge ofinformation and they pick up on
things and they comparethemselves to others and me
(06:40):
doing that growing up, just likeany other kid, you feel
different when you know thatyou're not the same.
Of course, like I remember, youknow, having crushes on other
boys and whatnot, and but thenI'd have girlfriends because I'm
like, well, everyone else has agirlfriend.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I'm supposed to have one too.
I'm supposed to have one too.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So it was a lot of things like that and he, well,
you told me at one point too.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
you told me that you were discouraged, yeah, yeah,
from, for example, from when twowomen might walk by holding
hands.
You were told don't look atthem.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, like, oh, like, and that has to do a lot with,
like, my mom, my mom lots ofthings there and I'm happy to
talk about it.
I do want to say that, like me,my mom, like, we love each
other very deeply.
We have our own specialrelationship and we've grown a
lot as mother and son, but itwasn't easy.
(07:41):
Because of that, a lot ofthings happen.
She said a lot of hurtfulthings, A lot of.
She was very she's a veryopinionated woman and she'll she
wouldn't be afraid to tellanyone anything that she felt.
You know, and oftentimes, youknow, I'd see like there'd be
someone on the street likeholding hands, or you know
(08:03):
couples, same gendered couplesand or something gay was
happening on a TV and she'dcover my eyes and she's like
Alex, don't look at that.
And it was very much somethingthat she instilled in me.
It's, you know, as parentsoften do.
You know, you try to protectyour child from things that you
(08:24):
think aren't okay, Right right,you know, and that happens in
every family, Right?
So yeah, it was often thingslike that where I would see
something.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, so was so.
So seeing that and then beingtold that that wasn't okay.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That wasn't okay.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Was that kind of confusing?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, I mean it was like.
You know I see like otherpeople do that all the time,
like man and woman, you knowkiss on TV, hold hands, you know
, talk about deep relationship,things that couples talk about,
and married couples, and it wasstrange to me that I was told
(09:15):
you know, don't be like thatever.
This is bad, even though I dosee it outside often.
You know there's a lot ofexamples in media often, or
queer coded characters and TVshows and whatnot, and but then
you must have been also gettingthe message.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Then that don't be you.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Exactly, you know, because I felt like a connection
to these people.
As a kid, I've always felt that, that connection, and I can see
, even if I didn't really knowthe words for it.
I felt something there that Iwasn't the same as others and
that that what I, what I wasfeeling, wasn't okay.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Because that's what you were being told Exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's, that's what I've been being taught.
I mean, that was like every,every queer children's being
taught pretty much.
You know, don't look, don'tlook at that, don't be that,
don't.
A lot of don'ts.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Okay, okay.
So then, how did the drag comeinto play?
What was your first experiencewith drag?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You know, actually it was my sister when forgot what
year it was, but it was a fourthseason of drag race and my
sister at the time she's olderthan me by two years.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And wait, wait, wait, drag race is RuPaul's.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I just double check in here, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
It's been airing since 2009.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And I was born in 2000.
So you know, it's easy to counthow old I am.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know, oh, it's 2023.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So I'm 23 this year.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
We have it easy.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But, yeah, my sister was like the one who was
watching drag race for somereason, and I remember watching
it too and you know there's alot of iconic moments that it
was lucky enough to be able toexperience it when Aaron that is
now very popular, but that waslike my first exposure to drag.
(11:22):
It was season four, it was.
Who was it?
It was Fifi O'Hara, it wasWillem, it was Milan, it was all
the cast of season four and Ijust saw like these, like these
giant women, that's what it feltlike.
It was like, like who are thesepeople?
You know, like, why are they solike big and beautiful and
(11:45):
glamorous?
You know why can't?
You know why can't I be likethat too?
You know it was, and it waslike I want to do that.
That looks like fun orsomething like that.
It was some kind of connectionagain, because when you, when
you again, when you know thatyou're not, you're a different
kind of kid and you seesomething that you just you have
(12:07):
that attraction to you, youkind of go, you, you study it a
little, you have that a littlebit of a focus on it.
And I remember, like, even as Iwas watching Drag Race and I
only remember little bits andpieces because oftentimes I
don't want my mom to come homeor come in the room to see me
(12:30):
watching this, you know what Imean.
Yes, and so I, even though I was, I was, it was in front of me
on a TV with my sister.
If my mom came in I would justwalk away, you know, go to the
other room, go in the kitchen orsomething, and I didn't get to
watch like my sister did.
And my sister she's, you know,she's a, she's a cis girl, you
(12:52):
know, like what, what, what,what, what, what.
How does that kind of affecther when it's a bunch of mostly
men dressing up like that?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You know that was my mom's concern, like I don't want
my child being exposed to theseweird like perverted men doing
God knows what on a TV show.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Okay, and it was always like that, even like you
know, and it wasn't even justdrag race.
Growing up as a kid, like Iremember like watching the wings
club in secret I love that show, it's a show about like fairies
and stuff, or like Tara Duncan,it was like all bunch of like
4W kids, whatever that stationwas and I remember waking up so
(13:35):
early in the morning, beforeanyone else got up, and secretly
watching all these like showswith these hyper feminine like
girls and you know, with likeskirts and and glitter and
colored hair and with thisfemale energy.
And I just second someone wokeup, I changed the channel and
(13:59):
put on Pokemon all the time, allthe time, because you were
embarrassed and stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, Well, I'd also get in trouble, oh it wasn't
just like embarrassment.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Like you know, I wouldn't say I was like
typically, like necessarilyembarrassed, but I was like I
felt like I was doing somethingbad.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Oh, he felt you were doing something wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, exactly Like I shouldn't be doing.
This is what I felt likewatching those shows.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And so tell me then, so I understand that you felt
that you were doing somethingwrong watching.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Drag.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Race.
Yeah, all right.
So then tell me how did thatshift?
What was the big shift?
What was your first experiencemeeting a drag artist?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
This is a great story actually.
Well, it was when I was in highschool.
I kind of like, when you knowyou move from school to school
and you get older, especially inmiddle school, I was like, okay
, I'm like by or something.
I am not, I don't like girlslike that right now.
And you know, in middle schoolI came out as by friends and
(15:19):
friends only.
And then on eighth grade I cameout as gay and in high school I
was completely gay and it gothard.
At school my friends wereaccepting, but then I noticed
that other people startedtreating me differently because
I was so open.
You know, if I can't be open atschool, I'm going to make
(15:41):
everyone else like be okay withme because I already get it, you
know, bad at home.
So that was kind of like mymentality about it, especially
after I came out.
I didn't want anything to holdme back.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So you wanted to be you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
I wanted to be me, even if it was hard, but
eventually it got it got.
It got difficult around people.
You know, some people didn'twant to be my friend or
oftentimes, oftentimes, I feltlike I make people uncomfortable
being myself.
You know, sometimes I wearmakeup.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
This is in high school?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, it is in high school.
I would often cross-dress to goto school because I don't know
why not, you know?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
like.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I wear like my mom's boots or something and a coat
and go do my thing.
And it was in high school whenI started getting involved with
the U space and downtown to helpme keep us in U space, which to
me was like it's anorganization where you know it's
a safe place for queer childrento go and you know have
(16:50):
supervision.
They offered therapy there forqueer kids as well.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know it's a great resource and I remember getting
involved with we had thesepasses to.
It was some kind of likefestival or Something, but there
was a drag queen is the point Iforgot what it was.
But there was a drag queen andthis is the first interaction I
ever had with a drag queen andwe got these passes, we went
(17:17):
inside and we were supposed tolike dance around her while she
performed, or something likethat, and Her name was 100% all
beef patty Okay, okay, that washer name and she was just giant
Goddess of a woman and she hadlike this fringe, like up and
(17:41):
down her body that was green andpink and just crazy.
She looked up like a freakingclown or something I don't know,
but she was huge with theseAlready, like maybe six foot
tall and like six inch heels.
Oh yeah, and like, oh, she wasfabulous and and that was my
first Interaction with a dragqueen we I think there's a video
(18:03):
of it somewhere, but I've neverI've never seen it.
I've never seen that videobecause I was just freaking,
just dancing Awkwardly.
I don't.
I have like two left feet.
I don't want to see that, butit's summer.
But yeah, that was my firstinteraction and it was another.
Like it reminded me of watchingdrag race again as a kid, where
(18:25):
it was like I want to be thisspectacular being because it
drag is like, it's like exceedsgender.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know it's, tell me more it's more than man and
woman.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
It's just an exaggeration of Whatever and you
be, you know it's anexaggeration of being a being,
exactly yes you know and andit's that energy coming out, but
in full color exactly and likethat, and it was as a, as a, as
(19:03):
a kid who's never felt like theyfit in.
That was Something at that time,in that moment, I'm like I want
to do this, I feel like I needthis, you know I why, because
this person was in front of mejust being whatever they wanted
(19:26):
to be and you know, the worldwasn't giving me what I needed
as a, as a kid, and and I sawthis person in front of me, just
who cares.
You know, I'm gonna be thisgiant, colorful Person and I'm
gonna perform and I'm gonna showeveryone that this is who I am
(19:51):
and I someone who didn't, whodoesn't fit in that was very,
very Attractive to me.
Nice something, something thatI'm not fitting in.
I need a community, I need aspace where I can fit in.
Yeah, it was, it was.
(20:15):
It was honestly life-changing,meaning freaking, and I kept
100%.
I'll be fatty, like that's agreat drag name, you know, and
it sticks with you and Iremember her, like not often,
but someone asked me like ohyeah, patty, I've never seen her
again.
Oh and she really like changedmy life and it to.
She kind of pushed me in adifferent direction a little and
(20:40):
she and we didn't even liketalk.
I don't even know what wetalked about.
I just remember, like it's liketattooed in my brain, this
image of her and Just I feellike it really changed
everything for me.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And so I started like .
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Getting more attracted to drag.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Alex and I were.
I wanted to mention this.
Alex and I were talking about ashow that brought up the idea
of Migration and the idea ofmigration.
So you're talking about the BayArea.
So you know, you think, oh, theBay Area, it's the you know.
But you're right, san Franciscois like a hub.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
It what yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
definitely as New York City and you know that kind
of a thing.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
So people migrated to those areas Dallas where they
felt more accepted.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, yeah, and they felt more they could have
community.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yes, got it, you know , and that's why, like back then
, even, like you know, san Josehas been voted very, very safe
for queer people.
For a long time I Always feltlike it was a lot of the younger
folk, a lot of queer folk here.
I want to order queer folk.
They kind of keep to themselvesoften the older ones.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, okay.
I've noticed that you know likethey have their friends and
some kind of kind of still someresidual from Exactly in the day
, so exactly like it's somethingthey're used to.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's something like oh I should just mind my own
business and be in my littleCircle and don't spread out that
much.
And it's still something thatI've noticed a lot often.
You know, you don't really seea lot of them Large movements of
, or large crowds of, queer,older queer often.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's a lot of it's a lot of younger people like you
got a Santa Cruz.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh, I just went to Rocky Horror over in Santa Cruz.
It was so much fun.
All of people, my other people,my age queers, all of them.
That auditorium just shockedfull of just these beautiful
people that, and Maybe like ahandful of of of, like parents
or something, you know, it'svery, it's very interesting the
(22:48):
way that, like from city to city, like the structure is
different and I think that hasthat has a lot to do with you
things that people haveexperienced in the past because,
you know, just honey a fewyears ago was a very different,
you know right Right you knowpeople couldn't be out, people
had to hide themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, we talked about that too.
We talked about, you know, andwe're not gonna get too deep,
because yeah we're not gonna gothat direction.
Yeah we talked, you and I did alittle bit about how Now um,
drag artists or drag has, isbecoming more on the forefront,
so to speak.
People are talking about itmore Maybe it's because of the
(23:29):
shows on TV, that kind of athing but also to the
transgender, all of that iscoming more forward into
people's conversations.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, which is?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
good, but then of course I hope it's not happening
because of the negativityassociated with the politics you
know in Tennessee and what haveyou.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Well, it is that's, that's, that's yeah, and that's
a sad part and it's.
And it's interesting how peoplereally treat it, how they treat
it like, oh, this is somethingnew, this is something that yeah
, drag, or just be clear, butdrag to yeah, like Anything
queer really.
That this is something new,like this is foreign to our
(24:09):
world, when there has been Longhistories of queer people
existing everywhere India,greece, I.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Was reading stuff on South Africa, the movements in
South Africa for Drag and and,like you said, in India, the
Philippines.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Thailand, thailand, indonesia, yes, yes, of
different places to already havehad Queer history.
You know natives here in the US.
You know they had somethingcalled two-spirit, which I don't
know what about, but it'sanother queer thing that's not
(24:56):
man or woman or straight.
It was something completelydifferent.
Long histories of it.
There's even, like paintings ofour pots, art that depicts.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes, that's Roxy.
We know that.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, roxy's drinking water, the queer people existing
it in our history, all over theplace.
Right, it's not something new.
It's not.
It's never been something new.
We've always been here and youknow what we deserve to To, to,
to be studied, to be accepted to, for you to get to know us.
That's, that's what I feel like.
(25:35):
If these people have alwaysexisted, don't we deserve to be,
to be?
Don't we deserve to have to belearned from as well?
Oh, yes, right, yes some someonesaid that I don't know who, but
you know if we've always yourexperiences are worthy.
(25:56):
Where we're well, yes we'vebeen here this whole time.
What?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
are you talking about ?
Right?
This is not new.
It's not new.
I Was intrigued by the commentthat Alex mentioned two spirits.
I had never heard that beforeand I had to look it up and
share that with you.
Traditionally, native Americantwo-spirit people were male and
female, and sometimes Intersexedindividuals who combined
(26:24):
activities of both men and womenwith traits unique to their
status as two-spirit people.
In Most tribes, they wereconsidered neither men nor women
.
They occupied a distinct,alternative gender status.
So tell me, alex, how, so how,did drag save your life?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
So I got, I kind of got into like high school, being
hard earlier.
And you know I was a verydepressed kid, especially my
senior year of high school, andmy depression got so bad where I
couldn't get out of bed in themorning.
(27:08):
I also had to hide that from mymom.
I remember waking up andfeeling just empty.
You know, like I felt it was afeeling where, like I kind of
described it back then as likewaking up and feeling it in your
(27:29):
bones that you're going to die,and I woke up with that feeling
like every day for maybe likethree months or so.
Wow, that's like how deep andbad it got.
And at the same time I had toworry about my mom finding out.
So what I would do in my senioryear is sorry what I would do is
(27:54):
I would wake up and the firstthing I would do would be hide
under my bed, and I'd hide mybackpack too, and I'd hide my
shoes, so it looks like I left.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And I'd wait for my mom to leave to go to work, and
as soon as she did I would getup from under my bed and go back
to sleep.
And then when I woke up, I'duse the bathroom, I grab
something to eat, I'd make, justthrow something together, I ate
(28:31):
it, and then I would takepretty much my whole bed with me
, my blankets, and just drag itto the living room and then I'd
go to sleep again.
And then by the time my mom gothome, that's when I'd wake up
again.
And so I, just because I justhad no will to just go- home.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
This was you were supposed to be in school.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes, Wow, oh, I remember getting like, oh, they
would send letters, oh, I'm sure, yeah, like where's your son?
Where is your son he's not here.
Wow, like if you were supposedto go to court for me being
tardy so much.
I think I did that for likethree months straight, vanessa.
Wow, like three months and itwas.
(29:15):
And after that it wasinteresting because I still
didn't go to school.
When I got better and I did, Isigned up for home hospital,
which is a program for kids whostruggle going to school, where
a teacher comes and has lessonswith you and I forgot her name.
But God bless her Because shereally helped me out when my
(29:39):
senior year.
That's how I got my.
Because of her, I graduated.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But instead of going to school, what I was doing was
planning this queer prom.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Oh, I think I remember telling you about this?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Tell me more, come on .
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, and so I was.
I was president of the GenderSexuality Alliance and I might
not have been in school, but Iwas still doing, I was still
present.
I was doing a damn thing and Ididn't, didn't tell anyone I was
doing.
We had this one meeting when,because I was going to school
until probably October and we'relike let's have a queer prom,
(30:18):
and I was like, okay, and then Iran with it and I ran so far
that no one, no one knew what Iwas doing.
Oh, you run your own.
I was on my own because Iwasn't going to school all of a
sudden and so I don't know.
I just I was like, okay, queerprom, let's do it.
And I remember talking to thecounty about it with their
(30:38):
office of LGBTQ plus affairs andI managed to get like AK and
funding Wow.
And yeah, and I, I, I, I bookeda Mexican heritage puzzle as a
venue.
I got food some vegetarian andyou know, vegan was in the thing
back and I'm kidding, we shouldhave had vegan food, but do you
(31:01):
know what Vegan and decorationsand DJs and drag performers as
well, and I was one of them.
Oh yeah, we were gettinginterviewed and a lot of stuff,
but it was, it was really cool.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That was your first drag performance.
No actually this was like mymaybe third or four.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I started drag when I was like 18.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
This is when I actually started doing track and
it was because of the youthspace.
They were helping me with thisqueer prom as well, Because at
this point I was doing, I thinkI've already had my first
performance with them.
They would put on like dragshows and you know the the young
ones as high schoolers werewith, be get help with drag and
(31:50):
you put on a show for all of ourloved ones and that's what that
was my first performance.
I know I'm going everywhere, butmy first ever drag performance
was I wore this wedding wig.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It was so.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It was like reflective and had bangs and it
was hard front and cool and Iwore like this like corset thing
with this like buckle from.
It was all from like partiessitting or something.
But we had some funding becausethey gave us.
It was a grant that they gavethe youth space of some kind of
(32:30):
money from.
I think it was some kind of artprogram grant and they bought
me a Trump pinata.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
A Trump pinata.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Okay, we won't go there, but it's my first
performance.
No, no, tommy, tommy, oh mygosh, your performance was with
the Trump pinata.
Yeah, oh my God, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I have videos of it, I'll show you later, Okay, but
it was like you know cause wewon't get into it, but it was a
Trump pinata and the song wasyou Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore
oh, my gosh, okay.
And they had decorated thepinata with some things that you
know our dear ex-president hassaid.
And when the climax of the songcame, someone came out with the
(33:15):
pinata on a fishing pole and Ihad like some baton and I just
started beating the out of itand the roar from the audience.
When that happened, the roomwas so loud and I'll never
forget it.
It was.
I was so nervous and scared andexcited and I didn't know all
(33:36):
the words and I just and I feltbeautiful and it was, and I and
I've ever since that, like, wow,like I felt like I want to do
this forever, for as long as Ican Drag is not easy, but it was
.
That was another likelife-changing moment, especially
(33:56):
coming out of that dark placethat I was experiencing back
then Because it was so dark.
You know, I'm into this andinto this yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Wow, wow.
You know, I almost you know soLet me ask you that is that
where you the I don't know whatto call it a phrase, the
statement that drag changed mysaved my life.
Yeah, I saved my life.
It's exactly what you justdescribed, isn't it?
(34:28):
Yeah, from a dark space intothis beautiful Expression of of
you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, it was so hard, like I, when I was that
depressed, you know, I Did tryto take my life a few times
Because I felt like this worldjust wasn't for me.
Like this world was was tryingto put me down Into a place
(35:02):
where I couldn't get back up,and it was a lot of factors.
You know, it was my mom'sBehavior and treatment of me
when I came out and Feelingostracized at school and I
(35:23):
Feeling like I didn't have likea place anywhere, that no one
loved me Not if I died right now, no one would care and I'm sure
you know a lot of people canrelate to that feeling and Not
(35:48):
even not, and just a lot ofpeople, not just queer people, I
think that's part of humannature.
Yeah, some of the dark spotsthat we go to and it's so hard
that when you're, when you're inthere, it's so hard to to look
back at the good that lifebrings.
Okay, and it's something I'veworked hard at.
(36:10):
You know I, I still have mymoments, but I Feel like I've
come a long way.
I Feel like, with ourdiscussions, you At you, you
tell I've, I've, I try my bestto Be a positive Person, very
(36:31):
much so, looking at the brightside of things, because in a way
you have to.
You know what, what's, what'slife worth living, if you, if
there's no good things, you know, and Sometimes they're so hard
to see, but they're thereabsolutely.
They're everywhere absolutelyyou know even this.
(36:54):
You know you said you havebreakfast in the morning outside
, right that sounds lovely, eventhose even small little things
like that.
You know, and you're justthinking in this moment I Love
my life.
I Love that I have a chair outhere and I can have my bowl of
(37:14):
cereal in the morning sun andlook at the blue sky and and and
appreciate life and feelgratitude, and it's something
that I try to practice every day, and all the little small ways
I can, because I love beingalive and I have so many things
(37:37):
I want to do and so many thingsI want to share and so much love
to give for everyone.
I Never want to feel that wayagain and.
I work hard every day to makesure I don't and to make sure
that other people Don't feelthat way either.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
And one of those ways I do that with is drag.
How I Mean what you have justsaid is Is deep.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Because it runs deep like that it is.
It runs deep.
Being queer is not easy in thisworld.
There's so many things againstyou all the time, so many social
structures, society, yourfamily, laws and regulations
(38:31):
religion.
It's so easy to to feel likethe world's against you.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
So it's amazing, the things that you've said, that
every day is those little teenythings, the rays of light.
The rays of light and hope andand and.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
When you're alone, like that it's, it's easy those
things become visible.
And that's how, like when Istarted going to the youth space
and Meeting all these queens,I'll be a patty, you know she
would.
I only what I want, but whichchanged your life?
But yeah, I would love to talkto her.
(39:15):
But, um, meeting my drag mamato use space, you know she would
volunteer a lot there.
You know, a monarch Love she's.
I owe so much to my.
She's taught me so manybeautiful, wonderful things.
And you know, petty page, youknow she still works at the
youth space now.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
What's a drag mom?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I'm like a mentor, pretty much in drag.
They kind of teach you you knowhow to like, keep cinch and
your waist had a cinch, youwaste.
You know what course it's tobuy.
Yes, yes you know the kind ofmakeup that's gonna go good for
your skin and how to sew I.
She taught me how to sew.
She taught me how to style wigsLots of things.
(40:02):
She taught me how to be abetter person.
Oh, oh.
Oh she taught me how to be akind, loving person.
I Know a lot to her.
I have a love, I have a lot oflove for her and she is she
really is like a mom.
You know I call her mama, ourmommy, and and she'll, she'll
just send like the most ramp.
(40:23):
Like just today at work shesent me a message like the
universe is is beautiful andwonderful and You're gonna love
today, you're gonna have a goodtime today.
Oh me, huh, thanks, I love you.
And she'll just say like randomthing and it's just another
jack-queen.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Is that, is that part of the drag community, is that?
Is that encouragement, thatLifting, lifting each other up?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
you know, I, I, I'm.
Unfortunately, drag is verycompetitive.
Often I Steer clear from thatkind of energy.
Okay you know, it's kind oflike a space where you know
we're drag queens and work, workqueer and but not all drag
(41:18):
queens are queer.
Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I just know I want, I went, I'm I'm not kind of set,
I'm just actually kind of aquestion that's, but I read that
as well.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, yes like you know, maddie Morphosis is a very
.
She got on drag race season 14.
Yes she was a first-everstraight drag queen to ever do
the show and and something aboutlike the way she describes it
is that it's her art and andshe's learned a lot about our
community doing drag, oh, evenif she's not, she's not queer
(41:52):
herself just like on the show.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Oh, it's about stepping into somebody else's
shoes, mm-hmm, so to speak.
Yeah, and they're all spiked,you know?
Yeah, I'm somebody else's shoesedit edits.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Uh, you know I appreciate a lot about her for
her for that, because you know,oftentimes when you're a
minority you need someone up themajority to bring attention to
things.
Oh, I want to talk more about,like, the first few drag queens
I've interacted with.
Like I already talked aboutthem earlier.
(42:29):
I wasn't really finishedBecause they've affected me in
many, many, many Good, positiveways.
I've learned a lot about thingslike just humanly things.
You know how to take care ofone another.
Yeah you know consent.
You know being okay to be notokay.
(42:53):
Okay, you know being beingputting your foot down when when
need be a lot of confidence.
I've learned from these peopleand and it was something I
(43:15):
really really needed back then Iwas like a shell just walking
around, vanessa, and it was justlike it was it felt like I was
putting a mask on oh.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
You weren't being you , I wasn't being me.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
You know, and I learned how to be myself because
these people encouraged me todo so.
And going back to like our dude, the drag community, like it
can't be very competitive.
But you know, and we might notlike each other, you know, often
we might not like each otherall the time, but if someone was
harassing me in front of thesepeople, even if they don't like
(43:52):
me, I know they'll step in.
You know I might not like youbut I'll defend you and
someone's being a F*** to you Isthat community?
That is community.
Yes, you know.
So you know we're a very smallpopulation of people.
I think we're only like 10% orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm talking chugging 10% of queer people who happen
to be drag queens.
Okay, drag okay, you know, we,we often stick up for each other
because there's so little of usright.
You know, and often drag queensare the most fiery.
(44:34):
No no you know it's, it's a.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
It's a.
It's a visual protest.
I'd like to say oh, that's whatI like too.
I see that as well.
I see the tell me this is justafter our conversations.
I see a Drag artist, the hairand the incredible makeup and
(45:02):
the clothing and the colors andthe kind of the over-the-top.
I see it, like you just said,as a visual protest or as a
visual Look at me.
Yeah, I look at me.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I'm, I'm worthy to be seen mm-hmm, and and you can
you if, if you're any ounce ofsomething like this, you have a
community here.
I, I'm your community.
I'm gonna help you.
I'm gonna take care of.
(45:36):
Feel welcome and loved, andloved.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
And isn't that what we all want?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, and and drag is is like it's like a homing
beacon.
Often, at least in myexperience, we're like knights
and shining armor.
You feel safe where there'sdrag if you're queer.
Oftentimes, and especially likethe community now, like with
(46:04):
drag, and I'm very involved inthe scene now.
I Love my home bar.
I love Everyone who goes inthere.
Everyone who comes to see theshows enjoy themselves, support
the establishment, love who theyare, and In a building full of
(46:24):
people who love who they are andyou've been there too- Remember
, you can't miss your show.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I have.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Did you not have fun?
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Had a blast.
I had a blast and I felt thelove that you're talking about.
It's love and it's.
I didn't feel awkward there.
I didn't feel in terms of evenfor me as a, as a straight woman
, going into it, into the bar,any bar.
I didn't feel weird, you know,because at any bar sometimes you
(46:55):
feel weird because Because thepeople's energies and you know
all the things that arehappening in bars, yes, I felt
great there.
I felt accepted there.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
And you?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
we don't care that you're a straight woman, yeah
and I felt that it was great andyou didn't care that I was
there enjoying myself.
It was great.
It's a good experience, yeahyeah, and I Get to.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'm lucky enough to get to experience that often.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah, I can see now why, alex, I Understand as I
listen to the depths of yourstory.
I Can see now how you can saydrag, save your life.
Yeah, it's, I Can see that.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
It's amazing.
You know I don't know what thehell I'd be doing.
You know I get to, I have anoutlet when I can express my art
, express myself, with otherpeople doing the same thing, and
this beautiful little buildingI love for decades and I love
(48:09):
everyone there.
We always just encourage eachother, always, all the time.
Nothing with positivity fromwhat I've experienced, love it
and, you know, after coming outof my depression, and it's been
nothing but smiles often, asmuch, as much, as many smiles as
(48:33):
I can get, often.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Thank you for sharing your story, alex.
Yeah, I think.
I think the conversation we hadamongst the plants that one day
Was right on To come to thispoint.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
You're talking about the tilbaghia, the car.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
It was that a whole time that we were talking about
Gosh.
Could we?
Could this be a one of thepodcasts?
How could we do this?
Because you know, the podcasthas that kind of you know,
amazing people doing incrediblethings in the world and and I
was Not that I wasn't not sold,but the idea I couldn't figure
(49:21):
out how.
But the story tells itself.
Your story is really beautiful.
Your story is really amazingand I hope that the listeners
feel what I have felt from you,because I can see this change
that's come over you.
So the story that we brieflytalked about, that one day
(49:44):
amongst the plants, yeah youknow, as we're moving things
around, smelling, looking andreally being in the plants that
idea that we had to bring thisstory forward.
I'm really grateful we did.
I'm really grateful we did andI really appreciate you and
thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
I know we're good friends.
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
So appreciated Alex's vulnerability and his
willingness to put it all outthere.
I Understand his statement moreclearly now about how drag
saved his life.
I had lots of wows.
I didn't know that type ofmoments.
I'm so proud of you, alex, andso honored to have been able to
support you and sharing yourstory.
(50:25):
If you want to learn more, needsomewhere to talk to or need
some help, there are groups thatcan that you can call on.
We'll have websites listed onthe two chicks in a whole
website for you.
You're not alone.
Listeners, please help shareAlex's beautiful expression of
his love for his community andhimself by sharing his story.
(50:47):
Thanks, as always, for taking alisten.
Take care everyone.
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