Force Multiplier? Call it a “Do-More-Without-More” Machine

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_07 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Thank you for listening.

(00:48):
All right, welcome back to CopsOne Donut.
I'm your host, Eric Levine.
Today I have with me Kevin Cox,my experiment.
How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Thrilled to be your experiment.
You are a guinea pig today.

SPEAKER_07 (00:58):
You are my guinea pig.
So for those watching andlistening, I got a new switcher.
So you can see.
That's Kevin.
Now you can see him.
And then you got our wide angle.
Oh.
So I'm going to be controllingthis while we talk, and then we
even have look at that fancything.
Where we can both be seen at thesame time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
No, I need my monitor.
I need a monitor there, and youneed one here.
Yes.
I got to get that eventually.
Eventually, Eric.

SPEAKER_07 (01:23):
That was 60 bucks.
Today was the day.
That was 60 bucks.
So cheap.
That was$60.
Bottle of bourbon cost me a lotmore than that.
Speaking of, yes.
Let me hold this up.
Kevin Brown.

SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Not advertising, but gifting.

SPEAKER_07 (01:38):
Bardstone.

SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Bardstone.

SPEAKER_07 (01:40):
Bardstone.
Oh my god.
Double barreled DiscoverySeries.
I have never had this.
This is series 13.
Lucky number.
And it is October.
So let's crack this guy open.
Tell me a little bit about this,sir.

SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
This is brand new to me, too.
I read reviews on it, hadn'tbeen able to find it.
It wasn't easy.
But I've got a friend at a placein Plano that uh he'll give me,
you know, hey, I've gotmultiples of these in.
But um smells good.

SPEAKER_07 (02:05):
Your glass there, sir.
There you go.
Get you about halfway up thatqueue.

SPEAKER_03 (02:10):
There you are.
Thank you.
Same for me.
I remember this is how itstarted last time.
It is how it started last time.
I know.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Except the my taste in bourbon has gone way up since
then.
That's four years ago.

SPEAKER_07 (02:22):
Okay.
It was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for those listening andwondering, um, we did.
We started, me and Kevin didthis four years ago, uh, when
you were leaving Grand Prairie.

SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Yeah, I had just retired in uh June of 21.
Yes.
Yeah.
So I jumped into the privatesector.

SPEAKER_07 (02:38):
So in that, can you kind of I just want because
we're not gonna do the sameformat we did last time because
we've already had you on.
So if they want to go back andwatch that.

SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
I could it would be better this time, I hope.

SPEAKER_07 (02:48):
Yeah, well, hopefully.
But with you retiring and beingin the private sector, just can
you go back and kind of givepeople a brief overview of your
police experience and kind ofwhat you specialized in?

unknown (02:59):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
Um the started uh I was retired from Grand Prairie
in 21.
The last few years that I wasthere, I built and managed the
Intel Center.
Uh, and I use that wordcarefully, an Intel Center.
Okay.
Because there's we now knowthere's so many different
distinctions.
Yes.
Um, so the before that I'dworked in patrol, I'd worked in
field training, I'd worked uhI'd worked in uh the worst named

(03:23):
unit in the world, problemsolving.
That was that was the worst namefor a a a unit ever, because
everything's a problem.
Yes.
So it became at times kind oflike the X-files of police work
at the agencies, like whateverdidn't fit in a category
anywhere, send it to Kevin'sguys.
Call him.
So you get angry bees,neighborhood disputes, fugitive

(03:45):
work.
Right.
Yeah.
So uh we got a little bit ofeverything.
Then we moved from there, uhkind of split things off.
There was a crime preventionunit.
So there was some it was aninteresting time for me because
it's like not everybody wants togo to what some people call like
um soft policing, you know, orall the community fair stuff and
everything.

SPEAKER_03 (04:03):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
I I was not itching to do it, but in that unit, it
actually opened my perspectiveup a ton.
I actually really looked muchwider at every how the city ran
and how the all the perspectivesof the people that were way
above me in the chain ofcommand.
I interacted a lot more withthem when that with that unit,
uh, because their focus is isoften a little different.
So I learned a lot from theworking inside of the problem

(04:27):
solving unit.
We then kind of morphed into ahuman trafficking unit after a
while.
Um I had a couple of guys therethat were in the unit that were
just ravenous to go after that,and they were very good at it.
So we worked alongside a lot ofthe DHS task force group guys,
and because Grand Prair boardedthat 360 corridor, it was just

(04:47):
it was more business than wecould take care of.
Uh we did that uh for a goodlong while.
And um see then I went back overto patrol, then came right back
out, uh, not long, and into theIntel side of things.
And Intel is where I probably Ihad two really awesome parts of

(05:09):
my career, and they ended thefirst one, obvious, when I
worked dope in the first partreal early, really early.
That was great, and it was timedright, you know.
Uh nobody should do their dopework when they're 40s, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a certain lookto that, but you know, uh,
you've got to have more of astory built up if you're you
know 40 something years old andyou're trying to sell dope or

(05:30):
sling it or buy it, you know.
Yeah, you should have more of atrack record out there.

SPEAKER_03 (05:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Uh if you're you know 20-something looking, 15,
yeah, it's it's okay to be thenew guy.
Um, but so I did that on early.
That was exciting.
That was as addictive as anydrug I did.
That was uh I I that was 24-7.
Loved it, lived it.
Um, when everybody else is goingand getting married, I was

(05:55):
chasing eight balls of math.
So not to use.
No, no, no, did not ever catchthem.
Just to be just to be clear.
Yeah.
Um, but the other part of theother kind of end cap to my
career was intelligence.
And it was fantastic.
It was what was in my wheelhousethat had kind of I'd been
growing with it.

(06:15):
I mean, I hit my chief up fordrones in 2010, uh, which was
early.
Way early.
Yeah, yeah.
But I I saw where things werekind of going that way.
Right.
And he held me back a littlebit, and he did, he was right to
do so.
He said, I think the FAA and theWhite House are kind of trying
to work this out a lot.
You know, this could take a fewyears.
Let's let's let them settle thisout before we dive in.

(06:35):
So we just so I basically wasjust keeping up with the
technology.
And I just told my chief, Isaid, I don't want us to be late
to the party when this reallybreaks loose.

SPEAKER_06 (06:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
You know, and we weren't.
We were not late to the party.
Uh no, we were early.

SPEAKER_07 (06:51):
It's still trying to kick off.

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, with the party's still going.

SPEAKER_07 (06:53):
Yeah, it's still trying to kick off.
There's a lot of agencies rightnow, uh, including my own, which
I'm from a very large agency,and we still don't have a full
DFR program.
So for those listening, DFR isthe drone first responder
program, and that is where youno longer are deploying a drone
out of the trunk of your car,which is kind of a common

(07:15):
practice now with the littleDJIs or or similar branded um uh
drones, but now we actually havethese pods that sit up on top of
buildings or on landing pads inthe middle of you know, city
property.
Usually it's off of cityproperty, and it's all
controlled remotely from uheither a real-time crime center

(07:37):
or an actual drone firstresponder room where it's just
for that stuff, and that is whatwe're kind of talking about.
That's just now happening, andyou guys were trying to do this
in 2010.

SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
So yeah, we were we I watched it for a while, and I
guess probably uh in 16, 17things started picking up a lot.
You know, a few agencies werestarting to get clearances or
you know, but it it was kind ofbaby steps.
Uh I want to say in 17 and 18,right in there, I too many years
ago now.
I don't remember it as well, butuh that's when the right drones

(08:12):
were being made or better dronesfor it.
And the there was a pathway toget clearance to fly.
Now flying where I was at inGrand Prairie, Texas, was the
alphabet soup of air classes.
Right.
I mean, it was I mean, we're atthe bottom of the the runways at
DFW Airport next to Arlington,and we had our own airport right

(08:33):
next to us, and then a sometimesused uh reserve base on the
other side.
Um and then we I mean we justhad so many airspace issues, it
was complex.
So the we started kind of small,three drones, I think is what we
started with.
We s a couple of like earlyMavics and then a a big uh uh

(08:53):
what wouldn't we call it, a 210.

unknown (08:55):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
That's how long ago that was.

SPEAKER_06 (08:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
And the I mean we learned everything as we went.
We had a couple of friends thatwere helping us.
Um and they I mean in thebeginning, I mean, really the
only thing out there were DJIs.
And uh developed a friendshipwith a guy named Wayne Baker,
who went on to retire and gofrom drone work and fire service

(09:19):
and stuff to go on, he's been atDJI for years now, at least
five.
Okay, and uh and I know there'sall kinds of stuff swirling with
DJI and things like that rightnow, politically and and
technically.
But the he helped us build ourfirst kind of team and set the
first training.
And that went from just a fewpeople and a couple of drones.

(09:42):
Yeah.
And then by the time I left, Ithink there were 24 hour
rotations of I think there mayhave been at the peak, it was 22
pilots, I think, on the roster.

SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
And uh more aircraft than I can even count.
Uh, we had these huge tables setup with battery banks that
timed.
I had one guy in my unit namedMarcos, he was the most
organized because I'll I'll callit that instead of giving it a
DSM designation uh disorder.
But fair.

(10:14):
He was incredibly organized andhe managed to get all of that
organized because batteries werelife then.
Yeah, and what I was spending onbatteries, just it was hard to
explain that to anadministration.
Say, oh yeah, hey, I needanother five or six thousand for
batteries this year.
I don't need it again next year.

SPEAKER_07 (10:32):
Continuous rotation.
Yeah, the the way that thedrones are trying to get to
today is they are specificallytrying to make it so officers no
longer have to swap thebatteries out themselves.
So the way that the drones aretrying to work now is in theory,
is the drone lands itself in thepods, a battery is changed out

(10:54):
through the mechanics of thatpod, and then the drone can go
right back up in the air.
Because most drones typicallylast about 20 minutes on a
flight time.
And and that's the trunk ones,the the it just it all depends
on the weather.
If the wind is bad, temperature.
Yeah, temperature.

SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
If it's super cold or super hot, your batteries
suffer for that.

SPEAKER_07 (11:13):
Yes.
So that's that's some of thetechnol technological um things
that we're trying to deal with,and then the battery life, how
long those will last because themore flight hours you get behind
a battery, the battery lifestarts to dwindle.

SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
And I don't think there's ever a time, even though
we're moving into DFR, uh, it'sa it's actually kind of there's
two lanes of traffic here, in injust my estimation.
I'm not in the middle of thedrone game anymore.
Um, but watching it closely, andthere's still a lane of travel
for the tactically fieldeddrones.
There's still a big use forthat.

(11:47):
And there's a variety of typesand things that are get you that
get used in that area.
Whereas DFR is a responderdrone, it's used in a little
more narrow scope, but itaccomplishes a lot.

SPEAKER_06 (11:58):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Uh, there's all kinds of uh they'll call it
force multipliers, but that'sjust a weird term to me.
Um, it it's a huge efficiencylever in things and what it can
do and when and how fast.
The trick now is everybodyfiguring out batteries.

SPEAKER_06 (12:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
There's this, I kind of consider it this golden point
of UAS aviation and publicsafety.
And that's when you can getsomething really up there in the
air to be able to loiter, hangaround, and fly for an hour.

unknown (12:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Once we get there, that's going to be a big kind of
crossover point where thesebecome boilerplate everywhere
because it's at that point, it'stoo efficient to not pay
attention.
We've had lots of new normals inlaw enforcement.

unknown (12:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
And I mean, look at the cars and how they're
outfitted and kitted nowcompared to 30 years ago.
30 years ago, you had a box thathad a switch with three
positions on it, you had abutton for a siren, you had some
version of something strappedonto the dash that had a notepad
on it.

SPEAKER_06 (12:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
And that car probably cost 25 grand.

SPEAKER_06 (12:58):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Kitted up.

SPEAKER_06 (13:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:01):
Right now you're rolling out$65,000 to$100,000 in
a car.

SPEAKER_06 (13:04):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Okay.
These this is that new normaltechnology that happens
routinely now.
DFRs.
When I first I was with acompany at that time that did
that was breaking into DFR, andwhen we first heard the the
numbers that that was going tocost an agency, we were like,
oh, I don't know how fast we canmove that normal that way.

(13:26):
It's moving that way.
Uh remarkably fast.
The price tags of two and threeand four hundred thousand or a
million a year for droneprograms.

SPEAKER_06 (13:36):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
That was unimaginable.
And when I started mine, it was,I mean, they were shocked at
what I was trying to say.
I need they looked at them like,I mean, literally, I I had some
chiefs refer to them as toys,you know.
And they believed they werereally going to just sit on a
shelf somewhere eventually.
They just weren't going to use.

SPEAKER_07 (13:50):
So, question, two questions, actually.
Um, one, you said you don't likethe term force multiplier.
What about force multiplierturns you off?

SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
It it it it almost as far as within public safety,
we get it.
And it kind of applies to allkinds of things.
But are you talking aboutheadcount?
Are you talking about speed tooutcome or accuracy to outcomes?
And the there's all kinds ofthings that go with that.
So the when you talk about forcemultipliers, it's a funky kind

(14:24):
of term for the public toabsorb.

SPEAKER_06 (14:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Uh first, force just sounds great to the public now,
right?
No, not so much, right?
Yeah.
So force multiplier may mean tothe public more force.

SPEAKER_07 (14:36):
Fair.

SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
So instead of force multiplier, there's got to be a
better terminology for this toexplain in an easy, digestible
way for the public what droneprograms do, what all kinds of
technologies do.
I'm heavy on the data side nowand analytics, what those do.
It and for force multiplier, itfeels like an old term.
Really nice.
Um what it what it these thingsdo can be dramatic.

(15:00):
Uh, what we were able to do withdrones was dramatic.
What I can do right now with myown, with the company I work
with, what we do in efficienciesand capabilities is stunning.
It was a stuff I dreamed of, youknow, just years ago.
That's how fast it's moving.
But I'd love for us to come upwith a better term uh than
things that fly around the airthan force multipliers.
Right.
I I guess uh And that's not mebeing you know like super

(15:24):
careful about every word I pickor anything, because people know
me, I'm not always super carefulabout every word I pick.

SPEAKER_07 (15:30):
Yeah, I think the the fair part behind saying
force multipliers, you have toexplain it.
So if I'm gonna say it, even ifit's publicly or privately in a
in a town hall meeting, but uhpublicly like on a news
conference or something likethat, I would always take the
time, like, hey guys, the youknow, we'll use LPRs, for

(15:51):
instance.
LPRs are a hot button issueright now with privacy and big
brother and stuff like that.
So when you start to talk aboutit, I tell people, I'm like, the
only place that the agency iscurrently putting LPRs is in
public areas.
And this is meant to be a forcemultiplier.
And what I mean by that is wecan't afford to hire more
officers.

(16:11):
If an officer could stand thereon the street physically by
himself and get thisinformation, that's where these
cameras are going.
So start to put it in thoseterms.
I said, but since we can't hiremore officers, now we have
cameras standing in their steadin in, you know, multiplying the
amount of cops that we couldhave out there that are static
and watching 24-7, which ismeant to help.

(16:34):
But I do get where they'recoming from when they're talking
about, you know, having a aforce, you know, how that can
how that can come across uh youknow poorly.
It's like verbal judo, verbaljudo.
Now now what do we say?

SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
And I think we have so many technologies out there
that are accomplishing thatforce multiplier goal.
I think it's good to flesh thatout in front of people so they
really understand where they'relanding in this.
Um, because there's confusion uhin the public and frankly,
confusion within public safetyuh about what we're doing and
how we're doing it.
And it's getting sorted out.
And this is uh I mean the theseare things that that are normal

(17:09):
paths that you travel astechnology changes.
Right.
Uh, you know, the when peopleask, you know, like, well, do
you think they're gonna do awaywith this or that or the other?
I said, well, I think if youfollow the path of powerful
tools, get powerful policies,workflow, and oversight.
Power needs powerful thingsbehind it.

(17:30):
And I think when you have thosein place and you are really up
front with everybody about itand how you're using it and all
of the checks and balances init, I think you these tools will
be preserved.
Right.
I think when you don't explainthat fully.
And we and so many people didn'tunderstand that in the beginning
of tech making big leaps in lawenforcement.
Yeah.
Uh I remember way back, rememberpepper spray came out?

(17:51):
Yeah.
Inflammable pepper spray.
We learned hard, horriblelessons.
Yeah.
And the but we grew on it.
Yeah.
Uh same about tasers, we grew onit too.
Now, tasers, I I can't evenimagine how many lives and
injuries on both sides that'ssaved.
Pepper spray too, but it pepperspray is like that last thing

(18:11):
you want to use.

SPEAKER_07 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, because it's the gift that keeps on
giving to everybody that'sthere.

SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
But we learned how to explain it to everybody.
We learn how to use it better,we develop policies, workflows.
All of it flows to everythingthat we're doing, like up to
what we did yesterday.
Uh the I like I love being onthe very cutting edge of that
technologies, you know.
And I remember when I was gonnaretire and I hadn't planned on
retiring at that time, I justgot an offer that was just too

(18:38):
good.
Uh so, but I had drones, datawork, and the LPR sensor
technologies.
These are the areas that I wasinterested in going into a
second career on.
And at that time, drones were, Imean, that was a scary
landscape.
Companies came and went over aperiod of months, you know.

(18:59):
So that was not big uh for me,but the but I was approached by
a company that wanted me to comeover and build something.
And I loved building things.
I did it through my whole policecareer.
I would work inside of unitsthat were new or new
initiatives.
That was great.

SPEAKER_07 (19:14):
And you were building for law enforcement, so
that is a way to keep serving.
Yeah, I think cops resonatewith.

SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
So the I was very lucky when I retired.
Uh first I had somewhere that Iwas gonna go directly to.
I talked to probably 25, 30 copsa year, and I mean not just a
casual conversation, but have acall with them about what their
ideas are, what they want to donext.
And it's much harder uh for somany of them.

(19:41):
I consider myself incrediblyfortunate to have been
approached, you know, uh abouthey, when are you thinking of
retiring?
And they, you know, they knewthat I was getting close.
I was 28, almost 29 years intotal time.
Yeah.
And I was happy.
I had built something great, itwas ready to be handed off to

(20:02):
somebody.
And how many cops do you knowthat leave a little bitter, a
little burned out, done with it,walking away?
Right.
Yeah, I I I didn't leave thatway.
Uh, I left good.
Yeah.
And then I realized as soon as Iwas outside law enforcement, but
on the technology sector side ofthe private, I was probably

(20:23):
within six, seven months to ayear, I was probably meeting and
talking to more cops than I didin a week at my own police
station, you know, all over thecountry.
And that was great.
It's been great ever since then.
Um, and I tell people, you know,when they ask me, you know,
okay, you went from there tothere in police work, you did
these things.
The opportunity uh that I wasgiven to build out an

(20:47):
intelligence center wassingle-handedly the thing that
gave me that career opportunityafterwards.
I had achieved that he assumedit was gonna in my wheelhouse,
and so he gave it to me, andthen I didn't sleep for four or
five years.
But the uh it was great, and Ilearned a ton.
Uh, you fail a lot.
And I realized that actuallyfailing and stuff like that is

(21:08):
not bad.
We don't we typically do notlike third failure in law
enforcement.
It's on the tech side, it'sokay.
You're gonna have to fail ifyou're gonna push forward and
get past points.

SPEAKER_07 (21:18):
Yeah, that's a I've we had this conversation not too
long ago at work.
I'm just you know, I had anofficer that was actually, you
know, I don't want to, I don'twant to fuck up, I don't want to
mess up.
I'm like, I want you to.
Like this, I want you to mess upbecause you won't make the
mistake again.
More than likely, you won't makethat mistake again.
Every, you know, I I alwaysrelate stuff back to jujitsu.

(21:40):
Like, you suck at jujitsu forlike your first year at least,
you suck, but you keep makingmistakes and you fix them and
you get better and you getbetter and you get better.
Um, learning from failure is youknow, especially in a safer
environment, is is amazing todo.
And I kind of want to go back towhat you were talking about with
the advancement of technologyand another way to put people at

(22:02):
ease.
This is one because because I amI'm a big proponent of
technology, I think it's a greatthing to have.
And I am also that guy that'slike, I don't want big brother
to overstep.
True.
And I don't want to ruin a goodtool, you know.
I don't want to be the guy thatthat gets a good tool taken away
from police work because thisstuff can help solve a lot of

(22:22):
crimes.
But with the advancement oftechnology, and one of the
things that I used to help putcitizens at ease, I goes, yes,
it it may seem like we're goinginto this crazy police state and
stuff like that, but you wantaccountability for officers.
Like that's always the big pushis like accountability for
officers.
Well, nothing helps keep copsmore accountable than the

(22:44):
advancement of technology.

SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (22:46):
Because now you've got, yes, you got LPRs out there
all over the place, but guesswho else they're watching?
They're also watching theofficers.
You've got all this technologythat requires, you know, logins
and tracks every piece of datathat these cops are touching.
We never used to have that.
You you've heard the old storieswhere they'd be using their NCIC

(23:07):
and stuff to look upex-girlfriends or try to find a
girl's number and stuff likethat.
And there was no checks andbalances on that stuff.
Try to do that today.
Try to go out there today and dothat without there being a track
record.

SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Yeah, the the I think I think most cops now that
are got through this within thelast 10 years are fully aware of
what an auto trail means.

SPEAKER_06 (23:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Okay, they get it.
Yeah.
And there's been examples inmost departments where somebody
got hemmed up that way in someway.
So in some ways, we had to gothrough that learning curve,
just like what I talked about inall kinds of you know, learning
experiences.
We had to go through that too inlaw enforcement for people to
figure out, you know, by objectexamples.

unknown (23:45):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (23:46):
You can tell them all day long, don't do that.
Until somebody has aconsequence.
You know, I I there's a phrasethat I I've used forever.
I don't even know when I came upwith it, or maybe I stole it.
I have no idea.
But it's there is no changewithout a consequence.
That means you do not changehuman behavior without a
positive or negative consequencefrom it.

(24:07):
They otherwise they just will dothe same thing right.
So it doesn't always have to benegative, but sometimes it's
positive.
But there is no change withoutthat.
And that's what we saw.
You get that change over time.
You do, because somebody had aconsequence.

SPEAKER_06 (24:20):
Yep.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
Somebody got a hero bar or somebody got days off,
you know.
But the uh every and technologyis one of those fields where
that applies, just like force,just like pursuits, all kinds of
things where you you've gotguardrails in there, uh, but
somebody's gonna have to be thattrailblazer to form that new
policy in a department that getsmade.

SPEAKER_07 (24:39):
Yeah.
And and you and I kind of talkedabout it offline just before we
got started, but I like I likethe ability to hold cops
accountable because I think inpolice work, one of the things
that we have a hard time doingis policing our own.
And it's not that I think copsare out there doing nefarious
things.
I don't know.
I I think 99% of them are outthere doing the right thing all

(25:02):
the time.
It's just let's just say, likein the detective's office, for
instance, there becomes aculture in an agency that is
inundated with cases.
You don't have enoughdetectives, so they can't
investigate properly, and youhave no way to prove this.
And now, with the way thattechnology is, um, company that

(25:23):
you're currently with, one ofthe checks and balances that
they're able to do is showleads, show leads.
I've got to cut you off already.
Uh so showing leads, things likethat, um, showing things that we
miss through human error.
Yeah, case management.
Case management, things likethat.
So it it's not that I want to,it's not that I'm going out
there and like we need to holdthese detectives because they're

(25:45):
they're intentionally doing no,I don't think they're
intentionally doing it.
I think when you've been at aplace for so long, and this is
how you were taught, and that'show the people before you did
it, that's all you know.
Well, technology is gonna changethat.
And change with cops is neverwelcomed.
Cops do not like change for themost part.
So with this advancement intechnology, it's one of the ways

(26:06):
I want to help push policeaccountability in a way to help
train us into a new way ofthinking, not burn us because
they're sure.

SPEAKER_00 (26:16):
It's not all, it's not all big brother on big
brother, really.
It really isn't.
Um just like in our in mycompany's in Peregrine's case
management areas, it used to beyou had folders, everybody still
does have folders, right?
Yeah.
That we're gonna change that.
But the the folders are sittingon these desks in three
different stacks, uh, stuffthat's you you've got suspended,

(26:37):
nothing on it, stuff that'sclosed, and stuff that's open.
Right.
They've got stuff.
And that's how it's beenforever, right?
In case management now, with ourstuff, you can see your own
stuff and where you've got itgoing and what's missing.
But whoever's having to kind ofrun the unit can now quickly
see, okay, uh, we don't havethese things and have a

(26:58):
conversation real quick.
Whereas a lot of times youdidn't find that out unless you
dug deeply into the case or itwasn't even obvious.
Or you find out really late thatstuff was missed.
You know, because the DA isgonna find it, or a defense
attorney is.

SPEAKER_03 (27:12):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
So the more systems you build in that help earlier
in the process and keep thingsmoving, because when your
suspended cases become more opencases, you're gonna need that
management to help that makemove efficiently.
Uh and I I remember as thingslike patrol division, shift
report every day.
That was just a kick in theshins.

(27:36):
The that was an hour out of thepatrol sergeant's time at the
end of every shift, and it wasterrible.
It was just and it was just andit didn't have a ton of value.

SPEAKER_06 (27:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
Our stuff that's automated.
Yeah.
And we just build it howeverthey want that shift report to
look and what they want in it,and it's done.
And it gets sent to all theright people at the same time,
every day, without fail.
With officers, it's the thingsthat we can automate and the
things that we can improvequality on without being a

(28:09):
hammer, you know.
Yeah.
Uh it's it's not that way.
The the tech we havetechnologies right now that are
improving our the like drones,are super efficient at some
things and can help outcomes.
The you have LPR technologies,video sensor, center

(28:29):
technologies essentially, thatdo a lot of the lift for us.
I mean, how many of us rolledthrough a parking lot in that
hotel, you know, that we knowevery doper in town is going to
be there this weekend orwhatnot.
And we're just running platesmanually, just hoping we've come
up with something we know, wedo.
Not that somebody else knows,but just us.
Go forward to now.

(28:51):
Now the LPR cameras are rollingthrough and hitting things left
and right, but now you look atyour screen, and instead of
looking at one, I'll use theterm silo of information, now
you look at how that piece ofdata, that link, that hit plays
across all of your systems andmaybe even your regional systems

(29:13):
across a Metroplex area like wehave.
And now you see this much biggerpicture uh relatively
instantaneously.
That compared to 19 also helltwo thousand, you know, or even
later of keying on a keyboard,hoping you're finding gold, you
know, yeah, uh the number ofstolen cars that get recovered

(29:34):
now.
Tremendous difference.

SPEAKER_07 (29:36):
Okay, so you're bringing up a good point that I
want to address, and I want youto kind of tell me what you
think about this.
With the advent of technologyand how advanced it's getting.
You remember back when you werea detective and going through a
case, you had your phone callsthat you had to make.
So you had to follow up on yourleads for those listening.

(29:57):
This is kind of the way a casemanagement would go.
You get your case.
You read over it, you're like,all right, here's witness one,
two, if there is any.
Here's my victim.
Um, and maybe or maybe not anypotential suspects.
And then you kind of look andyou're like, any businesses or
anything else that I couldfollow up on around the area?
So first you call your victim,okay, just kind of tell me what

(30:18):
happened again.
Okay, cool.
Um, do you guys have any videoof it by chance?
Because back in the day, thatwas gonna be a no.

SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Um, or it was gonna be on some weird codec box on a
shelf somewhere that nobody knewhow to get it out of.

SPEAKER_07 (30:31):
Yeah.
So then you okay.
Do you have any idea who it mayhave been?
No.
Okay.
Uh, do you know where your stuffmay have been taken?
Do you think it was pawned oranything?
Is there any identifiers?
Do you have any pictures of it?
So maybe we can go find yourstuff.
No.
Okay.
Well, shit.
Um, all right.
Uh let me see if there's anywitness.

(30:52):
Okay, call the witness.
What did you see?
I saw uh it looked like a guywearing all black.
How tall is he?
Um, between 5'2 and 6 foot tall.
And you're like, okay, how muchdo you weigh?
Uh between 125 and 225 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
95% of the population.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (31:09):
So you're like, okay, shit.
All right.
I got no witness.
I've got the victim doesn't knowanything.
There's no cameras because backin the day, nobody had cameras.
We didn't have ring and all thatstuff back in the day.
So your leads were prettysimple.
Now, fast forward to today.
Everybody has a ring camera orsomething like it.

(31:30):
Uh, every business has multiplecameras around it.
Witnesses have multiple videosand stuff like that.
You've got a really good chanceof finding a plate in the
neighborhood because LPRs areall over the place.
So you just look at the timeframe.
Oh, it happened around 1:30 and140 a.m.
So you go back to the LPRs andsee what's scanned in the area.

(31:52):
Now you've you're getting leadson everything.

SPEAKER_00 (31:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (31:56):
So if you're getting 10 cases in a day and you've got
400 leads because everybody'sgot something, how are you ever
going to get through a case?

SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
Because now you have more data than you've ever had.
Right.
You've got the best, the best ofa disaster that you could ever
get.
You have a huge problem.
It's a good problem to have.

SPEAKER_07 (32:18):
But it's not a good problem to have because one of
the things in police work is youshall follow up on all leads.
Like that's a general order.

SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
Well, and you're you can get and the reason why that
happens is court cases.

SPEAKER_07 (32:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
And and there's some hard and fast rules about
discovery, and you're gonna getcaught up when you had stuff in
your hands that you didn't acton, and it can be just literally
human error.
Yep.
Right.
But you're gonna get caught upin that because it's somebody
else's job, defense attorney, tofind every single one of those.
Luckily, a good DA is gonna seethat ahead of time.

SPEAKER_06 (32:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
But dealing with the inf the amount of information is
not necessarily overload, it'sjust a very rich environment uh
that you're dealing in a casefolder now, and now your case
holders are slowly transitioningto a case file that is digital.
This is where I love being whereI'm at now because I experienced

(33:13):
all those things too, and I kneweverybody else that did.
And as even before I left thepolice department, I mean,
literally, detectives are on theway to a scene and they're
saying, I need this video off ofour cameras, these things off
our LPRs, I'm gonna need adrone, I'm gonna need for crime
scene work for our overflightsand stuff.
They're calling all this techin.

SPEAKER_06 (33:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
On the way to the call.

SPEAKER_06 (33:34):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
And this one major crime sergeant, he and I talked,
well, he I wouldn't answer thephone sometimes, or I just hand
it over because I knew see hisname, I would just put on a
speaker.
And Sarah would pick it up andshe would talk to him.
And so he would already tell mewhat he's already running
through, and I would say, okay,I'm a moy.

(33:56):
You know, and then I wouldwrangle those things.
The wrangling now of all thosepieces now is doing what what I
do now.

SPEAKER_06 (34:05):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (34:06):
And that's taking all of that massive amount of
information and getting it downto usable stuff, yeah.
And getting it down to the stuffthat floats to the top fastest.
And so there you're gonna find,okay, we're looking for this.
Okay, we need a red car.
We need a guy named Nick drivesa red car.

(34:27):
That's not a lot.
Yes, it is.
Yep.
It is in my world.
Yep.
Okay, it is, it is my in myworld, that's a minute and a
half of work to come up withsomething I'm starting to get
traction on.

SPEAKER_06 (34:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
So now where you've got 150 cars that went by the
LPR cameras around an apartmentcomplex during the, you know,
because you're timing off a 911calls or somebody calling in or
something.
There's usually some timestampusually is out there for a lot
of the, especially the worst ofcrimes.
And so you're working aroundthat, you're gathering all that
data.
Now, how do we sift through thisquickly and get to the best of

(35:02):
that?
Okay.
That's part on the ground.
None of what I do is ever goingto take the place of a
detective.
Right.
None of it.
We just take a detective andmake them heroes all the time.
That's right.
And uh, some of it is there wasa quote by uh a customer of
ours, and we've all heard theterm, you know, garbage in,
garbage out and data andinformation and stuff.

(35:24):
It's like he he said it, andthis just was the quoting this
person garbage in, gold out.
Yeah.
Okay, because that's the siftingprocess.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So you get tons, not garbage,but it's just a volume, and then
getting the gold out of itquickly.

SPEAKER_07 (35:40):
Yeah.
That's the old school way ofpolicing.
It's uh for those the garbageterm is for if you don't know,
your garbage is free reign onceyou put it out to the roadway.
And police for the longest time,if we got desperate, we would go
through your garbage.

SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
Oh, I did garbage runs.

SPEAKER_07 (35:56):
Yeah, and we would find gold.
Yep.
But garbage in, gold out.
So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 (36:01):
So your your mountain of data uh and how fast
you can move through it, andthat's that's the new kind of
almost frontier in lawenforcement.
Yeah, is we've got all thesesensor systems, and they're just
gonna continue building indifferent ways, and there'll
there'll be flex and how thoseappear and what they can do over
time.

(36:21):
But if you look at kind ofwhat's out there for gathering,
see that's the interesting partabout, and then Sonai's part
being with Peregrine is we don'tactually gather the stuff.
We do, right?
The officers are the officers,the sensors, all those other
companies and tools do all ofthat.
We take all of it with a lighterfootprint.
Nobody ever screams about youknow us because we're just

(36:43):
taking and synthesizing thatstuff into usable pieces of
digestible data for people tolook at and figure out this is
our guy, this is not our guy.
So it's a nice spot to be in onwhere I'm at now because this
gets better and better andbetter and it and it gets better
fast.
Like we have a platform that's II wouldn't say ever finished,

(37:06):
right?
But if I tell you this is whatit can do, it can do 100% of
that when I present it to youthat day.

SPEAKER_06 (37:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:12):
Six months and a year from now, it will do even
more.

SPEAKER_06 (37:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
We just don't ever stop developing.
And so I look at what we can donow for an agency and this
mountain of data and garbage, ifyou want to call it, like the
one chief did.
We can get more gold and we canget it faster.

SPEAKER_07 (37:29):
Yes.
And and that's kind of one ofthe, you know, we'll we're not
trying to pitch you guys, Ipromise you.
I I am always trying to pitch itbecause I want to improve law
enforcement.
And for me, this is one of theways I've been talking about
Peregrine for five, six yearspersonally.
Um, and one of the reasons beingis because that's I the way I
kind of coined it was turn yourshittiest detective into

(37:50):
Sherlock Holmes.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a it's a way to doit.
But my point being, I'm alwaystrying to get the good tools out
there for the public to knowright away.
I don't want you to beblindsided by it.
I don't want you to bemisinformed.
I'm going to tell you how I seeit as a cop and if I think it
oversteps or if it doesn't.
Well, like Chat GPT, forinstance.

(38:11):
Chat GPT is kind of like an opensource version of asking
whatever information you wantabout all the information in the
world.
Well, if I were to flip that anduse it as an analogy of kind of
what Peregrine does and why Ithink all law enforcement
agencies should have it, is nowyou've got your own internal
chat GPT in a way, and it takes,it doesn't take all the

(38:34):
information in the world, ittakes only the information you
own.
Right.
So as a cop, if you're out therelistening, any reports that
we've written, any evidencethat's been collected, any
tickets, tickets that have beenwritten, all of these things, uh
car data.

SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
All the other stuff that comes into your system now.

SPEAKER_07 (38:53):
Yes, all the stuff that we're intaking, rather than
having to have a detective siftthrough it for weeks and months
at end, if that's what they needto do, or crime analyst having
to sift and go through andcompare data and come up with
you know algorithms for you knowcertain statistics they need to
get.
This takes all that, simplifiesit, does it for you and in the

(39:15):
way that you want it to, andboom, there you go.
It's your data.
You know what I mean?
So that's how I try to do thatfor for people on the outside
that are like, what the hell?
He always talks about this shit.
What is he talking about?

SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
It's it is taking the abilities of the people that
you have and giving them a toolthat greatly enhances their
capacity to do things, theirspeed, accuracy, all of it.
And it's not like we're ChatGPTreally in that sense.
We're not using everything outin the other world, we're using

(39:49):
the data that you're gettinginto your system.
Right.
And it's we don't add anythingto it.

SPEAKER_03 (39:59):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
Whereas when you go out with chat GPT stuff, you're
you you it's built that way.
Right.
You're constantly adding andrefining.
We don't add in a billion otherthings that we think might be
relevant.
No, it pulls from your data andyou determine the relevancy.
Like when our screens show uhone thing that we do, just that
just a lift.

(40:20):
And I wish I wish a lot ofsystems just did this out of the
gate, but they don't.
So this is part of why we exist.
Everybody, all the agencies, andmine had it too, and they still
do.
I asked them.
There's a mastername indexthat's got the same guy in there
30 different ways.
Oh, that's right.
Okay, yeah.
We all we've seen this so much.
Yeah, we can go in there andmerge all those.

SPEAKER_07 (40:40):
John Smith S-M-I-T-H, John Smith S-M-Y-T-H
or John Smith Jr.
Zarinsky.

SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
Yeah, you know that's been it's their problem,
child.
They've been in there a lot ofways, right?
And take uh names of drugs,charge titles, all those things
we can merge.
Yeah.
And we do it through a programcalled Match, and it's
algorithms.
And what we do is we basicallygive you one record for Bill

(41:07):
Brzezinski or whatever.
We give one record.
There's probably a BillBrzezinski.
Not me, but we take that onerecord and then we tell you,
hey, this is where we got allthis.

SPEAKER_06 (41:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
Whereas when you get stuff out of the interweb yeah
of a chat GPT, it's hard todetermine where that came from.
And I've even I've even validtry to validate things it did
not validate off a chat GPT.
Yep.
I try and use Chat GPT as a wayfor me to automate things,
tasks, things like that.
But I've asked it things, andI'm like, because I have certain

(41:40):
special knowledge of certaintopics in life, I know that
can't be right.

SPEAKER_06 (41:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
And when I dig into it, I find out, oh, the sourcing
on that's terrible.

SPEAKER_06 (41:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
So if the sourcing is at the agency level and only
there, okay, you know your owndata.
We clean things up.

SPEAKER_06 (41:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:56):
We do not add, we do not strip stuff out and delete
or anything.
We just use models that tell ushow to put records together that
make it even more efficient.
So when you do have BillBrzezinski, you're getting all
of them at one shot, and you canjust say, Oh, I'd like to see
all that.
Oh, I also see that all theseother agencies around me that
have our platform, they've hadhim too.

(42:18):
So now all of a sudden there'sthis bigger window into oh,
okay, there's there he is there.
And you get to validate thattoo, and you can see their files
that show who that is too.
So things like that, these theseuh uh cleanups actually are
really important.
Yeah, because there's there arethere are times when you get
focused on the wrong person oryou can't get out of what I call

(42:39):
a data trap, where you've gotall this garbage you're having
to deal with and you're nevergonna find your way out of it.

SPEAKER_07 (42:44):
Yeah, like like trying to look through cell
phone warrants and you justgoing through uh page after page
after page of stuff that makeszero sense.

SPEAKER_00 (42:54):
You bring up a cool thing that I that I hadn't seen
until I got to the company, butuh before running an Intel
Center, you had people that didthat analysis and you had tools.
The tools didn't relate to yourdata that you had in your home
agency, though.
It just related to the dataitself.
It gave you it could put it on amap.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
But it didn't tell you how itrelates to the millions and tens

(43:15):
of millions of pieces of stuffyou have in there.

SPEAKER_06 (43:18):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
So when it all of a sudden relates to an address,
and now you see all the recordsfor the address and all the
people there, and then all of asudden you're able to move
through this.
Yeah, you see it's it's kind oflike if you go out and you do
some blue water fishing, okay,and if they've got a scope they
can put down, usually they canrun one down about 25, 30 feet

(43:39):
down.
Yeah.
Still, you know, a bright sunnyday, it's still got enough
visibility in there.
There's an entirely differentworld there.
It's the one that's scarybecause you jump off the back of
a boat to cool down and you'rein it, right?
You don't even realize whatyou're in, right?
But it's when agencies start tosee what's really under the
surface, and it's tremendousvolumes.

(44:01):
But it's kind of tough to makethat work, right?
That's I love doing is makingall that that you've just saw
and you're really excited aboutit.
Now what do we do with it?

SPEAKER_06 (44:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (44:13):
This is the dog chasing the fire truck kind of
thing.
I've got it, I don't know whatto do with it.
That's what it was before goodanalytics got involved with
data.
And when you can take that andthen add in sharing and the
ability to communicate moreeffectively with within your
agency and outside.

(44:34):
Uh within your agency, thelarger the agency is, the more
complex that's get that gets.
Uh that's I was stunned at howmuch deconfliction actually
works at the agency level, notoutside the agency.

SPEAKER_03 (44:47):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (44:48):
It does work outside, but there's a
tremendous amount ofdeconfliction that needs to
happen within an agency thelarger it gets.

SPEAKER_07 (44:53):
Yes.
Can you can you kind of go intofor the because people would be
like, what's he talkingdeconflicting?
What's that mean?

SPEAKER_00 (44:59):
It's a way of determining, it's like if you
have suspect A and you'relooking at them in a database,
but nobody else knows you'relooking at them, they're looking
at them for string of robberies.
You're you've got him on anactual homicide.
You're only looking at your guyin your context.
Okay.
This is like somebody saying,I'd like for you to paint a

(45:23):
picture, but I'm only going togive you enough of it to
complete a quarter of it.
Please figure the rest out onyour own.

SPEAKER_06 (45:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (45:29):
Oh, that's horrible, right?
So you have a homicide suspectover here, it's the same as
theirs, but they never knew.
These two never talk.
And you we can all go throughstories about how this doesn't
ever work.

SPEAKER_06 (45:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (45:40):
Now, if you can see, hey, if this person is contacted
in any form by the our agency oranother, like in this case, a
parent agency.
I'm not trying to be toopitch-heavy here.
There's not a lot of examplesout there in the world like us.

SPEAKER_06 (45:55):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
But if you reach over, then you find out that
your next door neighbor agencyover here actually just stopped
that car and has that personright.
And it's happened live, likethis with us, where an agency
has got someone stopped, thedetective gets an alert, they're
able to contact over there andsay, Hey, I actually know who's
driving, I know the rightstrike, but I need the names of

(46:16):
the people in that car reallybadly, but I need you to play it
really cool.
That's what we call that walledoff stop thing.
You know, uh, that was neverpossible.
No, never, uh uh.
Never.
So the you can see when thingsare touched or you know,
something goes live, and you canknow as a detective now things
you never ever could have known.
I mean, it'll come out laterwhen the case for some reason

(46:41):
goes terribly bad in some ways,that the patrol division
contacted a guy six times whileyour detective was working up a
case.

SPEAKER_06 (46:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:50):
Right?
It'll only come out later.
Yep.
Now it comes out live.
Yes.
Everybody knows.
Yeah.
That's just one thin, tinylittle example of what you can
do with good analytics.

SPEAKER_07 (46:59):
And part of and part of the de-confliction is also
safety.
Absolutely.
Officer safety is a big thing.
If I'm set up on a house and Ididn't de-conflict, and all of a
sudden I see my subject that I'mlooking for, and it's for B and
V of a vehicle.
Meanwhile, you're out there,just like you're talking about,

(47:20):
you're watching them forhomicide, and you've got SWAT
coming in.
And I have no clue.
Without the de-confliction,there's a chance that we could
have, you know, cop on copissues going on, or our UC
vehicles are in the area andthey get taken down by other
odds.
Like these things have been inthat car before.
Yes.
So all of a sudden you got abunch of guns pointing at you,

(47:42):
and you're you're the cop andyou're not liking that so much,
and you kind of in front of thehouse.
Yep, exactly.
So these are things that we needto do.
We need to pay attention to.
Deconfliction's a big deal.
And yes, we do sound a littlepitch heavy, but the whole point
of the podcast is to improvepolicing.
So this is one of the reasonswhy I preach this stuff just

(48:02):
like I do jujitsu so much, is Ithink it is a I think it's a
fast fix.
That in in a in a world whereeverybody wants instant fixes, I
this is one I can offer you.
This is one I can tell you frommy own personal experience will
give you an overnight change.

SPEAKER_00 (48:19):
If in the agencies that we deploy in, and now
there's more than ever becausenow we're national, yeah.
Uh it was this is a company thatwas very focused on the West
Coast for a while, and which wasa good thing.
Uh, when you try and scaleeverywhere too fast, you can't
control the quality of that.
But the now that we're all overthe place, we get a lot more
feedback all the time, likeevery day.
It's great.

(48:40):
And you hear where people sayum, like there was an agency
that had didn't even have alltheir data fully processed in
with us and moving through theirsystem.
They just had some of it.

SPEAKER_06 (48:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (48:50):
And they had spent two days trying to figure
something out that they neededquickly.
Well, the data went live.
They said, Great, we're on.
They get them a few logins,they're done in minutes.

SPEAKER_07 (49:02):
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
Right?
They now have that piece ofinformation they were just
killing for, right?
They were just really needingit.
And the results happen fast.

SPEAKER_06 (49:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
And it reinforces because you have something that
you have to account for in allagencies, and that's buy-in.
And that's buy-in from all kindsof levels.
Uh so you're buy-in from patrol,buy-in from investigations, buy
in from dispatch, buy in fromadministration.
Buy-in is really how they'reusing it and getting good
outcomes and how they value itfrom that.

(49:33):
Right?
So you want to build things thatyou have that great outcome,
high value, and you have itfast.

SPEAKER_06 (49:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:40):
You can have all of those things, you've got a very,
very powerful tool.
So the and I remember the theone thing I looked at when I
used to buy stuff for an Intel,and believe me, vendors hit you
up night and day.

SPEAKER_02 (49:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:58):
When you looked at what they could offer, what you
did, you tried to put thehighest priority on the things
that touch the most areas.

unknown (50:06):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (50:07):
Right.
So if you get the most bang foryour bike.
Yeah, so if you're you're buyingdrones, oh, I can show you all
the different things that thathas payoff in.

SPEAKER_06 (50:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:14):
You LPRs, same things.
Video, same thing.
But when you have a tool thatsays we can touch everything,
yeah.
Every single thing, and forevery single section of your
department, you figure out whoyou want in, what their
abilities to move through thesystem are, what they can see,
what they can do and not do.
But the entire universe is yoursnow.

SPEAKER_05 (50:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:36):
Everything that comes in.
Okay.
And it touches everything.
From I mean, you could have thisworking for code enforcement,
animal control, the policedepartment, the fire department,
emergency management, yourdispatch center, the DAs are
getting on this.
That's a big one.
The DA is a big one.

SPEAKER_07 (50:53):
So I I kind of give you guys the my big push for the
district attorneys gettingbehind uh technology that
integrates all of the internaldata.
And the reason I'm so big inthat is currently what we're
having a we're going back to theproblem that I talked about
before is too many leads where adetective can't keep up.

(51:14):
They can't physically, theydon't have the time in the day
to follow up on all the casesthat they already have and get
and follow up on all the leadsthat they're getting on these
cases.
Now, what they'll typically dois they'll create this
hierarchy.
They'll say, okay, this is avery important case because the
victim level is much higher thanyou know this person over here
whose car got broken into andthey got their iPhone cable

(51:36):
stolen.
So now they've got thispriority.
Okay, this person over here is avictim of an ag assault.
So they're going through all theleads that they can find.
Well, it just so happens that 15cops showed up to that call.
Now that's 15 body cameras thatthey got to track down, and
that's 15 more um dash camerasthat they have to get.

(51:57):
Okay, sounds awesome, right?
Like I said, too many leads canbe a problem because now we have
30 leads.
The detective's got to downloadall of those, upload it to the
case.
On top of that, he's got to knowwho was out on the scene.
How is he going to possibly dothat if an officer didn't list
themselves as being out there?
Officers, officers are dumbsometimes.

(52:19):
We're we're not dumb.
We're we just we try to do theminimum with having the most
fun.

SPEAKER_00 (52:24):
So don't we?
That was Eric's statement onmine.
Yeah, we tried to I was justtrying to get the most done.

SPEAKER_07 (52:31):
Yeah, yeah.
We try to do the minimum and themost fun.
That's that's just kind of theway it is.
And you'll get officers, they'llhear this high priority call,
and then they want to help thevictim out, they want to get
out, they want to be the guythat saves the day.
So they all get out there andthey realize I don't have a job.
And I don't want to get stuckdoing a job that I don't want to
do, like tagging evidence or uhstanding at a crime scene at a

(52:53):
crime scene tape and not lettingpeople through.
So what will they do?
All right, nobody I'm leaving.
Meanwhile, what they don'trealize is their body cam
caught, you know, maybe aglimpse of the suspect, the
suspect vehicle parked aroundthe corner or something.
And that video doesn't gettagged and uploaded because that
officer thought that he hadnothing to do with it.

(53:15):
And so now the case can bethrown out by a good defense
attorney who finds out thatthose officers were in the area
of the call and didn't disclosethat evidence.

SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
And or they they find out that there was possibly
exculpatory evidence, or allthey have to do is introduce the
fact that there could have beenright.
Yes, that there could be what DAwants to go into trial and find
out that that happened in themiddle of it.
Right.
The yeah, because sometimes it'snot necessarily what you did or
didn't do, it's how someone elsecan portray that.

SPEAKER_07 (53:46):
Yes.
And so now you guys are startingto see the whole picture, is the
the DA is gonna have no choicebut to dismiss the case because
it's gonna look like he wastrying to hide evidence.
And then if he doesn't disclosethat evidence and that's found
out later, there is apossibility he could be
disbarred.
Now it's not it more than likelyit won't be if they can prove

(54:07):
that it wasn't intentional, butit's career limited.
But it's yes, and so you don'twant to have to go through all
that, it's not worth it.
So that's why I'm that's why I'mso preach-heavy on this
particular item we're talkingabout here.

SPEAKER_00 (54:20):
This area technology grabs everything that's going on
and you see it.
And what's cool is when you seeit like in one screen.
Like it's not all there.
You're you're gonna go, it'struncated pieces of it, so you
know I've got all these things,and I'll I'm gonna open that up
and look.

SPEAKER_06 (54:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:36):
Okay, now I know every single officer that was
there because their body worncameras also say that they were
there.
Yes.
And now imagine you have 10officers or more, it's a big
scene, right?
Let's say 20.

SPEAKER_07 (54:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
And that's not uncommon.
You could get 20 cops in ascene.

SPEAKER_07 (54:53):
And air one, and two drones.

SPEAKER_00 (54:56):
And you have all this audio going on in body one
cameras.
If imagine an officer talkingwith somebody, they don't un
they don't know the whole storythat's going on over there.
They're at the edge of thescenes and they're talking with
somebody and they're standingnext to people that are talking
about what happened.
Yeah, they're not even actuallyinterviewing them, but it's all
being recorded.

SPEAKER_06 (55:14):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (55:14):
Let's say Detective A finds out they're looking for
Nick.
I use Nick a lot, Nick.
But they're looking for Nick.
Well, in a system like ours, notto brag, but if it's in a
transcript and you say, lookingfor Nick, every single word
that's that is Nick, it scrubsit is gonna come out of there.

(55:38):
Yeah.
And now you're gonna find outthe officer that was technically
not even in the scene, juststanding amongst the crowd, kind
of visiting the event, actuallygot somebody talking about Nick.
No, he went to his sister's.
Uh, and so someone will get himout of there.
You hear that, that that is thegold.

SPEAKER_06 (55:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:56):
Out of mountains.
Absolutely.
Right?
So when that detective goes backlater, they're gonna have that.
Yeah, it's not gonna beimmediate, but they will have it
because when they plug in, lookfor Nick, this address,
everything that was related to aNick, this address, we know it's
a red car, and this time framefor all cameras, for all other
things, all body on cameras.
All of a sudden, you've got aconversation going on between

(56:18):
some people you don't even haveidentified, but the body on
camera gets them, and now wehave more, right?
It wasn't even at the scene,it's somewhere else.
This is the kind of scenariothat can play out completely
legitimately, right?

SPEAKER_07 (56:32):
And and I think that's kind of this is where I
get into the accountabilityside.
Like everybody wants to holdpolice accountable, everybody
wants their DAs to do better.
Well, help them work together,help them put a rock solid, you
know, case together, and that'swhat this will do.
So again, I try to tell peopleyou want overnight fixes because

(56:52):
that's what everybody wants, isthese overnight fixes?
Well, you got one right in frontof you.

SPEAKER_00 (56:56):
Speed to outcome here is different.
Yeah.
It is this is a very differenttime for agencies when they
climb onto platforms like ours.

SPEAKER_06 (57:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:06):
Speed to outcome is very different.
And the we're just, it's likeI'm very passionate about it
because I see where this goes.

SPEAKER_06 (57:18):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (57:19):
I've seen technology, I understand how it
moves through agencies andpublic safety at large.
This ability is just to begin.

SPEAKER_06 (57:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:30):
The next five years are going to be just damn
impressive.
Just at what you're gonna beable to get done and the
outcomes you're gonna be able toget with the accuracy and speed.
Uh i i if it takes you ten yearsto get to an outcome, that's not
so hot.
If it takes you ten minutes,that's hot.
If you get the right outcomeaccurately, it's even hotter.

(57:53):
So the in a world full of ChatGPT, this is the this is that
side of technology to be on.
Not quite over there.
That's great for figuring outhow to paint your house better.
Okay, that there's many, manythings.
But I mean, you can dig there alot of ways and get good stuff.

SPEAKER_06 (58:11):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (58:12):
But when you're able to mine your own data very
quickly and very accurately,your outcome, your possibilities
are much better.

SPEAKER_07 (58:19):
Yeah, it's it's and it's really probabilities, not a
possibility.
Like, I'm excited because justthat technology in itself, and
I'll kind of flip it on adifferent angle, is medical.
Think about prognosis anddiagnosis and all that stuff
about just taking symptoms thatdoctors, you know, because some
doctors were C plus students,some were A plus students, and

(58:40):
you got the same with withdetectives and police, you know.
So you you've got thistechnology out there uh that can
take all of these differentsymptomatic things that most
people I don't think can reallykeep in their head without, you
know, doing research and doingall the things.
And now you're finding cures andfixes for things so much better.

SPEAKER_00 (59:01):
Because they'll build very custom made products
using AI that is built off ofdata sets.
Like we use large languagemodels, okay, for a lot of the
background this stuff, and it'show we train the system to do
things and how it's learned.
Yeah.
Um, and the one thing we don'tdo is we don't generate.

(59:21):
We're not generative, right?
Right.
We're just using what existsinside of this kind of universe,
not the entire universe, thisone.
And this is the safety net, andthen inside of that, you still
have many more safety nets to gothrough.
You can say, I want I I want tovalidate that.
All of your sourcing should beinstantly available to.

(59:42):
There's and some people takeissue with this.
So Okay.
Now I'm interested.
Oh, now you're all excited aboutit.
When it comes to there's thishot button phrase that comes up
all the time single pane ofglass.
Oh god.
Okay.
I don't know.
I'm kind of done with it.
I hate it.
It single pane of glass actuallyhas a home, but it's a

(01:00:06):
visualization of what's going onat a particular time place and
things like that.
And it may be a window throughthings.
Okay.
It may be that.
It may be an aggregation pointto do things.
But it is not a lens throughwhich you see everything you
have behind you.

(01:00:27):
There's two things.
And there's always sensors aregreat, cameras are great, LPR is
great.
I love all that stuff.
Love drones too.
The cool part is getting all ofthat to work for you better, not
just work.
Okay?
Because right now we're kind ofwe're still in the no, I
wouldn't say infancy.
We're in a little bit headedtowards adolescence of using

(01:00:47):
these technologies moreeffectively.
It's really cool to have a20-foot-wide, you know, laser
projection system in your RTCCand it shows every camera in the
city and every traffic stop,every school, and all that
stuff.
It's a little bit much, but italso requires a headcount.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:10):
Does everybody have the headcount 24 hours a day?
No.
So we know we a big trend isfocusing your hours of
headcount, you know, in 10 or 12or 14 hour days and stuff like
that.
You know, just trying to figureout how to use the humans you
have to the technology.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:27):
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:31):
All right.
Make all of that available toeverybody else all the time.
Okay.
So now and and people, and II'll tell you this, uh when
Peregrine was young, younger, itit's been around for about eight
years now.
It's not a brand new startupcompany.
It's just more national now.
So it's new to people.
But in its younger version, Iremember telling someone, it

(01:01:55):
looks kind of like an analysttool, not a department or an
agency tool.
Well, now that's different.
The the UIs are different, theuser interface is very
different.
Right.
And how you move through thesystem is different, what it
collects is different.
The ability to type in thingsand have it produce results for
you.
Or do it automatically.
All these things have come outof this uh over time.

(01:02:18):
But the the thing that itdoesn't need it doesn't need
someone 24 hours a dayconstantly looking at that to
get it right.
Okay.
This is where the the thing thatshould be the underpinning of
any real-time crime center isthis type of platform.
I would love it to be ours, buthave one.

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:41):
Because all the sensors in the world are great,
but you're gonna have to plowthrough that mountain.

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:48):
Right.
Get something to plow throughthat for you.
That's really when I, you know,I give I tell people, I go, I
didn't understand until I got toPeregrine the depth of the
talent pool.
Yeah.
And the number of Ivy Leagueexperience, not just Ivy League

(01:03:08):
grads, but the backgrounds ofthese people are incredibly
impressive.
What they've done and whatthey're before they got to us
and what they're doing now isalso impressive.
It's not just they got a degreefrom here and there.
These are extremely sharp peoplethat build brilliant systems.
You can't build a box ofsoftware that you get it one way

(01:03:32):
and you have a pull-down menuand a checkbox, and you can't
have that your way.
Uh I I won't use the chain nameof the fast food restaurant, but
there was an advertising uh uhkind of campaign a long time ago
that said you could have it yourway.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:49):
Ah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:50):
It's that way with us.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:52):
I hope that other technologies do it the same way.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:57):
Have it your way.
Yeah.
You know, and I hope that moreof this is what happens for
public safety, emergencymanagement, fire service, and
you name it all over the place.
Uh, we need even the privatesector being able to relate in
ways that make sense toeverybody over to law
enforcement uh without itbecoming confusing on how that's

(01:04:18):
happening.
That's why I'm gonna be clarity.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:20):
That's why I nerd out about this stuff because I I
am constantly trying to improvelaw enforcement.
I'm always looking for the nextlatest and greatest.
I, you know, I want to get myhands on it, I want to try it.
The new taser comes out, I wantto play with that.
If there's a new body cam thatcomes out that does live
translation, I want to mess withit.
Like, I want to mess with allthis stuff and I want to see it

(01:04:41):
for myself because we've seenthings.
I've seen LPRs that have comeout, and I'm like, oh, that
that's awesome.
And then you you get somehands-on experience with it, and
you're like, this is garbage,this is not what they said it
was gonna be.
And you know, we go out to IACP.
I remember when wandering thebooths.
Yeah, I remember a guy wasbragging about their their LPRs

(01:05:02):
in their 60% accuracy rate.
60%.
I was like, That's a hard sell.
I was like, but it was such anew space that nobody knew what
a good pitch was at the time.
And I was I just rememberlooking back and laughing.
I'm like, oh my god, you'rebragging.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:20):
60 60 was good, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:21):
Like that's terrible.
Like, I'm like, I don't, I don'tlike that.
And and there was stuff outthere at the time that was you
know near 90-95% accuracy whenthey first started coming out,
and it's only gotten better andbetter.
And and that is why I thinkwe're having this conversation
that we're having is because ofour excitement of how we can
improve law enforcement and ourit's a need to serve, even when

(01:05:45):
you tie like it never goes away.
I don't think it does.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:48):
It hasn't gone away from me at all.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:49):
I don't my dad's been retired now since 2018.
Um, you've been retired, and itit's he still serves in a
different way.
Now he works for a DA or for adefense attorney.
He works for the enemy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:02):
Here's the thing, I'll say that just one word
about defense attorneys.
The we talk a lot of trash abouthim.
I know, but we don't know.
Can you imagine a world withoutthem?
No, no, no, you didn't thebalance has to be there.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:15):
Everybody's entitled to a proper defense, and I 100%
believe that.
And if they didn't have that,the system would take advantage
of everybody that's out there.
Correct.
So I I'm with them.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:26):
The um, but the I don't see ever again, and I and
I made this comment uh 10 yearsago.
I don't see police departmentsdoubling in size over time.
Though that is done.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:43):
Right.
Okay, that's where forcemultipliers come in.
Yes.
So uh with that, let's let'schange gears a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:52):
I want to I want now you're trapping me somewhere.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:55):
No, no, no, no, no.
I just want so you've gotten uhyou've got a different lens now.
You had you had a lens of whatyou thought police work was
gonna be, and then you went intoit and you lived it.
You lived it for you know what,30 years?
Close to almost to 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:13):
Most of my adult years, no matter how juvenile I
acted.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:16):
Yeah, well, I haven't my sense of humor hasn't
matured since about 14.
Yeah, my turn.
So yeah, farts are still funny.
Watching somebody else get hitin the nuts is still funny.
Um burps are funny.
Uh I love it all.
Um so my uh that hasn't been.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:31):
I'm painfully aware you enjoy all that humor.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:34):
So in that, you've been out of the game.
But you've been around thespace.
Yeah.
So how are you looking atpolicing now as far as training,
as far as recruitment?
Uh like what are you excitedfor?
So this would be a three-parter.
What are you excited for?
What are you fearful of?
And where do you see the futuregoing?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:57):
Um I'm fearful of.
Okay, we'll go with fear gofirst.
And it and I'm and it it's notso much of a fear as concern
because cops never talk aboutfear.
So the uh but I am concernedthat we're moving every month,
year, decade, whatever it is,we're moving closer and closer

(01:08:20):
to the possibility of abifurcated system where you have
more, and we've seen thismovement in the last five years
much more poignantly, uh, ormuch more demonstrably.
The private policing, basically,which is more a bigger push
towards agencies that didn'texist before.

(01:08:42):
It's kind of that concept, okay,there were hospital district
police departments.
Okay, I get it.
They are kind of their ownlittle world and stuff, and
they're very specialized.
I get it.
But there's a push now forhousing additions, huge housing
additions, they have their ownpolice departments, really.
And most of them are actuallymade up now of agencies working
overtime in there.

SPEAKER_06 (01:09:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:02):
Okay, which I get it.
There's an economic model tothis, but there's a lot of other
things that are lost in thistoo.
But I see I'm concerned that Isee where the people that need
us the most are the people thathave the least.

SPEAKER_06 (01:09:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:19):
When you have the system moving towards those that
can afford private policinginside of a HOA where the
entry-level home price is$850,000 or a million, and they
have an actual legitimatelicense, state licensed police
development that has thosepowers.
How they're doing it now or howthey do it sometime in the

(01:09:40):
future, right?
The ability to pay for thoseservices is I I won't say
unlimited, but it's it has nodefinable like limit.
Whereas taxpayer dollars canonly afford so much.
So I do worry that over time weare gonna be split up between a

(01:10:03):
publicly funded law enforcementsystem and a privately funded
one.
And I don't like to see that.
I don't think that's healthy forthe world in general.
I agree.
Uh I I think we should bepushing towards the communities
being able to provide lawenforcement and public safety,
emerging, all of these thingsfrom within.

(01:10:24):
Help, I get it, grants and allkinds of good stuff and support.
But the reliance upon theprofessional model of policing
we're is gonna require that ithappen in that context, not in a
bifurcated system.
Where yeah, they have's and havenots, literally.
I do worry about that.
Uh I understand everybody wantsto be feel safe, but when we get

(01:10:46):
to the point where we'relicensing, you know, uh state
authority, you know, to privateendeavors, uh, or that becomes
there's the the potential forcorruption in that is just too
high.

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:00):
It's already police have so much power.
I mean, it's a it's it's one ofthe things I always would try to
remind rookies or recruits,especially recruits, like having
a badge and a gun uh is anultimate power that needs to be
respected at all times.
Like you you gotta constantlyremind yourself that you have
the authority to take someone'sfreedom away and take basically

(01:11:24):
them away from the life thatthey know.
And that is nobody else hasthat.
And now imagine privatizingthat.
And then you're starting, you'reyou're if you privatize that,
the the level of potentialcorruption in in privatizing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:42):
How do you structure oversight that's effective that
way?
How do you how do you structureyou know standards that are
really enforceable and visible?
Yeah, it's but I I do worry thatwe kind of move that way because
there's been efforts introducedin the last two or three years
to try and do more of this.
I understand people's desire tofeel safe and have their home

(01:12:03):
and neighborhood secure andtheir schools, I get it, okay.
But I do worry that it's animbalance.

SPEAKER_07 (01:12:11):
Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:12):
I I think it's it's not that's this is not about
keeping cops, you know, and andsaving jobs and stuff.
That's not what this is about.
This is about a much larger,bigger picture thing.

SPEAKER_07 (01:12:21):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that we've seenexamples of just I've seen some
shorts and some some reels andstuff on Instagram, for
instance, where you see anofficer working an off-duty gig
for an hoa, and I hear what he'senforcing.
He's not enforcing a law, right?
He's enforcing house rules, thepool rules, right?

(01:12:43):
Yeah, and I'm like, bro, youcan't do that.
And I don't think he'sintentionally getting like
corrupted that way, butbasically what's happening, if
you don't, and if you're outthere listening, you don't quite
understand it.
The officer's job is to enforcethe law, not your house rules.
He can he can ask, he cansuggest, but other than that,

(01:13:06):
he's also just him being therein his uniform is a presence in
itself, a form of intimidationand using the color of law.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:12):
Well, and if you want to play the game of breach
of peace, yeah, hard enough,guess what?
That won't be able availableanymore.
It will, it will go away.
Yep.
That's something you reserve forwhen you have to do it, not when
you elect to do it for all kindsof purposes.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:27):
And and now three kids inside the pool at an HOA.
Yeah, while it technically maybe a breach of peace in some way
or a trespass, how are you howdo you how should you really
take care of that?
Yeah, you know, and then And doyou need a law enforcement
officer sworn and trained by thestate to do that?

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:44):
Yeah.
And then you get run into thewell, they're giving me this
extra money, and I got Christmaspresents are coming right around
the corner, and I want to keepthis job.
And that becomes an issue.
And I would run into thatworking bars.
I didn't I wasn't a guy thatworked bars a lot, but every
once in a while you just you'rehelping out a buddy because he
couldn't make it and you owedhim a favor, or this was my case

(01:14:05):
anyway, and or or you, you know,there's a birthday coming up,
and you're like, okay, I need towork a gig.
Let me ask a friend if I canwork his bar gig for him.
So you you go to work these bargigs, and they're asking you to
enforce these house rules.
And I'm like, no.
And they're like, well, healways would.
And I'm like, well, he's not.

(01:14:27):
Yeah, and he's not here.
So that it happens.
It happens.
The privatization part, and I,you know, and then and then
let's flip the script a littlebit.
What is the benefit to havingthat?
Well, now you've gotenforcement, you've got a cop
that's in a place that regulardispatched patrol isn't.
So you've got an extra body outthere helping the city.

(01:14:49):
It doesn't cost the taxpayersanything because they're there
and I get it.
And they can hopefully squash acall.
So I I see both sides of thehouse.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:56):
And this is why, you know, I remember uh a previous
company where I worked, theythey had LPRs at the entrances
to HOA developments and stuff.
And if you look at the economiesof scale here, it's tremendous.
You're paying, uh I don't know,a few bucks a day for that
little electric minion that'sgonna tell you the stolen car
rolled in at 215 in the morning,it's not there for poetry class.

(01:15:19):
Okay, right?
A minion.
I like that.
So putting an off-duty cop therecosts a tremendous amount every
hour, and they're in one spot,they're paying attention or not,
but they're in one spot, they'renot, they don't know what goes
on at every entrance and sixentrances, right?
So things could happen andpeople roll out and nobody know
any different until the nextday.

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:39):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:40):
Those cameras are extremely efficient, especially
when they do attach out to thepolice department, and then you
can have a law enforcementconvention inside uh an HOA, you
know, and solve some problems.
So I'm okay with the thing thatlike technology that brings law
enforcement to it, but notcomfortable with the idea that
we have little law enforcementuniverses all over the place

(01:16:03):
that have interests that aremotivated by all kinds of
different things that should bein the mix.

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:10):
Yeah.
No, I agree with you on that.
Um, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:13):
I think that's a I think technology is actually a
good leverage here.

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:18):
How so?

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:20):
If those communities are really interested in doing
this, they use technology tobring law enforcement resources
to you when you need it.
Yes.
Instead of I mean, and I thinkthere'll also be, I mean, the
number of communities,communities that can really
afford this as an independententity is pretty thin anyway.
But I worry more about thederivative of that.

(01:16:42):
Uh how we get discount servicesrunning around and doing stuff.
You know, the there is a a goodposition for technology and
security services, technologyand law enforcement, you know,
linking and stuff.
There's there's a nexus that canbe found here.
Yeah.
That's the right balance.
Uh I'd prefer not to see more ofthe uh special district ideas.

(01:17:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:17:03):
That's fair.
Okay.
All right.
Okay, that's so that's fear.
Okay, so we've got um, what areyou excited for and what's the
future?
Oh, excited.
I I mean what do you what areyou seeing today in policing?

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:20):
Where you're just like, this is I I see this kind
of almost a tipping point thatwe're at where we where law
enforcement finally gets it.
They're not showing up, they'renot coming.
Okay, there's only so many we'regonna be able to pull into this
career right now.
Maybe it'll change.
It'll it would I can't see thathorizon line where that change
is predictable at all.

(01:17:42):
So that is also a concern,really.
But the I see them coming tothose root realizations.
I mean, you see agencies jackingup those starting salaries, just
trying to get people in thedoor.

SPEAKER_06 (01:17:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:57):
And not everybody, I mean, I started at 1122 an hour.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:01):
Damn.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:02):
Okay, you've got to really be dedicated to wanting
to do this.
Right.
Not it's not a job, man.
That you've got to really want acareer in this because you've
got to really want to do thisfor a lot of the you know, hard,
deep reasons.
Uh starting at 90 to 100,000 ayear, and I'm talking here in
Texas.
I'm not talking about inCalifornia.
You know, there's there's somewild stuff that goes on there,

(01:18:24):
but for money.
But here, um I get we've got toget them in the door because we
have to be able to be responsivewith a headcount.
I see a point coming wheretechnology is going to really be
able to effectively andethically be able to tilt this

(01:18:49):
balance and get it into theright workable norm.
We aren't there yet.
We're trying to find our way, Ithink, in what is the headcount
now.
Well, technology is moving sofast, we're not exactly sure
where to be.
So a chief has got to hedge hisbets on.
I need humans for right now.
I I I'm not totally bought inover here, but I but I think

(01:19:09):
you'll see this almost deterrentwhere you're gonna see
headcounts are gonna be allowedto go to some point where
they're comfortable because thetechnology is so solid and so
pervasive and safe, yeah, thatthey're they're able to depend
on these things.
And these things could be 10things long, right?
Yeah.
But that's exciting.

(01:19:31):
Yeah.
That we're getting closer tothat point where we're gonna
find this new kind of stasiswhere this is the head count we
need for this community.
And I think that's also a veryindividualized thing.
I do not believe in these onemodel fits all kind of things.
I've I've been part of theworkings of figuring that out
before.
And it matters what you do foryour community, what's important
to the community, what'simportant for the police

(01:19:52):
department, who's doing what inthe police agency, all those go
into the mix of how many peopleyou need.

SPEAKER_06 (01:19:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:59):
And I think that response to crimes will be
different, and I think it willbe more professional.
And I don't mean that it's notprofessional now.
I think when I say that, I meanthere's gonna be an element of
it that is refined and veryeffective and very professional

(01:20:19):
and transparent to everybody andhow good it is.
That's gonna increase.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because the headcount thatyou're gonna get is gonna be
held to a higher standardbecause there's more technology
driving them to better outcomes.
So what they're doing willchange too.
I think the response to crimesis going to change in how that

(01:20:41):
really looks inside the policedepartment and outside.

SPEAKER_06 (01:20:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:45):
Uh so the this is DFR is a good example of how
that can work.
We're we're really early in DFR.
And I think people don't reallyfeel that yet, but I promise
you, we're we're early in it.
Uh, five years can be a hugedifference.

SPEAKER_07 (01:21:02):
I think you're going to see drones in the air all the
time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:05):
All the time.
You're gonna see a pervasive,and I called this out years ago,
that they're you're just goingto see it, and it's gonna be
very normal to hear that littleworm buzz occasionally.
Yep.
And the sometimes it's gonna bedelivering stuff, which I still
don't fully get.
But um I'm all right with it.
I'm I'm good with it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:21:23):
As long as you can get me my little trinkets faster
from Amazon, hey, I'm all forit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:27):
Things we waited for two weeks we gotta have in two
hours now.

SPEAKER_07 (01:21:31):
Yes, you get mad when it takes an 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:34):
The I I ordered a belt and it was ridiculous.
It was not a belt I needed.
It was it's absolutelyridiculous.
I ordered it, they said theyshipped it.
FedEx says it's on the way, it'sgonna drive today.
My uh go figure, I have a ton ofsurveillance cameras around my

(01:21:55):
house.
Figures.
So I'm alerted when FedEx rollsup.
Okay, and the guy goes in theback of the truck, goes back in
the driver's seat and drivesaway.
He didn't have my thing.
Uh I was enraged because it tookmore than two days to get
something that actually wasn'tin stock to my door, and it's

(01:22:16):
gonna take a day longer andarrive today.

SPEAKER_07 (01:22:18):
From another country.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:19):
Oh, no, no.
But it's still just what weexpect now as far as immediacy,
yeah.
And so the and DFR delivers adegree of immediacy that we can
it's almost kind of like we cansee the potential in it.
It's doing stuff and it's doinggood stuff.
Um, but as far as outcomes andthe pervasiveness of its

(01:22:40):
abilities, its impact, I likewhere I'm at.
Not just not just in paragraph.
I love manna.
Love the company.

SPEAKER_06 (01:22:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:50):
The technology in this area and what we can do
with what the data we have andthe more data that we're going
to get and being able tosynthesize these things and move
quickly to what are uh impactfuloutcomes.
This is really important.

SPEAKER_06 (01:23:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:08):
And these are the things that I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_06 (01:23:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:11):
The the next five years is gonna be just Eric, I'm
gonna be very, very busy.
Yeah.
Uh I am.
Um the uh before I when I gotout of law enforcement and I
went to the the first companythat I went with, I was in
consulting.
Really, what I was it was atranslator between tech and
police, those guys and lawenforcement.

SPEAKER_07 (01:23:33):
Yeah, trying to teach the dummies just how this
cram works.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:37):
They had never been introduced to this kind of
stuff.
And so then then the technologyplatforms became more and more
platforms that we're talkingabout.
And so, but it wasinterpretation and
conversations, yeah.
And the now I'm actually in asales position.
I don't know if I told you thatI'm actually doing sales where
I'm at.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:57):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:57):
Yeah, which was a shift.
I never would have considered itbefore.
Uh the companies objectively,it's very unique, very special.
I never ever was going to gointo sales.

SPEAKER_06 (01:24:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:11):
I love this driver's seat.
I I am closer to the lawenforcement people than I was
even in consulting.
I'm more intertwined with theirdepartment and their people.
And I'm more intertwined intotheir outcomes.
It's not me, it's not my companythat's ultimately getting the
outcome.
It's a woven thing together.

(01:24:32):
Yeah.
People use the name partnershipall the time.
Oh, okay.
I I see it kind of how you weavetechnology and the right
partners and companies in.
That's your tapestry you're in,right?

SPEAKER_06 (01:24:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:43):
So how you weave that together and how you don't
is really important.
And I like being that close towhat I'm doing now.
Uh in what we're doing.

SPEAKER_07 (01:24:54):
Yeah, I I found, I have found personally, and a lot
of the things that I I'm reallyinto in law enforcement that
help me.
I don't I don't look like it'san iPhone.
I have zero relationship withApple.
Nothing.
I could give a commodity.
I could give a shit less.
You'll buy another one a yearfrom now.

(01:25:15):
Yeah.
And probably an iPhone.
But I am I am married into itbecause of just how long I've
I've had an iPhone since theycome out.
Yeah.
Because it was the first of whatit did.
I was a I'm a tech junkieanyway.
I like that stuff.
And it it does what I need it todo, but there's no relationship
there.
Versus, like kind of what you'rereferring to and what we're
we're we're talking about withthat life of service, these

(01:25:39):
companies that I've gotten justin ingrained with first two is
another one.
Uh I Naraj, the guy that'sright.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:48):
When you talk to him, yeah, you feel the energy
from him and the passion he hasfor it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:25:52):
Right.
And and it when I get behind thetech in my my absolute drive to
serve, like that, that'severybody's got their drives.
Like, you know, some some peopleare food driven, whatever.
Like I am service-driven.
That's just how I'm wired.
That's why I like to teach.
That's why I like to do what Ido on this, because I feel like

(01:26:13):
I'm helping.
I always want to help people injust as many different ways as I
can.
So then when I get intocompanies like we'll go with
first two, there's that thatdopamine drive or whatever you
want to call it that I getbehind because I'm I'm not even
at work and talking about them,and I see what they do, and I

(01:26:34):
know it's helping.
I know it's helping otherpeople.
So it goes to be like the samething with where you're at in
your career, is you you wentfrom serving, and then you've
got that unknown area whereyou're like, ah, is this gonna
and now you're in sales in aspot that you probably never
wanted to be or thought youwould be until it hit that
service, that drive for service.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:56):
And for me, I mean, okay, uh, I mean, I'd been on
the other side of the desk.
I had been being pitched to allthe time.
Yeah.
And so I know what I don't know,the slide deck, just pull my
eyes out of my head.
But the um the uh having aconversation or relationship

(01:27:16):
with someone, even if itultimately doesn't work out, it
may be two years from now.
Right.
And I remember I remember thesame poor sales rep that called
me from a company over and overand over again.
And it was just, I was so busy.
I didn't have so finally I said,Okay, you you are absolutely
gonna get shot.
I'm gonna ask somebody else towork with you on this that's

(01:27:38):
actually really gonna be more ofan end user of this in a in a
property crimes unit.
Yeah, let me organize it there.
And it still didn't work out.
Okay.
Relationship was still there.
I ended up working with thatperson later.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:52):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:54):
They remembered it.
Yeah, and they remembered thatit was there was a relationship
there that they managed toestablish just over phone calls,
right?
Because they didn't pitch me,they just they were persistent
in trying to just get some timewith me.
I couldn't do it because itwasn't something that my unit
really needed because I had thatkind of rule.
If it's just touching one thing,go talk to that unit or see if

(01:28:16):
they got budget for it, orsomething like that.
I need to touch large areas.
So the relationship thing isreally important to me.
And uh it's I I still likehanging out with my blue family,
yeah.
You know, as weird as they canbe.
The uh and what's odd is alsothere's getting away from the

(01:28:38):
mic, sorry.
Um, I know you're doing thistrying to keep up with me moving
around.
Oh, you're fine.
The um it's funny, the the otherthing that happens when you
leave law enforcement, uhespecially after a long time,
you retire, you know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:28:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:53):
The six months later, and I hope it's like this
for everybody.
Six months later, it's adifferent lens that you look at
at what you were doing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:07):
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:09):
It's a very interesting uh kind of point of
reflection on what you did.
The how you look back at thingschanges.
And the what's you you get alittle more honest with yourself

(01:29:33):
about what worked, what didn't,what how you did.
Not so much about how othersdid.
We have all had people that justdid not cross our paths well,
yeah.
Um but the the relationshipsthat I had in law enforcement uh

(01:29:55):
kind of get sustained in a waywith what I'm doing now.
And so So it's not just sales,it's it's being part of it.
And I'm no, I'm here, right?
Here's that, you know, orbit.
I'm a little outside of it.
But it when you can serve it,awesome.
When you don't serve it well,shame on you.

(01:30:17):
Yeah.
You know, uh, but and and thoseare you know, you see that in
different companies or differenttypes of industries where
they're commodities.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:26):
A phone.
Who do you know at Apple?
Not a damn person.
Not a damn person.
Yeah.
Who was who sold you that phone?
Not a club.
Nobody, nobody, right?
Yeah.
Right.
The but it's one of those thingsthat it's you gotta have a
phone.
That's it.
It's a commodity, you're buyingit.
Whereas in law enforcement, Ithink the things that we do, be
it drones, LPRs, video cameras,the things that I do with with

(01:30:50):
data, these are things thatabsolutely require a
relationship.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:56):
Uh, because if you it we're sticky in a way, you
don't go through the effort withus.
When we show up, we bring peopleand we build things out in a
very almost bespoke manner.

SPEAKER_06 (01:31:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:11):
That you don't decide, yeah, it's great, but
I'd really like to have a newfleet of patrol cars next year.
So we're gonna do that.
It doesn't happen.
Yeah, right, because we becomehighly valuable.

SPEAKER_06 (01:31:22):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:23):
Well, shame on you if you don't stay with that
agency and stay close with them.

SPEAKER_07 (01:31:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:28):
They're counting on you.

SPEAKER_07 (01:31:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:30):
Right?

SPEAKER_07 (01:31:30):
Absolutely.
And and one of the things thatI've noticed too in these types
of these specific types ofcompanies that do this type of
thing.
Um, Axon, you first two, y'all,uh, you know, these companies
that get they get so ingrainedin a way that they're the police

(01:31:50):
department's victories are yourvictories.
Like you get so invested whenyou find out we caught this, you
know, pedophile that we wouldn'thave caught without what you
guys were doing.
But it was y'all's teaching andcoaching that helped us figure
this software out or figure thispiece of equipment out to get us

(01:32:11):
to that point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:11):
That's who we want to be.
That's what every company shouldwant to be.

SPEAKER_07 (01:32:14):
It's not that, you know, you become, I like to say,
you guys become the Chick-fil-A,and that's that's what I look
for.
I look for any piece of techthat I'm getting or any piece of
gear that I'm getting for policework.
I want that company to be theChick-fil-A of what they're
doing.
Uh, you can see that case rightover there that I got.
I was looking to buy a pelicancase for my equipment for going

(01:32:38):
to the conference.
I wanted something that wasgoing to protect what I had.
And so I'm like, all right, letme get this pelican case.
I'm looking.
It had these variations that Iwasn't quite looking for, so I
was trying to see if I could getspecific.
So I call.
I was treated like a number.
And I'm like, damn.
So I started looking up.

(01:32:59):
I looked up uh pelican umcompetitors.
I typed that in.
So I looked that up and uh founda company in Texas called
Condition One.
I was like, all right, let mesee.
Over half the cost, less for thesame type of case I was looking
for.
And but it the site was a littleconfusing for me at the time.

(01:33:22):
I was trying to figure, youknow, the configuration I was
like, if I click this, is itmine?
So I call, call them up, answer,treated me.
Got a human.
It got a human, treated me likea Texan.
Uh and they're like, Yeah, we'rebased right out of Texas, you
know.
He's like, hey, if get it, tryit out for a month.
You don't like it, send it back,no problems.

(01:33:42):
I was like, holy, like, okay,cool.
End up getting the case, loveit.
Send them a review, let themknow.
They ended up sending me acoupon for the next case that I
get, like 25% off or somethinglike that.
Not a huge deal, but it's theeffort that they took to get
behind what I did.
And they wanted it, it wasn'tlike a survey monkey, how do you
like our product?

(01:34:02):
It was somebody that actuallyreached out and said, How do you
like our product?
So far.
And I'm like, this is amazing.
So that is one of the thingsthat I think when you're in a
company like a Peregrine or likea first to or like an axon, the
quality assurance of gettingbehind what you're doing, not
just the product, but itsresults.
What is it doing?

(01:34:22):
Are you are my trophies yourtrophies?
I want them to be.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:26):
Like, yeah, but I I draw a distinction there because
I've seen companies use a lawenforcement agency's efforts as
and they can't.

SPEAKER_07 (01:34:34):
Oh, as well.
Yes, okay.
Fair, fair, fair.
Yeah, I do recommend it.
I do, yes, that's not what Imean.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:41):
They need to claim only the victory of the agency
because if you're really good,everything else is perfectly
clear.

SPEAKER_07 (01:34:49):
Yes.
And and and that's like for meas a cop, I like to send those
victories to the company.
Hey, thank you guys.
This is what you helped getdone.
I want the person that talks tome, you know, my representative
that talks to me from thecompany, I want them to know
what they helped do.
Yeah, I think that's important.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:06):
And that's it's it's an interesting, you know.
I I watched this with a previouscompany and how the feedback
loop kind of worked.
And with Peregrine going fromWest Coast, yeah, and some
others, but I mean, dramaticallycovering the US, you know, and
heading across all states now.
The inflow of what we call thewe have a program called Slack,

(01:35:26):
and that has a channel in there.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it has a it has stuff inthere about you know wins.
And that's a lot of places wherewe get feedback.
Yeah.
We make sure everybody in thecompany knows that hey, you're
you're doing this with them.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:42):
You know, the uh if you sell the tires that go on
the cars, I'm not sure that hasthat kind of mission feel to it,
right?
Right.
Okay, I get it.
But the the amount of just uh Iguess satisfaction, you want to
call it that in a broad term, toworking in a company that

(01:36:03):
supplies the tool, gives thetraining, and uh keeps giving
them more.
Yeah, uh it's very satisfyingwhen they win with our stuff.

SPEAKER_06 (01:36:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:14):
Because I can't win on the field anymore.

SPEAKER_07 (01:36:16):
Yep.

unknown (01:36:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:18):
It's if you can't win on the field, it's another
way to serve.
The sideline is a good spot.
You can still do things there.
So the uh winning from you know,jumping out of cars and getting,
you know, hamstring pulls.
I I I'm okay with you knowletting some of that slide now.

SPEAKER_07 (01:36:37):
You know, at our age, yeah, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:39):
I mean, I've still got two torn shoulders that have
not been repaired from my lawenforcement.

SPEAKER_07 (01:36:46):
Stem cells, brother.
Stem cells.
Stem cells.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:48):
Yes.
Yeah, I've got cartilage torn inboth shoulders.

SPEAKER_07 (01:36:51):
My dad had seven surgeries.
Um he had at a point in hiscareer, he had I'll give you the
short version of a long story,but he chases a stolen vehicle,
they all bow out, he catches theslowest one.
Slowest one happens to be likesix foot seven, five, you know,
five hundred pounds.
Yeah, and my dad is five footseven and maybe 160 pounds at

(01:37:14):
the time.
So he was a feisty guy.
Um, they end up fighting overhis gun, da-da-da.
But the guy finds a piece ofcement that had broken off of a
like, you know, man-made creektype thing in a park.
Yeah.
And um, he just destroys me,hits my dad in the head, hits
him in his shoulder severaltimes to where it dislocated and

(01:37:37):
fractured all the stuff in hisshoulder.
Um, goes through his career,shoulder problems, shoulder
surgery after shoulder surgeryafter shoulder surgery.
That's a hard thing to say.
Uh, so he has all of those andnothing.
All it did was limit hismobility, didn't really help the
pain.
Uh, gets the stem cells.
I'm not gonna say he got 100%recovery, but the pain's gone,

(01:38:00):
mobility function was way up.
Yeah, um, and so now, ever sincethen, I'm like I'm at the point
now where I wake up three orfour times a night.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:07):
It sucks.
I got tingling in my fingers andstuff.
It's just it doesn't get anybetter, but it's just cartilage,
so it doesn't fix itself.

SPEAKER_07 (01:38:13):
Or the diabetes, one of the two.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:17):
That no.
But yeah, um, yeah, the but ifyou can't play on the field,
it's a good thing to be able tosupport those that are.

SPEAKER_07 (01:38:27):
Yeah, yeah.
And I I think it's important.
Like um, I had this is veryrare.
This does not happen a lot.
I don't know why it's happenedwith me in my life.
I have four AED saves.

SPEAKER_05 (01:38:41):
Wow.

SPEAKER_07 (01:38:42):
Yeah.
What are the odds?
Four.
Yeah.
Two were cops.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38:48):
Wow.
That's even rarer.

SPEAKER_07 (01:38:50):
Right.
And it wasn't because they wereshot or anything like that.
It was heart episodes.
That'll happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And having that, like every timeI had a save with an AED, I sent
a letter to the company.
I was like, like the best.
Yeah.
When you get saves, stuff likethat.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:39:08):
It's and it's nice to see, and it just picks up the
volume in that channel, thatSlack channel, just keeps
picking up.

SPEAKER_07 (01:39:16):
The more popular you all get, more people.

SPEAKER_00 (01:39:18):
And it's like, you know, if you're selling it,
you're in contact with them allthe time.
I think there's, and especiallyif you're someone with my
history, not everybody like wedon't have, not all of our
salespeople are former lawenforcement.
Right.
Right.
Um, so our what we get out of itis probably a little different,
not entirely, but uh maybe ourlevel of satisfaction is a

(01:39:40):
little different.

SPEAKER_01 (01:39:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:39:41):
You know, or how we feel about it.
But the uh it's a little, it's Idon't know, there you you just
can't there's only so manyplaces in the universe you can
put yourself that you get toserve indirectly but closely.

(01:40:05):
So I mean the people that aredoing the background, I mean,
these guys that code this stuff,that do all the background
stuff, the people that work withlike my agency that I retire
from is about to have all this.
And I I've just set up themeeting so that that's our
kickoff meeting where ourdeployment specialists come in
and they become part of thefamily fully because they're

(01:40:27):
gonna spend months, three monthsworking with them, building the
whole thing everywhere.
Well, when they get wins, thoseguys know it.
Yeah, you know, they go, I builtthat, you know.
Yeah, I made that, you know.
So the uh it's I don't think thethe people that are on the line
building the Chevy Tahoe policepackage may get the same
satisfaction as someone likethat's using tools that are kind

(01:40:50):
of frontline, like in adifferent way.

SPEAKER_07 (01:40:51):
Yeah, so I get that, you know, it's just a distance,
I think.
Yeah, like Star Chase or theGrappler or yeah, like I love
the grappler videos, those arefantastic.
I see those every time, and I'mjust I I kind of try to think of
myself as what if I was one ofthe guys that helped make that
thing or got it out there, likeI would be pumped.

SPEAKER_00 (01:41:08):
I'm like, yeah, I helped it.
It's like uh the the drone guys,you know, uh I I I'm a uh and
I'm a fan of Skydio.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:41:19):
That arm thing that they give.

SPEAKER_00 (01:41:20):
Oh man, I'm a fan of that.
I'm a fan of SkyDio.
Yeah, uh I just like drones.
I have been for a while.
I love drones, yeah.
And and I see the future withthis.
Um the I'm a fan of theirs.

SPEAKER_06 (01:41:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:41:32):
They're and I and I guess it's part of the reason
why Peregrine is also that's thesame type of ethos.
It's this, okay, we've got adrone.
You don't stop there.
Right.
You're constantly innovating,you're constantly moving the
needle further out.
Yeah.
Right.
And they do it, they do it well.
And I love watching their stuff.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:41:51):
Uh grapplers and stuff.
The TED Talks like that Skydioputs out there.
Like it's not a TED talk, it'sjust them putting on a demo, but
you're like, this is awesome.
Like the way they present it.
I saw the the most recent one.
Okay, so we're gonna tech nerdout here for a second for those
listening, but the most recentone that I saw Skydio do, and
they're not a paid sponsor oranything like that.
This is just me being a policenerd.

(01:42:11):
Um, all of a sudden a Teslacomes out, a Tesla truck comes
out.
And I don't know, there's lovetra Tesla trucks or hate 'em, to
me, as a kid, uh 80s child,that's how I pictured a future
truck.

SPEAKER_00 (01:42:24):
We used to draw things like that.
Look at that.

SPEAKER_07 (01:42:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it it is not an impressivepiece of uh machinery by any
means as far as aesthetics, butwhen I pictured a future truck
as a kid, that's what Ipictured.
And so I automatically like it.
Uh, you know, and then thestainless steel with kind of the
DeLorean look, you know, to it.
So that pumped me up as well.
So now you've got anall-blacked-out Tesla truck

(01:42:48):
coming out, and this arm deploysout of the back, like not just
any like robotic arm.
I mean, it is like a futuristiccan manipulate and move in any
direction.
It brings out this drone out theback.
And you look at this drone andit doesn't look like a drone
that you've ever seen.
It's a fixed-wing drone, butit's launching off of this arm
because the arm's scooting backin a way to like project it in

(01:43:12):
the air like it's a NASA missionall of a sudden, and then it
just shoots straight up in theair, takes off.
It's got hours of flight timewhere I just told you guys
earlier, most drones are like 20to 40 minutes, and here you got
this new piece of technology andthe way that they present it,
and then they show it fly.
Yeah, I mean, I was the thepolice nerd in me was screaming.

(01:43:33):
I thought it was I thought itwas cool, and I love that shit.
So, yes, when you talk aboutSkyDio, I have been singing
their praises.
I've never even used them, I'venever used Sky Dio, so I can't
even speak from personalexperience, I can just speak
about the way they present theirstuff and they never stop.
And and yeah, and they neverstop.

SPEAKER_00 (01:43:52):
That's I like that same feeling, the ethos of my
company is we don't stop.
Yeah, you know, we we do, we'rebig on when we and and Skyo is
this way too.
This is the product that we'reselling to you.
It's not promises, it's notsomething that it might become
someday.
This is here you go.
Same way here.

(01:44:12):
Now, that's just the beginning.
Yeah.
Here it is, it's finished, it'sexactly what you want the way
you want it, and but hang on, itgets better.
We're building more, you know,and we're gonna improve that
constantly because there's noend to that, you know.
And the more agencies bring inmore data from the more sensors
and tight and sources ingeneral, the more we can do for

(01:44:34):
them.

SPEAKER_06 (01:44:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:44:34):
The uh it's it is nice not being in the hardware
side of things.
Yeah, that's a hard life.
Yeah.
But uh the all of the thingsthat I heard from the outside
about software.
Oh my god.
Yeah, every yeah, nothing's everfinished, it's always half banks
and stuff.
It's incredible to landsomewhere on the sales side, no

(01:44:56):
less, that I know that when I'mthere and I say, this is what we
can do for you.
We're gonna deliver on that.
And then wait until next year.
Yeah.
Okay, wait for the updates onthis.

SPEAKER_07 (01:45:07):
You know, let's talk about something that I think is
overlooked in law enforcement.
When we get me, let's say I weget Peregrine or whatever, and I
start to learn it, or or we getSkyDio, or we get any of these
things.
I think one of the things thatcops lack um and don't do enough
is when they have an issue, theydon't relay it to the companies

(01:45:32):
to improve.
I think that that is a criticalthing that officers need to
start learning to getcomfortable with.
So maybe you can take this backto Peregrine and any other
companies that are out therelistening.
Give us an easy avenue to sendin issues.
Yeah.
Especially like when they'rehappening.
Like that's that's a big deal.
Because you'll get uh a piece ofsoftware or or a piece of tech,

(01:45:56):
and then um they do an update,and you're like, awesome, cool,
new update, but it makessomething fall apart on the back
end, and you're like, what thefuck?

SPEAKER_00 (01:46:06):
Like these.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I just did an iOS 26update, and nothing in my world
is right anymore.

SPEAKER_07 (01:46:12):
Right.
So my point being is that inthat officers, if you're
listening to me out there, oneof the things that you need to
start getting comfortable withis reaching out to these
companies when you have anissue, when you run into
something, or if you have anidea to improve it.
Hey, we really like how thisdoes, but if it did this one
little extra thing, it wouldreally help us out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:46:32):
Well, and that's oddly, without I and it wasn't
by design or anything, but how Iactually ended up retiring and
going into the private sectorwas the fact that I became a
huge feedback loop for the LPRcompany that I contracted with
uh into my Intel Center.
I and and I've known others thathave done this too, where you're

(01:46:52):
not trying to just help them,you're trying to help your
brothers and sisters and lawenforcement all over the place.

SPEAKER_04 (01:46:56):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:46:56):
And you're saying, hey, uh, I don't know why, but
that fire engine keeps comingoff and logging as a motorcycle.
And then you work a little bitcollaboratively with them with a
few phone calls, you realizeit's the large wheel with the
big center hub.
For some reason, optically andthe algorithmically, it sees a
motorcycle tower.
Right.
Oddly.

(01:47:16):
Yeah.
Right?
Because and it this is part ofthe learning curve of being an
operator or practitioner oftechnology in the law
enforcement field and learningto work with your vendor.

SPEAKER_06 (01:47:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:27):
And and I I also preach this a lot.
And it was before I ever gotinto private work.
I realized the value of therelationship that and what both
sides get out of it when therelationship is is very good.
Yeah.
The uh how you treat yourvendors is important.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:47:42):
And what do what do we end up doing as cops?
Ah, shit doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 (01:47:45):
Yep.

SPEAKER_07 (01:47:46):
And they stop using it.
I mean, the the as hard as it isto get buy-in for officers on
something, you can lose it in aninstance.
And the second you lose it isvery hard.
And that's why I am listening.
If you're an officer and you'relistening to this right now,
don't give up because you runinto an impasse or something
that you get frustrated with orwhatever.

(01:48:08):
Reach out to the company,develop.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:10):
Find your customer advocate, find your customer
support, find your sales rep.
Okay.
And the more pervasive and morekind of all-encompassing a
product is, the more likelihoodthere is that you'll know who
these people are.

SPEAKER_06 (01:48:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:22):
If they're not, somebody at your department is a
point of contact for them.
Find them and tell them.
Yep.
Because a lot of thesecompanies, I mean, I the one I'm
in now is very, very interestedin hearing back.

SPEAKER_07 (01:48:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:36):
And in that sense, it is a partnership.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (01:48:40):
It's a symbiotic, mutually beneficial thing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:42):
Yeah.
And we do a lot to getinformation to find out ways
that we could improve or changeor grow the product in ways that
people need it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48:51):
And but to hear back, good or bad, doesn't
matter.
We're very thick skinned.
Tell us how it's working foryou, you know.
And this goes for all technologyplatforms.
Yeah, that's that's and itdoesn't need to be a LinkedIn
post in front of the world.
You know, it doesn't, you don'thave to do that.
God, it can just be an email,you know.
Um, the LinkedIn kind of drivesme crazy with some of the stuff

(01:49:14):
on there.
Just yeah.
Uh, but I'm a big user of it, Ilove it.
I mean I I'm on I I readLinkedIn all the time, and it's
almost kind of like a newschannel for me for the industry
itself.
Uh, but I also get to see howother agencies are using
different technologies andthings like that too.
So um, and I keep track ofpeople that I know, you know,
and how what they're saying.

(01:49:34):
But the but feedback is isincredibly important.
Having the relationship, it'snot just a money exchange,
especially when like with ourcompany, we touch everything you
want us to touch in your agency.
And then everybody that theagency wants to have to be able
to play ball with that getsallowed to do it.

(01:49:54):
So we're very ingrained in theagency.
So the relationship's reallyimportant.
The feedback is important.
Uh, it's not a you're buying ita commodity, a thing, you know,
it's not like you're buying juststuff, supplies for the year,
and you could go get it to someother vendor.
We're special in that way.
We we're unique and we're verytailored, and so we want that

(01:50:18):
strong relationship, even whenit's not good news, but we still
want it, you know, it's right,it's incredibly important.

SPEAKER_07 (01:50:25):
And I this brings up a good transition.
I think for other officers outthere listening, whether you've
been a cop five years, twentyyears, whatever it is, if you
find yourself where either thejob is not as desirable for you
as it once was, the job's notwhat you thought it was going to

(01:50:45):
be, you're close to retirement.
I kind of want the the way Ikind of want to end this is I
want I kind of want you to gothrough the what it is like,
what to expect for the officerswhen they switch over from law
enforcement to the privatesector.
I don't think we ever reallytouch on that enough, or if any,

(01:51:06):
and I want officers to know thatthere is either light at the end
of the tunnel, uh, or there'sthere's other ways to serve, or
like, you know, however you wantto view that, but transitioning
to private sector afterwards,you can start fostering that
years before you better be aboutto go get out.
Yeah.
So can you kind of go down thatwhat you recommend?

(01:51:28):
And and I want people to I wantthem to know what their options
are.

SPEAKER_00 (01:51:31):
I I talk to probably 20 to 30 people a year, just
guessing.
Uh and I don't mean justchatting on a chance meeting at
IECP or something like that.
I talk to people like in depthon the phone, they'll reach out,
or someone will usually it's areferral.
Hey, there's an officer overhere, he's thinking of you know
getting out.
It doesn't fit his home life orwho knows what else, or end of

(01:51:53):
their career.
They they they're at 29 yearsand they really want to go do
something else.
And so I I'm glad to have thechat.
I really am.
Um part of it is qualifying whatthey want, what could they be
passionate about, what will feedthem.
Okay, it's if it's if somebodyjust says, I just need something

(01:52:15):
that pays me$75,000 or more,okay.
Go on the internet.
Okay.
But if they want to work intechnology, I I got enough
experience to understand whatthat journey looks like and
feels like.
Uh, I also, it's not lost on methat I was very, very fortunate

(01:52:36):
in how I got into it was nothaving to spend six months
working through, you know, uhwhat do they call it?
They uh there's a system forcandidate processing, uh, but
it's these automated bots.
Oh, yeah.
You could not use enough of theright word enough times and
you're not considered anymore.

SPEAKER_07 (01:52:53):
Yeah, the algorithm's got to catch you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:52:55):
Yeah, the candidate tracking system, which is
something I forget what it is,but uh they're those are
torturous, horrible machines.
Yeah, yeah.
The uh, but if they want to workinside of technology that serves
law enforcement, I try to figureout okay, who are they?
Are you someone that needs avery mature company that has

(01:53:17):
defined workflows, expectations,the travel is X percent of their
time, the earnings potentialsare these, and everything is
very finite.
Okay, you find that in companiesthat have been doing it a long
time that are usually publiccompanies that are larger.
And so I try to classify them.

(01:53:38):
Okay, are you searching forthat?
Is does that feed you?
Is that where your happy spot isto be in that type of
environment?
Or do you want to be in kind ofa high growth but relatively
mature?
And I say relatively that'sreally important, but like Taxon
is a very mature company 25years, I think, probably by now.

(01:54:00):
Yeah, lots of growth always inthe company, right?
So they're on they do not sitstill, right?
But it's a mature company.
They've got their they've gottheir drive down, right?
Right, yeah, but they're theygrow all the time.
Okay, that's a place.
So there's uh let's say like a Idon't know, like a Motorola,

(01:54:23):
right?
They've been around I don't evenknow how long, right?
Yeah, theirs is not uh they'renot as agile and nor are they as
frenetic as you move down thethe the spectrum here.
And it's not down in a bad way,it's just different.
Axon, fast mover, big, biggoals, tons of growth in all
kinds of ways and stuff, butthey have a system down, it's

(01:54:46):
it's more developed over time,yeah.
And then there's everythingelse, everything else is
different versions of startup,right?
And most won't make it, but it'sthe tolerance for risk, and can
you work in a lot of ambiguitiesin the beginning?

(01:55:08):
You know, because cops like workin ambiguities, but their system
at the police department ispolicy bound and has all kinds
of structure to it, right?
Not everybody falls into anunstructured environment that's
the wild, wild west, right?
And there's a period of timeearly in those startups that
it's like that, and there's highrisk that the company's gonna

(01:55:30):
just turn the lights off, youknow, in six months or a year or
whatever.
A lot of them do.
So, and then understanding howyour compensation works and what
you should be looking for witheach of these three tech types
of entities or personalities ofcompanies.
Um and different people matchdifferent things.

(01:55:53):
So I have a conversation withthem to find out what rings your
bell.
You know, and some work here,right?
Some think they work here, okay,but I really press them to
really be introspective.
Right.
You know, because I've donethis, you know, once uh before.
Now I'm in a uh Paragon is astartup, yes, but they're more

(01:56:16):
mature than most.
They really are.
Uh there's startup only in somekind of some technical
classifications, I guess.
I don't even fully understandall the funding rounds.
And at what point, how manyfunding rounds do you have
before you're not a startup?
I don't know.
Right.
Yeah.
But uh I know part of it is yourstructure, your development,
your product, and things likethat.
That can matter.
So a startup in one type of areais not the same as a startup in

(01:56:38):
another area in law enforcementuh supplying technologies.
So the the person that can jumpin here, all good, it's gonna be
a crazy ride.
Okay.
The last company I was with wasa crazy, almost four-year ride.
It's there's tons of experienceto learn from and do good.
And if you can survive there,you can survive in any of this,

(01:57:01):
but you may not be happy there.

SPEAKER_06 (01:57:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57:03):
This is the thing I tell people don't necessarily
believe this is a starting pointfor you.
These other two may be the rightstarting point because they may
be the ending point too.
You may enjoy this, but you maynot enjoy that, and you're
thinking you're building towardsthat.
It's not always that.
You know, uh, I know plenty ofpeople that are axon have been
there for a long time, they'revery happy there.
It's challenging, but they likethat pacing and that pressure.

(01:57:26):
Like I do better under thatmoderate to high pressure.

SPEAKER_06 (01:57:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57:29):
Some people don't.

SPEAKER_06 (01:57:30):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57:31):
Right?
Um so I talk with them a lot andI try and figure out you know,
if I I really want them toquestion themselves enough to
know which one of these kind ofthree things that they fit into
better.

SPEAKER_06 (01:57:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57:45):
And then if but it's some of them say, Oh no, I'm
definitely this person.
Okay, tell me about that.
You know, what what are thosethings that you think you know
make you fit that?
And the people that typicallyit's the hardest to fit into
startup coming from lawenforcement.
Yeah, it really is.
Um, because like I I've neverworked in sales before.

(01:58:09):
Well, I I sold some drugsbefore, but those legitimately
fish in a barrel, though.
That's a yeah, it's ahigh-demand market.
They can get over the fact thatyou might be a risk.
Yeah.
They learn the hard way.
But um, but the it's whether ornot you're gonna go into sales,
whether or not you're gonna gointo support roles.
There's all kinds of otherthings like consulting, yeah,

(01:58:31):
and customer success.
Some cops really get a lot outof that taking care of the law
enforcement you know, agenciesthey work with.
They they like that role, andthey do very well sometimes in
that.
So that's the kind of thefiltering mechanism that people
need to go through that I tellthem about.
And then it's a matter of, okay,remote, not remote, sales,

(01:58:53):
support, travel, things likethis.
They're not thinking of allthose things.
Uh, and then you you think,okay, there's higher income
here, greater risk, less here,and less here, you know, where
wherever you're gonna land,there's different compensation
types and levels.
And they need to get comfortablewith that.

(01:59:13):
Somebody that's leaving lawenforcement at 10 years with no
retirement built in, all thatother thing, all those other
things, they may have a lowerrisk tolerance to that.
They may prefer a salaried rolethat is pretty solid and stable
across the board.
Um and in retirement, you havesome safety net, you know.
But I I don't look at it likeI'm not in sales because of my

(01:59:35):
safety net.
Yeah, I'm in sales because I'mvery passionate about what I'm
doing.
Yeah, it's it's this a it was abig leap for me, but I really
wanted it because of where I'mat.
I could list 25 companies that Iwould not do this with.

SPEAKER_07 (01:59:48):
Right.
And but you may consult.
You know what I mean?
Like for for people that reallylisten, like you don't just
because sales doesn't fit youfor this company, consulting
might.

SPEAKER_00 (01:59:59):
Yes.
And there's other roles, thereare support roles, you know,
that you might fit there.
Yeah.
So uh, but the the other thingis uh just like you were
alluding to, what have you done?
Yeah, man, that matters.
Yeah, okay.
I'm all for SWAT, I'm all forpatrol, all for canine.

(02:00:21):
But you just I just listed threethings that do not have
dramatically large second careeropportunities.

SPEAKER_03 (02:00:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (02:00:28):
Now, all of these things bring certain traits that
different parts of the marketwill have higher value to and
there'll be a better connectionwith.
But if you want to have athere's retirement gigs and
there are careers, and you gottafigure that out too.
Do I just want to make extra?

(02:00:49):
You know, yeah.
For 10 years, I'm good.
Or five years.
Okay.
You're a retirement gig.
Okay, and that's cool.
It it serves your needs andyou're fulfilling someone else's
needs, right?
And that could be a 20 differentroles, right?
If you're moving in a wholedifferent career, okay, there's
a l it's there's a much moreserious approach to this.

(02:01:11):
And the you need to really lookback.
What do I have on my table?
And it's like I just worked withsomebody, and I say I worked
with them, I'm helping cops, youknow, moving into other things.
I just worked with somebody thatI just went down the list and I
said, tell me what do you bringto the table for the things that
you said you want to do.

(02:01:32):
Most of the time it's reallyshort, or it's I need some help.
Yeah.
You know, or it's outdated.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Like, okay, well, I you know,uh, use of force instruction
probably is not gonna help youin the tech sector.
I mean, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 (02:01:49):
Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 (02:01:51):
So and it's not that that's not valuable, it's just
that use of force instruction isvaluable in a certain area.

SPEAKER_07 (02:01:56):
So go work for force science.

SPEAKER_00 (02:01:58):
Actually, that'll help you.
I I talked to another guy, hehad a lot of uh defense skills,
force policy, and stuff likethat.
He'd actually been involved in alot of it.
So, hey, here's an idea.
Why don't you become a subjectmatter expert, you know, and
work with attorneys?

SPEAKER_06 (02:02:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:02:19):
And you can work on it in a variety of different
ways because once you're consonce you do get subject matter
expert labeling and you do well,you get called everywhere.
Everybody wants you, right?

SPEAKER_07 (02:02:30):
Look at Vaughn Kleem for course that dude.

SPEAKER_00 (02:02:33):
And it yeah, and there's much smaller versions of
that, right?
But if you want to go make ahundred to two hundred thousand
a year, it's out there.
Yeah.
If you are subject matter incertain things that attorneys
need.
But I know this my brother's nota pellet attorney, so I I have
some weird insight into this.

SPEAKER_07 (02:02:49):
But but one of the problems that I've seen, and
this this comes from the NRT CCAstuff mostly, is people will hit
me up all the time.
Hey, I'm I really like thiscompany.
Uh, I really like, you know,what do you think the odds of me
getting hired there?
And I'm like this is where thatdon't be delusional.
Yeah, don't have this, likeyou've worked, and this is no

(02:03:11):
offense, it doesn't mean youcan't get the experience, but
you worked for an agency of 16people in a city that gets a
thousand calls a year, yeah.
They arrest 20 people a year.
The odds of you having theexperience to work for these
companies is very low.

(02:03:32):
And you get some people thatthey don't see anything outside
of their fishbowl.
Where you you worked for what Iwould consider a medium to large
size agency for the nation,yeah, which has a shit ton of
calls.
I mean, you guys have a ton ofcalls.
Um, and then so you've got thatexperience, but then you go

(02:03:56):
around the country uh uh in theprivate sector now, and you get
a chance to see the level ofexperience and calls and and
cultures around the nation.
And then you're gonna havesomebody hit you up and be like,
Yeah, I want I want to come outand work either where you're at,
or I was wanting to work forthis company, and then you gotta
have that realisticconversation.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04:13):
And I do, and I I don't I don't candy coat it.
I'm I'm I'm very respectfulbecause the work they're doing
is still really important.
I did that work, you know?
Yeah, and and what what's funnyis people there's a I mean
inside and outside lawenforcement, there's a a
particular uh perception ofsmaller agency cops as knowing

(02:04:35):
less.
What I have found is some ofthose guys are extremely
resourceful, adaptive, and theytake care of stuff on their own.

SPEAKER_07 (02:04:43):
Right.
Because they have no choice.
That's some trades that arevaluable.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04:48):
Yep.
Uh the thing that they don't getopportunity at is technology,
leadership roles, and reallydeep subject matter expert
areas.
Right.
Yeah.
These are the opportunities thataren't provided by a smaller
agency.
It's not because they're lessercops, it's they just don't have
those opportunities there.

SPEAKER_07 (02:05:05):
Yeah.
And that's if I came across waysto do that.
Oh, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:08):
I just always do when I talk to people about this
and I and I put it to them, Itell them, hey, here's your
strengths coming from a smallagency.

SPEAKER_07 (02:05:16):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:16):
Where does that play well for you?

SPEAKER_07 (02:05:18):
Because they typically run a whole call where
you go to like where I'm at orwhere you're at, it's like you
get the information you pass onto the detective.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:25):
You're like, next.
So um small agencies have someadvantages that larger ones I
like don't.
But over a whole career, someoneworking at, you know, Dallas or
Fort Worth and Atlanta, Chicago,there's a likelihood that
they're gonna get exposed to abroad range of things and maybe
become expert in some of themthat may be valuable in a second

(02:05:46):
career.
Um so the there, but there's alot of avenues out there that
not everybody thinks of, likebeing a subject matter expert in
testimony.

SPEAKER_06 (02:05:56):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:57):
Yeah, there are people that drill down to stuff
and they're considered theirdepartment guru in something.
Guess what?
Somebody else somewhere else mayvalue of that, but you gotta
think about it.
And I also tell people uh get aLinkedIn yesterday.

SPEAKER_06 (02:06:10):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06:11):
And do not fill your resume with everything that
you've done.

SPEAKER_06 (02:06:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06:18):
Nobody in the private sector, let's say in
technology, is necessarily, andI'll tell you a funny twist on
this too.
Nobody's gonna care whether ornot you were a great um handcuff
teacher.
Handcuffing technique teacher.
You don't need to put that onthere.
And I'm telling you, I've seenthese things, you know, where

(02:06:38):
there's four pages of resume,and I go, okay, first let's get
this in one, maybe two, if youreally do some crazy wild stuff
that's really applicable.

SPEAKER_06 (02:06:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06:46):
Most of this should fit on one.
Um, and then let's tune that into highlighting the things that
are for the employer that you'rereally wanting to work for.

SPEAKER_06 (02:06:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06:55):
And your LinkedIn page too.
It should change over timedepending on what your interests
are and where you want to go,but it should start five years
before you exit, or you thinkyou're going to.

SPEAKER_03 (02:07:04):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (02:07:04):
Whether it's retirement or just earlier.
And understanding the rest ofthe world is very different.
Yeah.
What they're looking for andwhat they're not, you need to
think about.
So the uh uh oddly, I did notput narcotics work in my

(02:07:25):
background on my resume andstuff, or nor my LinkedIn stuff.
It's that was a long time ago.
And it doesn't seem reallyrelevant.
Yeah.
Turns out I hadn't put it onthere, but it did come up just
in conversation during theinterview process.
My interview process with theperegrine was really long
because uh they'll call theypeople said, You've never

(02:07:46):
carried a quota or done sales.
I go, I get it.
That's the mechanical part ofthis.
I can learn those things, and Ipromise you, I will learn those
things.
All the other stuff is what Iknow that I bring to the table.
And they they got that.
But one of them, he was like,okay, you know, but then all of
a sudden it just came out thatI'd done narcotics work, and all

(02:08:08):
of a sudden he was like sold.
Not literally that, but yeah,yeah.
At that point, he was like, Iknow what that entails, and I
know what those guys have to do.

SPEAKER_06 (02:08:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:08:16):
And what I didn't understand was it's the same
thing I've said, you know what?
Bartenders can do sales.

SPEAKER_04 (02:08:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:08:22):
Bartenders can do all kinds of sales.
They make great cops.
Service industry people can do alot of stuff, man.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, because you handle peoplein all states of life, and
you've got to kind of move themin certain ways.
And they're just serviceindustry people are an untapped
resource.

SPEAKER_07 (02:08:40):
100%.
I would take I would take abarista or a bartender over a
college, a fresh college grad,anyway.
Oh, yeah.
They got life skills and they'vebeen through stuff and they've
lived hard.
Yes.
For sure.

SPEAKER_00 (02:08:53):
That is not easy.
Um they the times they have towork and the pressures and the
the relationships in theworkplace and outside, it those
are good picks.
The narcotics thing was, and Iremember bringing this up in a
sales meeting once.
Someone was like, Oh, sales areso hard.
It wasn't my company, it wasprevious.
And uh they were moaning howhard it was.

(02:09:15):
And I was like, You have moreinbound requests for your
product than you could have timeto deal with.
And and so I raised my hand andI said, uh, let me put hard
selling in perspective.
Hard selling is you know beingthe new guy in the neighborhood,
and you're in a storage unit at245 in the morning with two guys

(02:09:37):
you don't know.
And if you don't gain theirconfidence, that's where you're
gonna stay the rest of yourexistence for the next 10
minutes while you die.

SPEAKER_05 (02:09:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:09:43):
So that's actually hard selling.
Yeah.
You know, uh gaining reportrapport, confidence, trust.
Yeah, do it in 90 seconds.
Tell me if it's easier now.
Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_07 (02:09:53):
So trying to convince somebody that you need
to find the supplier because yougot a bigger buyer that you
you've got the you've got the uhcredibility for the weight that
you're trying to push, likestuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 (02:10:03):
Yeah, all of these things and how God tried
managing snitches.
Oh yeah.
Okay, CIs.
Sorry.
Sorry, confidential informants.
I come from a different time.

SPEAKER_07 (02:10:13):
The uh yeah, you can't call them homeless.
They're uh the unhoused allgood.
All different things.
All good.
I roll with it.

SPEAKER_00 (02:10:21):
I do the uh in where I'm at, I touch all kinds of uh
really not now.
Now I'm I handle all everythingin the northern third of Texas.
Okay.
Most of my previous four yearswas anywhere on the map that was
a major city or county.
Okay.
So I got uh I exposed to a lotof different terminologies and

(02:10:42):
ideologies and all kinds, yeah.
I've seen the unhousedtremendous swaths of uh
personalities of cities, states,and agencies.
And it can be shocking.
You have an idea.
There was an agency that's alarge national site, you know,
national level agency that I raninto that I was so shocked at

(02:11:05):
the politics and where theylanded on the spectrum because I
just had an idea they did theylanded somewhere else.
And I was like, oh, okay.
So this is an entirely differentapproach.
We need to retool everything tomake sure we understand where
they're at.
It's kind of like take people asthey are and where you find them
in life.
Yeah.
And that's that was the lessonwith one particularly large

(02:11:26):
agency taught me that rule inlaw enforcement, you take things
as they are right when you showup.
Yeah, it absolutely translatesto what I'm doing now.
Okay.
Yeah, it really does.
Yeah.
And having that perspective, youknow, will help because you
won't be caught off balance, youknow, with an agency that's
telling you these things andyou're trying to catch up.

(02:11:49):
Okay.
Listen to who they are.
Yeah.
Learn them.
But the um it's but for peoplewanting to get in, understanding
that what skills I never thoughtnarcotics work with translate
technology, but yeah, it doesapparently in sales because it's
still selling.
So good to know.
Yeah.
The uh don't estimateunderestimate what you've done

(02:12:10):
isn't translatable.
But reach out to people like meand others to help you not have
a resume that nobody wants toread.
Yeah.
LinkedIn and having thoseconnections, really seek them
out.
And don't be afraid to like,like, if you like somebody, if
they wanted to work withPeregrine, if they reach out and
they say, Hey, can I have 10minutes?

(02:12:31):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 (02:12:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:12:32):
You know, I mean, how many times would I wanted
that?
Maybe, you know, I I've beenvery fortunate in my career, my
second career path, you know.

SPEAKER_05 (02:12:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:12:40):
But I understand the value of having people help.
People will help, they reallywill.
So don't be afraid to get onLinkedIn and just reach out to
someone and say, hey, this iswho I am, a little bit of my
background.
I'm looking to shift.
Can I get 10 minutes of yourtime just to bounce stuff off of
you and just get an idea?
I'm not trying to have youconnect me with a hiring
manager.
Oh, do not send me things thatsay, hey, I've applied at your

(02:13:04):
company.
Okay, well, I'm kind of out ofit now.
Right.
Because you're part of HR'sprocess, you know, so and I
don't know you.
But can you connect me with ahiring manager?
I don't even know who thathiring manager would be
necessarily, you know, and Idon't know you, so that's that's
an unfair imposition on me.
And I hate having to say no, butI've I've come up with a polite
way of saying, heck, I reallycan't help you there.

(02:13:25):
Yeah.
You know.
Uh but reaching out to people,literally just asking for 10
minutes, 15 minutes of time,people will do it.
And doing that across differentareas.
Yeah, connect with people onLinkedIn.
It's not like you're askingabout on a date.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:13:44):
You're just saying, hey, you're doing something that
I might want to do.
I'd like to connect with you,and maybe I'll send a message to
you.
You don't have to write away.
A couple weeks later, you send amessage, hey, I connected with
you on this, and this is whatI'm looking at.
It may not even your company maynot ultimately be where I go.

SPEAKER_06 (02:13:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:13:58):
But can I have 10 minutes?

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (02:14:01):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14:01):
Especially cops.
Yes.
They're in this, they will helpcops.

unknown (02:14:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (02:14:05):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's it's it's fun becauseI've got to see, I've seen a lot
of the people, you know,starting with my own dad, and
then just the transition of allmy friends.
Like Dalton Webb, another one.
He's my mentor in the real-timecrime center.
And watching him transform overinto the private sector and
thriving, and you switching overand other people that I've met

(02:14:28):
along the way jumping over.
Uh Lenny, one of our buddies,you know, just watching these
guys that kicked ass in policework and seeing that, you know,
they they still had the drive.
The drive was still there.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14:39):
And you're not cashing in on anything when you
do this, uh, especially whenyou're doing it from the
perspective that I'm actuallygonna go out there and help
these guys.

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14:48):
You know, and that means that you need to select a
company that you can bepassionate about.

SPEAKER_06 (02:14:52):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14:53):
That you can say, I believe in this.
Uh, I remember I I worked, Isold cameras uh in high school
and college, I have a littlecamera shop, but it was mostly
pros that came in there, or atleast advanced shooters.
And I learned something.
I I was an amazing kid sellingstuff on the things that I
really believed in, which weremostly really, really high-end

(02:15:14):
stuff that always worked reallywell.
All the gadgetry stuff andeverything, I knew it didn't
work.
Yeah, and so I didn't sell itwell.
I was the owner's like, well,you're not you're getting like
2% commission over there andnothing over here.
You know, I was like, Yeah, butthey're happy.
Yeah, I'm happy.
Yeah, they're re they'rereturning.

(02:15:34):
And so I I did that.
Well, it's the same idea laterand then 40 years later in life.
I'm like, sell what you'repassionate about that you really
believe in, and that reallyserves a impactful purpose out
there.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (02:15:47):
So that's good.
I'm good.
I um it's a good way to to kindof close it out.
I wanted to the the privatesector thing with with cops and
getting out.
I just want them to I want themto know that their options are
they're there before they'redone.
Like you don't have to wait tillyou punch the clock and you're
like, all right, now I gotta gostart looking.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16:07):
Way too late.

SPEAKER_07 (02:16:08):
Start, yeah, start getting that that wheel greased
right away.
Like as soon as you think thatyou want to do something outside
of this.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16:17):
I mean start talking to people that are doing those
things because they'll tell you,you know, things that are super
important.

SPEAKER_07 (02:16:23):
Yeah.
Yep.
Me, for instance, I've still got10, 15 years, but I've already
developed these relationshipswith all these different
companies and stuff that I'mpassionate in.

SPEAKER_00 (02:16:33):
And you know a lot now just by being close to all
this.
You know, there was a the chiefrevenue officer at the uh at the
office at the company I was withbefore.
He told the other people thatwere cheerleading for me to get
on with the company.
He said, I do you really thinkhe's gonna be okay with it when
he when we pull back thecurtain, they see really the

(02:16:54):
craziness behind all this.
Yeah, you know, and I was like,cops work in chaos.
Yeah, that's how we thrive.
They they have they look forwardto this.
I mean, nobody wants to sitstill, give it to me.
Right.
You know, like there's very fewpeople.
Uh, serve that this is whyservice industry works so well
sometimes.
It is chaotic, constant problemsolving.
Yep, a a bizarre optimism inlife, you know.

(02:17:17):
Uh so the don't discount thatjust because you've been a cop,
that this does not translate.

SPEAKER_02 (02:17:26):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (02:17:27):
Make it translatable, build skill sets
that matter, and do it in a timeframe that actually meets your
exit point if you've got a pointwhere you're really exiting.
Uh and if if you're exitingbecause you didn't have a choice
and it's public in newspapers,that's gonna be a tough one.
Yeah.
I've had those calls too.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.

(02:17:47):
Are you the same guy that I justgoogled five seconds ago?
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (02:17:52):
Yeah.
Do you have an incident inMilwaukee somewhere?
Yeah.
Shh, I don't think we have aplace for you, sir.
Right now, right now, it's not agood fit.
Um, but all right, brother.
Well, before we end this, do yougot anything else you want to
get out there?

SPEAKER_00 (02:18:03):
No, I'm good.
Uh I the I I'm you're gonna bean ICP, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The I'm sending out messages allall week long right now and uh
trying to get people to come byand you know, see me at the
booth and stuff.
We've got a huge booth thisyear.
Do you?
This is a big breakout year forthe company.
This is when we went fullynational everywhere.

(02:18:24):
So this year means a lot to us,and we've dedicated a ton of
resources there.
I think there's like 80 or someodd people from our company that
will be there.

SPEAKER_02 (02:18:31):
Oh, nice.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (02:18:32):
So in a in a bald face pitch, do come by, see us,
spend a small amount of timewith us to see if this is
something that we're offeringthat fits you.
If it doesn't, awesome.
You know, we're still gonnathrow a couple good parties.
So nice.

SPEAKER_07 (02:18:47):
I'm excited about it because I have no pressure now.
Like we just did our conference.
Yeah.
And so now it's like, try to getnew members.
That's it.
That's pretty easy for me.
I just gotta go around and talkto people.

SPEAKER_00 (02:18:57):
So yeah, and I've already told a few people to
come by the booth and see y'alltoo.

SPEAKER_07 (02:19:01):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, cool.
Well, I really appreciate it,brother.
Well, uh, we'll see how this cutturns out, but I appreciate you
being on, man.
Good.
Thank you very much.
Yeah.
So while we roll out of this,I'm gonna try this new switcher
out and see if it ends the waythat it's supposed to.
Let's check it out.

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