The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Modern Policing

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Disclaimer Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast.
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(00:21):
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Now, all right, welcome back toCops 1 Donut.

(00:49):
I am your host, eric Levine, myco-host and big red bastard man
Banning Sweatland.
What's going on, brother?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
brother Excited for this how are you doing today,
man, where you at?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm actually home.
I'm home for at least anotherweek, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Oh, okay, there we go .
That's been a first for us.
Today, guys, we have twospecial guests.
We have one for maybe a shortperiod of time, which we've had
on here before Mr Von Kleem fromForce Science.
How are you, sir?

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Good Thanks for giving me a call and inviting me
.
I was glad you said, do youguys have like 45 minutes?
And I was like, maybe betweendinner and report writing, we'll
take you for as long as we canget you.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
But the man of the hour tonight is Officer Jared
Kosina.
Now, guys, jared is areservation cop.
He has three jurisdictionsunder his belt, which is very
rare.
So for that I want you guys tokeep that in mind to ask him
questions, because he's going tohave a much, much different

(01:57):
perspective than all of us hereon the panel, and it's just,
it's going to be cool to pickhis brain and talk about what he
does where he's at.
But, jared, thanks for being ontonight.
Buddy, how are you doing?

Speaker 4 (02:09):
good, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I'm doing wonderful.
I see that you are stillstunning to look at on camera,
thank you.
Thank you, I got a fresh cutjust for you.
I like it.
Yeah, I'm.
I'm kind of holding off.
I've got my military timecoming up here February 23rd, so
I kind of skipped a week to getmy haircut and then it's all

(02:31):
going to get trimmed the beard.
But no, thank you guys forbeing on here.
Tonight is going to beprimarily we're going to push
you two to answer the questions.

(02:53):
The good part is we got tons ofpeople that will chat and talk
with us in the chat section hereand we will highlight that
stuff.
Matter of fact, let me get thechats going up here.
Just say hey to everybody.
Um, mr Bill fold is back.
Uh, mr Bill fold, scene Vaughnmade my back spasm again.

(03:14):
Uh, I told you, vaughn, youhave an effect on people.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Uh, you guys will notice if I had a dollar for
every time that happened.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Alan is not here today, guys.
He couldn't make it, but he ischiming in, so at least he's
here to support Love it.
David Edmonston's jumping on.
We originally had David startin from LinkedIn.
He's jumped over to YouTube.
Appreciate you, guys and guysI'm going to throw this out
there If you like what we'redoing and you want to support

(04:03):
what we're doing, says is thatthe yearly two weeks, sir, it is
24 days and I do it all in onestint, so I am gone basically a
month when I do my time.
Mr Belfold said Vaughn is aforce science wizard.
He has that effect on me.
Michelle, talking to my mom mymom's up on here.

(04:24):
Mr Billfold, howdy, my wholebody is shaking.
It's cold here in Texas.
It's just not right.
It is kind of cold in here.
So, jim Miner, love the show.
Thanks, buddy, appreciate you,man.
So, guys, I'm going to.
We start the show off the sameway all the time.
We kind of figure out a topicor we'll show some stuff from

(04:48):
Two Cops, one Donor, that we'vebeen posting out there and we've
been getting a lot of feedbackabout.
So let's, let's jump into that.
There's been some stuff thathas caused quite a bit of talk.
So this next one, vaughn andJared, is I push officers quite
a bit about social skills and Isay that part of our job is to

(05:12):
be aware of our own socialskills and what we say in our
tone and stuff has a lot to dowith where a call develops and
in police work.
One of our biggest flaws in thehiring process is we do not
really have a social skills test.
We have a mental health test,we have a physical fitness test,

(05:33):
we have a credit check, we haveall these wonderful tools, but
I think everybody on the panelhere would agree the most
important skill, 99% of what wedo, is our social skills.
Jared, what do you got on that?

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Oh, it's for sure.
I mean I don't know how manytimes I've talked myself out of
getting in a fight or talkmyself into getting in a fight
or stalling until your backuparrives.
I don't know how you could dothe job without social skills,
reading people as soon as youget to the call and you know
something's off or somethingdoesn't feel right.
And in my buddy who trains atthe academy he said just that he

(06:12):
goes the.
The recruits that he getscoming through aren't up to par.
Basically they, they lack thatbasic basic skill yeah, von what
is your?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
have you?
Have you talked at all um inyour experience about a social
skills test or um measurementfor people when they get hired
on as police?

Speaker 3 (06:34):
yeah, I think there.
I mean, there's a lot of goodtests for that.
Even your character, yourpersonality test, like a five
big five personality test, willgive you a pretty good idea of
where people fall.
But it's a.
You're looking for emotionalintelligence, yes, instead of iq
.
It's your ability to to knowyourself, know other people,
know how you influence otherpeople and how they influence
groups, and you know it's partly.

(06:57):
You can train it, you can, butit's mostly, uh, some of you
just born with like people havehigher eq than other people.
People have higher iq thanother people.
But what we do and you guysremember the good old verbal
judo training, right, we'regoing to give you a script and
if you use this script, at leastfor your introduction, you, as

(07:19):
a first year low eq member ofthis department, can sound just
like a high eq, first year lowEQ member of this department,
can sound just like a high EQfive-year veteran, right, and
you can fake it and you getbetter over time when you start
to see the success.
But I will tell you this thesome people at that age, they
are who they are.
You're not going to developthem at a higher level of EQ,

(07:42):
but you can.
You can incentivize them to usethe script, to use the frontal
brain to control their lizardbrain.
Right, and I remember this.
I might've shared this before,but this guy kept coming back
when I was teaching ourde-escalation program and every
time they'd get in troublethey'd send them back.
So you get a certificate ofcompletion.

(08:02):
By the time this guy, he'd comeback like the fourth time I
made a certificate of phd inverbal judo phd de-escalation,
because he'd been to the classlike five times and uh, I was
like man, this guy, he justdoesn't get it.
He chose not to because Ibacked him on a call one night
up in north, on north kansasavenue, which was a you know

(08:23):
some bars up there and and thisbig boy wanted to fight him.
And this boy was big and angryand mean and this guy was not
going to fight him.
And let me tell you who becamevery good, very fast at
de-escalation and communicationand peace phrases.
I was like, yeah, I knew youhad it in you, you just needed
to be incentivized.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Freeman Keyes had a great question.
He said serious question why,after an officer throws someone
on their head and knocks themunconscious while they're having
agonal breathing, do they saystop resisting?
Um, I'll lead the way on this.
Uh, just to soften uh the theanswers a little bit.
Um, and this goes into vaughn'sdefinitely uh realm here.

(09:03):
But a lot of times when we startto go use force if it's not
something that we're 100%comfortable with using force and
we know we're about to gohands-on with somebody.
Not every cop has this ability.
Me, I'm a little different.
I've done grappling for a longtime.
I'm desensitized a lot.

(09:25):
So for me it's just another dayat the office, so I don't get
worked up.
So when I take somebody down,it's very easy and quick for me
to assess the damage that'shappened and move from there.
Other officers it's not.
Their brain hasn't caught upyet, because they've got the
adrenaline, they've got allthese things going on.
Brain hasn't caught up yetbecause they've got the

(09:45):
adrenaline, they've got allthese things going on.
So they are going through themental training and reps that
they've had hundreds andthousands of times.
When they use force they takesomebody to the ground.
They're like stop resisting,stop fighting.
Stop fighting, because it'sbeen ingrained in them and
they're saying it and theirbrain hasn't caught up to what's
actually happened in front ofthem yet.
And their brain hasn't caughtup to what's actually happened
in front of them yet.

(10:06):
So that's kind of the way thatI see it, but I'm going to flex
this one over to Vaughn and thenwe'll let Jared talk.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I think that's right.
It's this level of automaticity, right, that's what we call it.
Right, you've done it so muchyou're not thinking about it.
We've seen guns fly out ofpeople's hands and they go drop
the gun, drop the gun, drop thegun, drop the gun.
And everyone can clearly seethe guy has already thrown the
gun, right?
But it's that level ofautomaticity because of training
.
That's part of it.
That's one layer.
The other layer is, um, when youguys all know when, when you

(10:38):
get a hyper arousal state, right, your body is going to react
differently.
Adrenaline affects perception,cognition and decision making,
right, so they're not seeing it.
They're literally not seeing it.
And and that's why in MMA andEric you talk about this, how
many times is somebodyunconscious?
And it takes the ref to pullthe guy off?
Right, they're still throwingpunches of a guy who we can see

(11:01):
is clearly unconscious.
Um, so they're not doing athreat assessment.
So I'll stop here, becausethere's layers upon layers upon
layers about why that happens.
So the big three is one, it'sautomaticity.
Two, their adrenaline hasimpacted their perception and
cognition, right, and such thatthey're not actually perceiving.

(11:22):
And the other one is we can'tsimultaneously evaluate and
perform.
They've evaluated a threat.
I've decided I got to dosomething.
I then do it, and as long asI'm engaged in that performance,
including the yelling, thegiving the directions, the
physical performance you're notsimultaneously evaluating.
Now how do you mitigate thatreality?
Just what you said, eric.

(11:46):
You train to a point whereyou're so confident in your own
competence that you maintain anoptimal arousal state.
You don't panic, you stay calm.
I think all of us who've beenin a lot of fights over the
years get to a point where youdon't even get excited about a
fight.
You just don't even get excited.
Well, that not getting excitedis what allows you to continue

(12:07):
to do really good threatassessments.
And so you wouldn't.
You wouldn't do that.
That's just three.
There's even more reasons whythat happens, but I'll stop
there and kick it over to jaredyeah, I've.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I've told my guys before.
I was like if you see sarge getworked up, it's bad, you need
to be there and help me, becauseif I'm getting worked up it's
bad, you need to be there andhelp me, because if I'm getting
worked up it's bad because ittakes a lot to get me moved
anymore.
But, jared, go ahead, brother.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yeah, I mean picking up what Vaughn said.
It's the OODA loop.
Those of you not familiar withthe OODA loop, but OODA loops,
in the acronym, basically standsfor observe, orient, decide and
act.
And what happens sometimes isyou are so jacked up on
adrenaline that you keep, youcan't break that oodle loop and
you keep going and going andgoing.
So that's why you hear drop thegun, drop the gun.
Drop the gun when the guy'salready on the ground and in

(12:51):
handcuffs, and it's because youget the adrenaline, dump the new
officers that aren'texperienced, and that's what
happens.
Um, and as von said, yeah, youget to a point in your career
where you don't get as excitedand you know a fight.
If something happens, you, youget annoyed, you don't, you
don't get excited about it.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
So it's it's training and it's a lot of breathing
exercises and getting your mindright yeah, the breathe the
breathing really does the, thecombat, breathing, or whatever
you want to call it that thatstuff can help, for sure von.
Do you have something?

Speaker 3 (13:25):
yeah, we should talk about that aspect of it because
there's a bigger conversation onhow to maintain optimal arousal
states, because the breathingis one small piece.
But just to say, when we lookat cases and we see stuff like
that on videos, we see that asevidence consistent with a high
cognitive load.
Right, it means they'reprobably getting on the verge of

(13:45):
there's too much going on atonce for them.
So that's evidence of a highcognitive load, which means
there are certain things we canexpect of them.
And a funny example I had in acase recently was a guy who when
he looks at the guy had a taserand when they it was, they
ended up shooting the guy.
When they rolled the guy up toclear him, uh, he was deceased.

(14:07):
At that point the theresponding officer says he's got
a camera.
He's got a camera and a weirdreaction.
Think about it he's yeah, butwhy did he do it?
Who makes tasers?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Axon.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Who makes the cameras ?
Your body cam Usually.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
Axon.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Axon, yeah, axon.
So he thought he saw it,thought Axon, his brain it was
such a high cognitive load hewas so stressed out he flipped
it.
He just he's got a camera, he'sgot a camera and he was like
Taser and I was like, oh, that'sreally interesting.
His brain flipped the taser andI was like, oh, that's, that's

(14:47):
really interesting.
His brain flipped, theconnection being they're both
manufactured by axon, so I wouldnot be surprised if he saw it.
I don't know if the taseractually says axon on it.
I think some of them actuallysay axon on the side.
He probably saw that wordinstantly because of his high
cognitive load shot out, thefirst thing that he thought of
in that's associated with axon.
So that's only somewhat related.

(15:07):
But it's when people are aredoing that repetitive, that
repetitive command and you'relike, okay, dude, he's, he's
already in handcuffs, stop, orhe's already dropped the gun, or
you know.
That is evidence of a highlevel, of a high cognitive load
and it's also evidence of thesincerity of the threat that
they've perceived.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Interesting, See.
This is why I like havingVaughn on here.
It's like having your ownscientist.
All right let me play thisvideo here.
I think I just have to.
I always get a little leerywhen I'm playing different types
of videos here.
Social skills issues.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
Thank you for having an American flag on your uniform
.
I appreciate that.
What kind do you wear?
What's your name and badgenumber?
I'm Officer Virginia with theAlexandria Police Department.
Okay, what's your badge number?
2612.
Okay, great, and what don't Ineed to worry about?
This is police business rightnow.
You don't need to worry aboutwhat's going on.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
It doesn't.
This is very common amongstpolice officers, so this was
kind of the controversy when wehad this discussion.
Now I want to preface thisauditor.
I'm not even 100% sure he's anauditor, because here's what I
want to point out as a cop itlooks like it's an apartment
complex.
That is not a normal place foran auditor to show up.
Complex, that is not a normalplace for an auditor to show up.

(16:29):
So I do believe that thisperson probably lives in this
area.
He may be an auditor, I don'tknow, and I want to acknowledge
that I don't agree with hisapproach either.
I think he is kind of beingantagonistic, a contrarian if
you will, and you'll hear whyhere in a second.
That isn't the point of this.

(16:50):
I hold cops to a higherstandard and the way we come
across.
We were just talking about howwe communicate.
I love that.
Vaughn brought up EQ, emotionalintelligence, however you want
to call it.
We tend to feed off of eachother's energy and us as police,
we need to have good energy,especially on something like

(17:12):
this.
That is not.
We're not dealing with anactual criminal here, guys.
We're not dealing with, youknow, a bad guy situation.
We're dealing with maybe apossible asshole situation.
That's it.
And the beauty of America isyou got the right to be an
asshole if you want to be anasshole.
You know, it's kind of the wayI see it.
So the point I'm trying to getfor all you guys here on the

(17:33):
panel I'm trying to set theplatform here is I'm not worried
about his behavior.
That's not the point of this.
My point is us as officers, wehold ourselves to a higher
standard and her coming acrosswith the secret squirrel stuff
this is, you know, it's none ofyour business, it's a police
matter.
Like is that how you startedthe conversation off?

(17:54):
I don't like that.

Speaker 5 (18:08):
So I'm going to keep playing it and I want you guys
to keep that in mind.
Okay, well, I'm seeing fourcars in my neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
You think it's professional to say don't worry
about it, or you can see thedifference in tone.
The supervisor came over hands,kind of looks like they're just
in his pockets.
He's chill, more relaxed.
Hey, can I help you?
What's going on?
That guy asked him his badgenumber.
He's not being an asshole.
Now.
I don't think the other officerdid anything technically wrong.

(18:36):
I'm not saying that.
So I'm not saying that persondid anything technically wrong,
but I'm going to keep just keepthese things in mind.
Here's how my brain functions,guys.
I want you to figure out how mybrain works, so let's keep
going.

Speaker 5 (18:50):
Supervisor.
Yes sir, Thank you, I'm donewith you.
So I approached her.
I just said hey, what's going?

Speaker 1 (18:55):
on.
I'm done with you.
Okay, I'm with you guys.
I understand that it's not theway we want to talk to people,
but she says don't worry aboutit.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
And I asked her for her name and badge number.
Then there's this whole all oncamera, super slow moving,
taking my time.
It's all a show of disrespect.
Is it respectful when a citizenin their neighborhood is
concerned about four police carsAsking?
She says don't worry about it.
Is that professional behavior?
Well, what is the initialconcern?
As far as I live in thisneighborhood, I see four police
vehicles huddled over here.

(19:24):
Okay, I come over, I'mwondering if there's is there a
public safety concern?
Has there been a theft?
Has there been any crime?
And so I asked her and she saysdon't worry about it, police
business don't worry about it.
Is that what you said?
Yeah, did you do it withattitude?
Remember you're on camera?
Did you do it with attitude?
It depends on if you believe Ihave attitude.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay, that was an integrity check question and she
flipped it and said he said didyou do it with attitude?
And she goes well, that dependson if you believe I did it with
attitude.
That's not what he's asking.
He's asking did you think youdid it with attitude?
And she doesn't answer thequestion.
I'm going to end it there.
She doesn't answer the questionbecause she knows she did it

(20:09):
with attitude.
Now, guys, again, she didn't doanything illegal.
She didn't do anythingtechnically wrong.
There's nobody that's going tosay in a police department that
what she did was wrong.
She gave you what informationshe could and she was not wrong.
So I'm going to leave it atthat.

(20:30):
Jared, I see you smiling.
I'm very curious because youcome from a very different
atmosphere than what we work,what we have worked.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
We've all been there, we've all been that officer
where you get the people thatwant to know and you've got to
flip it and look at it fromtheir perspective and you know
there's things that you can'tsay.
You know there's somesituations where you can't
divulge information.
But you can say, hey, you knowwe had a disturbance, or hey,
there was an incident involvingyour neighbors.
Everything's okay, everything'ssafe, you're safe.

(21:01):
Give them a something.
I literally had the samesituation happen when I was
coming home and there was sixpolice cars in my neighborhood
and I went up to the officer andI asked them and I was in
uniform, by the way.
I asked them, hey, everythingokay, do I need to worry about
anything?
And he goes don't worry aboutit, nothing you didn't know.

(21:22):
And I was like, wow, that waskind of rude and I said that to
his face.
He's, that was kind of rude andI said that to his face.
He's like, well, I don't havetime for this right now.
So I walked over to hissupervisor and I told him what?
Just the experience of hissupervisor told me everything I
wanted to know.
But I was like, hey, man, youmight want to get your officer
in check.
There there's a little bit ofattitude, especially, you know,
coming from another officerright.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
So, vaughn, I want to get your take on this.
I like he's giggling already.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
This is an entire semester of what not to do.
You're right, it's not illegal.
But the thing is is, you know,professionals, we get better as
things get worse and we takecontrol of the communication
outcomes.
We don't let other peoplecontrol them.
And she didn't do any of that.
Now my thing about her motive.
Like you're right, we're, ifyou're not threatened.
You know this idea of commandpresence.

(22:06):
What she was doing was tryingto exert what she understood to
be as command presence to takecontrol of the situation.
That other guy was not at allintimidated, he wasn't concerned
, he came up, he answered thequestion and you see that.
So, as a supervisor, when yousee her like, hey, come here,
let me let's, and you say youcould have avoided all that, and
you war game it.

(22:27):
Because we do war game thisspecific scenario, and sometimes
you literally do not have timeto explain yourself, nor are you
legally required to explainyourself when you're in the
middle of an investigation,right, and so if you say, like
when I was working in the innercity, I used to say stuff like,
hey, you know what, I wouldn'tput your business out there.

(22:48):
I don't want to put these,these people business out there,
let me deal with that.
I'll come back to you andexplain to you as much as I can,
but let me go make sure we dealwith this first.
And if you're telling them, I'mnot disrespecting, I'm going to
come back and talk to you.
It's just not going to happenright now.
So I get to maintain control ofthe time, place and location of
my interactions, but I'm notbeing so dismissive.
Most people understand that andreally for me it was easy when

(23:10):
I'd say, because they knew,would you want me telling
everybody in the city yourbusiness if I respond to your
house on a call and they knowthat they don't want that?
So I'm like no, I don't want toput their business out, let me
go talk to them.
Then I'll come back to you andtell you as much as I can.
But if I was, if I was you andthis is the empathy thing, look,
it was my, it was myneighborhood I'd wonder the same
thing.
So let me go deal with this,let me come back and I'll

(23:30):
explain to you as much as I can,but just hang out here for a
second and and I will find you.
So all that doesn't take aslong as the 15 seconds it took
me to say it, right.
So you control the outcome ofthat and you set the tone.
Control the outcome with with alot more conveyed respect,
right, but having said that, youknow, like she didn't do
anything wrong or whatever, shedidn't do it as well as she

(23:53):
could have done it, and asupervisor needs to pull her
over or pull her aside and trainher to that what she's actually
trying to achieve the end stateof command, presence and
displaying confidence andcompetence.
She did the opposite.
She ended up doing the opposite, coming across like she was
afraid and she was alreadybowing up to say I'm not afraid

(24:15):
of you, but it was very clearshe was not comfortable at that
interaction, which was probablythe opposite of what she wanted
as a goal.
So I think, once you get heroff to the side, you explain hey
, we have the same goal.
You want to exert confidenceand competence and take control
of the situation.
Let me give you some ideas onhow to do that better.
That's going to leave themfeeling better about the
interaction, leave you feelingless stressed about the

(24:36):
interaction.
And again, I say it's a semester, because this is precisely what
verbal Judo was designed to do.
It's what realisticde-escalation does.
It's what community tacticalcommunication programs do.
There is a lot now I Will endwith.
I'll end with this I Didn't seea lot of cops do this and act
like this, but we always knewwho on the department would Do.

(25:01):
But thankfully this was reallyunusual.
I mean, we had 300 300 persondepartment, so it wasn't huge.
But, um, I would say,overwhelmingly most people knew
how to manage communication muchbetter than what we saw there
and the ones that didn't.
If you passed out a three byfive card, the entire department

(25:22):
would have them on that card.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
I know exactly what you mean.
Go ahead, Vanny.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I'm going to read this, mr Belfold good comment.
It says police ought tounderstand that we match energy
with police and we needlevel-headed officers to deal
with people like me who can be aprick from time to time.
I think Mr Belfold and I wouldprobably have a great time in a
bar.
Here's what I've seen acrossdoing an investigation If

(26:01):
anybody's up from the generalpublic to the news media, yada
yada, yada.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Banning's breaking up pick on bond's internet is the
pio am I good now?

Speaker 1 (26:21):
yeah, it might be a green screen.
Yes, no for whatever reason,green screens tend to screw
things up.
Am I good now?
Yeah, it might be your greenscreen.
Yes, now.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
For whatever reason, green screens tend to screw
things up.
I know.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
Turn that off Working .

Speaker 1 (26:38):
All right, yeah, we can hear you.
You're just choppy.
You're good right now.
Go for it.
Yeah, people are in thecomments.
Yeah, you're glitching brother.
You piece of shit.
Get rid of that freaking greenscreen.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
How many screens do you have open?

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, I don't know why the he said he's going to
come back in five, so um.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Hey, I would tell you this, eric, like just for the,
for the people in the audienceum, probably judo, which I.
I really liked it it's.
I've gone on from that programto other other ones now but they
broke people down into threepeople.
Remember, it was nice,difficult and wimps.
And nice people are the peoplewho did what you asked the first
time.
You asked with no questions,because you were the police and
they had respect for the police,they trusted the police and so

(27:34):
they recognized your authority,the job you had to do.
You asked them to do something.
They did.
Those are nice people.
Difficult people are the peoplewho ask why, why do I need to do
that?
Why, why, why, why?
And then wimps were the oneswho did what you said but then
turned around and complainedabout you and made stuff up
after the fact.
It simply didn't reflect thereality.
But when we say difficultpeople, uh, I love, I love the

(27:55):
the comment, because when yousay difficult people, that's us,
they're talking about us, we,we are just as much those
difficult people that move tothis profession.
So we're not going to do whatpeople tell us to do simply
because they tell us to do it.
We're typically going to be thewhy, the why, guys.
But we also can hear.
Let me get right back to you.

(28:15):
So I love that match energy withenergy, match respect with
respect.
Um, and it's a smaller respect,not a bigger respect.
I don't know you well enough toknow if I respect you.
You might be making a wholebunch of life choices that I
absolutely don't respect.
A small R respect allows me totreat you the way I would want
to be treated under similarcircumstances.
So if you come up and ask me aquestion and I legitimately

(28:38):
can't really answer it in thatmoment, the empathy and the
respect is to just take thefifth or five seconds to explain
that and circle back, like Italked about earlier.
But I love that match energywith energy because if they're
not being an auditor and they'renot trying to escalate you
intentionally, then that'sexactly right.
They'll respect the time youtook with them, even if it might

(29:02):
not have been as much as theywanted and to officers out there
listening.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
So the education for what we try to do on this
program is both ways, and itprimarily it didn't start out
this way, guys but primarilymost of the education we try to
put out is towards cops.
So get pissed off all you want.
It seems like cops need moretraining than civilians do.
So as much as I thought I wasgoing to come on here and
educate civilians on the waythat police do things, this show

(29:30):
has evolved and shown me that Ineed to help show cops
different perspectives.
It's not that I'm going to tellyou how to do your job.
I'm just going to show youdifferent ways to think of
things.
So in this, something toconsider is one the secret
squirrel stuff, and this is whatI talk about a lot on here.

(29:50):
There's things you can'tdivulge, and you know that
there's.
Sometimes you can't really sayanything.
But there are certain thingsyou can say hey, I'm just, and
this goes into emotionalintelligence and stuff like that
.
Hey, I'm just, and this goesinto emotional intelligence and
stuff like that.
Hey, I'm just, I'm a lowhanging fruit on this department
.
I can't tell you anything butmy supervisor's right over there

(30:12):
.
Do you want me to bring himover here and see if he can tell
you anything, because I wasjust told to watch this spot and
that's what I'm going to do,all right.
All right, sir, I appreciateyou telling, telling me that
you're being honest, you'retelling them what's up, and that
is another way to look at this.
So it's not you didn't, youdidn't tell him anything, but
you told him something.
Versus it's none of yourbusiness, this is a police

(30:34):
matter.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well, add to that, eric, when you do the empathy
thing, what are they actuallyasking you?
They want to know am I safe, ismy family safe, is there
anything for me to have to worryabout?
You can answer that veryquickly.
If it's a violent domesticacross the street, you can say,
hey, right now I'm not reallysure you guys are safe, your
family's safe.
I think it's pretty isolatedover there.
Let me go figure out what'sgoing on.
Answer the question they'reasking, even if they don't know.

(30:57):
That's what they're asking.
Yeah, yeah that's that.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
That's exactly right banning.
Are you back, buddy?
I?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
don't know, can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (31:03):
yeah, you sound good, you sound smooth, I like it.
So you're moving, you're notglitching, so that's a plus.
So you are just for uh, mr billfolds, uh, satisfaction.
You are you, you're not alandoing an ai thing right now,
right, no, yeah would you and mrbill Would?
you guys have a safe word.

(31:24):
I'm looking at the comments.
Patrick true love said exactlyLike I said earlier, people
don't get taught how to think.
They get taught what to thinkStarting very early ages.
A country girl said, like Ericsaid, hire prior bartenders.

(31:45):
We have great skills dealingwith personality types.
Yeah, one of the things thatI've pushed out here is give me
a Starbucks barista, give me abartender in a big city you know
, not even a big city Any.
Just give me somebody thatdeals in retail.
That is going to make a bettercop than the dude that knew he

(32:06):
was going to be a cop.
His whole life was a Boy Scout,then went into college, gets
his four-year degree in criminaljustice and then jumps into the
police department.
That guy is not going to be asgood of a cop as a Starbucks
barista, as a bartender or as aretail person.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Give me the girl who works Sephora on Black Friday.
I want her Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
She knows stress, she knows how to deal with people.
Yep that.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
I think you look at the generational thing too, like
I wish everybody would remember, including on our own
departments, that one-year copisn't going to be as good as the
five-year cop, as good as the10-year cop, and they are where
they're at, in the snapshot oftheir career and at their age
level and their experience level.
And so I think that's the thing, like when you talk about

(32:59):
community versus the policeperspective on this problem.
When you're supervising, you'retraining, mentoring, coaching
that person, you see it verydifferently.
You're seeing a one-year like Ican't imagine that girl had
been on very long at all.
Probably I wouldn't besurprised if she hadn't been off
probation very long, right, youbroke Vaughn, mr Millville, you

(33:23):
broke him right there, I saw it.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
My new safe word is for science.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Because, because, because he knows that's not the
safe word.
That's what.
That's what threw me.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I was like that's not safe oh my god, our audience is
out of control and I love it.
Shotguns and tattoos.
I don't know if I said hitonight, uh, saying hi to
everybody going through.
Oh, andy fletcher's on.
Andy fletcher gives a shit,just like mr billfold gives a
shit.
We have jared.
You're not used to this, but wedo have some very good uh

(33:54):
members that I.
I don't want to come out andsay they're anti-cop, they just
are hold authority to the firetype people and andy yeah, yeah,
andy Fletcher is one of them,mr Billfold's another one, and
they ask really hard questionsto ask.
They're very open to hearingwhat we have to say and stuff

(34:16):
like that.
So I just want to prepare youfor some of our guys that are
they're really, they're reallygood and have really changed the
way that I police.
It's kind of fun, uh, banning I.
I don't know if it's been thesame for you, because we've been
at this for a while, but theway our audience has interacted

(34:36):
with us has changed the way Ipoliced, um, in a good way this
is this, this platform I wish wehad, and not for our own,
whatever.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I just wish more people had access and they could
watch.
I mean, we put our pants on thesame way everybody else does,
and this is an amazing platform.
All these people that arecoming on here.
I absolutely love the commentsthat are coming out of this.
I think it would make every copbetter.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Absolutely, brandon 86,.
Do cops not understand thatthey can cause panic when they
gather in bunches and then tellpublic nothing?
Suspicion in the public I perse, and I agree, and I think
that's kind of the point thatthis guy was making in the video
is that hey, I got four fuckingcop cars in my apartment
complex and you're telling meit's not my concern.

(35:25):
That's not a normal response.
Two cars, maybe we don't seefour piled up?
Tell me something, am I atleast safe?

Speaker 3 (35:37):
I defend this girl a little bit too.
I hate to defend her.
Well, I'll defend her because,again, I think she's new.
But there is a difference.
I think we all agree.
If somebody comes up and says,hey, what's going on?
But when you started, what'syour name, what's your badge,
and I'm going to have a phone inyour face, tell me what's going
on.
What they're doing is takingcontrol of that scene from the

(35:58):
officer.
They're intentionally trying totake control and what cops know
, and what I think a lot ofpeople understand, is that
people are safer when policemaintain unquestioned command at
the scene of investigations.
That's a Supreme Court quoteand it ruffles you, even as a
citizen.
I'm like.
I don't like the idea ofunquestioned command.
We're built on questions, right.

(36:20):
But when someone comes up withthe camera demanding my name, my
badge, number, who mysupervisor, and demanding me to
explain in that moment what I'mdoing, we can't pretend that the
guy wasn't trying to antagonize.
We just can agree she didn'thandle the antagonism very well.
But I do think that there areplenty of people who have come
up and asked us that who didn'thave a camera in their hand or
seem legitimately concernedabout what was going on.

(36:43):
I don't think he was one ofthem.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, mr Belford said amen, jared, we will defend you
guys from trolls, not asbootlickers, but because you
guys take our message to yourfellow officers.
You police your own, we policeour community chat here, and
that's very true.
Um, we've, we've earned thattype of respect from our guys.
Love it, sigma Lord, anotherone that has definitely put our

(37:05):
feet to the fire.
Do not have to follow illegalor unethical orders.
Very true.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Let me just talk to that for a second.
Here's the challenge with that.
That's absolutely true.
I don't know about unethical.
The whole concept of unethicalis who decides what's ethical or
not?
That's a priority of humaninterests, right?
Who decides what's ethical inthat moment?
The problem is how frequentlypolice officers are challenged

(37:34):
for something that they haveevery right to do legally, but
the community member has no ideathat they have a legal right to
do it.
So I've always said that thehardest people to control are
innocent people, because if Ilegally stop you for an
investigation, I have reasonablesuspicion to believe you've
committed an offense and youdidn't commit the offense.

(37:57):
You have the benefit of knowingyou're innocent.
I don't know that yet, and yetI still have all the legal
rights to stop you, detain youfor a reasonable period of time
to confirm or alleviate mysuspicions.
Oftentimes we pull people overand we give orders that citizens
have no idea they're requiredto obey.
And so if they tell themselves,I don't have to obey illegal

(38:19):
orders, but they don't know whata legal versus illegal order is
, that's a problem, that's achallenge.
That's a problem.
That's a challenge, that's atension point.
And so when I do some of thesecommunity groups.
I did this the one I was tellingyou about before we started
today up in seattle, I gaveeverybody a non-quiz quiz,
because people get nervous withquizzes.
So I gave them a non-quiz quizand I just basically asked them

(38:40):
and it was attorneys, it wasjudges, it was probation
officers, it was cops, it wasattorneys, it was judges, it was
probation officers, it was cops, it was victim advocates and it
was basically just sort of likeTerry stops stuff what's the
standard for when police canstop you and legally detain you?
And they failed it miserably.
The judge failed it miserably.
The attorneys failed itmiserably.
They had no idea what cops cando and when they can do it.

(39:03):
So that's where we have to havethat public education side.
It's sort of like for a longtime and your individual cities
might be different, but where Iwas from, you never had a legal
right to ask me for my name andmy badge number and my
supervisor, and you certainlyhad no right to disobey lawful

(39:23):
police orders.
Until I provided a supervisor,the order coming from me was
sufficient.
Now we start to see peoplechallenging the police, saying
you got to get your supervisorhere, so I need you to step out
of the car and like well, I needyour name and badge number, I
need your supervisor, and theyimagine that they have that
right as a citizen to disobeyorders or decide when they're

(39:45):
going to obey orders until theyget the information they want.
So they can be arrested forthat.
Now, how many citizens know, inmany, many jurisdictions you
can be arrested if you don'timmediately comply with a lawful
order, and it's up to you toknow what a lawful order is.
And so that's the tension pointof the challenge with that.
I wanted to kind of touch onthat because it comes up an

(40:07):
awful lot.
Now.
The mature police officer isgoing to recognize when you're
in that situation and you'regoing to be like okay, right now
, let me explain to you.
I'm giving you a lawful orderand I think you know that you're
asking me for information.
I'm going to love to give thatto you, but I can't do that
right now.
I'm going to give you someinstructions and they're
important, and then you givethem the instructions.
So there's days, there'sdifferent ways to manage those

(40:28):
interactions, but that's justkind of.
I wanted to address that when Isaw that comment, because that
does come up a lot.
Our favorite is in your head.
And I'll end on this like wewould train cops do not react
when people become the wipers orthey.
They start demanding your nameand badge number or your
supervisor and they refuse toobey your lawful orders until

(40:50):
they get certain answers.
I said I want you to name thatperson in your head and then
have a response to that person,not a reaction.
So if you name it, you canrespond.
If you don't name it and youallow yourself to react to it,
then the first words that comeout of your mouth are not going
to be the best words.
So anticipate it.
When you see it, name it inyour head and then respond

(41:10):
professionally to it.
So we would call those thesecond year law student.
Because every second year lawstudent you know they come out
of law school their second year.
They know all the law betterthan you do because they took
criminal law, criminal procedure.
What they don't realize is theydon't know any of the law like
a cop knows it, who'soperationalized that law every
day.
And so in your head we look outat the second year law student.

(41:32):
But once you do that and youcan empathize with them, you can
go from there, you can diffuseit, so I'll stop there.
It was an interesting comment.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Patrick True Love said just because you have a
camera in your hand doesn't meanyou're there to antagonize
Vaughn and I'm not going tospeak for Vaughn, but I don't
think that was what was beingconveyed.
But Freeman Keys followed upVaughn.
That phrase phone in my facebothers me Very seldom is it in
their face?
It's usually five to 10 feetaway.

(42:04):
Also bothers me very seldom isthere.
Is it in their face?
It's usually five to ten feetaway also.
Thank you for answering myinitial question.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Brilliant answers love this channel yeah, and
freeman's absolutely right.
Most of the time it you know ifsomebody's just holding it
against their chest, feeling Igot no problem with you film all
day.
I got a camera on my chest too,you know.
But it is when you know theyhave the phone like this and
they're, you know it.
Sometimes it does get in yourface and it's an annoyance and
it's a distraction yeah, yeah,absolutely.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Uh, shotguns and tattoos.
Thanks, tcod.
I now lovingly refer to mybro-in-law as deputy fuckface.
I'm glad I could help out.
That's what I do.
Um, I may not have theintelligence of vaughn and the
style that Jared has up here,but you know what I can bring
fuckface to the table foranybody.
Brandar 86.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Brandon's give an example of that, brandar,
because that's probably we'llprobably all agree on the answer
.
So let's figure out what is it.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Okay, let me read it out, because we do end up
playing these later on in ourpodcast, which is just audio.
So Brandar86 said what aboutthe cases where there are cops
that think they have a legalright to do something but the
public knows they are wrong?
That is a fucking greatquestion.
So, Vaughn, you want to tacklethat?

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yeah, so I'll give you a good example of it.
Well, if he wants to give us anexample, I have one.
That does happen, but I want toknow what his is, and then we
can go off there, okay.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Sounds good.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
If he doesn't, I'll have one.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Okay, sounds good.
Also, mr Billfold, there is acase that I have the video
actually already pulled up.
Let me find it All right, hereit is.
So I'm going to pull this videoup.
Brandr86, I want you to findthat case.
I did want to pull this one up.

(43:52):
I have covered this before onthe podcast, maybe on a reel or
a short, but there's been afollow-up with this one, so I
kind of want to talk about thisone and discuss it.
Let me share the screen here.
Okay, so I have covered inlength.
Let's biggysize this one.
I've covered in length aboutcops getting the finger given to

(44:17):
them Right there.
You as an officer cannot beoffended.
Now, you can be personallyoffended.
You can be like oh, thatoffends me, but you as a cop
cannot act on that offense.
You need somebody else to beoffended by the gesture or their
language.
That depends on your state aswell.

(44:37):
Some states don't have it,others do, but the Supreme Court
has upheld that.
You as a police officer and Idon't have the court case in
front of me, but I've postedbefore.
It begins with a G Grizzel,grizzel, grizzel, something like
that.
I can't remember what it is,but the count as any of that
shit if all they simply did wasgive you the finger when they

(44:59):
drove by.
So with that in mind, let'swatch, uh, this oh hold on
before we get too far.
I want to give credit to whoeverthe hell this guy is.

(45:22):
Let me un-biggy size it realquick the civil rights lawyer on
YouTube, so I'm going to givecredit to him.
This is his video that we'reusing right now 873,000
subscribers.
Make sure you guys give himcredit for this, like, subscribe

(45:46):
, do all the things.
Thank you, uh, civil rightslawyer, for this video.
Um, okay, let me re-biggie sizethis and play certain hand
signal that you got to give away.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
Is that why you yes?
Driver's license.
Registration for insurancebeautiful.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
You just fucking owned this cop because he said
is that why you pulled me over?
And you said yes, you're afucking idiot.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
I don't understand.
Like nothing brings me more joythan when I see a gangbanger on
his bicycle flip me off, andthen I get on my PA and say love
you too, babe.
Like I don't understand why youget so offended.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Like it makes me laugh every time it happens.
Have fun with it.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
It makes me laugh every time ithappens.
Have fun with it.
Yeah, yeah, yes.
David Edmondson, un-biggie sizethat's what I do when I smallie
size it.
These guys love when I saybiggie size, for some reason.
I grew up when McDonald's wasvery controversial.
They started biggie sizingthings.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
When you get the full-size candy bars at
Halloween, are those the biggiesize?

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Those are the biggie size.
Yes, yes, that's a biggie sizecandy bar, absolutely so now
that we know that this guy was,uh, I'm going.
The point is is not why theypulled this guy, it is why they
pulled this guy over.

Speaker 5 (46:58):
I want to get into the the follow-up of what
happened with this improper handdisplay if I have to say it one
more time, to provide me withthe documents I'm going to place
you under arrest.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
I want to point out that one officer was talking the
contact officer and then thisguy come over and says if I have
to say it one more time, bitch,you didn't say anything Ever.
You didn't have any contactwith the driver.
Did anybody else notice that?
I'm like what are you talkingabout?

(47:29):
You didn't say shit, so let'skeep going.
Okay, so now that you guys haveseen that, um, we don't need to
get into the entirety of thevideo.
I want to get into thefollow-up and this is my point
and and this was mr billfold'spoint things that we don't think

(47:52):
about as cops.
This guy ends up gettingarrested, okay, so he goes to
jail for essentially giving thefinger contempt of cop yeah,
pissed off police, pissed offpolice.
He goes to jail.
Now, what I like to push outthere is like, bro, you got it
made, you just won an easylawsuit.

(48:13):
And one of the things that Idon't consider and don't think
about and this is what MrBelfold pointed out is this guy
lost his job.
It was a two year process.
He didn't get that money rightaway.
He had to figure out hisfucking life for those next two
years.
So you cops out there whenyou're thinking, like I was

(48:35):
thinking and this is how we getoutside of ourselves and this is
one of the benefits of thisshow is we get to hear outside
perspectives, and this is whyyou shouldn't ban people from
your page just because they'renot an echo chamber and they're
not saying what you like to hear.
I never thought about it thatthis guy got fired from his job.
Now he's on the struggle busfor the next two.

(48:57):
Maybe he loved his job, even ifhe wins a shitload of money.
Maybe he wanted to keep doingit, who knows?
But now he just lost his jobbecause you, as the police
officer, got contempt of cop, asjared pointed out, and tried to
make up some bullshit.
Uh, for what is this guy outthere robbing?

(49:18):
This is one of my frustrationswith cops, and when I see this
shit I get so fucking mad Likeyou just fucked.
Oh, you got to understand thepower we have as police officers
.
You have the right to takesomebody's freedom away.
What is the one thing that weuphold in this country?

(49:39):
Above all?
That everybody comes in forfreedom and we have the right to
take it away.
That is an awesome power, andif you're not taking it serious,
you have no business in thisprofession.
And that is the point of thisvideo.
That is what I see when I hearabout the follow-up.

(50:00):
And this guy lost his job.
He had a two-year process.
Now I'm sure he's going to wina boatload of money.
That's beside the point.
The point is we just caused allof that to go on.
I think Banning's finallytrying to get back in.
We just caused all of that togo on.
I think Banning's finallytrying to get back in.
We just caused all of that tocontinue to happen.

(50:21):
And what if he doesn't win?
I'm sure he will, by the way,but what if he doesn't win?
Like what do you got Jared?

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I mean I feel sorry for the guy, like yeah, he was a
dick, but he didn't deserve togo to a jail for contempt of cop
.
Like I said, if somebody flipsme off, who cares?
It doesn't ruin my day, it justmakes me laugh.
So I don't understand whypeople get so upset about it.
Even like road rage incidents,people get shot for flipping

(50:51):
other people off with road rage.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Right, yeah, steve Wallace said freedom of speech
doesn't protect against fightingwords or exciting the public.
Um true, uh, but Supreme courthas ruled flipping off a cop in
traffic is freedom of speech andis not exciting.
The public's not doing anything.
Now, if you're like, I'm gonnablow up everybody in the road,

(51:20):
that's a little different.
So, vaughn, what do you gotbuddy yeah, that one.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
it hurts my heart.
Yeah, none of that looked good.
I don't like any of it.
The uh, there was one time Iwas riding with a cop and two
things and this is going tosound so sad to you guys these
things broke my heart, I feltthem.
One of my FTOs crumpled up apiece of paper and threw it out
the window of the patrol carSomething really simple and I

(51:50):
was like it crushed my idea ofwhat I thought cops were early,
simple, and I was like itcrushed my idea of what I
thought cops were right early.
The second one was some guyflipped us off and my partner
looked at him and flipped himoff back and I was like what are
you?
doing like we're the police.
We don't do that like sort ofthing.
So not only do we not arrestpeople for it, you remain
professional when that stuffhappens that that's such a

(52:10):
non-issue to me.
I can't believe people areactually still arresting people
for the international distresssigns.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
For telling them they're number one.
I want to go back, they'renumber one yeah, there's.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
No, I'd like to say it's silly, but there's nothing
silly about that.
Back to that other question,though, about the, because you
don't know what's going tohappen to them in jail either.
I worked in jails long enoughto know you go put somebody in
jail for a couple of nights onsome nonsense.
They come out with stab wounds,they come out beat up, they
come out life altered, I don'tcare who they are.
Yeah, there's a lot of, there'sa lot of badness.

(52:44):
So back to the other thing whatdo you do when a citizen says a
citizen knows what the cop'sdoing is illegal?
What do you do?
So I have two hats for that.
Um, yeah, that's nonsense.
The uh.
The first one is as a legaladvisor.
If my client calls me on a cellphone and he's like, hey, uh,
this is what's happening outhere, I don't have to do that,

(53:04):
right, I go.
No, you don't.
But you also don't get to resistarrest, you also get to fight.
There's no exception forbattery on a law enforcement
officer because they wereviolating your constitutional
right, unless you live in ajurisdiction where they are
using excessive force and you'redefending yourself against
excessive force.

(53:25):
But you better be right,because a lot of people believe
what force cops are using isexcessive and it ends up being
perfectly reasonable andjustified.
But there are jurisdictionsthat say you can defend yourself
against excessive force.
But the other thing is, as acop, as a supervisor, we went on
a knock and talk, right.

(53:46):
So what a knock and talk is forthose who don't know, you just
knock on a door because maybesomebody said I think these guys
are selling dope.
But you set up, you dosurveillance on the house.
You don't want to see anythingindicative of drug sales, and so
one of the last things you dois just go knock on a door,
introduce yourself and and tryto you know, either confirm or
alleviate suspicions.
That way it's just a knock andtalk, purely consensual.

(54:11):
And they're like sure, come oninto the house.
So you go on into the house thathappens quite a bit and there's
a guy sitting on the couch andhe's staring at the TV.
He refuses to look at it, soit's the no, look right.
When someone refuses to look atyou, it's something you should
pay attention to.
So you're sitting there andhe's just staring at the TV.
Now two cops walk into yourliving room.
You that you should notice thatit's not illegal, um, but it's

(54:37):
off.
It's an anomaly off thebaseline.
Well, he has a fanny pack onand we're all pretty sure
there's a gun.
So when the cops pull you overand legally detain you, if they
have reasonable suspicion tobelieve you're presently armed
and dangerous, they can pat youdown for weapons.
Um, so my partner that day seesthis guy.
He's like uh, what's in yourfanny pack?
The guy won't answer me.
Go, stand up, get your hands onthe wall, I'm gonna pat you
down.
Now every cop who's listeningto this should realize this is a

(55:00):
knock and talk.
This is purely consensual.
You don't get to pat peopledown during a knock and talk or
during a consensual contact.
You can ask permission, but ifthey're like but this guy said
nothing, he just kept staring.
So the guy says stands up, putyour hands, I want to pat you
down.
My job in that moment like talkabout duty to intervene before
it was cool was hey, hey, comehere for a second.

(55:21):
I'm sorry, just hang, I have aseat there for a second.
I told my partner you know what, let's, why don't we go and
take you guys?
Thanks very much.
And we left.
I got him out of there.
We left and then I explained tohim like what are you doing,
man?
You don't just get to patpeople down in their own houses
during a knock and talk.
This isn't a domestic.
We have a legal right to behere.
We have a legal right to bethere, but we don't have a legal
right to be there over theirobjection.
So that was it.

(55:42):
As a cop, you have to intervenewhen you recognize that the
citizen has to be the one toforce their own violation.
So that was one, but it gets alittle less innocuous, a little
more innocuous.
I had the benefit of being apolice legal advisor and a
prosecutor, but I kept comingback and working as a cop at the
same time.
So I would do both.
So we get into, evolved in a andI'm stabbing and we're people

(56:05):
took off running.
I'm dealing with the, thegunshot victim, um, and
literally it's like out of amovie, dragging her behind the
car, ducking down while shotsare fired.
They all run into a house.
Fast forward.
We got medical there.
We got to now start executingsearch warrants.
We got to figure out what'sgoing on, where the shooters
went.

(56:30):
Detectives show up and they sayall right, let's get all these
witnesses and take them down tothe station for questioning.
Now again, the cops should allrecognize you don't get to just
take people down to the stationfor questioning I don't care
what they did on TV, right?
You can't forcibly removesomebody from the scene without
their permission unless they'reunder arrest, right?
And so there's very, very fewexceptions.
I won't even get into what theexceptions are because they're

(56:50):
so rare.
But for the lawyers in the room, yeah, I got it, there are some
exceptions.
But I just looked at thedetective and I said do you mean
you want us to ask them?
You want us to see if they'rewilling to come down to the
station for questioning?
And he's like, looks at me.
I was like we can't literallyforce them to come down, which
was his intent.
That's exactly what he wantedus to do is get them in the back
of the car to the station.

(57:11):
So again, it's recognizing iton behalf of the citizen and
going let's intervene, let's fixthis, so the citizen doesn't
have to, right?
So those are the things I wouldtell you.
Don't fight the police, even ifyou're right.
Obviously, defend yourselfagainst clearly excessive use of
force.
I think we all would, you knowand uh, but how?

(57:35):
What do you do when whatthey're doing is illegal?
As a legal advisor, I would sayyou have to ride it out.
Ride it out, even like in thiscase.
If that guy would have calledme and said hey, I flipped them
off, I would say look, man, Ican try to get there to the
scene and help you out.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Sometimes attorneys will do that they might not like
it if I show up, but if I can'tget there to help you out,
you're going to have to take theride and then you'll see the
action.
Yeah, I tell everybody kiss thecops with kindness, make your
objection known, let them know.
Hopefully you're recording andif not, ask the officer.
Can I start recording on myphone?
I want to use my phone torecord.
Is that okay?
Because let a cop tell you no,let a cop tell you no.

(58:16):
He might ask where's your phoneat and you'd be like it's right
here.
I got it, it's in my pocket,all right.
But when I pull people over, Iencourage them to start
recording.
Hey, real quick, I'm going tobe recording.
I want to make this opportunityfor you to start recording as
well, for you to start recordingas well.
And, oh my God, does thatdiffuse things right away?
And say okay, sergeant Levine,the reason I pulled you over is

(58:38):
this Is there any reason why youwere doing that?
If I pulled you over, you wereprobably doing something pretty
egregious anyway, because Idon't do traffic, but I want to
get to the what do you think,eric, about the situation?

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Because this was when we were doing a lot of gang
investigations, workingstreet-level gangs and drugs.
The police are allowed tomaintain status quo, right,
you're allowed to freeze thescene.
That means they don't get toget on their phone and start
calling people to join them,because back in the day, at
least while I was rolling around, they would call for people to
come shoot at us, to distract us, to rob.

(59:15):
So our thing was no, leave itwhere it's at.
You don't get to touch yourphone.
You don't get to startrecording and make phone calls.
Understanding, it's not a legalrecord.
The problem is we don't know ifthey're recording or if they're
saying.
For example, I got a real worldcase I dealt with where the dude
got pulled over, had all thedope had got pulled over, had
all the dope, had all the guns,because he had just shot at us.
And then he loaded up his carand was trying to move the stuff

(59:37):
because he thought the housewas hot.
Right, he thought he'd shot atus at the house.
Everything kind of slowed down.
He thought the house was hot.
So he went back, loadedeverything up and was
transplanted.
He got pulled over again, asluck would have it, and he's on
that phone calling in backup,just like we would call him back
up.
He's calling in all the backupbecause it was that important to
him to protect that stash.
So that's a tension pointbecause, on the one hand, an

(01:00:00):
innocent person is just going towant to film for their own
protection, but we have enoughwhat we call tactical SOPs,
suspects, criminal tactical SOPsthat involve the phone.
They start deleting text orthey start calling people to
come back.
So there's a challenge, right?
There's a tension point between, you know, operation security,

(01:00:22):
tactical security and criminaloperating procedures and then
innocent people just trying todocument, right, and I think
that all comes down to what isyour function.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
If I'm just in patrol and I'm making regular patrol
stops, I don't really think Ihave the argument to make like
other than hey, you know, let memake sure that I want you to
record.
If you want to record, Is thatwhat you want to do?
Okay, cool, Let me see you turnthat on and start recording.
And then please just don't messwith your phone once you start

(01:00:50):
recording.
I mean, that goes intocommunication and again it goes
into emotional intelligence,Like I want to think that I can
tell.
I can't always tell, but Iwould like to think that I can.
And that goes into you as theofficer.
I'm going to let each officerdetermine that on their own.
I can't speak for you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Well, the other lesson, the less serious one, is
when they call their parentsand their parents or brothers
would show up at the car stop.
And now you're dealing with anirate parent of a 22-year-old

(01:01:34):
should charge dumb cops likethis.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
They should stop it from happening in the long term.
And I, in this particular case,I fired and I don't necessarily
agree with charged.
I don't know.
I don't know enough.
I got to know more about thecase.
Now to what Mr Billfold wantedto point out was this guy did
four days in jail.
Now to what Mr Billfold wantedto point out was this guy did
four days in jail.

(01:01:56):
We just took this guy's freedomfor four days, so that's
something that in itself, ifthat's all that this case holds
on, is that they gave a middlefinger and this guy got four
days in jail.
You deserve to be fired.
Fuck you.
Fuck you Right away.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I think you got to go to the other thing too.
Some of these cops don't knowany better either.
So when you look at a criminalcharge versus a civil charge,
civil is typically where you goget their money because that's
easy.
Go take their money for a clearviolation like that.
If you go criminal, dependingon the state you start looking
at was it malevolent?
Did he actually know what hewas doing was wrong and did it

(01:02:37):
anyway?
When I see something like that,I got to believe these two guys
who are doing it on body camerain front of other people in
public daylight have no ideathat they can't do that.
They believe 100% they can dothat legally.
So do we criminally chargepeople who don't realize they're
breaking the law without notice?
Now that's not an excuse and ifthere's a criminal charge,

(01:02:59):
they're usually.
The criminal charge for cops isthat you have to show there was
a level of intentionality.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
They knew what they were doing was wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
They did it anyway with a level of malevolence, and
your own statute will tell youwhat that standard is Because,
granted, in my line of work wesee bad policing all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
We do.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
We see good policing much more often, and so we have
a pretty good, I think a prettygood balance.
But I do draw that distinctionBefore I started seeing DOJ and
criminal charges, if they knewwhat they were doing was wrong.
You guys saw the Memphis caseright.
I don't think there was a copin the world who thought you
could do what they did in thatcase yeah right and I think the,

(01:03:41):
I think the quick, the quick uh, the quick uh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Criminal justice response was evidence of that
yeah, um, one of the otherthings that um came from this
video is that the cops end upmuting their video and then
sitting back smoking a cigaretteyou know poking and joking.
At the end, and ConstitutionalCountry Girl said I despise body

(01:04:06):
cameras.
Muting should not be allowed.
I have had this conversation inlength and I I'll put it out
there and then, jared, I'll letyou go on this one, uh, and then
banning to see if his fuckingoh shit, I'm kicking my camera.
Um, we'll see if banning'sconnection will allow him to

(01:04:26):
speak, but, um, I am, I am withher.
I do not think there is anyreason for a patrol officer to
be muting their camera.
I think everything.
After the fact, if somethingneeds to be redacted on a
Freedom of Information Act, sobe it.
Figure it out.
But I am not a fan of mutingperiod.

(01:04:51):
I don't.
I do not unless it's like atactical unit like SWAT that is
very rarely used but has theirown things and most of that
information is going to beredacted anyway.
Okay, give them that ability,but not a patrol officer Like
and that's the meat and potatoesof what we got going on.
I am not a fan of mutingcameras.

(01:05:12):
So, jared, what do you say?

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
yeah, I mean it could go either way.
I I do mute my camera um, butit's never at a time when it's
um of an evident, evidentiaryvalue.
So I'll mute it for two reasons, you know.
One is when the officers get towhat we call the huddle, we all
come together say what do yougot?
What do you got, what do yougot?
And we kind of decipher.
We'll all mute then, and thenwe break and we go back to

(01:05:37):
handling the call for service.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
We're unmuted again okay, hold on, hold on, go ahead
.
I I'm just want to give you myperspective on on that mentality
.
Wouldn't it be evidentiary,beneficial to anybody that has
to look at, if something came ofthat case, what all of you guys
had?

(01:05:58):
hey, this officer has this, thisperson has this, and this is
how we came to the conclusion wecame to.
I feel like that would be ofevidentiary like value to that,
and I think we have a culture inpolicing that we're not
necessarily conscious of that.
We were kind of told oh, weshould mute right here because

(01:06:21):
we're talking about the case,and and so that's just how I'm
kind of looking at that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
No, no, that completely makes sense.
Let me backtrack.
So when I say coming togetheras the huddle, most of the time
it's when we have an OIT officerin training, so they're going
to come to us and start tellingus what they have and we're
coaching them back.
I don't necessarily want thatcoaching to go to court, I don't
want him court-knowing andpre-setting him up to where he
didn't know what he was doing.

(01:06:46):
So that's what I say when I saythe huddle.
The other reason I do mute isif we are on a shit show of a
scene, I will check on myofficer.
I'll ground by the soldier,shoulder mute and say you good,
you need anything.
No, unmute, okay, okay, fair.
Those are the two types, fair.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
So it has happened what do you got banning?

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
are you able to hear me?
That's the first test I can'thear you I don't know what's up.
Slightly delayed, anyway.
So here's my thing on that, andI'm not going to go into the

(01:07:29):
manufacturers out there bodycameras.
But running a patrol division,I had the ability for the
officers to mute, for thedeputies to mute, okay, so they
would go, hit that button, but Iwould also communicate with
them.
Here's an email no longercommute if you're on a scene,
and that went away.
But I differ from most.

(01:07:51):
I've never muted a body camera.
I've never had a reason to muteit.
Most I've never muted a bodycamera.
And I've been that guy that'sleft a call and started another
deal for my camera to go tosomething else and maybe we
stopped at a, at a restroom andyou've had to request delete.
So I mean, you can do that whenit's you know what I'm saying.
You can, you can get rid ofstuff like that.

(01:08:12):
Once somebody in internalaffairs or professional
standards looks at it, you canget that to go away.
But to me personally, theentirety of the call I believe
should be on there.
I've never muted it.
In 21 years Okay, let's sayprobably 18 years with body
camera, I've never had a reasonto mute it.
Yeah, 18 years with body camera.

(01:08:32):

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
It just and it's never, yeah, and it also depends
on your department policy too.
Yeah, banning keeps glitchingthrough.
You're good Banning, it's allright, go ahead.
Uh, jared, what'd'd you have?

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
it all depends upon your department policy too.
You know, some departmentsdon't allow it all.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Some don't have a policy on it right, yeah, um,
let me see here, uh, cajun mfn.
I don't know what that means.
I'm not gonna guess eitherbecause I'll probably be way off
what?
What are your thoughts ondisarming a concealed carrier on
a traffic stop?

(01:09:19):
I saw a video the other day.
A female officer was taking aguy's gun off of him and shot
him in his leg with his own gun.
I'm so glad you brought that upbecause I actually went on the
Coley and Noir show podcast andwe discussed that in length
Colleen Noir show podcast and wediscussed that in length.
I've also discussed it on thepodcast.

(01:09:40):
In my opinion, being a cop inTexas, everybody's armed.
If we spent our time disarmingeverybody that's armed on a
regular old traffic stop becausethe guy was stopped for running
a red light, holy shit, our daywould be tied up.
There'd be four traffic stops aday because we're pulling
everybody out of their cars.
We're disarming them Like no.

(01:10:01):
It's the Second Amendment, rightIf we're just pulling them over
and all we have is a basictraffic violation?
no we should not be disarmingpeople.
You're actually at a moreadvantageous position if you
know they're armed.
You know where they're armedand they're sitting down in
their car.
Why are you pulling them out?
That's just my opinion.
Let me Mr Bill Foley's like hey, bitch, we already covered that

(01:10:28):
shit.
Quit asking old shit.
Let me see here.
Brandar 686 said why hide theirstate of mind in the situation?
You would document the crap outof a civilian to use their
mental state against them.
Should go both ways.
It sucks to be in the situation.

(01:10:49):
I don't necessarily think it'sum.
Let me say this I agree.
That's why I'm saying like Idon't want to mute.
I want you to get everything.
I want you to understand how wecame to the conclusion we came
to, even if they're shitty, evenif I have a rookie, and in
Jared's case, like again, itgoes into the culture of how you
guys police.

(01:11:10):
It's not right or wrong.
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying where mymindset is on.
Not muting is.
I want you to hear howridiculous a rookie sounds and
be like hey, this is why it'snot that I want to train you and
help you understand, and thenyou can.
You'll have a history, a record.
This is something that we'restill in the infancy guys.

(01:11:31):
Body cameras are in theirinfancy.
It is improving policing everysingle day.
So one of the things thatpolicing culture needs to get
behind is understanding that youcan learn where you were at as
a rookie, because there's somecops now that all they've ever
known is having a body cam andthen see where they became a cop
in five years versus where theybecame a cop in 10 years versus

(01:11:54):
where they became a cop in 10years because they had that body
cam and they've got that recordwhere they can see how they
thought and how they process thecrime scene or a call and then
jumped ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
So, as dumb as it sounds, you know, I tell the
rookie officers narrate.
While you're, you know, walkingup to a car, you're like, hey,
I have a heady over a marijuanaemitting from this car.
It sounds stupid.
When you're walking up to a car, you're like, hey, I have a
heady over of marijuana emittingfrom this car.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
It sounds stupid when you're doing it, but when you
go back for court it changesthings.
I consider myself the MorganFreeman of my calls.
It's really how I.
You think I'm joking?
I literally do.
And I'll even get on my cameraand be like all right, I'm going
to Morgan Freeman, my body cam,I'll say that out loud and I'll
watch my rookies look at melike did you just say that?

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
And I'm like, yeah, and then there's an interesting
perspective that comes up onthat question about recording or
not.
Politicians that are at workall the time making phone calls
on behalf of the community donot wear body cameras and do not
record their phone calls.
Calls on behalf of thecommunity do not wear body
cameras and do not record theirphone calls.
They, they are on duty, talkinggovernment business, and they

(01:13:02):
do not record those phone callsfor us to listen to at upon
demand.
When, when attorneys andbusiness leaders are
communicating by email or phonesand people do.
Freedom of information act.
One of the ways you can preventthe public from seeing those
discussions if it'spre-decisional, if it is just
conversation, as they'rebouncing ideas off each other

(01:13:25):
what do you like this, do youlike that?
Bad ideas, good ideas, and it'spre-decisional, and so there's
not a.
They say, there's not a publicinterest in it, and so they.
You can withhold it.
And I've always thought aboutthis Cops.
We have a case where cops kepttheir body cameras on and they
had every discussion.
Well, we already know whathappens to that.

(01:13:45):
The opposing counsel will getit and turn every, every
sentence, every word, and theywill cross-examine every
sentence, every word, when theofficer wasn officer, wasn't
being, wasn't framing his, hisideas in a way that was going to
be for court, right.
So he's maybe inarticulate,he's maybe not precise, he's
maybe and we see this every time, and so I'll give you the idea

(01:14:06):
what's happening in a, in a casewe're on, where they do not
mute their camera, is the coverofficers start doing pre-contact
planning.
So you got a contact officer.
The cover officers are nowplanning hey, we've got a
shotgun, do we got this?
Let's get beanbag rounds, let'sget this, let's get that.
Call the supervisor, getmedical standby, blah, blah.
And the attorneys got it andsaid all of those conversations

(01:14:30):
were evidence of intent to kill.
They were bringing weapons,they were intentionally planning
, premeditated, to bring weaponsto the scene.
That cops are like are youkidding me?
No, we don't necessarily goingto use them, but we want to have
the options.
In fact, that's what we traincops to do.
Every conversation that has hadevery idea, every expression of
stress, is going to beinterrogated and cross-examined

(01:14:51):
by people who are not intendingthose conversations for
cross-examination.
And so it's challenging becausethe people, the right, yeah.
So what ends up happening isthey have a right to observe and
record, just like we dopoliticians, just like you do
any public servant, and yet onlythe cops are the ones required

(01:15:12):
to do that.
And it's by public servant, andyet only the cops are the ones
required to do that.
And it's also beyond humanperformance in the sense of I
have to maintain optimal arousalstates for persons of public
display at every second of myjob so that I can't have that
stressful response.
I can't be like you know.
One case was like holy shit,what the fuck was that was going
on there, right.

(01:15:33):
And you talk to you like whatdo we got going?
I don't know what the fuck wasthat was going on there, right.
And you talk to you like whatdo you?
What do we got going?
I don't know what the fuck thisguy's thinking.
And you're trying to get thatexpression of emotional arousal
out so you can go back andbehave professionally, because
you're doing it one-on-oneoutside of public, um, and so
you have to strip out thehumanity and make them robots so
they can't have any emotion,they can't.
They can't have any venting,they can't have any gallows

(01:15:54):
humor, they can't have thosehonest human conversations
anymore, because everything'sbeing recorded and they are on
camera and on audio all the time.
So once a police officer in apolice department recognizes
that and one of the things someof like verbal defense and
influence does a great job.
Their entire class is recordedand so they got cameras up audio
and even on the brakes, andthen they play it back because

(01:16:17):
people forget they're beingrecorded and you're hearing them
smoking and joking and laughingand you guys you have to
understand in this job you'realways being recorded and
everything you say will bescrewed, and by prosecutors and
opposing counsel who do not haveyour best interests at heart.
Now I'm not saying that aboutall the public.
I'm saying those opposingcounsel, those opposing experts,
the prosecutors.
They will strip every word yousay in an effort to make it no,

(01:16:43):
it's not redacted.
Because of your point is thatthey believe they have a right
to the entire context becauseuntil they know what it is, a
defense attorney or a prosecutorgets to determine whether it's
going to have relevance to theirtheory of the case and they
don't know if it has relevanceuntil they hear it and they can
manufacture the relevance andthey do frequently in cases

(01:17:04):
manufacture intent and motivebehind things that cops were
never even thinking about.
So I'm not saying I have theanswer.
I'm saying these are thetension points, these are the
conflicts we see once all ofthis information is exposed to
scrutiny.
So the agencies who learn this,what they do is their policy is
, whenever their recording is on, they say nothing.

(01:17:25):
They no longer now get to havethose communications, they don't
get to say what happenedpreviously, they don't get to
share information, they don'tget to vent.
So they have to hold all thatinside, all that tension,
especially during a criticalincident.
And some of them will have handsignals, some of them will just
point to the camera, some ofthem will say you know 10-12,
which in?
Because the people who will getaccess to those conversations

(01:17:55):
do not have your best interestat heart and are incentivized to
interpret everything you say inthe worst possible light.
And I want to be clear that'snot everybody who gets access to
it.
I'm saying, within thepopulation of people who do get
access to it, there's going tobe a lot of people who are going
to do their best to demonizethose conversations in a way
that can be criminal and civilliability, and we're seeing it

(01:18:16):
now in criminal cases where acop will listen to it and go no,
that's not what that means.
For example, a cop said hey,hey, chief, I'll go ahead and
break the window for the paper.
So what's that mean?
I'll do it for the paper.
You tell your supervisor, I'llbreak the window for the paper.
What does that mean?
Right, I mean so I'll write thereport.

(01:18:39):
We don't have our chief reports, right?
So hey, let me, I'll do thearrest for the paper.
Well, they took it like I'm this.
I'm this vicious guy who justwants to abuse people.
Let me I.
So I took it from thesupervisor because they don't
understand the culture tounderstand the terminology.
And once it got put out there,it was interpreted in a way that
was the least beneficial or theleast generous to the officer.

(01:19:00):
So that's what officers arethinking about when they hit
mute.
Is I need to express something?
That probably is, is going tobe inartful, it's going to be
unprofessional, in a sense thatit's.
It's not intended for publicrelease.
And yet through that entireeight hour shift, everything is
recorded.
So my response to that has beengreat.

(01:19:21):
We, if that's the standard,then every politician for an
eight hour shift must haveeverything they say related to
that job and unrelated to thatjob, as long as they're on duty
recorded, and I want I want tosee how many people are going to
do that, because it is.
It is a horrible way to have togo through your workday to not
be able to have an honest,authentic, personal conversation

(01:19:43):
.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
Yeah I, I've actually .
So those are.
I've actually, um, been puttinga couple elected officials to
the fire, not putting theirnames or anything out there, but
they've been pulled over bypolice and they instantly try
using their position, um, as aninfluence over how that traffic
stop should go.
And I'm like, listen, you're anelected official, as you

(01:20:07):
pointed out in the body camvideo.
You should be the higherstandard, you should be the
person that everybody looks to,and the way that you're acting
right now you're trying to useyour position to get you out of
something.
That's not how that goes.
That's not how it should be.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
Well, there's an easy way to look at it too, and
again, all I'm doing isidentifying the tension.
There's not a good, easy answer, because there's a desire to
know and transparency.
And then there's a desire tolive authentically and to live
in a way that all of us wouldlike to live, which is not our
constant guard.
But we all have like threepersonas right First persona,

(01:20:48):
second persona, third persona.
Third persona is how we presentourselves to the public.
Right Second persona is how youpresent.
It's basically your bestversion of yourself.
It's that avatar ideally.
Your second persona is how youpresent to your friends and
family.
You may never cuss in yourthird persona.
I hope people don't ever hearme cuss in my third persona,
except maybe if I'm telling astory.
I try not to.
And so my third persona,especially if you there it is.

(01:21:12):
I mean, look, if you holdyourself out as a Christian man
and you hold yourself out as arepresentation of something
bigger than yourself in yourthird, you don't want to be the
weak leak in that representation.
That's your third persona.
You kind of keep it tight.
Second personas with yourfriends and family.
If they know a little bit moreabout you, they let you let it
slip a little more.
That's who you work with everyday.
That second persona crew is thecops you work with every day.

(01:21:35):
It's the conversations you havethat are a little less third
person, a little lessprofessional.
And the first persona is thethings you do when you're by
yourself in the dark recesses ofyour of your mind, and that's
what you even hide from yourfriends and family.
So I think there's a little bitof that.
I didn't really analyze it likethat before, but I think that's
part of the tension is having acamera on you at all times of
recording everything during yourduty day demands that you stay

(01:22:00):
in third persona.
That requires a high cognitiveload.
It is not natural, it isstressful, it is hard and if any
of you in the audience, ifyou're a public speaker and you
are a teacher or whatever, youknow what it feels like to be on
all day.
You got to be on all day on dayand you're exhausted at the end
of the day because you couldn'trelax and just be yourself.

(01:22:20):
Um, that's what we're askingcops to do.

Speaker 4 (01:22:22):
I think with some of the yeah, yep for sure,
remembering to turn on when yougo to the bathroom.
I mean turn off, yeah, yeahexactly, yeah, um banning.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
I don't know if you accidentally meant to take your
video off or not.
Um, I put you back up there nomuting banning.
Yeah, no muting bitch.
Okay.
So, um, guys, the the primarypoint of the show was to watch
body cams and kind of reviewthem and give you a perspective
from an officer's point of viewas the call's developing, versus

(01:22:55):
watching the video and then,monday morning, quarterbacking
it.
We don't do that here.
We we watch it and we give youinsight as how a cop would
handle the call as it'sdeveloped.
Yep, I can hear you,unfortunately.
Are you able to hear me now?
Yeah, yeah, you sound fine,buddy, are you good?

(01:23:15):
He's obviously delayed becausehe's not answering right away.
So, um, that's fine, all right,we're going to get into the
first video of the night andlet's see what happens.
Uh, here we go.

(01:23:37):
Share.
Now I have seen this one.
We are going to biggie.
I've actually made a video likea reaction video to this, so I
will stay out of this.
Jared and Vaughn and Vaughn,obviously I know, because of the
nature of what you do, you mayor may not be able to even
comment on this, but I want youguys to watch this and we'll

(01:23:57):
kind of break it down as it goes.
Well, now I'm nervous.
I want you guys to watch thisand we'll kind of break it down
as it goes.
Well no, I'm nervous.
Shout out to policeactivitycom.
That's where we got all thesevideos tonight is Police
Activity's YouTube channel.
Thank you, police Activity.
Make sure you guys likesubscribe and follow them,

(01:24:19):
because we basically get all theraw body cam footage from them
exclusively and we've nevertalked to them.
So let's keep going hey, y'all,this, y'all, huh, this plate
don't match man, hold on, holdon.
Where you going?
Hold on, hold on.
Okay.
So I'm going to lead off withPolice 101.

(01:24:46):
Never show all your cards.
So when you tell this guy hey,is this your car?
Are you driving this?
The plates don't match, itdoesn't come back.
You just kind of gave all yourcards up and guess what's going
to happen.
If somebody is guilty ofsomething, they're going to

(01:25:07):
rabbit and you just kind offucked what you got going on
because can you put this personin this car?
And if the answer is no, you'refucked, you got Jack, shit.
So other than that, uh, jared,you run this car.
Let's just say, because wedon't know the backstory, you

(01:25:27):
just happen to be at the gasstation.
You're like I'm going to fillup some gas and you're like you
know what?
I'm going to be a nosy Nancyhere and I'm going to run this
plate while I'm about to get gas.
So what do you got from here?

Speaker 4 (01:25:44):
I mean, I assume he's in a full uniform, that he's
identifiable as a cop.
While you're approaching thisguy, um, but at the same time it
looks like he's alone.
If I have a car with afraudulent plate, I want my
friends there, um, that's forstarters, just for me.
You know, maybe he's from a,you know, a rural area and he
doesn't have friends, so he's byhimself.
But the whole the wholeapproaching and everything like

(01:26:05):
that off the get-go.
I didn't, I didn't like, justbecause it made me nervous.
Like you said, all of his carsare right out there.
You got nothing in your deckleft right, yeah, I don't, I
don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
So this guy starts to run Vaughn do you yeah, same
thing.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
Everything is all tactics, like these tactical
decisions.
It's discretionary, meaningevery time you make a decision,
you're doing risk, benefits andtrade-offs.
So you've already identifiedI'm by myself, this guy a
fraudulent tag or a tag thatdoesn't match a vehicle.
It's reasonable to infer itmight be.
One of the things cops aretrained to consider is that it
might be a stolen vehicle.

(01:26:46):
Right, and so that thatelevates the thing, it's not
just a traffic violation.
So ideally, if it's a stolenvehicle, you're going to.
If you suspect it's a stolenvehicle, you want to respond
like it is, which means you'renot doing it by yourself.
However, the trade-off is ifyou don't initiate it and you

(01:27:08):
allow him to get into it anddrive off simply because you're
by yourself, you're like I'mhere by myself.
Now you got a mobile vehiclethat's possibly stolen.
Now you're.
Now you're in a pursuit, so thetrade-off, the benefit, is you.
You stop him and he's like, hey, what's going on?
Sorry, it's a violation.
Keep in mind that this is just atraffic.
We're like 100 times a day westop people one-on-one for

(01:27:29):
traffic violations.
Right, illegal tag display orothers In the back of your head.
You're like, ah, this illegaltag display could be because
it's stolen.
So there's the tradeoff he's byhimself.
That's not good, but if he letshim get in the car now he's got
a high.
Now he has put for pursuit of astolen vehicle, which is worse.
So what do you do now?

(01:27:53):
I do like you I I won't getinto police tactics necessarily
like what I would do to avoidshowing all my cards, but there
are things you can do to avoidshowing all your cards, right,
um, and I do like you say.
We used to say this is like astarting pistol and you're like,
from some distance go, hey, Ithink your car's stolen.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
Right, yeah, it's the equivalent of rolling up hot
with your lights and sirens onto a corner where you know that
they actively deal dope and justgoing after the first person
that runs.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
Yeah, wait till they're 30 feet away from me and
said, hey, I think you gotwarrants.

Speaker 4 (01:28:28):
I hate to time this yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
So right now I don't even know, legally speaking, do
we have enough to go chasingafter him?

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
I'll answer that as how I would break it down.
Anyway, here's what I want toknow is somebody else in the
other vehicle?
So we only have one emptyvehicle out there.
We have two people leaving thestore with their packages.
The other car is pumping gas orwhatever.
We have one empty vehicle, isit?
The only standard we're lookingfor is reasonable suspicion.
Is a spec that this is thedriver of that vehicle?

(01:29:01):
If it is, he has enough for aterry stop.
He can do a lawful detentionlong enough to confirm or
alleviate his suspicion.
So I would want to know that,because I do think if you see
those two people coming out tothe empty vehicle, um, and you
see the other car, has somebodyattached to it already, you at
least have reasonable suspicionto stop them.
Once they bolt depending onwhere you're at headlong flight

(01:29:24):
away from the police constitutesadditional reasonable suspicion
.
Once you give them a lawfulorder to stop and they refuse,
now it's probable cause tobelieve they've disobeyed a
lawful order.
Now it's an arrestable offense.
So you it can stack like that,keeping in mind there's some
jurisdictions that you can'tgive lawful orders like that,
which always baffled me, butthere are some jurisdictions

(01:29:45):
that you absolutely.
If somebody disobeys a lawfulorder, it's not an arrestable
offense, believe it or not.
That's not where I worked If Itold you to stop and I had a
legal basis to stop you and youtook off running.
That's an arrest.
That becomes an arrestableoffense that becomes an
arrestable offense.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
Well, let's just see.
I know how this is going toplay out, so we're just going to
keep going from here.

Speaker 5 (01:30:12):
Hold on, I got one on my foot.
I'm going to need to keepparking.
Yo, stop running.
I'm going to fucking tase you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Oh shit, I did not mean to do that.
He says oh, oh shit, I did notmean to do that.
He fired his gun, just so we'reclear.
Said he's gonna tase him, butsays oh, oh shit, I did not mean
to do that.
Then fires his gun, so we'llkeep going.

Speaker 5 (01:30:46):
Now he's fired I thought you said gun bro, gun
yeah he says did you shoot at me?

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
and then the officer says I thought you said gun, bro
, help me make that make sense.
Sounds like he's trying tocover for himself.
When have you ever been chasingafter a bad guy and he goes gun
?
It's never happened in thehistory of policing.

(01:31:15):
It's never happened.
I'm speculating, but I'm goingto say that's never happened.
It's happened in training, forsure, it's happened in police.
Going to say that's neverhappened, so it's happened in
training, for sure, it'shappened in police training, but
that's never happened.
So let's keep going.
He said you shot at me.
His partner says no, I didn'tshoot at you, which, to his

(01:31:38):
partner's defense, he may nothave heard him shoot.
Which, to his partner's defense, he may not have heard him
shoot.
This is credible.
I shouldn't say it's credible.
This is plausible.
It is plausible that thepartner didn't know he fired his
gun.
He may have been in the pursuitand may have been focused in
and the only thing he saw wasthe taser, because that's what

(01:32:00):
happens at the end.
However, that's not whathappened.
He shot a gun at me.
No, I didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:32:09):
I heard a gun.
That wasn't me, bro.
He shot a gun.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
So now he's telling the bad guy no, I didn't shoot a
gun at you, that wasn't me.

Speaker 5 (01:32:16):
Gun.
How I heard a gun.
That's why you used this.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
It's coming out.
I heard the difference betweena gun and a taser.
So that's the end of it.
Here's what we don't know.
We don't know what the officerreported and what I.
I didn't argue it, but what Iwanted to give perspective on is
that the cop can lie to thatsuspect.
He doesn't have to tell him hefired his gun.
There's no legal precedentbehind that.

(01:32:43):
However, I think it's unethicaland immoral in what we've got
going on.
Because, one, you got to makesure that guy didn't get shot.
Two, you got to make suresomebody else didn't get shot.
You got to get notificationsout there.
You got to let people know asfast as fucking possible that
you fired your gun when youdidn't mean to fire your gun, so
we can make sure nobody elsegot hit.

(01:33:04):
So I'm gonna leave it at thatand I'm gonna go to jared.
Then I'm gonna go to von jared.
What do you got?

Speaker 4 (01:33:11):
yeah, I mean, it's one of those things, but one
like what does his belt looklike?
Where does he keep his taser?
Where does he keep his gun?
Yes, same like I know mostagencies the taser policy says
you have to cross draw, someaning you have either the
other side or up on your chestor something like that.
So that's one um and two, youknow, dude, you did it like,

(01:33:33):
yeah, you don't have to tell thesuspect, but you better be
telling somebody that you shotyour gun right now and I I will
also make.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
And people are like, how could you say he doesn't
have to tell him?
Listen, if you're trying tokeep the suspect calm and you
don't want to escalate things, Icould see an argument that you
were like no, no, dude, wedidn't shoot at you.
No, no, you want to keep themcalm, get them in jail.
Okay, cool, that that's theonly logical argument about that

(01:34:04):
.
I can kind of see.
I don't agree with it, but Ican kind of see.
So, um, von what do you gotbuddy?

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
well, the, the pulling the gun instead of the
taser.
There's a lot, there's lots ofexplanations.
That does not happen very often, it's pretty rare, but it does
happen.
When it does happen, it's bad,um, it has to do with
automaticity.
It has to do with your body'sfocusing externally, when you
should be focusing uh in, uhexternal broad instead of
internal, or uh, external narrow.

(01:34:35):
Um, because we don't thinkabout our draw stroke that much.
When you're chasing somebodydoing a threat assessment, your
focus of attention doesn't go toyour draw stroke, which is how,
in cases where that does happen, you can inadvertently draw
your gun, particularly if you'renot used to drawing your gun on
a sprint, because your hips aremoving and people don't really
think about this.
It changes the angle to thedraw, changes.
It's.

(01:34:55):
It is not a good deal.
Luckily, it doesn't happen veryoften.
But, uh, the other thing ispeople, they're thinking how, uh
, how is it that you don't knowthe weight, the colors, the way?
I think he had a black taser itwas cross-draw black taser but
um, they don't recognize theweight in the hand.
There's a big difference.
If you took that gun and thattaser back into the jury room
and you weighed them, you woulddefinitely see a difference.

(01:35:17):
You'd feel the weightdifference difference.
The problem is, when your body,when your mind, believes that
you're doing the right thing, itstops considering it.
It's like when you throw apunch, you know how to do it.
You don't think about how youthrow the punch.
When your body believes thatyou're drawing the right weapon,
you are not thinking about it,and so that's how you get those.
It's not taser weapon confusion, it's just a performance error.

(01:35:45):
Right, it's a, it's a sliperror and so, or yeah, well,
it's a performance error.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
So that that happens and it's, it's brutal when it
happens.
Yeah, um, yep, uh, mama g, fast, I'm sorry.
Uh, mama g said, which is whycops should always be recorded.
If it wasn't recorded, thisElio could have lied more than
he did, and I don't necessarilydisagree with that.
I am actually very theconscience of myself is kind of

(01:36:13):
shocked that that was thereaction this officer had.
That to me is actually veryshocking, because me I'd have
been like overly apologetic.
Oh my god, I was trying to taseyou, bro and I pulled my gun in
fire.
Are you hit?
Is there?
Are you sure you're not?
Let's take your coat off.

(01:36:34):
Let's make sure you're not hit.

Speaker 4 (01:36:35):
Like that would have been my initial reaction and
that, yeah, I mean it didn'tshow it in the video.
Did that happen?
Did he even check to make surethat his suspect was okay?

Speaker 1 (01:36:44):
it ends, I don't know .
Um, that's the only video I'vebeen able to find.
Actually, when we found thisvideo, it was very fresh.
It's still pretty fresh.
Um, I imagine von will actuallyprobably be on this case down
the road.

Speaker 3 (01:36:57):
Uh I don't know, but I tell you this though think
about this guy.
I suspect a lot of times whenthese happen, these are really
good cops.
These are not untrained cops.
In fact, the more training youhave, the higher the chances
this could happen.
It's really backwards.
And if you look at this guy,when he was running doing the
foot chase, he was narrating tohimself oh, I didn't mean to do

(01:37:17):
that, you know, you're hearing,hearing his he's narrating his
conscience, but what I saw atthe end I don't see a guy who
was like intentionally I thinkthe dude went into like when he
started to realize the, theenormity of what he had done.
He's a his arousal state wasprobably much higher at that
point and he doesn't know whathe's doing.

(01:37:37):
At this point he's he's lying,but he's also not rationally
planning and cultivating a lie.
It's just like the first thingthat comes out and shoot you,
you know, sort of thing, andit's like ah, yeah, you did
Right, there's there's nodenying that, right, but it's uh
.
So I didn't see this as a guywho was like rationally planning

(01:38:00):
, conspiring to tell a lie thathe thought was going to hold
over.
Time is my point.
This was a guy that was ultrastressed out, realized he just
had the biggest ND of his lifeand was trying to maintain his
bearing in front of everybodyand his command president says
cops, don't let that guard downin that moment.
But it was.
It's brutal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:38:20):
I hope he didn't report it.
I hope he didn't report.

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
I know and and that's what I'm this is where, guys
this is the benefit of the showthat you're not going to get
from a lot of other things thatare out there is you're going,
you're getting policeperspective on what is happening
, what we see in front of us andthen the transition period
between what you see in the bodycam versus what actually goes
on to paper and goes to court.
Again, you guys know, and I'vetold you all, don't trust cops,

(01:38:50):
don't talk to us.
I tell you guys that on theshow and I'm a cop If you can
plead the fifth, plead thefucking fifth.
Don't talk to us.
Wait for your lawyer to giveyou freaking advice.
Like that is what you should bedoing, and this is one of those
things you see is like thisofficer is actively lying.

(01:39:15):
Now we don't know the intentionbehind it.
So let's not jump toconclusions.
We don't know what he reportson the official record.
So here's the benefit of ourshow.
Now I'm very curious how doeshe report?
I would love to get a follow-upon this.
I don't even know where thisoccurred, so um you always, you

(01:39:35):
always got to work backwards.

Speaker 3 (01:39:37):
When you see these things at least I do because
there are sociopaths in badges,for sure, psychopaths, right,
that's fine.
But when you got these things atleast I do because there are
sociopaths in badges, for sure,psychopaths, right, that's fine.
But when you got a guy that youcan hear narrating like you
could tell he's not a psychopathor a sociopath, he realizes
instantly what he did was was a,was a bad, bad bad deal all the
way.
But he still doesn't know ifthe guy's armed he still doesn't

(01:39:58):
, is armed, he still doesn'teither, but nevertheless, uh,
this is a guy you have toimagine is lying intentionally
on body camera in front of hispartner who he has to somehow
imagine is going to back him upin that lie that he shot a gun
at somebody right in front ofthe suspect in public.
So I think, if it's true thathe knows, he can't get away with

(01:40:19):
it.
What are the other explanations, human performance,
considerations that wouldexplain why he would say that in
that moment?
And one of them is a reallyhigh cognitive load, massive,
you know, blood's left hisfrontal cortex and he's just
like on autopilot at that pointand really isn't thinking at all
.
I'll give him that grace, butbut he will have had plenty of
time before that moment andputting it on paper.

(01:40:46):
No-transcript.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
I'm going to give a shout out here to Harrison Brock
.
He just gifted 20 membershipsto our YouTube channel, so I'm
going to go down Everybody thatpopped up, first and foremost
Harrison.
Thank you, brother, Veryappreciated.
All of that money goes toVaughn.
He charges us to be on the show.
We're actually like about$40,000 in debt that we owe

(01:41:10):
Vaughn just for showing uptonight.

Speaker 4 (01:41:12):
Wait, you're getting paid for this Vaughn.

Speaker 1 (01:41:16):
I'm just joking, guys .
Oh, this is one of the the thevery rare events that Vaughn
just gets to chill back, relax,be himself and have fun behind
the cop thing that he gets to dofor his career.
So it's very fun when we do getto have him on here.
So I'm just giving shit.
But all the people that got anaccount tonight got a membership

(01:41:40):
.
Scott Young, theron, bell and Idon't even know what this is
but Senpai, death, senpai,whatever Scary, you got an
account.
Mickey got one.
Mama G oh, mama G actuallyshe's on all the time so she
deserves one.
So, very cool.
Some people may call her Gina.

(01:42:01):
I'm going to go with Gina Marie.
Good job, gina.
Eye of the Night, another dudethat often participates.
Banning's losing his shit overthere.
Ryan Holsinger he's anotherperson that comments and gives
us enough shit.
Shotgun and tattoos.
Very, very cool.

(01:42:22):
Sigma, lord man, a lot ofpeople that deserve accounts
actually got stuff tonight.
T Ward, my coworker.
Guys, you got him one.
He's not even on tonight, Idon't think.
Oinker911.
I love the name.
I like anybody that teases cops.
It's fun.
Elizabeth Miller, pj, doobieand Edward, I like it.

(01:42:47):
So everybody got an accounttonight.
Very awesome.
Please bring all your thanks toHarrison Brock, because that is
who just got your accountstonight.
Very cool, brother, appreciateyou.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
Without you guys, we have a competition for the best
cocktail.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (01:43:07):
We should have a competition for the best
cocktail.

Speaker 1 (01:43:09):
Well fuck, we'd be roasted all night.
These guys know how to light usup.
Well, fuck, we'd be roasted allnight.
These guys know how to light usup.
Um, let me go to the commentshere.
How was so many others thatregularly show up get one, but
not me?
Come on marine's blood also isa person that regularly shows up

(01:43:30):
and comments that didn't getone tonight.
Man, I would just.
If I were you Marines Blood, Iwould say that God doesn't like
you.
Maybe, had you joined the AirForce, you would have been a
chosen one, but you decided tobe a Marine.
It is what it is.
Vaughn's headphones crapped outon him, so it is what it is.

(01:43:52):
Uh, Vaughn's headphones crappedout on him, so uh is what it is
.
Um, we will keep going with theshow.
Let's go to the next video,guys, and see what we got.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Um share screen.
He bought those headphones atthe same place.
I bought my internet,apparently.

Speaker 1 (01:44:08):
I was telling Vaughn about your uh skull candy issues
you had.
Oh, do they still make skullcandy issues?
You had.

Speaker 4 (01:44:13):
Oh, do they still make skull?

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
candy.
Yeah, yep, it's still a thing,brother.
All right, we are going to goto this video here again.
The cool thing about this isnone of us have seen these that
I know of.
If somebody has seen this video, they just won't comment.
I have not seen this andeverything is from Police
Activity YouTube channel.
I don't want to know anythingabout this at all.

(01:44:40):
3280, 72 Stop, peachtree Roadand Sardis Way on a white Ford
Transit van Sam David Henry,0651.
Looks like we got a trafficstop.
Huh, looks like we got atraffic stop.
Okay, so things that I'mnoticing as we're parked off of
the roadway.
This is going to make it asafer approach for us.

(01:45:04):
Looks like a very downtown,city, urban environment, and it
looked like we had two officers.
Looked like we had the driverand a passenger, so we're going
to have a two-officer approachon this.
This is about as safe of atraffic stop as you're going to
get.
So anybody got anything else toadd?

Speaker 4 (01:45:23):
Nope, I'm glad he got it on the road.
It saves traffic.
That was nice, yep, that makesthings easier.

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
Cool, All right, we're going to keep going.
That makes things easier.
Cool, All right, we're going tokeep going.
Stay behind the B pillar here.
What's going on, boss?
So we can see both hands?
This is a major concern for usas we approach.
Once I can see hands, oh my God, this traffic stop becomes the
easiest stop it's ever become.

(01:45:48):
So that's what we like to see.
Atlanta Police Department.

Speaker 3 (01:45:51):
Reason for the stop you can't be on that cell phone
when you drive.
You become so.

Speaker 1 (01:45:59):
that's what we like to see.
Okay Now, not knowing anythingabout this call, not seeing this
video, I did not read theheadline, I didn't read whatever
that shit was that was at thebottom.
He is acting very, very nervous.
I can see that already.
Did you guys see his handsshaking?

(01:46:20):
Now I'm not there.
What we see on body cam if Ican see that on body cam, me in
person is definitely going tonotice some very nervous
symptoms.
Jared, what do you?

Speaker 4 (01:46:31):
got.
I mean yeah, when I see that Icall it out, I'm like hey, man,
you okay, you seem nervous, yeah, break the tension.

Speaker 1 (01:46:39):
Yep Vaughn, what do you got?

Speaker 3 (01:46:44):
Yeah, sorry I missed a little bit of it.
Yeah, I don't like him on hisphone, but I, when we do
anomalies and baselines the factthat he might've been on his
GPS earlier and he still had hisphone.
When he get up there, I noticedthat if he has his ID on his
driver's license on his phone,great, it looks like that's what
he's pulling up now.
I actually have my ID on myphone too, so I kind of believe

(01:47:08):
that.
So I'll steal a little bit moreof the nervousness.
You don't know if it's nervousfrom just being pulled over, um,
or if there's more to it.
You know you talk about I don'tknow how often or what part of
city he's in, uh, so I don'tknow how to.
I don't know the baseline forthat level of nervousness in
that.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
Um shout out to mr billfold he, he dropped two
bucks just to say that he sitswith alan and, uh, he's for
skull candy.
So I like it.
Thank you, mr Billfold.
All right, let's keep goingwith this.
I don't want to give.

(01:47:43):
Here's the part of the problemthat I get stuck in, guys is
I've got in my brain right nowwhat I think is going on.
But it's not going to bebelievable if what I say is
going on.
But it's not going to bebelievable if what I say is 100%
on, because I haven't read theheadlines or whatever.
So I'm just going to keep it tomyself for right now I don't
want to.
But this guy is guilty ofsomething.

(01:48:04):
I'm just saying it right now.
He's guilty of something thatI'm suspecting, but I want to

(01:48:25):
see where this goes.
He's very overly dramatic onhis movements.
This is a this is behavioralthings that I'm noticing.
He's turning his head, he's,he's, he's.
I can't explain.
I can't explain it.
I don't know how to articulatethis is common behavior of

(01:48:49):
somebody that is trying toeither hide something or has
something going on.
But I can feel the energycoming off of this guy From here
.
I'm pulling him out of the car.
There's too many people that sitdown and look at their phone.
That is not normal.

(01:49:10):
A person that gets pulled overa normal nine out of 10 stops.
They're going to be like oh youknow, sorry officer, what was I
doing?
You know they're going to belooking for their license if
they're asked that, but they'renot going to be head down in
their phone and then very jerkywith I don't know how to explain
it.
Anyway, um, oh, oh, oh, holycow.

(01:49:31):
Uh, I want to give someshout-outs before we keep going.
Shotguns and Tattoos justgifted five more membership.
Oh, please, let Marine Bloodshave gotten one of these, just
so you guys know they're random.
There's no control.
The person that gifts thesememberships, they have no
control over it.

Speaker 4 (01:49:48):
Oh, that's good to know.
I thought they were directed.

Speaker 1 (01:49:51):
No, no, it's just random, random, it goes to
anybody.
That's a part of thesubscription.
So, sir benjamin got one.
Sir benjamin, king pin king 554got one.
Uh, dead leg got one.
Hell yeah, dead leg is actuallya part of what we're doing.
So, dead leg got one.

(01:50:11):
Uh, keith roberts got one, andthen uh, joe ermold got one.
So, oh man, oh man, I'm notgonna lie.
I think uh, marine blood'sgonna gonna rage here in a
second.
Mr billfold said not lie, hisbody language is sus as fuck.

(01:50:32):
That's 30 years of pokertalking.
Yeah, I'm with you, brother.

Speaker 4 (01:50:37):
My resolution isn't high enough.
Can you see his pupils in yours?

Speaker 1 (01:50:41):
No, no, I can't.
Let's keep going here, allright?
No.

Speaker 3 (01:50:48):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:50:52):
One person needs to talk Now.

Speaker 3 (01:50:54):
Look, listen, Atlanta is just a ticket.
Now, if you're lying to me,then we're going to have to go
home.
I got this.
All right, all right, boss,honestly go a long way.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
Your boy's like here you go.
I got me some buds here so heobviously smelled it.
So that's cool, all right.
Now he's not wrong.
Honestly does go a long way.
Um, oh shit, we got damneverybody's going nuts tonight.
I appreciate harrison decidedto go, so harrison gave 25

(01:51:25):
memberships tonight marine blood, I'm rooting for you.

Speaker 4 (01:51:28):
I mean, I am rooting for marine blood.

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
Let's see t T-Battle got one.
Perry Lemley, who is a constantcontributor, yes, he deserved
one, absolutely.
I'm surprised this guy didn'tget one.
Steve Wallace, some of thethings you bring up stream light
signs of high-functioningautism and ADHD.
True, yeah for sure.

(01:51:50):
That's actually a good point.
Meanwhile got a membershipDeadpool.
Deadpool actually commentsevery so often, and then, oh, I
thought that was Marine Blood.
It said Martin Neff Got it.
No offense, martin Neff, youdeserve it too.
Buddy, thank you.
Without y'all we would not beable to do what we do.

(01:52:12):
Very cool.
Thank you, harrison.
And marine blood get fucked.
Uh, so, uh, poor guy, I know.
Oh shit, I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:52:27):
let's see, okay now for those out there, if you're
rolling around.
I mean, this is a little youknow what I'm saying a little
too grand man.

Speaker 3 (01:52:32):
This ain't nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:52:33):
Okay now for those out there if you're rolling
around with dope, know that thisis what's going to happen next.
When you own up to that in theway that this guy did, we're
going to search that car.
That's the next step.
I'm pulling you out and we'regoing to search that car.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
Vaughn, you got anything else on that?
Nope, you're right, it's a.
I mean you look at like, uh,chase hughes is uh how to
anticipate or how to deter?
Uh, how do you uh observe anddetect deception?
One of the things is you admitto the small things and you hope
that they won't ask about thebig things.
Someone hands something over.

Speaker 1 (01:53:13):
That's the small thing you're like start right,
all right, all right, let's seewhat.
Let's see what happens fromhere.

Speaker 3 (01:53:20):
All right we're gonna get you out the car.
We're gonna search thewrestling car, all right, all
right, step out for me step outfor me, just turn around for me,
okay.

Speaker 1 (01:53:35):
Okay, officers, here's a tip when you ask them
to step out of the car, figureout another reason to get them
out of the car.
It doesn't Free up your hands.
Yeah, free up your hands.
Hey, boss, I appreciate youbeing honest.
Show me the weed.
I just want to get you out ofthe car While we, while we run
your information.

(01:53:56):
Uh, can you come back to thecar with me?
That's it.
Like I'm going to freestyle, dowhatever I got to do, but I'm
not going to tell you.
Hey, I need you to get out ofthe car now.
Thanks for your honesty.
Now we're going to search it,because I have just invited this
guy to resist and fight in anyother way that he sees fit,

(01:54:17):
because he knows if there's morein that car, he's in Foxville.
So Mr Belfort said he ate thenapalm flavored Koreans.
Okay, brandar just got five morememberships.
Oh, my God, I hope, I hope, Ihope he doesn't get one.

(01:54:39):
Okay, let's go down the list.
Let's see who we got.
Here we go.
Here's the first one.
Cheyenne Schrock got the firstmembership.
Brian Dane got the next RB8819.
Remods and Marine Bloods.

(01:55:05):
We appreciate your supportthough, brother.
Thank you for continuouslyshowing up and helping out the
show.
Free McKees Love you guys.
And if there isn't anythingelse, the driver just lost all
trust.
Yeah, just because you handedover your weed doesn't earn your

(01:55:27):
trust, guys.
That's not how that works.
My advice to y'all if you'vegot weed in the car, just keep
your mouth shut.
Answer the questions they ask.
If you don't want to answer,say I'm not going to answer that
question.
I'm looking out for y'all.

(01:55:48):
Keep going, wait a minute.
Okay, if he's going to resist,this is going to be the time
right here.

Speaker 5 (01:55:57):
This old marijuana.
What's up Publica?

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
is marijuana.

Speaker 2 (01:56:06):
Boss, stop moving.
Stop moving, Boss, boss stop.

Speaker 1 (01:56:08):
Stop.
Okay, from here I am pinningyou against the vehicle.
If somebody's going to resist,it's usually when the metal hits
the wrist.
That is a common Vaughn.
You've been a part of a lot ofuse of force cases, I bet.

Speaker 3 (01:56:30):
When do they usually start resisting?
Yeah, you're right, but youwant to know why.
They do it at that moment,you're right, it's at that point
of contact because up untilthat time you think about it
psychologically, they stillbelieve they have a chance to
avoid this.
They can talk their way out ofit.
There's still a window ofopportunity.
They're not going to getarrested.
Something could happen, even ifthey don't know what that is.
They're waiting for the miracle.

(01:56:51):
Something could happen, even ifthey don't know what that is.
They're waiting for the miracleonce that first touch cup is
coming.
Now they know that window slamsshut and that that's when they
react.
So it you think it hassomething to do with the
physical touch, but it's not.
It's.
It's, it's what it symbolizesthat that window has slammed
shut.
They're done now.
They got to fight their way outof it and and these are people
that are completely cooperativebecause they're trying to run

(01:57:13):
games, right, right, so they'retrying to be like oh yes, sir,
absolutely sir, and or, you know, I got a medical emergency, I
can't breathe.
You know, you start to hear allthe things for compassion.
I appreciate what you guys aredoing out here and, yep, you
know, on and on and in thatfirst touch, they realize none
of that game is going to workanymore.
They are going jail,particularly if they know they

(01:57:33):
have more in the car.
So the fight's on.
So, yeah, that's absolutely oneof the foundational rules of
policing, which is why and Ithink, jared you can clear your
hands, put them in a position ofdisadvantage.
If they're worth arresting,they're worth spreading their
feet apart, getting their handsaway from the body, doing
something to put them in aposition of disadvantage, which

(01:57:55):
also gives you a lot of threatindications right Risk
assessment, threat indicators,pre-attack indicators Because if
they're not willing to putthemselves into a position of
disadvantage, how much lesswilling are they going to be for
you to just walk up and punchthem?

Speaker 4 (01:58:09):
Plus he's a big boy.
Like fighting that.
I don't want to fight that guy,you know, yeah, he's always me
quite a bit yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:16):
Well, you're an underwear model that makes sense
now where's his backup?

Speaker 3 (01:58:22):
searching a car like that's.
The other thing is the guy gotfalse, into a false sense of
complacency.
But if you have overwhelmingodds, if you got two against one
at least, but then you don'ttake advantage of it, right, and
it was because the guy was, hewas presuming compliance.
That's what we call it.
Like you, we train us not topresume compliance and this is
something that's important forthe community to know.

(01:58:43):
There are.
There is tactical deception,right?
So we add that to our list ofthings that we call what cops
know reasonable emphasis.
If, if you hear somebody sayingI can't breathe, or out of my
arm, or wait, wait, wait, my armdoesn't move that way, that may
very well be true and you haveto consider that that might be
true.
But from a cop's perspective,you hear that so frequently as

(01:59:04):
tactical deception.
Just to buy time, get a littlebit of positions of advantage,
get a tactical advantage so theycan resist that.
You have to note it.
But then you have to mitigateit.
It does not necessarily meanyou have to be like, okay, I'm
sorry, back up, cause I've gotsome great videos where officers
or the guys like, ow, ow, Ican't move my arm that way.
Just wait, wait, wait.
And you know most people whodon't understand police.

(01:59:26):
I'm going to be like why isthat officer?
He told him his arm hurts,right?
He told him he can't breathe.
Why is he still doing that?
And then the guy, as soon asthe officer let go and said fine
, then put your hand.
This way, the guy pulls the gunand kills the officer, shoots
the officer in the head.
So this is what cops know.

(01:59:47):
And so when I'm watching thisguy being calm, it looked like
the officer got kind of lulledinto that false sense of
security and decided to do aone-on-one arrest with a severe
weight.
I don't know what the coplooked like, so maybe this guy
was a little bit of a cop.
Yeah, possible.

Speaker 1 (01:59:56):
But you're right, that is a common problem.
When we ride two-man versusriding single-man in a patrol
vehicle, we get a false sense ofsecurity and we take more risk.
That is a proven, researched,scholarly thing that you can
look into, that police officerstypically take more risk riding

(02:00:19):
two-man versus being in a car bythemselves.
So, taylormade, actually makethe point.
Just remember that the taser isyellow, hopefully, and the gun
is black.
Some officers have gottenconfused about what is what and
the gun is black.
Some officers have gottenconfused about what is what.
We just watched a video wherethe guy chased after and he
fired a black taser, and thisjust happened a few days ago.

(02:00:40):
So not every taser is yellow.
Just saying, but let's keepgoing.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
I'm moving.
That's my last time telling youto stop Stop.

Speaker 1 (02:00:53):
I'm telling you right now, the moment, I'm going to
give you one.
This is.
Somebody asked what would Sargedo?
This is Sarge.
I'm going to get your handsbehind your back and I can tell
if you're too thick for me toget one set of cuffs on you
versus two.
I've done it enough.
Some of you fatties out thereneed two sets of cuffs and you

(02:01:15):
don't have the shoulder mobility.
I understand that I'm going tobe able to feel that pretty damn
quick, like Banning Banning'sprobably going to be a two-cuff
guy, so he three, as he justsaid.
So, but I'm going to be able totell pretty quick when I start
putting your hands together, ifI think I'm going to be able to

(02:01:37):
get one set of cuffs on you andyou start to pull that wrist,
you're going to the ground, I'mnot fucking around.
So some of us have wondered andhave asked on this show, like
why is he using force?
The guy didn't do anything.
Here's why, if I take this guyto the ground now, I have

(02:01:57):
prevented a larger use of forcelater on.
I've handled business up front.
It's the way I like to think ofit and I got the cuffs on by
only slamming him to the ground.
That's the hope Versus a higheruse of force where I have to
try to fight with him and then Igo to pepper spray, a baton or

(02:02:18):
taser.
That's a higher use of force.
So that's why I use force now,to prevent higher use of force
later.
That's something to consider.

Speaker 4 (02:02:28):
Can you put Taylor Maid's comment up on the board,
this one, the Ask, tell, make.
Yeah, that is a huge one.

Speaker 1 (02:02:36):
Yeah, ask, tell, make .
Really simple.
It seems that the officers liketo go from three back to one
and it repeats yeah, that is theproblem with de-escalation,
verbal judo and the ask, tell,make principle.
Each call kind of dictates howthat's going to go and each

(02:02:59):
officer has their own view onthat.
Sometimes I have asked, asked,asked, asked, asked, asked,
asked and then got my way andit's worked because that's how I
felt.
On that call Versus.
Sometimes I have asked, tell,make and it worked.
On that call Vaughn, what doyou?

Speaker 3 (02:03:21):
got yeah.
So ask, tell, make isdefinitely an old school.
I want to ask if Taylor was inthe military, because we get
that from our military police,we get that from our military
police.
What cops are trained at now isask, tell, why give options?
Confirm resistance.
And so you use ethical,rational, personal, practical

(02:03:44):
persuasion.
But that generation ofvoluntary compliance, the ask,
tell, why give options?
Ethical, rational, personalpersuasions, that's when you
have sufficient containment andcontrol, when you have time,
when you have what we calldiscretionary time, when you
have sufficient containment,sufficient control, you have
those two things.
We call that discretionary time.
With discretionary time you canengage in verbal judo,

(02:04:08):
persuasion, de-escalation,whatever it happens to be, but
in this case he does not havecontainment or control and so it
is, but he has to be able toexplain that.
So ask, tell, make will get youin trouble in policing.
Now that's.
That's not the standard.
It is, it's ask, tell why, giveoptions which start with the
positive, end with negative andthen confirm resistance.

(02:04:30):
That's the persuasion cycle andthe power of that, just so
everyone knows, is there's onlyfour types of persuasion.
It's ethical, rational,personal, practical persuasions.
And when you use that policingcycle of ask, tell why, give
options, confirm resistance, youhave used every type of
persuasion known to man rightand you can testify that you did
that.
Now, how many cycles you dothat?

(02:04:51):
Because that's what this isabout.
In the mental health communitythey say you might have to
repeat, you might have to repeatmultiple times.
They don't say how often thatis and they don't talk about
imminent threats With police.
I teach a class called theBridge from De-escalation to Use
of Force, and we specificallyfocus on when do you shut up in
force compliance, when do youstop talking to force compliance

(02:05:11):
?
And the short version is whenyou, when you do not when you no
longer have sufficientcontainment or control.
And when I mean control, Idon't mean just physical control
, I mean the guy.
If the guy is posing an imminentthreat to a government interest
, if he's about to run, if he'sabout, if he's beating someone
up, if he's about to assault you, then you don't have control.
So it's not just physicalcontrol about to assault you,

(02:05:33):
then you don't have control.
So it's not just physicalcontrol.
If you don't have control, youdon't have discretionary time
and you have to force compliance.
So I'll throw that out there,because it is expected with
sufficient discretionary time.
You do repeat yourself.
You do repeat yourself.
What Eric's got is yeah, not inthe middle of a fight, like if
I'm already engaged.
We're not just going to keeprepeating ourselves over and

(02:05:53):
over yeah, up bannings.

Speaker 1 (02:05:55):
I just wrap him up, problem solved, threat gone,
cuffed, and then we can speakagain.
Yeah, it's easy if you're afucking country boy that's three
pounds and just can manhandleeverybody that we run across,
it's like.

Speaker 3 (02:06:07):
Yeah, uh, I'm like oh , like betty's, like I have a
question all right, let's keepgoing like he took him to the
ground.

Speaker 1 (02:06:22):
We're gonna tease you okay, so both officers are on
great verbal commands from here.
They're doing everything.
I would do one I know where togo now.

(02:06:42):
Oh my god, that is fuckinggenius.
You want to try to takesomebody out of the game
mentally.
Now, where are you gonna gothicken?
You aren't running anywhere.
Everybody knows that.
You have the freaking, you knowrunning capacity of a damn
hippopotamus.
You're not going anywhere.

(02:07:03):
That was brilliant.
I really like that.
He did that.
That was a mental defeat rightthere.
So I like nelson, I likenelson's answer.

Speaker 3 (02:07:12):
Though, Eric, he took himself out of the fight
because he got creative.
He took.
But again, tactics arediscretionary.
They're caught with riskbenefits trade-offs.
He knew what he was feeling, heknew what, where the guy was
looking, what maybe he wastrying to get to, maybe.
So he made a tactical decisionthat we might have agreed with
or disagreed with, and that'sokay.

(02:07:33):
Reasonable people can disagree.
But my first thought was youdon't have control yet.
You left your partner to fightthis big boy.
You presumed it was because hewanted to get in the car, but
you don't know whether he's gotthat gun on him and the reason
he's fighting so hard is becausehe's got that gun on him.
He knows he's about to getcaught with a gun.

Speaker 1 (02:07:54):
So I didn't like it from this perspective.
But I'm not in the fight either.
Right, and that goes into yeah,you're right, it just depends
on how we are.
You know your partner, you knowwhat their capabilities are.
These are things to consider.
Us sitting back here in Mondaymorning quarterbacking.
We don't have the right to sitback and say that, so that's
good.

Speaker 3 (02:08:13):
He's up too right.
We kind of know the.
We kind of know he didn't holdit down.

Speaker 1 (02:08:17):
Yep, so fair enough, and it looks like this guy is
still on the ground.
Jared, I just want to make surethat you're having a good time.
Our buddy, chris, mentioned you, so I want to make sure that
you're in the mood for hot dogstonight, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:08:33):
I saw his shout out.
It was very nice of him.

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
Yes, alright.
So for everybody out there, forme, what's on the table?
Taser, pepper spray, baton, allthose things are on the table
With two of us and just theclimax, climax, that's the wrong

(02:08:57):
word.
The climate of policing Easybanning you, dirty-minded son of
a bitch.
The climate of policing.
I'm going to stick to grapplingthe best that I can, as long as
I know this guy doesn't haveany sort of weapons on him.
And as I'm fighting him, that'swhat I'm feeling, for I'm going

(02:09:21):
to feel the waistband.
I'm going to check thehigh-risk areas as we're
fighting.
So, as I fight somebody, that'swhat I'm looking for, mr
Belfort.

Speaker 3 (02:09:31):
Just so you know, that is not a standard, uh,
generally accepted policepractice.
So if I'm ever testifying andsomeone's, like our cops,
trained to also pat people downduring the fight, I'm like no,
yeah, I know that's a high andI've tried to explain that to
people before, like I have beenlike grabbing somebody.

Speaker 1 (02:09:50):
They're standing.
I want to.
I want, want to set the stagefor y'all.
This guy was standing.
He's pulling away from me, he'strying to run from me.
I have my hands around his hips.
I am actively frisking him as Ifoot sweep him and take him
down to the ground, and Iexplain this in my use of force

(02:10:10):
report.
I'm like I felt his waistband.
I felt no risk of any weaponsbeing drawn, so I stuck with
using joint manipulations andda-da-da-da-da, I was able to
get this guy and effect thearrest.
And they asked me they're likewhat do you mean?
You were frisking him as youwere fighting him.

(02:10:32):
I'm like well, I could give ashit less what he does with his
hands.
He's not going to hurt me.
What I'm worried about is aknife or a gun, so I was making
sure he didn't have one Once Iknew he didn't have one in his
pockets or on his waistband.
Fuck him, I'm going to win.
So that's.

Speaker 3 (02:10:56):
Hey, eric, fuck him, I'm gonna win.
So, uh, that's, that's.
Hey eric, did I ever tell youthe story of the guy who got in
a fight with his girl, with hisdaughter's boyfriend, and he
beat the other little crap outof that boy, uh, who broke into
his house threatening him?
So he beat him up like a, likea man beats another man trying
to step up to him, and he wasalpha.
He beat him down and the, theteenage man, ran out of the
house and then the dad diedright there, fell to the ground

(02:11:18):
and died.
This was one of our cases,because he had no idea that the
guy had a little blade like thatand he thought he was in a fist
fight and instead he wasgetting stabbed repeatedly in
the chest.
So he won the fist fight anddied on the on the living room
floor.
Uh, so stop it.

Speaker 1 (02:11:35):
Well, sir, I will say this when I am going against
somebody.
Their hands are not free,they're not moving around.
Um, I understand the dynamicsof underhooks and overhooks and,
uh, utilizing those to myadvantage.
Um have a high, higher thannormal that I don't expect

(02:11:55):
regular cops to have level ofgrappling.
I've been grappling since 06.
Do not listen to how I police.
I recommend that grappling is apart of your life in policing.
But you cannot police like me,not that mine is better or worse
.
Do as I say, not as I do aslong as I can say as long as I

(02:12:18):
can use that quote in court.

Speaker 3 (02:12:19):
He said you cannot police like me.

Speaker 1 (02:12:23):
Do not do as I do.
Do as I say.
That's what I tell my troops.
They're like Sarge, you told usnot to go into a fight.
I'm like well, I knew what wasgoing on, I'm all right, we're
fine.
Shout out to Mr Billfold Thankyou very much.
Remember, for two months, levelBaker's Dozen, that's our

(02:12:44):
highest.
That's what we have.
Click to join.
Click the three dots Upperright corner.
Select gift settings.
Guys, he's trying to help youall out so you can get your free
memberships.
Mr Biffold also said Ozark,click join, then the channel
membership will come up In thatscreen.

(02:13:05):
There are three dots and thenan X in the corner.
So let's keep going with thevideo.
Let's see where we go stop, geton the ground.

Speaker 3 (02:13:21):
You got nowhere to go .

Speaker 1 (02:13:23):
Get on the ground okay, they're trying to use
words not working.
He turned towards him Ample,ample time to follow verbal
orders.
He did not.
He continued.
He went towards the officer oh,it's in Atlanta.
So he went towards the officer,went towards the officer with

(02:13:45):
the taser, went towards both ofthem and still refused to get on
the ground.

Speaker 4 (02:13:50):
Oh my God, he also plays partner downrange of that
taser.

Speaker 1 (02:13:53):
Ah, he's used to that .
He'll be like.
That's a discussion for afterthe call.
Okay, from here.
Oh, andy, even said he'sreaching.

Speaker 3 (02:14:09):
I would say that's a fair assessment, as my man's
pulling his pants down to reachinto his pants, that's good
comms, though right because oneone is saying, uh, stop, okay,
stop, and you got to tell himwhy you're still doing it.
He's reaching.
That was a recent case wherethey said, uh, okay, he has

(02:14:32):
nothing, has nothing, and theback office was like he's got a
knife in his hand, like this isactually good comms.
And do not assume that whatyou're seeing, the other person
is seeing.
And if you're a witness andthis is good for our community
members you're seeing it from avery different vantage point.
You're looking at verydifferent things.
Even the officers are seeing avery different event and are
experiencing the event.

(02:14:53):
They're not witnessing it,they're experiencing it For him
to not just see it and have thewherewithal to actually
communicate it is actually goodhe's reaching.

Speaker 5 (02:15:03):
Stop, roll over.
Roll the fuck over.

Speaker 1 (02:15:09):
Now we've got Stop no .

Speaker 5 (02:15:11):
I was going to say now we've got compliance.
Stop.
No, I was going to say, nowwe've got compliance, stop, stop
.
I'm about to fucking chase youagain.
Nobody's throwing any strikesyet.

Speaker 1 (02:15:30):
Looks like we're double cuffing.

Speaker 5 (02:15:36):
Yeah, he's a thicken, beautiful.

Speaker 1 (02:15:44):
All right, with that I will say fucking, that's
pretty textbook, like I mean forwhat was presented in front of
them.
They handled business.
The only thing that wasn'ttextbook was the.
I liked that the officerdecided to grab the keys and
actually tell the guy like nowyou're not going fucking
anywhere.

(02:16:04):
I wouldn't have thought of that, I wouldn't have.
I'd have been handling businesson the ground.
Curious what the conversationwas like after the call.
So David Edmondson said I'veseen this one.
Please play it till the end toreally understand how stupid
this perp was.
Okay.

Speaker 5 (02:16:23):
I'm interested now.

Speaker 1 (02:16:25):
Now you've got me, you had.
What does he say?
That's clickbait.
You had my curiosity, now youhave my interest.

Speaker 4 (02:16:33):
I need an ad for that guy's company or something let
me see here yeah, we're to theend.

Speaker 1 (02:16:41):
Yeah, alright brought to you by.

Speaker 5 (02:16:43):
Hotlamp you alright it's over now you, alright.
No man, alright, what's wrong?
Alright, yeah, we good.
No man, all right.
What's wrong?
Let me out this car?
No, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:16:57):
Yeah, we good, While I'm searching the vehicle.
I instinctively walk to the restof the store to discover
multiple cases of zip steel,cases of marijuana, suspected
cocaine and methamphetamine.
Oh, my God, Dude, I tell youbuddy, 2.5 pounds each, a total
weight of 2.5 pounds each, atotal weight of 12.5 pounds.
Yeah, dang, 35 vacuums for bumsthat suspect marijuana so

(02:17:28):
that's why he was nervous.
22 vacuums for the bags ofsuspected crystal meth with a
weight of 24 pounds each.
A couple of 24 pounds for aweight of suspected crystal meth
144 pounds yeah.
That's some shit man.
Officers also recovered over$72,000 in cash.

Speaker 3 (02:18:01):
Yeah, the combo is in the wrong place.
I'm with you on this.
You already know it's dope.

Speaker 4 (02:18:06):
You stop searching.

Speaker 3 (02:18:08):
Rip stuff open Get your two-mounted Right.

Speaker 1 (02:18:13):
What if it's fentanyl ?
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:18:15):
I was like what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (02:18:18):
hey, man, that's what they did on Miami Vice.
The next thing they're gonna dois they're gonna lick their
knife yeah that's real shit.

Speaker 3 (02:18:24):
No, the next thing they're gonna, next thing
they're gonna do, yeah, fentanyl, next thing they're gonna do is
take a photo.

Speaker 1 (02:18:29):
Oh for sure you got to have a trophy picture.
Listen, I'm not above a trophypicture y'all.
If I help make a huge bust, I'mgoing to take a trophy picture.
There we go, wow.

Speaker 3 (02:18:48):
Hell, yeah.
Yeah, it was worth watching tothe end.
There was a guy.
I pulled over on a pickup truckfor a loud stereo, like big
bumping stereo.
I get him out.
And I asked him hey, do me afavor, step to the back of the
truck with me.
He does no problem.

(02:19:08):
And I said hey, I just stoppedyou for the car stereo.
I'm just going to give you awarning on that.

Speaker 5 (02:19:16):
I'm not going to write you a ticket, but it is
late at night, so can you turnit down, what he's like.

Speaker 3 (02:19:18):
I said, hey, you're free to go before you leave is
okay if I talk to you for asecond.
He's like sure I go anythingillegal in the car because
that's all consensual right.

Speaker 1 (02:19:23):
Hold on, let's.
Let's not gloss over that,because I want, I want to
understand what you just did.

Speaker 3 (02:19:30):
Yeah.
So I say I'm giving a, givingyour words.
You have to make yourenforcement decision.
You got to make sure they havetheir license back.
So if you don't want to haveany trouble getting consent, you
can't be hanging over anythingover their head.
So make sure they have theirlicense, any documentation.
Make sure you told them.
You don't have to tell themthey're free to go, but it
always on the scale looks betterif you do.
But there's no requirement totell them that.
The question is, would areasonable person have felt like

(02:19:51):
they were free to leave?
So I tell them hey, appreciateit, I'm going to give you a
warning.
So I made my enforcementdecision.
I give them the license backand I say you're free to go.
Hey, before you leave, is it OKif I talk to you?
If they say, sure, that'sconsensual.
Now I don't have a timeline, Ican keep them there as long
looking for drugs, whatever thecase may be.
He said okay, if I search yourcar.
He said, sure, I have a backofficer with me.

(02:20:11):
I walk up, I pull the bucketseat forward, I shut it back, I
walk back and I arrest him.
He had just pounds and poundsand pounds of drugs just sitting
right there.
You got to ask yourself.
He had it on the floorboard ofthe passenger side.
He had the entire back of hispickup bed filled with drugs and

(02:20:34):
I was like what are youthinking?
You know what his answer was.
I thought if I said you could,you wouldn't, you wouldn't.
You tried reverse technology.
Yeah, he did.
I was like he's okay by himself.

Speaker 1 (02:20:48):
I had a guy.
Real quick I had a guy give mepermission to search his vehicle
.
I ended up only finding like acouple joints on them.
They were sweating, acting realnervous.
The passenger threw up.
Um long story short, I let himgo.
But I did a really detailedreport because they were arian
brotherhood guys.

(02:21:08):
They had two five-gallonbuckets of meth oil in the truck
and because I described it sowell in my information report
and tagged narcotics, theyrealized what I had found and
they ended up going back andfinding those guys within 18

(02:21:28):
hours and then finding the methoil.
I had never heard of meth oil.
I was just a patrol officer,like I knew what meth was but I
thought it was like transmissionoil or something like that.
Didn't know.

Speaker 4 (02:21:41):
Makes you crawl a little faster.

Speaker 1 (02:21:43):
Yeah.
So I had used like a stir stickthat they had in the back of
their truck to make sure therewas like no keys hiding in the
bucket.
And I I described the color ofthe liquid in my report.
I was like, yeah, it has somesort of red liquid and they said
it was transmission fluid andyou know, that made sense.
They were truck guys, theyworked on trucks, as you know
mechanics and whatever but Iknew the way they were behaving

(02:22:07):
was not right.
So there was something therethat I just wasn't getting and,
yeah, it ended up being meth oil, one of the biggest busts that
I had missed out on because Ididn't know any better.
But two, five gallon bucketsfor anybody wondering, the size
of a bust is basically on weightand liquid is the heaviest form

(02:22:31):
that you're going to get.
So I missed out on that.
But is what it is?
So let's uh, let's go to thenext video here, share and big
size and play, all right Things.

(02:22:53):
I'm noticing right away Winterroads.
It's at night.
Traffic tends to be less atnight, but we've got winter
roads, so that is a factor.
We can't get too high speedchasing this person, but they
can't get too high speed becausethey'll just lose control real

(02:23:15):
quick.
So things to consider we haveno idea.
We're going to give updates,deeds, direct travel Luckily it

(02:23:35):
looks like a single cab truckwhere there's probably only two
people in there at most.
Not going to be a very highspeed pursuit.
Not going to put very welleither.
Nowhere I'm at, we cannot fit.
That's scary.
Okay, jared, from here, how areyou handling this?

Speaker 4 (02:24:02):
I mean you're in a shit situation right now.
Right Now you're face-to-facewith them.

Speaker 1 (02:24:08):
So you know, try and get some sort of cover that's
going back behind your trunk.

Speaker 4 (02:24:10):
It looks like he's in a Crown Vic, so you can
hopefully see that's going backbehind your trunk.
It looks like he's in a CrownVic, so you can hopefully see up
over the top of your car.
Or you're stuck with your cardoor.

Speaker 1 (02:24:19):
Yeah, it's a shitty spot to be in Banning.
I'm going to give you anopportunity to try to talk here.
Let's see what the fuck you cansay with your shitty internet.
Can you hear me?
I can hear you.
Holy shit you.
Can you hear me?
I can hear you.
Holy shit, you can hear me.

Speaker 2 (02:24:34):
Excuse my friend hear you for now.
My god, okay, I didn't get tosee the video, but at least I
can talk.

Speaker 1 (02:24:40):
Go ahead you didn't see it I only saw bits and
pieces okay, all right, we'llkeep going.
I just wanted to make sure wecan hear you, then we'll keep.
We'll keep going.
Basically, they pit maneuveredthis vehicle on a traffic uh
pursuit.
We didn't.
We have no idea why or what'sgoing on, so I'm gonna keep
going from here.
Oh my god, guys, pin him.

(02:25:08):
Why are we stopping?
Pin that vehicle.
I would positive pressure everyside of this car.
That's what I would be goingfor from here.
But, vaughn, you do what yougot to do.
Buddy, let me know, vaughn, ifsomething comes up and you got

(02:25:30):
to go.
I want to give you anopportunity to say goodbye.
So, um, so, from here, I wouldbe pinning this vehicle.
Jared, what do you got?

Speaker 4 (02:25:42):
so my agency, we cannot pin um.
That being said, you know, ifcircumstances dictate.
I don't know the totality ofcircumstances by in this call um
, but yes, I would like to see apin as well.
Um, but all around you aresetting up yourself for horrible
crossfire.

Speaker 1 (02:26:00):
Yes, yes, absolutely so um yeah.
Oh yeah, I didn't even considerthat.
Yeah, you're right, thisfucking gas station.

Speaker 3 (02:26:12):
Yeah, well, I put it next to the gas station.
That was my good job on that.
Don't end up thinking the same.

Speaker 1 (02:26:18):
Yeah, I didn't.
Guys, the smoke wagon's hittingme pretty hard.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm not thinking as clearly asI normally would, I'm getting a
little loose.
So I do want to give outshotguns and tattoos.
Gave out five memberships.
So Steve Wallace, who isprobably the most deserving of
anybody to get that, because hehas never missed a live that

(02:26:43):
I've seen.
He's the only one that's nevermissed a live.
So Lucia received one.
Rico Suave great song, Iremember that.
And Beers with Bears.
I like that.
That's actually a really coolname.
So all got one.
Tim said who runs from cops inthe snow.
That's the single moststupidest thing you can do in

(02:27:06):
the north.
That is true.
But hey, desperate times callsfor desperate measures.
Man, All right, let's keepgoing.
Stop, or you're going to getbit by a dog Stop, stop or exit
the vehicle.
Exit the vehicle with your handsup.
One person's talking.

(02:27:27):
I like that, bye-bye.
Get back in the car Whoa.
K9, you're itching.
This is your realm here.
Banner, he just bumped his ownguy.

(02:27:50):
We're we're all reversepursuing right now.
That's a first.
I don't think I've ever seenthat like bonnie go, yeah, oh,
he said over here.
Yeah, oh, he said he'll beright back.

(02:28:14):
For those that don't thinkcanines love what they do, here
is an exact example of the.
They fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (02:28:24):
Pause.
That for one second, Eric.

Speaker 1 (02:28:26):
Oh, it's paused, buddy.

Speaker 2 (02:28:27):
Okay, just sorry, I got a lag, I might not apologize
.
So here's the deal.
We just watched him do a pitmaneuver.
Traffic is obviously light whenhe's backing up and those units
are backing into each other.
Would you not see it plausiblefor one of those units?
I understand that some of ushere in our policies we couldn't
box people in or whatnot.
If we can do a pit maneuver andwork with me on this, because

(02:28:50):
I'm just spitballing, you can doa pit maneuver on this why
can't we stop it before itbecomes a pit maneuver?
It's going to be less damage.
We can box it in, be done withit, extract, go to a felony.
You know, stop and be done withit.
I mean, do you agree or not?
No, absolutely agree.
I mean I understand policiesthere, but if you can articulate

(02:29:10):
the facts enough to where youdon't want this to get up to a
high speed chase, we're going toget it to where it's locked in,
right then.
And there, yes, you may getwritten up yada, yada, yada.
I'd rather take a write up thansomebody else on the highway
getting hurt.
And if they're going to fire mefor that, they're going to fire

(02:29:38):
me for that.
To begin with, we go into afelony traffic stop.
Articulate very well in ourreport, go through our aar, for
if you don't know what thatmeans, our after action report
at whatever department we workwith.
Just freaking stop that mess,be done with it.
Articulate it very well andthen maybe command staff needs
to look at our freaking generalorders or whatever they're
calling your department torelook at that, especially when
you get ice on the ground andsnow on the ground like this yep
, yep, agreed, all right, let'sMarine Bloods take it easy
tonight.

Speaker 1 (02:29:57):
Buddy, I see you're logging out, but, man, if
anybody deserved to get anaccount, but didn't, it's you.
But if I was going to laugh atanybody more, it would be you.
So that's funny.
So see you, bud.
All right, keep going, it wouldbe you.
So, uh, that's funny.
So see you, bud.
All right, let's keep going.
It does become a point whereyou realize the guy's just being

(02:30:25):
an asshole.
He's not.
He's not gonna be an actualthreat.
I don't think this guy's goingto be an actual threat, but he
is.
He's bordering on that line.
Oh, the dog in the truck, holyshit.
Oh, my God.
That is the ultimate fuck.

(02:30:47):
All right there, damn.
What do you do?
I'm going to go, I'm going togo, I'm going to go, I'm going
to go, I'm going to go, I'mgoing to go.
Oh my God, that is the ultimatefuck.
All right there, damn.
What do you do?
All right, I've never been acanine guy, jared, have you ever
done canine?
No, okay, banning has, sobanning's our expert.

Speaker 2 (02:31:08):
What the fuck.
I mean, here's the deal.
I'm going to go back.
I'm sorry, I'm sure these aregreat cops.
Stop that shit when it stoppedearlier.
I don't care if you got anystop sticks or whatever.
When you start getting thatmomentum back up and I'm
preaching to the choir, eveneverybody that's watching get
the shit stopped now.
If you want to deploy a dog,that's fine.
I don't know what the initialstop was, other than I think

(02:31:29):
somebody said DUI or somebodymentioned alcohol Maybe it was
in a comment, right, but we gotto stop that.
I mean, this guy gets up tohigh speed and hits somebody.
It's on us, right, we had somany chances to stop this, but
right here, here's the deal.
The dude's obviously notstopping.
K-9 is considered less thanlethal.
Okay, depending on where thedog bites.
If you have enough training,you can articulate that we can

(02:31:50):
deploy that dog.
As you can see, he looks likehe's a sergeant or corporal.
He still has what's called along lead or a medium lead.
That's on that dog.
He's giving the command toengage.
He's not giving the command togo in there and step.
He's giving the command toengage.
So what he's trying to do is,once that dog attaches, he can
digress with the dog, he canpull that dog back out, that he

(02:32:12):
can maintain control of thatsubject.

Speaker 1 (02:32:14):
So I don't I don't have the problem with a dog
deployment, as long as that dogis trained properly okay, now my
only concern is if that car isnot 100 stopped, what do they do
if that guy pulls off with thedog still in the car?

Speaker 2 (02:32:30):
yeah, yeah, I had a habit of you know, regardless of
policy.
I broke policy on severaloccasions.
Here I am, I'm still here, aslong as you articulate it,
everything that's going on inthat pursuit.
If you want to box him in andyou get a little dent in the car
that's the size of a creditcard, suck it.
We're stopping the guy fromhurting the public.
Just do it and be done with it.
Go against public.

(02:32:54):
Just do it and be done with it.
Yeah, go against the civilreview panel or whatever, but
just get it stopped.
I understand these policies.
There's good, good reason forthose, but come on.

Speaker 1 (02:32:59):
I'm gonna push back on mr billfold here.
He said eric laughs at marineblood but does his pt test on
exercise bike.
No sir, I run a mile and a half.
I do my push-ups and I do mysit-ups.
Thank you very much.
So yeah, that's where we're at.
I actually ran three milestoday Did you say plural.

(02:33:19):
What did you say?

Speaker 3 (02:33:20):
You want us to believe you do plural push-ups.
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (02:33:24):
I do, you do.
I will push back on a lot of.
What is fun for me is when Ishow up to my military time and
I do my PT test and I score, youknow, a 92 to a 96.
I usually I will never get 100.
Here's why.

Speaker 3 (02:33:46):
No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (02:33:47):
It's the run time that gets me.
I cannot run a mile and a halfin 928.
That is I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:33:53):
I'm 42, 42, I don't care who you are hey, eric, I
may be a big guy now, but themarines, I was doing an 18
minute three mile and that's uh,that's moving pretty yeah yeah,
I was too bitch when I was inmy 20s, but guess what?

Speaker 1 (02:34:06):
I'm 42 now.

Speaker 2 (02:34:07):
So you want to see how fast I can do in a tahoe now
.

Speaker 1 (02:34:10):
Yeah, if I want to get 100 on my PT test, I have to
run a 928 mile and a half, andthat is not happening.

Speaker 4 (02:34:18):
I'm a runner, I can't even do that Right.

Speaker 1 (02:34:21):
I'm a runner and I ran three miles today.
I ran three miles in the hills,217 elevation, and I did it in
29 minutes and some change maybe18 seconds.
Not terrible.
But if I'm gonna go out and runa flat 1.5 miles, my best and

(02:34:43):
I'm talking running out of myshoes I'm lucky if I'm gonna get
12 to 11, 30 somewhere in there.
I am not getting anywherefucking close to 928.
Kiss my ass.
I can max out on push-ups, Ican max out on sit-ups, but I'm
not gonna come close to that runtime it's just never, what's

(02:35:04):
your max?

Speaker 3 (02:35:05):
what is the max I?

Speaker 1 (02:35:06):
believe from my age bracket it's 55, 52 to 55,
somewhere in there are thesereal push-ups or are they kind
of like the?
When I say real.

Speaker 2 (02:35:17):
I'm not saying anything negative.
There are some branches that dodifferent things.
Hand placement how far it's afist?

Speaker 1 (02:35:25):
Yes, it's a fist.
Your chest has to hit the fist,and then sit-ups is elbows got
to touch the thighs.
That's it.
So it's old school, bro, it'snot anything fancy.

Speaker 3 (02:35:38):
I don't care how old you are.
The standard for push-ups forus and we were Army, we weren't
Marines the standard forpush-ups was 110 for our crew,
and I don't mean our totalpoints.
That's how many reps you had todo in two minutes, oh, in two
minutes.
I've got a minute, I gotta do55.

Speaker 1 (02:36:01):
Oh yeah, okay, fair enough I can watch someone run
three miles in 18 minutes frommy truck while I'm eating tacos.
That is the life, sir.
I fucking love tacos.
I'm with you.
So, all right, I want to seehow this this call plays a
little too casual for me, Iwould.

(02:36:22):
Uh, nobody's got a gun out, butyet we're deploying the dog.
Nobody's on the other side ofthe vehicle that I'm seeing.
Okay, and that's all we get?
Okay, fair enough, fair enough,we've got to share this video.

(02:36:46):
Instead.
We got one more video.
Guys, we're going to share thislast video.
Let's see what we got.
We've got no lights on our view.
Okay, we got our gloves.
All right, if I were to guessright now, this car was either

(02:37:22):
abandoned in the street andthey're running the plate and
doing what they're doing, orwe've got a drunk passed out
behind the wheel.

Speaker 4 (02:37:29):
Yeah, I was going to go with that one.

Speaker 1 (02:37:31):
That's kind of how I'm seeing this.
I'm still leaning towards drunk.
Now can see him like he'spassed out.

(02:37:52):
Okay for me, this is how Iwould handle it.
I'm gonna back off, I'm gonnaget my car nosed up, nose to
nose a little positive pressure.
But I want a secondary unit tocome up and hit the back side of
this car so this car cannotwake up and then suddenly hit
the gas pedal.

Speaker 3 (02:38:12):
Yep, you got stop sticks.
Are you thinking stop sticks?
Yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (02:38:16):
Piranhas is what we call them, or you can actually
get out the full stop sticks ifyou want, but we have something
called piranhas or terminators,and those are made to be
deployed by hand underneath thetires.
So I would agree that's anotheroption here.

Speaker 3 (02:38:39):
Roll down the window.

Speaker 1 (02:38:41):
Chat's giving you some love, jared, and.

Speaker 4 (02:38:45):
Vaughn, it's locked.

Speaker 1 (02:38:57):
Your boy is wasted.
That's what this is.
Hey, roll down the window, putyour car in park.
Car in park, kay's awake.

Speaker 5 (02:39:13):
Car in park.

Speaker 1 (02:39:15):
Hey, nope, k is awake what are you going to do?
Stop this is where you justabandon.
Jump in your vehicle, get thefuck out of the way and just
wait to see what's going tohappen.
Put it in park.

Speaker 2 (02:39:33):
Put it in park, jump in your vehicle get the fuck out
of the way and just wait to seewhat's going to happen.

Speaker 4 (02:39:37):
Put it in park, put it in park.

Speaker 1 (02:39:45):
Nope, hang on snap.
I don't know what he just swungat him, just crashed.

Speaker 4 (02:39:59):
What did he crash into?
Get out of the car.
I'm sorry, sir, I'm sorry.
There you go.

Speaker 5 (02:40:05):
Get out of the car, nope nope, nope, stop, stop, get
out of the car, get out of thecar, get out of the car, get out
of the car, get out of the car.

Speaker 1 (02:40:14):
There's no training for this.
It doesn't matter who you are.
There's no training for this.
What do you?
Got Jared?

Speaker 4 (02:40:24):
I mean, did he throw something at the car when he
pulled away?
Like, was he pissed off andthrew something?

Speaker 1 (02:40:28):
I think he hit it with the baton.

Speaker 4 (02:40:30):
Okay, I was trying to figure out what he did.

Speaker 1 (02:40:31):
I think that's what he was trying to do.

Speaker 4 (02:40:34):
Yeah, I mean you're in a crap situation but, like I
said, I would agree with youJust disengage, wait for it to
land or get some more friendsout there.
But he's crashed Now you got todeal with it.

Speaker 1 (02:40:44):
Yeah, and you're in the car, I mean my man's in car.
So freeman keys said I have toget up early.
Thank you, eric banning, jaredvaughn and alan love hanging
with you guys at an issue withhow police work, but you guys do
well explaining shit.
Appreciate y'all, thank youvery much appreciate you,

(02:41:04):
freeman.
Um, let's keep going here.
Oh shit, no it painkiller.
Remote monitoring andmanagement.
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:41:18):
We're going to have to fast forward.

Speaker 1 (02:41:19):
One of these days we'll make enough money to where
we can get it without ads.
No shit, I have to go back.
13 stars mark.
Sounds like he extends hisbaton again Trying to break a

(02:41:41):
window.

Speaker 4 (02:41:42):
Get out of the car.

Speaker 1 (02:41:43):
I'm sorry, sir, I'm sorry.
No, get out of the car.
No, no, no, stop Stop.

Speaker 4 (02:41:46):
Get out of the car Get out of the car?
It is not easy to do?

Speaker 1 (02:41:51):
No, it is not.
You got to aim for the cornersand hope you hit it.

Speaker 5 (02:41:54):
Just right, get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.
Get out of the car.

Speaker 1 (02:42:08):
Get out of the car.

Speaker 5 (02:42:09):
Taser, taser, taser.
Perfectly okay with using ataser here.

Speaker 1 (02:42:16):
You could hear him revving the engine.
Get down on the ground.

Speaker 5 (02:42:18):
now Give me your hand bro.

Speaker 1 (02:42:20):
Important part to point out nobody's throwing
strikes.
They tried the taser, extractedhim and now they're just using
joint manipulation.
So for the narrative that copsare out here just trying to kill
people and trying to fuckpeople up and all that stuff,
like, here's an example.
This is something that I'mtrying to point out to you guys.
Like it's not what this officertried to do.

(02:42:40):
He used the taser at anappropriate time.
This guy was trying to hammerthe gas he's obviously wasted
off of his ass, so it's a goodtime for that.

Speaker 5 (02:42:49):
I am bro, I am bro, I am bro, I am bro.

Speaker 1 (02:42:54):
Now they're trying to get his hands behind his back,
to get him in his cuffs.

Speaker 5 (02:42:59):
Get a cuff on his right hand.

Speaker 1 (02:43:00):
Everybody's slowing down, nobody's escalating Are
you guys all good.

Speaker 5 (02:43:05):
Yeah, got another officer checking on officer
safety and well-being Good.

Speaker 1 (02:43:09):
Good, got another officer checking on officer
safety and well-being Good.
Now you got a cross-dressingscene.

Speaker 4 (02:43:29):
I got a pistol at least one.

Speaker 1 (02:43:37):
Guys driving around like that Arms About it.
That happens in this video.
Uh, we're gonna stop sharingthat.
We'll go to our.

(02:43:59):
That was a pretty open and shutdwi um with a ucw charge that
you're probably an awfulunlawful carrying of a weapon,
yeah so uh sigma said, if thecops didn't try to wake him up
in the middle of the road, henever would have taken off and
hit the pole.
N-q-i-j-k.

(02:44:22):
I get what you're saying, butyeah, I would not have tried to
wake him up without another unitthere.
If we're going to improve thatevery video we watch, guys, the
idea is to improve policing.
How can we improve Officers?
If you're watching this, thisis how you should be taking

(02:44:44):
every call that's got somesignificance to it.
I'm not talking about you took aguy to jail for public
intoxication or whatever, butsomething like this.
This is significant.
You got a gun off of this.
You got a dwi.
This is a big case.
So what can you do better?
What can you learn from?
In this one, I would have had acar in front of it.

(02:45:04):
I would have had a car behindit and then I would have tried
to wake him up.
There was no rush.
Why did we rush it?
yeah, things to consider what doyou got Jared?

Speaker 4 (02:45:14):
Yeah, no, I agree.
And then the other thing like Ihad no problem with the tasing
at all.
The only caveat I would say ishe was trying to get away at one
point and when you do tase,muscles tense.
And if his foot was on the gas,you know, it could have caused
the car to lurch, but he wasn'tgoing anywhere in this Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:45:29):
Yep, that happens a lot.
Something to consider, too, iswhen we're using the taser and
you're the one that pulls thetrigger on the taser, but
somebody else's hands on withthat person and they feel that
person tense up.
Now they're mistaking theneuromuscular incapacitation for
resistance.

Speaker 2 (02:45:48):
Things to consider, so all these, all these videos
that we watch to the officersthat are watching.
Go pay your local friggingscrap yard that's got cars out
there to learn how to break afrigging window, right, yeah.
I'm sorry, yeah, you knowthey're.
They just don't teach thatenough in the academy.
The FDO phase is not teachingyou unless you get into a

(02:46:10):
situation, and a lot of timesyou don't have time to act when
you need to break that friggingwindow.
It needs to happen now.
Yep, this whole thing ofextending your baton and tapping
it.
These are this is temperedglass, it's.
It's not.
It's designed to take impactslike that.
Yep, you gotta cross throughthat damn thing or you gotta get
a.
You know, spend a few bucks onAmazon, get a window breaker,
have that on your frigging batbelt, break that frigging window

(02:46:33):
and get the job done.
This whole frigging hitting thewindow or punching the window.
Stop watching the friggingmovies.

Speaker 4 (02:46:41):
Spend the $5 and get the spring loaded punch.

Speaker 1 (02:46:45):
We're issued them, so they're right on the visor in
every patrol car.
So Harrison Brock said two cops, one donut.
Having the gun is not an issuein itself.
You're correct.
It's not.
However, when you are heavilyintoxicated, driving a vehicle
and fleeing and causing a felony.
Now having a gun is an issue.
That's when it does become anissue.

(02:47:07):
Other than that.
That is all the videos we havefor tonight, guys.
So I want we've.
I would like to end right atthe three hour period.
So we're at two 47 right now.
If you have any questions forJared, I want to.
I want to kind of open that upright now, because he's in a

(02:47:27):
unique position.
He works on a reservation as anofficer with three different
jurisdictions.
I should say what is it?
You've got federal state andreservation Tribal.
Correct, yep, tribal.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:47:46):
Before that I also did.
I was four years as a city coptoo, so I've got the whole
compass.

Speaker 1 (02:47:51):
Yeah, so in that, if you guys have any questions or
anything for jared on that,please ask them now, because I,
I feel like we didn't even quiteget into that, uh, and that was
kind of the benefit of havinghim on here tonight.
But, as you can see, themindset's still the same, the
training is still prettyidentical to everybody else and,

(02:48:12):
uh, I I just want to open thatup and you guys have already put
it out there.
You thanked him for being on,so I appreciate the audience
tonight.
I feel like we've reallycovered some good stuff.
Alan said, and then he has thehair.
Oh man.
Nina said two cops, one donate.

(02:48:33):
Great compilation of videos.
Thank you very much, mr Baleful.
Jared, are you tribal, federaland state concurrently?

Speaker 4 (02:48:43):
Yeah.
So the way it works is we kindof follow a diagram.
So if we're arresting somebodywho's a Native American, we
charge tribally.
If we're arresting somebodywho's a Native American, we
charge tribally.
If they commit against astateside person, it goes
federal.
Or if it's just a state personfrom Arizona traveling through,
they get charged by the state.
So at any given time I'menforcing all three.

Speaker 1 (02:49:16):
Now the interesting part that I want to point out
that I only know because oftalking to Jared is they don't
have the same rules that I haveas a police officer in the state
of Texas.
So, for instance, if I want toset up a camera in a certain
place, I may need a warrant, orif I want to pull over a certain
car, I may need probable causeor a traffic offense.
I don't know how that works ona reservation.
How does that work for you,jared?

Speaker 4 (02:49:37):
Yeah, I mean, most of the time it's the same rules.
There are some like there'ssome tribal laws that differ
than state and federal laws, butreally it follows closely to
how you're used to.
The difference is the res Iwork on is a sovereign nation,
so the state of Arizona.
You're allowed to carry a gunanywhere you want.
It's the wild wild west but noton the sovereign reservation.

(02:49:59):
So if you are not from thereand you do not have a permit,
you are not legally allowed tocarry it there.
So that's kind of one of thosedifferences.

Speaker 1 (02:50:07):
Okay, Sigma asks tribal supersedes federal.
Is that true?

Speaker 4 (02:50:13):
No, they kind of go hand in hand, so tribal can go
federal or vice versa, if thatmakes sense.

Speaker 1 (02:50:25):
It's kind of like a severity of the crime and all
people involved.
Okay, Fair enough.
Now what type of crimes are youtypically seeing on a
reservation?

Speaker 4 (02:50:35):
I mean, we get the same as everyone else I'd say.
We do see a lot of domesticviolence, we see a lot of drunk
driving.
The casinos are a cesspool forstuff.
They, you know, you get fraud,prostitution, so it's really
it's a lot of the same stuff wejust maybe see more of, like the
DVs and the drunk driving andstuff like that.

(02:50:56):
And that's also because ourcity is a destination city, so
we have a lot of things thatKind of broke up there.

Speaker 1 (02:51:08):
You got your DV city, and what was that?

Speaker 4 (02:51:12):
So we're like a destination city, so there's a
lot of attractions to go tothings like that.

Speaker 1 (02:51:17):
Okay.
Harrison asks can the FBI makean arrest on a reservation?

Speaker 4 (02:51:22):
Sure can.
Yep, we work with FBI all thetime and the Marshalls guys DEA
all them.

Speaker 1 (02:51:28):
Constitutional Country Girl asks Jared what is
the biggest crime on Tribal?

Speaker 4 (02:51:30):
constitutional country girl asked Jared what is
the biggest crime on tribal?
I don't know if there really isjust one like solid crime.
I don't.
I mean it's.
It's the same as everywhereelse.
Really, Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (02:51:44):
Mr Billfold said next time, give Jared the first hour
, then we will do videos.
I think it is a great story tobe heard.
It is an issue of sovereigntyand jurisdiction as to what
person's rights are.
I'm definitely planning to doan actual podcast with Jared
where it's no interaction withthe crowd but at the same time,

(02:52:08):
jared and I are friends, sogetting him on here is never
going to be a problem.
It's kind of one of the thingsI probably took too much
advantage of and just or Ishould say took it for granted,
and I need to have him on heremore for sure, especially given
that he has such a uniqueability as a cop.

(02:52:30):
It's not normal at all.
It's nothing I've I.
It's nothing I've ever had.

Speaker 4 (02:52:35):
The privilege of doing.
I'm fucking weird, just say it.

Speaker 1 (02:52:39):
It is weird.
It is weird but it's cool atthe same time, and that's only
because I'm a nerd of thecriminal justice system, so I
love it, but uh, no, um, jared,is there anything that you want
to get out there that we haven'ttalked about yet?
As far as what you think peopleshould know about your position
, I'd say the biggest.

Speaker 4 (02:53:00):
I guess one of them is you know, a lot of people
think that you do have to be youknow of Native American to work
on the tribal nation.
And there's some are.
Ours is not.
But I guess the biggest thingis a lot of people think that
tribal nations are like slower,behind the times, technology
wise things like that.
The one I work for is one ofthe most advanced in the country

(02:53:20):
that I've ever seen.
Um, they've great technology.
They host the diamond backsthere, they have a spring
training stadium.
So it's not really what youpicture in your head of a tribal
nation to be.
You wouldn't have any idea whenyou cross our, our, sovereignty
line.

Speaker 1 (02:53:34):
Interesting.
Okay, fair enough Banning.
You got anything, buddy?

Speaker 2 (02:53:40):
I'm just curious I'm sure everybody's got a lot of
questions for Jared and I know alot of uh, railroad police.
Do you guys have railroadscoming through and do you guys?
Have issues or jointinvestigations that go with the
railroad police coming through,and do you guys have issues or
joint investigations that gowith the railroad police coming
through there?

Speaker 4 (02:53:55):
no, we don't have any interstate railroads that go
through area.
We do have a lot of interstateum freeways and we work with
arizona's department of publicsafety quite a bit um, because
there's big drug corridors andthings like that right
outstanding okay interestingyeah, it was weird because I I
went went out where Jared's atbefore stayed at one of the

(02:54:18):
casinos and it was probably thebest room I've ever had in my
life.

Speaker 2 (02:54:23):
That's probably when you saw Frank.

Speaker 1 (02:54:25):
Right, it was when I saw Frank.
Yes, it was, yeah, Frank from afew weeks ago.
It was amazing, it was verycool um I see the beauty in the
desert, having been out thereand hey, jared, what section of
it?

Speaker 2 (02:54:41):
not to interrupt there.
Sorry I got a delay.
What section of arizona are youin, uh?

Speaker 4 (02:54:46):
so if we're in scottsdale zip code um, so we're
in the very rich, affluent area, um, like I said, you wouldn't
have any idea.
You crossed over into thereservation until you like
realize you're like, I haven'tseen a house in a while, like
then you'll know oh, so it'sprobably in between scottsdale
and pinell county.

Speaker 2 (02:55:03):
If I were to guess, yeah okay, yeah, we're in still
maricopa county in.

Speaker 4 (02:55:07):
Technically, our scottsdale's our zip code okay I
used to live on camelbackmountains.

Speaker 1 (02:55:12):
While I was asking oh yeah yeah, do you guys uh wear
body cams where you're at?
Yep, okay.
And then uh tim said do youever get into uh?

Speaker 4 (02:55:21):
get into it with other cops over jurisdiction um,
no, the the biggest thing andmost of the agencies that work
around us we work very well with.
The biggest thing that theyknow is they actually can't come
onto our community only for tworeasons One, we invite them, or
two, they're in hot pursuit.
Otherwise, if they're doing anycase, follow-up or search

(02:55:43):
warrants and stuff like that,they have to come through us.

Speaker 1 (02:55:45):
Okay.
Cajun MFN said I wish theywould disband the ATF because
they love to infringe big timeon Second Amendment.
They think their rulessupersede laws.
I don't see a use for them.

Speaker 4 (02:56:01):
You might get your wish.
Trump's canceling people leftand right.

Speaker 1 (02:56:04):
Yes, he is Really, and no offense to the ATF, but
I'm like alcohol, legal Tobacco,legal Firearms.
Second Amendment why do I needyou?
Let's see what else we got here.
How does that affect searchwarrants and such?
How does that affect searchwarrants, sir?

Speaker 4 (02:56:24):
So if it's our own search warrant, it acts just
like it normally would if it's afederal or tribal.
If it's an outside agency, likesay, scotts the mesa wants to
come in and do a search warrant,they can, but they have to go
through our court system forcomedy and we go out there and
we either serve it for them, weserve it with them.

Speaker 1 (02:56:40):
Oh okay, do you guys?
I would assume serving it withthem is probably the easiest.

Speaker 4 (02:56:46):
Most of the time, yeah, and even when we serve it
with them, it's usually usserving it and they just kind of
hang out, gotcha makes sense,so so does that go to the other
way?

Speaker 2 (02:56:54):
I mean, I'm assuredly no it doesn't, investigations
going into scottsdale, tucson,phoenix, that type of thing.

Speaker 4 (02:57:02):
When we leave yeah, when we go off community, we
want to serve anotherjurisdiction.
It's, it's our game, it's.
It's not a two-way street, it'sa one-way street right?

Speaker 1 (02:57:12):
yeah, I bet it is.
Mr bill boltz had agreed getatf out of here.
Yeah, I just man.
I I'm anti-big government.
The less we can have, I feel,the better yeah, I mean there's
there.

Speaker 4 (02:57:24):
There's a need for regulations, like I don't think
every gun should be able to havea giggle switch on it, but
other than that, you know, true,I yeah man it.

Speaker 1 (02:57:35):
I don't want to get into the guns weed, because damn
, all you got to say is like I'mnot four, nine millimeters.
But and then you're fucked youknow the masses are going to
come after you.
So, um, nina said, jared, Ijust sent you a linkedin request
.
Sir, I would love to learn moreabout tribal laws.
I'm a CJ student fifth year.
Finished my CJ courses in thefirst three years on gen ed.

(02:57:58):
Right now, nina.

Speaker 4 (02:58:00):
I got you beat.

Speaker 1 (02:58:01):
It took me eight years to finish a four-year
degree.
I'm like a doctor for criminaljustice.

Speaker 4 (02:58:06):
I'm super active on LinkedIn, so any of you that
have questions feel free to hitme up there.
If you want to come out toScottsdale and come do a
ride-along, I'd love to have you.

Speaker 1 (02:58:15):
Hell yeah, I recommend anybody.
If you're pro-cop, if you'reanti-cop, please, as long as you
don't have a felony on yourrecord, go do a ride-out.
You can learn so much.

Speaker 4 (02:58:26):
I have to say, what I love about your guys's channel
is you guys, as followers, pushback and make us think yeah.
I freaking love that.
I know you keep me on my toesthe whole time.
You disagreed with some stuff Ihad to say which is your right.
I disagreed with some stuff.
You had to say which is myright, I love it.

Speaker 1 (02:58:42):
Yeah, and that's what we we try to promote here is
I'm not going to band anybody.
I think I have banned maybefour people in four years.
One accidental band, oneaccidental band.
Yes, that's true.

Speaker 2 (02:58:57):
One was accidental.
What was her name?
Freaking Wheelchairs, forWarriors too.

Speaker 1 (02:59:01):
Yes, I know it wasn't even a bad person.
I just accidentallyright-clicked and I was like, oh
, that's not what I meant to do.
And I left and you canceledafter that, oh my God, it was so
bad.
I was like, oh my God, how do Iget her back?
It took, it was a process.
It took like two weeks to gether back on here.
Uh, cause I I didn't know whatthe fuck I was doing.
I just learned for anybodythat's on our YouTube channel.

(02:59:22):
I just learned how to changethe icons.
So I changed all the icons torepresent, like, if you've been
on for a month, month, twomonths, three months, six months
, a year, um, I think the one ofthe few people, mr billfold,
has the red donut right now, um,which shows you know a length
of time.
So I, I did all of that stuffper year, all's request, um, but

(02:59:43):
I think mr billfold was stillpetitioning for something
different.

Speaker 2 (02:59:46):
He said it looked like a prophylactic or something
hey, fucker, I worked at that.

Speaker 1 (02:59:52):
I created all of those icons out of ai.
It took me a good hour and ahalf so I was trying to figure
out how to do that.
You guys know I don't know whatthe fuck I'm doing on there.
So, fuckers, um, yeah, if anyguys are ever, if you figure out
where I work, which isn't hardto do, um, and you're ever

(03:00:13):
interested in riding, totallywould love to have you all hit
me up privately.
You guys know I can't talkabout it on here, but hit me up
privately.
I recommend ride-alongs foranybody that's anti-cop, because
more than likely, if you'reanti-cop and you don't like the
way things are going, you'venever even done a ride-along,

(03:00:33):
which is a travesty.
You cannot have a well-balancedopinion if you've never gone
around and actually seen the job.

Speaker 2 (03:00:43):
Hey, there's Mr Billfold's condom right there.
Look at that.

Speaker 1 (03:00:45):
Where's he?

Speaker 2 (03:00:46):
at Red Hot Condom Looks like a Red Hot.

Speaker 1 (03:00:48):
Condom.
You're welcome.
It's your Red Hot condom, sir,it's a lightsaber.

Speaker 2 (03:00:54):
Come on now, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:00:55):
Come on, Show them the dark side.
Mr Bill Holden Tim, I want toknow if Jared has ever heard of
the auditor James Freeman.
He's from that area.

Speaker 4 (03:01:07):
I don't.
There's a group that goesaround that's pretty YouTube
famous.
I can't remember their name,but he might be a part of them,
but I've never run into him.
It sounds like I wouldn't wantto either.

Speaker 1 (03:01:19):
Harrison Brock.
Eric, it's easy to find yourworkplace, it's not hard, it's
very funny.
We do get some people in thecomments.
Sometimes they're like, ah, hefucking works here.
He's a piece of shit.
I'm like, hey, relax, this isthe thing that you got to
understand, guys.
One of the things we'repromoting is getting guys like

(03:01:41):
Jared, getting guys like Banning, getting guys like me to come
out and talk and do this stuffwhere you never hear from cops.
But it does have the potentialto being ruined because we're
still working for departments.
You can't risk that Now.
Banning is a reservist now, buthe's got over 20 years, so

(03:02:03):
don't ruin his reserve program.
Jared is still currentlyserving and I am still currently
serving.
So, please, I get it.
We're here, we're trying tohelp, we're doing something
different than any other copshave ever done, Uh, and we've
got a lot of cool people onboard.
So let's, let's keep it going.
I think we got a good thinggoing, jared.

(03:02:24):
You got any closing things,brother.

Speaker 4 (03:02:26):
No, I appreciate the time.
This was fun.

Speaker 1 (03:02:39):
Love to do it again.
And thanks for everyone for thecomments and the nice things
and the not so nice things.
I appreciate it and uh, love it.
Sounds good.
Everybody else uh, eric, polkahome, you damn right, I'm gonna
get that bitch pregnant.
Uh, love it.
Uh, nina says anti-cops need todo volunteer programs that will
change their minds.
Uh, love it.
All.
Right, guys, everybody, thankyou for joining in tonight.
I think we had a great show.
Please, it's free, like,subscribe, follow everything
that we got going on.
If you want to help support theshow in a more financial and

(03:03:05):
with a monetary way, please feelfree to subscribe with the
money donations.
That does help us.
I don't know what the words arecalled and the smoke wagon's
hitting me hard, so I'm going togo in and eat a bunch of junk
food after this.
But thank you everybody,everybody else.
Have a good night.

(03:03:25):
This will be up for our podcast.
We'll have this available foryou to just listen to.
Other than that, everybody,take it.
Take it easy.
Have a good night.
Fuck, I'm drunk.
Take.
Have a good night.
Love you all.

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