September 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Richard and Pat discuss following Jesus while living in a secular world. They talk about how they have learned through experience that taking your focus off of your faith can lead to worshiping the things that the world places importance on, and how it will rob you of the life of peace, joy and happiness that God wants you to live.
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(00:20):
and welcome to the two UnlikelyChristians podcast.
I'm comedian Pat McCool, and nowacross the Atlantic Ocean to
world renowned psychotherapistand addiction specialist,
Richard Terrell.
Thank you, pat.
Not just yet, you know, butworking, working, working on it.
World renowned.
(00:41):
Richard, where am I sitting?
Mississippi, am I admirer ofyours or do I do I do.
Do I?
Do I pay attention to your work?
Believe you did that.
Yes.
That'd make you world renowned.
Nice.
Transatlantic, at least.
Japan Atlantic and we have a,uh, we have a lot of followers
(01:03):
in America.
So your world renowned with themtoo.
Awesome.
And actually, and I have heardfeedback that you have, uh, some
of your information has made adifference in, in people's
lives.
And, uh, and we've actuallyadded a few countries too.
Uh, Italy checked in with us.
I guess they, uh, they heardabout my grandfather ordering a
bologna sandwich in an Italianrestaurant and ordering a milk
(01:25):
of magnesia from my grandmother.
And thought, we'll give theseguys a listen.
So yeah.
Word master spread part.
It crossed.
Yeah.
Um.
Got down in the boot.
Okay.
Well, I know you've had a busyday, today.
My week is just now startingoff.
So let's get to our topic todaythat what we have wanted to talk
to, and it is a very timely,topic today.
(01:48):
We wanna talk about followingJesus while living in the world,
and that has several different,tracks in my mind.
But let's start with yourthoughts on this.
Yeah, thanks Pat.
Like for me.
Like you say, there's different,um, connotations to this.
Um, one is, so for me, the, theprimary one that I had to work
(02:13):
on, continue to have to work on,is not being seduced by the
shiny things that the worldoffers.
Like the comforts, thepleasures, you know, the
external validations, you know,things that like I, I really
pursued before as a believer.
And, and fall into pursuing now,you know, money, you know,
(02:33):
acclaim, you know, lot of stuff,things, you know, like watches,
you know, a nice car, you know,not like designer clothes and
all that stuff.
Yeah.
And recognizing that actuallylike my, you know, who I am and
in Christ is not in any waybased on those things, you know,
that those things aretransitory.
(02:55):
Yeah.
They don't last, you know, wedon't store up treasures on
earth.
Yeah.
Where the vermin can eat themand they become corroded
actually, where, you know, welive here knowing that this
isn't our home.
That, you know, we havesomewhere else to go, that we
serve a higher purpose, and thatthat stuff is not, you know,
that's like, that stuff's notour God.
(03:16):
So there's, that's for me,that's the, the one that's
really required some attentionand some work, you know, since
becoming a, a believer andsometimes it's really, I feel
really kind of cleansed aroundthat stuff.
I feel like the spirit has likewashed a lot of that stuff, that
stuff out of me, you know?
And other times not so much, youknow?
(03:40):
Yes, I, the, I'm glad you saidthat'cause that's the first
aspect of what I was thinkingbecause I am the poster child
for that because going backwhen, you know, and if you read
my book, you know, the subtitlewas One Man's Walk Towards God,
which started in a jail cell,uh, where I'm sitting there,
made a complete mess of myentire life.
(04:02):
Uh, led a miserable, unhappylife all the way up to that
point.
And then I turn and I starthaving this conversation with
God.
I start this walk towards God.
I haven't become a true followerof Jesus, but I turn towards
God.
Things start changing in mylife.
Uh, and following God led to memeeting the woman of my dreams.
(04:25):
I never could have imaginedbeing as happy with, you know,
with the wife that I havemarried 35 years, the kids, the
grandkids, led me to asuccessful PO position with a
fantastic company.
I'm making more money than I hadever imagined making.
Um, pretty good for a guy that,smoked half of Mexico while he
(04:47):
was in high school and didn'tpay attention and ended up in
the situation that I was.
So, I'm.
I got everything that I couldhave possibly dreamed of, and
it's because I've myrelationship with God.
So you would've thought Iwould've gotten up every day
thanking God and focused on howI could become closer to him,
correct.
(05:08):
Well, that would be wrong.
I did exactly the opposite.
I bought the Jaguars, um, I thenicest house, everything.
Yes, I was thanking God andthanking God on Sunday, but I
immediately got immersed intothe world of making money.
God, everything that had broughtme that happiness, that joy,
(05:29):
that, that path to my wife andthe family and the real things
that gave me joy, that I didn'tthink were possible.
I forgot about that.
And I started pursuing, like yousaid, it was money.
You know, God had given me allthis happiness, but now I get up
on Monday morning, every, notback then.
(05:50):
I would get up on Mondaymorning, what I used to call,
what I look back on is AtheistMonday.
'cause I'd completely forgetthat I was a follower of God.
I would completely forgeteverything that I had learned,
everything I had listened to ona Sunday, and now I'm locked in
on how do I, how do I.
Prosper and how do I succeed inthis world?
Okay, I've taken this territoryinto the top 20 in the company.
(06:13):
How do I do more than that?
That's what my focus was, andthe company I worked for was a
fantastic company, but the wayit's set up is their sales
organizations out in the statesand they're run, sometimes
they're run by, by people thatyou don't really have a lot of
respect for and a lot of waysof.
Of climbing up the ladder orplacing your lips on the dairy
(06:36):
air of somebody you don't reallyrespect, and I fell into all of
that whole thing.
Years go by and I am a stressedout mess believer.
Believe in Jesus.
Um, I'm a Christian, but I'm notreaping any of the benefits of
that.
I'm not really that happy.
(06:57):
I'm happy on the service becauseI've got the, I'm making the
money, I'm taking the trips andthe vacations and, um, but I
completely forgot how I gotthere because I had taken my
mind off of God and I had turnedto this, and little things seep
in, like, like not telling thetruth, you know, I think people
(07:19):
lying now.
You don't strike me as aprevaricator at all.
But I was a pretty good onegrowing up.
I could spin the field, butwhatever.
And I remember my wife one daysaying, I got off the phone and
she said, well, what did youjust tell him?
And I repeated it.
She said, well, that's notreally true, is it?
I said, no, but I'm trying toget this deal.
(07:41):
And she said, every time you dothat, you might as well drop to
your knees and go to God andjust say, you know, God, I don't
trust you for this.
I'm not trusting you when I'm inthis world.
I gotta go out here and I gottamake this.
And when, when things don't workout like it did earlier in my
life, I'll come back to you.
So that's one aspect.
It's like you said, you hit thenail on the head.
(08:03):
People get up, they'reChristians, they believe in God.
They, they, it's in theirhearts.
You couldn't change'em.
But Monday rolls around and boy,they're out there throwing
haymakers in the world and theworld's in influencing them and
they're trying to survive in theworld.
Instead of waking up and going,God is my peace.
God is my path.
God is my joy.
God is why I have everythinggood in my life, and that's what
(08:25):
I focus on.
And when I got to the pointwhere I went back to that,
everything changed and I gotback to the joy and and peace in
my life.
So, so yeah.
Anyway, look, I really, I reallyget that.
I really relate to that.
And um, I remember being, beforeI came to faith, like my career
had like really blossomed, youknow, and I was like.
(08:48):
In demand, you know, being kindof affirmed and, you know,
picked up by, you know, variouskind of like big figures in my
industry.
You know, like had like kind ofwork lying in from, you know,
loads of different directions.
Just like just people were justaware of my name and who I was
and.
All that, you know, beinginvited to like industry dinners
(09:11):
and, you know, all this sort ofstuff.
Right.
And, you know, I had a, youknow, a really nice car, you
know, a few watches, tiers, youknow, clothes, you know, like,
you know, more money thanreally, like, I kind of ever
imagined I'd have like, not richby any stretch to the
imagination, but like, you know,like for know, a bit like you
pat, you know, like kind ofhaving ended up who I ended up.
(09:31):
To be in that position was, youknow, it was, you know, it's
really quite something, right?
And um, and just beingmiserable, like empty, broken
inside, you know, and, um,stressed out that that's where I
was stressed out all the time.
No reason for a follower ofJesus that had, had no reason
(09:51):
for people like me and you oranybody that God had done so
much for to be all stressed outall the time.
And I think it's because, yeah.
We, we set God to the side oncewe start, once you get into the
world.
And I think people do that on adaily basis, don't you?
Yeah, absolutely.
I was listening to, um, a bookcalled The Relentless Tenderness
(10:13):
of Jesus, like as an audio bookby Brennan Manning recently, and
he spoke about Christians wholike give lip service, you know,
like.
You know, God's been kind to me.
You know, it's easy to say, oh,God's been really kind to me.
You know, like, you know, withmy, you know, I'm very blessed,
you know, you know, you know,referring to that, you know, the
(10:36):
comfort and, you know,prosperity.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, in a worldlysense, but like.
I mean, I, I, and I've donethis, like, I don't actually
mean it, you know?
'cause on a deeper level, Ithink I've done it all, you
know?
Um, and, uh, yeah, it's funny.
It sounds good.
(10:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Praise God, man.
Oh, God's been great.
God's god's been kind to me, youknow?
Yeah.
In America, that's a thing.
Oh, blessed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Blessed.
Yeah.
But I don't, but I don't reallymean it.
But you're exactly right.
People, we walk around and wesay that, and that's what I did.
I was a follower of God, stopreading the Bible, stop pursuing
God.
I stopped doing all those thingsand really, I think you might
(11:18):
have said it a minute ago, butyou, you're really worshiping
the world.
You know?
Yeah.
And what I was saying about,about, about telling the truth,
I'm getting in a businessmeeting and I'm fibbing about a,
you know, about something to tryto win a business deal.
I am completely showing acomplete lack of faith that is,
I have no faith in God if I'mlying to somebody about
something.
Yeah.
And it like, it's likeworshiping false idols, you
(11:39):
know, like you see it all theway through like the biblical
text.
Right.
Particularly in the OldTestament and, um.
Building idols out of silver andgold, you know, and like, you,
like, you know, Moses comes downthe mountain, like, kind of
tells pe you know, like thetells the, the people, you know,
it's like, like, you know, thefirst commandment is just like,
(12:00):
you know, worship got like meand me only, you know, God says
that.
And then, and then Moses kind ofturns his back and they start
making these idols, you know,like right.
And, you know, to some extent, Iguess that's humanity, right?
That's what we do.
But like, I know, you know, themodern idol is, you know, I know
that I can, you know, in amoment of kind of anxiety or
unhappiness, like sometimes Ican turn to my, you know, look
(12:21):
at my, my, the, my banking appon my phone, you know, to find
some easy comfort, like, yeah,yeah, I'm.
I must be doing all right.
Like look at, you know, it'swhat you said before, it's that
dopamine hit.
It's just like, look, oh, I gotthis success.
Oh, I got that show.
Oh look, I did this.
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly.
You're looking for all theseexternal, go ahead.
Yeah, so it's like, and the wayI, I think about those external
(12:44):
things is it's like smokingcrack, you know?
Like there is never enough.
It will feel good for a moment.
Yeah.
But there's a law of diminishingreturns in that.
Yeah.
'cause the amount of time itfeels good for goes down and
down and down and down, andthere's never enough.
You are always left wantingmore.
You know, like whether you, youknow, six o'clock in the
(13:05):
morning, you are gonna walkhalfway across town to get
another 20 pound style, whateveryou call it in your country, you
know, 20 pound stone.
Uh, you always want more.
There will never be enough.
It will never satisfy you, youknow?
And that, that's that externalstuff.
That's, that's how it operates.
You know?
Seductive though.
Yeah.
(13:25):
That, um.
I remember there was a placecalled Destin, Florida.
My wife, or we'd go down to theCaribbean and when, you know, we
were starting to have all thesuccess, having a lot of money,
taking all these trips.
Everywhere I went, I wouldalways be sitting there
thinking, Hey, we got a niceroom, but next time we're gonna
get the penthouse up there.
(13:45):
It was always something bigger.
So this was not fulfilling me.
It all sounded fun.
And, and you ended up doing alot of things'cause you thought
that's what you had to do.
I mean, I literally bought themost expensive car I could,
nicest house, I could, uh,always had to take the trip
because I'm immediately justliving in the world.
(14:07):
And that's what you'reworshiping and like you said, it
drains you.
Um, I dunno, if you recall ourfirst conversation, you know,
you were like, what?
Well, you gave up this verylucrative career.
What made you do that?
And I said, I got to the pointwhere it was so draining.
It was just God has a differentpurpose.
(14:27):
I'm not telling anybody outthere to do that whatsoever.
There are so many people thatare doing God's purpose in their
lives.
But in that particular instance,I had.
I had turned away from followingGod.
All the things that had given meall these blessings, all the
things that had given you allthat joy.
And without rehashing ourstories, both of all, both of us
(14:49):
would wake up every day and go,wow, you know, look at this.
How did we get to this point?
And then the phone call comes inand then you start going out and
living in.
And dealing in the world.
And then you start trying toplease the world and you start
trying to fit in.
And to me, it, I was justmiserable.
I had gotten back to beingmiserable, gotten back to being
(15:10):
happy.
I didn't turn to God for mypeace.
I didn't, pick up the Bible,read a Bible verse, stop and
realize and remember all thethings God had done for me.
Why am I out here stressing overwhether I'm gonna be the biggest
and the best at this and makingmore money when God's taking
care of me?
And.
I think the world's full ofpeople that do that.
I think there are Christians, Ithink there are followers of
(15:33):
Jesus.
I think there are people thatthat, that believe in God that
are listening to this, that doexactly that.
They get up on Monday mornings,well, I called it Aism Monday.
My wife never liked the term,but for me what it was was on
Sunday, I.
You know, I've listened to asermon, or I read the Bible, or
I've counted my blessings.
(15:53):
I got up on Monday and I waslike, boom, now I'm in the
world.
All of that was completelyforgotten, and now I'm out
there.
Now I'm stressed again.
And I think there are so manypeople that are doing that and
don't really realize that if youput your faith in, God, put your
focus on God.
You're gonna have peace, you'regonna have the joy, you're gonna
(16:13):
have the happiness, which is thepoint of what we're doing, in
this podcast.
That's where you're gonna findyour joy and happiness.
Do you know, uh, in a, in thewestern world, the leading
depression is more rampant inthe western world.
Than anywhere else on the globe.
Now you would think the peoplethat have the most, I mean in
(16:34):
America, a person in povertystill lives better than the
average person in a lot of thirdworld countries.
But depression is rampant inAmerica, it's rampant in
Britain, in the western worldwhere we have things that are
there are a lot easier, life isa lot easier.
That's from not, if you are aChristian, that is including
(16:55):
Christians, that is includingbelievers.
I know people that believed inGod that committed suicide.
Do you remember the episode wedid where I talked, you know,
where the fellow, that was goinginto recovery?
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
The man of your.
Message board football thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, well, by the way, he, uh, asof about a week ago, he's still
(17:18):
doing strong.
He still appreciates prayers.
Um, praise, praise God, man.
That's amazing.
It's, it's not easy.
Um, you know, but he's fightingthe battle.
But on that board, there's,there's all these people and
somebody posted a thing like,does anybody know anybody that
committed suicide?
And I was thinking, oh, well Ido, I know two or three people
(17:41):
and I'm thinking I'm gonna beone of the few people that
answer that in the positive.
And a couple days later I goback on the board.
That thing is pages and pageslong.
It's almost like everybody onthere noose has known somebody
that committed suicide that has,yeah, there's a stat, isn't
(18:01):
there?
One sec.
Um, gimme one sec.
Um.
Isn't it?
Is it true that the biggestpillar of men under 40 in the UK
(18:25):
is suicide?
And so have a little look atthis part.
Yeah.
There's strong statisticalevidence that suicide is one of
the top, if not the top causesof death among younger men in
the uk.
Um, yeah.
(18:46):
Yeah, that's, uh, yeah, I mean,it's frightening, isn't it?
And you're right.
Like, you know, like, I mean, inthe UK as far like how we define
poverty, I mean, as you know,I've spent time in South Africa,
right?
And, um, you know, as you comeout of the airport.
Right.
You go past the, like the, theshanty towns, you know, the
townships, which I don't thinkshanty towns is probably the
best term, but, um, yeah, likeyou see, you like that's, you
(19:09):
see like that's how people live.
I remember driving, um, off theHal Bay, which is like, um, this
kind of beautiful, like bit ofCape Town, Cape Town's like a
number.
It's actually lots of differentkind of, um, districts or
actually like little towns thatare sort of.
Somewhat linked together, butnot always.
(19:31):
Right.
You know, quite often there'slike a big chunk of kind of
greenery in between them andheart bays like the, the white
people they're living, you know,they live very well.
You know, it's, it's a, it's anaffluent area.
Right.
And, um, I drove past thiscollection of shacks, like so
ramshackle and run down.
(19:52):
Yeah.
And I literally thought I was inan Uber.
I thought, no one, no one'sliving there, that must be
abandoned.
You know?
And then I saw the clothes line,you know, with freshly, you
know, obviously clothes that hadobviously been put on there
that, that day, you know, and I,I saw men coming out there, you
(20:12):
know, off to, you know, what Isaw a lot of men doing over
there was scavenging through,through.
Through the white people'srubbish, you know, not, you
know, I'm not, I'm not makingthis about race, but that is
what I observed.
You know what I mean?
And, um, I, we have so much inthe west and yet we're so
unhappy.
And that is just such a, apowerful, um, like example or
(20:35):
such a testament to.
It is that we're talking about,you know, the stuff of the
world, and it's like, look likethe, the devil took Jesus up,
didn't he?
Took him up, you know, took himup high, showed him all this,
you know, the, all, you know,all the stuff of the world.
You know, you, you can have allof this if you just bow down and
worship me, you know?
And, uh.
(20:57):
That I get, you know, that'swhat we're talking about, right?
Because obviously we've got theflesh right, which kinda hungers
for those things.
But then, but yeah, we've gotthe enemy as well.
You know, who sells us theseideas, you know, there, you
know, tells us this is what weneed to be.
Okay.
And there isn't enough of thatstuff there on and off s or
commas on your bank balance orthere aren't online, you know,
(21:17):
to make me feel like intent beto experience peace really, you
know?
Um, you know, Jesus talks aswell, doesn't, he talks about
the peace that makes no sense.
Know, a peace that surpasses allunderstanding.
You know, like the peace that Igive you is not like, is not
like what the world can offeryou, you know?
(21:39):
And that's it.
I literally, with without Jesusand focusing on I'm, I'm lost.
I, the moment I start, you startdrifting away and letting things
affect you.
I bet you in those shanty towns,there's probably not a high
suicide rate.
People are just trying tosurvive.
And then the more that we have,and like I said, even Christians
are probably are in that numberof committing suicide.
(22:01):
Uh.
H suffering through depression.
When we have everything at ourfingertips to give us the peace,
to give us the joy.
I mean, you and I know it.
You know, you and I have hadthat conversation.
We know Jesus is real.
We know the peace.
We've gotten that.
But if you, we've gotten thejoy, we've gotten the peace from
following Christ, but the momentyou turn your mind off.
(22:26):
To something else is when youstart getting the inner torment
and you start getting away.
And so what do you think aresome ideas just for the average
person, the average follower ofJesus?
Obviously if you don't knowJesus, um.
Richard and I would tell youthere's your solution, but there
are so many people that areChristians that are following
(22:47):
God, that, that still findthemselves fighting that battle
in the world.
And they're not getting the joy,they're not getting the peace,
they're not getting thehappiness.
It's gotten fairly easy to me.
I just know when external forcesare starting to talk to me, that
I just turn and go, okay.
I just think of everything God'sdone for me.
I start talking to God.
'cause when I'm talking to God,Satan can't talk to me.
(23:10):
So what, uh, do you have anyideas?
On how you focus on God and youfocus on Jesus.
I'm not talking about youwalking around with your Bible
in your hand at every moment,but living that life where
you're just, you're living withyour father'cause that's what he
is God.
Mm-hmm.
You're just communicating and itdoesn't leave your mind.
Any thoughts or ideas there?
(23:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely man.
And um, and this is stuff I'vebeen thinking about personally
recently.
'cause I, I've just, as youknow, I've just moved house and,
you know, it's been incrediblybusy month.
Right.
And, and, and, and my practice,you know, my, my, uh, my, my
discipline.
The picture for your back wallof me is on the way.
I'm just waiting.
Yes.
I'm, I'm, I'm waiting to get itframed that be Yeah.
(23:54):
As, as, yeah.
We'll, I'm just, I, I think Imissed, I missed, I missed the
FedEx man.
I think Pat, but, um, I want itthere before the wedding.
I just, you know, definitelywe'll probably have it up at the
wedding on my, that's, I gonnaeat, that's what I was thinking
on an easel.
Yeah.
If I can't get the passportworked out, I'd like, you know
what I mean?
(24:15):
Just right there in a chair, puta little small tux around it.
Um, yeah, absolutely.
Good job.
No, no, you're going, you'regoing through all of this.
Yeah, I'm going through all ofthis.
My practice has slipped.
Right.
Am I praying as much as I wasnot, am I, am I reading my Bible
as much?
No.
You know, like, am I talking toother believers as much as No.
Right.
And so I was thinking about thisthis afternoon, right?
And it's like, you know, like,but there's a number of things I
(24:38):
say to this, right?
But it's like, it's arelationship, you know?
So it's like if I'm in a, youknow, like if I'm in a
relationship with someone,right?
And I text them now and again,and they, you know.
I might, but I might not.
Yeah.
I'm too busy to call them.
Yeah.
And like if they text me, Imight get back to them, but I
(24:59):
might not, you know, like, youknow, like that kind of, you
know, if I, if I'm trying tobuild a relationship with
someone and that's how I behave,like that relationship is not
going anywhere.
Yeah.
Like, you know, so it's likehaving that relationship.
So it's like, okay, like how,how much am I doing?
To like to, to connect with, tobe close to him, to be, you
(25:23):
know, in that kind ofconversation, in that contact
with Jesus, like to actuallylike to, to rest in his love.
Right?
And, um.
I was on a group last nightonline and we were talking about
this.
It's like, it's not about works,you know, it's about faith.
We're justified through faith,like you know that, you know
through.
Some are in the process ofcoming to believe, you know, and
(25:45):
believing that Jesus was thesons of God.
Maid man walked among us, diedon the cross for us.
Sins rose again three dayslater.
To sit at the right hand of thefather, you know?
You know, if you believe that inyour heart and confess that with
your mouth, you are a Christian,right?
Like that's it.
You're a follower of JesusChrist and you are justified
through faith, you know, andthat grace is irrevocable and
like, you know, like you are allencompassing, right?
(26:07):
But it's not about works.
It's about that faith.
But that doesn't mean you don'thave to do some work.
You know what I mean?
Right, right.
Because it's a relat'cause it'sa relationship, you know, like
we're justified through faith,but then we gotta do, do some
stuff and that, you know, myfriend was speaking on this
Believers in Recovery or ourmeeting last night, and he was
like, you know, sometimes we canbe guilty of life just resting
in our salvation.
(26:28):
You know, we experience oursalvation and we just lie down,
kick our shoes off, you know,and just kind of.
Quarter along, putter along, youknow?
And, um, so it's like, what am Idoing?
What am I doing to have thatrelationship?
What am I doing to, um, to helpothers come to him?
You know, like, just like what,you know, and it, you know, we
(26:49):
all have different gifts anddifferent anointings.
You know, some people are greatevangelists, some people are,
you know, gifted in other ways.
But so what am I doing?
What am I doing for thatrelationship?
What am I doing to, in an effortto show my gratitude?
For this, immense, for this giftI've been given.
Like, that's indescribable, youknow?
(27:09):
And the other thing I just, Imean, I just, I guess, um, I
wanted to just respond reallyPat to like what you said about,
you know, we know what thesolution is.
Yeah.
And it's, it's like we know whatthe solution is, right?
That's like, I don't thinkabout, you know, it's not a
thought, you know, it's not abelief, you know what I mean?
It's, you know, it's like, Iknow, you know, because I've
(27:31):
experienced it.
Because I felt him reaching.
And touch me and heal things.
Nothing else had reached intouch and healed.
You know what I mean?
So it's like, I know, you know,but like to get to that point,
like for me, I didn't come inand I didn't have a supernatural
experience at the all, you know,like for me, I turned up right
in a place of desperation and Ikept turning up, you know, like
(27:54):
I kept reading the Bible evenwhen it made no sense to me.
You know?
I kept praying, I kept worship,you know, I kept, I kept turning
up, you know, church recoverymeeting, like Christian recovery
meetings.
It was like, for me, it's likethe darkness got got chipped off
bit by bit and then it hit meand it's somewhere in that
experience like that was wherenot all of a sudden I knew.
(28:17):
So I don't, you know, I don't, Idon't, I don't believe in God.
You know what I mean?
Like I know he's real.
You know what I mean?
It's not a belief.
It's like I just know, you know?
So I would encourage anyonethat's trying to.
You know, it's like struggling.
Like if you, like, if you'returning up and it still doesn't
make any sense and you feel likeit's not working and you're not
feeling anything and dah, dah,dah, dah, dah, like, that was
me.
(28:38):
But for a while, you know what Imean?
But there was enough.
There was just, there wasenough.
There was something that broughtme back, you know, glimmer.
That was all it was at first,for a while.
It was just a little glimmer oflight and then it, you know, and
that's how it happened.
For me, that was the same withmyself.
I, I didn't have that moment.
(28:58):
At the altar of the moment whenI prayed the Prayer of Salvation
that everything changed for me.
Everything did on the inside.
The Holy Spirit gets inside ofyou.
But yeah, well I was, that's agood analogy.
It was a chisel and a chisel.
I read the Bible at.
It didn't make any sense.
If you recall, in my book, Isaid, I try, started trying to
read the Bible and I, and Icouldn't get through what I
(29:20):
called the tudes, which was thebeginning.
I was just like, I'm like, okay,I'm four pages in and, and you
know, and we're ab Shaf and Ray.
I'm just like, okay.
And so I've just kinda readingalong now, uh.
I can pick the Bible up.
Actually, when I read it now, Iread it in more of a historical.
(29:41):
The first time I read the Bible,I read it through, and you know
why I read it.
'cause I was gonna get favor.
See, I was like, if I read thiswhole Bible through, then God
will certainly, uh, bless me andgive me my breakthrough.
So I read the whole thing.
I couldn't remember anything init.
All, all I was doing chapterdown, okay.
On to, I'm onto this great NewTestament.
Let me roll through this.
(30:02):
Moved right on through it.
I, I mean, I, I might as wellbeen reading the comic book.
Wasn't paying attention at all.
Now.
Inspired by you by the way.
Um, because of some of ourprivate conversations on things
you said when you turned to theBible.
I just started reading in ahistorical context and I started
reading into Matthew and I thinkwe had that conversation.
(30:22):
I did not know it was, it was 14generations.
'cause I'm a big history fan.
I would skip school and go readmy history book out, by the
lake.
Uh, but it was 14 years fromAbraham.
To David, 14 years from David tothe Jews being taken into
captivity and then 14 years toJesus.
(30:43):
So it, you know, it's kind ofunique.
There was a 14, 14, 14, and Ialso was surprised to find out
as we discussed that Solomon wasactually the.
Child of Bathsheba and David.
Mm-hmm.
The of their adulterous affair.
So it was, but now I read it andI get something out of it.
(31:06):
I'm reading it like, let me readthis to, we do so much when
you're I don't want.
Use the word mature, immature,Christian.
But when you're first starting,you are a little kind of, I'm
doing things to try to garnerfavor.
When I first really started, Imean, I'm just being honest.
I go to God now, you know, I'mlike, you know my motivations.
You know who I am, you know, theseedy side of me.
(31:27):
You know the good side of me.
That all comes from you.
I'm just here trying toaccomplish what you want me to
accomplish.
But when I read now I'mlearning.
Things are jumping out at methat I just didn't understand
and one of the biggest thingsthat I've noticed that when I'm
reading the Bible or I'm payingattention to God, remember I
told you about the prayerpeople, you know, I had somebody
(31:48):
tell me like, I feel guilty whenI'm praying.
Sometimes I fall asleep.
And I said, well, don't feelguilty because Jesus saying rest
in him.
Once you're talking to God,you're talking to Jesus.
All those fears kind of go away.
This is kind of an overlay ofwhat we're talking about.
If you're, when I would bestressed and I start thinking
about trying to solve a problemat two 15 in the morning, laying
(32:09):
in the bed, and you're not gonnasolve it.
All you're gonna do is justtorture yourself.
But if I'm in turn talking toGod, thanking him, I slip off, I
go to sleep.
Uh.
And that wisdom can somehow, youknow, seep into my head.
But the point is, I am talkingto God, I'm talking to my
father, and he's just like yourreal father.
He wants you to come talk tohim.
(32:29):
You don't have to come in withall these big words and
everything like that.
It's just like going to your dadgoing, look, I'm stressed about
this, or I got this going on.
Or you're being, you're beinggrateful, but if you're talking
to God, you're talking to Jesus.
Satan can't talk to you.
And as we talked about in thespiritual warfare, which we
could talk about in every singleepisode, because it really is
spiritual warfare.
When we get up and we started,when you and I started following
(32:52):
God and the money and everythingstarted coming in, Satan starts
attacking, okay, well he'sblessed them.
If I can get them, get theirmind off of this and get them
through, uh, get them to be thatanger or be anxious about
continuing to have this successand things.
I have just found that if youimmerse yourself.
In, if you immerse yourself inthe word of God, I'm not talking
(33:15):
about just walking aroundcarrying your Bible, but if
you're reading, if you'relistening, if you're thinking
about something, uh, watching asermon of, with a pastor reading
a book, just constantly beputting it in your mind.
Then the world and the world isSatan.
'cause who, you know.
You made a good point.
Satan took Jesus up on the hill,said, I'll give you this.
(33:36):
What does that mean?
If he says, I'll give you this,that means he owns it.
And so what do we do?
We go out here and we try tosurvive in, in this world when
we should be focusing on Jesus.
I have this, what I call the onething principle.
If I'm reading a book or readinga chapter, or if I'm reading a
chapter in the Bible.
One thing, don't try to soak itall in, just take one thing from
(33:59):
it.
Mm-hmm.
And then you're constantly kindof dwelling on, Hey, I heard a
pastor, I heard a great sermon,this one thing, and then just
kind of remember that.
And then it just builds this,uh, this mansion of goodness in
your head where the other stuffcan't come in.
And just remember what you focuson determines how you feel and
(34:19):
determines what you feel.
It's just that simple.
If you're focusing on God,you're focusing on Jesus, you're
gonna be more positive, you'regonna be happy.
You're going to have peace inyour mind.
You might be dealing with astressful situation, but if
you're dealing with it under theguise of, God has seen me
through everything else in mylife, he's gonna see me through
this.
If it's a stressful situation,whatever it is, if you focus on
(34:42):
God.
Immerse yourself in the goodnessof God, in the goodness of his
blessings, the goodness of hisgrace, and what he's done for
you.
That's what takes it away fromme, and it's just, it's what you
focus on is gonna determine howyou feel.
Remember.
You gotta go to God.
He's not yelling at you.
He's not yelling at you to getaway from the cliff.
Satan's telling you to go to thecliff, jump off the cliff, and
(35:05):
here's 15 reasons why you jumpoff the cliff.
That's why you have actualChristians that have committed
suicide and that live withdepressions and are struggling
on a daily basis.
But if you consciously.
I'm talking to God, I do it justin, I don't have to stop and
pull over on the side of theroad.
I'm like, all right, God.
All right.
I'm literally ready to punchthis woman in the face at the
gas station.
You know, I just constantly havea running conversation, just
(35:26):
like I would my very own father.
'cause he is, is our very ownfather.
Um, anyway, you have any, uh,closing thoughts on that?
Um, well, let me have a littlethink about what else is there
to say on this.
I mean, we've definitely focusedon that sort of external.
Validation and gratification, Iguess.
(35:49):
Uh, the thing, I was justlooking through the Bible as you
were talking, you know, and I, Ithink just to think to what you
were talking about, Matthewfour, four, you know, Jesus
answered.
This is in response to thedevil.
You know, it is written, manshall not live on bread or line,
but on every word that comesfrom the mouth of God.
(36:10):
And, uh, and you know what, Ithink what, what that, the point
that that makes to me, man,shall not live on bread alone.
It doesn't say, man shall notlive on bread, you know?
We gotta be, we gotta be in theworld.
Like there are some things thatwe need, right?
Like, you know, I need to beable to pay my electricity bill.
You know, I need to be able tokeep a roof over my head.
(36:31):
You know, like, so we kind ofhave to kind of be in the world,
but it's about the way that weattach to it.
You know?
It's what do we worship?
You know, do I worship thethings of the world or do I
worship him?
You know?
And that's the, I guess thatspeaks to our title, right?
It's like living in the world asa Christian, you know?
Um, yeah, so it's like, yeah,like we, the word of God is what
(36:54):
feeds us and we need to findways to be in the world and
engage in worldly things, butwithout that becoming the full
side, you know, without thatbecoming to the order that we
worship us.
I think that's the, that's,that's the trick, man.
And it's, you know, I don't knowabout you Pat, but it's an
(37:15):
ongoing battle for me.
You know, it's a, see, it's aseesaw for me, you know, but I
actually, you know, I just wannashare as well, like for the
anyone listening, it's like, youknow, I certainly don't stand on
a pedestal of like spiritual,like perfection or anything
close to, right.
It's like this is a battle forme, like I've been in it this
month.
You know, like I'm in it thismonth.
(37:36):
You know, there's everyth, youknow, moving house.
It's busy.
I'm too busy for this.
I'm too busy to commune withhim.
Too busy.
You know, I haven't got time toinvest in that'cause I've got
all these things to do.
I need to go to the gym.
I haven't been to the gym forthree days.
I've got an hour spare.
What am I gonna do?
I'm gonna go to the gym.
What am I worshiping?
My biceps?
You know what I mean?
And actually this, thisconversation has really.
(37:58):
Just really reignited that like,you know, it's a timely reminder
for me.
So if, you know, yeah, there arepeople listening, I think that
hopefully we can kind of bringto faith, you know, through
listening to this.
But also if you're in faith andyou struggle with this, like, me
too brother, you know, you'renot alone i's doing it, but you
can by focusing on one quickthing.
(38:21):
The other day I was fixing a$8,uh, flapper, I mean an$8 fill.
Uh, valve in my toilet, uh,because it was running a little
too much.
It's amazing.
With YouTube now I've becomedangerous fixing things around
the house.
I couldn't get the nut off thebottom of the toilet, and I'd
read the reviews where ourgrandmother said it took her
(38:42):
five minutes, but I didn't havethe tool to get the nut off the
bottom.
And my wife comes home.
I, my language, when my, when Imet my wife, I had the language
on my hard drive.
She was like, well, you were inthe military, weren't you?
I said, I was.
She said, well, why?
How?
I said, how, how'd you know?
She said, because I've neverheard anybody.
She used that filthy, you know,a mouth and, and I cleaned all
(39:06):
that up.
So, you know, but my wife isalways throughout the years, you
know, when something, when Idropped a hammer on my toe, she
would look at me and give methe, uh, you know, you need to
talk to Jesus about yourlanguage.
And, um, so I would get thepoint.
But anyway, I'm in this bathroomand I'm letting out just, ah,
you know, every time I'mdropping the wrench and I'm just
ready to choke somebody becauseI can't get an$8 fill valve.
(39:30):
This thought and, and I came andso that's life.
That is just life to whensomeone gets up and, and they've
listened to us or they've hadthis conversation, they've
listened to their pastor andthey get up on Monday or their
Tuesday and this happens, or thespouse comes in, or the boss or
whatever's going on, or the carmesses up.
You go zero to a hundred andyour're back in this world and
you're stressed as opposed togoing, I'm living with God.
(39:53):
I have a father I can text.
I mean, literally I can almostjust.
Text.
He's given me a whole blueprinton how to live that's in the
Bible.
Um, and he's just right there.
Okay, wait a minute, this is mypeace.
Calm down.
Let me put my faith.
Uh, lemme put my focus, uh, backon Jesus and everything he's
done for me.
No, you're not gonna floataround.
(40:13):
Neither one of us do, which iswhat we just illustrated.
Um.
But that has given me greatpeace in my life.
I start going off, but I comeback and I come back and I come
back and what I've done, whatI've learned, just focus on God,
focus on Jesus.
And you don't have to walkaround singing hymns all the
time, but just make it cognizantand it's what you put in your
(40:33):
mind too.
In this world these days, thestuff people are seeing on, you
know what you got, if you cut ontv, if you cut on the news and
all the people that are ready topunch everybody in the face and
stuff.
But if you're filling your mindwith all of that.
You know, my wife has this thinglike, you cut on the news or
whatever you're gettingirritated or angry or you're
mad.
And look what somebody said on,she'll walk by and grab the
(40:55):
control and go, we are turningto Jesus.
And it'll be a pastor, uh, on astation that's just given a
sermon.
And five minutes later, 10minutes later, not only has the
blood pressure gone down, butnow you're encouraged.
You just learned something.
I just heard the word of God.
I just heard God talking andnow.
I've got joy now.
My peace and everything is backsimply'cause I'm focusing on God
(41:18):
and focusing on Jesus.
But I think you hit the nail onthe head for everybody out
there.
It's a struggle, but it's astruggle that Jesus won.
He won the struggle, he won thebattle, and we should live in
the victory of it.
So, uh, we'll leave it there.
Uh, Richard, you have somethingI know that you, uh, have to do.
You are a multitasker.
Well, you're not, if your worldrenowned, which you are.
(41:41):
World renowned in small, it'ssmall areas, but yeah.
Thanks Pat.
Yeah, you can't just close thecomputer like me and go lay, lay
in the bed and start thinking upgoofy stuff to say it, to say it
the next show.
So, so go out and make an impactin people's lives and, uh, and
everyone else out there.
So good to see you, rich.
And once you too, man.
God bless everybody.
(42:02):
Yep.
God bless everybody out there.
And keep your mind on God.
Keep your mind on your Father.
He's your father.
Keep your mind on Jesus andyou'll see a big difference in
your life, and you'll fulfillhis purpose and everybody has
it.
It's not just to go out andevangelize.
You'd be amazed at everybodythat's listening, the impact
that you're making on people'slives.
If you're following Jesus andyou're walking in the.
(42:25):
The path he wants you to walk.
So, alright, we'll see you nexttime and take care, rich.
Do you later, pat.
God bless you man.
and welcome to the two UnlikelyChristians podcast.
I'm comedian Pat McCool, and nowacross the Atlantic Ocean to
world renowned psychotherapistand addiction specialist,
Richard Terrell.
Thank you, pat.
Not just yet, you know, butworking, working, working on it.
World renowned.
(00:41):
Richard, where am I sitting?
Mississippi, am I admirer ofyours or do I do I do.
Do I?
Do I pay attention to your work?
Believe you did that.
Yes.
That'd make you world renowned.
Nice.
Transatlantic, at least.
Japan Atlantic and we have a,uh, we have a lot of followers
(01:03):
in America.
So your world renowned with themtoo.
Awesome.
And actually, and I have heardfeedback that you have, uh, some
of your information has made adifference in, in people's
lives.
And, uh, and we've actuallyadded a few countries too.
Uh, Italy checked in with us.
I guess they, uh, they heardabout my grandfather ordering a
bologna sandwich in an Italianrestaurant and ordering a milk
(01:25):
of magnesia from my grandmother.
And thought, we'll give theseguys a listen.
So yeah.
Word master spread part.
It crossed.
Yeah.
Um.
Got down in the boot.
Okay.
Well, I know you've had a busyday, today.
My week is just now startingoff.
So let's get to our topic todaythat what we have wanted to talk
to, and it is a very timely,topic today.
(01:48):
We wanna talk about followingJesus while living in the world,
and that has several different,tracks in my mind.
But let's start with yourthoughts on this.
Yeah, thanks Pat.
Like for me.
Like you say, there's different,um, connotations to this.
Um, one is, so for me, the, theprimary one that I had to work
(02:13):
on, continue to have to work on,is not being seduced by the
shiny things that the worldoffers.
Like the comforts, thepleasures, you know, the
external validations, you know,things that like I, I really
pursued before as a believer.
And, and fall into pursuing now,you know, money, you know,
(02:33):
acclaim, you know, lot of stuff,things, you know, like watches,
you know, a nice car, you know,not like designer clothes and
all that stuff.
Yeah.
And recognizing that actuallylike my, you know, who I am and
in Christ is not in any waybased on those things, you know,
that those things aretransitory.
(02:55):
Yeah.
They don't last, you know, wedon't store up treasures on
earth.
Yeah.
Where the vermin can eat themand they become corroded
actually, where, you know, welive here knowing that this
isn't our home.
That, you know, we havesomewhere else to go, that we
serve a higher purpose, and thatthat stuff is not, you know,
that's like, that stuff's notour God.
(03:16):
So there's, that's for me,that's the, the one that's
really required some attentionand some work, you know, since
becoming a, a believer andsometimes it's really, I feel
really kind of cleansed aroundthat stuff.
I feel like the spirit has likewashed a lot of that stuff, that
stuff out of me, you know?
And other times not so much, youknow?
(03:40):
Yes, I, the, I'm glad you saidthat'cause that's the first
aspect of what I was thinkingbecause I am the poster child
for that because going backwhen, you know, and if you read
my book, you know, the subtitlewas One Man's Walk Towards God,
which started in a jail cell,uh, where I'm sitting there,
made a complete mess of myentire life.
(04:02):
Uh, led a miserable, unhappylife all the way up to that
point.
And then I turn and I starthaving this conversation with
God.
I start this walk towards God.
I haven't become a true followerof Jesus, but I turn towards
God.
Things start changing in mylife.
Uh, and following God led to memeeting the woman of my dreams.
(04:25):
I never could have imaginedbeing as happy with, you know,
with the wife that I havemarried 35 years, the kids, the
grandkids, led me to asuccessful PO position with a
fantastic company.
I'm making more money than I hadever imagined making.
Um, pretty good for a guy that,smoked half of Mexico while he
(04:47):
was in high school and didn'tpay attention and ended up in
the situation that I was.
So, I'm.
I got everything that I couldhave possibly dreamed of, and
it's because I've myrelationship with God.
So you would've thought Iwould've gotten up every day
thanking God and focused on howI could become closer to him,
correct.
(05:08):
Well, that would be wrong.
I did exactly the opposite.
I bought the Jaguars, um, I thenicest house, everything.
Yes, I was thanking God andthanking God on Sunday, but I
immediately got immersed intothe world of making money.
God, everything that had broughtme that happiness, that joy,
(05:29):
that, that path to my wife andthe family and the real things
that gave me joy, that I didn'tthink were possible.
I forgot about that.
And I started pursuing, like yousaid, it was money.
You know, God had given me allthis happiness, but now I get up
on Monday morning, every, notback then.
(05:50):
I would get up on Mondaymorning, what I used to call,
what I look back on is AtheistMonday.
'cause I'd completely forgetthat I was a follower of God.
I would completely forgeteverything that I had learned,
everything I had listened to ona Sunday, and now I'm locked in
on how do I, how do I.
Prosper and how do I succeed inthis world?
Okay, I've taken this territoryinto the top 20 in the company.
(06:13):
How do I do more than that?
That's what my focus was, andthe company I worked for was a
fantastic company, but the wayit's set up is their sales
organizations out in the statesand they're run, sometimes
they're run by, by people thatyou don't really have a lot of
respect for and a lot of waysof.
Of climbing up the ladder orplacing your lips on the dairy
(06:36):
air of somebody you don't reallyrespect, and I fell into all of
that whole thing.
Years go by and I am a stressedout mess believer.
Believe in Jesus.
Um, I'm a Christian, but I'm notreaping any of the benefits of
that.
I'm not really that happy.
(06:57):
I'm happy on the service becauseI've got the, I'm making the
money, I'm taking the trips andthe vacations and, um, but I
completely forgot how I gotthere because I had taken my
mind off of God and I had turnedto this, and little things seep
in, like, like not telling thetruth, you know, I think people
(07:19):
lying now.
You don't strike me as aprevaricator at all.
But I was a pretty good onegrowing up.
I could spin the field, butwhatever.
And I remember my wife one daysaying, I got off the phone and
she said, well, what did youjust tell him?
And I repeated it.
She said, well, that's notreally true, is it?
I said, no, but I'm trying toget this deal.
(07:41):
And she said, every time you dothat, you might as well drop to
your knees and go to God andjust say, you know, God, I don't
trust you for this.
I'm not trusting you when I'm inthis world.
I gotta go out here and I gottamake this.
And when, when things don't workout like it did earlier in my
life, I'll come back to you.
So that's one aspect.
It's like you said, you hit thenail on the head.
(08:03):
People get up, they'reChristians, they believe in God.
They, they, it's in theirhearts.
You couldn't change'em.
But Monday rolls around and boy,they're out there throwing
haymakers in the world and theworld's in influencing them and
they're trying to survive in theworld.
Instead of waking up and going,God is my peace.
God is my path.
God is my joy.
God is why I have everythinggood in my life, and that's what
(08:25):
I focus on.
And when I got to the pointwhere I went back to that,
everything changed and I gotback to the joy and and peace in
my life.
So, so yeah.
Anyway, look, I really, I reallyget that.
I really relate to that.
And um, I remember being, beforeI came to faith, like my career
had like really blossomed, youknow, and I was like.
(08:48):
In demand, you know, being kindof affirmed and, you know,
picked up by, you know, variouskind of like big figures in my
industry.
You know, like had like kind ofwork lying in from, you know,
loads of different directions.
Just like just people were justaware of my name and who I was
and.
All that, you know, beinginvited to like industry dinners
(09:11):
and, you know, all this sort ofstuff.
Right.
And, you know, I had a, youknow, a really nice car, you
know, a few watches, tiers, youknow, clothes, you know, like,
you know, more money thanreally, like, I kind of ever
imagined I'd have like, not richby any stretch to the
imagination, but like, you know,like for know, a bit like you
pat, you know, like kind ofhaving ended up who I ended up.
(09:31):
To be in that position was, youknow, it was, you know, it's
really quite something, right?
And um, and just beingmiserable, like empty, broken
inside, you know, and, um,stressed out that that's where I
was stressed out all the time.
No reason for a follower ofJesus that had, had no reason
(09:51):
for people like me and you oranybody that God had done so
much for to be all stressed outall the time.
And I think it's because, yeah.
We, we set God to the side oncewe start, once you get into the
world.
And I think people do that on adaily basis, don't you?
Yeah, absolutely.
I was listening to, um, a bookcalled The Relentless Tenderness
(10:13):
of Jesus, like as an audio bookby Brennan Manning recently, and
he spoke about Christians wholike give lip service, you know,
like.
You know, God's been kind to me.
You know, it's easy to say, oh,God's been really kind to me.
You know, like, you know, withmy, you know, I'm very blessed,
you know, you know, you know,referring to that, you know, the
(10:36):
comfort and, you know,prosperity.
Yeah.
And, um, you know, in a worldlysense, but like.
I mean, I, I, and I've donethis, like, I don't actually
mean it, you know?
'cause on a deeper level, Ithink I've done it all, you
know?
Um, and, uh, yeah, it's funny.
It sounds good.
(10:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Praise God, man.
Oh, God's been great.
God's god's been kind to me, youknow?
Yeah.
In America, that's a thing.
Oh, blessed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Blessed.
Yeah.
But I don't, but I don't reallymean it.
But you're exactly right.
People, we walk around and wesay that, and that's what I did.
I was a follower of God, stopreading the Bible, stop pursuing
God.
I stopped doing all those thingsand really, I think you might
(11:18):
have said it a minute ago, butyou, you're really worshiping
the world.
You know?
Yeah.
And what I was saying about,about, about telling the truth,
I'm getting in a businessmeeting and I'm fibbing about a,
you know, about something to tryto win a business deal.
I am completely showing acomplete lack of faith that is,
I have no faith in God if I'mlying to somebody about
something.
Yeah.
And it like, it's likeworshiping false idols, you
(11:39):
know, like you see it all theway through like the biblical
text.
Right.
Particularly in the OldTestament and, um.
Building idols out of silver andgold, you know, and like, you,
like, you know, Moses comes downthe mountain, like, kind of
tells pe you know, like thetells the, the people, you know,
it's like, like, you know, thefirst commandment is just like,
(12:00):
you know, worship got like meand me only, you know, God says
that.
And then, and then Moses kind ofturns his back and they start
making these idols, you know,like right.
And, you know, to some extent, Iguess that's humanity, right?
That's what we do.
But like, I know, you know, themodern idol is, you know, I know
that I can, you know, in amoment of kind of anxiety or
unhappiness, like sometimes Ican turn to my, you know, look
(12:21):
at my, my, the, my banking appon my phone, you know, to find
some easy comfort, like, yeah,yeah, I'm.
I must be doing all right.
Like look at, you know, it'swhat you said before, it's that
dopamine hit.
It's just like, look, oh, I gotthis success.
Oh, I got that show.
Oh look, I did this.
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly.
You're looking for all theseexternal, go ahead.
Yeah, so it's like, and the wayI, I think about those external
(12:44):
things is it's like smokingcrack, you know?
Like there is never enough.
It will feel good for a moment.
Yeah.
But there's a law of diminishingreturns in that.
Yeah.
'cause the amount of time itfeels good for goes down and
down and down and down, andthere's never enough.
You are always left wantingmore.
You know, like whether you, youknow, six o'clock in the
(13:05):
morning, you are gonna walkhalfway across town to get
another 20 pound style, whateveryou call it in your country, you
know, 20 pound stone.
Uh, you always want more.
There will never be enough.
It will never satisfy you, youknow?
And that, that's that externalstuff.
That's, that's how it operates.
You know?
Seductive though.
Yeah.
(13:25):
That, um.
I remember there was a placecalled Destin, Florida.
My wife, or we'd go down to theCaribbean and when, you know, we
were starting to have all thesuccess, having a lot of money,
taking all these trips.
Everywhere I went, I wouldalways be sitting there
thinking, Hey, we got a niceroom, but next time we're gonna
get the penthouse up there.
(13:45):
It was always something bigger.
So this was not fulfilling me.
It all sounded fun.
And, and you ended up doing alot of things'cause you thought
that's what you had to do.
I mean, I literally bought themost expensive car I could,
nicest house, I could, uh,always had to take the trip
because I'm immediately justliving in the world.
(14:07):
And that's what you'reworshiping and like you said, it
drains you.
Um, I dunno, if you recall ourfirst conversation, you know,
you were like, what?
Well, you gave up this verylucrative career.
What made you do that?
And I said, I got to the pointwhere it was so draining.
It was just God has a differentpurpose.
(14:27):
I'm not telling anybody outthere to do that whatsoever.
There are so many people thatare doing God's purpose in their
lives.
But in that particular instance,I had.
I had turned away from followingGod.
All the things that had given meall these blessings, all the
things that had given you allthat joy.
And without rehashing ourstories, both of all, both of us
(14:49):
would wake up every day and go,wow, you know, look at this.
How did we get to this point?
And then the phone call comes inand then you start going out and
living in.
And dealing in the world.
And then you start trying toplease the world and you start
trying to fit in.
And to me, it, I was justmiserable.
I had gotten back to beingmiserable, gotten back to being
(15:10):
happy.
I didn't turn to God for mypeace.
I didn't, pick up the Bible,read a Bible verse, stop and
realize and remember all thethings God had done for me.
Why am I out here stressing overwhether I'm gonna be the biggest
and the best at this and makingmore money when God's taking
care of me?
And.
I think the world's full ofpeople that do that.
I think there are Christians, Ithink there are followers of
(15:33):
Jesus.
I think there are people thatthat, that believe in God that
are listening to this, that doexactly that.
They get up on Monday mornings,well, I called it Aism Monday.
My wife never liked the term,but for me what it was was on
Sunday, I.
You know, I've listened to asermon, or I read the Bible, or
I've counted my blessings.
(15:53):
I got up on Monday and I waslike, boom, now I'm in the
world.
All of that was completelyforgotten, and now I'm out
there.
Now I'm stressed again.
And I think there are so manypeople that are doing that and
don't really realize that if youput your faith in, God, put your
focus on God.
You're gonna have peace, you'regonna have the joy, you're gonna
(16:13):
have the happiness, which is thepoint of what we're doing, in
this podcast.
That's where you're gonna findyour joy and happiness.
Do you know, uh, in a, in thewestern world, the leading
depression is more rampant inthe western world.
Than anywhere else on the globe.
Now you would think the peoplethat have the most, I mean in
(16:34):
America, a person in povertystill lives better than the
average person in a lot of thirdworld countries.
But depression is rampant inAmerica, it's rampant in
Britain, in the western worldwhere we have things that are
there are a lot easier, life isa lot easier.
That's from not, if you are aChristian, that is including
(16:55):
Christians, that is includingbelievers.
I know people that believed inGod that committed suicide.
Do you remember the episode wedid where I talked, you know,
where the fellow, that was goinginto recovery?
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
The man of your.
Message board football thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, well, by the way, he, uh, asof about a week ago, he's still
(17:18):
doing strong.
He still appreciates prayers.
Um, praise, praise God, man.
That's amazing.
It's, it's not easy.
Um, you know, but he's fightingthe battle.
But on that board, there's,there's all these people and
somebody posted a thing like,does anybody know anybody that
committed suicide?
And I was thinking, oh, well Ido, I know two or three people
(17:41):
and I'm thinking I'm gonna beone of the few people that
answer that in the positive.
And a couple days later I goback on the board.
That thing is pages and pageslong.
It's almost like everybody onthere noose has known somebody
that committed suicide that has,yeah, there's a stat, isn't
(18:01):
there?
One sec.
Um, gimme one sec.
Um.
Isn't it?
Is it true that the biggestpillar of men under 40 in the UK
(18:25):
is suicide?
And so have a little look atthis part.
Yeah.
There's strong statisticalevidence that suicide is one of
the top, if not the top causesof death among younger men in
the uk.
Um, yeah.
(18:46):
Yeah, that's, uh, yeah, I mean,it's frightening, isn't it?
And you're right.
Like, you know, like, I mean, inthe UK as far like how we define
poverty, I mean, as you know,I've spent time in South Africa,
right?
And, um, you know, as you comeout of the airport.
Right.
You go past the, like the, theshanty towns, you know, the
townships, which I don't thinkshanty towns is probably the
best term, but, um, yeah, likeyou see, you like that's, you
(19:09):
see like that's how people live.
I remember driving, um, off theHal Bay, which is like, um, this
kind of beautiful, like bit ofCape Town, Cape Town's like a
number.
It's actually lots of differentkind of, um, districts or
actually like little towns thatare sort of.
Somewhat linked together, butnot always.
(19:31):
Right.
You know, quite often there'slike a big chunk of kind of
greenery in between them andheart bays like the, the white
people they're living, you know,they live very well.
You know, it's, it's a, it's anaffluent area.
Right.
And, um, I drove past thiscollection of shacks, like so
ramshackle and run down.
(19:52):
Yeah.
And I literally thought I was inan Uber.
I thought, no one, no one'sliving there, that must be
abandoned.
You know?
And then I saw the clothes line,you know, with freshly, you
know, obviously clothes that hadobviously been put on there
that, that day, you know, and I,I saw men coming out there, you
(20:12):
know, off to, you know, what Isaw a lot of men doing over
there was scavenging through,through.
Through the white people'srubbish, you know, not, you
know, I'm not, I'm not makingthis about race, but that is
what I observed.
You know what I mean?
And, um, I, we have so much inthe west and yet we're so
unhappy.
And that is just such a, apowerful, um, like example or
(20:35):
such a testament to.
It is that we're talking about,you know, the stuff of the
world, and it's like, look likethe, the devil took Jesus up,
didn't he?
Took him up, you know, took himup high, showed him all this,
you know, the, all, you know,all the stuff of the world.
You know, you, you can have allof this if you just bow down and
worship me, you know?
And, uh.
(20:57):
That I get, you know, that'swhat we're talking about, right?
Because obviously we've got theflesh right, which kinda hungers
for those things.
But then, but yeah, we've gotthe enemy as well.
You know, who sells us theseideas, you know, there, you
know, tells us this is what weneed to be.
Okay.
And there isn't enough of thatstuff there on and off s or
commas on your bank balance orthere aren't online, you know,
(21:17):
to make me feel like intent beto experience peace really, you
know?
Um, you know, Jesus talks aswell, doesn't, he talks about
the peace that makes no sense.
Know, a peace that surpasses allunderstanding.
You know, like the peace that Igive you is not like, is not
like what the world can offeryou, you know?
(21:39):
And that's it.
I literally, with without Jesusand focusing on I'm, I'm lost.
I, the moment I start, you startdrifting away and letting things
affect you.
I bet you in those shanty towns,there's probably not a high
suicide rate.
People are just trying tosurvive.
And then the more that we have,and like I said, even Christians
are probably are in that numberof committing suicide.
(22:01):
Uh.
H suffering through depression.
When we have everything at ourfingertips to give us the peace,
to give us the joy.
I mean, you and I know it.
You know, you and I have hadthat conversation.
We know Jesus is real.
We know the peace.
We've gotten that.
But if you, we've gotten thejoy, we've gotten the peace from
following Christ, but the momentyou turn your mind off.
(22:26):
To something else is when youstart getting the inner torment
and you start getting away.
And so what do you think aresome ideas just for the average
person, the average follower ofJesus?
Obviously if you don't knowJesus, um.
Richard and I would tell youthere's your solution, but there
are so many people that areChristians that are following
(22:47):
God, that, that still findthemselves fighting that battle
in the world.
And they're not getting the joy,they're not getting the peace,
they're not getting thehappiness.
It's gotten fairly easy to me.
I just know when external forcesare starting to talk to me, that
I just turn and go, okay.
I just think of everything God'sdone for me.
I start talking to God.
'cause when I'm talking to God,Satan can't talk to me.
(23:10):
So what, uh, do you have anyideas?
On how you focus on God and youfocus on Jesus.
I'm not talking about youwalking around with your Bible
in your hand at every moment,but living that life where
you're just, you're living withyour father'cause that's what he
is God.
Mm-hmm.
You're just communicating and itdoesn't leave your mind.
Any thoughts or ideas there?
(23:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely man.
And um, and this is stuff I'vebeen thinking about personally
recently.
'cause I, I've just, as youknow, I've just moved house and,
you know, it's been incrediblybusy month.
Right.
And, and, and, and my practice,you know, my, my, uh, my, my
discipline.
The picture for your back wallof me is on the way.
I'm just waiting.
Yes.
I'm, I'm, I'm waiting to get itframed that be Yeah.
(23:54):
As, as, yeah.
We'll, I'm just, I, I think Imissed, I missed, I missed the
FedEx man.
I think Pat, but, um, I want itthere before the wedding.
I just, you know, definitelywe'll probably have it up at the
wedding on my, that's, I gonnaeat, that's what I was thinking
on an easel.
Yeah.
If I can't get the passportworked out, I'd like, you know
what I mean?
(24:15):
Just right there in a chair, puta little small tux around it.
Um, yeah, absolutely.
Good job.
No, no, you're going, you'regoing through all of this.
Yeah, I'm going through all ofthis.
My practice has slipped.
Right.
Am I praying as much as I wasnot, am I, am I reading my Bible
as much?
No.
You know, like, am I talking toother believers as much as No.
Right.
And so I was thinking about thisthis afternoon, right?
And it's like, you know, like,but there's a number of things I
(24:38):
say to this, right?
But it's like, it's arelationship, you know?
So it's like if I'm in a, youknow, like if I'm in a
relationship with someone,right?
And I text them now and again,and they, you know.
I might, but I might not.
Yeah.
I'm too busy to call them.
Yeah.
And like if they text me, Imight get back to them, but I
(24:59):
might not, you know, like, youknow, like that kind of, you
know, if I, if I'm trying tobuild a relationship with
someone and that's how I behave,like that relationship is not
going anywhere.
Yeah.
Like, you know, so it's likehaving that relationship.
So it's like, okay, like how,how much am I doing?
To like to, to connect with, tobe close to him, to be, you
(25:23):
know, in that kind ofconversation, in that contact
with Jesus, like to actuallylike to, to rest in his love.
Right?
And, um.
I was on a group last nightonline and we were talking about
this.
It's like, it's not about works,you know, it's about faith.
We're justified through faith,like you know that, you know
through.
Some are in the process ofcoming to believe, you know, and
(25:45):
believing that Jesus was thesons of God.
Maid man walked among us, diedon the cross for us.
Sins rose again three dayslater.
To sit at the right hand of thefather, you know?
You know, if you believe that inyour heart and confess that with
your mouth, you are a Christian,right?
Like that's it.
You're a follower of JesusChrist and you are justified
through faith, you know, andthat grace is irrevocable and
like, you know, like you are allencompassing, right?
(26:07):
But it's not about works.
It's about that faith.
But that doesn't mean you don'thave to do some work.
You know what I mean?
Right, right.
Because it's a relat'cause it'sa relationship, you know, like
we're justified through faith,but then we gotta do, do some
stuff and that, you know, myfriend was speaking on this
Believers in Recovery or ourmeeting last night, and he was
like, you know, sometimes we canbe guilty of life just resting
in our salvation.
(26:28):
You know, we experience oursalvation and we just lie down,
kick our shoes off, you know,and just kind of.
Quarter along, putter along, youknow?
And, um, so it's like, what am Idoing?
What am I doing to have thatrelationship?
What am I doing to, um, to helpothers come to him?
You know, like, just like what,you know, and it, you know, we
(26:49):
all have different gifts anddifferent anointings.
You know, some people are greatevangelists, some people are,
you know, gifted in other ways.
But so what am I doing?
What am I doing for thatrelationship?
What am I doing to, in an effortto show my gratitude?
For this, immense, for this giftI've been given.
Like, that's indescribable, youknow?
(27:09):
And the other thing I just, Imean, I just, I guess, um, I
wanted to just respond reallyPat to like what you said about,
you know, we know what thesolution is.
Yeah.
And it's, it's like we know whatthe solution is, right?
That's like, I don't thinkabout, you know, it's not a
thought, you know, it's not abelief, you know what I mean?
It's, you know, it's like, Iknow, you know, because I've
(27:31):
experienced it.
Because I felt him reaching.
And touch me and heal things.
Nothing else had reached intouch and healed.
You know what I mean?
So it's like, I know, you know,but like to get to that point,
like for me, I didn't come inand I didn't have a supernatural
experience at the all, you know,like for me, I turned up right
in a place of desperation and Ikept turning up, you know, like
(27:54):
I kept reading the Bible evenwhen it made no sense to me.
You know?
I kept praying, I kept worship,you know, I kept, I kept turning
up, you know, church recoverymeeting, like Christian recovery
meetings.
It was like, for me, it's likethe darkness got got chipped off
bit by bit and then it hit meand it's somewhere in that
experience like that was wherenot all of a sudden I knew.
(28:17):
So I don't, you know, I don't, Idon't, I don't believe in God.
You know what I mean?
Like I know he's real.
You know what I mean?
It's not a belief.
It's like I just know, you know?
So I would encourage anyonethat's trying to.
You know, it's like struggling.
Like if you, like, if you'returning up and it still doesn't
make any sense and you feel likeit's not working and you're not
feeling anything and dah, dah,dah, dah, dah, like, that was
me.
(28:38):
But for a while, you know what Imean?
But there was enough.
There was just, there wasenough.
There was something that broughtme back, you know, glimmer.
That was all it was at first,for a while.
It was just a little glimmer oflight and then it, you know, and
that's how it happened.
For me, that was the same withmyself.
I, I didn't have that moment.
(28:58):
At the altar of the moment whenI prayed the Prayer of Salvation
that everything changed for me.
Everything did on the inside.
The Holy Spirit gets inside ofyou.
But yeah, well I was, that's agood analogy.
It was a chisel and a chisel.
I read the Bible at.
It didn't make any sense.
If you recall, in my book, Isaid, I try, started trying to
read the Bible and I, and Icouldn't get through what I
(29:20):
called the tudes, which was thebeginning.
I was just like, I'm like, okay,I'm four pages in and, and you
know, and we're ab Shaf and Ray.
I'm just like, okay.
And so I've just kinda readingalong now, uh.
I can pick the Bible up.
Actually, when I read it now, Iread it in more of a historical.
(29:41):
The first time I read the Bible,I read it through, and you know
why I read it.
'cause I was gonna get favor.
See, I was like, if I read thiswhole Bible through, then God
will certainly, uh, bless me andgive me my breakthrough.
So I read the whole thing.
I couldn't remember anything init.
All, all I was doing chapterdown, okay.
On to, I'm onto this great NewTestament.
Let me roll through this.
(30:02):
Moved right on through it.
I, I mean, I, I might as wellbeen reading the comic book.
Wasn't paying attention at all.
Now.
Inspired by you by the way.
Um, because of some of ourprivate conversations on things
you said when you turned to theBible.
I just started reading in ahistorical context and I started
reading into Matthew and I thinkwe had that conversation.
(30:22):
I did not know it was, it was 14generations.
'cause I'm a big history fan.
I would skip school and go readmy history book out, by the
lake.
Uh, but it was 14 years fromAbraham.
To David, 14 years from David tothe Jews being taken into
captivity and then 14 years toJesus.
(30:43):
So it, you know, it's kind ofunique.
There was a 14, 14, 14, and Ialso was surprised to find out
as we discussed that Solomon wasactually the.
Child of Bathsheba and David.
Mm-hmm.
The of their adulterous affair.
So it was, but now I read it andI get something out of it.
(31:06):
I'm reading it like, let me readthis to, we do so much when
you're I don't want.
Use the word mature, immature,Christian.
But when you're first starting,you are a little kind of, I'm
doing things to try to garnerfavor.
When I first really started, Imean, I'm just being honest.
I go to God now, you know, I'mlike, you know my motivations.
You know who I am, you know, theseedy side of me.
(31:27):
You know the good side of me.
That all comes from you.
I'm just here trying toaccomplish what you want me to
accomplish.
But when I read now I'mlearning.
Things are jumping out at methat I just didn't understand
and one of the biggest thingsthat I've noticed that when I'm
reading the Bible or I'm payingattention to God, remember I
told you about the prayerpeople, you know, I had somebody
(31:48):
tell me like, I feel guilty whenI'm praying.
Sometimes I fall asleep.
And I said, well, don't feelguilty because Jesus saying rest
in him.
Once you're talking to God,you're talking to Jesus.
All those fears kind of go away.
This is kind of an overlay ofwhat we're talking about.
If you're, when I would bestressed and I start thinking
about trying to solve a problemat two 15 in the morning, laying
(32:09):
in the bed, and you're not gonnasolve it.
All you're gonna do is justtorture yourself.
But if I'm in turn talking toGod, thanking him, I slip off, I
go to sleep.
Uh.
And that wisdom can somehow, youknow, seep into my head.
But the point is, I am talkingto God, I'm talking to my
father, and he's just like yourreal father.
He wants you to come talk tohim.
(32:29):
You don't have to come in withall these big words and
everything like that.
It's just like going to your dadgoing, look, I'm stressed about
this, or I got this going on.
Or you're being, you're beinggrateful, but if you're talking
to God, you're talking to Jesus.
Satan can't talk to you.
And as we talked about in thespiritual warfare, which we
could talk about in every singleepisode, because it really is
spiritual warfare.
When we get up and we started,when you and I started following
(32:52):
God and the money and everythingstarted coming in, Satan starts
attacking, okay, well he'sblessed them.
If I can get them, get theirmind off of this and get them
through, uh, get them to be thatanger or be anxious about
continuing to have this successand things.
I have just found that if youimmerse yourself.
In, if you immerse yourself inthe word of God, I'm not talking
(33:15):
about just walking aroundcarrying your Bible, but if
you're reading, if you'relistening, if you're thinking
about something, uh, watching asermon of, with a pastor reading
a book, just constantly beputting it in your mind.
Then the world and the world isSatan.
'cause who, you know.
You made a good point.
Satan took Jesus up on the hill,said, I'll give you this.
(33:36):
What does that mean?
If he says, I'll give you this,that means he owns it.
And so what do we do?
We go out here and we try tosurvive in, in this world when
we should be focusing on Jesus.
I have this, what I call the onething principle.
If I'm reading a book or readinga chapter, or if I'm reading a
chapter in the Bible.
One thing, don't try to soak itall in, just take one thing from
(33:59):
it.
Mm-hmm.
And then you're constantly kindof dwelling on, Hey, I heard a
pastor, I heard a great sermon,this one thing, and then just
kind of remember that.
And then it just builds this,uh, this mansion of goodness in
your head where the other stuffcan't come in.
And just remember what you focuson determines how you feel and
(34:19):
determines what you feel.
It's just that simple.
If you're focusing on God,you're focusing on Jesus, you're
gonna be more positive, you'regonna be happy.
You're going to have peace inyour mind.
You might be dealing with astressful situation, but if
you're dealing with it under theguise of, God has seen me
through everything else in mylife, he's gonna see me through
this.
If it's a stressful situation,whatever it is, if you focus on
(34:42):
God.
Immerse yourself in the goodnessof God, in the goodness of his
blessings, the goodness of hisgrace, and what he's done for
you.
That's what takes it away fromme, and it's just, it's what you
focus on is gonna determine howyou feel.
Remember.
You gotta go to God.
He's not yelling at you.
He's not yelling at you to getaway from the cliff.
Satan's telling you to go to thecliff, jump off the cliff, and
(35:05):
here's 15 reasons why you jumpoff the cliff.
That's why you have actualChristians that have committed
suicide and that live withdepressions and are struggling
on a daily basis.
But if you consciously.
I'm talking to God, I do it justin, I don't have to stop and
pull over on the side of theroad.
I'm like, all right, God.
All right.
I'm literally ready to punchthis woman in the face at the
gas station.
You know, I just constantly havea running conversation, just
(35:26):
like I would my very own father.
'cause he is, is our very ownfather.
Um, anyway, you have any, uh,closing thoughts on that?
Um, well, let me have a littlethink about what else is there
to say on this.
I mean, we've definitely focusedon that sort of external.
Validation and gratification, Iguess.
(35:49):
Uh, the thing, I was justlooking through the Bible as you
were talking, you know, and I, Ithink just to think to what you
were talking about, Matthewfour, four, you know, Jesus
answered.
This is in response to thedevil.
You know, it is written, manshall not live on bread or line,
but on every word that comesfrom the mouth of God.
(36:10):
And, uh, and you know what, Ithink what, what that, the point
that that makes to me, man,shall not live on bread alone.
It doesn't say, man shall notlive on bread, you know?
We gotta be, we gotta be in theworld.
Like there are some things thatwe need, right?
Like, you know, I need to beable to pay my electricity bill.
You know, I need to be able tokeep a roof over my head.
(36:31):
You know, like, so we kind ofhave to kind of be in the world,
but it's about the way that weattach to it.
You know?
It's what do we worship?
You know, do I worship thethings of the world or do I
worship him?
You know?
And that's the, I guess thatspeaks to our title, right?
It's like living in the world asa Christian, you know?
Um, yeah, so it's like, yeah,like we, the word of God is what
(36:54):
feeds us and we need to findways to be in the world and
engage in worldly things, butwithout that becoming the full
side, you know, without thatbecoming to the order that we
worship us.
I think that's the, that's,that's the trick, man.
And it's, you know, I don't knowabout you Pat, but it's an
(37:15):
ongoing battle for me.
You know, it's a, see, it's aseesaw for me, you know, but I
actually, you know, I just wannashare as well, like for the
anyone listening, it's like, youknow, I certainly don't stand on
a pedestal of like spiritual,like perfection or anything
close to, right.
It's like this is a battle forme, like I've been in it this
month.
You know, like I'm in it thismonth.
(37:36):
You know, there's everyth, youknow, moving house.
It's busy.
I'm too busy for this.
I'm too busy to commune withhim.
Too busy.
You know, I haven't got time toinvest in that'cause I've got
all these things to do.
I need to go to the gym.
I haven't been to the gym forthree days.
I've got an hour spare.
What am I gonna do?
I'm gonna go to the gym.
What am I worshiping?
My biceps?
You know what I mean?
And actually this, thisconversation has really.
(37:58):
Just really reignited that like,you know, it's a timely reminder
for me.
So if, you know, yeah, there arepeople listening, I think that
hopefully we can kind of bringto faith, you know, through
listening to this.
But also if you're in faith andyou struggle with this, like, me
too brother, you know, you'renot alone i's doing it, but you
can by focusing on one quickthing.
(38:21):
The other day I was fixing a$8,uh, flapper, I mean an$8 fill.
Uh, valve in my toilet, uh,because it was running a little
too much.
It's amazing.
With YouTube now I've becomedangerous fixing things around
the house.
I couldn't get the nut off thebottom of the toilet, and I'd
read the reviews where ourgrandmother said it took her
(38:42):
five minutes, but I didn't havethe tool to get the nut off the
bottom.
And my wife comes home.
I, my language, when my, when Imet my wife, I had the language
on my hard drive.
She was like, well, you were inthe military, weren't you?
I said, I was.
She said, well, why?
How?
I said, how, how'd you know?
She said, because I've neverheard anybody.
She used that filthy, you know,a mouth and, and I cleaned all
(39:06):
that up.
So, you know, but my wife isalways throughout the years, you
know, when something, when Idropped a hammer on my toe, she
would look at me and give methe, uh, you know, you need to
talk to Jesus about yourlanguage.
And, um, so I would get thepoint.
But anyway, I'm in this bathroomand I'm letting out just, ah,
you know, every time I'mdropping the wrench and I'm just
ready to choke somebody becauseI can't get an$8 fill valve.
(39:30):
This thought and, and I came andso that's life.
That is just life to whensomeone gets up and, and they've
listened to us or they've hadthis conversation, they've
listened to their pastor andthey get up on Monday or their
Tuesday and this happens, or thespouse comes in, or the boss or
whatever's going on, or the carmesses up.
You go zero to a hundred andyour're back in this world and
you're stressed as opposed togoing, I'm living with God.
(39:53):
I have a father I can text.
I mean, literally I can almostjust.
Text.
He's given me a whole blueprinton how to live that's in the
Bible.
Um, and he's just right there.
Okay, wait a minute, this is mypeace.
Calm down.
Let me put my faith.
Uh, lemme put my focus, uh, backon Jesus and everything he's
done for me.
No, you're not gonna floataround.
(40:13):
Neither one of us do, which iswhat we just illustrated.
Um.
But that has given me greatpeace in my life.
I start going off, but I comeback and I come back and I come
back and what I've done, whatI've learned, just focus on God,
focus on Jesus.
And you don't have to walkaround singing hymns all the
time, but just make it cognizantand it's what you put in your
(40:33):
mind too.
In this world these days, thestuff people are seeing on, you
know what you got, if you cut ontv, if you cut on the news and
all the people that are ready topunch everybody in the face and
stuff.
But if you're filling your mindwith all of that.
You know, my wife has this thinglike, you cut on the news or
whatever you're gettingirritated or angry or you're
mad.
And look what somebody said on,she'll walk by and grab the
(40:55):
control and go, we are turningto Jesus.
And it'll be a pastor, uh, on astation that's just given a
sermon.
And five minutes later, 10minutes later, not only has the
blood pressure gone down, butnow you're encouraged.
You just learned something.
I just heard the word of God.
I just heard God talking andnow.
I've got joy now.
My peace and everything is backsimply'cause I'm focusing on God
(41:18):
and focusing on Jesus.
But I think you hit the nail onthe head for everybody out
there.
It's a struggle, but it's astruggle that Jesus won.
He won the struggle, he won thebattle, and we should live in
the victory of it.
So, uh, we'll leave it there.
Uh, Richard, you have somethingI know that you, uh, have to do.
You are a multitasker.
Well, you're not, if your worldrenowned, which you are.
(41:41):
World renowned in small, it'ssmall areas, but yeah.
Thanks Pat.
Yeah, you can't just close thecomputer like me and go lay, lay
in the bed and start thinking upgoofy stuff to say it, to say it
the next show.
So, so go out and make an impactin people's lives and, uh, and
everyone else out there.
So good to see you, rich.
And once you too, man.
God bless everybody.
(42:02):
Yep.
God bless everybody out there.
And keep your mind on God.
Keep your mind on your Father.
He's your father.
Keep your mind on Jesus andyou'll see a big difference in
your life, and you'll fulfillhis purpose and everybody has
it.
It's not just to go out andevangelize.
You'd be amazed at everybodythat's listening, the impact
that you're making on people'slives.
If you're following Jesus andyou're walking in the.
(42:25):
The path he wants you to walk.
So, alright, we'll see you nexttime and take care, rich.
Do you later, pat.
God bless you man.
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