Ep 12: Spiritual Awakening and Revival in the UK and USA, and the impact of the life of Charlie Kirk
September 29, 2025 • 33 mins
Pat and Richard talk about the spiritual awakening and revival that's happening in England and America, along with important things a follower of Jesus should keep in mind as they grow in their faith. They also discuss the impact Charlie Kirk's passing is having on it, and the lessons we should learn from how he lived his life.
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Episode Transcript
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Pat (00:20):
and welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast.
I am comedian and recoveringidiot, pat McCool.
And now across the AtlanticOcean to London, England, to
world renowned psychotherapistand addiction specialist and
former member of the British BoyBand, Toby and the Towel Boys,
(00:45):
Richard Terrell.
Rich (00:47):
Well, that is quite an intro, pat.
I not, uh, it does, doesn'thappen often, but I'm almost
lost for words.
Um, hello Pat.
Nice to see you.
Pat (00:55):
How, how are things going in London today?
Rich (00:58):
Good.
It's kind of like cool.
And, but we haven't had anyrain, which is nice.
Our summer's very much over.
But yeah.
Good.
Just, uh, as you know,assembling flat pack furniture
today.
Um, or should I say my fiance iscurrently assembling flat pack
furniture.
I'm in here talking to you.
Um, I feel like I kind of gotthe better end of that deal,
(01:19):
really.
Um, that's happy, but yeah.
Pat (01:21):
Good man blessed you.
You have to establish traditionsas you're, uh, as you're, as
you're starting to, as you'regetting married, you gotta kinda
lay down, let her, you know, actlike I'm gonna come help you
with this, but I got somethingto do.
And then you kind of kill asmuch time as you can to try to
get the furniture established.
That's how you get out of doingstuff.
And when you do get, you know,get married, I know as we've
(01:44):
said, you had to go at itbefore, but like the first time
you do the dishes.
Break something.
If you'll just break somethingone time, she'll never let you
do it again.
Then when you go do the laundry,get one of her good blouses.
It's gonna cost you a few bucks,but get a good blouse and, and
maybe a white one, and mix itwith some red colors.
Rich (02:04):
Okay,
Pat (02:04):
wash it.
It's gonna ruin the blouse, butthat's it.
There'll be no more laundry forRichard from that point.
Lemme want this
Rich (02:12):
down Pat, hang on.
I'm just looking for a pen.
Any,
Pat (02:15):
any tips I can, any tips that I can get you, but that you
just, that right there, you'llhave to buy our new blouse.
Maybe some flowers and a candleto go with it, but you won't be
doing that anymore.
It's a
Rich (02:24):
worthwhile investment.
Yeah.
The truth is Pat, she's actuallymuch better at that stuff than
I'm, I'm a therapist so I cantalk to her while she's doing
it, about how she feels, whatmight be coming up.
Oh, I see.
If there's anything fromchildhood that, that this, you
know, like is similar to whatkind of patterns of behavior of
ot.
Tara angry, she feels at me forasking her these questions while
she's assembling the furniture.
(02:45):
But yeah, that I, I'm, it's not,it's not in my, in my wheelhouse
really.
That sort of stuff.
Stuff.
Yeah,
Pat (02:51):
excellent.
You're, you're already workingthe angles and life is all about
the angles, so thank you.
Okay.
Uh, well, today we, we want tocover the spiritual awakening
and revival, which we had on tapto do, but then again, um, but
then we had the tragic death ofCharlie Kirk here in America,
and we obviously wanted to, uh,briefly talk about that.
(03:14):
What I'm curious about is thereaction in the uk.
I saw some things online thatthere was.
A big memorial, for him.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Can you just give us an idea on,uh, I, you know, I didn't know
he was even known in the uk Sois, was he known in the UK or
what's the reaction there?
Rich (03:35):
Yeah, so obviously he had a big, um, presence on social
media.
Certainly my, my other half waslike very, very aware of him,
was very shocked and saddenedby, by his death.
Um, I think amongst youngpeople, obviously they spend a
lot of time on Instagram, sothat, you know, and there's, as
we'll get into, there's thiskind of resurgence or, you know,
like revival of faith inhappening in our country too.
(03:57):
So like people were definitelyaware there was a vigil.
For him held.
Um, in London there was a marchas well, but PE the march was
actually not about him.
People speculate that attendancein that Inc at that increased
because of his death.
(04:19):
Um, but it was actuallyorganized by like a, a separate
kind of political, um, whateveryou'd call it, commentator or,
you know, figure.
Um, so there, there wasn't, youknow, it, it circulated on, on
social media that there was 3million people marched in London
for Charlie Kirk.
That that absolutely wasn'ttrue.
There was a march.
Numbers have been debated, splitbetween a hundred and 500,000,
(04:41):
but that was actually a, aseparate thing.
But yeah, like some, someimpact.
Definitely.
Like my pastor, pastor, he, heactually wasn't aware of who
Charlie Kirk was.
'cause he, he, he describeshimself as a bit of a kind of
social media, like recluse, youknow, so he wasn't aware.
So, yeah, he was nothing likethe figure he is sadly was of
(05:03):
course in the States, but yeah,it had it, it had impact over
here for sure.
Pat (05:09):
Yeah, I thought the 3 million, you know, people glob
onto those things.
I didn't think that was true.
That's why I was kind ofcurious.
So that was another rally, butyou think since it was, it was
maybe faith-based that, that didincrease the turnout?
Uh, yeah.
I didn't think 3 million people,3 million people is, is a large
percentage of.
Great.
Brilliant.
Rich (05:30):
That would, I mean, we've got about 80 million, but like
the population of London itselfis 8 million.
So 3 million people on thestreets of London would, um, it
would be difficult not to noticethat because the city would
grind to a halt.
Um, but it was a politicalrally.
Um.
Obviously not gonna get into allof that, but it was not, um, it
(05:50):
was not Charlie Kirk, it was notaround Charlie Kirk, but there
was a vigil for it, which was,had a, a, a big attendance.
I don't know the number, butthere was a vigil.
Pat (05:59):
The fact that there was a big vigil, uh, is Charlie Kirk
is kind of surprising.
And I, I think it led to, youknow, we were talking about
spiritual, uh, awakening andrevival in America also, you
know, the message board.
I'm always talking about that.
I go on the sports messageboard.
Uh, I was really surprised tosee people that were talking
(06:20):
about, I'm going to church.
This, you know, it, it had a bigimpact on people and it, it did
make a difference.
I, I saw something online, uh,and this was true in America, a
woman in Massachusetts.
Her and her husband are on theirway to work and she says, oh my
gosh, look at this.
And she said, my, my husbandjust told me to look up and they
(06:40):
had turned the corner towardsthe main road leading to the
church and it was packed.
And she said, it is never likethis.
'cause you know, I lived up inNew York, I lived in New Jersey,
and, and churches just don't getthat kind of a attendance.
You have a lot of Catholicchurches, you have mass, but
nothing like that.
So it did cause a really big,uh.
(07:04):
Spiritual awakening or revival,which we'll discuss in a minute.
But, you know, the thing is it,you know, obviously had an
impact on me.
I was devastated.
I didn't really follow him, uh,hugely.
I knew who he was.
But, you know, one thing Ilearned is I started watching
videos and, and, and, andlistening was, he was an example
to me because.
(07:25):
You know, I'm a person that's,you know, can be quick to get
angry.
I don't display that to people,but, um, he never met, you know,
anger with anger.
He never insulted people., Henever did.
He just didn't do that.
If you ever look, he was aboutopen dialogue.
He was about, I'm, I'm gonnadiscuss my faith and I'm not
going to insult you.
(07:46):
Matter of fact, the only time,only video I've ever seen of him
where he, he was displaying any.
You know, looked, kind of gothis dander up was when a,
another professed Christian hadcome to the microphone and was
mad at him because of therespect and platform that he was
giving to this LGBT person.
And what, what that he wasdebating, you know, he, he was
(08:08):
having a conversation with himand he was giving a platform,
being very kind, veryunderstanding.
And then this person that wassaying he was a Christian was
taking him to task for it and hegot his dander up a little bit
and was like, this is not howJesus.
You know, response.
Rich (08:23):
Absolutely, man.
Absolutely.
And look, I, I wasn't aware ofhim not until, until literally
like the news came out that he'dbeen shot.
Right.
But, um, you know, from what Isee, a very clever young man,
very passionate about his faith,full of love, like one or two
things that.
(08:43):
Uh, you know, there was a coupleof things that I found like him
having said that, like don'tnecessarily like a hundred
percent align with my views, butnot very much.
Like, not very much.
And he was like, you know, hewas clearly like a, he was a man
of God, you know, and he was,you know, and he brave, you
know, and fearless and kind and,um.
Sad man.
Do you know what I mean?
(09:03):
And regardless of any of thatstuff we got, like for me it's
like regardless of where any ofus, where anyone sits, right?
And like Jesus tells us to loveeveryone, love our neighbors,
love our enemies.
You know, like you, you know,like in fact says actually, if
you just love the people that.
You like, right.
Then what have you act, what areyou actually doing for me?
You know, that's kinda what hesays, right?
And, um, but like we, we need tolive in a society where people
(09:26):
can express themselves and notget shot in the neck.
You know, like that's as, it'sas simple as that, man, you
know, for me that's like, youknow, one of the corner, you
know, the cornerstones of livingin a, in, in a free society, you
know, like, yeah.
Pat (09:41):
That's the example that Jesus taught us.
And, and that's what I kind oflearned from it.
Listen, I'm like, I don't dothat.
I, I, you know, I can getirritated at somebody or Jesus
just didn't.
Teach us to, to do that, youknow, have your opinions, but
treat people civilly, treatpeople with respect.
And he was, uh, he was quite theexample and he looks like he may
(10:03):
end up having a much biggerimpact, unfortunately, in, in
his passing.
Then, and I, like, I don'treally, I don't know why, but
the word death, it's always inpassing.
Especially if someone's afollower of Jesus because he is
passing on to a, to a greatplace.
But the legacy that he's leavingis the spiritual awakening and,
and revival that's making adifference.
(10:24):
And if people pay attention,like myself, I learned, I
started realizing.
You know, I don't always actthat way.
I don't always, you know, Imean, I, I don't outwardly do
it, but I start thinking andgetting, you know, you start
getting your dander up, but just'cause somebody disagrees with
you.
Um.
Jesus went out and talked anddebated and talked, and he kind
(10:45):
of acted the same way that, soCharlie Kirk really did emulate,
uh, as much as I've seen a humando, uh, Jesus Christ.
And
Rich (10:54):
yeah, and, and we were looking at my, you know, my, my
half and I were looking at likescripture and stuff and, you
know, there were times whereJesus got angry.
You know, there were times hegot passionate and there were
times he got frustrated with.
Like, you know, when he wouldspeak to the, um, to the
disciples, right?
And he was like, are you sodull?
You know, like, it's like he'ssaying, don't you get it yet?
(11:17):
You know?
Right.
And like when he heal, you know,when he healed in the Sabbath
and that like, you know, he was,he pushed back, you know, he had
some feelings about it, youknow, and, and, and so what we
kind of got to in our, in ourdiscussion, right, is, is.
Like, it's okay to have feel,you know, it's okay to have
feelings and to have passion andto, you know, even to veer into
(11:37):
like, you know, sometimesfeeling angry or frustrated,
right?
But love underpins it all, youknow, and it's that, you know,
that scripture about, you know,if you haven't got, you know,
you can know all the scripture,right?
You can like all of it, right?
You know, you can have the, youknow, you can prophecy, you can,
you know, speak in tongues, youcan do all of those things,
right?
But like, if you haven't gotlove.
(11:59):
You are just a clanging symbol,you know, it's like, it's, you
know, and it like, it's, it'sempty, you know?
And that, so that's the, youknow, you know, Charlie was
clearly like, passionate,committed, you know, very brave.
Like a, you know, I think to sitin a room, you know, a hall or
whatever, a stadium with peoplekind of, who don't want to come
(12:21):
and, you know, many of'em aregonna be kind of angry with you
and stuff like that.
Right.
But he was, but you can see itwas all underpinned with love.
And that's really something, youknow, that's really something.
I, I know that Louis CS Lewisand, um, Rick Warren in the
Purpose Driven Life book, nowthey talk about dressing up like
(12:42):
Christ, you know, like clothingourselves, like him, you know,
trying to be, trying to em to,as you, the word you used
emulate him, you know?
And, um, you know, Charlotte,you know.
Don't want to put him up as somekind of deity, but he definitely
emulated that stuff in a waythat was very public and very
(13:02):
committed and very passionate.
Pat (13:06):
That's why he had such an impact.
And um, back to our main topic,the spiritual awakening.
He has certainly.
Poured fuel on that fire, butit's actually been going on for
a, a while now.
And also in the UK and also inin America.
It made me start looking at someof these numbers.
Mm-hmm.
A lot is going on, uh, with GenZ.
(13:28):
I don't know what all the gen,the, I don't know what all the.
The, uh, generations aresupposed, you know what I mean?
I just found out, I alwaysthought I was a baby boomer.
They blame everything in Americaon baby boomers.
Uh, but I think I'm, I'msupposed to be part of a Jones
generation.
We were a little too late forWoodstock, but, you know, which
is kind of sad for me'cause Ireally wanted to be a hippie,
(13:49):
but they weren't there.
You know,
Rich (13:52):
you've grown, you've got a hair, you've grown your hair,
right.
Well, I've got the,
Pat (13:56):
yeah, that's, that's my, as you diagnosed me, uh, you know,
a number of episodes back wasmy, was my, was my rebelling
because my dad was an armycolonel and, and my dad would
take us to get a haircut.
I mean, I, I look like a, and itwas this flat top.
My hair was so flat that I couldcarry my books to school on my
(14:19):
head.
And then I'm, we moved from ArmyPost when we came to
Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
We're in this civilian town, andI walk into my fourth grade
class wearing a Mickey Mouset-shirt, and all of the kids in
there look like the Beatles and,and I look like a drill
sergeant.
You know, so I always takeWelcome.
Yeah,
Rich (14:39):
good.
Start off to a good start.
Yeah.
Pat (14:42):
Yeah.
So you, it just kind of stuckwith me.
I'm like, I'm, I'm, you know,once I get a chance, I'm growing
this stuff out.
Even though when I was in thecorporate world, I had to get
the dash a, but my dad used toactually, uh, not to get off
topic when we lived in a placecalled Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
I mentioned this in my book.
My dad would take us, there wasa prison, a federal prison, and
(15:02):
a military prison.
And my dad on, on base.
You could get your hair cut forlike a dollar, but if you went
out to the prison, they had thisannex where these shops on the
outside of the prison wherethese prisoners were.
We're, you know, learningtrades, woodworking, whatever,
cutting hair.
And he would take us out to getour hair cut'cause he could save
(15:24):
50 cents.
And the guy Richard, cutting myhair was shackled to the floor.
And there's a, there was a guyover in the corner with an M 16.
You know, I don't know ifthere's a lot, but he's holding
this M 16 and the guy shackledthe four, this guy's got a, you
know, he's sitting back behindme with, I dunno if he's doing
life or whatever.
(15:44):
I'm like, geez, dad, 50 cents.
Really?
Just to get this bur cut overhere.
Rich (15:49):
Yeah.
So, uh, I feel, I feel like weare like, it's each episode past
this we shedding more light onlike the kind of trauma and, you
know, what, like what left, whatled you to go off the rails
path.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, we, I'm just gonna put thatin my clinical notes.
Pat (16:05):
Yeah.
Uh, basically I'm, I'm, I getoff here and go, yeah.
I'm tricking Richard intothinking we're trying to help
people experience the fullnessand joy of Jesus, but I'm really
getting some free therapy out ofthis.
I couldn't afford, I couldn'tafford this in my life to I get
off, think I'm learning a lotabout myself, but, um.
But yeah, in the, spiritualawakening and revival, which is
(16:25):
taking place, there are actuallytwo different things and people
confuse the two.
Revival is obviously restoringsomething.
It's bringing something back.
It's something that was there.
So when you're seeing the churchparking lots in many cases fill
back up, they are, they're, it'sa revival.
You know, we've, I've seen ithappen in America quite a bit.
(16:46):
There was a, the Zuzu street,uh, revival in Los Angeles.
If you ever Google that, thatwas a pretty amazing thing.
And I know there was a, a pastornamed John Kirkpatrick that was
involved in one in Brownsville,Texas.
It's a world revival and peopleare just coming back and coming
back to the faith.
You're restoring a spiritualawakening.
(17:07):
You're not restoring, you'recoming to learn it.
You're yourself, you're comingto, to Jesus for the first time.
You're learning the truth.
You're kind, so you end up atthe same place.
But they are kind of twodifferent things.
So, uh, and you and I have bothexperienced that.
And we just want to talk a, youknow, a little bit about for
(17:28):
people that are coming to faithfor the first time.
'cause I know a lot of peoplethat are, that listen to this
podcast are the first time,whether you're somebody that's
in, uh, addiction or, uh, youknow, what, you know, whatever's
bringing you back to the faith.
You know, whatever's bringingyou to Jesus for the first time.
We want to use all of ourexperiences and, you know, we
(17:50):
get our, uh, not expertise, weget what we have by, we did it
all wrong the first time andwe've made all the mistakes.
So hopefully people can learnfrom ours.
And people need to understand ifyou're in the revival or
spiritual awakening, if you'refollowing Jesus, there's a great
scripture of John 1516 thatpeople need to realize.
(18:11):
God chose you.
Jesus chose you.
It says You did not choose me,but I chose you and appointed
you that you should go and bearfruit, and that your fruit
should remain, that whatever youask of the father and my name,
he may give it to you.
So anybody listening.
That is filling the spiritualrevival.
(18:34):
That is having the spiritualawakening.
Remember, God chose you like hechose me.
And Richard, he chose you.
And when you.
End up giving your life to Jesuswhen you end up following Jesus.
Because Richard and I, if you'velistened to other episodes, we,
I think we, we both think I, Ithink I'm fair to speak for you,
(18:56):
that we started following God.
We started a belief, but wedidn't, you know, completely
accept Jesus till time came, youknow, till along the line.
We started following God, thingsstarted changing.
At least that was the.
That was the case in, um, in mylife.
Like the example that I gave, inmy book where I'm, I had been a
(19:18):
believer.
You know, I prayed the sinner'sprayer and accepted Jesus in my
mind.
But I hadn't given it all upuntil that day that I'm sitting
in church.
Do you, I don't know if yourecall, but there was a day that
I got up, my wife wasn't goingto church.
I went on my own.
That almost never happens.
'cause I, I'm a sli, I loveJesus, but I'm a slacker.
(19:39):
You know, if I get a chance to,oh, when we're not going, oh,
she's not feeling well this day.
I went, ended up sitting next tomy mother-in-law.
Um.
That was a very powerful momentbecause my mother-in-law was
just this huge person in mylife, just this huge spiritual
leader, and it was just soironic that I'm sitting next to
her that day and the pastorcomes in.
(20:00):
Now remember, I have been aChristian in my mind and I've
been a follower for years.
Uh, but on that particular day,the pastor starts giving the,
what you would call the altarcall.
He starts giving what we, youknow, we call the invitation in
churches in the south, and he,you know, anyone that needs to
get it, to give their life or,and I'm sitting there thinking,
(20:23):
Hey, you know, go ahead.
I'm, look, you know, can we getthis over with?
You know, I'm certainly notabout to stand up.
And then he gives theinvitation.
Nobody does.
He does it again.
He says, okay, somebody, there'ssomebody in here that needs to
remember I was going throughsome troubles, even though I had
followed, you know, was afollower of Jesus and.
I, again, I don't move.
(20:44):
I'm starting to get irritated.
I'm like, Don, come on.
Could we get this over with?
And then he get, but somethingis moving in me.
And then he finally does it ofthe third time he said, there's
somebody here and I'm notleaving until this happens.
And something came over me andas my mother-in-law recalls, my
hand shot straight up in theair.
(21:05):
I felt drenched in sweat and Ifelt something that kind of came
over me like no drug that I'dever had, and that was when I
really accepted Jesus and gaveit over to the Holy Spirit.
Because when you accept Jesus,when you sincerely accept Jesus,
you were filled with as much ofthe Holy Spirit as everybody as
(21:26):
the 500 on pen.
At Pentecost, people are alwayslike, I'm praying for more of
the holy.
You have it.
He gave it to you, it's up toyou how much you surrender to
it.
And that's kind of, that's whathappened to me on that
particular day where Isurrendered.
And really that's where I gotthe full peace, full joy that
(21:47):
really came into my life, eventhough I've been a believer all
those years.
And I'd just like to share thatwith people.
'cause I know people thatbelieve God and they pray the
sinner's prayer and you know,but they still don't get that,
that final piece.
Um.
But anyway, your your thoughtson that?
Rich (22:03):
Yeah, I mean, look, as, you know, just a minute or two,
like on that, like, yeah, sameexperience really, like was in
it, you know, believed in mymind, you know, like it made
sense to me.
It felt a heart shift.
Like I, yeah, like I knew thatthis is true, you know, is the
son of God.
Um, and then after sometroubles, like, but the first
(22:24):
inkling was this deep sense offorgiveness that I had.
I really felt it in my heart.
It's like I'm forgiven.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I am forgiven, right?
And, and then I realized howlittle I've forgiven myself.
And then, you know, that wasextremely powerful and healing
in its own right.
And then there was just this,this moment in church where the
pastor was the pastor always getpicked up and saying, pastor,
(22:46):
'cause I has spaghetti.
Pastor was say, was, was talkingabout adversity in Matthew.
You know, come to meet.
All of you are weary andburdened.
You know,'cause you know, my, myyoke is easy and my burden is,
is light.
Right?
And, and then he was, he wasamazing.
He's called Steven Foster.
He's um.
He's an amazing speaker.
(23:07):
Right?
Very passionate.
And, um, it took me a while towork out what it was about.
How when he spoke it spoke to meso much and I, I laterally
realized it was how much hebelieved it.
You know, when he talks, you cansee his face is red.
You can see the tears in hiseyes like he believes what he's
in, what he's saying.
'cause he's, he's preaching theword of God.
Right.
Simple as that, you know, he isa vessel.
But the way that that particularvessel believes in what he's
(23:29):
saying.
Anyway, he was talking aboutthis and, um.
And I just got walloped, man.
Just got hit with the, that,just that sense of love, man.
That deep abiding love.
And, and it's interesting thatthat verse you chose from, you
know, John 1516 actually, youknow, John 1517.
Very simple.
(23:49):
Yeah.
It's like, what, seven words,this is my command.
Love each other.
And, um, yeah.
But yeah, the revival, like, youknow, on that, so I, I, I looked
up some.
Some numbers.
So we've had a huge revival inGen Z, so more of our Gen Z
population in this country areattending church than ever have,
(24:13):
right?
Church attendance in thiscountry is up for the first time
in a long time.
You know, in the wake of CharlieKirk's death, we saw numbers
certainly in, I do two churcheson a Sunday.
I an addict, right?
One wouldn't be enough, right?
So there you go.
Um, yeah.
And um.
You know, like the, the numberswere up in numbers were clearly
(24:35):
up in both one's very small andintimate, which I really like.
There's more, and I get a goodsense of community there.
One's very big and bold andvibrant and, you know, amazing
worship, you know, very wellproduced, all that stuff.
But, um, yeah, numbers were up,man.
Do you know what I mean?
Numbers were up and actually atmy former church up in Oxford,
um.
(24:56):
They were talking about, they'vebeen talking about this for
months, actually, way, waybefore Charlie's death.
And, um, they were sayingsomething's happening.
You know, like, and Oxford'salways been a very spiritual
place.
CS Lewis experience had hisconversion experience there.
Right.
Um, there's a lot oftheological, uh, theological,
uh, college colleges there and,you know, there's a, there's a
(25:17):
lot that happens in that citywhere it's kind of a crossroads
for like.
You know, some of the mostamazing intellects in, in our,
in this world, right?
Like, and, um, anyway, so inOxford it's an aldates church.
Um, they were talking what,sorry?
It's a, what?
It's called St.
Aldates, St.
(25:38):
St.
Al Date's, the church is called.
And, um, he, like they weresaying that they, they were
having people just turn up, likesaying stuff like, I don't
really know what I'm doing here.
But like some, something like Ijust feel like I've got lead
here today.
And that was, no, it wasn't aone off like that was happening
like regularly.
And they had one service wherethey do four services on a
(26:00):
Sunday.
It's a very, you know, bigchurch and, um.
They in one service, they had 39people respond to that
invitation to the oracle.
You know, 39 people gave theirlives to Jesus in whitelock in
one service.
You know, so like something is afootman for sure.
And um, and I think that thesad, um, sad death and sad
(26:21):
murder of Charlie Kirk, his, um.
Has accelerated that, you know,and as tragic as it is, and you
know, obviously he's, you know,left behind a wife and kids and
stuff and it's awful.
But, you know, like it, it seemsto have added to something that
was already gaining place.
Um, and that can only be a goodthing.
(26:42):
Ultimately,
Pat (26:45):
definitely seemed to pour fuel on the fire and.
It's how God works.
I, I don't, you know, I'm notone of those, Hey, it's God's
plan.
When some to somebody who'spassed or who's died, I don't
really know, but it's made adifference in a lot of people's
lives.
And Yeah.
And, and add,
Rich (27:04):
sorry, pat, but it's like, you know, like, like he works
all things for good.
Right?
All things were good.
Uh, the scripture tells us that,you know, so, but yeah.
Sorry.
Go on, man.
Pat (27:14):
No, he has a, he has a plan and he.
You know, he uses something likethis.
If he probably knew CharlieKirk's date of passing on the
day.
Charlie Kirk was, uh, CharlieKirk was born.
And it has, it touched so manypeople and is probably gonna end
(27:36):
up with a lot of people aregoing to end up in heaven.
A lot of people following Jesusbecause of the life that he
lived and.
Um, we're having same numbers inthe United States that you are
in the UK and people coming backto church, people that are
becoming Christians on thatmessage board.
When there was a thread about,you know, after the Charlie
Kirk, people going to church,there were people that were
(27:58):
saying, well, you know, a fewmonths ago I just, I was feeling
empty in my life and, I didfollow Jesus, or I did go to
church, or I grew up.
Catholic, I grew up this, nowI'm following Jesus and I gave
my life.
And, and everything has changedand they're getting that full
peace and joy that you and I aretrying to help others find.
(28:19):
And so, you know, you just wantto help people along.
Give them any advice and tipsyou can.
And, and one thing I'd like tosay to, to any new converts, any
people that are.
Going through revival, you'regoing to have doubts also.
You're going to, it's justnatural that you'll have things
that doubt along the way.
And I just wanted to mentionthat one of the, um, one of the
(28:43):
things, if you remember thestory of John the Baptist, you
know, John the Baptist, lept inthe womb when Jesus came near,
he baptized, Jesus himself toldhis followers to stop following
him and to follow Jesus.
And he actually heard God'svoice, thunder from heaven
saying, this is my son.
Who am I?
Well pleased.
(29:03):
But then he had a moment ofdoubt where he found himself
sitting in a prison.
He's sitting in jail, and I'mjust saying this because people
will start following, Jesus.
They'll make the commitment.
It doesn't mean you're not gonnahave struggles in this, uh, in
this world, and you just need toknow that.
But John the Baptist is sittingin jail, and if you recall in,
(29:26):
uh, Luke seven 19, he's sittingin jail and he summons two of
his disciples and he sends themto ask Jesus, Luke seven 19, are
you the one to come or should welook for another, you know, in
my words, it's more like, youknow, I mean.
I know who you are, Jesus.
And it's not that I don'tbelieve you, but I could use a
little reassurance right nowbecause things aren't going.
(29:48):
That well for me, and Jesuswasn't bothered by the doubt.
So what I'm saying to anybodyout there, if, if you have
doubt, it's it, it's natural.
We're all going to have it.
But Jesus replied, uh, so hereplied to the messengers.
Go back and report to John whatyou have seen and heard the
blind see the lame walk.
The leopards are cleansed.
(30:10):
The deaf here, the dead areraised and the good news is
proclaimed to the poor.
The point is, if you've startedfollowing Jesus for the first
time, if you're having thisrevival, things like doubt, that
will, that will creep in.
Everybody's had it, but Jesustells us, trust in the Lord with
(30:30):
all your heart.
And Proverbs, 3, 5, 6, the Bibletells us, trust in the Lord with
all your heart.
Do not lean on your ownunderstanding and in all your
ways acknowledge him and he willmake your path straight.
So even if you have doubt, it'snatural.
Stay in the faith.
Keep reading the Bible.
(30:51):
Keep reading the word of God andyou're on your way to, to peace
and joy.
Rich (30:57):
Absolutely, man.
Well said Pat.
Pat (31:00):
Well, I tell you what, let's leave it there and, uh,
it's good to see it.
Now you've got to go back downand put, uh, some furniture
together, rich.
I tried to help.
See, I'm trying, you'reanalyzing me, but I'm trying to
help you.
You, you know, you, you knowyou're gonna walk down and tell
Shireen, pat went a little longwinded.
'cause my wife tells me I talktoo much.
(31:21):
I know.
You go down.
Yeah.
You know these SouthernAmericans can't ever shut up.
So Yeah, man.
I'll make you.
That, that's now, that's anotherpart of being married.
You always make it your friend'sfault.
Use your friends to collectmoney.
You use your friends to get outof things.
People call me up, Hey, do youwant to, do you want to go
(31:42):
hunting?
I, I wanna go sit in a deerstand at four o'clock in the
morning, freezing my behind off.
I'm like, no, I got my wife.
If you, you know, if any, if afriend ever bought loaned, did
you ever loan money to a friend?
And you want to get it back, butyou don't wanna ask.
You say, uh, hey Bobby, uh, thatcouple of hundred, couple of
hundred pounds you owe me.
(32:03):
I'm not really worried about it,but Reen has been on me.
I'm just, anyway, you, anyway,you could get this back my way.
'cause I'm just, I'm taking alot of heat at home.
So you, you good, you,
Rich (32:18):
you use the why Richard?
Yeah, I will.
Don't worry.
Uh, that bit, that bit.
Actually, I'm good with, youknow, I, I, I run, I run my own
business, pat, so that's a skillthat I learned a little while
ago.
That one know what I read.
Yeah.
So,
Pat (32:30):
well, when you were younger, you ended up getting
stabbed because you, as wediscussed in an earlier episode,
you didn't.
That what you didn't choose theright way to collect the money
back then.
Anything that doesn't end upwith you bleeding, Richard,
that's what I'm trying
Rich (32:43):
to help you with.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, I think sometimes if I hadthis skill set now and went back
and tried to live that life,would I do better at it?
But that's a, that's a, that's adifferent kind of podcast Pat,
Pat (32:54):
uh, you know, that, that's just how the mind works.
There are occasionally, I lookback when I was 19, I was like,
you know, I could have been abetter drug dealer.
Now that I know how to manage mymoney better, thank God, uh,
Jesus has delivered us from allof that.
So, anyway, good to talk to you.
Uh, and I hope, our growingfamily out there that's
(33:14):
listening of believers, I gotsomething from this today.
So Rich, I will see you nexttime.
We are going to talk about,actually, since we were talking
about doubt, we're going to talkabout the blessings of struggle
and struggle is some of thebiggest blessings you can have
and we'll discuss it in our nextepisode.
So, uh, we will see you rich.
See you next time and seeeverybody out there.
(33:36):
God bless you.
Rich (33:38):
Thanks Pat.
Take care.
Bye.
and welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast.
I am comedian and recoveringidiot, pat McCool.
And now across the AtlanticOcean to London, England, to
world renowned psychotherapistand addiction specialist and
former member of the British BoyBand, Toby and the Towel Boys,
(00:45):
Richard Terrell.
Rich (00:47):
Well, that is quite an intro, pat.
I not, uh, it does, doesn'thappen often, but I'm almost
lost for words.
Um, hello Pat.
Nice to see you.
Pat (00:55):
How, how are things going in London today?
Rich (00:58):
Good.
It's kind of like cool.
And, but we haven't had anyrain, which is nice.
Our summer's very much over.
But yeah.
Good.
Just, uh, as you know,assembling flat pack furniture
today.
Um, or should I say my fiance iscurrently assembling flat pack
furniture.
I'm in here talking to you.
Um, I feel like I kind of gotthe better end of that deal,
(01:19):
really.
Um, that's happy, but yeah.
Pat (01:21):
Good man blessed you.
You have to establish traditionsas you're, uh, as you're, as
you're starting to, as you'regetting married, you gotta kinda
lay down, let her, you know, actlike I'm gonna come help you
with this, but I got somethingto do.
And then you kind of kill asmuch time as you can to try to
get the furniture established.
That's how you get out of doingstuff.
And when you do get, you know,get married, I know as we've
(01:44):
said, you had to go at itbefore, but like the first time
you do the dishes.
Break something.
If you'll just break somethingone time, she'll never let you
do it again.
Then when you go do the laundry,get one of her good blouses.
It's gonna cost you a few bucks,but get a good blouse and, and
maybe a white one, and mix itwith some red colors.
Rich (02:04):
Okay,
Pat (02:04):
wash it.
It's gonna ruin the blouse, butthat's it.
There'll be no more laundry forRichard from that point.
Lemme want this
Rich (02:12):
down Pat, hang on.
I'm just looking for a pen.
Any,
Pat (02:15):
any tips I can, any tips that I can get you, but that you
just, that right there, you'llhave to buy our new blouse.
Maybe some flowers and a candleto go with it, but you won't be
doing that anymore.
It's a
Rich (02:24):
worthwhile investment.
Yeah.
The truth is Pat, she's actuallymuch better at that stuff than
I'm, I'm a therapist so I cantalk to her while she's doing
it, about how she feels, whatmight be coming up.
Oh, I see.
If there's anything fromchildhood that, that this, you
know, like is similar to whatkind of patterns of behavior of
ot.
Tara angry, she feels at me forasking her these questions while
she's assembling the furniture.
(02:45):
But yeah, that I, I'm, it's not,it's not in my, in my wheelhouse
really.
That sort of stuff.
Stuff.
Yeah,
Pat (02:51):
excellent.
You're, you're already workingthe angles and life is all about
the angles, so thank you.
Okay.
Uh, well, today we, we want tocover the spiritual awakening
and revival, which we had on tapto do, but then again, um, but
then we had the tragic death ofCharlie Kirk here in America,
and we obviously wanted to, uh,briefly talk about that.
(03:14):
What I'm curious about is thereaction in the uk.
I saw some things online thatthere was.
A big memorial, for him.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
Can you just give us an idea on,uh, I, you know, I didn't know
he was even known in the uk Sois, was he known in the UK or
what's the reaction there?
Rich (03:35):
Yeah, so obviously he had a big, um, presence on social
media.
Certainly my, my other half waslike very, very aware of him,
was very shocked and saddenedby, by his death.
Um, I think amongst youngpeople, obviously they spend a
lot of time on Instagram, sothat, you know, and there's, as
we'll get into, there's thiskind of resurgence or, you know,
like revival of faith inhappening in our country too.
(03:57):
So like people were definitelyaware there was a vigil.
For him held.
Um, in London there was a marchas well, but PE the march was
actually not about him.
People speculate that attendancein that Inc at that increased
because of his death.
(04:19):
Um, but it was actuallyorganized by like a, a separate
kind of political, um, whateveryou'd call it, commentator or,
you know, figure.
Um, so there, there wasn't, youknow, it, it circulated on, on
social media that there was 3million people marched in London
for Charlie Kirk.
That that absolutely wasn'ttrue.
There was a march.
Numbers have been debated, splitbetween a hundred and 500,000,
(04:41):
but that was actually a, aseparate thing.
But yeah, like some, someimpact.
Definitely.
Like my pastor, pastor, he, heactually wasn't aware of who
Charlie Kirk was.
'cause he, he, he describeshimself as a bit of a kind of
social media, like recluse, youknow, so he wasn't aware.
So, yeah, he was nothing likethe figure he is sadly was of
(05:03):
course in the States, but yeah,it had it, it had impact over
here for sure.
Pat (05:09):
Yeah, I thought the 3 million, you know, people glob
onto those things.
I didn't think that was true.
That's why I was kind ofcurious.
So that was another rally, butyou think since it was, it was
maybe faith-based that, that didincrease the turnout?
Uh, yeah.
I didn't think 3 million people,3 million people is, is a large
percentage of.
Great.
Brilliant.
Rich (05:30):
That would, I mean, we've got about 80 million, but like
the population of London itselfis 8 million.
So 3 million people on thestreets of London would, um, it
would be difficult not to noticethat because the city would
grind to a halt.
Um, but it was a politicalrally.
Um.
Obviously not gonna get into allof that, but it was not, um, it
(05:50):
was not Charlie Kirk, it was notaround Charlie Kirk, but there
was a vigil for it, which was,had a, a, a big attendance.
I don't know the number, butthere was a vigil.
Pat (05:59):
The fact that there was a big vigil, uh, is Charlie Kirk
is kind of surprising.
And I, I think it led to, youknow, we were talking about
spiritual, uh, awakening andrevival in America also, you
know, the message board.
I'm always talking about that.
I go on the sports messageboard.
Uh, I was really surprised tosee people that were talking
(06:20):
about, I'm going to church.
This, you know, it, it had a bigimpact on people and it, it did
make a difference.
I, I saw something online, uh,and this was true in America, a
woman in Massachusetts.
Her and her husband are on theirway to work and she says, oh my
gosh, look at this.
And she said, my, my husbandjust told me to look up and they
(06:40):
had turned the corner towardsthe main road leading to the
church and it was packed.
And she said, it is never likethis.
'cause you know, I lived up inNew York, I lived in New Jersey,
and, and churches just don't getthat kind of a attendance.
You have a lot of Catholicchurches, you have mass, but
nothing like that.
So it did cause a really big,uh.
(07:04):
Spiritual awakening or revival,which we'll discuss in a minute.
But, you know, the thing is it,you know, obviously had an
impact on me.
I was devastated.
I didn't really follow him, uh,hugely.
I knew who he was.
But, you know, one thing Ilearned is I started watching
videos and, and, and, andlistening was, he was an example
to me because.
(07:25):
You know, I'm a person that's,you know, can be quick to get
angry.
I don't display that to people,but, um, he never met, you know,
anger with anger.
He never insulted people., Henever did.
He just didn't do that.
If you ever look, he was aboutopen dialogue.
He was about, I'm, I'm gonnadiscuss my faith and I'm not
going to insult you.
(07:46):
Matter of fact, the only time,only video I've ever seen of him
where he, he was displaying any.
You know, looked, kind of gothis dander up was when a,
another professed Christian hadcome to the microphone and was
mad at him because of therespect and platform that he was
giving to this LGBT person.
And what, what that he wasdebating, you know, he, he was
(08:08):
having a conversation with himand he was giving a platform,
being very kind, veryunderstanding.
And then this person that wassaying he was a Christian was
taking him to task for it and hegot his dander up a little bit
and was like, this is not howJesus.
You know, response.
Rich (08:23):
Absolutely, man.
Absolutely.
And look, I, I wasn't aware ofhim not until, until literally
like the news came out that he'dbeen shot.
Right.
But, um, you know, from what Isee, a very clever young man,
very passionate about his faith,full of love, like one or two
things that.
(08:43):
Uh, you know, there was a coupleof things that I found like him
having said that, like don'tnecessarily like a hundred
percent align with my views, butnot very much.
Like, not very much.
And he was like, you know, hewas clearly like a, he was a man
of God, you know, and he was,you know, and he brave, you
know, and fearless and kind and,um.
Sad man.
Do you know what I mean?
(09:03):
And regardless of any of thatstuff we got, like for me it's
like regardless of where any ofus, where anyone sits, right?
And like Jesus tells us to loveeveryone, love our neighbors,
love our enemies.
You know, like you, you know,like in fact says actually, if
you just love the people that.
You like, right.
Then what have you act, what areyou actually doing for me?
You know, that's kinda what hesays, right?
And, um, but like we, we need tolive in a society where people
(09:26):
can express themselves and notget shot in the neck.
You know, like that's as, it'sas simple as that, man, you
know, for me that's like, youknow, one of the corner, you
know, the cornerstones of livingin a, in, in a free society, you
know, like, yeah.
Pat (09:41):
That's the example that Jesus taught us.
And, and that's what I kind oflearned from it.
Listen, I'm like, I don't dothat.
I, I, you know, I can getirritated at somebody or Jesus
just didn't.
Teach us to, to do that, youknow, have your opinions, but
treat people civilly, treatpeople with respect.
And he was, uh, he was quite theexample and he looks like he may
(10:03):
end up having a much biggerimpact, unfortunately, in, in
his passing.
Then, and I, like, I don'treally, I don't know why, but
the word death, it's always inpassing.
Especially if someone's afollower of Jesus because he is
passing on to a, to a greatplace.
But the legacy that he's leavingis the spiritual awakening and,
and revival that's making adifference.
(10:24):
And if people pay attention,like myself, I learned, I
started realizing.
You know, I don't always actthat way.
I don't always, you know, Imean, I, I don't outwardly do
it, but I start thinking andgetting, you know, you start
getting your dander up, but just'cause somebody disagrees with
you.
Um.
Jesus went out and talked anddebated and talked, and he kind
(10:45):
of acted the same way that, soCharlie Kirk really did emulate,
uh, as much as I've seen a humando, uh, Jesus Christ.
And
Rich (10:54):
yeah, and, and we were looking at my, you know, my, my
half and I were looking at likescripture and stuff and, you
know, there were times whereJesus got angry.
You know, there were times hegot passionate and there were
times he got frustrated with.
Like, you know, when he wouldspeak to the, um, to the
disciples, right?
And he was like, are you sodull?
You know, like, it's like he'ssaying, don't you get it yet?
(11:17):
You know?
Right.
And like when he heal, you know,when he healed in the Sabbath
and that like, you know, he was,he pushed back, you know, he had
some feelings about it, youknow, and, and, and so what we
kind of got to in our, in ourdiscussion, right, is, is.
Like, it's okay to have feel,you know, it's okay to have
feelings and to have passion andto, you know, even to veer into
(11:37):
like, you know, sometimesfeeling angry or frustrated,
right?
But love underpins it all, youknow, and it's that, you know,
that scripture about, you know,if you haven't got, you know,
you can know all the scripture,right?
You can like all of it, right?
You know, you can have the, youknow, you can prophecy, you can,
you know, speak in tongues, youcan do all of those things,
right?
But like, if you haven't gotlove.
(11:59):
You are just a clanging symbol,you know, it's like, it's, you
know, and it like, it's, it'sempty, you know?
And that, so that's the, youknow, you know, Charlie was
clearly like, passionate,committed, you know, very brave.
Like a, you know, I think to sitin a room, you know, a hall or
whatever, a stadium with peoplekind of, who don't want to come
(12:21):
and, you know, many of'em aregonna be kind of angry with you
and stuff like that.
Right.
But he was, but you can see itwas all underpinned with love.
And that's really something, youknow, that's really something.
I, I know that Louis CS Lewisand, um, Rick Warren in the
Purpose Driven Life book, nowthey talk about dressing up like
(12:42):
Christ, you know, like clothingourselves, like him, you know,
trying to be, trying to em to,as you, the word you used
emulate him, you know?
And, um, you know, Charlotte,you know.
Don't want to put him up as somekind of deity, but he definitely
emulated that stuff in a waythat was very public and very
(13:02):
committed and very passionate.
Pat (13:06):
That's why he had such an impact.
And um, back to our main topic,the spiritual awakening.
He has certainly.
Poured fuel on that fire, butit's actually been going on for
a, a while now.
And also in the UK and also inin America.
It made me start looking at someof these numbers.
Mm-hmm.
A lot is going on, uh, with GenZ.
(13:28):
I don't know what all the gen,the, I don't know what all the.
The, uh, generations aresupposed, you know what I mean?
I just found out, I alwaysthought I was a baby boomer.
They blame everything in Americaon baby boomers.
Uh, but I think I'm, I'msupposed to be part of a Jones
generation.
We were a little too late forWoodstock, but, you know, which
is kind of sad for me'cause Ireally wanted to be a hippie,
(13:49):
but they weren't there.
You know,
Rich (13:52):
you've grown, you've got a hair, you've grown your hair,
right.
Well, I've got the,
Pat (13:56):
yeah, that's, that's my, as you diagnosed me, uh, you know,
a number of episodes back wasmy, was my, was my rebelling
because my dad was an armycolonel and, and my dad would
take us to get a haircut.
I mean, I, I look like a, and itwas this flat top.
My hair was so flat that I couldcarry my books to school on my
(14:19):
head.
And then I'm, we moved from ArmyPost when we came to
Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
We're in this civilian town, andI walk into my fourth grade
class wearing a Mickey Mouset-shirt, and all of the kids in
there look like the Beatles and,and I look like a drill
sergeant.
You know, so I always takeWelcome.
Yeah,
Rich (14:39):
good.
Start off to a good start.
Yeah.
Pat (14:42):
Yeah.
So you, it just kind of stuckwith me.
I'm like, I'm, I'm, you know,once I get a chance, I'm growing
this stuff out.
Even though when I was in thecorporate world, I had to get
the dash a, but my dad used toactually, uh, not to get off
topic when we lived in a placecalled Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
I mentioned this in my book.
My dad would take us, there wasa prison, a federal prison, and
(15:02):
a military prison.
And my dad on, on base.
You could get your hair cut forlike a dollar, but if you went
out to the prison, they had thisannex where these shops on the
outside of the prison wherethese prisoners were.
We're, you know, learningtrades, woodworking, whatever,
cutting hair.
And he would take us out to getour hair cut'cause he could save
(15:24):
50 cents.
And the guy Richard, cutting myhair was shackled to the floor.
And there's a, there was a guyover in the corner with an M 16.
You know, I don't know ifthere's a lot, but he's holding
this M 16 and the guy shackledthe four, this guy's got a, you
know, he's sitting back behindme with, I dunno if he's doing
life or whatever.
(15:44):
I'm like, geez, dad, 50 cents.
Really?
Just to get this bur cut overhere.
Rich (15:49):
Yeah.
So, uh, I feel, I feel like weare like, it's each episode past
this we shedding more light onlike the kind of trauma and, you
know, what, like what left, whatled you to go off the rails
path.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, we, I'm just gonna put thatin my clinical notes.
Pat (16:05):
Yeah.
Uh, basically I'm, I'm, I getoff here and go, yeah.
I'm tricking Richard intothinking we're trying to help
people experience the fullnessand joy of Jesus, but I'm really
getting some free therapy out ofthis.
I couldn't afford, I couldn'tafford this in my life to I get
off, think I'm learning a lotabout myself, but, um.
But yeah, in the, spiritualawakening and revival, which is
(16:25):
taking place, there are actuallytwo different things and people
confuse the two.
Revival is obviously restoringsomething.
It's bringing something back.
It's something that was there.
So when you're seeing the churchparking lots in many cases fill
back up, they are, they're, it'sa revival.
You know, we've, I've seen ithappen in America quite a bit.
(16:46):
There was a, the Zuzu street,uh, revival in Los Angeles.
If you ever Google that, thatwas a pretty amazing thing.
And I know there was a, a pastornamed John Kirkpatrick that was
involved in one in Brownsville,Texas.
It's a world revival and peopleare just coming back and coming
back to the faith.
You're restoring a spiritualawakening.
(17:07):
You're not restoring, you'recoming to learn it.
You're yourself, you're comingto, to Jesus for the first time.
You're learning the truth.
You're kind, so you end up atthe same place.
But they are kind of twodifferent things.
So, uh, and you and I have bothexperienced that.
And we just want to talk a, youknow, a little bit about for
(17:28):
people that are coming to faithfor the first time.
'cause I know a lot of peoplethat are, that listen to this
podcast are the first time,whether you're somebody that's
in, uh, addiction or, uh, youknow, what, you know, whatever's
bringing you back to the faith.
You know, whatever's bringingyou to Jesus for the first time.
We want to use all of ourexperiences and, you know, we
(17:50):
get our, uh, not expertise, weget what we have by, we did it
all wrong the first time andwe've made all the mistakes.
So hopefully people can learnfrom ours.
And people need to understand ifyou're in the revival or
spiritual awakening, if you'refollowing Jesus, there's a great
scripture of John 1516 thatpeople need to realize.
(18:11):
God chose you.
Jesus chose you.
It says You did not choose me,but I chose you and appointed
you that you should go and bearfruit, and that your fruit
should remain, that whatever youask of the father and my name,
he may give it to you.
So anybody listening.
That is filling the spiritualrevival.
(18:34):
That is having the spiritualawakening.
Remember, God chose you like hechose me.
And Richard, he chose you.
And when you.
End up giving your life to Jesuswhen you end up following Jesus.
Because Richard and I, if you'velistened to other episodes, we,
I think we, we both think I, Ithink I'm fair to speak for you,
(18:56):
that we started following God.
We started a belief, but wedidn't, you know, completely
accept Jesus till time came, youknow, till along the line.
We started following God, thingsstarted changing.
At least that was the.
That was the case in, um, in mylife.
Like the example that I gave, inmy book where I'm, I had been a
(19:18):
believer.
You know, I prayed the sinner'sprayer and accepted Jesus in my
mind.
But I hadn't given it all upuntil that day that I'm sitting
in church.
Do you, I don't know if yourecall, but there was a day that
I got up, my wife wasn't goingto church.
I went on my own.
That almost never happens.
'cause I, I'm a sli, I loveJesus, but I'm a slacker.
(19:39):
You know, if I get a chance to,oh, when we're not going, oh,
she's not feeling well this day.
I went, ended up sitting next tomy mother-in-law.
Um.
That was a very powerful momentbecause my mother-in-law was
just this huge person in mylife, just this huge spiritual
leader, and it was just soironic that I'm sitting next to
her that day and the pastorcomes in.
(20:00):
Now remember, I have been aChristian in my mind and I've
been a follower for years.
Uh, but on that particular day,the pastor starts giving the,
what you would call the altarcall.
He starts giving what we, youknow, we call the invitation in
churches in the south, and he,you know, anyone that needs to
get it, to give their life or,and I'm sitting there thinking,
(20:23):
Hey, you know, go ahead.
I'm, look, you know, can we getthis over with?
You know, I'm certainly notabout to stand up.
And then he gives theinvitation.
Nobody does.
He does it again.
He says, okay, somebody, there'ssomebody in here that needs to
remember I was going throughsome troubles, even though I had
followed, you know, was afollower of Jesus and.
I, again, I don't move.
(20:44):
I'm starting to get irritated.
I'm like, Don, come on.
Could we get this over with?
And then he get, but somethingis moving in me.
And then he finally does it ofthe third time he said, there's
somebody here and I'm notleaving until this happens.
And something came over me andas my mother-in-law recalls, my
hand shot straight up in theair.
(21:05):
I felt drenched in sweat and Ifelt something that kind of came
over me like no drug that I'dever had, and that was when I
really accepted Jesus and gaveit over to the Holy Spirit.
Because when you accept Jesus,when you sincerely accept Jesus,
you were filled with as much ofthe Holy Spirit as everybody as
(21:26):
the 500 on pen.
At Pentecost, people are alwayslike, I'm praying for more of
the holy.
You have it.
He gave it to you, it's up toyou how much you surrender to
it.
And that's kind of, that's whathappened to me on that
particular day where Isurrendered.
And really that's where I gotthe full peace, full joy that
(21:47):
really came into my life, eventhough I've been a believer all
those years.
And I'd just like to share thatwith people.
'cause I know people thatbelieve God and they pray the
sinner's prayer and you know,but they still don't get that,
that final piece.
Um.
But anyway, your your thoughtson that?
Rich (22:03):
Yeah, I mean, look, as, you know, just a minute or two,
like on that, like, yeah, sameexperience really, like was in
it, you know, believed in mymind, you know, like it made
sense to me.
It felt a heart shift.
Like I, yeah, like I knew thatthis is true, you know, is the
son of God.
Um, and then after sometroubles, like, but the first
(22:24):
inkling was this deep sense offorgiveness that I had.
I really felt it in my heart.
It's like I'm forgiven.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I am forgiven, right?
And, and then I realized howlittle I've forgiven myself.
And then, you know, that wasextremely powerful and healing
in its own right.
And then there was just this,this moment in church where the
pastor was the pastor always getpicked up and saying, pastor,
(22:46):
'cause I has spaghetti.
Pastor was say, was, was talkingabout adversity in Matthew.
You know, come to meet.
All of you are weary andburdened.
You know,'cause you know, my, myyoke is easy and my burden is,
is light.
Right?
And, and then he was, he wasamazing.
He's called Steven Foster.
He's um.
He's an amazing speaker.
(23:07):
Right?
Very passionate.
And, um, it took me a while towork out what it was about.
How when he spoke it spoke to meso much and I, I laterally
realized it was how much hebelieved it.
You know, when he talks, you cansee his face is red.
You can see the tears in hiseyes like he believes what he's
in, what he's saying.
'cause he's, he's preaching theword of God.
Right.
Simple as that, you know, he isa vessel.
But the way that that particularvessel believes in what he's
(23:29):
saying.
Anyway, he was talking aboutthis and, um.
And I just got walloped, man.
Just got hit with the, that,just that sense of love, man.
That deep abiding love.
And, and it's interesting thatthat verse you chose from, you
know, John 1516 actually, youknow, John 1517.
Very simple.
(23:49):
Yeah.
It's like, what, seven words,this is my command.
Love each other.
And, um, yeah.
But yeah, the revival, like, youknow, on that, so I, I, I looked
up some.
Some numbers.
So we've had a huge revival inGen Z, so more of our Gen Z
population in this country areattending church than ever have,
(24:13):
right?
Church attendance in thiscountry is up for the first time
in a long time.
You know, in the wake of CharlieKirk's death, we saw numbers
certainly in, I do two churcheson a Sunday.
I an addict, right?
One wouldn't be enough, right?
So there you go.
Um, yeah.
And um.
You know, like the, the numberswere up in numbers were clearly
(24:35):
up in both one's very small andintimate, which I really like.
There's more, and I get a goodsense of community there.
One's very big and bold andvibrant and, you know, amazing
worship, you know, very wellproduced, all that stuff.
But, um, yeah, numbers were up,man.
Do you know what I mean?
Numbers were up and actually atmy former church up in Oxford,
um.
(24:56):
They were talking about, they'vebeen talking about this for
months, actually, way, waybefore Charlie's death.
And, um, they were sayingsomething's happening.
You know, like, and Oxford'salways been a very spiritual
place.
CS Lewis experience had hisconversion experience there.
Right.
Um, there's a lot oftheological, uh, theological,
uh, college colleges there and,you know, there's a, there's a
(25:17):
lot that happens in that citywhere it's kind of a crossroads
for like.
You know, some of the mostamazing intellects in, in our,
in this world, right?
Like, and, um, anyway, so inOxford it's an aldates church.
Um, they were talking what,sorry?
It's a, what?
It's called St.
Aldates, St.
(25:38):
St.
Al Date's, the church is called.
And, um, he, like they weresaying that they, they were
having people just turn up, likesaying stuff like, I don't
really know what I'm doing here.
But like some, something like Ijust feel like I've got lead
here today.
And that was, no, it wasn't aone off like that was happening
like regularly.
And they had one service wherethey do four services on a
(26:00):
Sunday.
It's a very, you know, bigchurch and, um.
They in one service, they had 39people respond to that
invitation to the oracle.
You know, 39 people gave theirlives to Jesus in whitelock in
one service.
You know, so like something is afootman for sure.
And um, and I think that thesad, um, sad death and sad
(26:21):
murder of Charlie Kirk, his, um.
Has accelerated that, you know,and as tragic as it is, and you
know, obviously he's, you know,left behind a wife and kids and
stuff and it's awful.
But, you know, like it, it seemsto have added to something that
was already gaining place.
Um, and that can only be a goodthing.
(26:42):
Ultimately,
Pat (26:45):
definitely seemed to pour fuel on the fire and.
It's how God works.
I, I don't, you know, I'm notone of those, Hey, it's God's
plan.
When some to somebody who'spassed or who's died, I don't
really know, but it's made adifference in a lot of people's
lives.
And Yeah.
And, and add,
Rich (27:04):
sorry, pat, but it's like, you know, like, like he works
all things for good.
Right?
All things were good.
Uh, the scripture tells us that,you know, so, but yeah.
Sorry.
Go on, man.
Pat (27:14):
No, he has a, he has a plan and he.
You know, he uses something likethis.
If he probably knew CharlieKirk's date of passing on the
day.
Charlie Kirk was, uh, CharlieKirk was born.
And it has, it touched so manypeople and is probably gonna end
(27:36):
up with a lot of people aregoing to end up in heaven.
A lot of people following Jesusbecause of the life that he
lived and.
Um, we're having same numbers inthe United States that you are
in the UK and people coming backto church, people that are
becoming Christians on thatmessage board.
When there was a thread about,you know, after the Charlie
Kirk, people going to church,there were people that were
(27:58):
saying, well, you know, a fewmonths ago I just, I was feeling
empty in my life and, I didfollow Jesus, or I did go to
church, or I grew up.
Catholic, I grew up this, nowI'm following Jesus and I gave
my life.
And, and everything has changedand they're getting that full
peace and joy that you and I aretrying to help others find.
(28:19):
And so, you know, you just wantto help people along.
Give them any advice and tipsyou can.
And, and one thing I'd like tosay to, to any new converts, any
people that are.
Going through revival, you'regoing to have doubts also.
You're going to, it's justnatural that you'll have things
that doubt along the way.
And I just wanted to mentionthat one of the, um, one of the
(28:43):
things, if you remember thestory of John the Baptist, you
know, John the Baptist, lept inthe womb when Jesus came near,
he baptized, Jesus himself toldhis followers to stop following
him and to follow Jesus.
And he actually heard God'svoice, thunder from heaven
saying, this is my son.
Who am I?
Well pleased.
(29:03):
But then he had a moment ofdoubt where he found himself
sitting in a prison.
He's sitting in jail, and I'mjust saying this because people
will start following, Jesus.
They'll make the commitment.
It doesn't mean you're not gonnahave struggles in this, uh, in
this world, and you just need toknow that.
But John the Baptist is sittingin jail, and if you recall in,
(29:26):
uh, Luke seven 19, he's sittingin jail and he summons two of
his disciples and he sends themto ask Jesus, Luke seven 19, are
you the one to come or should welook for another, you know, in
my words, it's more like, youknow, I mean.
I know who you are, Jesus.
And it's not that I don'tbelieve you, but I could use a
little reassurance right nowbecause things aren't going.
(29:48):
That well for me, and Jesuswasn't bothered by the doubt.
So what I'm saying to anybodyout there, if, if you have
doubt, it's it, it's natural.
We're all going to have it.
But Jesus replied, uh, so hereplied to the messengers.
Go back and report to John whatyou have seen and heard the
blind see the lame walk.
The leopards are cleansed.
(30:10):
The deaf here, the dead areraised and the good news is
proclaimed to the poor.
The point is, if you've startedfollowing Jesus for the first
time, if you're having thisrevival, things like doubt, that
will, that will creep in.
Everybody's had it, but Jesustells us, trust in the Lord with
(30:30):
all your heart.
And Proverbs, 3, 5, 6, the Bibletells us, trust in the Lord with
all your heart.
Do not lean on your ownunderstanding and in all your
ways acknowledge him and he willmake your path straight.
So even if you have doubt, it'snatural.
Stay in the faith.
Keep reading the Bible.
(30:51):
Keep reading the word of God andyou're on your way to, to peace
and joy.
Rich (30:57):
Absolutely, man.
Well said Pat.
Pat (31:00):
Well, I tell you what, let's leave it there and, uh,
it's good to see it.
Now you've got to go back downand put, uh, some furniture
together, rich.
I tried to help.
See, I'm trying, you'reanalyzing me, but I'm trying to
help you.
You, you know, you, you knowyou're gonna walk down and tell
Shireen, pat went a little longwinded.
'cause my wife tells me I talktoo much.
(31:21):
I know.
You go down.
Yeah.
You know these SouthernAmericans can't ever shut up.
So Yeah, man.
I'll make you.
That, that's now, that's anotherpart of being married.
You always make it your friend'sfault.
Use your friends to collectmoney.
You use your friends to get outof things.
People call me up, Hey, do youwant to, do you want to go
(31:42):
hunting?
I, I wanna go sit in a deerstand at four o'clock in the
morning, freezing my behind off.
I'm like, no, I got my wife.
If you, you know, if any, if afriend ever bought loaned, did
you ever loan money to a friend?
And you want to get it back, butyou don't wanna ask.
You say, uh, hey Bobby, uh, thatcouple of hundred, couple of
hundred pounds you owe me.
(32:03):
I'm not really worried about it,but Reen has been on me.
I'm just, anyway, you, anyway,you could get this back my way.
'cause I'm just, I'm taking alot of heat at home.
So you, you good, you,
Rich (32:18):
you use the why Richard?
Yeah, I will.
Don't worry.
Uh, that bit, that bit.
Actually, I'm good with, youknow, I, I, I run, I run my own
business, pat, so that's a skillthat I learned a little while
ago.
That one know what I read.
Yeah.
So,
Pat (32:30):
well, when you were younger, you ended up getting
stabbed because you, as wediscussed in an earlier episode,
you didn't.
That what you didn't choose theright way to collect the money
back then.
Anything that doesn't end upwith you bleeding, Richard,
that's what I'm trying
Rich (32:43):
to help you with.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, I think sometimes if I hadthis skill set now and went back
and tried to live that life,would I do better at it?
But that's a, that's a, that's adifferent kind of podcast Pat,
Pat (32:54):
uh, you know, that, that's just how the mind works.
There are occasionally, I lookback when I was 19, I was like,
you know, I could have been abetter drug dealer.
Now that I know how to manage mymoney better, thank God, uh,
Jesus has delivered us from allof that.
So, anyway, good to talk to you.
Uh, and I hope, our growingfamily out there that's
(33:14):
listening of believers, I gotsomething from this today.
So Rich, I will see you nexttime.
We are going to talk about,actually, since we were talking
about doubt, we're going to talkabout the blessings of struggle
and struggle is some of thebiggest blessings you can have
and we'll discuss it in our nextepisode.
So, uh, we will see you rich.
See you next time and seeeverybody out there.
(33:36):
God bless you.
Rich (33:38):
Thanks Pat.
Take care.
Bye.
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