Ep 14: Laughter REALLY Does "Doeth Good Like a Medicine"

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Richard and Pat discuss a fascinating study done by Israeli researchers that showed physiological changes in the body based on what the subjects were exposed to. When exposed to humor the bodies macrophages - "the clean up crew" - of the blood attacked the bad bacterium. Conversely, when the subjects were exposed to negative stimuli like a horror movie, the bad bacterium attacked the good macrophages. They discuss the clinical, personal and biblical aspects of the results of the study, as well as the surprising impact a person's outlook and mood may have on not only loved ones in close proximity, but also those thousands of miles away. 

Episode Transcript

pat (00:23):
And welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast.
I'm comedian and lifelongrecovering Morron Pat McCool,
and all the way across the pondto London, England to.
Renowned and esteemedpsychotherapist and a Dixon
specialist, a man with royalblood coursing through his

(00:46):
veins, who is presently30,165,130.
Second in line to the Britishthrone, Richard Tull.
Hello, pat, Richard?
Yeah,

rich (01:00):
I didn't know he was talking about, at first I
thought maybe we had a thirdperson on the call.

pat (01:05):
No, no, that's you, man.
That's me.
I think like 30, you know, 30million in line.
If a plague ever hits Britain,you gotta fly to Mississippi.
Really?
You know, we gotta get you andShereen on a plane.
If you survive the plague andthat knocks out those 30 million
in front of you, we could bedoing the podcast in Bor Castle.

(01:26):
How cool would that be?

rich (01:28):
Yeah, that would be something, man.
Although if there's a plague.
You know, maybe, you know, itmight, it might be better if I
come to Mississippi, you know, Icome and hide, come and hide out
amongst the typhoons and thetrailers for safety.

pat (01:40):
That's what I said.
You're gonna come, you're gonnacome over here, we'll do the
moonshine and eat a jerky.
We might, we both might figureout how to hunt or something
while you're here.
Yeah,

rich (01:49):
yeah, yeah.
Ar

pat (01:50):
ar

rich (01:50):
fifteens.

pat (01:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, yeah.
The AR 15.
We'll get us a couple of ARfifteens and we'll go shooting,
man.
And, uh, and then you'll be, youknow, you, you'll have a little
experience, a little militaryexperience, so when you go back
and assume the throne, you know,you can, you can ride on your
military experience.
So, uh, how did the, uh, theprep, the preparation for the

(02:15):
wedding, you went shopping forthe suit.
Did you find a suit?
Yeah, got the

rich (02:17):
suit, got the suit today.
Went to look at rings, got someshoes, got a shirt.
You know, man, it's allhappening.
It's all happening.
I'm feeling

pat (02:26):
like you, you didn't follow my advice on naughty holder.
No,

rich (02:30):
no, no, no.
I did.
I didn't.
I didn't.
I've gotta be honest with you.

pat (02:34):
Yeah, yeah,

rich (02:35):
yeah.
Yeah.

pat (02:37):
For those of you that are listening, uh, I suggested that
he go with a bold look.
And, and I picked out NaughtyHolder, which was the lead
singer of the Rock Band Sladefrom the late sixties, early
seventies.
And Slade was a great group.
They wrote, uh, come on, feelthe noise.
Uh, my mama we're all crazy.

(02:59):
Now Quiet, right?
Cover those, but Slade actuallydid it and Nty Holder was the
lead singer and he had theseventies look, and I'm thinking
Richard could bring back if hewould be bold enough to, in the
wedding we got some plaid, wegot bell bottoms, we got big
little pedals.

rich (03:16):
Well, I've gotta say there is a slight nod to naughty
holder right in that my suit hasa very faint check in it.
So your, your advice, yoursuggestions, you know, your, um,
almost fatherly guidance.
Yeah.
Like, and you know, I'm alwayslooking for a father figure,
pat, do you know what I mean?

(03:37):
Yeah,

pat (03:37):
yeah.
Like,

rich (03:37):
like it, it didn't land on deaf ears, you know, so I just,
you know, I want to acknowledgethat.
You, um, you, you have authorityto speak into my life.
And, um, my heart is spelling,

pat (03:48):
I'm make, I'm making an impact.
And that's all I'm trying to do.

rich (03:51):
Always Pat, always making an impact, man.

pat (03:54):
Just, just, just kind settle it in there.
I just, I like making adifference and, and, and you're
the guy, so that's excellent.
I can't wait to see the weddingpicture.
So, uh, without further ado,let's get to our, uh, were you
about to say something?

rich (04:09):
No, no, no, no.

pat (04:11):
Um, let's get to our topic today.
Our topic today is actually oneof my favorite subjects, which
is laughter, which, um, comeseasy for me'cause one of my
life's main mottoes is I'm notgiving up immaturity without a
fight.
So it comes easy to me.
But what we're gonna do is Iwanna read this article that was

(04:33):
posted that's very interesting.
That was posted by a good friendof mine, Dr.
Beverly Smallwood.
Now, um, Dr.
Beverly Smallwood is apsychologist, well-known
psychologist here inHattiesburg.
I only hang out with reallywell-known.
She's a bit a bit of a localcelebrity here.
She's also the author of.

(04:56):
The book on grief.
This was not supposed to happento me.
10, make or break choices whenlife steals your dreams and
rocks your world.
And she's somebody who has hadher world rocked and she is the
epitome of, uh.
If someone asked me, give me anexample of a follower of Jesus

(05:18):
Christ and how you're supposedto do it, I would take you and
introduce you to Dr.
Beverly Smallwood.
She never has a bad word to sayto anybody.
I've never seen her angry.
You know, unlike somebody likemyself, I, I try to be a good
follower of Jesus, but I canlose it.
Go off on you in a, in a NewYork second, and then I'll go

(05:42):
back and ask for forgiveness andprobably even apologize to the
person that I go off on.
But this person, BeverlySmallwood, is just a, uh, Dr.
Beverly Smallwood is just anencourager, a lifter upper, and
she's writing a book on anger,and I'd love to have her on to
discuss it when it comes out.
But anyway, I just wanted togive her, credit for posting
this particular article.

(06:03):
But let me.
Let me read this.
Uh, and I find this veryinteresting.
It was an article written inYour Minds on Facebook, and it
says, in Israel, scientistsconducted a remarkable study, a
single drop of a participant'sblood was placed under a
microscope and projected on ascreen.

(06:24):
What they saw was captivatingbacteria, slowly moving around
and microphages, am Ipronouncing that right?
I think so.

rich (06:32):
Yeah.

pat (06:32):
Mi Microphages, the cleanup crew of the blood was just lying
dormant.
The bacteria were wanderingfreely as if on a peaceful
evening stroll the microphagesfast asleep, ignoring their job
entirely.
Then something unexpectedhappened.
The participant was shown afunny movie, and as their mood

(06:53):
lifted, the microphages suddenlywoke up.
One of them rolled over to anearby bacterium and started
devouring it with realenthusiasm.
This wasn't lunchtime.
This was science, so thatcleanup crew and the blood that
divides the, the bacteria wokeup and just started cleaning out

(07:13):
the blood and started gettingthe bacterium out.
The takeaway there was our mooddirectly influences our immune
cells.
Here's the twist.
The blood sample had beenseparated from the participant
and was in a different room.
Somehow the change in theparticipant's emotional state
affected the blood at a distancewhen researchers switched.

(07:36):
To horror film clips, theopposite happened.
The bacteria became energized,multiplied rapidly, and even
started attacking themicrophages, forcing them to
retreat.
Takeaway.
The state of our consciousnessplays a critical role in
maintaining our inner ecosystem,and it doesn't stop with us.
Since our relatives share ourbloodline, our emotional states

(07:59):
can influence their immunesystems too, even across
continents.
This is what some call familyimmunity.
A watchmaker once shared a storywhenever his left index finger
would start twitching, makinghis delicate work impossible, he
wouldn't massage it or takesupplements.
He'd call his mother thousandsof kilometers away and say, mom,

(08:20):
you're worrying again.
Stop it.
I can't work like this.
Even mild maternal anxiety wasenough to affect his physiology.
And the takeaway, the oldsaying, it's my life will do
what I want, is outdated.
Our mental state impacts notjust our health, but the
wellbeing of those we love.

(08:41):
So find ways to cultivate joy,laughter, and inner harmony, not
just for yourself, but for yourentire immune tribe.
PS this reminds us of NormanCousins who famously healed from
a terminal illness throughlaughter.
His story told in anatomy ofillness in 1976 showed that
positive emotions can activatethe body's healing systems.

(09:04):
Turns out laughter is the best.
Medicine isn't just a saying,it's physiology.
What do you make of that,Richard?
And, and do you, go ahead.

rich (09:16):
Yeah,

pat (09:16):
I

rich (09:16):
mean, it's a fascinating bit of research.
Um.
Yeah, I mean that idea thatlaughter is the best medicine
is, um, you know, it kind ofbacks that up, doesn't it?
I mean, what, what I would sayin terms of the family, like the
links between like familymembers, you know, we know
about, like, we know aboutthings like intergenerational
trauma.
We, you know, we know that weknow what happens in another

(09:38):
generation can impact ongeneration beneath them, and
then that gets carried on to thegeneration between them.
So sometimes think somethingI'll do with clients is do
what's called a genogram.
You map out kind of like afamily tree, and then you'll see
patterns of mental illness,addiction, physical illness,

(09:58):
relationship struggles like, youknow, like divorce, adultery,
you know, all of those kind ofthings.
You'll, you'll, you'll see thosekind of replicated again and
again.
Through the generations.
And this adds another like angleto explain that.
You know, it's like if, iffamily members can impact each

(10:19):
other in this very biological,scientific way, then it kind of
adds another layer ofunderstanding to how these
patterns play out, you know,over and over, you know?
So I think it's fascinating, butI mean, I guess the takeaway.
Really for like us asindividuals and, and certainly

(10:39):
as like clinicians working withpeople trying to, you know, find
their way out of difficultmental states or difficult
patterns of behavior is actuallyjust how important laughter is.
So I know that, um, when someoneis able to laugh at, like, say
someone has, um, a personalitydisorder would be a good idea.

(11:00):
Would a, a good example.
Like when you start tounderstand.
The symptoms of that and thethoughts, feelings, behaviors
that come with that as comingfrom this, you know, out of this
condition or this diagnosis orwhatever you wanna call it, and
to be able to start to findhumor in that and to laugh at
that.
You know, I like to, you know,rather than it being a very

(11:22):
serious, heavy, ethical thingto, to live with, you know,
there can be real healing inthat.
You know, it just allows one, abit of freedom, you know?
So, yeah, I mean, I think it'sa, like I said, fascinating bit
of research.
Um, she sounds like afascinating lady.
You know, I'd love to meet hersometime, pat.
Um, yeah, laughter's reallyimportant, basically, I guess in

(11:44):
a nutshell.

pat (11:46):
Yeah, you reminded me of something, um, when you were
talking about,'cause just likewith my wife, I, you know, when,
when, when we've gone throughstruggles, you know, our last
episode was on struggles.
We just always laugh.
I mean, at the end of like,what, whatever carnage or
whatever, something happened atthe end of the day, we'd just
sit down.

(12:06):
Look at the absurdity.
One.
One in our case comes fromtrusting God.
If you're trusting in God andtrusting in Jesus, you always
feel like you have this safetynet around you.
You know?
So maybe that's where it kept.
Maybe that's where it comesfrom, where we can just have
that laughter.
But uh, but I remember one timeher mother said, I have never
heard anybody laugh like youguys, y'all are, no matter what

(12:28):
the circumstances.
Now part of it, you know, isI'm.
Somewhat of a lifelong fool.
And like I said, I'm not givingup immature without a fight,
but, but my wife just sees thehumor and everything and it just
changes and it just lifts, youknow, lifts your spirits.
By the same token, if I, if Iwake up in the morning and Gwen

(12:50):
is, is yelling at the dogs,which is easy to do because we
have the most obnoxious dog dogsin the neighborhood.
Uh, if she's in a bad mood aboutsomething.
It kind of affects me.
The whole, the whole atmospherekinda gets a little, little
grumbly up there.
Uh, so I think a lot of that hasa lot to, uh, a lot to do with
what you're talking about.

(13:11):
When I read this, I immediatelythought of you, I wondered if
Richard uses this, you know,kind of in his practice.
It turns out you kind of domaybe in a, you're not stating
it that way, but in a, in adifferent way.
So I thought, you know, what'sthe clinical.
Uh, application to laughter andseeking out laughter and joy.
And also there's a personal, andthen there's also a biblical,

(13:36):
which I'm going to give some,scriptures when we finished.
But in the, um, the personal,that guy at the end of the
article was talking abouthealing from a personal, from a,
a, uh, a terminal illness.
I don't know if that.
I don't know the particulars onthat and the veracity of it, but
I remember once going to ameeting when I was an executive

(13:58):
in the insurance business and Iwas sick, I had some kind of
Hong Kong whammy.
I mean, I'm coughing.
I'm just really feelinghorrible.
But I had to go to the meeting,you know, uh, that is.
So I get there the first day,I'm very sick, goes through to
the second day, I'm sick allthrough the day.
In the evening we hadentertainment and we had a
comedian named Jerry Farber, uh,Southern comedian.

(14:21):
And I went and started watchingand this guy was great and, and
he just killed, and I laughed sohard and I walked out of the
meeting and went back to my roomand I kid you not, but I was
completely healed.
I mean, even the cough was gone.
It wasn't just a mood change.
I was just, I went to sleep thatnight.
I wasn't sweating anymore.

(14:42):
I didn't have a fever, but Ihad, I had literally laughed my
way out of, of.
Whatever, you know, illness ormalady that, that I had.
So that's real.
That can really happen.
I'm not saying you can justlaugh your way outta curing
illnesses, but that happenedwith me for sure.
I remember a woman after a showone night came up.

(15:04):
And she was telling me that sheloved the show and laughed,
blah, blah, blah.
But she said her husband hadbeen sick for a long time and
she said he didn't want to come,but she said, Hey, let's go to
the comedy show.
Let's go to the comedy showshow.
And she said he laughed so hardthat he's had a smile on his
face and he's standing there.
She said, look at him.
She said he this, he has notsmiled in months.

(15:26):
And now he's got a big smile onhis face and seems to be, uh.
In, in a much better mood.
So I'm thinking there's a lotto, you know, laughing and not
just that, but having the joyfulattitude.
It seems like in a, in our, ourpersonal lives, it can make an
awful lot of difference, butit's just making a choice, you

(15:50):
know, of looking at theabsurdity.
You said something a minute agoabout, uh, I, I can't remember
what you said, but it was likenoticing.
The humor in things as opposedto to noticing.
Go ahead.
What were you gonna say?

rich (16:06):
Yeah, so you can, like, what I might do when it's
appropriate, if I like workingwith someone is, you know, you,
you can be a little bit playful,you can be a little bit jokey,
you know, then you can helppeople notice that actually, you
know, when a little bit of humoris allowed into the room.

(16:27):
Then it can, it can shift moodstate, you know?
It can be a distraction, youknow, but, and also play is,
play is like a really importantpart of therapy.
You know, like learning topeople help, excuse me.
Learning to help people play,laugh, joke, you know, there's
something that happens withinthat kind of free child.

(16:50):
Spontaneous, playful, joyful.
State that can be very healing,you know?
And, you know, I guess on a,like a personal note, you know,
like, um, whilst when we sittogether, pat, like obviously
you see like a kind of very, um,you know, hopefully quite kind
of righteous and professionaland knowledgeable kind man.

(17:13):
Whilst this may come as somesurprise to you and anyone
that's listening to us, like,I'm actually not the easiest
person to live with.
Right.
And, uh, you know, I've gotsome, some defects and some
shortcomings and, you know, someareas that are struggling and,
and, and sometimes me and, youknow, my other half and I
Shereen will be like workingtowards, you know, taking some.
Serious steps down the roadtowards an argument, you know?

(17:34):
And, and then we just laughabout it, you know, something
will happen and it makes uslaugh and it just all of a
sudden, like nothing, you know,whatever it is you're arguing
about, you know, who said what?
And like, you know, who, whomisunderstood this and who did
that?
And what did you mean by thatand why did you say it?
Just all just seems so much lessimportant.
In fact, earlier this week wewere like, you know, on our way

(17:54):
to a bit of a vicar or whatever,and, um, I, I was so.
Up with what I felt like Ineeded to say.
You know what she needed tounderstand.
But I was eating my corn flakes,right?
And I was that consumed, like Ireally needed to say this thing
that I tried to say with amouthful of Corn Flakes and all
this milk and corn flakessprayed out, you know, and we

(18:17):
both just cracked up laughing.
And then that was, and that wasthat.
And it's like, look, I'm sorrybabe.
You know?
And, and yeah.
It's, it's a really, it's apowerful and important thing.
I never knew about it from thatperspective, you know, kind of
like deep microscopic level.
But that, that research, um.
Evidences.
But, um, but yeah, it's such animportant thing and it's such an

(18:38):
important part of life, isn'tit?
You know, to be able to laugh,you know,

pat (18:44):
maybe something that, uh, you think about, you know, as
you go along.
I mean, I know, you know, we, Ijoke with you about your, you
know, y'all, you're just nowstarting to get married.
I've been married 35 years.
I wear that like a badge ofhonor because I, I messed up
everything.

rich (18:59):
Married?

pat (19:00):
What's that?

rich (19:02):
You wrote like a me don't you like Oh, yeah, yeah.
It's, yeah, it's around.

pat (19:05):
Yeah.
I would, I, as matter of fact,I, I would have a lanyard, you
know?
'cause to me, I always, youknow, if you notice somebody
with a lanyard, you feel likethey're official.
If I, I'd have a lany married 35years.
Didn't mess that up.
I tell people all the time,probably when you and I met.
Yeah.
Yeah, I've been married before Istarted telling you about, about
all of the bullets flying and,you know, and all of the crimes

(19:29):
I've, I preface it with, beenmarried 35 years.
So, and actually

rich (19:35):
your book, like what you do is you find humor in actually
what was actually a very darkand disturbing.
Alternative events.
Right.
You know, like, kind of likeserious drug use, you know,
intravenous drug use, near deathexperiences, you know, being
shot at being incarcerated, likestaring down the barrel of like

(19:56):
a long, you know, a lot longsentences in prison.
'cause you guys, you know, youlike to look, you don't mess
about, like when you lock peopleup, you lock people up for a
long time.
You know, we over here, we lookat the condescends that people
get handed in America and it'slike.
But you are sending people to150 years in prison.
I don't know why, you know, butlike, it's like didn't really go
all out.

(20:17):
Right?
So, but anyway, so you arestaring down the barrel, you
know, it's a pretty, your bookcould have been written as, you
know, it's like a tragedy, youknow, but actually you make it,
you find the humor in it, and Ithink that is, you know, it's
actually really beautiful as Isit here and think about it in
our part, like it's a beautifulthing you do and it's a real
gift and actually like to beable to make people laugh.

(20:39):
Actually, I know that you've putan immense amount of work and
you, you know, you went througha lot in order to order a career
in which you make people laugh.
And actually that's, that's the,you know, for however like
worthy, the work I do mightseem, actually the work that you
do is incredibly important aswell.
You know, so I really want tokind of take mine out off to you

(21:01):
for that.

pat (21:04):
But I think it's, uh, you know, it's something that comes
natural to both of us in, inwhat we do.
But it may be something you,you, you, you think about it's,
look, I just see the humor.
I stand in line where, whereeverybody's, you know, we're
standing at the grocery store.
And the elderly woman is writinga check for the pack of
chapstick and everybody'sgetting irritated, you know,

(21:25):
because they're being held up.
I'm just back there laughing.
I'm typing it into my phoneabout, okay, there's a comedy
bit there and you kind of seethe funny, um, you're talking
about when you and you andShereen getting married, not
just trying to give you maritaladvice, but again, 35 years and
it's something I didn't mess upwhen we first got married.
Richard, just keep this in mind.

(21:47):
We fought like cats and dogs.
For the first few years therewas jockeying for position.
So when you're coming at it andyou, and you've got these
internal things inside of youthat are, that are built up, you
know, whatever it is, whateveryou, if it's rejection, my wife
had been married once before,and the back of her mind, I'm
gonna do the same thing.

(22:08):
Sure that guy did.
You know, we talked about in mylast name getting dumped, you
know, even though I was 18 or 19and being rejected, I'm
thinking, okay, surely this iscoming.
So you, you've got maybe somekind of rage.
She's like, you, your shovelingcorn flakes, man.
But by gosh you.
Have a point you have to makeand it's important to get it

(22:30):
out, and you could have madethat point and, and, and then
it, then it builds ontosomething else.
'cause then you start namecalling and then a couple hours
later you're trying to figureout what started the argument to
start with.
I mean, we'd have arguments withmy wife.
Well I, after a few years, I'mlike, you know what?
I, I, I, I'm not, I've hadenough.
This is what I'm talking aboutright here.

(22:50):
And I'm trying to make the wholeissue about what she just said.
Which was so far disconnectedfrom whatever the original thing
was about.
But the point is it's jockeyingfor position and that's what we
were doing mean we fought likecats and dogs, I mean plastic,
ketchup, bottle, you know, goingthrough the air once.

(23:11):
I was just like, we set, we jokenow about, we separated, you
know, we had, we separated somany times, but the separations
only lasted like 30 minutes.
'cause we just went to differentrooms.
I've had it, you know what, I'vehad enough of this.
I was just, maybe this was amistake.
Maybe I've had 30 minutes left.
I don't even know what I was madabout.
So as time went by.

(23:32):
When we start, when we startedgrowing together and growing
together.
And just a little side note offof the topic we're talking
about.
I used to notice, uh, you know,as mad as I'd get at my wife or
she would get mad at me, I wouldnotice that when I got up, uh,
in the morning, my wife wasalways putting me first.
Now I'm not one of these knuckledragger guys that like, well, I

(23:53):
expect my wife.
I didn't really expect anything.
I told you I married my wife'cause she was the best looking
woman that was.
Giving me the time of day, youknow, so I didn't have any
expectations.
I want you to be like my mother,or I want you to be like this,
but I've noticed always hadclothes or I haven't had this or
had that.
She was just always thinking,uh.
She's always putting me first.

(24:13):
She gets up, even if she's madat me, she's making sure my
needs are met.
And then I started doing thesame thing.
I still, you know, we wouldtravel to these football games.
I'd spend all this money to gowatch Southern Miss Play
Georgia, and thinking that wasthe thing to do.
And I started noticing shedoesn't really like doing this,
but she's just doing it for me.

(24:34):
And then the, the roles gotreversed.
The mainly, the only argument's,the only time we've had a, an
argument.
And probably in the last 20years, 15, 20 years is when I'm
not happy that she's not happyabout something.
So the point is.
It's just like my life's things.
I'm making her happy.
And if she's the person that sheis, she's going to do the same

(24:55):
thing.
And you might remember that inmarriage, as you and Reen are
going along, you're gonna havejockeying for a position that is
just normal.
You've come through life andthere's always that kind of, you
know, when you.
But after the years go by andday after day, and you know what
kind of person you have, that'show you just keep growing
together and growing togetherand growing together.

(25:16):
But what you guys just did, I'mnot trying to be the analyst
here because you are the, you'rethe psychotherapist, but think
about what you just did.
You had a big fight and then youturned around and it turned into
a big laugh with you lookinglike you had rabies with foam
coming out, coming outta yournose.
I would've liked to have seenthat too.

rich (25:35):
Yeah, I bet you were pa Another just thing that pings
into my head about humor is soin, you know, as you know, like
I'm a recovering crack addictand, and heroin addicts, right?
And there's some, you know,that's not a, a lifestyle
choice, right?
Which, uh, comes without some,some challenges and some some
difficulties, right?

(25:55):
And, um, you know, and I have alot of friends in my recovery
circle, you know, my, the 12step group, the, uh, 12 step
fellowship that I'm a member of.
Who have had similar experiencesand, and, and actually you find
like a thread of humor in it,you know?
And like a, there's a couple ofreally common ones.
One, one is like.
When you, you've, you've, you'vesmoked so much crack, right?
That you are really, you arereally paranoid and basically

(26:17):
psychotic, right?
And you're kind of peering out,you know, through the crack in
the blinds, right?
And like, you know, looking forthe, you know, the, the SWAT
team that are gonna come throughthe door.
Right.
Like after you and you're like ahundred bucks worth of crack
cocaine.
Yeah.
So like, they've launched a fulloperation and like, you can't,
you know, you can't look, youknow, you have to look really

(26:37):
carefully.
'cause then they, if you, youknow, you need to be able to see
them.
But if you move too much, thenthey'll be able to see you and
there's no one there anyway.
Right.
And, um, you know, you end upkind of hiding an wardrobe.
Um, and the other is like.
When you know you are waiting,you know, you're waiting on some
corner and you know, you'vecalled, we don't have open air
drug markets as much as you guyshave over here, although we, we

(26:58):
have that in some parts of, of,of London and, and places like
that.
But you, so you, you'll called adealer and he says, I'll be
there in five minutes.
And you call him 10 minuteslater and he says, I'll be there
in five minutes.
And sometimes you might be therefor like three hours, you know
what I mean?
And he's always five minutesaway, right.
And then you're there and you'recursing him and this guy, ma'am,
and he gets here, I'm gonna tellhim, and you know, I'm never
gonna buy off this guy again.

(27:19):
And then he comes.
And then'cause she's there withyour drugs, like he's now your
best friend.
You know what I mean?
And you're like, yes man, safe,good to see you, man.
I love your new trainers.
You look great, man.
Nice car.
You know?
And then he's your best friend.
And then you go off and you dothe same thing again, you know,
the next day or like two hourslater.
Right?
But like, but the truth of itis, is those that it is funny to

(27:40):
talk about it like that, butactually it's a way of like
making peace with what.
You know what you've gonethrough, right?
'cause actually what you'retalking about is like putting
yourself into a state ofpsychosis over and over again
and living in terror, right?
Like which you've voluntarilyput yourself in to, and then you
do it again the next day, whichis.
Abso, which is mad, right?
Like and extremely traumatic,right?

(28:01):
And, and, and then also, youknow, and waiting on the street
corner for some guy who couldn'tcare less about you, who's
actually like, activelyprofiting off of your distress
and you know, the damage thatyou're causing to yourself and
kids around you.
And this guy has got so muchpower over you.
You know what I mean?
He's got so much power over you,you know, like you are like, you
know, it's a desperate place tobe, right?

(28:22):
You know, just getting treatedlike.
Essentially getting treated likea piece of trash on the
sidewalk.
Right.
Um, so, but the humor, you know,developing that narrative around
it actually, it, it's a way ofmaking peace with having gone
through like some awful things,you know?
And, um, yeah.
So as we sit here, like, it'slike, oh yeah, like, actually,

(28:43):
you know, and some of these arefresh thoughts on the back of
that article part, you know,it's like, oh, actually, yeah,
that's, that's part of the powerof humor as well, is to make
peace with things that areactually awful.

pat (28:54):
I couldn't help but bust out laughing'cause I literally
did the, the blinds are down,you're looking through and every
car that comes by, uh, is, is,you know, it's the narcotics
quad and they're gonna startsurrounding the house.
They don't know.
You know, you, you're in there,some little pan guy doing drugs,

(29:15):
but you're just certain at anymoment.
I didn't really think aboutthat, but I guess that's what it
was.
I cousin, I did the same thing.
I remember getting up, me and myfriend get up and look through
the window and you'd stare downthe window.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
It's a car.
It's a car.
So it's funny hearing you had todo the same thing, but yeah, I
think you, you're exactly right.
That's why this kind of jumpedinto my head.

(29:37):
It's a way of looking at thingsand, and not just coping.
We're not, I'm not, I don'tthink it's just saying, Hey, go
out and watch a comedian everyday.
I think it's just everydaystuff.
Seeing the absurdity, seeingthe, the, uh, humor, but
learning how to laugh atyourself.
I laugh at myself all the time.
Like sometimes I introducemyself as a recovering moron or

(29:58):
an idiot.
'cause I just fashion myself asthat.
I'm like, it's just amazing.
I made it this far.
But it's being able to look backin a humorous way and, uh, what
you just said, uh, that, uh,yeah, that is kind of profound
looking back.
And that's what I was wondering,how it could be used in the
clinical sense and to somebody,because everybody that.

(30:19):
The people that you're talkingto, if they look back at how
desperately they needed thedrugs and things, what you were
talking about, the drug dealercoming up, I know exactly what
you're talking about.
Looking back on it, it is kindof humorous and how foolish that
you were acting.
So that's that's a very goodpoint.
So there's, um, you know, like Isaid, there's the clinical

(30:40):
aspect, which.
Which you talked about and thenthe personal, I didn't really
think about that.
It's just kind of, it's lookingat things in a humorous and
funny way because I can assureyou that it's out there.
Even arguments in marriage,everyone with me and my wife, we
still, if we had a really badargument, we'll we will go back
something 20 years later andwe'll joke, we, we'll remember

(31:02):
the.
Funny part about it.
Oh, like you remember the timethat I was so mad.
I drove to Louisiana, thefootball game by myself and I
and you.
So that's a good illustration.
And to close, it's not just, um,not just the clinical and the
personal, but God wanted us tolaugh.
He, there are literally 25references in the Bible.

(31:26):
Scriptures that have laughter init.
And the first one is Proverbs1722.
Everyone's heard a cheerfulheart is a good medicine, but a
crushed spirit dries up bones.
There's another translation thatlaughter doeth good.
Like a medicine, and so it does.
I mean, the Bible is literallytelling us about laughter and

(31:48):
that God gave us that.
Psalm 1 26, 2.
Then our mouth was filled withlaughter and our tongue was
shouts of joy.
Then they said among thenations, the Lord has done great
things for them.
Luke 6 21.
Blessed are you who weak Now.

(32:09):
For you shall laugh.
That's God talking to us,telling us laughter's important.
Uh, Proverbs 31 25.
She is clothed with strength anddignity and she laughs without
fear of the future.
What he's pointing out here issomeone that is laughing.

(32:33):
Because they don't have fear ofthe future.
So there is a biblical aspectthat this too, part of what
gives me the peace and whereenduring my wife and our
struggles, when you came rightdown, when it came right down to
it, that we laugh.
'cause we do know that we havethe peace of God.
We know how everything ends andour faith is in Jesus.
So that really, that, that isthe buffer, at the bottom.

(32:56):
God gave us laughter, used thatlaughter and he gave us peace.
And he also says in, I can'tthink of what the, the name of
the verse is, but, but the Lordlaughs at the wicked for He sees
that his day is coming, so Godis laughing.
God himself laughs, gave uslaughter and we should use it.

(33:21):
I joke a lot of times that Ithink God gathers.
Peter and Gabriel around andjust watches me at times just to
get a kick outta whateverfoolish thing that I'm doing at
the time.
But it's literally saying in theBible, God laughs.
God gave us laughter.
He emphasizes it.
And let's end with, uh, with myfavorite, uh, job 8 21.

(33:46):
He will feel your mouth withlaughter and your lips with
shouting.
God's telling us he will fill uswith laughter.
It's a gift that he gave us.
And I just think if people wouldfocus on that and you brought
some very interesting thingsthat.
From what you were talking abouton how people can, uh, can

(34:07):
utilize that.
It's not just going to see acomedian watch a movie or
something like that.
Although it is things that, youknow, we've discussed in the
past where you get up in themorning and you turn on politics
or you go on social media andyou scroll through and you look
at something that's wanting tomake you wanna punch a friend in
the face as opposed to clippingpast that and just looking at
something funny and somethingabsurd.

(34:28):
You know, something of theabsurdity of life.
Focus on funny, focus onlaughter, but it does, that is a
very interesting article.
It does seem to make a hugedifference, not just with your
spirit, not just with your mood,but also with your health.
Um, any final thoughts beforeyou go downstairs and, um, and,

(34:51):
uh, tell Reen that you, you'refinished spending time with P
Rat.

rich (34:56):
No, man.
You covered it all beautifully,pat.

pat (34:59):
Alright, my man.
Well go back downstairs andhopefully there's, hopefully
it's gonna be a few days beforethe corn flakes start coming
outta your mouth again, you'regetting married, it's an
emotional time.
It's gonna happen.
So, uh, let's try to rememberthe humor part for everyone out
there.
Uh, maybe put this part of yourthought process.

(35:20):
Try to laugh, try to find humorand try to keep your heart Mary.
So well, good talking to you,rich, and God bless everybody
out there and we will see youall next time.

rich (35:33):
Lovely.
Nice one, pat.
God bless you, and God blesseveryone listening.
Thank you.