Ep 15: The Power of Communicating as God Intended

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Richard and Pat talk about the importance of how we communicate with ourselves, our loved ones and people we interact with in our daily lives. They discuss that they've learned through personal experience that our words and actions can lift up and encourage, or tear down and destroy. They also point out some of the many verses in the Bible where God is telling us that the way we communicate determines whether we live in peace, joy and happiness or stress, anger and resentment. 

Episode Transcript

Pat (00:23):
And welcome to the two Unlikely Christians podcast.
I am comedian and formerjuvenile delinquent Pat McCool
coming to you from the PineyWoods of Mississippi, three
miles from a former army nucleartest site, and now all the way
to London.
England to esteemedpsychotherapist and addiction

(00:46):
specialist, and a man who onceswam down the river.
Tim's naked to protest theshrinking size of the Corn
Flakes box.

Rich (00:55):
Richard Turrell.
That's me.
I'm here.
Hello, pat.
Nice to see you.
Nice to see you.
How you doing,

Pat (01:01):
man?

Rich (01:02):
Yeah, I'm all right man.

Pat (01:03):
You?
I'm good.
Everything going good in, uh, inLondon?

Rich (01:07):
It's all good over here, mate.
All good.
How about you?
Good hunting so far this week.
What's that good hunting?
The hunting's going well.

Pat (01:15):
Oh, well, it, no.
Well, as I've told you, I don'thunt.
I'm actually, I'm actually theguy going down the road honking
at the deer, you know, Hey, youneed to get outta here because
Pletus and the F-150 is comingover the hill with, with a$3,000
rifle in a scope.
You know, as I told you, I willeat all the beef you want to

(01:37):
give me, uh, but I'm not ahunter.
I do have a in.
What's that?

Rich (01:44):
The moonshine.
How's the still?
How is it?

Pat (01:47):
Uh, the, that?
No still's going.
Well.
Yeah.
Still.
Uh, yeah.
We'll go out there.
Throw for throw, throw a few,uh, throw a few logs on and see
what, uh, see what vintage wecome up with this, this year.
Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
And the trailer.
Trailer ready for winter.

Pat (02:01):
Trailer.
Yeah, we get the trailer ready,we get every, we get everything
just ready to, ready to hunkerdown and, uh, good stuff and
survive until spring, we gottago, you know, you go into town
for provisions.
Yeah.
Because, you know, I live about30 miles out outside of town.
So other than that, we're doinggood there.
So anyway, today, let us talkabout, a little bit of a takeoff

(02:24):
on what we did LA last week.
You know, we, we wrote somethingthat we read something that, Dr.
Beverly Ann Small, well had, hadposted and she was actually
posting, you know, it was anarticle or something that
somebody had else written apretty fascinating topic, but
she.
Posted something else.
I'm not just trying to hack,Beverly, but she posted

(02:44):
something else that kind of gotmy attention because it was
something that in conjunctionwhat we were talking about and
it's about the power ofcommunication and.
I also noticed, uh, for those ofyou who didn't hear the last
episode, Dr.
Beverly Smallwood is apsychologist here in
Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Very well known, uh, renownedjust Richard, and I noticed it.

(03:09):
I tend to attract, I mean, nowmy closest friends are
psychologists andpsychotherapists.
Do you think, is there somethingFreudian going on here or you
think I'm just getting freehelp?

Rich (03:21):
Oh, it could be, you know, we, we attract what we put out.
So it might be that as you'vegrown as a person, become more
in touch with yourself, youknow, more aware.
That those are people that havecome into your orbit, you know,
'cause they're, they're kind,you are vibrating on the same
kind of frequencies as thosepeople.
It could be that we all as agroup, collectively, maybe

(03:45):
unconsciously, feel that youneed a lot of help and, um, and
want to give that to you, youknow.

Pat (03:54):
I think, uh, I wanna say both actually.
I, I just, I think there's asympathy factor on, on both of
your parts.
And also we do, we do kind ofattract,'cause actually that's
how you and I ended up gettingback together when our, after
our first lengthy conversation,it was like, well, we have a
passion to kind of help people.
So, uh, let's get together andsee if we can, and all this time

(04:16):
later here we are having thisconversation.
So.
Let us get to the topic, and I'mgonna read what this is, what
she actually, posted.
And I think she's kind oftalking about marriage, but
we're gonna, we're gonna coverall of the aspects of
communication.
'cause the more I startedthinking about it, the power of
the tongue is, you know, wetalked about how laughter

(04:36):
affects mood and environment,people around you.
Well man, what you say and whatyou,.
Convey to other people and thehow you do it is one of the most
important things out there.
And so what she said was, whencouples come to see me at the
Hope Center, that's the name ofher clinic, by the way, no
matter what the presentingproblem, I know that work with

(04:56):
communication is in order.
This is true in every area oflife where relationships are
important.
The abilities to share, listen,and understand are rare intent
and impact are often misaligned.
This does not have to bebiblical wisdom, which we're
going to get into'cause there'sa lot of it here.
Provides valuable guidance.
Speak the truth and love.

(05:17):
Be slow to speak and quick tolisten.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Don't make assumptions.
Communication has not takenplace until the message is
received and the way it wasintended.
That takes an investment of timeand attention, but it is so
worth it.
You have any thoughts on thatpost there?

Rich (05:39):
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Pat, thank you for reading that.
And um, yeah, I'd to meetBeverly, she an.
The other, um, scripture thatspray into my mind instantly
was, um, and I can't rememberthe, the reference, but it's,
um, you know, like, don't bringyour gift to the order while
you've still got conflict goingon with, with.

(06:00):
Like your fellow man, like worseto that effect.
And it's like, it's saying that,you know, like, you know, don't
come to me while you are stillwarring and squabbling with
someone else.
Like, you need to go and sortthat out, you know, so it, it
strongly suggests it's tellingus to, you know, like to deal
with our, you know, ourdifferences, our conflicts, you
know, I really like that one aswell.
That's one that's helped me out,you know, when I've been kind of

(06:21):
wrapped up in myself and, youknow, perceived or, or real kind
of conflict or insult.
So that really.
That really kinda springs tomind and um, just like, you
know, we all need connection.
You know, be that with eachother, be that with ourselves,

(06:41):
be that with our environment,and of course be that, you know,
in the relationship that webuild that we're called to have.
With Jesus.
You know, we all need thatconnection, you know, 100%.
Um, there's, there's a school oftherapy called Transpersonal,

(07:02):
which is about spiritual, youknow, it's about the spiritual
realm, like bringing, you know,spirituality into the
psychotherapy relationship.
And, and there's this idea that.
Somewhere in those early wounds,you, you know, of childhood or
even infancy, you know, ourability to, to relate to the

(07:26):
other IE like the primarycaregiver, you know, gets, you
know, disturbed, disrupted,broken, and then that break in
relationship means that when we,we grow up and we are trying to
connect with, with God.
Stock, actually, we, we've lostthat, that ability, like it's
got impaired, you know?

(07:46):
And that if you repair throughthe therapy, if you repair the
ability to relate, to connect.
Like in the context of thetherapeutic relationship, then
actually you, you allow someonethe ability to then connect with
everything, including God, youknow, including the, you know,
the wonders of, of having thatrelationship.

(08:08):
And I, I really like that idea.
I think there's really somethingto that, you know, somewhere
along the way for those of usthat struggled with like
addictions and other mentalhealth problems, that that
ability to be in relationshiphas got disrupted.
And that is the root of all ofall psychological ills.
Really.
That's the, that's thephilosophy.
I like that.

Pat (08:29):
I was gonna Well, that's what I was gonna ask you.
Was there any clinicalapproaches and, and you just
kind of described that and, uh,that's excellent.
I didn't really think about it.
Uh, you know, we don't, I don'tthink we, we just don't place
the value on our tongues andwhat we say.
And we had a saying, I don'tknow if you had this growing up
in, in England, but do youremember the old saying, sticks

(08:49):
and stones may break my bones,but words will never hurt me.

Rich (08:53):
Yeah.
The most.
Nonsense.
Like the most like toxic,damaging, like problem.
And I, yeah, and I remember thatbeing said to me, you know, when
I was getting bullied, like, andI was bullied quite a lot.
Like it, it was different how itis now.
You know, I'm really glad Ididn't grow up in the era of
cyber bullying, you know, so mybullying largely, it stopped
when I got home, you know?

(09:14):
Um, and of course now, likethrough smartphones and devices,
it follows people home and it,you know, it's with them, you
know, everywhere, you know, and.
You know, so I didn't have toexperience any of that, but
like, yeah, I got bullied a fairbit and um, you know, I was a
big kid.
I was very overweight and um,and a bit different and soft and
sensitive kid, and I got bullieda fair bit and, um, and, and
that was, you know, and Ireached out for help.

(09:37):
You know, and this isn't a blamething, but it's my parents, they
weren't particularly equipped todeal with.
A lot of things, right.
And, um, they, that that was abig part of what they said, you
know, well, sticks in stones maybreak my bones, but words will
never help me.
And, you know, the, the recordwould seem to show based on how
my life went off to that, thatthat may not have been the most

(10:00):
effective approach, you know?
So yeah.
Words hurt, man.
Like, you know, there's the,there's a, a story, um, that I
really like.
I, I got sent it in one of thosekind of chain.
WhatsApp messenger things a longtime ago, and it's about, um,
it's about nails in a wall andit's the idea that, you know,
when you, you bang a nail orpicture hook or whatever into a

(10:22):
wall.
Yeah.
And then when you take it out.
You can fill it and you can sandit and you can, you know,
repaint the wall and you can dothe most beautiful job.
But if you look close enough,you will always be able to see
the mark that that nail left.
And the idea of the story wasthat actually, that's what,
that's what cruel, that hurtfulwords do.

(10:44):
They always leave their mark,you know, no matter how well
repaired it is.
And I, I think there's reallysomething to that part.

Pat (10:53):
I think that's, uh, you know, as you said, the, the
sticks and stones comment was,was total nonsense because you
kinda know a doctor can repair abroken bone, but you can say
something to somebody,especially when they're young,
that you can ruin their life.
Tell somebody they're dumb.
You know, tell somebody, likeyou said, I didn't really think
about the, you know, thebullying aspect of it, but

(11:15):
that's it.
You're being told things thatwhen you're young that have an
impact on you, and they justlast in your, in your mind.
I, you know, I wasn't reallythinking about that, but that's
all part of communication andwhat, what you're saying to
people.
The um.
It kind of reminds me, and I, Idon't mean to refer back to my
book, but you, you know, and,and my, my dad, uh, great man,

(11:37):
fantastic.
Loved my dad.
We had a fantastic relationship.
But he was that from that WorldWar II genera, you know, end of
the mm-hmm.
The thing.
And they're, they just led aharder thing and, you know,
they, they were into theself-esteem with the kids.
And my dad would call meuseless, you know, if I went out
and the lawnmower broke orwhatever, you know, use, you
know, you were totally useless.
Well, what do you think thatsunk into me.

(12:00):
I, I remembered that that stayedwith me, but I just, little
words or things that peoplesaid, but to the book.
I don't know if you remember thestory, but do you remember how I
was, um.
Like, I would come to schoollate and, and there was one
class I went to to history'causeI loved going to history class,
but I'd had this reputation bythe time I got in the 10th grade

(12:22):
that the teacher, I could walkin and outta the school and the
teachers never really saidanything.
The principal actually called mein one time and said, pat, I,
you know, I'm not gonna get on,I'm not here to get on to you or
anything.
We just want you to come toclass.
I mean, it was, I kind of hadthat, that reputation and one
day.
I walk into this, my, my secondperiod class, I would get up and

(12:43):
start driving to school and thenI would smoke what, you know, on
the way over there.
And then I'd decide to go toBurger King first, and then I
would come walking into mysecond period class.
Well, I had a teacher named Ms.
Hudson, little short lady hadthe, this little bob haircut
and.
I walked in one day, I, I strollin the class about five minutes

(13:05):
late, and I start walking backto the back to sit back to sit
next to my buddy, uh, ScottGraham.
And as I'm walking back there,this woman said, well, good
morning, pat.
And it catches me off guardbecause I'm like, did she not
get the memo?
You know that I'm a thug andnobody's, nobody's supposed to
say anything to me.
And uh, so I just kind of lookedat her and smiled and started to

(13:28):
sit down and she said it again.
She said, good morning, pat.
She said, you know, pat, I'm soglad you made it today.
She said,'cause there'ssomething about you.
I don't know what it is, but Ireally like you.
I'm just.
Stunned.
You know, I was like, what?
What I, you know, I'm thinkingyou're sending me outta the
class.
You're telling me this is thelast time I disrupt the class.
She said, I just think there's,and she repeated it like three

(13:49):
times.
There's just something about youthat I really like.
I really like you.
And I had this big smile on herface.
I can see it like it wasyesterday.
That comment stuck with me.
You know, at that point I justkind of stuck in my head.
I'm like, okay, I'm not thisthug that I'm trying to act out,
and this little woman up here,and she strategically said that.
To me, she didn't just get upand say, okay, I'm gonna sit.
She's probably thinking thisguy, you know, that thinks, you

(14:12):
know, that, thinks he's this andshe said this, that I really
like you.
I just really like you.
And had this big smile on herface stuck with me.
Probably not a month that goesby, even through my troubles.
As I kept getting in moretrouble, I kept remembering, you
know, Ms.
Hudson said she, you know, thatshe really liked me.
So there's, there's got to besome good.

(14:32):
Inside me.
But those things really stickwhat you say to people and what
you communicate with people youknow, along the way.
The um.
Bullying.
I didn't really think aboutthat.
Uh, man, I'm thrilled.
We don't have the cyberbullying, like you said, you
could deal with it at, atschool, but once you got out of
there or you fought in theparking lot or whatever, it was
all good.

(14:53):
But now there's so many peopleprobably what has led so much to
suicide rates and, and, uh, youknow, we discussed that earlier,
the, the, you know, the massivesuicide rates and, but so much
is communication and what peoplesay, to others because they can
lift people up and they can tear'em down.
When, when you're doing, um,your clinical work, do you ever

(15:18):
talk about like, what people sayto themselves, not just to what
you say to to other people?
Oh,

Rich (15:23):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
That, that kind of internaldialogue.
100%.
And, and it's really, you know,those.
Those messages that get pickedup in childhood.
Like they, they, they reallystick.
And you see that in the way thatpeople talk to themselves.
You know, like, you're useless.
Why did you do that?
What's wrong with you?
You know, all those kind ofthings.
And, and actually helping, Ithink people to like kind of

(15:45):
understand where that comes fromand start to re reframe some of
those beliefs is, is really,really important.
Um.
Yeah, that's a big part of itdefinitely is understanding that
kind of internal dialogue.
And often, I mean, it's, itsometimes those, that internal
dialogue, it, it can be reallyharsh, but it's, it's almost

(16:06):
trying to serve a purpose,right?
It's like a, it's like if I'mtold.
Say, I'm told I'm alwaysuseless.
I'm useless.
Right?
So, like, dad, always, dad tellsme I'm useless, right?
But I, I need dad, right?
Like, I want dad's approval, Iwant his love, you know, like
I'm wired, I'm hardwired towardsthat, right?
Like I'm, you know, we are, weare wired to connect with our,

(16:27):
with our caregivers, right?
For survival.
Yeah.
It's like I'm a little kid.
Yeah.
Like I'm, you know, and I, I, Idepend on mom and dad, like, for
everything.
Yeah.
Like I, I, I can't even reachthe tap, the force it or
whatever you like, call it.
Right.
Like to get the water.
Yeah.
Like food, clothing, shelter,warmth, everything.
I depend on mom and dad.
Right.
So I'm hardwired to try andconnect with them for survival.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah.

Rich (16:50):
So I wanna maintain the connection with that.
Yeah.
So when he doesn't think I'museless, I get that connection.
Yeah.
When I'm showing him I've, I'vegot, use some use.
Right.
I've got, I'm connected withhim, but when he thinks I'm
useless, I'm not.
Yeah.
He's over there and he's angryand he doesn't wanna know me.
Right.
But very much part of my storytoo, pat.
Right.

(17:11):
So you can end up with his voicethat's telling you useless.
You need to try harder, you needto do better.
Do do.
Yeah.
And actually what that voice istrying to do is trying to
protect you.
Yeah.
'cause it's trying to spur youon to be useful rather than
useless.
Yeah.
So it becomes internalized likethat, but that, that actually
ends up being a really harshthing to live with.
Right.

(17:31):
And then often there'll beaddiction on the back of that
because it, you know, likehaving a drink or a drug might
be the only thing that allowsyou.
Some respite from thisrelentless.
Like drive to try and do, to tryand be useful, you know?
So, yeah, like, I mean, look,long answer Pat.
Yeah.

(17:52):
But like, yeah, definitely trystarting to unpack that stuff
and understand it and reframeit.
I is look of, of criticalimportance, you know, the way
that we relate to ourselves is,is as important as anything else
I would say.
You know, and of, of course ifI'm always just one more word on
that pat, right?
If I'm always striving to beuseful, then it is very

(18:12):
difficult to, to beauthentically connected to
someone because consciously orunconsciously, I'm always trying
to be being like a good boy,essentially.
You know?
And that's not real, you know,that will stop me doing things
that are messy or, you know,it's, you know, wanting.

(18:34):
To like ask for help, to allow,you know, like, you know, to, to
just be like present inrelationship.
'cause I'm always trying to bethis thing that is very hard to
do consistently, you know?
Does that make sense?
So it's not the best, it makes alot of sense.
And

Pat (18:49):
yeah, you, you, you actually took it in a direction
that I, because I was thinkingwhat, because when my dad would
say that to me, I just shut himout.
I just, and I,'cause I thoughtnot shut him out, I just
thought, well, I am useless.
You know, I was just like, well,that's probably who I am if my
dad is saying that.
So I think a lot of that peoplejust get into'em that, that this

(19:10):
is what I am.
I am useless.
What difference does it make?
So I'm gonna go off and createall this chaos that I did.
But what you opened up was, Isee this all the time.
It can be in marriages, ispeople going, they're always
striving.
You know, when they were young,they were made to feel.
Uh, you know, that they didn'tmeasure up.
I think we talked about it in anepisode a while back.
They, they've been made to feelthat they don't measure up.

(19:32):
So they're always out andthey're always stressed.
I know people personally thatare always stressed trying to be
perfect because when they wereyounger, you know, they were
made to, they were made to feelthat, that they, you know, that
they, uh, they didn't measureup.
They're always trying to, I had,um.
I though when, when my dad said,you're useless, I'm like, yeah,

(19:52):
well, I, you know, probably,basically am I'm gonna go get
high and do, do drugs and dowhatever.
I'm not saying that was thereason why, but I, I kind of
took it that way.
Oh, also, um, you yelling, likeif you're raising your voice at
somebody, you know that Istopped listening at listening
at that point.
Mm-hmm.
But I just wonder with self,with self talk and I'm, you

(20:14):
know, I, this may not be a greatanalogy, but.
It's your confidence in whatyou're doing.
You know what you're tellingyourself.
You're.
Going to do, you know, just likein, in comedy, when I first
started in comedy, that voicewas like, what if it goes wrong?
What if it this?
Once I got good at it, I wasdoing, I'm always like, okay,
I'm waiting for this guy justin, in front of me just to be
quiet so I'm ready to go upthere'cause I'm expecting

(20:36):
something good.
So as life went on, I developedwhere I that confidence.
But if you're telling yourselfthings that you know, you may
screw up, you may mess up.
If you've had that stimuli putin your head, there's a good
chance you will.
I always think of this time backin, um.
When I was in basic training,you know, we grew up in America,
uh, and we grew up watching theWorld War II movies.

(20:58):
And by the way, I, I've alwayswondered, where were you Brits
during World War ii?
Because all the American WorldWar II movies, we never see you
guys.
It was just, it was us, youknow?
Yeah.
Nothing about London beingbombed.
I mean, occasionally you mightsee a couple.
Chaps having some tea as theAmericans were going towards the
fighting.
But if you watched an AmericanWar movie, you thought, Hey, it

(21:20):
is just, it was just us.

Rich (21:22):
Yeah.
Well, I think Pat, there'd be alot less, uh, war movies to be
made.
A few lot.
I turned up a little bitearlier.
That's all I'd, all I'd say onthat.

Pat (21:31):
Is that, is that what it's Yeah, could be.
Um.
But back to my analogy.
So I grew up thinking, okay, I,like I said, I don't hunt, but
you always mention AR fifteens,I can shoot an AR 15 because
the, of course you can,

Speaker 3 (21:46):
pat, I mean of course you can, not just because

Pat (21:49):
I

Speaker 3 (21:49):
grew up in, it's, it's not kidding,

Pat (21:53):
it's not just'cause I grew up in Mississippi, but the
United States Army, uh, actuallypaid for me to learn, paid for
me to learn how to shoot an AR15 and throw a hand grenade,
which is, this is myillustration.
I was the, uh, platoon guide andwhich means I got to go into
the, uh, the, the sergeant'soffice.

(22:15):
And I would know what we weregonna do, and I saw where we're
going to the grenade range.
Well, oh man.
To, you know, to, to a, youknow, good old me, me and boy,
like myself, I'm, well, we'regonna be throwing hang grenades
guys, two days.
We're going out to the, to thehang grenade range.
Everybody's all excited about itbecause we've seen the war
movies and we've seen the hanggrenades.
So me and my buddy, we gothrough all this, you know, the
kind of training day and thenyou go up to the actual range

(22:37):
where you're gonna throw thehand grenade.
So we get out of this truck andwe start walking up this hill.
And all of a sudden I hear thismassive boom boom and the ground
shakes and I mean, my behindjust, just tighten up.
It dawned on me.
I was like, wait a minute, isthat what we're gonna go, the

(22:59):
sound that just happened upthere and this ground moving.
This is what we're actuallygoing to do.
That, that, that's apparentlysomebody that just had one of
those hand grenades in theirhand.
And I just started, I wassweating by the time I got up
there.
The whole thing changed.
I started telling myself, I'mdrawing the draw.
Oh, what if I drop it?
If they, if I drop it, they'regonna spray me outta here with a

(23:19):
fire hose.
What if the pen doesn't comeoutta here?
So I'm all nervous by the time Iget up there to do the hand
grenade, and then I get the handgrenade, I walk down into the
pit.
And I stand down.
The guy says, open the box, andI opened the box and I looked at
that hand grenade and all of asudden I told myself I heard a
voice in my head say, you havemade a lot of mistakes in your

(23:41):
life, but dropping this handgrenade is not going to be one
of you.
One of them,

Rich (23:47):
yeah.

Pat (23:48):
Just all of a sudden a voice in my head said, there is
zero chance you're gonna dropthis hand grenade.
There is zero chance you're notgonna throw it over this wall
the way you're supposed to.
The stakes are too high.
And once I said that, once Itold myself that I got
completely calm.
Matter of fact, I pulled it outand kind of looked at the guy
like, well, you want me?
What do you want me to do withit now?
I all of a sudden I got cockybecause I had just told myself.

(24:13):
I'm not gonna mess this up.
You see what I'm saying?
But my voice in my head prior tothat was telling me.
Um, you know, good chance, youknow, the, what, what possibly
could happen.
So I, that's why I was justwondering if in, in your
clinical research, if you teachpeople to, to tell themselves, I
mean, confidence in life, that,that you, you do, uh, expound on

(24:35):
that in your work?

Rich (24:36):
Yeah, like self-esteem work, self-belief, definitely.
Like changing core beliefs,changing.
But life scripts, you know,there's different kind of angles
and different names for it.
You know, cognitive behavioraltherapy, you know, like
challenging the thoughts that wehave about ourselves looking for
evidence, you know, pros andcons.
There's a really nice, it'sreally basic, but there's, um,

(24:58):
you know, it's, it's like an oldfact, like old piece of work.
It's been around for decades,right?
But like, uh, there's aworksheet.
A cognitive variable therapyworksheet called the judge and
you, you essentially put thethings that you tell yourself
about yourself.
In the dock.
Yeah.
And then you have a case for theprosecution and a case of the
defense, you know, so you wouldlist all of the, you know, same

(25:20):
line is like, I'm useless.
And you would, you know, youwould put all the evidence down
that you are useless, right?
And like, you, you, youactually, you honor that, you
make room for it.
Yeah.
But in the case of the defenses,all the, all the evidence that
actually, that counteracts,that, you know, that goes
against that, that says actuallyyou aren't useless.
You know, and you know youreally like, you really break it
down and challenge it, and youhelp people to actually start to

(25:43):
see that the things that we tellourselves about ourselves are
not true and, or they're notlike completely true.
You know, it depends on theperson, right?
You know,'cause start with all,you know, I've, I mean I've got,
certainly got events in my lifeI can demonstrate like where I
was useless, you know, I was useYeah, yeah.

(26:03):
I, yeah, he was telling thetruth at the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was.
But I mean, actually let'schallenge that a little bit.
It's like, you know, like,'causeyou broke the lawnmower does not
mean you are useless.
Yeah.
Like you have no use, you know,like it, you know, so it's
reframing that and challengingthat.
And that stuff.
And then in terms of that likeconnection to others, I guess
kind of bringing it back aroundto that, you know, bringing that

(26:25):
into focus again is.
Like the beliefs that we tellourselves in the context of our
relationships with other people.
You know, I, you know, you know,I'm not likable.
You know, people, you know, youknow people.
If I show people this about, youknow, something about myself
like that I'm vulnerable orimperfect, then they won't want
to know me, you know?

(26:46):
And so it's like challengingthose things as well and helping
people to have a differentexperience in relationships.
You know, so you can,challenging all of that, those
kind of thoughts and beliefs aswell.
So yeah, like tons of that sortof stuff really, I think is, is
really important.
And just general, I mean, goingall over the place a little bit,
but like, you know, there'll bepeople, sometimes people come up

(27:08):
and it's like, you know, like I,I always get rejected, you know,
people always leave me and it'slike challenging that, but it's
also like.
Looking at, well, how can youcommunicate who you are, what
your needs are, what your wantsare?
You know, like in different waysthat actually mean, like you
don't always end up in the samesituation, you know?

(27:29):
But so for me, I know what I'vedone before and what I'm
actually working really hard,um, on, I'm doing now with my
fiance.
You know, having some, some,some, some success with I'd say
is, you know, my thing is when Ifeel like misunderstood,
unheard, you know, slightlyrejected, taken advantage of,

(27:51):
taken for granted.
That's a big one for me.
Then rather than communicatingany of that stuff, I, I cut off,
go within.
I just, you know, kind of put upa wall, an invisible wall
between me and the other person.
Become quite inauthentic.
Yeah.
And then, but then on my side ofthe wall, like I'm off thinking
about.

(28:12):
Doing all sorts of things, youknow, looking for the exit,
essentially.
Right.
And, and you know, I've donethat, you know, in, in pretty
much every relationship I've hadup to this point.
And actually, so like goingagainst that and learning how to
communicate when I'm upset orfeel unheard, you know, and all
those things.
And being, being able to have aconversation about that.
Like, and that is how I stay inrelationship.

(28:36):
And I don't just mean likeliving in the same house and as
the other person.
I mean like being in arelationship with them where
both sides are turning up andyou know, I'm doing my bit to
turn up and be me.
And that's how I stay inrelationship today, which is a
beautiful thing to be able todo, even though it's really hard
sometimes.

Pat (28:58):
Just takes a long time.
When you were, are you sayinglike you, you would shut down
just like shut off?

Rich (29:04):
Yeah.
Oh, I could go through themotions.
Yeah.
And just like put on a kind oflike Richard mask, like, Hey
baby, you know, da da dah.
Yeah.
Like, where are we gonna gotoday?
What you need?
Are you okay?
How's your day?
But inside, I'm, I'm, I'm gone.
Do you know what I mean?
Like.

Pat (29:19):
I did that.
Um, when we first got, when Glenand I first got married, you
know, I mean, I told you 35years, don't maybe break the
lanyard out, you know, showingmy 35 years.
Have you been

Speaker 3 (29:30):
married 35 years, pat?
I've never told you how, younever mentioned.
You should have mentioned that,man.
You should.
Why didn't you say something?
I should sh I should've sharedthat with you.
I, I don't wanna sound

Pat (29:42):
like, I wanna be obnoxious and sound like I'm, I'm
bragging, but it like Yeah.
You

Speaker 3 (29:46):
have to gimme a few moments just to take that in.
This sound relu revolutionaryinformation.
Like, I'm almost right.
Oh gosh.
I need a, I need a minute cut.
You need a tissue?
Okay.
Yeah.

Pat (29:59):
Oh, got several.
Right.
Well, I, you know, I say that soour listeners will know where
I've got a little, got a littlemoxie on this, but I, I, I have
to tell people though, thoseyears, first years, five, 10
years, we fought all the time.
One of the things that I woulddo though was just shut down.

(30:19):
I'm like, Nope, I've had it.
And I just, I would.
Just shut off.
Like, I'm not talking, I'm notcommunicating, I'm not saying
anything.
And then, and I think that'skind of what you were, what you
were all, uh, alluding to.
Uh, I would just shut down.
Like, I'm just not speaking.
I'm not, I've had enough ofthis, and I'm going on about my
business, but I, you know, weactually, you that's some, Very

(30:41):
interesting information of whatyou were saying about what we
were talking, so I I wasn'tgonna spend as much time on
that, but that's, that's somereally valuable information.
'cause I was really thinking ofin the beginning, is
communicating and how we dealwith people.
In general in public, you know,it's if you can master how you
communicate with other people, Idon't care if it's the spouse, I

(31:03):
don't care if it's family.
Uh, I don't care if it's theperson you're running into,
somebody you're working the waythat you communicate, you know,
I told, told you the story oneday, not on the.
Podcast.
But when we were talking abouthow I was literally in the
parking lot praying at the gasstation, just thanking God.
I was having a great day, and awoman pulls up behind me and
she's waiting for me to back outand I'm, I'm trying to be nice,

(31:26):
and then I look back and I seeher, you know, just gesturing
wildly like I'm some kind of anidiot.
And I went from, uh, holy Spiritto lunatic.
In about a quarter of a second,I'm willing to jump out and
start hurling and salts at herbecause, you know, I, I make a
living with my mouth, so I'mpretty good at it.
And then I just startedrealizing, you know, why would

(31:47):
you want to, to to act that way?
God doesn't want us to act thatway because in Galatians 5 22
23, but the fruit of the spiritis love.
Joy, peace, patience, kindness,goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control, andagainst such things there is no
law.
And you referred to that other,uh uh, just a minute ago.

(32:09):
If we're really wanting tofollow Jesus and do what God
wants us to do, do you reallythink he approves of me going
out there and losing my temper?
I didn't say that to the woman,but I wanted to.
But in the past I have.
I have.
Just all of a sudden it juststarts coming out, you know,
coming outta the mouth,insulting, saying nasty things
to people or, um, but withkindness, just being kind and

(32:34):
speaking in, in, in gentleterms, just like in
relationships.
Uh, you're talking about inmarriage.
One of the things with Gwen andI, and you and I talked about
this, you, you start a fight,you're gonna argue over these
small things, especially whenyou get married.
You're jocking for a positionfor years.
And then you start hurlinginsults two hours later.

(32:56):
You don't even know what youstarted the fight about, but now
you are.
I'm ready to pack the car andhead down the road because of
all the insulting things thatshe said to me in response to
the insulting things that I saidto her.
So now we've made an uh,entirely mess.
Now we really got something tobe mad about.
'cause I've said some insults.
She said some, some insults.

(33:17):
And.
It was all over nothing.
It was all because of the waythat we communicated, because if
you're focusing on what it saysin Galatians 5 22 and 23 through
the spirit's love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, gentleness.
That's the way we're supposed torespond to people.
So when you go out in public, Idon't care if it's in a grocery
store, I don't care if it's inbusiness, if you always respond

(33:40):
in self-control and peace,you're not just going to have a
much better relationship withanybody and everybody that you
come in contact with, but you'regoing to be pleasing God.
You're going to be closer to Godbecause you now know that you
are walking in the in, in theHoly Spirit.

Rich (33:57):
Yeah.
100%.
I, I think what I would add tothat is, you know, the, I, for
me, certainly from my, you know,faith perspective, theological
standpoint, however you wannathink about it, is like, it's
the fruit of the spirit.
Because like, actually it's likewhen we, when we've got the
spirit in us Yeah.
When we've like made those stepstowards a relationship with
Jesus, right?

(34:18):
That's the fruit that growswithin us.
So it's like, actually if I'vegot Jesus in my life, that's
what equips me to.
Demonstrate all of those things,you know, like I don't have to
demonstrate all of those thingsin order to be or embody the
fruit and to earn his love.
He loves me anyway.
I have his grace that his, theHoly Spirit draws within me.
And if I can contact that andlike, you know, if I'm doing the

(34:42):
things that help me to remain incontact with, without reading
the word praying, spending timewith other believers, gonna
church worshiping tithing, Ithink also is part of it for me.
You know, like, um.
Doing the things right.
It's not.
I don't have to try and be andembody those qualities, like

(35:03):
those qualities start to growwithin me because he's with, I'm
living in him and he's living inme.
You know, and I, I, I can bethat or help me to become more
Christlike.
And it's not that we don't haveto try, but it's like having
that stuff in me is whatmotivates me and gives me the
ability to be those things, youknow?
Of course without him.

(35:23):
I'm, I'm, I'm none of thosethings, you know, or I'm
certainly capable of being, butI can be horrible.
You know, when, you know, whenwe'd have a, you know, and I've
always done this, it's not just,not just, you know, my current
lady who, who, who gets the, youknow, the, the full Richard to
experience.
Right?
But like, you know, like, we'llhave a row.

(35:45):
You know, like I say, thishappens, you know, universally
and my, my relationship history,you know, like, and, and I'll be
told, you know, you did this andyou did that.
And where I go to is you arethis and you are that.
Like, I'm like, not just a, youknow, it stops being a route
about like something that'shappened and it becomes a route
about like literally like thecharacter, the very existence of

(36:07):
the person I'm arguing with.
You know, like, and I getreally, you know, I've left a
lot of holes in the wall, youknow, and um.
In a, towards the start of therelationship.
Like at the moment, like my, mypartner, she, she said like,
when you say those things, ittarnishes our relationship and
you never really get that off.
And that really stayed with me.
You know, it's like when I dothat stuff, it, you know, you

(36:30):
leave a stain on things, it'svery difficult to get off
completely.
You know?
So when you clean a bit ofsilver Yeah.
And you clean the tarnish off.
It's very difficult to get itback 100% to exactly the
shininess that it was before.
Sorry.

Pat (36:50):
What she said is true because there were things that
Gwen would for years say, well,you said that.
I mean, she, it, it went in herhard drive.
Something like, well, you said Iwas there.
I'm like, yeah, but I didn'treally mean it and it was coming
from this bad place.
Uh, so obviously, you know,you've had that, that same
experience.
Well, what You can't unsay it.

(37:11):
You know, once you've said it,you've, you've put it in there
and she, as she said, it leavesa stain and then she, you know,
she'll remember it in a fewyears.
You know, you end up having towork.
So communication, especially inmarriage.
And before we get into the, someof the scriptures of what God
tells us also in marriage, it'sjust so important to discuss and
communicate everything,everything that's going on in

(37:34):
your life with it's financial.
If it's, if it's anything.
So many people in marriage, uh.
Keep things to themselves orstart, or, or lead separate
lives on these different paths.
I know situations where people,well I didn't wanna tell my
husband this, or I didn't wantto tell that the most important
thing.

(37:54):
Uh, you know, we originallytalking about how you talk about
and how you, you respond topeople, but I think it's just so
important to tell people andlive a life together in
marriage.
That's how Gwen and I cametogether.
Did you know I've been married35 years?
And one of the most importantthings in being married 35 years
was that we got to where we justdiscussed things.

(38:16):
Right off the bat, I have asaying, bad news, negative news.
I want it quick and I want itstraight.
She's, you know, if I come inthe door and something happens,
she's gotta tell me somethingbad.
This is it.
Just tell it to me.
I remember once in the firstfour or five years of our
marriage, she made a thousanddollars mistake in the bank.
In the bank account.
I thought I had a thousanddollars more in there.

(38:37):
This was back when my thousanddollars is still a good bit of
money.
But you know, I was just like,you got to be.
And she, and she was soreluctant to tell me.
Thinking that I was just gonnago off and I was going to, you
know, but I didn't.
I was like, well.
That's all how that happened.
And then we just got togetherand worked through it.

(38:57):
What I'm getting at is a marriedcouple.
It's us against, not against theworld, but it's us doing this
thing.
And if you think, if you're in arelationship that you don't
think you can completelycommunicate what's going on with
your husband, you're not thereyet.
You're still in an arrangement.
Your marriage happens when youdiscuss anything and everything.
Bad news, Hey, I gotta sit downand tell you this.

(39:18):
I gotta take the medicine andlet's go on.
Um, so that might be something,you know, think about as you're
going on in your, in, in, inyour life.
It's a little different what wewere talking about, but
communication is so importantin, in a marriage, you shouldn't
ever be worried about if I tellthis person what the
ramifications are going to be.
And if you're having a, if mywife has a, has a problem, it's

(39:40):
my problem.
If my, I have a pro, you know,and vice versa, doesn't matter
who caused it or whatever.
That communication is soimportant, and I think people in
marriage, uh, need to realizethat you should always, if
you've got something stressingyou and bothering you, even if
it's something you did or, uh,whatever it it is, always

(40:00):
discuss it.
Always bring it out and alwaysdiscuss it because if you're
married to the person that Godput in your life, it's gonna all
work out and it's gonna allbring you closer together.
So let me read back to what wewere talking about, what God is
telling us.
He says, be slow to speak andthoughtful now.

(40:22):
This is James one 19.
Know this, my beloved brothers.
Let every person be quick tohear, slow to speak, and slow to
anger.
That's back to what he's saying,be slow.
If people can just learn to bequick to hear, slow to speak,
slow, to get angry, that'sreally hard for somebody like me
and you.
'cause me and you are probablycarrying uh, you know, and I

(40:45):
imagine a lot of other peopleare.
Proverbs 1728.
Even a fool who keeps silent isconsidered wise.
When he closes his lips, he isdeemed intelligence.
Proverbs 13, three.
Whoever guards his mouthpreserves his life.
He who opens wide, his lipscomes to ruin.

(41:09):
It's God telling us over andover again about controlling our
anger, controlling, controllingwhat we say, and it's just it.
It's, he's telling us what, um.
What he wants us to, what hewants us to know and how he
wants us to comport himself.

(41:29):
I mean, comport ourselves.
Speak with grace and kindness.
Let your speech always begracious season with salt so
that you may know you ought toanswer each person or how you
ought to answer each person.
That's Colossians four six,Proverbs 15, one, a soft answer,
turns away wrath.
But a harsh word stirs up anger,very similar to what we're what

(41:51):
we're just talking about.
Proverbs 17, 28, gracious wordsare like a honeycomb, sweetness
to the soul and health to thebody.
And then speak truth.
And for the needy, let nocorrupting talk come outta your
mouth.
But only such as is good forbuilding up as fits the occasion

(42:16):
that it may give grace to thosewho hear, who hear.
So he's telling us there, useyour mouth to lift people up,
not bring people down.
Go ahead,

Rich (42:27):
you know.
Yeah, no.
What I noticed on that is, um,when I, if I'm in like, you
know, that little bit of, kindof rattiness, you know, that
little bit of, um, you know, na,little bitchiness, whatever you
wanna call it, right?
I'm not sure how many of theseterms translate across the pond,
right?
But like, same.

(42:47):
That little bit of nastiness,you know, and it's like, I'm
like, you know, I might betalking with friends or, or even
my, my fiance, you know, or didyou see that guy?
Like, you know, he's, you know,doing this or doing that, or did
you hear what he said?
Or do you see, do you see thoseshoes?
Do you see those shoes

Speaker 3 (43:02):
that guy was wearing?
Who would go out the housewearing that?
Why would he wear those withthat?
What bit do you think he put onfirst?
Or, you know, like those kind ofthings, right?

Rich (43:10):
It doesn't feed my spirit.
You know, like it doesn't feedmy spirit.
Whereas when I can, even if Ithink those things, if I can
actually flip it, say somethingnice, look for the good in
people, or even just as you readout there in the proverbs,
right, just keep my mouth shut.
Yeah.
That feeds my spirit, you know?

(43:31):
That feeds my spirit 100%.
And another quote.
That springs to mind, pat from aslightly different sources.
The loudest man in the room isthe weakest man in the room, and
that is, uh, Frank Lucas in thefilm, American Gangster.
So I, yeah.
Good film, by the way.
What, what's that?

Pat (43:50):
I haven't, I, I haven't seen it.
I don't, I.
That, uh, I have the attentionspan of a gerbil, so I haven't
watched a lot.
I don't watch a lot of films,but that is true.
Um, and finally, just a fewmore.
It says, be mindful of the powerof your words.
Death and life are in the powerof the tongue, and those who
love, uh, it will eat.
It's fruits, uh, set a guard.

(44:13):
And that's, uh, Proverbs 1821.
Psalm 11 one, uh, I mean Psalm 141.
Three set a guard oh Lord, overmy mouth.
Keep watch over my lips.
I mean, it's just got over andover telling us how important
how we communicate.
And then out of the, uh, Matthew1234, out of the abundance of

(44:37):
the heart, his mouth speaks.
So back to kind of what you weresaying earlier, what's in your
mouth is what kind of comes out.
So it makes it easier whenyou've changed your heart or
you've changed, uh.
You know, you, you've changedthe way you think and you have,
have let the Holy Spirit takehold of your life.
That will reflect in what'scoming out and what you're

(44:57):
saying.
And also vice versa.
When you're not letting yourselfgetting angry, you're getting
more self-control than the HolySpirit's taken, uh, taken more,
uh, uh, more place, more hismore rightful place in, in, in
our lives.
And, uh, one other thing.
Communication is not just whatwe say, you know, it's not just,
you know, don't get angry.

(45:18):
Be careful of what you're sayingto people.
Be kind.
Always respond.
You know, you can say wars haveprobably started over what
people said.
If you respond to somebody in akind way and always realize God
is in trouble.
And I think what's happened whenyou and I and both of our lives
is the more peace that we hahave gotten all throughout our
lives.
We know Jesus is in control ofour lives.

(45:39):
I don't have to win someargument with somebody.
I don't have to make my point.
I don't.
It's not getting me anywhere.
You, you wanna live in peace andharm, in harmony with the Holy
Spirit.
Speak gently.
Speak kind, especially to thosethat you love.
Encourage people, lift peopleup.
You know, tell the, the youngperson I talked to, I mean, I

(45:59):
talked to this girl this weekand she was.
Saying, I, I just feel like ahorrible person.
And then she started listingthose things off and I started
asking her some other questionsabout herself, and I was like,
wait a second.
So you did this and you didthat, and I noticed that when
you walked in here, the way youcreated this person and you had
a smile on her face.
And I started listing all thesethings and, and she just lit up.

(46:20):
And then we started having thisconversation about God, about,
and she, I mean, the girl wasalmost in tears.
She just never really thoughtabout that.
She had a traumatic life.
She started telling me, well, itwas kind of traumatic growing
up.
Yeah.
Well, people probably haveprobably always told you about
the bad part.
Well, yeah.
I'm like, no, I've just observedall of these great things about
you, and that's who you reallyare.

(46:41):
See that big smile on your face,that's who you are.
And it was ironic because Godhad been tapping on her
shoulders.
She said, you know, I've beenthinking more and more about
God.
And then I was like, yeah, wellmaybe our conversation wasn't by
accident.
So, and it's not just, um.
It's not just verbal a lot oftimes, like road.
Do you guys have a lot of roadrage in, uh, in England?

Rich (47:05):
Which road?
Road road

Pat (47:07):
rage?
Do you know what road rage is?
Road rage.
Rage?

Rich (47:09):
Yeah.
No, we have a lot of road ragein this, in this country.
In fact, I, like, I, I'm, youknow, at least in public Clark,
pretty calm.
Um, you know, behind closeddoors.
Not always, but at least inpublic, fairly calm.
But one thing that will get,like, I've stalked people, you
know.
You know, like, you know, like,like, you know, like just raging

(47:30):
about and like, I can't fight,you know, like far from it, you
know what I mean?
Like if actually, you know, theone of these encounters ever
came to something, but like whensomeone's like, flipped me off
or, you know, whatever, likebecause of some.
Poor decision I've made on theroad, like I con consumed with
rage, you know?
But, you know, I mean, I'venever got outta the car and

(47:50):
beating anyone up, but, yeah,no, there's plenty of that.
Like you see, you see plenty ofthat on the, on the UK roads.
We have a lot less gums though,so it, it, it, that makes it, it
puts a very different slot onit.

Pat (48:03):
Yeah.
Not pointing the, the arstarting popping off rounds.

Rich (48:06):
Yeah.
When I was in Mississippi, Iwas, you know, fascinated.
I'm fascinated by like gunculture, you know, and I was
driving down the road with afriend in a, you know, who had a
very large, very large truck.
Um, you know, the size of some,you know, like people live in
smaller apartments than that.
In, in my country, that's astatus, that's

Pat (48:26):
a status symbol in Mississippi that don't, don't
show up in the m bmw in theBenz, you show up in the Ford F
two 50 double cab, there's asuccessful man.

Rich (48:35):
Yeah, I'm fascinated by gun culture.
But, um, the, you know, the, Iwas asking my friend about it
and he said, oh, I always, youknow, I always carry a gun.
I'll feel naked if I, if Ihaven't got one.
And, um, I said, can I ask you aquestion?
And he said, yeah, yeah.
And I was like, why?
And, um, and he.
He's, you know, he spoke about,you know, obviously it's
culturally very different andyou know, there's a lot more

(48:57):
threats from other people thathave got guns, so you carry a
gun and you know, so on and soforth.
Right.
But he said a polite soci, anarmed society is a polite
society.
So it really gave me somethingto think about.
Yeah.

Pat (49:12):
Something, uh, because, you know, there might be, might be
consequences if you saysomething to, to the, to the
wrong person.
I stopped having bro offs in, inbars when I was young.
Uh, you know what a bro off is?
You know, you have no intentionof fighting a guy, but.
You're going to show everybodyhow tough you are.
'cause I was in a bar like whenI was 19 years old, and I saw

(49:34):
this guy mouth off to this otherguy that I knew was a really
tough hombre in the town that Ilived in.
And about three minutes later,this guy was on the floor.
There was teeth on the ground.
I mean, I, I don't wanna get grbut it was, I was like, oh my
gosh, this is what could happenif you say the wrong thing to
the, to the wrong person.
So I kind of, um, I learned todon't, don't, uh, don't let my

(49:56):
alligator mouth.
Uh, you know, get, get me in,get me into trouble.
But yeah, on the road rage, thatwhat I was saying, a lot of
times it's because.
We're assuming that this personis intentionally disrespecting
us.
You know, it's like you said,it's just the way the person
reacted.
In Mississippi, people are verypa in the south, you're very,

(50:17):
very polite.
Somebody pulls up, you'll letthem go.
If the, if the gr, if the, thelight turns green and the person
is on their phone, you give it alittle love, tap on the horn.
You know, like a little PPP justhate light green up north.
You know, when I was living inNew York, that's not the case.
In fact, no.
Mm.
Eh, eh, I mean, if the lightthought about turning green,
just, eh, they, uh, you know, itwas just a, it was an aggressive

(50:41):
type thing, but I just think alot of times we assume, and I
meant to mention that earlier inall other conversations about
personality and relationships,and, uh, we do a lot of,
assuming you assume that thisother person is coming from a
place that they're not, thatwill get you into a lot of
trouble.
I see the Richard brain going,or you're about to say

(51:01):
something.

Rich (51:02):
I was just, you were talking about the difference
between driving in the South anddriving up in New York.
Right.
And um, when I moved, I was, asyou know, I was living out of
London for, uh, you know, justunder a year until quite
recently.
And, um, so in London you, youdrive in a certain way, right.
'cause you, you know, like you,you need to, you need to put out
on people, you know, you needto, you need to push in,

(51:23):
otherwise you're, you're notgonna get anywhere.
Right.
And, um, and then I was livingoutta London and, um, I.
I had this moment where I neededto, I was in the wrong lane.
I needed to get into the nextlane, you know, to, to kind of
come off where I needed to comeoff, right?
And I, I looked in my mirror andI was like, yeah, I can make
that.
And I shot out.
And the guy behind me, like B,like, what are you doing?

(51:43):
Know what I mean?
And I, and I, I realized thatactually, like if I'd waiting
for him to go past, there wasnothing but emp empty his face
behind him.
You know, all I had to do waswait like two, two seconds.
Yeah.
And I, I thought actually, Idon't, I don't need, this is
perfectly normal in London, whatI just did, but like.
I don't need to do that.
I don't need to drive like thathere, you know?

(52:04):
And, um, but then he bited meand he was again, and he was
obviously quite unhappy.
So then I stalked him for a bit,you know, then I stalked him for
a

Pat (52:11):
bit.
You tailgating him a little bit.
Well, well, a, a lot of timesthough, like I said, you, you,
um.
You, you assumed that thatperson cut up.
That person might not have evenseen you or whatever, but you're
assuming that you just gotdisrespected.
So,

Speaker 3 (52:29):
yeah, and actually even just thinking about it now,
actually, it's probably like abit shaken

Rich (52:32):
up.
Do you know what I mean?
'cause he'd had to slam hisbrakes on to avoid a collision.
'cause some guy in front of himhas just made a completely
unnecessary maneuver.
You know, I'm actually, that'svery different, isn't it?
It's a very different slant to,to put on it.
But yeah, anyway,

Pat (52:47):
I, yeah, I, I just, I, I've always thought that, but it's
still, it's communication.
If you can, you know, if aperson can master what we're
talking about today and the, thescriptures that we read, that
this is what God's telling us.
He's telling us how importantcommunication is, but I've just
learned that you can add so muchpeace.
To yourself, to your life, tothose around you.

(53:08):
You can be an uplifter, you canbe an encourager.
Uh, and also what you're sayingto yourself.
So, uh, the tongue andcommunicating verbally and
non-verbally, uh, is soincredibly important that if
people.
Paid attention to it and learnto master it.
It will help you tremendous, uh,tremendously in your life.

(53:29):
And I think we can leave itthere.
Rich, uh, do you have any finalthoughts or

Rich (53:35):
that's it, Patrick.
That's it.
Nothing more for me today.
I think thank you for sharingwhat you shared about, you know,
those experiences with yourfather.
I was thinking, um, that perhapsanother, an alternative title
for this podcast could be the,um, the secret psychoanalysis of
Pat McCall.
You know, as each session goespast, I feel like, you know,

(53:56):
like you, this has given youspace to really start to unpack
some, some things about, aboutyour childhood and, um, so.
It's been, you know, it's aworthwhile endeavor.
Even if we all, even if all weare doing is giving you some,
some, some free counselingbetween me and Beverly.

Pat (54:11):
That's me

Rich (54:12):
and Beverly.

Pat (54:12):
Yeah.
Y'all, you're, you're getting,you, you're on to me there.
Rich.
You, when, when we get toepisode 100, I'm writing a book
and this is all, I'm justworking the angles here, you
know?
I'm working.
Are you, are

Speaker 3 (54:24):
you, are you even putting these out?

Pat (54:29):
Yeah.
I didn't even check.
I'm not even publishing these.
I'm going in analyzing, pullingthe laptop up, you know, sending
draft to Simon and Schuster.
I'm like, I'm working on it.
I'm like, this guy is giving meall of this stuff for

Rich (54:41):
free.
It's gold, man.
It's gold.

Pat (54:43):
It's, you know how much he charges an hour and he just
comes on here for like a halfhour.
I'm taking him away.
I'm probably causing trouble inhis marriage, you know?
He said, but uh, but it's allgonna pay off from them.
I'll give him a little creditdown, down at the bottom off
credit, you know, RichardTurrell.
So, uh, so there it is, man.
Well, I do appreciate your time.

(55:04):
Uh, say hello, uh, to yourlovely bride and we will see you
next time.
And to everybody out there, uh,encourage somebody.
Watch what you say and watch howyou say it and watch what you
say to yourself and how you sayit and you'll see your life
improve exponentially.
That's a big word, rich.

Rich (55:22):
It is a big word, pat.
Well done.
Well done man.
Proud, proud of you, brother.

Pat (55:28):
I'm working on that too.
Alright man.
We'll see you and God blesseverybody out there.
God bless.
Bye.