July 17, 2025 • 32 mins
Richard and Pat complete Richard's story, discussing details of Richard's path from trauma and addiction to a life of joy, peace and strength as a follower of Jesus.
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(00:20):
Welcome back to the twoChristian podcast.
I am Pat McCool coming to youfrom the Banks of a lake in the
deep woods of South Mississippi.
And now to my good buddy.
Across the ocean Esteempsychotherapist and addiction
specialist Richard Turrell.
(00:42):
Richard, how you doing buddy?
I am All right, uncle Pat.
It's nice to see you.
Doing all right.
Thank you.
We've got some sunshine overhere, which is, uh, you know,
not an everyday occurrence, so,yeah.
Doing all right.
Thank you.
Well, that's what I waswondering.
We're entering summer over here,so when does summer begin in
England?
About the same time.
Yeah.
We're the, we're the same sortof, same side of, like, above
(01:05):
the equator, just like you, samelatitude there?
Yeah.
Well, I think it's slightlydifferent because the, the
weather report in SouthMississippi starting now to
October, last about 30 minutes,30 seconds.
It's like in the weather today.
It's either gonna be hot, hot asHades.
(01:27):
Unbearable might be some storms,might be some tornadoes.
So watch out for mobile homesflying through the air.
Back to you at the news desk,Nigel.
I.
Yeah, so we don't have tocontend with all of that.
We don't have the humidity thatyou guys have.
Um, so yeah, it's like ser Ithink it's nice.
We obviously, we have a lot lesstrailers as well, so Yeah, we
(01:51):
don't have to worry about thatquite as much.
You don't, I understand.
I mean, 80% of the housing stockin Mississippi, 80%.
There you go.
Stereo.
Yeah, I live in a castle.
I live in a castle, so it's muchmore, it's much more solid.
I got you.
Um, I did notice on the, the,what they call holiday in
(02:16):
England on the beach, they hadthese trailers.
Do they do that?
Like these little campers?
Oh, like, yeah, like camper van.
And that's, and that's whatpeople do holiday in.
Huh?
Well, like some, like a minorityof people.
Like, like not, not many.
(02:36):
It's not something you've everdone, huh?
No.
Yeah, I kind of wondered.
So the, uh.
Phoebe, the other day, I wasexchanging email For those of
y'all that don't know, whenRichard and I get together, I'm
a comedian, so I work aboutthree hours a week and the
travel's really the only thing Ihave to schedule.
But when I'm not doing anything,I'm just.
(02:58):
Not doing anything.
Richard, on the other hand, is aquite in demand individual.
So when I schedule with Richard,I have to talk to his, he has
people and his people is PhoebeUnwin, which to my British
friends, listening's not a bigdeal, but in the South, Phoebe
Unwins a pretty cool name and,um.
(03:21):
She's a wonderful person.
Seems very lovable, but when weexchanged emails the other day,
I wished her a happy weekend andshe said the sun has its hat on.
So it looks like we're in for alovely weekend.
Just outta curiosity.
What would the Sun has its haton mean?
Well, it's a, it's a song for,you know, like a kid song.
(03:43):
The Sun has, I'm not gonna singit Pat, but it's like the son,
he's got his Go ahead.
I bet you it's a talent youdidn't know you had.
I dunno, man.
I dunno.
Um.
I'm gonna do it.
The sun has got his hat on.
The sun has got his hat on, andhe's coming out to play.
Ah, see it's a kid.
It's a kid song.
Okay.
(04:03):
I didn't know that.
I'm thinking the sun has its haton.
It's not gonna shine that much,but it's actually a kid song.
Oh no.
That means it's like the, thesun's out.
The sun, the sun's out has itshat on.
Fantastic.
Maybe if I like strum on a banjowhile I.
Would that help at all?
(04:25):
Yeah.
Well, we have the nursery rhymeswithout the banjos, but, well,
it's good to see you and thanksto you all that are joining us.
Again, if you didn't hear us inthe first episode, we are the
two unlikely Christians.
Uh, we both lived a life of, uh,had a very inauspicious start to
life.
(04:45):
That's a big word, Richard.
Just let you, I'm, you know,you're rubbing off on me getting
a little sophisticated but wehad, uh, we had quite the
struggles coming up and, um, itwas all changed by our encounter
and, uh, and following JesusChrist.
And we have a passion to, sharethat with other people.
(05:07):
So they can have the sameexperience.
And we, thought a good way tostart our podcast would be to
tell you the back stories, uh,each one of our back stories.
So you'd know where we werecoming from, and some of you may
relate.
And we were going to, in thefirst episode, we were, Richard
was gonna tell his story, andthen I was gonna tell my story,
uh, and then Richard startedtalking and, uh, uh oh.
(05:30):
Oh wow.
One.
So, so we never got to minebecause Richards kept dropping
bombs that I did.
You know, we've known each otherfor a while and talked a bit and
maybe a lesson for me that Italked too much because I didn't
know a lot of this stuff whenmy, wife is listening in the
other room and, I hear, oh, wow.
(05:51):
Oh wow.
Oh, wait, hold up.
You can't just drop that andthen move on.
Wait.
Father had a family across town.
Now this, okay, now we'rewriting movies here.
So, um, anyway, we want to kindof rehash that and go back to
the beginning.
So if I can, Richard,'cause I dohave some questions.
(06:12):
Just to recap, you started off,uh, and what you called a middle
class family.
Yeah.
Well, you have a father that'san attorney turned into a judge.
Mother.
That's a doctor, and the statesthat's of crust above or so
(06:33):
middle class.
So I don't know.
But you know, if you considerthat middle class in England, in
other words, you had a prettyprosperous upbringing, would
that be safe?
Yeah, I look, I think those,both of those professions in
England, uh, are less than theydo in America.
Um, I, I think, you know,because our medical system is
(06:55):
not like all private like yoursis so.
Doctors earn less lawyers,attorneys, as you call'em, like
definitely earn less.
Um, so, you know, like it is abit different.
We would like probably hoveredsomewhere between kind of lower
and middle, um, lower and uppermiddle class.
Like, you know, if that's thedistinction.
(07:15):
So like, we lived in a house, itwas a nice house that had five
bedrooms.
It wasn't.
Palatial, you know, we had twocars on the drive.
They weren't like brand newMercedes-Benz, you know, like it
was, it was, no, it was not.
We, we were com we definitelydidn't go hungry.
We had nice holidays.
Mom and dad had pensions andstuff like that, you know, it
was, but wa was kind of a, whatYou weren't just low balling.
It was kind of middle, middleclass, you know?
(07:36):
I mean, and not every judge ordoctor over here is a.
Extremely wealthy, but it is a,pretty lucrative profession over
here, but, mm.
Uh, so you, you had that goodupbringing, but the bad side.
Um, and you mentioned that youloved your father.
You have great admiration forhim, work ethic, you know, what
he provided.
(07:57):
Uh, but he was a flawed man,correct?
He was very, he had many, manyflaws.
Yeah, many flaws.
Uh, and it was abusive.
Abusive towards, towards yourmother?
Uh, abusive towards you, did yousay?
Yeah.
Violent.
Yeah.
Violent.
So you had a violent upbringing,um, kind of forced your mother
(08:22):
into a shell., Is what?
I took from that.
So it kind of pushed her intodrinking and kind of recoiling.
Uh, is that safe?
Well, I think, look, she had adrink problem.
I think she had a drink problemcoming into the marriage.
You know, from what I've beenable to piece together, I don't
think that the relationship withmy dad helped her in any, in any
way.
(08:43):
You know, my dad was a lot,definitely quite controlling,
domineering, um.
You know, as you've kind ofalluded to at the start of this
episode, you know, had along-term affair, you know, so,
and I think my mom was aware,well, I know actually my mom was
aware of that, and for whateverreason, she didn't feel able to
leave the marriage.
So she was very much, um, I.
(09:06):
I think she felt, I don't thinkshe was, I think she felt very
trapped in that relationship.
And I think my dad did, uh,chisel away her self-esteem.
Some, yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
But, uh, I think, I mean,knowing what I know about how
people tick, you don't end up ina relationship like that'cause
you are playing with a full deckin the first place, you know?
(09:26):
Right.
Right.
So, so that, it wasn't reallythat she, that he kind of pushed
her into it.
She, she was flawed to, to startwith.
Oh yeah, definitely like that.
It is like, it's like that kindof chicken and egg stuff, you
know?
It's like you attract what you,you know what you are, it's
like, we put out, you know, whatwe put out, we get back, you
know, it's like when I wasdeeply unhealthy and broken, and
(09:49):
damaged and, and all that, andhadn't done any work on myself.
The, you know, the women I waswith.
Like that basically, you know,you, you, you kind of attract,
uh, you, you kind of attract thesame people.
So the bottom line was you, itwas a very dysfunctional home.
And, you just weren't, youweren't feeling love growing up.
(10:11):
Yeah, it was, there was anabsence of love and an absence
of emotional attunement and anabsence of, you know, feelings
weren't welcome.
There was a lot of anger.
I.
You know, the, a lot of anxiety,a lot of unspoken feelings, un
felt disowned anger, or it waslike a soup, you know, and
(10:32):
dishonesty and addiction was inthere, and then me and my
brother were just, as a kid.
Yeah, as a kid, you just, sorry,I didn't mean to interrupt you
as a kid.
You just, you just, were notfeeling the love.
I see kids today and it justbreaks my heart because.
You're so impressionable at thattime.
You're born, you've got thislove in you.
You're looking for the joy andacceptance.
(10:54):
You love your parents.
And then, and there's littleRichard not feeling it.
You were meant to be loved.
God designed us this way, butyou weren't feeling it at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's fair.
And so that let, that leads youdown a path.
Uh, you start withdrawing, asyou said, you lived in your
(11:15):
head.
Uh, which is actually a phrasethat I've used before that I can
relate to.
And so you just kind of formedyour own life, which started
early.
Getting into trouble, you said?
I.
Yeah.
Taking drugs.
Selling drugs.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Misbehaving.
Yeah.
Just, just getting in trouble.
(11:38):
Were you skipping school, thingslike that?
Or you just, just e Every, bythe time I was about 15 or 16, I
was skipping school, um, by the,when I was 13, I started with
the drugs.
Um, by the time I was 14, I wasdefinitely taking something.
To change the way I felt everyday.
Right.
Um, selling very small amount ofdrugs by the time I was 14.
(12:00):
Um, selling more drugs by thetime I was 16, selling not
insignificant amount of drugs bythe time I was 19 or 20.
Definitely.
So you're feeling, and one thingyou said your father had a
another family.
Yeah.
So it came out.
After my dad's death in 2020.
(12:20):
I mean, we all knew there was anaffair.
Like that was obvious.
Um, my mom knew she'd talk aboutit when she was drunk, um, about
his affair.
Yeah.
Um, you know, my mom really wasAllman who really like lived in
the kind of victim position.
Uh, and um, so she would sort oflament.
(12:41):
Her situation and dad, and therewas this other woman, and it was
also terrible.
And I mean, she would neveractually do anything about any
of this, but she was, but shewas So you kids knew it, it was
common knowledge.
Yeah, it was known.
And, but we didn't know theextent of it.
We, you know, and then dad diedand, and they, you know, his
will was read and, um, and therewas another house, you know,
there was another, this otherwoman was named in there, and
(13:03):
then clearing the house out.
We found pictures and.
You know, a little bit of kindof investigation and some kind
of disclosures by a familyfriend, like, yeah, there's a
daughter, you know, that I'vegot a half sister that I found
out about like under a year ago,so, yeah, a lot of, A lot of
secrets, man.
A lot of secrets came out, youknow?
(13:26):
Have you met the sister?
No, I reached out to the mom.
That's whatever, mistress, afair partner, whatever you wanna
call her.
Um, I, I tried to reach out toher via the solicitors.
'cause you know, like theattorneys lot office that had to
deal with, obviously this housethat he shared with her and
(13:47):
shared ownership of with her waspart of his estate.
So they, the solicitors had todeal with her.
I asked them to.
Ask if she would talk to me, youknow?
Um, just wanting to know.
I don't know, just wanting toknow, like, just wanted to kind
of get some kind ofunderstanding of who she was
and, you know, that kind ofthing.
(14:08):
Um, you know, obviously it was abig part of my dad's life, um,
and, uh, but yeah, she, she'snever responded to those, those
efforts to contact her.
So there, there's been a couple,so I've never had the
opportunity to speak to her ormy sister.
Was, uh, did, did that give youa feeling of rejection?
(14:30):
Did you know that he was, hadthe affair?
I guess you didn't know aboutthe family until you got older.
So you had already gone througha lot of life changes.
It made grieving through him.
Very complicated.
You know, he died, he died quitetragically.
He was 69.
He had a huge stroke.
Um, he died like four monthslater.
(14:50):
You know, and he spent fourmonths in the hospital severely,
mentally and physicallyincapacitated.
And it was a very, verydifficult time for my family.
Um, you know, it's shocking,awful, horrifying.
And you're finding all of thisout while this is happening.
We found all of it out about twoweeks after it had passed.
So all of the grief, um.
(15:12):
It just got mixed up with a loadof anger, rejection, betrayal,
and that was very complicated.
And, and the other factor, pat,that made it, made it very tough
was that, uh, we buried myfather on the Wednesday and on
the Friday.
This was in March, 2020.
So on the Friday, two days afterhis funeral, the UK went into
the first national lockdown.
(15:33):
And, uh, and then so, I mean, Icould cry even just thinking
about that, so, so sort ofdealing with all of that grief
in lockdown.
Very isolated.
Yeah, it was tough, man.
It was a tough time Backing upin your teen years.
(15:56):
While this was going on, asyou're growing up, you know,
under the violence and the lackof love in the house, you got
into gang activities, sellingdrugs.
You mentioned in there gettingstabbed.
And yeah, it weren't like, itwas a lot, it was a lot tamer
than that.
Like, it, it just like, youknow, selling drugs to friends,
(16:16):
you know.
Um, later on in my twenties Igot stabbed.
That was, I mean, really pat, Iwas just, I was, I.
You know, I was selling drugs inmore, significant quantities
and, up to, you know, variouskind of things really to make
money.
And, um, you know, there was, Iwas trying to collect some money
(16:36):
that was owed to me and thepeople that owed it, um, weren't
very through.
It weren't.
Happy about the way that I wentabout it.
And, um, I, I love the way youtt about the way you were trying
to collect their money.
Yeah, so it was like a longstory.
(16:56):
I mean, ultimately the long, thetruth, you know, I could make, I
could talk about it and make itall sound very kind of like
gangstery, right?
But like the truth is like, Iwas a, basically in a world that
I didn't belong in pretending tobe something that I wasn't.
And I got found out, you know, Iwas owed some money.
I engaged like a debt collector,like quite a nasty but nasty
person to go and collect thatmoney.
(17:18):
Um, he gave them 24 hours topay.
They didn't want to pay.
Um, so, and like a group of mencame to my front door and, um,
I, you know, opened the frontdoor was grabbed, beaten, put
over the, well the bonnet of acar, I dunno what you call it,
the hood of a car and stabbed inthe, in the stomach area.
(17:41):
Um, so yeah, that was in 2005.
I was 25 years old.
Oh, did you say you almost bledout?
I didn't bleed out.
Um, I was, I mean, it was adangerous situation.
Oh yeah.
I had very serious internalinjuries, like my intestines
were sliced up and my pancreasand I, I ended up in hospital,
(18:02):
um, a few hours later'cause Iwas high and drunk and I, you
know, I didn't, I couldn't feel,I didn't feel any pain and I was
full of, you know, booze andcoke and bravado and, uh, I, I
went.
Found my friends in a bar, youknow, told'em what happened.
(18:23):
They, they were like, you needto go to the hospital.
I was like, I'm fine.
I'm not gonna hospital.
And then a few hours later, um,yeah, just this incredible pain.
Um, this kind of, it was verysmall stab wound.
It was obviously a very deepknife wound.
And, um, just trying to send amessage.
They were, they.
They had had enough of you, theyweren't just trying to send a
(18:44):
message.
They, they could have easilykilled you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I was like, you know, the,the, um, the doctors that
operated on me said it was, youknow, close, you know, like kind
of another half hour.
It would've been beyond thepoint of no return through,
through all of that, did youever have.
A feeling because through allthe mine, which we'll get to in
(19:06):
the next episode, there alwaysseemed to be something there.
You didn't grow up going intochurch, going to church, or have
any relationship with God, oryou're just out there on your
own.
You're not breeding by, you'renot learning it.
You're just out there.
Was there ever, uh, anythingthat you just felt like
something might have beenlooking over me?
(19:28):
Not at a time on reflection.
You know, I, um.
There were times, uh, through mytwenties where I would be, I
would pray'cause I felt Whatcaused you?
What caused you to startpraying?
I just felt so lost, just feltlike, like my life felt so out
of control.
(19:48):
So like I would kind of turn tosomething.
I always had a belief I neverfelt, you know, when I look back
on it, I think, yeah, I musthave been being looked after in
some way.
I had an experience after Icame, not long after I came into
the faith where I was at achurch in, uh, in West London
where, uh, where the, the manwho evangelized me, a, a guy
called Dan Stanley, who is, itis just been such a huge.
(20:11):
Part of my journey.
How did you come to that manevangelizing you?
Is what I'm getting is kind ofwhat I'm getting at?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, well, that jumps about abit Pat, like, let me just say
this bit.
So I was at this church and likethis where there was a preacher
from America and um, uh.
She was doing, they, you know,I'd done the auto call at the
(20:32):
end and, and, you know, everyonekind of queued up to go and see
her.
And, um, I was a bit more likereserved and self-conscious
around my faith then, and Ididn't really want to do it, but
my friend kind of made me.
And uh, and she took me by thehands, man.
And she, and she, you know, sheshut her eyes and, and, and she,
she just said, it's like, Icould cry saying this.
(20:53):
She just said like, he's alwaysbeen with you.
Like he's always been with you.
You just, you just need to liketo let him in sort of thing.
And um, you know, and that,yeah, I guess that's where I'm
at with it now.
Like, he was always there.
That's what I'm, that's what I'mdriving at through all of my
struggles.
And when I looked back, Istarted realizing because he was
(21:16):
with you the day you werestabbed, he was with you when
you were the struggling,struggling, Richard.
Uh, but you what I was get, howdid you first go to a church?
Were you some, something istalking to you that got you to
the person that's evangelizingyou, that got you to the church?
Just briefly, is it anindividual or you're just
(21:37):
thinking, I, this is something'spulling me to, to go to the
church?
Something's pulling me to look.
I was like from a place of likebrokenness, like, you know, like
it says in the AA book, youknow, beaten into a state of
reasonableness, right?
So like, I, um, was clean, but Iwas in the grip of, uh, quite a
(21:57):
nasty sex addiction and I again,just reached a point of
brokenness and, um.
My friend Dan had been aChristian for a few years, was
very much on that path, but he'dnever, when I say evangelized
me, in a way, pat did it withoutsaying a word.
Yeah.
It was just the power of hisexample, you know?
(22:19):
And, um.
Then my sponsor at that time isstill my sponsor now, actually.
Um, he was also a Christian.
Him and Dan were friends andthey just saw that those, they
just had something that I didn'thave, you know, and, and, and it
was very attractive to me.
And, um, and then when I, youknow, I was just really hit a
(22:40):
rock bottom.
With my sex addiction.
And I phone down and said, youknow, there was a Christian
recovery group, um, we have aChristian recovery group over
there called Believers inRecovery.
And he was going to a believersmeeting that night.
And I called him and was like,where's the meeting?
You know?
And uh, and he told me and Iwent and I crawled in.
(23:00):
That was, that was what broughtme into faith ultimately, was
that.
That's what put you in a lot.
And to back up to one thing, youkind of skipped past the, it was
the dysfunctional, you know,quite a horrible childhood and
then you quickly transitionedand you said, I.
And then I got into myprofession, started making a lot
(23:23):
of money.
I mean, you, you made a quickjump from almost dying on the
street, uh, to becoming a verysuccessful psychotherapist.
How did you go from all of thatto, uh.
Ending up at Bath University?
I've heard of that.
Well, yeah.
I mean, I did, there was a bitin the middle that I did mention
(23:45):
it.
It's like I walked through thedoors of a 12 step meeting.
That's the truth.
At, at what age?
29.
Yeah.
29.
You went to university at 29.
No, I went to university at 32.
Uh uh, no, I went to universityat 34.
I went, I walked through thedoors of my first 12 step
meeting when I was 29.
I got clean and stayed cleanwhen I was 32, and then, so when
(24:09):
I was two years clean, I tookmyself off to university and
educated myself.
As you were getting step, wereyou starting a relationship with
God along the way that led youto university or you did that on
your own?
I've been through the steps, soobviously there's, you know,
like I know the 12 steps aremuch more widely known in the US
(24:29):
than they are here, uh, where itcan still feel like a bit of a
niche thing, but, um, it.
Like I was open to spiritualmatters.
Yeah.
I didn't have a Christian faith.
I've heard the aa, the Godthat's described in the AA book,
uh, called uh, like a pseudoChristian God because of the
(24:50):
language they use in that book.
That's probably where I was kindof at at the time.
Yeah.
So it wasn't the belief in Jesusactually quite resistant to the
idea of Jesus, but open to theidea of God, you know?
Um, I mean, I think that's aninteresting point that'll, you
know, that resistance to theidea of Jesus would be something
for us to talk about later, butI, yeah.
Well, yeah, we will.
Because I have noticed you starttalking to somebody about God
(25:13):
and, and they're quick to, ohyes, I believe in God.
Oh yeah.
God's, when you say Jesus, thethings kind of get quiet.
They recoil.
There's lot.
Ooh.
And it's like, what?
Like, you know, like, okay, nowI think what?
Like, what is that all about?
It's God.
Oh, the man upstairs.
(25:34):
Oh yes, I believe in God.
Oh yes, I got, you know, butwhen you say Jesus, there's
something about that, all of asudden the room thickens up.
So, yeah.
And it's, I I think it's, um,just a word on that.
I think it's remarkable when Ilook at it, right?
It's like say in London, likesay in, in, in Oxford Street or
(25:54):
one, you know our big centralshopping street, right?
You have all differentreligions.
Yeah.
Right.
You have people, you know, HarryKrishnas, like Islam, Buddhists,
Hindus, giving out literature,at different times, giving out
literature and so on and soforth.
Now, like when I walked pastthem, this is before I came to
Faith, when I walked past them.
(26:15):
I knew they were different tome, but I didn't really, I
didn't recoil from them when Isaw a man on the corner with a
sign saying Jesus saves, right?
Like preaching.
I recoiled from it right now.
Like that, that really interestsme and like, you know, the
conclusion I come to is like,it's the enemy man.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like.
Well, you're being controlled bythe enemy and the enemy.
(26:37):
'cause both of us up till thatpoint, we're being controlled
by, influenced by Satan.
He's real.
And so we're being influenced.
And so when we hear that, youhear that, it's like, no, no,
no.
Back, back, back.
You know, you can say the wordGod.
'cause that can mean a lot ofthings to a lot of people.
When you say Jesus, you've nowgotten.
Specific and what's ruling ourlives.
All of a sudden, you've justmentioned the enemy, so that's
(26:58):
probably what it is.
Uh, we're getting a little shorton time because, uh, the lovely
Phoebe young one said, you, youhave a meeting to run to.
Uh, but I want, so you end up.
It, it's very remarkable thatyou did all this on your own.
You kept fighting, you keptworking to overcome.
I, you should be incrediblyproud.
You're 29 something years old.
(27:20):
You're not throwing your handsin the air.
You keep going back, keepfighting, you keep you getting
in the ditch and coming back andkeep pursuing a life.
Personally, I think.
God's in your life.
Jesus in your life.
He was watching you all of yourlife, but you make this
determination, you go to school.
Bath I've heard of BathUniversity and I Googled it,
(27:41):
that only 10% of the applicantsget admitted to Bath.
And you're one of those, so youhad a lot on the ball and there
was a lot of hard work thatwent, all that went into all of
that.
So you were always striving to,overcome and so as you go
through this, you become asuccessful professional.
You get married, the void isstill there because we're all
(28:03):
meant to be loved.
It's there, the void is there.
You're not feeling the love, thethings keep manifesting
themselves in your life.
Correct.
So you keep the destruction.
You're upwardly mobile in yourlife.
You are pursuing it, but thatvoid is still there.
You haven't really acceptedJesus.
Then you end up in the desert inArizona where you meet the man
(28:26):
who introduces you.
To the guy that changes yourlife?
Is that what happened?
Yeah.
Like, so there was, I'd come tofaith, like I'd been baptized.
Yeah.
Like, but it, it was like, youknow, an old FM radio and you
tune it in and you just can'tget the frequency, you know, so
(28:48):
it's.
And you can hear the voice, butit's just not quite there.
Right?
So it was like, it was a bitlike that, right?
Like things had changed for me.
Like I knew that, that I knewthat, you know, I just knew that
Jesus was the son of God, thathe died on the cross Christ
sins, that he rose again threedays later and ascended to sit
with a father, right?
I knew that to be true and I gotbaptized on that basis, but I
(29:08):
was still riddled with, um, withcompulsive sexual behavior is
the truth, you know?
And, um, and then so that causeda huge.
Explosion in my life and it wasvery painful and you know, very
painful for the people aroundme, you know, including my, my
ex-wife, and, um.
(29:30):
Then I went to Arizona and thatwas where things really started
to change, you know, that'swhere things really started to
change.
And that, that's, that's reallywhere the story, that's really
where it, it picks up some pace.
Not that, I mean obviously Ithink you got, you think it's
got quite a bit of pace anyway,but, um, it, it's pace there.
Richard, you dropped a few bombsalong the way.
Uh, as I said, yeah, go ahead.
(29:50):
Change again when we get toArizona for sure, man.
Well, it changed when you hadthat moment that we talked
about, like in my book where youjust gave it all up.
Let Jesus come into your life.
And that's led us to this momentand it's led you to the peace
and the happiness, and that'swhat we're trying to share with
everyone else.
Uh, you've had a moment that yourealized all your life, young
(30:15):
Richards sitting in that housein his tears and all of his
stress and all of his pain.
He was there, he was watching,he was there when you were
bleeding.
He was making sure that bladedidn't touch the right, uh, the
right organ, and he was with youthe entire time and just
waiting.
And that's the way I.
(30:36):
God works.
That's the way Jesus works.
He's waiting for you.
But, but he was, whoever toldyou that he was with you all
your life and we'll illustratehow he was with me in the next
episode.
So, he was there and I, there'sprobably some people out there
that can relate to your story alittle bit.
They might have missed out onthe almost bleeding out and the
(30:58):
father with the second family.
But the same struggles.
So.
Alright, appreciate you sharingthat, rich.
I will, talk to you next weekand, hopefully the sun has its
hat on and you can have a lovelyweekend in the UK and, uh, love
you man.
Talk to you next time.
I.
Nice one.
Watch out for those tornadoes,pat.
See you next time.
(31:18):
I, we have shelters.
We hide when they come.
Right.
Excellent.
Yeah, we have trailers and wehave trailers underground to
help us not get hit by thetrailers flying through the air
when the tornadoes come.
So all the essentials in there.
You've got the moonshine, stillgot merch ban, spare banjo
strings.
(31:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Keep us up.
Not a jerky.
That's it.
Alright brother.
Alright, see you next time.
See you next time.
Bye mate.
Take care.
Bye.
Welcome back to the twoChristian podcast.
I am Pat McCool coming to youfrom the Banks of a lake in the
deep woods of South Mississippi.
And now to my good buddy.
Across the ocean Esteempsychotherapist and addiction
specialist Richard Turrell.
(00:42):
Richard, how you doing buddy?
I am All right, uncle Pat.
It's nice to see you.
Doing all right.
Thank you.
We've got some sunshine overhere, which is, uh, you know,
not an everyday occurrence, so,yeah.
Doing all right.
Thank you.
Well, that's what I waswondering.
We're entering summer over here,so when does summer begin in
England?
About the same time.
Yeah.
We're the, we're the same sortof, same side of, like, above
(01:05):
the equator, just like you, samelatitude there?
Yeah.
Well, I think it's slightlydifferent because the, the
weather report in SouthMississippi starting now to
October, last about 30 minutes,30 seconds.
It's like in the weather today.
It's either gonna be hot, hot asHades.
(01:27):
Unbearable might be some storms,might be some tornadoes.
So watch out for mobile homesflying through the air.
Back to you at the news desk,Nigel.
I.
Yeah, so we don't have tocontend with all of that.
We don't have the humidity thatyou guys have.
Um, so yeah, it's like ser Ithink it's nice.
We obviously, we have a lot lesstrailers as well, so Yeah, we
(01:51):
don't have to worry about thatquite as much.
You don't, I understand.
I mean, 80% of the housing stockin Mississippi, 80%.
There you go.
Stereo.
Yeah, I live in a castle.
I live in a castle, so it's muchmore, it's much more solid.
I got you.
Um, I did notice on the, the,what they call holiday in
(02:16):
England on the beach, they hadthese trailers.
Do they do that?
Like these little campers?
Oh, like, yeah, like camper van.
And that's, and that's whatpeople do holiday in.
Huh?
Well, like some, like a minorityof people.
Like, like not, not many.
(02:36):
It's not something you've everdone, huh?
No.
Yeah, I kind of wondered.
So the, uh.
Phoebe, the other day, I wasexchanging email For those of
y'all that don't know, whenRichard and I get together, I'm
a comedian, so I work aboutthree hours a week and the
travel's really the only thing Ihave to schedule.
But when I'm not doing anything,I'm just.
(02:58):
Not doing anything.
Richard, on the other hand, is aquite in demand individual.
So when I schedule with Richard,I have to talk to his, he has
people and his people is PhoebeUnwin, which to my British
friends, listening's not a bigdeal, but in the South, Phoebe
Unwins a pretty cool name and,um.
(03:21):
She's a wonderful person.
Seems very lovable, but when weexchanged emails the other day,
I wished her a happy weekend andshe said the sun has its hat on.
So it looks like we're in for alovely weekend.
Just outta curiosity.
What would the Sun has its haton mean?
Well, it's a, it's a song for,you know, like a kid song.
(03:43):
The Sun has, I'm not gonna singit Pat, but it's like the son,
he's got his Go ahead.
I bet you it's a talent youdidn't know you had.
I dunno, man.
I dunno.
Um.
I'm gonna do it.
The sun has got his hat on.
The sun has got his hat on, andhe's coming out to play.
Ah, see it's a kid.
It's a kid song.
Okay.
(04:03):
I didn't know that.
I'm thinking the sun has its haton.
It's not gonna shine that much,but it's actually a kid song.
Oh no.
That means it's like the, thesun's out.
The sun, the sun's out has itshat on.
Fantastic.
Maybe if I like strum on a banjowhile I.
Would that help at all?
(04:25):
Yeah.
Well, we have the nursery rhymeswithout the banjos, but, well,
it's good to see you and thanksto you all that are joining us.
Again, if you didn't hear us inthe first episode, we are the
two unlikely Christians.
Uh, we both lived a life of, uh,had a very inauspicious start to
life.
(04:45):
That's a big word, Richard.
Just let you, I'm, you know,you're rubbing off on me getting
a little sophisticated but wehad, uh, we had quite the
struggles coming up and, um, itwas all changed by our encounter
and, uh, and following JesusChrist.
And we have a passion to, sharethat with other people.
(05:07):
So they can have the sameexperience.
And we, thought a good way tostart our podcast would be to
tell you the back stories, uh,each one of our back stories.
So you'd know where we werecoming from, and some of you may
relate.
And we were going to, in thefirst episode, we were, Richard
was gonna tell his story, andthen I was gonna tell my story,
uh, and then Richard startedtalking and, uh, uh oh.
(05:30):
Oh wow.
One.
So, so we never got to minebecause Richards kept dropping
bombs that I did.
You know, we've known each otherfor a while and talked a bit and
maybe a lesson for me that Italked too much because I didn't
know a lot of this stuff whenmy, wife is listening in the
other room and, I hear, oh, wow.
(05:51):
Oh wow.
Oh, wait, hold up.
You can't just drop that andthen move on.
Wait.
Father had a family across town.
Now this, okay, now we'rewriting movies here.
So, um, anyway, we want to kindof rehash that and go back to
the beginning.
So if I can, Richard,'cause I dohave some questions.
(06:12):
Just to recap, you started off,uh, and what you called a middle
class family.
Yeah.
Well, you have a father that'san attorney turned into a judge.
Mother.
That's a doctor, and the statesthat's of crust above or so
(06:33):
middle class.
So I don't know.
But you know, if you considerthat middle class in England, in
other words, you had a prettyprosperous upbringing, would
that be safe?
Yeah, I look, I think those,both of those professions in
England, uh, are less than theydo in America.
Um, I, I think, you know,because our medical system is
(06:55):
not like all private like yoursis so.
Doctors earn less lawyers,attorneys, as you call'em, like
definitely earn less.
Um, so, you know, like it is abit different.
We would like probably hoveredsomewhere between kind of lower
and middle, um, lower and uppermiddle class.
Like, you know, if that's thedistinction.
(07:15):
So like, we lived in a house, itwas a nice house that had five
bedrooms.
It wasn't.
Palatial, you know, we had twocars on the drive.
They weren't like brand newMercedes-Benz, you know, like it
was, it was, no, it was not.
We, we were com we definitelydidn't go hungry.
We had nice holidays.
Mom and dad had pensions andstuff like that, you know, it
was, but wa was kind of a, whatYou weren't just low balling.
It was kind of middle, middleclass, you know?
(07:36):
I mean, and not every judge ordoctor over here is a.
Extremely wealthy, but it is a,pretty lucrative profession over
here, but, mm.
Uh, so you, you had that goodupbringing, but the bad side.
Um, and you mentioned that youloved your father.
You have great admiration forhim, work ethic, you know, what
he provided.
(07:57):
Uh, but he was a flawed man,correct?
He was very, he had many, manyflaws.
Yeah, many flaws.
Uh, and it was abusive.
Abusive towards, towards yourmother?
Uh, abusive towards you, did yousay?
Yeah.
Violent.
Yeah.
Violent.
So you had a violent upbringing,um, kind of forced your mother
(08:22):
into a shell., Is what?
I took from that.
So it kind of pushed her intodrinking and kind of recoiling.
Uh, is that safe?
Well, I think, look, she had adrink problem.
I think she had a drink problemcoming into the marriage.
You know, from what I've beenable to piece together, I don't
think that the relationship withmy dad helped her in any, in any
way.
(08:43):
You know, my dad was a lot,definitely quite controlling,
domineering, um.
You know, as you've kind ofalluded to at the start of this
episode, you know, had along-term affair, you know, so,
and I think my mom was aware,well, I know actually my mom was
aware of that, and for whateverreason, she didn't feel able to
leave the marriage.
So she was very much, um, I.
(09:06):
I think she felt, I don't thinkshe was, I think she felt very
trapped in that relationship.
And I think my dad did, uh,chisel away her self-esteem.
Some, yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
But, uh, I think, I mean,knowing what I know about how
people tick, you don't end up ina relationship like that'cause
you are playing with a full deckin the first place, you know?
(09:26):
Right.
Right.
So, so that, it wasn't reallythat she, that he kind of pushed
her into it.
She, she was flawed to, to startwith.
Oh yeah, definitely like that.
It is like, it's like that kindof chicken and egg stuff, you
know?
It's like you attract what you,you know what you are, it's
like, we put out, you know, whatwe put out, we get back, you
know, it's like when I wasdeeply unhealthy and broken, and
(09:49):
damaged and, and all that, andhadn't done any work on myself.
The, you know, the women I waswith.
Like that basically, you know,you, you, you kind of attract,
uh, you, you kind of attract thesame people.
So the bottom line was you, itwas a very dysfunctional home.
And, you just weren't, youweren't feeling love growing up.
(10:11):
Yeah, it was, there was anabsence of love and an absence
of emotional attunement and anabsence of, you know, feelings
weren't welcome.
There was a lot of anger.
I.
You know, the, a lot of anxiety,a lot of unspoken feelings, un
felt disowned anger, or it waslike a soup, you know, and
(10:32):
dishonesty and addiction was inthere, and then me and my
brother were just, as a kid.
Yeah, as a kid, you just, sorry,I didn't mean to interrupt you
as a kid.
You just, you just, were notfeeling the love.
I see kids today and it justbreaks my heart because.
You're so impressionable at thattime.
You're born, you've got thislove in you.
You're looking for the joy andacceptance.
(10:54):
You love your parents.
And then, and there's littleRichard not feeling it.
You were meant to be loved.
God designed us this way, butyou weren't feeling it at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's fair.
And so that let, that leads youdown a path.
Uh, you start withdrawing, asyou said, you lived in your
(11:15):
head.
Uh, which is actually a phrasethat I've used before that I can
relate to.
And so you just kind of formedyour own life, which started
early.
Getting into trouble, you said?
I.
Yeah.
Taking drugs.
Selling drugs.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Misbehaving.
Yeah.
Just, just getting in trouble.
(11:38):
Were you skipping school, thingslike that?
Or you just, just e Every, bythe time I was about 15 or 16, I
was skipping school, um, by the,when I was 13, I started with
the drugs.
Um, by the time I was 14, I wasdefinitely taking something.
To change the way I felt everyday.
Right.
Um, selling very small amount ofdrugs by the time I was 14.
(12:00):
Um, selling more drugs by thetime I was 16, selling not
insignificant amount of drugs bythe time I was 19 or 20.
Definitely.
So you're feeling, and one thingyou said your father had a
another family.
Yeah.
So it came out.
After my dad's death in 2020.
(12:20):
I mean, we all knew there was anaffair.
Like that was obvious.
Um, my mom knew she'd talk aboutit when she was drunk, um, about
his affair.
Yeah.
Um, you know, my mom really wasAllman who really like lived in
the kind of victim position.
Uh, and um, so she would sort oflament.
(12:41):
Her situation and dad, and therewas this other woman, and it was
also terrible.
And I mean, she would neveractually do anything about any
of this, but she was, but shewas So you kids knew it, it was
common knowledge.
Yeah, it was known.
And, but we didn't know theextent of it.
We, you know, and then dad diedand, and they, you know, his
will was read and, um, and therewas another house, you know,
there was another, this otherwoman was named in there, and
(13:03):
then clearing the house out.
We found pictures and.
You know, a little bit of kindof investigation and some kind
of disclosures by a familyfriend, like, yeah, there's a
daughter, you know, that I'vegot a half sister that I found
out about like under a year ago,so, yeah, a lot of, A lot of
secrets, man.
A lot of secrets came out, youknow?
(13:26):
Have you met the sister?
No, I reached out to the mom.
That's whatever, mistress, afair partner, whatever you wanna
call her.
Um, I, I tried to reach out toher via the solicitors.
'cause you know, like theattorneys lot office that had to
deal with, obviously this housethat he shared with her and
(13:47):
shared ownership of with her waspart of his estate.
So they, the solicitors had todeal with her.
I asked them to.
Ask if she would talk to me, youknow?
Um, just wanting to know.
I don't know, just wanting toknow, like, just wanted to kind
of get some kind ofunderstanding of who she was
and, you know, that kind ofthing.
(14:08):
Um, you know, obviously it was abig part of my dad's life, um,
and, uh, but yeah, she, she'snever responded to those, those
efforts to contact her.
So there, there's been a couple,so I've never had the
opportunity to speak to her ormy sister.
Was, uh, did, did that give youa feeling of rejection?
(14:30):
Did you know that he was, hadthe affair?
I guess you didn't know aboutthe family until you got older.
So you had already gone througha lot of life changes.
It made grieving through him.
Very complicated.
You know, he died, he died quitetragically.
He was 69.
He had a huge stroke.
Um, he died like four monthslater.
(14:50):
You know, and he spent fourmonths in the hospital severely,
mentally and physicallyincapacitated.
And it was a very, verydifficult time for my family.
Um, you know, it's shocking,awful, horrifying.
And you're finding all of thisout while this is happening.
We found all of it out about twoweeks after it had passed.
So all of the grief, um.
(15:12):
It just got mixed up with a loadof anger, rejection, betrayal,
and that was very complicated.
And, and the other factor, pat,that made it, made it very tough
was that, uh, we buried myfather on the Wednesday and on
the Friday.
This was in March, 2020.
So on the Friday, two days afterhis funeral, the UK went into
the first national lockdown.
(15:33):
And, uh, and then so, I mean, Icould cry even just thinking
about that, so, so sort ofdealing with all of that grief
in lockdown.
Very isolated.
Yeah, it was tough, man.
It was a tough time Backing upin your teen years.
(15:56):
While this was going on, asyou're growing up, you know,
under the violence and the lackof love in the house, you got
into gang activities, sellingdrugs.
You mentioned in there gettingstabbed.
And yeah, it weren't like, itwas a lot, it was a lot tamer
than that.
Like, it, it just like, youknow, selling drugs to friends,
(16:16):
you know.
Um, later on in my twenties Igot stabbed.
That was, I mean, really pat, Iwas just, I was, I.
You know, I was selling drugs inmore, significant quantities
and, up to, you know, variouskind of things really to make
money.
And, um, you know, there was, Iwas trying to collect some money
(16:36):
that was owed to me and thepeople that owed it, um, weren't
very through.
It weren't.
Happy about the way that I wentabout it.
And, um, I, I love the way youtt about the way you were trying
to collect their money.
Yeah, so it was like a longstory.
(16:56):
I mean, ultimately the long, thetruth, you know, I could make, I
could talk about it and make itall sound very kind of like
gangstery, right?
But like the truth is like, Iwas a, basically in a world that
I didn't belong in pretending tobe something that I wasn't.
And I got found out, you know, Iwas owed some money.
I engaged like a debt collector,like quite a nasty but nasty
person to go and collect thatmoney.
(17:18):
Um, he gave them 24 hours topay.
They didn't want to pay.
Um, so, and like a group of mencame to my front door and, um,
I, you know, opened the frontdoor was grabbed, beaten, put
over the, well the bonnet of acar, I dunno what you call it,
the hood of a car and stabbed inthe, in the stomach area.
(17:41):
Um, so yeah, that was in 2005.
I was 25 years old.
Oh, did you say you almost bledout?
I didn't bleed out.
Um, I was, I mean, it was adangerous situation.
Oh yeah.
I had very serious internalinjuries, like my intestines
were sliced up and my pancreasand I, I ended up in hospital,
(18:02):
um, a few hours later'cause Iwas high and drunk and I, you
know, I didn't, I couldn't feel,I didn't feel any pain and I was
full of, you know, booze andcoke and bravado and, uh, I, I
went.
Found my friends in a bar, youknow, told'em what happened.
(18:23):
They, they were like, you needto go to the hospital.
I was like, I'm fine.
I'm not gonna hospital.
And then a few hours later, um,yeah, just this incredible pain.
Um, this kind of, it was verysmall stab wound.
It was obviously a very deepknife wound.
And, um, just trying to send amessage.
They were, they.
They had had enough of you, theyweren't just trying to send a
(18:44):
message.
They, they could have easilykilled you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I was like, you know, the,the, um, the doctors that
operated on me said it was, youknow, close, you know, like kind
of another half hour.
It would've been beyond thepoint of no return through,
through all of that, did youever have.
A feeling because through allthe mine, which we'll get to in
(19:06):
the next episode, there alwaysseemed to be something there.
You didn't grow up going intochurch, going to church, or have
any relationship with God, oryou're just out there on your
own.
You're not breeding by, you'renot learning it.
You're just out there.
Was there ever, uh, anythingthat you just felt like
something might have beenlooking over me?
(19:28):
Not at a time on reflection.
You know, I, um.
There were times, uh, through mytwenties where I would be, I
would pray'cause I felt Whatcaused you?
What caused you to startpraying?
I just felt so lost, just feltlike, like my life felt so out
of control.
(19:48):
So like I would kind of turn tosomething.
I always had a belief I neverfelt, you know, when I look back
on it, I think, yeah, I musthave been being looked after in
some way.
I had an experience after Icame, not long after I came into
the faith where I was at achurch in, uh, in West London
where, uh, where the, the manwho evangelized me, a, a guy
called Dan Stanley, who is, itis just been such a huge.
(20:11):
Part of my journey.
How did you come to that manevangelizing you?
Is what I'm getting is kind ofwhat I'm getting at?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, well, that jumps about abit Pat, like, let me just say
this bit.
So I was at this church and likethis where there was a preacher
from America and um, uh.
She was doing, they, you know,I'd done the auto call at the
(20:32):
end and, and, you know, everyonekind of queued up to go and see
her.
And, um, I was a bit more likereserved and self-conscious
around my faith then, and Ididn't really want to do it, but
my friend kind of made me.
And uh, and she took me by thehands, man.
And she, and she, you know, sheshut her eyes and, and, and she,
she just said, it's like, Icould cry saying this.
(20:53):
She just said like, he's alwaysbeen with you.
Like he's always been with you.
You just, you just need to liketo let him in sort of thing.
And um, you know, and that,yeah, I guess that's where I'm
at with it now.
Like, he was always there.
That's what I'm, that's what I'mdriving at through all of my
struggles.
And when I looked back, Istarted realizing because he was
(21:16):
with you the day you werestabbed, he was with you when
you were the struggling,struggling, Richard.
Uh, but you what I was get, howdid you first go to a church?
Were you some, something istalking to you that got you to
the person that's evangelizingyou, that got you to the church?
Just briefly, is it anindividual or you're just
(21:37):
thinking, I, this is something'spulling me to, to go to the
church?
Something's pulling me to look.
I was like from a place of likebrokenness, like, you know, like
it says in the AA book, youknow, beaten into a state of
reasonableness, right?
So like, I, um, was clean, but Iwas in the grip of, uh, quite a
(21:57):
nasty sex addiction and I again,just reached a point of
brokenness and, um.
My friend Dan had been aChristian for a few years, was
very much on that path, but he'dnever, when I say evangelized
me, in a way, pat did it withoutsaying a word.
Yeah.
It was just the power of hisexample, you know?
(22:19):
And, um.
Then my sponsor at that time isstill my sponsor now, actually.
Um, he was also a Christian.
Him and Dan were friends andthey just saw that those, they
just had something that I didn'thave, you know, and, and, and it
was very attractive to me.
And, um, and then when I, youknow, I was just really hit a
(22:40):
rock bottom.
With my sex addiction.
And I phone down and said, youknow, there was a Christian
recovery group, um, we have aChristian recovery group over
there called Believers inRecovery.
And he was going to a believersmeeting that night.
And I called him and was like,where's the meeting?
You know?
And uh, and he told me and Iwent and I crawled in.
(23:00):
That was, that was what broughtme into faith ultimately, was
that.
That's what put you in a lot.
And to back up to one thing, youkind of skipped past the, it was
the dysfunctional, you know,quite a horrible childhood and
then you quickly transitionedand you said, I.
And then I got into myprofession, started making a lot
(23:23):
of money.
I mean, you, you made a quickjump from almost dying on the
street, uh, to becoming a verysuccessful psychotherapist.
How did you go from all of thatto, uh.
Ending up at Bath University?
I've heard of that.
Well, yeah.
I mean, I did, there was a bitin the middle that I did mention
(23:45):
it.
It's like I walked through thedoors of a 12 step meeting.
That's the truth.
At, at what age?
29.
Yeah.
29.
You went to university at 29.
No, I went to university at 32.
Uh uh, no, I went to universityat 34.
I went, I walked through thedoors of my first 12 step
meeting when I was 29.
I got clean and stayed cleanwhen I was 32, and then, so when
(24:09):
I was two years clean, I tookmyself off to university and
educated myself.
As you were getting step, wereyou starting a relationship with
God along the way that led youto university or you did that on
your own?
I've been through the steps, soobviously there's, you know,
like I know the 12 steps aremuch more widely known in the US
(24:29):
than they are here, uh, where itcan still feel like a bit of a
niche thing, but, um, it.
Like I was open to spiritualmatters.
Yeah.
I didn't have a Christian faith.
I've heard the aa, the Godthat's described in the AA book,
uh, called uh, like a pseudoChristian God because of the
(24:50):
language they use in that book.
That's probably where I was kindof at at the time.
Yeah.
So it wasn't the belief in Jesusactually quite resistant to the
idea of Jesus, but open to theidea of God, you know?
Um, I mean, I think that's aninteresting point that'll, you
know, that resistance to theidea of Jesus would be something
for us to talk about later, butI, yeah.
Well, yeah, we will.
Because I have noticed you starttalking to somebody about God
(25:13):
and, and they're quick to, ohyes, I believe in God.
Oh yeah.
God's, when you say Jesus, thethings kind of get quiet.
They recoil.
There's lot.
Ooh.
And it's like, what?
Like, you know, like, okay, nowI think what?
Like, what is that all about?
It's God.
Oh, the man upstairs.
(25:34):
Oh yes, I believe in God.
Oh yes, I got, you know, butwhen you say Jesus, there's
something about that, all of asudden the room thickens up.
So, yeah.
And it's, I I think it's, um,just a word on that.
I think it's remarkable when Ilook at it, right?
It's like say in London, likesay in, in, in Oxford Street or
(25:54):
one, you know our big centralshopping street, right?
You have all differentreligions.
Yeah.
Right.
You have people, you know, HarryKrishnas, like Islam, Buddhists,
Hindus, giving out literature,at different times, giving out
literature and so on and soforth.
Now, like when I walked pastthem, this is before I came to
Faith, when I walked past them.
(26:15):
I knew they were different tome, but I didn't really, I
didn't recoil from them when Isaw a man on the corner with a
sign saying Jesus saves, right?
Like preaching.
I recoiled from it right now.
Like that, that really interestsme and like, you know, the
conclusion I come to is like,it's the enemy man.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like.
Well, you're being controlled bythe enemy and the enemy.
(26:37):
'cause both of us up till thatpoint, we're being controlled
by, influenced by Satan.
He's real.
And so we're being influenced.
And so when we hear that, youhear that, it's like, no, no,
no.
Back, back, back.
You know, you can say the wordGod.
'cause that can mean a lot ofthings to a lot of people.
When you say Jesus, you've nowgotten.
Specific and what's ruling ourlives.
All of a sudden, you've justmentioned the enemy, so that's
(26:58):
probably what it is.
Uh, we're getting a little shorton time because, uh, the lovely
Phoebe young one said, you, youhave a meeting to run to.
Uh, but I want, so you end up.
It, it's very remarkable thatyou did all this on your own.
You kept fighting, you keptworking to overcome.
I, you should be incrediblyproud.
You're 29 something years old.
(27:20):
You're not throwing your handsin the air.
You keep going back, keepfighting, you keep you getting
in the ditch and coming back andkeep pursuing a life.
Personally, I think.
God's in your life.
Jesus in your life.
He was watching you all of yourlife, but you make this
determination, you go to school.
Bath I've heard of BathUniversity and I Googled it,
(27:41):
that only 10% of the applicantsget admitted to Bath.
And you're one of those, so youhad a lot on the ball and there
was a lot of hard work thatwent, all that went into all of
that.
So you were always striving to,overcome and so as you go
through this, you become asuccessful professional.
You get married, the void isstill there because we're all
(28:03):
meant to be loved.
It's there, the void is there.
You're not feeling the love, thethings keep manifesting
themselves in your life.
Correct.
So you keep the destruction.
You're upwardly mobile in yourlife.
You are pursuing it, but thatvoid is still there.
You haven't really acceptedJesus.
Then you end up in the desert inArizona where you meet the man
(28:26):
who introduces you.
To the guy that changes yourlife?
Is that what happened?
Yeah.
Like, so there was, I'd come tofaith, like I'd been baptized.
Yeah.
Like, but it, it was like, youknow, an old FM radio and you
tune it in and you just can'tget the frequency, you know, so
(28:48):
it's.
And you can hear the voice, butit's just not quite there.
Right?
So it was like, it was a bitlike that, right?
Like things had changed for me.
Like I knew that, that I knewthat, you know, I just knew that
Jesus was the son of God, thathe died on the cross Christ
sins, that he rose again threedays later and ascended to sit
with a father, right?
I knew that to be true and I gotbaptized on that basis, but I
(29:08):
was still riddled with, um, withcompulsive sexual behavior is
the truth, you know?
And, um, and then so that causeda huge.
Explosion in my life and it wasvery painful and you know, very
painful for the people aroundme, you know, including my, my
ex-wife, and, um.
(29:30):
Then I went to Arizona and thatwas where things really started
to change, you know, that'swhere things really started to
change.
And that, that's, that's reallywhere the story, that's really
where it, it picks up some pace.
Not that, I mean obviously Ithink you got, you think it's
got quite a bit of pace anyway,but, um, it, it's pace there.
Richard, you dropped a few bombsalong the way.
Uh, as I said, yeah, go ahead.
(29:50):
Change again when we get toArizona for sure, man.
Well, it changed when you hadthat moment that we talked
about, like in my book where youjust gave it all up.
Let Jesus come into your life.
And that's led us to this momentand it's led you to the peace
and the happiness, and that'swhat we're trying to share with
everyone else.
Uh, you've had a moment that yourealized all your life, young
(30:15):
Richards sitting in that housein his tears and all of his
stress and all of his pain.
He was there, he was watching,he was there when you were
bleeding.
He was making sure that bladedidn't touch the right, uh, the
right organ, and he was with youthe entire time and just
waiting.
And that's the way I.
(30:36):
God works.
That's the way Jesus works.
He's waiting for you.
But, but he was, whoever toldyou that he was with you all
your life and we'll illustratehow he was with me in the next
episode.
So, he was there and I, there'sprobably some people out there
that can relate to your story alittle bit.
They might have missed out onthe almost bleeding out and the
(30:58):
father with the second family.
But the same struggles.
So.
Alright, appreciate you sharingthat, rich.
I will, talk to you next weekand, hopefully the sun has its
hat on and you can have a lovelyweekend in the UK and, uh, love
you man.
Talk to you next time.
I.
Nice one.
Watch out for those tornadoes,pat.
See you next time.
(31:18):
I, we have shelters.
We hide when they come.
Right.
Excellent.
Yeah, we have trailers and wehave trailers underground to
help us not get hit by thetrailers flying through the air
when the tornadoes come.
So all the essentials in there.
You've got the moonshine, stillgot merch ban, spare banjo
strings.
(31:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Keep us up.
Not a jerky.
That's it.
Alright brother.
Alright, see you next time.
See you next time.
Bye mate.
Take care.
Bye.
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