July 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Pat McCool takes his turn to discuss the twists and turns of an extraordinary life, sharing how Jesus watched over him and guided his path until Pat was ready to turn to Him.
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(00:23):
Welcome to the two UnlikelyChristians podcast.
I am Pat McCool comedian author,coming to you from the Banks of
a lake deep in the Piney Woodsof Southern Mississippi, and my
co-host from all across theAtlantic Ocean and academic
capital of the world, Oxford,England.
(00:43):
My brother from the mothercountry esteemed psychotherapist
and addiction specialist,Richard Tull.
How you doing, rich?
Hello, pat.
I'm alright, pat.
I'm alright.
You uh, I am good.
I will be a lot better in a fewhours.
'Cause today is yard work day?
Do you have yard work day?
(01:04):
It's, you know, I mean, I knowyou're, sophisticated academic.
I don't know what do you guys,do you have somebody trim your
shrubs?
How do you handle the yard overthere?
Well, because obviously I livein a castle pat, so.
My state ranges for many, manymiles, you know, so I, I tend to
(01:25):
let the, like the, you know,like the poor farmers that I, I
rent various lots to, they doit, they do all the work and
then they bring me like anoffering, you know, at the end
of each season, um, into, intothe Great Hall where I sit
there.
Eating chicken, you know, eatingchicken bones and front by her
head and stuff.
Oh, I see.
(01:46):
The uh, and I'm assuming, doesthe butler kind of direct this
to make sure don't, do you havea guy at the door with the Uh,
yeah, there's the doorman andthen there's the butler and
then, you know, so the doormandirector, the butler.
Butler brings him through, andthen the guards take them to the
dungeon.
You have the guy, you have thedoorman.
That j just a opens the door.
(02:07):
That's good stuff.
Yeah.
Well, one to open, one's areclose.
Uh, I see the, um, and the southhere, we do it ourselves.
See, that's one of the rite ofpassages to manhood.
You have a mower.
You know, you have a leafblower, you have a chainsaw, a
pole saw, and a wreck, and, andyou, you say those names very
(02:29):
slowly as if I don't understandthem.
I got'em from, and of course anine millimeter pistol chest in
case.
Yeah.
Because we have the yard workand you go out and you do it,
you know, you work up a sweatand it takes hours.
And then you, because here wehave pine trees.
I'm looking at water, but I'vegot pine trees, shrubs, you, I
(02:54):
mean, you, you name it.
Pine straw.
We have snakes.
Do you guys have snakes inEngland?
Like allegedly, like I've, I'venever seen one.
Um, so we have like addersapparently, but I don't think
anyone's seen an adder since theeighties.
Um, and grass snakes, those arethe two snakes that are native
to England.
We have a very small, almost onexistent selection of things
(03:18):
that in nature that will killyou.
Um, whereas obviously in Americayou have like a lot of different
things that can slash will killyou.
On my property, I have seencopperheads rattlesnakes and a
coral snake, which is even is arare poison snakes, but supposed
to be one of the most poisonsnakes in the world.
(03:39):
Uh, they're everywhere.
Now, maybe in England.
Uh, well, you have to watch out.
I mean, they're not just likesitting outside waiting on you.
You just gotta watch when you'rewalking out, in the woods.
And you have to be careful.
Maybe in England, the, mynamesake, didn't he run the
snakes off of Ireland or, um.
So they say, or was it St.
Steven or something, drove thesnakes out of Ireland or
(04:01):
something?
St.
Patrick, I think it was St.
Patrick, Richard St.
To St.
Patrick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I dunno, man, us in the Irish,it's not, you know, it's, it,
it's, it's never really gonethat well, so, no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The whole enslaving thing was,was a bit of a, was a bit of a,
kind of a tedious thing.
You know?
It's like you guys, uh, youknow, it's like my wife is part
(04:24):
Welsh.
And so people in America, wedon't have the royalty, but we
all think that we have someroyal blood, you know, so we go
to England, we, you wanna searchand you just know that there's
some royalty in there.
But if you're Irish, like myname is McCool, you just skipped
that because you know you're inAmerica because somebody ran out
of potato somewhere.
(04:44):
You know, there's not a crestwaiting on you when you get over
there.
So no.
Maybe a, a hedge school, Ibelieve was a thing over there,
you know about that.
A what?
But they had hedge schoolsbecause apparently English
wouldn't let the, I wouldn't letthe, the native Irish people
have schools for their kids.
So they, they had schools likehidden in, you know, like in, in
(05:07):
trees and.
Like bushes and stuff like that.
So like Yeah.
Hedge schools they had, yeah.
Well see, I didn't know.
Well it just, that's probablyyour ancestors holding mine back
so that could be why you have anMBA from bath.
Both.
Both sides of the pond.
And I've got a GED and acertificate.
(05:29):
Uh, from a alcohol safetyawareness program that I got a
scholarship for when I was 16.
So, you know, I at least gotsome credentials somewhere.
So, well, any of those that arejoining us for the first time,
this is the two unlikely,Christian.
Podcast and we're unlikelyChristians because we spent the
early part of our lives workingagainst, God and, with
(05:52):
destructive behavior.
Because when you're notfollowing Jesus and you're
living a destructive lifestyle,you're causing trouble along the
way.
And after we overcame those, uh,we both have a deep desire.
To, share our experience andhave other people experience the
joy and the peace that we'vehad.
So, which is why we're doing,uh, doing this podcast, and we
(06:12):
figured the best way to startoff was give you our background.
We spent the first couple ofepisodes with Richard telling
us, how he reached his moment,where he started his
relationship with Christ.
And so today, uh, we're gonnastart on mine.
Mine's a little lengthy.
Also, I've written about it inmy book Bonsai wasn't really
(06:34):
that big of a hill.
One man's walk towards God.
And, uh, we're not gonna gothrough the whole 25 chapters of
it.
So I'm gonna give you theCliff's notes.
Do you know what Cliff's Notesare?
Do y'all have those?
In England.
Uh, what are they?
So, so they, cliff notes were abook in school that when you
were studying for, uh, in asubject for a test, you'd get a
(06:55):
little book and it's calledCliff's Notes.
So it just condensed everythingdown to notes on the subject so
you could, you know, it wouldkind of help you along.
Uh, bless you.
You're a simple people.
(07:15):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
We are rich.
So, so speaking of school, wewill start off my, I do not have
the Richard, uh, had a bit of atougher childhood growing up
with a dysfunctional family.
I didn't have it.
My father was a militaryofficer.
I was born Fort Benning, Georgiaon a military base.
I had the love in my familythere.
(07:38):
You know, there wasn'talcoholism, there wasn't abuse.
Uh, my father was, he was astrict kind of an army guy.
And, um, so, you know, therewere things, as I got a little
older that kind of took itstoll, but I, and you as a
psychotherapist, rich, youprobably, I've never really
understood why I did a lot ofthe things I did, but I just
(08:00):
remember in the first grade,walking in and sticking the
stoppers and the sinks, uh, ofthe bathroom, turning the water
on and flooding the bathroom andgoing back to sitting at my desk
and coloring monkeys until thewater.
Came under the door and then Iwas off and running.
By the third grade, Ishoplifting, moved to
Hattiesburg, Mississippi intofourth grade new town.
(08:22):
Figured I'd try shopliftingagain.
Wasn't good at that.
Got caught doing it.
Fifth grade vandalism.
Um.
Six, seven.
Similar to you, I noticed yousaid at 13 you had started doing
drugs and that's about the timethat I started them.
And then you were selling drugsby 14 and I was also at 13 years
(08:43):
old.
Um, I.
I was arrested with a pound ofpot and, and a box of baggies.
So there's really no way I couldsay this is my, I, you know, I
was just gonna smoke all thismyself.
So I, you know, I was on my wayto being a bit of a criminal,
and I was probably far lesssuccessful at it than you were
because I kept, I would alwaysget called.
(09:06):
Uh, but I got into vandalism,blew the backstop up on the
baseball field, just'cause itwas there.
It was just little things that Ikept getting into trouble and as
I said, I didn't come from, uh.
You know, an abusive background.
My, childhood was great growingup on, on Army Post.
(09:28):
Uh, but my father was that kindof post-World War II kind of
generation and there were thingsgoing along the way where, you
know, like playing baseball, Ididn't wanna play baseball.
I got, you know, by the time I'msix or so, I'm into things like,
musical, whatever girls, uh, butmy dad would force me to play.
Sports.
(09:48):
And you know, one day I was, um,at practice, I was goofing off
at practice and after the, andthe coach got on, told me after
practice was over with, we gavea couple of my buddies a ride
home and my buddy start deridingme about getting, I.
Uh, the coach getting on to mefor goofing off at practice.
(10:08):
Well, I get home and, and I geta severe butt whipping for, you
know, goofing off at practicethat I didn't wanna be at in the
first place.
Mm-hmm.
So there, there was some ofthat, you know, and, and I think
you saw in my book, by the timeI'm in the eighth grade, I'm not
wanting to play football anymoreand my family used, we were
supposed to play it.
I didn't wanna play football bythe time I was in the eighth
(10:30):
grade.
My dad forced me to play.
I signed up, but I didn't goout.
But I was hanging out in thefirst day of practice, uh, in
the locker room, talking to mybuddy, the equipment manager,
and I.
The, one of the coaches calledand said, well, you know, Pat's
not out on the field.
Well, my dad shows up and givesme a butt weapon in front of my
friend for not being on the, soit was that kind of thing.
(10:52):
You know, I just kind ofdeveloped this, you know, I
don't wanna say hatred because Icame to love my father.
He, I admire him immensely.
I'm looking at a flag thatdraped over his coffin.
He's at, buried at ArlingtonNational Cemetery, which is the
cemetery in America that.
Not everyone can go to, youeither died in battle or you had
married to.
(11:12):
So I loved my father.
He stayed with me through all ofthe trouble that I got into.
But looking back on it,'cause Ialways kind of, kind of look
back, so I, I'm always trying tofigure out what causes people
into things.
So I think there was maybe.
A feeling of a lack of love orsecurity.
Yeah.
You know, and, and that type ofthing.
But, um, but the relationshipwas just souring quick.
(11:36):
I, by the time I'm in the ninthgrade, I'd run away from home.
My dad would try to disciplineme.
I would crawl out of the windowand just disappear.
Uh, for, for days, you know,they didn't know where I was and
they would find me staying in avacant house, uh, that I'd, you
know, come back home.
And by the time I am in theninth grade, uh, I had been,
(12:00):
arrested for burglary.
You, you, you name it, was doingdrugs, getting drunk all of the
time.
I had such a reputation in theninth grade that on my way to
the practice field, on the firstday of practice, I'm, still
playing football.
The defensive coordinatoractually approached me and asked
me, uh.
If I could get him some pop, Iwas like, this is, this is
(12:24):
crazy.
Uh, and I worked out a deal.
It turned out he was our scienceteacher and we worked out a deal
that we would get good gradesif, uh, he would give us a
passing grade if I gave him a,if I gave him a bag of weed
every semester, which I diduntil we showed up in the third,
in the, during the third, it wasme and a buddy of mine.
And in the third, semester.
(12:44):
We show up at school and thecoach is standing out in the
driveway lean, and he leans inthe cars and my brother was
dropping me off and said, Hey,I'm doing a different deal.
Uh, I didn't know what he wastalking about.
I go on into class, he said, I'mnot gonna be there.
I go in, I start asking some ofthe other guys, so what happened
to Coach Steele?
And he said, well, it turned outhe had forged his teaching
certificate, so he was fired.
(13:06):
And that was test day.
So we took our science test andwe were getting bs.
You know, we were getting.
Ds C minuses, but that one Bthat we were getting in science
made me and my friend look likea couple of idiot savants.
Like maybe they just struggle inthese subjects, but somehow
they're coming through with thebs.
(13:28):
Well, that day wasn't going tohappen because we could barely
get our names right on, on thescience test.
So we set up on a.
His de the, by the windows ofthe science class.
And another friend saw the testthat everybody had taken just
sitting on the side of the deskand he threw a lighter across to
(13:48):
us and we got the bright idea toset the test on fire because,
hey, you know, if we've burnedthe test.
They can't see that we knewnothing about third semester
science.
Well, we threw one of those outof the window and there were
weeds down there and the thingignited and there were flames
shooting five to six feet up inthe air.
(14:10):
So we effectively sent.
The, uh, set the science classon fire in the ninth grade, and
they promptly invited us to notcome back, to the Hattiesburg
Public School system.
And we enrolled in a privateschool.
About a week later, our parentsenrolled us in there.
My buddy showed up, his dad hadgiven him a butt whipping for
(14:30):
something, and we got the brightidea that, uh, well, why don't
we just, uh, skip all this.
KISS is playing at the Superdomeduring Mardi Gras and we're 14.
So we haven't even been to MardiGras, so why not?
So we walk out of the schooland, uh, spend the night behind
somebody's house, hitchhike toNew Orleans, and we hang out on
(14:55):
the streets there for a coupledays.
We meet a couple guys that aregoing Los Angeles, and we decide
we're gonna go with him.
You know, great plan.
You know, we didn't have a planto start with.
We might, as we might as well,just keep doubling down on
stupid.
So we end up, riding with thesetwo nefarious characters.
They were adults.
We were both 14 years old.
(15:15):
Uh, we realized we got a problemthe first, when we're in
Houston, Texas, and this guyruns into this elderly woman
runs a red light.
Me and my buddy jump out to gocheck on the woman he yells at
us to get back in the car.
We get back in the car.
Long story short, ends upleaving this woman screaming and
crying on the side of the roadand we drive off.
Now.
(15:35):
Now we were wannabe thugs, butwe weren't really the hardened
criminals we thought we were.
Then we get to this town a fewhours later called Columbus,
Texas.
So we're four or 500 miles awayfrom home, 14 years old,
thinking we're striking out onour own.
Well, that night we get, highlyinebriated.
(15:56):
Uh, my buddy gets into a scrumwith one of the guys.
We wake up the next morning andthey've taken all our money.
We're stuck in Columbus, Texas.
And we decided that we're gonnakind of end our life on the
road.
We weren't quite ready for it,so we're gonna go home.
And we decided the best way todo it was to steal a car.
Now, neither one of us had adriver's license and had ever
(16:16):
driven a car day in our lives,but that wasn't gonna stop us.
So I go down the street and I,there was a car behind the Dairy
Queen with the keys in.
I jump in the car, fire it up,come around the corner, almost
take out half the people sittingin the.
And the benches on, uh, and ithad like a gravel driveway.
(16:36):
I go pick up my buddy and heruns out and he's got a couple
pillows.
He thought, Hey, we might needsome pillows for the ride back.
Let's put a little thought intothe ride back.
Well, five minutes later we,we've pulled out on the
interstate and I get to see whatthe barrel of a 44 Magnum looks
like from some Texas law man.
With the hat.
You've seen the movies, right?
They wear'em.
(16:58):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, the guy's got the hat.
He's pointing the gun out of thewindow four feet from my head.
And our grand theft auto endedfive minutes later and we spend
two weeks in this jail inColumbus, Texas eating bologna
sandwiches, uh, with a bunch ofhardened criminals until our
parents came and got us.
(17:19):
And you would think that welearned our lesson then.
You'd have thought wrong.
'cause I was just gettingstarted.
It was, I would continue with,uh, DUIs.
I would continue with gettingtrouble.
Uh, and my father, everyone intown called him the colonel.
They loved him.
He was a really nice jovial guy.
(17:40):
And so every time I got intotrouble they would say, you
know, this is the colonel's son.
The colonel will take care ofit.
They didn't realize thestruggles that the colonel was
having.
'cause I, like I said, I wouldrun away from home and, um.
Anyway, so I came back andcontinued to get in trouble,
continued getting out oftrouble, but it was drugs, it
(18:01):
was DUI and by the time I'm 18years old, as you know, when you
live that life, You're devoid ofany kind of peace.
You don't like yourself, youdon't realize it, but there is
no self-esteem.
You start having no hope there.
And the drugs.
I wasn't as you, you said youweren't physically addicted to
(18:23):
drugs.
Uh, I, well, no.
I mean, I was, I was a heroinaddict, so I was, I was
definitely physically addicted.
Oh, so you were physicallyaddicted?
So you had to go throughwithdrawals and the things like
this?
Yeah, many times.
Many times I was, you know, wenever had the heroin show up,
uh, in Hattiesburg.
(18:43):
I lived in a small town.
Thank God.
I thank God that themethamphetamine, that the ease
of all of the highly addictivesubstances that people are
dealing with today, we didn'thave access to that.
You know, we had the cocaineand, that was one of my problems
when a friend of mine, I, by thetime I'm 18, me and a friend of
mine are living in a house andI'm selling drugs out of the
(19:05):
house, living fine guy, and aguy comes back from Miami with a
big bag of rock cocaine and aneedle.
I.
Once that happened, the partywas pretty much over.
I wasn't physically, but I wasemotionally, I literally thought
the only happiness I had waswhen I was, what we called high.
(19:27):
It wasn't high, but eithertaking pills, doing the cocaine,
and I would do anything I couldto get the cocaine and I had,
um.
I, I had had moments throughoutmy life where I, where I had
these times when I feltsomething was kind of looking
(19:50):
over, kinda watching over me.
Like I, I told you about gettingDUIs one, one night when I was,
15, we could get our driver'slicense.
Back then I had gotten, highlydrunk and was driving home from
a party.
And, and there's a reason I'mtelling you this'cause it sets
up something on down the lineand I was driving home one night
and I was almost home.
(20:12):
And before I pulled into down mystreet, I decided I was going to
get something to eat and Iturned down this street and I
punched.
The gas pedal on my Mustang, andI just left it there.
I don't know why.
Oh, and I, I had also tried tocommit suicide a couple of
times.
By the time I was 18, I was thatunhappy.
(20:32):
And I just remember that nightturning that corner and just
putting the foot on the gas andI was like, you know what?
I just don't care.
And I got to the end of thatstreet and before I could make
the turn, I.
There's no way I could cross thestreet.
I went straight across the road,I hit an embankment that had a,
what we call a guy wire thatholds a telephone pole, and the
(20:54):
car just smashed the front endall the way to the, into the, to
the driver's compartment.
And it launched the car up inthe air about 30 feet.
And the car started sailingupside down.
And, and I remember looking atthe steering wheel, I.
Of the car just for a moment Ican remember it like it was
(21:14):
yesterday and for the first timeever, because remember I didn't
go to church, you know, we wentlike Easter or something like
that.
Sure, sure.
I had been christened in theEpiscopal, but there was no, uh,
I had no relationship with God.,But I was flying through there.
I remember looking at thatsteering wheel, feeling so
helpless, and I remember saying,God, help me.
(21:34):
Please, God help me.
Just in that moment and a momentor two later, the car landed
upside down and about 30 feet.
It had flown through the air andthe roof of the car had been
flattened all the way to the topof the car except for one place.
(21:56):
Right above where I was sitting,there was a bend, almost like
the steeple of a church rightabove my head, and I crawled out
of the car.
I had knocked the power out fromthe neighborhood.
All the neighbors, you know,knew who I was.
They all came walking down.
They were looking at the carthinking, oh my God, he's dead.
(22:17):
He's in there.
I'm standing out on the roadwithout a scratch on me.
And I say all that because Ikept going.
I actually crawled out of threetotal cars, either driving or a
friend driving the car.
Um, something was watching afterme, but when I turned 18 years
old, I've, as I said, I'm very.
(22:39):
Unhappy person.
You as a psychotherapist mightknow the words for it, but
there's no self-esteem.
There's no hope.
You don't like yourself.
I don't know the, the words forit there.
Uh, but I had reached that pointwhen I started doing the
cocaine, and actually, you know,when you go back and say you
were physically addicted to theheroin, I do remember the time
(23:01):
when we took a needle and shotcocaine.
That was a feeling that I feltlike.
This is it right here.
If I can figure out a way tofeel like this for the rest of
my life, okay, I can do that.
If I can just function and feellike that.
'cause I felt it right there.
But it was actually the, on thefirst time was the only time I
(23:21):
felt that way.
Every time I was chasing it,every shot from that point
forward was chasing.
That feeling that first, that'scocaine.
That's, isn't it?
Yeah.
Happy.
This is it.
I found it.
I'm there.
Everything else is a desperateattempt to get back to that joy
you think you have found?
So when I'm 18 years old, I hadgone in the army.
(23:45):
Uh, the Army reserves I had comeback, thought I was going to get
my act together.
I was kind of like you, you'retrying.
But you keep coming back, youknow?
Yeah.
You keep falling back in.
I came back from basic training,started doing the drugs again.
Uh, and then that had led to,you know, the cocaine and, I had
reached a point in, January of19, 82 or 81, and I, the, I
(24:16):
just, I would do anything.
To get back to that high that Ihad.
So I tried to rob a store downthe street from where I lived, a
con convenience store.
I mean, I, I was in a haze allof the time.
You just woke up in a haze.
You never thought straight.
So I go to the store.
(24:36):
And I'm going to try to bluff myway.
I wasn't a violent person.
I was extremely dangerous personbecause driving through town
drunk and all the things and,and using people along the way
makes you quite dangerous.
But I wasn't the guy that wasgonna go up and point a gun at
somebody, but I acted like, uh.
I acted like I had one.
(24:58):
I did the, Hey, I've got a gun.
There was a woman standingbehind the counter that almost
had a heart attack.
She started screaming and, uh.
Almost then I instantlyregretted it, and then I
instantly regretted it even morebecause behind the counter was
the owner of the store whojumped up from behind the, uh,
(25:19):
behind the cash register, and hedid have a weapon, and he points
a gun at me and starts chasingme out of the store.
I run out as fast as I can.
This guy's right behind me andhe starts shooting.
I heard the first gunshot go offand I'm waiting for the impact.
I'm thinking I've done it.
(25:41):
This is it.
But I see a hole blow into atree in front of me.
I.
But I, and I keep running.
I don't feel an impact.
I hear another shot.
I see another hole in a tree.
I keep going down a hill where Ipark the car.
He keeps shooting and I get tothe bottom of that hill.
Get in the car.
I hear a bullet hit the car, abullet hit the car right behind
(26:03):
me.
And I drove off.
I got away for that moment, butthey knew who it was.
They, you know, by the time Igot home that night, they were,
the sheriff's department waswaiting for me.
So I end up in this jail cell inPervis, Mississippi, which
(26:23):
ironically was not far fromwhere you and I met.
And I am sitting in this jailcell and everything I had done
has now come home to roost.
Uh, I'm 18, so dad can't justcome get me out.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not just a juvenile.
I serious.
I it, this is serious.
(26:45):
So I'm sitting there, I'm indespair, I'm in tears.
There is no hope left for me.
And this elderly man, I don'tknow if he was a trustee.
I don't know what the situationwas, but this guy comes in and
leans in.
He hands me a small cup ofcoffee, asked me what I was
there for, and I told him and hehanded me this little red book
(27:09):
and it was a Bible.
And he said, well, I don't knowhow long you're gonna be here.
I don't know what your situationis, son.
He said The answer to all yourproblems.
Or in this book, how'd that go?
And I took the book though.
I remember squeezing it.
I was in such despair.
I didn't even open it, but Isaid, God, if you are real, I'm
(27:33):
ready to find out.
And there was some, a sincerity,and obviously I was at the end
of my rope.
And so many people turned to Godwhen they have nowhere else to
go.
But then again, he knows thatand he's waiting for you.
Well, no angels, Blair, Jesusdidn't walk in the cell.
But something changed.
Uh, I got bailed out the nextday.
(27:55):
It wasn't looking good because Iheard the attorney tell my
father said he, oh, he's lookingat some time.
But there was something hadchanged at that moment.
So I went back while I waswaiting.
And, uh, for my trial, I, I gota job, showed up at the job,
actually.
We'd go home at night, wasn'tgoing out partying.
(28:18):
I started doing, you know, justdoing the right thing, doing
things that I was, that I wassupposed to do.
12 months passed while I waswaiting for the, uh, while I was
waiting for the trial.
And I had, um, knowing that Iwas going to jail knowing that I
(28:44):
was going to, I spent some timein prison.
I end up go, I walked in thecourtroom and my attorney, I saw
him come, I saw him come out ofthe back of the room with the
judge and he came out withanother man and they motioned me
over to the side.
(29:05):
And I walk in the room and helooks at me and he said, you are
the luckiest client I've everhad.
And I said, what do you mean?
He said, we got it.
I said, we got what?
He said, we got probation.
He said, here's the deal.
He said, you're gonna walk outof this courtroom today, and if
(29:25):
you stay outta trouble for fiveyears, you'll spend, never spend
another day in jail.
And they can wipe this from yourrecord, but you mess up one more
time and you're gonna spend fiveto 15 years in the state
penitentiary.
Wow.
I dropped to the, my chair.
I burst into tears.
I couldn't believe it.
(29:46):
I said, how?
How did this happen?
He said, well, it turned outthat the guy whose store you
tried to rob went to the judgeand he went to the district
attorney and asked them to giveyou a second chance.
And he said, if I was you, Iwould go thank him and
apologize.
So I did that.
(30:07):
I got an appointment with theguy, he owned some other
businesses I went to, uh, had ameeting with him, walked in, and
I told him what, uh, I said, youknow, I thanked him profusely.
I wanted to apologize to thewoman.
He said, the woman doesn't wantanything to do with you.
She, she's not happy that I'vedone this.
(30:27):
I've understood.
But I apologized to him.
Thanked him profusely.
For what he did.
And then when I got up, Richard,I said, well, look, I wanna
thank you for one other thing.
I said, I wanna thank you.
He said, what is that?
I said, I wanna thank you fornot killing me that day.
He said, what do you mean?
I said, well, you, you didn'tshoot at me.
He said, you were obviously, Isaid, you were the shooting to
(30:50):
scare me.
I said, you were right behindme.
So you were just, you know,obviously just trying to scare
me as I was running away.
And he looked at me and leanedup and put his hands on his desk
and he said, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
He said, because I was shootingright at you.
I was so mad at you.
(31:12):
He said, I did want to kill youthat day.
He said, but it was like thebullets were going right through
you.
And he said, I never seenanything like that.
Wow, man.
Got goosebumps.
And I went home.
I got him at that moment.
I went home and I told, uh, hewent, said, I went home and told
my wife, he said, this is thecraziest thing I've ever seen.
(31:36):
And he said, that's whatprompted me to go to the
district attorney.
And this is what prompted me togo to the judge, to tell them,
to give you a second chancebecause somebody's looking after
you and somebody has a purposefor you.
And if I was you, I'd find outwhat it is.
And I told him I would.
And I remember walking outsideand I looked, I got in my car
(31:57):
and I looked at the steeringwheel and I remembered that
moment.
Of flying through that air,asking God to help me, and I
realized he had been with me allthe time and had been watching
over me, and it was at thatmoment that I decided I.
That I was gonna follow hispath, which ended up leading me
(32:22):
to giving my life to Jesus andthe joy.
And that was it.
Uh, when I gave my life toJesus, I was healed of all of
it.
And now I have turned into oneof the happiest people on the
planet.
Unfortunately, we're running outof time, again, because Phoebe
says that you have a meeting.
Uh, but we can pick this up, atour next meeting.
But that was kind of my story upto that moment.
(32:45):
Right up to the moment that Ihad that time where I said, I
realized you've been with me allof this time, waiting for me to
turn and realize that you werewatching over me just like he
was watching over me, over youwaiting for you to reach that
moment.
Uh, yeah, absolutely man, it,it's beautiful, isn't it?
(33:06):
And yeah, thanks for sharingthat, pat.
It's really, you know, I reallyfeel that.
Yeah, it's moved me to tears,man.
You know, like just that, likethe, the beauty of that, that
love, that care, that guidance,that moment, you know, and
those, it's those moments ofdesperation where we turn to
him, you know?
Yeah.
And um, it's funny, like.
(33:27):
I was thinking about this andit's like, you know, too, and
maybe we're not so unlikely asChristians.
'cause actually asked we, hecame for people, our customer,
yeah, he came.
We're not interrupt you, butwe're about to end, but we are
not unlikely.
And we'll keep explaining thatto others, to hopefully others
can share our path there.
Alright, love you man.
Uh, I'll try to see you nextweek and we'll pick up the next
(33:49):
episode.
All right, man.
Take care.
Bye.
God bless you, man.
Bye-bye.
God bless you.
Take care.
Welcome to the two UnlikelyChristians podcast.
I am Pat McCool comedian author,coming to you from the Banks of
a lake deep in the Piney Woodsof Southern Mississippi, and my
co-host from all across theAtlantic Ocean and academic
capital of the world, Oxford,England.
(00:43):
My brother from the mothercountry esteemed psychotherapist
and addiction specialist,Richard Tull.
How you doing, rich?
Hello, pat.
I'm alright, pat.
I'm alright.
You uh, I am good.
I will be a lot better in a fewhours.
'Cause today is yard work day?
Do you have yard work day?
(01:04):
It's, you know, I mean, I knowyou're, sophisticated academic.
I don't know what do you guys,do you have somebody trim your
shrubs?
How do you handle the yard overthere?
Well, because obviously I livein a castle pat, so.
My state ranges for many, manymiles, you know, so I, I tend to
(01:25):
let the, like the, you know,like the poor farmers that I, I
rent various lots to, they doit, they do all the work and
then they bring me like anoffering, you know, at the end
of each season, um, into, intothe Great Hall where I sit
there.
Eating chicken, you know, eatingchicken bones and front by her
head and stuff.
Oh, I see.
(01:46):
The uh, and I'm assuming, doesthe butler kind of direct this
to make sure don't, do you havea guy at the door with the Uh,
yeah, there's the doorman andthen there's the butler and
then, you know, so the doormandirector, the butler.
Butler brings him through, andthen the guards take them to the
dungeon.
You have the guy, you have thedoorman.
That j just a opens the door.
(02:07):
That's good stuff.
Yeah.
Well, one to open, one's areclose.
Uh, I see the, um, and the southhere, we do it ourselves.
See, that's one of the rite ofpassages to manhood.
You have a mower.
You know, you have a leafblower, you have a chainsaw, a
pole saw, and a wreck, and, andyou, you say those names very
(02:29):
slowly as if I don't understandthem.
I got'em from, and of course anine millimeter pistol chest in
case.
Yeah.
Because we have the yard workand you go out and you do it,
you know, you work up a sweatand it takes hours.
And then you, because here wehave pine trees.
I'm looking at water, but I'vegot pine trees, shrubs, you, I
(02:54):
mean, you, you name it.
Pine straw.
We have snakes.
Do you guys have snakes inEngland?
Like allegedly, like I've, I'venever seen one.
Um, so we have like addersapparently, but I don't think
anyone's seen an adder since theeighties.
Um, and grass snakes, those arethe two snakes that are native
to England.
We have a very small, almost onexistent selection of things
(03:18):
that in nature that will killyou.
Um, whereas obviously in Americayou have like a lot of different
things that can slash will killyou.
On my property, I have seencopperheads rattlesnakes and a
coral snake, which is even is arare poison snakes, but supposed
to be one of the most poisonsnakes in the world.
(03:39):
Uh, they're everywhere.
Now, maybe in England.
Uh, well, you have to watch out.
I mean, they're not just likesitting outside waiting on you.
You just gotta watch when you'rewalking out, in the woods.
And you have to be careful.
Maybe in England, the, mynamesake, didn't he run the
snakes off of Ireland or, um.
So they say, or was it St.
Steven or something, drove thesnakes out of Ireland or
(04:01):
something?
St.
Patrick, I think it was St.
Patrick, Richard St.
To St.
Patrick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I dunno, man, us in the Irish,it's not, you know, it's, it,
it's, it's never really gonethat well, so, no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The whole enslaving thing was,was a bit of a, was a bit of a,
kind of a tedious thing.
You know?
It's like you guys, uh, youknow, it's like my wife is part
(04:24):
Welsh.
And so people in America, wedon't have the royalty, but we
all think that we have someroyal blood, you know, so we go
to England, we, you wanna searchand you just know that there's
some royalty in there.
But if you're Irish, like myname is McCool, you just skipped
that because you know you're inAmerica because somebody ran out
of potato somewhere.
(04:44):
You know, there's not a crestwaiting on you when you get over
there.
So no.
Maybe a, a hedge school, Ibelieve was a thing over there,
you know about that.
A what?
But they had hedge schoolsbecause apparently English
wouldn't let the, I wouldn't letthe, the native Irish people
have schools for their kids.
So they, they had schools likehidden in, you know, like in, in
(05:07):
trees and.
Like bushes and stuff like that.
So like Yeah.
Hedge schools they had, yeah.
Well see, I didn't know.
Well it just, that's probablyyour ancestors holding mine back
so that could be why you have anMBA from bath.
Both.
Both sides of the pond.
And I've got a GED and acertificate.
(05:29):
Uh, from a alcohol safetyawareness program that I got a
scholarship for when I was 16.
So, you know, I at least gotsome credentials somewhere.
So, well, any of those that arejoining us for the first time,
this is the two unlikely,Christian.
Podcast and we're unlikelyChristians because we spent the
early part of our lives workingagainst, God and, with
(05:52):
destructive behavior.
Because when you're notfollowing Jesus and you're
living a destructive lifestyle,you're causing trouble along the
way.
And after we overcame those, uh,we both have a deep desire.
To, share our experience andhave other people experience the
joy and the peace that we'vehad.
So, which is why we're doing,uh, doing this podcast, and we
(06:12):
figured the best way to startoff was give you our background.
We spent the first couple ofepisodes with Richard telling
us, how he reached his moment,where he started his
relationship with Christ.
And so today, uh, we're gonnastart on mine.
Mine's a little lengthy.
Also, I've written about it inmy book Bonsai wasn't really
(06:34):
that big of a hill.
One man's walk towards God.
And, uh, we're not gonna gothrough the whole 25 chapters of
it.
So I'm gonna give you theCliff's notes.
Do you know what Cliff's Notesare?
Do y'all have those?
In England.
Uh, what are they?
So, so they, cliff notes were abook in school that when you
were studying for, uh, in asubject for a test, you'd get a
(06:55):
little book and it's calledCliff's Notes.
So it just condensed everythingdown to notes on the subject so
you could, you know, it wouldkind of help you along.
Uh, bless you.
You're a simple people.
(07:15):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
We are rich.
So, so speaking of school, wewill start off my, I do not have
the Richard, uh, had a bit of atougher childhood growing up
with a dysfunctional family.
I didn't have it.
My father was a militaryofficer.
I was born Fort Benning, Georgiaon a military base.
I had the love in my familythere.
(07:38):
You know, there wasn'talcoholism, there wasn't abuse.
Uh, my father was, he was astrict kind of an army guy.
And, um, so, you know, therewere things, as I got a little
older that kind of took itstoll, but I, and you as a
psychotherapist, rich, youprobably, I've never really
understood why I did a lot ofthe things I did, but I just
(08:00):
remember in the first grade,walking in and sticking the
stoppers and the sinks, uh, ofthe bathroom, turning the water
on and flooding the bathroom andgoing back to sitting at my desk
and coloring monkeys until thewater.
Came under the door and then Iwas off and running.
By the third grade, Ishoplifting, moved to
Hattiesburg, Mississippi intofourth grade new town.
(08:22):
Figured I'd try shopliftingagain.
Wasn't good at that.
Got caught doing it.
Fifth grade vandalism.
Um.
Six, seven.
Similar to you, I noticed yousaid at 13 you had started doing
drugs and that's about the timethat I started them.
And then you were selling drugsby 14 and I was also at 13 years
(08:43):
old.
Um, I.
I was arrested with a pound ofpot and, and a box of baggies.
So there's really no way I couldsay this is my, I, you know, I
was just gonna smoke all thismyself.
So I, you know, I was on my wayto being a bit of a criminal,
and I was probably far lesssuccessful at it than you were
because I kept, I would alwaysget called.
(09:06):
Uh, but I got into vandalism,blew the backstop up on the
baseball field, just'cause itwas there.
It was just little things that Ikept getting into trouble and as
I said, I didn't come from, uh.
You know, an abusive background.
My, childhood was great growingup on, on Army Post.
(09:28):
Uh, but my father was that kindof post-World War II kind of
generation and there were thingsgoing along the way where, you
know, like playing baseball, Ididn't wanna play baseball.
I got, you know, by the time I'msix or so, I'm into things like,
musical, whatever girls, uh, butmy dad would force me to play.
Sports.
(09:48):
And you know, one day I was, um,at practice, I was goofing off
at practice and after the, andthe coach got on, told me after
practice was over with, we gavea couple of my buddies a ride
home and my buddy start deridingme about getting, I.
Uh, the coach getting on to mefor goofing off at practice.
(10:08):
Well, I get home and, and I geta severe butt whipping for, you
know, goofing off at practicethat I didn't wanna be at in the
first place.
Mm-hmm.
So there, there was some ofthat, you know, and, and I think
you saw in my book, by the timeI'm in the eighth grade, I'm not
wanting to play football anymoreand my family used, we were
supposed to play it.
I didn't wanna play football bythe time I was in the eighth
(10:30):
grade.
My dad forced me to play.
I signed up, but I didn't goout.
But I was hanging out in thefirst day of practice, uh, in
the locker room, talking to mybuddy, the equipment manager,
and I.
The, one of the coaches calledand said, well, you know, Pat's
not out on the field.
Well, my dad shows up and givesme a butt weapon in front of my
friend for not being on the, soit was that kind of thing.
(10:52):
You know, I just kind ofdeveloped this, you know, I
don't wanna say hatred because Icame to love my father.
He, I admire him immensely.
I'm looking at a flag thatdraped over his coffin.
He's at, buried at ArlingtonNational Cemetery, which is the
cemetery in America that.
Not everyone can go to, youeither died in battle or you had
married to.
(11:12):
So I loved my father.
He stayed with me through all ofthe trouble that I got into.
But looking back on it,'cause Ialways kind of, kind of look
back, so I, I'm always trying tofigure out what causes people
into things.
So I think there was maybe.
A feeling of a lack of love orsecurity.
Yeah.
You know, and, and that type ofthing.
But, um, but the relationshipwas just souring quick.
(11:36):
I, by the time I'm in the ninthgrade, I'd run away from home.
My dad would try to disciplineme.
I would crawl out of the windowand just disappear.
Uh, for, for days, you know,they didn't know where I was and
they would find me staying in avacant house, uh, that I'd, you
know, come back home.
And by the time I am in theninth grade, uh, I had been,
(12:00):
arrested for burglary.
You, you, you name it, was doingdrugs, getting drunk all of the
time.
I had such a reputation in theninth grade that on my way to
the practice field, on the firstday of practice, I'm, still
playing football.
The defensive coordinatoractually approached me and asked
me, uh.
If I could get him some pop, Iwas like, this is, this is
(12:24):
crazy.
Uh, and I worked out a deal.
It turned out he was our scienceteacher and we worked out a deal
that we would get good gradesif, uh, he would give us a
passing grade if I gave him a,if I gave him a bag of weed
every semester, which I diduntil we showed up in the third,
in the, during the third, it wasme and a buddy of mine.
And in the third, semester.
(12:44):
We show up at school and thecoach is standing out in the
driveway lean, and he leans inthe cars and my brother was
dropping me off and said, Hey,I'm doing a different deal.
Uh, I didn't know what he wastalking about.
I go on into class, he said, I'mnot gonna be there.
I go in, I start asking some ofthe other guys, so what happened
to Coach Steele?
And he said, well, it turned outhe had forged his teaching
certificate, so he was fired.
(13:06):
And that was test day.
So we took our science test andwe were getting bs.
You know, we were getting.
Ds C minuses, but that one Bthat we were getting in science
made me and my friend look likea couple of idiot savants.
Like maybe they just struggle inthese subjects, but somehow
they're coming through with thebs.
(13:28):
Well, that day wasn't going tohappen because we could barely
get our names right on, on thescience test.
So we set up on a.
His de the, by the windows ofthe science class.
And another friend saw the testthat everybody had taken just
sitting on the side of the deskand he threw a lighter across to
(13:48):
us and we got the bright idea toset the test on fire because,
hey, you know, if we've burnedthe test.
They can't see that we knewnothing about third semester
science.
Well, we threw one of those outof the window and there were
weeds down there and the thingignited and there were flames
shooting five to six feet up inthe air.
(14:10):
So we effectively sent.
The, uh, set the science classon fire in the ninth grade, and
they promptly invited us to notcome back, to the Hattiesburg
Public School system.
And we enrolled in a privateschool.
About a week later, our parentsenrolled us in there.
My buddy showed up, his dad hadgiven him a butt whipping for
(14:30):
something, and we got the brightidea that, uh, well, why don't
we just, uh, skip all this.
KISS is playing at the Superdomeduring Mardi Gras and we're 14.
So we haven't even been to MardiGras, so why not?
So we walk out of the schooland, uh, spend the night behind
somebody's house, hitchhike toNew Orleans, and we hang out on
(14:55):
the streets there for a coupledays.
We meet a couple guys that aregoing Los Angeles, and we decide
we're gonna go with him.
You know, great plan.
You know, we didn't have a planto start with.
We might, as we might as well,just keep doubling down on
stupid.
So we end up, riding with thesetwo nefarious characters.
They were adults.
We were both 14 years old.
(15:15):
Uh, we realized we got a problemthe first, when we're in
Houston, Texas, and this guyruns into this elderly woman
runs a red light.
Me and my buddy jump out to gocheck on the woman he yells at
us to get back in the car.
We get back in the car.
Long story short, ends upleaving this woman screaming and
crying on the side of the roadand we drive off.
Now.
(15:35):
Now we were wannabe thugs, butwe weren't really the hardened
criminals we thought we were.
Then we get to this town a fewhours later called Columbus,
Texas.
So we're four or 500 miles awayfrom home, 14 years old,
thinking we're striking out onour own.
Well, that night we get, highlyinebriated.
(15:56):
Uh, my buddy gets into a scrumwith one of the guys.
We wake up the next morning andthey've taken all our money.
We're stuck in Columbus, Texas.
And we decided that we're gonnakind of end our life on the
road.
We weren't quite ready for it,so we're gonna go home.
And we decided the best way todo it was to steal a car.
Now, neither one of us had adriver's license and had ever
(16:16):
driven a car day in our lives,but that wasn't gonna stop us.
So I go down the street and I,there was a car behind the Dairy
Queen with the keys in.
I jump in the car, fire it up,come around the corner, almost
take out half the people sittingin the.
And the benches on, uh, and ithad like a gravel driveway.
(16:36):
I go pick up my buddy and heruns out and he's got a couple
pillows.
He thought, Hey, we might needsome pillows for the ride back.
Let's put a little thought intothe ride back.
Well, five minutes later we,we've pulled out on the
interstate and I get to see whatthe barrel of a 44 Magnum looks
like from some Texas law man.
With the hat.
You've seen the movies, right?
They wear'em.
(16:58):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, the guy's got the hat.
He's pointing the gun out of thewindow four feet from my head.
And our grand theft auto endedfive minutes later and we spend
two weeks in this jail inColumbus, Texas eating bologna
sandwiches, uh, with a bunch ofhardened criminals until our
parents came and got us.
(17:19):
And you would think that welearned our lesson then.
You'd have thought wrong.
'cause I was just gettingstarted.
It was, I would continue with,uh, DUIs.
I would continue with gettingtrouble.
Uh, and my father, everyone intown called him the colonel.
They loved him.
He was a really nice jovial guy.
(17:40):
And so every time I got intotrouble they would say, you
know, this is the colonel's son.
The colonel will take care ofit.
They didn't realize thestruggles that the colonel was
having.
'cause I, like I said, I wouldrun away from home and, um.
Anyway, so I came back andcontinued to get in trouble,
continued getting out oftrouble, but it was drugs, it
(18:01):
was DUI and by the time I'm 18years old, as you know, when you
live that life, You're devoid ofany kind of peace.
You don't like yourself, youdon't realize it, but there is
no self-esteem.
You start having no hope there.
And the drugs.
I wasn't as you, you said youweren't physically addicted to
(18:23):
drugs.
Uh, I, well, no.
I mean, I was, I was a heroinaddict, so I was, I was
definitely physically addicted.
Oh, so you were physicallyaddicted?
So you had to go throughwithdrawals and the things like
this?
Yeah, many times.
Many times I was, you know, wenever had the heroin show up,
uh, in Hattiesburg.
(18:43):
I lived in a small town.
Thank God.
I thank God that themethamphetamine, that the ease
of all of the highly addictivesubstances that people are
dealing with today, we didn'thave access to that.
You know, we had the cocaineand, that was one of my problems
when a friend of mine, I, by thetime I'm 18, me and a friend of
mine are living in a house andI'm selling drugs out of the
(19:05):
house, living fine guy, and aguy comes back from Miami with a
big bag of rock cocaine and aneedle.
I.
Once that happened, the partywas pretty much over.
I wasn't physically, but I wasemotionally, I literally thought
the only happiness I had waswhen I was, what we called high.
(19:27):
It wasn't high, but eithertaking pills, doing the cocaine,
and I would do anything I couldto get the cocaine and I had,
um.
I, I had had moments throughoutmy life where I, where I had
these times when I feltsomething was kind of looking
(19:50):
over, kinda watching over me.
Like I, I told you about gettingDUIs one, one night when I was,
15, we could get our driver'slicense.
Back then I had gotten, highlydrunk and was driving home from
a party.
And, and there's a reason I'mtelling you this'cause it sets
up something on down the lineand I was driving home one night
and I was almost home.
(20:12):
And before I pulled into down mystreet, I decided I was going to
get something to eat and Iturned down this street and I
punched.
The gas pedal on my Mustang, andI just left it there.
I don't know why.
Oh, and I, I had also tried tocommit suicide a couple of
times.
By the time I was 18, I was thatunhappy.
(20:32):
And I just remember that nightturning that corner and just
putting the foot on the gas andI was like, you know what?
I just don't care.
And I got to the end of thatstreet and before I could make
the turn, I.
There's no way I could cross thestreet.
I went straight across the road,I hit an embankment that had a,
what we call a guy wire thatholds a telephone pole, and the
(20:54):
car just smashed the front endall the way to the, into the, to
the driver's compartment.
And it launched the car up inthe air about 30 feet.
And the car started sailingupside down.
And, and I remember looking atthe steering wheel, I.
Of the car just for a moment Ican remember it like it was
(21:14):
yesterday and for the first timeever, because remember I didn't
go to church, you know, we wentlike Easter or something like
that.
Sure, sure.
I had been christened in theEpiscopal, but there was no, uh,
I had no relationship with God.,But I was flying through there.
I remember looking at thatsteering wheel, feeling so
helpless, and I remember saying,God, help me.
(21:34):
Please, God help me.
Just in that moment and a momentor two later, the car landed
upside down and about 30 feet.
It had flown through the air andthe roof of the car had been
flattened all the way to the topof the car except for one place.
(21:56):
Right above where I was sitting,there was a bend, almost like
the steeple of a church rightabove my head, and I crawled out
of the car.
I had knocked the power out fromthe neighborhood.
All the neighbors, you know,knew who I was.
They all came walking down.
They were looking at the carthinking, oh my God, he's dead.
(22:17):
He's in there.
I'm standing out on the roadwithout a scratch on me.
And I say all that because Ikept going.
I actually crawled out of threetotal cars, either driving or a
friend driving the car.
Um, something was watching afterme, but when I turned 18 years
old, I've, as I said, I'm very.
(22:39):
Unhappy person.
You as a psychotherapist mightknow the words for it, but
there's no self-esteem.
There's no hope.
You don't like yourself.
I don't know the, the words forit there.
Uh, but I had reached that pointwhen I started doing the
cocaine, and actually, you know,when you go back and say you
were physically addicted to theheroin, I do remember the time
(23:01):
when we took a needle and shotcocaine.
That was a feeling that I feltlike.
This is it right here.
If I can figure out a way tofeel like this for the rest of
my life, okay, I can do that.
If I can just function and feellike that.
'cause I felt it right there.
But it was actually the, on thefirst time was the only time I
(23:21):
felt that way.
Every time I was chasing it,every shot from that point
forward was chasing.
That feeling that first, that'scocaine.
That's, isn't it?
Yeah.
Happy.
This is it.
I found it.
I'm there.
Everything else is a desperateattempt to get back to that joy
you think you have found?
So when I'm 18 years old, I hadgone in the army.
(23:45):
Uh, the Army reserves I had comeback, thought I was going to get
my act together.
I was kind of like you, you'retrying.
But you keep coming back, youknow?
Yeah.
You keep falling back in.
I came back from basic training,started doing the drugs again.
Uh, and then that had led to,you know, the cocaine and, I had
reached a point in, January of19, 82 or 81, and I, the, I
(24:16):
just, I would do anything.
To get back to that high that Ihad.
So I tried to rob a store downthe street from where I lived, a
con convenience store.
I mean, I, I was in a haze allof the time.
You just woke up in a haze.
You never thought straight.
So I go to the store.
(24:36):
And I'm going to try to bluff myway.
I wasn't a violent person.
I was extremely dangerous personbecause driving through town
drunk and all the things and,and using people along the way
makes you quite dangerous.
But I wasn't the guy that wasgonna go up and point a gun at
somebody, but I acted like, uh.
I acted like I had one.
(24:58):
I did the, Hey, I've got a gun.
There was a woman standingbehind the counter that almost
had a heart attack.
She started screaming and, uh.
Almost then I instantlyregretted it, and then I
instantly regretted it even morebecause behind the counter was
the owner of the store whojumped up from behind the, uh,
(25:19):
behind the cash register, and hedid have a weapon, and he points
a gun at me and starts chasingme out of the store.
I run out as fast as I can.
This guy's right behind me andhe starts shooting.
I heard the first gunshot go offand I'm waiting for the impact.
I'm thinking I've done it.
(25:41):
This is it.
But I see a hole blow into atree in front of me.
I.
But I, and I keep running.
I don't feel an impact.
I hear another shot.
I see another hole in a tree.
I keep going down a hill where Ipark the car.
He keeps shooting and I get tothe bottom of that hill.
Get in the car.
I hear a bullet hit the car, abullet hit the car right behind
(26:03):
me.
And I drove off.
I got away for that moment, butthey knew who it was.
They, you know, by the time Igot home that night, they were,
the sheriff's department waswaiting for me.
So I end up in this jail cell inPervis, Mississippi, which
(26:23):
ironically was not far fromwhere you and I met.
And I am sitting in this jailcell and everything I had done
has now come home to roost.
Uh, I'm 18, so dad can't justcome get me out.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not just a juvenile.
I serious.
I it, this is serious.
(26:45):
So I'm sitting there, I'm indespair, I'm in tears.
There is no hope left for me.
And this elderly man, I don'tknow if he was a trustee.
I don't know what the situationwas, but this guy comes in and
leans in.
He hands me a small cup ofcoffee, asked me what I was
there for, and I told him and hehanded me this little red book
(27:09):
and it was a Bible.
And he said, well, I don't knowhow long you're gonna be here.
I don't know what your situationis, son.
He said The answer to all yourproblems.
Or in this book, how'd that go?
And I took the book though.
I remember squeezing it.
I was in such despair.
I didn't even open it, but Isaid, God, if you are real, I'm
(27:33):
ready to find out.
And there was some, a sincerity,and obviously I was at the end
of my rope.
And so many people turned to Godwhen they have nowhere else to
go.
But then again, he knows thatand he's waiting for you.
Well, no angels, Blair, Jesusdidn't walk in the cell.
But something changed.
Uh, I got bailed out the nextday.
(27:55):
It wasn't looking good because Iheard the attorney tell my
father said he, oh, he's lookingat some time.
But there was something hadchanged at that moment.
So I went back while I waswaiting.
And, uh, for my trial, I, I gota job, showed up at the job,
actually.
We'd go home at night, wasn'tgoing out partying.
(28:18):
I started doing, you know, justdoing the right thing, doing
things that I was, that I wassupposed to do.
12 months passed while I waswaiting for the, uh, while I was
waiting for the trial.
And I had, um, knowing that Iwas going to jail knowing that I
(28:44):
was going to, I spent some timein prison.
I end up go, I walked in thecourtroom and my attorney, I saw
him come, I saw him come out ofthe back of the room with the
judge and he came out withanother man and they motioned me
over to the side.
(29:05):
And I walk in the room and helooks at me and he said, you are
the luckiest client I've everhad.
And I said, what do you mean?
He said, we got it.
I said, we got what?
He said, we got probation.
He said, here's the deal.
He said, you're gonna walk outof this courtroom today, and if
(29:25):
you stay outta trouble for fiveyears, you'll spend, never spend
another day in jail.
And they can wipe this from yourrecord, but you mess up one more
time and you're gonna spend fiveto 15 years in the state
penitentiary.
Wow.
I dropped to the, my chair.
I burst into tears.
I couldn't believe it.
(29:46):
I said, how?
How did this happen?
He said, well, it turned outthat the guy whose store you
tried to rob went to the judgeand he went to the district
attorney and asked them to giveyou a second chance.
And he said, if I was you, Iwould go thank him and
apologize.
So I did that.
(30:07):
I got an appointment with theguy, he owned some other
businesses I went to, uh, had ameeting with him, walked in, and
I told him what, uh, I said, youknow, I thanked him profusely.
I wanted to apologize to thewoman.
He said, the woman doesn't wantanything to do with you.
She, she's not happy that I'vedone this.
(30:27):
I've understood.
But I apologized to him.
Thanked him profusely.
For what he did.
And then when I got up, Richard,I said, well, look, I wanna
thank you for one other thing.
I said, I wanna thank you.
He said, what is that?
I said, I wanna thank you fornot killing me that day.
He said, what do you mean?
I said, well, you, you didn'tshoot at me.
He said, you were obviously, Isaid, you were the shooting to
(30:50):
scare me.
I said, you were right behindme.
So you were just, you know,obviously just trying to scare
me as I was running away.
And he looked at me and leanedup and put his hands on his desk
and he said, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
He said, because I was shootingright at you.
I was so mad at you.
(31:12):
He said, I did want to kill youthat day.
He said, but it was like thebullets were going right through
you.
And he said, I never seenanything like that.
Wow, man.
Got goosebumps.
And I went home.
I got him at that moment.
I went home and I told, uh, hewent, said, I went home and told
my wife, he said, this is thecraziest thing I've ever seen.
(31:36):
And he said, that's whatprompted me to go to the
district attorney.
And this is what prompted me togo to the judge, to tell them,
to give you a second chancebecause somebody's looking after
you and somebody has a purposefor you.
And if I was you, I'd find outwhat it is.
And I told him I would.
And I remember walking outsideand I looked, I got in my car
(31:57):
and I looked at the steeringwheel and I remembered that
moment.
Of flying through that air,asking God to help me, and I
realized he had been with me allthe time and had been watching
over me, and it was at thatmoment that I decided I.
That I was gonna follow hispath, which ended up leading me
(32:22):
to giving my life to Jesus andthe joy.
And that was it.
Uh, when I gave my life toJesus, I was healed of all of
it.
And now I have turned into oneof the happiest people on the
planet.
Unfortunately, we're running outof time, again, because Phoebe
says that you have a meeting.
Uh, but we can pick this up, atour next meeting.
But that was kind of my story upto that moment.
(32:45):
Right up to the moment that Ihad that time where I said, I
realized you've been with me allof this time, waiting for me to
turn and realize that you werewatching over me just like he
was watching over me, over youwaiting for you to reach that
moment.
Uh, yeah, absolutely man, it,it's beautiful, isn't it?
(33:06):
And yeah, thanks for sharingthat, pat.
It's really, you know, I reallyfeel that.
Yeah, it's moved me to tears,man.
You know, like just that, likethe, the beauty of that, that
love, that care, that guidance,that moment, you know, and
those, it's those moments ofdesperation where we turn to
him, you know?
Yeah.
And um, it's funny, like.
(33:27):
I was thinking about this andit's like, you know, too, and
maybe we're not so unlikely asChristians.
'cause actually asked we, hecame for people, our customer,
yeah, he came.
We're not interrupt you, butwe're about to end, but we are
not unlikely.
And we'll keep explaining thatto others, to hopefully others
can share our path there.
Alright, love you man.
Uh, I'll try to see you nextweek and we'll pick up the next
(33:49):
episode.
All right, man.
Take care.
Bye.
God bless you, man.
Bye-bye.
God bless you.
Take care.
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