Ep 5: Spiritual Warfare

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Our hosts speak to the nature of spiritual warfare: what it is, what it means, and how to win the battle.

Episode Transcript

Pat (00:21):
And welcome to two Unlikely Christians podcast.
I'm comedian Pat McCool comingto you from the banks of a lake
deep in the Piney Woods of SouthMississippi.
And to my co-host across thepond in Oxford, England,
esteemed psychotherapist andaddiction specialist Richard ll.

(00:42):
Richard, how you doing, man?

Rich (00:45):
Hey, pat.
I'm all right, man.
I'm doing okay.
Doing all right.
This side of the pond.
Um.
Are you?
How?
How's

Pat (00:51):
Um,

Rich (00:52):
how you been you been humping today?

Pat (00:54):
Not hunting.
I haven't, uh, you know, Ihaven't, uh, I've tried to tell
you I'm not a hunter, but I'mglad I got some in my family,
just in case something.
Matter of fact, I captureroaches and soap boxes and take
'em outside.
I can't kill anything, so.
The, uh, I noticed you'relooking at me.
Kind of funny there with that,so

Rich (01:12):
thought might, I automatically assumed you were
gonna say you tortured them.
'cause that, that's, that'snever a

Pat (01:18):
No, no,

Rich (01:18):
never a good

Pat (01:19):
I'm just, I'm, I'm just not a killer.
I can't kill anything.
My wife looks at me like I'm thebiggest idiot in the world.
I'm like, I can't kill anythingstruggling.
I'm the guy blowing the horntrying to tell Bambi that
there's some collar green eatingcountry boy coming across, the
hill with his F-150.
So, uh, but now I will eat thesteak.
I will eat it all day long and,and speak.

Rich (01:43):
would you make jerky out of the cockroaches?

Pat (01:50):
I be onto something.
Might be on, you know, I didused to eat jerky all of the
time.
Back when I was lifting weightsand taking protein and eating
jerky.
Uh, and, uh, let's say it, itcaused me to develop a severe
problem with.
With my lower GI systems, I hadto give up the jerk there.
So haven't done.

(02:12):
Oh, and speaking of CollardGreen Inc.
And Country Boys, I'm startingto get in trouble hanging out
with you because I just told aguy that he had a lovely new
Ford one F-150.
Now, that might not seem odd onthe streets of Oxford.
But in Mississippi walkingaround telling somebody they
have a lovely truck, can getyou, uh, can get you some.

(02:35):
The guy just looked at me andjust got in the truck and drove
away because I've noticed Yousee?
Yeah, you see you.
Brits are you made quite animpression.
Because Americans, go toEngland, start hanging out with
British people.
We start speaking with anaccent.
You know, I'm out in the heat.
Like, oh my, the humidity iskilling my respiratory system
with Madonna, marries guyRichie, and six months later is

(02:58):
talking like she grew up innodding hill.
I, I've noticed you don't getoff the plane in New Orleans and
go, Hey gw, pat, how y'alldoing?

Rich (03:09):
It's'cause it, it's'cause it's our language pattern.
See?
And then essentially you are oursubject.
So when you are around us, youautomatically, it's like an
inbuilt sort of like deference,you know?
Like, like you become like us.
'cause you realize thatessentially we own you.
Yeah.

Pat (03:26):
It's in our DNAI see.
Well that, that makes sense.
Well, it's getting like said, Idon't know.
I don't know if the guy told hehad a lovely truck.
It's gonna speak to me again.

Rich (03:36):
I, I'm surprised I didn't get links, man.
Do you know what I mean?
Uh.

Pat (03:40):
No, we had to give that up quite a while back, so, uh.
We wanna thank everybody that'slistening to us today'cause we
have a fantastic topic.
And it is called spiritualwarfare.
And it's spiritual warfare issomething that everybody, every
non-believer deals with andevery, um.
Every believer deals with, ifyou're a non-believer, you're in

(04:03):
a spiritual warfare, you're justlosing it because you haven't
realized that the truth aboutJesus, if you are a believer,
Uh.
you are battled every daybecause the warfare is really
real because you're beingattacked by an enemy.
And so today, that's what we'regonna discuss and we'll let,
Richard get started

Rich (04:20):
pat.
Thanks man.
So look, I thought this was areally nice topic.
Like as a new Christian comingin, I think I, uh, and I see
lots of people that have it, isthat like I.
idea that you're gonna come,you're gonna kind of come in,
you find Jesus, you know, havethat experience of like grace,
love, forgiveness, mercy, all ofthat, you know, compassion,
salvation, all of those things.

(04:41):
And everything's gonna be allright.
You know, you're gonna feelgood.
Like wake up every day, youknow, sunshine.
Glitter rainbows, everything'sgonna be just, just akay.
And, and actually it's not thecase.
I mean, that's not real lifeanyway, I don't think.
But once I started to understandwhat spiritual warfare was, you
know, and that idea and how itmanifests and has, has

(05:04):
manifested in my life as aChristian and.
Quite a lot.
I really started to understandwhat I was up against, the
spiritual warfare one.
One definition would be ongoingbattle between good and evil,
particularly between the kingdomof God and the forces of
darkness, and that there's ascripture reference here.

(05:25):
Which is Ephesians 6 12 4.
We're not fighting against fleshand blood enemies, against evil
rulers and authorities of theunseen world against mighty
powers in this dark world.
against evil

Pat (05:39):
Yeah.

Rich (05:40):
in the heavenly places.
So for me, like obviously keento hear your experience with
this pack, but like for me it'slike, you know, you, you, you
spoke there about, you know, ifyou're a non-believer, you are
in it, you just don't knowyou're in it.
And if you're a believer,hopefully you know you're in it
essentially.
'cause,'cause you, you're gonnabe in it one way or another.

(06:01):
So when I was active in,

Pat (06:03):
Yeah.

Rich (06:03):
addictions and, you know, live in a very, um.
Like deprived way of life,essentially, you know, taking
and selling drugs, doing all thethings I was doing, like I'm in
it, but it doesn't feel like I'min it.
I dunno, I'm in it.
'cause like, I'm just surroundedby darkness, right?
It's like the devil's got, youknow, the devil's got his hand
like, well and firmly on thetiller of my life, like 100%

(06:26):
he's calling the shots, right?
I'm in it, I'm surrounded by it,I'm doing his work essentially,
right?
Like, so.
The battle is less noticeable.
The conflict is less noticeablewhen I come to Christ and have
that personal experience ofbeing in Christ, like having a
personal relationship with him.
You know, understanding thelove, the mercy, you know, well

(06:48):
that stuff.
Understanding how loved I am,understanding I'm forgiven,
know, it's touching thatinfinite grace and goodness and
beauty and love.
Then all of a sudden I noticethe attacks.
Right.
And the attacks come in manydifferent ways.
Like it, that can be, it's thesudden burst of anger that comes

(07:08):
from nowhere.
You know, it's the resentment,it's the, you know, in prayer
that resentment that all of asudden just thunders into my
head and knocks me out ofcontact with God.
You know, it's the greed, youknow, it's the fear, it's the
anxiety, it's the, um, a bit ofwork and then, and getting into
this real panic.

(07:29):
I'm not gonna have a, you know,forgetting that actually I'm
provided for and I'm, you know,I'm looked after well, you know,
like, God didn't bring me thisfar to a abandon me now.
You know, all those kind ofthings.
Like it shows up in all thesedifferent ways and it shows up
in addictions as well.
And I don't just mean theobvious ones, like drug
addictions and stuff thatplagued me for many years, but
in all of the lower leveladdictions that we are all in.
You know, like smartphones,social media, buying things,

(07:53):
getting the next flat screen tv,getting in the next, you know,
truck.
I know you were joking aboutthat, but, you know, needing the
bigger truck.
For me it's like been like,German, pass off.
I need, you know.
What I need is, I need a betterBMW, you know, I need a better
watch.
You know, like, I like Pat, Ihad six watches at one point.
I've got, I've got two wristsand I can only want to wear a
watch on one of them.

(08:14):
Do you know what I mean?
Like, but it's that need, thatneed that hunger, you know, all
that stuff.
That's all, it all falls intokind of the, um, the, the,
bracket of spiritual warfare.
Right?
And then.
Because it's an ongoing war.
War.
It's like the devil.

(08:35):
I'll tell, I'll tell you how wasexplained to me, right?
But like how it explained to meis like the, A thief doesn't
come to rob an empty house,right?
So for me, like actually thecloser I've come to God, like
the more I've developed therelationship with Jesus and
those moments where like I feltso close to him, it's like I
could almost feel his hand on myshoulder or feel, know, feel his

(08:56):
embrace around me, right?
Those will be my, those will bethe moments that I often
followed by the hardest attacks.
You know, well, I will doubt.
never really lost my faith, butlike sometimes I'll, doubt my
own worthiness, I'll doubt myability to follow through.
You know, I'll doubt know, thatI, know, I don't lose my faith

(09:18):
that he's real, but I, I might,I might, Lose faith in the fact
that I'm good enough to be lovedby him.
You know, whatever it might be.
But that's like something comingin to separate me.
Some kind of dark message comesin to separate me.
And so that's, you know, I guessthat in a nutshell, that's me,
like on a day-to-day basis,that's what spiritual warfare

(09:39):
looks like.
You know?
What about you, pat?

Pat (09:41):
Yeah, well that's a perfect illustration because the devil's
the great tormentor, the it isthe great torment.
He wakes up every morning and hestarts firing arrows at you.
Now remember, most, all of theproblems in today's world,
almost every problem stemmedfrom what.
One lie he told one lie to oneperson.

(10:03):
He told one lie to eve and thatsent everything in motion.
So you think he's going to stoplying?
No.
What he's doing is he's lying tous.
He's lying to you every morning.
He wants you to be miserable.
You know there's a scripturethat says what God wants us to
do once we start following himsto go out and share where you're
not out sharing the gospel.

(10:26):
When you're miserable and you'retormented, and you mentioned a
couple of words.
Um, one was, resentment.
He causes you to resent otherpeople that he put into your
life.
And I have so many examples.
Um.
Of all the things, you know, wecovered in the other episodes
and we both know each other'sstories.

(10:47):
Of all the miracles that I hadgone through, uh, bullets flying
at me, coming out of wreckedcars, uh, not paying attention
to school, and he gave me all ofthese incredible blessings.
And then I would get, I would,I'd get into the business world
and forget all of that, of allof those things that would
happen.
I've had, situation aftersituation.

(11:09):
Where he would perform a co.
You know, there's a chapter inmy book called, what a
Coincidence.
You don't remember everythingthat's in there, but, uh, there
was just so many coincidences.
I'm being sarcastic because you,it was just like, yeah, these
aren't coincidences.
This is God in my life.
And he does it all the time.
But I would have a week go by.
Where these miracles happen.

(11:30):
And then I, you sit down onFriday and you just celebrate
him.
You know, God is so good.
Look what he did and look how hetook care of this.
And look at all the blessings.
'cause you're counting yourblessings on Friday.
And then I would wake up onMonday morning, I.
And completely forget everythingthat was in my head 48 hours
earlier, because the devil issitting there waiting to torment

(11:53):
you.
He's shooting arrows at you allof the time.
And you're talking about rage.
When I first got married, uh.
God had, had, had orchestratedjust the, the perfect woman.
I've been married 35 years.
I didn't know her at the time,but we fought like cats and
dogs.
I had, I was this rageaholic, Iall, you know, just angry, ready

(12:14):
to fly off on a handle.
Uh, and because you fearedlosing what you had.
Well, God gave it to you.
God gave you all of thesethings.
You're sitting there listeningto the devil saying, yeah, well
you might could lose this.
You might could lose that.
And he's making you, he's makingyou resent people around you.

(12:35):
My wife for example, he's alwayswas, was trying to convince me
she was something that she wasnot.
My wife after, in our first fewyears of marriage, we fought
like cats and dogs.
I mean brutal screaming, uh,fights.
And I would notice, startednoticing,, I would get up and
go, this woman gets up everymorning and does things and I'm
not even asking her to do, tostart trying to taking care of

(12:57):
me.
I started paying attention.
It took a while, but the devilwas trying to destroy that.
It's just like he's trying todestroy you.
He's trying to hurt you.
And you mentioned, uh, rage andresentment.
I know people that are very dearto me that will, that, that are
knocking li they are punchinglife in the face and I'm

(13:20):
referring to women here.
They have children, husbands,families, they get up and I am
just amazed at what they do on aregular basis.
But I've also noticed thatthey're constantly stressed out.
About what you just said, notgetting approval, not doing the

(13:41):
right thing.
What if I don't do this?
What if I don't do that?
Uh, my wife used to stress allof the time, and it took us
years to get past this of megetting mad about her not being
what she's supposed to be ordoing all, all of this.
Well, it wasn't me in thebeginning.
I might have given off thosevibes, but that's Sadie.

(14:02):
That is literally nothing fromthe pits of hell.
That's attacking us every singleday that We get up in the
morning.
Because the O you know the otherscripture, the devil is the
great tormentor.
That's what he's trying to do.
If you are not a Christian, he'strying to keep you from being
one.
But once you become one, and themore you start following God,

(14:23):
the more lessons you have, themore you can make an impact and
show other people, and the moredifference that you can have in
a life, like it could be amother with children that's
doing just a, an incredible job.
I see people in my life that I'mjust amazed at how well that
they handle life.
They're tougher than I am.
You know, women are tougher thanus.

(14:44):
Rich, If you don't know that,wait till the woman gets sick.
You know, and you don't know it.
Because my wife would get up andshe would work five days a week,
take care of everything, andthen, and she'd say, I got a
headache.
I'm not doing so well.
I'm not, you know, and I'm, I'mthinking maybe she's got a
little cold and then six dayslater I get it and I'm not get
I, you know, I'm, I'm callingthe family around.

(15:05):
Let's get everybody, let's geteverybody in here because I
don't know if I'm gonna make itthrough this.

Rich (15:10):
Yeah,

Pat (15:10):
know?

Rich (15:11):
the same We got the

Pat (15:12):
Yeah.

Rich (15:12):
over here.
Yeah.

Pat (15:14):
Oh God, this could be it.
Let's get everybody in for thefinal goodbyes.
Well, the women in my life andI, and I'm bringing them up
specifically.
Are some of the most toughestand amazing people.
Um, and my wife has a sister.
I don't that that's just likethat.
These people are tough.
They're punching life in theface.
They spend their every wakingmoment I.

(15:35):
Trying to help take care of, notthat that's their job to do it,
they just do it.
They're literal rock stars, butthey get up on Monday morning
and walk around, stressed outbecause they're afraid.
They're all those things youjust mentioned.
I'm not good enough.
I'm not getting the approval,you know, the, I'm, no, they're
not trying to get approval, but,you know, I wanna be approved

(15:57):
of, I don't, you know, you as apsychotherapist may know this,
you know something that goes allthe way back.
To childhood.
Uh, I don't know if that's wherethat comes from, but the devil
uses that.
The devil is constantly tellingthem, I'm always amazed.
I'm trying to tell them, you'rerock stars.
God loves you and gave you allthis blessing and you're not
able to enjoy it because he isbeating you up on a daily basis

(16:20):
and he's lying to you.
'cause that's what he is.
He's the great deceiver.
Uh, and he's a tormentor andthat's what he's trying to do.
He's just trying to torment you.
I just.
Had a conversation with a guythat was getting ready to go on
a, a job interview, and he's allstressed out because somebody in
his life was telling him, uh,somebody that, that should have

(16:43):
been a supportive person in hislife and should have been an
example to him.
It always kind of beaten himdown because this guy was a bit
of a bit of a failure.
Well, since I'm not mentioningwho the guy is, it, it was his
father.
And this guy's all stressed out.
So I start talking to him.
He tell me a little bit aboutyour life, and then he starts
telling me all of the thingshe's overcome.

(17:03):
Now, you and I have overcomebullets and stabbings and the
drugs and addiction, but theaverage person that didn't go
through that.
They've overcome, amazing andvery tough situations.
And this guy starts telling meabout the tough family situation
and all of these things and howhe loved God and how God was
always there for him and how hewas the most important thing for

(17:26):
him.
And he said, no matter what'shappened, I all, you know, and
growing up in my family, nomatter what happened, I could
always depend on God.
And then I just looked at himand I said, did you hear what
you just said?
You've always been able todepend on the Lord, and now
you're about to have a panicattack about whether this job
interview and this job is theright thing because somebody who

(17:47):
hasn't set a good example istearing you down.
Well, the devil's using thatperson.
Sometimes the devil speaks youhimself.
Sometimes he use, he uses otherpeople, but that's what he's
trying to do.
He's trying to destroy us.
He's trying to tear us down, andhe shouts.
That's the thing.

(18:07):
God gave us this book.
He gave us the Bible.
So in the Bible, it's not just abook.
We think of it as the book, andwe think of it as just as this
scripture, but it's him talkingto us and he talks softly.
We have to go to him.
But the devil doesn't wait.
The devil's screaming in ourears on a regular basis and
every morning, but everythingyou said, that was pretty much a

(18:30):
brilliant summation.
If people just understood thatwe are in a spiritual warfare.
It's not you.
It's not that you are not doingthe right.
Thing, and it's just, oh, thisis just the way I am.
Oh, I'm a person that freaks outeasy and all this.
And I, and I watch these people,I'm like, you don't freak out
easy.
When the chips are down, youhandle everything.
You handle it masterfully.
You are just convinced in yourhead by this evil spirit that

(18:54):
you're not doing right.
And the fear, oh, what if Idon't do this?
What if this doesn't happen?
What if this what?
You know, what if this goeswrong?
Um, it's all a lie from Satan.

Rich (19:07):
Yeah, let me come in with some scripture, pat.
So, uh, one Peter there's,there's a couple of, there's
some verses, but I'm actuallygonna read them in reverse, so
like.
Verse one Peter five, eightsays, staler, watch out for your
great enemy, the devil.
He plowed around like a roaringlion looking for someone to
devour.
And so for me, what that lookslike is like.

(19:30):
Know, like, so I've, you know,I'm in a relationship with a,
you know, an amazing Christianwoman and um, you know,
sometimes she's just does themost amazing, kind, thoughtful
things.
Yeah.
And in those moments, like Ifeel so close to her, I feel so
blessed.
I feel so grateful to God forputting this woman in my life.
And that mean that's the wholestory in that, right.
But like, how we ended uptogether.
But, um.

(19:52):
And I'll just have that momentwhere I can just, you know, and
I just know, I just know Pat,you know, that we're gonna do
great things together for thekingdom.
Yeah.
then his voice in my head coast.
Yeah.
But what about the other nightwhen she said that thing?
You know?
Or like, like.
And, and it goes on from there.
But where it can get to is like,it can get quite dark, right?

(20:15):
Like it can get to, you know, toa point where I'm just kind of
building a case against heralmost, it's almost like a
voice.
That is not my own right.
Or it's certainly the, theoriginal thought, you know,
there's little kind of nuggetsthat just dropped in, like, are
not my own, right.
And that, and I've had thoseexperiences where, and it might
sound to the uninitiated, itmight sound like schizophrenic

(20:36):
or something, but it's, it'slike, it's really not right.
But like, well, like these,these thoughts are running and
organizing themselves aroundfacts which are real, right?
But like.
I don't believe this, and yetthis tape continues to play, you
know, and it's like you, like,you know, sort of the, the devil
p prs around, like looking for away in it.

(20:57):
And he said something someminutes ago, pat.
You know where those, you know,those women in your family, you
know, they're like rockstar, youknow, they're crushing life and
all the rest of it, but they,they have all these insecurities
and stuff.
Like, then you refer toobviously my kind of background
and knowledge and training as apsychotherapist, right?
So where I've, I've come to howI've come to think of that, you

(21:19):
know, through the process ofbeing a psychotherapist, but
also being a Christian, is thatthat the, the wounding, the
trauma.
You know, the, the, thedifficult adverse stuff that
happens to us when we're, whenwe're little, right?
Um, it's like it, those things,like they leave the craps in us,
in our psyche that the devilgets in through, you know what I

(21:42):
mean?
And they put, they've given thematerial that he works with, you
know, and if you look at themost.
Horrifically tortured souls, youknow, psychotic, schizophrenic,
you know, you can see in theirmadness, right?
How the, the things thathappened to them are like

(22:09):
twisted and distorted andprojected and.
Like they, they're worst fearslike used against them, you
know?
So I was doing some readingabout intrusive thoughts the
other day.
Right.
uh, read a description, itwasn't a super clinical
textbook, but I was reading thisdescription of an intrusive
thought and it said intrusivethoughts were often play on your

(22:30):
darkest fears about yourself.
Yeah.
They'll speak to you in a voicethat sounds like they're your
own.
Right.
They will say things to you thatare terrifying.
Yeah, and it will make youquestion like your own, you
know, whether you are an evilperson, you know, stuff like
that.
You know, really intrusivethoughts.
Right?
And I've worked professionallywith people that have had

(22:52):
intrusive, you know, verysevere, intrusive thoughts,
right?
And you think about thatdescription, you know, it uses
your worst fears against you.
You know, like speaks to in avoice that sounds like your own,
but it isn't, you know, and it'slike, and part of work with
people that suffer in that wayis to help them to kind of
dis-identify with that, torealize it isn't them.
I dunno about you, mate, but tome that sounds like the devil.

(23:14):
You know, like, oh yeah, that'swhat, you know, that's what
we're kind of up against.
But the other bit of scripturethat I wanted to read is
actually just above that one,Peter five, six, and seven.
It says So, so humble yourselvesunder the mighty power of God.
at the right time, he will liftyou up in honor, give all your
worries and cares to God for hecares about you.

(23:35):
You know?
And sometimes for me, you know,like I can be an anxious guy,
pat, right?
Sometimes it's like I need toget, I need to give them to God
and then I'll take them back andI need to give them back to him.
And then I'll take them back andthen I need to give them back to
him and then I'll take themback.
But like, if I can, if I cankeep him front and center.
Then I can survive.
You know, I can kind of getthrough and I don't have to full

(23:56):
praise to the attacks, to theworries, to the fears, the
anxieties, right?
Um, and there's a bit, just aswe talk, like, um, this just
occurs to me.
So it says in, in verse six,there, humble yourselves under
the mighty power of God.
At the right time, he will liftyou up in honor.
So at the end of Romans, Paultalks about, I'm just finding it

(24:21):
in my Bible.
It's not on the scripture, butthere's the bit of the end of
Romans where, um, Paul talksabout like having a thorn in his
side.
Yeah.
That he asked God to remove.
He asked God to remove threetimes.

(24:42):
Yeah.
And then what the Lord turnedaround and said to me is like,
grace should be sufficient foryou.
sometimes I think that has, forme, there's, there has to be,
sometimes that's suffering andable to suffer through an
attack, with, but know, like,know that I'm protected, that
I'm cared for, that no weaponformed against me can prosper.

(25:05):
And being able to withstand thatattack actually is a, that is a,
that is something that builds myfaith, you know?
That's like flexing my spiritualmuscles, you know, because his
grace is sufficient for me,

Pat (25:18):
Yeah, it's the struggle.
I've learned to trust God by allof the struggles that I've been
through.
All of those things, uh, thatyou've been through, that I've
been through, and the peoplethat are listening have been
through incredible things thatthemselves that have built their
faith to know.
That they should be followingGod, that they should be

(25:38):
listening, that they should havea way of getting up.
They have a way of pay of everymorning.
Paying attention to God hasblessed me, I have his grace
everywhere, and this is what I'mliving with.
Look at my children, look at myfamily, look at my, everything
that, that I've done.
But the devil is constantly theone that's trying to tear you
down.
But what you just said.

(26:00):
Is perfect.
It's learning to lean on God andhe will, you mentioned something
earlier.
He uses everything in our livesall the way back to our
childhood.
I, for some reason, I have thismemory of everything going back
to through my childhood.
And he uses that to bring thatup to wound you.

(26:20):
You know?
I think, Um.
When you and I first met in ourconversation, I was asking you,
I was like, you know, I run intopeople that have, you know, with
addictions and things.
I think I said, I think it, alot of it stems from not feeling
loved and they don't realizethat they have a heavenly
father.
That it's not just, these aren'tjust phrases.
We have a heavenly father,creator of the earth that we're

(26:41):
gonna spend eternity with.
That's watching us, loves us, isprotecting us just like we
protect our own children.
But the devil wants us to forgetabout that, and he constantly
reminds us, just like when I metmy wife, uh, I think I told you
when I got married within ahundred days in a double wide
trailer.
That should make you, you shouldbe proud of this.

(27:02):
We,

Rich (27:02):
Oh, oh, don't you worry, pat.
I, I, I've noted that down.
I was gonna come back to thatpoint, but please, you go on.

Pat (27:10):
Yeah, 100 days.
I got married in a double widetrailer and the guy went out and
showed us his goats and uh, hehad the goats and the donkeys
and we picked up a box of, uh, Ithink Kentucky Fried Chicken
and, That was, uh, that was 35years ago.
But I moved in because when Imet my wife, this was the best

(27:31):
looking woman that had ever,most beautiful woman that had
ever given me the time of day.
Now, you know, I.
I didn't know.
I just, I, I probably moved forsuperficial reasons, but I'm
like, I, you know, I, before shefinds out that I don't have a
fortune stashed in the Caymansand I haven't saved children
from burning buildings andwhatever other nonsense I'm

(27:53):
telling her I've gotta go makethe deal.
So what do you think the devildoes once we get married?
He starts reminding me ofchildhood and, and teenage
years, and he's reminded me acouple of times when I almost
got married.
And I got dumped, and it was theend of the world.
When I got dumped, it was, oh, Ihave no reason to live.

(28:14):
I was like, I can't believethis.
I'm destroyed.
I, I thought I loved this woman.
Well, it turned out to be the,some of the biggest bullet
dodging in my life.
It was like, do you see whatwould've happened had you found,
I had this, I knew when you wereborn.
That this was going to work outand you were gonna meet this

(28:35):
woman, but the devil comes inand says What you were referring
to a minute ago, the devilstarts coming in and going, oh,
that's it.
This is too good to be true.
Oh, you know, she doesn't, uh,you know, something you'd said
earlier, oh, well she said this,or she does that, or what?
The devil was constantly tryingto ruin this relationship.
Constantly, and he does it withother people that have been

(28:56):
married for a long time thatdon't even think that's
happening.
You mentioned the wordresentment.
A woman or a man or somebodythat's constantly trying to make
sure everybody in their family'staken care of and their spouse,
oh my gosh.
I hear, oh my gosh, if thishappens, so and so will be so
upset.
You've just put that in yourhead.
The devil's just telling youbecause what he's doing is he's

(29:17):
making you resent that person.
Because you're all stressed outtrying to make, trying to make
them happy and things like that.
And yeah, he literally almostdestroyed a marriage that's 35
years going with.
Three children, eightgrandchildren and Joy.
Oh, and my wife was a Church ofGod, pastor's daughter who

(29:40):
really led me on the straightand narrow.
If I hear one more time, youneed to talk to Jesus about
that.
That's her thing.
When I got into comedy and Iwould get ready to ride, Hey,
what do you think about thisbit?
You think this is a little too,uh, why don't you talk to Jesus
about your little urologistjoke.
But the point is all this joyand peace and happiness and all

(30:01):
that you have, I mean, when Imet you.
It was, uh, just to tell thequick story.
You and I met and we had thisconversation.
We had this bond over something.
We just started talking and wehit it off, and we both had this
desire to help other people.
Well, we did not know we wereChristians.
We,

Rich (30:20):
Yeah,

Pat (30:21):
we did not know that we were Christians.
I'm talking to this guy fromLondon.
I know England is not, it's notthe Bible belt.
And so you and I are talking andwe just, we, there was something
in common.
So we started talking back andforth and kind of continued our
conversation and you knew I do,I'm a comedian, but I also do
some speaking.
I give my testimony and I wassaying, I, you know, I do.

(30:44):
Also do speaking.
I wrote a book and I try to helppeople.
I do my comedy act and thingslike that, but I never said it
was testimony you said.
Yeah, I had a desire to help.
So we were gonna get togetherand we were gonna have, uh, a
convers, you know, justcontinuing our conversation.
I'm think I'm kind of putting itoff'cause I'm like, I gotta tell
this guy that I'm a Christianand my ultimate solution to all

(31:06):
my peace and all my problems, itall comes from my relationship
with Jesus.
So we go a couple of months,maybe it was six months before
we finally talked, and Iimmediately was like, well, I
this And I, you looked up andwent, are you a Christian?
Are you a Christian?
Oh, I'm too.
And then we lit up.
But see, the devil's telling me,yeah, this guy not going to,

(31:27):
yeah, he's not going to acceptthe faith and this, that you're
what you're saying.
But it was the genesis of ourwhole conversation.
But you see, it's the spiritualwarfare.
Is the devil saying, no, you'renot good enough.
No, don't go talking to somebodyabout Jesus.
Don't go talking to somebodyabout God.
And my relationship with you isa great blessing in my life.

(31:49):
And the devil tried to preventthat and he does it.
And everything we are doing inlife, go ahead.

Rich (31:56):
And the thing is, if you don't know that that's what's
going on, then it just becomesthe truth.
Like your wife is a whatever,you know, whatever you wanna,
you know.
She does need to go actually,yeah, she needs to go.
You know what I mean?
Like she just hits Henry to goand talk to Jeez.
Like, what?
You need to go, you do.
Yeah.
Or like, you know, you do need,you know, like your ass isn't
good enough or big enough andyou do need that car and that

(32:17):
person is a, you know what, youknow, and you do need to go and
punch that guy in the face.
You know, like, because youdunno.
That's what you're, you'redealing with.
Yeah.
Like, you don't know that's whatyou are dealing with.
And some of that's, you know,some, the world gives us some of
those ideas anyway.
Right.
But yeah, that's that spiritualwarfare aspect to it.
And it's like if you don't know,if you don't know you're under

(32:38):
attack, it's like if you're ageneral in a war and you don't
even know that you're underattack, you ain't gonna do too
well, right.
So I think, you know,recognizing.
in the spiritual walk.
No, the nature of spiritualwarfare and what it is, is, I
mean, there's a, there's anopportunity for freedom, growth,
and healing and understandingthat's what's happening to you,

(33:00):
as you grow.
The further I've got into myfaith walk and like as I've
come, you know, I mean, you sortof hit on this earlier, but it's
like as my, when my faith isreally bubbling up, and I'm
really close to.
Doing things that are reallygonna kind of grow the kingdom
is often when I experience theworst attacks, you know?

(33:23):
yeah.

Pat (33:24):
because

Rich (33:24):
just, I guess

Pat (33:25):
You alluded to it earlier, you're a high value target.
So the closer you get to livinglife and peace, joy, and
happiness, the more attacks thatyou're going to have, the more
arrows.
I mean it literally, you can seethe evil spirit shooting an
arrow at you, just everynegative thought that's coming
in your head.

(33:46):
It is an arrow and the more you,the closer you come to living
the way God has intended you tolive, to have joy, peace, and
happiness, and you're sharingthat doesn't have to be
verbally, but it's the way thatyou're living, that he's trying
to make you miserable.
You are always on the cusp ofbeing attacked and Satan's
always there and he does it toeverybody.

(34:07):
And people just need tounderstand, uh, you hit the nail
on the head.
And I think we can wrap it withthis, that everyone is in a
spiritual warfare.
I think it's brilliant what yousaid.
We just don't realize we're in aspiritual warfare.
Once I started realizing, I'mlike, I just, I can laugh it
off.
I'm like, you've got to bekidding me.

(34:28):
When I start hearing thesevoices.
When these attacks come, andwhen Satan says these things, I
just laugh it off.
Once you realize you're in aspiritual war, I.
The wars won.
Jesus won the war.
All you gotta do is just get onthe right side.
And if it's scripture, if it'ssomething you need to.
read, it's just remindingyourself, it's walking with

(34:51):
Jesus.
They talk about this, walkingwith Jesus, or you're gonna walk
over here.
And that's what we do.
We get up on Monday morning andwe just start walking around
without the shield, without thefull armor of God, which you
mentioned a minute ago.
And we could be living joyful.
Peaceful, far more productivelives if we were not listening
to the devil.

(35:11):
And one last thing I wanna say,do you know there's one phrase
repeated in the Bible, 365times.

Rich (35:22):
Oh, you're gonna embarrass me now, pat.

Pat (35:25):
No, No, I'm not trying to, I'm not Richard.
Listen.

Rich (35:28):
no, it's No, no, no.
I know you're not trying it.
Go on.

Pat (35:31):
Uh, no, I'm not.
Your ability to rememberscripture is phenomenal.
Nobody would, you know, nobodywould really pick up on this i'm
amazed at how you rememberscripture.
My, here's my.
When we talk, I jot.
Yeah.
I gotta jot down and write down,and then I can't write, so I
can't read what I wrote.
So, you're perfect with thescripture, but there's one

(35:54):
phrase in the Bible that'srepeated 365 times.
Do not be afraid.
It's not a verse, it's in theBible.
He repeats it 365 times.
Is it a coincidence that it's365 times that he repeats it?

(36:17):
I think not.
He repeats it 365 times becausewe need it 365 times because
fear, it is the root ofeverything.
Fear is the root of our anxiety.
Fear of not doing the rightthing for my family, fear of not
coming through, fear of notbeing enough.
This is what I see in thesewomen in my life that could turn

(36:39):
around and tell us, man, just goshut up and go do it yourself.
And we would go on and do it.
But they think they've gottacome living up to somebody.
It's just like you do it andjust like everybody does it.
But he says 365 times in theBible, and that's what the Bible
is.
It's God talking to us.
Do not be afraid.
We shouldn't be afraid.

(37:01):
And we, Jesus won the spiritualwar and we need to walk in the
grace and the peace that he'sgiven us.
So if you have any finalthoughts there, rich.

Rich (37:11):
Chuck, you know, you mentioned about like scripture
or reading, whatever, but justprayer man.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that's the, that's theweapon, you know?
It's like it's our way ofgetting.
Arm it up, you know, so theessential part of the armor, you
know what I mean?
So we, you know, we use the wordof God is the sword, in the

(37:32):
spiritual armor.
So that's our weapon.
But prayer as well, man.
You know, like, so like justtaking it to, just leaving it
the foot of the cross, if youdunno what that means, if you're
listening, we dunno what thatmeans.
It's just like, like Pat saidabout, you know, the battles
won.
He won the battle.
Jesus won the battle.
Like the lie is dead, right.
So, you know, that was done onthe cross know, if you dunno

(37:54):
what that means, it stickaround, it will become clear.
So we leave our worries and weleave our fears and you know,
we, our struggles, we leave itat the foot of the cross.
And for me, and I had a very, Iwas praying this week and I
just, I just kind of imaginemyself really like, just lie
like kind of on my like handsand knees, like just at the foot

(38:14):
of the cross, fucking his shadowYeah, just the awesome power
that's there.
It's like the, you know, the,the being that like blown the
stars into the sky is hanging afew feet above me, and like
that, the awesome power that'sthere, you know?
And so that's where, that'swhere the battles won was one is

(38:36):
one continues to be one.
We just gotta get up, just gottaget near it, you know?
And somewhere in thatsubmission.
Prayer is a great way ofsubmitting.
Somewhere in that submission,we,

Pat (38:50):
Well, that's ultimately

Rich (38:51):
we

Pat (38:51):
prayer

Rich (38:52):
Yeah.

Pat (38:53):
if you're talking to God.
You can't hear Satan, you can'thear those voices.
One thing you reminded me of wasI noticed years ago that I would
pray a lot when I was, uh, likelaying in the bed and I would
start praying and I would bestressed, you know, order where

(39:13):
I'm praying about and I wouldfall asleep in the middle of my
prayer.
And I started thinking, boy,that's, you know, I'm, I'm
trying to pray to God howdisrespectful I'm praying, but
I'm falling asleep while I'mpraying.
And then it dawned on me.
When I say dawned on me, I feelthis came from God.
I'm not one of those that sayGod told me, but I feel like

(39:34):
that's what this explanation,what was happening.
It's when you start praying toGod.
Then the peace comes in, theHoly Spirit takes over.
You have Holy Spirit in you.
we all, we're all filled withthe Holy Spirit.
We have as much Holy Spirit asthe people on the day of
Pentecost.
It's just as much that we use.

(39:56):
So you start talking to God,you're praying, and then the
peace comes over me.
So when that peace comes overme.
I fall asleep because I'm notlistening to Satan telling me
What happens if this doesn'twork out and you've gotta do
this and you've gotta get readyfor this.
Oh, and you remember this?
Oh, and you remember back in thesixth grade, you should have

(40:17):
punched that kid in the face.
All that crazy stuff leaves whenyou're talking to God.
So prayer.
Is the answer.
but I know people that get up ona daily basis that don't, if
just keep God, you don't have tosit down and go in the CLO at
that you need.
That's very beneficial.
But if you just wake up in themorning and going, I'm walking

(40:38):
with Jesus today, walking withGod, and I'm just thinking, and
those scriptures, rememberthat's how that scripture that
impacted me, What you said aboutthat day in South Africa when
you were really kind of comingthrough some things and you
pulled that scripture out and itchanged everything right there.
But just put the word of God inyour hands.
Keep it with you.
Walk with you and think aboutit.

(40:58):
God's won the battle.
Stop living a miserable life anda tormented life because the
same.
Person that lied to Eve allthose years ago that caused all
these problems, has now turnedhis focus to you, and all the
negative stuff that's going inyour head is all coming from

(41:19):
him.
All the positive that you canlook around and actually see the
reality, that's God, and that'swhat you should focus on.
So Rich, it was a great talk.
Uh, I know we're late in theevening over there and you've
got plans, so I hope you have agood time and uh, we will, uh,
talk to you next week.

Rich (41:41):
Yeah.
God bless you, pat.
Good being with you,

Pat (41:43):
Alright,

Rich (41:43):
Take care.
Bye.

Pat (41:45):
you too.
God bless everyone else outthere.
Take care.