May 6, 2024 • 42 mins
Ever wonder how you got here as you blow out the candles on your birthday cake? That's where we begin in this episode, making space for the bittersweet emotions of milestone birthdays and the impending retirements of colleagues we admire.
In our main segment, we talk about the possibilities of the College-Level Examination Program (CLEP) that can save college students serious time and money. Never heard of it? We speculate about why that might be as well as describe what it can (and can’t) do for lifelong learners curious about alternative pathways to college.
Wherever you are in your educational journey, it’s never too late to experience the joy of learning and discovery!
Show Notes
- YCBK 230: Interview about CLEP & Modernstates.org with David Vise (Your College-Bound Kid Podcast)
- CLEP Tests: Exam Topics (CLEP | College Board)
- CLEP Classes and Vouchers: Modern States
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- Email: uncoveredlifebeyond@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Rebecca, and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we've questionedour faith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path Along the
way, we've uncovered a fewinsights we want to share with
fellow travelers.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
We want to talk about the questions we didn't know
who to ask and the options wedidn't know we had.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up, we are here to cheeryou on and assure you that the
best is yet to come.
Welcome to Uncovered LifeBeyond.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toUncovered Life Beyond.
(01:09):
This is Naomi.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
And this is Rebecca, so here we are, we are.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's been a big week for you.
You've had a milestone birthday.
Oh, the big five.
Happy birthday.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
What an accomplishment.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Do you ever wonder, like how?
Years from 40.
And that blew my mind 14 yearsfrom 40.
(01:56):
And our mind is just going.
And we are just like we blewway past that birthday a long
time ago.
You know, it's been reallyinteresting for me, because I go
between both being gratefulthat I'm here, but then also
angry that I'm here, yeah, andfinally I decided it's okay if
(02:19):
both are true.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I was doing everything I could to make sure
I'm graduated by the time I'm 50.
And I'm not, and I tell myselfit's okay, in the grand scheme
of life it really doesn't matter.
But for some reason it doeskind of matter, and so I've been
trying to figure out why.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, one thing that definitely matters is the
unfairness that graduatingsooner wasn't an option for you.
There's no shame in graduatingafter you're 50, but it's
infuriating to know that youcould have graduated so much
sooner, but that roadblocks wereput up to block you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, and like, sometimes I sit in classes with
these kids and you know, when Istarted out there was maybe 20
years between us.
Now there's almost 30 yearsbetween us and, dude, like some
of the comments, I'm just likeoh my god, grow up.
Right like some of the comments, I'm just like, oh my god, grow
(03:30):
up right, yeah, but but atleast I'm almost finished and
I'm not just starting so that'sa good thing too and you know
what?
I have amazing friends andfamily and people have been so
kind.
Um, I got a lovely box from you.
I, my sister, sent me somethingreally fun.
Oh my goodness.
The girls from work were sokind, so there's a restaurant
(03:52):
right across the street fromwhere I work and they were like,
hey, we should meet forbreakfast before work next
Saturday.
And I'm like, yeah, why haven'twe been doing this all along?
Let's do it it.
So I got there and I wasrunning late and oh, they had
champagne and gifts and oh,there was like a tiara for me to
(04:15):
wear and it said 15 fabulous.
And they had happy birthdaylittle crown thingies.
And then we get back to thewinery and they had balloons up
and ribbons up and all the funthings, I know, I know right.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Like I think it was probablyone of the most lavish
(04:36):
celebrations I have ever had,and I remember at first being
like I don't know what to dowith this, and then I'm like, oh
honey, roll with it, it wasactually fun.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh well, I'm sure it was, and it's so often.
You're the one who's doing that, you're the one throwing the
party for others, you're the onesending the boxes.
I know because I get them.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Isn't that true for all of us?
I mean, I think it's probably afair statement for all of us
especially us women.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, but but you do excel.
You excel at care packages andremembering people's important
milestones, and so I'm so gladto hear that that they did that,
because you deserve every everybit of it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Well, thank you, it was quite lovely and unexpected.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'sawesome.
What's been up with your week?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
What has been up with my week?
Not a lot.
Today this is Saturday whenwe're recording I was back on
campus for Sigma Tau Deltainduction ceremony.
It's the English Honor Society,the local chapter, that had
their induction ceremony.
One of my colleagues organizedit and so I just got to show up.
(06:01):
And so I just got to show up.
You have to have a GPA of 3.5and be in, be either a junior or
senior English major to be inthis and then you can present at
conferences and you're eligiblefor scholarships and you know
kind of professional perks thatgo with it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Wait, do you have to pay to be part of it?
Do I get letters?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
for this.
Well, there is a National HonorSociety that I kind of think
everybody gets invited to.
I'm not sure what's going onwith it.
I kind of think it might be aracket, maybe not, I just have a
hunch, but probably not,because this is.
It's all administered throughlocal English departments, and
(06:50):
so I think there are fees forgetting involved.
I think often Englishdepartments will cover that.
But you know, every field hastheir student organization, and
this is the one in English.
So it's always fun to go seeall the cool things that
students are doing, andespecially the ones who are
graduating, you know, the onesthat you know are going on to
(07:11):
all kinds of great things.
So, as we are heading into thelast weeks of the semester, it's
just going to be one event likethis after another marking the
time.
So it's fun and it also is kindof sad.
We were also recognizing one ofmy colleagues who is retiring.
After teaching for 42 yearshe's.
(07:34):
He has essentially been theEnglish program here, so I don't
know how we've we've beentrying to function without him.
He hasn't been as involved inthe day to day running of, like
you know, our meetings and thatkind of thing this year.
But we're gonna, we're gonnatry to keep keep going without
him anyway.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, I have a feeling he believes your
department is in good hands,mostly thanks to your capable,
so I'm sure you've got amazingcolleagues as well.
But oh, I do, I do, but I'msure you have it covered just
fine.
So wait though.
(08:13):
How does this work If he wasthe head and he's leaving like,
does that set you or somebodyelse up for promotion?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, every institution is different.
At ours, the chair of theprogram is it's pretty much just
like a position where itcertainly doesn't have any power
.
It has.
You have some responsibility nopower to organize meetings, to
make sure that the right coursesare being offered this semester
(08:43):
and next semester, you know, toget those schedules all set,
and so it's a herding cats kindof job, and most of the time he
had it it came with a courserelease.
That is changing now because ofsome of the structural changes
that are being made, and so nowwhat we're doing is we're
divvying up a lot of hisresponsibilities.
Unfortunately, we haven't beenable to hire someone new, which
(09:05):
has been the case for a lot ofhumanities positions, and so the
expectation is that his workwill get spread out among the
rest of us who are still there,and we'll just absorb it.
So I don't know we've beendoing that for the last, how
many folks who've left, and Idon't know how long we can keep
doing it.
To be honest, we'll see.
(09:25):
We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Gosh, that's actually quite frightening, both as a
college professor, so that hasto be frightening for you, but
it's also frightening to thinkof, as a student, those
expectations and those demandsbeing put on your own professor.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right, well, and also the opportunities that are
going to be gone now.
So, for example, one of thestrengths of our program has
been that we have a fictionwriter, a creative nonfiction
writer and a poet, and so formost schools of our size that's
impressive to have that kind ofa writing program.
And so the hope is I mean thereare others who could step in
(10:29):
and offer classes, but there'sprobably not going to be room on
the schedule for us once weteach the classes that we do
have specializations in.
So what that means now is thatone of our journals have
essentially gone away justbecause there's not been enough
faculty to keep them going.
Keep both of them going.
There's also been well, and nowhe won't be teaching classes on
(10:54):
creative nonfiction.
His classes are verynature-based and his students
are writing very much about theMidwest landscape he's the book
he just published is all about.
He's gone around differentMidwestern states 12 Midwestern
states and talked about thegeography and written about it.
You know, in this creative way.
(11:15):
It's just beautiful, beautifulnature writing.
And so students at our collegenow won't have the option of
taking a creative nonfictionclass, and if you're outside of
English, I mean, I know there'soften a perception like, well,
what's the difference betweenliterature and creative writing?
We get a lot of messages like,well, why not, you know, just
(11:37):
collapse it into one major.
But I think the important thingis what the experience of being
in, say, a creative nonfictionclass gives a student, even if
they're not an English major,even if they're not going to be
a professional writer.
How many of us have a dream ofwriting a book one day?
And something like a creativenonfiction class is going to
(12:01):
give so much opportunity forpersonal fulfillment and also
develop professional writingskills too.
So, aside from his contributionto the English major, it's a
contribution to other parts ofcampus as well, and creating
nonfiction is one of thosethings that I would encourage
anyone, regardless of major, toconsider taking, just because of
(12:24):
what that can do for youpersonally to have that
opportunity to explore and totell your own story in a really
powerful way where people willmake their money.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It's a more art-based way of writing and of exploring
, and of being.
It seems that capitalism wouldjust be fine if we'd get rid of
all of that nonsense.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Uh-huh, yeah yeah.
Sometime we should talk aboutthe history of the liberal arts.
And, on the other hand, it'ssuch a short sighted way of
(13:31):
seeing the stereotypes and,unfortunately, colleges have
done a horrible, horrible jobaddressing those misconceptions
and so it's very complicated.
I have lots of big feelings andI know that's not what we're
going to be talking about today,but we should definitely have a
conversation sometime.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, let's put it on the list, because I think I
could probably have some bigfeelings about that.
But while we're on the subjectof another big feeling, in our
last podcast, when I introducedmy friend Gerald Mast, I said he
teaches communications atBluffton College.
My dear husband pointed outthat it is Bluffton University
(14:10):
and this is very important tosome people.
Now, now, I doubt Gerald Masswould really care, but for those
of you or those of us who docare, he teaches communications
at Bluffton University and Iguess that means I have a kid
(14:32):
graduating from university, so Ishould care.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I mean it doesn't make a difference in the degree,
but you know, maybe it looksbetter on their certificate.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah well, my husband said that apparently it matters
to some people because I waslike sure thing, and he's like,
oh, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
No, and explaining the difference is is messy,
messy, messy.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, I think he tried and I think I've maybe
tuned out about three minutesand yeah, that's a good thing to
go to wikipedia for to uh, tofind the explanation what the
difference is.
Well, university sounds muchmore european, so you know oh
well, and it's, it's larger.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
that's the idea is that it's larger.
It it's just a largerinstitution, but it does the
same thing.
It's just bigger and therefore,maybe, maybe, maybe better,
yeah, depending on who you ask.
So just different, I would say.
But thank you for thatclarification.
You sent me a podcast this weekthat I found really interesting
(15:49):
, and it turned out they weretalking about something you
wanted to hear more about.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, so everyone should have someone like you in
your in their lives.
Whenever I see things like this, I'm always like I know nothing
about this.
What do you know?
But I had.
I was interested in the podcastbecause another friend had
(16:14):
mentioned something to mepreviously, just sort of aware
that it was out there, and thatwas the only reason I paid
attention to it when thisparticular podcast came across
my feed.
But the podcast talked aboutCLEP tests.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And so I don't know what is it so?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
the official name is the College Level Examination
Program Really creative titleand then the acronym is CLEP.
Clep, as it's described ontheir website.
It's a program that's going tohelp you.
Clep helps you receive collegecredit for what you already know
, for a fraction of the cost ofa college course, and these are
(17:03):
college credits that arerecognized at nearly 3,000
colleges and universities acrossthe US.
So it's a program that's beenaround since 1968.
It well established and widelyrecognized, but doesn't have a
great PR department, apparently.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Well, I wondered about that, Because why have I
never heard of it before?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I was looking back at our notes and I saw we had it
mentioned at one point and Iguess I just thought we just
never talked about it beyondthat and I didn't realize that
you didn't know.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
But to be fair, to be fair, my memory is a little bit
like a squirrel, Like peoplewho are like, yeah, I read this
book by this author and theysaid this.
That just makes my brain like Idon't know whether to be
impressed or whether to be likefreaked out, Because I remember
(18:05):
stuff I've read, but oh honey,I'm not going to remember your
name.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, oh, I understand, and I mean it's an
acronym Like we come across.
How many acronyms?
If you don't have, it has nomeaning for you, then of course
it's only normal not to not toremember it.
My hunch is that the reason youhaven't heard of it is because
no one is getting rich off of it, and so that's true.
Yeah, and it essentially isoffering the kind of thing that
(18:33):
an AP course advanced placementcourse offers in high schools,
except that there's not a classassociated with it and it costs
way less.
Yeah, but it doesn't have theinfrastructure of AP to promote
it right.
You've got AP in every highschool and CLEP is really
(18:53):
designed for more adult learners, as the tagline says, helps you
receive college credit for whatyou already know, and so AP is
more directed at high schoollevel students.
But this is something Iremember hearing about when I
was getting started with collegeand I took I believe I took
(19:14):
three CLEP tests.
There was another class I wasable to test out of and I ended
up with 14 credit hours.
So that was like a semester'sworth of classes that I didn't
take, which I had started as apart-time student and that
allowed me to catch up and stillgraduate in four years.
(19:36):
So it was really helpful.
But the thing is, even when Iwas taking it, I kind of
regretted missing out on theexperience of being in those
classes, like, I think the one Idid.
I think I did psychology andAmerican history and I forget
(19:57):
what the third one was, andthose are classes I would have
enjoyed just taking, justbecause I it would have been
interesting, but I wanted to getthe credits done more than I
wanted that.
So I think that's one of thereasons why I don't talk about
it a lot is because I hate tosee people miss out on what I
(20:17):
think is the best part ofcollege.
So but but when we're talkingabout adult learners, we're
talking about non-traditionalstudents, first gen students.
We all come from such a rangeof situations and I don't think
it's a good idea to let theperfect be the enemy of the good
.
And so I can, you know, I canabsolutely see why this would be
(20:41):
a good option for some people.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Another point is 14 credit hours probably saved you
well in today's world would saveyou a couple thousand dollars
too.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh, yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I mean, that's, that's not small?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, no, it's not.
In fact, the podcast you sentme was really exciting because
it's talking about how you canessentially do a whole year of
college for free with CLEP Wow.
So when I took my CLEP exams, Isomehow got a hold of first
year college textbooks for thosecourses.
(21:19):
I remember I had a mentor andfriend Well, let's see what
she's a mentor and she was anemployer and now she's a friend.
It was a psychology professorwho went through the textbook
with me and said, okay, thesechapters, this chapter, this
chapter, this is probably goingto be on the test, you know, and
so I studied for it just byreading through a college
(21:41):
textbook.
So when you are internallymotivated, maybe you're someone
who's who does a lot of reading,that's probably the kind of
person who'd be good fit forthis.
And especially someone whomaybe is geographically limited,
like they can't just get up andmove across the country to go
to college, or they really needto do something online and
(22:06):
that's really their only option,or they don't have many options
, or if it's someone who iswanting a taste of college level
study before making a majorinvestment of time and money and
actually enrolling in college.
If they're, you know wonderingwhat is what is this really
about?
You know, is this a good fitfor me?
(22:26):
If they're wanting to know whatit's like, you know what kinds
of things they would be studyingin a college class, a CLEP test
might be a good way to get asense of what they're in for.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And on that note, I can see how it would be
validating to be able to testout of particular classes.
If you're questioning whetheror not you have the skills to go
Exactly, exactly, and it's like, if you can test out of one or
two classes, it's like, well, ifI can test out of it, certainly
(23:00):
I'm smart enough to figure itout.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Exactly, Exactly.
And if you're concerned thatyou might need to do remedial
classes or anything like that,then yes, it can give you a
sense of where you are.
So I think it's definitelysomething to look into early in
someone's college career,because these are mostly general
education courses and they'reprobably not going to count as
(23:26):
courses in a major, but moreyour general education courses,
which are, you know, often thefocus of the first couple of
years.
Once you're in your senior year, that's probably not gonna it
probably won't do you much good.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
So it wouldn't test you out of electives, correct,
okay?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And hopefully a person is going to have elective
courses that they want to take.
You know that.
You know that are reallyfocused on their major, focused
on their particular interest andthis will make you cringe.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I talked to my guide counselor and I'm like you
seriously, do not have onewriting class I can sign up for.
And she's like no.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, that makes me so sad,
that makes me so sad.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And I think what I'm going to do is do what I did
last semester was figured outwhat class I wanted, and then
just I emailed the professor andsaid hey, they tell me I can't
get into your class, but Ireally like to take it.
Can you work me in?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Tell them.
You're telling me you're asenior, tell me you're about to
graduate and that you've alwayswanted to take this class and
this is your last chance, andthat you've always wanted to
take this class and this is yourlast chance.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And you know what the funny thing is?
Somehow it came up in an emailconversation and I said oh, I
just emailed the professor andasked and he got me in she would
not respond to any more emailsfrom me.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Wait, who was this?
Your advisor?
Oh, your advisor.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
My advisor.
Sorry Sorry, my advisor.
Yes, I said the wrong.
Yes, yeah, yeah, she won'treply to any more emails from me
.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
That's funny.
That's that's do you know howmany?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
students she works with.
Oh, oh, she has way too manystudents.
I will be the first to.
I mean, every time I talk toher, we first start off with a
conversation about how manycases she has.
Yeah, and I don't doubt she'soverworked.
I'm probably somewhere close toher age, closer to her age than
(25:33):
the other students.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, and I hear about it all the time and I have
no doubt that it is the case.
However, I'm your student.
I don't care, I don't care, Idon't care.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
That doesn't make a difference that doesn't make a
difference.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But you're absolutely right, I am sure she is way
overworked.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
That shouldn't upset her.
If anything, that should tellher that you are very capable of
looking after yourself you arevery capable of looking after
yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I think it upset her because she told me I couldn't
get in and she didn't tell methat I couldn't get into.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I asked her why I wasn't in because she apparently
has to sign me up and and I waslike asking the professor is
not that's that's, that's atotally normal thing, that's not
really that's a totally normalthing, that's not really, that's
not.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I mean they can say no, I just got the sense that
she felt like I went above her.
That maybe I mean she told meno, she told me no and that
wasn't good enough for me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, I don't care, that was the sense I got.
That's totally legit to emailthe professor.
Huh, I'm not saying she didn'tget, but heard about it, but
that's really her problem if shedid.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I wasn't feeling bad about it.
I was like, honey, you don'tseem to be able to get me
anything I need.
Exactly, I can fight my ownbattle here, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Exactly 100%.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So let's say that I am just starting to think that,
you know, maybe I should starttaking a couple of college
classes and I am curious if Icould test out of any of these
classes.
Where do I go or how do I findout more information?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Okay.
So this is where I got reallyexcited about that podcast you
sent me, because that's a goodplace to go and we'll link it in
the show notes.
It's your College Bound Kid isthe name of the podcast, and
it's primarily directed atparents of college bound kids
(27:44):
and they're also very muchfocused on getting into elite
schools, which I feel likethat's not really our focus.
But they interviewed someonefrom Modern States, which is a
nonprofit organization thatoffers free courses to prepare
for CLEP tests, and you enrollin them and once you've
(28:10):
successfully completed a course,then they give you a voucher
and you take that to a CLEPtesting site and then that
covers the cost of the CLEP test.
And I'm not sure what CLEP testcosts.
It's under $100.
I think it's 75.
That sounds right.
So which $75 to test out of acollege course is a really good
(28:37):
deal, it's a super good deal.
Out of a college course is areally good deal.
It's a super good deal.
This is even better because youget a voucher to cover that
cost.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
That's amazing, isn't it?
So like it makes me sad that Idid not somehow figure this out.
And don't blame yourself, don'teven go there.
No, no, no, don't go there.
That's amazing.
I'm so happy that this isavailable.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right, right, I just I want to be clear.
I preemptively grieve for allthe people that I know who would
absorb those classes like asponge, who would love the kinds
of discussions that arepossible in a course.
You know you're in a philosophycourse right now.
(29:23):
I have so many memories fromthe philosophy course I took in
undergrad.
It was the only philosophycourse I ever took, but that was
so helpful in makingconnections with things that I
was learning in other classesand we were able to have
conversations, and thatexperience is what is missing
(29:44):
from online education.
But but again, in the spirit ofthe perfect not being the enemy
of the good, if this helpssomeone get into college, if
this helps open doors, then Ithink it's a great option.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And you know, to be fair, I hear what you're saying
Because I think the beauty insome of these classes is it
helps you think differentlyabout the world, but even
certain subjects.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And even though you disagree, or you might disagree
with some of the conversations,you have to kind of figure out
why you disagree.
So there's that criticalthinking that's happening that I
agree with you is valuable Atthe same time.
If you can graduate in sixyears instead of eight years,
(30:40):
that could really motivate me.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And if you do a handful of themand you go, oh wow, I'm good at
this, I can do this, or maybenot even I'm good at this, but I
can do this, I can figure thisout Then that's really important
too.
So I can imagine a lot ofdifferent scenarios where this
would be a really good option.
(31:04):
I would just hate if anyonelistened to us talk about this
and would think this is a go-tosubstitute for college, say, a
traditional age student who isbeing pressured to shortchange
their education for somebodyelse's benefit.
In a situation like that,that's just unfair to the
student.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And again, I think what this comes back to in a lot
of ways is your own autonomy.
Like the student, really shouldbe able to weigh the pros and
cons and decide if that isactually the path they wish to
take Right.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
So, in other words, let's not put pressure on other
people to do this.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Thank, you Exactly.
It's an option, it's not theonly option.
So I think going to the CLEPwebsite, which we'll link in the
show notes, is also a goodplace to go to get some
information about this.
We'll link to the Modern Stateswebsite and that's the
(32:07):
organization that offers theprep courses and then this is
something you can also ask.
This is something you can askyour admissions officer about,
or Probably there's a testingsite.
I know I took it at a testingoffice of some kind at my
undergrad institution.
(32:27):
It's like I don't remember.
I don't remember the details,but you just ask around until
someone tells you.
Also, I believe if you go onthe Modern States site they list
all the, or maybe it's on theCLEP website, but somewhere you
can go online and you can see alist of all the institutions
(32:48):
that accept CLEP tests.
And I just want to give a wordof caution, because I looked for
the institution where I teachand it said that my institution
does not accept CLEP tests andthen I did a search for the name
of the institution and CLEPtest and it came up on our
website.
We do, but it's something likeemail us to find out which ones
(33:12):
we accept for credit.
So just because a school is noton that list of 2,900
institutions doesn't mean thatthey don't.
It's worth asking about, anddon't take the first no for an
answer.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
The other thing that I think is important to point
out here is so when you, as anadult student, enroll in college
, there is some testing that thecollege will do automatically.
Particularly for me, they didEnglish and math just to make
sure you were at some level.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
That you were prepared, that because it's not
going to do you any favors to beput into a class if you're not
prepared for it, and then you'regoing to have that F on your
permanent record, right.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Yeah, but I think I thought what they were testing
me for was this oh yes, don'tlet the two confuse you.
They're two separate things.
The testing the college isgoing to require is a placement
testing of sorts just to makesure that you are prepared.
(34:22):
Sorts, just to make sure thatyou are prepared, and I guess I
assumed that that was the end ofthe testing options.
I'm guessing your averagecollege isn't going to offer
information about this.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Again, nobody's getting rich off of this and I
took mine during the summer.
I think you know betweensemesters, so you don't have to
do it before you get to college.
You can do it while you're incollege if you work it out
between semesters.
But, yes, yes, and you know,and isn't that?
(34:59):
Isn't that life it's like withso many things we look back and
we don't know what we don't knowuntil we have hindsight.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
At the same time, I do think it works out.
And you know, it's easy for meto sit here when I'm just sick
and tired of being in collegeand be like, oh my word, this
would have been a game changer.
Who knows that?
It would have what if I hadn'tdone so well?
And it would have convinced methat I'm not smart enough to do
(35:30):
it.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
So I think it's easy to imagine that maybe things
would have turned outdifferently, instead of just
appreciating the way it did turnout and where you're at.
And I think there's room forboth, but I think I tend to go
down the first path more quicklythan just offering an
(35:56):
acceptance and appreciation forwhere I'm at.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, it's easy to imagine that the alternative was
the right way.
We were talking about thatrecently Right, it's easy to
think that that other, the pathnot taken, was the one without
any problems.
Right, the one with smoothsailing.
And the reality is that that'snot a thing.
And can I tie this back to whatwe're talking about?
(36:21):
At the very beginning, you knowthe idea of turning 50 before
you graduate from college, andwithout minimizing the harm of
educational neglect, which is areal thing and hugely
problematic, what's a beautifulthing is the tenacity and
courage you had to fight throughthat, to fight through those
(36:44):
barriers and to pursue the lifeyou wanted.
And the degree you'll graduatewith is going to be a much
richer and seasoned degree thanall the 21-year-olds who went
straight from high school, andyou experienced college
(37:04):
differently than they did.
The learning that you broughtto it, the experience you
brought to it, made it a muchricher experience for you.
That makes it a thing of beautyin its own right, and that's
like the most understated thingI've ever said.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
That's one of the kindest things I think you've
ever said.
I mean, no, that doesn't soundright either.
It is an extremely kind thingto say and, I think, a very true
thing that I think sometimes weoften forget about in the
middle of the fight and I thinkmaybe no matter how we get there
(37:49):
, we should be proud ofourselves.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Exactly, exactly, and we can be proud of our
accomplishments without kind ofdoing the silver lining thing
that minimizes the harm thatexists alongside it, right, and
the path of joy is appreciatingwhat is Right.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Sometimes I think it's so easy to have this false
positive where you have to Toxicpositivity.
Yes, yes, yes.
Where you have to make itpositive, yes, and I don't think
that's good either.
That's not good either.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
And that's what.
I'm trying not to do.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Right.
I don't think either one of usis suggesting that Right.
At the same time, I think it iseasy to doubt ourselves Right
and to to um, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
is it about this thing we come back to again and
again, where it's about holdingboth things in at once?
You know, it's not about sayingwas this a good thing or a bad
thing, but it's like here arethe good things and here are the
unfortunate things and I thinkabout honoring the process too.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, yeah like there's certain, there's a
certain richness and a certainacceptance.
Maybe that comes in honoringthe process for what it was
Right, right, and it took melonger than I hoped.
It took me way longer than Ihoped, and I can come up with
(39:23):
1000 reasons it did, but those1000 reasons aren't necessarily
all bad.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And it was my process .
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
And I don't think it's a matter of it being the
perfect process or the idealprocess, even it was just the
process, yeah.
And I think learning toappreciate and respect.
It has been good for me,because if you don't, you're
going to also.
I will drown in the sea ofresentment, and that's not a fun
(39:57):
place to be.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
No one.
No one wants to live withsomeone who's resentful.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Or to be that person it's miserable, or to be that
person Exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
It's miserable.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, Exactly, I agree, and I think it's great
when we can see the range ofexperiences and range of paths
and see them for the successesthey are, without hiding the
painful parts and acknowledgingit all is what I mean.
That's without hiding thepainful parts and acknowledging
it all is what I mean.
That's really where the wonderis right.
I mean, that's where the wowcomes in, when you realize not
(40:33):
only what you accomplished, butwhat it was in the face of Right
.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
And I think 99.9% of our listeners can identify with
this as well.
You know so much of life.
When it comes down to it, it'sjust simply about figuring it
out.
Most of us don't have a lot ofit handed to us, Otherwise we're
(40:57):
not listening to this podcast,Right?
Most of us have had to figureit out.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
And sometimes you figure it out a little bit wrong
, sometimes you figure it out alittle shady, and sometimes it's
like man, I'm the boss of todayand it's all okay, it is all
good, and at the end of the day,I think we can give ourselves
credit because we're justfiguring it out, and that's good
(41:26):
enough too.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
What are your thoughts about college and
recovery from high demandreligion?
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences and we
want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atUncoveredbeyond at gmailcom.
That's uncoveredlifebeyond atgmailcom.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.
Stay brave, stay bold Whileyou're there.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an
episode.
Until next time, stay brave,stay bold, stay awkward.
This is.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Rebecca, and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we've questionedour faith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path Along the
way, we've uncovered a fewinsights we want to share with
fellow travelers.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
We want to talk about the questions we didn't know
who to ask and the options wedidn't know we had.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up, we are here to cheeryou on and assure you that the
best is yet to come.
Welcome to Uncovered LifeBeyond.
Hello everyone, Welcome back toUncovered Life Beyond.
(01:09):
This is Naomi.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
And this is Rebecca, so here we are, we are.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's been a big week for you.
You've had a milestone birthday.
Oh, the big five.
Happy birthday.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
What an accomplishment.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Do you ever wonder, like how?
Years from 40.
And that blew my mind 14 yearsfrom 40.
(01:56):
And our mind is just going.
And we are just like we blewway past that birthday a long
time ago.
You know, it's been reallyinteresting for me, because I go
between both being gratefulthat I'm here, but then also
angry that I'm here, yeah, andfinally I decided it's okay if
(02:19):
both are true.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I was doing everything I could to make sure
I'm graduated by the time I'm 50.
And I'm not, and I tell myselfit's okay, in the grand scheme
of life it really doesn't matter.
But for some reason it doeskind of matter, and so I've been
trying to figure out why.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, one thing that definitely matters is the
unfairness that graduatingsooner wasn't an option for you.
There's no shame in graduatingafter you're 50, but it's
infuriating to know that youcould have graduated so much
sooner, but that roadblocks wereput up to block you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, and like, sometimes I sit in classes with
these kids and you know, when Istarted out there was maybe 20
years between us.
Now there's almost 30 yearsbetween us and, dude, like some
of the comments, I'm just likeoh my god, grow up.
Right like some of the comments, I'm just like, oh my god, grow
(03:30):
up right, yeah, but but atleast I'm almost finished and
I'm not just starting so that'sa good thing too and you know
what?
I have amazing friends andfamily and people have been so
kind.
Um, I got a lovely box from you.
I, my sister, sent me somethingreally fun.
Oh my goodness.
The girls from work were sokind, so there's a restaurant
(03:52):
right across the street fromwhere I work and they were like,
hey, we should meet forbreakfast before work next
Saturday.
And I'm like, yeah, why haven'twe been doing this all along?
Let's do it it.
So I got there and I wasrunning late and oh, they had
champagne and gifts and oh,there was like a tiara for me to
(04:15):
wear and it said 15 fabulous.
And they had happy birthdaylittle crown thingies.
And then we get back to thewinery and they had balloons up
and ribbons up and all the funthings, I know, I know right.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Like I think it was probablyone of the most lavish
(04:36):
celebrations I have ever had,and I remember at first being
like I don't know what to dowith this, and then I'm like, oh
honey, roll with it, it wasactually fun.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh well, I'm sure it was, and it's so often.
You're the one who's doing that, you're the one throwing the
party for others, you're the onesending the boxes.
I know because I get them.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Isn't that true for all of us?
I mean, I think it's probably afair statement for all of us
especially us women.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, but but you do excel.
You excel at care packages andremembering people's important
milestones, and so I'm so gladto hear that that they did that,
because you deserve every everybit of it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Well, thank you, it was quite lovely and unexpected.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'sawesome.
What's been up with your week?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
What has been up with my week?
Not a lot.
Today this is Saturday whenwe're recording I was back on
campus for Sigma Tau Deltainduction ceremony.
It's the English Honor Society,the local chapter, that had
their induction ceremony.
One of my colleagues organizedit and so I just got to show up.
(06:01):
And so I just got to show up.
You have to have a GPA of 3.5and be in, be either a junior or
senior English major to be inthis and then you can present at
conferences and you're eligiblefor scholarships and you know
kind of professional perks thatgo with it.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Wait, do you have to pay to be part of it?
Do I get letters?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
for this.
Well, there is a National HonorSociety that I kind of think
everybody gets invited to.
I'm not sure what's going onwith it.
I kind of think it might be aracket, maybe not, I just have a
hunch, but probably not,because this is.
It's all administered throughlocal English departments, and
(06:50):
so I think there are fees forgetting involved.
I think often Englishdepartments will cover that.
But you know, every field hastheir student organization, and
this is the one in English.
So it's always fun to go seeall the cool things that
students are doing, andespecially the ones who are
graduating, you know, the onesthat you know are going on to
(07:11):
all kinds of great things.
So, as we are heading into thelast weeks of the semester, it's
just going to be one event likethis after another marking the
time.
So it's fun and it also is kindof sad.
We were also recognizing one ofmy colleagues who is retiring.
After teaching for 42 yearshe's.
(07:34):
He has essentially been theEnglish program here, so I don't
know how we've we've beentrying to function without him.
He hasn't been as involved inthe day to day running of, like
you know, our meetings and thatkind of thing this year.
But we're gonna, we're gonnatry to keep keep going without
him anyway.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, I have a feeling he believes your
department is in good hands,mostly thanks to your capable,
so I'm sure you've got amazingcolleagues as well.
But oh, I do, I do, but I'msure you have it covered just
fine.
So wait though.
(08:13):
How does this work If he wasthe head and he's leaving like,
does that set you or somebodyelse up for promotion?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, every institution is different.
At ours, the chair of theprogram is it's pretty much just
like a position where itcertainly doesn't have any power
.
It has.
You have some responsibility nopower to organize meetings, to
make sure that the right coursesare being offered this semester
(08:43):
and next semester, you know, toget those schedules all set,
and so it's a herding cats kindof job, and most of the time he
had it it came with a courserelease.
That is changing now because ofsome of the structural changes
that are being made, and so nowwhat we're doing is we're
divvying up a lot of hisresponsibilities.
Unfortunately, we haven't beenable to hire someone new, which
(09:05):
has been the case for a lot ofhumanities positions, and so the
expectation is that his workwill get spread out among the
rest of us who are still there,and we'll just absorb it.
So I don't know we've beendoing that for the last, how
many folks who've left, and Idon't know how long we can keep
doing it.
To be honest, we'll see.
(09:25):
We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Gosh, that's actually quite frightening, both as a
college professor, so that hasto be frightening for you, but
it's also frightening to thinkof, as a student, those
expectations and those demandsbeing put on your own professor.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right, well, and also the opportunities that are
going to be gone now.
So, for example, one of thestrengths of our program has
been that we have a fictionwriter, a creative nonfiction
writer and a poet, and so formost schools of our size that's
impressive to have that kind ofa writing program.
And so the hope is I mean thereare others who could step in
(10:29):
and offer classes, but there'sprobably not going to be room on
the schedule for us once weteach the classes that we do
have specializations in.
So what that means now is thatone of our journals have
essentially gone away justbecause there's not been enough
faculty to keep them going.
Keep both of them going.
There's also been well, and nowhe won't be teaching classes on
(10:54):
creative nonfiction.
His classes are verynature-based and his students
are writing very much about theMidwest landscape he's the book
he just published is all about.
He's gone around differentMidwestern states 12 Midwestern
states and talked about thegeography and written about it.
You know, in this creative way.
(11:15):
It's just beautiful, beautifulnature writing.
And so students at our collegenow won't have the option of
taking a creative nonfictionclass, and if you're outside of
English, I mean, I know there'soften a perception like, well,
what's the difference betweenliterature and creative writing?
We get a lot of messages like,well, why not, you know, just
(11:37):
collapse it into one major.
But I think the important thingis what the experience of being
in, say, a creative nonfictionclass gives a student, even if
they're not an English major,even if they're not going to be
a professional writer.
How many of us have a dream ofwriting a book one day?
And something like a creativenonfiction class is going to
(12:01):
give so much opportunity forpersonal fulfillment and also
develop professional writingskills too.
So, aside from his contributionto the English major, it's a
contribution to other parts ofcampus as well, and creating
nonfiction is one of thosethings that I would encourage
anyone, regardless of major, toconsider taking, just because of
(12:24):
what that can do for youpersonally to have that
opportunity to explore and totell your own story in a really
powerful way where people willmake their money.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
It's a more art-based way of writing and of exploring
, and of being.
It seems that capitalism wouldjust be fine if we'd get rid of
all of that nonsense.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Uh-huh, yeah yeah.
Sometime we should talk aboutthe history of the liberal arts.
And, on the other hand, it'ssuch a short sighted way of
(13:31):
seeing the stereotypes and,unfortunately, colleges have
done a horrible, horrible jobaddressing those misconceptions
and so it's very complicated.
I have lots of big feelings andI know that's not what we're
going to be talking about today,but we should definitely have a
conversation sometime.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, let's put it on the list, because I think I
could probably have some bigfeelings about that.
But while we're on the subjectof another big feeling, in our
last podcast, when I introducedmy friend Gerald Mast, I said he
teaches communications atBluffton College.
My dear husband pointed outthat it is Bluffton University
(14:10):
and this is very important tosome people.
Now, now, I doubt Gerald Masswould really care, but for those
of you or those of us who docare, he teaches communications
at Bluffton University and Iguess that means I have a kid
(14:32):
graduating from university, so Ishould care.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I mean it doesn't make a difference in the degree,
but you know, maybe it looksbetter on their certificate.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah well, my husband said that apparently it matters
to some people because I waslike sure thing, and he's like,
oh, but it's not.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
No, and explaining the difference is is messy,
messy, messy.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, I think he tried and I think I've maybe
tuned out about three minutesand yeah, that's a good thing to
go to wikipedia for to uh, tofind the explanation what the
difference is.
Well, university sounds muchmore european, so you know oh
well, and it's, it's larger.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
that's the idea is that it's larger.
It it's just a largerinstitution, but it does the
same thing.
It's just bigger and therefore,maybe, maybe, maybe better,
yeah, depending on who you ask.
So just different, I would say.
But thank you for thatclarification.
You sent me a podcast this weekthat I found really interesting
(15:49):
, and it turned out they weretalking about something you
wanted to hear more about.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, so everyone should have someone like you in
your in their lives.
Whenever I see things like this, I'm always like I know nothing
about this.
What do you know?
But I had.
I was interested in the podcastbecause another friend had
(16:14):
mentioned something to mepreviously, just sort of aware
that it was out there, and thatwas the only reason I paid
attention to it when thisparticular podcast came across
my feed.
But the podcast talked aboutCLEP tests.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
And so I don't know what is it so?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
the official name is the College Level Examination
Program Really creative titleand then the acronym is CLEP.
Clep, as it's described ontheir website.
It's a program that's going tohelp you.
Clep helps you receive collegecredit for what you already know
, for a fraction of the cost ofa college course, and these are
(17:03):
college credits that arerecognized at nearly 3,000
colleges and universities acrossthe US.
So it's a program that's beenaround since 1968.
It well established and widelyrecognized, but doesn't have a
great PR department, apparently.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Well, I wondered about that, Because why have I
never heard of it before?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I was looking back at our notes and I saw we had it
mentioned at one point and Iguess I just thought we just
never talked about it beyondthat and I didn't realize that
you didn't know.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
But to be fair, to be fair, my memory is a little bit
like a squirrel, Like peoplewho are like, yeah, I read this
book by this author and theysaid this.
That just makes my brain like Idon't know whether to be
impressed or whether to be likefreaked out, Because I remember
(18:05):
stuff I've read, but oh honey,I'm not going to remember your
name.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, oh, I understand, and I mean it's an
acronym Like we come across.
How many acronyms?
If you don't have, it has nomeaning for you, then of course
it's only normal not to not toremember it.
My hunch is that the reason youhaven't heard of it is because
no one is getting rich off of it, and so that's true.
Yeah, and it essentially isoffering the kind of thing that
(18:33):
an AP course advanced placementcourse offers in high schools,
except that there's not a classassociated with it and it costs
way less.
Yeah, but it doesn't have theinfrastructure of AP to promote
it right.
You've got AP in every highschool and CLEP is really
(18:53):
designed for more adult learners, as the tagline says, helps you
receive college credit for whatyou already know, and so AP is
more directed at high schoollevel students.
But this is something Iremember hearing about when I
was getting started with collegeand I took I believe I took
(19:14):
three CLEP tests.
There was another class I wasable to test out of and I ended
up with 14 credit hours.
So that was like a semester'sworth of classes that I didn't
take, which I had started as apart-time student and that
allowed me to catch up and stillgraduate in four years.
(19:36):
So it was really helpful.
But the thing is, even when Iwas taking it, I kind of
regretted missing out on theexperience of being in those
classes, like, I think the one Idid.
I think I did psychology andAmerican history and I forget
(19:57):
what the third one was, andthose are classes I would have
enjoyed just taking, justbecause I it would have been
interesting, but I wanted to getthe credits done more than I
wanted that.
So I think that's one of thereasons why I don't talk about
it a lot is because I hate tosee people miss out on what I
(20:17):
think is the best part ofcollege.
So but but when we're talkingabout adult learners, we're
talking about non-traditionalstudents, first gen students.
We all come from such a rangeof situations and I don't think
it's a good idea to let theperfect be the enemy of the good
.
And so I can, you know, I canabsolutely see why this would be
(20:41):
a good option for some people.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Another point is 14 credit hours probably saved you
well in today's world would saveyou a couple thousand dollars
too.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh, yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I mean, that's, that's not small?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, no, it's not.
In fact, the podcast you sentme was really exciting because
it's talking about how you canessentially do a whole year of
college for free with CLEP Wow.
So when I took my CLEP exams, Isomehow got a hold of first
year college textbooks for thosecourses.
(21:19):
I remember I had a mentor andfriend Well, let's see what
she's a mentor and she was anemployer and now she's a friend.
It was a psychology professorwho went through the textbook
with me and said, okay, thesechapters, this chapter, this
chapter, this is probably goingto be on the test, you know, and
so I studied for it just byreading through a college
(21:41):
textbook.
So when you are internallymotivated, maybe you're someone
who's who does a lot of reading,that's probably the kind of
person who'd be good fit forthis.
And especially someone whomaybe is geographically limited,
like they can't just get up andmove across the country to go
to college, or they really needto do something online and
(22:06):
that's really their only option,or they don't have many options
, or if it's someone who iswanting a taste of college level
study before making a majorinvestment of time and money and
actually enrolling in college.
If they're, you know wonderingwhat is what is this really
about?
You know, is this a good fitfor me?
(22:26):
If they're wanting to know whatit's like, you know what kinds
of things they would be studyingin a college class, a CLEP test
might be a good way to get asense of what they're in for.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And on that note, I can see how it would be
validating to be able to testout of particular classes.
If you're questioning whetheror not you have the skills to go
Exactly, exactly, and it's like, if you can test out of one or
two classes, it's like, well, ifI can test out of it, certainly
(23:00):
I'm smart enough to figure itout.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Exactly, Exactly.
And if you're concerned thatyou might need to do remedial
classes or anything like that,then yes, it can give you a
sense of where you are.
So I think it's definitelysomething to look into early in
someone's college career,because these are mostly general
education courses and they'reprobably not going to count as
(23:26):
courses in a major, but moreyour general education courses,
which are, you know, often thefocus of the first couple of
years.
Once you're in your senior year, that's probably not gonna it
probably won't do you much good.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
So it wouldn't test you out of electives, correct,
okay?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And hopefully a person is going to have elective
courses that they want to take.
You know that.
You know that are reallyfocused on their major, focused
on their particular interest andthis will make you cringe.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
I talked to my guide counselor and I'm like you
seriously, do not have onewriting class I can sign up for.
And she's like no.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, that makes me so sad,
that makes me so sad.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
And I think what I'm going to do is do what I did
last semester was figured outwhat class I wanted, and then
just I emailed the professor andsaid hey, they tell me I can't
get into your class, but Ireally like to take it.
Can you work me in?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Tell them.
You're telling me you're asenior, tell me you're about to
graduate and that you've alwayswanted to take this class and
this is your last chance, andthat you've always wanted to
take this class and this is yourlast chance.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And you know what the funny thing is?
Somehow it came up in an emailconversation and I said oh, I
just emailed the professor andasked and he got me in she would
not respond to any more emailsfrom me.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Wait, who was this?
Your advisor?
Oh, your advisor.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
My advisor.
Sorry Sorry, my advisor.
Yes, I said the wrong.
Yes, yeah, yeah, she won'treply to any more emails from me
.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
That's funny.
That's that's do you know howmany?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
students she works with.
Oh, oh, she has way too manystudents.
I will be the first to.
I mean, every time I talk toher, we first start off with a
conversation about how manycases she has.
Yeah, and I don't doubt she'soverworked.
I'm probably somewhere close toher age, closer to her age than
(25:33):
the other students.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, and I hear about it all the time and I have
no doubt that it is the case.
However, I'm your student.
I don't care, I don't care, Idon't care.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
That doesn't make a difference that doesn't make a
difference.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But you're absolutely right, I am sure she is way
overworked.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
That shouldn't upset her.
If anything, that should tellher that you are very capable of
looking after yourself you arevery capable of looking after
yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I think it upset her because she told me I couldn't
get in and she didn't tell methat I couldn't get into.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I asked her why I wasn't in because she apparently
has to sign me up and and I waslike asking the professor is
not that's that's, that's atotally normal thing, that's not
really that's a totally normalthing, that's not really, that's
not.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I mean they can say no, I just got the sense that
she felt like I went above her.
That maybe I mean she told meno, she told me no and that
wasn't good enough for me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, I don't care, that was the sense I got.
That's totally legit to emailthe professor.
Huh, I'm not saying she didn'tget, but heard about it, but
that's really her problem if shedid.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I wasn't feeling bad about it.
I was like, honey, you don'tseem to be able to get me
anything I need.
Exactly, I can fight my ownbattle here, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Exactly 100%.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So let's say that I am just starting to think that,
you know, maybe I should starttaking a couple of college
classes and I am curious if Icould test out of any of these
classes.
Where do I go or how do I findout more information?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Okay.
So this is where I got reallyexcited about that podcast you
sent me, because that's a goodplace to go and we'll link it in
the show notes.
It's your College Bound Kid isthe name of the podcast, and
it's primarily directed atparents of college bound kids
(27:44):
and they're also very muchfocused on getting into elite
schools, which I feel likethat's not really our focus.
But they interviewed someonefrom Modern States, which is a
nonprofit organization thatoffers free courses to prepare
for CLEP tests, and you enrollin them and once you've
(28:10):
successfully completed a course,then they give you a voucher
and you take that to a CLEPtesting site and then that
covers the cost of the CLEP test.
And I'm not sure what CLEP testcosts.
It's under $100.
I think it's 75.
That sounds right.
So which $75 to test out of acollege course is a really good
(28:37):
deal, it's a super good deal.
Out of a college course is areally good deal.
It's a super good deal.
This is even better because youget a voucher to cover that
cost.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
That's amazing, isn't it?
So like it makes me sad that Idid not somehow figure this out.
And don't blame yourself, don'teven go there.
No, no, no, don't go there.
That's amazing.
I'm so happy that this isavailable.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right, right, I just I want to be clear.
I preemptively grieve for allthe people that I know who would
absorb those classes like asponge, who would love the kinds
of discussions that arepossible in a course.
You know you're in a philosophycourse right now.
(29:23):
I have so many memories fromthe philosophy course I took in
undergrad.
It was the only philosophycourse I ever took, but that was
so helpful in makingconnections with things that I
was learning in other classesand we were able to have
conversations, and thatexperience is what is missing
(29:44):
from online education.
But but again, in the spirit ofthe perfect not being the enemy
of the good, if this helpssomeone get into college, if
this helps open doors, then Ithink it's a great option.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And you know, to be fair, I hear what you're saying
Because I think the beauty insome of these classes is it
helps you think differentlyabout the world, but even
certain subjects.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And even though you disagree, or you might disagree
with some of the conversations,you have to kind of figure out
why you disagree.
So there's that criticalthinking that's happening that I
agree with you is valuable Atthe same time.
If you can graduate in sixyears instead of eight years,
(30:40):
that could really motivate me.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And if you do a handful of themand you go, oh wow, I'm good at
this, I can do this, or maybenot even I'm good at this, but I
can do this, I can figure thisout Then that's really important
too.
So I can imagine a lot ofdifferent scenarios where this
would be a really good option.
(31:04):
I would just hate if anyonelistened to us talk about this
and would think this is a go-tosubstitute for college, say, a
traditional age student who isbeing pressured to shortchange
their education for somebodyelse's benefit.
In a situation like that,that's just unfair to the
student.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And again, I think what this comes back to in a lot
of ways is your own autonomy.
Like the student, really shouldbe able to weigh the pros and
cons and decide if that isactually the path they wish to
take Right.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
So, in other words, let's not put pressure on other
people to do this.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Thank, you Exactly.
It's an option, it's not theonly option.
So I think going to the CLEPwebsite, which we'll link in the
show notes, is also a goodplace to go to get some
information about this.
We'll link to the Modern Stateswebsite and that's the
(32:07):
organization that offers theprep courses and then this is
something you can also ask.
This is something you can askyour admissions officer about,
or Probably there's a testingsite.
I know I took it at a testingoffice of some kind at my
undergrad institution.
(32:27):
It's like I don't remember.
I don't remember the details,but you just ask around until
someone tells you.
Also, I believe if you go onthe Modern States site they list
all the, or maybe it's on theCLEP website, but somewhere you
can go online and you can see alist of all the institutions
(32:48):
that accept CLEP tests.
And I just want to give a wordof caution, because I looked for
the institution where I teachand it said that my institution
does not accept CLEP tests andthen I did a search for the name
of the institution and CLEPtest and it came up on our
website.
We do, but it's something likeemail us to find out which ones
(33:12):
we accept for credit.
So just because a school is noton that list of 2,900
institutions doesn't mean thatthey don't.
It's worth asking about, anddon't take the first no for an
answer.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
The other thing that I think is important to point
out here is so when you, as anadult student, enroll in college
, there is some testing that thecollege will do automatically.
Particularly for me, they didEnglish and math just to make
sure you were at some level.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
That you were prepared, that because it's not
going to do you any favors to beput into a class if you're not
prepared for it, and then you'regoing to have that F on your
permanent record, right.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Yeah, but I think I thought what they were testing
me for was this oh yes, don'tlet the two confuse you.
They're two separate things.
The testing the college isgoing to require is a placement
testing of sorts just to makesure that you are prepared.
(34:22):
Sorts, just to make sure thatyou are prepared, and I guess I
assumed that that was the end ofthe testing options.
I'm guessing your averagecollege isn't going to offer
information about this.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Again, nobody's getting rich off of this and I
took mine during the summer.
I think you know betweensemesters, so you don't have to
do it before you get to college.
You can do it while you're incollege if you work it out
between semesters.
But, yes, yes, and you know,and isn't that?
(34:59):
Isn't that life it's like withso many things we look back and
we don't know what we don't knowuntil we have hindsight.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
At the same time, I do think it works out.
And you know, it's easy for meto sit here when I'm just sick
and tired of being in collegeand be like, oh my word, this
would have been a game changer.
Who knows that?
It would have what if I hadn'tdone so well?
And it would have convinced methat I'm not smart enough to do
(35:30):
it.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
So I think it's easy to imagine that maybe things
would have turned outdifferently, instead of just
appreciating the way it did turnout and where you're at.
And I think there's room forboth, but I think I tend to go
down the first path more quicklythan just offering an
(35:56):
acceptance and appreciation forwhere I'm at.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, it's easy to imagine that the alternative was
the right way.
We were talking about thatrecently Right, it's easy to
think that that other, the pathnot taken, was the one without
any problems.
Right, the one with smoothsailing.
And the reality is that that'snot a thing.
And can I tie this back to whatwe're talking about?
(36:21):
At the very beginning, you knowthe idea of turning 50 before
you graduate from college, andwithout minimizing the harm of
educational neglect, which is areal thing and hugely
problematic, what's a beautifulthing is the tenacity and
courage you had to fight throughthat, to fight through those
(36:44):
barriers and to pursue the lifeyou wanted.
And the degree you'll graduatewith is going to be a much
richer and seasoned degree thanall the 21-year-olds who went
straight from high school, andyou experienced college
(37:04):
differently than they did.
The learning that you broughtto it, the experience you
brought to it, made it a muchricher experience for you.
That makes it a thing of beautyin its own right, and that's
like the most understated thingI've ever said.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
That's one of the kindest things I think you've
ever said.
I mean, no, that doesn't soundright either.
It is an extremely kind thingto say and, I think, a very true
thing that I think sometimes weoften forget about in the
middle of the fight and I thinkmaybe no matter how we get there
(37:49):
, we should be proud ofourselves.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Exactly, exactly, and we can be proud of our
accomplishments without kind ofdoing the silver lining thing
that minimizes the harm thatexists alongside it, right, and
the path of joy is appreciatingwhat is Right.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Sometimes I think it's so easy to have this false
positive where you have to Toxicpositivity.
Yes, yes, yes.
Where you have to make itpositive, yes, and I don't think
that's good either.
That's not good either.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
And that's what.
I'm trying not to do.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Right.
I don't think either one of usis suggesting that Right.
At the same time, I think it iseasy to doubt ourselves Right
and to to um, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
is it about this thing we come back to again and
again, where it's about holdingboth things in at once?
You know, it's not about sayingwas this a good thing or a bad
thing, but it's like here arethe good things and here are the
unfortunate things and I thinkabout honoring the process too.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, yeah like there's certain, there's a
certain richness and a certainacceptance.
Maybe that comes in honoringthe process for what it was
Right, right, and it took melonger than I hoped.
It took me way longer than Ihoped, and I can come up with
(39:23):
1000 reasons it did, but those1000 reasons aren't necessarily
all bad.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And it was my process .
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
And I don't think it's a matter of it being the
perfect process or the idealprocess, even it was just the
process, yeah.
And I think learning toappreciate and respect.
It has been good for me,because if you don't, you're
going to also.
I will drown in the sea ofresentment, and that's not a fun
(39:57):
place to be.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
No one.
No one wants to live withsomeone who's resentful.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Or to be that person it's miserable, or to be that
person Exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
It's miserable.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, Exactly, I agree, and I think it's great
when we can see the range ofexperiences and range of paths
and see them for the successesthey are, without hiding the
painful parts and acknowledgingit all is what I mean.
That's without hiding thepainful parts and acknowledging
it all is what I mean.
That's really where the wonderis right.
I mean, that's where the wowcomes in, when you realize not
(40:33):
only what you accomplished, butwhat it was in the face of Right
.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
And I think 99.9% of our listeners can identify with
this as well.
You know so much of life.
When it comes down to it, it'sjust simply about figuring it
out.
Most of us don't have a lot ofit handed to us, Otherwise we're
(40:57):
not listening to this podcast,Right?
Most of us have had to figureit out.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
And sometimes you figure it out a little bit wrong
, sometimes you figure it out alittle shady, and sometimes it's
like man, I'm the boss of todayand it's all okay, it is all
good, and at the end of the day,I think we can give ourselves
credit because we're justfiguring it out, and that's good
(41:26):
enough too.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
What are your thoughts about college and
recovery from high demandreligion?
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences and we
want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atUncoveredbeyond at gmailcom.
That's uncoveredlifebeyond atgmailcom.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.
Stay brave, stay bold Whileyou're there.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an
episode.
Until next time, stay brave,stay bold, stay awkward.
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