August 26, 2024 • 52 mins
Ever wonder how midlife moms juggle college, caregiving, and running a business? Today Rebecca walks us through the ways that she has combined her college career with all her other responsibilities. She gives us a glimpse into typical features of her daily life, describing the ways her days have changed over the past decade of her long, determined march to graduation. We find out how she motivated her teens to take responsibility around the house and how she explained a pile of dirty tissues to her daughter on a particularly rough day.
Rebecca describes how her classes have changed since the pandemic and her complicated feelings about online courses. Along the way she offers practical tips that anyone can use to help manage the chaos of adulting and keeping everyone fed. We also find out which hallowed family tradition she dropped, and why she feels no guilt for doing so. Her advice for her younger self changes depends on the realities of different life stages, but always includes grace for doing the best she could at the time. Ultimately, letting go of the need for external validation or others' permission to pursue life goals is the first step toward reaching them.
And you'll never guess what Amish tradition Rebecca's twins insisted on taking with them to college. Here's a hit: you can't really enjoy potpie or yumazetti without it! (IYKYK)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is Rebecca and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we questioned ourfaith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Along the way, we've uncovered a few insights we want
to share with fellow travelers.
We want to talk about thequestions we didn't know who to
ask and the options we didn'tknow we had.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up, we are here to cheeryou on and assure you that the
best is yet to come.
Welcome to Uncovered LifeBeyond.
(01:16):
This is Naomi.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
And this is Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So today we're going to get to hear all about how
starting college and midlife hasshifted things for you, rebecca
, on a day-to-day level.
I think you know, for myselfand for lots of us who are the
first in our families to go tocollege, it's hard to know what
to expect, like you know, interms of what's going to change
day-to-day.
And if you've got dependents,you've got family depending on
you to be the primary caregiverand you're considering going to
(01:50):
college, there's this whole.
There's a sense of uncertaintyabout how making this change in
our life is going to affectothers, and not just in the big
picture, but also day to day,and so it's hard to know.
Is this something that couldfit into my life or is this
going to cause so much chaos?
So thank you for agreeing to dothis.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I know how it is to kind ofworry about things you don't
know about, right Well, when youaren't sure what to worry about
.
Someone tell me what I shouldbe most concerned about, Right?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
exactly.
I remember when I had I'dfinished undergrad, I was
thinking about grad school andlike I was just trying to get a
feel for like what is differentabout the experience of grad
school and I could not get astraight answer from the handful
of people I had access to atthe time.
So I just had to you know, Ijust had to dive in and figure
(02:46):
it out as I went and pretend Iknew what I was doing.
I think for any of us there arethings we are concerned about
and then turn out not to be anissue, turns out to be a piece
of cake.
There's always the plot twists,and hearing what others have
experienced can kind of give usa sense of whether something is
(03:07):
maybe doable for us or whetherit's something we need to
realistically hold off on for awhile.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Sure, yeah, and I think sometimes the unknown is
what can trip us up the most,and sometimes it's kind of like,
okay, well, if someone else cando that, I probably can figure
it out too.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right, right, well, and I also think about it that
if you come from a background ofeducational neglect, it's
probably a background thathasn't really valued education,
formal education, and so I meanwe grew up with lots of warnings
about college, you know.
And so if you don't know muchabout it and all you have to go
(03:51):
on is warnings, you know as faras what the experience is like,
then yeah, you're not reallyworking.
You're probably not workingwith accurate information.
That's not good information tomake decisions off of Absolutely
.
All right, so let's give this ago.
And true confessions.
We recorded a ton of contentyesterday and then we ended the
(04:14):
call and I started editing andrealized I had not turned my mic
on, so we decided to get upearly this morning, monday
morning, and give it anothershot.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And it's the first day back to school for both of
us, so we're winning.
We're winning.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
We've got our coffee.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
We've got our coffee.
We've got to go on.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
It's a step in the right direction.
That's right.
So I think the way we'llstructure this conversation is
breaking it down into a day inthe life, and we'll break it
down into like five sections.
So we've got early morning,late morning, early afternoon,
late afternoon and evening, andwhat I'd love to hear are the
(04:57):
ways that being a studentshifted those routines in your
family's life, in your life, andwhat that's been like for you.
And I should say for background,that you've been the primary
caregiver in your household andthat's been probably a central
(05:19):
role for most of your life, formost of your time as a mother,
and I think it's important forour listeners to know that you
have also been running abusiness during this time a very
successful one, I might add andyou've also been working
outside the home.
And also you are the personthat so many people come to when
(05:40):
they are in a crisis, and soyou're an unofficial one-stop
shop for recent immigrants, forpeople who find them, maybe
young girls who need a place tostay because they can't live at
home anymore All kinds ofsituations that you've stepped
in on a voluntary basis to helpfolks out.
(06:02):
So it's not just that you wentfrom taking care of your own
house to including college, butyou're including college on top
of all these other things.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And that's probably a large reason that it's taking
me as long as it is, and whileI'm kind of reaching the point
where I am over it, at the sametime I'm grateful that I've been
able to do what I've been doing.
When I first started, the twinswould have been freshmen and
Chase would have been in fourthgrade and we had conversations
(06:36):
about how things would changeand I would need more help.
And they were fabulous.
My family really was fabulousabout it.
Something that I I don't knowmagically kind of fell upon was,
instead of having specificchores everyone had to do, I
would make lists of what neededto be done and everyone would
get to pick what they wanted todo, and it felt like that kind
(06:58):
of gave them some control.
They also saw me studying.
They saw me always kind ofdoing homework in between
everything else and it seemedlike they were proud to be a
part of that.
And I think it's easy to worryabout maybe the mom guilt and
not having put your family first.
(07:20):
I think it's good for your kidsto see you working towards
something that kind of redeems apart of your life and it gives
them an awareness of what theyhave.
I'll never forget one day Ipicked them up at school, front
seat, looks at the floor andshe's like what's going on here?
(07:52):
And it was like littered withtissues and I was like, well, I
had my own bad day and it was aday where I realized how much I
did miss in math and how farbehind I was and I was really
struggling.
And I just told them that andthey absolutely immediately were
like well, here, I know thatstuff and they tutored me
(08:12):
through it.
They really did.
Yeah, so it's been really neatto.
It's been really cool.
It's been really affirming towatch my family jump in.
Matt tended to do more of themeal planning not always, but
often If there was meal planninghe did it and, yeah, my family
(08:33):
absolutely jumped in.
It helps.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Wow, that's wonderful , and what I'm hearing you say
there is like you gave yourfamily, your kids, more
ownership, or gave them anopportunity for ownership by
letting them choose what theywanted to do instead of you
telling them.
But then also that scene in thecar oh my goodness, that is
such a touching scene and Ithink about what that's modeling
(08:56):
for your kids in terms ofresilience, in terms of what is
possible with midlife pivots andreally getting through a tough
time.
Those are incredible lifelessons.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
It's kind of tricky knowing how much grief to expose
your kids to how much personalgrief, because I don't want them
to carry my stuff and it wasn'tplanned.
I never thought about the factthat I should maybe clean up my
tissues before I pick them up,probably because I didn't have
time, that I should maybe cleanup my tissues before I pick them
up, probably because I didn'thave time.
But yeah, it's kind ofinteresting how some of that
(09:31):
stuff kind of plays out the wayit needs to and it's redemptive
moments.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
So.
Let's talk about the differentparts of your day, then, and
what that looks like Earlymorning.
What does that look like atyour house?
Is it a quiet coffee andcontemplation kind of scene, or
are you cranking up the tunes towake everybody up?
(09:55):
What is your life like, and howhas that changed since you've
brought college as a thing ontoyour plate?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So what changed the most probably for me was I get
up a little bit earlier.
I tend to get up between 5.30and 6 o'clock and I'm more of a
quiet coffee and blumblingaround the place first thing in
the morning.
But I tend to try to get up andkind of work on some homework
(10:25):
first thing.
I feel like my brain works thebest then and it's quiet and so
I want to take advantage of that.
So I try to get about two hoursof that in before my morning
really starts going, before thekids start getting up, and that
again has changed a bit in thelast several years.
(10:45):
There's a little girl I takecare of and so she usually comes
around 730.
So I'm kind of trying to figureout how to work my school
schedule into that.
But I do have another friendwho takes her some mornings just
so I can have that routine, andthat's been helpful as well,
and I think maybe that's part ofthe deal.
(11:06):
What worked when I was firststarting school has kind of
changed.
I now have kids in college, butnow I also have a second grader
I'm taking care of.
So things keep shifting andchanging but it doesn't hit for
all of us.
I mean, that's nothing new.
That's nothing new.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
That reminds me of something I heard recently that,
when it comes to productivityand this kind of thing, so often
all the how-to books aretelling us how to keep a
schedule, but the reality ofmost of our lives as caregivers
is that we need more skillsaround pivoting and about how to
do that, how to shift gears,and I'm really glad you made
(11:49):
that point.
But what I'm hearing you say isthat when you started college,
the twins were in high school orfinishing high school and
starting college, and thenthey've been off to college the
last few years, and so I canimagine that just having fewer
people wandering around thehouse in the morning, even if
you're not actively getting themready for school the way you
(12:10):
would have years ago, rightright, makes a difference.
It makes a difference.
And then having a second gradermakes a difference, and then
you take her to school, is thatright?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, she doesn't know English real well and I
don't know I feel kind of badputting her on the bus.
I'm like I don't need to dothat so and it's not schools
really close to where we live,so I just run her up to school
real quick, it's yeah that'sreally sweet.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, I'm sure she and her mom appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well, you know they'd find me if I lived in their
country as well.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
That's what we hope, right?
So shifting gears then to whata late morning might look like
when the morning rush is over.
What does a late morning looklike for you these days?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know, it kind of varies a little bit depending on
what day of the week it is.
I've realized I tend to kind ofcategorize what happens on
specific days of the week almostmore.
Monday and Tuesdays tend to bemy heavy schoolwork days.
That's kind of when I work onmy business stuff mostly.
(13:19):
And I mean like, if anyonecares, thursdays are the days I
water my plants, but thenWednesdays I work, and often
either Thursday or Friday I work.
Some weeks I work both Thursdayand Friday, but often it's one
of the two.
So it kind of depends a littlebit.
(13:39):
You know what day of the week itis and what my work schedule is
.
But late mornings tend to bewhen I kind of throw in laundry
and get a load of laundrystarted.
And on Monday and Tuesdays Imight work on homework but I
might also kind of try and getsome of my orders put together.
(14:00):
And also I find myself making alot of doctor's appointments
and phone calls those days inthe morning, simply because I
know I need to get that takencare of too.
And mornings tend to be easierIf I'm working.
I usually leave their housearound 1030, 11 o'clock and
often what I try to do is if Ihave something I need to take to
(14:24):
the bank or something I need todrop off or something even that
I might need to pick up.
I just throw all that, andmaybe a note for a reminder, in
a basket.
I know that, okay, I need tomake these stops and it makes it
a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
There's less forgetting that happens and I
can kind of remember what'sgoing on and what I need to get
taken care of.
I love that.
It's like you're putting,you're giving yourself less to
remember.
Yeah Right, because it's rightthere in the basket.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I love that idea.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So do you want to talk a little bit about what
school has looked like for youat different times, in terms of
attending class on a campus orcourses at home, online courses,
that you meet online with agroup or that it's all
asynchronous.
You just kind of turn in yourwork and you work independently.
(15:21):
What does that look like andhow does that affect your days?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
My classes all started out in person and on
campus, and how it works is itkind of depends on what your
credit hour is for the class andhow long the class takes.
If I'm remembering correctly, Ithink my class has always met
either Monday, wednesday orTuesday, thursday and that was
(15:50):
kind of nice because I kind ofhad the set schedule and
typically you go to class andyou can expect to be in the
class for about an hour and 15minutes.
If you're having that type ofschedule the Monday Wednesday,
the Tuesday Thursday scheduleFor the higher credit hours I
(16:15):
think those might have gone alittle longer.
If I'm remembering correctly, Ithink some of the classes I was
in class for an hour and a half.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Does that sound right ?
I could see that, especially ifthey're maybe a four hour, four
credit hour course.
Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think it might have gone a little bit longer, and
typically, if that happened, theprofessor would give us a break
in between.
Does that mean, then, that youwere on campus four days a week?
(17:09):
I just couldn't do it, and so Itried to juggle classes that
might be more back to back oreven a class that might have a
45 minute wait period in between.
But I was prepared then to dohomework or make those doctor
phone calls then and tried tomake sure that when I was on
campus I was using that timewisely.
You can always find spots inthe library or lounges where you
(17:32):
could hang out and work, and ofcourse I always tried to find
little corners where no one wassitting so that I could have the
world to myself.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right.
So when we're talking aboutthree credit courses, four
credit courses, that determinesthe amount of time that you'll
spend in the classroom, right,right.
But I think when we're talkingabout what this looks like at
the college level, then I thinkit's important to remember that
(18:08):
the expectation is thatexpectations of homework I mean,
it's not that it's, it's notthat the expectations of
(18:29):
homework are new, but, like, theextent of what's expected, the
substance of the homework, Ithink, takes them many of them,
by surprise at the college level, because they're maybe used to
something just being kind of.
Maybe they just kind of have to, maybe it's reviewing something
they talked about in class, orthey just kind of.
(18:50):
I'm guessing this is true foryou, because this is certainly
true for my experience that it'sabout setting you up in class
to then spend two to three timesthe time you've spent in class
doing homework.
And homework is not just reviewusually, but it's learning,
it's applying things you'velearned about in class.
(19:12):
Writing papers, writing paperswhich takes a ton of creativity,
Like what's expected is notjust writing things stream of
consciousness or kind of.
Here's what I think about this,you know, opinion papers.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
You've got to go look up information, and and so what
that means is, if I spent, likeon a Monday, wednesday, if I
spent two hours in classes, theadvice is that I can expect to
spend between four to six hourseach day doing additional
homework.
I think that's a generous rule,and maybe I shouldn't say that
(19:52):
I'm pretty sure I don't spendthat much time doing homework.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You and lots of other folks.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
But at the same time, you know, it's kind of hard to
measure that, because if I'mgetting up mornings, yeah, it
adds up it does add up.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And I wonder if you find that some weeks you spend
more time on it than others.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
That would be absolutely true.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
I've often wondered how muchCOVID changed my experience and
how much of it would havehappened anyway.
How much COVID changed myexperience and how much of it
would have happened anyway.
But obviously, at COVID we wentto more online classes and even
then those met at specifictimes primarily, and I was glad
(20:36):
for that time.
I was glad that when they madethe shift they still tried to
meet online because I felt likethe, even though it was a
virtual, you still had thoseconnections.
One of my favorite professorswas during COVID and it was
completely online.
But the more time passes andthe more and I don't know
(21:00):
whether it's the more advancedmy classes are or if it's just
kind of the way the ship issailing they tend to be
asynchronous and which meansthey give you the work to do and
you just do whatever you needto do it and typically there's
no face-to-face communication.
Oftentimes the professors willput up like conversation boards
(21:23):
and you have to engage inconversation throughout the week
, but not always.
I've had classes where thatwasn't even happening and
sometimes the students have toengage, but the professor never
engages.
For that you can probably tellme more than I even know.
(21:46):
But my guess is I think collegesfind that this saves them a lot
of money and I think they throwa lot of classes at professors.
So I think a lot of theprofessors are overworked.
But I will admit that theasynchronous classes are
difficult for me.
If I wouldn't be committed, Iwould probably.
I can see why people would quit, right.
Right, it's got some triggeringelements of the whole CLE, bce.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Study carols.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, and it's the sense of oh my goodness, here I
am alone again.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
But I've also had professors who have.
Actually, it was one professorand at the beginning of the
semester she sent out individualquestionnaires and I remember
her one question being tell mewhat you feel might be your
major-.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Challenge barrier.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah at achieving or completing this class, and I
really appreciated that becauseit kind of at least made you
feel like you were beinghumanized and that she wanted to
be intentional on beingproactive and I felt like those
types of connections really dohelp.
(22:58):
So I think people are tryingmostly.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So I think people are trying mostly Right.
Yeah, I think you're rightabout some schools, a lot of
schools, seeing onlineinstruction as a way that they
don't have to pay for classroomspace.
But the thing is for those ofus teaching those classes and I
just had a taste of it duringCOVID but it feels to us like it
(23:25):
takes more time and effort thanan in-person class and I don't
know how much of that is actualtime and effort and how much of
it is just kind of the.
When you don't have that socialreward of face-to-face
interaction, then it makes itfeel more taxing.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, I can't believe that the completion rate is
good, which would also have tobe frustrating for a professor.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
It's bad and I don't know back it's been over 10
years now.
It was while I was in gradschool.
There was a lot of talk ofMOOCs, massive open online
courses, and these are coursesthat were being offered by big
universities.
It's a handful of well, no, I'mnot even sure if it's
(24:16):
universities, maybe it's justprivate entities but the idea
was that you could go and study,you could take a course with
this famous scholar of this andthis expert in this or this area
, and there were fears that thiswas totally going to devastate
higher education and we were allgoing to graduate, we're all
going to finish grad school, andthere'd be no jobs.
(24:38):
There's still didn't have a lotof jobs, but it wasn't as bad
as as as some predicted, and abig part of it was that the
completion rates on those MOOCs,on those massive open online
courses, were was was justabysmal, and I think that
probably the thought is well,people aren't paying money, they
aren't invested, and so maybebecause I've also taught so
(25:01):
during COVID I taught a coupleof composition, so first year
composition courses online andafter doing that a couple of
times, I didn't feel I couldethically offer that again
because of the completion rate.
And these were students who weregoing to be on the hook for
that tuition and they were goingto be every bit as much on the
(25:24):
hook, whether they finished thecourse or not, because they
weren't dropping it early on,they were just getting.
Life was happening.
And I guess my other concern isthat I can imagine someone a
well-intentioned onlooker mightsay well, oh, if you can take
college classes at home on thecomputer, then you can just keep
(25:47):
being the primary caregiver andjust do it on top of all the
other things you're doing.
And I just want to say, no, itdoesn't work that way.
You've got to have dedicatedtime, because caregiving is a
job all on its own Right anddoing the kind of intellectual
(26:08):
work that schoolwork is going toexpect of you is takes your
full attention to.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, and I would also throw out the suggestion
that, be aware, even if you're aparent sending your kid to
college, my one kid has two ofthese classes asynchronous
classes this semester and justfrom previous experience I know
(26:35):
that I have to keep asking aboutit because it's really
difficult for them to stayengaged and in some ways, as
much as I hate it, cle probablyprepared me for this so that I'm
better at it.
So know yourself and know yourkids.
(26:56):
It's not ideal, but I also knowthat at this point in my life
it's not going to happen anyother way, and so it's a suck it
up buttercup type of Well, wejust got to get you into grad
school.
You keep talking about this gradschool thing.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And then you'll be and then, especially if it's
Well, some of those are onlinetoo, but I think you'll have a
much greater chance of aninteractive experience.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, especially if it's face to face classes.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so that was late morning.
Let's talk about what yourearly afternoons look like.
So let's say, after lunch Iimagine this depends on which
day of the week it is, butanything in particular that
shifted for you during that partof the day, or maybe has
(27:49):
shifted multiple times.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, so something I do fairly consistently early
afternoon, and especially when Iget up that early.
And I had never really thoughtabout it this way.
But several years ago there wasan Amish girl living with us
and somewhere in theconversation she made a comment
about her mom.
(28:11):
And her mom is one of thoseAmish women who work circles
around the best of us.
She's the epitome of hot shafi.
I mean, everything is spotless,everything is taken care of,
but this girl just kind of likesnorted and she's like you know
my mom took a nap or read a bookfor an hour every day.
(28:34):
She always said those men getto take an hour off.
I can too, and I had neverthought about it that way before
.
But it kind of shifted somethingin my brain and so if I'm home
in the early afternoon and itmight even just be 30 minutes,
but I really make an effort totake a nap.
(28:55):
Taking a nap for me feels likea guilty pleasure.
Whether I really need it or notdoesn't matter.
My couch sits where, like, thesun shines in through the window
, and I like to time it so thatthe sun's shining in and you can
kind of soak it up.
But even if I don't do that.
I might read a book or I might,you know, whatever it is that
(29:20):
feels like a treat.
I allow myself to do that and Idon't really care what else is
going on.
I try really hard to give spacefor it, because I think it's
easy for many of us to feel likeour value is based on what gets
(29:42):
done and what if I'm deserving,just because I'm deserving.
So I really make an effort todo that when I'm at home.
If I'm not working, if I'm athome early afternoon, I usually
kind of start thinking aboutdinner and I tend to do probably
(30:02):
one or two crockpot thingies aweek, and that varies a little
bit.
But of course if I do that I'mgoing to start that a little bit
earlier in the day.
But that's when I get seriousabout laundry or cleaning stuff
up.
But yeah, typically that earlyafternoon is when I shift from
(30:23):
schoolwork or even businessstuff to taking care of
household chores.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Okay, okay, I love what you said about.
Oh, hang on, we've got all thealarms going off here, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Outside or like the emergency alarms.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
No, no, wake up alarms.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, oh, gotcha, gotcha emergency alarms.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
No, no, wake up alarms.
Yeah, oh, gotcha, gotcha.
I love what you were sayingabout the importance of rest or
recreation, you know, whateverform that might take, because I
think it's easy for us to thinkof it as a reward, but the
reality is it's fuel for us todo the things that we want to do
and need to do.
It's a necessary luxury.
(31:05):
If it is a luxury, yeah,absolutely so.
Then, in early afternoon, asyou're shifting your attention
more to household things, whathas your late afternoon looked
like?
Has there been a lot ofchauffeuring kids to activities,
getting people where they needto be?
(31:26):
What part does dinner play?
Do you have like a big sit downdinner every night, or how has
that changed over time as well?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
So when I would have started school, the twins would
have been in dance.
Chase has always been in soccer, dance Chase has always been in
soccer.
So, yeah, there's always a lotof schedules and making sure
that everyone gets to where theyneed to be.
So I typically I primarily cookfrom scratch.
Like you know, a home cookedmeal typically.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I feel like you're mocking my bread.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I'm not, I'm not not at all.
I kind of have a self-imposedbread ban in my house because it
makes me fluffy and I can'tstop once I start.
But your bread makes it throughthe ban.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
So I am proud.
One thing that I have found islike if I make a pot of chili
soup, I'm going to make a bigenough batch so that I can
freeze half of it.
Or if I make lasagna, I freezeat least one pan, if not two, if
(32:45):
not two.
And I learned pretty quickly Ineed to do that type of thing to
stay on top of stuff, becauseit allows you just to kind of
pull something out real quickand you have it.
And again that has kind ofshifted as the twins went to
college.
These days I every so oftenthrow Chase a 20 and tell him to
find himself some food.
And there's a certain amount ofmom guilt that I had to kind of
get over.
(33:06):
But I realized, like he reallydoes not mind, right, who would
what teen, what teen would?
But the other thing is, I mean,when he goes to college he's
going to have to know how tofigure out how to eat anyway and
what to eat.
So in some ways I don't know, Ihave kind of dropped the guilt
(33:30):
and I'm like man, it's what itis, and I think it's so easy to
get caught up in this.
Know, everything has to be fromscratch or whatever the gig is.
Whatever the gig is, and while Istill kind of lean that way,
(33:54):
I'm finding that, at the end ofthe day, as long as we're fed,
that's kind of what's important.
As long as we're loved, that'swhat's important.
And I don't need to what's theterm you always use.
I don't have to light myself onfire to keep everyone else warm
.
People are able to light theirown fires too, and I try to
(34:19):
absolutely make sure my kids arefed.
I mean my kids.
You'll get a kick out of this.
The twins decided they neededapplesauce at college.
Of all the things, applesaucewas a thing that we had to can.
It had to be homemade.
And they literally take cannedjars of applesauce to college.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's precious.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
That is precious.
Well, the one kid was sittingin the dining hall and she said
I was eating pot pie.
And I looked around my tableand I said does anyone else feel
like we need applesauce withthis?
And she said they all looked atme and blinked and I'm like, oh
my child, you're so Amish, Iknow, I know, but now applesauce
(35:03):
is their gut, their thing.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
That's so funny.
That's so funny Because wedon't need a ton of applesauce
around here.
But now that you say that, likethe thought of like Yamazeti or
some kind of casserole, andapplesauce is like peanut butter
and jelly, so yeah, absolutely,that's great.
So did you make family dinnersa priority when everyone was
(35:32):
still living at home?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The juggle was too much.
At that point Matt was workingabout 20 minutes from here and
he often worked until 530.
So often he didn't get hometill six o'clock and the kids
needed to be wherever they weregoing well before six o'clock.
So no, we just kind of ate aswe dribbled into the house and
as the schedule allowed.
(35:56):
Around here the high schoolkids get home an hour before
elementary kids do, beforeelementary kids do, so sometimes
the twins would eat and go totheir dance or whatever, almost
(36:16):
before Chase even got home.
So we absolutely ate in shifts.
And you know, I know, growingup, this whole thing of you know
having the family meal was likethis, seemingly foundation of a
quote good family.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Right, yeah, you hear that even now.
It's the kind of this marker ofwhether you're functioning as a
family correctly.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, yeah and I just disagree.
I mean yeah, yeah and I justdisagree.
I mean, a few years ago, thepopular saying was breast is
best when it came to nursing orfeeding your infant.
And I was always like no fed isbest, like, what?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, the prescriptiveness of it, like it
has to happen this way to beright, without any sense of what
the context is or anysensitivity to what's going on
or what the options are, if youdon't what the alternatives are.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And at first I kind of tied myself in knots trying
to make this family dinner thingwork and I realized it's
ridiculous.
The kids come home from school,they're hungry.
Matt doesn't get home from workuntil six.
Why should they wait for two orthree hours hungry when there's
so many other things that Ithink are so much more important
(37:39):
?
Are they safe, are they loved,are they heard, are they seen?
So I don't know.
I guess I push back a littlebit on the whole family dinner
thing.
Now, usually about once aweekend we'll have maybe a big
brunch or you know, I don't know, we might get pizza or whatever
(38:02):
it is.
But I guess I wonder a littlebit about the whole notion of
the family dinner, Like why havewe made that?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
the perceived marker, yeah Indicator, like why was?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
it that?
Why was it that?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Mm-hmm.
No, I agree, I agree, and Ithink those kinds of things can
be sentimentalized and thenweaponized against moms when
they dare do something for theirown benefit.
And, like you said, the realityis that the kids are better off
(38:41):
having their needs met, youknow, eating when they're hungry
, rather than being hangry for acouple of hours.
I mean, how's that going tohelp nurture a strong family
dynamic?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Right and face it.
We've all had nights wherefamily dinner was in the car,
sure Like.
So what are we going to do?
Not eat because we can't havethis perfect scenario?
What are we going to do Not eatbecause we can't have this
perfect scenario?
And I feel like I think we needto be really aware of these
measures of perfection thatwe're given and in that
perfection there can be a lot ofdysfunction.
(39:16):
So just because you hit thatand I think sometimes attempting
to hit it causes somedysfunction, so maybe sometimes
attempting to hit it causes somedysfunction.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
So maybe no, I agree.
It's like if you make thefamily dinner the pinnacle or
the foundation of health in yourfamily, but relationships are
frayed, people's individuals'needs are overlooked and
minimized, like the familydinner is nothing.
It's just a performance.
And yeah, I agree, we shouldn'tspend too much time feeling
(39:52):
guilty about letting go of aperformance.
Absolutely yeah absolutely.
So evening.
What does your evening usuallylook like?
Are you usually relaxing,watching TV, drinking tea and
reading a book, socializing?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
So in the evening I tend to sort of try to plan
tomorrow.
I kind of try to know what'scoming up.
I might have conversations withMatt about hey, I'm working,
but this kid needs to go to thedoctor, are you still good, or
you know whatever?
Whatever it might be, and justmake sure everyone's on the same
page.
My kids never like surprisesand I think maybe that's part of
(40:37):
the reason I did this as well,because then I would have
conversations with them hey, I'mgoing to be working and your
dad's not going to be working,and your dad's not going to be
home until five, but he knows heneeds to take you to dance.
So that way they were assuredthat everyone knew where they
needed to be.
(40:57):
I tell them where the food is,or whatever, but that way
everyone's assured that theirschedules matter, that we know
what's going on, that we'regoing to be there.
And it took some of the anxietyaway.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Sure, it also probably helped them to be more
independent too, yeah, yeah,having a sense of oh, here's
what's going to happen, insteadof everything magically
appearing Right, right, yeah,yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
For sure.
Typically and again thischanged throughout the years I
might kind of look at homeworkand just kind of make sure that
I didn't miss any deadlines.
I am finding out that I don'tdo so good with the unwinding,
or intentional unwinding in theevening.
Usually it's more of a crashlanding in bed and being like,
oh my God, we made it.
As the kids got older, thatchanged somewhat.
(41:54):
These days, man, I like beingin bed by 9.30, 10 o'clock.
That's happiness and it doesn'tnecessarily happen always.
Everyone in my family, exceptfor me, tends to be a night owl,
and I remember the kids were inhigh school and they and Matt
were doing their thing and it'slike 10 o'clock and I'm like,
(42:17):
man, you guys, I'm tired, I'mgoing to bed.
And I remember the first time Idid that I couldn't believe I
wasn't like you know, tucking mykids in bed, making sure
everyone was in bed.
But you know what?
That's not something I have tocontrol, like, at some level, at
some point they can go to bedtoo, and I didn't do that every
night, but there were nights.
(42:37):
I absolutely did that and Ithink again, it goes back to, of
course, ensuring your kids aretaken care of, but it's also
okay to take care of yourself,and we have a firm rule at our
house of yourself, and we have afirm rule at our house no
important decisions get madeafter eight o'clock, like,
unless you are bleeding andabout to die, we won't even take
(42:58):
you to the emergency room.
That's not quite true, but wejust don't make important
decisions after eight o'clock.
We're all tired, it might feeloverwhelming and scary, but
let's go to bed, let's sleep onit and tomorrow morning we'll
figure it out.
(43:18):
And I am a huge believer inthat logic, because trying to
figure things out at 10 o'clockhas kept me awake until two
o'clock far too often.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Right, and then your energy has sapped the rest of
the next.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, and so I just tell myself, I tell the kids you
know what?
We don't need to deal with it.
We don't need to deal with it.
We can take care of thattomorrow.
That's a tomorrow project, andI've found I think we all sleep
better that way.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Absolutely, and then start the day fresh Right,
absolutely.
And then start the day freshRight the next day.
Yeah, so when you look back andthink about your younger self
in these different stages oflife so single adult and then
before marriage, and then aftermarriage, no kids, and then
(44:08):
after kids what is some of theadvice you would give your
younger self, or maybe somebodywho is in those stages who are
considering college but not sureif the time is right, if it's
the thing to do.
Maybe instead of college, it'stime to prepare in some way, but
(44:30):
what?
Or maybe it's not college,maybe it's some other dream.
What advice would you give youryounger self about pursuing
those dreams?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
When I think about myself as a single adult, I've
started giving her a lot moregrace and even affirmation.
These days I'm kind ofimpressed she survived.
Mm-hmm.
Affirmation.
These days I'm kind ofimpressed she survived.
And while there's a part of methat wonders why didn't you go
(44:59):
to college, she was doing good,just paying for rent.
And I think the only advice Iwould give her was the people
you're trying to impress willnever be impressed.
Let them go, just let them go.
Be yourself, and it's not yourjob.
It's not your job to impresspeople.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
There's some people you can never gain approval from
and don't put mental energytowards that, just don't.
Most of the people Idesperately tried to impress
back then I'm not in arelationship with today and I
also think about the pressure weput on other people.
(45:43):
So I think about myself.
Are there people in my life whoare desperately trying to earn
my approval, and what am I goingto do with that?
So I try to kind of be aware ofthat, because I think we do
that to people and I would liketo suggest we are careful about
that.
I do wish after I got married Iwould have pursued education a
(46:04):
bit more.
In many ways, that would havebeen the perfect time to start
my education.
We were married for six yearsbefore we had kids, and that was
intentional.
I didn't want to be poor mywhole life, and so the goal was
to earn us money for a soliddown payment on our house, which
(46:25):
we did, and it was fun just tohave that space and time where I
was responsible for me and itwas me.
But that would have, inhindsight, that would have kind
of been a really magical timefor college, and I think the
advice I would give myself nowis you don't have to get other
people's permission.
(46:45):
I think we unconsciously maybeeven wait on other people's
permission and we need to stopdoing that.
Unfortunately, the people in mylife who I was kind of looking
for permission from had been incollege and I kind of got the
feedback or the message that Iprobably wasn't smart enough for
(47:07):
it, which and again, that wasmy perceived message whether it
was intentional or not, whoknows but I wish I wouldn't have
doubted myself so much and Iwish I would have just done it.
It's kind of amazing whathappens if you just do what you
know you need to do instead ofasking for permission all the
(47:28):
time.
100%.
People are okay, married withyoung kids.
When my kids were little, I amglad that I didn't try to do
college then, I don't know.
There's times I really grievethat I'm as old as I am and just
finishing, but I think evenmore than that, I'm grateful
(47:49):
that I had the experience I didwith my kids when they were
younger.
I was building my business thenand I can tend to be quite
competitive and driven.
I guess at times my kids haveinformed me Just a little bit,
which is funny.
I never considered myselfcompetitive and my kids all
snored at me and Matt was in theconversation too and they're
(48:10):
like you are the mostcompetitive person in this
family and I'm like, really Me.
So no, I really don't thinkwhen the kids were young,
starting school would have beensmart and I feel bad saying that
it might work perfectly forsomeone else.
I don't know that mentally Iwould have been able to navigate
(48:31):
all the demands.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Especially when you were the mother of twins.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, I had four kids or so sorry, I had
three kids in four years.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
And it just wouldn't have been good.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I think now that the kids are older and we're where
we're at, I have so muchgratitude and appreciation for
the love, support and evenforgiveness that we get from our
kids and the relationships thatwe have, and I guess I credit a
(49:11):
lot of that to therelationships we built when they
were young.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
And I'm not so sure that would have happened if I'd
have been trying to jugglecollege.
And I think the thing that Itell myself when I get
overwhelmed or even when I'm inthe middle of grief these days,
which happens this past week,has kind of been a lesson in
managing anxiety, again forvarious reasons.
(49:36):
But at the end of the day, Iknow who I am.
At the end of the day, I knowwhat I want out of life.
Mostly.
I'm still not sure if I wentgrad school, but we're talking
about it.
I think maybe the most powerfulpart of it is, I trust, the
process.
I don't have to know exactlyexactly what is going to happen,
(49:59):
but I know we're going to beokay and for that alone I am so
grateful.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Absolutely, and I think that's maybe one of the
most important takeaways fromour conversation today is that
being okay can look so manydifferent ways and it doesn't
diminish the effects ofsomething like educational
neglect or missed opportunities,or let me rephrase that Not
missed opportunities, deniedopportunities, right, but
(50:25):
knowing that our dreams arestill worth pursuing, even if
their fulfillment might lookdifferently than we first
expected, is so important.
So thank you so much, rebecca,for sharing a glimpse into your
life, and thank you all forlistening, and we'll be back
soon, sooner if we can nail apodcast on the first recording
(50:52):
one of these days.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Hey who knows?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Catch you later, take care.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.
What are?
Speaker 1 (51:20):
your thoughts about college and recovery from high
demand religion.
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences and we
want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atUncoveredbeyond at gmailcom.
That's uncoveredlifebeyond atgmailcom.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Stay brave, stay bold , stay awkward.
This is Rebecca and this is Naomi.
We're 40-something moms andfirst cousins who know what it's
like to veer off the pathassigned to us.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We've juggled motherhood, marriage, college
and career, as we questioned ourfaith traditions while
exploring new identities andways of seeing the world.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Without any maps for either of us to follow.
We've had to figure things outas we go and appreciate that
detours and dead ends areessential to the path.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Along the way, we've uncovered a few insights we want
to share with fellow travelers.
We want to talk about thequestions we didn't know who to
ask and the options we didn'tknow we had.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So whether you're feeling stuck or already shaking
things up, we are here to cheeryou on and assure you that the
best is yet to come.
Welcome to Uncovered LifeBeyond.
(01:16):
This is Naomi.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
And this is Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So today we're going to get to hear all about how
starting college and midlife hasshifted things for you, rebecca
, on a day-to-day level.
I think you know, for myselfand for lots of us who are the
first in our families to go tocollege, it's hard to know what
to expect, like you know, interms of what's going to change
day-to-day.
And if you've got dependents,you've got family depending on
you to be the primary caregiverand you're considering going to
(01:50):
college, there's this whole.
There's a sense of uncertaintyabout how making this change in
our life is going to affectothers, and not just in the big
picture, but also day to day,and so it's hard to know.
Is this something that couldfit into my life or is this
going to cause so much chaos?
So thank you for agreeing to dothis.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I know how it is to kind ofworry about things you don't
know about, right Well, when youaren't sure what to worry about
.
Someone tell me what I shouldbe most concerned about, Right?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
exactly.
I remember when I had I'dfinished undergrad, I was
thinking about grad school andlike I was just trying to get a
feel for like what is differentabout the experience of grad
school and I could not get astraight answer from the handful
of people I had access to atthe time.
So I just had to you know, Ijust had to dive in and figure
(02:46):
it out as I went and pretend Iknew what I was doing.
I think for any of us there arethings we are concerned about
and then turn out not to be anissue, turns out to be a piece
of cake.
There's always the plot twists,and hearing what others have
experienced can kind of give usa sense of whether something is
(03:07):
maybe doable for us or whetherit's something we need to
realistically hold off on for awhile.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Sure, yeah, and I think sometimes the unknown is
what can trip us up the most,and sometimes it's kind of like,
okay, well, if someone else cando that, I probably can figure
it out too.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right, right, well, and I also think about it that
if you come from a background ofeducational neglect, it's
probably a background thathasn't really valued education,
formal education, and so I meanwe grew up with lots of warnings
about college, you know.
And so if you don't know muchabout it and all you have to go
(03:51):
on is warnings, you know as faras what the experience is like,
then yeah, you're not reallyworking.
You're probably not workingwith accurate information.
That's not good information tomake decisions off of Absolutely
.
All right, so let's give this ago.
And true confessions.
We recorded a ton of contentyesterday and then we ended the
(04:14):
call and I started editing andrealized I had not turned my mic
on, so we decided to get upearly this morning, monday
morning, and give it anothershot.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And it's the first day back to school for both of
us, so we're winning.
We're winning.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
We've got our coffee.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
We've got our coffee.
We've got to go on.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
It's a step in the right direction.
That's right.
So I think the way we'llstructure this conversation is
breaking it down into a day inthe life, and we'll break it
down into like five sections.
So we've got early morning,late morning, early afternoon,
late afternoon and evening, andwhat I'd love to hear are the
(04:57):
ways that being a studentshifted those routines in your
family's life, in your life, andwhat that's been like for you.
And I should say for background,that you've been the primary
caregiver in your household andthat's been probably a central
(05:19):
role for most of your life, formost of your time as a mother,
and I think it's important forour listeners to know that you
have also been running abusiness during this time a very
successful one, I might add andyou've also been working
outside the home.
And also you are the personthat so many people come to when
(05:40):
they are in a crisis, and soyou're an unofficial one-stop
shop for recent immigrants, forpeople who find them, maybe
young girls who need a place tostay because they can't live at
home anymore All kinds ofsituations that you've stepped
in on a voluntary basis to helpfolks out.
(06:02):
So it's not just that you wentfrom taking care of your own
house to including college, butyou're including college on top
of all these other things.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And that's probably a large reason that it's taking
me as long as it is, and whileI'm kind of reaching the point
where I am over it, at the sametime I'm grateful that I've been
able to do what I've been doing.
When I first started, the twinswould have been freshmen and
Chase would have been in fourthgrade and we had conversations
(06:36):
about how things would changeand I would need more help.
And they were fabulous.
My family really was fabulousabout it.
Something that I I don't knowmagically kind of fell upon was,
instead of having specificchores everyone had to do, I
would make lists of what neededto be done and everyone would
get to pick what they wanted todo, and it felt like that kind
(06:58):
of gave them some control.
They also saw me studying.
They saw me always kind ofdoing homework in between
everything else and it seemedlike they were proud to be a
part of that.
And I think it's easy to worryabout maybe the mom guilt and
not having put your family first.
(07:20):
I think it's good for your kidsto see you working towards
something that kind of redeems apart of your life and it gives
them an awareness of what theyhave.
I'll never forget one day Ipicked them up at school, front
seat, looks at the floor andshe's like what's going on here?
(07:52):
And it was like littered withtissues and I was like, well, I
had my own bad day and it was aday where I realized how much I
did miss in math and how farbehind I was and I was really
struggling.
And I just told them that andthey absolutely immediately were
like well, here, I know thatstuff and they tutored me
(08:12):
through it.
They really did.
Yeah, so it's been really neatto.
It's been really cool.
It's been really affirming towatch my family jump in.
Matt tended to do more of themeal planning not always, but
often If there was meal planninghe did it and, yeah, my family
(08:33):
absolutely jumped in.
It helps.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Wow, that's wonderful , and what I'm hearing you say
there is like you gave yourfamily, your kids, more
ownership, or gave them anopportunity for ownership by
letting them choose what theywanted to do instead of you
telling them.
But then also that scene in thecar oh my goodness, that is
such a touching scene and Ithink about what that's modeling
(08:56):
for your kids in terms ofresilience, in terms of what is
possible with midlife pivots andreally getting through a tough
time.
Those are incredible lifelessons.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
It's kind of tricky knowing how much grief to expose
your kids to how much personalgrief, because I don't want them
to carry my stuff and it wasn'tplanned.
I never thought about the factthat I should maybe clean up my
tissues before I pick them up,probably because I didn't have
time, that I should maybe cleanup my tissues before I pick them
up, probably because I didn'thave time.
But yeah, it's kind ofinteresting how some of that
(09:31):
stuff kind of plays out the wayit needs to and it's redemptive
moments.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
So.
Let's talk about the differentparts of your day, then, and
what that looks like Earlymorning.
What does that look like atyour house?
Is it a quiet coffee andcontemplation kind of scene, or
are you cranking up the tunes towake everybody up?
(09:55):
What is your life like, and howhas that changed since you've
brought college as a thing ontoyour plate?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So what changed the most probably for me was I get
up a little bit earlier.
I tend to get up between 5.30and 6 o'clock and I'm more of a
quiet coffee and blumblingaround the place first thing in
the morning.
But I tend to try to get up andkind of work on some homework
(10:25):
first thing.
I feel like my brain works thebest then and it's quiet and so
I want to take advantage of that.
So I try to get about two hoursof that in before my morning
really starts going, before thekids start getting up, and that
again has changed a bit in thelast several years.
(10:45):
There's a little girl I takecare of and so she usually comes
around 730.
So I'm kind of trying to figureout how to work my school
schedule into that.
But I do have another friendwho takes her some mornings just
so I can have that routine, andthat's been helpful as well,
and I think maybe that's part ofthe deal.
(11:06):
What worked when I was firststarting school has kind of
changed.
I now have kids in college, butnow I also have a second grader
I'm taking care of.
So things keep shifting andchanging but it doesn't hit for
all of us.
I mean, that's nothing new.
That's nothing new.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
That reminds me of something I heard recently that,
when it comes to productivityand this kind of thing, so often
all the how-to books aretelling us how to keep a
schedule, but the reality ofmost of our lives as caregivers
is that we need more skillsaround pivoting and about how to
do that, how to shift gears,and I'm really glad you made
(11:49):
that point.
But what I'm hearing you say isthat when you started college,
the twins were in high school orfinishing high school and
starting college, and thenthey've been off to college the
last few years, and so I canimagine that just having fewer
people wandering around thehouse in the morning, even if
you're not actively getting themready for school the way you
(12:10):
would have years ago, rightright, makes a difference.
It makes a difference.
And then having a second gradermakes a difference, and then
you take her to school, is thatright?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, she doesn't know English real well and I
don't know I feel kind of badputting her on the bus.
I'm like I don't need to dothat so and it's not schools
really close to where we live,so I just run her up to school
real quick, it's yeah that'sreally sweet.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, I'm sure she and her mom appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well, you know they'd find me if I lived in their
country as well.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
That's what we hope, right?
So shifting gears then to whata late morning might look like
when the morning rush is over.
What does a late morning looklike for you these days?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know, it kind of varies a little bit depending on
what day of the week it is.
I've realized I tend to kind ofcategorize what happens on
specific days of the week almostmore.
Monday and Tuesdays tend to bemy heavy schoolwork days.
That's kind of when I work onmy business stuff mostly.
(13:19):
And I mean like, if anyonecares, thursdays are the days I
water my plants, but thenWednesdays I work, and often
either Thursday or Friday I work.
Some weeks I work both Thursdayand Friday, but often it's one
of the two.
So it kind of depends a littlebit.
(13:39):
You know what day of the week itis and what my work schedule is
.
But late mornings tend to bewhen I kind of throw in laundry
and get a load of laundrystarted.
And on Monday and Tuesdays Imight work on homework but I
might also kind of try and getsome of my orders put together.
(14:00):
And also I find myself making alot of doctor's appointments
and phone calls those days inthe morning, simply because I
know I need to get that takencare of too.
And mornings tend to be easierIf I'm working.
I usually leave their housearound 1030, 11 o'clock and
often what I try to do is if Ihave something I need to take to
(14:24):
the bank or something I need todrop off or something even that
I might need to pick up.
I just throw all that, andmaybe a note for a reminder, in
a basket.
I know that, okay, I need tomake these stops and it makes it
a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
There's less forgetting that happens and I
can kind of remember what'sgoing on and what I need to get
taken care of.
I love that.
It's like you're putting,you're giving yourself less to
remember.
Yeah Right, because it's rightthere in the basket.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I love that idea.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So do you want to talk a little bit about what
school has looked like for youat different times, in terms of
attending class on a campus orcourses at home, online courses,
that you meet online with agroup or that it's all
asynchronous.
You just kind of turn in yourwork and you work independently.
(15:21):
What does that look like andhow does that affect your days?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
My classes all started out in person and on
campus, and how it works is itkind of depends on what your
credit hour is for the class andhow long the class takes.
If I'm remembering correctly, Ithink my class has always met
either Monday, wednesday orTuesday, thursday and that was
(15:50):
kind of nice because I kind ofhad the set schedule and
typically you go to class andyou can expect to be in the
class for about an hour and 15minutes.
If you're having that type ofschedule the Monday Wednesday,
the Tuesday Thursday scheduleFor the higher credit hours I
(16:15):
think those might have gone alittle longer.
If I'm remembering correctly, Ithink some of the classes I was
in class for an hour and a half.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Does that sound right ?
I could see that, especially ifthey're maybe a four hour, four
credit hour course.
Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I think it might have gone a little bit longer, and
typically, if that happened, theprofessor would give us a break
in between.
Does that mean, then, that youwere on campus four days a week?
(17:09):
I just couldn't do it, and so Itried to juggle classes that
might be more back to back oreven a class that might have a
45 minute wait period in between.
But I was prepared then to dohomework or make those doctor
phone calls then and tried tomake sure that when I was on
campus I was using that timewisely.
You can always find spots inthe library or lounges where you
(17:32):
could hang out and work, and ofcourse I always tried to find
little corners where no one wassitting so that I could have the
world to myself.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right.
So when we're talking aboutthree credit courses, four
credit courses, that determinesthe amount of time that you'll
spend in the classroom, right,right.
But I think when we're talkingabout what this looks like at
the college level, then I thinkit's important to remember that
(18:08):
the expectation is thatexpectations of homework I mean,
it's not that it's, it's notthat the expectations of
(18:29):
homework are new, but, like, theextent of what's expected, the
substance of the homework, Ithink, takes them many of them,
by surprise at the college level, because they're maybe used to
something just being kind of.
Maybe they just kind of have to, maybe it's reviewing something
they talked about in class, orthey just kind of.
(18:50):
I'm guessing this is true foryou, because this is certainly
true for my experience that it'sabout setting you up in class
to then spend two to three timesthe time you've spent in class
doing homework.
And homework is not just reviewusually, but it's learning,
it's applying things you'velearned about in class.
(19:12):
Writing papers, writing paperswhich takes a ton of creativity,
Like what's expected is notjust writing things stream of
consciousness or kind of.
Here's what I think about this,you know, opinion papers.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
You've got to go look up information, and and so what
that means is, if I spent, likeon a Monday, wednesday, if I
spent two hours in classes, theadvice is that I can expect to
spend between four to six hourseach day doing additional
homework.
I think that's a generous rule,and maybe I shouldn't say that
(19:52):
I'm pretty sure I don't spendthat much time doing homework.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You and lots of other folks.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
But at the same time, you know, it's kind of hard to
measure that, because if I'mgetting up mornings, yeah, it
adds up it does add up.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
And I wonder if you find that some weeks you spend
more time on it than others.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
That would be absolutely true.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
I've often wondered how muchCOVID changed my experience and
how much of it would havehappened anyway.
How much COVID changed myexperience and how much of it
would have happened anyway.
But obviously, at COVID we wentto more online classes and even
then those met at specifictimes primarily, and I was glad
(20:36):
for that time.
I was glad that when they madethe shift they still tried to
meet online because I felt likethe, even though it was a
virtual, you still had thoseconnections.
One of my favorite professorswas during COVID and it was
completely online.
But the more time passes andthe more and I don't know
(21:00):
whether it's the more advancedmy classes are or if it's just
kind of the way the ship issailing they tend to be
asynchronous and which meansthey give you the work to do and
you just do whatever you needto do it and typically there's
no face-to-face communication.
Oftentimes the professors willput up like conversation boards
(21:23):
and you have to engage inconversation throughout the week
, but not always.
I've had classes where thatwasn't even happening and
sometimes the students have toengage, but the professor never
engages.
For that you can probably tellme more than I even know.
(21:46):
But my guess is I think collegesfind that this saves them a lot
of money and I think they throwa lot of classes at professors.
So I think a lot of theprofessors are overworked.
But I will admit that theasynchronous classes are
difficult for me.
If I wouldn't be committed, Iwould probably.
I can see why people would quit, right.
Right, it's got some triggeringelements of the whole CLE, bce.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Study carols.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, and it's the sense of oh my goodness, here I
am alone again.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
But I've also had professors who have.
Actually, it was one professorand at the beginning of the
semester she sent out individualquestionnaires and I remember
her one question being tell mewhat you feel might be your
major-.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Challenge barrier.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah at achieving or completing this class, and I
really appreciated that becauseit kind of at least made you
feel like you were beinghumanized and that she wanted to
be intentional on beingproactive and I felt like those
types of connections really dohelp.
(22:58):
So I think people are tryingmostly.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So I think people are trying mostly Right.
Yeah, I think you're rightabout some schools, a lot of
schools, seeing onlineinstruction as a way that they
don't have to pay for classroomspace.
But the thing is for those ofus teaching those classes and I
just had a taste of it duringCOVID but it feels to us like it
(23:25):
takes more time and effort thanan in-person class and I don't
know how much of that is actualtime and effort and how much of
it is just kind of the.
When you don't have that socialreward of face-to-face
interaction, then it makes itfeel more taxing.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, I can't believe that the completion rate is
good, which would also have tobe frustrating for a professor.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
It's bad and I don't know back it's been over 10
years now.
It was while I was in gradschool.
There was a lot of talk ofMOOCs, massive open online
courses, and these are coursesthat were being offered by big
universities.
It's a handful of well, no, I'mnot even sure if it's
(24:16):
universities, maybe it's justprivate entities but the idea
was that you could go and study,you could take a course with
this famous scholar of this andthis expert in this or this area
, and there were fears that thiswas totally going to devastate
higher education and we were allgoing to graduate, we're all
going to finish grad school, andthere'd be no jobs.
(24:38):
There's still didn't have a lotof jobs, but it wasn't as bad
as as as some predicted, and abig part of it was that the
completion rates on those MOOCs,on those massive open online
courses, were was was justabysmal, and I think that
probably the thought is well,people aren't paying money, they
aren't invested, and so maybebecause I've also taught so
(25:01):
during COVID I taught a coupleof composition, so first year
composition courses online andafter doing that a couple of
times, I didn't feel I couldethically offer that again
because of the completion rate.
And these were students who weregoing to be on the hook for
that tuition and they were goingto be every bit as much on the
(25:24):
hook, whether they finished thecourse or not, because they
weren't dropping it early on,they were just getting.
Life was happening.
And I guess my other concern isthat I can imagine someone a
well-intentioned onlooker mightsay well, oh, if you can take
college classes at home on thecomputer, then you can just keep
(25:47):
being the primary caregiver andjust do it on top of all the
other things you're doing.
And I just want to say, no, itdoesn't work that way.
You've got to have dedicatedtime, because caregiving is a
job all on its own Right anddoing the kind of intellectual
(26:08):
work that schoolwork is going toexpect of you is takes your
full attention to.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, and I would also throw out the suggestion
that, be aware, even if you're aparent sending your kid to
college, my one kid has two ofthese classes asynchronous
classes this semester and justfrom previous experience I know
(26:35):
that I have to keep asking aboutit because it's really
difficult for them to stayengaged and in some ways, as
much as I hate it, cle probablyprepared me for this so that I'm
better at it.
So know yourself and know yourkids.
(26:56):
It's not ideal, but I also knowthat at this point in my life
it's not going to happen anyother way, and so it's a suck it
up buttercup type of Well, wejust got to get you into grad
school.
You keep talking about this gradschool thing.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And then you'll be and then, especially if it's
Well, some of those are onlinetoo, but I think you'll have a
much greater chance of aninteractive experience.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, especially if it's face to face classes.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so that was late morning.
Let's talk about what yourearly afternoons look like.
So let's say, after lunch Iimagine this depends on which
day of the week it is, butanything in particular that
shifted for you during that partof the day, or maybe has
(27:49):
shifted multiple times.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, so something I do fairly consistently early
afternoon, and especially when Iget up that early.
And I had never really thoughtabout it this way.
But several years ago there wasan Amish girl living with us
and somewhere in theconversation she made a comment
about her mom.
(28:11):
And her mom is one of thoseAmish women who work circles
around the best of us.
She's the epitome of hot shafi.
I mean, everything is spotless,everything is taken care of,
but this girl just kind of likesnorted and she's like you know
my mom took a nap or read a bookfor an hour every day.
(28:34):
She always said those men getto take an hour off.
I can too, and I had neverthought about it that way before
.
But it kind of shifted somethingin my brain and so if I'm home
in the early afternoon and itmight even just be 30 minutes,
but I really make an effort totake a nap.
(28:55):
Taking a nap for me feels likea guilty pleasure.
Whether I really need it or notdoesn't matter.
My couch sits where, like, thesun shines in through the window
, and I like to time it so thatthe sun's shining in and you can
kind of soak it up.
But even if I don't do that.
I might read a book or I might,you know, whatever it is that
(29:20):
feels like a treat.
I allow myself to do that and Idon't really care what else is
going on.
I try really hard to give spacefor it, because I think it's
easy for many of us to feel likeour value is based on what gets
(29:42):
done and what if I'm deserving,just because I'm deserving.
So I really make an effort todo that when I'm at home.
If I'm not working, if I'm athome early afternoon, I usually
kind of start thinking aboutdinner and I tend to do probably
(30:02):
one or two crockpot thingies aweek, and that varies a little
bit.
But of course if I do that I'mgoing to start that a little bit
earlier in the day.
But that's when I get seriousabout laundry or cleaning stuff
up.
But yeah, typically that earlyafternoon is when I shift from
(30:23):
schoolwork or even businessstuff to taking care of
household chores.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Okay, okay, I love what you said about.
Oh, hang on, we've got all thealarms going off here, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Outside or like the emergency alarms.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
No, no, wake up alarms.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, oh, gotcha, gotcha emergency alarms.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
No, no, wake up alarms.
Yeah, oh, gotcha, gotcha.
I love what you were sayingabout the importance of rest or
recreation, you know, whateverform that might take, because I
think it's easy for us to thinkof it as a reward, but the
reality is it's fuel for us todo the things that we want to do
and need to do.
It's a necessary luxury.
(31:05):
If it is a luxury, yeah,absolutely so.
Then, in early afternoon, asyou're shifting your attention
more to household things, whathas your late afternoon looked
like?
Has there been a lot ofchauffeuring kids to activities,
getting people where they needto be?
(31:26):
What part does dinner play?
Do you have like a big sit downdinner every night, or how has
that changed over time as well?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
So when I would have started school, the twins would
have been in dance.
Chase has always been in soccer, dance Chase has always been in
soccer.
So, yeah, there's always a lotof schedules and making sure
that everyone gets to where theyneed to be.
So I typically I primarily cookfrom scratch.
Like you know, a home cookedmeal typically.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I feel like you're mocking my bread.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I'm not, I'm not not at all.
I kind of have a self-imposedbread ban in my house because it
makes me fluffy and I can'tstop once I start.
But your bread makes it throughthe ban.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
So I am proud.
One thing that I have found islike if I make a pot of chili
soup, I'm going to make a bigenough batch so that I can
freeze half of it.
Or if I make lasagna, I freezeat least one pan, if not two, if
(32:45):
not two.
And I learned pretty quickly Ineed to do that type of thing to
stay on top of stuff, becauseit allows you just to kind of
pull something out real quickand you have it.
And again that has kind ofshifted as the twins went to
college.
These days I every so oftenthrow Chase a 20 and tell him to
find himself some food.
And there's a certain amount ofmom guilt that I had to kind of
get over.
(33:06):
But I realized, like he reallydoes not mind, right, who would
what teen, what teen would?
But the other thing is, I mean,when he goes to college he's
going to have to know how tofigure out how to eat anyway and
what to eat.
So in some ways I don't know, Ihave kind of dropped the guilt
(33:30):
and I'm like man, it's what itis, and I think it's so easy to
get caught up in this.
Know, everything has to be fromscratch or whatever the gig is.
Whatever the gig is, and while Istill kind of lean that way,
(33:54):
I'm finding that, at the end ofthe day, as long as we're fed,
that's kind of what's important.
As long as we're loved, that'swhat's important.
And I don't need to what's theterm you always use.
I don't have to light myself onfire to keep everyone else warm
.
People are able to light theirown fires too, and I try to
(34:19):
absolutely make sure my kids arefed.
I mean my kids.
You'll get a kick out of this.
The twins decided they neededapplesauce at college.
Of all the things, applesaucewas a thing that we had to can.
It had to be homemade.
And they literally take cannedjars of applesauce to college.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's precious.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
That is precious.
Well, the one kid was sittingin the dining hall and she said
I was eating pot pie.
And I looked around my tableand I said does anyone else feel
like we need applesauce withthis?
And she said they all looked atme and blinked and I'm like, oh
my child, you're so Amish, Iknow, I know, but now applesauce
(35:03):
is their gut, their thing.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
That's so funny.
That's so funny Because wedon't need a ton of applesauce
around here.
But now that you say that, likethe thought of like Yamazeti or
some kind of casserole, andapplesauce is like peanut butter
and jelly, so yeah, absolutely,that's great.
So did you make family dinnersa priority when everyone was
(35:32):
still living at home?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The juggle was too much.
At that point Matt was workingabout 20 minutes from here and
he often worked until 530.
So often he didn't get hometill six o'clock and the kids
needed to be wherever they weregoing well before six o'clock.
So no, we just kind of ate aswe dribbled into the house and
as the schedule allowed.
(35:56):
Around here the high schoolkids get home an hour before
elementary kids do, beforeelementary kids do, so sometimes
the twins would eat and go totheir dance or whatever, almost
(36:16):
before Chase even got home.
So we absolutely ate in shifts.
And you know, I know, growingup, this whole thing of you know
having the family meal was likethis, seemingly foundation of a
quote good family.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Right, yeah, you hear that even now.
It's the kind of this marker ofwhether you're functioning as a
family correctly.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, yeah and I just disagree.
I mean yeah, yeah and I justdisagree.
I mean, a few years ago, thepopular saying was breast is
best when it came to nursing orfeeding your infant.
And I was always like no fed isbest, like, what?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, the prescriptiveness of it, like it
has to happen this way to beright, without any sense of what
the context is or anysensitivity to what's going on
or what the options are, if youdon't what the alternatives are.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And at first I kind of tied myself in knots trying
to make this family dinner thingwork and I realized it's
ridiculous.
The kids come home from school,they're hungry.
Matt doesn't get home from workuntil six.
Why should they wait for two orthree hours hungry when there's
so many other things that Ithink are so much more important
(37:39):
?
Are they safe, are they loved,are they heard, are they seen?
So I don't know.
I guess I push back a littlebit on the whole family dinner
thing.
Now, usually about once aweekend we'll have maybe a big
brunch or you know, I don't know, we might get pizza or whatever
(38:02):
it is.
But I guess I wonder a littlebit about the whole notion of
the family dinner, Like why havewe made that?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
the perceived marker, yeah Indicator, like why was?
Speaker 2 (38:19):
it that?
Why was it that?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Mm-hmm.
No, I agree, I agree, and Ithink those kinds of things can
be sentimentalized and thenweaponized against moms when
they dare do something for theirown benefit.
And, like you said, the realityis that the kids are better off
(38:41):
having their needs met, youknow, eating when they're hungry
, rather than being hangry for acouple of hours.
I mean, how's that going tohelp nurture a strong family
dynamic?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Right and face it.
We've all had nights wherefamily dinner was in the car,
sure Like.
So what are we going to do?
Not eat because we can't havethis perfect scenario?
What are we going to do Not eatbecause we can't have this
perfect scenario?
And I feel like I think we needto be really aware of these
measures of perfection thatwe're given and in that
perfection there can be a lot ofdysfunction.
(39:16):
So just because you hit thatand I think sometimes attempting
to hit it causes somedysfunction, so maybe sometimes
attempting to hit it causes somedysfunction.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
So maybe no, I agree.
It's like if you make thefamily dinner the pinnacle or
the foundation of health in yourfamily, but relationships are
frayed, people's individuals'needs are overlooked and
minimized, like the familydinner is nothing.
It's just a performance.
And yeah, I agree, we shouldn'tspend too much time feeling
(39:52):
guilty about letting go of aperformance.
Absolutely yeah absolutely.
So evening.
What does your evening usuallylook like?
Are you usually relaxing,watching TV, drinking tea and
reading a book, socializing?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
So in the evening I tend to sort of try to plan
tomorrow.
I kind of try to know what'scoming up.
I might have conversations withMatt about hey, I'm working,
but this kid needs to go to thedoctor, are you still good, or
you know whatever?
Whatever it might be, and justmake sure everyone's on the same
page.
My kids never like surprisesand I think maybe that's part of
(40:37):
the reason I did this as well,because then I would have
conversations with them hey, I'mgoing to be working and your
dad's not going to be working,and your dad's not going to be
home until five, but he knows heneeds to take you to dance.
So that way they were assuredthat everyone knew where they
needed to be.
(40:57):
I tell them where the food is,or whatever, but that way
everyone's assured that theirschedules matter, that we know
what's going on, that we'regoing to be there.
And it took some of the anxietyaway.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Sure, it also probably helped them to be more
independent too, yeah, yeah,having a sense of oh, here's
what's going to happen, insteadof everything magically
appearing Right, right, yeah,yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
For sure.
Typically and again thischanged throughout the years I
might kind of look at homeworkand just kind of make sure that
I didn't miss any deadlines.
I am finding out that I don'tdo so good with the unwinding,
or intentional unwinding in theevening.
Usually it's more of a crashlanding in bed and being like,
oh my God, we made it.
As the kids got older, thatchanged somewhat.
(41:54):
These days, man, I like beingin bed by 9.30, 10 o'clock.
That's happiness and it doesn'tnecessarily happen always.
Everyone in my family, exceptfor me, tends to be a night owl,
and I remember the kids were inhigh school and they and Matt
were doing their thing and it'slike 10 o'clock and I'm like,
(42:17):
man, you guys, I'm tired, I'mgoing to bed.
And I remember the first time Idid that I couldn't believe I
wasn't like you know, tucking mykids in bed, making sure
everyone was in bed.
But you know what?
That's not something I have tocontrol, like, at some level, at
some point they can go to bedtoo, and I didn't do that every
night, but there were nights.
(42:37):
I absolutely did that and Ithink again, it goes back to, of
course, ensuring your kids aretaken care of, but it's also
okay to take care of yourself,and we have a firm rule at our
house of yourself, and we have afirm rule at our house no
important decisions get madeafter eight o'clock, like,
unless you are bleeding andabout to die, we won't even take
(42:58):
you to the emergency room.
That's not quite true, but wejust don't make important
decisions after eight o'clock.
We're all tired, it might feeloverwhelming and scary, but
let's go to bed, let's sleep onit and tomorrow morning we'll
figure it out.
(43:18):
And I am a huge believer inthat logic, because trying to
figure things out at 10 o'clockhas kept me awake until two
o'clock far too often.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Right, and then your energy has sapped the rest of
the next.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, and so I just tell myself, I tell the kids you
know what?
We don't need to deal with it.
We don't need to deal with it.
We can take care of thattomorrow.
That's a tomorrow project, andI've found I think we all sleep
better that way.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Absolutely, and then start the day fresh Right,
absolutely.
And then start the day freshRight the next day.
Yeah, so when you look back andthink about your younger self
in these different stages oflife so single adult and then
before marriage, and then aftermarriage, no kids, and then
(44:08):
after kids what is some of theadvice you would give your
younger self, or maybe somebodywho is in those stages who are
considering college but not sureif the time is right, if it's
the thing to do.
Maybe instead of college, it'stime to prepare in some way, but
(44:30):
what?
Or maybe it's not college,maybe it's some other dream.
What advice would you give youryounger self about pursuing
those dreams?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
When I think about myself as a single adult, I've
started giving her a lot moregrace and even affirmation.
These days I'm kind ofimpressed she survived.
Mm-hmm.
Affirmation.
These days I'm kind ofimpressed she survived.
And while there's a part of methat wonders why didn't you go
(44:59):
to college, she was doing good,just paying for rent.
And I think the only advice Iwould give her was the people
you're trying to impress willnever be impressed.
Let them go, just let them go.
Be yourself, and it's not yourjob.
It's not your job to impresspeople.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
There's some people you can never gain approval from
and don't put mental energytowards that, just don't.
Most of the people Idesperately tried to impress
back then I'm not in arelationship with today and I
also think about the pressure weput on other people.
(45:43):
So I think about myself.
Are there people in my life whoare desperately trying to earn
my approval, and what am I goingto do with that?
So I try to kind of be aware ofthat, because I think we do
that to people and I would liketo suggest we are careful about
that.
I do wish after I got married Iwould have pursued education a
(46:04):
bit more.
In many ways, that would havebeen the perfect time to start
my education.
We were married for six yearsbefore we had kids, and that was
intentional.
I didn't want to be poor mywhole life, and so the goal was
to earn us money for a soliddown payment on our house, which
(46:25):
we did, and it was fun just tohave that space and time where I
was responsible for me and itwas me.
But that would have, inhindsight, that would have kind
of been a really magical timefor college, and I think the
advice I would give myself nowis you don't have to get other
people's permission.
(46:45):
I think we unconsciously maybeeven wait on other people's
permission and we need to stopdoing that.
Unfortunately, the people in mylife who I was kind of looking
for permission from had been incollege and I kind of got the
feedback or the message that Iprobably wasn't smart enough for
(47:07):
it, which and again, that wasmy perceived message whether it
was intentional or not, whoknows but I wish I wouldn't have
doubted myself so much and Iwish I would have just done it.
It's kind of amazing whathappens if you just do what you
know you need to do instead ofasking for permission all the
(47:28):
time.
100%.
People are okay, married withyoung kids.
When my kids were little, I amglad that I didn't try to do
college then, I don't know.
There's times I really grievethat I'm as old as I am and just
finishing, but I think evenmore than that, I'm grateful
(47:49):
that I had the experience I didwith my kids when they were
younger.
I was building my business thenand I can tend to be quite
competitive and driven.
I guess at times my kids haveinformed me Just a little bit,
which is funny.
I never considered myselfcompetitive and my kids all
snored at me and Matt was in theconversation too and they're
(48:10):
like you are the mostcompetitive person in this
family and I'm like, really Me.
So no, I really don't thinkwhen the kids were young,
starting school would have beensmart and I feel bad saying that
it might work perfectly forsomeone else.
I don't know that mentally Iwould have been able to navigate
(48:31):
all the demands.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Especially when you were the mother of twins.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, I had four kids or so sorry, I had
three kids in four years.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
And it just wouldn't have been good.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I think now that the kids are older and we're where
we're at, I have so muchgratitude and appreciation for
the love, support and evenforgiveness that we get from our
kids and the relationships thatwe have, and I guess I credit a
(49:11):
lot of that to therelationships we built when they
were young.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
And I'm not so sure that would have happened if I'd
have been trying to jugglecollege.
And I think the thing that Itell myself when I get
overwhelmed or even when I'm inthe middle of grief these days,
which happens this past week,has kind of been a lesson in
managing anxiety, again forvarious reasons.
(49:36):
But at the end of the day, Iknow who I am.
At the end of the day, I knowwhat I want out of life.
Mostly.
I'm still not sure if I wentgrad school, but we're talking
about it.
I think maybe the most powerfulpart of it is, I trust, the
process.
I don't have to know exactlyexactly what is going to happen,
(49:59):
but I know we're going to beokay and for that alone I am so
grateful.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Absolutely, and I think that's maybe one of the
most important takeaways fromour conversation today is that
being okay can look so manydifferent ways and it doesn't
diminish the effects ofsomething like educational
neglect or missed opportunities,or let me rephrase that Not
missed opportunities, deniedopportunities, right, but
(50:25):
knowing that our dreams arestill worth pursuing, even if
their fulfillment might lookdifferently than we first
expected, is so important.
So thank you so much, rebecca,for sharing a glimpse into your
life, and thank you all forlistening, and we'll be back
soon, sooner if we can nail apodcast on the first recording
(50:52):
one of these days.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Hey who knows?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Catch you later, take care.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Thank you for spending time with us today.
The resources and materialswe've mentioned are linked in
the show notes and on Facebookat Uncovered Life Beyond.
What are?
Speaker 1 (51:20):
your thoughts about college and recovery from high
demand religion.
We know you have your ownquestions and experiences and we
want to talk about the topicsthat matter to you.
Share them with us atUncoveredbeyond at gmailcom.
That's uncoveredlifebeyond atgmailcom.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
If you enjoyed today's show and found value in
it, please rate and review it onyour favorite podcast app.
This helps others find the showWhile you're there.
Subscribe to our podcast so younever miss an episode Until
next time.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Stay brave, stay bold , stay awkward.
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