April 18, 2024 • 46 mins
The Male Experience of "online dating" with our special guest Diego! Tune in, listen, and learn from our special guest as he shares his personal experiences with some of their favorite and not so favorite dating apps!
UNF*CK online dating friends in order to keep your mental health in check and find what it is your seeking with psychotherapist and published author Anita Astley and co-host Ryan Rosmann . The conversation is always raw, real, informative, educational and entertaining!
Support the Show.Follow Anita Astley, M.ED. LMFT psychotherapist and author, at ask_anita_astley and on Instagram, Facebook, ask Anita Astley on YOUTUBE, ask Anita Astley on twitter. Check out Anita's website at www.askanitaastley.com
Order your copy of Anita' Astley's book today on Amazon
"Unf*ck Your Life and Relationships"
https://www.amazon.com/Unf-Your-Life-Relationships-Lessons/dp/1637631235
UNF*CK online dating friends in order to keep your mental health in check and find what it is your seeking with psychotherapist and published author Anita Astley and co-host Ryan Rosmann . The conversation is always raw, real, informative, educational and entertaining!
Support the Show.Follow Anita Astley, M.ED. LMFT psychotherapist and author, at ask_anita_astley and on Instagram, Facebook, ask Anita Astley on YOUTUBE, ask Anita Astley on twitter. Check out Anita's website at www.askanitaastley.com
Order your copy of Anita' Astley's book today on Amazon
"Unf*ck Your Life and Relationships"
https://www.amazon.com/Unf-Your-Life-Relationships-Lessons/dp/1637631235
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to What Fucked Your Life andRelationships with Anita Ashley, psycho therapist and
author, and Ryan Rossman, recordingstudio owner and music producer. This is
a podcast like no other. Sitforward, listen in, and get ready
to get unfucked from the inside out. Odd fuck your life, Odd fuck
(00:28):
your Life. Hey, guys,welcome to another session of Unfuck Your Life
and Relationships. I'm your host,Anita Astley, and I'm in studio with
Ryan post Hi. I haven't seenhim in a while. Yeah, today
we are going to be talking about, as promised, the male experience of
online dating and other stuff. Wehave Diego in the house. Diego usually
(00:52):
works the audio stuff and stuff,but today he's in the hot seat because
he's been here for the conversations we'vehad with the women men, and he's
kind of chiming in in the background. I'm like, okay, dude,
I know we need to get themale experience, but we want to get
your experience. So here we go. Diego, Welcome to the show.
Now you're appreciate it. Yeah,so tell us a little bit about yourself.
(01:17):
Oh my name is Diego, likeyou guys heard sometimes already, and
I work here at high five.I'm an intern and I run a lot
of the sound here. Uh huh. That's basically that's a little quick,
quick thing about me. Okay,but so wait, how old are you?
I'm twenty twenty. He's just ababy. But it's important to get
(01:38):
this perspective because we've been talking toolder generation, you know, myself actually,
and then you've been here throughout theconversations when we had the women on
and I you know, and you'vebeen you know, manning the digital stuff
back. But then I thought,okay, I see him smirking, I
see him laughing. We got soplease tell us a little bit about your
(02:02):
dating experience online? Oh online?Okay. Well I didn't really do like
start dating like online until probably likelike after my senior year of high school.
Okay, and even then or evennow, I don't really do much
(02:23):
like online dating. You know.I have the tender you know, that
kind of thing, but it doesn'treally go anywhere. I'm more of like
I like to meet people first beforeI like want to you know, want
to say like, oh I wantto go on a date with them,
you know. Okay, So that'susually how it's been for me. Usually
like I used to be a musicians, So you know, like if I
go out to a gig and i'dmeet a girl, okay, I take
(02:45):
her out to dinner after or somethinglike that. You know, that's that's
how it usually starts. But soyou're are you So then I would think
you're atypical because I think from whatI've read and some people that I've talked
to, most people of your agegeneration, that's what they do. It's
all online dating. Sure, Yeah, I just I don't know, it's
it's not as appealing to me asit is to other people. And I
(03:08):
think like hookup culture is very likeit's a big thing, especially on like
with online dating, at least inmy generation. And I'm not like that,
you know, I don't. I'mreally like to myself and I don't,
you know, it just doesn't it'snot something that's too appealing to me.
Okay, So maybe that's why I'mnot big on online dating. Do
(03:30):
you feel like there's just not alot of people that are looking for like
relationships through online dating, So maybeyou just don't have as much of a
pool to like even be like,you know, attracting just because like there
are more than the hookup culture andthat's just not your your jam. Yeah,
I think so. I think alsolike I'm also really picky. Yeah,
(03:52):
and so there's not you know,there's a certain like like you said,
you know, it's a certain demographicof people on there that looking for
that, and I just that's justthat's just wait, different apps again,
different apps are attractive to different whateveryour goal is, right, whatever it
is you're looking for. So youwere you are or you were on it?
(04:13):
What did you say? I'm onTinder and then I have for the
people you know listening, they can'tsee me, but I'm I'm Latino.
Obviously I don't you can tell bymy name, but I I have something
called Chies Spa and it's like aLatino dating app. Okay, is that
exclusively? No, I've seen I'veseen white white girls on there. I've
seen I've seen some black girls onthere, but it is mostly for Latino.
(04:35):
Yeah, it's mostly for Latino.Yeah, yeah, okay, so
tell me about it. It's justit's just like Tinder. It's, you
know, the exact same thing,just with you know, how has it
worked for you? Not very well, to be honest. It's it's kind
of the same thing. It's like, I don't know, Like I think
for me, like meeting someone throughthe phone or like like through dating apps
(04:56):
is a little strange because I II feel like I'm less awkward in person,
like I can I can talk toyou more, like kind of make
more of a conversation as opposed tobeing on on you know, on and
app me like hey, you knowand then yeah, just kind of it's
like, what the fuck are yousupposed to say that? That was my
biggest thing too, It's like,what kind of goddamn conversations Like I'd google,
(05:17):
like, what are some good fuckingthings to say when you like match
with somebody on that where so diego? Obviously, you know, being Latino,
do you find yourself only looking forother Latino women or do you feel
like you would be interested in awider spectrum of human I think basically,
(05:42):
for most of my life it's definitelybeen Latino women. But now now that
I'm older, you know, likeI think I think I'm being being a
little more open. I think fornow it's just like, you know,
when the right person comes, youknow, I want to say that you're
quite the opposite, So you're special. I'm madam would agree, but she's
not in studio today because most people, I think, would you know,
(06:04):
if we surveyed people, and Ithink I've read this too, that most
people would prefer the texting communication overthe in person I'm so happy to hear
that. Yeah, there's a twentyyear old in the world. He does
exist who likes to meet people inperson and get to know them that way.
And it sounds like that's less awkwardfor you than the texting part,
(06:25):
because you know, we know thatcowards behind key us. We can do
lots of stuff behind the keyboard,but then when they actually meet the person,
it's such a different vibe and it'sso awkward. Yours is the opposite.
Yeah, it just I mean Ican do both. I have,
but it's just boring. Like Iwould agree with you, but lots of
people, Yeah, I would agreewith you. I'd rather just hang out,
meet in person and then like onlike kind of what Ryan was saying,
(06:48):
It's like, like, what thehell do you even say? Like
what's your opening line? Like yeah, and you can't like like some people
put like hit me with your bestpickup line, Like I don't fucking know,
like I'm not, so what haveyou you've done? Because you've done
it. So what is what haveyou written? If like nothing, not
not like anything? Like you andlistening to this and wanting to know,
(07:12):
you know, men's experience. Yeah, no, I I just hey,
how are you? What do youhave to blah blah blah? Right,
And that's why it's like I don'tknow. It's so, have you met
somebody online that you've gone on aphysical date with? I want to say,
not on a dating app, butonline? Yes, where you know,
(07:34):
like Instagram, you you just slideinto some dms. That interesting,
Yeah, because social media platforms arenow turning into dating sites, right,
so how does that work? Tellme about the Instagram? Yeah? Well
for me, like, I thinkit's like I said, it's different on
like dating apps, but in thepast when I've you know, kind of
(07:56):
texted someone on Instagram, you meanyou DM that? Yeah? DM them,
and I'll be like, hey,tho's actually like a fifty five year
old in a twenty year old Mexicanbody. It's hilarious. Yeah, he's
so sweet. We're taking a phoneyou guys can send in your numbers for
als. He this is a supersweet guy. How old are you again?
(08:16):
You're not twenty here? Yeah yeah, Mirian's right, you're liking your
forties. I like you telling him. First of all, you got to
say you're like twenty three, twentyfour. Stop. Well, a lot
of people do think that I'm older. You have a beard, you know,
you have your old soul? Yeah, girl, growing up, growing
up, it was all like becauseI'm a very short person, but like
growing up, I didn't have facialhair. I have a baby face underneath,
(08:37):
you know. But they're just like, oh, how old are you?
Fourteen and I'm like seventeen and likeno, uh yeah, can you
not tell man? Yeah? Yeahyeah right. So as soon as the
beard kind of came in, you'relike, yeah, everybody'll be like,
oh what I'm doing? Yeah,you puberty finally, yeah, I'll go
I'll go to a bar, right, and then they'll be like, oh,
(08:58):
how old are you blah blah,and obviously like I'll say twenty one
twenty two, they're like, oh, I thought you were twenty five,
and I'm like geeze, like Idon't know where that came from, but
okay, And it's actually like it'smostly like white people that they set older
than what I am. Because ifyou ask like any anybody, you know,
like a Hispanic or Latin or anybody, they'll be like, oh,
he's twenty, you know, twentyone. But if I like walk on
(09:20):
the street, ask a white person, they'll be like, oh, he's
twenty five. I'm like no,okay. So on this date, so
you said you okay, So howdid it go? Or you said you
never had it? But still it'sthrough digital social media, so you slipped
in the DMS, Ryan would say, And then she responded to ye.
Yeah. So I was like,hey, she texted back, and I
(09:41):
was like, you know, Ijust I just thought I saw your profile.
I thought you were really pretty.When I get to know you a
little better, if that's okay withyou, and wow, you'll usually say
yes or you know, very fewtimes has it not worked? Okay?
But so then do you talk onthe phone or do you just yeah,
we text. We'll definitely text fora little bit because I feel like I'm
(10:01):
I'm I'm a big FaceTime person.Okay, That's what I was gonna say.
Texting and talking on this show notthe same guys. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, But I thinkbefore you FaceTime. You got to
text a little a little bit likehey, FaceTime right away? Like how
you approach the do you want toFaceTime? Because I don't know if I've
like really done that. Yeah,since with my you know, my dating
(10:22):
was kind of limited after FaceTime youknow, was a thing. Yeah,
well, I'll just like text fora few weeks, like and like usually
then I know what they look like, I've seen their photos of saying,
you know, like but then I'lljust be like, you know, hey,
do you want to FaceTime? Andthen but it has to be like
before a phone call? Yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, what do
you feel about that? Would doa phone call then FaceTime? Yeah,
(10:43):
because if the vibe is good whilewe're speaking to each other, then I
would be like, let's do aFaceTime. Yeah. I feel like when
when when you can see the person, it's just a lot easier in my
opinion, when you're on the phone, it's just like like what are you
up to? Like oh yeah,this and that, blah bla blah.
But it's just like you can't likeyou can't see the person's reaction. They
(11:05):
can react a certain way. I'mso happy yes, because most people,
again it's the opposite. I wantmore people to be like Diego, because
Diego wants to have to let mesee you. Yeah, and I'm all
about that, right because yeah,you're saying you looked at her pictures,
but then you face them like,oh, okay, it is her,
this is what she looks like.Yeah, because we all know about you
(11:28):
know, profiles and the mismatch ofwhat you actually Yeah, I need to
make sure it's not a fifty yearold man. You know, you didn't
find pictures anywhere? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Okay, so then you
FaceTime yeah yeah, yeah. Solike I'll give you like an actual example
of someone that I went out with. You know, I did all the
like what I told you, Hey, whatever, we FaceTime, We had
a good time, and then wewent on a date. We did like
(11:54):
the typical like movies and then likearcade h alah blah. We went we
went out to eat, the wentto arcade, and we went to get
a movie. Did you pay?Yeah, of course, of course.
I think arcades are a fantastic date, especially I went on a couple of
first date of arcade. Because you'realways in close proximity to each other,
you could have some playful touching,and I feel like it really sets up
(12:16):
the flirting like and a really likeeasy and sort of like no pressure kind
of thing, like it's really nobig deal, and like you're like,
then you can kind of gauge likethe personality of ye, are they going
to be fun, are they goingto do whatever? It's yeah, absolutely,
and especially when then there's there's alcoholat all these arcades now too,
so like I mean, obviously you'reyour eight so you're not drinking at this,
(12:37):
but you're less inhibited. Okay,all right, So movie our arcade?
Yeah, yeah, So we wentout to eat arcade and then a
movie and then you know, itwent fine. I got the you know,
the the typical first aid kiss whatever, okay, and then after that
it was kind of a little backand forth. We ever like officially went
on a second date, but wewere kind of just like on and off
(12:58):
after that. It never really wentanywhere. So what happened? And how
do you? So? Wait,okay, this is interesting, So kiss
on the lips and the okay,I'm just making check on the lips,
so intimate, right, and youthink, okay, this is going well.
We got the vibe, I gotsome you know we have some physical
attraction here going on? What happenedthat it doesn't lead to a second third
(13:22):
date? What happened? This wasso long ago that like, I don't
I think it's it was like anexperience that was really kind of big in
my life that I ended up kindof like there's a lot more to it,
right with with this girl? Yeah, kind of just like blocked it
out. But let's unblocked that shiptoday. Jeez, Like, what happened?
(13:46):
Well, there's noah second date.So I'm curious because I said,
there's a vibe and there's some textinggoing back and forth because this is very
common, by the way, notthe only one where it kind of fizzles
out. And I'm thinking, Okay, is it because what the data suggests,
which which is there's still swiping leftand right and they've just come for
somebody else and bye by diego right. Yeah, So what happened? I
(14:07):
went on this like this is thisis my senior year. She was a
year older than me, so shewas already out of like school blah blah
blah. And I went on thislike retreat, this really big retreat that
was a big deal for me,for like a week, and when I
came back, I was like,hey, so when am I going to
see you again? This and that. It's like, oh, well,
you know, it's not the timeright now, Like you know, I
think I want to do my ownthing, like it's you know, and
(14:31):
I'm not I'm not ready for arelationship. And I was like, dang,
Like all I could do. AllI could do was act like I
wasn't hurt, but like you werehurt that you know. I thought this
was going well and we stayed friendsand whatever, and then she like came
to my graduation, she met myfamily, blah blah blah, and that
night, you know, we hadlike a real like intimate moment. And
from then on, like we kindof started what does an intimate moment mean?
(14:54):
Nothing too crazy, you know,like it was just her and I.
We were watching a movie. Westarted you know like cut aling physical
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,okay, but not like you know,
like we didn't like have sex oranything like that, and that you know,
it was just you know, somethinglike that. And then we both
kind of realized that, you know, we like each other. And she
actually made the first you know moveto be like, hey, you know
what let's try this again, andthen again it didn't work out. Okay,
(15:16):
but and it was it was againheard not me. So wait during
the retreat time, though, wereyou communicating with each other because us I
date then you okay, so no, because that's it was like one of
those retreats where you're not allowed tohave your feel like but and that's kind
of what happened. If you blamethe retreat for no, absolutely, Well,
I don't know. If you goin and if we go on a
(15:37):
date and it's going well, andI'm thinking, Okay, there's a vibe
and we kiss and all that stuff, and I'm thinking there's gonna be a
lot of follow up, meaning eithertexting or talking to each other all the
time or facetiming. But then yougo away for a week. I don't
know. On the other side,I might be thinking where what happened?
Like she didn't go to we maybelike you can kind of maybe lose interest
a little bit. And she knewthat I was going on this You told
(16:00):
her? Oh no, yeah,yeah, of course, of course communication
is super big for me, solike obviously, like he is an anomaly,
Yeah yeah, So like I obviouslytold her I'm not going to just
like go through for a week,like unless that's my intention, right to
ask, right, But you didn't, and then you had you kind of
came back together and then you're stillgood friends, but you decided you know,
yeah, we're still we're still goodfriends. She has her boyfriend now
(16:21):
or whatever, but we're good friends. And that's that's usually like how it
goes. Like I'll you know,message them, like you know, say
that and then kind of see whereit happens, where it goes, and
it usually doesn't go anywhere. Sothat that that that makes me question,
right, like am I the problem? Like maybe it's not them, Maybe
it's me. You know, you'regentleman, we love you, but no
(16:45):
you so are you still doing thison Instagram or are you talking about different
apps Instagram? Yeah? I don't. I like I haven't really been dating
recently. Okay, what happened?I was going on with this girl for
a while for a couple of months. And how you met her? I
met her at school? Well actuallyI had seen her on social media before.
(17:06):
We had texted a little bit,but it never went anywhere. And
then she went to I hope shedoesn't hear this, but she went to
the same school that I did.H it is the same college. And
one day we were just texting andshe's like, I was like, oh,
where are you. She's like,oh, I'm you know, at
school. And I was like,oh, well I'm here too, blah
blah blah. And then she justkind of came because I worked at an
office there. She came to myjob and like she would just come like
(17:30):
once a week and just hang outwith me. And that's where that connection
kind of started. Okay, andthen at first it wasn't supposed to be
anything serious, but eventually it kindof turned serious. And this time,
like I was the one that messedup. I knew. It was like
it was definitely my fault. Whatdid you do? It was going it
was going really well. Actually itwas going really well. But wait,
I want to say, Amanda,he did do something wrong. It wasn't
(17:53):
like I didn't I didn't like cheaton her or anything like that. Like
up to my understanding, to myknowledge, it was we were both exclusive,
you know, we weren't seeing otherPEPs, right, but it was
like we came to a point wherenobody had really communicated whether we were serious
or not, but I thought thatwe were, and I assumed that she
(18:15):
also thought we were. Ah,this is where it all gets fucked up,
right, these mind games like mindreading. And I'm just going to
share this with you. I wastalking, well, one of my patients
a couple of weeks ago. Ican share this because nobody knows who this
person is. We were talking literallyabout exactly what your experience, you experience
in that relationship. She was datingthis person probably for a couple of months.
(18:37):
And then this whole conversation and theydid meet online. Uh, came
up about exclusivity. Are we monogamouswith each other? And then she was
talking to me but I said,well, I'm hoping, but I think
we are. And we kind ofjoked about it and I said to her,
I said, and she's in herfor I said, why do you
not just ask him? And shesaid, no, I can't ask him.
I'm going to come across too needy. Blah blah blah bah blah.
(19:00):
Anyway, it is just shit hitthe fan. And of course somebody was
on you know, somebody was onan app and they got caught looking at
somebody else, right, So I'mlike, oh, why didn't you have
this conversation because they the other personassumed her partners at the time assumed that
they were not monogamous. She assumedthat they were monogamous, but they kind
(19:22):
of played mind games with it andit wasn't very clear. And I'm like,
why are you going to make itso complicated? If that's what you
want, right, you did itwith the man, if that's what you're
looking for. Ye, yeah,we've talked about You had the conversation,
right, It wasn't this. I'mtalking to my therapist about it, but
I'm not talking to you about it. And a therapist is saying, and
I was saying, talk to himabout it. If it's important to you
(19:44):
want to be exclusive, talk tohim about it. Blew up anyway,
because of this dance that they weredoing around like are we exclusive? Are
we not? So? Yeah,you got it. That's kind of what
happened the same again, it blewup in your face. Has a conversation
friends, That's what I'm saying.If you're dating somebody, however you you
met them and you want to beexclusive, ask them and tell them how
you feel, what you think aboutit, and that you want to be
(20:07):
And if they don't, that's okay. You're in a different place and then
you can make a decision whether you'regoing to continue the relationship or not.
Like you did Ryan, you decided, well, I want exclusivity and if
you don't, then we need tokind of move on. Yeah, and
you know, I feel like ifit's I don't know, meant to be
whatever that means, but like youdon't. We ended up come back together
and now we're married. Now they'remarried, and yeah, I mean it's
(20:27):
not great. I mean now thatshe's not here, I could I can
actually be honest like my marriage sucked. Bulls. Okay, So then that's
the issue that you had. Yeahbodywas sure, but we because okay,
so we had talked about it likebefore. That's saying like, you know,
we're not seeing other people. Butthis is this thing and I hate
(20:48):
it where people will be like,oh, yeah, we're talking. It's
like, what does that mean we'retalking exactly? I guess it's I guess
some kind of agreement that it's likeyou're not talking to anybody else, like
just me. But I thought wewere dating, like we were going on
dates. To me, dating isyou know, you're going out you're going
on dates, you know, likethis and that, blah blah blah,
Like we weren't you know, boyfriendand girlfriend, but we were, you
(21:10):
know, going out on dates andall this stuff. Oh wait, does
that then mean to you that you'redating her but you're also dating other people?
No? No, no, no, that's the thing. Nobody was
dating other people. Yeah, yeah, nobody was there, ye yeah,
yeah. But it came to thepoint where she was like, so are
we talking? And I was like, uh, I, you know,
like I thought we kind of wereright, And then she was like,
well, nobody really you never reallysaid it, so I assumed we weren't.
(21:32):
She's like, and I'm not gonnaI'm not going to like assume something
that's not there if you don't sayit. Yeah, Like like a lot
of people will say that the labelsdon't matter, or some people say labels
do matter. Right, So thenwhen she was like, oh, well,
are we talking or not? AndI was like, oh, like,
well are we? And then Ikind of got in my head and
like, you know, it kindof started like spiraling on my own and
(21:56):
yeah, man, do I reallywant this? Like yeah, And and
then everybody was telling me like oh, you know you're stupid. You know
you should you should stay with herlike this and that and blah blah blah,
Like you know, I see theway that she looks at you,
you know you, I've never seenyou like this happy. And it was
true. I was super happy whenI was out here, and then you
(22:18):
know whatever. I was like sure, yeah, we're we're talking. But
then like I went, I left, I left on another trip and then
I came back and afterwards I waslike, you know what, I don't
think this is what I want,Like you know, when I cut it
off, and I like recognized thatthat was like my bad. I like
telling her, yeah, this iswhat I want, and then like you
want and then telling her yeah,because I think that time where I was
able to be alone and like awayfrom from like just everything like made me
(22:41):
realize like not I don't think,you know, I don't think that's what
I want. And I think thepart of the problem is just like like
I was talking to Anita earlier,and Ryan knows this too, like I've
never had like an actual girlfriend,you know, like where it's boyfriend girlfriend.
I mean, honestly, it soundslike you kind of did. But
like your generation is like decided tohave like a lot of ridiculously sure yeah
(23:03):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yesyou have. You just described two relationships
to me. Yeah yeah, I'mthe first one, like the one that
I did tell you wasn't as seriousas the second one was, because you
know, like we went on multipledates, like more than I can count
on my hands, and in myopinion, there were dates, right yeah,
but I feel like I just gottoo comfortable being single. Yea,
So now I just like don't wantto and can't not be What are you
(23:27):
afraid of commitment? I guess comment. And I talked to her actually about
that, and she understood and shewas like, well, whenever you're ready,
like blah blah blah. This isbefore like I had gone on that
trip and she's like, well,you know, I understand, it's this
and that and blah blah blah.And then turns out she didn't understand,
(23:48):
and you know, came at meand was like, why don't you want
to be with me this and thatand blah blah blah. And that's when
I decided like, okay, yeah, I do want to be with you,
and okay, and I came backand you did it hit the fat.
But this is very interesting to mebecause I'm an older generation than you.
This whole word about talking. Solet me make sure I understand you
clearly. So if you in thisgeneration, if you say, well,
yeah, we are talking, itdoesn't mean what I think. Yeah we're
(24:11):
talking, of course we're talking.Yeah, it means what we're dating.
We're exclusive, I guess to me, like, no, I don't know.
I would like more than just seeingeach other from what I understand.
Okay, well that is exclusive,I guess, but I never, like,
I never really got it. I'mso confusing, no better and no
wonder. Relationships are so fun.Think the language I think we're talking,
(24:36):
Like the term talking is also avery like childish thing, like when you're
like, I guess I'm technically anadult, right, but like when you're
an adult, it's like, ameither dating you or I'm not. You
know, that's like what I like, what I would say, Well,
this is a big problem today becauseagain, like I talked about my patient,
are we dating meaning we're dating,but I'm also dating five other people
(25:00):
because it's like an interviewing process.I'm dating you, I'm going to date
John over here, I'm going tofigure out which one I like the most,
and it's an mutual process. Yeah, Or for some people, we're
dating means we're exclusive. We needto define the terms because that's where you
get into trouble. Oh, absolutelyright. When would you define it as
though? Well, I think ifwe're dating, I'm going on a date
with you one date, but thenI would assume that you're also dating other
(25:22):
women unless we've had the conversation andwe've gone on multiple dates. But the
first date, I wouldn't assume thatyou're exclusive with me. No, right
after the first or even the secondor the third. When I met my
partner, we basically said to eachother, Okay, I'm off all the
apps, we're going to be exclusiveand that, and I needed to hear
that, he needed to hear that, and everything worked out fine. But
(25:45):
it's these people that I work withtoday, and I'm just listening to you
now, I'm like, oh mygod, the language would totally fucked me
up. I'm so glad I'm todo a twenty year old terminology. We're
talking, we're dating and what arewe like? Relationships? We've made them
so much more complicated through this digitaldating process, which I think can be
great, but we need to definewhat we're define the terms. The language
(26:07):
is different. Yeah, absolutely,And I mean how frustrating is it?
You know too, where you're kindof like maybe you even use a different
like the same word, but theyview it as a different thing. They
interpret it somewhere different too, Soit's like, how do you even know
where you are? And like whatcan you say? I would use exact
(26:30):
terminology, say are we exclusive orI want to be exclusive? Are we
interested in exclusivity in the near future? Maybe in the near future. Do
you think this is going somewhere?Do you like, do you want to
be I mean, so Diego,you're not part of the hookup culture right
now, but you also want tobe not exclusively dating. So what is
(26:51):
it about your freedom that you feellike you would be losing? Dude,
I don't even know. That's awhole nother show. Get into that a
little bit. Say it's the fearof commitment, right, yeah, yeah,
and the fear of commitment. Yeah, I think so for me,
like a big thing is like Iwas, like I said, I was
(27:11):
a musician. I went to allthese gigs. There are a lot of
beautiful girls there, and I'm notone to like ever like say like I'm
going to cheat on a girl,right, but there's obviously that like home
man, like you're tempted, you'reyeah, yeah, yeah, always yeah,
absolutely yeah, and I'm not I'mnot going to do it. But
(27:32):
then I feel bad when it's likewhen it's like, well I really shouldn't
shouldn't be like looking at all theseother women and thinking anything if if I'm
supposed to be with this, weare lesson. We are all human,
especially at the age of twenty.Like the young people that I work with
today, I'm like, why tieyourself up and you know, make this
(27:53):
commitment. If you're really still lookingfor other people, just say you know,
I don't want to be exclusive.I'm dating people. You can say
that and then you're you're not goingto get hurt. The other person is
not going to get hurt, andit's clear. And I think for somebody
who's in their twenties, I thinkyou should play the field. I get
worried when people tie themselves up atsuch a young age. It's okay,
it's called a dating process. It'slike when you're looking for a job,
(28:15):
you're going to look for multiple jobs. You're not going to tell one employee
I'm cheating on you because I'm applyingover there. Oh for sure. You're
going through a process, and Ithink young people like yourself. Yeah,
especially I'm being a musician. You'reon the road. These women, you
know, girls are like all hotfor you because girls girls are musicians.
You know. It makes it alot easier. And then you're not setting
(28:37):
yourself up for failure for cheating likeyou're saying, because you can say,
hey, I'm dating, but youknow, I'm a free agent and I
kind of like my freedom right now. But if you want to get together
when I'm in town or whatever,that's great. But the important part is
having those conversations which people don't have, and then they get into this oh
my god, am I cheating becauseI'm looking at this girl? Yeah?
I mean obviously, like I know, if I like get a girl,
(29:00):
I'm like, oh my god,you know, I'm not cheating hot right,
Like I'm not cheating, But there'sstill that that's like part in me
where it's like, well, doyou know I have this girl you know
where I'm from that is like,you know, really likes me, and
I really like her. So whyam I like twenty It doesn't turn off?
I mean, I feel like youhave to be honest, like,
(29:22):
yeah, I talked to Amanda,like we've we've talked about like oh that
girl has nice boobs or look atthat thing at that or whatever it might
be. Because that doesn't mean thatyou're all of a sudden gonna like you're
not going to act on it.Yeah, and it's not. And I
don't feel guilty about it because justbecause you get married or in your relationship
all of that, that part ofyour brain doesn't stop. But that's and
it shouldn't die, right, Andyeah, visual id my all kinds of
(29:47):
different bodies and doesn't mean I'm goingto act on it. But somehow if
we look at somebody else, likeI'll be with my part I'm like,
wow, she's beautiful, look atthat, right, doesn't mean anything.
I'm able to admire both genders andI'm not bisexual. Yeah he is beauty,
right, it is, you know, And I think, yeah,
you're talking about you know, othermen and women, as long as you're
(30:07):
not making it into like some weirdsort of like sexual thing with your partner.
Yeah, Like but you let's let'sjust be real, Like, I
mean, there are a lot ofattractive humans in the world, and I
think it's okay to take a peekevery once in a while. Like,
you know, you're in Target andyou see, you know, a hot
chick. You the Grafton Target ismy favorite people. But yeah, you
(30:36):
know, you you sneak a quickpeek, but then you then you go
back to shopping, you know.Yeah, yeah, you're right, you
don't you don't sit there And no, I mean, why are we the
unhinge ones? We are the oldones and you're the young one. But
I do want to say I don'tthink it's correct or proper appropriate when you're
on a date with your significant other, even if you know you've been if
(30:59):
it's a date, don't check outother people, especially yeah, yeah,
especially seen that. I was like, seriously, dude, you're with your
wife and girlfriend and like you're basicallygoogling, googling at this other person's totally
rooted unacceptable target, your target,especially I guess saying hey, this is
like hot people in this target.I need to come here more often,
(31:21):
never mind one in Milwaukee. It'syeah, it's you know, I think
I think too it's just like you, Yeah, you got to also remember
that, like you get to bein a relationship with someone where you get
to have a like probably your bestfriend that you get to also fuck.
Like that is basically being in arelationship is awesome, you know. So
(31:41):
like, I don't know why peopleare afraid of don't you think though that
that's that could be a problem.Like this person's your best friend and you're
hooking up with them, seeing everyday, but if you break up,
you're like, fuck, I don'thave my best friend anymore because no realistically
realistic. But that's part suffering.You know, we talked about it in
the last parts. But who wantsto suffer? All this is this is
where they use is coming. Justtell you life is suffering. You will
(32:05):
suffer in many ways in your life. You're twenty now. The suffering continues
and then you unfuck that suffering bygetting some help, going to therapy or
just learning from the experiences. Butyou you will have suffering in your life,
like I tell my kids, youguaranteed you will have suffering, But
you need to experience the suffering,go through the suffering to get to the
other side, to learn something fromit is when people get stuck in the
(32:30):
suffering and they can't deal with it. We do live in a culture of
oh my god, everything everything isso soft, right, I don't want
to feel paid. It's part oflife. You will get to the other
side, you'll be stronger, andthen you go on and you have another
suffering. Suffering is part of life. Sorry, but if you if you
go through life saying I'm not goingto do anything because I don't want to
(32:51):
save the potential of suffering, thenyou're never going to be happy. Like
life is all about a lot ofreally good and a lot of really bad.
And you know, it's life's waytoo short to be like afraid of
trying to do so, you know, and relationships will you will have the
worst of times and you will havethe best of times, and they will
involve suffering. Because we talked aboutattachment and detachment in the last in the
(33:14):
last episode, if you guys listento it, basically that relationships are all
about detaching and attaching, and thatcomes from how do we do that in
our family of virgin If you guysremember from the last episode, and when
we detach from somebody we love,whether it's our choice or not, guess
what we are going to suffer.But it's when we can change with that
(33:35):
new reality that our suffering becomes lessand less each time. Get ready to
suffer, my friends. Yeah,no, no, I've definitely been through
a lot, a lot of thingsthat you know, this young age.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Imean, and the thing is, like
diego, you and I were talkingabout this last week. I do I
(33:58):
feel that men hurt a little bitharder than women with some with breakups,
at least into my experiences, it'sa woman could you know, like get
broken up with or break up withsomeone, go out and find another guy
like that. It's so much harderfor for for like in my opinion,
right, But that's interesting perspective.Why do you think what makes you think
(34:20):
that that it's so much easier forwomen to like find because I've seen it
done, you know, like it'sit's so much if I don't know,
like if I if I go upto a girl like and be like,
hey, I think you're pretty blahblah blah, this and that, and
we talked the whole night, likethe chances of me going home with her
are probably very very low, youknow, if like it's something that I
want. But it's if if agirl goes out and she's like, tonight,
(34:43):
I'm going to go find a guyto hook up. I feel like
it's a lot, it's so much, so much easier. And why it's
because men are stupid, Like tobe honest, I'm not going to disagree,
to be honest, That's what itis. Maybe more okay, yeah,
I also, I don't know,but we were just I know we
were talking to and I just feellike after breakups, I always feel like
I'm definitely suffering more than what makesyou feel that because I work with a
(35:07):
lot of women who are I'm sure, I'm sure my own Yeah, I
mean, I guess it's my ownpersonal experience and and maybe just you know,
some other people that I've talked to. I feel like it doesn't last
that long for me. But likewhen I have gotten broken up with or
things haven't worked out, it's likethere's like, you know, a couple
of weeks where it's like I'm fuckingmessed up, right, and then like
(35:30):
and then you wake up one dayand it's like, oh, Okay,
I'm gonna be a little bit better, a little bit better I'm gonna have
to say that. I think it'sbecause I as a woman, I think,
you know, we suffer equally.Well, you're saying maybe you suffer
more, but I think it's oursuffering is different, and how we process
it is different. Women have lotsof other women, They have a network
(35:52):
that they go they take their sufferingtoo, and then they work it out
and talk it out, where Ithink for men, most they keep the
suffering inside of themselves, which makesit harder. Right. Men don't want
to be vulnerable to another guy ortheir family to say, hey, oh
my god, I'm so depressed andheartbroken over this breakup. They want to
(36:12):
be the alpha men and their significantother is always that person that they go
to with their suffering, where womenhave ten other women that can go to
and talk about the suffering. Maybethat's why. I mean, that's a
great point, because yeah, likeAmanda is really the only person. Yeah,
I'm like really like going through someshit. Yeah, she's the one
that I would kind of talk to. Yeah, Like you know, there's
something like Diego is interesting because Ifeel like I could talk to him about
(36:36):
stuff. I think we've decided he'san anomaly. Yeah, like you know,
like you, we can't generalize,but pretty much any of my other
guy friends like I'm not going tohave like no, you're not. So
that then our suffering appears to beless. But it's because we are just
going to our friends, going forour family. That's what I've done with
my suffering. When I'm suffering,I'm like, oh my God, I
(36:57):
call my I need to for meto work it out, I need to
talk it out. And I thinkfor men, for them to work it
out, they internalize and they thinkabout it a lot, but they're not
necessarily talking and processing. That's changingslowly because I would say the majority of
my patients right now are men,and that's like a that's a huge shift
because generally it's women. But Ithink now when men are starting to realize,
(37:19):
hey, wait a minute, Ineed to talk this out. I
can't keep all the suffering inside ofmyself. And maybe I just go to
a therapist because I don't want tobother my friend, I don't want to
bother my family, or I don'twant to make myself vulnerable to any of
these people. But I'll go andget some help from somebody else, which
is great because we all need towork it out. But there's different ways
of working out the suffering. Thinkit through, talk it through. We
need a combination of both. Ithink about it, but I generally need
(37:44):
to talk it through, as youguys know, that's what I do.
Talk to talk about it helps.So that's a very interesting point. Where
do we take our suffering and howdo we process? And you're talking about
that, right, you think womenrebound much quicker, but maybe that's the
reason they do. We just talkabout it. You got more and more
stuff to talk to. Yeah,I don't know. I feel like it's
interesting to you talking about therapy,like you're saying you're having more male clients.
(38:06):
You know, I don't feel likeI could have a male therapist.
I feel so much more comfortable withthe woman with anything, and and it
has nothing to do with anything likesexual attractiveness, Like, no, it's
completely it's just like I don't know, maybe because like it has always been
that my girlfriend has been or wifehas been the person that I talked to
(38:28):
about stuff that we feel that way, or like because I don't talk to
dudes like well, I'll tell you. As a therapist. In my training,
Yeah, we study this like howit's not by it's not random that
you choose a male or a female. It is really based on what you're
going to be what what what doyou bring to the table in terms of
your own childhood and what you're tryingto work out. Right, I had
(38:50):
a man, and I chose aman because I had a lot of daddy
issues. I thought, I itwas random, but really it was not
random. When the whole therapy,you know, came to an end because
I moved, not because I wantedit to, it became very clear I
needed to work out my daddy issueswith somebody who was like a dad to
me. And my therapist ended upbeing like a father to me. So
I was able to replay, recreatesome of that trauma and then work it
(39:14):
out with him. I would literallyget mad at him, but I was
projecting because I was experiencing like mydad, He's rejecting me, And he
would say, I'm not your dad, I'm not rejecting you. This is
a different experience. But I wentdeeper than that. But I also think
men choose women as their therapist,well like a mommy issues perhaps, but
also it's easier to make yourself vulnerableto a woman than to go to a
(39:36):
guy and say, hey, youknow, I'm feeling very vulnerable. I'm
hurt. We don't want to domen don't want to do that with other
men in generally speaking, and womenare the nurturers. We take on hunting
and gathering, right, what dowe do? Our job is to nurture
and to heal and to help.So I just wanted my mom to love
me more when I was younger.Well, you're able to open up to
Amanda. So if you went fortherapy, you want a woman because you're
(39:59):
going to feel like just nursery andcomforting and that for sure. So then
and everything you're saying, there's alot of research to back that up.
But that's okay. But it's gettinguh and getting guys to talk to one
another and normalizing that it's okay.We can take our suffering to our bros.
You know, you know, yeah, speaking on that, like I
(40:19):
did another analoe, right, Butlike I feel like I can talk to
my guy friends and be like hey, and I have before I've been like
hey, dude, like today,I'm just really not feeling it. Like
I've had a lot, I've hadmy fair share of emotional issues, right,
And I've talked to my friends suffering. You've had a lot of suffering,
sure, yeah, yeah, andthey know that, you know,
they've known. I've also got goneto therapy before. But like all my
friends know that I've struggled a lot, and I can talk to them,
(40:40):
and I feel like I can talkto them. I feel comfortable telling them,
hey, guys, like I'm notfeeling very well, you know,
like this is what's going on,right, So I really yeah, yeah,
I definitely can see though that likehow other people, you know,
or like other men don't feel comfortabletalking to their other guy friends. But
also I'm like my relationships, likemy friendships were like family, you know,
(41:05):
like we're super close. But Ialso think that's cultural because you're Latina.
That's very similar to Indian culture,where you know, men do share
much more emotionally and also physically,Like if you went to India, you'd
see guys holding hands like that.Yeah, yeah, they're very comfortable with
each other physically. That's probably becausethey're you know, culturally not supposed to
do that with their wives. It'sactually, you know, quite the opposite,
(41:28):
like in the Hispanic culture, theman's supposed to be. That's where
the word my cheese moll comes from, you know, like he's supposed to
be the macho man, like hecan't show emotions this and that and blah
blah blah. And the thing thatI feel was different for me growing up
was because I have a brother,I have two sisters, you know,
my mom and my dad. Mydad when I was growing up wasn't home
all the time because he was alwaysworking, and my brother was already grown.
(41:50):
So I grew up with my momand my two sisters. So there's
definitely there could be that like feminine, you know, like yeah, no,
absolutely, yeah, my stepdad wasn'treally around. Yeah, and like
I just had my sisters, sothen you don't learn to do that right,
emulate that that could that that couldvery well be why I'm so comfortable,
you know, sharing stuff with myfriends. And also like you know,
(42:15):
like classically, yeah, in inin Latino especially Mexican culture, like
men are supposed to be you know, fearless and supposed to care and blah
blah blah and this and that.But I think as we're growing older,
even my parents, like I knowthat in their times it was like that,
but like now my parents are definitelygetting a lot more emotional and and
(42:37):
you know, like show us moremore more of their their emotional side.
Yeah. Yeah, and my friendstoo, you know, Like I think,
I think we're just evolving and andand we're able to kind of see
like, hey, it's not bad. I think you should start lecturing young
people giving so seriously. You talkabout your emotions, you're not afraid to
be you want to meet people inthe real world, not online. I'm
(43:00):
like Jesus, that is pretty crazy. Yeah, I don't know. I
think there's some I mean that ispart of this your generation now, which
is so much better. Like,you know, if I think about like
when I was in high school,be like feelings, yeah, you know,
like you know, all of asudden, you're probably gonna get you're
(43:20):
gonna get made fun of, beatup, right, Yeah, you know
it's that, you know. Nowit's I think it's a little bit more.
Okay. I think we talk aboutstuff. Yeah, and I think
that's great, I think, butI do want to say we talk about
we talk about the stuff, butdo we actually do it. I still
think there's a huge gap between thedoing part. Even though you know,
(43:42):
it's changing, just like in myprivate practice, more men are coming.
There is still that stigma. ButI'm so happy to hear, you know,
talk to Diego and have him inthe studio today. He's talking about
how you're able to do that withyour friends. Now, how did they
receive it? They receive it prettywell, I'm assuming because you keep doing
it. Yeah, yeah, theyshare with you well, oh yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, for most of the times they
(44:07):
do share with with me. Mostof my most of my friends also like
are in a relationship. They havetheir girlfriends and and that's actually that's another
thing, Like I'm also like superclose to their to their to their girlfriends.
They're all like we're all like they'reall like brothers and sisters to me,
Like they're like family to me.So I have this whole like support
system and they all know that I'vestruggled and all this kind of stuff.
(44:27):
So you know, even when I'mnot like if they can tell, they'll
be like, hey, you know, like are you okay, like you
know what's going on, But theyalways receive it super well, and like
we can like they have come tome for sure and been like Hey,
you know today I'm just not feelingit or this is what's going on,
you know, And I try tosupport them as as well as I can
as much as I can. Yeah, well, diego. We are going
to have you back on this showbecause there's so much more to unpack the
(44:51):
commitment stuff going on. But Ilove the fact that you are so you
make yourself so vulnerable to your friends. You seem to have a really good
support system, and you're totally theother way around on the online dating.
But you shared some of those experienceswith us with us today. Thank you.
But I love the fact that youwhat thanks for having me. Yeah,
(45:12):
of course, but we're going tohave you back. But the fact
that you want to go out andmeet people in the real world and date
is amazing to me. And Ithink there is a bit of a backlash
and swinging back the other way,yeah, which is positive, Like,
Okay, not everything can be achievedonline, and we shouldn't always be seeking
it online. That we can actuallygo back to our communities and meet other
(45:34):
people. And we talked about,you know, one of the most important
things I want people to take awaytoday is have to talk about are we
exclusive or are we not? Becausewhen we talk to the women about online
dating or dating in general, andthen you today confirming again there is this
language, and there's all these gamesthat are going on mind games. Are
we talking? Are we dating?What is this called? Just has the
(45:57):
conversation? Are we exclusive? Arewe not? For not? It's okay,
but let's talk about Yeah, enoughwith the nonsense. Yeah, all
the games. I think you nailedit. I mean, that's exactly what
one of the chapters in my book, Unfuck mind reading. We're not going
to read each other's mind if wejust simply choose to have the conversation.
Thank you so much, Diego forcoming on the show today, and of
course thank you to Ryan for beingmy co host. And we will unfuck
(46:22):
life next time. Guys. Yeah, we're going to get Amanda back here
with Diego though. I feel yeah, we got a lot to talk about.
Diego, you're going to become aregular on this show. I mean
you're already here. Yeah, studio, we love him. Thank you,
Diego. Okay, guys, havea great week, take care until next
time. Unfuck Your Life and Relationshipswas recorded it High five Studio, Walkee,
(46:45):
Wisconsin. Oh Fuck your Life,odd fuck your life,
Welcome to What Fucked Your Life andRelationships with Anita Ashley, psycho therapist and
author, and Ryan Rossman, recordingstudio owner and music producer. This is
a podcast like no other. Sitforward, listen in, and get ready
to get unfucked from the inside out. Odd fuck your life, Odd fuck
(00:28):
your Life. Hey, guys,welcome to another session of Unfuck Your Life
and Relationships. I'm your host,Anita Astley, and I'm in studio with
Ryan post Hi. I haven't seenhim in a while. Yeah, today
we are going to be talking about, as promised, the male experience of
online dating and other stuff. Wehave Diego in the house. Diego usually
(00:52):
works the audio stuff and stuff,but today he's in the hot seat because
he's been here for the conversations we'vehad with the women men, and he's
kind of chiming in in the background. I'm like, okay, dude,
I know we need to get themale experience, but we want to get
your experience. So here we go. Diego, Welcome to the show.
Now you're appreciate it. Yeah,so tell us a little bit about yourself.
(01:17):
Oh my name is Diego, likeyou guys heard sometimes already, and
I work here at high five.I'm an intern and I run a lot
of the sound here. Uh huh. That's basically that's a little quick,
quick thing about me. Okay,but so wait, how old are you?
I'm twenty twenty. He's just ababy. But it's important to get
(01:38):
this perspective because we've been talking toolder generation, you know, myself actually,
and then you've been here throughout theconversations when we had the women on
and I you know, and you'vebeen you know, manning the digital stuff
back. But then I thought,okay, I see him smirking, I
see him laughing. We got soplease tell us a little bit about your
(02:02):
dating experience online? Oh online?Okay. Well I didn't really do like
start dating like online until probably likelike after my senior year of high school.
Okay, and even then or evennow, I don't really do much
(02:23):
like online dating. You know.I have the tender you know, that
kind of thing, but it doesn'treally go anywhere. I'm more of like
I like to meet people first beforeI like want to you know, want
to say like, oh I wantto go on a date with them,
you know. Okay, So that'susually how it's been for me. Usually
like I used to be a musicians, So you know, like if I
go out to a gig and i'dmeet a girl, okay, I take
(02:45):
her out to dinner after or somethinglike that. You know, that's that's
how it usually starts. But soyou're are you So then I would think
you're atypical because I think from whatI've read and some people that I've talked
to, most people of your agegeneration, that's what they do. It's
all online dating. Sure, Yeah, I just I don't know, it's
it's not as appealing to me asit is to other people. And I
(03:08):
think like hookup culture is very likeit's a big thing, especially on like
with online dating, at least inmy generation. And I'm not like that,
you know, I don't. I'mreally like to myself and I don't,
you know, it just doesn't it'snot something that's too appealing to me.
Okay, So maybe that's why I'mnot big on online dating. Do
(03:30):
you feel like there's just not alot of people that are looking for like
relationships through online dating, So maybeyou just don't have as much of a
pool to like even be like,you know, attracting just because like there
are more than the hookup culture andthat's just not your your jam. Yeah,
I think so. I think alsolike I'm also really picky. Yeah,
(03:52):
and so there's not you know,there's a certain like like you said,
you know, it's a certain demographicof people on there that looking for
that, and I just that's justthat's just wait, different apps again,
different apps are attractive to different whateveryour goal is, right, whatever it
is you're looking for. So youwere you are or you were on it?
(04:13):
What did you say? I'm onTinder and then I have for the
people you know listening, they can'tsee me, but I'm I'm Latino.
Obviously I don't you can tell bymy name, but I I have something
called Chies Spa and it's like aLatino dating app. Okay, is that
exclusively? No, I've seen I'veseen white white girls on there. I've
seen I've seen some black girls onthere, but it is mostly for Latino.
(04:35):
Yeah, it's mostly for Latino.Yeah, yeah, okay, so
tell me about it. It's justit's just like Tinder. It's, you
know, the exact same thing,just with you know, how has it
worked for you? Not very well, to be honest. It's it's kind
of the same thing. It's like, I don't know, Like I think
for me, like meeting someone throughthe phone or like like through dating apps
(04:56):
is a little strange because I II feel like I'm less awkward in person,
like I can I can talk toyou more, like kind of make
more of a conversation as opposed tobeing on on you know, on and
app me like hey, you knowand then yeah, just kind of it's
like, what the fuck are yousupposed to say that? That was my
biggest thing too, It's like,what kind of goddamn conversations Like I'd google,
(05:17):
like, what are some good fuckingthings to say when you like match
with somebody on that where so diego? Obviously, you know, being Latino,
do you find yourself only looking forother Latino women or do you feel
like you would be interested in awider spectrum of human I think basically,
(05:42):
for most of my life it's definitelybeen Latino women. But now now that
I'm older, you know, likeI think I think I'm being being a
little more open. I think fornow it's just like, you know,
when the right person comes, youknow, I want to say that you're
quite the opposite, So you're special. I'm madam would agree, but she's
not in studio today because most people, I think, would you know,
(06:04):
if we surveyed people, and Ithink I've read this too, that most
people would prefer the texting communication overthe in person I'm so happy to hear
that. Yeah, there's a twentyyear old in the world. He does
exist who likes to meet people inperson and get to know them that way.
And it sounds like that's less awkwardfor you than the texting part,
(06:25):
because you know, we know thatcowards behind key us. We can do
lots of stuff behind the keyboard,but then when they actually meet the person,
it's such a different vibe and it'sso awkward. Yours is the opposite.
Yeah, it just I mean Ican do both. I have,
but it's just boring. Like Iwould agree with you, but lots of
people, Yeah, I would agreewith you. I'd rather just hang out,
meet in person and then like onlike kind of what Ryan was saying,
(06:48):
It's like, like, what thehell do you even say? Like
what's your opening line? Like yeah, and you can't like like some people
put like hit me with your bestpickup line, Like I don't fucking know,
like I'm not, so what haveyou you've done? Because you've done
it. So what is what haveyou written? If like nothing, not
not like anything? Like you andlistening to this and wanting to know,
(07:12):
you know, men's experience. Yeah, no, I I just hey,
how are you? What do youhave to blah blah blah? Right,
And that's why it's like I don'tknow. It's so, have you met
somebody online that you've gone on aphysical date with? I want to say,
not on a dating app, butonline? Yes, where you know,
(07:34):
like Instagram, you you just slideinto some dms. That interesting,
Yeah, because social media platforms arenow turning into dating sites, right,
so how does that work? Tellme about the Instagram? Yeah? Well
for me, like, I thinkit's like I said, it's different on
like dating apps, but in thepast when I've you know, kind of
(07:56):
texted someone on Instagram, you meanyou DM that? Yeah? DM them,
and I'll be like, hey,tho's actually like a fifty five year
old in a twenty year old Mexicanbody. It's hilarious. Yeah, he's
so sweet. We're taking a phoneyou guys can send in your numbers for
als. He this is a supersweet guy. How old are you again?
(08:16):
You're not twenty here? Yeah yeah, Mirian's right, you're liking your
forties. I like you telling him. First of all, you got to
say you're like twenty three, twentyfour. Stop. Well, a lot
of people do think that I'm older. You have a beard, you know,
you have your old soul? Yeah, girl, growing up, growing
up, it was all like becauseI'm a very short person, but like
growing up, I didn't have facialhair. I have a baby face underneath,
(08:37):
you know. But they're just like, oh, how old are you?
Fourteen and I'm like seventeen and likeno, uh yeah, can you
not tell man? Yeah? Yeahyeah right. So as soon as the
beard kind of came in, you'relike, yeah, everybody'll be like,
oh what I'm doing? Yeah,you puberty finally, yeah, I'll go
I'll go to a bar, right, and then they'll be like, oh,
(08:58):
how old are you blah blah,and obviously like I'll say twenty one
twenty two, they're like, oh, I thought you were twenty five,
and I'm like geeze, like Idon't know where that came from, but
okay, And it's actually like it'smostly like white people that they set older
than what I am. Because ifyou ask like any anybody, you know,
like a Hispanic or Latin or anybody, they'll be like, oh,
he's twenty, you know, twentyone. But if I like walk on
(09:20):
the street, ask a white person, they'll be like, oh, he's
twenty five. I'm like no,okay. So on this date, so
you said you okay, So howdid it go? Or you said you
never had it? But still it'sthrough digital social media, so you slipped
in the DMS, Ryan would say, And then she responded to ye.
Yeah. So I was like,hey, she texted back, and I
(09:41):
was like, you know, Ijust I just thought I saw your profile.
I thought you were really pretty.When I get to know you a
little better, if that's okay withyou, and wow, you'll usually say
yes or you know, very fewtimes has it not worked? Okay?
But so then do you talk onthe phone or do you just yeah,
we text. We'll definitely text fora little bit because I feel like I'm
(10:01):
I'm I'm a big FaceTime person.Okay, That's what I was gonna say.
Texting and talking on this show notthe same guys. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, But I thinkbefore you FaceTime. You got to
text a little a little bit likehey, FaceTime right away? Like how
you approach the do you want toFaceTime? Because I don't know if I've
like really done that. Yeah,since with my you know, my dating
(10:22):
was kind of limited after FaceTime youknow, was a thing. Yeah,
well, I'll just like text fora few weeks, like and like usually
then I know what they look like, I've seen their photos of saying,
you know, like but then I'lljust be like, you know, hey,
do you want to FaceTime? Andthen but it has to be like
before a phone call? Yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, what do
you feel about that? Would doa phone call then FaceTime? Yeah,
(10:43):
because if the vibe is good whilewe're speaking to each other, then I
would be like, let's do aFaceTime. Yeah. I feel like when
when when you can see the person, it's just a lot easier in my
opinion, when you're on the phone, it's just like like what are you
up to? Like oh yeah,this and that, blah bla blah.
But it's just like you can't likeyou can't see the person's reaction. They
(11:05):
can react a certain way. I'mso happy yes, because most people,
again it's the opposite. I wantmore people to be like Diego, because
Diego wants to have to let mesee you. Yeah, and I'm all
about that, right because yeah,you're saying you looked at her pictures,
but then you face them like,oh, okay, it is her,
this is what she looks like.Yeah, because we all know about you
(11:28):
know, profiles and the mismatch ofwhat you actually Yeah, I need to
make sure it's not a fifty yearold man. You know, you didn't
find pictures anywhere? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Okay, so then you
FaceTime yeah yeah, yeah. Solike I'll give you like an actual example
of someone that I went out with. You know, I did all the
like what I told you, Hey, whatever, we FaceTime, We had
a good time, and then wewent on a date. We did like
(11:54):
the typical like movies and then likearcade h alah blah. We went we
went out to eat, the wentto arcade, and we went to get
a movie. Did you pay?Yeah, of course, of course.
I think arcades are a fantastic date, especially I went on a couple of
first date of arcade. Because you'realways in close proximity to each other,
you could have some playful touching,and I feel like it really sets up
(12:16):
the flirting like and a really likeeasy and sort of like no pressure kind
of thing, like it's really nobig deal, and like you're like,
then you can kind of gauge likethe personality of ye, are they going
to be fun, are they goingto do whatever? It's yeah, absolutely,
and especially when then there's there's alcoholat all these arcades now too,
so like I mean, obviously you'reyour eight so you're not drinking at this,
(12:37):
but you're less inhibited. Okay,all right, So movie our arcade?
Yeah, yeah, So we wentout to eat arcade and then a
movie and then you know, itwent fine. I got the you know,
the the typical first aid kiss whatever, okay, and then after that
it was kind of a little backand forth. We ever like officially went
on a second date, but wewere kind of just like on and off
(12:58):
after that. It never really wentanywhere. So what happened? And how
do you? So? Wait,okay, this is interesting, So kiss
on the lips and the okay,I'm just making check on the lips,
so intimate, right, and youthink, okay, this is going well.
We got the vibe, I gotsome you know we have some physical
attraction here going on? What happenedthat it doesn't lead to a second third
(13:22):
date? What happened? This wasso long ago that like, I don't
I think it's it was like anexperience that was really kind of big in
my life that I ended up kindof like there's a lot more to it,
right with with this girl? Yeah, kind of just like blocked it
out. But let's unblocked that shiptoday. Jeez, Like, what happened?
(13:46):
Well, there's noah second date.So I'm curious because I said,
there's a vibe and there's some textinggoing back and forth because this is very
common, by the way, notthe only one where it kind of fizzles
out. And I'm thinking, Okay, is it because what the data suggests,
which which is there's still swiping leftand right and they've just come for
somebody else and bye by diego right. Yeah, So what happened? I
(14:07):
went on this like this is thisis my senior year. She was a
year older than me, so shewas already out of like school blah blah
blah. And I went on thislike retreat, this really big retreat that
was a big deal for me,for like a week, and when I
came back, I was like,hey, so when am I going to
see you again? This and that. It's like, oh, well,
you know, it's not the timeright now, Like you know, I
think I want to do my ownthing, like it's you know, and
(14:31):
I'm not I'm not ready for arelationship. And I was like, dang,
Like all I could do. AllI could do was act like I
wasn't hurt, but like you werehurt that you know. I thought this
was going well and we stayed friendsand whatever, and then she like came
to my graduation, she met myfamily, blah blah blah, and that
night, you know, we hadlike a real like intimate moment. And
from then on, like we kindof started what does an intimate moment mean?
(14:54):
Nothing too crazy, you know,like it was just her and I.
We were watching a movie. Westarted you know like cut aling physical
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,okay, but not like you know,
like we didn't like have sex oranything like that, and that you know,
it was just you know, somethinglike that. And then we both
kind of realized that, you know, we like each other. And she
actually made the first you know moveto be like, hey, you know
what let's try this again, andthen again it didn't work out. Okay,
(15:16):
but and it was it was againheard not me. So wait during
the retreat time, though, wereyou communicating with each other because us I
date then you okay, so no, because that's it was like one of
those retreats where you're not allowed tohave your feel like but and that's kind
of what happened. If you blamethe retreat for no, absolutely, Well,
I don't know. If you goin and if we go on a
(15:37):
date and it's going well, andI'm thinking, Okay, there's a vibe
and we kiss and all that stuff, and I'm thinking there's gonna be a
lot of follow up, meaning eithertexting or talking to each other all the
time or facetiming. But then yougo away for a week. I don't
know. On the other side,I might be thinking where what happened?
Like she didn't go to we maybelike you can kind of maybe lose interest
a little bit. And she knewthat I was going on this You told
(16:00):
her? Oh no, yeah,yeah, of course, of course communication
is super big for me, solike obviously, like he is an anomaly,
Yeah yeah, So like I obviouslytold her I'm not going to just
like go through for a week,like unless that's my intention, right to
ask, right, But you didn't, and then you had you kind of
came back together and then you're stillgood friends, but you decided you know,
yeah, we're still we're still goodfriends. She has her boyfriend now
(16:21):
or whatever, but we're good friends. And that's that's usually like how it
goes. Like I'll you know,message them, like you know, say
that and then kind of see whereit happens, where it goes, and
it usually doesn't go anywhere. Sothat that that that makes me question,
right, like am I the problem? Like maybe it's not them, Maybe
it's me. You know, you'regentleman, we love you, but no
(16:45):
you so are you still doing thison Instagram or are you talking about different
apps Instagram? Yeah? I don't. I like I haven't really been dating
recently. Okay, what happened?I was going on with this girl for
a while for a couple of months. And how you met her? I
met her at school? Well actuallyI had seen her on social media before.
(17:06):
We had texted a little bit,but it never went anywhere. And
then she went to I hope shedoesn't hear this, but she went to
the same school that I did.H it is the same college. And
one day we were just texting andshe's like, I was like, oh,
where are you. She's like,oh, I'm you know, at
school. And I was like,oh, well I'm here too, blah
blah blah. And then she justkind of came because I worked at an
office there. She came to myjob and like she would just come like
(17:30):
once a week and just hang outwith me. And that's where that connection
kind of started. Okay, andthen at first it wasn't supposed to be
anything serious, but eventually it kindof turned serious. And this time,
like I was the one that messedup. I knew. It was like
it was definitely my fault. Whatdid you do? It was going it
was going really well. Actually itwas going really well. But wait,
I want to say, Amanda,he did do something wrong. It wasn't
(17:53):
like I didn't I didn't like cheaton her or anything like that. Like
up to my understanding, to myknowledge, it was we were both exclusive,
you know, we weren't seeing otherPEPs, right, but it was
like we came to a point wherenobody had really communicated whether we were serious
or not, but I thought thatwe were, and I assumed that she
(18:15):
also thought we were. Ah,this is where it all gets fucked up,
right, these mind games like mindreading. And I'm just going to
share this with you. I wastalking, well, one of my patients
a couple of weeks ago. Ican share this because nobody knows who this
person is. We were talking literallyabout exactly what your experience, you experience
in that relationship. She was datingthis person probably for a couple of months.
(18:37):
And then this whole conversation and theydid meet online. Uh, came
up about exclusivity. Are we monogamouswith each other? And then she was
talking to me but I said,well, I'm hoping, but I think
we are. And we kind ofjoked about it and I said to her,
I said, and she's in herfor I said, why do you
not just ask him? And shesaid, no, I can't ask him.
I'm going to come across too needy. Blah blah blah bah blah.
(19:00):
Anyway, it is just shit hitthe fan. And of course somebody was
on you know, somebody was onan app and they got caught looking at
somebody else, right, So I'mlike, oh, why didn't you have
this conversation because they the other personassumed her partners at the time assumed that
they were not monogamous. She assumedthat they were monogamous, but they kind
(19:22):
of played mind games with it andit wasn't very clear. And I'm like,
why are you going to make itso complicated? If that's what you
want, right, you did itwith the man, if that's what you're
looking for. Ye, yeah,we've talked about You had the conversation,
right, It wasn't this. I'mtalking to my therapist about it, but
I'm not talking to you about it. And a therapist is saying, and
I was saying, talk to himabout it. If it's important to you
(19:44):
want to be exclusive, talk tohim about it. Blew up anyway,
because of this dance that they weredoing around like are we exclusive? Are
we not? So? Yeah,you got it. That's kind of what
happened the same again, it blewup in your face. Has a conversation
friends, That's what I'm saying.If you're dating somebody, however you you
met them and you want to beexclusive, ask them and tell them how
you feel, what you think aboutit, and that you want to be
(20:07):
And if they don't, that's okay. You're in a different place and then
you can make a decision whether you'regoing to continue the relationship or not.
Like you did Ryan, you decided, well, I want exclusivity and if
you don't, then we need tokind of move on. Yeah, and
you know, I feel like ifit's I don't know, meant to be
whatever that means, but like youdon't. We ended up come back together
and now we're married. Now they'remarried, and yeah, I mean it's
(20:27):
not great. I mean now thatshe's not here, I could I can
actually be honest like my marriage sucked. Bulls. Okay, So then that's
the issue that you had. Yeahbodywas sure, but we because okay,
so we had talked about it likebefore. That's saying like, you know,
we're not seeing other people. Butthis is this thing and I hate
(20:48):
it where people will be like,oh, yeah, we're talking. It's
like, what does that mean we'retalking exactly? I guess it's I guess
some kind of agreement that it's likeyou're not talking to anybody else, like
just me. But I thought wewere dating, like we were going on
dates. To me, dating isyou know, you're going out you're going
on dates, you know, likethis and that, blah blah blah,
Like we weren't you know, boyfriendand girlfriend, but we were, you
(21:10):
know, going out on dates andall this stuff. Oh wait, does
that then mean to you that you'redating her but you're also dating other people?
No? No, no, no, that's the thing. Nobody was
dating other people. Yeah, yeah, nobody was there, ye yeah,
yeah. But it came to thepoint where she was like, so are
we talking? And I was like, uh, I, you know,
like I thought we kind of wereright, And then she was like,
well, nobody really you never reallysaid it, so I assumed we weren't.
(21:32):
She's like, and I'm not gonnaI'm not going to like assume something
that's not there if you don't sayit. Yeah, Like like a lot
of people will say that the labelsdon't matter, or some people say labels
do matter. Right, So thenwhen she was like, oh, well,
are we talking or not? AndI was like, oh, like,
well are we? And then Ikind of got in my head and
like, you know, it kindof started like spiraling on my own and
(21:56):
yeah, man, do I reallywant this? Like yeah, And and
then everybody was telling me like oh, you know you're stupid. You know
you should you should stay with herlike this and that and blah blah blah,
Like you know, I see theway that she looks at you,
you know you, I've never seenyou like this happy. And it was
true. I was super happy whenI was out here, and then you
(22:18):
know whatever. I was like sure, yeah, we're we're talking. But
then like I went, I left, I left on another trip and then
I came back and afterwards I waslike, you know what, I don't
think this is what I want,Like you know, when I cut it
off, and I like recognized thatthat was like my bad. I like
telling her, yeah, this iswhat I want, and then like you
want and then telling her yeah,because I think that time where I was
able to be alone and like awayfrom from like just everything like made me
(22:41):
realize like not I don't think,you know, I don't think that's what
I want. And I think thepart of the problem is just like like
I was talking to Anita earlier,and Ryan knows this too, like I've
never had like an actual girlfriend,you know, like where it's boyfriend girlfriend.
I mean, honestly, it soundslike you kind of did. But
like your generation is like decided tohave like a lot of ridiculously sure yeah
(23:03):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yesyou have. You just described two relationships
to me. Yeah yeah, I'mthe first one, like the one that
I did tell you wasn't as seriousas the second one was, because you
know, like we went on multipledates, like more than I can count
on my hands, and in myopinion, there were dates, right yeah,
but I feel like I just gottoo comfortable being single. Yea,
So now I just like don't wantto and can't not be What are you
(23:27):
afraid of commitment? I guess comment. And I talked to her actually about
that, and she understood and shewas like, well, whenever you're ready,
like blah blah blah. This isbefore like I had gone on that
trip and she's like, well,you know, I understand, it's this
and that and blah blah blah.And then turns out she didn't understand,
(23:48):
and you know, came at meand was like, why don't you want
to be with me this and thatand blah blah blah. And that's when
I decided like, okay, yeah, I do want to be with you,
and okay, and I came backand you did it hit the fat.
But this is very interesting to mebecause I'm an older generation than you.
This whole word about talking. Solet me make sure I understand you
clearly. So if you in thisgeneration, if you say, well,
yeah, we are talking, itdoesn't mean what I think. Yeah we're
(24:11):
talking, of course we're talking.Yeah, it means what we're dating.
We're exclusive, I guess to me, like, no, I don't know.
I would like more than just seeingeach other from what I understand.
Okay, well that is exclusive,I guess, but I never, like,
I never really got it. I'mso confusing, no better and no
wonder. Relationships are so fun.Think the language I think we're talking,
(24:36):
Like the term talking is also avery like childish thing, like when you're
like, I guess I'm technically anadult, right, but like when you're
an adult, it's like, ameither dating you or I'm not. You
know, that's like what I like, what I would say, Well,
this is a big problem today becauseagain, like I talked about my patient,
are we dating meaning we're dating,but I'm also dating five other people
(25:00):
because it's like an interviewing process.I'm dating you, I'm going to date
John over here, I'm going tofigure out which one I like the most,
and it's an mutual process. Yeah, Or for some people, we're
dating means we're exclusive. We needto define the terms because that's where you
get into trouble. Oh, absolutelyright. When would you define it as
though? Well, I think ifwe're dating, I'm going on a date
with you one date, but thenI would assume that you're also dating other
(25:22):
women unless we've had the conversation andwe've gone on multiple dates. But the
first date, I wouldn't assume thatyou're exclusive with me. No, right
after the first or even the secondor the third. When I met my
partner, we basically said to eachother, Okay, I'm off all the
apps, we're going to be exclusiveand that, and I needed to hear
that, he needed to hear that, and everything worked out fine. But
(25:45):
it's these people that I work withtoday, and I'm just listening to you
now, I'm like, oh mygod, the language would totally fucked me
up. I'm so glad I'm todo a twenty year old terminology. We're
talking, we're dating and what arewe like? Relationships? We've made them
so much more complicated through this digitaldating process, which I think can be
great, but we need to definewhat we're define the terms. The language
(26:07):
is different. Yeah, absolutely,And I mean how frustrating is it?
You know too, where you're kindof like maybe you even use a different
like the same word, but theyview it as a different thing. They
interpret it somewhere different too, Soit's like, how do you even know
where you are? And like whatcan you say? I would use exact
(26:30):
terminology, say are we exclusive orI want to be exclusive? Are we
interested in exclusivity in the near future? Maybe in the near future. Do
you think this is going somewhere?Do you like, do you want to
be I mean, so Diego,you're not part of the hookup culture right
now, but you also want tobe not exclusively dating. So what is
(26:51):
it about your freedom that you feellike you would be losing? Dude,
I don't even know. That's awhole nother show. Get into that a
little bit. Say it's the fearof commitment, right, yeah, yeah,
and the fear of commitment. Yeah, I think so for me,
like a big thing is like Iwas, like I said, I was
(27:11):
a musician. I went to allthese gigs. There are a lot of
beautiful girls there, and I'm notone to like ever like say like I'm
going to cheat on a girl,right, but there's obviously that like home
man, like you're tempted, you'reyeah, yeah, yeah, always yeah,
absolutely yeah, and I'm not I'mnot going to do it. But
(27:32):
then I feel bad when it's likewhen it's like, well I really shouldn't
shouldn't be like looking at all theseother women and thinking anything if if I'm
supposed to be with this, weare lesson. We are all human,
especially at the age of twenty.Like the young people that I work with
today, I'm like, why tieyourself up and you know, make this
(27:53):
commitment. If you're really still lookingfor other people, just say you know,
I don't want to be exclusive.I'm dating people. You can say
that and then you're you're not goingto get hurt. The other person is
not going to get hurt, andit's clear. And I think for somebody
who's in their twenties, I thinkyou should play the field. I get
worried when people tie themselves up atsuch a young age. It's okay,
it's called a dating process. It'slike when you're looking for a job,
(28:15):
you're going to look for multiple jobs. You're not going to tell one employee
I'm cheating on you because I'm applyingover there. Oh for sure. You're
going through a process, and Ithink young people like yourself. Yeah,
especially I'm being a musician. You'reon the road. These women, you
know, girls are like all hotfor you because girls girls are musicians.
You know. It makes it alot easier. And then you're not setting
(28:37):
yourself up for failure for cheating likeyou're saying, because you can say,
hey, I'm dating, but youknow, I'm a free agent and I
kind of like my freedom right now. But if you want to get together
when I'm in town or whatever,that's great. But the important part is
having those conversations which people don't have, and then they get into this oh
my god, am I cheating becauseI'm looking at this girl? Yeah?
I mean obviously, like I know, if I like get a girl,
(29:00):
I'm like, oh my god,you know, I'm not cheating hot right,
Like I'm not cheating, But there'sstill that that's like part in me
where it's like, well, doyou know I have this girl you know
where I'm from that is like,you know, really likes me, and
I really like her. So whyam I like twenty It doesn't turn off?
I mean, I feel like youhave to be honest, like,
(29:22):
yeah, I talked to Amanda,like we've we've talked about like oh that
girl has nice boobs or look atthat thing at that or whatever it might
be. Because that doesn't mean thatyou're all of a sudden gonna like you're
not going to act on it.Yeah, and it's not. And I
don't feel guilty about it because justbecause you get married or in your relationship
all of that, that part ofyour brain doesn't stop. But that's and
it shouldn't die, right, Andyeah, visual id my all kinds of
(29:47):
different bodies and doesn't mean I'm goingto act on it. But somehow if
we look at somebody else, likeI'll be with my part I'm like,
wow, she's beautiful, look atthat, right, doesn't mean anything.
I'm able to admire both genders andI'm not bisexual. Yeah he is beauty,
right, it is, you know, And I think, yeah,
you're talking about you know, othermen and women, as long as you're
(30:07):
not making it into like some weirdsort of like sexual thing with your partner.
Yeah, Like but you let's let'sjust be real, Like, I
mean, there are a lot ofattractive humans in the world, and I
think it's okay to take a peekevery once in a while. Like,
you know, you're in Target andyou see, you know, a hot
chick. You the Grafton Target ismy favorite people. But yeah, you
(30:36):
know, you you sneak a quickpeek, but then you then you go
back to shopping, you know.Yeah, yeah, you're right, you
don't you don't sit there And no, I mean, why are we the
unhinge ones? We are the oldones and you're the young one. But
I do want to say I don'tthink it's correct or proper appropriate when you're
on a date with your significant other, even if you know you've been if
(30:59):
it's a date, don't check outother people, especially yeah, yeah,
especially seen that. I was like, seriously, dude, you're with your
wife and girlfriend and like you're basicallygoogling, googling at this other person's totally
rooted unacceptable target, your target,especially I guess saying hey, this is
like hot people in this target.I need to come here more often,
(31:21):
never mind one in Milwaukee. It'syeah, it's you know, I think
I think too it's just like you, Yeah, you got to also remember
that, like you get to bein a relationship with someone where you get
to have a like probably your bestfriend that you get to also fuck.
Like that is basically being in arelationship is awesome, you know. So
(31:41):
like, I don't know why peopleare afraid of don't you think though that
that's that could be a problem.Like this person's your best friend and you're
hooking up with them, seeing everyday, but if you break up,
you're like, fuck, I don'thave my best friend anymore because no realistically
realistic. But that's part suffering.You know, we talked about it in
the last parts. But who wantsto suffer? All this is this is
where they use is coming. Justtell you life is suffering. You will
(32:05):
suffer in many ways in your life. You're twenty now. The suffering continues
and then you unfuck that suffering bygetting some help, going to therapy or
just learning from the experiences. Butyou you will have suffering in your life,
like I tell my kids, youguaranteed you will have suffering, But
you need to experience the suffering,go through the suffering to get to the
other side, to learn something fromit is when people get stuck in the
(32:30):
suffering and they can't deal with it. We do live in a culture of
oh my god, everything everything isso soft, right, I don't want
to feel paid. It's part oflife. You will get to the other
side, you'll be stronger, andthen you go on and you have another
suffering. Suffering is part of life. Sorry, but if you if you
go through life saying I'm not goingto do anything because I don't want to
(32:51):
save the potential of suffering, thenyou're never going to be happy. Like
life is all about a lot ofreally good and a lot of really bad.
And you know, it's life's waytoo short to be like afraid of
trying to do so, you know, and relationships will you will have the
worst of times and you will havethe best of times, and they will
involve suffering. Because we talked aboutattachment and detachment in the last in the
(33:14):
last episode, if you guys listento it, basically that relationships are all
about detaching and attaching, and thatcomes from how do we do that in
our family of virgin If you guysremember from the last episode, and when
we detach from somebody we love,whether it's our choice or not, guess
what we are going to suffer.But it's when we can change with that
(33:35):
new reality that our suffering becomes lessand less each time. Get ready to
suffer, my friends. Yeah,no, no, I've definitely been through
a lot, a lot of thingsthat you know, this young age.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Imean, and the thing is, like
diego, you and I were talkingabout this last week. I do I
(33:58):
feel that men hurt a little bitharder than women with some with breakups,
at least into my experiences, it'sa woman could you know, like get
broken up with or break up withsomeone, go out and find another guy
like that. It's so much harderfor for for like in my opinion,
right, But that's interesting perspective.Why do you think what makes you think
(34:20):
that that it's so much easier forwomen to like find because I've seen it
done, you know, like it'sit's so much if I don't know,
like if I if I go upto a girl like and be like,
hey, I think you're pretty blahblah blah, this and that, and
we talked the whole night, likethe chances of me going home with her
are probably very very low, youknow, if like it's something that I
want. But it's if if agirl goes out and she's like, tonight,
(34:43):
I'm going to go find a guyto hook up. I feel like
it's a lot, it's so much, so much easier. And why it's
because men are stupid, Like tobe honest, I'm not going to disagree,
to be honest, That's what itis. Maybe more okay, yeah,
I also, I don't know,but we were just I know we
were talking to and I just feellike after breakups, I always feel like
I'm definitely suffering more than what makesyou feel that because I work with a
(35:07):
lot of women who are I'm sure, I'm sure my own Yeah, I
mean, I guess it's my ownpersonal experience and and maybe just you know,
some other people that I've talked to. I feel like it doesn't last
that long for me. But likewhen I have gotten broken up with or
things haven't worked out, it's likethere's like, you know, a couple
of weeks where it's like I'm fuckingmessed up, right, and then like
(35:30):
and then you wake up one dayand it's like, oh, Okay,
I'm gonna be a little bit better, a little bit better I'm gonna have
to say that. I think it'sbecause I as a woman, I think,
you know, we suffer equally.Well, you're saying maybe you suffer
more, but I think it's oursuffering is different, and how we process
it is different. Women have lotsof other women, They have a network
(35:52):
that they go they take their sufferingtoo, and then they work it out
and talk it out, where Ithink for men, most they keep the
suffering inside of themselves, which makesit harder. Right. Men don't want
to be vulnerable to another guy ortheir family to say, hey, oh
my god, I'm so depressed andheartbroken over this breakup. They want to
(36:12):
be the alpha men and their significantother is always that person that they go
to with their suffering, where womenhave ten other women that can go to
and talk about the suffering. Maybethat's why. I mean, that's a
great point, because yeah, likeAmanda is really the only person. Yeah,
I'm like really like going through someshit. Yeah, she's the one
that I would kind of talk to. Yeah, Like you know, there's
something like Diego is interesting because Ifeel like I could talk to him about
(36:36):
stuff. I think we've decided he'san anomaly. Yeah, like you know,
like you, we can't generalize,but pretty much any of my other
guy friends like I'm not going tohave like no, you're not. So
that then our suffering appears to beless. But it's because we are just
going to our friends, going forour family. That's what I've done with
my suffering. When I'm suffering,I'm like, oh my God, I
(36:57):
call my I need to for meto work it out, I need to
talk it out. And I thinkfor men, for them to work it
out, they internalize and they thinkabout it a lot, but they're not
necessarily talking and processing. That's changingslowly because I would say the majority of
my patients right now are men,and that's like a that's a huge shift
because generally it's women. But Ithink now when men are starting to realize,
(37:19):
hey, wait a minute, Ineed to talk this out. I
can't keep all the suffering inside ofmyself. And maybe I just go to
a therapist because I don't want tobother my friend, I don't want to
bother my family, or I don'twant to make myself vulnerable to any of
these people. But I'll go andget some help from somebody else, which
is great because we all need towork it out. But there's different ways
of working out the suffering. Thinkit through, talk it through. We
need a combination of both. Ithink about it, but I generally need
(37:44):
to talk it through, as youguys know, that's what I do.
Talk to talk about it helps.So that's a very interesting point. Where
do we take our suffering and howdo we process? And you're talking about
that, right, you think womenrebound much quicker, but maybe that's the
reason they do. We just talkabout it. You got more and more
stuff to talk to. Yeah,I don't know. I feel like it's
interesting to you talking about therapy,like you're saying you're having more male clients.
(38:06):
You know, I don't feel likeI could have a male therapist.
I feel so much more comfortable withthe woman with anything, and and it
has nothing to do with anything likesexual attractiveness, Like, no, it's
completely it's just like I don't know, maybe because like it has always been
that my girlfriend has been or wifehas been the person that I talked to
(38:28):
about stuff that we feel that way, or like because I don't talk to
dudes like well, I'll tell you. As a therapist. In my training,
Yeah, we study this like howit's not by it's not random that
you choose a male or a female. It is really based on what you're
going to be what what what doyou bring to the table in terms of
your own childhood and what you're tryingto work out. Right, I had
(38:50):
a man, and I chose aman because I had a lot of daddy
issues. I thought, I itwas random, but really it was not
random. When the whole therapy,you know, came to an end because
I moved, not because I wantedit to, it became very clear I
needed to work out my daddy issueswith somebody who was like a dad to
me. And my therapist ended upbeing like a father to me. So
I was able to replay, recreatesome of that trauma and then work it
(39:14):
out with him. I would literallyget mad at him, but I was
projecting because I was experiencing like mydad, He's rejecting me, And he
would say, I'm not your dad, I'm not rejecting you. This is
a different experience. But I wentdeeper than that. But I also think
men choose women as their therapist,well like a mommy issues perhaps, but
also it's easier to make yourself vulnerableto a woman than to go to a
(39:36):
guy and say, hey, youknow, I'm feeling very vulnerable. I'm
hurt. We don't want to domen don't want to do that with other
men in generally speaking, and womenare the nurturers. We take on hunting
and gathering, right, what dowe do? Our job is to nurture
and to heal and to help.So I just wanted my mom to love
me more when I was younger.Well, you're able to open up to
Amanda. So if you went fortherapy, you want a woman because you're
(39:59):
going to feel like just nursery andcomforting and that for sure. So then
and everything you're saying, there's alot of research to back that up.
But that's okay. But it's gettinguh and getting guys to talk to one
another and normalizing that it's okay.We can take our suffering to our bros.
You know, you know, yeah, speaking on that, like I
(40:19):
did another analoe, right, Butlike I feel like I can talk to
my guy friends and be like hey, and I have before I've been like
hey, dude, like today,I'm just really not feeling it. Like
I've had a lot, I've hadmy fair share of emotional issues, right,
And I've talked to my friends suffering. You've had a lot of suffering,
sure, yeah, yeah, andthey know that, you know,
they've known. I've also got goneto therapy before. But like all my
friends know that I've struggled a lot, and I can talk to them,
(40:40):
and I feel like I can talkto them. I feel comfortable telling them,
hey, guys, like I'm notfeeling very well, you know,
like this is what's going on,right, So I really yeah, yeah,
I definitely can see though that likehow other people, you know,
or like other men don't feel comfortabletalking to their other guy friends. But
also I'm like my relationships, likemy friendships were like family, you know,
(41:05):
like we're super close. But Ialso think that's cultural because you're Latina.
That's very similar to Indian culture,where you know, men do share
much more emotionally and also physically,Like if you went to India, you'd
see guys holding hands like that.Yeah, yeah, they're very comfortable with
each other physically. That's probably becausethey're you know, culturally not supposed to
do that with their wives. It'sactually, you know, quite the opposite,
(41:28):
like in the Hispanic culture, theman's supposed to be. That's where
the word my cheese moll comes from, you know, like he's supposed to
be the macho man, like hecan't show emotions this and that and blah
blah blah. And the thing thatI feel was different for me growing up
was because I have a brother,I have two sisters, you know,
my mom and my dad. Mydad when I was growing up wasn't home
all the time because he was alwaysworking, and my brother was already grown.
(41:50):
So I grew up with my momand my two sisters. So there's
definitely there could be that like feminine, you know, like yeah, no,
absolutely, yeah, my stepdad wasn'treally around. Yeah, and like
I just had my sisters, sothen you don't learn to do that right,
emulate that that could that that couldvery well be why I'm so comfortable,
you know, sharing stuff with myfriends. And also like you know,
(42:15):
like classically, yeah, in inin Latino especially Mexican culture, like
men are supposed to be you know, fearless and supposed to care and blah
blah blah and this and that.But I think as we're growing older,
even my parents, like I knowthat in their times it was like that,
but like now my parents are definitelygetting a lot more emotional and and
(42:37):
you know, like show us moremore more of their their emotional side.
Yeah. Yeah, and my friendstoo, you know, Like I think,
I think we're just evolving and andand we're able to kind of see
like, hey, it's not bad. I think you should start lecturing young
people giving so seriously. You talkabout your emotions, you're not afraid to
be you want to meet people inthe real world, not online. I'm
(43:00):
like Jesus, that is pretty crazy. Yeah, I don't know. I
think there's some I mean that ispart of this your generation now, which
is so much better. Like,you know, if I think about like
when I was in high school,be like feelings, yeah, you know,
like you know, all of asudden, you're probably gonna get you're
(43:20):
gonna get made fun of, beatup, right, Yeah, you know
it's that, you know. Nowit's I think it's a little bit more.
Okay. I think we talk aboutstuff. Yeah, and I think
that's great, I think, butI do want to say we talk about
we talk about the stuff, butdo we actually do it. I still
think there's a huge gap between thedoing part. Even though you know,
(43:42):
it's changing, just like in myprivate practice, more men are coming.
There is still that stigma. ButI'm so happy to hear, you know,
talk to Diego and have him inthe studio today. He's talking about
how you're able to do that withyour friends. Now, how did they
receive it? They receive it prettywell, I'm assuming because you keep doing
it. Yeah, yeah, theyshare with you well, oh yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, for most of the times they
(44:07):
do share with with me. Mostof my most of my friends also like
are in a relationship. They havetheir girlfriends and and that's actually that's another
thing, Like I'm also like superclose to their to their to their girlfriends.
They're all like we're all like they'reall like brothers and sisters to me,
Like they're like family to me.So I have this whole like support
system and they all know that I'vestruggled and all this kind of stuff.
(44:27):
So you know, even when I'mnot like if they can tell, they'll
be like, hey, you know, like are you okay, like you
know what's going on, But theyalways receive it super well, and like
we can like they have come tome for sure and been like Hey,
you know today I'm just not feelingit or this is what's going on,
you know, And I try tosupport them as as well as I can
as much as I can. Yeah, well, diego. We are going
to have you back on this showbecause there's so much more to unpack the
(44:51):
commitment stuff going on. But Ilove the fact that you are so you
make yourself so vulnerable to your friends. You seem to have a really good
support system, and you're totally theother way around on the online dating.
But you shared some of those experienceswith us with us today. Thank you.
But I love the fact that youwhat thanks for having me. Yeah,
(45:12):
of course, but we're going tohave you back. But the fact
that you want to go out andmeet people in the real world and date
is amazing to me. And Ithink there is a bit of a backlash
and swinging back the other way,yeah, which is positive, Like,
Okay, not everything can be achievedonline, and we shouldn't always be seeking
it online. That we can actuallygo back to our communities and meet other
(45:34):
people. And we talked about,you know, one of the most important
things I want people to take awaytoday is have to talk about are we
exclusive or are we not? Becausewhen we talk to the women about online
dating or dating in general, andthen you today confirming again there is this
language, and there's all these gamesthat are going on mind games. Are
we talking? Are we dating?What is this called? Just has the
(45:57):
conversation? Are we exclusive? Arewe not? For not? It's okay,
but let's talk about Yeah, enoughwith the nonsense. Yeah, all
the games. I think you nailedit. I mean, that's exactly what
one of the chapters in my book, Unfuck mind reading. We're not going
to read each other's mind if wejust simply choose to have the conversation.
Thank you so much, Diego forcoming on the show today, and of
course thank you to Ryan for beingmy co host. And we will unfuck
(46:22):
life next time. Guys. Yeah, we're going to get Amanda back here
with Diego though. I feel yeah, we got a lot to talk about.
Diego, you're going to become aregular on this show. I mean
you're already here. Yeah, studio, we love him. Thank you,
Diego. Okay, guys, havea great week, take care until next
time. Unfuck Your Life and Relationshipswas recorded it High five Studio, Walkee,
(46:45):
Wisconsin. Oh Fuck your Life,odd fuck your life,
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