August 31, 2019 • 29 mins
In our third episode, we continue a two-part conversation with three actors who quit the union, and then wanted to get back in.
UW Voices: Mike Nelson, Kevin Ashworth, and Bob Stephenson
UW Guests: Kelly Pendygraft, Shannon Holmes, and Lowell Northrop
UnionWorking Links:
- Bob Stephenson on IMDb
- Kevin Ashworth on IMDb
- Mike Nelson on IMDb
Guests and Topical Links:
- Kelly Pendygraft on IMDb
- Shannon Holmes on IMDb
- Lowell Northrop on IMDb
- SAG-AFTRA page on Financial Core: "We encourage you to contact Ka’Coyia Friend, Manager of Financial Core, by calling (323) 549-6019 or call your local office directly to get all the facts about financial core."
Email us at info@unionworking.com
The UnionWorking Podcast is recorded at Culver City Studios
Executive Producer Jack Levy
http://podcastsage.com / jack@podcastsage.com / 818-233-0640
UnionWorking.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And we're rolling on the union working podcast at
Culver City Studios with PodcastSage.
UnionWorking is a grassrootsorganization of film, Television
and commercial performers ofSag-aftra.
You're dedicated to solutions,ideas, and creating a union that
works for all of us, so we hopeyou'll enjoy our informative,
entertaining and hopefullyirreverent podcast about the
(00:27):
challenges facing the modern dayunion actor.
We support a membership drivenmembership up model because
Speaker 3 (00:35):
[inaudible].
Speaker 4 (00:35):
That is correct.
Now starting part two of ourepisode regarding financial core
or by core a where we left offbefore we were talking about
these three guests.
We have Kelly Pendergraph,Lowell, Northrop.
Hello Shannon Holmes.
I am Mike C.
Nelson.
I am one of the core members ofunion working and we have a two
(00:56):
other corps members here.
We have Bob Stevenson and Bob[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (00:59):
and Kevin Ashworth and I am Kevin Ashworth and
we're appreciative for our threeguests.
Doing a good brief thing today.
Yeah,
Speaker 4 (01:05):
so thankful for you guys being here with us to day.
So where we left off, we weretalking about what was the
moment that you wanted to comeback to the union.
What was a series of events oran event that you can remember?
So we talked to Kelly andShannon and episode one.
So we left off with Lowell.
Was there a one event or aseries of events where you're
like,
Speaker 3 (01:25):
just a series of getting auditions.
They weren't paying well,they're just crap.
So I just was getting sick ofthat.
So I moved a little further awayfrom, you know, still I could
make the commute, but it wasgoing to take a lot more for me
to want to drive the extra 45minutes hour to get to an
audition.
And I'm not going to do that forsomething that pays 500 bucks or
1000 bucks.
So I honestly, I kind of dippedmy toe into the whole ficor
(01:45):
thing.
I didn't do it for very long.
So I think 2017 2018 and then byearly 2018 as I tried to reach
out to sag and say, Hey, I wantback in, I'm not liking it.
And I like in this ficorbullshit.
It was just these, these crappypaying gigs and then this a lot
of spokesman roles a lot.
And it was like, Hey, and youknow, memorize that, copy it
(02:06):
open the pdf.
It'd be like four pages of just,and I'm like, I'm not doing this
for$1,000.
Yeah.
Cause I'm not good with words orI'm not good with that many
words.
So I'm good with like the[inaudible] and go like, yeah,
I'm good with the[inaudible]give me a line.
Yeah.
Face acting.
I can, I can do the face actingand then like one or two lines,
you know, you gonna even me.
Four pages of copy.
(02:27):
You better pay me the big bucksright now.
Serious.
You three guys.
When you were five court, didyou feel Kelly's a lady?
That's true.
You two guys, that's three gals[inaudible] to come on.
What all ladies?
Um, did you feel a weird
Speaker 4 (02:46):
about being ficor, did that have anything to do
with your decision as well orwas it like a money thing or it
was like these bad jobs?
Did you feel weird about likeyour other friends and cohorts
and other actors that you werelike, I'm Kinda doing this and
did you feel like you couldn'ttalk to them openly and honestly
about it or you didn't want tolet on that you were ficor ah,
Speaker 5 (03:06):
yes.
Oh my God, I was so embarrassed.
I remember going in and hiding,signing in to auditions, seeing
all the people that I know overhere, sitting in, in front of
this doorway, number one.
And I'm a doorway number two andI'm like trying to blend in with
them.
Like I am going in that room.
(03:27):
So embarrassing guys.
Oh yeah.
I had so much shame and I nevertold people if I did I would
kind of like measure thetemperature on whether I should
say it or not because I wasembarrassed completely.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
I've owned it right away, but I didn't go out for
it.
Cause I had the agent for quitea while.
He wouldn't have his name on anonunion stuff and so it would
be just things what I would beworking and the casting director
would have another room orsomething that I was running
that was non United.
Ask what the rate was and stuff.
They'd say, Oh, you should go infor it.
I'm like, oh, that's kind of ashitty rate.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It didn't seem like it was very couple of guys.
Right.
But then it also kind of justdwindled.
It started feeling just shitty.
But that was scabbing.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, cause we've heard from some people, some
people are unabashed and don'tcare.
They're like, I want to act whenI want to.
You can't tell me otherwise.
They listen to this podcast.
They're not going to care likethey have it rationalized.
But more of the people thatwe've seen come back, you guys
included in some of our friendshave felt that shame just felt
icky.
It felt shitty.
I didn't like doing thisanymore.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah.
In fact, a friend of mine wasficor early this year and he
encouraged somebody else not todo it.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Oh, that's great.
He was reinstated.
Ban Plastic.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
When I talked to you, Bob, we were talking about your
union.
You're working into that,talking about how I've started
the process of coming back and Isaw just Jolie on your face.
Oh yeah.
But then you had told me no,there, there, there are a lot of
people in the union that knowthat you're ficor, but you'd
probably don't know that you're[inaudible].
And I'm like, cause I know,
Speaker 3 (04:59):
oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Oh, I didn't know.
Sweet.
We know we not go well.
Again, we have friends that arein casting that are agents,
managers run session so they cansee and be like, oh, I saw so
and so doing.
I knew it for a long time, but Ihadn't said anything either.
So there was really sweet whenit came up, it just popped up by
chance.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I knew you were.
And you know why is you got ajob that I was on avail for, but
I was like, no way.
He's ficor.
There's no way because theyconsider you like a heavy
hitter.
I think you're what?
A Dick.
You were just a little bitbetter than me that day.
Oh yeah.
No, but I was very surprisedcause I was like maybe they went
union on this one.
It was a grilling thing.
(05:39):
But yeah, when I saw the sod airand I saw you, I really thought
there's no way because you are,you are, you were a heavy hitter
.
You're a guy who books a lot.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
I would be on set, I recall two different times it
was on set where the directorwould come up to me and say,
you're all great.
Why are you non-union?
Well I'm not, and then you haveto go into the explanation of
that whole thing.
But I think they're also, youknow, there is a level of talent
that they think they're going toget and that they should get if
(06:09):
they're going to make their job.
Nonunion.
Sure.
You know, it's like we're makingour talents.
We work at what we do, we'reprofessionals and we come with a
level of professionality when wego to work.
And they should pay for that.
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
No your words.
No, but that, that is what thatis.
Right.
And he's like, there's a wholeouting campaign from a guy on
Twitter, Ralph Mathers, and wedon't know who this person is,
but yeah, he'll put up scab ofthe week and he'll just throw up
people who are doing, so he puta big name up there.
I don't know if I need to sayhis name, but he put a big name
up there and it exploded.
And it was, I mean there wasprobably 150 things going.
(06:44):
Yeah, go on.
Going off on him.
And I had reposted it soeveryone thought it came from
[inaudible] Wayne saying, I knowthis guy really well.
Yeah.
And but it's a good thing.
But it was yet then whathappened was, it was exactly
what you were saying is that asession runner said to him, you
know why we're pissed at you?
Because when you're doing anonunion thing, I've been in the
room when you come in the roomand when you leave the room,
(07:06):
every producer behind us is ifwe can get this kind of talent,
why don't we do everything now?
Yeah, exactly.
That's what we all told them.
Like, this is your fucking right,
Speaker 4 (07:13):
rob, when you're not getting paid for your scrutiny,
everybody, I go do that lessonsat for every year on my slate
choice, and that's it.
That's where you're right.
If your needs meet the monththat we, the strength of
sag-aftra comes from the abilityto withhold talents.
That's it.
Right?
Yeah, it's true.
And again, like that's ourbiggest leverage.
If you want to use Tom Hanks oryou want to use Kelly as a
(07:33):
spokesman for your thing, it'slike you've got to pay a rate.
You've got to pay a rate that'sworthy of their talent.
[inaudible] business folks,right?
Yeah.
You've got to pay rate.
We've all worked with directorsand it's like, I've talked with
them about this and we're like,how is it to cast non-union?
Oh, their heads go back.
Their eyes roll and they'relike, oh my loss and her, it
(07:53):
takes more time.
So they're paying for, like wegot to casting, they don't pay
casting that much money.
So castings working longer, likeyou're running longer sessions
where you're seeing 200 peoplein like a day, which is obscene.
Yeah.
For a horrible Tom, the actors,the talent isn't there and
you're doing multiple days ormultiple rooms.
(08:15):
Just the whole thing is likerace to the bottom.
Yeah.
It's a vicious cycle.
It's not good
Speaker 5 (08:20):
really quickly.
Did this person that was on, um,Twitter and being called out,
have you spoken to him?
Does he speak out about it?
Would he come and be on thepodcast?
Speaker 7 (08:29):
No, but he defends it.
But he did recently postsomething that was kind of, he
said that he realizes he's beinga little bit narcissistic and
then he's gonna get off Facebookand he needs some time to kind
of like look at his own life,not necessarily just this, which
was wonderful and kind of cool.
So I haven't,
Speaker 4 (08:44):
the interesting thing that that really would be that
initial exposure of this bywhoever this was on Twitter and
then it went on Facebook and itwas part of this dad's Facebook
group.
It was because again, like we'reshining some light on it.
We're talking about it now asadults and there was a lot of
people that were rationalizingthings or people that were
coming to his aid and otherpeople that were taking him down
(09:05):
a million pegs, but it was agreat discourse of just exposing
like some people didn't knowwhat financial core is.
They didn't know that.
It was like we should get rid ofit section.
Get rid of fine core.
You're like, you can't, what ifwe were in court?
Can't do it.
This guy was working off thecard for a long time.
Right.
Only recently when phycor andclaimed, oh, I just did it
(09:26):
November.
It's like we know you literallyin the room, we have photos of
him working off the car and youknow, we know you've been
wearing it.
I've got for a long time.
Right.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
I think the rationale, his headis still sort of defending, you
know, not sure.
Yeah, and we're doing a greatjob in terms of organizing
employers and the new contractand all sorts of things are
happening, but it's always beenthe case that is not just
organizing employers.
(09:46):
It's organizing the hackers onsome of the actors,
peer-to-peer.
And I think we're all in thistogether.
A lot of like your friend comingback, a couple of my friends
coming back reached out andsaid, seeing your stuff on
social media or just having aconversation with you at an
audition is the reason I startedthinking about things
differently and not yelling atthem or castigating anybody or
(10:07):
telling them, oh, you're in theunion over.
It's like, yeah, you are.
You're screwing your own future.
You're screwing my future.
You're screwing the union'sfuture.
So it's like, what did you moveout here for?
You moved down here to be anactor in films, TV, animation,
voiceovers, like as aprofessional and to make your
living doing that.
Right?
That's why you moved to the mind.
We you in a Supercuts thingyears ago
Speaker 5 (10:28):
I was in a fantastic,
Speaker 7 (10:30):
fantastic sams.
Yeah.
Was that union or was that youcan you use as a first time I
ever saw you and I was like,this girl's fucking
unbelievable.
Like I was like, this girl is sogood and I would have thought
that was a union job because ofthat.
Honestly heavy.
It was a huge job.
It was you, you were right thatyou had all this heavy lifting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was amazing
Speaker 5 (10:50):
characters seeing myself and with five different
hairstyles.
Yeah.
And I will also say I had twodays of wig fitting.
They transformed my own hair andcolored and gave me extensions.
And then I had to reallynegotiate to get them to allow
me to go back to the salon withtreatments because my hair was
so damaged.
So after, so that job paid$8,000yeah.
(11:12):
And you know, everybody waslovely because it was a very
professional shoe professionalcrew.
Speaker 7 (11:17):
That was sort of the early days of localize of like
nonunion stuff too, right?
Yeah.
Cause you get, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Paid for your wig fittings.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
I think it was all lumped in there together
Speaker 4 (11:27):
because that's another thing that you go on
some of these sets too andyou're like, oh yeah, fitting no
money for wardrobe fitting.
Yeah,
Speaker 7 (11:33):
right.
I remember seeing that.
I remember seeing you in that.
Go on.
I've never seen this go.
This is incredible cause you hadto play all these different pie
was one vitals at mine.
That's some heavy lifting goingon there and I thought it was
union for sure.
That's why I went to ask[inaudible]
Speaker 5 (11:43):
in my mind about doing hair stuff actually
because I had scabs in my hairfrom all the pinning they were
doing from each wig because youknow they would have to take it
out every five minutes.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Hello.
Sorry, I just want to say realquick.
No, it wasn't just like thecrappy pay that got me to not
want to keep doing it.
My core.
It's like what you said when Ikind of learned from I think
from the Facebook page was thatby doing these nonunion jobs I
was really kind of fuckingeveryone over because like you
said, if you have these reallygood actors going on in the room
and then they're usually union,they're walking out know non
union spots and the producer'sgoing, you know, we could get
(12:13):
these really good actors fornext to nothing and I just feel
like that just is adding up.
It's adding onto it
Speaker 2 (12:19):
problem and I just didn't want to be part of that
problem.
Hi, it's Jack Levy, producer ofthe union working podcast and
partner at podcast sage as anawarded audio producer who's
contributed to some of thefinest feature films, television
shows, video games and recordsproduced.
I've been inundated withrequests by peers and major
studios alike to produce andmanage podcast production and
(12:41):
I'd be delighted to do the samefor you.
Have an idea for a podcast anddon't know where to start or who
to call.
Look no further.
Have a scripted podcast,investigative or documentary
interview show, Solo cast, gameshow, talk show, or literally
any other project.
Give me a call at(818) 233-0640that's(818) 233-0640 or email me
(13:03):
at Jack at podcasts, sage.com wehave world-class studios here in
Culver City and can work remoteon location literally anywhere
and have the broadbandexperience to help with
everything from conceptdevelopment to recording and
editing, staffing and writersand of course music.
Call me at(818) 233-0640 orshoot me an email at jacket
(13:25):
podcast, sage.com mention youand your working and get a 10%
discount.
Hell, I'll make it 15 and nowback to union working and a lot
of people will rationalize it aslike, that's just me.
I'm doing a couple of these onthis.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I'm like, if we have a few thousand people thinking
that way.
Exactly, exactly.
But yeah, we're giving talentaway at a discount.
Bottom line, you're givingproducers talent for no money
leaving seemed relatively easy.
Not a ton of pushback, maybe ascary letter or whatever.
So we've heard that.
But what was your process like?
We heard Kelly got back in withthe merger.
(14:02):
You were, you were, um, you hadleft sag.
She was after, after son Sag andafter merged you were
automatically just kind ofgrandfathered in like, oh, I'm
back in the union.
What was the process like to, tocome back into the union?
I think it was the beginning of2018 I wrote a letter to Sag
saying, I want to rejoin.
I've been paying my dues by coerworld has not been great.
(14:23):
Let me back in.
I didn't hear anything back.
And I was like, hmm.
So then I called them and Ispoke to a really nice woman.
I don't remember her name, andshe said, Oh, I think we have
her paperwork.
We'll get back to you shortly.
I think it was a committeecoming up and they were going to
vote.
So I didn't realize there was awhole voting process to let me
back in.
Then, uh, someone sent me aquestionnaire that had to fill
out.
(14:44):
Why did you leave the union?
How many jobs did you book?
How much did you make off thosejobs?
Again, I think only had two orthree.
So I and I ended up been doingit for that long.
And then I also mentioned you,hey, hey.
Yeah, just drop Mike Mills inthem there.
How's your check?
Did I mentioned your name?
Amen.
(15:05):
Because we started talking onFacebook and you really can to
speak.
This is a really good idea toget back in.
I gotta do it and I was all forit.
So the question, Ian and I justgot my card like I think a week
or a week ago.
Two ago.
Yeah.
The only bummer is it ha.
It says my membership started.
She has thousand 19[inaudible].
(15:26):
Exactly.
I know I'm scab does, it startsover.
It starts over.
I did not know that.
Oh, they also wanted me to add aprofessional name option.
If there was another littleNorthrop in most, you could lose
your[inaudible].
You could use[inaudible]Northrop.
I thanks pretty safe.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Well, you could put like the fourth.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I am the fourth.
Oh, I'm not going to, I wasgoing to put it, but yeah, I'm
the fourth[inaudible].
Yeah.
Um, my dad was, he knew that inmy head.
[inaudible] we're gonna slate.
I always, you know, I don't, uh,charge you more money to give
back.
Yeah.
You have to pay a reinstatementfee.
And they just, uh, it wasn't itback dues or anything or no,
(16:06):
just no, cause I was payingdues.
But you kind of pay areinitiation initiation.
Yeah.
And it was worth it.
The ficor dues.
How much different are they, arethey, when they say, well,
you're only paying the core, isit like a big difference?
There is, you can take a lesserpercentage for your dues.
I never did that.
I was like, you know, I loveSag.
I'm gonna pay full.
(16:27):
Do I paid full?
It's like that.
It's like 3%.
That's what I, that's what Ithink it is.
It's 97% of your regular, itjust adds up for the cost of the
film society and all theexpenses of the union are the
core financial expenses.
For some reason that made mefeel that you're legit.
So Shannon, what was yourexperience coming back in
Speaker 6 (16:49):
nonunion job that I did, I had decided I'm not doing
anymore non union work and I'mgetting rid of those fucking
agent.
Uh, and so I started askingaround like, what agency, uh,
would a different castingdirectors recommend?
Like, who's busy, who's hungry,who would it be a fit with?
Sorry, I got in touch with, uh,a new agent and uh, she liked me
and it was great, but shedoesn't take nonunion talent.
(17:11):
I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I'm not so,
Speaker 6 (17:16):
but uh, she said that she was working with sag about
getting ficor actors we joining.
So we stayed in touch and shewas still helping me.
She kept me updated with herprogress in that.
But then it ended up being wellwith the new contract starting,
I think there's become a backburner thing right now.
But why don't I take you anyway,men, well, we'll book you a
(17:37):
union job and then you can payyour initiation fee.
I'm like, great.
Well that hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
[inaudible]
Speaker 6 (17:44):
so it's very similar to locals.
I did get a response right away.
I called and spoke to, you saidthe new boyfriend, the boyfriend
friend or spoke at her office.
I'm not sure exactly if I spoketo her or not.
So it just got the ball rollingand I sent a little thing I wish
to come back and they sent outthe questionnaire just like
Lowell said, filled that out.
Uh, judge and Mike, a question.
(18:05):
I see that,
Speaker 4 (18:06):
oh they're going to take a little longer.
Might be awhile.
Speaker 6 (18:10):
But I sent it back in and they wrote back and said you
didn't have to mention anyone.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
No.
[inaudible] Mike's just makingeveryone do that.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
I don't when it went to committee and it was voted
and so I've got my lettersaying, welcome back.
You will have to pay your fullinitiation fee because you were
out of sag for six years.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And then you'll get your card.
And then
Speaker 6 (18:33):
I guess I just haven't paid it yet cause I get
it.
It's three grand, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Plus a$100 administration fee orsomething like that.
I think you need a six monthpayment if you want it.
Yeah, because it came with, andthis didn't, this, I don't
remember this happening when Ioriginally joined, when my
initiation fee is 1200 yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
[inaudible]
Speaker 6 (18:53):
they sent the letter says you're welcome to join and
another letter and literaturefor the Sag Credit Union.
Okay, you can do it.
You can get alone that I'm like,oh that's cool.
That's cool.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Payment plan loan.
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:06):
I was talking to you but I was just talking to
somebody who was thinking aboutkind of coming back or they
weren't sure if they should joinor not.
Cause that'll, yeah.
Almost to like must join.
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah.
There's a lot of people that aredealing with that.
There's a lot of pre membersthat agents are friends are like
no, no, no.
This is the stay non union.
That's where all the jobs are.
Don't join right away cause thenyou can't, it's like Ah.
Yeah we hear that from agentssometimes.
It's like if you're most joineddon't join cause I can't get
your work.
Yeah.
He acts like an actor who wouldjoin with the payment plan but
are credit scores too low so
Speaker 6 (19:36):
you can't get the loan.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Ah Man.
That is rough.
Things in life.
Yeah.
But again, how does it, how doesit feel cause you Kelly, you've
been back for how long now?
I can't count six years sincemurder.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Okay,
Speaker 4 (19:50):
so you've been back for six years.
Lolo has been back for a weekand you're pretty much, you're
right there.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
So I'm not officially back.
But like I think when I made thedecision to don't do it, just
like I felt like I could standup straighter.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Guess that's what I'm saying.
Like how did you feel just toget that monkey off your back?
I'm just like, ah, I don't haveto deal with any of this weird,
icky, shitty feelings.
Like you said before.
Yeah.
It just felt like, I don't know,I'm kind of like a weight was
lifted then.
I didn't realize that.
I felt like a lot of Layton.
Yeah,
Speaker 5 (20:15):
complete shift in energy for me it was for sure
the direction that I wanted togo.
I wanted to go up.
I wanted to get better, I wantedto climb my worth and where I
want to go in my career.
And that was really kind ofweighing, weighing me down.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
It's a tingling sensation, kind of a numbness.
That means it's working.
Yeah, exactly.
You guys are commercialized.
It was good.
Yeah, because that's somethingthat we haven't even just
mentioned overall, but we keephearing from like multiple that
overall people that go ficor seetheir income overall income go
(20:53):
down.
Like that's again.
So a lot of people are like, oh,it's financial corp.
It's because I'm, my financesare bad or my financial
situations bad.
I'm going to go financial corp.
Which that's not the rightreason to do it, but a lot of
their rationale for doing it orhow they rationalize for
themselves, it's like we'reseeing that there's a few select
few that maybe have supplementedtheir overall income, but most
(21:14):
people see their stuff go downand it goes again to that stuff
of you get pigeonholed as likeyou're the best nonunion actor
we know for this job orwhatever, and you get kind of
pigeonholed by thesegatekeepers.
So that's another big reason notto.
Yeah.
Approximately three people thathave had their careers go well,
but I think they got lucky orthey were well married or, yeah.
(21:38):
Um, and then there and then someof them, their luck run out
after a while.
Yeah,
Speaker 5 (21:42):
I think I would, I would so much rather hang back
and I do feel like things arechanging a bit but it's been
pretty slow for me this year andthat's me too.
You know, abnormal for me, forme, for me, you know, whatever
six Sam's girl is having troublethis year, auditions have
(22:02):
definitely declined, but itreminds me of one.
There are all kinds of otherwonderful things I can do as an
actor besides sit and wait forthe phone to ring and it
encourages me to get out and todo those other things and to
have a really well roundedcreative life.
And I would rather hang back andwait for the phone to ring for a
(22:22):
commercial audition and bookthat say one for a year or
whatever, because that is worthits weight in gold for all of
the reasons we understand, asopposed to doing 10, nine year
in commercials,
Speaker 4 (22:35):
right.
When we've heard this too, wherepeople, the rationalization of
like, ah, it's for money orwhatever.
We hear this from all sides andit's a talking point for
everyone, is you gotta do whatyou gotta do.
I have a family, ah, I gotta dothis.
I gotta put food on the table,I've got a mortgage.
Everyone understands that.
The idea of that rationale orthat excuse, but it's bullshit.
It's total bullshit where it'slike, we're not saying you can't
(22:57):
do other jobs.
You can do any job other thanundermining the union job.
You can cause again, like peoplehave said, I'm toeing the line
and I'm in dire straits and mywife has cancer, or our kid's
sick, or our house burnt downand I'm towing the line.
So your rationalization of like,oh, you gotta do what you gotta
(23:17):
do and you're undermining theunion.
It's like you're kind ofspitting in my face.
And then when I heard that fromcertain people that stood up and
told their personal stories, Iwould never cross my, he and I
would never go against that andI've had just as much hardship
as the next person.
Right.
It just kind of hit home for me.
I'm like, Holy Shit.
That's right.
Like that's what made me startthis whole group because like
(23:38):
literally when the fight corethat's non union stuff started
coming out and it was like46,000 this and it went in my
age.
I go, what the fuck is going on?
I want to get, I want some ofthat shit.
Like if it's$64,000 job[inaudible] I want that.
And he goes, yeah, but it's notan union.
I want you to do that.
And I was like, alright then I'mgoing to fucking do something my
union and figure something outbecause I don't want to do that
cause that sucks.
Right.
(23:58):
So we're going to work.
We're getting close to wrappingup.
We need to wind down.
We have two questions left.
Yeah.
I just, it's kind of a comboquestion, but I wanted you guys
to give your advice to someonethat's either one, it can be
like two people cause I thinkthere are kind of two different
people that are in this fight,core world, one that scuffling,
maybe they're brand new two,maybe they're out of high school
or college and they're thinkingabout it or they're hearing from
people to go buy courses.
(24:19):
Someone that's thinking aboutgoing ficor.
If you'd have any advice orsomething that we haven't
mentioned so far or someonethat's ficor right now that
you're like, dude, come back,whatever.
If you have any parting words oradvice to these people, either
that are thinking about it orpeople that are in it right now
that are
Speaker 6 (24:32):
dealing with it.
My Buddy Tom always tells me thething about five cars, it's just
fool's gold and he's been rightevery time you said it.
Even like when I was in fightcar before I started thinking
about coming back.
But it's like I understood it,so I mean I would harp on that
because it seems like we havetalked about like a, I'm just
going to get more work, I'mgoing to supplement my union
income, and it just doesn't workout that way.
(24:53):
Somebody like a pre member wholives in Minneapolis or some
super small market with no plansof a necessarily moving to New
York or la, I'd say, well, okay,then maybe you want to go find
course so that you can do someunion work when it comes around
every couple of months.
Yeah.
But somebody here, it's likethat's the goal.
Yeah.
To get in the union so you canget all the, uh, get the real
(25:17):
goal though, you know, that's, Iknow that, that'd be my initial
advice.
And then let's, let's talk aboutit some more so I can kind of
convince you some more.
Right?
Hmm.
Like you said, talent is acommodity and if we can keep
that from, those don't needjobs.
If they really want a goodactors for their spots, they're
going to have to go union.
Yeah.
If we drained that talent pool.
(25:37):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Power and power numbers.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
[inaudible] oh, well gosh, I was like hoping you guys
would talk longer.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
I think I would just tell, you know, I love what
Shannon said about fool's gold.
That's exactly what it is.
It may seem like there's abenefit or you know,
supplementing and all thosewonderful things, but it's just
not true.
It's, there's, um, a creativecommunity that is film and
television and you can't make itall just on your own.
(26:09):
It's a collaboration and theunion is a collaboration.
We need all members and allpeople working together so that
we can all make a fuckingliving.
So I would say that maybe,
Speaker 4 (26:23):
yeah, he's kind of interesting because it seems
like the people that we see thatreally fight it and say, no, I'm
going to, I go and do what Iwant.
I'm going to do union and nonunion.
It's somewhat narcissistic inthe fact they want their face
out there and they think oftheir faces on a bunch of
commercials that they're goingto get a TV show and then
they're going to get famous andit's usually like, no, that's
the exact opposite.
It's going to happen.
The directors, the director,when they see you, they're like,
(26:45):
oh, you're a nonunion talent.
They're not gonna think of youfor their TV show or their
movie.
Yeah.
Their big union commercial.
Yeah.
They won't.
Yeah.
Together we work.
That's a phrase we always saytogether we work.
We're not just one of us worksor anything like that.
Yeah.
Um, we could go on all day, butthen this will wrap it up.
Fantastic.
(27:06):
Yes, we shall wrap it up.
We have any partying.
Well, I want to say thank you tothe three of you for coming in.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you.
Once again, we had Kelly pennygraft, Lola Northrup and Shannon
Holmes here.
Very brave and awesome for youguys to come in and we should be
clear that[inaudible] has avideo about this topic on the
union working channel onYoutube.
She was one of the first tospeak out, so we were super
appreciative of hers.
(27:27):
Yeah, probably just repeated abunch of what I said on
[inaudible] still good and areminder, this was an unofficial
discussion.
The official manager in ourUnion of Financial Corp is a
lovely staff person namedCocoVia friends.
She can be found at the phonenumber(323) 549-6019 and there
are similar people at the otherlocals around the country.
(27:49):
Follow us at union working onFacebook and our website.
You didn't work in.com the unionworking podcast is produced in
association with podcasts, sageat Culver city studios.
Jackson.
Amazing.
We go, yes.
And if you just have anyquestions or concerns about the
topic, you can reach out to usat union working for[inaudible].
We're not mad at ya like we wantyou back.
(28:10):
We want you back in the phone.
You big hug.
Yeah, we'll give you a big hug.
Like
Speaker 2 (28:13):
three.
It's like I have mad respect forthese people that quit hugging
me.
God, I need a nice kitchen, um,and came back and viewed.
It feels great to have you guysback in the fold.
Thank you.
All right, bye.
I think that's it.
Make sure to download the nextepisode.
(28:33):
I'd like to thank bluemicrophones there.
Mike's are fantastic in theirheadphones.
Killer, the gator case company.
Your equipment can travel instyle, protect your investment.
Presonus I just love theirstudio.
Live series, the RoadCorporation, the film maker
kits, ambisonic, microphone andrecorders.
All Rock and of course tascam.
The model 24 has been amazing.
(28:57):
Need music for a podcast,television project, film, audio
book, or any other productionneed.
I suggest you call my friends atspirit production music.
You can find them and listen totheir music at spirit
production.
music.com representing over 50music libraries and over 200,000
tracks.
Spirit production music has allthe music you'll need staff to
help and prices.
(29:18):
You'll love.
Email them through their websiteor give them a call today.
At(818) 508-2040 that's(818)508-2040 ask for my Buddy Ryan.
He'll personally help you findthe right music for your
project.
Spirit production, music.comcheck them out.
You'll be thrilled.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
[inaudible].
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And we're rolling on the union working podcast at
Culver City Studios with PodcastSage.
UnionWorking is a grassrootsorganization of film, Television
and commercial performers ofSag-aftra.
You're dedicated to solutions,ideas, and creating a union that
works for all of us, so we hopeyou'll enjoy our informative,
entertaining and hopefullyirreverent podcast about the
(00:27):
challenges facing the modern dayunion actor.
We support a membership drivenmembership up model because
Speaker 3 (00:35):
[inaudible].
Speaker 4 (00:35):
That is correct.
Now starting part two of ourepisode regarding financial core
or by core a where we left offbefore we were talking about
these three guests.
We have Kelly Pendergraph,Lowell, Northrop.
Hello Shannon Holmes.
I am Mike C.
Nelson.
I am one of the core members ofunion working and we have a two
(00:56):
other corps members here.
We have Bob Stevenson and Bob[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (00:59):
and Kevin Ashworth and I am Kevin Ashworth and
we're appreciative for our threeguests.
Doing a good brief thing today.
Yeah,
Speaker 4 (01:05):
so thankful for you guys being here with us to day.
So where we left off, we weretalking about what was the
moment that you wanted to comeback to the union.
What was a series of events oran event that you can remember?
So we talked to Kelly andShannon and episode one.
So we left off with Lowell.
Was there a one event or aseries of events where you're
like,
Speaker 3 (01:25):
just a series of getting auditions.
They weren't paying well,they're just crap.
So I just was getting sick ofthat.
So I moved a little further awayfrom, you know, still I could
make the commute, but it wasgoing to take a lot more for me
to want to drive the extra 45minutes hour to get to an
audition.
And I'm not going to do that forsomething that pays 500 bucks or
1000 bucks.
So I honestly, I kind of dippedmy toe into the whole ficor
(01:45):
thing.
I didn't do it for very long.
So I think 2017 2018 and then byearly 2018 as I tried to reach
out to sag and say, Hey, I wantback in, I'm not liking it.
And I like in this ficorbullshit.
It was just these, these crappypaying gigs and then this a lot
of spokesman roles a lot.
And it was like, Hey, and youknow, memorize that, copy it
(02:06):
open the pdf.
It'd be like four pages of just,and I'm like, I'm not doing this
for$1,000.
Yeah.
Cause I'm not good with words orI'm not good with that many
words.
So I'm good with like the[inaudible] and go like, yeah,
I'm good with the[inaudible]give me a line.
Yeah.
Face acting.
I can, I can do the face actingand then like one or two lines,
you know, you gonna even me.
Four pages of copy.
(02:27):
You better pay me the big bucksright now.
Serious.
You three guys.
When you were five court, didyou feel Kelly's a lady?
That's true.
You two guys, that's three gals[inaudible] to come on.
What all ladies?
Um, did you feel a weird
Speaker 4 (02:46):
about being ficor, did that have anything to do
with your decision as well orwas it like a money thing or it
was like these bad jobs?
Did you feel weird about likeyour other friends and cohorts
and other actors that you werelike, I'm Kinda doing this and
did you feel like you couldn'ttalk to them openly and honestly
about it or you didn't want tolet on that you were ficor ah,
Speaker 5 (03:06):
yes.
Oh my God, I was so embarrassed.
I remember going in and hiding,signing in to auditions, seeing
all the people that I know overhere, sitting in, in front of
this doorway, number one.
And I'm a doorway number two andI'm like trying to blend in with
them.
Like I am going in that room.
(03:27):
So embarrassing guys.
Oh yeah.
I had so much shame and I nevertold people if I did I would
kind of like measure thetemperature on whether I should
say it or not because I wasembarrassed completely.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
I've owned it right away, but I didn't go out for
it.
Cause I had the agent for quitea while.
He wouldn't have his name on anonunion stuff and so it would
be just things what I would beworking and the casting director
would have another room orsomething that I was running
that was non United.
Ask what the rate was and stuff.
They'd say, Oh, you should go infor it.
I'm like, oh, that's kind of ashitty rate.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It didn't seem like it was very couple of guys.
Right.
But then it also kind of justdwindled.
It started feeling just shitty.
But that was scabbing.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, cause we've heard from some people, some
people are unabashed and don'tcare.
They're like, I want to act whenI want to.
You can't tell me otherwise.
They listen to this podcast.
They're not going to care likethey have it rationalized.
But more of the people thatwe've seen come back, you guys
included in some of our friendshave felt that shame just felt
icky.
It felt shitty.
I didn't like doing thisanymore.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah.
In fact, a friend of mine wasficor early this year and he
encouraged somebody else not todo it.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Oh, that's great.
He was reinstated.
Ban Plastic.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
When I talked to you, Bob, we were talking about your
union.
You're working into that,talking about how I've started
the process of coming back and Isaw just Jolie on your face.
Oh yeah.
But then you had told me no,there, there, there are a lot of
people in the union that knowthat you're ficor, but you'd
probably don't know that you're[inaudible].
And I'm like, cause I know,
Speaker 3 (04:59):
oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Oh, I didn't know.
Sweet.
We know we not go well.
Again, we have friends that arein casting that are agents,
managers run session so they cansee and be like, oh, I saw so
and so doing.
I knew it for a long time, but Ihadn't said anything either.
So there was really sweet whenit came up, it just popped up by
chance.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I knew you were.
And you know why is you got ajob that I was on avail for, but
I was like, no way.
He's ficor.
There's no way because theyconsider you like a heavy
hitter.
I think you're what?
A Dick.
You were just a little bitbetter than me that day.
Oh yeah.
No, but I was very surprisedcause I was like maybe they went
union on this one.
It was a grilling thing.
(05:39):
But yeah, when I saw the sod airand I saw you, I really thought
there's no way because you are,you are, you were a heavy hitter
.
You're a guy who books a lot.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
I would be on set, I recall two different times it
was on set where the directorwould come up to me and say,
you're all great.
Why are you non-union?
Well I'm not, and then you haveto go into the explanation of
that whole thing.
But I think they're also, youknow, there is a level of talent
that they think they're going toget and that they should get if
(06:09):
they're going to make their job.
Nonunion.
Sure.
You know, it's like we're makingour talents.
We work at what we do, we'reprofessionals and we come with a
level of professionality when wego to work.
And they should pay for that.
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
No your words.
No, but that, that is what thatis.
Right.
And he's like, there's a wholeouting campaign from a guy on
Twitter, Ralph Mathers, and wedon't know who this person is,
but yeah, he'll put up scab ofthe week and he'll just throw up
people who are doing, so he puta big name up there.
I don't know if I need to sayhis name, but he put a big name
up there and it exploded.
And it was, I mean there wasprobably 150 things going.
(06:44):
Yeah, go on.
Going off on him.
And I had reposted it soeveryone thought it came from
[inaudible] Wayne saying, I knowthis guy really well.
Yeah.
And but it's a good thing.
But it was yet then whathappened was, it was exactly
what you were saying is that asession runner said to him, you
know why we're pissed at you?
Because when you're doing anonunion thing, I've been in the
room when you come in the roomand when you leave the room,
(07:06):
every producer behind us is ifwe can get this kind of talent,
why don't we do everything now?
Yeah, exactly.
That's what we all told them.
Like, this is your fucking right,
Speaker 4 (07:13):
rob, when you're not getting paid for your scrutiny,
everybody, I go do that lessonsat for every year on my slate
choice, and that's it.
That's where you're right.
If your needs meet the monththat we, the strength of
sag-aftra comes from the abilityto withhold talents.
That's it.
Right?
Yeah, it's true.
And again, like that's ourbiggest leverage.
If you want to use Tom Hanks oryou want to use Kelly as a
(07:33):
spokesman for your thing, it'slike you've got to pay a rate.
You've got to pay a rate that'sworthy of their talent.
[inaudible] business folks,right?
Yeah.
You've got to pay rate.
We've all worked with directorsand it's like, I've talked with
them about this and we're like,how is it to cast non-union?
Oh, their heads go back.
Their eyes roll and they'relike, oh my loss and her, it
(07:53):
takes more time.
So they're paying for, like wegot to casting, they don't pay
casting that much money.
So castings working longer, likeyou're running longer sessions
where you're seeing 200 peoplein like a day, which is obscene.
Yeah.
For a horrible Tom, the actors,the talent isn't there and
you're doing multiple days ormultiple rooms.
(08:15):
Just the whole thing is likerace to the bottom.
Yeah.
It's a vicious cycle.
It's not good
Speaker 5 (08:20):
really quickly.
Did this person that was on, um,Twitter and being called out,
have you spoken to him?
Does he speak out about it?
Would he come and be on thepodcast?
Speaker 7 (08:29):
No, but he defends it.
But he did recently postsomething that was kind of, he
said that he realizes he's beinga little bit narcissistic and
then he's gonna get off Facebookand he needs some time to kind
of like look at his own life,not necessarily just this, which
was wonderful and kind of cool.
So I haven't,
Speaker 4 (08:44):
the interesting thing that that really would be that
initial exposure of this bywhoever this was on Twitter and
then it went on Facebook and itwas part of this dad's Facebook
group.
It was because again, like we'reshining some light on it.
We're talking about it now asadults and there was a lot of
people that were rationalizingthings or people that were
coming to his aid and otherpeople that were taking him down
(09:05):
a million pegs, but it was agreat discourse of just exposing
like some people didn't knowwhat financial core is.
They didn't know that.
It was like we should get rid ofit section.
Get rid of fine core.
You're like, you can't, what ifwe were in court?
Can't do it.
This guy was working off thecard for a long time.
Right.
Only recently when phycor andclaimed, oh, I just did it
(09:26):
November.
It's like we know you literallyin the room, we have photos of
him working off the car and youknow, we know you've been
wearing it.
I've got for a long time.
Right.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
I think the rationale, his headis still sort of defending, you
know, not sure.
Yeah, and we're doing a greatjob in terms of organizing
employers and the new contractand all sorts of things are
happening, but it's always beenthe case that is not just
organizing employers.
(09:46):
It's organizing the hackers onsome of the actors,
peer-to-peer.
And I think we're all in thistogether.
A lot of like your friend comingback, a couple of my friends
coming back reached out andsaid, seeing your stuff on
social media or just having aconversation with you at an
audition is the reason I startedthinking about things
differently and not yelling atthem or castigating anybody or
(10:07):
telling them, oh, you're in theunion over.
It's like, yeah, you are.
You're screwing your own future.
You're screwing my future.
You're screwing the union'sfuture.
So it's like, what did you moveout here for?
You moved down here to be anactor in films, TV, animation,
voiceovers, like as aprofessional and to make your
living doing that.
Right?
That's why you moved to the mind.
We you in a Supercuts thingyears ago
Speaker 5 (10:28):
I was in a fantastic,
Speaker 7 (10:30):
fantastic sams.
Yeah.
Was that union or was that youcan you use as a first time I
ever saw you and I was like,this girl's fucking
unbelievable.
Like I was like, this girl is sogood and I would have thought
that was a union job because ofthat.
Honestly heavy.
It was a huge job.
It was you, you were right thatyou had all this heavy lifting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was amazing
Speaker 5 (10:50):
characters seeing myself and with five different
hairstyles.
Yeah.
And I will also say I had twodays of wig fitting.
They transformed my own hair andcolored and gave me extensions.
And then I had to reallynegotiate to get them to allow
me to go back to the salon withtreatments because my hair was
so damaged.
So after, so that job paid$8,000yeah.
(11:12):
And you know, everybody waslovely because it was a very
professional shoe professionalcrew.
Speaker 7 (11:17):
That was sort of the early days of localize of like
nonunion stuff too, right?
Yeah.
Cause you get, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Paid for your wig fittings.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
I think it was all lumped in there together
Speaker 4 (11:27):
because that's another thing that you go on
some of these sets too andyou're like, oh yeah, fitting no
money for wardrobe fitting.
Yeah,
Speaker 7 (11:33):
right.
I remember seeing that.
I remember seeing you in that.
Go on.
I've never seen this go.
This is incredible cause you hadto play all these different pie
was one vitals at mine.
That's some heavy lifting goingon there and I thought it was
union for sure.
That's why I went to ask[inaudible]
Speaker 5 (11:43):
in my mind about doing hair stuff actually
because I had scabs in my hairfrom all the pinning they were
doing from each wig because youknow they would have to take it
out every five minutes.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Hello.
Sorry, I just want to say realquick.
No, it wasn't just like thecrappy pay that got me to not
want to keep doing it.
My core.
It's like what you said when Ikind of learned from I think
from the Facebook page was thatby doing these nonunion jobs I
was really kind of fuckingeveryone over because like you
said, if you have these reallygood actors going on in the room
and then they're usually union,they're walking out know non
union spots and the producer'sgoing, you know, we could get
(12:13):
these really good actors fornext to nothing and I just feel
like that just is adding up.
It's adding onto it
Speaker 2 (12:19):
problem and I just didn't want to be part of that
problem.
Hi, it's Jack Levy, producer ofthe union working podcast and
partner at podcast sage as anawarded audio producer who's
contributed to some of thefinest feature films, television
shows, video games and recordsproduced.
I've been inundated withrequests by peers and major
studios alike to produce andmanage podcast production and
(12:41):
I'd be delighted to do the samefor you.
Have an idea for a podcast anddon't know where to start or who
to call.
Look no further.
Have a scripted podcast,investigative or documentary
interview show, Solo cast, gameshow, talk show, or literally
any other project.
Give me a call at(818) 233-0640that's(818) 233-0640 or email me
(13:03):
at Jack at podcasts, sage.com wehave world-class studios here in
Culver City and can work remoteon location literally anywhere
and have the broadbandexperience to help with
everything from conceptdevelopment to recording and
editing, staffing and writersand of course music.
Call me at(818) 233-0640 orshoot me an email at jacket
(13:25):
podcast, sage.com mention youand your working and get a 10%
discount.
Hell, I'll make it 15 and nowback to union working and a lot
of people will rationalize it aslike, that's just me.
I'm doing a couple of these onthis.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I'm like, if we have a few thousand people thinking
that way.
Exactly, exactly.
But yeah, we're giving talentaway at a discount.
Bottom line, you're givingproducers talent for no money
leaving seemed relatively easy.
Not a ton of pushback, maybe ascary letter or whatever.
So we've heard that.
But what was your process like?
We heard Kelly got back in withthe merger.
(14:02):
You were, you were, um, you hadleft sag.
She was after, after son Sag andafter merged you were
automatically just kind ofgrandfathered in like, oh, I'm
back in the union.
What was the process like to, tocome back into the union?
I think it was the beginning of2018 I wrote a letter to Sag
saying, I want to rejoin.
I've been paying my dues by coerworld has not been great.
(14:23):
Let me back in.
I didn't hear anything back.
And I was like, hmm.
So then I called them and Ispoke to a really nice woman.
I don't remember her name, andshe said, Oh, I think we have
her paperwork.
We'll get back to you shortly.
I think it was a committeecoming up and they were going to
vote.
So I didn't realize there was awhole voting process to let me
back in.
Then, uh, someone sent me aquestionnaire that had to fill
out.
(14:44):
Why did you leave the union?
How many jobs did you book?
How much did you make off thosejobs?
Again, I think only had two orthree.
So I and I ended up been doingit for that long.
And then I also mentioned you,hey, hey.
Yeah, just drop Mike Mills inthem there.
How's your check?
Did I mentioned your name?
Amen.
(15:05):
Because we started talking onFacebook and you really can to
speak.
This is a really good idea toget back in.
I gotta do it and I was all forit.
So the question, Ian and I justgot my card like I think a week
or a week ago.
Two ago.
Yeah.
The only bummer is it ha.
It says my membership started.
She has thousand 19[inaudible].
(15:26):
Exactly.
I know I'm scab does, it startsover.
It starts over.
I did not know that.
Oh, they also wanted me to add aprofessional name option.
If there was another littleNorthrop in most, you could lose
your[inaudible].
You could use[inaudible]Northrop.
I thanks pretty safe.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Well, you could put like the fourth.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I am the fourth.
Oh, I'm not going to, I wasgoing to put it, but yeah, I'm
the fourth[inaudible].
Yeah.
Um, my dad was, he knew that inmy head.
[inaudible] we're gonna slate.
I always, you know, I don't, uh,charge you more money to give
back.
Yeah.
You have to pay a reinstatementfee.
And they just, uh, it wasn't itback dues or anything or no,
(16:06):
just no, cause I was payingdues.
But you kind of pay areinitiation initiation.
Yeah.
And it was worth it.
The ficor dues.
How much different are they, arethey, when they say, well,
you're only paying the core, isit like a big difference?
There is, you can take a lesserpercentage for your dues.
I never did that.
I was like, you know, I loveSag.
I'm gonna pay full.
(16:27):
Do I paid full?
It's like that.
It's like 3%.
That's what I, that's what Ithink it is.
It's 97% of your regular, itjust adds up for the cost of the
film society and all theexpenses of the union are the
core financial expenses.
For some reason that made mefeel that you're legit.
So Shannon, what was yourexperience coming back in
Speaker 6 (16:49):
nonunion job that I did, I had decided I'm not doing
anymore non union work and I'mgetting rid of those fucking
agent.
Uh, and so I started askingaround like, what agency, uh,
would a different castingdirectors recommend?
Like, who's busy, who's hungry,who would it be a fit with?
Sorry, I got in touch with, uh,a new agent and uh, she liked me
and it was great, but shedoesn't take nonunion talent.
(17:11):
I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I'm not so,
Speaker 6 (17:16):
but uh, she said that she was working with sag about
getting ficor actors we joining.
So we stayed in touch and shewas still helping me.
She kept me updated with herprogress in that.
But then it ended up being wellwith the new contract starting,
I think there's become a backburner thing right now.
But why don't I take you anyway,men, well, we'll book you a
(17:37):
union job and then you can payyour initiation fee.
I'm like, great.
Well that hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
[inaudible]
Speaker 6 (17:44):
so it's very similar to locals.
I did get a response right away.
I called and spoke to, you saidthe new boyfriend, the boyfriend
friend or spoke at her office.
I'm not sure exactly if I spoketo her or not.
So it just got the ball rollingand I sent a little thing I wish
to come back and they sent outthe questionnaire just like
Lowell said, filled that out.
Uh, judge and Mike, a question.
(18:05):
I see that,
Speaker 4 (18:06):
oh they're going to take a little longer.
Might be awhile.
Speaker 6 (18:10):
But I sent it back in and they wrote back and said you
didn't have to mention anyone.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
No.
[inaudible] Mike's just makingeveryone do that.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
I don't when it went to committee and it was voted
and so I've got my lettersaying, welcome back.
You will have to pay your fullinitiation fee because you were
out of sag for six years.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
And then you'll get your card.
And then
Speaker 6 (18:33):
I guess I just haven't paid it yet cause I get
it.
It's three grand, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Plus a$100 administration fee orsomething like that.
I think you need a six monthpayment if you want it.
Yeah, because it came with, andthis didn't, this, I don't
remember this happening when Ioriginally joined, when my
initiation fee is 1200 yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
[inaudible]
Speaker 6 (18:53):
they sent the letter says you're welcome to join and
another letter and literaturefor the Sag Credit Union.
Okay, you can do it.
You can get alone that I'm like,oh that's cool.
That's cool.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Payment plan loan.
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:06):
I was talking to you but I was just talking to
somebody who was thinking aboutkind of coming back or they
weren't sure if they should joinor not.
Cause that'll, yeah.
Almost to like must join.
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah.
There's a lot of people that aredealing with that.
There's a lot of pre membersthat agents are friends are like
no, no, no.
This is the stay non union.
That's where all the jobs are.
Don't join right away cause thenyou can't, it's like Ah.
Yeah we hear that from agentssometimes.
It's like if you're most joineddon't join cause I can't get
your work.
Yeah.
He acts like an actor who wouldjoin with the payment plan but
are credit scores too low so
Speaker 6 (19:36):
you can't get the loan.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Ah Man.
That is rough.
Things in life.
Yeah.
But again, how does it, how doesit feel cause you Kelly, you've
been back for how long now?
I can't count six years sincemurder.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Okay,
Speaker 4 (19:50):
so you've been back for six years.
Lolo has been back for a weekand you're pretty much, you're
right there.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
So I'm not officially back.
But like I think when I made thedecision to don't do it, just
like I felt like I could standup straighter.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Guess that's what I'm saying.
Like how did you feel just toget that monkey off your back?
I'm just like, ah, I don't haveto deal with any of this weird,
icky, shitty feelings.
Like you said before.
Yeah.
It just felt like, I don't know,I'm kind of like a weight was
lifted then.
I didn't realize that.
I felt like a lot of Layton.
Yeah,
Speaker 5 (20:15):
complete shift in energy for me it was for sure
the direction that I wanted togo.
I wanted to go up.
I wanted to get better, I wantedto climb my worth and where I
want to go in my career.
And that was really kind ofweighing, weighing me down.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
It's a tingling sensation, kind of a numbness.
That means it's working.
Yeah, exactly.
You guys are commercialized.
It was good.
Yeah, because that's somethingthat we haven't even just
mentioned overall, but we keephearing from like multiple that
overall people that go ficor seetheir income overall income go
(20:53):
down.
Like that's again.
So a lot of people are like, oh,it's financial corp.
It's because I'm, my financesare bad or my financial
situations bad.
I'm going to go financial corp.
Which that's not the rightreason to do it, but a lot of
their rationale for doing it orhow they rationalize for
themselves, it's like we'reseeing that there's a few select
few that maybe have supplementedtheir overall income, but most
(21:14):
people see their stuff go downand it goes again to that stuff
of you get pigeonholed as likeyou're the best nonunion actor
we know for this job orwhatever, and you get kind of
pigeonholed by thesegatekeepers.
So that's another big reason notto.
Yeah.
Approximately three people thathave had their careers go well,
but I think they got lucky orthey were well married or, yeah.
(21:38):
Um, and then there and then someof them, their luck run out
after a while.
Yeah,
Speaker 5 (21:42):
I think I would, I would so much rather hang back
and I do feel like things arechanging a bit but it's been
pretty slow for me this year andthat's me too.
You know, abnormal for me, forme, for me, you know, whatever
six Sam's girl is having troublethis year, auditions have
(22:02):
definitely declined, but itreminds me of one.
There are all kinds of otherwonderful things I can do as an
actor besides sit and wait forthe phone to ring and it
encourages me to get out and todo those other things and to
have a really well roundedcreative life.
And I would rather hang back andwait for the phone to ring for a
(22:22):
commercial audition and bookthat say one for a year or
whatever, because that is worthits weight in gold for all of
the reasons we understand, asopposed to doing 10, nine year
in commercials,
Speaker 4 (22:35):
right.
When we've heard this too, wherepeople, the rationalization of
like, ah, it's for money orwhatever.
We hear this from all sides andit's a talking point for
everyone, is you gotta do whatyou gotta do.
I have a family, ah, I gotta dothis.
I gotta put food on the table,I've got a mortgage.
Everyone understands that.
The idea of that rationale orthat excuse, but it's bullshit.
It's total bullshit where it'slike, we're not saying you can't
(22:57):
do other jobs.
You can do any job other thanundermining the union job.
You can cause again, like peoplehave said, I'm toeing the line
and I'm in dire straits and mywife has cancer, or our kid's
sick, or our house burnt downand I'm towing the line.
So your rationalization of like,oh, you gotta do what you gotta
(23:17):
do and you're undermining theunion.
It's like you're kind ofspitting in my face.
And then when I heard that fromcertain people that stood up and
told their personal stories, Iwould never cross my, he and I
would never go against that andI've had just as much hardship
as the next person.
Right.
It just kind of hit home for me.
I'm like, Holy Shit.
That's right.
Like that's what made me startthis whole group because like
(23:38):
literally when the fight corethat's non union stuff started
coming out and it was like46,000 this and it went in my
age.
I go, what the fuck is going on?
I want to get, I want some ofthat shit.
Like if it's$64,000 job[inaudible] I want that.
And he goes, yeah, but it's notan union.
I want you to do that.
And I was like, alright then I'mgoing to fucking do something my
union and figure something outbecause I don't want to do that
cause that sucks.
Right.
(23:58):
So we're going to work.
We're getting close to wrappingup.
We need to wind down.
We have two questions left.
Yeah.
I just, it's kind of a comboquestion, but I wanted you guys
to give your advice to someonethat's either one, it can be
like two people cause I thinkthere are kind of two different
people that are in this fight,core world, one that scuffling,
maybe they're brand new two,maybe they're out of high school
or college and they're thinkingabout it or they're hearing from
people to go buy courses.
(24:19):
Someone that's thinking aboutgoing ficor.
If you'd have any advice orsomething that we haven't
mentioned so far or someonethat's ficor right now that
you're like, dude, come back,whatever.
If you have any parting words oradvice to these people, either
that are thinking about it orpeople that are in it right now
that are
Speaker 6 (24:32):
dealing with it.
My Buddy Tom always tells me thething about five cars, it's just
fool's gold and he's been rightevery time you said it.
Even like when I was in fightcar before I started thinking
about coming back.
But it's like I understood it,so I mean I would harp on that
because it seems like we havetalked about like a, I'm just
going to get more work, I'mgoing to supplement my union
income, and it just doesn't workout that way.
(24:53):
Somebody like a pre member wholives in Minneapolis or some
super small market with no plansof a necessarily moving to New
York or la, I'd say, well, okay,then maybe you want to go find
course so that you can do someunion work when it comes around
every couple of months.
Yeah.
But somebody here, it's likethat's the goal.
Yeah.
To get in the union so you canget all the, uh, get the real
(25:17):
goal though, you know, that's, Iknow that, that'd be my initial
advice.
And then let's, let's talk aboutit some more so I can kind of
convince you some more.
Right?
Hmm.
Like you said, talent is acommodity and if we can keep
that from, those don't needjobs.
If they really want a goodactors for their spots, they're
going to have to go union.
Yeah.
If we drained that talent pool.
(25:37):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Power and power numbers.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
[inaudible] oh, well gosh, I was like hoping you guys
would talk longer.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
I think I would just tell, you know, I love what
Shannon said about fool's gold.
That's exactly what it is.
It may seem like there's abenefit or you know,
supplementing and all thosewonderful things, but it's just
not true.
It's, there's, um, a creativecommunity that is film and
television and you can't make itall just on your own.
(26:09):
It's a collaboration and theunion is a collaboration.
We need all members and allpeople working together so that
we can all make a fuckingliving.
So I would say that maybe,
Speaker 4 (26:23):
yeah, he's kind of interesting because it seems
like the people that we see thatreally fight it and say, no, I'm
going to, I go and do what Iwant.
I'm going to do union and nonunion.
It's somewhat narcissistic inthe fact they want their face
out there and they think oftheir faces on a bunch of
commercials that they're goingto get a TV show and then
they're going to get famous andit's usually like, no, that's
the exact opposite.
It's going to happen.
The directors, the director,when they see you, they're like,
(26:45):
oh, you're a nonunion talent.
They're not gonna think of youfor their TV show or their
movie.
Yeah.
Their big union commercial.
Yeah.
They won't.
Yeah.
Together we work.
That's a phrase we always saytogether we work.
We're not just one of us worksor anything like that.
Yeah.
Um, we could go on all day, butthen this will wrap it up.
Fantastic.
(27:06):
Yes, we shall wrap it up.
We have any partying.
Well, I want to say thank you tothe three of you for coming in.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you.
Once again, we had Kelly pennygraft, Lola Northrup and Shannon
Holmes here.
Very brave and awesome for youguys to come in and we should be
clear that[inaudible] has avideo about this topic on the
union working channel onYoutube.
She was one of the first tospeak out, so we were super
appreciative of hers.
(27:27):
Yeah, probably just repeated abunch of what I said on
[inaudible] still good and areminder, this was an unofficial
discussion.
The official manager in ourUnion of Financial Corp is a
lovely staff person namedCocoVia friends.
She can be found at the phonenumber(323) 549-6019 and there
are similar people at the otherlocals around the country.
(27:49):
Follow us at union working onFacebook and our website.
You didn't work in.com the unionworking podcast is produced in
association with podcasts, sageat Culver city studios.
Jackson.
Amazing.
We go, yes.
And if you just have anyquestions or concerns about the
topic, you can reach out to usat union working for[inaudible].
We're not mad at ya like we wantyou back.
(28:10):
We want you back in the phone.
You big hug.
Yeah, we'll give you a big hug.
Like
Speaker 2 (28:13):
three.
It's like I have mad respect forthese people that quit hugging
me.
God, I need a nice kitchen, um,and came back and viewed.
It feels great to have you guysback in the fold.
Thank you.
All right, bye.
I think that's it.
Make sure to download the nextepisode.
(28:33):
I'd like to thank bluemicrophones there.
Mike's are fantastic in theirheadphones.
Killer, the gator case company.
Your equipment can travel instyle, protect your investment.
Presonus I just love theirstudio.
Live series, the RoadCorporation, the film maker
kits, ambisonic, microphone andrecorders.
All Rock and of course tascam.
The model 24 has been amazing.
(28:57):
Need music for a podcast,television project, film, audio
book, or any other productionneed.
I suggest you call my friends atspirit production music.
You can find them and listen totheir music at spirit
production.
music.com representing over 50music libraries and over 200,000
tracks.
Spirit production music has allthe music you'll need staff to
help and prices.
(29:18):
You'll love.
Email them through their websiteor give them a call today.
At(818) 508-2040 that's(818)508-2040 ask for my Buddy Ryan.
He'll personally help you findthe right music for your
project.
Spirit production, music.comcheck them out.
You'll be thrilled.
Speaker 8 (29:41):
[inaudible].
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.