In this first episode of Season Four, YS Chi speaks with Sean Fitzpatrick, CEO of LexisNexis North American, UK & Ireland.
In June 2023, YS interviewed Mike Walsh, CEO of LexisNexis Legal & Professional, a few months after introducing generative AI at scale to the legal profession.
Fast forward to 2025 and thousands of small and large legal firms are now actively using this new technology across multiple regions. YS asks Sean how customers are adapting to, and adopting this new technology. Can it be trusted? What impact will it have on law firms' business model and the billable hour? How is it affecting legal education and the next generation of lawyers. What is the vision?
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Episode Transcript
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YS Chi (00:00):
The unique contributions podcast is brought to you by
RELX. Find out more about us byvisiting relx.com
Sean Fitzpatrick (00:14):
You know the vision is not like a 10-year
vision. This is not about whatwe're going to do 10 years from
now, or five years from now, oreven three years from now, a lot
of this stuff is availabletoday.
YS Chi (00:41):
Hello and welcome to a special episode on AI and the
law. RELX has been usingextractive AI across the company
for well over a decade, and nowgenerative AI. In early 2024
Bank of America, an investmentbank, said that 2023 was the
year of the ‘AI enablers.’ While2024 would be the year of the
(01:03):
‘AI adopters.’ RELX was listedamong the top 10 companies most
likely to benefit from AI. Now,fast forward to 2025 and
LexisNexis Legal & Professional,our legal business, has deployed
generative AI at scale acrossthe US, Canada, UK, France and
Australia, among othercountries, and generating
(01:25):
revenues. My guest today is SeanFitzpatrick, CEO of LexisNexis
for North America, UK andIreland. Sean is uniquely
positioned to share insights onhow the legal profession is
adapting to generative AI, therisks and opportunities, and
what this means for the futureof legal profession. So Sean,
(01:47):
welcome.
Sean Fitzpatrick (01:48):
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
YS Chi (01:50):
Yeah. How about we start with an introduction about
yourself from you. Tell us aboutyour background.
Sean Fitzpatrick (01:57):
Yeah, sure.
So, I've been at LexisNexis forjust under 20 years now. Hard to
believe that much time haspassed. When I came to
LexisNexis my children were justbabies. My daughter was two
years old and now she'sgraduating from college. So…
YS Chi (02:15):
Alright.
Congratulations.
Sean Fitzpatrick (02:17):
Thank you.
It's been a wonderful, wonderfuljourney. So, you know over that
time, I've had various jobs atLexisNexis. I came into
LexisNexis working in thestrategy organisation, and then
transitioned into a number ofdifferent P&L roles. About 10
years ago, I took onresponsibility for our North
American business, and aboutthree years ago, I took on
(02:38):
responsibility for our UKbusiness. So, that's kind of my
remit today. Prior toLexisNexis, I was a consultant
at McKinsey and Company, and Ihave an MBA from the University
of Michigan and an undergraddegree in accounting from the
University of Notre Dame.
YS Chi (02:55):
Alright. A Midwesterner?
Sean Fitzpatrick (02:58):
Yes
YS Chi (03:00):
So, you went from being in accounting to strategy and
now to actually running arelatively sophisticated and
huge business. Why in thisfield? I mean, from strategy,
you must have seen every kind ofindustry.
Sean Fitzpatrick (03:17):
Yeah, it was an interesting transition,
actually. I'd been at McKinseyfor a few years, and I had to
kind of make a decision that Iwant to try to become a partner
at McKinsey, or did I want totransition into a different
track? And I really wanted to goa different track, and so I
wanted to do the P & L route. Igot a call from a recruiter, and
(03:39):
I had not really done anything.
I hadn't put together my resume,I hadn't practiced any of my
interviewing skills. Thisrecruiter told me about this
opportunity to come to work forLexisNexis in the strategy
group. I kind of did a littleresearch on it, and I thought,
well, there's no way in theworld that I'm moving to Dayton,
Ohio. But I do want to get thisprocess moving and I need to get
(04:03):
my resume updated and I need topractice some skills, so this
will be a good practice roundfor me. Then I ended up going to
Dayton and interviewing, and Iguess things just got out of
control. The next thing I knew,I was signing the paperwork to
come to work for LexisNexis. Butwhat really happened in that
(04:23):
process that changed my mindabout working at LexisNexis was
I met a couple of individuals.
One of them was Rich Van Vleck.
Rich ran strategy and businessdevelopment at Lexis at the
time, and he talked to me aboutthe strategy of the company and
how LexisNexis had all thiscontent. And that we were at the
intersection of content andtechnology. The timing, you
(04:47):
know, was right to be at thatintersection. That was pretty
compelling to me. Then DarrellHuntsman was another individual
that I met, and Darrell sharedwith me his vision about how we
could take this content andembed it into technology
solutions, and then embed thosetechnology solutions into the
workflows of our customers. Ithought that was really
(05:10):
compelling as well.
YS Chi (05:14):
Well, I think the timing of the content meeting these
tech tools to be somethingvaluable, right? Something that
actually gives output, outcome,impact. That was great timing
for you.
Sean Fitzpatrick (05:28):
Definitely.
YS Chi (05:29):
Yeah. So, let's talk about great timing on AI. It's
generally accepted by legalprofessionals that Gen AI will
have a notable impact on legalwork, if not already there, and
visible. And that it hassignificant potential, but also
some adverse effects too. So youknow, LexisNexis was extremely
(05:50):
fast out the gate before anybodyelse, to adopt and roll out
these Gen AI solutions and intofull scale of LexisNexis
advanced, right? So you've gotnow already, thousands and
thousands of customers using GenAI. Anything from a one man
practice all the way tothousands of lawyers firms and
(06:14):
across many, many borders. Tellus what you're hearing from
those customers that areactually using them.
Sean Fitzpatrick (06:23):
Yeah, so we're seeing a number of different
things when it comes to theadoption of AI. I think the
first one is really speed. Youknow, the legal profession
hasn't typically been reallyquick to adopt new technologies,
but generative AI has been anexception to that. I like a
quote that I read from EmilyFloria, who's the director of
(06:44):
knowledge and research at DLA,which is one of the largest law
firms in the world and one ofthe most tech forward law firms
in the world. What she saidabout AI is, we went from zero
to 60 in one second. It wentfrom being on our radar to
something that we spent all ofour time on. And so that's just,
one of the things that we'reseeing with AI, is just how
(07:05):
quickly it's being adopted. Asecond thing is the kind of
these, I'll describe them as‘aha’ moments that attorneys are
having. So, I was reading astory about a partner at a law
firm in South Carolina. He wasat a bar sponsored event on AI,
and he watched the facts of acar accident case being loaded
(07:25):
into the system. And then thesystem delivered this argument.
And he said, you know, I readthe argument. It was an
excellent argument. It requireda few modifications, but with a
few modifications, I'd becomfortable taking this thing to
court. Then it produced a set ofcounter arguments, things that I
might face from opposingcounsel. And he said that was
(07:46):
kind of my ‘aha’ moment. I'mlike, okay, I get it. I
understand how this can beuseful in the practice of law.
There's another lawyer fromAustin, Texas. He described AI
as the law clerk that you'vealways dreamed of. I think
that's really what it is. We'renot looking to replace lawyers.
(08:08):
We're looking to give them toolsto help them drive better
outcomes for their clients andmake them more efficient in the
process.
YS Chi (08:14):
Well, that's a really important point Sean, right? So
many people believe that Gen AIwill actually replace lawyers
rather than aiding them.
Sean Fitzpatrick (08:26):
Yeah, I just don't believe that they're going
to replace lawyers. I think thatthey're going to make them more
efficient, and I think they'regoing to drive better outcomes.
The legal industry has beenadopting technology for decades.
I remember, as a person veryyoung in my career, going into a
(08:46):
deal room. It was an M&Atransaction and there were 30
attorneys in there, and everyattorney had a banker's box
sitting on their desk full ofcontracts. They were reviewing
every contract, word for word,and highlighting certain things
and putting sticky notes onthem. None of that happens
today. All of that is automated.
It's all done by computerstoday, but we have more
(09:07):
attorneys today than we hadthen. So it didn't replace the
attorneys. The attorneys wereable to actually become more
efficient, get better outcomesand drive their activities
towards more high value type oftasks. Instead of working on
just reviewing documents, nowthey're working on information
(09:30):
security. They're working oncomplex anti-trust issues.
They're looking for taxarbitrage, they're looking at
creative financingopportunities. Really been able
to transform the type of workthat they do, and I think that's
what we'll see with generativeAI. We're just going to see it
at a totally different scale.
YS Chi (09:49):
So, just taking that a little step further. Technology
has always replaced some of thehuman tasks and then regenerated
new type of tasks for those,either replaced or new, skilled
people. Is this going to be anydifferent?
Sean Fitzpatrick (10:09):
I think that it will be different. I think it
will be different in terms ofthe scale that it happens at.
But I think that the same thingwill happen here. I mean, we're
already seeing it. Lawyers arespending a lot of their time
providing guidance to theirclients on how to adopt
generative AI. There are allkinds of issues around
(10:32):
intellectual property that havebeen created by AI. Those things
are driving additional work forlawyers. So, there are already
shifting into new higher valuepractice areas and activities.
YS Chi (10:45):
So, one of the things that lay people like me would
question is, the business modelof law firms. It's based on
billable hours, how much workthey do. If a lot of their work
is become more efficient becauseof these tools, does that change
the billing model?
Sean Fitzpatrick (11:04):
You know what, it’s yet to be seen. I've been
hearing about the death of thebillable hour for 20 years, and
yet it's still predominantly themethod that attorneys use. So,
we'll see. I think that it does.
The introduction of AI poweredtools creates an opportunity,
potentially, for more fixed feetype arrangements, as things
(11:28):
become automated. You know,processes become automated and
more predictable. But it's yetto be seen whether that will
actually play out in the realworld.
YS Chi (11:40):
Right, and the best will always make great adaptive
moves. So, law firms will befine as long as they add value
to customers, and they see itthat way, right?
Sean Fitzpatrick (11:51):
That's right.
It comes down to how much value,are you creating. And we believe
that they're going to be able tocreate additional value.
YS Chi (11:57):
Yeah
Sean Fitzpatrick (11:57):
As they create additional value, they should be
able to charge more. And part ofit is, you're seeing it in
rates. So, the rates that firmsare charging are going up. The
cost per billable hour isincreasing. Well, that only
increases when you can createadditional value. So attorneys
are creating additional valueper hour.
YS Chi (12:19):
Differentiation, right?
Sean Fitzpatrick (12:21):
Yes
YS Chi (12:22):
Yeah. Another angle of efficiency comes from the
clients, and not LexisNexisclients, but the law firm’s
clients. If these things becomeso smart and usable, does it
help regular people like me, whoneeds to use lawyers to be
better prepared, and need to uselawyers less, because I can do
(12:46):
more things on my own, or morethings are done automatically,
so it should be much cheaper forme to engage a lawyer?
Unknown (12:54):
Yeah, but I don't think it's a good idea to practice law
on your own, or dentistry orbrain surgery or anything like
that. Medicine, you know. Ithink that these tools can
benefit normal citizens. I don'tthink it's going to allow them
to practice law, but I think itwill allow them to be more
(13:16):
prepared when they go in andtalk to their attorney. I think
it's going to allow them to bemore informed. I think it's
going to allow them to take theinformation that they get from
their attorney and to betterunderstand what that information
is, and what it means. But Idon't see it. I don't see this
empowering normal citizens topractice law.
YS Chi (13:39):
But some simple things are just going to be doable. I
mean, this is the case already20 years ago, right? When some
of the simple things that mighthave needed a lawyer. Consumer
can do on her own because thingsare just available on the
internet and they're relativelysimple.
Unknown (13:57):
Yeah. I mean, that's true. If you want to draft a
will. There are lots ofdifferent kits out there that
you can draft a will with. Imean, I certainly would want to
have an attorney take a look atmy will.
YS Chi (14:08):
Yeah, and that's the point, right? And I think that
in the past, you might have usedthe analogy of how, at the end
of all these technologicalinterventions, there's still a
pair of human eyes that need totake a look.
Sean Fitzpatrick (14:22):
Absolutely. We still need that attorney. The
law is very complicated. It'svery nuanced.
YS Chi (14:29):
And it constantly changes.
Sean Fitzpatrick (14:31):
Exactly. You need to have somebody, a
professional, that really knowswhat they're doing, to look at
any legal document, before yousign it. That would be my
approach, for sure.
YS Chi (14:42):
So, let's go down this lane just one more step. One of
the reasons why I really likethe idea of human intervention
at the end, as quality controland adding, additional value, is
this question of the downside ofAI. The whole concept of
(15:03):
hallucinations and deep fakes. Ithink that some of the listeners
will remember how in early 2023,lawyers in New York were
sanctioned for includingcompletely fictitious AI driven
citations in their filings. Iknow that those were early days,
but hallucination risks arestill very real today. So
(15:25):
ultimately, how do attorneys andlawyers expect to trust these
tools from LexisNexis?
Unknown (15:34):
Well, you hit on a really important point YS.
Veracity matters. Veracitymatters in the law, and it's the
responsibility of the attorney.
They ae responsible for theirfinal work product. It's not the
AI that's responsible. They'reresponsible for the documents
they submit to court, thedocuments that they use in
(15:55):
transactions and so on. AI canhelp them with that, but their
AI needs to provide them with alevel of transparency. They need
to be able to link back to theoriginal authority and check it,
and shepardize it and make sureit's good law, and be able to
stand up in court and say,“Yeah, this document is real,
(16:18):
and these citations are real,and I'm signing my name to it.
Everything in here is correct.”At LexisNexis, we're helping
customers with that. If you seea citation that's produced by
our generative AI, it will belinked back to our research
system. You can click on that.
(16:42):
You go directly back to theauthority, go back to the case.
You can read the case lawsummary. You can read the
shepherd's report. You canverify that it's a real case, a
real citation, and so on. So,there are some challenges, but
we're helping our customers workthrough those. Another challenge
that folks are facing isinformation security. These
(17:02):
attorneys, they're dealing withthe most sensitive information
in the world, in some cases, andthey need to be sure that data
is going to is being protected.
And again, at LexisNexis, we'vebeen doing data security for 50
years; data security and dataprivacy. We've been at the
forefront of using advancedencryption and privacy solutions
(17:23):
since the very beginning. It'sjust super important that
whoever folks partner with interms of generative AI, that
they've got that focus oninformation security.
YS Chi (17:38):
One area you mentioned that sometimes people inside the
company and our clients take forgranted is the high quality of
content that LexisNexis Legal &Professional uses as its base.
Correct? What can you tell meabout the investment that the
company is making, or stillmaking to make sure that
(18:02):
fundamental is not compromised.
Unknown (18:05):
We have one of the world's largest repositories of
authoritative legal material. Wehave over 100 billion documents
in our system. We collect over 2million documents every single
day and add it to that systemfrom 50,000 sources around the
world. It's important to be ableto have the most updated
(18:27):
information in your system atall times, and so we're
absolutely committed to doingthat. We also built an
ecosystem. So, it's not justabout collecting the documents,
but it's about identifying thelinkages between those
documents. We have over 150billion linkages identified
between different documents, soyou can see how they're related.
YS Chi (18:49):
This is the kind of stuff that makes LexisNexis so
unique and difficult to copy byjust any tech firm coming around
and trying to replicate what youdo.
Unknown (19:00):
That’s right. And a lot of that content is proprietary,
so it can't be copied.
YS Chi (19:04):
Yeah. Now, we've discussed the impact of AI on
the profession. I'd like toexplore a little bit the impact
of AI on the next generation ofpeople who are going to become
our lawyers. How is thisaffecting the education part of
the law, as they get ready to belawyers. What is happening at
the law schools?
Unknown (19:25):
There are 198 ABA accredited law schools across
the United States. 100% of thosenow have access to AI tools.
They are they're allincorporating it into their
programs. The last report that Isaw, and this is a while ago,
indicated over 90% of them hadincorporated AI into their
curriculum. I note that was awhile ago, because I think that
(19:46):
numbers approaching veryrapidly, approaching 100%. Every
law school is going to beteaching about generative AI.
When law firms hire newlygraduated attorney’s, they are
looking for folks that are readyto practice right. And this
generation of lawyers that'sgraduating from law schools,
(20:07):
they're going to be the mosttechnically savvy generation of
lawyers in history. And they aregoing to bring that technology,
those technology skills, intothe firms with them and help
strengthen the quality of thefirm's understanding and ability
to use that technology. It'sgoing to help them become more
(20:28):
efficient and more effective inthe practice of law. Another
thing is, is these tools do makeyou more efficient, and so if
you're more efficient in lawschool, you can spend time
working on things like legalwriting, which comes up
constantly as a as an area ofconcern. But you have, the law
schools have more time to teachlegal writing if they're
(20:51):
spending less time in otherareas because of the
efficiencies that have beengained. Then it also can help
lawyers become better writers.
As someone writes something, theability to put it through an AI
tool and analyse it and getimmediate feedback on it, and
suggestions on it, is one waythat you become a better writer.
YS Chi (21:15):
Right. And Gen AI is really changing all forms of
education right now. So, it'sreally exciting time.
Sean Fitzpatrick (21:21):
Absolutely.
YS Chi (21:23):
How about if we look a little bit further out there?
Can you talk about what yourvision is about where Gen AI
will take the legal professioneventually?
Unknown (21:35):
Yeah, so it's a great question. I have a number of
different views on it. Ourvision is that every attorney is
going to have a virtual, AIpowered assistant. And that
assistant is going to understandtheir jurisdiction, their
practice area. It’s going tounderstand their preferred
writing style. It's going tohave access to their prior work
(21:55):
product. It's going to haveaccess to all of our content,
one of the world's largestrepositories of authoritative
legal material.
YS Chi (22:03):
Let me stop there. So, you're really suggesting very
personalised AI tool?
Unknown (22:09):
Yeah. If they wanted to write something in their own
style. Being able to accesstheir prior work product to be
able to do that is one way thatthe technology can be used in
order to personalise things.
Understanding the practice areaand the jurisdiction allows you
to get to more refined resultsthat are going to be more on
point for what you're trying toachieve.
YS Chi (22:32):
That is so exciting Sean.
Unknown (22:33):
And these assistants are going to develop more skills
over time, and we believe thatthose skills are going to align
with the workflow of theattorney. In a lot of cases,
though, they'll automate thatworkflow to drive better
outcomes and make thoseattorneys more efficient. You
think about the different typesof attorneys. You can have a
(22:56):
real estate attorney, or an M&Aattorney, or a labour and
employment attorney. All thoseattorneys, while they're all
lawyers, they're all doing very,very different tasks, right? We
see a situation where there areagents for labour and employment
attorneys that will take thedifferent activities that they
do, and they'll automatedifferent things along that
(23:16):
workflow. If you think about,what an attorney does today
versus what they might dotomorrow. A typical morning
might start out with reading thenews about what's going on in
the law, doing some research ona case for a matter that they're
working on. They might draft amotion to dismiss for a
particular matter. Tomorrow,those same activities with the
(23:40):
power of AI might be quitedifferent. So instead of reading
the news, they'll get a curatedsummarisation of the key news
that's most important to them.
Instead of reading a case,they'll be able to read a case,
but they'll also be able to aska follow up question about that
case. Instead of drafting amotion, they'll be able to study
the tendencies of the judge, andhow often has she granted a
(24:03):
motion to dismiss. And how oftendoes she do it relative to her
peers, and when she does do it,what are the points that she
highlights. When she denies thatmotion, what are the things that
she points to.
YS Chi (24:18):
That last piece, that seems to be very analytic AI,
almost predictive AI. Is thatthe next thing coming around the
corner?
Unknown (24:27):
It might be. I think the tools are developing so
quickly, it's hard to sayexactly what's going to be next.
But, we've been using AI foryears. I mean, decades, really.
We use natural languageprocessing, we use machine
learning. We use, what some havedescribed as extractive AI, to
pull information out of largedata sets. We use generative AI
(24:51):
now. On the forefront, we're onthe forefront of predictive AI.
We're starting to see agentic AIcome in to practice. This is
where the AI tools areautonomously moving to the next
step without processing. They'reusing reasoning and logic to do
the next activity. For example,if you draft a document, after
(25:15):
you draft a document, what's thenext thing you're going to do?
Well probably review thatdocument, maybe make some
comments about that document,then go back and review those
comments and make changes to thedocument. And you might be
collaborating with someone elsethroughout that process. Well,
the tools are going to be ableto do those same things. It will
(25:35):
draft a document, it will sendit to another model, who will
review it, provide feedback. Themodel will pause, take that
feedback into consideration,make revisions. All this is
happening autonomously, withoutthe attorney prompting it. And
it's happening, at the speed atwhich bits and bytes, move
through these computer systems,which is nearly the speed of
(25:56):
light, right? To the attorney,it looks almost instantaneous.
YS Chi (26:00):
It's exciting what's going to be ahead. Just like you
mentioned earlier about wherecontent and technology met
together. About the timing ofyour joining this industry.
There's something about allthese things that you describe
that has to do with us actuallyknowing what the lawyers need.
(26:20):
Not only as someone who'sadopting technology. How do you
keep up with what the lawyersreally need as they face their
clients?
Unknown (26:30):
Well, we have a very collaborative process. We work
with clients on the developmentof all these products. They're
an integral part of everythingwe do in product development,
and we're really trying tounderstand what are the big pain
points for them, what are thechallenges that they're facing?
How do they see AI aspotentially assisting them in
(26:54):
solving those challenges? Wehave over 2000 research
scientists in the organisation.
We have, we employ, eitherdirectly or through contractors,
thousands of attorneys as well.
We put those entire teams,together with our clients, to
develop new solutions that moreeffectively address those pain
(27:16):
points and those challenges thatattorneys are facing every day.
YS Chi (27:19):
Right, and I just wanted to point out how quickly, after
the first euphoria came out inthe end of 2022 about Gen AI
that LexisNexis was able to turnaround within less than handful
month with already a product outthere. Which tells me that you
(27:41):
really knew what the customerswanted all along the way. You
really got the pulse.
Unknown (27:47):
Yes, I think we've always been focused on the
customer. They're at the centerof everything that we do. When
generative AI kind of exploded,we were already working with our
with our customers on generativeAI, and that allowed us to
launch a product in October of2023. Less than a year, after
(28:13):
kind of that explosion. We'vejust continued to iterate on it.
Now, we launched our latestgeneration of that called
Protégé. It takes everythingthat used to be able to do in
our AI assistant, and you coulddo it in Protégé, but usually
you can do it better now. It'sadded a whole new set of skills.
(28:33):
Now you can do things likeprepare for a deposition. You
can summarise a very complex,like a 100 page legal document.
You can draft a discoveryrequest. You can create a vault
of documents and you can dothings with that, like ask
questions to that set ofdocuments, or summarise that set
(28:53):
of documents. Or create atimeline based on information
that's in those documents. Youcan draft a set of
interrogatories, which is allthese activities that lawyers
do, that they wanted help with,and that they saw opportunities
to use generative AI for. We'veworked with them to develop
solutions that do that. I justsee this continuing to grow and
(29:15):
build again, like right down theline of the workflow of the
attorney in different practiceareas.
YS Chi (29:20):
Well, you're very modest about describing the impact that
Protégé will have to thelawyers, because I think it's
amazing tool that you've alreadyintroduced. It's already been
adopted and commercialised. It'sterrific.
Unknown (29:36):
I think that's one of the interesting things about
this. I was talking about allthe advancements and our vision.
The vision is not like a 10 yearvision. This is not about what
we're going to do 10 years fromnow, or five years from now, or
even three years from now. A lotof this stuff is available
today. So the stuff that's notavailable today, most of it's
(29:58):
going to be available within thenext year. We have been able to
move very, very quickly to turnthis into actual usable
products.
YS Chi (30:05):
Well, we're very happy that you were able to move so
quickly and that you continue tomove forward like that. Sean,
I'm very jealous of the stuffthat you're doing and how much
success you're garneringalready, but we can't leave our
conversation without talkingabout something that is the true
undercurrent in yourorganisation, which is your
(30:26):
embracing of the rule of law. Itis so central to what LexisNexis
is. Tell me one more time, whyis that the case and how does
the advancing of the rule of lawreally help us be in the
business?
Unknown (30:44):
Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I think
it's a topic that we probablydon't spend enough time talking
about, and it's so central towhat we do. It's our mission.
Our mission is to advance therule of law around the world. If
you look at the studies of theimpact of the rule of law, which
you'll see, and this has beenvery well documented, is that as
(31:07):
the rule of law gets stronger inany jurisdiction, the quality of
life improves. If you can usealmost any metric for quality of
life, and you can see thecorrelation, GDP, per capita,
life expectancy, infantmortality. All of the outcomes
improve as the strength of lawimproves. We have about 8
(31:27):
billion people now living onthis planet, and about half of
them live outside of theprotection of the rule of law
today. How do you solve, goabout solving a problem that
affects 4 billion people? Andhow do you solve that problem
quickly? Well, any problemthat's that big requires a lot
(31:48):
of different layers to solve it,but one of those layers
certainly needs to betechnology. And that's really
what we bring to the game,technology. And with these AI
powered tools, I think we'regoing to be able to be able to
bring technology to theforefront even faster, improving
the strength of the rule of lawand thereby improving the
(32:09):
quality of life for peoplearound the world.
YS Chi (32:11):
Well, I think the way I look at it now, is that you have
a combination of customercentricity, unique and
high-quality content, infusionof technology as it develops,
all wrapped up in this greatmission of advancing the rule of
law. That's really what makesyou so unique.
Unknown (32:34):
Thank you. Yes. Good summary.
YS Chi (32:37):
Well, I'm again, very jealous of what you get to do.
You and I joined this companyalmost at the same time. I'm
about three months ahead of youand I've seen this happen at
LexisNexis. I've seen it happenin our other businesses, and I
think you and I, we really enjoythe journey.
Unknown (32:57):
Absolutely. And thank you so much, YS for spending
this time with me today andgiving us a chance to share our
story. Thank you so much foreverything that you do for our
customers as well.
YS Chi (33:08):
Thank you, and I hope that I will see you very soon at
one of our intersections.
Unknown (33:15):
Excellent. Looking forward to it.
YS Chi (33:18):
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Don't
forget to hit subscribe on yourpodcast app to get new episodes
as soon as they're released.
The unique contributions podcast is brought to you by
RELX. Find out more about us byvisiting relx.com
Sean Fitzpatrick (00:14):
You know the vision is not like a 10-year
vision. This is not about whatwe're going to do 10 years from
now, or five years from now, oreven three years from now, a lot
of this stuff is availabletoday.
YS Chi (00:41):
Hello and welcome to a special episode on AI and the
law. RELX has been usingextractive AI across the company
for well over a decade, and nowgenerative AI. In early 2024
Bank of America, an investmentbank, said that 2023 was the
year of the ‘AI enablers.’ While2024 would be the year of the
(01:03):
‘AI adopters.’ RELX was listedamong the top 10 companies most
likely to benefit from AI. Now,fast forward to 2025 and
LexisNexis Legal & Professional,our legal business, has deployed
generative AI at scale acrossthe US, Canada, UK, France and
Australia, among othercountries, and generating
(01:25):
revenues. My guest today is SeanFitzpatrick, CEO of LexisNexis
for North America, UK andIreland. Sean is uniquely
positioned to share insights onhow the legal profession is
adapting to generative AI, therisks and opportunities, and
what this means for the futureof legal profession. So Sean,
(01:47):
welcome.
Sean Fitzpatrick (01:48):
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
YS Chi (01:50):
Yeah. How about we start with an introduction about
yourself from you. Tell us aboutyour background.
Sean Fitzpatrick (01:57):
Yeah, sure.
So, I've been at LexisNexis forjust under 20 years now. Hard to
believe that much time haspassed. When I came to
LexisNexis my children were justbabies. My daughter was two
years old and now she'sgraduating from college. So…
YS Chi (02:15):
Alright.
Congratulations.
Sean Fitzpatrick (02:17):
Thank you.
It's been a wonderful, wonderfuljourney. So, you know over that
time, I've had various jobs atLexisNexis. I came into
LexisNexis working in thestrategy organisation, and then
transitioned into a number ofdifferent P&L roles. About 10
years ago, I took onresponsibility for our North
American business, and aboutthree years ago, I took on
(02:38):
responsibility for our UKbusiness. So, that's kind of my
remit today. Prior toLexisNexis, I was a consultant
at McKinsey and Company, and Ihave an MBA from the University
of Michigan and an undergraddegree in accounting from the
University of Notre Dame.
YS Chi (02:55):
Alright. A Midwesterner?
Sean Fitzpatrick (02:58):
Yes
YS Chi (03:00):
So, you went from being in accounting to strategy and
now to actually running arelatively sophisticated and
huge business. Why in thisfield? I mean, from strategy,
you must have seen every kind ofindustry.
Sean Fitzpatrick (03:17):
Yeah, it was an interesting transition,
actually. I'd been at McKinseyfor a few years, and I had to
kind of make a decision that Iwant to try to become a partner
at McKinsey, or did I want totransition into a different
track? And I really wanted to goa different track, and so I
wanted to do the P & L route. Igot a call from a recruiter, and
(03:39):
I had not really done anything.
I hadn't put together my resume,I hadn't practiced any of my
interviewing skills. Thisrecruiter told me about this
opportunity to come to work forLexisNexis in the strategy
group. I kind of did a littleresearch on it, and I thought,
well, there's no way in theworld that I'm moving to Dayton,
Ohio. But I do want to get thisprocess moving and I need to get
(04:03):
my resume updated and I need topractice some skills, so this
will be a good practice roundfor me. Then I ended up going to
Dayton and interviewing, and Iguess things just got out of
control. The next thing I knew,I was signing the paperwork to
come to work for LexisNexis. Butwhat really happened in that
(04:23):
process that changed my mindabout working at LexisNexis was
I met a couple of individuals.
One of them was Rich Van Vleck.
Rich ran strategy and businessdevelopment at Lexis at the
time, and he talked to me aboutthe strategy of the company and
how LexisNexis had all thiscontent. And that we were at the
intersection of content andtechnology. The timing, you
(04:47):
know, was right to be at thatintersection. That was pretty
compelling to me. Then DarrellHuntsman was another individual
that I met, and Darrell sharedwith me his vision about how we
could take this content andembed it into technology
solutions, and then embed thosetechnology solutions into the
workflows of our customers. Ithought that was really
(05:10):
compelling as well.
YS Chi (05:14):
Well, I think the timing of the content meeting these
tech tools to be somethingvaluable, right? Something that
actually gives output, outcome,impact. That was great timing
for you.
Sean Fitzpatrick (05:28):
Definitely.
YS Chi (05:29):
Yeah. So, let's talk about great timing on AI. It's
generally accepted by legalprofessionals that Gen AI will
have a notable impact on legalwork, if not already there, and
visible. And that it hassignificant potential, but also
some adverse effects too. So youknow, LexisNexis was extremely
(05:50):
fast out the gate before anybodyelse, to adopt and roll out
these Gen AI solutions and intofull scale of LexisNexis
advanced, right? So you've gotnow already, thousands and
thousands of customers using GenAI. Anything from a one man
practice all the way tothousands of lawyers firms and
(06:14):
across many, many borders. Tellus what you're hearing from
those customers that areactually using them.
Sean Fitzpatrick (06:23):
Yeah, so we're seeing a number of different
things when it comes to theadoption of AI. I think the
first one is really speed. Youknow, the legal profession
hasn't typically been reallyquick to adopt new technologies,
but generative AI has been anexception to that. I like a
quote that I read from EmilyFloria, who's the director of
(06:44):
knowledge and research at DLA,which is one of the largest law
firms in the world and one ofthe most tech forward law firms
in the world. What she saidabout AI is, we went from zero
to 60 in one second. It wentfrom being on our radar to
something that we spent all ofour time on. And so that's just,
one of the things that we'reseeing with AI, is just how
(07:05):
quickly it's being adopted. Asecond thing is the kind of
these, I'll describe them as‘aha’ moments that attorneys are
having. So, I was reading astory about a partner at a law
firm in South Carolina. He wasat a bar sponsored event on AI,
and he watched the facts of acar accident case being loaded
(07:25):
into the system. And then thesystem delivered this argument.
And he said, you know, I readthe argument. It was an
excellent argument. It requireda few modifications, but with a
few modifications, I'd becomfortable taking this thing to
court. Then it produced a set ofcounter arguments, things that I
might face from opposingcounsel. And he said that was
(07:46):
kind of my ‘aha’ moment. I'mlike, okay, I get it. I
understand how this can beuseful in the practice of law.
There's another lawyer fromAustin, Texas. He described AI
as the law clerk that you'vealways dreamed of. I think
that's really what it is. We'renot looking to replace lawyers.
(08:08):
We're looking to give them toolsto help them drive better
outcomes for their clients andmake them more efficient in the
process.
YS Chi (08:14):
Well, that's a really important point Sean, right? So
many people believe that Gen AIwill actually replace lawyers
rather than aiding them.
Sean Fitzpatrick (08:26):
Yeah, I just don't believe that they're going
to replace lawyers. I think thatthey're going to make them more
efficient, and I think they'regoing to drive better outcomes.
The legal industry has beenadopting technology for decades.
I remember, as a person veryyoung in my career, going into a
(08:46):
deal room. It was an M&Atransaction and there were 30
attorneys in there, and everyattorney had a banker's box
sitting on their desk full ofcontracts. They were reviewing
every contract, word for word,and highlighting certain things
and putting sticky notes onthem. None of that happens
today. All of that is automated.
It's all done by computerstoday, but we have more
(09:07):
attorneys today than we hadthen. So it didn't replace the
attorneys. The attorneys wereable to actually become more
efficient, get better outcomesand drive their activities
towards more high value type oftasks. Instead of working on
just reviewing documents, nowthey're working on information
(09:30):
security. They're working oncomplex anti-trust issues.
They're looking for taxarbitrage, they're looking at
creative financingopportunities. Really been able
to transform the type of workthat they do, and I think that's
what we'll see with generativeAI. We're just going to see it
at a totally different scale.
YS Chi (09:49):
So, just taking that a little step further. Technology
has always replaced some of thehuman tasks and then regenerated
new type of tasks for those,either replaced or new, skilled
people. Is this going to be anydifferent?
Sean Fitzpatrick (10:09):
I think that it will be different. I think it
will be different in terms ofthe scale that it happens at.
But I think that the same thingwill happen here. I mean, we're
already seeing it. Lawyers arespending a lot of their time
providing guidance to theirclients on how to adopt
generative AI. There are allkinds of issues around
(10:32):
intellectual property that havebeen created by AI. Those things
are driving additional work forlawyers. So, there are already
shifting into new higher valuepractice areas and activities.
YS Chi (10:45):
So, one of the things that lay people like me would
question is, the business modelof law firms. It's based on
billable hours, how much workthey do. If a lot of their work
is become more efficient becauseof these tools, does that change
the billing model?
Sean Fitzpatrick (11:04):
You know what, it’s yet to be seen. I've been
hearing about the death of thebillable hour for 20 years, and
yet it's still predominantly themethod that attorneys use. So,
we'll see. I think that it does.
The introduction of AI poweredtools creates an opportunity,
potentially, for more fixed feetype arrangements, as things
(11:28):
become automated. You know,processes become automated and
more predictable. But it's yetto be seen whether that will
actually play out in the realworld.
YS Chi (11:40):
Right, and the best will always make great adaptive
moves. So, law firms will befine as long as they add value
to customers, and they see itthat way, right?
Sean Fitzpatrick (11:51):
That's right.
It comes down to how much value,are you creating. And we believe
that they're going to be able tocreate additional value.
YS Chi (11:57):
Yeah
Sean Fitzpatrick (11:57):
As they create additional value, they should be
able to charge more. And part ofit is, you're seeing it in
rates. So, the rates that firmsare charging are going up. The
cost per billable hour isincreasing. Well, that only
increases when you can createadditional value. So attorneys
are creating additional valueper hour.
YS Chi (12:19):
Differentiation, right?
Sean Fitzpatrick (12:21):
Yes
YS Chi (12:22):
Yeah. Another angle of efficiency comes from the
clients, and not LexisNexisclients, but the law firm’s
clients. If these things becomeso smart and usable, does it
help regular people like me, whoneeds to use lawyers to be
better prepared, and need to uselawyers less, because I can do
(12:46):
more things on my own, or morethings are done automatically,
so it should be much cheaper forme to engage a lawyer?
Unknown (12:54):
Yeah, but I don't think it's a good idea to practice law
on your own, or dentistry orbrain surgery or anything like
that. Medicine, you know. Ithink that these tools can
benefit normal citizens. I don'tthink it's going to allow them
to practice law, but I think itwill allow them to be more
(13:16):
prepared when they go in andtalk to their attorney. I think
it's going to allow them to bemore informed. I think it's
going to allow them to take theinformation that they get from
their attorney and to betterunderstand what that information
is, and what it means. But Idon't see it. I don't see this
empowering normal citizens topractice law.
YS Chi (13:39):
But some simple things are just going to be doable. I
mean, this is the case already20 years ago, right? When some
of the simple things that mighthave needed a lawyer. Consumer
can do on her own because thingsare just available on the
internet and they're relativelysimple.
Unknown (13:57):
Yeah. I mean, that's true. If you want to draft a
will. There are lots ofdifferent kits out there that
you can draft a will with. Imean, I certainly would want to
have an attorney take a look atmy will.
YS Chi (14:08):
Yeah, and that's the point, right? And I think that
in the past, you might have usedthe analogy of how, at the end
of all these technologicalinterventions, there's still a
pair of human eyes that need totake a look.
Sean Fitzpatrick (14:22):
Absolutely. We still need that attorney. The
law is very complicated. It'svery nuanced.
YS Chi (14:29):
And it constantly changes.
Sean Fitzpatrick (14:31):
Exactly. You need to have somebody, a
professional, that really knowswhat they're doing, to look at
any legal document, before yousign it. That would be my
approach, for sure.
YS Chi (14:42):
So, let's go down this lane just one more step. One of
the reasons why I really likethe idea of human intervention
at the end, as quality controland adding, additional value, is
this question of the downside ofAI. The whole concept of
(15:03):
hallucinations and deep fakes. Ithink that some of the listeners
will remember how in early 2023,lawyers in New York were
sanctioned for includingcompletely fictitious AI driven
citations in their filings. Iknow that those were early days,
but hallucination risks arestill very real today. So
(15:25):
ultimately, how do attorneys andlawyers expect to trust these
tools from LexisNexis?
Unknown (15:34):
Well, you hit on a really important point YS.
Veracity matters. Veracitymatters in the law, and it's the
responsibility of the attorney.
They ae responsible for theirfinal work product. It's not the
AI that's responsible. They'reresponsible for the documents
they submit to court, thedocuments that they use in
(15:55):
transactions and so on. AI canhelp them with that, but their
AI needs to provide them with alevel of transparency. They need
to be able to link back to theoriginal authority and check it,
and shepardize it and make sureit's good law, and be able to
stand up in court and say,“Yeah, this document is real,
(16:18):
and these citations are real,and I'm signing my name to it.
Everything in here is correct.”At LexisNexis, we're helping
customers with that. If you seea citation that's produced by
our generative AI, it will belinked back to our research
system. You can click on that.
(16:42):
You go directly back to theauthority, go back to the case.
You can read the case lawsummary. You can read the
shepherd's report. You canverify that it's a real case, a
real citation, and so on. So,there are some challenges, but
we're helping our customers workthrough those. Another challenge
that folks are facing isinformation security. These
(17:02):
attorneys, they're dealing withthe most sensitive information
in the world, in some cases, andthey need to be sure that data
is going to is being protected.
And again, at LexisNexis, we'vebeen doing data security for 50
years; data security and dataprivacy. We've been at the
forefront of using advancedencryption and privacy solutions
(17:23):
since the very beginning. It'sjust super important that
whoever folks partner with interms of generative AI, that
they've got that focus oninformation security.
YS Chi (17:38):
One area you mentioned that sometimes people inside the
company and our clients take forgranted is the high quality of
content that LexisNexis Legal &Professional uses as its base.
Correct? What can you tell meabout the investment that the
company is making, or stillmaking to make sure that
(18:02):
fundamental is not compromised.
Unknown (18:05):
We have one of the world's largest repositories of
authoritative legal material. Wehave over 100 billion documents
in our system. We collect over 2million documents every single
day and add it to that systemfrom 50,000 sources around the
world. It's important to be ableto have the most updated
(18:27):
information in your system atall times, and so we're
absolutely committed to doingthat. We also built an
ecosystem. So, it's not justabout collecting the documents,
but it's about identifying thelinkages between those
documents. We have over 150billion linkages identified
between different documents, soyou can see how they're related.
YS Chi (18:49):
This is the kind of stuff that makes LexisNexis so
unique and difficult to copy byjust any tech firm coming around
and trying to replicate what youdo.
Unknown (19:00):
That’s right. And a lot of that content is proprietary,
so it can't be copied.
YS Chi (19:04):
Yeah. Now, we've discussed the impact of AI on
the profession. I'd like toexplore a little bit the impact
of AI on the next generation ofpeople who are going to become
our lawyers. How is thisaffecting the education part of
the law, as they get ready to belawyers. What is happening at
the law schools?
Unknown (19:25):
There are 198 ABA accredited law schools across
the United States. 100% of thosenow have access to AI tools.
They are they're allincorporating it into their
programs. The last report that Isaw, and this is a while ago,
indicated over 90% of them hadincorporated AI into their
curriculum. I note that was awhile ago, because I think that
(19:46):
numbers approaching veryrapidly, approaching 100%. Every
law school is going to beteaching about generative AI.
When law firms hire newlygraduated attorney’s, they are
looking for folks that are readyto practice right. And this
generation of lawyers that'sgraduating from law schools,
(20:07):
they're going to be the mosttechnically savvy generation of
lawyers in history. And they aregoing to bring that technology,
those technology skills, intothe firms with them and help
strengthen the quality of thefirm's understanding and ability
to use that technology. It'sgoing to help them become more
(20:28):
efficient and more effective inthe practice of law. Another
thing is, is these tools do makeyou more efficient, and so if
you're more efficient in lawschool, you can spend time
working on things like legalwriting, which comes up
constantly as a as an area ofconcern. But you have, the law
schools have more time to teachlegal writing if they're
(20:51):
spending less time in otherareas because of the
efficiencies that have beengained. Then it also can help
lawyers become better writers.
As someone writes something, theability to put it through an AI
tool and analyse it and getimmediate feedback on it, and
suggestions on it, is one waythat you become a better writer.
YS Chi (21:15):
Right. And Gen AI is really changing all forms of
education right now. So, it'sreally exciting time.
Sean Fitzpatrick (21:21):
Absolutely.
YS Chi (21:23):
How about if we look a little bit further out there?
Can you talk about what yourvision is about where Gen AI
will take the legal professioneventually?
Unknown (21:35):
Yeah, so it's a great question. I have a number of
different views on it. Ourvision is that every attorney is
going to have a virtual, AIpowered assistant. And that
assistant is going to understandtheir jurisdiction, their
practice area. It’s going tounderstand their preferred
writing style. It's going tohave access to their prior work
(21:55):
product. It's going to haveaccess to all of our content,
one of the world's largestrepositories of authoritative
legal material.
YS Chi (22:03):
Let me stop there. So, you're really suggesting very
personalised AI tool?
Unknown (22:09):
Yeah. If they wanted to write something in their own
style. Being able to accesstheir prior work product to be
able to do that is one way thatthe technology can be used in
order to personalise things.
Understanding the practice areaand the jurisdiction allows you
to get to more refined resultsthat are going to be more on
point for what you're trying toachieve.
YS Chi (22:32):
That is so exciting Sean.
Unknown (22:33):
And these assistants are going to develop more skills
over time, and we believe thatthose skills are going to align
with the workflow of theattorney. In a lot of cases,
though, they'll automate thatworkflow to drive better
outcomes and make thoseattorneys more efficient. You
think about the different typesof attorneys. You can have a
(22:56):
real estate attorney, or an M&Aattorney, or a labour and
employment attorney. All thoseattorneys, while they're all
lawyers, they're all doing very,very different tasks, right? We
see a situation where there areagents for labour and employment
attorneys that will take thedifferent activities that they
do, and they'll automatedifferent things along that
(23:16):
workflow. If you think about,what an attorney does today
versus what they might dotomorrow. A typical morning
might start out with reading thenews about what's going on in
the law, doing some research ona case for a matter that they're
working on. They might draft amotion to dismiss for a
particular matter. Tomorrow,those same activities with the
(23:40):
power of AI might be quitedifferent. So instead of reading
the news, they'll get a curatedsummarisation of the key news
that's most important to them.
Instead of reading a case,they'll be able to read a case,
but they'll also be able to aska follow up question about that
case. Instead of drafting amotion, they'll be able to study
the tendencies of the judge, andhow often has she granted a
(24:03):
motion to dismiss. And how oftendoes she do it relative to her
peers, and when she does do it,what are the points that she
highlights. When she denies thatmotion, what are the things that
she points to.
YS Chi (24:18):
That last piece, that seems to be very analytic AI,
almost predictive AI. Is thatthe next thing coming around the
corner?
Unknown (24:27):
It might be. I think the tools are developing so
quickly, it's hard to sayexactly what's going to be next.
But, we've been using AI foryears. I mean, decades, really.
We use natural languageprocessing, we use machine
learning. We use, what some havedescribed as extractive AI, to
pull information out of largedata sets. We use generative AI
(24:51):
now. On the forefront, we're onthe forefront of predictive AI.
We're starting to see agentic AIcome in to practice. This is
where the AI tools areautonomously moving to the next
step without processing. They'reusing reasoning and logic to do
the next activity. For example,if you draft a document, after
(25:15):
you draft a document, what's thenext thing you're going to do?
Well probably review thatdocument, maybe make some
comments about that document,then go back and review those
comments and make changes to thedocument. And you might be
collaborating with someone elsethroughout that process. Well,
the tools are going to be ableto do those same things. It will
(25:35):
draft a document, it will sendit to another model, who will
review it, provide feedback. Themodel will pause, take that
feedback into consideration,make revisions. All this is
happening autonomously, withoutthe attorney prompting it. And
it's happening, at the speed atwhich bits and bytes, move
through these computer systems,which is nearly the speed of
(25:56):
light, right? To the attorney,it looks almost instantaneous.
YS Chi (26:00):
It's exciting what's going to be ahead. Just like you
mentioned earlier about wherecontent and technology met
together. About the timing ofyour joining this industry.
There's something about allthese things that you describe
that has to do with us actuallyknowing what the lawyers need.
(26:20):
Not only as someone who'sadopting technology. How do you
keep up with what the lawyersreally need as they face their
clients?
Unknown (26:30):
Well, we have a very collaborative process. We work
with clients on the developmentof all these products. They're
an integral part of everythingwe do in product development,
and we're really trying tounderstand what are the big pain
points for them, what are thechallenges that they're facing?
How do they see AI aspotentially assisting them in
(26:54):
solving those challenges? Wehave over 2000 research
scientists in the organisation.
We have, we employ, eitherdirectly or through contractors,
thousands of attorneys as well.
We put those entire teams,together with our clients, to
develop new solutions that moreeffectively address those pain
(27:16):
points and those challenges thatattorneys are facing every day.
YS Chi (27:19):
Right, and I just wanted to point out how quickly, after
the first euphoria came out inthe end of 2022 about Gen AI
that LexisNexis was able to turnaround within less than handful
month with already a product outthere. Which tells me that you
(27:41):
really knew what the customerswanted all along the way. You
really got the pulse.
Unknown (27:47):
Yes, I think we've always been focused on the
customer. They're at the centerof everything that we do. When
generative AI kind of exploded,we were already working with our
with our customers on generativeAI, and that allowed us to
launch a product in October of2023. Less than a year, after
(28:13):
kind of that explosion. We'vejust continued to iterate on it.
Now, we launched our latestgeneration of that called
Protégé. It takes everythingthat used to be able to do in
our AI assistant, and you coulddo it in Protégé, but usually
you can do it better now. It'sadded a whole new set of skills.
(28:33):
Now you can do things likeprepare for a deposition. You
can summarise a very complex,like a 100 page legal document.
You can draft a discoveryrequest. You can create a vault
of documents and you can dothings with that, like ask
questions to that set ofdocuments, or summarise that set
(28:53):
of documents. Or create atimeline based on information
that's in those documents. Youcan draft a set of
interrogatories, which is allthese activities that lawyers
do, that they wanted help with,and that they saw opportunities
to use generative AI for. We'veworked with them to develop
solutions that do that. I justsee this continuing to grow and
(29:15):
build again, like right down theline of the workflow of the
attorney in different practiceareas.
YS Chi (29:20):
Well, you're very modest about describing the impact that
Protégé will have to thelawyers, because I think it's
amazing tool that you've alreadyintroduced. It's already been
adopted and commercialised. It'sterrific.
Unknown (29:36):
I think that's one of the interesting things about
this. I was talking about allthe advancements and our vision.
The vision is not like a 10 yearvision. This is not about what
we're going to do 10 years fromnow, or five years from now, or
even three years from now. A lotof this stuff is available
today. So the stuff that's notavailable today, most of it's
(29:58):
going to be available within thenext year. We have been able to
move very, very quickly to turnthis into actual usable
products.
YS Chi (30:05):
Well, we're very happy that you were able to move so
quickly and that you continue tomove forward like that. Sean,
I'm very jealous of the stuffthat you're doing and how much
success you're garneringalready, but we can't leave our
conversation without talkingabout something that is the true
undercurrent in yourorganisation, which is your
(30:26):
embracing of the rule of law. Itis so central to what LexisNexis
is. Tell me one more time, whyis that the case and how does
the advancing of the rule of lawreally help us be in the
business?
Unknown (30:44):
Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I think
it's a topic that we probablydon't spend enough time talking
about, and it's so central towhat we do. It's our mission.
Our mission is to advance therule of law around the world. If
you look at the studies of theimpact of the rule of law, which
you'll see, and this has beenvery well documented, is that as
(31:07):
the rule of law gets stronger inany jurisdiction, the quality of
life improves. If you can usealmost any metric for quality of
life, and you can see thecorrelation, GDP, per capita,
life expectancy, infantmortality. All of the outcomes
improve as the strength of lawimproves. We have about 8
(31:27):
billion people now living onthis planet, and about half of
them live outside of theprotection of the rule of law
today. How do you solve, goabout solving a problem that
affects 4 billion people? Andhow do you solve that problem
quickly? Well, any problemthat's that big requires a lot
(31:48):
of different layers to solve it,but one of those layers
certainly needs to betechnology. And that's really
what we bring to the game,technology. And with these AI
powered tools, I think we'regoing to be able to be able to
bring technology to theforefront even faster, improving
the strength of the rule of lawand thereby improving the
(32:09):
quality of life for peoplearound the world.
YS Chi (32:11):
Well, I think the way I look at it now, is that you have
a combination of customercentricity, unique and
high-quality content, infusionof technology as it develops,
all wrapped up in this greatmission of advancing the rule of
law. That's really what makesyou so unique.
Unknown (32:34):
Thank you. Yes. Good summary.
YS Chi (32:37):
Well, I'm again, very jealous of what you get to do.
You and I joined this companyalmost at the same time. I'm
about three months ahead of youand I've seen this happen at
LexisNexis. I've seen it happenin our other businesses, and I
think you and I, we really enjoythe journey.
Unknown (32:57):
Absolutely. And thank you so much, YS for spending
this time with me today andgiving us a chance to share our
story. Thank you so much foreverything that you do for our
customers as well.
YS Chi (33:08):
Thank you, and I hope that I will see you very soon at
one of our intersections.
Unknown (33:15):
Excellent. Looking forward to it.
YS Chi (33:18):
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Don't
forget to hit subscribe on yourpodcast app to get new episodes
as soon as they're released.
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