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February 15, 2021 21 mins

Turk felt the sting of race starting at a young age, and with humor as her shield, it set her on a path to building inclusive workspaces for those who need it most.

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Turk (00:10):
You know, if I see a confederate flag on someone's
hat, something's gonna happen. Idon't know if I'm gonna think
about it first, or if my body'sgonna do it first. So to tell
someone to get over it, it's notsomething that's in your head,
it's in your body. It's like,are you crazy. And there's
certain rage that we allow, andwe know...we know who's rage we
will allow. You know, I'll hearyour pain. I'm good, but you

(00:31):
gotta hear other people's paintoo.

DB Crema (00:35):
This is United States of Race. Personal stories of how
our earliest memories determinea lifetime of relationships.
Each episode features one guestsharing their experiences with
race. Keeping these episodesanonymous, lets our guests share
the real uninhibited stories oftheir life. And it gives us the

(00:56):
chance to listen withoutprejudice. I'm your host, DB
Crema. Today, we're joined byTurk, who felt this thing of
race starting at a young age.
And with humor as her shield,it's set her on a path to
building inclusive workspacesfor those who need it most.

(01:19):
When did you start dealing withrace?

Turk (01:22):
I think my first memory is being on a school bus, I'd say
probably around the ages ofseven or eight. And this little
boy sat next to me. And hewas...you know, we're talking
like kids, we're just talking.
And I just moved there, becausewe move back from an Arab
Emirate. You know, he wastalking, and then he got a
little sad, because he said hecouldn't be my friend. Because
his dad said that he can't befriends with black people. And I

(01:42):
remember flipping my hand overin showing him that my palm was
white. And so he smiled. And tohim, that was enough. You know.
Of course, that was thebeginning of my exposure to race
when I moved back from Manama,Bahrain, to the States, up until

(02:04):
then I was, you know, living ina pretty multicultural
atmosphere.

DB Crema (02:11):
Interesting, I think about typical U.S.perspective,
is that the Middle East, theEmirates, are, you know, more
homogenous.

Turk (02:21):
Right, right. Well, Yeah.
You know, military brat, ofcourse. So, being in the
military definitely gives you adifferent aspect. But I'm sure
most people if they go toManama, Bahrain will feel like
it's just only Arabs. You know,I think I went to like a
Department of Defense school. Soyou had people - contractors
that were working there. So Imay have been the only black
American but I wasn't the onlylike black or brown person. So

(02:42):
you would have someone fromIndia, you had people from
Japan. There were differentshades that I was used to. So I
just thought, you know, God justmade people in in different
shades.

DB Crema (02:54):
Did you ever feel like there was any reaction to you or
to other shades?

Turk (03:01):
Um, you know, it's hard to say because then if you think of
it as an adult, we're they...wasthere a certain reaction to me
because I was black or because Iwas an American. The Arabs at
the souk thought it was adorablethat I could speak, you know,
Arabic and things like that.
This little American kid. So Idon't know if it's because I was
a black American kid or I was anAmerican kid. So I think that
has a lot to do with how I saw,you know, how I saw race. So

(03:24):
maybe people's first interactionwith me wasn't based on my race,
but based on my citizenship. Butthe United States was definitely
a more black, white. You know,there wasn't that much gray
area. So yeah.

DB Crema (03:40):
So then you came back to the US, which has its own
special brand of drawingdistinctive lines along color
and race.

Turk (03:47):
We came back we moved to Key West Florida. And this had
to be like in 82. It wasn't muchthere back then. My mother was
worried about me because I was ashy kid. But there were just a
few instances that, you know, Iquickly learned that this is a
different atmosphere thanManama, Bahrain, and this is
probably one of her firstmemories when they had to sit me
down and talk to me. She was,you know, talking to the

(04:11):
teachers or teachers helpers,and like, I'm worried about my
daughter, because you know,she's shy. We just moved here.
And I guess the teacher toldher, Hey, don't worry about your
kids. She's okay, because Iheard some little girl tell her
that, you're black because Godmust have taken you out of the
oven too late. And she goes,your daughter turned around
without missing a beat and said,Well, he must have taken you out

(04:32):
too early. You know, my dad wasa very funny guy. So I think
humor is definitely - I usehumor to, you know, to cover up
a lot. You know, I used to sneakand watch the Jeffersons and
Benny Hill so maybe that was it.
I don't know.

DB Crema (04:49):
Picked up all the quick retorts.

Turk (04:50):
yeah. But that's definitely a story my mom always
tell. She always thought thatwas hilarious and she kind of
felt better that I could takecare of myself.

DB Crema (04:58):
Mm hmm.

Turk (05:00):
I'll tell you another story, but it's not funny. It's
kind of sad. So when I went to -we moved to Key West, and then
we left Key West, we moved toNorthern Florida. And my first
year there, I had got, like, hitin the lunchroom at the school.
And I told my mom about it. AndI didn't think, you know,
anything was going to happenabout it. And she actually

(05:21):
called the police. You know,and, and then, a friend of mine
that I had, in the second grade,was a witness for me. It was a
little boy, he was, like, eight.
And my mom said to me at thattime, she was like, now this is
nice that these people came tobe your witness. But don't count
on that. Most times, you'regoing to be the only person

(05:42):
who's gonna be able to speak upfor yourself. So I think as a
kid, that's kind of like, Ah, soyou're telling me, I shouldn't
trust most people? Yeah, butyeah, you know, there are a lot
of things that I know happen,but I block out, like children
telling you get in the back ofthe line, because your mom's

(06:06):
black. Now, who you think toldthem that? Seven or eight year
olds? Come on. You know, that'sa lot to do how you raised cuz I
was like, I was eight years old.
I thought I would be a littlebit more hip to race earlier.
But, yeah, man, there's a lot ofstuff that happened in the great
state of Florida. I still stickup for her. When stuff happens

(06:30):
now, I think I detach. You know,I'm like, uh, you know, like,
right now I'm like, kind of,like, when you're at a concert,
and they call it all thesegroups, that should scream.
Like, right now. It's like,white people make some noise
it's their turn to scream. Iwant to hear you. I'm in the
bathroom during this set, youknow, what I'm saying? I'm
outside smoking a cigarette. Youknow, I'm not really into this

(06:53):
band that's coming up. Thisain't me.

DB Crema (06:55):
Why? Cuz you just like not into, like, let's use
tribalism as a...

Turk (07:00):
I mean, naw. Not even at Lilith Fair. People had their
bands, you know, I'm saying, youknow, even the tribe you could
have, which, you know, what partof the tribe you want to see or
hang out with. And that'sprobably a defense mechanism.

DB Crema (07:13):
Do you ever feel like you , talking about a defense
You know,mechanism, you ever feel like
you have worked through thestuff you blocked out as a kid?

Turk (07:22):
I don't know, I think. So if I take stuff from recent say,
being inquarantine, you know. Lost my
job earlier in the pandemic, sonot not having to go out not
having to go into quote,unquote, whitespaces - corporate
offices. So as you're out ofthat, you don't have to deal

(07:43):
with that all the time. Youdon't have to deal with whatever
you have to deal with, when youdeal with people who are
different, no matter if it'srace or whatnot. You know, so
being in isolation of beingquarantine with people that you
love, and people that know you,when when I see stuff like this
is very easy for me to be like,you know, F those people,
because I'm not having tointeract with them anymore. So

(08:04):
it is a weird dichotomy to be inif this stuff happens, and then
you have to go to work and dealwith people, you know,

DB Crema (08:11):
What's this stuff?

Turk (08:13):
Well, like when racial violence happens. It's hard to
go to work sometimes and dealwith, you know, people who just
may not understand where youare. So you can't be there. You
have to be where you are thatmoment physically, which is at
work, and everyone has to dothis to some regard. So in some
regard, I was so happy. I'm anintrovert. So I hate to say

(08:35):
this, but the pandemic, I'mlike, I'm having the time of my
life.

DB Crema (08:39):
You've been preparing for this all of your life.

Turk (08:41):
I can't stand people. This is awesome. Man. You know, you
do have to deal with people. ButI was so happy, I didn't have to
deal with certain people, youknow. You know, to explain how
I'm feeling or just I don'tknow, sometimes you just don't
want to be in that situation.
You know? And some people havebetter work atmospheres and
others. This is all depends onif you know, and people hate to

(09:02):
hate this word. But is yourworkplace inclusive? Genuinely
inclusive? Yeah, so it's beennice being quarantined, because
I don't have to deal with beingin places that where maybe I
can't fully be myself or beangry or be upset. You know?

DB Crema (09:20):
I mean, being insulated, having some level of
insulation does help to protectyou from the triggers that make
you upset.

Turk (09:27):
Right. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't, I don't know whatlife's gonna be like when I have
to go back outside, you know, Imean, what am I going to set up
for myself? Like, what spaces doI want to be in? So I've been
thinking about that a lot sincethe pandemic started with spaces
where I'm going to spend thesecond half of my life in? You
know, and I don't think it's theones I was in before. And that's

(09:47):
probably a lot of people. Youknow, whether it's about race,
you know, gender identity,sexuality. The capitalist will
does not work for most of us. SoJust that whole space that's
largely based on whiteness andpatriarchy, it doesn't work for
a lot of people. So what spacedo I want to be in? What do I

(10:07):
want the second part of my life,what do I want that energy to be
in? What do I want to worryabout? You know?

DB Crema (10:14):
And what does that, what does that look like to you?
What are you thinking about?
What are safe spaces and whereyou feel like you belong?

Turk (10:20):
You know, as much as I just sat here and say that, you
know, I can't stand people,which is true. I think I'm
adaptable to a lot of spaces,you know, switching - code
switching, of course, but I wantto help people that need help.
And that's people who are on themargins, people who are
marginalized. Now, a lot oftime, that's gonna be people
that look like me. But it may bepeople who look like me who are

(10:44):
also trans. You know, I thinkbecause of the work I do, like
with recruitment, because I'm arecruiter, I know that most
workspaces aren't inclusive. Soit's a bottom up thought to me.
So if I can get a person into ajob to where they can, you know,
feel good about themselves, goback home, be part of the
community and just live theirday to day life. You know,

(11:06):
that's what I'm trying to do.
But I'm trying to do thatworking with people who maybe
feel like they don't belong orwho haven't gotten a shot. So
and that goes to a lot of stuff,ageism, the color of your skin.
I mean, there's so muchdiscrimination in hiring, that I
think just making sure peoplewho aren't represented or feel
included are included, becausethen if you make a place good

(11:27):
enough to work for, say, someonewho's at the bottom, them it's
gonna be a great place to workfor a person at the top, because
a person at the top is not goingto have a bad work experience.
And the person at the bottom ischillin.

DB Crema (11:38):
Right, right. And then to your point, it also extends
into other aspects of the life,If you're having a good
environment at work, having agood experience at work, you're
going home, feeling more secure,less frustrated, less
marginalized. You know, throughthat one act of of creating,
helping to create an inclusivehiring and inclusive workspaces.
That's huge.

Turk (11:58):
Yeah, I think for me, helping people get to where they
need to be in their life,through employment. Most people
have to work, most people don'twant to, but if you're going to
spend that time at work, youshould be respected. You should
not go home, feeling horrible.
And a lot of people go homefeeling horrible.

DB Crema (12:16):
So tell me about, you know, inclusive workspaces. What
does that look like? How do we,what do we need to get there?

Turk (12:24):
Like, I'm trying to figure out when you set up a staff, how
do you set up for a sustainable,inclusive and equitable culture?
Do you start at the bottom tier?
Do you start in the middle? Doyou start, you know, on the top,
like, the leaders that youchoose? You know, what spot? Do
you put them in? Do you put themin the middle? So they can serve
as a representation, a diverserepresentation for the people

(12:46):
that work under them? And thenthey can speak to people who are
the upper level? And eventually,hopefully, hopefully, those
people move up in a corporation.
Or do you start from the top,down? You know, like, what's the
most important spot in acompany, to where people can get
in, and feel like this is aspace for them, and then

(13:09):
prosper, where they move up ormove on in their career. Great
managers is huge. But you know,starting at the top always,
always helps. It always helps toknow that people are in the big
offices don't all look the same,don't also have the same
background, don't come from thesame class and go to the same,
you know, B school. That kind ofthing. Yeah, so that's something

(13:31):
I'm trying to think about. Wheredo you start when you start up a
company? So when someone goes tointerview, or someone's their
first day, they're like, Youknow what? I think, you know, I
like it here and I really thinkI could be myself here and
everyone seems respectful. And,and that's the culture of
respect. We may not all getalong, but I see my manager
don't take no slack when itcomes to respect.

DB Crema (13:52):
Right. You know, it's like going in interviewing in a
space you say, I can see myselfhere.

Turk (13:58):
Yes. Because right now, the only places I can think that
I felt like I could bring all ofmyself were nonprofit places. So
Human Services.

DB Crema (14:10):
Hmm.

Turk (14:11):
I'm really trying to think of a corporation that I work
for. But in terms of dressingthe way I want to dress, I mean,
when I was working in thenonprofit world, we had to dress
up because we had, you know,clients, we were trying to teach
the importance of dressing forsuccess. So I, you know, and I
prefer to wear male clothing, soI could do that there. Um, I

(14:32):
could wear ties, like wear bowties. Um, you know, my gender
expression, I've never reallyfaltered with. But the next
interview I had at acorporation, I wore a suit to my
interview. So that isinteresting how having one job
where you can - where you know,what it feels like to bring your
full self, it kind of, you kindof have that hyper vigilance

(14:54):
when you go to the next job andwhen it's not, right, you know?

DB Crema (14:57):
And it's not necessarily that everyone has to
look exactly like me or therehas to be someone else that
looks like me, but that you cansee your full self being able to
be comfortable in that space.

Turk (15:08):
Right. And that yeah, that's I guess that's different
for a lot of people. That'sprobably why it's so hard to do
this work. You know, you coulddo the diversity part, but the
inclusion and equity and youknow, equity, I think that's
where people fall short. A lotof companies waste all this time
trying to figure it out. AndI've always noticed, I'm like,
you know, you're more concernedwith looking like you're
inclusive, you know, you'regoing to spend more energy,

(15:31):
trying to look like, hey, wecool over here. But you're not
really. But that's, that's theway I feel about it. The default
is to see all the white dudes.
Even me when I look atcompanies, I'm interested in,
I'm like naw, I ain't workinghere. But then when I go to a
company, I'm like, Oh, okay.
Okay. You know, you scroll youlike, Okay, I see you, Judy

(15:53):
Chan. Okay, girl. Let me seewhat this company is about.
Okay. You know, and the woman,the only woman is not like, the
VP of communications or HR. Iwant to see a VP of
manufacturing.

DB Crema (16:06):
Mm hmm.

Turk (16:07):
Okay. Okay, Mary, I see you. Okay. That's what I like.
And that's what makes me I'mlike, and it starts there. Is
this place inclusive? Do I seemyself there? It starts with the
candidate interactionexperience. You know, like, know
where your company is at? Youknow?

DB Crema (16:23):
I mean, I bet with your experience, you can tell
when it's just performative.
Like when it's just a storylineabout wanting to bring in more
black people and people of colorto change the face of the
company.

Turk (16:35):
Right. A quick review of your people in charge, I can see
that's not true.

DB Crema (16:42):
Yeah, and given the issues with race in this
country, it feels really hard tomake workplaces truly inclusive,
where race is concerned.

Turk (16:49):
Yeah. We all know this country, it has a race relations
issue. It has a problem withrace, it has a problem with,
with where race stands, and itsfoundations. And what black
people mean to this country. Itwears you down, man, it wears
you down. Like when people say,Oh, you know, certain people,

(17:10):
they always talking about whathappened and they just, they
just make racism sound so bad,you know, or they just, they
complain too much about it orwhat not. I'm like, I don't
think you get like, half of whatcertain people experience, you
know.

DB Crema (17:23):
Yeah. And to your point, there's often this
message of just get over it. Youdon't just erase that.

Turk (17:31):
No, no, I mean, that's how I mean. It's how the way things
make you feel and yourinteractions with them, is how
you learn. So to tell someone toget over it, it just seems kind
of it's not, it's not somethingthat's in your head, it's in
your body. You know, you can'tyou can't tell people to get

(17:52):
over stuff that, something thathappens to them that is about
their actual being. You know.
And I think it's very rude to dothat. I think maybe having to
deal with the past is one of thereasons why, you know, this
country can't give credence tothe pain of black Americans, or
Native Americans, you know?

DB Crema (18:17):
Mm hmm. It's just, yeah, yeah. There's only so much
trauma, a body and a person cantake.

Turk (18:24):
Right. And yeah, I just think I'm at the place where,
yeah, I'm just not into thisband right now. I think we're
gonna go outside in the parkinglot. Smoke a doobie. But we'll
be back, man. You know, we'll beback for the funk band that
comes on in two hours.

DB Crema (18:41):
Like, America needs an intermission.

Turk (18:43):
Yes. And that's just the way I have to look at is like,
you know, it's like we - it'show much can the people scream
that this is occurring in ourcountry? And then it hits like
a, like a wave and people like,oh, man, I didn't pack a bathing
suit. I didn't know, didn'tnobody tell me was having no

(19:04):
waves coming up in here. Oh,man. I'm wearing corduroy, this
is horrible. I can't feel sorryfor those people. I'm just like,
child, you knew it was a beachday. And I was like, I just and
I just, if I think about howthose people are thinking, then
it upsets me. You know, thepeople that say this is not my

(19:25):
country. I want to be like,ma'am, Are you new here? Did you
just get off the Greyhound? Thisis not my country. Girl, you
must have been quarantining forthe past 25 years then. Because
it's exactly who she is. Yep, nomakeup. None. No filters. Here
she is. The last season ofAmerica, no filter. Ain't she a

(19:52):
mess, though? She's such a mess.
And she wants somebody to helpher. She wants somebody to do an
intervention with her. She wantssomebody to help her. But ain't
nobody trying to directly helpher. Po' Ame. You in danger
girl. Po' Ame.

DB Crema (20:27):
Thanks for listening to United States of Race. This
podcast was produced by me, Yourhost, DB Crema, And our artwork
is designed by Aly Creative. Ifyou love great storytelling, go
ahead and subscribe to UnitedStates of Race on Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, or wherever you getyour podcasts. And show us some

(20:48):
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(21:09):
sharing personal stories. Youcan also follow us on Instagram
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(21:31):
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