March 5, 2021 • 58 mins
The urgency of climate change means it is not sufficient for environmental scholarship to describe our complex relationship to the natural world. It must also compel a response. TIMESCALES: THINKING ACROSS ECOLOGICAL TEMPORALITIES gathers scholars from different fields, placing traditional academic essays alongside experimental sections, to promote innovation and collaboration. This episode asks: Why art? Why art … at all? With climate change and environmental catastrophe looming large, what purpose does art serve in pressing conversations about environmental futures?
Three TIMESCALES contributors are here to answer that question:
-Patricia Eunji Kim, assistant professor/faculty fellow at the Gallatin School of Individualized Studies and a provost’s postdoctoral fellow at New York University. She serves as an assistant curator at Monument Lab, a public art and history studio. Kim researches and teaches Greco-Roman art and archaeology, with a focus on issues of gender, cultural identity, and empire. Her in-progress monograph examines the art and archaeology of royal women from the Hellenistic world (4th–1st century BCE).
-Kate Farquhar is a Philadelphia-based landscape designer at Olin and has worked at the intersection of ecology, infrastructure, and art for fifteen years. Her TIMESCALES chapter focuses on WetLand, an experimental floating lab created from a 45-foot-long salvaged houseboat in 2014 by artist Mary Mattingly. From 2015 to 2016, Farquhar served as program coordinator for events that accompanied its residency with the Penn Program in Environmental Humanities (PPEH) on the Lower Schuylkill River.
-Dr. Marcia Ferguson, a professional actor, director, and educator, has worked as a theatre artist in Philadelphia regional theatre and arts organizations including the Wilma Theatre, Painted Bride Art Center, Act II Playhouse, Irish Heritage, Paper Dolls, the Mediums, Juniper productions, the Daedalus String Quartet, and the Penn Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. She has collaborated on seven original productions for Edinburgh and Philadelphia Fringe festivals, and has done theatre and film work in Los Angeles, New York, Rome, and Tokyo. She is senior lecturer in theatre arts at the University of Pennsylvania and has published two books and several articles on theatre. Her TIMESCALES chapter focuses on Pig Iron’s work in progress “A Period of Animate Existence,” the subject of a discussion Ferguson moderated at the 2016 PPEH conference. Director Dan Rothenberg, composer Troy Herion, and set designer Mimi Lien were the 2016-17 artists in residence at PPEH.
This conversation was recorded in November 2020. This is the third and final podcast episode in a series that has featured the book’s three coeditors: Kim; Bethany Wiggin, director of the Penn Program in Environmental Humanities; and Carolyn Fornoff, assistant professor of Latin American culture at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
REFERENCES:
Timescales: z.umn.edu/timescales
WetLand: https://ppeh.sas.upenn.edu/experiments/wetland
A Period of Animate Existence: https://www.pigiron.org/productions/period-animate-existence
MORE TIMESCALES PODCAST EPISODES:
-Ep. 14: Time and the interplay between human history and planetary history. With Carolyn Fornoff, Jen Telesca, Wai Chee Dimock, and Charles Tung: https://soundcloud.com/user-760891605/episode-14
-Ep. 12: Scientists and humanists talk timescales and climate change. With Bethany Wiggin, Frankie Pavia, Jason Bell, and Jane Dmochowski: https://soundcloud.com/user-760891605/episode-12
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Patricia Kim (00:11):
Why visual and performance arts, at all? What's
the point of thinking with artsoriented engagements in these
pressing conversations aroundthe environment and ecology?
Marcia Ferguson (00:26):
I think that what both wetland and period of
animate existence gave everyonewas the opportunity to feel what
deep time could be. And we can'treally get there through
language.
Narrator (00:49):
The urgency of climate change means that it is not
sufficient for environmentalscholarship to describe our
complex relationship to thenatural world. It must also
compel a response. TimescalesThinking Across Ecological
Temporalities gathers scholarsfrom different fields, placing
traditional academic essaysalongside experimental sections
(01:11):
to promote innovation andcollaboration. This is the third
and final podcast episode in aseries that has featured the
book's three editors (01:18):
Bethany Wigan, director of the PEN
program in environmentalhumanities Carolyn Fornoff,
assistant professor of LatinAmerican culture at the
University of Illinois at UrbanaChampaign and now Patricia Kim,
art historian and assistantprofessor faculty fellow at the
Gallatin School ofIndividualized Study at New York
(01:40):
University. Patricia is joinedin conversation by landscape
designer Kate Farquhar and byMarcia Ferguson, senior lecturer
in theater arts at theUniversity of Pennsylvania.
This conversation was recordedin November 2020.
Patricia Kim (01:56):
Hi. My name is Patricia Kim. I'm one of the co
editors of the forthcomingvolume timescales. I'm an art
historian, a curator, andeducator based in New York City.
Currently, I am assistantprofessor faculty fellow at
NYU's Gallatin School ofIndividualized Study and the
associate director of publicprograms at Monument Lab.
Marcia Ferguson (02:20):
Great. Are we introducing ourselves?
Patricia Kim (02:22):
I think so. I think that's what's happening.
Yeah.
Marcia Ferguson (02:25):
Okay. I'll jump in. I'm Marsha Ferguson. I am a
senior lecturer, at the theaterarts program at the University
of Pennsylvania. I'm on theboard of the Penn program for
the environmental humanitiesand, have been an interested
onlooker as that program hasgrown.
Kate Farquhar (02:46):
I'm Kate Farquhar. I'm a landscape
architect based in Philadelphia,and, I've been working at the
intersection of ecology,infrastructure, and art for
fifteen years. I became part ofthe project that produced this
book in a coordination role,helping to bring the public into
(03:08):
contact with an artwork calledWetland, which is a floating
boat and experiment lab on theLower Schuylkill. And we'll talk
a little bit more about thatsoon, but I would just describe
myself as a friend of the Pennprogram in environmental
humanities and an enthusiasticcheerleader for environmental
humanities in general.
Patricia Kim (03:30):
So Kate and Marsha, it's I'm really excited
to talk with you, and I waswondering, well, I've read your
pieces as one of the co editorsof Timescales, but I was
wondering if you could describeyour pieces and contributions to
the book, perhaps sort ofdescribe for our listener, what
(03:51):
which artwork or what pieces,you talked about in your essay?
Marcia Ferguson (03:58):
Sure. I I spoke to an artwork that was, at the
time, a work in progressperformance of Pig Iron Theatre
Company's, 2017 work, Period ofAnimate Existence, which was a
five act work, and it was,enormous in its scale. The the
(04:20):
exercise of the small work inprogress that we saw at the
conference really delighted meand the the conference
participants. And so my piecewas really in some ways an
appreciation for the way theatercan encapsulate the large and
(04:40):
the small. I think I'm quotingDan Rothenberg, the director,
when I say one of the thingsthat he was attempting was to
somehow convey things that aretoo big to get your head around.
And, by using a cast of, Ithink, is 87 people, tribe of
elders, tribe of children, veryoriginal, approaches to these
(05:04):
notions, They contributed thisthis provocation, and my piece
was a description of of that,small work in progress. It was
also a description of the largerwork as I saw it a year later at
the Philadelphia Fringe Festivalin 2017 in its, its realized
(05:24):
state and and also an argumentabout theater's place in the
environmental humanities itself.
Kate Farquhar (05:33):
Thank you, Marsha. I was so fortunate to be
able to see the work inprogress, and I really look
forward to discussing it more.And I know you remember the work
that I'm going to describebriefly, which is a very
compelling small boat calledwetland, which we understood as
an experimental floating lab, aplace for art, studying, and
(05:58):
conversing. It was a work thatwas kind of collaged over a 45
foot long salvaged houseboat.Artist Mary Mattingly and
several collaborators added amakeshift loft bedroom with beds
in it to sleep in and otheramenities to kind of round out
(06:19):
the day, including a compostingtoilet and a solar array and a
rain gathering cistern.
Wetland also included otherfloating craft alongside it,
such as gardens, that at timessupported vegetables. During its
residency as part of the PENprogram in environmental
(06:42):
humanities, It and its time onthe Lower Schuylkill River in
Philadelphia, it, added smallcraft to its neighboring gardens
as artists created new works tojoin that whole assemblage. In
time before its residencyconcluded, it ended up sinking.
(07:04):
So among the things we're goingto discuss, I think,
temporality, but also the ideaof works being temporary, I
think, is something, that reallyinterests me about art, the the
role of art in an experimentalproject, and the impressions
that it can leave you with andthen the possibility that imbues
(07:28):
those impressions, and I lookforward to discussing it
further.
Patricia Kim (07:32):
Well, I'm really excited. And so I think to sort
of kick off this conversation, Iwanna ask both Kate and Marsha
why visual and poor performancearts, at all? What's the point
of thinking along arts orientedengagements or with arts
oriented engagements in thesepressing conversations around
(07:53):
the environment and ecology?
Marcia Ferguson (07:57):
I'll jump into that because I love this
question. It actually is thequestion that prompted the piece
that I ultimately contributed tothe volume because it seems to
me that as the environmentalhumanities is developing itself
as a discourse and a field ofstudy, there's a lot of
(08:19):
discussion about, territory andand overlaps and, the
interdisciplinarity of theendeavor itself, which, of
course, is one of the thingsthat I find most exciting about
the program and also thisvolume, the the inherent
interdisciplinarity of it. And,but I I really do argue for
theater specifically, which ismy medium, as a site for
(08:44):
specific experimentations withtime, which, of course, is the
heart of time scales. The wholeidea of an Anthropocene, which
proposes an idea about time thatacknowledges both the limits of
human perceptions about timeeven as it points to the limits
of human time on the planet, sowhich to me is very
(09:07):
interestingly and importantlymind bending. It all it totally
chimes with my sense of theephemeral nature of performance,
which exists only right thisminute, right, and real good old
fashioned live theater withpeople that are breathing in the
same space, making us aware of aradical present, in other words.
(09:28):
And yet that combines with itsability to conjure any possible
imaginable relation of time andspace. So theater's always been
a place for imagining endlesstime, and endless space. So,
from fifth century Athens, wherethere's this verticality of the
(09:50):
cosmos, the gods above, andhuman beings below working out
complex relationships of destinyand fate and on and on. It seems
to me that that, theater isspecifically a place for these
kinds of of specificexperimentations around time.
And, of course, the piece that Iwrote about, which was something
(10:11):
that occurred at the the theconference that I was there to
help document and and moderatethe period, period of imminent
existence, pig iron theaterproduction is all about this
capability and thisexperimentation.
And it was itself one of thoseexperiments. So I hope that that
(10:32):
goes a little way towards what,to me, was so, energizing about
about the conference and andreally about the volume itself.
Patricia Kim (10:42):
Yeah. And what I'm hearing from you, Marsha, is
that for you, this theater artsand performing arts more broadly
allows us to sort of think aboutand experiment with how to
conceptualize the Anthropocene.Right? It sort of provides this
kind of perfect metaphor in someways for the different
temporalities that we mightexplore when we're thinking
(11:03):
ecologically. But I wonder, ifyou or Kate, maybe you wanna
jump in.
If you can maybe talk more aboutsort of art and theater's
relationship with theenvironment more broadly. That
is to say why art when we have,sort of physics or biology, you
(11:24):
know, practices and policy andremediation, even sort of
environmental activism, right?We have all these different
modes of engagement and inquiry,and yet the arts sort of seem to
offer something else, somethingdifferent. Kate, what do you
think about that?
Kate Farquhar (11:44):
It's such a great question. And, Marsha, I love
your chapter about period ofanimate existence and its place
in this project and the role oftheater generally. There's so
much to unpack there. In,reviewing our chapters and other
portions of the book, I was justthinking about how grateful I
(12:04):
was that that arts were centralto the beginning of this
project. And I see a number ofways that that arts play a role,
you know, at the beginning of anexperimental project like this,
and I think, keep thepossibilities for it open and
energized.
I see how when people engagewith the arts, they expect on
(12:29):
some level to have a sensoryexperience and to feel engaged
emotionally. And I think thathelps us when we're coming
together to span disciplines,particularly when the subjects
that we're gathering aroundcontain moral imperatives at
their core, or perhaps werebrought together through our own
(12:50):
separate moral imperatives andwe're not sure how to act or how
to proceed. I think that artsplay a role partly because
sensory experience sharedsensory experience and,
emotional engagement need to bea ground for, morally imperative
collaboration. And I also thinkthere may be examples that would
(13:14):
challenge my thought here, but Ithink the arts don't pose so
great a risk to us personally.They're ways to experiment
safely together and that therewards can really outpace the
risks, particularly in the arts.
For example, one of my favoritestories about wetland is how
(13:36):
over the course of its,residency off the banks of
Bartram's Garden, DanielleRedden had, you know, scores of
conversations with passersby.Danielle Redden is someone who
runs a public program in thatarea, a free boating program
that's very popular. And shesaid that people would come up
(13:57):
to her and ask about the boat,what is it. She would answer
that it's, you know, anexperimental lab, art project,
gathering space. And then peoplewould ask, does anyone live on
the boat?
And she would say, no. No onelives on the boat. And then very
frequently, they would say, canI live on the boat? And that's
the kind of speculation that Ithink where I think arts play a
(14:17):
really important role inbringing us together around
imagination and speculativepossibilities.
Patricia Kim (14:26):
I really love that, Kate. What you're saying
is that these sensoryexperiences sort of allow for
affective attachments, right, tobuild gaps, or to bridge gaps
rather, not to build them, butto bridge gaps and to sort of
draw these concepts that mightbe difficult to visualize or
really understand into the realmof comprehension as a way to
(14:50):
sort of spark a sense of urgencyaround these ecological issues.
Marcia, do you wanna addanything to that?
Marcia Ferguson (14:59):
Yes. I would. I I I have such fond memories of
wetland. And, Kate, I love yourpiece. I think your notion of
wetland as floating culture, wassomething that that just rang so
true to me because I I toointeracted with wetland as a
tourist, so to speak, at first,and I had that same experience.
(15:22):
I wanted to live on that boat.There was something about its
design and its proposals. It'snot quite a boat. It's, an
environment with a chicken coopand a rain barrel, and it it
really did conjure, Noah and allkinds of, like, totems of of
(15:43):
human cultures. But beyond that,it it becomes a metaphor or an
emblem for this human impulsethat I I hope what I'm saying
chimes with you, Kate, to to do.
And I think maybe, Patricia,that the sciences that are
(16:03):
grappling on chemical and,policy levels and different
kinds of, sort of hard factuallevels with climate change is a
realm that is a is a kind ofdoing. But as far as the human
body and all of us sharing thisterritory on this planet and the
(16:24):
thingness of being alive, it'ssomething that we all need to
remember is that's who we are.It's it's it's how we move
forward as a culture. So the themind, the the intellect, the
body, the emotional landscape,places like wetland, things like
(16:45):
live performance. They arespaces where we can experiment
and create metaphors for theintersection of these layers of
human understanding andendeavor.
And I'm just gonna if if I canhave the the nerve to quote your
piece, Kate, that I I love thissentence so much. And speaking
of doing, you say communicationwas carried by its setting and
(17:08):
shaped by circles of busy handsinfused by sensations of
bobbing, eavesdropping, molding,sipping, bracing, balancing,
basking, and shivering. Theviscera got involved. I mean,
for me, I that just makes me sohappy, that that approach to to
(17:29):
science. Right?
It's it's a place where ourhuman bodies are doing the
things that they need to do asas a kind of understanding and a
kind of communication that ourintellect, our our knowledge
base needs you know, we we alsoneed to breathe and swallow and
(17:49):
and do all of these thesethings, these gerunds. Perhaps
that's not a very articulateresponse, but I I'm I got so
excited when I read because it'sso frankly, it's so
performative, this notion ofwhat happens when you visit
wetland. And it happened for me,so it it it really rang true. I
think that's an important partof of thinking through all of
(18:11):
our problems. We have toremember we're human beings.
Patricia Kim (18:14):
So that's a perfect segue for my next
question for both of you, whichis, sort of around the
construction, aesthetics,articulations, and maintenance
of both period of animateexistence, this theater piece,
and of wetland, this sort ofsculptural kind of living, boat,
(18:36):
right, as allegories for broaderquestions around the
Anthropocene. And Kate, yourpiece in particular really
describe the ways in which thethe upkeep of wetland, right, as
well as its sinking, this sortthis sort of kind of poetic end
to its life kind of did that.And so I'm wondering if you
(18:57):
could elaborate there.
Kate Farquhar (18:59):
I'd love to. It's something that I still think
about. For me, the work itselfis very central to my memories
about kind of being theretowards the beginning of the PEM
program in environmentalhumanities and being there for
the time scales conference. Andon the other hand, my memories
(19:21):
of the relationships that Ibegan are as central. At the
time, I was in the process oflearning about Wepland, and I
was in the process of meeting alot of people.
I I met you, Patricia, and theother editors, and I was meeting
artists who participated in oneof our programs associated with
(19:43):
wetlands, which was the ecoEcotopian Toolkit Competition,
and I met members of the public.You know, I was learning about
wetland. I was, working on anexperiment in collaboration with
you and with many other newacquaintances, and I still don't
know how to maintain wetland.It's just hard for me to know
(20:07):
it's hard for me to express, Iguess, what I don't know. And at
the same time, I cherish all ofthe projects that we began.
And more than that, I cherishhaving met you and and the
others that I met, the fact thatwe met each other, and the fact
(20:27):
that we may, you know,collaborate again. And I think
that what is so central to anexperiment like this is the
story of relationships andlearning through relationships
as a legitimate modality forlearning and for expanding
knowledge even as the unexpectedhappens or some things that you
(20:53):
try fail in some way. That'sdefinitely something that I
carry with me. As I concludedthe chapter, my hope was that
because social questions andrelational questions and
questions about the exchange ofknowledge were always central to
(21:13):
the project of wetland. It's mygoal that those questions live
on with their own momentum andintegrity because there are
other artworks that are famousor compelling that have to do
with ruination or the landscape,but were always have always been
quite remote, both physicallyand socially.
(21:33):
And wetland was not, in myexperience, remote. And there
were, many problems andopportunities that it brought
one into contact with.
Patricia Kim (21:46):
What you're saying, reminds me a lot of
Donna Haraway's sort of makingkin in the Anthropocene and that
in order to survive sort of thiskind of sixth distinction as it
were, that these connections andrelationships that you're
describing, Kate, that went intothe maintenance and sort of the
upkeep of wetland are criticalat this juncture. Marsha, I'm
(22:09):
wondering, if the sort ofquestion of kinship came up for
you as you were sort ofexamining and exploring, period
of animate existence.
Marcia Ferguson (22:21):
Absolutely. It seemed to me kinship was key on
on a number of levels for thatpiece. Kinship both on the level
of what was inside theperformance, but also kinship
between the spectators and, theperformers. It seemed to me that
there was the aesthetics of thepiece invited, in a strange way,
(22:47):
almost a family stylerelationship to an old time
story around the campfire aboutour extinction in in some ways,
and and which is which is whatmarks the performance for me as
something really, reallystrange, and unique and
completely memorable. I left theperformance with this very it's
(23:12):
actually a feeling that I can'tdescribe.
I think it's pretty much beyondwords, and I'm someone who has
made a living talking a lotabout theater. But but but so so
you remember the times that youreally can't quite find the
right words to express whathappened. But I can also talk
about kinship on the level ofthe aesthetics of the piece.
(23:36):
Period of animate existenceaesthetics were at once casual
and cosmic, and a great theme ofthe piece was human time,
obviously. And the way we countit, the way we can, document it.
And in this performance iscounted in different ways, but,
(23:58):
one of the most important andgrounding ways it's counted is
through rituals of kinship, ofeveryday caring for yourself,
for others, specificallyrelationships between
generations. And for me, again,this was a hallmark of what made
(24:20):
it so special and unique becausehow many times have you seen
bands and tribes of older peopleoccupying a stage? It's not our
youth centric culture's interestto really document the lives of
elders. Then to bring intoconversation with that tribe
(24:44):
another tribe of children. And,sort of middle aged adult people
were, at least in in severalepisodes of this performance,
they were refreshingly absent.
And what happened when you havetribes of elders and tribes of
children performing thisdelicate choreography of
(25:04):
everyday care, but also agrander scale choreography of
literally interweaving oneanother on stage, you get this
very poetic sense of lifetimesand the limited reach, the
limitations of the reach of ahuman life, and how inadequate
it seems in some ways when rightup against another section of
(25:30):
the piece, which is all aboutthe counting of cosmic time,
other geological eras in whichhumanity is a memory, or on the
other hand is a future promisethat human life is just a kind
of life. And so period of animexistence provided contexts for
(25:51):
all kinds of discussions, thatwere subsequently pursued at the
conference, but that are alsopursued in the volume, even if
people writing about all thesedifferent, wonderful subjects
are not specifically respondingto that performance. To me, it
has such, a metaphoricalsignificance for all of them
(26:14):
because the environmentalhumanities itself was born of a
desire to sustain inquiry acrossdisciplines in the same way
period of animate existence doesthat by sustaining inquiry
across, children and adults andlifetimes and human beings.
So kinship rituals, kinshipperformances, if you will, are
(26:38):
the sort of the key that unlocksall the the layers of feeling to
me that go on in period of endof existence, individual and
cosmic.
Patricia Kim (26:50):
You know, I wanna go back to something that Marsha
said regarding sort of thelimitations of human time, sort
of contrasting with cosmic orgeological time, and kind of
juxtaposed next to future futuretime, and sort of the
uncertainty of the kind ofdistance or the distant future
(27:10):
that is. And this is somethingthat the editors and I were
really hoping to to throw intorelief. That is the
incommensurability of differenttime scales that we find within
these ecological discussions, aswell as ecological movements and
forces. And so I think it's sortof a perfect segue into the next
(27:35):
topic around temporality itself,right, which is sort of the
subject of this book as well asof the two different pieces,
that you both wrote about. I'dlike to first sort of think
together about ephemerality, andwe'll get to the kind of other,
you know, geological time, humantime, but there's something so
(27:59):
striking about sort of thetemporariness.
I think that's Tate, you pointedthis out. Right? That things
don't actually last. And so Iwas wondering, Kate and Marcia,
if you could perhaps comment onephemerality and impermanence,
and how that plays out both inyour pieces, and what you think
the stakes are for these broaderpressing questions around the
(28:22):
environment.
Kate Farquhar (28:24):
I think that ephemerality in human projects
is way underrated. One of thethings I really value is the
opportunity to question thework, you know, the work that I
usually do as a non academic,working in landscape
architecture, and beingalongside other people
questioning the work that theydo and then, kind of questioning
(28:45):
the definition of work. I Iguess one of the other things I
was thinking about is, how manythings happened around that time
and then how there was sir acertain wisdom in the direction
that they were going and theenergy behind them that started
to prepare me and give me thelanguage that I needed to start
(29:09):
confronting new realities. Hardtimes is one other way to say
it.
Patricia Kim (29:15):
Okay. I I think that you pulled out a lot of
different kinds oftemporalities. Right? Iteration,
repetition, cyclical time,simultaneity, hard times.
Marsha, what about you?
Same question about a fumaralityand temporariness or
impermanence.
Marcia Ferguson (29:31):
I'm so used to thinking about this in terms of
plays and performance, and it'sso good for me to get shaken out
of, my orientation, about theendurance of the length of a
play and how how long anaudience's attention can be can
(29:52):
be kept on a certain theme or,you know, the interplay between
entertainment, emotion, andvirtuosity. These are all
questions that I'm used todelving into, with other people
in terms of creating a work ofart. And I'm guessing, Kate, it
it comes up for you in, in yourwork as well. But but it's the
(30:16):
whole point is that it'sephemeral. I can't imagine doing
this kind of labor for somethingthat's going to last forever.
It would be a different kind oflabor, I think. We would just
simply and when I say we, I'mthinking about fellow artists,
because, of course, theaters isinnately collaborative. So
you're always like Kate wassaying, the relationships that
(30:40):
you make when you're creatingart, are half the point. At
least they are for me. Youcreate these intense
communities, which arethemselves ephemeral.
When you're talking about a aproduction, you are completely
eating, drinking, breathing,thinking with this group of
(31:01):
collaborators for six, eight,ten weeks, and then it's over.
Then you move on. You rememberthem fondly, at least I usually
do, or or you have good storiesat any rate. So both on the
level of lifetime performanceitself and and on a slightly
larger level of what it means interms of an artist's lifetime
(31:24):
and the collaborativecommunities and their lifespan,
which is limited. Ephemeralityis kind of the point because
without that ephemerality, Ithink things would get stale and
the quality of the imagination,it wouldn't be as fresh.
You wouldn't have new things toto bring into it because you've
(31:47):
just been doing the same thingover and over again and working
with the same people over andover again. So on that level, I
think art and these kinds ofcollaborative artworks, and even
the kind of artwork that thatwetland was and is because we're
still talking about it and it'sbeen documented so well. Lodged
(32:08):
within it is, of course, yes,the it's ephemeral nature, but
there's something that you cansay about the nature of ephemera
that brings out the best in usperhaps, that brings out the
freshest thinking andcollaborative impulses. And, I
(32:29):
mean, one of the things to sayabout this volume that I find so
exciting is the very fact thatsome of these essays are, you
know, bringing together chemistsand composers, or what have you.
And the the freshness of thewriting in those instances, the
chitchats.
Right? That's a word that's usedin the volume that I really
(32:50):
appreciate. The very idea, it'salmost like neighbors leaning
over the fence for aconversation about their
territories and terrains andfinding common ground. This is
new, and it's and it's probablyephemeral. You know, time scales
two, volume two, will be a verydifferent animal if it exists.
(33:11):
And so I I guess I'm arguing fora a value, a real I put a real
value on the very limitation oftime and if immorality.
Patricia Kim (33:21):
No. I I love that, Marsha. Sort of kind of it it
really is a value change though.Right? Because we're so I feel
as a culture, even in arthistory, so much of it is about
archiving and conserving andpreserving for the present and
for the future and kind of in inmy case, for ancient art history
and archaeology, it's sort ofthis obsession over preserving
(33:44):
something as it was at aparticular historic moment of
its birth, right, or itscreation.
And, it doesn't allow for thingsto change, and it doesn't allow
for things to sink, and and betemporary. And so I think, I
think we have a lot to learnfrom theater, actually. I do
too. I agree.
Marcia Ferguson (34:06):
Myself included. I I learn from it all
the time.
Patricia Kim (34:09):
So I mean, maybe this is I had another question
about, about time in particular,and I and I wanted to talk a
little bit about deep time.Right? Whether it's deep in the
past or deep into the future.Kind of this sense of monumental
scale, a scale that's kind of solarge and vague and abstract
(34:31):
that it's hard for us to reallyvisualize and represent with the
tools that we have. And I thinkthat on some level, both of your
pieces start to grapple withthat sort of deep and abstract
sense of temporality and time.
So I was wondering, maybe ifeither Kate or Marsha, both of
you, I'd love to hear what yourthoughts are, and and what
(34:55):
you've learned regarding sort ofdeep, sort of chunks of time, in
your explorations of these twoworks.
Kate Farquhar (35:04):
I think I'll jump in. I'm not sure what to say
exactly about deep time inrelationship to wetland except
to say that when I scaled outand because I'm a landscape
architect, I am accustomed toscaling out spatially, to
capture the like, a regionallandscape and larger regional
(35:29):
conditions and features and, tosome extent, geology insofar as
it impacts the the builtlandscape or the experiential
landscape, usually. The thingabout wetland was that it was
situated in its immediatesurroundings by a historic
colonial garden that has hadmany lives through the
(35:51):
generations and is a very vitalplace presently. And then right
immediately outside of its kindof garden environment, it was
close to the largest refinerylandscape that was still
operating on the East Coast. Andthen since its residency and
since we worked on the book, therefinery exploded and was
(36:14):
finally closed because I believethere were just financial
obstacles to running continuingto run and ensure activity there
that was so unstable andharmful.
So that is striking because ofits enormous spatial presence
(36:35):
and its the way that resourcesare defined, I suppose, on that
landscape that's completelyseparate from the city, but
affected asthma rates forgenerations. I wanted to explore
Philadelphia's ongoingchallenges with stormwater and
waste disposal. So the ways thatwetland was working on questions
(37:00):
that were pursued during theindustrial revolution when
Philadelphia developed, like,the first public wastewater
management system in thecountry, and now that system is
old and under capacity andcontinues to have problems.
There are ways in which I thinkwetland helped me consider how a
(37:21):
lot of the aging infrastructurewhere I live is still settler
colonial and bears out theproblems that were kind of baked
into the installation of settlercolonial infrastructure.
Marcia Ferguson (37:36):
I I resonate with this living in a city
that's got this colonialinheritance as a part of our
everyday life. I I completelyresonate with what you're
saying, Kate, and having been onwetland and and reading your
excellent piece about it and itsdemise, it seems to me that it
was a vessel that suggestedtime, deep time, future time,
(37:59):
especially future time, andespecially future ecological
time. As far as what period ofanimate animate existence did in
the world, the very notion ofdeep time, it seemed to me, was
introduced through the firstsequence, which was monumental
cords, projections of the fiveextinctions, and then this very
(38:23):
dramatic emergence of this hugeobject that was only very slowly
revealed by the curtains pullingback. The Zellerbach, where I
saw it, is a thousand seathouse, so very large theater. So
the stage, you can imagine, isaccordingly quite quite large,
and this object filled it, or atleast it seemed appeared to fill
(38:46):
it.
It was mind blowing to watch asthe curtains you just couldn't
believe as the curtains werepulling back that you were gonna
see more of it, that there wasmore to be seen. And of course,
wonderful light design,wonderful music by, Troy Herian.
And it was just this dramaticemerge of a spectacular spinning
(39:06):
black planet in and of itselfwithout language. It was almost
like introducing, like, here'sthe character. Here you go.
Here is the the subject of ourpiece. This is our planet, and
this is deep time. This is whatit looks like. The second
movement pulled really it gaveus a great contrast to that, by
bringing us right down onto thehuman level with, basically a
(39:30):
song and dance, a bunch ofpeople. Right?
So this, I'm talking about avisual image that, and in a way
I'm going to connect it to, towetland in a minute, but, but a
visual image excited in me as aspectator, and I don't think I
was alone in this, a feeling ofwhat deep time must be, and and,
(39:53):
again, beyond language. But itwas this feeling, this
resonance, this, oh, wow. Okay.Too large to get my head around
that, but there it is by thesame token. So very, very
emotional, response to thisnotion of deep time.
And one of the ways that Iinteracted with wetland was at
(40:14):
Bethany's invitation. I broughtmy directing class. I was
teaching, section ofintroduction to directing, and I
brought my directing class ontothe boat along with, Sarah
Standing, who's an eco theaterscholar. And she was there with
my class to experience this thisprovocation, right, this
(40:38):
floating provocation. And mystudents, I had them do
improvisations then and there inthe moment to kind of get at
what it is that they wereprovoked by.
And they produced this reallyfun and entertaining series of
of improvisations, but all ofthem had to do with end times.
(41:05):
None of them were about floatinghappily with, ducks and chickens
and and family, upon the seas.They were all sort of extreme.
This is the the end of the humanrace. We can't breathe anymore.
We can't see anymore, you know,one after another. And when we
(41:25):
talked about it afterwards, theemotion associated with climate
change, the anxiety, the fear,the feeling of overwhelm was
what came to the the surface forall of them as fledgling
directors. And I guess I'mconnecting those two things
because of this sense ofoverwhelm with deep time,
(41:45):
whether it's going forward intowhatever place that we all will
be, you know, strapping chickchicken coops onto surfboards
and trying to exist the thewaters of that are gonna swamp
us any minute or or the theenormity of the black ball
spinning in space on a stage infront of us. I think the
(42:06):
emotional response is is deeplyconnected, and they they both
point towards this notion,Patricia, that you're you're
asking us to comment on of ofdeep time.
Kate Farquhar (42:18):
I find that so moving, and I think I I loved
there's so many things that wereso that stay with me from the
period of existence piece andthat I really appreciate in your
chapter. But the the way thatyou wrote about performers who
were elders and performers whowere children performing
(42:38):
together and how the emotionassociated with watching that
unfold is kind of hard tocapture in writing really stays
with me. Like, I think as you'retalking about the enormity, the
the difficulty of starting aconversation, but then, in some
(42:59):
ways, the importance of havingconversations, like, in a
nurturing environment or in acaring environment is something
that makes me think of thatscene and, like, how I realized
as an audience member that Iyearn to see a whole bunch of
older people and a whole bunchof kids together.
Marcia Ferguson (43:18):
That's great. And if I could just respond to
that quickly, Kate, I I lovethat that you are landing on
this emotion, and I think thatwe're coming back in a circle
to, Patricia, one of yourearliest questions in this
conversation about why art. Youknow, we have a bunch of
scientists working on theseproblems. Why do we need art in
(43:40):
there? And I think that whatboth wetland and period of
animate existence gave everyonewas the opportunity to lift our
head up from our screen or ourpiece of paper or our our
discipline to feel what it isthat everybody's working on, to
(44:05):
feel what deep time could be.
And we can't really get therethrough language. We can really
only get there through thesefeelings that are generated by
these kinds of artworks.
Patricia Kim (44:19):
This conversation is really answering some of the
earlier questions about why art.Right? And obviously, or
evidently from thisconversation, it not only helps
us interpret, but also reallysense and comprehend and also
grieve. Right? The scale ofcatastrophe, in addition to the
(44:39):
scale of geologic time, that isit's it's so hard to kind of
represent, but is usuallyrepresented in numbers and
through graphs, but to be ableto see it, through kind of the
relative, you know, scale orsize of stages, or to kind of
see it with, a boat kind ofagainst the backdrop of an old
(45:04):
oil refinery, I think kind ofhelps illustrate these
complexities, immediately andviscerally.
You know, this brings me to mylast question, right, kind of I
feel like this entireconversation we've talked about
why art, or we made the case forart, right, as an important
actor within these conversationsaround the Anthropocene and
(45:28):
environmental humanities, aswell as ecological studies. And
so I just invite you to, I don'tknow, talk about any other works
of art or media that you'reexcited about, that touch on
similar things or or don't atall, or or if you're working on
anything else at the moment thatyou'd like to share that might
be relevant, to time scales.
Marcia Ferguson (45:50):
I could speak to something that I'm working on
now as a supporter. I'm on theboard of the Unscripted Project,
which is, an initiative begun bytwo Penn students,
undergraduates. They'vegraduated now, but they won the
the first presidentialengagement award that that was
(46:10):
given to a proposal in the arts.And their proposal, which
they're realizing now, was tobring training in improvisation
to, Philadelphia public schoolchildren. And so that's
happening now.
They actually have artists, inschools. They have students over
even over Zoom, learningimprovisation, working with one
(46:33):
another in improvisatorycollaborations, and gaining
these skills. And to me, thisproject is it's so exciting to
be even just like a sort of a Istarted out as a a mentor, their
faculty mentor for theirproject, and now I'm on the
board. So I'm really a acheerleader. But to me, it's so
forward looking and visionarybecause the whole notion is to
(46:55):
gift the generations coming upwith these skills to
collaborate, to imaginetogether, to, experiment, to do
deep listening to one another,to allow our own behaviors and
our own ideas to be consciouslyimpacted and change because of
(47:18):
interaction with the ideas ofothers, which is what
improvisation is.
So I would say that project hasgreat bearing on time scales and
the the experimentation that'sgoing on in this volume because
this very essential trope ofcollaboration and
experimentation, seems to mesort of a a seed or a key skill
(47:39):
that unlocks the potential tosolve our biggest problems.
Kate Farquhar (47:45):
That's really exciting. First two things that
come to mind for me are anexciting new project that has
been organized by a number oflandscape architectural
organizations that include theLandscape Architecture
Foundation, the McCarty Centerbased at Penn, the Center for
Resilient Cities and Landscapes,the American Society of
(48:06):
Landscape Architects, and theCouncil of Educators in
Landscape Architecture. Sorry.I'm reading that because I
didn't wanna get it wrong, butit's it's basically hosted by a
number of organizations, andit's called the Green New Deal
Super Studio. So during thepandemic, there are
organizations and designers whosaw an opportunity for us to get
(48:27):
going and talk with each otherabout the possibilities of a
Green New Deal and that the waythe work is structured is to
urge partnerships that includedesigners and nondesigners, of
all kinds to gather around realproblems and develop, you know,
(48:50):
analysis of those problems andthen ultimately produce policy
recommendations, which I see asa really exciting direction for
design and potentially for art.
I'm also I've become interestedrecently in the trauma informed
movement, I guess is what Iwould call it for lack of a
better word, and how disciplineslike mine, landscape
(49:13):
architecture, might ask thequestion, what is a trauma
informed way to work? And,Patricia, one of the things that
I there's so many things that Ilove about your approach towards
editing this book and also thewriting that you developed in
the introduction. I did see, youknow, the mention of trauma as a
(49:33):
concern in these topics. And inmy view, there are other fields
that are approaching the topicas though the the body and
collaboration and gesture andfeelings of belonging in the
landscape are central concernsto the development of trauma
(49:55):
informed trauma informed theoryand practice. And that's
something that I would encourageothers to explore within their
disciplines and acrosscollaborations.
Patricia Kim (50:06):
Thank you so much, Kate and Marsha for sharing some
more, about the work that you'redoing within and adjacent to,
the environmental humanities,but also in relation to this bug
project that, both of youcontributed to. I guess, are
there any other kind ofquestions or comments, that
(50:29):
either of you may have?Patricia, I
Marcia Ferguson (50:33):
I too like Kate, I I loved the introduction
to this volume, and it seems tome to be doing something quite
new and special. And it'swritten by three of you as I
understand it, and there's somewhat I one of the things I
really love about it is thatthere's a a real, like, a
(50:53):
presence in the room of the ofthe people collaborating across
this introduction. And you youdo speak to the sharing of
labor, the frustrations, and thethe joy of breaking the kind of
new ground that this volumebreaks. So I was wondering if, I
could ask you to just brieflycomment on the creation of of
(51:19):
the volume's introduction andand how the proposals within it,
about work sharing,collaboration, bringing distant,
methodologies and, disciplinestogether, how that might have
translated into the work ofcreating the introduction.
Patricia Kim (51:39):
Thank you so much for that question, Marsha. So
the introduction as well as thecoda were written
collaboratively with CarolynFornoff and Bethany Wigan. And I
think right off the bat, what'sreally special and unique about
this project, I think, is theway in which you have three
(51:59):
scholars from different fields,come together sharing their
expertise. So I'm an arthistorian. Bethany specializes
in Germanic languages, and,well, she's a cultural historian
of the Transatlantic.
And, Carolyn Fornoff focuses on,modern Mexican literature and
(52:21):
cinema. I focus on the ancientMediterranean world. And so, in
any other scenario, that mightstart off like a really corny
and nerdy academic joke. Right?
Narrator (52:35):
So what is it?
Patricia Kim (52:36):
What are you doing, together? But, I think
that we we purposely wanted toto take on this challenge of
speaking with and to each otherbecause the environmental
humanities, I think broadly,tries to bring together and try
(52:57):
out and experiment with newforms of knowledge building and
knowledge production, becausethe challenges that we're
presented with are so large and,in ways so incomprehensible to
the human eye, right, and withthe tools that we currently
have, that these kinds ofcollaborations and ethics of
(53:21):
care that both of you have beentalking about throughout this
conversation were needed. And sowe explicitly wanted the chapter
to be, you know, well researchedand cited and and well informed,
of course, but we also wanted tobe creative and to experiment
with different kinds of modes ofwriting, which was frankly, you
(53:45):
know, out of my own comfortzone. But sort of in the spirit
of us welcoming artistic andcreative and speculative
interventions as importantaspects of scholarly inquiry, we
also decided to sort of playaround with language and
experiment, in ways that werenot only arts oriented, but kind
(54:07):
of took a cue from the ways inwhich artists produce knowledge.
And you'll see that throughoutthe introduction, and especially
in the coda. We learned, youknow, I think, Marsha, you
mentioned earlier in thisconversation, the adaptation of
the chitchat, right, as a modeof sort of scholarly inquiry,
(54:28):
modeled, by Frankie Pavia andJason Bell's, contribution to
the book, in which, you know,just chit chatting, discussions
that productively lead nowhere,collaboration for the sake of
collaboration, are valid. We areso driven by success and by
these, like, myths of ofresults, And, you know, it's a
(54:52):
results driven culture that welive in. But we decided that,
modeling the importance ofcollaboration. Right?
Sort of performing that throughthe introduction and the the
coda in particular, were reallyimportant to us. So that's if
(55:12):
you pick up the book, you'll beable to see the ways in which
that that plays out. And and Iwill say that the coda, all of
us, were really personal. Right,shared very personal
information, in the coda, whichis sort of atypical for
scholarly books, in my opinion.And so that was, I think,
(55:33):
definitely out of my comfortzone, but I'm glad that I was
invited to to to open myself upin that kind of vulnerable way,
and really just play with andexperiment with creative writing
as a sort of, contribution tothese broader academic
(55:54):
conversations.
So thank you for that question,Marcia.
Marcia Ferguson (55:57):
Well, thank you for
Kate Farquhar (55:59):
I love that. Sorry.
Patricia Kim (56:01):
Oh, no, no.
Marcia Ferguson (56:01):
Thank you for writing. I love hearing that. I
really, especially the coda. I II love the future the future
past tense that's used. It willhave been a time.
It it it does it feels it feelspoetic, but also, you know,
incredibly informative and veryresponsible in a scholarly way.
But I love the Chit ChatCodetta. I mean, it's it's just
(56:25):
a a very intriguing and andfrankly entertaining, way to
end, the volume. So So thank youfor for being open to that.
Patricia Kim (56:35):
Oh well, thank you for thank you for asking these
questions, and also thank youboth for, contributing your
pieces to time scales. I don'tthink that the book would be as
good without both of you. Itruly believe that. I think that
the contribution of this book,or the intervention of this book
(56:56):
rather, is the way in which itreally takes seriously not only
the arts and humanities, butalso the natural sciences
together. And so I'm I'm trulygrateful for your time and your
generosity, and I really hopethat our paths meet again sooner
than later.
Marcia Ferguson (57:17):
Thank you, Patricia, and thank you, Kate.
Kate Farquhar (57:20):
Thank you. I so agree, and this has been really
an exciting and provocativeconversation that I know I'm
gonna continue thinking about.And and in thinking about it, I
will both wish that I had askedboth of you more and other
questions, and I'm just gonnahave to hope that we will get to
see each other again andcontinue talking.
Marcia Ferguson (57:40):
And, Kate, I feel like I have lots of
collaborations for us in my headalready, so we're just gonna
have to get together in realtime and and make something
happen.
Kate Farquhar (57:51):
I love that. Wonderful.
Narrator (57:55):
For more information visit z.umn.edu/timescales.
Why visual and performance arts, at all? What's
the point of thinking with artsoriented engagements in these
pressing conversations aroundthe environment and ecology?
Marcia Ferguson (00:26):
I think that what both wetland and period of
animate existence gave everyonewas the opportunity to feel what
deep time could be. And we can'treally get there through
language.
Narrator (00:49):
The urgency of climate change means that it is not
sufficient for environmentalscholarship to describe our
complex relationship to thenatural world. It must also
compel a response. TimescalesThinking Across Ecological
Temporalities gathers scholarsfrom different fields, placing
traditional academic essaysalongside experimental sections
(01:11):
to promote innovation andcollaboration. This is the third
and final podcast episode in aseries that has featured the
book's three editors (01:18):
Bethany Wigan, director of the PEN
program in environmentalhumanities Carolyn Fornoff,
assistant professor of LatinAmerican culture at the
University of Illinois at UrbanaChampaign and now Patricia Kim,
art historian and assistantprofessor faculty fellow at the
Gallatin School ofIndividualized Study at New York
(01:40):
University. Patricia is joinedin conversation by landscape
designer Kate Farquhar and byMarcia Ferguson, senior lecturer
in theater arts at theUniversity of Pennsylvania.
This conversation was recordedin November 2020.
Patricia Kim (01:56):
Hi. My name is Patricia Kim. I'm one of the co
editors of the forthcomingvolume timescales. I'm an art
historian, a curator, andeducator based in New York City.
Currently, I am assistantprofessor faculty fellow at
NYU's Gallatin School ofIndividualized Study and the
associate director of publicprograms at Monument Lab.
Marcia Ferguson (02:20):
Great. Are we introducing ourselves?
Patricia Kim (02:22):
I think so. I think that's what's happening.
Yeah.
Marcia Ferguson (02:25):
Okay. I'll jump in. I'm Marsha Ferguson. I am a
senior lecturer, at the theaterarts program at the University
of Pennsylvania. I'm on theboard of the Penn program for
the environmental humanitiesand, have been an interested
onlooker as that program hasgrown.
Kate Farquhar (02:46):
I'm Kate Farquhar. I'm a landscape
architect based in Philadelphia,and, I've been working at the
intersection of ecology,infrastructure, and art for
fifteen years. I became part ofthe project that produced this
book in a coordination role,helping to bring the public into
(03:08):
contact with an artwork calledWetland, which is a floating
boat and experiment lab on theLower Schuylkill. And we'll talk
a little bit more about thatsoon, but I would just describe
myself as a friend of the Pennprogram in environmental
humanities and an enthusiasticcheerleader for environmental
humanities in general.
Patricia Kim (03:30):
So Kate and Marsha, it's I'm really excited
to talk with you, and I waswondering, well, I've read your
pieces as one of the co editorsof Timescales, but I was
wondering if you could describeyour pieces and contributions to
the book, perhaps sort ofdescribe for our listener, what
(03:51):
which artwork or what pieces,you talked about in your essay?
Marcia Ferguson (03:58):
Sure. I I spoke to an artwork that was, at the
time, a work in progressperformance of Pig Iron Theatre
Company's, 2017 work, Period ofAnimate Existence, which was a
five act work, and it was,enormous in its scale. The the
(04:20):
exercise of the small work inprogress that we saw at the
conference really delighted meand the the conference
participants. And so my piecewas really in some ways an
appreciation for the way theatercan encapsulate the large and
(04:40):
the small. I think I'm quotingDan Rothenberg, the director,
when I say one of the thingsthat he was attempting was to
somehow convey things that aretoo big to get your head around.
And, by using a cast of, Ithink, is 87 people, tribe of
elders, tribe of children, veryoriginal, approaches to these
(05:04):
notions, They contributed thisthis provocation, and my piece
was a description of of that,small work in progress. It was
also a description of the largerwork as I saw it a year later at
the Philadelphia Fringe Festivalin 2017 in its, its realized
(05:24):
state and and also an argumentabout theater's place in the
environmental humanities itself.
Kate Farquhar (05:33):
Thank you, Marsha. I was so fortunate to be
able to see the work inprogress, and I really look
forward to discussing it more.And I know you remember the work
that I'm going to describebriefly, which is a very
compelling small boat calledwetland, which we understood as
an experimental floating lab, aplace for art, studying, and
(05:58):
conversing. It was a work thatwas kind of collaged over a 45
foot long salvaged houseboat.Artist Mary Mattingly and
several collaborators added amakeshift loft bedroom with beds
in it to sleep in and otheramenities to kind of round out
(06:19):
the day, including a compostingtoilet and a solar array and a
rain gathering cistern.
Wetland also included otherfloating craft alongside it,
such as gardens, that at timessupported vegetables. During its
residency as part of the PENprogram in environmental
(06:42):
humanities, It and its time onthe Lower Schuylkill River in
Philadelphia, it, added smallcraft to its neighboring gardens
as artists created new works tojoin that whole assemblage. In
time before its residencyconcluded, it ended up sinking.
(07:04):
So among the things we're goingto discuss, I think,
temporality, but also the ideaof works being temporary, I
think, is something, that reallyinterests me about art, the the
role of art in an experimentalproject, and the impressions
that it can leave you with andthen the possibility that imbues
(07:28):
those impressions, and I lookforward to discussing it
further.
Patricia Kim (07:32):
Well, I'm really excited. And so I think to sort
of kick off this conversation, Iwanna ask both Kate and Marsha
why visual and poor performancearts, at all? What's the point
of thinking along arts orientedengagements or with arts
oriented engagements in thesepressing conversations around
(07:53):
the environment and ecology?
Marcia Ferguson (07:57):
I'll jump into that because I love this
question. It actually is thequestion that prompted the piece
that I ultimately contributed tothe volume because it seems to
me that as the environmentalhumanities is developing itself
as a discourse and a field ofstudy, there's a lot of
(08:19):
discussion about, territory andand overlaps and, the
interdisciplinarity of theendeavor itself, which, of
course, is one of the thingsthat I find most exciting about
the program and also thisvolume, the the inherent
interdisciplinarity of it. And,but I I really do argue for
theater specifically, which ismy medium, as a site for
(08:44):
specific experimentations withtime, which, of course, is the
heart of time scales. The wholeidea of an Anthropocene, which
proposes an idea about time thatacknowledges both the limits of
human perceptions about timeeven as it points to the limits
of human time on the planet, sowhich to me is very
(09:07):
interestingly and importantlymind bending. It all it totally
chimes with my sense of theephemeral nature of performance,
which exists only right thisminute, right, and real good old
fashioned live theater withpeople that are breathing in the
same space, making us aware of aradical present, in other words.
(09:28):
And yet that combines with itsability to conjure any possible
imaginable relation of time andspace. So theater's always been
a place for imagining endlesstime, and endless space. So,
from fifth century Athens, wherethere's this verticality of the
(09:50):
cosmos, the gods above, andhuman beings below working out
complex relationships of destinyand fate and on and on. It seems
to me that that, theater isspecifically a place for these
kinds of of specificexperimentations around time.
And, of course, the piece that Iwrote about, which was something
(10:11):
that occurred at the the theconference that I was there to
help document and and moderatethe period, period of imminent
existence, pig iron theaterproduction is all about this
capability and thisexperimentation.
And it was itself one of thoseexperiments. So I hope that that
(10:32):
goes a little way towards what,to me, was so, energizing about
about the conference and andreally about the volume itself.
Patricia Kim (10:42):
Yeah. And what I'm hearing from you, Marsha, is
that for you, this theater artsand performing arts more broadly
allows us to sort of think aboutand experiment with how to
conceptualize the Anthropocene.Right? It sort of provides this
kind of perfect metaphor in someways for the different
temporalities that we mightexplore when we're thinking
(11:03):
ecologically. But I wonder, ifyou or Kate, maybe you wanna
jump in.
If you can maybe talk more aboutsort of art and theater's
relationship with theenvironment more broadly. That
is to say why art when we have,sort of physics or biology, you
(11:24):
know, practices and policy andremediation, even sort of
environmental activism, right?We have all these different
modes of engagement and inquiry,and yet the arts sort of seem to
offer something else, somethingdifferent. Kate, what do you
think about that?
Kate Farquhar (11:44):
It's such a great question. And, Marsha, I love
your chapter about period ofanimate existence and its place
in this project and the role oftheater generally. There's so
much to unpack there. In,reviewing our chapters and other
portions of the book, I was justthinking about how grateful I
(12:04):
was that that arts were centralto the beginning of this
project. And I see a number ofways that that arts play a role,
you know, at the beginning of anexperimental project like this,
and I think, keep thepossibilities for it open and
energized.
I see how when people engagewith the arts, they expect on
(12:29):
some level to have a sensoryexperience and to feel engaged
emotionally. And I think thathelps us when we're coming
together to span disciplines,particularly when the subjects
that we're gathering aroundcontain moral imperatives at
their core, or perhaps werebrought together through our own
(12:50):
separate moral imperatives andwe're not sure how to act or how
to proceed. I think that artsplay a role partly because
sensory experience sharedsensory experience and,
emotional engagement need to bea ground for, morally imperative
collaboration. And I also thinkthere may be examples that would
(13:14):
challenge my thought here, but Ithink the arts don't pose so
great a risk to us personally.They're ways to experiment
safely together and that therewards can really outpace the
risks, particularly in the arts.
For example, one of my favoritestories about wetland is how
(13:36):
over the course of its,residency off the banks of
Bartram's Garden, DanielleRedden had, you know, scores of
conversations with passersby.Danielle Redden is someone who
runs a public program in thatarea, a free boating program
that's very popular. And shesaid that people would come up
(13:57):
to her and ask about the boat,what is it. She would answer
that it's, you know, anexperimental lab, art project,
gathering space. And then peoplewould ask, does anyone live on
the boat?
And she would say, no. No onelives on the boat. And then very
frequently, they would say, canI live on the boat? And that's
the kind of speculation that Ithink where I think arts play a
(14:17):
really important role inbringing us together around
imagination and speculativepossibilities.
Patricia Kim (14:26):
I really love that, Kate. What you're saying
is that these sensoryexperiences sort of allow for
affective attachments, right, tobuild gaps, or to bridge gaps
rather, not to build them, butto bridge gaps and to sort of
draw these concepts that mightbe difficult to visualize or
really understand into the realmof comprehension as a way to
(14:50):
sort of spark a sense of urgencyaround these ecological issues.
Marcia, do you wanna addanything to that?
Marcia Ferguson (14:59):
Yes. I would. I I I have such fond memories of
wetland. And, Kate, I love yourpiece. I think your notion of
wetland as floating culture, wassomething that that just rang so
true to me because I I toointeracted with wetland as a
tourist, so to speak, at first,and I had that same experience.
(15:22):
I wanted to live on that boat.There was something about its
design and its proposals. It'snot quite a boat. It's, an
environment with a chicken coopand a rain barrel, and it it
really did conjure, Noah and allkinds of, like, totems of of
(15:43):
human cultures. But beyond that,it it becomes a metaphor or an
emblem for this human impulsethat I I hope what I'm saying
chimes with you, Kate, to to do.
And I think maybe, Patricia,that the sciences that are
(16:03):
grappling on chemical and,policy levels and different
kinds of, sort of hard factuallevels with climate change is a
realm that is a is a kind ofdoing. But as far as the human
body and all of us sharing thisterritory on this planet and the
(16:24):
thingness of being alive, it'ssomething that we all need to
remember is that's who we are.It's it's it's how we move
forward as a culture. So the themind, the the intellect, the
body, the emotional landscape,places like wetland, things like
(16:45):
live performance. They arespaces where we can experiment
and create metaphors for theintersection of these layers of
human understanding andendeavor.
And I'm just gonna if if I canhave the the nerve to quote your
piece, Kate, that I I love thissentence so much. And speaking
of doing, you say communicationwas carried by its setting and
(17:08):
shaped by circles of busy handsinfused by sensations of
bobbing, eavesdropping, molding,sipping, bracing, balancing,
basking, and shivering. Theviscera got involved. I mean,
for me, I that just makes me sohappy, that that approach to to
(17:29):
science. Right?
It's it's a place where ourhuman bodies are doing the
things that they need to do asas a kind of understanding and a
kind of communication that ourintellect, our our knowledge
base needs you know, we we alsoneed to breathe and swallow and
(17:49):
and do all of these thesethings, these gerunds. Perhaps
that's not a very articulateresponse, but I I'm I got so
excited when I read because it'sso frankly, it's so
performative, this notion ofwhat happens when you visit
wetland. And it happened for me,so it it it really rang true. I
think that's an important partof of thinking through all of
(18:11):
our problems. We have toremember we're human beings.
Patricia Kim (18:14):
So that's a perfect segue for my next
question for both of you, whichis, sort of around the
construction, aesthetics,articulations, and maintenance
of both period of animateexistence, this theater piece,
and of wetland, this sort ofsculptural kind of living, boat,
(18:36):
right, as allegories for broaderquestions around the
Anthropocene. And Kate, yourpiece in particular really
describe the ways in which thethe upkeep of wetland, right, as
well as its sinking, this sortthis sort of kind of poetic end
to its life kind of did that.And so I'm wondering if you
(18:57):
could elaborate there.
Kate Farquhar (18:59):
I'd love to. It's something that I still think
about. For me, the work itselfis very central to my memories
about kind of being theretowards the beginning of the PEM
program in environmentalhumanities and being there for
the time scales conference. Andon the other hand, my memories
(19:21):
of the relationships that Ibegan are as central. At the
time, I was in the process oflearning about Wepland, and I
was in the process of meeting alot of people.
I I met you, Patricia, and theother editors, and I was meeting
artists who participated in oneof our programs associated with
(19:43):
wetlands, which was the ecoEcotopian Toolkit Competition,
and I met members of the public.You know, I was learning about
wetland. I was, working on anexperiment in collaboration with
you and with many other newacquaintances, and I still don't
know how to maintain wetland.It's just hard for me to know
(20:07):
it's hard for me to express, Iguess, what I don't know. And at
the same time, I cherish all ofthe projects that we began.
And more than that, I cherishhaving met you and and the
others that I met, the fact thatwe met each other, and the fact
(20:27):
that we may, you know,collaborate again. And I think
that what is so central to anexperiment like this is the
story of relationships andlearning through relationships
as a legitimate modality forlearning and for expanding
knowledge even as the unexpectedhappens or some things that you
(20:53):
try fail in some way. That'sdefinitely something that I
carry with me. As I concludedthe chapter, my hope was that
because social questions andrelational questions and
questions about the exchange ofknowledge were always central to
(21:13):
the project of wetland. It's mygoal that those questions live
on with their own momentum andintegrity because there are
other artworks that are famousor compelling that have to do
with ruination or the landscape,but were always have always been
quite remote, both physicallyand socially.
(21:33):
And wetland was not, in myexperience, remote. And there
were, many problems andopportunities that it brought
one into contact with.
Patricia Kim (21:46):
What you're saying, reminds me a lot of
Donna Haraway's sort of makingkin in the Anthropocene and that
in order to survive sort of thiskind of sixth distinction as it
were, that these connections andrelationships that you're
describing, Kate, that went intothe maintenance and sort of the
upkeep of wetland are criticalat this juncture. Marsha, I'm
(22:09):
wondering, if the sort ofquestion of kinship came up for
you as you were sort ofexamining and exploring, period
of animate existence.
Marcia Ferguson (22:21):
Absolutely. It seemed to me kinship was key on
on a number of levels for thatpiece. Kinship both on the level
of what was inside theperformance, but also kinship
between the spectators and, theperformers. It seemed to me that
there was the aesthetics of thepiece invited, in a strange way,
(22:47):
almost a family stylerelationship to an old time
story around the campfire aboutour extinction in in some ways,
and and which is which is whatmarks the performance for me as
something really, reallystrange, and unique and
completely memorable. I left theperformance with this very it's
(23:12):
actually a feeling that I can'tdescribe.
I think it's pretty much beyondwords, and I'm someone who has
made a living talking a lotabout theater. But but but so so
you remember the times that youreally can't quite find the
right words to express whathappened. But I can also talk
about kinship on the level ofthe aesthetics of the piece.
(23:36):
Period of animate existenceaesthetics were at once casual
and cosmic, and a great theme ofthe piece was human time,
obviously. And the way we countit, the way we can, document it.
And in this performance iscounted in different ways, but,
(23:58):
one of the most important andgrounding ways it's counted is
through rituals of kinship, ofeveryday caring for yourself,
for others, specificallyrelationships between
generations. And for me, again,this was a hallmark of what made
(24:20):
it so special and unique becausehow many times have you seen
bands and tribes of older peopleoccupying a stage? It's not our
youth centric culture's interestto really document the lives of
elders. Then to bring intoconversation with that tribe
(24:44):
another tribe of children. And,sort of middle aged adult people
were, at least in in severalepisodes of this performance,
they were refreshingly absent.
And what happened when you havetribes of elders and tribes of
children performing thisdelicate choreography of
(25:04):
everyday care, but also agrander scale choreography of
literally interweaving oneanother on stage, you get this
very poetic sense of lifetimesand the limited reach, the
limitations of the reach of ahuman life, and how inadequate
it seems in some ways when rightup against another section of
(25:30):
the piece, which is all aboutthe counting of cosmic time,
other geological eras in whichhumanity is a memory, or on the
other hand is a future promisethat human life is just a kind
of life. And so period of animexistence provided contexts for
(25:51):
all kinds of discussions, thatwere subsequently pursued at the
conference, but that are alsopursued in the volume, even if
people writing about all thesedifferent, wonderful subjects
are not specifically respondingto that performance. To me, it
has such, a metaphoricalsignificance for all of them
(26:14):
because the environmentalhumanities itself was born of a
desire to sustain inquiry acrossdisciplines in the same way
period of animate existence doesthat by sustaining inquiry
across, children and adults andlifetimes and human beings.
So kinship rituals, kinshipperformances, if you will, are
(26:38):
the sort of the key that unlocksall the the layers of feeling to
me that go on in period of endof existence, individual and
cosmic.
Patricia Kim (26:50):
You know, I wanna go back to something that Marsha
said regarding sort of thelimitations of human time, sort
of contrasting with cosmic orgeological time, and kind of
juxtaposed next to future futuretime, and sort of the
uncertainty of the kind ofdistance or the distant future
(27:10):
that is. And this is somethingthat the editors and I were
really hoping to to throw intorelief. That is the
incommensurability of differenttime scales that we find within
these ecological discussions, aswell as ecological movements and
forces. And so I think it's sortof a perfect segue into the next
(27:35):
topic around temporality itself,right, which is sort of the
subject of this book as well asof the two different pieces,
that you both wrote about. I'dlike to first sort of think
together about ephemerality, andwe'll get to the kind of other,
you know, geological time, humantime, but there's something so
(27:59):
striking about sort of thetemporariness.
I think that's Tate, you pointedthis out. Right? That things
don't actually last. And so Iwas wondering, Kate and Marcia,
if you could perhaps comment onephemerality and impermanence,
and how that plays out both inyour pieces, and what you think
the stakes are for these broaderpressing questions around the
(28:22):
environment.
Kate Farquhar (28:24):
I think that ephemerality in human projects
is way underrated. One of thethings I really value is the
opportunity to question thework, you know, the work that I
usually do as a non academic,working in landscape
architecture, and beingalongside other people
questioning the work that theydo and then, kind of questioning
(28:45):
the definition of work. I Iguess one of the other things I
was thinking about is, how manythings happened around that time
and then how there was sir acertain wisdom in the direction
that they were going and theenergy behind them that started
to prepare me and give me thelanguage that I needed to start
(29:09):
confronting new realities. Hardtimes is one other way to say
it.
Patricia Kim (29:15):
Okay. I I think that you pulled out a lot of
different kinds oftemporalities. Right? Iteration,
repetition, cyclical time,simultaneity, hard times.
Marsha, what about you?
Same question about a fumaralityand temporariness or
impermanence.
Marcia Ferguson (29:31):
I'm so used to thinking about this in terms of
plays and performance, and it'sso good for me to get shaken out
of, my orientation, about theendurance of the length of a
play and how how long anaudience's attention can be can
(29:52):
be kept on a certain theme or,you know, the interplay between
entertainment, emotion, andvirtuosity. These are all
questions that I'm used todelving into, with other people
in terms of creating a work ofart. And I'm guessing, Kate, it
it comes up for you in, in yourwork as well. But but it's the
(30:16):
whole point is that it'sephemeral. I can't imagine doing
this kind of labor for somethingthat's going to last forever.
It would be a different kind oflabor, I think. We would just
simply and when I say we, I'mthinking about fellow artists,
because, of course, theaters isinnately collaborative. So
you're always like Kate wassaying, the relationships that
(30:40):
you make when you're creatingart, are half the point. At
least they are for me. Youcreate these intense
communities, which arethemselves ephemeral.
When you're talking about a aproduction, you are completely
eating, drinking, breathing,thinking with this group of
(31:01):
collaborators for six, eight,ten weeks, and then it's over.
Then you move on. You rememberthem fondly, at least I usually
do, or or you have good storiesat any rate. So both on the
level of lifetime performanceitself and and on a slightly
larger level of what it means interms of an artist's lifetime
(31:24):
and the collaborativecommunities and their lifespan,
which is limited. Ephemeralityis kind of the point because
without that ephemerality, Ithink things would get stale and
the quality of the imagination,it wouldn't be as fresh.
You wouldn't have new things toto bring into it because you've
(31:47):
just been doing the same thingover and over again and working
with the same people over andover again. So on that level, I
think art and these kinds ofcollaborative artworks, and even
the kind of artwork that thatwetland was and is because we're
still talking about it and it'sbeen documented so well. Lodged
(32:08):
within it is, of course, yes,the it's ephemeral nature, but
there's something that you cansay about the nature of ephemera
that brings out the best in usperhaps, that brings out the
freshest thinking andcollaborative impulses. And, I
(32:29):
mean, one of the things to sayabout this volume that I find so
exciting is the very fact thatsome of these essays are, you
know, bringing together chemistsand composers, or what have you.
And the the freshness of thewriting in those instances, the
chitchats.
Right? That's a word that's usedin the volume that I really
(32:50):
appreciate. The very idea, it'salmost like neighbors leaning
over the fence for aconversation about their
territories and terrains andfinding common ground. This is
new, and it's and it's probablyephemeral. You know, time scales
two, volume two, will be a verydifferent animal if it exists.
(33:11):
And so I I guess I'm arguing fora a value, a real I put a real
value on the very limitation oftime and if immorality.
Patricia Kim (33:21):
No. I I love that, Marsha. Sort of kind of it it
really is a value change though.Right? Because we're so I feel
as a culture, even in arthistory, so much of it is about
archiving and conserving andpreserving for the present and
for the future and kind of in inmy case, for ancient art history
and archaeology, it's sort ofthis obsession over preserving
(33:44):
something as it was at aparticular historic moment of
its birth, right, or itscreation.
And, it doesn't allow for thingsto change, and it doesn't allow
for things to sink, and and betemporary. And so I think, I
think we have a lot to learnfrom theater, actually. I do
too. I agree.
Marcia Ferguson (34:06):
Myself included. I I learn from it all
the time.
Patricia Kim (34:09):
So I mean, maybe this is I had another question
about, about time in particular,and I and I wanted to talk a
little bit about deep time.Right? Whether it's deep in the
past or deep into the future.Kind of this sense of monumental
scale, a scale that's kind of solarge and vague and abstract
(34:31):
that it's hard for us to reallyvisualize and represent with the
tools that we have. And I thinkthat on some level, both of your
pieces start to grapple withthat sort of deep and abstract
sense of temporality and time.
So I was wondering, maybe ifeither Kate or Marsha, both of
you, I'd love to hear what yourthoughts are, and and what
(34:55):
you've learned regarding sort ofdeep, sort of chunks of time, in
your explorations of these twoworks.
Kate Farquhar (35:04):
I think I'll jump in. I'm not sure what to say
exactly about deep time inrelationship to wetland except
to say that when I scaled outand because I'm a landscape
architect, I am accustomed toscaling out spatially, to
capture the like, a regionallandscape and larger regional
(35:29):
conditions and features and, tosome extent, geology insofar as
it impacts the the builtlandscape or the experiential
landscape, usually. The thingabout wetland was that it was
situated in its immediatesurroundings by a historic
colonial garden that has hadmany lives through the
(35:51):
generations and is a very vitalplace presently. And then right
immediately outside of its kindof garden environment, it was
close to the largest refinerylandscape that was still
operating on the East Coast. Andthen since its residency and
since we worked on the book, therefinery exploded and was
(36:14):
finally closed because I believethere were just financial
obstacles to running continuingto run and ensure activity there
that was so unstable andharmful.
So that is striking because ofits enormous spatial presence
(36:35):
and its the way that resourcesare defined, I suppose, on that
landscape that's completelyseparate from the city, but
affected asthma rates forgenerations. I wanted to explore
Philadelphia's ongoingchallenges with stormwater and
waste disposal. So the ways thatwetland was working on questions
(37:00):
that were pursued during theindustrial revolution when
Philadelphia developed, like,the first public wastewater
management system in thecountry, and now that system is
old and under capacity andcontinues to have problems.
There are ways in which I thinkwetland helped me consider how a
(37:21):
lot of the aging infrastructurewhere I live is still settler
colonial and bears out theproblems that were kind of baked
into the installation of settlercolonial infrastructure.
Marcia Ferguson (37:36):
I I resonate with this living in a city
that's got this colonialinheritance as a part of our
everyday life. I I completelyresonate with what you're
saying, Kate, and having been onwetland and and reading your
excellent piece about it and itsdemise, it seems to me that it
was a vessel that suggestedtime, deep time, future time,
(37:59):
especially future time, andespecially future ecological
time. As far as what period ofanimate animate existence did in
the world, the very notion ofdeep time, it seemed to me, was
introduced through the firstsequence, which was monumental
cords, projections of the fiveextinctions, and then this very
(38:23):
dramatic emergence of this hugeobject that was only very slowly
revealed by the curtains pullingback. The Zellerbach, where I
saw it, is a thousand seathouse, so very large theater. So
the stage, you can imagine, isaccordingly quite quite large,
and this object filled it, or atleast it seemed appeared to fill
(38:46):
it.
It was mind blowing to watch asthe curtains you just couldn't
believe as the curtains werepulling back that you were gonna
see more of it, that there wasmore to be seen. And of course,
wonderful light design,wonderful music by, Troy Herian.
And it was just this dramaticemerge of a spectacular spinning
(39:06):
black planet in and of itselfwithout language. It was almost
like introducing, like, here'sthe character. Here you go.
Here is the the subject of ourpiece. This is our planet, and
this is deep time. This is whatit looks like. The second
movement pulled really it gaveus a great contrast to that, by
bringing us right down onto thehuman level with, basically a
(39:30):
song and dance, a bunch ofpeople. Right?
So this, I'm talking about avisual image that, and in a way
I'm going to connect it to, towetland in a minute, but, but a
visual image excited in me as aspectator, and I don't think I
was alone in this, a feeling ofwhat deep time must be, and and,
(39:53):
again, beyond language. But itwas this feeling, this
resonance, this, oh, wow. Okay.Too large to get my head around
that, but there it is by thesame token. So very, very
emotional, response to thisnotion of deep time.
And one of the ways that Iinteracted with wetland was at
(40:14):
Bethany's invitation. I broughtmy directing class. I was
teaching, section ofintroduction to directing, and I
brought my directing class ontothe boat along with, Sarah
Standing, who's an eco theaterscholar. And she was there with
my class to experience this thisprovocation, right, this
(40:38):
floating provocation. And mystudents, I had them do
improvisations then and there inthe moment to kind of get at
what it is that they wereprovoked by.
And they produced this reallyfun and entertaining series of
of improvisations, but all ofthem had to do with end times.
(41:05):
None of them were about floatinghappily with, ducks and chickens
and and family, upon the seas.They were all sort of extreme.
This is the the end of the humanrace. We can't breathe anymore.
We can't see anymore, you know,one after another. And when we
(41:25):
talked about it afterwards, theemotion associated with climate
change, the anxiety, the fear,the feeling of overwhelm was
what came to the the surface forall of them as fledgling
directors. And I guess I'mconnecting those two things
because of this sense ofoverwhelm with deep time,
(41:45):
whether it's going forward intowhatever place that we all will
be, you know, strapping chickchicken coops onto surfboards
and trying to exist the thewaters of that are gonna swamp
us any minute or or the theenormity of the black ball
spinning in space on a stage infront of us. I think the
(42:06):
emotional response is is deeplyconnected, and they they both
point towards this notion,Patricia, that you're you're
asking us to comment on of ofdeep time.
Kate Farquhar (42:18):
I find that so moving, and I think I I loved
there's so many things that wereso that stay with me from the
period of existence piece andthat I really appreciate in your
chapter. But the the way thatyou wrote about performers who
were elders and performers whowere children performing
(42:38):
together and how the emotionassociated with watching that
unfold is kind of hard tocapture in writing really stays
with me. Like, I think as you'retalking about the enormity, the
the difficulty of starting aconversation, but then, in some
(42:59):
ways, the importance of havingconversations, like, in a
nurturing environment or in acaring environment is something
that makes me think of thatscene and, like, how I realized
as an audience member that Iyearn to see a whole bunch of
older people and a whole bunchof kids together.
Marcia Ferguson (43:18):
That's great. And if I could just respond to
that quickly, Kate, I I lovethat that you are landing on
this emotion, and I think thatwe're coming back in a circle
to, Patricia, one of yourearliest questions in this
conversation about why art. Youknow, we have a bunch of
scientists working on theseproblems. Why do we need art in
(43:40):
there? And I think that whatboth wetland and period of
animate existence gave everyonewas the opportunity to lift our
head up from our screen or ourpiece of paper or our our
discipline to feel what it isthat everybody's working on, to
(44:05):
feel what deep time could be.
And we can't really get therethrough language. We can really
only get there through thesefeelings that are generated by
these kinds of artworks.
Patricia Kim (44:19):
This conversation is really answering some of the
earlier questions about why art.Right? And obviously, or
evidently from thisconversation, it not only helps
us interpret, but also reallysense and comprehend and also
grieve. Right? The scale ofcatastrophe, in addition to the
(44:39):
scale of geologic time, that isit's it's so hard to kind of
represent, but is usuallyrepresented in numbers and
through graphs, but to be ableto see it, through kind of the
relative, you know, scale orsize of stages, or to kind of
see it with, a boat kind ofagainst the backdrop of an old
(45:04):
oil refinery, I think kind ofhelps illustrate these
complexities, immediately andviscerally.
You know, this brings me to mylast question, right, kind of I
feel like this entireconversation we've talked about
why art, or we made the case forart, right, as an important
actor within these conversationsaround the Anthropocene and
(45:28):
environmental humanities, aswell as ecological studies. And
so I just invite you to, I don'tknow, talk about any other works
of art or media that you'reexcited about, that touch on
similar things or or don't atall, or or if you're working on
anything else at the moment thatyou'd like to share that might
be relevant, to time scales.
Marcia Ferguson (45:50):
I could speak to something that I'm working on
now as a supporter. I'm on theboard of the Unscripted Project,
which is, an initiative begun bytwo Penn students,
undergraduates. They'vegraduated now, but they won the
the first presidentialengagement award that that was
(46:10):
given to a proposal in the arts.And their proposal, which
they're realizing now, was tobring training in improvisation
to, Philadelphia public schoolchildren. And so that's
happening now.
They actually have artists, inschools. They have students over
even over Zoom, learningimprovisation, working with one
(46:33):
another in improvisatorycollaborations, and gaining
these skills. And to me, thisproject is it's so exciting to
be even just like a sort of a Istarted out as a a mentor, their
faculty mentor for theirproject, and now I'm on the
board. So I'm really a acheerleader. But to me, it's so
forward looking and visionarybecause the whole notion is to
(46:55):
gift the generations coming upwith these skills to
collaborate, to imaginetogether, to, experiment, to do
deep listening to one another,to allow our own behaviors and
our own ideas to be consciouslyimpacted and change because of
(47:18):
interaction with the ideas ofothers, which is what
improvisation is.
So I would say that project hasgreat bearing on time scales and
the the experimentation that'sgoing on in this volume because
this very essential trope ofcollaboration and
experimentation, seems to mesort of a a seed or a key skill
(47:39):
that unlocks the potential tosolve our biggest problems.
Kate Farquhar (47:45):
That's really exciting. First two things that
come to mind for me are anexciting new project that has
been organized by a number oflandscape architectural
organizations that include theLandscape Architecture
Foundation, the McCarty Centerbased at Penn, the Center for
Resilient Cities and Landscapes,the American Society of
(48:06):
Landscape Architects, and theCouncil of Educators in
Landscape Architecture. Sorry.I'm reading that because I
didn't wanna get it wrong, butit's it's basically hosted by a
number of organizations, andit's called the Green New Deal
Super Studio. So during thepandemic, there are
organizations and designers whosaw an opportunity for us to get
(48:27):
going and talk with each otherabout the possibilities of a
Green New Deal and that the waythe work is structured is to
urge partnerships that includedesigners and nondesigners, of
all kinds to gather around realproblems and develop, you know,
(48:50):
analysis of those problems andthen ultimately produce policy
recommendations, which I see asa really exciting direction for
design and potentially for art.
I'm also I've become interestedrecently in the trauma informed
movement, I guess is what Iwould call it for lack of a
better word, and how disciplineslike mine, landscape
(49:13):
architecture, might ask thequestion, what is a trauma
informed way to work? And,Patricia, one of the things that
I there's so many things that Ilove about your approach towards
editing this book and also thewriting that you developed in
the introduction. I did see, youknow, the mention of trauma as a
(49:33):
concern in these topics. And inmy view, there are other fields
that are approaching the topicas though the the body and
collaboration and gesture andfeelings of belonging in the
landscape are central concernsto the development of trauma
(49:55):
informed trauma informed theoryand practice. And that's
something that I would encourageothers to explore within their
disciplines and acrosscollaborations.
Patricia Kim (50:06):
Thank you so much, Kate and Marsha for sharing some
more, about the work that you'redoing within and adjacent to,
the environmental humanities,but also in relation to this bug
project that, both of youcontributed to. I guess, are
there any other kind ofquestions or comments, that
(50:29):
either of you may have?Patricia, I
Marcia Ferguson (50:33):
I too like Kate, I I loved the introduction
to this volume, and it seems tome to be doing something quite
new and special. And it'swritten by three of you as I
understand it, and there's somewhat I one of the things I
really love about it is thatthere's a a real, like, a
(50:53):
presence in the room of the ofthe people collaborating across
this introduction. And you youdo speak to the sharing of
labor, the frustrations, and thethe joy of breaking the kind of
new ground that this volumebreaks. So I was wondering if, I
could ask you to just brieflycomment on the creation of of
(51:19):
the volume's introduction andand how the proposals within it,
about work sharing,collaboration, bringing distant,
methodologies and, disciplinestogether, how that might have
translated into the work ofcreating the introduction.
Patricia Kim (51:39):
Thank you so much for that question, Marsha. So
the introduction as well as thecoda were written
collaboratively with CarolynFornoff and Bethany Wigan. And I
think right off the bat, what'sreally special and unique about
this project, I think, is theway in which you have three
(51:59):
scholars from different fields,come together sharing their
expertise. So I'm an arthistorian. Bethany specializes
in Germanic languages, and,well, she's a cultural historian
of the Transatlantic.
And, Carolyn Fornoff focuses on,modern Mexican literature and
(52:21):
cinema. I focus on the ancientMediterranean world. And so, in
any other scenario, that mightstart off like a really corny
and nerdy academic joke. Right?
Narrator (52:35):
So what is it?
Patricia Kim (52:36):
What are you doing, together? But, I think
that we we purposely wanted toto take on this challenge of
speaking with and to each otherbecause the environmental
humanities, I think broadly,tries to bring together and try
(52:57):
out and experiment with newforms of knowledge building and
knowledge production, becausethe challenges that we're
presented with are so large and,in ways so incomprehensible to
the human eye, right, and withthe tools that we currently
have, that these kinds ofcollaborations and ethics of
(53:21):
care that both of you have beentalking about throughout this
conversation were needed. And sowe explicitly wanted the chapter
to be, you know, well researchedand cited and and well informed,
of course, but we also wanted tobe creative and to experiment
with different kinds of modes ofwriting, which was frankly, you
(53:45):
know, out of my own comfortzone. But sort of in the spirit
of us welcoming artistic andcreative and speculative
interventions as importantaspects of scholarly inquiry, we
also decided to sort of playaround with language and
experiment, in ways that werenot only arts oriented, but kind
(54:07):
of took a cue from the ways inwhich artists produce knowledge.
And you'll see that throughoutthe introduction, and especially
in the coda. We learned, youknow, I think, Marsha, you
mentioned earlier in thisconversation, the adaptation of
the chitchat, right, as a modeof sort of scholarly inquiry,
(54:28):
modeled, by Frankie Pavia andJason Bell's, contribution to
the book, in which, you know,just chit chatting, discussions
that productively lead nowhere,collaboration for the sake of
collaboration, are valid. We areso driven by success and by
these, like, myths of ofresults, And, you know, it's a
(54:52):
results driven culture that welive in. But we decided that,
modeling the importance ofcollaboration. Right?
Sort of performing that throughthe introduction and the the
coda in particular, were reallyimportant to us. So that's if
(55:12):
you pick up the book, you'll beable to see the ways in which
that that plays out. And and Iwill say that the coda, all of
us, were really personal. Right,shared very personal
information, in the coda, whichis sort of atypical for
scholarly books, in my opinion.And so that was, I think,
(55:33):
definitely out of my comfortzone, but I'm glad that I was
invited to to to open myself upin that kind of vulnerable way,
and really just play with andexperiment with creative writing
as a sort of, contribution tothese broader academic
(55:54):
conversations.
So thank you for that question,Marcia.
Marcia Ferguson (55:57):
Well, thank you for
Kate Farquhar (55:59):
I love that. Sorry.
Patricia Kim (56:01):
Oh, no, no.
Marcia Ferguson (56:01):
Thank you for writing. I love hearing that. I
really, especially the coda. I II love the future the future
past tense that's used. It willhave been a time.
It it it does it feels it feelspoetic, but also, you know,
incredibly informative and veryresponsible in a scholarly way.
But I love the Chit ChatCodetta. I mean, it's it's just
(56:25):
a a very intriguing and andfrankly entertaining, way to
end, the volume. So So thank youfor for being open to that.
Patricia Kim (56:35):
Oh well, thank you for thank you for asking these
questions, and also thank youboth for, contributing your
pieces to time scales. I don'tthink that the book would be as
good without both of you. Itruly believe that. I think that
the contribution of this book,or the intervention of this book
(56:56):
rather, is the way in which itreally takes seriously not only
the arts and humanities, butalso the natural sciences
together. And so I'm I'm trulygrateful for your time and your
generosity, and I really hopethat our paths meet again sooner
than later.
Marcia Ferguson (57:17):
Thank you, Patricia, and thank you, Kate.
Kate Farquhar (57:20):
Thank you. I so agree, and this has been really
an exciting and provocativeconversation that I know I'm
gonna continue thinking about.And and in thinking about it, I
will both wish that I had askedboth of you more and other
questions, and I'm just gonnahave to hope that we will get to
see each other again andcontinue talking.
Marcia Ferguson (57:40):
And, Kate, I feel like I have lots of
collaborations for us in my headalready, so we're just gonna
have to get together in realtime and and make something
happen.
Kate Farquhar (57:51):
I love that. Wonderful.
Narrator (57:55):
For more information visit z.umn.edu/timescales.
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