August 6, 2024 • 27 mins
Ever wondered how moments of weakness can transform into profound experiences of God's presence? Discover Pastor Mo’s heartfelt journey through a painful breakup, where he battled the urge to respond with anger but ultimately found peace through scripture and obedience. Pastor Kendall joins in to reflect on how our lowest points make us more open to divine guidance, emphasizing the power of aligning ourselves with God's will to truly feel His closeness.
We also explore the role of spiritual disciplines in everyday life, from worship and prayer to engaging with Christian literature. Hear a moving story from a mission trip that underscores the importance of being present and attentive to God's work. Delve into Richard Foster's detailed disciplines, both inward and outward, and learn how community and fellowship can elevate your spiritual growth. This episode calls for a deeper openness, vulnerability, and expectancy in our daily routines to experience God more fully and encourages sharing personal spiritual practices with others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello listeners and welcome back to another episode
of Unpacking Truths.
We're excited to again beresponding to a question that
one of you submitted, and it's agreat question how do you
experience God personally?
I'm Pastor Kendall and I'mPastor.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Mo.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Unpacking Truths, where we dive deep into
God's timeless truths for ourlives today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Grab your coffee, open your hearts and your minds,
come take this journey with usas we unpack God's timeless
truths for our lives today.
Grab your coffee, open yourhearts and your minds, come,
take this journey with us as weunpack God's truths.
Yeah, so when we think abouthow we experience God, I can
only talk and speak into thisfrom my own context.
Right, okay, and so one of thebiggest ways that I have found
(00:43):
where I've connected to God orfelt the very presence of God
has been really in God's word,because there have been distinct
times in my life where I wasn'tsure what to do, I wasn't sure
what to say, and differentscripture would come up, and so
(01:04):
that was God's spirit reallyguiding me, and I felt that, and
many times I just actually hadthis experience where a
relationship had ended it didn'tend great and I was really
seeking God.
I needed to feel the verypresence of God in this,
(01:26):
presence of God in this, and Iwas hoping God, you know,
allowed me to maybe like smitehim or you know, you know curses
on you or something.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
But as I find a verse for that you know I was.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I was looking, I was like, come on, god, you know
what, what are you going to do?
Wrath down fire on him, youknow.
And as I was praying, I feltGod and what came up was the
scripture regarding loving yourneighbor over and over.
And I was like, ew, no thanks.
(01:53):
Next, yeah, I was like next, andI just kept hearing in my heart
tell him my truth, just howloved he is, and I thought this
has got to be the worst thingGod has asked me to do.
I wanted to go throat punch himpersonally, but apparently God
(02:14):
wanted me to speak truth intohow loved he was.
Right, because hurt people hurtpeople.
And so, you know, obviouslythere was some insecurities,
some things going on within himwhere he didn't feel loved.
And so I found myself as Icontinued to pray and wrestle
with this and didn't want to dothat.
(02:35):
Then what came into my heart wasa scripture where Jesus was
saying if you have anythingagainst your brother, leave the
temple, get out of worship, goand make things right before you
come back in the house of God.
And that then to me was Godsaying how can you live into who
I've called you to be as apastor and leading worship when
(02:57):
you're not even listening to thelove that I've called you to be
in the world.
And so, instead of doing what Ihad otherwise wanted to do, I
ended up going and giving thisperson that had actually hurt me
pretty bad a Bible andhighlighted verses speaking into
(03:17):
how loved he was, just for whohe was, not because of what he's
done or accomplished, notbecause of what he's done or
accomplished.
And I was faithful in that.
And I would never have gottento that conclusion of
experiencing God and hearingfrom God had I not already known
some of the scriptures.
So that is exactly how Godguided me, was through his word
(03:41):
and does it all the time I'llhear.
Be quick to listen and slow tospeak right when I'm talking
with my mom or someone else whocan I don't know, kind of
trigger me get me, you know,trigger me, get me from one to
15 really quickly.
God's Word just comes and speaksinto my heart and my mind, and
it's through Scripture.
(04:01):
It really is moving andbreathing.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know, one of the things that strikes me out of
that story and sort of almostseries of stories, mo is
sometimes I think we canexperience God most clearly or
most powerfully when we're atour weakest when we're hurting
when we're realizing we've sortof come to the end of our own
strength, that sometimes thatmakes us more moldable, more
(04:27):
ready to listen even though youreally didn't want to listen to
what you had to hear.
God had to say.
But I do think sometimes in ourbrokenness we can experience
God in ways that when we'restrong and going forward we are
like, yeah, I'd like a littleGod on the side, but it is in
our.
You know, paul keeps saying inmy weakness I am strong.
(04:48):
You know where God says mygrace is sufficient that
sometimes we experience God'sgrace in our weakest, or we
experience God's guidance mostclearly when we're most wanting
to go this way.
God sends us the other way.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, and you know what.
But the beauty of it was thatafter I had done that right Like
after I had been faithful tothat and dropped this off and
had a beautiful note with it aswell I felt the peace of God
right, that past understanding,I felt at peace.
Finally, I felt good.
I'm still dealing with hurt,but at the same time I felt just
(05:28):
a sense of peace instead ofanxiety that I was feeling prior
and that was me experiencingGod and some of those promises.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well and there's another interesting point in
that, mo that some of that peacecomes out of obedience.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That when we are obedient to God and to what he
is calling us to, even if it'ssurprising things and hard
things, there is a peace thatcomes because we know we're
standing in God's will.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You know sometimes.
You know what's the old jokeabout.
You know if you're not, what'sthe old joke about.
You know if you don't sense Godclose.
Who moved.
Oh right, you know we sometimesthink God moved away from us.
Well, maybe it's.
We've moved away from Godbecause we're acting in our own
will, doing our own thing.
When we are obedient, we willsense God closer because we have
(06:20):
started to align ourselves withwhat God is saying to us?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yes, and I do believe that it's like so.
Scripture says that God isalways with us, never leaves us,
is before us, is behind us, isbeside us.
But I think you're very right.
I think something happens whenwe're obedient and we don't
listen to our feelings, butinstead follow what God has
called us to do and how God'scalled us to live, and we open
(06:45):
ourselves up to being able toexperience God so much more um
in our lives.
So I think that, yeah, I agreewith you there, definitely.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Um, well, and I love this, we, we always talk a
little bit ahead.
Uh, listeners, you know withwhere this is going, but then
things come up.
We didn't talk about that piecethat God just took us there.
So let me just share a coupleof the places where I've
experienced God personally in mylife as well.
For me, as a kid growing up andin my grade school and high
(07:19):
school and even college yearsand beyond, it wasn't worship,
it was in times of worship,through the preaching, that I
would sometimes.
I did this thing as a kid and Idon't know that I did it, but
we had a pastor who I grew up,who was my pastor, was a good
(07:39):
preacher, a good communicator,and I remember as a kid sitting
in the pew and just reallyzeroing in and really hearing
from him what felt like Godspeaking into my life and in
ways that, like the rest of theeverything faded and I was just
focused in on that moment, andso I experienced God through the
words that you know, pastorLuking, pastor.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Dean.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Luking great work man , shout out, shout out
Appreciated it and it reallysensed he was trying to bring
God's word and speak it into mylife.
So in preaching on retreatssome high school retreats, but
also our E3 retreat here havebeen moments where I've
experienced God speaking truthinto my life.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And what do you think it is about those retreats,
though?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Oh, I think you know it's the classic.
You know we're often sofrazzled in our busy world.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And there is something and I say it to folks
who go on the E3 retreat yougive God 48 hours of undivided
attention.
It's not that God needs theattention, Right, it's that
we're putting the other stuff tothe side and so we're actually
in a place where we can listen.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Absolutely Well.
Leviticus 10 speaks into Godsaying I must be glorified.
And so we are to craft ourlives in a way where we give God
our first right, Our time, ourattention.
You know we so often, I think,forget to invite God.
God's there, right, but I wantto invite you into my day, I
(09:14):
want you with me.
When we're in relationships wewant to know our partner wants
to be with us, or our friends,the people we're with, and God
wants that as well.
Right, Like, come into my day,into my morning, everything I do
.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well and Mo.
I think that's a perfect segueinto part of what I wanted to
lift up today.
For experiencing God personally.
One of the things that I wasreminded of I don't know 20-some
years ago is there was thiswhole movement of reclaiming
spiritual disciplines by peoplelike Richard J Foster and Dallas
(09:54):
Willard, with the spirit of thedisciplines acknowledging that
there are disciplines in ourlives, disciplines of worship,
of devotional time, of readingscripture, of prayer, of
meditation, but also other sortsof disciplines that help us
that when we practice them ashabits and habits sound like bad
(10:16):
things, but practicaldisciplines we're opening
ourselves up to looking for God,we're opening ourselves to
hearing and sensing God ratherthan just running through our
day and Not in just missing themoments where God shows up.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
What are some disciplines that you have
applied to your life, that whereyou have experienced God?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You know, one of the and this may sound like the
simplest, foolish, most foolishlittle thing, but for me one of
the most constant disciplines,probably the two most constant
disciplines of my life, are one,worship, but secondly, prayer
before meals disciplinesprobably the two most constant
disciplines of my life are one,worship, but secondly, prayer
before meals.
And for me those aren'tperfunctory moments.
(11:03):
Those are moments where Iactually am stopping in the
middle of my day, whether I'mwith a group of people or I'm by
myself, and I just am thankingGod for this moment, for this
day, and it's just a momentwhere I'm pausing and just sort
of going thank you and I'm opento you, lord.
(11:23):
And so those are a couple ofthe disciplines.
I mean there are others that Iuse as well, taking some time in
devotional, in prayer, in themoment, in various moments, but
those have been probably two ofthe most constant in my life.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, well, I found just coming off of this.
I just came off of a missiontrip.
For those who don't know, itwas an Appalachia service
project.
We're in Virginia and we werehelping work on homes.
And that's proof that God'sspirit works in and through us,
because I was up there helpingreplace a roof with a team of
women and you know we can do allthings through Christ, who
(12:06):
gives us strength and we did agreat job.
But I, you know, I reallyexperienced the presence of God
when we got to talk to thehomeowner.
She was in her forties, she isin her 40s, she has a
debilitating disease where she'sin a wheelchair now and it's an
electric wheelchair and shewould wheel out every morning
and just sit there in the hotsun and be with us and she was
(12:30):
just so filled with joy to bewith us and she would share her
life and about her daughter anddifferent struggles she's had,
but always circling back to justhow grateful she is and how.
How can you not believe in a God?
Look at you, beautiful women onmy roof, um, helping helping my
home, um, so that it no longerleaks.
And like the roof no longer isleaking, and I was just like my
(12:53):
mind was just.
I just felt God like saying tome do you see me?
Like do we take the time to seeGod in all things?
Like she could have been upsetI'm in this wheelchair, you
ladies are taking forever on myroof like all this different
stuff.
She could have looked at it somany different ways, but she had
a godly perspective and andit's because she herself every
(13:18):
morning she spent time with Godand it really helped structure
her day.
But in our encounter with herwe just felt God at work, in the
way our stories would connectand we were able to relate in
different ways and share wisdomand how God worked in our life,
through relationships or ourchildren or all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, and that's where I think, experiencing God
personally, some of it isputting those.
You could miss those moments ifyou aren't tuned into those
moments.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Absolutely.
The present moment is keybecause we could have easily
been distracted and we were attimes right, right up on that
roof Like I got to get this done.
I don't have time to come downthere.
You know, I'm going to workthrough my break or lunch, when
it was like God so often callsus to, so much more.
If we would just lift our headsup from our cell phones or stop
(14:10):
and and ask God what do youwant me to do right in this
moment?
Right, not my agenda, not mytask list, but what are you
calling me to do?
And that's where we experienceGod, when we're open to that and
we surrender to that in oureveryday lives.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And that, to me, is what the disciplines do, is they
begin to shape us to be peoplewho are open, listening, looking
for the ways that God iswanting to be present, expecting
, expecting, expecting God tomove and work.
You know one of the otherthings that you know.
When I was reflecting on thisquestion over the last week,
(14:46):
remember that one of the thingsin my teenage and 20s teenage
years and 20s one of the thingsthat shaped where I experienced
God's touch and presence wasalso through Christian
literature of reading.
And the reading authors like CSLewis, Walt Wangeren, Frederick
(15:10):
Buechner.
There was just that they imbuedtheir writings, their
narratives, with God moments andgrace moments in ways that in
seeing it written or seeing itin someone else's story, I then
(15:30):
was looking for it in my ownstory.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It's Jesus, it's parables, it's storytelling.
We know who we are throughstory, we know who we're called
to be through story, we knowwhat God is doing through story
and it's so powerful, and Ithink that's why sharing our
stories, too, is an incredibleway to experience God.
But we have to be open andvulnerable enough and trust God
(15:54):
enough to share our stories.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And Absolutely, absolutely.
You know, it also strikes me,mo, as we're talking about this
and the reason this personprobably sent in this question,
is because they're maybestruggling to experience God
personally, and I think it'simportant for us to acknowledge
it's not that, you know, becauseMo and I are pastors, we
(16:19):
experience God moments every day, all day.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I'm on the mountaintop every single day.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It isn't like that.
Sarcasm and I think we'vetalked about this in an earlier
podcast, but, mother Teresa,when they discovered some of her
writings after her death howmuch she struggled to experience
a sense of Christ's presence inher life.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Wasn't it?
It was like over 10 years.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
It was an extended period of time.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
She didn't feel the presence of God and yet every
day she got up and did nothingbut serve the community of
Kolkata, India, in incredibleways that transformed that
culture over there.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And so I think it is a reminder that it's not that
we've experienced God Jesus warmand fuzzies every moment of
every day.
We don't that.
We do disciplines.
We adopt different disciplinesin our lives to keep us ready
and keep us looking for, but wealso do those to just keep on
(17:20):
walking the path, whether we'refeeling it or not.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well, and that's a big thing.
I think you just said it there.
I think so often we affiliatethe way we feel with God being
present, and it's not about theway we feel.
Are our eyes opened to see whatGod is doing?
Because we can use our brain,our logic to go, wow, look at
how God is moving right now.
I don't need to feel alleuphoric inside and that's how I
(17:50):
think we're called to see theworld and be.
It's not about just, yeah,feeling some sense of God.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, I think there are times when we can.
Yeah, absolutely, and there aremoments, but it isn't that we
live on a mountaintop all thetime.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, and I think, because we're all created so
different, it's important tokind of think about who we are
and what helps us be in thepresent moment the most, Because
that's where I've oftenexperienced God is when I can be
fully present.
And so for some, I know it'swhen they're riding their
motorcycle, right, I mean theyhave to be present and they feel
the very presence of God, kindof in the rush of trusting God
(18:30):
right as they're going the speedlimit, of course, always down
the highway.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Or just under.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Or just yeah, or just under, and they feel free,
right, and then they reflect onI know a buddy of mine was
telling me I reflect on thefreedom that God gives us when
I'm riding and what does thatmean?
The way I feel the wind, theway I feel so free, with nothing
around me, that is the freedomI'm to be living into, and that
(18:57):
abundant life that God'spromised.
And so what does that look likein my life, in all parts of my
life, to live out that sense offreedom?
Yeah, yeah, not fear.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You know, I want to just go back to again naming
some of these disciplines.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Because I think there are, and one of the things that
I love about both of thesebooks is it doesn't say you have
to do A, b, c, d and then youautomatically get experiences of
God Step by step.
We're different people and thenyou automatically get
experiences of God Step by step.
That we're different people andso there are different things
that will resonate.
But from Richard Foster's book,he talks about the inward
disciplines of meditation, ofprayer, of fasting and study,
(19:38):
but then he talks about outwarddisciplines of simplicity, of
solitude, of submission, ofservice what you were talking
about on the ASP but then alsocorporate disciplines of
confession and worship, ofguidance and celebration, that
we can experience God also inthe times of wondrous joy.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I like the celebration one, so could we
have far more parties here anddo some fun celebrating during
staff meetings.
I'm going to need that list ofspiritual disciplines over there
and I will apply them, findways to apply them to the
mundane in life.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You know, one of the other ones that they name here
is fellowship, which you know isthe churchy word.
That means friendship.
But there is a sense thatanother discipline is putting
ourselves in community.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Because I think there can be times where this past
week a woman came to worship andI just happened to be up in the
front as she walked in with herhusband and we just shared a
hug right there and the huglingered because she's been
(20:54):
facing some hard stuff in herlife and she emailed me later
and said, wow, that just meantso much to just have that extra
sense of someone else's presencein connection, in the middle of
that.
And so I think sometimes we canbe to one another a symbol, a
(21:16):
sign and the very realness ofGod's presence in someone's life
.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Absolutely Not even doing anything, but just being
present with someone during someof the most difficult times of
their life helps them toexperience God.
I know that was a big part forme when my brothers both passed
away just having friends sitwith me, right, we didn't even
need to talk.
There's one thing I have toshare, though, because this has
been something that I've newlydiscovered in my own journey
(21:42):
with God, and reallyexperiencing God is confession,
and confession with God, right,and so, um, you know, when I
look at my life and I reflect onhow I'm living, right, I'm like
, okay, if I'm honest withmyself, I don't really trust you
with my money, because I feelthe need to do a, b and C.
(22:02):
Or I don't really trust youEven with I'm single.
Right, like findingrelationships.
Right, like finding yokingmyself with somebody.
Like God, thanks, but I gotthis right, so I'll give it to
God and then I'll take it back,and so I need to sit down and go
.
Where am I not trusting you?
You know what, god?
I don't trust that you willprovide for me and that you are
(22:27):
a God of abundance.
I don't trust that you willprotect me, and so I have to
find yoke myself to someone elsewho will protect me, because
otherwise I'm finding myselfnaturally and unconsciously
striving to meet my own needs,and we so easily fall into that
(22:49):
when we forget.
And so I begin with confessionbecause, like any relationship,
god wants us to keep it real.
And by doing that, I think,then I created this space where
I'm able to hear God so muchmore beautifully and feel God in
my life and see things that Ineed to change and be more
faithful with and take that leapof faith out there and let God
(23:11):
do what God does right, likerock our world and help us see
just how amazing God is when welive into that.
And so I think a big part, yeah, was confession for me.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, it's interesting, mo, how sometimes
these things, theseconversations, circle back on
themselves, because where westarted is we ended up.
In this place, talking aboutobedience and confession is
really about saying, if I'm notfeeling God, is it because I'm
trying to do life on my own andin sort of confessing God, I
need you, and that in thatconfession it starts to get us
(23:45):
back aligned with what God iswanting to say.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, or even I need you to show me what it is I
really believe about you or whatI really believe about myself.
You know, god revealed to mewhat I really, what I believe
about myself, and you knowbecause so often we live out
these unconscious patterns andso God wants to show us.
You know the way, very good.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah Well, we hope this has been helpful for all of
you.
We didn't give you the ABC hereand then you experienced God,
but we hopefully lifted up someof the disciplines, but also
some of the other practices andjust to keep your radar out,
because God is present, god isreal and are we open to seeing
(24:29):
it work, yeah, and I'd love tohear from you some of your
spiritual practices that mayhave worked to connect you with
God even more, and so pleaseshare those Love to you know.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Glean some of that wisdom from you guys as well.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
If you're interested in the books that I mentioned,
one was Celebration ofDiscipline by Richard J Foster
and the other one the Spirit ofthe Disciplines, by Dallas
Willard.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Next time on Unpacking Truths, the story of
God, holistically, like lookingat the whole story and how all
peoples and all nations are tobe brought to God in a loving
relationship.
And God speaks about.
The sun shines on those youknow who are evil as well as
good.
I, you know, I water, you knowI provide right abundantly.
(25:16):
I love all my children and allI want you to do is love right,
love of me, love of self, sothat you can love others well.
And so if that's what wedefault on, that's our big
number one thing to default on.
I don't think we have the rightto cast out or divide or
separate.
That is very contrary to who weare as believers in Jesus as
(25:42):
our savior.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of Unpacking Truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
Hello listeners and welcome back to another episode
of Unpacking Truths.
We're excited to again beresponding to a question that
one of you submitted, and it's agreat question how do you
experience God personally?
I'm Pastor Kendall and I'mPastor.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Mo.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Unpacking Truths, where we dive deep into
God's timeless truths for ourlives today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Grab your coffee, open your hearts and your minds,
come take this journey with usas we unpack God's timeless
truths for our lives today.
Grab your coffee, open yourhearts and your minds, come,
take this journey with us as weunpack God's truths.
Yeah, so when we think abouthow we experience God, I can
only talk and speak into thisfrom my own context.
Right, okay, and so one of thebiggest ways that I have found
(00:43):
where I've connected to God orfelt the very presence of God
has been really in God's word,because there have been distinct
times in my life where I wasn'tsure what to do, I wasn't sure
what to say, and differentscripture would come up, and so
(01:04):
that was God's spirit reallyguiding me, and I felt that, and
many times I just actually hadthis experience where a
relationship had ended it didn'tend great and I was really
seeking God.
I needed to feel the verypresence of God in this,
(01:26):
presence of God in this, and Iwas hoping God, you know,
allowed me to maybe like smitehim or you know, you know curses
on you or something.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
But as I find a verse for that you know I was.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I was looking, I was like, come on, god, you know
what, what are you going to do?
Wrath down fire on him, youknow.
And as I was praying, I feltGod and what came up was the
scripture regarding loving yourneighbor over and over.
And I was like, ew, no thanks.
(01:53):
Next, yeah, I was like next, andI just kept hearing in my heart
tell him my truth, just howloved he is, and I thought this
has got to be the worst thingGod has asked me to do.
I wanted to go throat punch himpersonally, but apparently God
(02:14):
wanted me to speak truth intohow loved he was.
Right, because hurt people hurtpeople.
And so, you know, obviouslythere was some insecurities,
some things going on within himwhere he didn't feel loved.
And so I found myself as Icontinued to pray and wrestle
with this and didn't want to dothat.
(02:35):
Then what came into my heart wasa scripture where Jesus was
saying if you have anythingagainst your brother, leave the
temple, get out of worship, goand make things right before you
come back in the house of God.
And that then to me was Godsaying how can you live into who
I've called you to be as apastor and leading worship when
(02:57):
you're not even listening to thelove that I've called you to be
in the world.
And so, instead of doing what Ihad otherwise wanted to do, I
ended up going and giving thisperson that had actually hurt me
pretty bad a Bible andhighlighted verses speaking into
(03:17):
how loved he was, just for whohe was, not because of what he's
done or accomplished, notbecause of what he's done or
accomplished.
And I was faithful in that.
And I would never have gottento that conclusion of
experiencing God and hearingfrom God had I not already known
some of the scriptures.
So that is exactly how Godguided me, was through his word
(03:41):
and does it all the time I'llhear.
Be quick to listen and slow tospeak right when I'm talking
with my mom or someone else whocan I don't know, kind of
trigger me get me, you know,trigger me, get me from one to
15 really quickly.
God's Word just comes and speaksinto my heart and my mind, and
it's through Scripture.
(04:01):
It really is moving andbreathing.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know, one of the things that strikes me out of
that story and sort of almostseries of stories, mo is
sometimes I think we canexperience God most clearly or
most powerfully when we're atour weakest when we're hurting
when we're realizing we've sortof come to the end of our own
strength, that sometimes thatmakes us more moldable, more
(04:27):
ready to listen even though youreally didn't want to listen to
what you had to hear.
God had to say.
But I do think sometimes in ourbrokenness we can experience
God in ways that when we'restrong and going forward we are
like, yeah, I'd like a littleGod on the side, but it is in
our.
You know, paul keeps saying inmy weakness I am strong.
(04:48):
You know where God says mygrace is sufficient that
sometimes we experience God'sgrace in our weakest, or we
experience God's guidance mostclearly when we're most wanting
to go this way.
God sends us the other way.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, and you know what.
But the beauty of it was thatafter I had done that right Like
after I had been faithful tothat and dropped this off and
had a beautiful note with it aswell I felt the peace of God
right, that past understanding,I felt at peace.
Finally, I felt good.
I'm still dealing with hurt,but at the same time I felt just
(05:28):
a sense of peace instead ofanxiety that I was feeling prior
and that was me experiencingGod and some of those promises.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well and there's another interesting point in
that, mo that some of that peacecomes out of obedience.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That when we are obedient to God and to what he
is calling us to, even if it'ssurprising things and hard
things, there is a peace thatcomes because we know we're
standing in God's will.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You know sometimes.
You know what's the old jokeabout.
You know if you're not, what'sthe old joke about.
You know if you don't sense Godclose.
Who moved.
Oh right, you know we sometimesthink God moved away from us.
Well, maybe it's.
We've moved away from Godbecause we're acting in our own
will, doing our own thing.
When we are obedient, we willsense God closer because we have
(06:20):
started to align ourselves withwhat God is saying to us?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yes, and I do believe that it's like so.
Scripture says that God isalways with us, never leaves us,
is before us, is behind us, isbeside us.
But I think you're very right.
I think something happens whenwe're obedient and we don't
listen to our feelings, butinstead follow what God has
called us to do and how God'scalled us to live, and we open
(06:45):
ourselves up to being able toexperience God so much more um
in our lives.
So I think that, yeah, I agreewith you there, definitely.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Um, well, and I love this, we, we always talk a
little bit ahead.
Uh, listeners, you know withwhere this is going, but then
things come up.
We didn't talk about that piecethat God just took us there.
So let me just share a coupleof the places where I've
experienced God personally in mylife as well.
For me, as a kid growing up andin my grade school and high
(07:19):
school and even college yearsand beyond, it wasn't worship,
it was in times of worship,through the preaching, that I
would sometimes.
I did this thing as a kid and Idon't know that I did it, but
we had a pastor who I grew up,who was my pastor, was a good
(07:39):
preacher, a good communicator,and I remember as a kid sitting
in the pew and just reallyzeroing in and really hearing
from him what felt like Godspeaking into my life and in
ways that, like the rest of theeverything faded and I was just
focused in on that moment, andso I experienced God through the
words that you know, pastorLuking, pastor.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Dean.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Luking great work man , shout out, shout out
Appreciated it and it reallysensed he was trying to bring
God's word and speak it into mylife.
So in preaching on retreatssome high school retreats, but
also our E3 retreat here havebeen moments where I've
experienced God speaking truthinto my life.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And what do you think it is about those retreats,
though?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Oh, I think you know it's the classic.
You know we're often sofrazzled in our busy world.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And there is something and I say it to folks
who go on the E3 retreat yougive God 48 hours of undivided
attention.
It's not that God needs theattention, Right, it's that
we're putting the other stuff tothe side and so we're actually
in a place where we can listen.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Absolutely Well.
Leviticus 10 speaks into Godsaying I must be glorified.
And so we are to craft ourlives in a way where we give God
our first right, Our time, ourattention.
You know we so often, I think,forget to invite God.
God's there, right, but I wantto invite you into my day, I
(09:14):
want you with me.
When we're in relationships wewant to know our partner wants
to be with us, or our friends,the people we're with, and God
wants that as well.
Right, Like, come into my day,into my morning, everything I do
.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Well and Mo.
I think that's a perfect segueinto part of what I wanted to
lift up today.
For experiencing God personally.
One of the things that I wasreminded of I don't know 20-some
years ago is there was thiswhole movement of reclaiming
spiritual disciplines by peoplelike Richard J Foster and Dallas
(09:54):
Willard, with the spirit of thedisciplines acknowledging that
there are disciplines in ourlives, disciplines of worship,
of devotional time, of readingscripture, of prayer, of
meditation, but also other sortsof disciplines that help us
that when we practice them ashabits and habits sound like bad
(10:16):
things, but practicaldisciplines we're opening
ourselves up to looking for God,we're opening ourselves to
hearing and sensing God ratherthan just running through our
day and Not in just missing themoments where God shows up.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
What are some disciplines that you have
applied to your life, that whereyou have experienced God?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You know, one of the and this may sound like the
simplest, foolish, most foolishlittle thing, but for me one of
the most constant disciplines,probably the two most constant
disciplines of my life, are one,worship, but secondly, prayer
before meals disciplinesprobably the two most constant
disciplines of my life are one,worship, but secondly, prayer
before meals.
And for me those aren'tperfunctory moments.
(11:03):
Those are moments where Iactually am stopping in the
middle of my day, whether I'mwith a group of people or I'm by
myself, and I just am thankingGod for this moment, for this
day, and it's just a momentwhere I'm pausing and just sort
of going thank you and I'm opento you, lord.
(11:23):
And so those are a couple ofthe disciplines.
I mean there are others that Iuse as well, taking some time in
devotional, in prayer, in themoment, in various moments, but
those have been probably two ofthe most constant in my life.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, well, I found just coming off of this.
I just came off of a missiontrip.
For those who don't know, itwas an Appalachia service
project.
We're in Virginia and we werehelping work on homes.
And that's proof that God'sspirit works in and through us,
because I was up there helpingreplace a roof with a team of
women and you know we can do allthings through Christ, who
(12:06):
gives us strength and we did agreat job.
But I, you know, I reallyexperienced the presence of God
when we got to talk to thehomeowner.
She was in her forties, she isin her 40s, she has a
debilitating disease where she'sin a wheelchair now and it's an
electric wheelchair and shewould wheel out every morning
and just sit there in the hotsun and be with us and she was
(12:30):
just so filled with joy to bewith us and she would share her
life and about her daughter anddifferent struggles she's had,
but always circling back to justhow grateful she is and how.
How can you not believe in a God?
Look at you, beautiful women onmy roof, um, helping helping my
home, um, so that it no longerleaks.
And like the roof no longer isleaking, and I was just like my
(12:53):
mind was just.
I just felt God like saying tome do you see me?
Like do we take the time to seeGod in all things?
Like she could have been upsetI'm in this wheelchair, you
ladies are taking forever on myroof like all this different
stuff.
She could have looked at it somany different ways, but she had
a godly perspective and andit's because she herself every
(13:18):
morning she spent time with Godand it really helped structure
her day.
But in our encounter with herwe just felt God at work, in the
way our stories would connectand we were able to relate in
different ways and share wisdomand how God worked in our life,
through relationships or ourchildren or all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, and that's where I think, experiencing God
personally, some of it isputting those.
You could miss those moments ifyou aren't tuned into those
moments.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Absolutely.
The present moment is keybecause we could have easily
been distracted and we were attimes right, right up on that
roof Like I got to get this done.
I don't have time to come downthere.
You know, I'm going to workthrough my break or lunch, when
it was like God so often callsus to, so much more.
If we would just lift our headsup from our cell phones or stop
(14:10):
and and ask God what do youwant me to do right in this
moment?
Right, not my agenda, not mytask list, but what are you
calling me to do?
And that's where we experienceGod, when we're open to that and
we surrender to that in oureveryday lives.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And that, to me, is what the disciplines do, is they
begin to shape us to be peoplewho are open, listening, looking
for the ways that God iswanting to be present, expecting
, expecting, expecting God tomove and work.
You know one of the otherthings that you know.
When I was reflecting on thisquestion over the last week,
(14:46):
remember that one of the thingsin my teenage and 20s teenage
years and 20s one of the thingsthat shaped where I experienced
God's touch and presence wasalso through Christian
literature of reading.
And the reading authors like CSLewis, Walt Wangeren, Frederick
(15:10):
Buechner.
There was just that they imbuedtheir writings, their
narratives, with God moments andgrace moments in ways that in
seeing it written or seeing itin someone else's story, I then
(15:30):
was looking for it in my ownstory.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It's Jesus, it's parables, it's storytelling.
We know who we are throughstory, we know who we're called
to be through story, we knowwhat God is doing through story
and it's so powerful, and Ithink that's why sharing our
stories, too, is an incredibleway to experience God.
But we have to be open andvulnerable enough and trust God
(15:54):
enough to share our stories.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And Absolutely, absolutely.
You know, it also strikes me,mo, as we're talking about this
and the reason this personprobably sent in this question,
is because they're maybestruggling to experience God
personally, and I think it'simportant for us to acknowledge
it's not that, you know, becauseMo and I are pastors, we
(16:19):
experience God moments every day, all day.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I'm on the mountaintop every single day.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It isn't like that.
Sarcasm and I think we'vetalked about this in an earlier
podcast, but, mother Teresa,when they discovered some of her
writings after her death howmuch she struggled to experience
a sense of Christ's presence inher life.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Wasn't it?
It was like over 10 years.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
It was an extended period of time.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
She didn't feel the presence of God and yet every
day she got up and did nothingbut serve the community of
Kolkata, India, in incredibleways that transformed that
culture over there.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And so I think it is a reminder that it's not that
we've experienced God Jesus warmand fuzzies every moment of
every day.
We don't that.
We do disciplines.
We adopt different disciplinesin our lives to keep us ready
and keep us looking for, but wealso do those to just keep on
(17:20):
walking the path, whether we'refeeling it or not.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Well, and that's a big thing.
I think you just said it there.
I think so often we affiliatethe way we feel with God being
present, and it's not about theway we feel.
Are our eyes opened to see whatGod is doing?
Because we can use our brain,our logic to go, wow, look at
how God is moving right now.
I don't need to feel alleuphoric inside and that's how I
(17:50):
think we're called to see theworld and be.
It's not about just, yeah,feeling some sense of God.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, I think there are times when we can.
Yeah, absolutely, and there aremoments, but it isn't that we
live on a mountaintop all thetime.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, and I think, because we're all created so
different, it's important tokind of think about who we are
and what helps us be in thepresent moment the most, Because
that's where I've oftenexperienced God is when I can be
fully present.
And so for some, I know it'swhen they're riding their
motorcycle, right, I mean theyhave to be present and they feel
the very presence of God, kindof in the rush of trusting God
(18:30):
right as they're going the speedlimit, of course, always down
the highway.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Or just under.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Or just yeah, or just under, and they feel free,
right, and then they reflect onI know a buddy of mine was
telling me I reflect on thefreedom that God gives us when
I'm riding and what does thatmean?
The way I feel the wind, theway I feel so free, with nothing
around me, that is the freedomI'm to be living into, and that
(18:57):
abundant life that God'spromised.
And so what does that look likein my life, in all parts of my
life, to live out that sense offreedom?
Yeah, yeah, not fear.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You know, I want to just go back to again naming
some of these disciplines.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Because I think there are, and one of the things that
I love about both of thesebooks is it doesn't say you have
to do A, b, c, d and then youautomatically get experiences of
God Step by step.
We're different people and thenyou automatically get
experiences of God Step by step.
That we're different people andso there are different things
that will resonate.
But from Richard Foster's book,he talks about the inward
disciplines of meditation, ofprayer, of fasting and study,
(19:38):
but then he talks about outwarddisciplines of simplicity, of
solitude, of submission, ofservice what you were talking
about on the ASP but then alsocorporate disciplines of
confession and worship, ofguidance and celebration, that
we can experience God also inthe times of wondrous joy.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I like the celebration one, so could we
have far more parties here anddo some fun celebrating during
staff meetings.
I'm going to need that list ofspiritual disciplines over there
and I will apply them, findways to apply them to the
mundane in life.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You know, one of the other ones that they name here
is fellowship, which you know isthe churchy word.
That means friendship.
But there is a sense thatanother discipline is putting
ourselves in community.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Because I think there can be times where this past
week a woman came to worship andI just happened to be up in the
front as she walked in with herhusband and we just shared a
hug right there and the huglingered because she's been
(20:54):
facing some hard stuff in herlife and she emailed me later
and said, wow, that just meantso much to just have that extra
sense of someone else's presencein connection, in the middle of
that.
And so I think sometimes we canbe to one another a symbol, a
(21:16):
sign and the very realness ofGod's presence in someone's life
.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Absolutely Not even doing anything, but just being
present with someone during someof the most difficult times of
their life helps them toexperience God.
I know that was a big part forme when my brothers both passed
away just having friends sitwith me, right, we didn't even
need to talk.
There's one thing I have toshare, though, because this has
been something that I've newlydiscovered in my own journey
(21:42):
with God, and reallyexperiencing God is confession,
and confession with God, right,and so, um, you know, when I
look at my life and I reflect onhow I'm living, right, I'm like
, okay, if I'm honest withmyself, I don't really trust you
with my money, because I feelthe need to do a, b and C.
(22:02):
Or I don't really trust youEven with I'm single.
Right, like findingrelationships.
Right, like finding yokingmyself with somebody.
Like God, thanks, but I gotthis right, so I'll give it to
God and then I'll take it back,and so I need to sit down and go
.
Where am I not trusting you?
You know what, god?
I don't trust that you willprovide for me and that you are
(22:27):
a God of abundance.
I don't trust that you willprotect me, and so I have to
find yoke myself to someone elsewho will protect me, because
otherwise I'm finding myselfnaturally and unconsciously
striving to meet my own needs,and we so easily fall into that
(22:49):
when we forget.
And so I begin with confessionbecause, like any relationship,
god wants us to keep it real.
And by doing that, I think,then I created this space where
I'm able to hear God so muchmore beautifully and feel God in
my life and see things that Ineed to change and be more
faithful with and take that leapof faith out there and let God
(23:11):
do what God does right, likerock our world and help us see
just how amazing God is when welive into that.
And so I think a big part, yeah, was confession for me.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, it's interesting, mo, how sometimes
these things, theseconversations, circle back on
themselves, because where westarted is we ended up.
In this place, talking aboutobedience and confession is
really about saying, if I'm notfeeling God, is it because I'm
trying to do life on my own andin sort of confessing God, I
need you, and that in thatconfession it starts to get us
(23:45):
back aligned with what God iswanting to say.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, or even I need you to show me what it is I
really believe about you or whatI really believe about myself.
You know, god revealed to mewhat I really, what I believe
about myself, and you knowbecause so often we live out
these unconscious patterns andso God wants to show us.
You know the way, very good.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah Well, we hope this has been helpful for all of
you.
We didn't give you the ABC hereand then you experienced God,
but we hopefully lifted up someof the disciplines, but also
some of the other practices andjust to keep your radar out,
because God is present, god isreal and are we open to seeing
(24:29):
it work, yeah, and I'd love tohear from you some of your
spiritual practices that mayhave worked to connect you with
God even more, and so pleaseshare those Love to you know.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Glean some of that wisdom from you guys as well.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
If you're interested in the books that I mentioned,
one was Celebration ofDiscipline by Richard J Foster
and the other one the Spirit ofthe Disciplines, by Dallas
Willard.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Next time on Unpacking Truths, the story of
God, holistically, like lookingat the whole story and how all
peoples and all nations are tobe brought to God in a loving
relationship.
And God speaks about.
The sun shines on those youknow who are evil as well as
good.
I, you know, I water, you knowI provide right abundantly.
(25:16):
I love all my children and allI want you to do is love right,
love of me, love of self, sothat you can love others well.
And so if that's what wedefault on, that's our big
number one thing to default on.
I don't think we have the rightto cast out or divide or
separate.
That is very contrary to who weare as believers in Jesus as
(25:42):
our savior.
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of Unpacking Truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
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