October 15, 2024 • 25 mins
Ever felt the burden of pride or struggled to control a sharp tongue? You're not alone. Join Pastor Kendall and me, Pastor Mo, as we share personal tales of scripture's profound influence on our lives. Kendall reflects on his upbringing in a Lutheran community, where humility and responsibility were deeply woven into his fabric, thanks to teachings from Proverbs and Luke. Meanwhile, my journey through the teachings of Psalm 141:3 and James 1:19 sheds light on how scripture can be a guiding force in taming one's speech and temper.
Together, we explore the transformative power of biblical metaphors, focusing on the tender imagery from Isaiah that redefines our understanding of God as a comforting parent and partner. We challenge traditional notions with Isaiah 56's evolving perspective on inclusivity, offering a more open stance on love and acceptance. Our conversation aims to showcase the scriptures as living, dynamic texts that comfort, challenge, and ultimately reshape our perception of love, belonging, and faith. So grab your coffee, open your hearts, and join us as we unpack these timeless truths.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So we want to thank you for joining us, those who
are listening and those who arewatching us.
Pastor Kendall and I are goingto be diving deep today into
scriptures that have been lifetransformative for us on a
personal level, and so we knowthat the Bible is moving and
breathing and worked in ourlives in some pretty incredible
ways, and so we're excited toshare these stories with you
(00:22):
today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm Pastor Kendall and I'm Pastor.
Mo.
Welcome to Unpacking Truths,where we dive deep into God's
timeless truths for our livestoday.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Grab your coffee.
Open your hearts and your minds.
Come take this journey with us,as we unpack God's truths.
Kendall, why don't you kick usoff?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, mo, as we were talking about this, we were
talking a little bit about howwe grew up with Scripture, and
so I want to start there thatfor me, I really grew up in an
experience where I was cocooned,I like to say, within the
church.
I grew up where my dad was aLutheran school teacher and then
(01:05):
principal, and we attended thatchurch.
So I went to a Lutheran gradeschool, both on my parents' side
.
Their families were all veryactive in the church.
So I really grew up cocoonedwithin a Christian community,
and so scripture was just alwaysaround, and didn't you go?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
to a Christian high school too.
Oh yeah, I, and didn't you goto like a Christian high school
too?
Oh yeah, I went to a Lutherangrade school, lutheran high
school, lutheran collegeLutheran seminary straight
through.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So I like to say if anyone was brainwashed in
Lutheranism it was me.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Him and Martin Luther are like this tight.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, yeah, really, we were buds, but part of what
that did, though, is I meanpeople, some people who have had
that experience really feltrepressed by it, or oppressed by
it, or like, oh, I had to, Ididn't experience it like that,
it felt like put upon them.
No, yeah, mine felt.
It felt a wonderful, safe place.
(02:01):
It was a place that encouragedme to grow and develop.
So there was a sense that whenI was exposed to scripture, I
radiated towards it, I was drawnto it because it felt
life-giving.
It seemed to be the foundationthat all the people around me
were living their lives, andtheir lives looked pretty good
to me.
So it made sense.
(02:22):
So I want to share just twothat well, share one.
I'll start with one that Iheard my grandpa say a lot.
Okay, a verse from Proverbs,and I heard my grandpa say it a
lot.
His favorite verse was pridegoes before the fall.
And my mom would like to saythat my grandpa was proud of his
(02:44):
humility, but he was one whowas like well, you don't put
yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
There's irony in that .
There's huge irony in that.
Huge irony in that.
Let me boast about how humble Iam, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
But for me that was a scripture that, as I saw him
live his life, I saw in myfamily that shaped me and that
it was like you didn't putyourself forward and say, well,
I'm the best, because when youstarted doing that sort of that
bravado, that showmanship, well,you're bound to go falling off,
you're bound to have a mistake.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So you're like did you think about it, though, as
in your teen years?
Like I might boast.
I should boast.
Right now I want to boast, butI'm too nervous I might fall
afterwards.
You know, I think it was bythat point it was just in my
bones You're competitive, oh,I'm very competitive, absolutely
.
I can see you being like yeah,right there, take it, oh Doyle's
rule, like one of those things.
(03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
No, for me it was like, yeah, you push so hard to
win, but then you didn't.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
You didn't but then you like go over and you did a
great job Exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly what itwas, because you don't want to
get puffed up, because thatwon't that'll mess you up You're
, you're setting yourself up forfailure.
So so that was one that itwasn't sort of life-changing
down the road, but it was verylife-shaping early on.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Okay, that's cool.
What was another one?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You said you had two.
Yeah, the other one is one thatI heard my mom quote a lot and
I actually thought it was in adifferent place.
Scripture, but the one my momLuke 12, 48, from everyone to
whom much has been given, muchwill be required.
To whom much is given, much isrequired.
And that was very much, in someways, a scripture that shaped
(04:29):
myself, my brother, my sister,our family's life.
That my mom would just say, hey, god's given you a lot, make
something of it.
So there was this huge sense ofexpectations to not just take
stuff for granted, not to takeit easy, that you pushed hard,
(04:50):
you worked hard, you studiedhard, because God has given you
these reasons.
God's given you a good family,so push forward with that.
God has given you a good mind,so be good.
In school there was always thissense of to whom much is given,
much is expected.
So it probably was some of theold school Protestant work ethic
sort of thing, but it was alsojust—.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And did she then give you your list of chores after
she told you that Probably thatmay have been the lead into that
.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It might have been.
She may have played that cardonce or twice, but it really
just set for my siblings and I,I think this high standard that
we're called to do the best withwhat we have.
But also but it also wasn'tjust about us because we also
saw in our parents' lives ofservice to others.
So there was this sense ifyou've been given a lot, you
(05:39):
also need to make an impact inthe world.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So you felt this sense of accountability that you
had to live out of.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I've been blessed, and now how do I use that to
bless?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
others yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, cool.
So what about you?
What's?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
a scripture too, that it shaped you or changed you.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah well, there's lots, but you know, pastor
Kendall and I kind of talkedabout the difference between him
being cocooned right in thiswhole Lutheran Christian
upbringing and you know I wasEpiscopalian Irish Catholic
right A lot of my family mostlyIrish Catholic, so we were kind
of Christers for the most part,like we went on Christmas and
(06:15):
Easter and funerals and weddings.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
There you go, all the essentials.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, but growing up I did go to a Lutheran school
because the Catholic kids lookedsad.
They looked more sad than theLutheran ones.
So off to the Lutheran school Iwent, and they actually sent me
there, just because in thepublic school there were 30
young boys and two girls.
Oh boy.
So, they were like, and off tothe parochial school you go, and
(06:40):
so yeah, so I remember, youknow, thinking that God was
there and yet not really lookingat Scripture like it was
anything that was powerful orimpactful.
And maybe that was because myupbringing in the Lutheran
school was Missouri Synodnothing against Missouri Synod,
(07:01):
but there is a place and a spacefor women, and I remember that
really being pushed along withsome other things that I didn't
agree with when I was youngerand didn't make sense with, hey,
this is who God is.
And then so it just didn't makesense.
They could never answer thequestions the way I thought they
should be.
That felt right.
So it wasn't until later inlife that I really started
(07:26):
trusting scripture, reading it,kind of challenging God with it
and using it to better myself.
Like God, if you are who yousay you are, and this word is
real and it moves and breatheslike let's do it, let's see,
show me right.
And so it was almost that kindof approach and I have been.
(07:48):
I don't know if it's gifted andor just I have a very sharp
tongue right and it's.
You've shared that with me.
Yeah, so I can say things thatcan be incredibly hurtful.
I'm quick-witted with it andyet I know how impactful words
are.
So some of the first scriptureI dived into had to do with the
way I speak with others, right,and so some pretty big ones.
(08:11):
For me was Psalm 141.3,.
Take control of what I say, oLord, and guard my lips, and I
literally pray that one still.
Whenever someone is talking andI know it's about to come, I
feel it bubbling up inside and.
I'm like, oh, take control, lord, guard my lips.
(08:32):
And so you know there's thatone.
And then, out of James 1, 19,be quick to listen and slow to
speak, slow to become angry,because human anger does not
produce what God desires.
And so, just recentering myselfwith that and once again I use
that even while people arespeaking, and I know it's about
to come, like I'm about, youknow, it rises up in me.
(08:53):
Right, there's such a when wedon't know who we are in Christ,
it's so natural to want todefend ourselves.
And so I think that thescripture just helps me to know,
like, what this person issaying and what this person
thinks about you in this momentdoes not define who you are, and
you know, I'll tell you who youare, right, god's saying to us,
(09:16):
I'll tell you who you are right, god's saying to us, I'll tell
you.
And so these kind of helprecenter me to that truth and
keep my mouth shut.
I think the Holy Spirit just itis nothing less than a miracle
that my mouth stays shutsometimes.
Trust me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
You know, mo, as you were saying that, you know we
came from very differentexperiences or backgrounds but
have both found the power inScripture to shape us.
And you're right, it is aliving word.
I've never seen it as sort oflike dusty old stuff.
I mean, yeah, I'm intriguedwith the historical, but I
really read it to hear God speak.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And one of the other ways, though, that God has used
his word to really shape andmold my life and I talked about
this in a men's event a year agois that for me, it's not just
individual verses of scripturethat do that, but it's also
figures from scripture that Ioften look at going like oh boy,
(10:14):
kendall, you're in a Jonahmoment.
You are scared with where God'scalling you and you want to run
the other way.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And you know, and so for me.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I have often looked at my life through those you
know, through a Jonah moment oran Elijah moment, or a Moses
moment or a David moment, andand and so the women?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You didn't name any women.
Where are my Deborahs?
Maybe Esther, as a queen, Ihave power, and how am I going
to use it?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
For such a time as this, absolutely with Esther,
and that has been a powerful onefor me to go like.
Hold it.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Maybe I'm called to this at this moment and God's
positioned me here in the waythat he positioned Esther, and
it's not always comfortableright, and you're risking your
life in that moment.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
She was scared out of her wits in that moment, but
she stepped up to the plateprofoundly so.
For me that's also the power ofscripture.
How God has used it to shapeand mold me and change me, is to
just give me the lens of thosebiblical figures.
So that's where I just alwayssay to people first thing to do
if you're not familiar with theBible, rather than starting at
(11:19):
the beginning and just trying toread through and everyone will
get bogged down in Leviticus, gograb a children's Bible and
read through that.
Great pictures Read through onethat just tells all the stories,
because those stories are sopowerful and those begin to
shape.
I mean the David and Goliath,all of those things are just
profound ways that God can useto speak, and continues to speak
(11:44):
into my life today and changeme.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , it's reading the Old Testament
.
I love it.
I think we should just tellpeople like, skip Leviticus.
Yeah Well, I don't thinkthere's any issues with skipping
over some of that stuff, butreally seeing your, I love that.
You said you talk about seeingyourself, right.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
In the story.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And I think that's what, that's why it's so
divinely inspired because we docome and those stories come to
our mind right when we need themmost to help shape us.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
We believe that's the Holy Spirit.
It's what I was talking abouton Sunday, I think, prompting us
or bringing passages to mindfor that.
You know there is also for me,and I'm not always sure why, but
some of the poetry in Scripture, some of the ways that things
are or the metaphors that areused.
(12:34):
There is one metaphor in theOld Testament that is just
buried in Isaiah.
Isaiah 40 to 55 is some of myfavorite section.
But in this line about sort ofthe coming Messiah, the one God
will send, isaiah uses thisphrase a bruised reed he will
not break and a dimly burningwick he will not quench.
(12:59):
And there is that when I readthat verse and I knew it was
part of some of the pointingforward to the messianic
promises and pointing forward toJesus that that is one of those
verses that continues to shapeme, to see the tenderness of
Jesus to that dimly burning wickthat has shaped.
(13:19):
When God puts people in frontof me as a pastor but also just
as a guy, that I want to treateach person possibly as a dimly
burning wick and I don't want tobe the one to squelch that out.
Right that there may be abruised reed, and my words, if
I'm not careful with them, couldsnap them over Absolutely.
(13:41):
And so it has really led me tosee the tenderness of Jesus and
that call inside of me to treatothers with a sense of care and
tenderness as well.
So that's one of the versesalso, that just that image, that
metaphor just is so powerful inme, and I'm not sure why, but
it just resonated for me.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I love that and I see , when you talked about it, when
I heard it, I almost thought ofit more so in alignment with
like a loving father which isprobably needed, like a loving
parent.
And when you talk about Isaiah,there's so many beautiful images
of God as mother as well, right, this mother who feeds all her
children and brings them to herbreast and protects them, and so
(14:24):
just some really powerfulmetaphors that can be life
transforming, especially inrelationships with others.
And as we talk aboutrelationships with others, I
remember coming across thisscripture when I was married and
ironically it speaks into Godbeing our husband.
(14:44):
So, as a woman, from a femaleperspective, it came out of
Isaiah as well 54.5,.
For your maker is your husband.
The Lord Almighty is his name.
The one of Israel, the Holy Oneof Israel, is your Redeemer.
And so to me that was sopowerful, because I think
sometimes as a woman, as a wife,unconsciously we want our
(15:08):
husbands, or expect our husbands, to become our redeemer, right,
like?
You're supposed to make me feelbeautiful, you're supposed to
make me feel protected, you'resupposed to, you know, make sure
we're financially okay and I'msaying most of the time it's
unconscious, right and ourhusband, people, humans, we all
(15:30):
lack some things, we all havecharacter flaws, and so I think
sometimes we can be, as husbands, I'm sure, get frustrated with
their wives.
We can get frustrated, and Ithink for me it was a beautiful
reminder that I already have asavior and the one who will know
, the one who will save and theone who will redeem me all the
time and and make me feelbeautiful and make me feel
(15:51):
protected and remind me thatI'll be cared for, is God and so
powerful?
Yeah, and it's.
And I've really, you know,brought that scripture up to
other women too, as they'regoing through some difficulties
with their, their husbands.
Um, because it's not fair alsoto their husbands.
Right for us to put that onbroken humanity, that you're
(16:13):
supposed to, and it's nothealthy, because then we give
our power away.
I'm giving my power to someoneelse who is broken, you know,
and comes out of this contextwhere we're not perfect, we're
not whole.
We all come out of our ownstuff and so, yeah, we put it in
the right place, back with God.
God has that power.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I love that, mo, and I think that's, you know, just a
beautiful and powerful verse of.
and those are the places whereyou know we experience God's
Word speaking deep into thoselongings in our hearts, those
holes in our hearts, those hurtsin our hearts, and that's the
power of God's word and that'swhy you and I both love it,
(16:55):
that's why we want other peopleto spend time in it and in all
the variety of ways that theycan, through devotionals,
through scripture, becauseScripture can comfort us,
scripture can challenge us, youknow, to keep our mouth shut.
Or you know, in James, humbleyourself.
I've had to take that one andhear God speak to me through
(17:19):
that one at different times.
But also Scripture has at times.
I know I've had the experienceand I'll share one where I've
come upon Scriptures that Ihadn't seen before and it has
sometimes reshaped some of mythinking and I've got one of
(17:41):
those I want to share and youknow I wrestled throughout my
quote, unquote career as apastor, trying to understand the
issues around homosexuality inScripture, and because there's
(18:03):
so much in scripture that speaksclearly, speaks against that,
and so I really struggled withit.
I was drawn with the compassionof Jesus for the welcome of all,
but I also struggled with thetension of the scriptures of
that, and probably five, sevenyears ago I stumbled upon these
verses in Isaiah, chapter 56,and that really that shaped my
(18:31):
view in a different way, andI'll just read that.
It says do not let theforeigner join to the Lord, say
the Lord will surely separate mefrom his people, and do not let
the eunuch say I am just a drytree.
For thus says the Lord to theeunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose the things thatplease me and hold fast to my
covenant, I will give in myhouse and within my walls a
(18:53):
monument in a name better thansons and daughters.
I will give them an everlastingname that shall not be cut off.
Thus says the Lord.
God who gathers the outcasts ofIsrael, I will gather others to
them besides those alreadygathered.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Wow, that's so powerful.
And that literally speaks intoyeah, who were considered the
outcasts, sexually and withinsociety.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
At that time.
I mean you go back to Leviticus23, and it says if you were
someone who was sexually outsidethe norm, you were excluded
from the temple.
If you were a eunuch, youcouldn't go into the temple.
And so I mean you see that inthe Old Testament, you see it in
places in Paul in the NewTestament, but in this vision in
(19:41):
Isaiah.
Isaiah had this vision that Godwas saying no, there'll come a
time when all are welcomed inthat, those things that you
thought were so crucial.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Or that's God's ideal kingdom right?
Yes, that we pray for.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That are welcomed in.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And so and it came from me one of those scriptures
that said there is a welcome forthose who, uh, maybe, are
different, that have beenexcluded.
And and I I had I'd seen thatin circum.
I mean, you see that in the waythat Jesus kept reaching out to
all the people who are on thefringe, but you never saw that
(20:16):
specifically re regarding thosewho are sexually different.
And yet here in Isaiah Istumbled upon that and it really
was part of the shaping andhelp causing me to look at that
whole idea differently and witha much more open stance and a
welcoming stance.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I love that and you know, as we pray often, right
the Our Father, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as
it is in heaven, and that Isaiahvision is a vision of God's
kingdom, of what it means to seethe beauty of God's creation
and all of diversity and to knowthat God is so loving beyond
(20:57):
our understanding and sayingmake a space that's welcoming
and open and seeks to have arelationship with all of us.
And that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Is there a scripture that, along the way that there?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
are so many scriptures.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You want to share one more?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, I'll share one more, and this one I often use
it to kind of Apparently I haveto be checked often because I'm
like it usually has to do withother people and me kind of like
quenching my ego a bit, but itcomes out of Philippians 2, 3.
And me kind of like quenchingmy ego a bit, but it comes out
of Philippians 2, 3.
Don't be selfish, don't try toimpress others, be humble, don't
think of yourself as betterthan others, and that's so
(21:35):
important to me because you know, especially depending on who's
talking, and you know if you'rearguing with your kids or
whatever, going back and forth,of course, you think, not that
(22:11):
you think you're better, but youdefinitely think you're right,
and so you know that back andforth.
And what does it mean for me tonot?
I think it's so important,especially this one.
What does it mean for me to nottry to use language that maybe
is hyperbolic, or try to makemyself look better or defend
myself, even right?
Like these people whoever I'mwith there, it's God sees them
with the same passion and loveand desire, like they are just
as valued as an important to God, and so that helps my
perspective.
And like how I talk to othersor treat them or, um, or learn
from them, like open up myselfenough even to be like because
there's so many times when I'velet that drop that that person
(22:33):
has transformed me in somepretty big, powerful ways,
because I was able to finallyget out of my own head and
listen to them and hear them,and so that was really powerful
for me.
And I think just even inscripture you talk about the big
story and I see Godcontinuously working through
those we are so often mostuncomfortable with to bring us
(22:57):
to a space of healing and adeeper connection with God, and
that's kind of how I think Godworks.
So, yeah, it's pretty powerful.
So I thank you so much for justsharing that journey and we
hope, um, we know that all ofyou listening as well come from
different backgrounds, right?
Whether it's like pastorKendall's or more like mine.
We'd love to hear you sharesome pretty powerful scripture
(23:19):
that has impacted your life, orbig stories or characters.
Please leave a comment.
Share, share this If you thinkanyone else can get something
good out of it as we continue tounpack these truths, and don't
forget to submit some questionsIf you have any questions you'd
like us to unpack and talk alittle bit about and dive deeper
into.
So take care and thank you fortuning in.
(23:41):
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of unpacking truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
, or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
So we want to thank you for joining us, those who
are listening and those who arewatching us.
Pastor Kendall and I are goingto be diving deep today into
scriptures that have been lifetransformative for us on a
personal level, and so we knowthat the Bible is moving and
breathing and worked in ourlives in some pretty incredible
ways, and so we're excited toshare these stories with you
(00:22):
today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm Pastor Kendall and I'm Pastor.
Mo.
Welcome to Unpacking Truths,where we dive deep into God's
timeless truths for our livestoday.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Grab your coffee.
Open your hearts and your minds.
Come take this journey with us,as we unpack God's truths.
Kendall, why don't you kick usoff?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, mo, as we were talking about this, we were
talking a little bit about howwe grew up with Scripture, and
so I want to start there thatfor me, I really grew up in an
experience where I was cocooned,I like to say, within the
church.
I grew up where my dad was aLutheran school teacher and then
(01:05):
principal, and we attended thatchurch.
So I went to a Lutheran gradeschool, both on my parents' side
.
Their families were all veryactive in the church.
So I really grew up cocoonedwithin a Christian community,
and so scripture was just alwaysaround, and didn't you go?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
to a Christian high school too.
Oh yeah, I, and didn't you goto like a Christian high school
too?
Oh yeah, I went to a Lutherangrade school, lutheran high
school, lutheran collegeLutheran seminary straight
through.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So I like to say if anyone was brainwashed in
Lutheranism it was me.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Him and Martin Luther are like this tight.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, yeah, really, we were buds, but part of what
that did, though, is I meanpeople, some people who have had
that experience really feltrepressed by it, or oppressed by
it, or like, oh, I had to, Ididn't experience it like that,
it felt like put upon them.
No, yeah, mine felt.
It felt a wonderful, safe place.
(02:01):
It was a place that encouragedme to grow and develop.
So there was a sense that whenI was exposed to scripture, I
radiated towards it, I was drawnto it because it felt
life-giving.
It seemed to be the foundationthat all the people around me
were living their lives, andtheir lives looked pretty good
to me.
So it made sense.
(02:22):
So I want to share just twothat well, share one.
I'll start with one that Iheard my grandpa say a lot.
Okay, a verse from Proverbs,and I heard my grandpa say it a
lot.
His favorite verse was pridegoes before the fall.
And my mom would like to saythat my grandpa was proud of his
(02:44):
humility, but he was one whowas like well, you don't put
yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
There's irony in that .
There's huge irony in that.
Huge irony in that.
Let me boast about how humble Iam, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
But for me that was a scripture that, as I saw him
live his life, I saw in myfamily that shaped me and that
it was like you didn't putyourself forward and say, well,
I'm the best, because when youstarted doing that sort of that
bravado, that showmanship, well,you're bound to go falling off,
you're bound to have a mistake.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So you're like did you think about it, though, as
in your teen years?
Like I might boast.
I should boast.
Right now I want to boast, butI'm too nervous I might fall
afterwards.
You know, I think it was bythat point it was just in my
bones You're competitive, oh,I'm very competitive, absolutely
.
I can see you being like yeah,right there, take it, oh Doyle's
rule, like one of those things.
(03:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
No, for me it was like, yeah, you push so hard to
win, but then you didn't.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
You didn't but then you like go over and you did a
great job Exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Exactly.
Yeah, that's exactly what itwas, because you don't want to
get puffed up, because thatwon't that'll mess you up You're
, you're setting yourself up forfailure.
So so that was one that itwasn't sort of life-changing
down the road, but it was verylife-shaping early on.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Okay, that's cool.
What was another one?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
You said you had two.
Yeah, the other one is one thatI heard my mom quote a lot and
I actually thought it was in adifferent place.
Scripture, but the one my momLuke 12, 48, from everyone to
whom much has been given, muchwill be required.
To whom much is given, much isrequired.
And that was very much, in someways, a scripture that shaped
(04:29):
myself, my brother, my sister,our family's life.
That my mom would just say, hey, god's given you a lot, make
something of it.
So there was this huge sense ofexpectations to not just take
stuff for granted, not to takeit easy, that you pushed hard,
(04:50):
you worked hard, you studiedhard, because God has given you
these reasons.
God's given you a good family,so push forward with that.
God has given you a good mind,so be good.
In school there was always thissense of to whom much is given,
much is expected.
So it probably was some of theold school Protestant work ethic
sort of thing, but it was alsojust—.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And did she then give you your list of chores after
she told you that Probably thatmay have been the lead into that
.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It might have been.
She may have played that cardonce or twice, but it really
just set for my siblings and I,I think this high standard that
we're called to do the best withwhat we have.
But also but it also wasn'tjust about us because we also
saw in our parents' lives ofservice to others.
So there was this sense ifyou've been given a lot, you
(05:39):
also need to make an impact inthe world.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So you felt this sense of accountability that you
had to live out of.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
I've been blessed, and now how do I use that to
bless?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
others yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, cool.
So what about you?
What's?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
a scripture too, that it shaped you or changed you.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah well, there's lots, but you know, pastor
Kendall and I kind of talkedabout the difference between him
being cocooned right in thiswhole Lutheran Christian
upbringing and you know I wasEpiscopalian Irish Catholic
right A lot of my family mostlyIrish Catholic, so we were kind
of Christers for the most part,like we went on Christmas and
(06:15):
Easter and funerals and weddings.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
There you go, all the essentials.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, but growing up I did go to a Lutheran school
because the Catholic kids lookedsad.
They looked more sad than theLutheran ones.
So off to the Lutheran school Iwent, and they actually sent me
there, just because in thepublic school there were 30
young boys and two girls.
Oh boy.
So, they were like, and off tothe parochial school you go, and
(06:40):
so yeah, so I remember, youknow, thinking that God was
there and yet not really lookingat Scripture like it was
anything that was powerful orimpactful.
And maybe that was because myupbringing in the Lutheran
school was Missouri Synodnothing against Missouri Synod,
(07:01):
but there is a place and a spacefor women, and I remember that
really being pushed along withsome other things that I didn't
agree with when I was youngerand didn't make sense with, hey,
this is who God is.
And then so it just didn't makesense.
They could never answer thequestions the way I thought they
should be.
That felt right.
So it wasn't until later inlife that I really started
(07:26):
trusting scripture, reading it,kind of challenging God with it
and using it to better myself.
Like God, if you are who yousay you are, and this word is
real and it moves and breatheslike let's do it, let's see,
show me right.
And so it was almost that kindof approach and I have been.
(07:48):
I don't know if it's gifted andor just I have a very sharp
tongue right and it's.
You've shared that with me.
Yeah, so I can say things thatcan be incredibly hurtful.
I'm quick-witted with it andyet I know how impactful words
are.
So some of the first scriptureI dived into had to do with the
way I speak with others, right,and so some pretty big ones.
(08:11):
For me was Psalm 141.3,.
Take control of what I say, oLord, and guard my lips, and I
literally pray that one still.
Whenever someone is talking andI know it's about to come, I
feel it bubbling up inside and.
I'm like, oh, take control, lord, guard my lips.
(08:32):
And so you know there's thatone.
And then, out of James 1, 19,be quick to listen and slow to
speak, slow to become angry,because human anger does not
produce what God desires.
And so, just recentering myselfwith that and once again I use
that even while people arespeaking, and I know it's about
to come, like I'm about, youknow, it rises up in me.
(08:53):
Right, there's such a when wedon't know who we are in Christ,
it's so natural to want todefend ourselves.
And so I think that thescripture just helps me to know,
like, what this person issaying and what this person
thinks about you in this momentdoes not define who you are, and
you know, I'll tell you who youare, right, god's saying to us,
(09:16):
I'll tell you who you are right, god's saying to us, I'll tell
you.
And so these kind of helprecenter me to that truth and
keep my mouth shut.
I think the Holy Spirit just itis nothing less than a miracle
that my mouth stays shutsometimes.
Trust me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
You know, mo, as you were saying that, you know we
came from very differentexperiences or backgrounds but
have both found the power inScripture to shape us.
And you're right, it is aliving word.
I've never seen it as sort oflike dusty old stuff.
I mean, yeah, I'm intriguedwith the historical, but I
really read it to hear God speak.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And one of the other ways, though, that God has used
his word to really shape andmold my life and I talked about
this in a men's event a year agois that for me, it's not just
individual verses of scripturethat do that, but it's also
figures from scripture that Ioften look at going like oh boy,
(10:14):
kendall, you're in a Jonahmoment.
You are scared with where God'scalling you and you want to run
the other way.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And you know, and so for me.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I have often looked at my life through those you
know, through a Jonah moment oran Elijah moment, or a Moses
moment or a David moment, andand and so the women?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
You didn't name any women.
Where are my Deborahs?
Maybe Esther, as a queen, Ihave power, and how am I going
to use it?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
For such a time as this, absolutely with Esther,
and that has been a powerful onefor me to go like.
Hold it.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Maybe I'm called to this at this moment and God's
positioned me here in the waythat he positioned Esther, and
it's not always comfortableright, and you're risking your
life in that moment.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
She was scared out of her wits in that moment, but
she stepped up to the plateprofoundly so.
For me that's also the power ofscripture.
How God has used it to shapeand mold me and change me, is to
just give me the lens of thosebiblical figures.
So that's where I just alwayssay to people first thing to do
if you're not familiar with theBible, rather than starting at
(11:19):
the beginning and just trying toread through and everyone will
get bogged down in Leviticus, gograb a children's Bible and
read through that.
Great pictures Read through onethat just tells all the stories,
because those stories are sopowerful and those begin to
shape.
I mean the David and Goliath,all of those things are just
profound ways that God can useto speak, and continues to speak
(11:44):
into my life today and changeme.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , it's reading the Old Testament
.
I love it.
I think we should just tellpeople like, skip Leviticus.
Yeah Well, I don't thinkthere's any issues with skipping
over some of that stuff, butreally seeing your, I love that.
You said you talk about seeingyourself, right.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
In the story.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And I think that's what, that's why it's so
divinely inspired because we docome and those stories come to
our mind right when we need themmost to help shape us.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
We believe that's the Holy Spirit.
It's what I was talking abouton Sunday, I think, prompting us
or bringing passages to mindfor that.
You know there is also for me,and I'm not always sure why, but
some of the poetry in Scripture, some of the ways that things
are or the metaphors that areused.
(12:34):
There is one metaphor in theOld Testament that is just
buried in Isaiah.
Isaiah 40 to 55 is some of myfavorite section.
But in this line about sort ofthe coming Messiah, the one God
will send, isaiah uses thisphrase a bruised reed he will
not break and a dimly burningwick he will not quench.
(12:59):
And there is that when I readthat verse and I knew it was
part of some of the pointingforward to the messianic
promises and pointing forward toJesus that that is one of those
verses that continues to shapeme, to see the tenderness of
Jesus to that dimly burning wickthat has shaped.
(13:19):
When God puts people in frontof me as a pastor but also just
as a guy, that I want to treateach person possibly as a dimly
burning wick and I don't want tobe the one to squelch that out.
Right that there may be abruised reed, and my words, if
I'm not careful with them, couldsnap them over Absolutely.
(13:41):
And so it has really led me tosee the tenderness of Jesus and
that call inside of me to treatothers with a sense of care and
tenderness as well.
So that's one of the versesalso, that just that image, that
metaphor just is so powerful inme, and I'm not sure why, but
it just resonated for me.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I love that and I see , when you talked about it, when
I heard it, I almost thought ofit more so in alignment with
like a loving father which isprobably needed, like a loving
parent.
And when you talk about Isaiah,there's so many beautiful images
of God as mother as well, right, this mother who feeds all her
children and brings them to herbreast and protects them, and so
(14:24):
just some really powerfulmetaphors that can be life
transforming, especially inrelationships with others.
And as we talk aboutrelationships with others, I
remember coming across thisscripture when I was married and
ironically it speaks into Godbeing our husband.
(14:44):
So, as a woman, from a femaleperspective, it came out of
Isaiah as well 54.5,.
For your maker is your husband.
The Lord Almighty is his name.
The one of Israel, the Holy Oneof Israel, is your Redeemer.
And so to me that was sopowerful, because I think
sometimes as a woman, as a wife,unconsciously we want our
(15:08):
husbands, or expect our husbands, to become our redeemer, right,
like?
You're supposed to make me feelbeautiful, you're supposed to
make me feel protected, you'resupposed to, you know, make sure
we're financially okay and I'msaying most of the time it's
unconscious, right and ourhusband, people, humans, we all
(15:30):
lack some things, we all havecharacter flaws, and so I think
sometimes we can be, as husbands, I'm sure, get frustrated with
their wives.
We can get frustrated, and Ithink for me it was a beautiful
reminder that I already have asavior and the one who will know
, the one who will save and theone who will redeem me all the
time and and make me feelbeautiful and make me feel
(15:51):
protected and remind me thatI'll be cared for, is God and so
powerful?
Yeah, and it's.
And I've really, you know,brought that scripture up to
other women too, as they'regoing through some difficulties
with their, their husbands.
Um, because it's not fair alsoto their husbands.
Right for us to put that onbroken humanity, that you're
(16:13):
supposed to, and it's nothealthy, because then we give
our power away.
I'm giving my power to someoneelse who is broken, you know,
and comes out of this contextwhere we're not perfect, we're
not whole.
We all come out of our ownstuff and so, yeah, we put it in
the right place, back with God.
God has that power.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I love that, mo, and I think that's, you know, just a
beautiful and powerful verse of.
and those are the places whereyou know we experience God's
Word speaking deep into thoselongings in our hearts, those
holes in our hearts, those hurtsin our hearts, and that's the
power of God's word and that'swhy you and I both love it,
(16:55):
that's why we want other peopleto spend time in it and in all
the variety of ways that theycan, through devotionals,
through scripture, becauseScripture can comfort us,
scripture can challenge us, youknow, to keep our mouth shut.
Or you know, in James, humbleyourself.
I've had to take that one andhear God speak to me through
(17:19):
that one at different times.
But also Scripture has at times.
I know I've had the experienceand I'll share one where I've
come upon Scriptures that Ihadn't seen before and it has
sometimes reshaped some of mythinking and I've got one of
(17:41):
those I want to share and youknow I wrestled throughout my
quote, unquote career as apastor, trying to understand the
issues around homosexuality inScripture, and because there's
(18:03):
so much in scripture that speaksclearly, speaks against that,
and so I really struggled withit.
I was drawn with the compassionof Jesus for the welcome of all,
but I also struggled with thetension of the scriptures of
that, and probably five, sevenyears ago I stumbled upon these
verses in Isaiah, chapter 56,and that really that shaped my
(18:31):
view in a different way, andI'll just read that.
It says do not let theforeigner join to the Lord, say
the Lord will surely separate mefrom his people, and do not let
the eunuch say I am just a drytree.
For thus says the Lord to theeunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose the things thatplease me and hold fast to my
covenant, I will give in myhouse and within my walls a
(18:53):
monument in a name better thansons and daughters.
I will give them an everlastingname that shall not be cut off.
Thus says the Lord.
God who gathers the outcasts ofIsrael, I will gather others to
them besides those alreadygathered.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Wow, that's so powerful.
And that literally speaks intoyeah, who were considered the
outcasts, sexually and withinsociety.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
At that time.
I mean you go back to Leviticus23, and it says if you were
someone who was sexually outsidethe norm, you were excluded
from the temple.
If you were a eunuch, youcouldn't go into the temple.
And so I mean you see that inthe Old Testament, you see it in
places in Paul in the NewTestament, but in this vision in
(19:41):
Isaiah.
Isaiah had this vision that Godwas saying no, there'll come a
time when all are welcomed inthat, those things that you
thought were so crucial.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Or that's God's ideal kingdom right?
Yes, that we pray for.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That are welcomed in.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And so and it came from me one of those scriptures
that said there is a welcome forthose who, uh, maybe, are
different, that have beenexcluded.
And and I I had I'd seen thatin circum.
I mean, you see that in the waythat Jesus kept reaching out to
all the people who are on thefringe, but you never saw that
(20:16):
specifically re regarding thosewho are sexually different.
And yet here in Isaiah Istumbled upon that and it really
was part of the shaping andhelp causing me to look at that
whole idea differently and witha much more open stance and a
welcoming stance.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I love that and you know, as we pray often, right
the Our Father, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as
it is in heaven, and that Isaiahvision is a vision of God's
kingdom, of what it means to seethe beauty of God's creation
and all of diversity and to knowthat God is so loving beyond
(20:57):
our understanding and sayingmake a space that's welcoming
and open and seeks to have arelationship with all of us.
And that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Is there a scripture that, along the way that there?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
are so many scriptures.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You want to share one more?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, I'll share one more, and this one I often use
it to kind of Apparently I haveto be checked often because I'm
like it usually has to do withother people and me kind of like
quenching my ego a bit, but itcomes out of Philippians 2, 3.
And me kind of like quenchingmy ego a bit, but it comes out
of Philippians 2, 3.
Don't be selfish, don't try toimpress others, be humble, don't
think of yourself as betterthan others, and that's so
(21:35):
important to me because you know, especially depending on who's
talking, and you know if you'rearguing with your kids or
whatever, going back and forth,of course, you think, not that
(22:11):
you think you're better, but youdefinitely think you're right,
and so you know that back andforth.
And what does it mean for me tonot?
I think it's so important,especially this one.
What does it mean for me to nottry to use language that maybe
is hyperbolic, or try to makemyself look better or defend
myself, even right?
Like these people whoever I'mwith there, it's God sees them
with the same passion and loveand desire, like they are just
as valued as an important to God, and so that helps my
perspective.
And like how I talk to othersor treat them or, um, or learn
from them, like open up myselfenough even to be like because
there's so many times when I'velet that drop that that person
(22:33):
has transformed me in somepretty big, powerful ways,
because I was able to finallyget out of my own head and
listen to them and hear them,and so that was really powerful
for me.
And I think just even inscripture you talk about the big
story and I see Godcontinuously working through
those we are so often mostuncomfortable with to bring us
(22:57):
to a space of healing and adeeper connection with God, and
that's kind of how I think Godworks.
So, yeah, it's pretty powerful.
So I thank you so much for justsharing that journey and we
hope, um, we know that all ofyou listening as well come from
different backgrounds, right?
Whether it's like pastorKendall's or more like mine.
We'd love to hear you sharesome pretty powerful scripture
(23:19):
that has impacted your life, orbig stories or characters.
Please leave a comment.
Share, share this If you thinkanyone else can get something
good out of it as we continue tounpack these truths, and don't
forget to submit some questionsIf you have any questions you'd
like us to unpack and talk alittle bit about and dive deeper
into.
So take care and thank you fortuning in.
(23:41):
Thanks for joining us on thisepisode of unpacking truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
, or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
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