September 17, 2024 • 21 mins
What if the boundaries set in ancient scripture could protect our modern lives from chaos and confusion? Join Pastor Kendall and Pastor Mo as we unpack the profound concept of boundaries through a biblical lens in this thought-provoking episode of Unpacking Truths. Journey with us back to the Garden of Eden, where God instituted the first boundary, reminding us that these divine limits are designed for our well-being. We'll explore Henry Cloud's insightful analogy of boundaries as property lines and discuss how the perpetual connectivity of the digital age complicates our ability to maintain clear-cut lines. With scriptural references like the Ten Commandments, we'll emphasize the importance of safeguarding our hearts, minds, and bodies in today's fast-paced world.
In another captivating discussion, we delve into the wisdom of discerning and setting boundaries to align with our unique callings. Reflecting on Jesus' interaction with the Canaanite woman, we examine how He strategically set boundaries to preserve His mission and prioritize people's well-being. Even good deeds, we argue, can detract from our primary calling if not wisely managed. To round out the episode, we navigate the delicate terrain of sarcasm in social interactions, debating its appropriateness and impact on our relationships. Tune in for a rich conversation that seeks to foster personal growth and deeper connections with God.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Unpacking
Truths, a podcast that Pastor Moand I have a chance to lead
here every week.
Today we're going to be digginginto a topic that's probably we
may return to at differenttimes, but it's just around the
question of boundaries.
What does the Bible have to sayaround boundaries?
(00:20):
Why are boundaries important?
How are boundaries important,especially in the lives that we
live today?
So we're going to try and justtouch into that from a number of
different angles.
I'm Pastor Kendall and I'mPastor Mo.
Welcome to Unpacking Truths,where we dive deep into God's
timeless truths for our livestoday.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Grab your coffee.
Open your hearts and your minds.
Come take this journey with us,as we unpack God's truths.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, let me hand it off to you to start us in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Absolutely Well.
A little more importantly, Ithink it's kind of childish that
you're always trying to competewith me with my mugs.
So what do you got?
Oh, I got today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I have one from a family.
My wife got it for me.
It says the best things in lifearen't things and it's a
picture of us and the kids whenwe were out in.
Colorado and we had beenjeeping out in some Jeeping yeah
Is that a verb.
I'm using it as a verb.
I don't know what you know.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hey kids, let's go jeeping.
I love it, I love it.
Hey, it's all right.
Words are all made up anyway.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm stealing it.
I'm stealing it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right.
So we're going to talk aboutboundaries today and you're
going to get quite theperspective, because if there's
one thing Kendall and I realizeis that we come from very
different contexts when it comesto this idea and we went back
and forth quite a bit becauseyou know the reality of a
married person, single person.
We both have kids His are alittle a little older, a little,
(01:52):
but the same sort of mine arestill needing me for things and
you know just what does thatmean A single life and balancing
all the things of a home anddifferent things and so and a
mom who needs help with somehealth concerns, and so just
kind of talking about therealities of someone who needs
(02:13):
to create lots of boundaries andfeels that on a daily basis,
you know, versus others whosometimes have a little bit more
leisure time, yet they useboundaries to justify kind of
just sometimes being selfish anddoing what they want to do when
they want to do it, and so,yeah, so we're going to have
different perspectives anddifferent thoughts and we hope
(02:34):
it kind of resonates with you.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, I was just going to jump in and sort of, if
that's some of the modern day,let's jump back and then let's
go forward.
But just from the verybeginning of Scripture, you see
God setting boundaries.
You know, in Genesis 2, in theGarden of Eden, god says I've
made this amazing garden for youand all of this, except just
(02:57):
don't eat from this one tree.
And so God just set a boundaryaround this.
God said all of this, not hereBoundaries for our good yeah,
Boundaries for our good.
yeah, Boundaries for our good.
And he said because if you dothis, you'll die.
So boundaries, when they'redone in the right way, are to
protect us.
And so I think, and then, asyou pointed out, Mo, as
(03:19):
Scripture goes on, because ofthe sin that's in us and the
brokenness, that we have to setboundaries because otherwise we
will hurt ourselves and hurtothers.
And so boundaries in scriptureare often lifted up in different
ways.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love what Henry Cloud he's anauthor, he's a psychologist,
he's Google him if you haven't.
He's awesome he talks about.
I love that he likensboundaries to property lines,
because what's on your propertyis your responsibility and
what's on your property is yourresponsibility and what's on
your neighbor's is theirs, right, and so it's our responsibility
to guard and protect our hearts.
(03:48):
That's in Proverbs.
It's our responsibility toguard and protect our thoughts,
right.
We're to guard our thoughtsright, keep our thoughts focused
on Christ and our bodies anddifferent things.
And like.
What does this look like if wetake care of our bodies in a way
and set boundaries around themwhere we understand that we're a
(04:09):
temple and we hold the verypresence of Christ in us?
And so I love that idea oflooking at it like that,
especially now because we're inan era where boundaries have
changed, I think exponentially,in that when you used to go to
work, you'd come home.
You were done with that.
When you leave your mother'shouse or your in-law's house,
(04:31):
you were separate from them.
But because of technology, weare so connected that boundaries
, I feel, can be crossed leftand right and not even crossed
like just being connected allthe time, right, and that
pressure even going to school,and if you're having problems
with kids, well, the bullies canfollow you now by your phone,
(04:52):
right, and the bullying canhappen online.
And so how?
It is so important that we lookto scripture and see the
different areas where boundarieshave been drawn around our time
, around our energy, around ourhearts and our lives.
And so, yeah, I just think yeah, what are some ways in which
you think that Scripture hasshown us that we can?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Well, I remember, just to build on what Henry
Cloud said, my Old Testamentprof, I remember saying that the
Ten Commandments he describedthem as fence posts that sort of
defined you know God's peoplewere to live within those fence
(05:36):
posts.
Yeah, because that sort ofprotected them from the things
that you know, within theseboundaries we don't covet, we
don't kill each other, we don'tand we honor God and we don't
take God's names in vain.
It sort of defined thecommunity and there is something
that's what boundaries help todo.
They help to define.
(05:57):
I mean, in some ways Godcreated skin as the boundary for
our bodies, so some of the verytender and fragile parts inside
of us don't, you know, spillout, that's a really bad thing.
when that happens, we needboundaries.
I mean, mark Twain said fencesmake good neighbors.
You that idea of boundaries.
(06:18):
So I think it is this topicthat impacts our time, impacts
how we interact with others.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And it's interesting that you talk about the Ten
Commandments, because I rememberin Old Testament class in
seminary just how the laws oh mygoodness, over 600 different
laws how those were seen as agracious gift because it did put
boundaries around our lives ina way where it led us to
(06:46):
prosperity and goodness and whatis right and true for us, right
and for the community.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And so, looking at it like that, and yet they became
challenges because, as thePharisees focused on those, 613,
part of what they ended updoing is that oh, you're not
crossing that one, You're notdoing that one.
So they weren't just they wereusing them for themselves, but
they were also using them tothen judge everyone else, which
was where Jesus challenged them.
(07:13):
So boundaries are both needed,but then they can also be abused
, and so that's that tensionwithin them.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, whenever we're using something for selfish
purposes, I think we've missedthe mark of what the purpose of
it is for right, but as humanbeings we so naturally slip into
that.
Oh, right, right, absolutely.
One boundary I draw aroundmyself is, I ask myself all the
time like, how am I loving God?
And how am I loving this otherperson, right, like before, in a
(07:43):
decision that I'm about to make, how is this loving to them?
Am I being loving to them?
Am I even thinking about them?
Jesus drew boundaries around all600 and whatever you know laws
by saying hey, two if you don't.
You know you know laws bysaying hey, two if you don't.
You know there are two that aremost important love God and
love your neighbor.
(08:03):
And so I love that because it'slike it creates these, this,
this way, right, this moresimplistic way to just kind of
filter everything through thatwe decide to do.
But we are in a very fast pacedworld and life, right, and lots
can be added on our plates andwe often, you know, take on too
much.
And when I think about this, Ithink about the story of Moses,
(08:26):
right, and how he was judgingall you know, or he was the
judge for all the people.
So they were coming to him ashe's in the wilderness, like
with all these complaints andfights and arguments and things,
and he was becoming overwhelmedand he was burnt out and if it
wasn't for his father-in-lawthat said you know, no, like
(08:46):
this is not how it's supposed tobe.
Delegate out and you take onwhat you, where your talents are
, what you're supposed to bedoing, which is the most you
know, whatever the mostimportant of the cases, or
whatever.
And so it's really I doingwhich is the most you know,
whatever the most important ofthe cases, or whatever.
And so it's really, I think,thinking through the reality
that we've been created to be abody because we're not supposed
(09:06):
to do everything.
We're really not.
Especially, I think aboutEphesians 2.10 that says for we
are God's handiwork, created inChrist Jesus to do good works
which God prepared in advancefor us to do.
And so if we're doing all goodworks, not the good works that
God prepared for us to do, thenwe're taking on things that God
(09:28):
never intended and we're burningourselves out, and you know we
have finite energy and time.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So you know, Mo, and I think there you're getting to
this great place.
You know, if, um, if you aredoing not only the good works
that God prepared for you to do,but the ones that three other
people were supposed to do,you're robbing them of the
chance to do those things andyou're getting burned out.
So the that's the one danger isthat we don't have any
(09:56):
boundaries and we try to do toomuch.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
The other danger with it is some people create
boundaries so high walls, goinglike, well, I want to just
protect me, and then they don'teven see where God is calling
them out to love and serveneighbors.
So some of us are toounboundaried and we're just sort
of spilling out everywhere andsome of us have probably built
(10:20):
boundaries too high and God'ssaying knock those walls down.
I'm calling you to love thatneighbor.
That's a pain in the derriereand show kindness to them.
And you're just avoiding themand because, oh, I got to build
a boundary, because they're kindof a jerk?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Actually, I'm going to definitely piggyback off of
this and I'm going to count onthe fact that my daughter is
probably not going to listen tothis podcast.
But I remember my mom was inthe hospital and I had a really
important doctor appointmentthat had been on the calendar
for months, Right, and I triedto get into this doctor and so
it was a sleep doctor thing andso, like I said to her, I need
(10:57):
you, I need you to come up tothe hospital.
My mom was intubated.
You know, be with grandma, sitwith her.
And she said to me and she's,you know, military.
And she said, oh, I have towork out, I, I, this is my
workout time.
I thought I was going to jumpthrough the phone.
I was like I'll show you wherey'all work you out.
We can wrestle, You'll burn alot of energy.
(11:18):
Like I was shook.
I was like well, that you know.
And she went on about how, likeyou're talking about right now,
Like well, I need to be, youknow, if I'm going to continue
and in the Air Force, and I haveto make sure that I'm tip-top
this and that and I'm just likeyou can do that.
There are different things we'recalled to at different times,
(11:40):
and this is more important, andthis isn't an all the time thing
but an extenuating circumstance.
But you're right, we can get socaught up in and that is such a
selfish.
Like taking care of one's bodyis not selfish, it's beautiful.
We're called to do that.
And yet if you become so strictand your boundary is so tight
(12:00):
around that, to the detriment ofyour responsibility to love
your neighbor and care forothers, I think that's when we
make the mistake and that's whyI draw that boundary around
myself all the time, Like how amI loving?
You know my neighbor as well,you know, just bouncing back and
forth.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I mean.
I think it really does comedown to creating healthy
boundaries, and we can beunboundaried, we can be too
boundaried.
We need healthy boundariesbecause they help us to live
well.
They help us to steward thegift of our time and our energy
and our talents in the right way.
And yet there are times whereGod's going to call us out of
(12:41):
our natural way.
There will be times where myprimary job at Light of Christ
is not to vacuum the carpet.
We have some other people whodo that at different times.
Does that mean Kendall willnever vacuum the carpet?
No, there might be a time whereI need to step in to do that,
so it's not my normal thing.
There might be a time where Ineed to step in to do that, so
it's not my normal thing, butthere may be a time when I need
(13:03):
to do that.
Now, if I'm vacuuming thecarpet all the time, I'm
probably not preparing for apodcast or preparing for a
sermon or calling someone who'shurting or something else, and
not doing the things that only Ican do.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And that's where discernment comes in so much,
things that only I can do, andthat's where discernment comes
in so much.
And I can't help but thinkabout the sermon I just preached
about wisdom and the story ofJesus with the Canaanite woman
and how she was crying out andbegging help, heal my daughter,
heal my daughter.
She'd been possessed by spiritsand Jesus is just ignoring her
and that really kind of botheredme and it's getting annoying,
(13:40):
apparently, because thedisciples are like, can we shut
this one up?
I'm paraphrasing But—.
And then Jesus finally stopsand says it's not right for me
to give the children's food,throw the children's food to the
dogs, right, and it took me awhile, but I really I think
God's spirit really started toopen me up to see this.
(14:01):
Like he had a knowledge of whohe was and what his mission was.
Like he knew who he was.
He knew that God called him toproclaim the kingdom of God,
that a time of healing, a timeof mercy, a time of forgiveness
has broken into the world, andit was his responsibility to
(14:21):
preach this to fellow Israelites.
Right, and so that's what hewas doing.
And he also knew who theCanaanites were.
He knew that they were peoplethat worship many gods, had
occultic sexual and moralpractices, sacrificed their
children.
So he had a knowledge of thesethings.
And so when he said that Idon't think it was rude, I think
(14:44):
it was having a boundary, likesaying it's my responsibility to
guard my time, my energy, myresources.
And when she did respond backthat yes, but even the dogs get
the children's crumbs right,that was when he was able to
(15:05):
have you know cause we're alsocalled to make judgments.
He was able to see that, wow,her heart is open enough to
receive.
And so he said you know, yourfaith has healed your daughter,
and so I think it's.
I thought that was actually kindof beautiful to see that we too
are supposed to do that rightin things.
But it's all focused around thefoundation of all we do is out
(15:27):
of a connection with God.
I think it's, you know, out ofwho we know.
God says we are, who God is,what God has called us to do,
those special things setbeforehand right.
We are supposed to protect ourtime, energy and resources so
that we can live out ofEphesians right, so that we can
live out of the purpose forwhich we've been created, not so
(15:49):
that you know, protecting itall so that, oh so that I can
have the best body because I'm,you know, in the military or not
in the military, or whateverLike.
But I think we miss sometimeswe just kind of miss the mark
right what this means to setboundaries appropriately If it's
separate from, if it's moreself-focused than God-focused.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I think that's a great way to settle in on that,
mo, and I think it's one we haveto keep checking in on.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Because I'm really struck.
In the Sermon on the Mount Imean there's just so much
richness there.
But at one point early on inMatthew 5, jesus says don't
think I've come to abolish thelaw, I'm not throwing out all
those boundaries, you don't know, but I'm coming to fulfill them
.
But then, just verses laterafter that, he says you have
(16:42):
heard it said.
But I say to you so youunderstood this boundary this
way, but I have to reinterpretit.
So there's this sense where Ithink Jesus even was taking the
boundaries that God gave in theOld Testament and saying okay,
now we got to rethink some ofthat, or we got to look at it in
different ways, or sometimes itwas more intense that you know.
He said, you know, you heard,you shall not kill.
(17:04):
I say, don't be angry, you know.
And so he was intensifying some, the others around the Sabbath,
they, you know, he got introuble because there was a
boundary, you're not supposed todo any work.
Well, his disciples were hungry.
They're picking some grain andeating.
And Jesus says well, I'm Lordof the Sabbath.
So there is a sense where Jesusboth recognized the necessity
(17:27):
of God's law and the boundariesbut also said sometimes we have
to look at it in new light.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, this reminds me of an Old Testament
class with a professor Guilethat I had, and it was all about
this.
It was about did Jesus come tojust kind of disregard the Old
Testament laws and what it was.
Every single thing that Jesussaid.
You know, you've heard it said,but I say it all has to do with
people taking precedence.
(17:54):
People take precedence nomatter what.
The well-being of others, thewell-being of ourselves, takes
precedence over the washing ofyour hands or the not picking
grain or the whatever it was.
Right is care of others andcare of self, and I think that's
why Jesus drew those simpleboundaries.
I'm glad he simplified itbecause it makes things a lot
(18:16):
easier.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Well, it makes it easier and harder.
In some ways it was easier,it's just, oh, I do this or I
don't do that, If I have toactually think what's loving?
I have to wrestle with that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and lots of other parts.
I think too, because it's ofcourse lots, lots of other parts
.
I think too, because it's ofcourse lots of things are loving
and you know I've even talkedabout, like.
You know, there are things thatlook very good that we give our
time to and we give ourresources to, but it maybe is
still unwise, because it's notwhat we are called to do during
this season of our lives, or itwould be to the detriment of
(18:49):
ourselves or our own families.
However, you are right in that Ithink sometimes we do end up
protecting and drawingboundaries around things so that
we could keep it kind ofself-focused and more selfish,
naturally, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, you know, one of the questions, I think, for
those of you listening, those ofyou watching, to ask that
question of yourself Do you seeyourself as someone who is kind
of unboundary, that maybe you'reneeding to create some more
boundaries in some places?
Or are you someone who maybehas such high boundaries?
Maybe God's calling you to say,hey, I may be calling you
(19:25):
beyond that, because we may bein different places and I find
in my own life there are certainplaces where maybe I'm too high
boundary, I need to loosen up,and there are other places that
maybe I need to set some more,and so I think that's an ongoing
question we have to wrestlewith and keep seeking God's
wisdom.
I think of James, where Jamesjust says you know, ask God for
(19:47):
the wisdom, oh, absolutely.
And we just have to keep comingback because what may have been
an appropriate boundary for meat one point in life may change
at times.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And that's where thatconnection with God and knowing
who we are and knowing you knowwhere God's calling us in a
season is so imperative.
So we would love to hear howmaybe you have set up boundaries
, how you have read differentpieces of scripture and use them
to set boundaries in your ownlife in some pretty powerful
ways.
Please leave them in thecomments below.
(20:17):
We are always looking to shareand glean more wisdom from one
another.
That's what it's about.
It's about sharing ourexperience of what it means to
follow Jesus.
So thanks for joining us anduntil next time.
We'll see you later, next timeon Unpacking Truths.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Sometimes someone slights me, you know, doesn't
open.
They open the door for someoneelse and they didn't open it for
me and I can go like, well, Iguess they didn't see me and I
can let it go and I'm going onwith my life and and and it's
gone.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
You know you let it roll off your back.
You don't like say curses uponyou and your family.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
No, I usually don't speak, curses upon people for
that.
On the other hand, as one of myfriends says, you know there
can also be things where it'shurt, they go.
I'm not going to deal with itand I just throw it in the
bucket.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Wait, is it wrong to do like use sarcasm Because I'm
like?
I'll use sarcasm in situationslike that where I'm like well,
apparently, chivalry is deadhere, as the door just slammed
in my face, is that?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
wrong.
Well, I heard someone saysarcasm is the lowest form of
humor, but you can use what youchoose.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Unpacking
Truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
, or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
Welcome everyone to another episode of Unpacking
Truths, a podcast that Pastor Moand I have a chance to lead
here every week.
Today we're going to be digginginto a topic that's probably we
may return to at differenttimes, but it's just around the
question of boundaries.
What does the Bible have to sayaround boundaries?
(00:20):
Why are boundaries important?
How are boundaries important,especially in the lives that we
live today?
So we're going to try and justtouch into that from a number of
different angles.
I'm Pastor Kendall and I'mPastor Mo.
Welcome to Unpacking Truths,where we dive deep into God's
timeless truths for our livestoday.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Grab your coffee.
Open your hearts and your minds.
Come take this journey with us,as we unpack God's truths.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, let me hand it off to you to start us in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Absolutely Well.
A little more importantly, Ithink it's kind of childish that
you're always trying to competewith me with my mugs.
So what do you got?
Oh, I got today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I have one from a family.
My wife got it for me.
It says the best things in lifearen't things and it's a
picture of us and the kids whenwe were out in.
Colorado and we had beenjeeping out in some Jeeping yeah
Is that a verb.
I'm using it as a verb.
I don't know what you know.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Hey kids, let's go jeeping.
I love it, I love it.
Hey, it's all right.
Words are all made up anyway.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm stealing it.
I'm stealing it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
All right.
So we're going to talk aboutboundaries today and you're
going to get quite theperspective, because if there's
one thing Kendall and I realizeis that we come from very
different contexts when it comesto this idea and we went back
and forth quite a bit becauseyou know the reality of a
married person, single person.
We both have kids His are alittle a little older, a little,
(01:52):
but the same sort of mine arestill needing me for things and
you know just what does thatmean A single life and balancing
all the things of a home anddifferent things and so and a
mom who needs help with somehealth concerns, and so just
kind of talking about therealities of someone who needs
(02:13):
to create lots of boundaries andfeels that on a daily basis,
you know, versus others whosometimes have a little bit more
leisure time, yet they useboundaries to justify kind of
just sometimes being selfish anddoing what they want to do when
they want to do it, and so,yeah, so we're going to have
different perspectives anddifferent thoughts and we hope
(02:34):
it kind of resonates with you.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, I was just going to jump in and sort of, if
that's some of the modern day,let's jump back and then let's
go forward.
But just from the verybeginning of Scripture, you see
God setting boundaries.
You know, in Genesis 2, in theGarden of Eden, god says I've
made this amazing garden for youand all of this, except just
(02:57):
don't eat from this one tree.
And so God just set a boundaryaround this.
God said all of this, not hereBoundaries for our good yeah,
Boundaries for our good.
yeah, Boundaries for our good.
And he said because if you dothis, you'll die.
So boundaries, when they'redone in the right way, are to
protect us.
And so I think, and then, asyou pointed out, Mo, as
(03:19):
Scripture goes on, because ofthe sin that's in us and the
brokenness, that we have to setboundaries because otherwise we
will hurt ourselves and hurtothers.
And so boundaries in scriptureare often lifted up in different
ways.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love what Henry Cloud he's anauthor, he's a psychologist,
he's Google him if you haven't.
He's awesome he talks about.
I love that he likensboundaries to property lines,
because what's on your propertyis your responsibility and
what's on your property is yourresponsibility and what's on
your neighbor's is theirs, right, and so it's our responsibility
to guard and protect our hearts.
(03:48):
That's in Proverbs.
It's our responsibility toguard and protect our thoughts,
right.
We're to guard our thoughtsright, keep our thoughts focused
on Christ and our bodies anddifferent things.
And like.
What does this look like if wetake care of our bodies in a way
and set boundaries around themwhere we understand that we're a
(04:09):
temple and we hold the verypresence of Christ in us?
And so I love that idea oflooking at it like that,
especially now because we're inan era where boundaries have
changed, I think exponentially,in that when you used to go to
work, you'd come home.
You were done with that.
When you leave your mother'shouse or your in-law's house,
(04:31):
you were separate from them.
But because of technology, weare so connected that boundaries
, I feel, can be crossed leftand right and not even crossed
like just being connected allthe time, right, and that
pressure even going to school,and if you're having problems
with kids, well, the bullies canfollow you now by your phone,
(04:52):
right, and the bullying canhappen online.
And so how?
It is so important that we lookto scripture and see the
different areas where boundarieshave been drawn around our time
, around our energy, around ourhearts and our lives.
And so, yeah, I just think yeah, what are some ways in which
you think that Scripture hasshown us that we can?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Well, I remember, just to build on what Henry
Cloud said, my Old Testamentprof, I remember saying that the
Ten Commandments he describedthem as fence posts that sort of
defined you know God's peoplewere to live within those fence
(05:36):
posts.
Yeah, because that sort ofprotected them from the things
that you know, within theseboundaries we don't covet, we
don't kill each other, we don'tand we honor God and we don't
take God's names in vain.
It sort of defined thecommunity and there is something
that's what boundaries help todo.
They help to define.
(05:57):
I mean, in some ways Godcreated skin as the boundary for
our bodies, so some of the verytender and fragile parts inside
of us don't, you know, spillout, that's a really bad thing.
when that happens, we needboundaries.
I mean, mark Twain said fencesmake good neighbors.
You that idea of boundaries.
(06:18):
So I think it is this topicthat impacts our time, impacts
how we interact with others.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And it's interesting that you talk about the Ten
Commandments, because I rememberin Old Testament class in
seminary just how the laws oh mygoodness, over 600 different
laws how those were seen as agracious gift because it did put
boundaries around our lives ina way where it led us to
(06:46):
prosperity and goodness and whatis right and true for us, right
and for the community.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And so, looking at it like that, and yet they became
challenges because, as thePharisees focused on those, 613,
part of what they ended updoing is that oh, you're not
crossing that one, You're notdoing that one.
So they weren't just they wereusing them for themselves, but
they were also using them tothen judge everyone else, which
was where Jesus challenged them.
(07:13):
So boundaries are both needed,but then they can also be abused
, and so that's that tensionwithin them.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, whenever we're using something for selfish
purposes, I think we've missedthe mark of what the purpose of
it is for right, but as humanbeings we so naturally slip into
that.
Oh, right, right, absolutely.
One boundary I draw aroundmyself is, I ask myself all the
time like, how am I loving God?
And how am I loving this otherperson, right, like before, in a
(07:43):
decision that I'm about to make, how is this loving to them?
Am I being loving to them?
Am I even thinking about them?
Jesus drew boundaries around all600 and whatever you know laws
by saying hey, two if you don't.
You know you know laws bysaying hey, two if you don't.
You know there are two that aremost important love God and
love your neighbor.
(08:03):
And so I love that because it'slike it creates these, this,
this way, right, this moresimplistic way to just kind of
filter everything through thatwe decide to do.
But we are in a very fast pacedworld and life, right, and lots
can be added on our plates andwe often, you know, take on too
much.
And when I think about this, Ithink about the story of Moses,
(08:26):
right, and how he was judgingall you know, or he was the
judge for all the people.
So they were coming to him ashe's in the wilderness, like
with all these complaints andfights and arguments and things,
and he was becoming overwhelmedand he was burnt out and if it
wasn't for his father-in-lawthat said you know, no, like
(08:46):
this is not how it's supposed tobe.
Delegate out and you take onwhat you, where your talents are
, what you're supposed to bedoing, which is the most you
know, whatever the mostimportant of the cases, or
whatever.
And so it's really I doingwhich is the most you know,
whatever the most important ofthe cases, or whatever.
And so it's really, I think,thinking through the reality
that we've been created to be abody because we're not supposed
(09:06):
to do everything.
We're really not.
Especially, I think aboutEphesians 2.10 that says for we
are God's handiwork, created inChrist Jesus to do good works
which God prepared in advancefor us to do.
And so if we're doing all goodworks, not the good works that
God prepared for us to do, thenwe're taking on things that God
(09:28):
never intended and we're burningourselves out, and you know we
have finite energy and time.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So you know, Mo, and I think there you're getting to
this great place.
You know, if, um, if you aredoing not only the good works
that God prepared for you to do,but the ones that three other
people were supposed to do,you're robbing them of the
chance to do those things andyou're getting burned out.
So the that's the one danger isthat we don't have any
(09:56):
boundaries and we try to do toomuch.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
The other danger with it is some people create
boundaries so high walls, goinglike, well, I want to just
protect me, and then they don'teven see where God is calling
them out to love and serveneighbors.
So some of us are toounboundaried and we're just sort
of spilling out everywhere andsome of us have probably built
(10:20):
boundaries too high and God'ssaying knock those walls down.
I'm calling you to love thatneighbor.
That's a pain in the derriereand show kindness to them.
And you're just avoiding themand because, oh, I got to build
a boundary, because they're kindof a jerk?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Actually, I'm going to definitely piggyback off of
this and I'm going to count onthe fact that my daughter is
probably not going to listen tothis podcast.
But I remember my mom was inthe hospital and I had a really
important doctor appointmentthat had been on the calendar
for months, Right, and I triedto get into this doctor and so
it was a sleep doctor thing andso, like I said to her, I need
(10:57):
you, I need you to come up tothe hospital.
My mom was intubated.
You know, be with grandma, sitwith her.
And she said to me and she's,you know, military.
And she said, oh, I have towork out, I, I, this is my
workout time.
I thought I was going to jumpthrough the phone.
I was like I'll show you wherey'all work you out.
We can wrestle, You'll burn alot of energy.
(11:18):
Like I was shook.
I was like well, that you know.
And she went on about how, likeyou're talking about right now,
Like well, I need to be, youknow, if I'm going to continue
and in the Air Force, and I haveto make sure that I'm tip-top
this and that and I'm just likeyou can do that.
There are different things we'recalled to at different times,
(11:40):
and this is more important, andthis isn't an all the time thing
but an extenuating circumstance.
But you're right, we can get socaught up in and that is such a
selfish.
Like taking care of one's bodyis not selfish, it's beautiful.
We're called to do that.
And yet if you become so strictand your boundary is so tight
(12:00):
around that, to the detriment ofyour responsibility to love
your neighbor and care forothers, I think that's when we
make the mistake and that's whyI draw that boundary around
myself all the time, Like how amI loving?
You know my neighbor as well,you know, just bouncing back and
forth.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I mean.
I think it really does comedown to creating healthy
boundaries, and we can beunboundaried, we can be too
boundaried.
We need healthy boundariesbecause they help us to live
well.
They help us to steward thegift of our time and our energy
and our talents in the right way.
And yet there are times whereGod's going to call us out of
(12:41):
our natural way.
There will be times where myprimary job at Light of Christ
is not to vacuum the carpet.
We have some other people whodo that at different times.
Does that mean Kendall willnever vacuum the carpet?
No, there might be a time whereI need to step in to do that,
so it's not my normal thing.
There might be a time where Ineed to step in to do that, so
it's not my normal thing, butthere may be a time when I need
(13:03):
to do that.
Now, if I'm vacuuming thecarpet all the time, I'm
probably not preparing for apodcast or preparing for a
sermon or calling someone who'shurting or something else, and
not doing the things that only Ican do.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And that's where discernment comes in so much,
things that only I can do, andthat's where discernment comes
in so much.
And I can't help but thinkabout the sermon I just preached
about wisdom and the story ofJesus with the Canaanite woman
and how she was crying out andbegging help, heal my daughter,
heal my daughter.
She'd been possessed by spiritsand Jesus is just ignoring her
and that really kind of botheredme and it's getting annoying,
(13:40):
apparently, because thedisciples are like, can we shut
this one up?
I'm paraphrasing But—.
And then Jesus finally stopsand says it's not right for me
to give the children's food,throw the children's food to the
dogs, right, and it took me awhile, but I really I think
God's spirit really started toopen me up to see this.
(14:01):
Like he had a knowledge of whohe was and what his mission was.
Like he knew who he was.
He knew that God called him toproclaim the kingdom of God,
that a time of healing, a timeof mercy, a time of forgiveness
has broken into the world, andit was his responsibility to
(14:21):
preach this to fellow Israelites.
Right, and so that's what hewas doing.
And he also knew who theCanaanites were.
He knew that they were peoplethat worship many gods, had
occultic sexual and moralpractices, sacrificed their
children.
So he had a knowledge of thesethings.
And so when he said that Idon't think it was rude, I think
(14:44):
it was having a boundary, likesaying it's my responsibility to
guard my time, my energy, myresources.
And when she did respond backthat yes, but even the dogs get
the children's crumbs right,that was when he was able to
(15:05):
have you know cause we're alsocalled to make judgments.
He was able to see that, wow,her heart is open enough to
receive.
And so he said you know, yourfaith has healed your daughter,
and so I think it's.
I thought that was actually kindof beautiful to see that we too
are supposed to do that rightin things.
But it's all focused around thefoundation of all we do is out
(15:27):
of a connection with God.
I think it's, you know, out ofwho we know.
God says we are, who God is,what God has called us to do,
those special things setbeforehand right.
We are supposed to protect ourtime, energy and resources so
that we can live out ofEphesians right, so that we can
live out of the purpose forwhich we've been created, not so
(15:49):
that you know, protecting itall so that, oh so that I can
have the best body because I'm,you know, in the military or not
in the military, or whateverLike.
But I think we miss sometimeswe just kind of miss the mark
right what this means to setboundaries appropriately If it's
separate from, if it's moreself-focused than God-focused.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I think that's a great way to settle in on that,
mo, and I think it's one we haveto keep checking in on.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Because I'm really struck.
In the Sermon on the Mount Imean there's just so much
richness there.
But at one point early on inMatthew 5, jesus says don't
think I've come to abolish thelaw, I'm not throwing out all
those boundaries, you don't know, but I'm coming to fulfill them
.
But then, just verses laterafter that, he says you have
(16:42):
heard it said.
But I say to you so youunderstood this boundary this
way, but I have to reinterpretit.
So there's this sense where Ithink Jesus even was taking the
boundaries that God gave in theOld Testament and saying okay,
now we got to rethink some ofthat, or we got to look at it in
different ways, or sometimes itwas more intense that you know.
He said, you know, you heard,you shall not kill.
(17:04):
I say, don't be angry, you know.
And so he was intensifying some, the others around the Sabbath,
they, you know, he got introuble because there was a
boundary, you're not supposed todo any work.
Well, his disciples were hungry.
They're picking some grain andeating.
And Jesus says well, I'm Lordof the Sabbath.
So there is a sense where Jesusboth recognized the necessity
(17:27):
of God's law and the boundariesbut also said sometimes we have
to look at it in new light.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, this reminds me of an Old Testament
class with a professor Guilethat I had, and it was all about
this.
It was about did Jesus come tojust kind of disregard the Old
Testament laws and what it was.
Every single thing that Jesussaid.
You know, you've heard it said,but I say it all has to do with
people taking precedence.
(17:54):
People take precedence nomatter what.
The well-being of others, thewell-being of ourselves, takes
precedence over the washing ofyour hands or the not picking
grain or the whatever it was.
Right is care of others andcare of self, and I think that's
why Jesus drew those simpleboundaries.
I'm glad he simplified itbecause it makes things a lot
(18:16):
easier.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Well, it makes it easier and harder.
In some ways it was easier,it's just, oh, I do this or I
don't do that, If I have toactually think what's loving?
I have to wrestle with that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and lots of other parts.
I think too, because it's ofcourse lots, lots of other parts
.
I think too, because it's ofcourse lots of things are loving
and you know I've even talkedabout, like.
You know, there are things thatlook very good that we give our
time to and we give ourresources to, but it maybe is
still unwise, because it's notwhat we are called to do during
this season of our lives, or itwould be to the detriment of
(18:49):
ourselves or our own families.
However, you are right in that Ithink sometimes we do end up
protecting and drawingboundaries around things so that
we could keep it kind ofself-focused and more selfish,
naturally, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, you know, one of the questions, I think, for
those of you listening, those ofyou watching, to ask that
question of yourself Do you seeyourself as someone who is kind
of unboundary, that maybe you'reneeding to create some more
boundaries in some places?
Or are you someone who maybehas such high boundaries?
Maybe God's calling you to say,hey, I may be calling you
(19:25):
beyond that, because we may bein different places and I find
in my own life there are certainplaces where maybe I'm too high
boundary, I need to loosen up,and there are other places that
maybe I need to set some more,and so I think that's an ongoing
question we have to wrestlewith and keep seeking God's
wisdom.
I think of James, where Jamesjust says you know, ask God for
(19:47):
the wisdom, oh, absolutely.
And we just have to keep comingback because what may have been
an appropriate boundary for meat one point in life may change
at times.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And that's where thatconnection with God and knowing
who we are and knowing you knowwhere God's calling us in a
season is so imperative.
So we would love to hear howmaybe you have set up boundaries
, how you have read differentpieces of scripture and use them
to set boundaries in your ownlife in some pretty powerful
ways.
Please leave them in thecomments below.
(20:17):
We are always looking to shareand glean more wisdom from one
another.
That's what it's about.
It's about sharing ourexperience of what it means to
follow Jesus.
So thanks for joining us anduntil next time.
We'll see you later, next timeon Unpacking Truths.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Sometimes someone slights me, you know, doesn't
open.
They open the door for someoneelse and they didn't open it for
me and I can go like, well, Iguess they didn't see me and I
can let it go and I'm going onwith my life and and and it's
gone.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
You know you let it roll off your back.
You don't like say curses uponyou and your family.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
No, I usually don't speak, curses upon people for
that.
On the other hand, as one of myfriends says, you know there
can also be things where it'shurt, they go.
I'm not going to deal with itand I just throw it in the
bucket.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Wait, is it wrong to do like use sarcasm Because I'm
like?
I'll use sarcasm in situationslike that where I'm like well,
apparently, chivalry is deadhere, as the door just slammed
in my face, is that?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
wrong.
Well, I heard someone saysarcasm is the lowest form of
humor, but you can use what youchoose.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Unpacking
Truths.
If anything that we discussedsparked any ideas or you have
any questions, we would love foryou to go to unpackingtruthscom
, or you can also email us atunpackingtruths at locchurchcom.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And don't forget to like, share or subscribe to the
podcast, because you doing thatallows other people to connect
to this content and grow withGod as well.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Until next time, we hope you know that you are loved
.
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