December 7, 2023 • 34 mins
Research shows that joy and high performance are tightly correlated, so it's worth asking: why don't we play more? And how can the power of play help us produce better, more innovative, and more personally satisfying work? In this episode, J.B. and Molly speak with Lauren Cooke, the creative director behind diverse brands like Alamo Drafthouse, Mondo, Snap Kitchen, and Bestow Life Insurance. Her insights reveal the transformative power of joy and play in creating ideas that are just weird enough to connect with. We also dive into the stickiness of using AI to drive creativity and close with thoughts on working with or being introverts in the creative process. Grab some Play-Doh for this one!
"You have to consciously decide to carve out time to be silly, to do something weird... Going through some paths that won't work out makes the final product sing." - Lauren Cooke
0:13 Intro
3:20 Give Me The Weird
6:49 Hire, Fire, Boss!
12:11 Encouraging Play in the Workplace
19:17 Introverts in Structured Brainstorms
22:02 On Ambition
24:52 AI's Impact on Art and Creativity
31:05 Reflections and outro
Check out Lauren's clay animations on Instagram and connect on LinkedIn.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Lauren's favorite fidget clay (don't forget the eyeballs)
Follow Unserious in your podcast app, at unserious.com, and on Instagram and Threads at @unserious.fun.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
J.B. (00:05):
This is Unserious.
In 25 years of working, I knowthis much to be true.
Joy and high performance aretightly correlated, but don't
take my word for it.
Harvard Business Review agreeswith me.
Joy and high performance arecritical attributes of the most
(00:28):
creative teams in the world.
Joyful Workplaces see reducedturnover, higher productivity,
better safety and greatercollaboration.
They also have happieremployees, and it won't shock
anyone that happier employeesare more creative, innovative
and dedicated.
Some of the leaders I admiremost use play to weave joy into
(00:49):
their creative processes andoutputs.
They're also the leaders Iwould work for again in the
heartbeat.
So it's worth asking how canplay help our teams produce
better, more innovative and morepersonally satisfying work?
Our guest today likes to getshit done and have fun often at
the same time.
Lauren Cook is a creativedirector, designer and marketer
(01:11):
behind such brands as Bestow,snap Kitchen, alamo, draft House
and its sister brand, mondo.
Lauren is also a generative andplayful maker who can't be
contained by her day job alone.
She's executive, produced shortfilms, sews handmade goods and
produces incredibly fun stopmotion videos.
Lauren, thank you for joiningus today from sunny Austin,
(01:32):
texas.
Lauren (01:33):
Oh, thank you, I'm happy to be here.
J.B. (01:37):
So you're working in life insurance?
At Bestow, consumer products,at Snap Kitchen.
Lauren (01:42):
Yes, some fun, easy to heat up meals.
J.B. (01:46):
Entertainment and hospitality over at Alamo Draft
House.
Molly (01:50):
Fan favorite.
J.B. (01:51):
And Mondo it's the one that we're most familiar with
because we have an Alamo DraftHouse here in the mission but,
like these are all reallydifferent companies where you've
led creative teams and you'rethe common denominator so far as
I could tell, the only commondenominator.
What is the through line to allof this?
What is your ethos for work?
Lauren (02:11):
I think I am definitely a curious person, so I'm going
to just be interested in a wholenew thing, like throw something
new at me and that's going tobe the exciting part of it.
I want to learn a whole newindustry.
I knew nothing about lifeinsurance when I joined Bestow.
I was just fully ignorant, butit was a great team.
(02:32):
They have taught me so much.
I now understand the basics ofunderwriting and how it all
works and the value that itbrings, and I think getting to
have those opportunities to workin a different industry often
is always exciting.
So I think I'll keep doing thatin my career.
I'd love to keep bouncingaround.
Molly (02:53):
Yeah, I totally get that.
I'm starting a new positionright now and I'm loving it and
what I like is that I'm just onlike steep learning curve and I
always find that it's sort oflike visiting another country or
traveling to another part ofthe world, and so I'm curious,
with all this whimsy andcreativity that you have, you do
(03:15):
your videos, you sew, you'vehad an Etsy store how does that
come into your world of work?
Lauren (03:21):
I think it just kind of gets forced out of me.
I can't help myself when itcomes to whimsy and creativity.
I'm going to figure out a wayto make something playful,
because I think joy is such agreat emotion to share and to
create, and so if I can findthat element within a cute
(03:43):
little photo shoot that has amicrowave meal, I'll do that at
Snap.
Molly (03:47):
But yeah, it's something.
Lauren (03:49):
at Alamo, where we're man, we were creating joy all
the time.
I mean, it was it'sentertainment.
That's lovely.
It's been a challenge in lifeinsurance, since it's such a
serious topic.
How do we bring in that joy andthat playfulness?
But I think a lot of it is like.
Humans relate to joy, theyrelate to play.
We've all been kids once, sogoing back to some foundational
(04:14):
kid feelings sometimes, I think,is a really powerful way to get
your message out there.
Molly (04:21):
Do you do that through, like the work that you create or
how you interact with your teammembers?
Lauren (04:25):
Both, I think.
My work, naturally, will alwaysskew to that whimsy, I think.
For my team I push to give methe weird yeah.
Molly (04:39):
We often.
That sounds also very Austin tome.
Lauren (04:42):
Give me the weird yeah Like well, we'll often have a
brief that is prettystraightforward.
Give me an email for one of ourretargeting campaigns and we're
hitting the brief.
We've, you know, crossed all ofthe T's, all that, but where's
the life in it?
Am I connecting to it?
Not necessarily, so we mighthave to come back and be like,
(05:05):
okay, I want something bonkers,like, make me crazy, make me not
feel like we're sane people.
I want something weird, andoftentimes it's the weird thing
that we're going to end up goingwith, because that's the thing
that's fun.
It's a delicious little messagethat relates to people at Alamo
(05:27):
.
Every year there's a Christmasgift card campaign.
How do we make it interestingevery?
year You're here to sell movies,but you've kind of got a pretty
big sandbox to play in, becausemovies are broad, there's a
whole bunch of them.
You can do whatever you want.
And so we had to, like we gotto figure out, okay, what can be
a relatable thing that we canstill get away with from an IP
(05:50):
situation, because we're notgoing to, like you know, be able
to get Arnold Schwarzenegger tosay boy lollible, drothal evil.
That was a terrible impression.
Oh no it was great.
Molly (06:02):
We want more.
Lauren (06:03):
Oh boy.
But yeah, we had to stickwithin those.
Like, we had to figure out howwe can still be weird but still
get references that people willget there.
So we got weird with props.
We used a rubber horse head andstuffed it and bloodied it and
made it a.
Godfather reference, becausethat could be a gift for someone
(06:25):
.
Molly (06:28):
You might find it in your bed on Christmas morning.
J.B. (06:31):
That's quite a shocking suffer.
Lauren (06:36):
That one was a special project to just get to really
try to figure out how we canmake a reference while staying
within the bounds of what we cando legally and all that
copyright no-transcript.
J.B. (06:53):
This is.
This is a podcast about playtoday and we are going to play a
game.
Have you ever played on MaryShaggerkill?
Oh yeah, Of course.
Lauren (07:03):
I'm nervous.
J.B. (07:04):
Well, this one we call hire, fire boss.
So we're going to give youthree people who you have to
slot into someone that you wantto hire, somebody that you would
fire and somebody that will beyour boss.
So I heard from the grapevinethat you are a fan of RuPaul's
Drag Race.
Is that right?
Oh yeah, all right.
So, oh no.
(07:24):
So Jinx monsoon, trixie Mattelor Alaska Thunderfuck.
Lauren (07:36):
Okay, I would hire Jinx, because Jinx can do anything.
She can do anything, but shealso probably needs someone to
boss her around a little bit.
You know, kind of I think sheneeds some structure, kind of
like Dayla gives her somestructure.
Yeah, trixie, I would, I wouldwork for Really.
J.B. (08:02):
Definitely you would, you would fire Alaska.
Lauren (08:05):
I'd fire Alaska.
Like Alaska is great, Alaska is, you know, legendary.
I'm like she also is a dramastarter.
Come on.
J.B. (08:13):
Fair enough.
Molly (08:13):
JB, how about you?
J.B. (08:15):
I mean I think I would.
I would flip Trixie in Alaska.
I would, I would fire Trixieand hot and want to work for
Alaska.
Lauren (08:25):
Like Trixie is like a mogul Is that the word?
I always get them.
J.B. (08:29):
Alaska is kind of a mogul too and they're all kind of at
this point.
Lauren (08:33):
Oh, like Trixie's got like TV shows.
J.B. (08:35):
That's true.
Lauren (08:35):
Makeup line, a whole hotel.
She a lot she is Lovely.
Molly (08:42):
All right, my turn.
But now we're going to thinkabout professional women in the
workplace, because Fictionalprofessional women though.
Oh for frictional yeah.
Lauren (08:52):
I was like I'm going to burn someone.
Molly (08:54):
I know, oh yeah, fictional professional women in
the workplace because we areworking women, designing women.
Oh yeah, let's get our shoulderpads on.
Yeah, let's do this.
So the options are Elle Woodsfrom Legally Blonde.
Tess McGill from Working GirlJamie, no influencing.
Lauren (09:19):
If you say the next one.
I just hope it's not that,because it might be.
Molly (09:24):
The next one is Jane Craig from Broadcast News.
Lauren (09:28):
Okay, I literally have a picture of her on my desk.
Molly (09:31):
Oh, you do.
Oh, she's my idol.
Oh yeah, Holly Hunter yeah.
Lauren (09:41):
So she's my boss.
Clearly she like literallyknows how to do anything in that
movie, like Accept, capture theheart of William Hurt.
I mean she does.
Molly (09:53):
And then she dumps him because he has loose morals.
She's a working woman.
She doesn't have time for that,yeah.
Lauren (10:00):
Oh, I love her so much.
Yeah, she's, she's a boss.
She knows how to get it done,she knows how to give direct
feedback, she knows how she hassome emotional intelligence.
You know, like unhooking thephone, having a good cry,
getting back to her.
You know, boss self.
J.B. (10:20):
Yeah, no, I'm.
I'm so aligned with you on this, yeah.
Lauren (10:24):
I guess I have to.
Oh gosh, I don't know who I'dfire because L is so great.
Maybe I will, maybe I'll.
I'll fire L because she wouldeasily like land somewhere else.
And she would come back to mein a fabulous outfit and she
would say something so witty andquippy yeah.
Molly (10:44):
She'd snap back her hair and her ponytail and she'd be
just fine, yeah.
J.B. (10:49):
Happy people don't kill people, they don't.
Lauren (10:53):
Endorphins make you happy.
So you would want to work withTess McGill oh yeah, every every
day, and then I'd probably endup like trying to adopt a Jersey
accent that she has.
J.B. (11:04):
Staten Island.
Lauren (11:05):
Staten Island.
J.B. (11:06):
Yeah.
Lauren (11:06):
Yes, yes, I forget which fairy is.
J.B. (11:10):
Staten Island fairy, it's the Staten Island.
Molly (11:12):
Yeah, and you know, harrison Ford is still my heart.
Lauren (11:17):
Yeah, I could like run in and be buds with him and be
like oh hey, did you bring anextra lunchbox?
J.B. (11:23):
Can you go change your shirt in the glass conference
room again?
Molly (11:26):
Yeah, there's just like heart bubbles shooting off over
my head.
J.B. (11:32):
I really wish that we could afford better music for
this podcast, because this iswhen I would let play Carly
Simon.
Let the river run, I don't even.
Lauren (11:44):
He can vomit for a certain amount of time.
J.B. (11:46):
Oh, no, you're not allowed to Y'all, I'm crying.
I'm a little overclimbed.
I feel empowered, so we knowthat play makes us more creative
(12:14):
, it makes us better problemsolvers, it fosters imagination,
it reduces stress, it makes usbetter communicators as well.
We have, like, more socialinteraction, we collaborate,
there's improvisation to playand there's a good deal of self
expression that you bring to it.
So how do you get to that?
(12:35):
So how do you, day to day,encourage play on your teams,
especially when it's highpressure stuff?
Lauren (12:46):
You have to consciously decide to carve out time to be
silly to do something weird.
I made a Slack game on Alamocalled a one word movie game and
the premise is you give one onemovie clue, one word, and
people try to guess the movieand it just is a whole bunch of
threads of people trying toguess and it's just a fun little
(13:09):
way for all of us remotely tokind of connect in and play a
quick thing.
But the game lasts like maybe10 minutes maybe.
Yeah, that was kind of one ofthe ways that we create play.
At Bistot, my lovely boss JillBradley, we do a bi-weekly
(13:29):
session called Creative Chaoswhere we are given a prompt in
the morning and then by the endof the day we have to have a
presentation prepared for it.
So, and it can be anything likeBistot is gonna have a mascot
now, like a mask lack orwhatever.
Figure out the mascot.
I don't imagine Bistot is gonnahave a mascot anytime soon.
Yeah, but it's a really funexercise.
(13:51):
It gets us out of our comfortzone and we have to think
quickly.
We have to practice ourpresentation skills.
I think that's a big thing thatevery creative needs to
practice, that in-housecreatives don't necessarily get
to have access to as much as anagency creative might, yeah.
Molly (14:09):
So I think I'd be really curious to hear, like
process-wise, I come from adesign thinking background, so I
think about what are all thedifferent moments in the process
, what are those key milestonesas a team?
So I'm curious, what's the roleof play in creating these like
weird and bonkers and fabulousend experiences and products.
(14:29):
What's the journey you go onwith your team as a leader?
Lauren (14:32):
I mean, projects are wonderfully different sometimes.
That you're gonna receive themin all kinds of ways, yeah.
But if it starts from a brief,it's gonna go through a couple
of different like people.
It's either gonna hit yourcopywriter, it's gonna hit your
designer, hit an art director ifwe ever got to have one of
those again.
J.B. (14:52):
You will, you will.
Lauren (14:53):
Yeah.
So it starts kind of in thatfun phase of ideation what we do
sometimes with even a littlecampaign, even if it's just
making some social media postsfor the next month, instead of
siloing it out and having oneperson kind of have to grind
through those ideas, we have afun meeting.
(15:13):
Let's put a fig jam together.
Let's make a way to contestthis out so it can make up some
completely bonkers ones thatcompliance would completely
never allow us to use.
We have a Grim Reaper campaignjust waiting to be used.
I think life insurance probablywouldn't.
(15:34):
It's not ready for it, it's notready for it.
Molly (15:35):
Not ready for it.
Lauren (15:37):
Not ready for public use .
Molly (15:38):
No, but it makes us feel good.
Lauren (15:40):
But I think and having those exercises where you're
spending the time going downsome paths that like won't work
out, still makes the finalproduct sing a little bit better
.
Molly (15:52):
Yeah, I love that, sitting inside of IDEO, the
different design teams, I feellike, had rituals and practices
around creative warmups, or it'dbe like lunchtime creative
activities and I always feltlike it was almost like a point
of pride between the differentteams, the type of warmups or
(16:12):
activities they do.
And so every now and thenthere'd be like a confetti
cannon that would shoot off andone team would be like, oh, that
team is getting their creativewarmup on.
Or another team would show upwith some costumes, or you'd
hear people recording poetry orhaikus they'd done in the
morning and so even thinking, Ido feel like it was like a badge
(16:35):
of honor to be part of thosecreative processes.
And you're such a creativeMaven we talked about earlier,
but you have these amazing stopmotion videos.
Is it true that you mold claywhile you're in meetings too?
What's the deal with clay?
What's the deal with?
Lauren (16:53):
clay.
What's the deal with clay?
Molly (16:55):
What's the deal with clay ?
Yes, I do.
Lauren (16:59):
Oh, you've got clay in your hands.
I always have clay with me.
Molly (17:01):
Oh my gosh Listeners, she has clay in her hands right now
it's happened.
Lauren (17:06):
The clay is out.
The clay is always out.
It's, I mean, honestly like ifanyone needs a really quiet,
good fidget type of tool, ifthey're a fidgeter and I most
certainly am I always have clayaround me.
It's a nice grounding thing,and when you're especially in a
meeting that maybe could havebeen an email, it's especially
(17:31):
nice to just mold some claywhile you're while you're going
through that thing, I love that.
Molly (17:36):
What are you molding right now with your clay while
we're chatting?
Lauren (17:40):
Typically, when I'm chatting, I'm just making
squiggles.
J.B. (17:43):
Yeah, no, that's.
I was like that was a worm.
Molly, that was a worm.
She showed it to you.
I saw the worm.
Lauren (17:49):
Here's one of the.
It's just with us.
J.B. (17:53):
Nice.
Lauren (17:53):
Yeah, I've got some other dudes hanging out ready to
get animated at some point.
J.B. (17:59):
What were your other favorite toys when you were a
kid?
Lauren (18:01):
Oddly.
I mean, play-doh was certainlythere, clay is recent, clay is
great.
J.B. (18:08):
I ate the Play-Doh because it was salty.
I really like salty stuff.
Lauren (18:16):
I'm hoping they've like changed the taste.
J.B. (18:18):
Yeah, I know it seems like it.
I mean I'm hoping it'snon-toxic, but you shouldn't eat
it.
Kids don't eat the Play-Doh.
Micah's feeding me a line thatit all turned out OK and I was
like I'm actually not sure itdid turn out all OK.
The reason I didn't I didn't goto Harvard was because of the
Play-Doh.
It was definitely, definitelythe Play-Doh.
Molly (18:41):
I love it.
I love it.
Have you noticed any creativehabits that your team members
have?
Are they molding clay?
What are your peeps doing tostay engaged and interested in
the work?
Yeah, I'm going to out my peepshere.
Lauren (18:57):
We've got a potter.
Oh, she does pottery.
That's her kind of side thing.
She also bakes.
We've got one who makes puppets.
Molly (19:07):
Oh yeah, oh my gosh.
It seems like you guys couldput on a little playhouse, or
between the videos and thepuppets.
Lauren (19:16):
Yeah, my goal is to just create a theater company with
all of my graphic designers andcopywriters, and they'll just
somehow love to perform andit'll be this magical adventure.
Do it.
I do think we underestimate theamount of introverted creatives
there are, and I am one of them.
J.B. (19:34):
Why is that?
Lauren (19:35):
Well, I think creativity doesn't fall on that.
I think it falls anywhere onthat spectrum.
It works regardless.
It's wonderful that way.
Molly (19:42):
What would be your wisdom for introverted creatives?
Because if you're looking inthe agency world, where you are
constantly client-oriented andpersonal brand matters, which
tends to be sort of anextroverted skill set, what
would be your wisdom forsupporting introverted creatives
and helping them do their bestwork on extroverted teams?
Lauren (20:04):
Yeah, I think you have to rethink brainstorms
Completely.
If you just do a brainstorm inwhat maybe people think of a
regular place, like we're allsitting in a room and just
throwing out ideas, like that isan extroverts palace.
What I've done is makestructured brainstorms.
(20:25):
So we'll set up a fake jam.
We'll set up the questions andwe'll give them a day, maybe two
days in advance for them tokind of think through responses
and let them ruminate.
Oftentimes that's what they'regoing to need in order to
actually show up.
We do the same thing in ourcreative chaos, where we get a
prompt, but then they get thetime that they need by
(20:46):
themselves to figure it out andhash through stuff, not in a
public way.
J.B. (20:51):
I think that's really wise .
The best ideas very rarely comeout in an active brainstorm.
They happen like two or threedays later.
Lauren (21:02):
After you figured out that that one idea was not great
.
J.B. (21:05):
Exactly, and you just start building on that or
something that annoying thatsomebody said that was like this
just like starts gnawing at youand you go off on a different
direction.
I think that that time to sitwith the questions is really
important, so that's a practicethat I think that I'll bring
into my own work.
Molly (21:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
And when you think aboutyourself as like a leading team,
what do you think yourintrovert superpower is?
What's different?
I don't know, this could be myown biases, but extroverted
folks might be the ones that areclimbing the ladder.
And so how do you lead as anintrovert?
Lauren (21:42):
It's a struggle, I feel like for most introverts.
It's hard to see their ambitioneasily.
Because an extroverted one isgoing to put it on a billboard
right behind them and you'regoing to know that, ok, they
want to be a creative directorsomeday.
Let's put them down that path.
I think one-on-ones are alwaysreally important.
(22:03):
That's where you can have thoseconversations, that's where an
introvert can thrive and theycan be able to share what
they're really wanting to do.
And I think nowadays, ambitionisn't necessarily something that
is something that people arestriving for, or it's a
different ambition.
I guess it's not.
(22:25):
Oh, I need to get thatpromotion, I need to get that
title.
It's.
I want my balance, I wantboundaries, and I think that's
an interesting turning point.
Molly (22:35):
I mean, I know JB and I have had these conversations as
friends around.
I think it's age where we arein our career, where we are in
our lives so much that welearned during COVID about life
improving in some interestingways, where there's some dark
moments, oh yeah, but those darkmoments created some real
(22:56):
shifts and how I'm living andthe way I'm working and the type
of work I want to be doing.
I think it's one of the reasonswe actually started Unserious
just wanting to work and learnand be in the world in different
ways and have the chance tolearn from folks like you, which
is a different type of ambitionthan being like I got to get
(23:17):
myself into the C-suite.
Are you seeing that also onyour teams and friends in the
Austin area?
Lauren (23:22):
Yeah, I feel like I especially see it interestingly
with my younger creatives, thosein their 20s.
I just remember being in my 20sand thinking I got to move up,
I got to get, I got to level up.
I need to get to the next thingand I have found that a lot of
(23:43):
my younger creatives that I knowthey don't exhibit that need to
become an art director.
They're very happy as a graphicdesigner.
They're very happy in that role.
If it's feeding them, givingthem what they need, and they're
able to kind of live their life, I think it's very impressive.
I still struggle with it.
(24:04):
I think about those levels morethan I want to.
J.B. (24:08):
Yeah, well, there's a culture I mean at lots of
different companies there's anup or out culture where, no
matter how much you love theproblem and are talented in
addressing it, if you're notleveling up you're not growing,
which is a false thought.
Lauren (24:27):
Yeah Well, and I think there's ways to encourage
development outside of the levelup.
J.B. (24:32):
Completely.
Molly (24:33):
And it kind of goes back to your original discussion
around the importance of joy andhow play and creativity and
that whimsy is creates a joyfulenvironment and experience and
how important that is for thebest creative work.
J.B. (24:49):
Yeah.
Molly (24:50):
Yeah, back with more in just a moment.
So you are in the creativefield and the creative field is
being really kind of rockedright now by the world of AI,
(25:13):
and so you know, speaking ofplay at work, are you or your
teams playing with generative AItools like mid journey, dolly
chat, gpt, in the creativeprocess or just for fun?
Lauren (25:27):
Yes, I'm pretty sure our copywriter just made like a
horse head Elvis for some funproject.
Yeah, yeah, we certainly playwith them.
We certainly use them as arubber duck.
I think that's the phrase.
I don't know what a rubber duckis yeah.
J.B. (25:47):
What do you mean by that?
Lauren (25:48):
It comes from.
So it comes from, I think, likean engineering side of things.
So you would put a rubber duckon your desk and if you had a
question, instead of asking yourfellow engineer, you would ask
the duck first.
And typically, if you're justvocalizing your problem, you're
figuring out the solution asyou're vocalizing it.
So I often use, like chat, gptas a rubber duck.
Molly (26:12):
Totally.
Lauren (26:12):
And it's probably going to give me the worst answer,
because it still doesn't reallyknow creativity yet, which is
comforting, but it's also a yet,yeah.
J.B. (26:21):
Do you think this is going to obscure individuality and
uniqueness?
Lauren (26:26):
We're getting into such a weird area, I think,
especially on visual AI toolslike mid journey, it's literally
learning from other people'sart, and so how is it going to
make any original art?
Really, that seems veryethically dubious.
I do feel like us humans arestill going to keep making
(26:48):
original art.
I mean, I work in stop motionand that art form died when ILM
started making CGI stuff.
So I still feel confident inhumans that they're still going
to figure out how to make art,with and without it.
But there's the question of whoowns what.
It's really interesting because, like from a creative director
(27:08):
standpoint, I give that to anartist, I say I want XYZ.
I say I want you to do all thisand this is what I'm thinking,
and then they produce and Irefine and we go from there.
Asking that to a computer isnot that different, yeah, but I
still feel like that's stealingfrom a whole bunch of legitimate
(27:28):
artists who worked hours andhours and hours and hours
refining their skill.
And I'm getting this in seconds.
That's creepy.
J.B. (27:38):
So you've got young up and coming designers and marketers
on your team.
What is your advice for howthey harness AI to improve their
work and improve the process inthe outputs?
Lauren (27:51):
Yeah, I think they absolutely need to learn it
because, like, the more thatthey can figure out how to
articulate what they're wantingthe AI to output, they will make
better work.
So they need to at least learnthe skill because, like, the
industry is going to keep movingwith it, what?
Molly (28:10):
do you think about for, like new folks who are new in
their creative careers, if AIcan do the work, how do you get
your 10,000 hours in?
So you get to be great, becausethat's where things become
really interesting is as you arefurther along in your career
and you know what good lookslike and you know how to create
those emotional connections andgive them the weird.
What would be your wisdom forthose young folks?
Lauren (28:36):
I legitimately feel scared.
I feel scared for the juniorcreative, for the junior
engineer.
I got my start because weneeded someone to retouch things
at Alamo, like I needed to beable to resize banners, yeah and
so I feel nervous aboutcompanies still having jobs like
(28:56):
that.
I still think if they'restaying curious about it and if
they're relentlessly curiouswith it and wanting to learn and
always learn a new skill,you're going to get your 10,000
hours in anyway.
Maybe you're going to be anamazing AI artist.
Maybe I wouldn't shy away fromthe tech, but I'd also not rely
on it.
J.B. (29:16):
Yeah.
Lauren (29:16):
It's a weird time.
J.B. (29:17):
It is, but we've had these weird times before.
I mean, there was pre-digitalart.
It's hard to remember that, butlike pre-1995, people in design
roles didn't practice theircraft on computers generally.
Lauren (29:34):
Yeah, they had drafting boards.
J.B. (29:36):
And there was a very niche field of, like graphic
designers.
Remember graphic design?
Lauren (29:41):
Oh yeah, and they were a lot of them dudes.
J.B. (29:44):
And they were like the dude with the Mac.
Lauren (29:46):
Yes, the dude with the Mac.
Oh yeah, it is an interestingtime where I always think about
when stop motion, when stopmotion stopped being the way for
special effects and it went tocomputer generated art, and that
was scary.
And I still feel because I'mlike, oh, think about all those
model makers and sculptorartists that don't have jobs.
(30:08):
They'll figure it out, they'lllike people will bounce back.
We are amazingly resilient.
J.B. (30:12):
We are.
I remain more of an optimisthere and I think that, like we
will see this, we willexperience another massive shift
, but I think that there areoutcomes that we haven't
imagined yet that will take usin a new direction, which is
(30:33):
interesting and fun and keeps memotivated to keep having
conversations like this andlearning more.
Lauren, this has been such afantastic conversation.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and thank you for
sharing all of these strategiesfor helping teams be more
creative and playful.
(30:53):
Where can people find more outabout you online?
Lauren (30:57):
Yeah, if you want to see some weird clay videos, you can
follow me at lopsidedloren, Ithink, on both TikTok and
Instagram, or you can connectwith me on LinkedIn or something
.
Be fun.
J.B. (31:11):
Fabulous.
Thank you so much.
I hope you have a great weekend.
Lauren (31:14):
Yeah, you too.
J.B. (31:19):
God, that was a great conversation.
I completely related toLauren's ethos of seeking out
new and different experiencesover the course of a career
Totally.
I think getting into new spaces, new industries and solving new
problems, where we get to learnand experiment and grow, is
such an interesting way tothread together the arc of a
(31:41):
career.
It seems counterintuitive, butbeing that serial beginner is
actually a great way to developreally real, deep wisdom really
quickly.
I kept hearing that wisdom comethrough in our conversation
with Lauren.
Molly (31:56):
Yeah, I love that.
J.B. (31:58):
I also really like to approach to experimenting with
AI as a rubber duck.
I'd never heard that termbefore Me.
Neither I agree with her thatAI is not yet ready to replace
human artistic creativity Rightnow.
All of these AGI platforms relyon vocabulary, and the creative
vocabulary of professionalartists, professional designers,
(32:20):
professional writers andcreatives is so much richer than
it is for non-professionals.
If you're expecting magic fromAI, one great way to get that
magic is to hire a greatcreative.
Molly (32:34):
A thousand percent.
J.B. (32:37):
Also, I'm ready to go rewatch broadcast news this
weekend.
I need to go re-familiarizemyself with Jane Craig.
Molly (32:44):
Oh my gosh, me too, no doubt Lauren truly is a mix of
Jane Craig meets Tess McGill.
Lauren (32:50):
I kept thinking when she was talking.
Molly (32:52):
Can I be her when I grow up?
Because I got quieter, I gotmore curious.
I felt like sparks of joy as Iheard her talk about how she
catalyzes amazing work andcreativity on her diverse teams
and I really loved the focus onthe power of creative introverts
(33:13):
.
Then I also wouldn't it bereally cool if I made a cameo
appearance in one of her stopmotion films?
A little claymation Molly.
I think that would be prettyboss.
I think the whole world needsthat.
Totally, and I think bonkersmight have to become a new
criteria for joy for me.
If I'm going to measure joy inmy life, how bonkers do I feel?
(33:36):
How bonkers was it?
Yeah, and get ready, becausegive me the weird is going to be
my new mantra.
Good, we might hear it againhere on Unserious Give me the
weird.
Fasten your seatbelts, folks.
J.B. (33:54):
I ate the play dough because it was salty Kids don't
eat the play dough.
This is Unserious.
In 25 years of working, I knowthis much to be true.
Joy and high performance aretightly correlated, but don't
take my word for it.
Harvard Business Review agreeswith me.
Joy and high performance arecritical attributes of the most
(00:28):
creative teams in the world.
Joyful Workplaces see reducedturnover, higher productivity,
better safety and greatercollaboration.
They also have happieremployees, and it won't shock
anyone that happier employeesare more creative, innovative
and dedicated.
Some of the leaders I admiremost use play to weave joy into
(00:49):
their creative processes andoutputs.
They're also the leaders Iwould work for again in the
heartbeat.
So it's worth asking how canplay help our teams produce
better, more innovative and morepersonally satisfying work?
Our guest today likes to getshit done and have fun often at
the same time.
Lauren Cook is a creativedirector, designer and marketer
(01:11):
behind such brands as Bestow,snap Kitchen, alamo, draft House
and its sister brand, mondo.
Lauren is also a generative andplayful maker who can't be
contained by her day job alone.
She's executive, produced shortfilms, sews handmade goods and
produces incredibly fun stopmotion videos.
Lauren, thank you for joiningus today from sunny Austin,
(01:32):
texas.
Lauren (01:33):
Oh, thank you, I'm happy to be here.
J.B. (01:37):
So you're working in life insurance?
At Bestow, consumer products,at Snap Kitchen.
Lauren (01:42):
Yes, some fun, easy to heat up meals.
J.B. (01:46):
Entertainment and hospitality over at Alamo Draft
House.
Molly (01:50):
Fan favorite.
J.B. (01:51):
And Mondo it's the one that we're most familiar with
because we have an Alamo DraftHouse here in the mission but,
like these are all reallydifferent companies where you've
led creative teams and you'rethe common denominator so far as
I could tell, the only commondenominator.
What is the through line to allof this?
What is your ethos for work?
Lauren (02:11):
I think I am definitely a curious person, so I'm going
to just be interested in a wholenew thing, like throw something
new at me and that's going tobe the exciting part of it.
I want to learn a whole newindustry.
I knew nothing about lifeinsurance when I joined Bestow.
I was just fully ignorant, butit was a great team.
(02:32):
They have taught me so much.
I now understand the basics ofunderwriting and how it all
works and the value that itbrings, and I think getting to
have those opportunities to workin a different industry often
is always exciting.
So I think I'll keep doing thatin my career.
I'd love to keep bouncingaround.
Molly (02:53):
Yeah, I totally get that.
I'm starting a new positionright now and I'm loving it and
what I like is that I'm just onlike steep learning curve and I
always find that it's sort oflike visiting another country or
traveling to another part ofthe world, and so I'm curious,
with all this whimsy andcreativity that you have, you do
(03:15):
your videos, you sew, you'vehad an Etsy store how does that
come into your world of work?
Lauren (03:21):
I think it just kind of gets forced out of me.
I can't help myself when itcomes to whimsy and creativity.
I'm going to figure out a wayto make something playful,
because I think joy is such agreat emotion to share and to
create, and so if I can findthat element within a cute
(03:43):
little photo shoot that has amicrowave meal, I'll do that at
Snap.
Molly (03:47):
But yeah, it's something.
Lauren (03:49):
at Alamo, where we're man, we were creating joy all
the time.
I mean, it was it'sentertainment.
That's lovely.
It's been a challenge in lifeinsurance, since it's such a
serious topic.
How do we bring in that joy andthat playfulness?
But I think a lot of it is like.
Humans relate to joy, theyrelate to play.
We've all been kids once, sogoing back to some foundational
(04:14):
kid feelings sometimes, I think,is a really powerful way to get
your message out there.
Molly (04:21):
Do you do that through, like the work that you create or
how you interact with your teammembers?
Lauren (04:25):
Both, I think.
My work, naturally, will alwaysskew to that whimsy, I think.
For my team I push to give methe weird yeah.
Molly (04:39):
We often.
That sounds also very Austin tome.
Lauren (04:42):
Give me the weird yeah Like well, we'll often have a
brief that is prettystraightforward.
Give me an email for one of ourretargeting campaigns and we're
hitting the brief.
We've, you know, crossed all ofthe T's, all that, but where's
the life in it?
Am I connecting to it?
Not necessarily, so we mighthave to come back and be like,
(05:05):
okay, I want something bonkers,like, make me crazy, make me not
feel like we're sane people.
I want something weird, andoftentimes it's the weird thing
that we're going to end up goingwith, because that's the thing
that's fun.
It's a delicious little messagethat relates to people at Alamo
(05:27):
.
Every year there's a Christmasgift card campaign.
How do we make it interestingevery?
year You're here to sell movies,but you've kind of got a pretty
big sandbox to play in, becausemovies are broad, there's a
whole bunch of them.
You can do whatever you want.
And so we had to, like we gotto figure out, okay, what can be
a relatable thing that we canstill get away with from an IP
(05:50):
situation, because we're notgoing to, like you know, be able
to get Arnold Schwarzenegger tosay boy lollible, drothal evil.
That was a terrible impression.
Oh no it was great.
Molly (06:02):
We want more.
Lauren (06:03):
Oh boy.
But yeah, we had to stickwithin those.
Like, we had to figure out howwe can still be weird but still
get references that people willget there.
So we got weird with props.
We used a rubber horse head andstuffed it and bloodied it and
made it a.
Godfather reference, becausethat could be a gift for someone
(06:25):
.
Molly (06:28):
You might find it in your bed on Christmas morning.
J.B. (06:31):
That's quite a shocking suffer.
Lauren (06:36):
That one was a special project to just get to really
try to figure out how we canmake a reference while staying
within the bounds of what we cando legally and all that
copyright no-transcript.
J.B. (06:53):
This is.
This is a podcast about playtoday and we are going to play a
game.
Have you ever played on MaryShaggerkill?
Oh yeah, Of course.
Lauren (07:03):
I'm nervous.
J.B. (07:04):
Well, this one we call hire, fire boss.
So we're going to give youthree people who you have to
slot into someone that you wantto hire, somebody that you would
fire and somebody that will beyour boss.
So I heard from the grapevinethat you are a fan of RuPaul's
Drag Race.
Is that right?
Oh yeah, all right.
So, oh no.
(07:24):
So Jinx monsoon, trixie Mattelor Alaska Thunderfuck.
Lauren (07:36):
Okay, I would hire Jinx, because Jinx can do anything.
She can do anything, but shealso probably needs someone to
boss her around a little bit.
You know, kind of I think sheneeds some structure, kind of
like Dayla gives her somestructure.
Yeah, trixie, I would, I wouldwork for Really.
J.B. (08:02):
Definitely you would, you would fire Alaska.
Lauren (08:05):
I'd fire Alaska.
Like Alaska is great, Alaska is, you know, legendary.
I'm like she also is a dramastarter.
Come on.
J.B. (08:13):
Fair enough.
Molly (08:13):
JB, how about you?
J.B. (08:15):
I mean I think I would.
I would flip Trixie in Alaska.
I would, I would fire Trixieand hot and want to work for
Alaska.
Lauren (08:25):
Like Trixie is like a mogul Is that the word?
I always get them.
J.B. (08:29):
Alaska is kind of a mogul too and they're all kind of at
this point.
Lauren (08:33):
Oh, like Trixie's got like TV shows.
J.B. (08:35):
That's true.
Lauren (08:35):
Makeup line, a whole hotel.
She a lot she is Lovely.
Molly (08:42):
All right, my turn.
But now we're going to thinkabout professional women in the
workplace, because Fictionalprofessional women though.
Oh for frictional yeah.
Lauren (08:52):
I was like I'm going to burn someone.
Molly (08:54):
I know, oh yeah, fictional professional women in
the workplace because we areworking women, designing women.
Oh yeah, let's get our shoulderpads on.
Yeah, let's do this.
So the options are Elle Woodsfrom Legally Blonde.
Tess McGill from Working GirlJamie, no influencing.
Lauren (09:19):
If you say the next one.
I just hope it's not that,because it might be.
Molly (09:24):
The next one is Jane Craig from Broadcast News.
Lauren (09:28):
Okay, I literally have a picture of her on my desk.
Molly (09:31):
Oh, you do.
Oh, she's my idol.
Oh yeah, Holly Hunter yeah.
Lauren (09:41):
So she's my boss.
Clearly she like literallyknows how to do anything in that
movie, like Accept, capture theheart of William Hurt.
I mean she does.
Molly (09:53):
And then she dumps him because he has loose morals.
She's a working woman.
She doesn't have time for that,yeah.
Lauren (10:00):
Oh, I love her so much.
Yeah, she's, she's a boss.
She knows how to get it done,she knows how to give direct
feedback, she knows how she hassome emotional intelligence.
You know, like unhooking thephone, having a good cry,
getting back to her.
You know, boss self.
J.B. (10:20):
Yeah, no, I'm.
I'm so aligned with you on this, yeah.
Lauren (10:24):
I guess I have to.
Oh gosh, I don't know who I'dfire because L is so great.
Maybe I will, maybe I'll.
I'll fire L because she wouldeasily like land somewhere else.
And she would come back to mein a fabulous outfit and she
would say something so witty andquippy yeah.
Molly (10:44):
She'd snap back her hair and her ponytail and she'd be
just fine, yeah.
J.B. (10:49):
Happy people don't kill people, they don't.
Lauren (10:53):
Endorphins make you happy.
So you would want to work withTess McGill oh yeah, every every
day, and then I'd probably endup like trying to adopt a Jersey
accent that she has.
J.B. (11:04):
Staten Island.
Lauren (11:05):
Staten Island.
J.B. (11:06):
Yeah.
Lauren (11:06):
Yes, yes, I forget which fairy is.
J.B. (11:10):
Staten Island fairy, it's the Staten Island.
Molly (11:12):
Yeah, and you know, harrison Ford is still my heart.
Lauren (11:17):
Yeah, I could like run in and be buds with him and be
like oh hey, did you bring anextra lunchbox?
J.B. (11:23):
Can you go change your shirt in the glass conference
room again?
Molly (11:26):
Yeah, there's just like heart bubbles shooting off over
my head.
J.B. (11:32):
I really wish that we could afford better music for
this podcast, because this iswhen I would let play Carly
Simon.
Let the river run, I don't even.
Lauren (11:44):
He can vomit for a certain amount of time.
J.B. (11:46):
Oh, no, you're not allowed to Y'all, I'm crying.
I'm a little overclimbed.
I feel empowered, so we knowthat play makes us more creative
(12:14):
, it makes us better problemsolvers, it fosters imagination,
it reduces stress, it makes usbetter communicators as well.
We have, like, more socialinteraction, we collaborate,
there's improvisation to playand there's a good deal of self
expression that you bring to it.
So how do you get to that?
(12:35):
So how do you, day to day,encourage play on your teams,
especially when it's highpressure stuff?
Lauren (12:46):
You have to consciously decide to carve out time to be
silly to do something weird.
I made a Slack game on Alamocalled a one word movie game and
the premise is you give one onemovie clue, one word, and
people try to guess the movieand it just is a whole bunch of
threads of people trying toguess and it's just a fun little
(13:09):
way for all of us remotely tokind of connect in and play a
quick thing.
But the game lasts like maybe10 minutes maybe.
Yeah, that was kind of one ofthe ways that we create play.
At Bistot, my lovely boss JillBradley, we do a bi-weekly
(13:29):
session called Creative Chaoswhere we are given a prompt in
the morning and then by the endof the day we have to have a
presentation prepared for it.
So, and it can be anything likeBistot is gonna have a mascot
now, like a mask lack orwhatever.
Figure out the mascot.
I don't imagine Bistot is gonnahave a mascot anytime soon.
Yeah, but it's a really funexercise.
(13:51):
It gets us out of our comfortzone and we have to think
quickly.
We have to practice ourpresentation skills.
I think that's a big thing thatevery creative needs to
practice, that in-housecreatives don't necessarily get
to have access to as much as anagency creative might, yeah.
Molly (14:09):
So I think I'd be really curious to hear, like
process-wise, I come from adesign thinking background, so I
think about what are all thedifferent moments in the process
, what are those key milestonesas a team?
So I'm curious, what's the roleof play in creating these like
weird and bonkers and fabulousend experiences and products.
(14:29):
What's the journey you go onwith your team as a leader?
Lauren (14:32):
I mean, projects are wonderfully different sometimes.
That you're gonna receive themin all kinds of ways, yeah.
But if it starts from a brief,it's gonna go through a couple
of different like people.
It's either gonna hit yourcopywriter, it's gonna hit your
designer, hit an art director ifwe ever got to have one of
those again.
J.B. (14:52):
You will, you will.
Lauren (14:53):
Yeah.
So it starts kind of in thatfun phase of ideation what we do
sometimes with even a littlecampaign, even if it's just
making some social media postsfor the next month, instead of
siloing it out and having oneperson kind of have to grind
through those ideas, we have afun meeting.
(15:13):
Let's put a fig jam together.
Let's make a way to contestthis out so it can make up some
completely bonkers ones thatcompliance would completely
never allow us to use.
We have a Grim Reaper campaignjust waiting to be used.
I think life insurance probablywouldn't.
(15:34):
It's not ready for it, it's notready for it.
Molly (15:35):
Not ready for it.
Lauren (15:37):
Not ready for public use .
Molly (15:38):
No, but it makes us feel good.
Lauren (15:40):
But I think and having those exercises where you're
spending the time going downsome paths that like won't work
out, still makes the finalproduct sing a little bit better
.
Molly (15:52):
Yeah, I love that, sitting inside of IDEO, the
different design teams, I feellike, had rituals and practices
around creative warmups, or it'dbe like lunchtime creative
activities and I always feltlike it was almost like a point
of pride between the differentteams, the type of warmups or
(16:12):
activities they do.
And so every now and thenthere'd be like a confetti
cannon that would shoot off andone team would be like, oh, that
team is getting their creativewarmup on.
Or another team would show upwith some costumes, or you'd
hear people recording poetry orhaikus they'd done in the
morning and so even thinking, Ido feel like it was like a badge
(16:35):
of honor to be part of thosecreative processes.
And you're such a creativeMaven we talked about earlier,
but you have these amazing stopmotion videos.
Is it true that you mold claywhile you're in meetings too?
What's the deal with clay?
What's the deal with?
Lauren (16:53):
clay.
What's the deal with clay?
Molly (16:55):
What's the deal with clay ?
Yes, I do.
Lauren (16:59):
Oh, you've got clay in your hands.
I always have clay with me.
Molly (17:01):
Oh my gosh Listeners, she has clay in her hands right now
it's happened.
Lauren (17:06):
The clay is out.
The clay is always out.
It's, I mean, honestly like ifanyone needs a really quiet,
good fidget type of tool, ifthey're a fidgeter and I most
certainly am I always have clayaround me.
It's a nice grounding thing,and when you're especially in a
meeting that maybe could havebeen an email, it's especially
(17:31):
nice to just mold some claywhile you're while you're going
through that thing, I love that.
Molly (17:36):
What are you molding right now with your clay while
we're chatting?
Lauren (17:40):
Typically, when I'm chatting, I'm just making
squiggles.
J.B. (17:43):
Yeah, no, that's.
I was like that was a worm.
Molly, that was a worm.
She showed it to you.
I saw the worm.
Lauren (17:49):
Here's one of the.
It's just with us.
J.B. (17:53):
Nice.
Lauren (17:53):
Yeah, I've got some other dudes hanging out ready to
get animated at some point.
J.B. (17:59):
What were your other favorite toys when you were a
kid?
Lauren (18:01):
Oddly.
I mean, play-doh was certainlythere, clay is recent, clay is
great.
J.B. (18:08):
I ate the Play-Doh because it was salty.
I really like salty stuff.
Lauren (18:16):
I'm hoping they've like changed the taste.
J.B. (18:18):
Yeah, I know it seems like it.
I mean I'm hoping it'snon-toxic, but you shouldn't eat
it.
Kids don't eat the Play-Doh.
Micah's feeding me a line thatit all turned out OK and I was
like I'm actually not sure itdid turn out all OK.
The reason I didn't I didn't goto Harvard was because of the
Play-Doh.
It was definitely, definitelythe Play-Doh.
Molly (18:41):
I love it.
I love it.
Have you noticed any creativehabits that your team members
have?
Are they molding clay?
What are your peeps doing tostay engaged and interested in
the work?
Yeah, I'm going to out my peepshere.
Lauren (18:57):
We've got a potter.
Oh, she does pottery.
That's her kind of side thing.
She also bakes.
We've got one who makes puppets.
Molly (19:07):
Oh yeah, oh my gosh.
It seems like you guys couldput on a little playhouse, or
between the videos and thepuppets.
Lauren (19:16):
Yeah, my goal is to just create a theater company with
all of my graphic designers andcopywriters, and they'll just
somehow love to perform andit'll be this magical adventure.
Do it.
I do think we underestimate theamount of introverted creatives
there are, and I am one of them.
J.B. (19:34):
Why is that?
Lauren (19:35):
Well, I think creativity doesn't fall on that.
I think it falls anywhere onthat spectrum.
It works regardless.
It's wonderful that way.
Molly (19:42):
What would be your wisdom for introverted creatives?
Because if you're looking inthe agency world, where you are
constantly client-oriented andpersonal brand matters, which
tends to be sort of anextroverted skill set, what
would be your wisdom forsupporting introverted creatives
and helping them do their bestwork on extroverted teams?
Lauren (20:04):
Yeah, I think you have to rethink brainstorms
Completely.
If you just do a brainstorm inwhat maybe people think of a
regular place, like we're allsitting in a room and just
throwing out ideas, like that isan extroverts palace.
What I've done is makestructured brainstorms.
(20:25):
So we'll set up a fake jam.
We'll set up the questions andwe'll give them a day, maybe two
days in advance for them tokind of think through responses
and let them ruminate.
Oftentimes that's what they'regoing to need in order to
actually show up.
We do the same thing in ourcreative chaos, where we get a
prompt, but then they get thetime that they need by
(20:46):
themselves to figure it out andhash through stuff, not in a
public way.
J.B. (20:51):
I think that's really wise .
The best ideas very rarely comeout in an active brainstorm.
They happen like two or threedays later.
Lauren (21:02):
After you figured out that that one idea was not great
.
J.B. (21:05):
Exactly, and you just start building on that or
something that annoying thatsomebody said that was like this
just like starts gnawing at youand you go off on a different
direction.
I think that that time to sitwith the questions is really
important, so that's a practicethat I think that I'll bring
into my own work.
Molly (21:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
And when you think aboutyourself as like a leading team,
what do you think yourintrovert superpower is?
What's different?
I don't know, this could be myown biases, but extroverted
folks might be the ones that areclimbing the ladder.
And so how do you lead as anintrovert?
Lauren (21:42):
It's a struggle, I feel like for most introverts.
It's hard to see their ambitioneasily.
Because an extroverted one isgoing to put it on a billboard
right behind them and you'regoing to know that, ok, they
want to be a creative directorsomeday.
Let's put them down that path.
I think one-on-ones are alwaysreally important.
(22:03):
That's where you can have thoseconversations, that's where an
introvert can thrive and theycan be able to share what
they're really wanting to do.
And I think nowadays, ambitionisn't necessarily something that
is something that people arestriving for, or it's a
different ambition.
I guess it's not.
(22:25):
Oh, I need to get thatpromotion, I need to get that
title.
It's.
I want my balance, I wantboundaries, and I think that's
an interesting turning point.
Molly (22:35):
I mean, I know JB and I have had these conversations as
friends around.
I think it's age where we arein our career, where we are in
our lives so much that welearned during COVID about life
improving in some interestingways, where there's some dark
moments, oh yeah, but those darkmoments created some real
(22:56):
shifts and how I'm living andthe way I'm working and the type
of work I want to be doing.
I think it's one of the reasonswe actually started Unserious
just wanting to work and learnand be in the world in different
ways and have the chance tolearn from folks like you, which
is a different type of ambitionthan being like I got to get
(23:17):
myself into the C-suite.
Are you seeing that also onyour teams and friends in the
Austin area?
Lauren (23:22):
Yeah, I feel like I especially see it interestingly
with my younger creatives, thosein their 20s.
I just remember being in my 20sand thinking I got to move up,
I got to get, I got to level up.
I need to get to the next thingand I have found that a lot of
(23:43):
my younger creatives that I knowthey don't exhibit that need to
become an art director.
They're very happy as a graphicdesigner.
They're very happy in that role.
If it's feeding them, givingthem what they need, and they're
able to kind of live their life, I think it's very impressive.
I still struggle with it.
(24:04):
I think about those levels morethan I want to.
J.B. (24:08):
Yeah, well, there's a culture I mean at lots of
different companies there's anup or out culture where, no
matter how much you love theproblem and are talented in
addressing it, if you're notleveling up you're not growing,
which is a false thought.
Lauren (24:27):
Yeah Well, and I think there's ways to encourage
development outside of the levelup.
J.B. (24:32):
Completely.
Molly (24:33):
And it kind of goes back to your original discussion
around the importance of joy andhow play and creativity and
that whimsy is creates a joyfulenvironment and experience and
how important that is for thebest creative work.
J.B. (24:49):
Yeah.
Molly (24:50):
Yeah, back with more in just a moment.
So you are in the creativefield and the creative field is
being really kind of rockedright now by the world of AI,
(25:13):
and so you know, speaking ofplay at work, are you or your
teams playing with generative AItools like mid journey, dolly
chat, gpt, in the creativeprocess or just for fun?
Lauren (25:27):
Yes, I'm pretty sure our copywriter just made like a
horse head Elvis for some funproject.
Yeah, yeah, we certainly playwith them.
We certainly use them as arubber duck.
I think that's the phrase.
I don't know what a rubber duckis yeah.
J.B. (25:47):
What do you mean by that?
Lauren (25:48):
It comes from.
So it comes from, I think, likean engineering side of things.
So you would put a rubber duckon your desk and if you had a
question, instead of asking yourfellow engineer, you would ask
the duck first.
And typically, if you're justvocalizing your problem, you're
figuring out the solution asyou're vocalizing it.
So I often use, like chat, gptas a rubber duck.
Molly (26:12):
Totally.
Lauren (26:12):
And it's probably going to give me the worst answer,
because it still doesn't reallyknow creativity yet, which is
comforting, but it's also a yet,yeah.
J.B. (26:21):
Do you think this is going to obscure individuality and
uniqueness?
Lauren (26:26):
We're getting into such a weird area, I think,
especially on visual AI toolslike mid journey, it's literally
learning from other people'sart, and so how is it going to
make any original art?
Really, that seems veryethically dubious.
I do feel like us humans arestill going to keep making
(26:48):
original art.
I mean, I work in stop motionand that art form died when ILM
started making CGI stuff.
So I still feel confident inhumans that they're still going
to figure out how to make art,with and without it.
But there's the question of whoowns what.
It's really interesting because, like from a creative director
(27:08):
standpoint, I give that to anartist, I say I want XYZ.
I say I want you to do all thisand this is what I'm thinking,
and then they produce and Irefine and we go from there.
Asking that to a computer isnot that different, yeah, but I
still feel like that's stealingfrom a whole bunch of legitimate
(27:28):
artists who worked hours andhours and hours and hours
refining their skill.
And I'm getting this in seconds.
That's creepy.
J.B. (27:38):
So you've got young up and coming designers and marketers
on your team.
What is your advice for howthey harness AI to improve their
work and improve the process inthe outputs?
Lauren (27:51):
Yeah, I think they absolutely need to learn it
because, like, the more thatthey can figure out how to
articulate what they're wantingthe AI to output, they will make
better work.
So they need to at least learnthe skill because, like, the
industry is going to keep movingwith it, what?
Molly (28:10):
do you think about for, like new folks who are new in
their creative careers, if AIcan do the work, how do you get
your 10,000 hours in?
So you get to be great, becausethat's where things become
really interesting is as you arefurther along in your career
and you know what good lookslike and you know how to create
those emotional connections andgive them the weird.
What would be your wisdom forthose young folks?
Lauren (28:36):
I legitimately feel scared.
I feel scared for the juniorcreative, for the junior
engineer.
I got my start because weneeded someone to retouch things
at Alamo, like I needed to beable to resize banners, yeah and
so I feel nervous aboutcompanies still having jobs like
(28:56):
that.
I still think if they'restaying curious about it and if
they're relentlessly curiouswith it and wanting to learn and
always learn a new skill,you're going to get your 10,000
hours in anyway.
Maybe you're going to be anamazing AI artist.
Maybe I wouldn't shy away fromthe tech, but I'd also not rely
on it.
J.B. (29:16):
Yeah.
Lauren (29:16):
It's a weird time.
J.B. (29:17):
It is, but we've had these weird times before.
I mean, there was pre-digitalart.
It's hard to remember that, butlike pre-1995, people in design
roles didn't practice theircraft on computers generally.
Lauren (29:34):
Yeah, they had drafting boards.
J.B. (29:36):
And there was a very niche field of, like graphic
designers.
Remember graphic design?
Lauren (29:41):
Oh yeah, and they were a lot of them dudes.
J.B. (29:44):
And they were like the dude with the Mac.
Lauren (29:46):
Yes, the dude with the Mac.
Oh yeah, it is an interestingtime where I always think about
when stop motion, when stopmotion stopped being the way for
special effects and it went tocomputer generated art, and that
was scary.
And I still feel because I'mlike, oh, think about all those
model makers and sculptorartists that don't have jobs.
(30:08):
They'll figure it out, they'lllike people will bounce back.
We are amazingly resilient.
J.B. (30:12):
We are.
I remain more of an optimisthere and I think that, like we
will see this, we willexperience another massive shift
, but I think that there areoutcomes that we haven't
imagined yet that will take usin a new direction, which is
(30:33):
interesting and fun and keeps memotivated to keep having
conversations like this andlearning more.
Lauren, this has been such afantastic conversation.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and thank you for
sharing all of these strategiesfor helping teams be more
creative and playful.
(30:53):
Where can people find more outabout you online?
Lauren (30:57):
Yeah, if you want to see some weird clay videos, you can
follow me at lopsidedloren, Ithink, on both TikTok and
Instagram, or you can connectwith me on LinkedIn or something
.
Be fun.
J.B. (31:11):
Fabulous.
Thank you so much.
I hope you have a great weekend.
Lauren (31:14):
Yeah, you too.
J.B. (31:19):
God, that was a great conversation.
I completely related toLauren's ethos of seeking out
new and different experiencesover the course of a career
Totally.
I think getting into new spaces, new industries and solving new
problems, where we get to learnand experiment and grow, is
such an interesting way tothread together the arc of a
(31:41):
career.
It seems counterintuitive, butbeing that serial beginner is
actually a great way to developreally real, deep wisdom really
quickly.
I kept hearing that wisdom comethrough in our conversation
with Lauren.
Molly (31:56):
Yeah, I love that.
J.B. (31:58):
I also really like to approach to experimenting with
AI as a rubber duck.
I'd never heard that termbefore Me.
Neither I agree with her thatAI is not yet ready to replace
human artistic creativity Rightnow.
All of these AGI platforms relyon vocabulary, and the creative
vocabulary of professionalartists, professional designers,
(32:20):
professional writers andcreatives is so much richer than
it is for non-professionals.
If you're expecting magic fromAI, one great way to get that
magic is to hire a greatcreative.
Molly (32:34):
A thousand percent.
J.B. (32:37):
Also, I'm ready to go rewatch broadcast news this
weekend.
I need to go re-familiarizemyself with Jane Craig.
Molly (32:44):
Oh my gosh, me too, no doubt Lauren truly is a mix of
Jane Craig meets Tess McGill.
Lauren (32:50):
I kept thinking when she was talking.
Molly (32:52):
Can I be her when I grow up?
Because I got quieter, I gotmore curious.
I felt like sparks of joy as Iheard her talk about how she
catalyzes amazing work andcreativity on her diverse teams
and I really loved the focus onthe power of creative introverts
(33:13):
.
Then I also wouldn't it bereally cool if I made a cameo
appearance in one of her stopmotion films?
A little claymation Molly.
I think that would be prettyboss.
I think the whole world needsthat.
Totally, and I think bonkersmight have to become a new
criteria for joy for me.
If I'm going to measure joy inmy life, how bonkers do I feel?
(33:36):
How bonkers was it?
Yeah, and get ready, becausegive me the weird is going to be
my new mantra.
Good, we might hear it againhere on Unserious Give me the
weird.
Fasten your seatbelts, folks.
J.B. (33:54):
I ate the play dough because it was salty Kids don't
eat the play dough.
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