April 22, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode of “The Unstoppable Leadership” Podcast, host & Leadership Coach Jaclyn Strominger is joined by leadership revolutionary Andrew Davies– a man who is changing the way that businesses handle one of the most important aspects of company culture: The Meeting.
It doesn’t take long to recognize why Andrew, alongside his company “Artly Working”, have been hired by over 100 of the biggest and most successful companies around the globe. Their position is simple: in corporate culture the meeting is all-too-often an afterthought. They’re frequently scheduled by leaders who feel that they are simply a part of the job, and who fail to capitalize on meetings as an essential tool that can be used to effectively grow a company’s Bottom Line.
In just a short amount of time, we get a fantastic sample of exactly what it is that has brought Andrew’s company so much success. The #1 takeaway? The “ABC’s” of a meeting: ensuring that before any meeting is held, that you as a leader ask yourself what the meeting is intended to improve upon from either an Affective, Behavioral, or Cognitive Standpoint.
No matter how you slice it, communication is key in every business setting, and throughout the episode Andrew gives gem after gem of quality insight into establishing intentional and effective meetings. From discussions surrounding workplace culture & morale, to a candid conversation highlighting ways to improve in the future, Andrew’s work is proof that employees value a company that values their time– and it’s essential in improving employee retention.
If you’re in a leadership position, this is a must-listen episode of “The Unstoppable Leadership” Podcast. If you’d like to learn more about Andrew’s tactics or work with him directly, feel free to email him at andrew@artlyworking.com. He will send you a FREE worksheet that you can use to get started right away.
Takeaways:
- Company Culture Starts at the Top: With the Team Lead
- Meetings Set the Tone for Good Leadership
- Focus on Your “Why” Statement: Why are We Meeting? Why are we Working?
- Andrew’s Can’t-Miss “ABC’s” of Meetings: Affective, Behavioral, & Cognitive
- Utilize Improv & Games such as “Band Names” to Create Fun within Meetings
- Better Meetings Improves Your Bottom Line
- “EBIs”: Utilize “Even Better Ifs” as a way to improve Company Culture
More info on Andrew Davies:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-davies-1103b618/
- The “Artly Working” Website: https://www.artlyworking.com/
- The “Bible Players” Website: https://www.thebibleplayers.com/
- The “CharacTours” Website: https://www.charactours.org/
Links referenced in this episode:
- For Your FREE Worksheet, Email: andrew@artlyworking.com
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Artly Working
- CharacTours
- The Bible Players
Mentioned in this episode:
Thank you for listening
Thank you for listening. If you have enjoyed this episode please give it a 5 star review.We would love to have you be a subscriber, don't miss an episode!
Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight - Welcome
Welcome to the podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:56):
Hello, everybody.
I'm Jacqueline Strominger, thehost of the Unstoppable Leadership
Spotlight podcast where wehear from amazing leaders and people
in the industry who give ustheir awesome insights and game changing
ideas that help you become abetter leader, which also helps your
(01:16):
company be better and makemore money.
So today I have an amazingguest, Andrew Davies.
He is, well, a lot of things,but he is the better meetings director
of Artfully Artly Working.
Not artfully, but ArtlyWorking, which uses improv and theater
(01:37):
to help build stronger teams,which actually then helps make people
happier, which is really great.
Since starting in 2019, ArtlyWorking has led programs with over
a hundred innovative companieslike Netflix, Roadblocks, I should
know that name.
Meta and Google.
Sometimes words just, youknow, tongue tied, right?
This morning I haven't hadenough coffee.
(01:58):
Anyway.
With training andimprovisation from Magnet Theater
and facilitation fromGeorgetown University, Andrew has
become truly passionate aboutbringing his skills to strengthen
company culture and people andthe people experience.
So I want to just welcome youto the show because the this is like,
you know, creating betterculture, better people is all about
(02:20):
better leadership.
So welcome Andrew, and I'mcurious, what made you start this
venture?
Absolutely.
Well, thanks Jacqueline somuch for having me on the show.
I've been loving listening toit and learning from other leaders
and so excited to be here.
So Artly Working reallystarted and I'm a co founder with
(02:43):
my good friend Dave Clasco,who's in Brooklyn.
And it really started with ourpassion of bringing the tools and
skills of theater and improvto help workplaces have stronger
teams and happier people.
We were hearing all the timefrom our friends in, let's say, more
traditional jobs that they'rejust struggling as a team, struggling
(03:04):
with their coworkers,struggling with their employees.
Didn't really know where to start.
And so often I think we arediagnosing the symptoms right, rather
than the real problem, whichis the company culture and which
is the, you know, the poolthat everyone is swimming in that
is sort of toxic and ruining everything.
(03:25):
And we're trying to solveindividual people when really like
someone has peed in the pooland we need to like get a new pool,
new water to float in.
So that's really our goal.
And so we started in about2019 and really got busy during COVID
when people were strugglingwith how do we stay connected as
a team, how do we do positivethings together and in good and bad
(03:47):
ways, people rethought whatwork looks like.
So we've been excited to getinto them and then we can talk more
about later.
But I really got passionateabout better meetings, which is why
that's my main focus.
So, so one thing that you justsaid and I, and we, I do want to
talk about so many differentthings, but one thing that you just
said, you know, companyculture is so important.
It's.
(04:07):
And leadership.
So, you know, and to me itstarts at the top or it starts at
the top of the team lead.
So what do you think?
Or what is like the insight orthe game changer to basically, as
you just said, change the peewater Because.
(04:31):
Because that leader might bethe one that's been peeing in the
pool.
Yeah, absolutely.
It definitely, the tone getsset at the top and the top of the
team or the top of theorganization or both.
And the leader, the way theyreact, I think emotionally to their
team makes a huge, huge difference.
(04:52):
And I think this is somethingthat's really goes unnoticed or unspoken
about enough, which is notjust what you do, but how you do
it, how you say things.
So when we visit teams andwe're working together, we will often
see that, you know, the teamseems to be good people, they seem
to be smart, but it's clearthat the leader really is dismissive
(05:13):
of their ideas when they're different.
Right.
And it's not just that they'redismissing them, but it's how they're
dismissing them in a way thatmakes people really like shut down
or go into their own bubblesor sometimes alternately.
The leader is really kind ofenergetic and bouncing all over the
place and sets the tone thateveryone can just kind of be frenetic
(05:33):
and doing whatever they wantand no one is able to stay focused
on the mission.
You know, it's funny to hearthis on a podcast, but my, my sister
had a former boss who, theywould have meetings and they would
have an hour long meeting andhe would just kind of pontificate
and talk about this and thatand his life and nonsense.
And it would have to be in thelast five minutes that she would
kind of have to manage up andsay, can we actually talk about what
(05:55):
we're doing this week, likethe deadlines?
And we joked that he reallyhad his own podcast rather than a
team.
Right.
He was just kind of talking at them.
And you know, for me, the,the, the biggest way that, that leadership
sets the tone in a good or abad way are the meetings, right?
Or is the collective time together?
So, so that's really the focalpoint of intervention that I see
(06:17):
as so important.
You know, I would I 100% agreewith you and I have an idea that.
But I want to ask you becauseI love this idea of the meeting being
that the starting point.
So what made you think that,like that the meeting was that point?
You know, it started with theproblem that I just kept hearing
(06:39):
over and over again fromFriends, which was, you know, I spent
all of yesterday in meetingsand I didn't get anything done.
And as someone that worksindependently and you know, runs,
runs my own organizations, Iwas like, what do you mean?
What are you talking about?
And they said, yeah, well,every Tuesday we meet for three hours
and we go over things as ateam, but we don't really do anything.
We all just kind of sit thereand wait for our turn to speak or
(07:00):
we all let the boss talk andwe're just kind of on our email and
trying to get things done atthe same time.
So I felt that the meetingsare really what set the tone for.
Is this a collaborative work environment?
Is this a work environmentwhere your voice and your work is
valued?
Or is this a place where youare told to kind of sit quietly,
do what you're told.
(07:21):
And that can include sitquietly while other people are talking,
even though you don't have tobe here.
And so a meeting every weekcan really set the tone of like,
we're a fun place, we're anengaged place, we want to get a lot
of things done.
We're.
Or it can set the tone thatlike we're meeting for the sake of
meeting, we're working for thesake of working, but we don't really
care where we go.
So there's just a lot of waysin which that group time is so valuable.
(07:45):
And, and just on the practicallevel, right, if I spend an hour
working on a project, that'sone thing.
But if there's 20 of us on ameeting for an hour, that's like
20 hours of people's time thatwe've used.
So are we actually using thattime well, or are we meeting because
it's on the calendar?
It could have been an email,you know.
Right.
And it's so true.
And so, you know, I, I'm afirm believer that, that meetings
(08:14):
first and foremost dependingupon the type of meeting.
But if it's like a companywide meeting, I'm a believer that
there needs to be, the missionof the company needs to be stated.
It's almost like, like thepledge of allegiance or like the
preamble in the constitution,like it's the thing that's going
to set the tone of what we'reactually doing and kind of gets people
set in the mind.
So how do you, how do you, youknow, what's your thought on that?
(08:36):
And the other thing is, is howdo you get those meetings to be productive?
Yeah, I, I love the idea ofcoming back to your mission and sort
of your why statement.
Right.
As like, Simon Sinek might say.
Right.
Is the kind of why of whywe're meeting, why we're working,
where we're going.
Because that can be a goodNorth Star.
(08:56):
And that can also help youcheck in over.
Does this meeting need to happen?
Like a simple, really piece ofadvice I have for everyone that runs
a team, runs an organizationis five minutes before every meeting.
Pause.
Check in with yourself.
And the first question to askis, do we need to have this meeting?
Should we have this meeting?
Because if the answer is no,let people know, hey, I know we had
(09:17):
a meeting on the calendar, butI don't think we need to have a meeting.
So unless someone else it saysI'm missing something giant, I think
we should, you know, meetanother time.
There's no reason to not havethat check in and just say, like,
do I want to do this?
Right.
It's.
It's for our personal lives as well.
Right.
If you've bought tickets to amovie and then the movie time rolls
around, you're like, I don'twant to see this movie or whatever.
(09:38):
Check in with yourself.
And like, notice that.
Right.
You know, behavioraleconomists call this, like, the sunken
cost fallacy.
If we've already committed tosomething, we've already put in effort,
we just go ahead with it.
So that's the first thing is,should we have this meeting?
And then I have an ABCs that Irecommend to people to check in on
the purpose of the meeting, tohelp them design the meeting.
And this could be somethingthat you do in an hour or something
(10:01):
you do in two minutes rightbefore the meeting.
Okay, so what's the ABC?
Yeah, I have to tell you.
So now it's ABC.
I know.
So.
So there's a lot of ABCs inthe world for me, the ABCs of meetings.
This really comes from myfacilitation training at Georgetown
that I've adapted for four companies.
Is A is the effective what doyou want people to feel?
(10:21):
How do you want people to feelcoming out of this meeting?
B is behavioral.
What do you want people to doduring this meeting and following
the meeting?
And C is cognitive.
What do you want people toknow during the meeting, following
the meeting?
And these Three can be a fiveminute check in right before it starts,
or it can be part of muchlonger planning process depending
(10:42):
on the importance of themeeting, how many people are involved,
you know, the stakes of the meeting.
But I think these really arecrucial, which is like, what are
we doing together?
What, what are we actuallytrying to do in the B, the behavioral,
the A, the effective is whatso often gets ignored, which is like,
what is the tone of this meeting?
Are we here to celebrate ouraccomplishments of the year?
Are we here because we'restruggling and we need people to
(11:06):
get worried and get nervousthat we're not going to reach our
goals?
Right.
Those are two very different meetings.
And it's important going in toknow what is the tone, what is the
energy that we're trying tocreate in the room and that'll lead
us to kind of how we run the meeting.
And then to see the cognitiveis really what information is critical
(11:27):
that we know by the time thismeeting is done.
So that if we have an hourmeeting, I know I have to cover these
five bullet points before we go.
Wherever else the conversationgoes, that's like critical because
meetings in a good and a badway can go off the rails.
Right.
In, in a conversational way.
Sometimes in a good way,something comes up that you weren't
prepared for.
(11:47):
So it's really important to goin with being like, here's what I
definitely need to cover tomake sure we, we get those points
before, before we get out abc.
So I, I love that.
So what I'm so in that whenyou have that meeting.
Yeah.
Where in your, where in thatif is does and I guess is this part
(12:08):
of the A effective?
Yeah.
Do you create accountabilityor actions?
Yeah.
So for me that, that fallsinto the like behavior, the B which
is what behavior do we want todo during this meeting and what is
critical to be conveyed, to bedone after the meeting.
Right.
So I think it's important tothink about both.
Like during this meeting weare going to create our action steps
(12:32):
for this new project we'redoing this new, you know, promotion
we're launching.
And then the B for after themeeting is making sure I've assigned
each person to their nextaction step.
So that definitely will bepart of your plan.
But that's definitely part ofthe B is like what are the critical
Bs coming out of that?
And of course those could beadded on as you go on.
Right.
You could come up with anamazing new idea, but we need to
(12:53):
do some research for it.
So you assign that newly.
But going into the meeting islike, what is the kind of minimum?
Abc.
Yeah.
You know, I love that becauseI think that's actually one of the
things that I.
That I.
That seems to get lost a lot.
Like, there's, you know, youmeet, you talk, you know, even if
it's like a sales meeting.
Right.
Like a sales meeting happen.
(13:15):
Saying, Monday morning, sales meeting.
This is where we are.
This is what we're doing.
Okay, great.
Yay.
What are the action steps afterwards?
Right.
You know, giving somebody,giving each person in that room an
action item and then a pointor a person for accountability.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think checking in, youknow, about the worthwhileness of
(13:36):
the meeting, this is part ofit, Right.
Which is like, if Jacqueline,if you're in a meeting that I'm leading
and I'm going through thebees, and I'm like, I don't think
Jacqueline has any B's comingas me.
I don't think she has anybehavior she needs to do anything
she needs to do, then thisprobably isn't a meeting that's relevant
to you.
Right.
So it's also checking in andsaying you won't be offended that
you don't have to go to the meeting.
Right.
If I say, oh, Jacqueline,you're doing great on your projects.
(13:58):
This is all actually all aboutthis other project.
So, like, you don't need to bea part of this meeting is so much
better than you being part ofthe meeting and then coming out of
it saying, like, wait, did I.
Did I need to be there?
Do I need to do anything?
This didn't seem relevant to me.
Yeah.
Okay, so now let me ask aquestion, because you also have the
part of improv and theater.
(14:18):
How do you bring that into themeetings with the fun?
Yeah, absolutely.
So we have a better meetingstemplate that I shared.
I'm happy to share with yourlisteners for free.
That kind of has a structureto a meeting.
And I always recommendstarting with a hook, something interactive
and playful to get peopleexcited about whatever the theme
is of the meeting.
(14:39):
Right.
And so there's lots of gamesthat we offer and share.
Some are collaborative, someare brainstorming.
Like, if I'm trying to get thegroup to think really positively
and not be negative on each other.
If I've been feeling we'vebeen negative, I love playing a game
called Band Names andrecommend this.
So we all have bands.
We love.
Their names don't really matter.
(14:59):
Right.
We love the music because it'sthe music.
Right.
I don't love the Beatles orThird Eye Blind, because that's their
name.
That's just their name.
But so the way band name worksis with a partner, you just take
turns making up band names andthe other person just has to say,
I.
I love it.
Right.
So, like, I could say like,you know, dolphin for lunch, and
you'd say, I love it.
(15:20):
Right.
Or, you know, glasses are lostand we say, I love it.
And it's just practicingnoticing our brains, judging the
idea, being like, that's adumb band name, and then forcing
ourselves to say, yeah, that'sa great band name.
Right.
To just keep it positive.
If that's, if that's the tone,if that's the tone that we want to
strike for this meeting islike we're brainstorming.
(15:40):
We don't want people to shutdown each other's ideas.
That might be one.
I would start with, like animprov game like that.
I, you know, I really lovethat because actually what I.
What I love is I've donefacilitating and I love being able
to.
We used to, you know, doingthe detours and having people, like,
think outside the box and, youknow, something that's like, totally
random.
Like, think of all the thingsthat you can think about when you
think of, you know, Elvis.
(16:00):
Right.
You know, But I love that ideaof band names and the positivity,
because that does.
I like the trick with the brain.
So that's a great.
That's a great.
Is there another way that youbring out the fun or to create the
fun for teams in the meetingsas well?
Because, you know, as I waslooking on your website, some of
(16:25):
the things that people saidfor some of the reviews, which I
thought were amazing, whichwere people got to know each other.
And I'm a big believer thatthat's actually one of the areas
that, you know, you could talkabout it as emotional intelligence,
you could talk about itdifferent things, but people need
to get to know the people ontheir teams and what they want.
So share a little bit abouthow that incorporates with what you're
(16:47):
doing, because it obviouslycame in.
Came out of as a huge testimonial.
Yeah, no, I think that's socritical, and I think that that speaks
to the trust that you need ona good team.
And an effective team isreally getting to know each other.
You know, you can tell peopleon day one, trust each other.
We're all on the same team.
Right.
But they won't feel it andthey won't act on that from the get
(17:09):
go.
You really have to cultivatethat care and that nutrition.
Like one I love to play withpeople and suggest is just called
four in one, which is afacilitation technique.
You may have done somethinglike that.
Where you find a small groupof people is, let's say groups of
four.
And you say, find four thingsyou have in common.
And one thing that's unique toeach of you to share.
(17:29):
And what's great is you canplay that with people on day one
or on day 1000, and you'llalways find new things and just to
find those points ofconnection and make those connections.
Sometimes I like to domovement games as well.
Like, we're moving around thecircle, where we'll be in a circle
and we'll say, okay, I wantyou to think of some hobby, something
(17:50):
that you love in your free time.
Completely unrelated to work.
Right.
Completely unrelated to yourjob and your work, whether it's hiking
or tennis or chess.
And then how to act it out physically.
And we go around the circlesaying our names and acting out.
Like Michael Chess.
Right.
And like Jennifer hiking.
And we go around a few timesand play some games with that.
But what's great is, you know,something new about your colleague.
(18:12):
You have kind of a new funassociation with them, and you get
to know each other'spersonality a little bit and make
connections.
Where every time we play, atsome point someone's like, oh, I
didn't know you like to gohiking too.
Like, we should go hiking.
That's awesome.
So to bring in your full selfis another part of it too.
I think it's really importantwhen we're working, obviously we're
mostly working on in aspecific field together.
But to not forget that we arewhole rounded human beings and that.
(18:35):
That's a big part of, youknow, being a successful team and
trusting each other isrecognizing that.
That whole self.
Yeah.
All right, so let's get tosome of the numbers.
So you're working with people.
How.
How is what you're doing andworking with you with, you know,
better meetings, changing thebottom line.
(18:59):
So the feedback that we'vegotten from a lot of these organizations
is that the time saved ofusing meetings correctly is.
Is huge.
So a lot of teams have told usthat they used to spend eight to
10 hours a week on, like, teammeetings, and now it's more like
(19:19):
one or two hours on those meetings.
And that their productivityhas gone up because of that, because
their.
Their team is clear on whatthey have to do, what they need to
do, and their leadership isusing people's time more effectively.
And like, time is just thenumber one resource that all of our
teams have.
And so to use that moreeffectively has really been a big
(19:43):
deal for teams.
The other one, the other bigway it affects the bottom line is
employee retention.
You know, it costs a fortuneto find, recruit, interview, train
onboard new employees.
And I think companies arestarting to recognize that if they
can do things to make peoplehave a better office experience,
(20:05):
to feel more connected to the work.
And I love what you sharedabout sharing the mission every time
in your meeting.
I think is great, but thatthat makes such a difference in employee
retention and employee productivity.
So that's the other feedbackthat we've heard.
And there's some companies forwhom we are part of their onboarding.
Every new group that theyhire, and it's because they've really
seen that the employeeretention has really gone up because
(20:28):
they like the company culture more.
They want to be there.
Right.
That is.
You know what?
I really love this.
Yeah.
I could talk to you forabsolutely hours and hours and hours
because it's such a huge,like, big thing for me.
What is one thing you wanteverybody to walk away with?
Well, the ABCs for sure, of meetings.
(20:49):
I really.
And, and as I said, if anyonewants to reach out and get the meeting
template, I'm happy to sharethat with them.
And I think that's really great.
Another phrase that I'll sharethat I really love to teach leaders
and I use with all of my teamswhen I'm leading them, is that after
programs, we always shareEBIs, which stands for even better
ifs, EBI even better ifs.
(21:10):
And the framing of what we didwas great and would even better if
we did something else is soimportant at allowing for criticism,
allowing for feedback,allowing for improvement without
quickly slipping intonegativity or without people feeling
like they can't be criticalbecause they'll be seen as being
(21:31):
negative or mean or puttingyou down.
But as a leader, as a boss, toconstantly say, I want to hear what
we could have done better,what would be the even better ifs
really allows everyone on theteam to always be thinking about
how could things be better?
And it's not saying we weredid badly.
It's not saying we weregarbage today.
It's just, it'll be evenbetter if we did this.
(21:53):
And I found that to be reallycritical in helping everyone on the
team to make things better.
I.
I really, I really love thatbecause it's also being done in a
positive way, as you share.
And that's, I think One of thebiggest things if we, you know, and
I'm going to say, listeners,as you hear this, it creates and
(22:15):
helps create the positivelanguage and the words that we say
matter.
And so using that really helpsframe the positivity language which
we all need and I think weneed more of.
So, Andrew, I could talk toyou for hours.
How can people get a hold ofyou, connect with you and get the
(22:35):
sheet or actually I want tomake sure that you actually send
it to me and I can put it inthe show notes.
Great.
Yeah, I'll definitely send itto you.
Yeah, they can just reach out.
My email isandrewtlyworking.com A R T L Y like
hardly working.
Artlyworking.com they canreach out and happy to share, you
know, all the programs thatwe're up to where they can find us
(22:56):
and we do things remotely andin person.
We're based in New York andPhilly, but we, we do a lot of things
remote in, you know, this dayand age.
That's, that's absolutely fantastic.
So, listeners, please reachout to Andrew, connect with him,
go to, send him an email, chatwith him on his website, check with
him on LinkedIn.
I just want to remind you,this is the Unstoppable Leadership
(23:16):
Spotlight podcast and I amyour host and I want to share.
If you have enjoyed this andyou have found any tips, information
that is worthy, pleasesubscribe and also share this because
the more we share, the betterand we can help everybody grow and
we want to change the worldone leader at a time and helping
everybody be unstoppable again.
(23:37):
I'm Jacqueline Strominger,your host and thank you all for listening.
Hello, everybody.
I'm Jacqueline Strominger, thehost of the Unstoppable Leadership
Spotlight podcast where wehear from amazing leaders and people
in the industry who give ustheir awesome insights and game changing
ideas that help you become abetter leader, which also helps your
(01:16):
company be better and makemore money.
So today I have an amazingguest, Andrew Davies.
He is, well, a lot of things,but he is the better meetings director
of Artfully Artly Working.
Not artfully, but ArtlyWorking, which uses improv and theater
(01:37):
to help build stronger teams,which actually then helps make people
happier, which is really great.
Since starting in 2019, ArtlyWorking has led programs with over
a hundred innovative companieslike Netflix, Roadblocks, I should
know that name.
Meta and Google.
Sometimes words just, youknow, tongue tied, right?
This morning I haven't hadenough coffee.
(01:58):
Anyway.
With training andimprovisation from Magnet Theater
and facilitation fromGeorgetown University, Andrew has
become truly passionate aboutbringing his skills to strengthen
company culture and people andthe people experience.
So I want to just welcome youto the show because the this is like,
you know, creating betterculture, better people is all about
(02:20):
better leadership.
So welcome Andrew, and I'mcurious, what made you start this
venture?
Absolutely.
Well, thanks Jacqueline somuch for having me on the show.
I've been loving listening toit and learning from other leaders
and so excited to be here.
So Artly Working reallystarted and I'm a co founder with
(02:43):
my good friend Dave Clasco,who's in Brooklyn.
And it really started with ourpassion of bringing the tools and
skills of theater and improvto help workplaces have stronger
teams and happier people.
We were hearing all the timefrom our friends in, let's say, more
traditional jobs that they'rejust struggling as a team, struggling
(03:04):
with their coworkers,struggling with their employees.
Didn't really know where to start.
And so often I think we arediagnosing the symptoms right, rather
than the real problem, whichis the company culture and which
is the, you know, the poolthat everyone is swimming in that
is sort of toxic and ruining everything.
(03:25):
And we're trying to solveindividual people when really like
someone has peed in the pooland we need to like get a new pool,
new water to float in.
So that's really our goal.
And so we started in about2019 and really got busy during COVID
when people were strugglingwith how do we stay connected as
a team, how do we do positivethings together and in good and bad
(03:47):
ways, people rethought whatwork looks like.
So we've been excited to getinto them and then we can talk more
about later.
But I really got passionateabout better meetings, which is why
that's my main focus.
So, so one thing that you justsaid and I, and we, I do want to
talk about so many differentthings, but one thing that you just
said, you know, companyculture is so important.
It's.
(04:07):
And leadership.
So, you know, and to me itstarts at the top or it starts at
the top of the team lead.
So what do you think?
Or what is like the insight orthe game changer to basically, as
you just said, change the peewater Because.
(04:31):
Because that leader might bethe one that's been peeing in the
pool.
Yeah, absolutely.
It definitely, the tone getsset at the top and the top of the
team or the top of theorganization or both.
And the leader, the way theyreact, I think emotionally to their
team makes a huge, huge difference.
(04:52):
And I think this is somethingthat's really goes unnoticed or unspoken
about enough, which is notjust what you do, but how you do
it, how you say things.
So when we visit teams andwe're working together, we will often
see that, you know, the teamseems to be good people, they seem
to be smart, but it's clearthat the leader really is dismissive
(05:13):
of their ideas when they're different.
Right.
And it's not just that they'redismissing them, but it's how they're
dismissing them in a way thatmakes people really like shut down
or go into their own bubblesor sometimes alternately.
The leader is really kind ofenergetic and bouncing all over the
place and sets the tone thateveryone can just kind of be frenetic
(05:33):
and doing whatever they wantand no one is able to stay focused
on the mission.
You know, it's funny to hearthis on a podcast, but my, my sister
had a former boss who, theywould have meetings and they would
have an hour long meeting andhe would just kind of pontificate
and talk about this and thatand his life and nonsense.
And it would have to be in thelast five minutes that she would
kind of have to manage up andsay, can we actually talk about what
(05:55):
we're doing this week, likethe deadlines?
And we joked that he reallyhad his own podcast rather than a
team.
Right.
He was just kind of talking at them.
And you know, for me, the,the, the biggest way that, that leadership
sets the tone in a good or abad way are the meetings, right?
Or is the collective time together?
So, so that's really the focalpoint of intervention that I see
(06:17):
as so important.
You know, I would I 100% agreewith you and I have an idea that.
But I want to ask you becauseI love this idea of the meeting being
that the starting point.
So what made you think that,like that the meeting was that point?
You know, it started with theproblem that I just kept hearing
(06:39):
over and over again fromFriends, which was, you know, I spent
all of yesterday in meetingsand I didn't get anything done.
And as someone that worksindependently and you know, runs,
runs my own organizations, Iwas like, what do you mean?
What are you talking about?
And they said, yeah, well,every Tuesday we meet for three hours
and we go over things as ateam, but we don't really do anything.
We all just kind of sit thereand wait for our turn to speak or
(07:00):
we all let the boss talk andwe're just kind of on our email and
trying to get things done atthe same time.
So I felt that the meetingsare really what set the tone for.
Is this a collaborative work environment?
Is this a work environmentwhere your voice and your work is
valued?
Or is this a place where youare told to kind of sit quietly,
do what you're told.
(07:21):
And that can include sitquietly while other people are talking,
even though you don't have tobe here.
And so a meeting every weekcan really set the tone of like,
we're a fun place, we're anengaged place, we want to get a lot
of things done.
We're.
Or it can set the tone thatlike we're meeting for the sake of
meeting, we're working for thesake of working, but we don't really
care where we go.
So there's just a lot of waysin which that group time is so valuable.
(07:45):
And, and just on the practicallevel, right, if I spend an hour
working on a project, that'sone thing.
But if there's 20 of us on ameeting for an hour, that's like
20 hours of people's time thatwe've used.
So are we actually using thattime well, or are we meeting because
it's on the calendar?
It could have been an email,you know.
Right.
And it's so true.
And so, you know, I, I'm afirm believer that, that meetings
(08:14):
first and foremost dependingupon the type of meeting.
But if it's like a companywide meeting, I'm a believer that
there needs to be, the missionof the company needs to be stated.
It's almost like, like thepledge of allegiance or like the
preamble in the constitution,like it's the thing that's going
to set the tone of what we'reactually doing and kind of gets people
set in the mind.
So how do you, how do you, youknow, what's your thought on that?
(08:36):
And the other thing is, is howdo you get those meetings to be productive?
Yeah, I, I love the idea ofcoming back to your mission and sort
of your why statement.
Right.
As like, Simon Sinek might say.
Right.
Is the kind of why of whywe're meeting, why we're working,
where we're going.
Because that can be a goodNorth Star.
(08:56):
And that can also help youcheck in over.
Does this meeting need to happen?
Like a simple, really piece ofadvice I have for everyone that runs
a team, runs an organizationis five minutes before every meeting.
Pause.
Check in with yourself.
And the first question to askis, do we need to have this meeting?
Should we have this meeting?
Because if the answer is no,let people know, hey, I know we had
(09:17):
a meeting on the calendar, butI don't think we need to have a meeting.
So unless someone else it saysI'm missing something giant, I think
we should, you know, meetanother time.
There's no reason to not havethat check in and just say, like,
do I want to do this?
Right.
It's.
It's for our personal lives as well.
Right.
If you've bought tickets to amovie and then the movie time rolls
around, you're like, I don'twant to see this movie or whatever.
(09:38):
Check in with yourself.
And like, notice that.
Right.
You know, behavioraleconomists call this, like, the sunken
cost fallacy.
If we've already committed tosomething, we've already put in effort,
we just go ahead with it.
So that's the first thing is,should we have this meeting?
And then I have an ABCs that Irecommend to people to check in on
the purpose of the meeting, tohelp them design the meeting.
And this could be somethingthat you do in an hour or something
(10:01):
you do in two minutes rightbefore the meeting.
Okay, so what's the ABC?
Yeah, I have to tell you.
So now it's ABC.
I know.
So.
So there's a lot of ABCs inthe world for me, the ABCs of meetings.
This really comes from myfacilitation training at Georgetown
that I've adapted for four companies.
Is A is the effective what doyou want people to feel?
(10:21):
How do you want people to feelcoming out of this meeting?
B is behavioral.
What do you want people to doduring this meeting and following
the meeting?
And C is cognitive.
What do you want people toknow during the meeting, following
the meeting?
And these Three can be a fiveminute check in right before it starts,
or it can be part of muchlonger planning process depending
(10:42):
on the importance of themeeting, how many people are involved,
you know, the stakes of the meeting.
But I think these really arecrucial, which is like, what are
we doing together?
What, what are we actuallytrying to do in the B, the behavioral,
the A, the effective is whatso often gets ignored, which is like,
what is the tone of this meeting?
Are we here to celebrate ouraccomplishments of the year?
Are we here because we'restruggling and we need people to
(11:06):
get worried and get nervousthat we're not going to reach our
goals?
Right.
Those are two very different meetings.
And it's important going in toknow what is the tone, what is the
energy that we're trying tocreate in the room and that'll lead
us to kind of how we run the meeting.
And then to see the cognitiveis really what information is critical
(11:27):
that we know by the time thismeeting is done.
So that if we have an hourmeeting, I know I have to cover these
five bullet points before we go.
Wherever else the conversationgoes, that's like critical because
meetings in a good and a badway can go off the rails.
Right.
In, in a conversational way.
Sometimes in a good way,something comes up that you weren't
prepared for.
(11:47):
So it's really important to goin with being like, here's what I
definitely need to cover tomake sure we, we get those points
before, before we get out abc.
So I, I love that.
So what I'm so in that whenyou have that meeting.
Yeah.
Where in your, where in thatif is does and I guess is this part
(12:08):
of the A effective?
Yeah.
Do you create accountabilityor actions?
Yeah.
So for me that, that fallsinto the like behavior, the B which
is what behavior do we want todo during this meeting and what is
critical to be conveyed, to bedone after the meeting.
Right.
So I think it's important tothink about both.
Like during this meeting weare going to create our action steps
(12:32):
for this new project we'redoing this new, you know, promotion
we're launching.
And then the B for after themeeting is making sure I've assigned
each person to their nextaction step.
So that definitely will bepart of your plan.
But that's definitely part ofthe B is like what are the critical
Bs coming out of that?
And of course those could beadded on as you go on.
Right.
You could come up with anamazing new idea, but we need to
(12:53):
do some research for it.
So you assign that newly.
But going into the meeting islike, what is the kind of minimum?
Abc.
Yeah.
You know, I love that becauseI think that's actually one of the
things that I.
That I.
That seems to get lost a lot.
Like, there's, you know, youmeet, you talk, you know, even if
it's like a sales meeting.
Right.
Like a sales meeting happen.
(13:15):
Saying, Monday morning, sales meeting.
This is where we are.
This is what we're doing.
Okay, great.
Yay.
What are the action steps afterwards?
Right.
You know, giving somebody,giving each person in that room an
action item and then a pointor a person for accountability.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think checking in, youknow, about the worthwhileness of
(13:36):
the meeting, this is part ofit, Right.
Which is like, if Jacqueline,if you're in a meeting that I'm leading
and I'm going through thebees, and I'm like, I don't think
Jacqueline has any B's comingas me.
I don't think she has anybehavior she needs to do anything
she needs to do, then thisprobably isn't a meeting that's relevant
to you.
Right.
So it's also checking in andsaying you won't be offended that
you don't have to go to the meeting.
Right.
If I say, oh, Jacqueline,you're doing great on your projects.
(13:58):
This is all actually all aboutthis other project.
So, like, you don't need to bea part of this meeting is so much
better than you being part ofthe meeting and then coming out of
it saying, like, wait, did I.
Did I need to be there?
Do I need to do anything?
This didn't seem relevant to me.
Yeah.
Okay, so now let me ask aquestion, because you also have the
part of improv and theater.
(14:18):
How do you bring that into themeetings with the fun?
Yeah, absolutely.
So we have a better meetingstemplate that I shared.
I'm happy to share with yourlisteners for free.
That kind of has a structureto a meeting.
And I always recommendstarting with a hook, something interactive
and playful to get peopleexcited about whatever the theme
is of the meeting.
(14:39):
Right.
And so there's lots of gamesthat we offer and share.
Some are collaborative, someare brainstorming.
Like, if I'm trying to get thegroup to think really positively
and not be negative on each other.
If I've been feeling we'vebeen negative, I love playing a game
called Band Names andrecommend this.
So we all have bands.
We love.
Their names don't really matter.
(14:59):
Right.
We love the music because it'sthe music.
Right.
I don't love the Beatles orThird Eye Blind, because that's their
name.
That's just their name.
But so the way band name worksis with a partner, you just take
turns making up band names andthe other person just has to say,
I.
I love it.
Right.
So, like, I could say like,you know, dolphin for lunch, and
you'd say, I love it.
(15:20):
Right.
Or, you know, glasses are lostand we say, I love it.
And it's just practicingnoticing our brains, judging the
idea, being like, that's adumb band name, and then forcing
ourselves to say, yeah, that'sa great band name.
Right.
To just keep it positive.
If that's, if that's the tone,if that's the tone that we want to
strike for this meeting islike we're brainstorming.
(15:40):
We don't want people to shutdown each other's ideas.
That might be one.
I would start with, like animprov game like that.
I, you know, I really lovethat because actually what I.
What I love is I've donefacilitating and I love being able
to.
We used to, you know, doingthe detours and having people, like,
think outside the box and, youknow, something that's like, totally
random.
Like, think of all the thingsthat you can think about when you
think of, you know, Elvis.
(16:00):
Right.
You know, But I love that ideaof band names and the positivity,
because that does.
I like the trick with the brain.
So that's a great.
That's a great.
Is there another way that youbring out the fun or to create the
fun for teams in the meetingsas well?
Because, you know, as I waslooking on your website, some of
(16:25):
the things that people saidfor some of the reviews, which I
thought were amazing, whichwere people got to know each other.
And I'm a big believer thatthat's actually one of the areas
that, you know, you could talkabout it as emotional intelligence,
you could talk about itdifferent things, but people need
to get to know the people ontheir teams and what they want.
So share a little bit abouthow that incorporates with what you're
(16:47):
doing, because it obviouslycame in.
Came out of as a huge testimonial.
Yeah, no, I think that's socritical, and I think that that speaks
to the trust that you need ona good team.
And an effective team isreally getting to know each other.
You know, you can tell peopleon day one, trust each other.
We're all on the same team.
Right.
But they won't feel it andthey won't act on that from the get
(17:09):
go.
You really have to cultivatethat care and that nutrition.
Like one I love to play withpeople and suggest is just called
four in one, which is afacilitation technique.
You may have done somethinglike that.
Where you find a small groupof people is, let's say groups of
four.
And you say, find four thingsyou have in common.
And one thing that's unique toeach of you to share.
(17:29):
And what's great is you canplay that with people on day one
or on day 1000, and you'llalways find new things and just to
find those points ofconnection and make those connections.
Sometimes I like to domovement games as well.
Like, we're moving around thecircle, where we'll be in a circle
and we'll say, okay, I wantyou to think of some hobby, something
(17:50):
that you love in your free time.
Completely unrelated to work.
Right.
Completely unrelated to yourjob and your work, whether it's hiking
or tennis or chess.
And then how to act it out physically.
And we go around the circlesaying our names and acting out.
Like Michael Chess.
Right.
And like Jennifer hiking.
And we go around a few timesand play some games with that.
But what's great is, you know,something new about your colleague.
(18:12):
You have kind of a new funassociation with them, and you get
to know each other'spersonality a little bit and make
connections.
Where every time we play, atsome point someone's like, oh, I
didn't know you like to gohiking too.
Like, we should go hiking.
That's awesome.
So to bring in your full selfis another part of it too.
I think it's really importantwhen we're working, obviously we're
mostly working on in aspecific field together.
But to not forget that we arewhole rounded human beings and that.
(18:35):
That's a big part of, youknow, being a successful team and
trusting each other isrecognizing that.
That whole self.
Yeah.
All right, so let's get tosome of the numbers.
So you're working with people.
How.
How is what you're doing andworking with you with, you know,
better meetings, changing thebottom line.
(18:59):
So the feedback that we'vegotten from a lot of these organizations
is that the time saved ofusing meetings correctly is.
Is huge.
So a lot of teams have told usthat they used to spend eight to
10 hours a week on, like, teammeetings, and now it's more like
(19:19):
one or two hours on those meetings.
And that their productivityhas gone up because of that, because
their.
Their team is clear on whatthey have to do, what they need to
do, and their leadership isusing people's time more effectively.
And like, time is just thenumber one resource that all of our
teams have.
And so to use that moreeffectively has really been a big
(19:43):
deal for teams.
The other one, the other bigway it affects the bottom line is
employee retention.
You know, it costs a fortuneto find, recruit, interview, train
onboard new employees.
And I think companies arestarting to recognize that if they
can do things to make peoplehave a better office experience,
(20:05):
to feel more connected to the work.
And I love what you sharedabout sharing the mission every time
in your meeting.
I think is great, but thatthat makes such a difference in employee
retention and employee productivity.
So that's the other feedbackthat we've heard.
And there's some companies forwhom we are part of their onboarding.
Every new group that theyhire, and it's because they've really
seen that the employeeretention has really gone up because
(20:28):
they like the company culture more.
They want to be there.
Right.
That is.
You know what?
I really love this.
Yeah.
I could talk to you forabsolutely hours and hours and hours
because it's such a huge,like, big thing for me.
What is one thing you wanteverybody to walk away with?
Well, the ABCs for sure, of meetings.
(20:49):
I really.
And, and as I said, if anyonewants to reach out and get the meeting
template, I'm happy to sharethat with them.
And I think that's really great.
Another phrase that I'll sharethat I really love to teach leaders
and I use with all of my teamswhen I'm leading them, is that after
programs, we always shareEBIs, which stands for even better
ifs, EBI even better ifs.
(21:10):
And the framing of what we didwas great and would even better if
we did something else is soimportant at allowing for criticism,
allowing for feedback,allowing for improvement without
quickly slipping intonegativity or without people feeling
like they can't be criticalbecause they'll be seen as being
(21:31):
negative or mean or puttingyou down.
But as a leader, as a boss, toconstantly say, I want to hear what
we could have done better,what would be the even better ifs
really allows everyone on theteam to always be thinking about
how could things be better?
And it's not saying we weredid badly.
It's not saying we weregarbage today.
It's just, it'll be evenbetter if we did this.
(21:53):
And I found that to be reallycritical in helping everyone on the
team to make things better.
I.
I really, I really love thatbecause it's also being done in a
positive way, as you share.
And that's, I think One of thebiggest things if we, you know, and
I'm going to say, listeners,as you hear this, it creates and
(22:15):
helps create the positivelanguage and the words that we say
matter.
And so using that really helpsframe the positivity language which
we all need and I think weneed more of.
So, Andrew, I could talk toyou for hours.
How can people get a hold ofyou, connect with you and get the
(22:35):
sheet or actually I want tomake sure that you actually send
it to me and I can put it inthe show notes.
Great.
Yeah, I'll definitely send itto you.
Yeah, they can just reach out.
My email isandrewtlyworking.com A R T L Y like
hardly working.
Artlyworking.com they canreach out and happy to share, you
know, all the programs thatwe're up to where they can find us
(22:56):
and we do things remotely andin person.
We're based in New York andPhilly, but we, we do a lot of things
remote in, you know, this dayand age.
That's, that's absolutely fantastic.
So, listeners, please reachout to Andrew, connect with him,
go to, send him an email, chatwith him on his website, check with
him on LinkedIn.
I just want to remind you,this is the Unstoppable Leadership
(23:16):
Spotlight podcast and I amyour host and I want to share.
If you have enjoyed this andyou have found any tips, information
that is worthy, pleasesubscribe and also share this because
the more we share, the betterand we can help everybody grow and
we want to change the worldone leader at a time and helping
everybody be unstoppable again.
(23:37):
I'm Jacqueline Strominger,your host and thank you all for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com