May 22, 2025 • 38 mins
This episode features the esteemed Jim Fielding, a leader with a distinguished career encompassing prominent organizations such as Disney, DreamWorks, and the Gap. The discussion centers on the concept of authentic leadership, which Jim articulates as a crucial pathway to personal authenticity in today's leadership landscape. He emphasizes the significance of human-centered leadership, which prioritizes empathy, kindness, and equity, thereby fostering a thriving organizational culture. Throughout the episode, Jim shares his extensive experiences in leadership, including both commendable and challenging moments that have shaped his approach to leading diverse teams. By drawing on the power of storytelling, he illustrates how authentic narratives can enhance engagement and drive meaningful connections within organizations.
The discourse presented in this episode is steeped in profound insights as Jim Fielding, a luminary in the realm of leadership, shares his extensive experiences from his tenure at prestigious establishments such as Disney, DreamWorks, and Gap. His narrative encapsulates the essence of authentic leadership, emphasizing the necessity for leaders to foster environments that prioritize human connection and authenticity. Fielding reflects on the dichotomy between effective and ineffective leadership, drawing on his own career trajectory to illustrate the pivotal moments that shaped his leadership philosophy. He advocates a human-centered approach, positing that the most effective leaders are those who understand and empower their teams, allowing individuals to contribute their unique perspectives and talents to a shared vision. Fielding's reflections resonate with the current demands of leadership, where empathy, inclusivity, and authenticity are not merely desirable but essential for success in an ever-evolving corporate landscape.
Takeaways:
- The importance of authentic leadership is paramount in fostering personal authenticity among leaders today.
- Human-centered leadership is pivotal; it emphasizes empathy and understanding within a team environment.
- Experiences with both commendable and challenging leaders contribute significantly to one's growth as a leader.
- Diversity of thought and experience enhances team effectiveness and reflects the customer base accurately.
- Storytelling plays a crucial role in business; it drives product development and marketing strategies effectively.
- Mentorship and training are vital, as they help individuals discover their true passions and career paths.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Disney
- DreamWorks
- Gap
- Claire's
- Fox
Mentioned in this episode:
Thank you for listening
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Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight - Welcome
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(00:56):
Foreign. And welcome toanother amazing episode of the Unstoppable
Leadership Spotlight podcastwhere we hear amazing leaders, their
game changing insights thathelp change and revolutionize leadership
and leaders today. And I wantto welcome to the podcast my amazing
(01:21):
guest, Jim Fielding. He is,well, an amazing leader. He has worked
at some awesome companies.Disney, DreamWorks, the Gap, Claire's,
Fox. I can keep going. And soleadership, obviously he knows all
about good, bad and uglyleadership and the art of storytelling
(01:44):
and strategic brand planning.And one of the key things that he
is talking about right now isauthentic leadership and that path
to personal authenticity. Andone of the key things, you know,
leadership and having, youknow, human centered leadership is
so pivotal, pivotal for today.And so we are going to hear a lot
(02:08):
about that from Jim today. Sowelcome to the show.
My gosh, thank you for havingme, Jaclyn. It's an honor. I'm thrilled
to be here.
I am so glad to have you. So.All right, so first I have to ask
a crazy question. You lookback at your, at the companies, you
know, Disney Players, Gab,Dreamwork, which one had the best
(02:31):
leaders?
Wow, that is a great question.I, I would. And I, I am not hedging.
I would say there's two, butit's different. I mean, the best
retail leadership by far wasmy years at the Gap. I mean, I was
at the Gap in the late 80s andmost all of the 90s. And the leaders
(02:52):
at Gap at that time, MickeyDrexler on down, were incredible.
Retail leader. Like, I, youknow, when I became a CEO, people
said, you're a CEO of a retailcompany, but you don't have an mba,
blah, blah, blah. And I waslike, but I worked at the gap for
almost 10 years and that waslike getting a retail MBA. Like,
it literally was amazing. Andthen I would say Disney, which I
(03:13):
think Disney's known for. Imean, I was blessed with amazing
leadership for 11 of my 12years. And then I had a rough leadership
situation the last year, whichactually made me leave the company
and made me leave my favoritejob. I mean, that my favorite job
(03:35):
was president of Disney Store.And I had done that for four years
and I had one boss for threeyears and one boss for one year,
and it changed everything.
Okay, so not that I want totalk about the bad, but I do want
to talk about the bad. Whatwas that? Like, what the ugly part
about it?
You know, I just think fromday one, like, it was weird that
(03:56):
I was at Disney for 12 yearsand I had the same boss for 11 years.
That's very odd. And his namewas Andy Mooney. And he, he just
understood how to manage me,and he mentored me and let me grow
and set really aggressivegoals and was constantly giving feedback.
(04:18):
But then he also let me go andjust let me do my job. And when he
left the company, he wasreplaced by somebody who I knew because
it was an internal promotion.Not from. In our group, from another
group within Disney. And fromday one, it was pretty obvious that
we were oil and water and thatthe way that we approach things was
(04:42):
quite different. And my firsttouch base with him was eight weeks
after he started. And Ithought that was a pretty big indication
because he only had, like,eight direct reports. And so I was
like, I literally was going tomy assistant every day, Jacqueline,
saying, did that. Did hisoffice call? Like, did we miss something?
(05:04):
Like, am I supposed to belike, when's my what? Like, I was
going to group meetings, buteverybody else was having these one
on ones and I wasn't havingthem. And I thought, okay, he's just
putting me at the end. Allright. And the, the, the first touch
base, he was like, I, youknow, I think you're a great executive.
I know your reputation.Everybody in the company really likes
what you do. I really don'tlike your business. He just did not
(05:27):
like the retail business and,like, put me instantly on the defensive
with him the entire time Iworked with him. Right. I felt like
I was justifying the existenceof my business unit, right. This
$2 billion Disney storebusiness around the world. And it
(05:48):
just was a contentiousrelationship from day one. And I
had an executive coach andwould go to my executive coaching
sessions and work on how I wasgoing to communicate better and what
I was going to do differently.And it really was through the coaching
where I realized my bosswasn't going to change. I was changing
(06:12):
as much as I could, but I waschanging in ways that I wasn't happy
and that I was ultimatelygoing to have to leave. Like, you
know, that I. That it was abattle I couldn't win. And it was
an extremely difficultdecision and it took me forever to
make. But when I look at mypath. So I left Disney in 2012, but
(06:32):
when I look at 2012 to today,I don't think any of what I have
done would have been enabledhad I stayed at Disney, I think my
path would have lookedcompletely different.
You know, there's a saying, ifyou can't change your team, change
your team, right? So you'vegot to. Right? So in this case, you
know, you just changed yourteam, which was the different company.
(06:55):
So.
Yeah, and, you know, I was alittle bit. I mean, you know, the
quote that's always, you know,ascribed to Einstein is the definition
of insanity is doing the samething over and over again and expecting
different results. I felt likethat's what was happening in our
working relationship, becauseI was trying. I literally wanted
to be a team player. I wantedto be on his team, and I wanted to
(07:19):
perform. But there was thingsabout the business that were just
endemic and systemic to thatbusiness that I couldn't change.
I mean, we had 400 storesaround the world with leases and
people working in them. Like,I couldn't snap my fingers and just
make that go away. So it was.It was an interesting time. That
year was an interesting time.And. And I know from listening to
(07:41):
your other episodes, you know,many of your guests have said, I
actually think you learn morefrom the bad leaders in those situations
than you do from the goodleaders. Like, I definitely grew.
Even though it was painful, Igrew out of that pain. And I think
I became a better leader in mysubsequent roles because of all the
(08:01):
things that he was doing to meor with me. And I was like, I don't
want to do that to anybody. Inever want. I never want to do that
to anybody. So I'm going to bedifferent. I'm going to work differently.
Right? And it's true, like, you.
We.
We really learn in the down,and we rise up to the next wave.
(08:24):
So speak. And then we'll havesomething else that's a. That's a
down, and we'll keep learning.You know, it is that process.
It is. And it's. I love thatyou say that, Jacqueline, because
when I meet with youngleaders, I'm like, it is a roller
coaster. You know, like,everybody looks at your resume or
looks at your LinkedIn, andthey think it was like this smooth,
linear, you know, ski. Skijump thing. Right? And I'm like,
(08:48):
no, like, it was. And.
Yeah, it's more like the moguls.
It is. It is. Yeah. It's a lotof, like, knee injuries and ankle
injuries and, you know,bruises and. And. But I think it's
so important for young peopleto understand that. Right. Because
it's not, of course, what's onyour LinkedIn. It looks like the
(09:11):
land of milk and honey, butit's not always like that.
It's not. It's not. Right.It's not. You know, And. And so.
So your next place you went towas DreamWorks.
No. Claire's that's when Ibecame CEO of Claire's.
Claire's. So I'm like, Claireis like my ears. Right.
So I went back to retail. Iwent back to retail. Exactly. So
(09:33):
I. As I was consideringleaving and listen, I was born in
the Midwest and worked for afireman and policeman, so I had to
be prepared. Right. And Iwasn't going to leave without knowing
where I was going, even thoughI didn't announce it when I left.
So as I was interviewing andkind of going through the what color
is my parachute? I was.Because I had been president of Disney
(09:58):
Store, I was eligible for CEOof retail jobs. And there was. At
that time, there was a coupleof really interesting ones open.
And I interviewed for three orfour different brands. And I kept
coming back to Claire'sbecause I did understand the Claire's
customer. I understood fromall my years at Disney. I understood
(10:18):
that teen tween consumer. Andto your point, the ear piercing experience
and the birthday experienceand the, you know, the Claire's thrived
because of the mall, you know,the mall rats. We loved the mall
rats. Right. Where they getdropped off by their parents with
$20 and, you know, they'd comein and buy three pairs of earrings
(10:39):
and then go get a pretzel inthe food court. We understood her
and him. We had male customersas well. So I really was. I was really
drawn to that one. And I alsolove that it was global. You know,
Claire's, we had stores in 41countries, and I had been working
so hard in global with Disneythat I wanted global. And some of
(11:00):
the other opportunities wereus only. So it ticked all the right
boxes for me. I mean, it meantmoving, and it was also moving back
to the Midwest because theywere based in Chicago. So it was.
I think I was feeling myMidwestern roots a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. So when you'rethinking about this, you know, I
(11:21):
mean, the places that you'vebeen and what we were talking about
before the. At the start ofthe podcast.
Yeah.
What has led you to thatmission? You know, having the mission
of being a human. Humancentered leadership.
Yeah, I think it really waswhen I wrote the book and started
(11:42):
going through. I've been ajournaler since I was like, 13 and
including the entire, youknow, the entire time I was CEO and
stuff, I just. I have a couplebins full of journals, and I really
went back and looked at a lotof those journals as I was preparing
for the book and, you know,talked to a lot of people that had
worked for me, worked with me,like, as I was kind of doing the
(12:02):
research for the book and Inever really thought I had a leadership
style, you know what I mean?Like, Howard Schultz, who's somebody
I admire from Starbucks, wasalways called himself a servant leader.
Right. And he kind of definedservant leadership. And I was like,
well, I'm not really aservant. Like, I'm a servant leader.
(12:23):
I believe in servantleadership. It's also very human
focused. But I said what Irealized and I think part of it was
having moved through corporateas an out gay man. I was always about
creating cultures andenvironments where people could bring
their full authentic selves towork and could feel physically and
(12:45):
psychologically safe to bethemselves. And so I was managing
diversity and DEI before itwas an acronym, before it was woke
and all the things it is. Ialways believed that our team had
to be diverse, not only in itsmakeup, but diverse in thought and
(13:06):
diverse in experience anddiverse in age. And that's. I was
always very human focused. AndI was known for people still to this
day would be like, I can'tremember how you remembered everybody's
names. Right. Like, I wasknown for walking around the floor
and talking with people andcalling people by name and asking
them about their children.That was just naturally me. So when
(13:29):
I had a. Kind of did theresearch and like, what was my style?
I kept coming back toauthentic leadership, that there
was a movement on authenticleadership. And I was like, oh, that's
what I am. And then I, I'vebeen morphing that lately with some
stuff I'm working on into thishuman centered leadership where it's
just, it's, it's leading withempathy, it's leading with kindness,
(13:51):
it's leading with equity andjustice, and it's just leading with
creating, like I said,thriving environments. And it's really
about building culture. Right.Like my leadership style was about
building culture.
That's what it was about, youknow, and I think that it's so true
and it's, it's so importantand, and you know, it's been a topic
(14:12):
of conversation quite with alot of, of guests. You know, we're
talking about, you know,making sure that no matter what,
whether you're the CEO orwhatever your position is, if you
are leading a team, you know,to share the vision and mission of
what the team is doing.
Yes.
But also really get to knowthe people in, in your team, on your
(14:35):
team, so that you can relateit back. Like, so if I know that,
you know, if you, if you're onmy team, And I'm. And you said to
me, you know, I have thisdream of one day, whatever it is,
I want to be able to say,okay, guess what, Jim, you know what?
This position and what we'redoing, I want to explain to you how
(14:59):
I think it ties back to yourvision for you.
Yes.
Or your personal mission.
This is why I love listeningto you, Jacqueline, because I always
said, like, the mission andvision can't just be some statement
that's up on a wall or on apiece of paper. It's your job as
the leader to chunk thatmission and vision out and make every
(15:20):
person understand on the teamhow they're contributing to the mission
and vision. So how is theaccountant doing it? And how is the
graphic designer doing it? Andhow is the intern doing it? Because
you're all contributing tothat mission and vision. And I. I'm
not saying I want you to belike a cult, but I want you to believe
that what you're doing ismoving that mission and vision forward.
(15:43):
You know, it's true in someways. It is. It's like being.
Yeah. Like. And it's. It is.It's your job.
Right. It's, like, to embodythat, like, desire to know that each
and every one of the peoplethat are in that company. And I say
every. Everybody's a teamplayer. That everybody on the team,
(16:04):
from the person that might bethe security guard.
Yeah.
That is Cleaning thebathrooms. We all are on the same
mission of whatever thatgreatness is that we collectively
want to do.
So 100%.
So you said something that I.That I really want to tap into, and
(16:28):
that is. You said, reallyhaving a great, diverse group. And
I personally will tell youthat I hate, like, I hate labels.
Like, I don't want to, Like.
Yes.
No offense. When DEI became alabel, I was like, you just ruined
it, you know?
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Forsure. And it became. It became performative
(16:50):
and something that we werecounting, and that's never what it
was supposed to be. Butanyway. Yes.
Right. So it's. And I. I'll goback to one. You know what? I. In
the 80s, when I was applyingto colleges and all those interesting,
fun things, and it's like, youknow, you were like, oh, I. Well,
I hit the quota of thediversity for women at this school.
Yeah.
(17:12):
And. Or if I'm getting a job,you just. You just never want that
to be a thing. So I'm just.
Yeah. I never. I never wantedto be a diversity hire. No. Like
it. No. No. But I think whenI, when the word diverse that I use
and I could interchange itwith unique is because of exactly
what you're saying. Because Ithink good ideas can come from anywhere.
(17:33):
I think it's, I'm not titledriven, I'm not hierarchical driven
where it's like all the ideashappen at one level and then everybody
else just executes. I don'tbelieve in that, that. I wanted diversity
of thought and diversity ofexperience and especially in retail
and in media andentertainment. I was in consumer
facing businesses and I alwayswanted the teams that I was building
(17:58):
and working with to alsoreflect our customer base. Right.
Like I really wanted them.Like when you talk about a brand
like Disney, Disney isubiquitous, right? I mean, Disney,
I mean most people like Disneyand most people go through a phase,
especially if they havechildren, where Disney is a big part
of their life. And, and thatmeans all, all different countries
(18:21):
and different regions withinthe United States. There you go.
There you go. I mean it's,it's part of, it's part of people's
stories. I mean I, I grew upon it. My mom, my mom, oh my God,
my mom and my grandmother arehuge Disney fans. And so I was raised
on Disney. So I, I alwayswanted a group that reflected our
(18:44):
customer base, right? So if Iwalked into a room at Disney Store
and I saw a bunch of young,bright college graduates who had
all gone to Ivy League schoolsand, or all West Coast, I was like,
we're not really reflectingwhat we're building this product
for, what we're building thisexperience for. And so that's really.
(19:08):
When I was working with HR andmy chief people officer and building
teams, it wasn't about quotas,it wasn't about counting. It was
about any time there was anopen position. I just asked recruiting
and HR present a wide array ofcandidates. Do not present me five
people that look exactly thesame, that have the same resume.
(19:32):
I want the hiring managers tohave choice and I want them to be
challenged to thinkdifferently. And I think it was particularly
important in global businessesbecause the worst thing, when I was
the global head of Claire,when I was CEO of Claire's and global
head of Disney Store, I neverwanted to be called to American because
(19:53):
we did more business at DisneyStore outside the US Than we did
inside the US and even thoughcorporate headquarters was in the
US I had very strong teams inLondon and Tokyo and in South America.
I wanted their voices to berepresented at the table. I wanted
their customers, their guests,as we called them at Disney, to be
(20:14):
represented. And so I was verycautious of being too American and
having like an American bias.And if anybody said to me, that product
is too American, it won't workin our market, I really had to look
at it and say, okay, are theyright? You know, is this a non invented
here syndrome or is it justtoo American? It was so important
(20:39):
for global teams. So important.
Yeah. You know, and so, sothis is what I was going to ask you
about. It's diversity versus values.
It's, it's, again, I think itgoes back to the authentic leadership
and the human centeredleadership. It's, it's. I want everybody's
(21:02):
uniqueness. Like, I, I lovecooking. Cooking is one of my passions.
And I love creating stews andsoups. I think, again, it's Midwestern,
right? And I think it's fun.When you put unexpected ingredients
together into the gumbo andall of a sudden the gumbo, like if
you look at a gumbo recipe,like a New Orleans gumbo recipe,
(21:23):
it honestly doesn't make senseon paper because you're like, wait,
it's got shrimp and sausageand crawfish and like, it's got the
weirdest assortment of things.And you think this is going to be
a train wreck. And when youbring it all together and let it
simmer and let it stew, all ofa sudden you've got this bowl of
amazingness with red beans andrice. And that's to me, like, I was
(21:46):
always trying to create thatstew where it was like, I didn't
want an echo chamber. I didn'twant, you know, I mean, my God, Disney
store had 10,000 employees,but say we had 800 people in headquarters.
I did not want 800 clones ofmyself. I didn't want, and I didn't
want people who are just goingto be sycophants and just say back
to me, yeah, you're right,you're right, you're right. I wanted
(22:08):
to be challenged. I wanted, I,I wanted people who are like, well,
you know what? I worked at NBCUniversal and we did it this way
and this really worked. I'mlike, oh, okay, let's talk about
that. You know, I mean,that's. So, that's why I say diversity
of experience and I thinkdiversity of age, right? Like generations.
(22:29):
Like, yes, I loved the internsand the new college graduates, but
I also loved my 30 yearveterans who had been there, done
that, seen it, all right?Like, had weathered every storm.
We talked about the rollercoaster. Had weathered every storm.
And I loved putting them onteams together and making them figure
out how to work together tosee what would come out of the stew.
(22:52):
I mean, that's really what itwas about.
Yeah. No, it's not easy.
It's not easy.
No, I don't think it is. Solet me ask you, so you, you, you
started, you were at the Gap,right? And department stores and
then Gap. Okay, so what, whatdo you think was the quintessential
(23:17):
point that helped you rise upto where you be you a hundred %?
No, I 100% know the tippingpoint. And I think it's a really
important lesson. And I again,when I'm with students, I tell them
this. So when I was hired bythe Gap, I was hired as a district
(23:38):
manager, which meant I ranstores. I was originally hired in
Detroit and then I got movedto Chicago. So I had like, at any
time between 10 to 12 stores,I was in the field organization.
Like we were running storesand I was very good at running stores.
I was very neat, clean, wellmerchandised, motivated teams. We
(24:00):
hit our numbers and I was on afield career path, which meant I
was going to be a districtmanager and then a regional manager,
and then I wanted to be thevice president of stores. That was
the career path I was on. AndI can tell you 100% the tipping point.
I was running stores inChicago. Mickey Drexler, who was
the CEO of Gap, brought fourof his executives from Gap headquarters
(24:24):
in San Francisco to visitstores in Chicago. And we were on
a cost cutting time, so we didnot rent cars with drivers. That
meant we had to drivedifferent people around between the
stores. So you're very nervousbecause you're like, first off, you're
driving and you don't want toget in an accident, but you're basically
being interviewed the wholetime you're in the car. Right. I
(24:46):
got the pleasure of drivingMickey between a couple of different
stores and one of his otherexecutive vice presidents. And about
a week after that visit, myboss called me and said, hey, San
Francisco thinks you're amerchant. And I said, what? Like
what, What's a merchant? Ididn't even know what a merchant
was. And she said that, yeah,the people that do the product in
(25:08):
the stores, they think you'dbe a really interesting merchant.
And they're starting thistraining program where they're going
to train merchants. They wantpeople from the field to train merchants.
She said, now I'm going to behonest with you. It's, it's going
to be a lateral, almostbackward move because you're going
from being a district managerto being a merchant trainee. But
(25:29):
I want you to. I think youshould go out to San Francisco and
interview for this and seewhat you think. They want you to
fly out, spend a week, go tosome meetings and see what you think.
And I was like, all right. Andso I went out and by the third meeting
of the first day, I was like,oh, I'm a merchant. I didn't even
know I was a merchant. The waythat I looked at the business was
(25:52):
from the only the peoplestandpoint, but the product standpoint.
And by the end of the week andall the interviews and meeting the
people I met, it's. I wantedto do it. And so I made a calculated
move, but a risky move. I lefta career path that I was thriving
in and moved into becoming atrainee overnight. Like, literally
(26:15):
a startee. Like, I mean, I wasbasically in a neophyte. And those
first six months, I had somuch self doubt and insecurity because
I was like, what did you do?Because I would be in meetings and
I wouldn't know what they weretalking about, and I would think,
oh, my God, you've completelyscrewed up your career. And. And
(26:37):
I. Those first six months, Iwas taking work home every night.
I was studying like I was in amaster's class. And then all of a
sudden, at like six months,the light kicked in and I became
a really, really successfulmerchant. And I did men's knits,
I did sweaters, I didactivewear. And when I became a president
(26:58):
of a retailer and a CEO of aretailer, I was a unique person because
I had both the field side and,and the product side, and not many
people had that. So eventhough I never sat there when I made
that decision to make thatmove and say, oh, this is going to
help me be a CEO someday, itdid help me become a CEO someday.
(27:19):
I mean, that changed my careerpath for sure, and the learning and
going around the world. Itraveled around the world making
Gap productions, SoutheastAsia, Africa, Italy. Yeah, it was.
It was unbelievable. I madedenim in the old days when we still
(27:40):
made denim in the UnitedStates. And oh my God, I love it.
I use Georgia denim that wasthen cut and sewn in Kentucky and
Washington, Texas. It was, itwas an incredible education, but
it was an on the job trainingprogram, basically.
You know, I love that. And I.And I. So I. You know, listeners,
as you hear that, this is ahuge game changer because there's
(28:01):
a couple things. It's likegiving people an opportunity, you
know, sometimes, you know,somebody, you know, and I Know that
not everybody can get in frontof the CEOs.
Totally.
You want to know whateverybody can. If you want to. I
am sure if you want to theCEOs like, oh, make the appointment
happen. You know, be that, be,be the nail that's driving and if
(28:28):
you want that meeting, make ithappen. But, but really the key is,
is, is is looking at thepeople that are in your tribe and
helping them pull out the bestin them.
Yeah, they saw a spark in methat I didn't know existed. And,
(28:49):
and because people invested inme. I think that's why I'm so invested
in mentoring and training andleadership development. Because I,
I want to help people findtheir true calling, their true passion.
And I, people invested in me.I've been very lucky. I write about
(29:09):
it in the book. I had someincredible bosses and mentors along
the way and I then I had somebad ones. But I learned from all
of them and right. I mean I'mstill, I'm still in touch with all
of them today. I mean some ofthem aren't living anymore, but anybody
that's living, I'm in touchwith those people. Yeah, I'm of a
(29:31):
certain age now whereunfortunately some of your bosses
at best on. But I mean even,even my last, my last quote, corporate
box boss Stacy Snyder at Fox,like I learned so much from her and
I spent three years at Fox and18 months of that was when we were
being acquired by Disney. Likethat was a high stress time when
(29:54):
you're being bought by acompetitor basically. And her leadership
and style and grace underpressure and compassion for how she
led us during that transitionmade me be a better leader for my
people during that transitionfor sure. Because I would be like,
(30:15):
oh, Stacy's incredible atthis. I gotta up my game. Like I,
I've got to get better atthis. And you know, anybody who's
been through a merger andacquisition, when you're the little
fish being eaten by the bigfish, it's a really, really hard.
Yes, it's a really hard role.It's, you know, it's really demoralizing
(30:38):
and you're basically justtrying to hold onto a team and you
keep smiling and saying it'sbusiness as usual and it's business
as usual when you know that'slike a crock. It's not business as
usual and everybody'spanicking about what their job is
and do they have a future andit's so hard. Like that was probably
my hardest managementchallenge ever was managing those
(30:58):
18 months. But because I wasbeing managed well, I think I did
it okay.
Right. It helps you do it.Yeah, it's. Yeah, right. Because
when you see it, you can, youcan model it too. Right? It's a great,
It's a great.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, Yeah, Ijust had to be accessible at all
times. That's the way she was.
(31:20):
Yeah. So, you know, Jim, Icould talk to you for hours. You
know, if there's one keylesson. We've shared quite a bit.
You know, we talked about, youknow, obviously, you know, mission
centered leadership, but you,we also, and I think this is the
part that, that I think isreally important. We also. You haven't,
(31:40):
we've touched on it, buthaven't touched on it. A lot of the
companies that you've beenwith, there's been a creative element
to it. And we talked about thebeforehand before the show started,
storytelling. And I thinkstorytelling in business is really
important. So can you shareyour insights on, on storytelling
(32:01):
and the impact it can make?
Oh my gosh. I mean, I, I'm astoryteller. Yeah, no, I know. I
am a storyteller. That's whyI'm like, I gotta do the edited version.
But to me, yeah. When I lookback at my, my career, every company
I worked at had authentic. Ithad an authentic stories or authentic
(32:22):
stories at its core. And Ialways felt that it was easier to
market, it was easier tocreate product, it was easier to
create training programs whenyou were coming from a place of an
authentic story where youweren't having to make anything up.
I just think that storytellingis tale as old as time. It's been
(32:45):
around for the millenniums andpeople learn, I think more effectively
through stories and throughstory sharing than they do in like
a classroom, especially foradult learners, where it's like one
way communication. Like, Ithink what I love about storytelling
is it's usually inherently twoway communication or group communication
(33:07):
and people are sharing storiesand it's like a different way of
communication than going tolike a one way training for four
hours where someone's justreading you a PowerPoint and you're
trying to learn as you go. Ithink, I think storytelling influences
the product you're working onthe marketing programs, you're working
(33:28):
on the communication, thetraining programs, all of it. I mean,
I think it's, it's at the coreof everything. And I, I don't think
I could work for a brand or acompany that didn't have an authentic
story at its core. Even likethe authentic story of Gap, which
was founded by the Fisherfamily in 1969. Named after the generation
(33:49):
gap like that literallyfounded in Haight Ashbury in San
Francisco. That was at thecore of our DNA. Would definitely
was at the core of our DNA.
I think it's such a keyimportant message because it also
ties back to that vision andmission of a company of where it
(34:12):
is and knowing that storyabout the, about the why we want
it to be and what we are, weneed to incorporate. So for sure.
So I could talk to you for hours.
Thank you.
There's so much great wisdom.You how can people can. How can our
listeners connect with you,learn more, even more about you?
(34:34):
You know, maybe jump into someof your coaching, get some of your
books.
Yes. Yeah, I mean that. Well,my website is super easy. It's Hi,
hi Jim fielding.com like hiJim fielding.com I'm Jim Fielding
on LinkedIn and it is me. It'snot a bot answering you. People DM
me all the time. My book AllPride, no Ego is available anywhere
(34:56):
books are sold. Amazon, anylocal bookstores. Instagram is hi
Jim Fielding. It's I'm reallytransparent. I post every day on
LinkedIn. I'm telling storiesall the time on LinkedIn, the website.
I'm constantly updating andthen yeah, I mean, you know, coaching
(35:17):
services. I do public speakingall over the country. I've been around
the world now doing publicspeaking. I love being in community.
I love being with groups ofpeople. I'm a people person so. And
I love meeting new peoplethrough LinkedIn. It's really easy.
Yeah, no, that's reallyfantastic. So listeners, please do
(35:41):
me a favor, reach out to Jim.I will put links in the show notes
so you can reach him, connectwith him but please go to LinkedIn,
go to his website, go tofollow him on Instagram. You know
I will be and if you havegotten great value out of this podcast
episode which I am sure youhave because we've had some amazing
(36:02):
game changing insights ofclicking the altogether amazing subscribe
button. Do me one other favorand please share this episode with
your friends, your colleaguesand other people who you think could
be an amazing leader or canget value out of this. And remember
we're each and every one of usis the CEO of our own lives. So we
(36:23):
lead ourselves so and that youknow. I am Jacqueline Stranger, host
of Unstoppable LeadershipSpotlight podcast. Thank you for
listening and thank you Jimfor being an amazing guest.
Thank you for having me.
Foreign. And welcome toanother amazing episode of the Unstoppable
Leadership Spotlight podcastwhere we hear amazing leaders, their
game changing insights thathelp change and revolutionize leadership
and leaders today. And I wantto welcome to the podcast my amazing
(01:21):
guest, Jim Fielding. He is,well, an amazing leader. He has worked
at some awesome companies.Disney, DreamWorks, the Gap, Claire's,
Fox. I can keep going. And soleadership, obviously he knows all
about good, bad and uglyleadership and the art of storytelling
(01:44):
and strategic brand planning.And one of the key things that he
is talking about right now isauthentic leadership and that path
to personal authenticity. Andone of the key things, you know,
leadership and having, youknow, human centered leadership is
so pivotal, pivotal for today.And so we are going to hear a lot
(02:08):
about that from Jim today. Sowelcome to the show.
My gosh, thank you for havingme, Jaclyn. It's an honor. I'm thrilled
to be here.
I am so glad to have you. So.All right, so first I have to ask
a crazy question. You lookback at your, at the companies, you
know, Disney Players, Gab,Dreamwork, which one had the best
(02:31):
leaders?
Wow, that is a great question.I, I would. And I, I am not hedging.
I would say there's two, butit's different. I mean, the best
retail leadership by far wasmy years at the Gap. I mean, I was
at the Gap in the late 80s andmost all of the 90s. And the leaders
(02:52):
at Gap at that time, MickeyDrexler on down, were incredible.
Retail leader. Like, I, youknow, when I became a CEO, people
said, you're a CEO of a retailcompany, but you don't have an mba,
blah, blah, blah. And I waslike, but I worked at the gap for
almost 10 years and that waslike getting a retail MBA. Like,
it literally was amazing. Andthen I would say Disney, which I
(03:13):
think Disney's known for. Imean, I was blessed with amazing
leadership for 11 of my 12years. And then I had a rough leadership
situation the last year, whichactually made me leave the company
and made me leave my favoritejob. I mean, that my favorite job
(03:35):
was president of Disney Store.And I had done that for four years
and I had one boss for threeyears and one boss for one year,
and it changed everything.
Okay, so not that I want totalk about the bad, but I do want
to talk about the bad. Whatwas that? Like, what the ugly part
about it?
You know, I just think fromday one, like, it was weird that
(03:56):
I was at Disney for 12 yearsand I had the same boss for 11 years.
That's very odd. And his namewas Andy Mooney. And he, he just
understood how to manage me,and he mentored me and let me grow
and set really aggressivegoals and was constantly giving feedback.
(04:18):
But then he also let me go andjust let me do my job. And when he
left the company, he wasreplaced by somebody who I knew because
it was an internal promotion.Not from. In our group, from another
group within Disney. And fromday one, it was pretty obvious that
we were oil and water and thatthe way that we approach things was
(04:42):
quite different. And my firsttouch base with him was eight weeks
after he started. And Ithought that was a pretty big indication
because he only had, like,eight direct reports. And so I was
like, I literally was going tomy assistant every day, Jacqueline,
saying, did that. Did hisoffice call? Like, did we miss something?
(05:04):
Like, am I supposed to belike, when's my what? Like, I was
going to group meetings, buteverybody else was having these one
on ones and I wasn't havingthem. And I thought, okay, he's just
putting me at the end. Allright. And the, the, the first touch
base, he was like, I, youknow, I think you're a great executive.
I know your reputation.Everybody in the company really likes
what you do. I really don'tlike your business. He just did not
(05:27):
like the retail business and,like, put me instantly on the defensive
with him the entire time Iworked with him. Right. I felt like
I was justifying the existenceof my business unit, right. This
$2 billion Disney storebusiness around the world. And it
(05:48):
just was a contentiousrelationship from day one. And I
had an executive coach andwould go to my executive coaching
sessions and work on how I wasgoing to communicate better and what
I was going to do differently.And it really was through the coaching
where I realized my bosswasn't going to change. I was changing
(06:12):
as much as I could, but I waschanging in ways that I wasn't happy
and that I was ultimatelygoing to have to leave. Like, you
know, that I. That it was abattle I couldn't win. And it was
an extremely difficultdecision and it took me forever to
make. But when I look at mypath. So I left Disney in 2012, but
(06:32):
when I look at 2012 to today,I don't think any of what I have
done would have been enabledhad I stayed at Disney, I think my
path would have lookedcompletely different.
You know, there's a saying, ifyou can't change your team, change
your team, right? So you'vegot to. Right? So in this case, you
know, you just changed yourteam, which was the different company.
(06:55):
So.
Yeah, and, you know, I was alittle bit. I mean, you know, the
quote that's always, you know,ascribed to Einstein is the definition
of insanity is doing the samething over and over again and expecting
different results. I felt likethat's what was happening in our
working relationship, becauseI was trying. I literally wanted
to be a team player. I wantedto be on his team, and I wanted to
(07:19):
perform. But there was thingsabout the business that were just
endemic and systemic to thatbusiness that I couldn't change.
I mean, we had 400 storesaround the world with leases and
people working in them. Like,I couldn't snap my fingers and just
make that go away. So it was.It was an interesting time. That
year was an interesting time.And. And I know from listening to
(07:41):
your other episodes, you know,many of your guests have said, I
actually think you learn morefrom the bad leaders in those situations
than you do from the goodleaders. Like, I definitely grew.
Even though it was painful, Igrew out of that pain. And I think
I became a better leader in mysubsequent roles because of all the
(08:01):
things that he was doing to meor with me. And I was like, I don't
want to do that to anybody. Inever want. I never want to do that
to anybody. So I'm going to bedifferent. I'm going to work differently.
Right? And it's true, like, you.
We.
We really learn in the down,and we rise up to the next wave.
(08:24):
So speak. And then we'll havesomething else that's a. That's a
down, and we'll keep learning.You know, it is that process.
It is. And it's. I love thatyou say that, Jacqueline, because
when I meet with youngleaders, I'm like, it is a roller
coaster. You know, like,everybody looks at your resume or
looks at your LinkedIn, andthey think it was like this smooth,
linear, you know, ski. Skijump thing. Right? And I'm like,
(08:48):
no, like, it was. And.
Yeah, it's more like the moguls.
It is. It is. Yeah. It's a lotof, like, knee injuries and ankle
injuries and, you know,bruises and. And. But I think it's
so important for young peopleto understand that. Right. Because
it's not, of course, what's onyour LinkedIn. It looks like the
(09:11):
land of milk and honey, butit's not always like that.
It's not. It's not. Right.It's not. You know, And. And so.
So your next place you went towas DreamWorks.
No. Claire's that's when Ibecame CEO of Claire's.
Claire's. So I'm like, Claireis like my ears. Right.
So I went back to retail. Iwent back to retail. Exactly. So
(09:33):
I. As I was consideringleaving and listen, I was born in
the Midwest and worked for afireman and policeman, so I had to
be prepared. Right. And Iwasn't going to leave without knowing
where I was going, even thoughI didn't announce it when I left.
So as I was interviewing andkind of going through the what color
is my parachute? I was.Because I had been president of Disney
(09:58):
Store, I was eligible for CEOof retail jobs. And there was. At
that time, there was a coupleof really interesting ones open.
And I interviewed for three orfour different brands. And I kept
coming back to Claire'sbecause I did understand the Claire's
customer. I understood fromall my years at Disney. I understood
(10:18):
that teen tween consumer. Andto your point, the ear piercing experience
and the birthday experienceand the, you know, the Claire's thrived
because of the mall, you know,the mall rats. We loved the mall
rats. Right. Where they getdropped off by their parents with
$20 and, you know, they'd comein and buy three pairs of earrings
(10:39):
and then go get a pretzel inthe food court. We understood her
and him. We had male customersas well. So I really was. I was really
drawn to that one. And I alsolove that it was global. You know,
Claire's, we had stores in 41countries, and I had been working
so hard in global with Disneythat I wanted global. And some of
(11:00):
the other opportunities wereus only. So it ticked all the right
boxes for me. I mean, it meantmoving, and it was also moving back
to the Midwest because theywere based in Chicago. So it was.
I think I was feeling myMidwestern roots a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. So when you'rethinking about this, you know, I
(11:21):
mean, the places that you'vebeen and what we were talking about
before the. At the start ofthe podcast.
Yeah.
What has led you to thatmission? You know, having the mission
of being a human. Humancentered leadership.
Yeah, I think it really waswhen I wrote the book and started
(11:42):
going through. I've been ajournaler since I was like, 13 and
including the entire, youknow, the entire time I was CEO and
stuff, I just. I have a couplebins full of journals, and I really
went back and looked at a lotof those journals as I was preparing
for the book and, you know,talked to a lot of people that had
worked for me, worked with me,like, as I was kind of doing the
(12:02):
research for the book and Inever really thought I had a leadership
style, you know what I mean?Like, Howard Schultz, who's somebody
I admire from Starbucks, wasalways called himself a servant leader.
Right. And he kind of definedservant leadership. And I was like,
well, I'm not really aservant. Like, I'm a servant leader.
(12:23):
I believe in servantleadership. It's also very human
focused. But I said what Irealized and I think part of it was
having moved through corporateas an out gay man. I was always about
creating cultures andenvironments where people could bring
their full authentic selves towork and could feel physically and
(12:45):
psychologically safe to bethemselves. And so I was managing
diversity and DEI before itwas an acronym, before it was woke
and all the things it is. Ialways believed that our team had
to be diverse, not only in itsmakeup, but diverse in thought and
(13:06):
diverse in experience anddiverse in age. And that's. I was
always very human focused. AndI was known for people still to this
day would be like, I can'tremember how you remembered everybody's
names. Right. Like, I wasknown for walking around the floor
and talking with people andcalling people by name and asking
them about their children.That was just naturally me. So when
(13:29):
I had a. Kind of did theresearch and like, what was my style?
I kept coming back toauthentic leadership, that there
was a movement on authenticleadership. And I was like, oh, that's
what I am. And then I, I'vebeen morphing that lately with some
stuff I'm working on into thishuman centered leadership where it's
just, it's, it's leading withempathy, it's leading with kindness,
(13:51):
it's leading with equity andjustice, and it's just leading with
creating, like I said,thriving environments. And it's really
about building culture. Right.Like my leadership style was about
building culture.
That's what it was about, youknow, and I think that it's so true
and it's, it's so importantand, and you know, it's been a topic
(14:12):
of conversation quite with alot of, of guests. You know, we're
talking about, you know,making sure that no matter what,
whether you're the CEO orwhatever your position is, if you
are leading a team, you know,to share the vision and mission of
what the team is doing.
Yes.
But also really get to knowthe people in, in your team, on your
(14:35):
team, so that you can relateit back. Like, so if I know that,
you know, if you, if you're onmy team, And I'm. And you said to
me, you know, I have thisdream of one day, whatever it is,
I want to be able to say,okay, guess what, Jim, you know what?
This position and what we'redoing, I want to explain to you how
(14:59):
I think it ties back to yourvision for you.
Yes.
Or your personal mission.
This is why I love listeningto you, Jacqueline, because I always
said, like, the mission andvision can't just be some statement
that's up on a wall or on apiece of paper. It's your job as
the leader to chunk thatmission and vision out and make every
(15:20):
person understand on the teamhow they're contributing to the mission
and vision. So how is theaccountant doing it? And how is the
graphic designer doing it? Andhow is the intern doing it? Because
you're all contributing tothat mission and vision. And I. I'm
not saying I want you to belike a cult, but I want you to believe
that what you're doing ismoving that mission and vision forward.
(15:43):
You know, it's true in someways. It is. It's like being.
Yeah. Like. And it's. It is.It's your job.
Right. It's, like, to embodythat, like, desire to know that each
and every one of the peoplethat are in that company. And I say
every. Everybody's a teamplayer. That everybody on the team,
(16:04):
from the person that might bethe security guard.
Yeah.
That is Cleaning thebathrooms. We all are on the same
mission of whatever thatgreatness is that we collectively
want to do.
So 100%.
So you said something that I.That I really want to tap into, and
(16:28):
that is. You said, reallyhaving a great, diverse group. And
I personally will tell youthat I hate, like, I hate labels.
Like, I don't want to, Like.
Yes.
No offense. When DEI became alabel, I was like, you just ruined
it, you know?
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Forsure. And it became. It became performative
(16:50):
and something that we werecounting, and that's never what it
was supposed to be. Butanyway. Yes.
Right. So it's. And I. I'll goback to one. You know what? I. In
the 80s, when I was applyingto colleges and all those interesting,
fun things, and it's like, youknow, you were like, oh, I. Well,
I hit the quota of thediversity for women at this school.
Yeah.
(17:12):
And. Or if I'm getting a job,you just. You just never want that
to be a thing. So I'm just.
Yeah. I never. I never wantedto be a diversity hire. No. Like
it. No. No. But I think whenI, when the word diverse that I use
and I could interchange itwith unique is because of exactly
what you're saying. Because Ithink good ideas can come from anywhere.
(17:33):
I think it's, I'm not titledriven, I'm not hierarchical driven
where it's like all the ideashappen at one level and then everybody
else just executes. I don'tbelieve in that, that. I wanted diversity
of thought and diversity ofexperience and especially in retail
and in media andentertainment. I was in consumer
facing businesses and I alwayswanted the teams that I was building
(17:58):
and working with to alsoreflect our customer base. Right.
Like I really wanted them.Like when you talk about a brand
like Disney, Disney isubiquitous, right? I mean, Disney,
I mean most people like Disneyand most people go through a phase,
especially if they havechildren, where Disney is a big part
of their life. And, and thatmeans all, all different countries
(18:21):
and different regions withinthe United States. There you go.
There you go. I mean it's,it's part of, it's part of people's
stories. I mean I, I grew upon it. My mom, my mom, oh my God,
my mom and my grandmother arehuge Disney fans. And so I was raised
on Disney. So I, I alwayswanted a group that reflected our
(18:44):
customer base, right? So if Iwalked into a room at Disney Store
and I saw a bunch of young,bright college graduates who had
all gone to Ivy League schoolsand, or all West Coast, I was like,
we're not really reflectingwhat we're building this product
for, what we're building thisexperience for. And so that's really.
(19:08):
When I was working with HR andmy chief people officer and building
teams, it wasn't about quotas,it wasn't about counting. It was
about any time there was anopen position. I just asked recruiting
and HR present a wide array ofcandidates. Do not present me five
people that look exactly thesame, that have the same resume.
(19:32):
I want the hiring managers tohave choice and I want them to be
challenged to thinkdifferently. And I think it was particularly
important in global businessesbecause the worst thing, when I was
the global head of Claire,when I was CEO of Claire's and global
head of Disney Store, I neverwanted to be called to American because
(19:53):
we did more business at DisneyStore outside the US Than we did
inside the US and even thoughcorporate headquarters was in the
US I had very strong teams inLondon and Tokyo and in South America.
I wanted their voices to berepresented at the table. I wanted
their customers, their guests,as we called them at Disney, to be
(20:14):
represented. And so I was verycautious of being too American and
having like an American bias.And if anybody said to me, that product
is too American, it won't workin our market, I really had to look
at it and say, okay, are theyright? You know, is this a non invented
here syndrome or is it justtoo American? It was so important
(20:39):
for global teams. So important.
Yeah. You know, and so, sothis is what I was going to ask you
about. It's diversity versus values.
It's, it's, again, I think itgoes back to the authentic leadership
and the human centeredleadership. It's, it's. I want everybody's
(21:02):
uniqueness. Like, I, I lovecooking. Cooking is one of my passions.
And I love creating stews andsoups. I think, again, it's Midwestern,
right? And I think it's fun.When you put unexpected ingredients
together into the gumbo andall of a sudden the gumbo, like if
you look at a gumbo recipe,like a New Orleans gumbo recipe,
(21:23):
it honestly doesn't make senseon paper because you're like, wait,
it's got shrimp and sausageand crawfish and like, it's got the
weirdest assortment of things.And you think this is going to be
a train wreck. And when youbring it all together and let it
simmer and let it stew, all ofa sudden you've got this bowl of
amazingness with red beans andrice. And that's to me, like, I was
(21:46):
always trying to create thatstew where it was like, I didn't
want an echo chamber. I didn'twant, you know, I mean, my God, Disney
store had 10,000 employees,but say we had 800 people in headquarters.
I did not want 800 clones ofmyself. I didn't want, and I didn't
want people who are just goingto be sycophants and just say back
to me, yeah, you're right,you're right, you're right. I wanted
(22:08):
to be challenged. I wanted, I,I wanted people who are like, well,
you know what? I worked at NBCUniversal and we did it this way
and this really worked. I'mlike, oh, okay, let's talk about
that. You know, I mean,that's. So, that's why I say diversity
of experience and I thinkdiversity of age, right? Like generations.
(22:29):
Like, yes, I loved the internsand the new college graduates, but
I also loved my 30 yearveterans who had been there, done
that, seen it, all right?Like, had weathered every storm.
We talked about the rollercoaster. Had weathered every storm.
And I loved putting them onteams together and making them figure
out how to work together tosee what would come out of the stew.
(22:52):
I mean, that's really what itwas about.
Yeah. No, it's not easy.
It's not easy.
No, I don't think it is. Solet me ask you, so you, you, you
started, you were at the Gap,right? And department stores and
then Gap. Okay, so what, whatdo you think was the quintessential
(23:17):
point that helped you rise upto where you be you a hundred %?
No, I 100% know the tippingpoint. And I think it's a really
important lesson. And I again,when I'm with students, I tell them
this. So when I was hired bythe Gap, I was hired as a district
(23:38):
manager, which meant I ranstores. I was originally hired in
Detroit and then I got movedto Chicago. So I had like, at any
time between 10 to 12 stores,I was in the field organization.
Like we were running storesand I was very good at running stores.
I was very neat, clean, wellmerchandised, motivated teams. We
(24:00):
hit our numbers and I was on afield career path, which meant I
was going to be a districtmanager and then a regional manager,
and then I wanted to be thevice president of stores. That was
the career path I was on. AndI can tell you 100% the tipping point.
I was running stores inChicago. Mickey Drexler, who was
the CEO of Gap, brought fourof his executives from Gap headquarters
(24:24):
in San Francisco to visitstores in Chicago. And we were on
a cost cutting time, so we didnot rent cars with drivers. That
meant we had to drivedifferent people around between the
stores. So you're very nervousbecause you're like, first off, you're
driving and you don't want toget in an accident, but you're basically
being interviewed the wholetime you're in the car. Right. I
(24:46):
got the pleasure of drivingMickey between a couple of different
stores and one of his otherexecutive vice presidents. And about
a week after that visit, myboss called me and said, hey, San
Francisco thinks you're amerchant. And I said, what? Like
what, What's a merchant? Ididn't even know what a merchant
was. And she said that, yeah,the people that do the product in
(25:08):
the stores, they think you'dbe a really interesting merchant.
And they're starting thistraining program where they're going
to train merchants. They wantpeople from the field to train merchants.
She said, now I'm going to behonest with you. It's, it's going
to be a lateral, almostbackward move because you're going
from being a district managerto being a merchant trainee. But
(25:29):
I want you to. I think youshould go out to San Francisco and
interview for this and seewhat you think. They want you to
fly out, spend a week, go tosome meetings and see what you think.
And I was like, all right. Andso I went out and by the third meeting
of the first day, I was like,oh, I'm a merchant. I didn't even
know I was a merchant. The waythat I looked at the business was
(25:52):
from the only the peoplestandpoint, but the product standpoint.
And by the end of the week andall the interviews and meeting the
people I met, it's. I wantedto do it. And so I made a calculated
move, but a risky move. I lefta career path that I was thriving
in and moved into becoming atrainee overnight. Like, literally
(26:15):
a startee. Like, I mean, I wasbasically in a neophyte. And those
first six months, I had somuch self doubt and insecurity because
I was like, what did you do?Because I would be in meetings and
I wouldn't know what they weretalking about, and I would think,
oh, my God, you've completelyscrewed up your career. And. And
(26:37):
I. Those first six months, Iwas taking work home every night.
I was studying like I was in amaster's class. And then all of a
sudden, at like six months,the light kicked in and I became
a really, really successfulmerchant. And I did men's knits,
I did sweaters, I didactivewear. And when I became a president
(26:58):
of a retailer and a CEO of aretailer, I was a unique person because
I had both the field side and,and the product side, and not many
people had that. So eventhough I never sat there when I made
that decision to make thatmove and say, oh, this is going to
help me be a CEO someday, itdid help me become a CEO someday.
(27:19):
I mean, that changed my careerpath for sure, and the learning and
going around the world. Itraveled around the world making
Gap productions, SoutheastAsia, Africa, Italy. Yeah, it was.
It was unbelievable. I madedenim in the old days when we still
(27:40):
made denim in the UnitedStates. And oh my God, I love it.
I use Georgia denim that wasthen cut and sewn in Kentucky and
Washington, Texas. It was, itwas an incredible education, but
it was an on the job trainingprogram, basically.
You know, I love that. And I.And I. So I. You know, listeners,
as you hear that, this is ahuge game changer because there's
(28:01):
a couple things. It's likegiving people an opportunity, you
know, sometimes, you know,somebody, you know, and I Know that
not everybody can get in frontof the CEOs.
Totally.
You want to know whateverybody can. If you want to. I
am sure if you want to theCEOs like, oh, make the appointment
happen. You know, be that, be,be the nail that's driving and if
(28:28):
you want that meeting, make ithappen. But, but really the key is,
is, is is looking at thepeople that are in your tribe and
helping them pull out the bestin them.
Yeah, they saw a spark in methat I didn't know existed. And,
(28:49):
and because people invested inme. I think that's why I'm so invested
in mentoring and training andleadership development. Because I,
I want to help people findtheir true calling, their true passion.
And I, people invested in me.I've been very lucky. I write about
(29:09):
it in the book. I had someincredible bosses and mentors along
the way and I then I had somebad ones. But I learned from all
of them and right. I mean I'mstill, I'm still in touch with all
of them today. I mean some ofthem aren't living anymore, but anybody
that's living, I'm in touchwith those people. Yeah, I'm of a
(29:31):
certain age now whereunfortunately some of your bosses
at best on. But I mean even,even my last, my last quote, corporate
box boss Stacy Snyder at Fox,like I learned so much from her and
I spent three years at Fox and18 months of that was when we were
being acquired by Disney. Likethat was a high stress time when
(29:54):
you're being bought by acompetitor basically. And her leadership
and style and grace underpressure and compassion for how she
led us during that transitionmade me be a better leader for my
people during that transitionfor sure. Because I would be like,
(30:15):
oh, Stacy's incredible atthis. I gotta up my game. Like I,
I've got to get better atthis. And you know, anybody who's
been through a merger andacquisition, when you're the little
fish being eaten by the bigfish, it's a really, really hard.
Yes, it's a really hard role.It's, you know, it's really demoralizing
(30:38):
and you're basically justtrying to hold onto a team and you
keep smiling and saying it'sbusiness as usual and it's business
as usual when you know that'slike a crock. It's not business as
usual and everybody'spanicking about what their job is
and do they have a future andit's so hard. Like that was probably
my hardest managementchallenge ever was managing those
(30:58):
18 months. But because I wasbeing managed well, I think I did
it okay.
Right. It helps you do it.Yeah, it's. Yeah, right. Because
when you see it, you can, youcan model it too. Right? It's a great,
It's a great.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, Yeah, Ijust had to be accessible at all
times. That's the way she was.
(31:20):
Yeah. So, you know, Jim, Icould talk to you for hours. You
know, if there's one keylesson. We've shared quite a bit.
You know, we talked about, youknow, obviously, you know, mission
centered leadership, but you,we also, and I think this is the
part that, that I think isreally important. We also. You haven't,
(31:40):
we've touched on it, buthaven't touched on it. A lot of the
companies that you've beenwith, there's been a creative element
to it. And we talked about thebeforehand before the show started,
storytelling. And I thinkstorytelling in business is really
important. So can you shareyour insights on, on storytelling
(32:01):
and the impact it can make?
Oh my gosh. I mean, I, I'm astoryteller. Yeah, no, I know. I
am a storyteller. That's whyI'm like, I gotta do the edited version.
But to me, yeah. When I lookback at my, my career, every company
I worked at had authentic. Ithad an authentic stories or authentic
(32:22):
stories at its core. And Ialways felt that it was easier to
market, it was easier tocreate product, it was easier to
create training programs whenyou were coming from a place of an
authentic story where youweren't having to make anything up.
I just think that storytellingis tale as old as time. It's been
(32:45):
around for the millenniums andpeople learn, I think more effectively
through stories and throughstory sharing than they do in like
a classroom, especially foradult learners, where it's like one
way communication. Like, Ithink what I love about storytelling
is it's usually inherently twoway communication or group communication
(33:07):
and people are sharing storiesand it's like a different way of
communication than going tolike a one way training for four
hours where someone's justreading you a PowerPoint and you're
trying to learn as you go. Ithink, I think storytelling influences
the product you're working onthe marketing programs, you're working
(33:28):
on the communication, thetraining programs, all of it. I mean,
I think it's, it's at the coreof everything. And I, I don't think
I could work for a brand or acompany that didn't have an authentic
story at its core. Even likethe authentic story of Gap, which
was founded by the Fisherfamily in 1969. Named after the generation
(33:49):
gap like that literallyfounded in Haight Ashbury in San
Francisco. That was at thecore of our DNA. Would definitely
was at the core of our DNA.
I think it's such a keyimportant message because it also
ties back to that vision andmission of a company of where it
(34:12):
is and knowing that storyabout the, about the why we want
it to be and what we are, weneed to incorporate. So for sure.
So I could talk to you for hours.
Thank you.
There's so much great wisdom.You how can people can. How can our
listeners connect with you,learn more, even more about you?
(34:34):
You know, maybe jump into someof your coaching, get some of your
books.
Yes. Yeah, I mean that. Well,my website is super easy. It's Hi,
hi Jim fielding.com like hiJim fielding.com I'm Jim Fielding
on LinkedIn and it is me. It'snot a bot answering you. People DM
me all the time. My book AllPride, no Ego is available anywhere
(34:56):
books are sold. Amazon, anylocal bookstores. Instagram is hi
Jim Fielding. It's I'm reallytransparent. I post every day on
LinkedIn. I'm telling storiesall the time on LinkedIn, the website.
I'm constantly updating andthen yeah, I mean, you know, coaching
(35:17):
services. I do public speakingall over the country. I've been around
the world now doing publicspeaking. I love being in community.
I love being with groups ofpeople. I'm a people person so. And
I love meeting new peoplethrough LinkedIn. It's really easy.
Yeah, no, that's reallyfantastic. So listeners, please do
(35:41):
me a favor, reach out to Jim.I will put links in the show notes
so you can reach him, connectwith him but please go to LinkedIn,
go to his website, go tofollow him on Instagram. You know
I will be and if you havegotten great value out of this podcast
episode which I am sure youhave because we've had some amazing
(36:02):
game changing insights ofclicking the altogether amazing subscribe
button. Do me one other favorand please share this episode with
your friends, your colleaguesand other people who you think could
be an amazing leader or canget value out of this. And remember
we're each and every one of usis the CEO of our own lives. So we
(36:23):
lead ourselves so and that youknow. I am Jacqueline Stranger, host
of Unstoppable LeadershipSpotlight podcast. Thank you for
listening and thank you Jimfor being an amazing guest.
Thank you for having me.
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