Be authentic & trust your brand of creativity – with Jillian Speece - Untethered with Jen Liss

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi and welcome to Untethered with Jen Liss, the
podcast that's here to help youbreak free, be you and unleash
your inner brilliance.
I'm your host, jen, and in thisepisode we're going to talk
about the magic of consistencyand how to meet each day with
playfulness.
Let's dive in.
Hey there, unicorn, it's Jen.

(00:31):
Welcome back to the podcast.
In today's episode, we've got abright, sparkling, magical
light Jillian Speece.
Jillian Speece currently has atthe time of this recording when
she and I spoke.
Her film State of the Unity isan award-winning, uplifting

(00:54):
documentary that she and herhusband created together and it
actually had a little Oscar run.
It is currently.
You can watch it in all theplaces she and I talk about this
, but you can watch it on Amazon, you can watch it on Apple.
It actually got bigdistribution.
It was super, super exciting.
I befriended her shortly beforeall of that happened and have
gotten to watch this thing thatshe and her husband have poured

(01:14):
their hearts and souls into foreight years, like take off.
It was the coolest, coolestthing and I want this for every
creator in the world to get.
This moment that she is livingright now, that we're capturing
her in, and in this moment Iwanted to capture her, to come
onto the podcast and share whatit is that she has learned, and
share from this beautiful energyof where she's at right now to

(01:35):
look back and see all of thosemoments that were so challenging
and so hard and everything thatgot her here to today, and
share that bit of knowledge andmagic with you.
So she and her husband also arein a band together called the
Bergamot.
It's an indie folk rock.
She describes it as like acombo of many things, but it's

(01:56):
just really beautiful music thatyou can check out on Spotify or
all the places if you want tolisten in.
But they tour together and sothey play music.
She's also the founder of WildWondrous Women and she hosts
retreats, and so we talk alittle bit about that as well.
So she's got her hands and lotsof pots, but they're all

(02:17):
centered around her unique magicthat she brings to the world
and her heart, which wasexpanded by creating this
documentary.
I cannot wait for you to meettoday's guest.
Welcome to the podcast, jillianSpies.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Hey, Jen, it's so good to be on your podcast.
I'm super excited for theconversation we're about to have
about magic and wonder.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
All the magic and all the wonder.
We are vibing in the same, likeif we were strings on a guitar.
We would be in the same chord,except yours would sound a lot
prettier than mine, because Ican't make music magic.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
We can work on that.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Jillian, I'm so excited for you to come on the
podcast and share your journeyto where you are right now,
because you feel like actualmagic to me.
There's people that you meet inthe world and from the moment I
had a conversation with you, Iwas like there's something about
that person.
And I knew nothing about you, Ididn't know that you're in a
band, I didn't know all of thesethings, but it was just from

(03:16):
the very moment I was likethere's a little, a little, some
sparkle happening here withthis person.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Thank you so much.
I felt the same way about youtoo.
So I was like, oh my gosh, Ilove this girl.
Who is she?
And then I was like, wait, shehas a podcast.
Of course she does, and it's ona really cool topic.
I love it Untethered.
It's great.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Well, we were just talking about some we're going
to get to your retreats thatyou're doing because it like
perfectly, perfectly untethered.
But I really want to know haveyou always felt this way?
Were you from the time that youwere a child?
You were just like magic maker.
I've always been into this.
This has always been my thing.
Has that been with you frombirth until now and you've

(03:56):
always been following it?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Oh, wow, that's a great question.
No one has ever asked me that.
I love that, so it's funny thatyou call me a magic maker.
I feel like I am just showingup in my authentic voice.
And when I was a little kid, Iwould go out into my backyard by
myself, always barefoot.
I would go sit under this bigoak tree and I would just sing.

(04:22):
I would literally just make upsongs for hours.
I had a huge imagination, so Iwould just write songs.
My sister would once in a whilecome back and we'd make mud
tacos together and we'd create alittle restaurant in the back
out of mud.
I just always was kind ofliving in my own world and I was

(04:44):
totally okay with that.
And I feel like the first time Irealized it was like, oh wow,
like not everybody does this allthe time or is very imaginative
, was kind of when I startedgetting into traditional school
and you know I grew up in theMidwest, so I'm from Indiana
originally and my parents sentmy sister and I to Catholic

(05:04):
school.
So it was a little bit morerigid and I kind of I felt like
even when I was going intoschool I was like, oh goodness,
like I need to kind of tone itback a little bit, cause like
either I was in classes and thenI'm drawing on all my papers or
kind of talking to the personnext to me.
And I probably shouldn't havebeen, because I'm ADD as well.

(05:26):
But, like I just realized whenI got into school, I did not
really fit in to this mold andso I think I was kind of dancing
in between going to school andtrying to figure out where I fit
in and then going back homeinto the safe world that I had
kind of created in my bedroom,where it was very creative and I
was drawing and I was singingand I was writing, and every day

(05:48):
I looked forward to going homebecause I would turn on my
little cassette tape and thefirst thing I ever bought was
the Beatles anthology forcassette anthology, and I'd get
home and I would turn that on.
I would just sing and learn andmemorize these songs, and that
was my safe, happy space, youknow.
But I think somewhere along theway it was more painful for me

(06:13):
to just kind of fit in than tobe who I am authentically, and
that that there was a bud thatneeded to bloom and I in the, in
the rare chance where I hadteachers kind of encouraging me
to step out like they.
There were teachers who saw mein class, like I had a really
cool music teacher and he waslike Jillian, I really want you

(06:36):
to sing a solo in this big.
It was like the huge school youknow whenever assembly.
And I was like no, you have thewrong person.
I just like looked at him.
I was like no, I'm not doingthat.
I was terrified.
I love doing it, but just stepout in front of everyone was
terrifying.
And he kept asking and and Ikept being like no.
And then finally I went home Idon't maybe after a few weeks of

(06:57):
him asking me saying no, he waslike are you sure?
He's like I really think you'dbe great at this.
I don't really want to givethis solo away to someone else.
I was like dang it.
So I was probably like 10.
I went home.
I told my parents.
I was like so my teacher keepsasking me to do this solo and I
keep saying no.
And they're like what, you haveto do it.
And I'm like oh my gosh, thisis so scary.

(07:19):
And they're like we know it'sscary, but you have a beautiful
voice and I didn't really thinkI had that great of a voice.
I just love singing.
They're like no, you really,how about we help you, how about
we, like you know, work withyou?
And I was like okay, so I didit and my first ever solo was
the Beatles yesterday, which isa song I knew because I sang it

(07:41):
every day when I came home.
But that was like the firsttime I really felt untethered,
like I was going away from whatwas comfortable, I was moving
into a space where it felt wildand it was very nerve wracking.
But that was when I really feltlike in my life I started that
bud just started to slowly comeopen.

(08:02):
Was that first ever assemblysoul of the Beatles yesterday?

Speaker 1 (08:06):
That's so fascinating .
I love that you got to singthis song that you loved so much
and you'd been singing at homeand really in that vibe for
yourself.
But you said, I didn't reallythink I was that good at it, but
I loved doing it.
And it's been so interesting asI reflect and as I hear from
other people and other storiesand I reflect on my own story.

(08:27):
So it's so often that thethings that we're really good at
other people are clearly seeingin us and we're not always
clearly seeing it in ourselves.
Like what is that?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yes, it's so interesting because, wow, okay.
So from that day, from being 10, I'm 35 now and I've you know,
I've fully, I've, I've justabout fully embraced all the
aspects of who I am.
I feel like it's a continuallearning process, right, like
there's always deeper.

(08:57):
I can always dive deeper, solike I really consider myself a
deep diver in life.
So when you start going on apath where you're becoming
untethered from what everybody'stelling you should be doing or
you need to be living the way,you need to look this way, you
need to hang out with thesepeople, you need to drive this
car, live in this house, makethis amount of money, and you're
locked into a grid.
When you step outside of thatand say you know what, the thing

(09:21):
that makes me not only so happy, or the things that make me
shine when I do those things,they actually encourage other
people to shine.
When you step away and youstart living in that light, your
life changes and you can nevergo back.
And I know that sounds maybescary to some people who are
thinking of maybe stepping awayfrom something they've been

(09:43):
doing to live out their passion,and it is scary.
But when you jump outside ofthe lines and you start living
life on brand.
That's where the magic is at.
That's where, when you say, oh,jillian, you seem like someone
who's had magic since you werelittle.
The magic is inside of all of us.
It's when you start living inalignment.

(10:05):
It's when you start showing upnot only for who the divine
created you to be, but theperson that you all fit into.
That's where the magic lies.
It's kind of in thisuncomfortable oh my gosh, am I
actually going to do this?
Am I going to go on thismassive stage in front of 15,000
people and I'm going to sing anoriginal song?

(10:26):
Not only does that terrify me,but when I'm doing it, I feel
more at home than any otherplace on the planet.
So it's this constant dance inbetween your fears telling you
no, don't do this, don't gothere, don't show up.
And then who you're meant to beand this love that you want to
share with the world.
And then they're constantlydancing with each other and

(10:50):
pushing.
You know you're pushing yourauthentic voice over the edge,
over the fears, and that's wherethe magic happens.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Truly, and you've gotten to live that.
So take us back to you knowafter that, after that 10 year
old, how did you get to whereyou are today and what what has?
And we don't have to go throughlike step by step, everything,
but what were some of the, thepowerful moments that you can
remember that transformed intoyou, know you traveling all over

(11:21):
the world and having adocumentary and all of the
things that you have now?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh my gosh, I love it so okay.
So obviously that was like thefirst moment.
You know my 10 year old selfsinging that solo and I remember
the feeling I had after I didthat.
That feeling carried on forweeks Like oh my gosh, that was
so much fun.
When I pulled it off I was likethat was a blast.
Hmm, wonder if I could do thatagain.
And I often say that it startswith these little, tiny micro

(11:50):
steps.
So the first step you heard metalk about is I knew I loved to
sing and I bought the littleanthology set from the Beatles.
That was a very small.
It was like, you know, I'd gohome and I'd sing with those.
That's kind of like manifestingone-on-one right.
I love the Beatles.
I started listening to thesongs.
I go to school.
The teacher hears me singingwith the choir, identifies my

(12:13):
voice and is like oh hey, youknow it's funny, I'm programming
the Beatles Maybe I talkedabout it before and he's like I
really want you to do the solo.
And I'm like, no, I'm terrified.
Then he kept asking.
He was persistent.
Then I showed up.
I said okay, finally I did itand I loved it.
And so it's the steps of how Igot here.
It's all of that over and over.

(12:35):
So they're tiny little microsteps of putting yourself out
there saying, man, you know whatwould be really cool.
It'd be really cool to tour theworld.
It'd be really cool to do ashow a sold out show in Paris.
It'd be really cool one day tomake a documentary.
It's like the first time I everthought of making a documentary
.
I was in college.

(12:56):
I watched a documentary on HBOcalled Crazy, sexy Cancer with
Chris Carr.
I remember noting in my head ohmy gosh, this is really cool.
I'd be so interesting one dayto make a documentary.
And then, all these years later, not only did we make a
documentary, we got adistribution deal, we became
eligible on the Oscars list.

(13:19):
That's crazy.
How is this possible?
But it starts with a teeny,tiny little seed.
A mustard tree, which is one ofthe biggest trees and one of
the strongest trees, starts withliterally the smallest seed.
That's almost the size of likefour pieces of sand.
That's how dreams come true.
It starts with a seed and youhave to keep taking steps.

(13:40):
So I would say the next part ofmy career or my life, I was
unfolding this dream, so I madeit through grade school I was
singing, where I loved it.
I started singing a lot more inchurch and just putting myself
out there was terrifying.
Like this is not.
It's not easy stuff.
It wasn't like oh, oh, wow, Ijust showed up and I just

(14:00):
started singing and everythingwas great.
No, every time I showed up Iwould literally shake with like
a piece of paper with the lyricson it and sing it.
When I was little, that's how Istarted and I would show up and
I showed up 10 times, I showedup 50 times, I showed up a
hundred times.
I got to high school.
In high school it was waybigger than you know.

(14:24):
I think we had almost, like itwas like 850, almost a thousand
students in the body, thestudent body, which for us in
Indiana that was.
You know, that's a big school.
Like that's kind of you know Imean, that's a very big audience
.
Like it's pretty solid, right.
And I remember.
So it's another Catholic highschool and I remember being a
freshman and going into thefirst assembly for, like, it's

(14:47):
always Catholic mass, right,they need music for Catholic
mass.
And I remember being like, ohmy gosh, like there are a lot of
people in here and they hadsingers and whatever.
And I thought, man, like Iwould love to sing in front of
it.
I would love to sing like notonly worship the divine, but
like I would just love to showup and like share the gifts that
I have.
And I was like this is scary,this is really scary.

(15:10):
Like high school, 14 years old,like, okay, here we go, like
it's a different level with youryou know, like grade school
felt like okay, this is scary,but like whatever, like we're
kind of young, like who's goingto remember?
High school is like oh yeah,like you mess up in high school,
like they're they will, theycan nickname you something and
you will never live that downuntil you graduate, right.

(15:32):
So, like I went to a couple ofmasses and I remember thinking,
all right, jillian, like justone of these days you got to go
talk to the the he was like themusic director after one of the
masses after this I don't knowhow many times I kept thinking
about this, maybe it was like 10times in I literally had a
piece of paper with Amy Grantsong El Shaddai, which is so

(15:56):
funny because it's like all in,it's mostly in Hebrew, with like
it's like El Shaddai, elShaddai and it's like this kind
of Hebrew.
It was like the weirdest song Icould have brought in like a
Catholic world, but anyway, themeaning is all good.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
So religious.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, it's great.
I was like, can we?
So I literally went up to thedirector and I was like, oh my
gosh, I can't believe I'm doingthis.
I felt sick, like.
I felt like, oh my gosh, I'mgoing to ask to say hey, you
know, I told I went up to him sonervous and I was like, hey, um
, my name is Jillian and I sing.
I have this song that I like tosay sometimes like so awkward.

(16:34):
And he was like, yes, and I waslike, so I was like you know,
maybe one day, like I couldmaybe join the choir or
something.
I wasn't thinking like soul, Iwas thinking even just joining
the choir.
And he said, okay, well, do youhave the song on you?
Do you know what it is?
And I said, yeah, I had thislittle piece of paper with the
notes.
And he said, well, why don'tyou just sing it right now?
I'll just play it.
And I was like whoa, I was likeright now.

(16:56):
And he's like, oh my God, okay,I was like like right now, I
mean I can come back.
I could delay this gratification, I can come back tomorrow.
And he's like no, he's like,and I said okay, so he starts
playing it.
I'm like oh my God.
And I think I honestly think,if I remember this correctly, he
started it and I didn't evenjump in.

(17:18):
I should have jumped in rightwhen he hit those opening notes
and I was so nervous I couldn'teven.
And he's like okay, let's tryit again.
He's like, and he looked at meand he's like and now and so
then I started singing and then,once I started singing even
though I was nervous, I'll getout I just kept singing, kept
singing.
And then, once I got to themiddle, then I started becoming
more confident and all thisstuff.
But the higher notes I stillwas like freaking out on.

(17:39):
And I sang it and he looked atme and he was like how about you
sing this next week as a soloin front of everyone at mass?
And I was like.
I was like that escalatedquickly.
I was like, yeah, that reallyescalated.
I was like, yeah, okay, let'sdo it.
I was like what have I done?

(18:00):
So I get to the next week.
I'm practicing every day, I'mtrying to really beef up my
confidence.
I like I was not prepared.
Like I felt not prepared forthis moment, like even though
I'd saying it like grade school,this was like, oh my gosh, so
the big times, this was the baitfor me at this point.
This is the big leagues.
And I, I got to Tuesday, I Iliterally was like, before I had

(18:27):
to sing it, I went to thebathroom like am I going to
throw up from nerves?
This has never happened to mebefore.
I didn't throw up, but that'show nervous I was, got into the
mass, had my little piece ofpaper with my lyric, just in
case, even though I freakingknew the song.
Now I got in and I went up andI, like my hand, I had the paper
and it was just shaking, likepeople in the front row could

(18:50):
see like I was nervous and I gotthrough the song and it sounded
great, like I made it throughall the parts, like the tricky
parts, and the entire assemblystood up and applauded during
mass, which is like notacceptable not a, thing, I'm
also Catholic, okay this is nota thing.

(19:10):
And I was like I literally hadchills.
I was like, and then I was like, oh my gosh, and like, scurried
off to sit down and it was likeI literally stepped out of the
mass and and everybody wascalling me El Shaddai girl.
They were calling me oh my gosh, el Shaddai girl.

(19:30):
El Shaddai, oh wait you sangthat song.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I was totally thinking you singing Eagle's
Wings or something like that.
No, you were singing your song.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
No, no, I sang yes, I sang that Amy Grant El Shaddai
Hebrew like throwing down, likemarrying, like the Jewish
culture with the Catholics.
It was like it was sounconventional.
Okay, look back, I'm like thisis on brand for who I am.
But at the time I was like ohmy gosh, this is happening.
So, for the rest of my highschool and to this day, if I go

(19:58):
back to my hometown and I runinto somebody at the store,
they're like oh El Shaddai girl,or they're like Jillian oh El
Shaddai.
That song changed.
What are you talking about?
But that was like one of the keymoments and and I can break
this down for anyone who istrying to like, let's say,
somebody right now works at abank and they they went to
school for that.

(20:18):
They enjoy working in a bank andthey're good at what they do,
but their real passion is makingpottery on the wheel and they
love it.
They look when they're on thewheel, they they feel like time
stands still, like you're in themoment and they're free.
They're like oh my gosh,expansive, creating.
And when they finish thosepieces the multiple stages of
working on the wheel they havethese beautiful pieces and maybe

(20:40):
they give away to friends asgifts and friends are like, oh
my gosh, I would buy a set ofthis.
Maybe they're at that part oftheir life.
I would say that the biggeststeps for that person is you
just have to look at your lifein a way where you're like time
management right.
First off, you have to knowwhat you love and you have to
know that this, this right here,can get in the way of what you

(21:04):
love, right?

Speaker 1 (21:05):
So even for anyone just listening.
Yeah, it's a cell phone.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
But, like there's all these choices we make, there
are little micro choices.
So if this person wants to be apotter, like maybe they want to
be a full-time potter, build abusiness, sell, start selling at
the farmer's market, then growit to something bigger, do
really well in Etsy, whatever.
Everything starts with microchoices.
It's all the way that we lookat ourselves, think about

(21:38):
ourselves and show up forourselves and show up for the
community.
So for me, I had to say wow.
When I sing, I feel most aliveand I see that that singing is
affecting people in a positiveway.
For this potter, whoever is inthis position where they want to
jump and do something different, it's little micro steps.
It's not happening all at once.
It took me years from gradeschool to the high school moment
to get to that point and thenfor years to get from the high
school moment to where I'm attoday.
But I show up consistently.

(21:59):
So it's about consistency.
The only thing that can reallybust you through into a new
realm of living your mostauthentic life is consistency,
and when we're on our phones orwhen we're distracted, it's very
difficult to be consistent.
So I would say the number onefirst step is one.
You have to find out whatlights you up, and that could

(22:20):
take a little while.
Some people don't know andthat's totally cool.
That's totally okay.
That's the fun part.
You start going.
Maybe you go ride a horse forthe first time, maybe you go try
and sing at a karaoke bar,maybe you do pottery, but
there's something inside of yoursoul that will nudge you in the
right direction.
So, number one you have to beokay with failing forward and

(22:45):
searching.
It's okay to search.
It's okay to give yourself timeand space to figure out.
You know what?
I've always kind of loved piano.
I'm going to go get a keyboard.
Or I'm going to go to GuitarCenter and just go over by the
keyboard and just kind of fiddlearound on it and maybe you find
one you like.
Maybe you're like, wow, Ireally love this.
Or you know I've always hadthis nudge to do watercolors.

(23:05):
Or you know I've always had anudge to start a podcast.
I don't know why, but it justkeeps coming back.
So you have to listen to those.
And then you got to hone it in.
So for me, when I was little, Iknew, when I was very little,
that I loved singing.
I knew it Whenever I did it, Ifelt so good, I had fun doing it
, it was connective, it justfelt enriching.

(23:27):
And maybe for you you know thatwhen you and you got to
sometimes go back, maybe whenyou were little, whenever you
would write or maybe you wrotepoems, but now you don't do that
anymore.
Something there's little nudges, especially when you're little,
it's very pure.
There's like not a lot of well,now there is more influence and
distractions.
But you know, back in like thenineties and early 2000s, it was

(23:50):
a little easier to figure itout.
But it's about creating thespace.
So create the space, go exploreand then, once you find that
thing right and it could be acouple of things I love to sing.
I also love to host retreats.
I love teaching.
I also love creating films.
I love filming.
I love the directorial process,I love putting things together,

(24:14):
I love transformation.
So I now know I have a fullscope of things that I really
love to do and that I've workedreally hard on that I'm very
good at now.
So it could start with one andkind of morph.
I know Marie Forleo often saysshe's like a serial entrepreneur
.
I am definitely vibing on that.
I feel that way too.
But yeah, I mean, I think forpeople it's finding the thing

(24:36):
that you really love, or atleast starting with one and
getting good at whatever.
That is the 10,000 hour theory.
I've been singing for well over10,000 hours now, but when I hit
that original 10,000 hours now,but when I hit that original
10,000 hour threshold, it feltreally good and I knew kind of
when that happened.

(24:57):
And you feel it, you, yousomething changes.
Like when I was on stage, like,instead of like being really
nervous or stuff, I'm like allright, let's go.
Like there's a confidence thatcomes with hitting that 10,000
hour level and people will knowthat.
So, like, if we're talkingabout this potter, when this
potter hits the wheel for 10,000hours, there will be things,

(25:21):
there'll be levels that areunlocked in the consistency of
showing up on that wheel.
And when you hit that 10,000hours or you know whatever
you're doing whether it's apodcast or singing or making
films you know that something'schanged in you and that's when
the magic is trailing in betweenthe consistency.

(25:42):
So that magic we're talkingabout it is when you show up
consistently, it is when youwork hard.
This stuff is not easy.
It's not like oh, we're justlike everything's so easy in my
life and everything's great.
No, it's freaking hard, but I'mtough and I have confidence in
my abilities because I show upin a way that is fierce.

(26:04):
Not only do I show up formyself, but I'm continually
showing up for other people, andthe magic is threaded in
between that consistency, andthat's why it really excites me.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
We can tell that you're excited about it and that
you're.
I think it's important to hearthat in somebody's voice,
because you're saying this froma place of having done the
10,000 hours.
And I think it can feel reallycumbersome when we're at the
very beginning stages to befaced with that and to be
getting there Like, well, I'm inthe exploration stage.

(26:35):
But something that you saidabout the exploration stage is
that that gets to be fun and Ithink we forget that and we'll
go into the exploration stageand we'll be like, well, I got
to figure it out, I got tofigure it out, I got to go
potter it and see how that feels.
And now I got to go try thisand I have to see how that feels
, and it's like we we start toput tethers just on on our fun

(26:57):
and then it's, it stops us fromeven finding the thing that we
want to invest our 10,000 hoursinto.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, oh, totally, and I think a lot of what I do and
the longevity of what I havedone and what I continue to do,
is that I meet each day andmoment with playfulness.
So I often say, like, as amusician, as a creative, I don't
go when I'm singing or let'ssay I'm practicing or I'm

(27:27):
playing the guitar, I'm playingthe guitar, I'm not like, oh, I
have to do this, or whatever I'm, actually it's playful.
Life should have play involvedin it at any age, like when
we're kids.
We play, you know, we play hard, we go on the, you know, the

(27:48):
monkey bars and we're screamingand we're laughing and we're
chasing our friends and we play,we invent games, we have fun
together.
We have lost, as adults, thislevel of play and I honestly
think and there's many reasonsfor that, for this what I'm
about to say but because we'velost the sense of wonder,
because we've lost the sense ofplay, because everything's so
much pressure, we are seeingastronomical levels of

(28:12):
depression and unhappiness andunfulfillment across our country
that we've never seen before.
There's so much pressure toconfine yourself to looking a
certain way, to sounding acertain way.
We're on social media, we're onTikTok, we're on Instagram and

(28:33):
comparing, comparison is thethief of joy.
So when you're playing, whenyou're literally in a flow state
of play, you're not comparingand we need to give ourselves
the permission to play.
And that's this energy, of thisenergy we're talking about with
this first step of findingyourself and what you just said.

(28:54):
It's like when we give ourselvespermission to play, we have to
look at it like playing, notlike more pressure, not oh, I
got to add that, oh, I got to goto that you know one class to
see if that's my thing.
Like no, it should be fun, likefollow the things that are fun.
And when you're having fun,it's infectious and you not only
by you just showing up, youinspire other people to have fun

(29:23):
and to enjoy it.
And in this you find differentlevels of happiness that
continue to unfold in your lifeand it's really beautiful how
that works to unfold in yourlife and it's.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
it's really beautiful how that works.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Follow the fun.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes, totally, that's awesome advice.
So you you mentioned this, whatyou're feeling and seeing
across the U?
S and you have indeed beenacross the U?
S quite literally for yourdocumentary that you created.
We can just take a segue overto that and what inspired you to
create State of the Unity, whatgot you inspired for it and

(29:57):
what did you see along the way?
What did you learn?

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, so this is one of my favorite things to talk
about, right?
So in 2015, my husband,nathaniel, and I, we were
inspired from the death of hisgrandfather who passed away.
We were inspired by his legacy.
So six months before, we losthis grandmother, and then we

(30:24):
lost his grandfather, who diedof a broken heart and died of a
very minor health issue, but hewas like I'm so ready to go and
be with Joan they were coming ontheir 65th wedding anniversary
and he's like I can't do itwithout her here.
So the legacy that they led wasreally beautiful.
They created a safe space intheir home for anyone to come in

(30:46):
or out at any time and theyloved people where they were at
this generation that is nowalmost completely lost, this
beautiful you know ourgrandparents generation.
They were warriors.
You know they fought not onlyfor our country, but they also
fought for people.

(31:07):
Like they saw thingsdifferently.
They loved people differently.
His grandfather was aRepublican, his grandmother was
a Democrat and they justembraced people wherever they're
at.
They loved each other.
They loved all of us.
We loved them and they createdthis space of unity at the
kitchen table and it wasbeautiful, and so when he passed
away.
We were sitting in our at thatpoint, just our Volvo station

(31:29):
wagon and it was like a 2002.
So it had like a lot of.
It had 264,000 miles on it andwe had toured for the beginning
portion of our lives, like from2010, for the first five years
of our musical life, we hadtoured out of this car.
We're very familiar with it, itwas like our fave and we were
sitting the night that he passedaway in the car after a dinner,

(31:53):
a family dinner and my husbandput his hands on the steering
wheel and it was like in thismoment the only way I can
explain it was like the divinecame into the car and struck my
husband and us with this vision.
So this is 2015, october 17,2015.
And the vision was we weresupposed to go out and bring

(32:16):
people together and my husbandhad this really clear vision.
First he tells me this vision,I had chills all over my body,
on my head.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
I had chills from head to toe.
You even just saying this, Ihad chills everywhere.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
And I looked at him and I was like, yeah, and he's
like I don't know what this isgoing to mean for our lives.
I don't know what this is goingto look like.
I don't even know the timelinefor this.
And I said, well, what are wedoing?
And he's like the vision is weneed to go out into America and
we need to bring people together.
We didn't even know the wordwas unity at that time and so

(32:49):
we're brainstorming I havechills right now telling this
again, but we're brainstorming.
What could that look like?
And we're like, well, we couldplay music.
Music brings people together.
We could invite people to.
This was just like a funny thisactually okay.
So on this 50 state tour that weended up doing, we invited
people to sign their message ofunity on the outside and inside

(33:10):
of this station wagon that theidea came from.
And this particular thing, thisidea of signing the car,
actually came out of a joke thatwas said three months before
this.
So we were on tour in Americaand somebody said, oh, can you
sign my vinyl that I just boughtfrom you?

(33:31):
And my husband looked at themand said, yeah, I'll sign your
vinyl if you like.
Sign our car as like a totaljoke, like something that was
like what?
Like we were like why did yousay that so silly and literally
like three months.
That was the seed for like.
When we're in the carbrainstorming in this moment,
we're like wait, what if we hadpeople sign their message of
peace and unity on our stationwagon?

(33:51):
And we're like, yeah, becauseearlier that week we were
driving the station wagon fromBrooklyn, new York, where we
were living at the time, backhome to South Bend, indiana, and
a guy called us on the phonebecause he had heard that maybe
we were thinking of selling theVolvo because it had almost, I

(34:13):
mean, 264,000 miles isunbelievable and it was breaking
here and there.
So we were like, oh, should wesell this and get something new?
Maybe I don't know.
And he was like yeah, I'll giveyou like $400 for this car and
I'm going to part it.
I'm just going to sell theparts that are good.
And this is how this idea came.
So we're in the car, thelightning struck and the we're

(34:36):
like wait, we could like playmusic and bring people together
and then invite people to signtheir message of unity on our
car.
And then it was like um, yeah,let's do it.
We're like when and my husband,he looked at me and he was like
I think we need to like like gonow, like we need to like
actually we'll have like a monthand then we need to go as soon

(34:57):
as possible.
Like, once 2016 hits, we needto go, and it was like okay.
So that is how, the beginning,that the why was we felt like
America in 2015 was coming apart.
We felt like it was thebeginning season of polarization
and we could see that happeningbecause we were hearing it on
the road in early 2015.

(35:18):
Because you were traveling andplaying around yes, all over
America, and we were like, huh,something's off.
I don't know what it is, butpeople seem upset, they seem a
bit unwell mentally, starting tobe very angry.
We were hearing things.
When you're traveling, you hearthings that aren't being

(35:40):
broadcast on the news, that noone's really talking about.
We're talking to people on theground, people working.
We thought, hmm, interesting.
Then we didn't even know, wehad no clue.
When we got in the car andstarted the tour in Brooklyn,
new York, on January 2nd 2016,we were like we had no clue what
we were headed into with thepolitical year.

(36:01):
We just thought, okay, well,yeah, like, let's see what
happens.
And it ended up being one of thecraziest political years on
record in our country.
And we were filming every daylike terabytes of footage and it
took us eight years to make thefilm because we had to go

(36:22):
through so much footage and wehad to fail forward.
So we had seven versions of thefilm.
We landed on the seventhversion of the film it took us
eight years to make.
We had six failed versions andthey weren't.
We call them failed because wedished.
You know, we would gut them.
We get to a point where we'relike, okay, this is kind of a
film or these parts are good,but no, it's not right.

(36:45):
And we kept doing that until wegot it right.
And we got it right and we got,we ended up getting it right,
which is amazing, and we didn'teven know we got it right until
we ended up 2022.
So obviously, the pandemichappened.
We worked our butts off on thisfilm like pretty much every day
through 2020, 2021, 2022.

(37:08):
We brought on two differentteams.
One team was in Cleveland, whowe are eternally grateful Garage
Creative.
They helped get all of thosebeautiful shots where we're
sitting down doing theinterviews.
They also helped do some shots,some B-roll shots and things
with the professors, which isreally helpful, and then we took
the project from there and webrought it to LA.

(37:29):
So it was like, really, this,this true unity that happened
across the country.
Right, we were working withdifferent people across the
political board who votedifferently.
We worked with different peoplewho, you know, yeah, just
really see the world differently, and we kept it together for
this many years with differentteams and we were learning how

(37:49):
to become filmmakers.
So we were learning byliterally watching great
documentaries and making notes.
How did they tell that story.
So we were teaching ourselveshow to do this.
We didn't go to college to dothis and that's why it took so
long.
Plus funding, we self-funded itand then also got some big
patrons in right at the end,thank God, or it wouldn't be out

(38:12):
today without them.
So I'm eternally grateful forour patrons who helped and for
the support of the earlysupporters in 2015 who helped us
raise money to buy gear onkickstarter.
So there's a lot of peopleinvolved different levels but I
think that the message of unityin a heavily divided and growing

(38:32):
more divided and morepolarizing world is more needed
now than ever, because if wedon't figure out ways to talk to
people who are different thanus, instead of just hating them,
which is very easy to do, it'sway easier to say, ooh, they
vote that way or they like thisgroup, I just hate them.
It's so easy to do that Walkaway.

(38:53):
It's very, very difficult tosay, Ooh, okay, so we have some
differences, but let's talk.
That's way more difficult to dothat than to just judge someone
and walk away.
And before I did the unitycollective I would.
You know, I consider myself tobe a very nice person, but even
people who are very different oreven politically vote different

(39:15):
.
It was, I would honestly,looking back, I will admit that
I would just I'd be pleasant,but I wouldn't really hang out
and talk for too long.
Now this has changed my life.
I will go into difficult spaces.
I will love people.
I love people better nowbecause of this tour, because of
this film, and I meet peoplewhere they're at, with a heart

(39:37):
of empathy instead of judgingthem and walking away.
And that's probably the thingthat makes me feel the most
proud of this project is the waythat it's transformed my heart
and the way I love peopledifferently now.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
It's really beautiful .
There's a quote in thedocumentary I think it was one
of the professors pretty earlyon where he says something like
the path forward is that we canmeet within the disagreement.
I'm totally not quoting himexactly, but it seems similar to
what you're saying here.
It's like opening our heartsenough, and that takes work.
It's not easy.

(40:09):
It's not easy.
It's so much easier to just belike you suck.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, it is.
I disagree.
I think you're talking aboutProfessor Dr David Anderson
Hooker.
He had a bow tie on yeah, andhe said he said it's not a
shared narrative of a future,but rather a narrative of a
shared future moving forward.
Rather a narrative of a sharedfuture moving forward where we

(40:34):
create space at the table foreveryone to peacefully come and
share their ideals and learnways to talk to people in a
peaceful way, where weunderstand where people are
coming from, we understand theirfears and differences and move
forward together.
But when I went into this filmState of the Unity, I went into
it thinking great unity, yes,okay.

(40:56):
What do I know about unity here?

Speaker 1 (40:57):
we go.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
I was like let's go Like, how, how hard could this
be?
I thought, oh, unity, homogeny,kumbaya, oneness of thought,
it's going to be great.
What I learned is unity is nothomogeny, unity is not oneness
of thought.
The most dangerous times inglobal history are when people
thought the same had one way ofthinking.

(41:19):
There was like a global one wayof thinking, order.
When you see countries go onthis path, this is when the most
devastating things happen andpeople get hurt and people die
and it's horrible.
And so when I finished thistour well, literally when I
finished the tour I felt sobroken because we had been on

(41:40):
the road for eight monthsstraight, living out of 27
square feet together with myhusband, who I adore, but that
is like so much quality time youlike start going a little crazy
at the end.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Like about a tiny home.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Oh my gosh, I was like it's like the little things
really annoy you, like Istarted to annoy myself, like
it's that small that like my ownthoughts were annoying, you
know I.
But I think in this sense thatwhen I finished the tour I felt
broken, um, I felt mentallyexhausted.
I felt physically exhausted.
We were financially literallyruined, like in ruins after this

(42:16):
tour, because the car brokedown so many times.
That's not even in the film.
After the tour we had racked upbecause we would play shows,
we'd make enough money to get tothe next place, but then
there's food, hotels, the carwould break down and that was
like $1,200 every time it brokedown, or whatever, or more
sometimes.
And that's not even in the filmbecause it's just too many.
It's in a film.
You've got a structure withlike act one, act two, act three

(42:38):
with you know you can't do toomany dips.
It's got to be very calculated.
So maybe one day we'll releasea lot of the B-roll, which would
be hilarious.
But for now I think at the endof the tour, we're in something
like $42,000 worth of debt.
As artists you don't run indebt because debt is so

(42:59):
difficult.
We ended up for a few yearsjust paying the interest every
month, not even the principal.
And I think this is somethingthat a lot of Americans right
now are facing and that's reallyhard right.
So like if you're trying tofollow your dreams and you have
debt and you're like, whetheryou're paying student debt off
or credit card debt or both orwhatever, it can be very

(43:19):
difficult.
Really kicked in here because wehad to be real vigilant on how
we lived, because when you're anartist, traditionally you will
go through seasons.
It's very cyclical.
You'll have like really solid,fat seasons where you're on tour

(43:42):
, you're making money, you'resaving, things are great, and
then you're going to have theselittle seasons where it's like,
oh man crap, I feel like we needto.
Did we save enough to getthrough this two month period
where it's after Christmas andpeople are kind of not going out
as much, they're not spendingas much or whatever.
This is how the artist world itkind of works, even in
different, not only just music.

(44:03):
We have photographer friends,we have other friends who have
these cyclical patterns, and soI think this consistency and
also discipline really came instrong.
And so I think for people alsowho might want to change course
and pursue their dreams, butmaybe they have debt, maybe they
have things that are holdingthem back.
Right, I think that what Ifound in this period where we

(44:26):
needed to pay down that debtwhich praise the good Lord,
jesus, we don't have any debtnow it took years, but we don't
have any anymore but it camedown to vigilance and being very
disciplined and consistent.
And so if someone really wantsto pursue a dream but that's
holding them back, just know youcan get out of it.

(44:47):
But you would just have toreally look at your life and
sacrifice, make sacrifices, sayokay, well, you know, we're, I'm
going to be cooking every mealand it's going to be vegan and
you know, whatever, like Iactually am plant-based anyway,
so I would do that anyway, butmaybe it'll be rice and beans
for a while, but you know, youfigure it out and then you,

(45:10):
you're stronger on the other endof that.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I think this is a really important conversation
and I appreciate that you'rebeing so honest about it,
because that's the part that alot of times we don't see in
somebody's journey is that veryreal moment, and nature isn't
meant to bloom all the time.
So I think the artist pathartists are, so we're so in tune
with the way that nature goes.
Anyway, it's like naturally, alot of things are going to move

(45:36):
with that.
So that consistency and knowingthat it's coming you know once,
it's happened to you once, nowyou know and you can prepare for
it better, and that's hopefullyhow it gets for us over time.
But it's really this message, Ithink, is something that a lot
of us need to hear, and Iappreciate that you're coming
forward with it and sharing itto this degree.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm an open book, I'mtransparent and I think that in
being transparent and vulnerable, we are able to help other
people, maybe not feel soashamed or something.
Okay, so we did this project.
We took on debt, whatever, likewe worked our butts off to get
rid of the debt and we did it.
It took years but we did it and, like I'm very proud that we we

(46:21):
were disciplined, we figured itout Like we work together as a
team.
It makes it makes us not only astronger unit, but it makes us
individually stronger.
We know that we can confidentlytackle big things that seem
really insurmountable at times.
Right, because it's stressful.
But I would say that the filmitself and I would encourage

(46:41):
everyone to watch it.
You can watch State of theUnity on Apple TV and you can
watch it on Amazon Prime it'svideo on demand and you can
watch it on Amazon Prime it'svideo on demand.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Really it's not very expensive for a very an awesome
experience.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
I recommend watching it.
I think it's like what?
$3.99 to rent it, or nine.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
On Amazon $3.99, $5.99, I think on Apple yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Okay, and it's the same, so that's hilarious.
So go to Amazon, I guess, whichI usually would, whatever.
But go to Amazon, I guess,which I usually would, whatever.
But you can watch State of theUnion on there for $3.99 and
it's cheaper than like a fancylatte.
But the reason why I'mencouraging people to watch it
is because if you want to seesomething that's real, if you
want to see something that'sauthentic and transparent, then

(47:25):
this is the film for you, andit's very uplifting, even with a
backdrop that's loominguncertainty, right.
The funny thing about the filmfor you and it's very uplifting,
even with a backdrop that'slooming uncertainty, right.
The funny thing about the filmis we shot the film in 2016.
Well, we started filming inOctober, shot it in 2016, a
couple pinches in 2017.
There's little glimmery thingsin there from 2017, just the

(47:47):
beginning of it that kind ofgave some B-roll.
But we are in not only the samesituation in our country that
we were then.
So it's like educational in thesense of like, well, how the
heck do we move forward?
It's presenting some questionsand through lines of how do we

(48:07):
move forward together, but it'sreally starting a conversation
around unity.
It's starting a conversationaround thinking about well, yeah
, this is interesting, I guess,like what if we did do something
different?
Or how, what if we did approachpeople that we'd never talked
to and we actually learned toolsto peacefully talk to them.
It's just kind of proposingthis concept of unity in a new

(48:29):
light, kind of proposing thisconcept of unity in a new light,
that it's not homogeny but it'suplifting and it's really a
journey of deep and undeniableand unshakable faith.
We don't talk about any of thisin the film, but I hope that
when somebody watches the filmand you see the journey and you
see the struggles and you see uscontinue to show up in the face

(48:52):
of adversity, in the face ofdisappointments and overall
challenges, right, when we keepshowing up, that is the faith
that we not only have inhumanity.
So, like in our lowest moments,when you see the film, you will
see people lift us up and whenwe want to give up, wild things

(49:14):
happen, that that literally, ina way, feel like miraculous
moments that were captured onfilm that could never happen
again.
Like certain things that we goton film were like wait, did
this just happen?
Like we turned down a streetand we literally turned into
something very, very cool thathappened that changes the
trajectory of what's to come.

(49:35):
Or some person intercepts a lowmoment in the car by knocking
on the window and saying, hey,like so what's the deal with
your car?
And that moment actuallychanged the course of that.
Not only that day, but the film.
It helped us.
We wanted to give up, we wantedto quit.
So you see these moments of notonly faith in something much

(49:57):
greater than ourselves thedivine but then you see this
faith that we have in otherpeople and then the faith that
we have in ourselvesindividually to keep going and
in our love for each other tokeep going, because our love was
tested as well on this journey.
Like holy smokes, are we gonnamake it through this?
This is really hard, you know,like sleeping in your car and

(50:17):
doing these things.
So it's just a very authenticfilm.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
We made it and fought hard to keep the authenticity
in this film and fought hard toget it to where it is, where any
of us can watch it right now.
So, yes, I hope everybody goesand checks it out, and you've
surely come out as differentpeople on the other side and
you're helping through this filmto change people's lives as
well.
I think it's really, reallycool.
So, jillian, I have one lastquestion that I ask every single

(50:44):
person who comes on the podcastwhen do you see the magic in
the world?

Speaker 2 (50:52):
where do you see the magic in the world?
Oh my gosh, I see the magic inyou.
I see the magic in every personthat I meet Inside of us,
because we have this soul.
That is the spark of light fromthe divine.
It's in us already.
It's around us, but for me, Isee that it's just about opening
up to that expanse andembracing it.
So the magic is all around.
It's all around every day.
It's just about opening up tothat expanse and embracing it.
So the magic is all around.
It's all around every day.
It's when I'm walking and I seetwo people laughing on the

(51:17):
street, walking together.
It's when I'm in HeathrowAirport and I see two people run
and hug each other.
Magic is happening all the time.
When we open our eyes, we'llsee it everywhere, and it's
these miracle moments thatreally make us feel like oh my
gosh, connected to humanity.
And it's so beautiful.
And I encourage every singleone of you to just embrace your

(51:40):
authenticity and to go afteryour dreams, because the world
needs more people whose heartsare on fire.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Completely agree.
And you're doing this.
You have a retreat that youhost once a year.
You want to share that, andother where people can see you,
even with the Bergamot where.
How can people connect with you?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yes, thank you so much.
And so I host a women's retreatthat is 100% unplugged, so it's
a digital detox in Glen Arbor,michigan, on Lake Michigan,
crystal clear waters, and it'splant-based.
It's fun, there's yoga, it'scalled Wild Wondrous Women and
it is really about what we'vebeen talking about today, jen.

(52:18):
It's about untethering, it'sabout going after your dreams,
becoming your authentic self,and I told you this before we
went live on this podcast.
But I hosted my first WildWondrous Women's Retreat in 2018
.
And after that retreat, Irealized that women don't need
to be empowered.

(52:39):
And I know this might upsetsome people, because we a lot of
times here like empowered women, empowered women.
You know, I actually did thefirst retreat and I realized, no
, women don't need to beempowered.
That means, when you say that,it's almost suggesting that
there's a lack inside of someone, like, oh, I need to empower
this person.
No, women are fully powerful aswe are in this moment.

(53:01):
Women need to be encouragedbecause women are so powerful
and we have dimmed our lights tofit the mold.
But what this whole retreat isabout is about celebrating our
divine femininity, our divinemasculinity, and showing up
fully for ourselves so that wecan fully show up in the world.

(53:24):
So everything that I curate forthe Wild Wondrous Women's
Retreat is all about this.
I'm super stoked because it'shappening this year on June 16th
through the 19th and it's goingto be an absolute blast.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Thank you for sharing about it.
So where can people find youand connect with you if they're
interested in that, if they'reinterested in State of the Unity
?
Well, we told them where theycan go watch that, but where's
the best place to connect withyou?

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah.
So I would say I'm always onInstagram.
You know you can say hi there.
My name's Jillian Spies and Ihave Jillian Spies on Instagram,
wildwondrouswomencom.
I also run the Bergamot onInstagram and State of the Unity
, so there's all these differentfun things.
So it's like do you like film?
Do you like music?

(54:09):
You know our band, the Bergamot.
You can go on our website forour upcoming tour dates we're
getting ready to drop thosewhich are really excited and you
can listen to us on Spotify.
Our music is meant to upliftyour spirit.
It is kind of this juicycombination of folk with pop and

(54:32):
rock elements.
People often kind of say thatwe're alternative and it's just
a joy to be able to share thesongs that we write together
with the world and also createthese really safe spaces for
people to come together andcelebrate being alive.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
A little bit of Amy Grant influence in there.
Maybe A little else should die.
A little bit of Amy Grantinfluence in there, maybe.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
A little else should die.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
That is amazing, thank you, Jillian, so much for
coming on the podcast.
Thank you for sharing yourlight with the world and we're
so grateful to have you come onand inspire us today.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Jen, it was an absolute blast.
I can't wait to talk again andkeep shining on.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Now I know you want to be best friends with Jillian,
because I do too.
She's so wonderful, she's sucha sparkling ball of magic, just
like you, and I hope that herstory and her talk about
consistency really inspires youand this idea of playfulness.
It gets to be playful Even inthe drudgery.
That's actually the time thatwe can turn in and find our new

(55:31):
level of playfulness.
Even in those times whereconsistency is hard, even in
those times when we want to giveup, opening ourselves up and
looking for an opportunity tohave some little spark of fun is
completely transformative.
Now I'm going to pull out alittle thread from this episode
for Thursday's thread episode.

(55:52):
So stay tuned so that you getto dive in a little bit deeper
into this episode, into thatthread that I pull out together.
Thank you so much for listeningto this podcast.
It means the world to me, itmeans the world to Jillian, that
you would listen.
If you really love this episode,you can also share it on social
media.
Take a little screenshot of theepisode itself.
Share it on Instagram.

(56:12):
Tag me.
You can tag Jillian.
Our links are in the show notes.
I'm Untethered, jen.
On Instagram she's JillianSpies.
If you tag us, we will alwaysreshare your posts.
Thank you again.
So much for listening.
You just keep shining yourmagical unicorn light out there
for all to see.
I'll see you next time Bye.

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Be authentic & trust your brand of creativity – with Jillian Speece

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Be authentic & trust your brand of creativity – with Jillian Speece