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What if you could break free from the shackles of burnout and transform your life into one of purpose and fulfillment? Join us for an inspiring conversation with Leigh Burgess, a former corporate healthcare professional turned vibrant entrepreneur. Leigh's story is a testament to the power of choosing yourself and recognizing your innate gifts, even amid personal struggles. Her journey is one of informed, courageous decisions that prioritize well-being and authentic living, and her mission is to empower women globally through events, retreats, and a strong community network.
Leigh shares her transformative experiences of embracing fear and stepping into new possibilities, shedding light on the liberating effects of leaving a stable corporate life. We explore the importance of support systems and the necessity of heeding internal signals to prioritize personal growth and self-care. The episode delves into the impact of belief systems and redefining success, encouraging listeners to reassess their alignment and purpose, particularly during midlife transitions. Leigh's insights on vulnerability and authenticity are a refreshing reminder that boldness often comes in the form of small, personal decisions rather than grand gestures.
We wrap up by celebrating the magic of genuine connections and the significance of setting boundaries to maintain a balanced life. Discover the power of small actions, like taking time for meals or setting work boundaries, in choosing yourself daily. Leigh's new book, "Be Bold Today," serves as a guide for self-improvement and empowerment, encouraging everyone to embrace their imperfections and strengths. Tune in to find inspiration and motivation to live a life untethered from regrets, while shining your unique light for the world to see.
🔥 Ready to step into your next level? Join us at Island Awakening in Saint Martin from June 4-8, 2025! Let’s rise together. 🌴✨
💫 Claim your spot now: jenliss.com/retreat
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Music created and produced by Matt Bollenbach
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
And welcome to Untethered with Jen Liss, the
podcast that's here to help youbreak free, be you and unleash
your inner brilliance.
I'm your host, jen, and in thisepisode we're going to talk
about how to choose yourself andwhy that is the boldest move
you can make today.
Let's dive in.
Hey there, unicorn, it's Jen.
(00:37):
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today we have thought leader,game changer, powerhouse
connector, leigh Burgess.
Leigh is here to ignite andsupport the bold journey of
others.
She spent 20 years inhealthcare and left that as a
burnt out corporate employee,and we're going to dive into
exactly what happened to her.
She started her own business,which is a platform to unite and
(01:01):
inspire and empower women,bringing together a global
network via her events and herretreats and her membership
community.
But what is really really coolabout this story with Leigh and
about Leigh herself is that sheis using who she naturally is,
the things that she is sonaturally gifted at, and her
(01:23):
journey that she has struggledthrough the things that she is
so naturally gifted at and herjourney that she has struggled
through the challenges that shehas had and she has combined
them into something that she isserving the world with.
So, looking at her storythrough that lens, when we look
for ourself at this, coming backhome to what it is that you
(01:43):
love, what it is that are yourgifts because what you love are
your natural gifts and thensimultaneously recognizing the
gifts that you have built alongthe way, which we build through
our struggles.
We build those additional giftsthrough our challenges that we
have.
I invite you to hear her story,thinking about that lens for
(02:03):
yourself.
Her story thinking about thatlens for yourself.
We talk about the power of fun,the power of opening up space so
that we can step into ourcreativity, and that that's
where fun comes from.
We talk very deeply aboutburnout and the things that lead
to burnout and cause burnoutand what the hell we could do
about it when we find ourselvesthere not just once, but maybe
(02:24):
twice.
The hell we could do about itwhen we find ourselves there not
just once, but maybe twice.
So I really am excited to sharethis conversation with you
because it hits home sopowerfully for me, and so I know
that it will hit homepowerfully for you and help you
to live your most bold, mostbeautiful life, where you are
choosing yourself every day sothat you don't get to the end of
(02:45):
your life and wish that you hadso without further ado.
Welcoming to the podcast, leighBurgess.
Hi, leigh, hi, thank you forhaving me.
I am thrilled to have you onthe podcast to talk specifically
about the topic of being bold,because there is so much that
keeps us tethered from steppinginto our most bold, most
(03:10):
audacious, most authentic, mostuntethered selves, and being
truly bold is something that Ihave had such a journey with,
and I know that my listeners arehaving a journey with and it's
something that you specificallytalk about.
So, heck, yeah thrilled to haveyou on the podcast today to talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Putting it out there, being bold, out of the closet,
and we're going to talk allabout it.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
How did this become a topic that you specifically
talk about?
Have you had your own journeywith it?
What has brought you to thispoint?
Oh, I've definitely had my ownjourney with it, and I brought
you to this point.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Oh, I've definitely had my own journey with it and I
don't think I ever named itprior to now, you know.
So I would talk about it in myteams and in my life.
I knew I was probably beingbold, but I didn't call it that,
I didn't name it.
Every now and then I would sayto my team we're going to take a
big swing of bold here, meaningwe're we're not sure how it's
going to work out, but we'vealready thought very, you know,
(04:05):
pragmatically about it and weknow which direction we're going
to go if it doesn't, and wehope to learn right.
So I think I was always usingit in the professional space.
And then I think, personally,I've just been, you know,
someone who's verystraightforward at times,
outspoken at times.
I'm the person saying whateveryone's thinking, you know,
(04:25):
and having that courage to standup for people who don't have a
voice.
So I think I've been bold allof my life.
I just don't know if I everreally named it or actually
shouted it out loud like I donow.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah Well, what was the, what was the impetus for
you?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
feeling like this is something that I need to be
shouting out loud yeah, so I, inAugust of 2020, I quit my job
without having a job and I gotto a point where.
I was just completely burnt outand I didn't know I was burned
out.
Everyone around me apparentlydid, now that I know this.
But I think when you're burnedout you don't realize it, you
(05:03):
just keep like.
For me, I kept trying to makeit better, I kept trying to be
stronger and tougher and figureit out and work harder and just
work myself into a nub,basically, and so that was a big
swing of bold to do that.
But I think one of the thingsthat people may think is that
bold is like not thinking, notbeing totally risky, or not
(05:26):
thinking before you leap.
It's a very pragmatic processof being bold, and sure you
might have your every now andthen moment of like I just did
it, I just went with my gut, butlike you knew what you were
doing, you knew you know whatyou may learn, and or you know,
you knew that you didn't know atall, but you did it anyway.
And so, like that was my, mybold moment really was choosing
(05:48):
me, my health, my family, myrelationships, over something
that I was very good at and hadbeen in a very long time over 20
years and I just had to chooseme and my family, and so that's
what I did.
So that was my.
That was kind of the moment oflike no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I have had a couple of moments of burnout, and the
more significant one, I was indenial about that burnout for
years.
Even afterward, I wasn'twilling to admit that I was
burnt out, and so I'm curiouswhat you have to share about
that topic, or if you have thatexperience.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well, the fact that I didn't even know I was, even
though I was reactive, I wasn'tfeeling myself.
I was extremely exhausted.
I was sleeping two hours anight, but I was getting stuff
done.
I was like you know, like in me, in my like hustle which I
don't think is a bad word, but Iwas definitely hustling, like I
was like I was rocking it, butat the cost of something else
(07:11):
which was my health, myrelationships, my mental health,
my emotional health.
Like everything was sufferingexcept, potentially, the outcome
of something like the gettingthe work done, something like
the getting the work done, butlike I probably wasn't very fun
to be around.
Actually, I know that, right,you know, and I think what
people probably couldn'tapproach me as they'd like to,
(07:31):
and I just got to a place whereI thought I was actually rocking
it, when I was probably rockbottoming this, and I think for
me, I didn't see the signs.
It 2020.
Like that feels like so longago and if you remember, that
was the middle of the beginningof the pandemic.
I don't see the signs.
It's 2020.
Like that feels like so longago and if you remember, that
was the middle of the beginningof the pandemic.
I don't know what the heck youcall August.
But we didn't have a vaccine,we didn't have anything really.
You know that we knew wascoming, we knew people were
(07:53):
working on stuff, but therewasn't a lot of hope and we were
working really hard and therewas a lot of change every day.
So for me it was a veryunstable time of like trying to
figure out especially becauseI'm a planner Like if you tell
me, ok, the pandemic is going tolast six to nine months, is
what we need to do?
Like, ok, I'm on it, I got it,let's make a plan and let's
(08:15):
figure it out.
But it was the lack of like notknowing when it was going to
end, what was going to happen.
That was, I think, hard for meas a planner, a leader, you know
, leading a large team.
I'm, you know, in healthcare,so trying to help people, you
know, particularly in research,get things done.
So it was just a space andplace that was very unfamiliar
(08:35):
for me.
But then I just had that bold,brave, courageous moment of like
it's got a gift, something hasto give, and so that choice was
made.
And then what was sointeresting about that is what
happened next.
Like, you know, all these ideasI had, or things that were
possible became possible,because why couldn't they be?
And so I really just startedworking on myself, healing
(08:57):
myself, and then thinking abouthow I could help others and how
I could work the way that Iwanted to work versus the way I
had been working, which wasreally just ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I want to talk about that moment of when the
possibilities opened up.
So we're going to put a pin inthat.
I would like to backtrack tothe point of decision.
The point of decision becauseI'm curious also with your idea
of being bold, and where doesthat come into it?
I had to take a deep breathwith that one.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, it's a very scary decision, right.
So it's filled with.
For me, it was filled with alot of fear, meaning I don't
think being bold is fearlessSome people do and that your
definition is personal.
So, but mine is really steppinginto the fear and doing it
anyway and moving through it,knowing that right, left, right,
left, keep going, keep movingforward.
(09:51):
That's how you're going tolearn, that's how you're going
to get out of it, that's howyou're going to get to the next
step, where you're meant to be.
For me, it was just kind of abig gulp moment, and one that I
made thoughtfully with my family, of what we would need to do
and how we would do it andsavings we would use, because I
bootstrapped my company and soand I'm not a millionaire and in
(10:11):
the sense of kind of like juststarting off, like I really had
to figure it out.
We had to figure it out as afamily, so just knowing that I
had their support to do it andmaking that decision, and once I
made it, it was just this.
I say this a lot, but it was sofreeing and for me, at 48, to
know that anything I wanted todo was a possibility, which it
(10:35):
was when I was 47 and 46 and 45.
But for some reason, when Ibecame untethered really to my
professional corporate stable inair quotes world, I could do
anything.
And I kind of felt like I wasalmost, you know, eight or 10
years old again like, oh,everything's possible, you know.
(10:56):
And so it was a reallyinteresting feeling of decision
and then opportunity, you know,with your normal like ah, do I
even know what I'm doing or howdo I even do that and where do I
start?
So just kind of figuring it out.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, there's this gif that I send to people often
that where it's a basketballplayer, I think, and he's
screaming, anything is possible.
I feel like that's what I'm,out there with this podcast,
screaming to people.
However, when you bring up sucha good point that you can't
feel that until you feel thatyou can't feel the possibilities
(11:28):
until you, so it almostrequires that we make the
decision for ourselves so thatwe can then feel into the
possibility.
It's like one thing happenedand then the other thing
happened, but we think thatwe're going to feel the
possibility first.
We think that we're going to,which.
I do think that visualizationand some of those things is very
helpful to us, maybe in walkingus across that threshold.
(11:51):
But what has helped you?
What has helped you on yourhealing journey?
What are some of the thingsthat you have done to support
you?
Because that decision wasreally scary.
What happened right afteryou've made that decision?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, so I think of myself as a work in progress,
always.
So I think I'm still trying tofigure me out and evolve, and I
even wrote a post about thatthis morning.
Of like success is just a pointin time.
Like I really think we'reevolving and you know, you've
heard people say it's thejourney, not the destination,
but it truly is.
(12:27):
I think I want to be betterthan I was yesterday, that 1%
better type of mindset.
So for me to heal, I had tofirst admit like what I was
doing was, you know, really notgood for me and I had to
prioritize myself, which is very, very, very uncomfortable.
(12:47):
Three varies there.
So like, so I'm sure someonecan relate to that.
That's listening, very, veryuncomfortable.
Three varies there.
So I'm sure someone can relateto that.
That's listening of like, oh, Idon't want to actually put
myself first, I have to puteverybody else first.
And we hear the whole oxygenmask, you know story, which is
true.
But for me, you know, Iactually didn't realize I wasn't
doing that, like I was totallyignorant, meaning not knowing
(13:11):
that I was really pushing myselfto a very, very unhealthy place
.
And I'm smart, I'm driven, youknow, like it's not accomplished
.
Yeah, it's not about degreesafter your name.
You know this is about like areyou listening to the signs, are
you heeding the warnings?
Are you seeing the yellowflashing light?
And it was like Nope, nope, Idon't see that light.
(13:31):
Nope, it'll, it'll, it'll turnoff.
Let me restart the car, likewhatever, whatever the tips and
tricks that you use, like youknow, to mute the sound or to
turn off the alarm, like I wasdoing that.
And I think what I learned was Ihad to stop doing that.
And for me, I had to recentermyself honestly of like, what
(13:52):
did I want to do?
Like I had worked a very longtime in an industry that can be
very challenging and it's awonderful industry to be in, but
it just kind of can push you atspeeds and rates and a lot of
things that you have to figureout at the top levels, and it
can just be very, very hard.
I had to think, you know, do Iwant to go back into that?
Because at one point I didn'tknow if I was going to, and I
(14:15):
had to.
I knew, too, that I couldn'tjust jump into creating a
business and starting to try toreach out to people, because I
felt like that actually wouldn'tbe one authentic and two wasn't
a good decision from a mentalhealth and emotional health
perspective, like I had justbeen through a lot.
Like I, burnout is not somethingthat you just flip a switch on
(14:36):
and off, and it's something thatcan revisit you too.
So even as an entrepreneur, youcan burn yourself out very
easily.
So like I felt like I was proneto it, so it was something I
needed to really understand thesigns to it.
But what was nice, as I washealing, really understand the
science to it.
But what was nice, as I washealing, I was able to be
creative, which creates a lot ofjoy for me of like thinking and
you know what's possible andwhat businesses and what problem
(14:59):
am I solving and how can I doit differently and who can I
partner with.
And those sorts of things werereally fun for me to think about
because it was a whole new wayto think than what I was doing
in the corporate world.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
You're hitting on something so profound because a
lot of times in the healingworld and people who have been
listening to tons ofself-development and have been
reading books I just showed Lee,right before we started this
interview, that my dog ate myhomework.
He ate the self-developmentbook that I'm currently reading,
which maybe I should take as asign to go read some fiction.
(15:33):
But we can really focus on allthe things that we need to
tinker with and we need to fixand we need to figure out and we
need to know and I got to knowmy next steps and we're always
tinkering there and what itsounds like is that you're
highlighting and underliningthat you began to focus on
having some fun and thepossibility.
(15:54):
What supported you there?
Did you naturally go to thatspace?
I'm really curious, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Have fun.
Think all the fun had been youknow just ah what's the word?
Like it just had been suckedout of my life, like I wasn't
fun anymore and certainly Iwasn't having fun.
And by fun I mean you knowdoing things, spontaneously,
laughing.
You know spending time withpeople who I want to spend time
(16:25):
with.
I mean I was spending 16 hoursa day easily at work and you
know, in some of it virtual andsome of it in person, even
though it was the beginning ofpandemic, I was in health care,
so I still went in.
So 16 hour days I was sleeping,maybe two.
So you know, you can do themath.
It doesn't leave very much timeand it doesn't leave time for
(16:45):
things that are quality.
So I really wanted to get thatreset and, for me, have more fun
.
I mean, some of the things wedid was like, wow, we've never
gone there before, I haven'tseen daylight in a long time.
Like you know, I've had vitaminC deficiency most of my career.
Honestly, as silly as thissounds, because I'm never
outside, I'm always in theoffice and my doctor can, you
(17:08):
know, tell you about it, youknow.
So I think you know justactually getting outside doing
things that are simple but funand meaningful, and exploring
and saying, hey, what do I wantto do?
Like I thought it was going tobe an interior designer.
I was like I love to designthings, I love to create space
that just gives you a hug andit's organic and it's luxurious
(17:29):
and it's just all.
You know all this, all all thethings.
And then I learned like Icouldn't, you know, like not
that I couldn't do it, but Icouldn't make a living off of it
, you know.
So I was like, okay, I reallydon't have 10 to 15 years to
kind of earn my stripes and gothrough that or, you know, be a
designer to the star.
Like I just not going to beable to do that.
But it was something that thenled me to parts of the bold
(17:52):
framework that I created.
So I have a bold frameworkcalled, you know, in the acronym
is Believe, own, learn, designand the D is design.
And some of the aspects of thatparticular part of the
framework are really around theelements within design, like
harmony, balance, structure,white space.
So it's kind of cool because Iwas able to integrate some of
(18:16):
that initial thinking of what Icould be into what I am and who
I am and creating this frameworkin and of itself.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I love that you came back home to your creativity and
what it was that you used tolove to do because that's what I
always walk people through islike what did your seven year
old self just freaking love todo and what were those feelings?
And you know, like you said,it's like I love being in a in a
comfy, luxurious space andbeing held in that space.
Like that then turns around andyou start to put that, infuse
(18:46):
that into everything that you do.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And it's just, it's very authentic and it has and
I'm using the word again organic.
Because if I think now I'm inyear four of my build and
evolution of my business and Ilook back at what I've done,
I've created spaces through mybold retreat, through the bold
table, through the collectivethat I've created in a
membership.
I didn't do it all in amembership, I didn't do it all
(19:10):
in year one.
I think that's the one thing isjust be careful.
I see people go so fast and Inever want to like shoot
someone's dream down.
But you can't do everything inyear one and you have to really
think thoughtfully.
You see so many things onsocial media.
Even I get frustrated seeinglike, oh, overnight you'll have
this and get 800k followers in,you know, three months and yeah,
(19:33):
you can get them, but they'renot going to be anyone that's
ever going to buy from you.
That's really you know, want tohear your message and those
types of things.
So like it just depends on kindof why you're doing what you're
doing.
But I don't think success has ashortcut and I think that's
really, really important.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, and your nervous system?
This cannot handle thatovernight success in the way
that we think it can.
You know it's like when thatdoes happen.
I think there's a very natural,organic way that growth happens
and when we jump from one thingto another too soon without
having the right support alreadybuilt in, and that support kind
(20:10):
of organically gets built in aswe go through the process of
building a business.
So I think that's a reallyimportant thing to highlight,
that it doesn't happen overnightand there's actually a reason
for that because you're growingand you're learning and you're
changing along the way andgaining those skills.
If you're willing, are youwilling to walk us through your
(20:30):
bold framework?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Sure, yeah.
So it's really important forfolks to know that you can go
through it in order.
You can go through it once.
Usually people go through thewhole framework once and then
they may come back and revisitcertain aspects of it.
So with that in mind, it startsoff with belief.
So belief is really going andtaking a deep dive into our
(20:52):
beliefs, understanding how ourbeliefs are helping us or maybe
harming us, and where they comefrom.
So a funny story I tell is thatwhen and I believe in coaches
and I have a coach and we weregoing through this when I first
started off and I said she'slike we're going to talk about
shadows and I'm like I don'thave any shadows, we can skip
(21:13):
this chapter and it was like shewould like just pause for a
moment and, you know, bless herheart, like she stuck with it,
but like we went there and I dohave shadows.
Obviously everybody has them,that's probably why they're
called shadows but I didn't evenrealize they were there, how
(21:35):
they were really potentiallyembedded in my belief system.
That was potentially going tohold me back from being able to
go to the next step.
I think, as you kind of workthrough those and figure those
out.
That might be a place or spaceyou revisit, you know, in the
future.
Then you get into ownership,which is owning what you should
owning, making sure that you'renot owning things you should not
, which was one of my biggestissues.
So I had this mantle ofresponsibility of everything was
my responsibility, and thisreally came, I think, from how
(21:58):
I've grown up and things thathave happened in my life.
Like I lost my brother veryearly and I was six, he was 11.
So there was a sense of likewanting to make sure everything
was okay and safe.
And you know I was.
I don't, no one ever told me Iwas, but somehow I became the
responsible one to make sureeveryone was safe and, you know,
no one was going to get hurt.
And so I think that kind ofmanifested into like a whole
(22:21):
different, all these differentspaces in my life, and so I was
always trying to predict andprevent something from going
wrong.
And when you're doing that like24-7, that will absolutely wear
you out.
And so I don't think I realizedI was doing as much as I was
doing until I kind of put myselfthrough my own framework and
then owning the good stuff, likeI wasn't doing that enough.
(22:44):
Like celebrating the wins, thelittle wins, the big wins, the
medium, all sizes, the goodstuff.
I wasn't really owning that asmuch as I should.
I think learning was one thatI've always been a lifelong
learner.
I've always had a growthmindset.
You know, every now and thenyou can have a fixed mindset
moment, but I kind of you know,the main place I live is in
(23:05):
growth mindset, knowing thatwhen I fail, it's not, it
doesn't mean I'm done or I'm notgood at it, it just means I got
to figure something out or I'velearned something.
So but that's what the L is allabout.
And then the D is design, whichwe talked a little bit about,
which has elements and kind ofpractices around the idea of
like the literal design concepts, but it's designing the life
(23:26):
that you want to live, that'saligned with your passion and
purpose, and that's kind of howyou go through it and you can
visit different pieces or partsof the framework you know back
or you can go through the wholething again.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
It's so simple and so powerful.
I think that as I listen to you, there are pieces I mean I
resonate with the entire thing.
I particularly and I'm curiousabout listeners to my
particularly based on an email Isent a few weeks ago and how
many responses I got where thetitle was I'm too fucking
(23:59):
responsible.
I think that we can all reallyrelate into that ownership space
of taking on too muchresponsibility and making sure
that everybody else is okay andnot making sure that we are okay
, but trying to actually makeourselves feel okay by making
(24:20):
everybody else feel okay.
It's like okay, if they're allokay, then I'm going to feel
okay inside.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I think I was definitely like I feel like I
mastered L, like I was in a goodspace there, like you know,
knowing that failure didn't meanthe end, it just meant a
beginning of learning.
But my beliefs I think I wasreally not understanding how
they were guiding me so heavily.
And then my ownership piece wasjust off the scale in a
direction of trying to preventin the professional workplace,
(24:52):
trying to prevent things fromgoing wrong, and like thinking
that there was a perfect day.
And I never considered myself aperfectionist either, which is
something I learned about myselfin that coaching session, you
know, right after I left,because I was like I felt like
perfectionism was a really badword, like that person was
(25:12):
snobby or, you know, thoughtthey were better than somebody
else or this or that, but no,like it.
Just you think like things canbe perfect and like you can
prevent things from going wrong,which is really where my
perfectionism was really, youknow, I think, running me into
the ground and in my space.
Obviously we're dealing withhuman beings in healthcare and
(25:33):
so like there's a high price topay for a mistake, and so I had
that, I think, mantle ofresponsibility again on top of
me and this is something youknow I did to myself.
You know that, you know thereare, you know there's ways that
I think people can lead andunderstand and, you know, help
you, and maybe I didn't havesome of those always, but I mean
(25:53):
, ultimately I takeresponsibility for it.
I take responsibility forgetting to that place or space,
because I think that's ownershiptoo, of knowing I kind of got
myself here.
You know it doesn't mean I gotthere alone, but I mean
(26:24):
no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
When it comes to the belief stuff, I'm curious
because you hit on that a littlebit in there and it sounds like
you have faced some of that.
You faced some of the shadowsand really saw what was there
and picked up the rug and sawall the dust that you've been
putting in there and I put underthere Stuffing in the closet
yeah all of those things whatreally supported you in belief
(26:52):
work, and maybe it's part ofyour framework and part of what
you teach, because I think someof us realize, okay, there are
some beliefs here we might havesome noticings about.
Oh, some of these beliefs arewhat I might call some of your
tethers, Some of those oldbeliefs.
They just need to be cut, youknow.
But what for you, what reallyseems to work in the belief
space?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I think for me, finally, at that point which I
was 48, which is also like froma research perspective, in your
late 40s, you know, which iswhere people say you have a
midlife crisis or it's actuallyyou are done, being misaligned
there's an unhappiness curvethat occurs in the late 40s and
you're just done so.
(27:33):
If you're in that 45 to 50range and you're feeling like
I'm noticing that I'm misaligned, that the flashing caution
light's coming on more thannormal, or I'm just feeling a
pull to do something different,just sit with it, be curious
about it, Lean into it, and Ithink, when I finally got to
that place where I made thedecision, what I realized which
(27:55):
I knew but had forgotten is thatit was good to be me.
I'm a nice person, I'm a verysmart person, I'm kind, like I
had like never really, and it isstill very difficult, difficult
, like.
I don't know where it is,though here it is what's on my
desk.
So this is a journal and I'msupposed to write every day
three things I nice about myself.
(28:17):
I just want to show you howmany things I have read.
I started this in January.
Two I'm fun, I am kind, honesty, so that what I mean I'm a work
in progress, but I just think,like, for me it's like realizing
that what I'm doing is making adifference.
And for me that was hard when Ifirst started to tell my story
(28:42):
or to be vulnerable or to sharethings on social media, because
I just thought we were supposedto be perfect.
Share things on social mediabecause I just thought we were
supposed to be perfect, we werenot to have any blims or
blemishes or you know, weweren't supposed to fail and put
it out there.
We knew we were.
Everyone is.
I think that's what's sofreaking hilarious about some of
the things on social media islike everyone's failing but no
(29:04):
one's talking about it, you know.
So I think for me I had thoughtthat's the way that you were
supposed to be successful.
I was, you know, kind of nottalking about things that don't
work.
And I think that's the othershift that I had was like it's
good to be me and it's okay totalk about when things don't
work and it's okay to share that.
And I think that led to justpeople being inspired.
(29:27):
I mean that first time someonesays to you that you inspire me,
it was a responsibility thingfor me.
Again, I'm like, wow, I betterone.
Keep going, you know, make sureI'm really being even more
thoughtful than ever.
Like it added a level of for megood pressure, because there's
good and negative pressure.
But for me it was like sharingmy story led to someone else
(29:50):
feeling like they could maybetry something or get curious, or
maybe just make a plan to dosomething different in the
future, which for me that'ssuccess.
Like just start thinking about,like you were talking about the
just do it, like, but you don'tknow how good it's going to
feel until you do it.
Or you don't even know whatyou're going to learn until you
do it, you know.
So I think it's going to feeluntil you do it.
(30:10):
Or you don't even know whatyou're going to learn until you
do it, you know.
So I think it's not always afeel good day too.
As an entrepreneur which Ithink everyone can relate to,
that most likely.
But is it a feel good every dayin a corporate world?
I live that.
No, so I think just thinkingabout you know your value and
the impact that you can have onothers.
It really shifted for me when Imade that decision the impact
that you can have on others.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
It really shifted for me when I made that decision.
That perfectionism is so sneaky.
It comes in what you said aboutokay.
Well, somebody said I inspiredthem, and so then it's like all
of a sudden I need to be perfectat inspiring.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, like oh, people are looking.
You know people are watchinglike, oh, my goodness, like I
better get my stuff together.
I got to get that more honed in, and so I think for me then I
had to check myself.
At least.
I then had kind of thedashboard of indicators for me
that I was going to payattention to, and that was
perfectionism was one of them.
(31:00):
Responsibility was another.
Am I owning this?
Am I taking this on when it'snot mine, or am I not really
owning what's gone well and thewins and the things that are
successful, because we sometimesfocus so much on what's not
working and we don't really getthe opportunity to think about
what has worked well.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
There's so much learning.
The most beautiful learning canbe in looking at what is
working and making that shift.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, but we don't do it.
I don't know how you do it, butI mean we do weekly wins and
it's like once you like everyFriday kind of like wrangle them
up, you're like, wow, it was agood week.
But in my mind I'm like Ididn't make those sales, I
didn't give that client, I lostthat lead.
You know, whatever it may be,or I'm behind in X, y or Z,
which you can put anything onthat list each day.
(31:48):
But it's just like flipping thescript on what's working and
then what you're still workingon.
It's okay to still be workingon something.
Everything's not going to be ina bow every Friday.
What a relief, yeah, at leastin my world.
I don't know about you, but atleast in my world, everything
isn't neat in a bow.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
No, it never is.
There's an acceptance of that,that the world simply is not
perfect, and that's actuallywhat makes it a gorgeous place
to be, exactly.
Yeah, so I'm curious to hear,because both of us have lived in
the corporate world and nowalso in the entrepreneurial
world, and there are a lot ofthings that I look back and I'm
(32:30):
like oh.
I wish corporate Jen, I wish shehad known this.
I'm curious for you do youthink that the only way for
someone to be able to live a big, bold life, that they feel
accomplished, that they feelsuccessful, that they've
(32:50):
achieved things they want toachieve, is by making a wild
move and leaving the job?
What's your take on that?
Do we need to do something bigin order to be bold?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
No, I think one of the things I write about in the
book is that some of my boldestmoves are actually the quietest
ones.
They're not going to be insocial media.
You may never even know aboutthem, I may never talk about
them.
I'll just they're mine and youknow that could be a thought,
that could be something I wroteand shredded, it could be
something that's in my journal,it could be a conversation I had
(33:25):
with my husband or my daughteror my parents, like those bold
moments, like really personal,and they're probably the
quietest ones.
I think you can make a big boldmove, like I did, but I don't
advise everyone to quit your jobwithout having a job.
I just say that you do need topotentially get to a point where
you choose yourself, and itmight be scary and you might not
(33:47):
know the next step, but youneed to do it.
If you're telling yourself thatyou can't do it because of
money or because ofirresponsibility or X, y or Z, I
think you need to checkyourself because what's the
price if you don't do it?
Right, you think about all thethings that could happen if you
do do it, but what's the priceif you don't do it?
So that's kind of like led tomy big bold decision.
(34:09):
But I think, you know, bold's ona continuum and I think it
could be just the beginning ofthinking about something or
having a conversation or writingit down or saying I'm not going
to do that again, you know.
So I think that comes, you know, with the ownership of like I'm
in charge of what happens nextin my life.
Sometimes we don't feel likewe're in charge, which I totally
(34:30):
get and can relate to, butyou're responsible for your
behavior, the way that you'removing about the world, and so
realizing that again someone'snot going to do it for you is
really, really important.
So, whether you're making aquiet move or a loud move,
they're all bold whether you'remaking a quiet move or a loud
(34:50):
move, they're all bold.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
What you said about what's the price of if you don't
do it, it's so easy for us tohold space for the other side
For the cost.
Our brain is very capable oftelling us all the things that
could go wrong.
We're really good at seeing thescary things, but the human
mind and body and nervous systemis so good.
We're so good at seeing that,but how often do we truly hold
space for what's the cost of notdoing it?
(35:17):
And the cost of not doing it isthat at the end of your life
you look back and you say Ididn't choose myself.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Which is the number one regret of the day is the
number one regret of the day.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
It's when you think of, like, what if I, you know,
do this or continue down thisroute, of whether it's, you know
, I'll just take my working 16hours Like I was getting a lot
done, I was very productive, myteam was rocking it, but at a
cost, at a cost of my health,their health, you know.
You know our outcomes weregreat, but you know it doesn't
mean how you got there was good,Right.
So I think you know thinkingabout that and I think a lot of
(35:52):
the times, especially whenyou're burned out, it is your
health, your relationships, youremotional health, your physical
health, your mental health thatare going to be hit the most in
that, you know, in thattimeframe, at least for me, that
was my experience and again Ithink it can come back.
I mean, last December I had oneof those moments, you know, end
of year three.
(36:12):
Last year was a hard year oflike just for a lot of
businesses, a lot of clients,and I just, you know, tried to
be as understanding as I can and, like you know, things were
happening, especially at the endof the year, of things I
thought were going to happen,didn't happen or go through, and
I had planned, obviously for Q1of this year for them to be in
place, whether it's a newcontract or a potential client,
(36:34):
a lead, something like that.
But I got to a point you knowwhere I was again working easily
till 11 o'clock at night andyou know, starting it at seven
and working till 11.
And you know, I was like whatam I doing?
Like I it just it kind of creptup on me in a way.
I thought, but I mean, again,it was one of those moments I
think everybody else saw it andI needed to reset.
(36:55):
What was nice is I knew how todo it.
I knew how to do it quickerthan before and when it happened
in 2020, and I kind of gotreset.
So I think it was my firstknowledge of like it can come
back.
You know, like I felt like onceyou burned out, once that's
like one and done, and that'snot it.
At least for me, that's notwhat I experienced.
(37:16):
I don't know about others andexperts in this area, but it
easily for me could come back ifI let it.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, same.
I have burned out multipletimes and what I realized is oh,
it's because I'm not choosingmyself, as you say.
And I'm curious for you whatare some of the teeny tiny ways
right now, if you're willing toshare that you have been
choosing yourself?
What are those little things wetalked about, the little
celebrations, the little wins,what, for you, is a way of
(37:45):
choosing yourself?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, they're going to sound probably very simple
and potentially silly, but youknow, for me, like eating lunch
is a big deal.
Like I could easily just get upin the morning, have water,
coffee and then go all the waytill five and not eat anything
at all.
So eating regularly, getting upfrom my desk and you know
whether it's taking the dog fora walk or you know, like we had
(38:09):
the solar eclipse this week so Iwas like, okay, let's, let's go
do something fun with that.
Like just taking time to getoutside and to do something as
simple as taking a walk is sucha reset for your mental health
and you feel good, you know, youfeel like you're getting some
steps in and getting outside,and so I think that's something
that I choose.
And then you know picking whenI'm going to stop working at the
(38:32):
beginning of the day so that itdoesn't kind of creep in.
And then sometimes I needaccountability partners for that
, whether it's my husband or ormy daughter who is partnering my
business of like saying, okay,you said six and it's like 720,
like what's going on, you know.
So just having some checks andbalances in there for me, I
think, is really helpful.
So you know, getting outside,eating well, eating regularly,
(38:53):
and then really choosing when.
When is, like you know, it'stime to quit for the day,
because as an entrepreneur, Ifeel like I could work 24 hours
a day and still be behind.
And so I think you know,whether it's ideas I have or
things I want to create, justknowing that there is a stop and
start time, because you knowthe engine just can't run that
long.
If you think about yourcomputer, like, you leave your
(39:15):
computer on or you like shut itdown, you put it to sleep, you
know, think about the buttons onyour computer.
You know, like I now do thehard shutdown for myself and for
the computer each day.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, and to go back to the very beginning, where you
said it was when I made thatdecision and when you left that
job, you left a lot of thosestressors behind that.
All of a sudden you were somuch more creative because you
had time to look at thatpossibility.
So it's that idea, it soundslike, of implementing that into
(39:48):
your actual structure of life.
Was I turn it off?
And so then that opens up spacefor you to enjoy and I go back
to like I didn't know how tohave fun.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
And then I'm doing it again Like I had you know, like
I just didn't know how to havefun.
Like, what do you do besideswork, because work is fun to me,
like I enjoy my job, which isreally, you know, not everyone
gets to say that I feel verythankful and grateful.
I get to say that.
But, like, what do I do besideswork?
And what do you do?
(40:17):
And like, thinking about, whatare your hobbies?
What do you like to do?
We're, you know, going to go onvacation.
I make sure that we do thatregularly too.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
That's not something that youknow.
We went on vacation when I wasin the corporate world, but
usually, you know, let's justsay, we went for a week, we
loaded up, we went down.
I, you know, did the everythingI was supposed to do.
(40:38):
You know, put your message onthat kind of jazz, but I usually
read emails till Wednesday.
By Wednesday I felt likeeverything's good, I can
disconnect.
I'd have to put my phone in adrawer and then I would still
check it in the evenings.
It was never a disconnect, youknow.
So I think I don't.
That's definitely something Idon't do anymore.
So I think it's really importantto really take time away and
(41:00):
time off from your business,even when it's your business,
which is really, really hard.
Because for me, like I usewords like wow, I felt lazy
today.
I was like whoa, check yourselfthere, you know.
Like you, just it's Saturdayand I'm not even kidding, I'm
not making this up Like it'slike, oh, I felt lazy.
(41:22):
I watched basketball lastweekend, like okay, it was
Sunday, you know.
So, like, really thinking abouthow you're talking to yourself
as an entrepreneur and in thecorporate world, both, but I
think particularly for me, itwas more of the entrepreneurial
mindset of like aren't Isupposed to be doing something
right now?
You know, is someone gettingahead?
Am I going behind?
No, like what's happening?
So it's kind of a reset ofthose for me, too, when it comes
to choosing myself.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
The unconscious keeping score of the moments of
rest that we took for ourselvesis wild.
I'm also and a lot of listenersof this podcast too are likely
these people where I find myselfworking too hard, too much and
have to implement those stops.
My husband was like okay,between 7 pm and 8 pm every
night, we are not talking aboutany kind of work things, we're
(42:06):
not looking at our phones, weare simply sitting here and
we're having some time together,and it doesn't always have to
be I'm taking the entire nightoff.
It can be, and the more timethat we get off of working is
great, and it can start withbetween 7 and 8 pm, we turn off
our phones and we do giveourselves that space.
(42:26):
So there's grace for ourselvesas entrepreneurs too, that we're
figuring it out along the way.
At least that's for me, and I'dbe curious to hear your
thoughts about that too becausewe like to work.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's why we're doing it, yeah exactly, and I
want to help people and I wantto serve people.
I mean I have a servantmentality and so if I'm not
answering that text or gettingthat DM, did I let somebody down
?
That goes back to me and myownership.
You know, like I got, I'm usingmy framework daily and so you
know from that perspective, butlike, if you don't turn that
(42:58):
phone off or put that phone down, now my phone when I come down
just goes over by the coffeemaker and it just stays over
there, versus I take it with me,because I usually come down out
of the office with a book andmy phone and my water, and so
it's just like okay, so that'sgoing to follow me through it.
And what I was doing was Iwasn't reading, I was on my
(43:19):
phone answering things orlooking at things or just doing.
I was way on my phone too much.
And so again, it sounds simpleand maybe you've all solved this
, but for me I needed to kind ofagain train myself.
Like it doesn't need to followme.
So it just stayed over by thecoffee maker.
But you have to disconnect andif for me, like if I don't, it
will come at a cost of my health.
You know, like if you're on yourphone till right till you go to
(43:40):
bed, you're not going to go tobed right away, you're not going
to sleep well, you're going to,you know, probably have
restlessness potentially, andfor me, my mind's already going,
so I don't really need the helpof, you know, the light of the
phone and electronics tostimulate it.
So, thinking about those typesof things and whether it's
journaling or meditating orwhatever you do, just making
(44:00):
sure you know I remember someonesaying the best way to get a
good night's sleep is toexercise.
So, like that's, my mind ismovement.
So, like you think, just beingable to, whether it's walking on
the walking pad or like youknow, if you can, outside, you
know, just being able to do thethings that help you kind of get
in that, really, if you thinkof, you know, turning off your
computer or putting into sleep,like, what do you need to do to
(44:21):
put yourself in those kind ofzones of rest?
Speaker 1 (44:25):
and renewal and then you'll start to notice the
little micro joys as well.
I love your focus on fun andit's in my experience.
I talk a lot about fun.
However, I recognize thatthat's a very hard word for a
lot of people, which is sort ofironic, but we clench up when
somebody says go have some fun.
We're like I don't know, Idon't know how to have fun.
(44:46):
What does that mean?
The pressure?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, pressure, don't pressure me to have fun.
Yeah, so it's.
It's something I mean.
When you just ask someone like,what do you do for fun, is like
it is an intense kind of aquestion because you're like, am
I going to answer correctly orfast enough, or, yeah, do I even
have anything?
You know?
And then you feel bad becauseyou don't have anything you know
.
It's like, don't put thatpressure on someone.
Like, I think, just in thissense of like, are you doing
(45:11):
things that aren't work related,outside of you know the, you
know eight to five zone, orwhether the work, whatever the
work zone, is for you?
And you know, are you going toconcerts?
Are you getting outside, areyou learning a new language?
Are you trying some art orgoing to the art museum or
trying out for that soccer team,whatever it may be?
You know reading that good bookthat isn't about work or
(45:34):
getting ahead or growing yoursocial or like.
You know, like I'm a very heavynonfiction reader, so every now
and then I try to read afiction book, which I'm just not
good at, but I'm trying, yeah,you know.
So like in that sense of like,just doing some things that you
know you enjoy, but they may notjust have this direct connect
(45:55):
to something that's going to getyou ahead or, you know, solve a
problem is have other inputs,have other inputs.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
We can't be creative when we just have the same
inputs.
So it's the idea of JuliaCameron and the artist's way
take yourself on artist dates,go do something that's fun for
you, go to the museum, get someother inputs and then you have
more creative ideas.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, so, like you know, mix the prints.
You know, like, whatever it maybe, you know, think about
something that you normallywouldn't do, like go somewhere
at noon, you know, take, taketime in the middle of your day
from 12 to four, or take a halfday.
You know, like we quarterlyhave creative trips where we'll
just go for a day trip from hereand we'll, you know, whether we
(46:47):
go, we're in new England, sowhether we go to Vermont or
Maine or down to the city inBoston or but, but it's just
there's no agenda except to havefun and to, you know, pick some
places or spaces that we wantto go visit and go do it, you
know, cause everything isn'topen after seven.
You know what you want to do.
So, in and those are thosetimes become some of the most
(47:09):
one.
They're very fun, they'rememorable and and you learn
something, and it is a creativespace and you start to think
about things that maybe youwouldn't have even thought about
if you were in the office.
That you know like, oh, wow, Icould take that, oh, I'd love to
learn more about, or maybe Icould meet.
You know, all thesepossibilities, I think again,
they start to pop up when you'rein that space of just letting
(47:30):
your brain rest, and they startto pop up when you're in that
space of just letting your brainrest and letting your
intentions kind of be just onyou in the moment, versus the
future, and I think those arereally, really powerful moments
that we need more of in our life.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yes, what a fun idea.
I love the idea of the littlecreative trips that we could be
taking and not having it be ahuge deal.
It's like you're not having todo all of the work so that you
can be gone for a deal.
It's like you're not having to,like, do all of the work so
that you can be gone for a week.
It's like a little trip thatyou can take somewhere.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, just do a day trip and with no agenda other
than to have fun, and so thatleaves for, you know, sopping or
pulling off or what's that, orlet's go down that road.
You know, like, really just youknow learning.
You know a lot of people who inyour own hometown haven't done
some things in your own hometownthat people probably come to
visit to do be a tourist in yourown town.
(48:18):
Yeah, yeah, so it doesn't evenhave to be far.
You know, and you know, takethe long weekend and take monday
off, like, if you want to dolike a longer trip and something
that's with travel and againtraveling, I think, also is a
way to be creative and it getsyou out of your place or your
space that you're normally in.
You interact with people, youpractice muscles that you didn't
have to practice when you're,you know, in your home office.
(48:40):
Those types of things you knowpatience, understanding, like,
okay, you're learning how peopleare, you know, you know solving
problems or doing things, andso I think it's travel just is
one of those things, too that Ithink people should do more of,
because I think it leads to, youknow, being intentional and
being present.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Totally on board with that.
One of my friends recently saidI live in Portland, Oregon, and
we had a friend who was amutual friend, who was in town,
and we went and did a couple ofthings with that person that
neither of us had ever done andshe said you know what I'm going
to do, Jen?
I am going to book a hotel indowntown Portland, Even though I
live in Portland.
I'm going to book a hoteldowntown and I'm going to spend
(49:18):
my time as though I was atourist and I was like what a
genius idea, because we don't dothat when we live in the place,
and a whole differentperspective that would bring
about all the things that you'resharing there.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, and it's just such a, it's such a different
way to operate, and then that'snot a day lost, or that's not
you being lazy or not beingfocused.
That's actually you renewingyourself, filling your cup,
having fun, doing things thatare healthy for you, and then
it's an experience that you can,you know, use or just feel like
(49:49):
in the sense of your world andkind of how it can just be a
very positive impact for youjust to take that break and it
leads to you coming back morerefreshed and being able to, you
know, hit the ground running.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
So good.
I want to like fist pump atthis.
It's so good Okay, lee onefinal question that I ask every
single person who comes on thispodcast when do you see the
magic in the world?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Where do I see the magic?
To me it's in relationships,honestly and connection.
So I always look at the spacesI create as kind of that's my
job.
But the magic really happenswhen the women come together in
the space and support oneanother, listen to one another
and really help one anotherauthentically.
So I think it's the magichappens with true connection.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Beautiful.
Love that response and you'resuch a powerful connector.
I've been following all of thethings that you do.
I'm like wowzes.
So everybody go connect withLeigh and where you have this
beautiful book, be Bold Today.
Where can people find it?
Get it pre-order?
It Is it available now.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, we'll give you all the links.
It's available for pre-ordernow.
So any place where you buy abook, whether it's Target or
Amazon or Books A Million, youknow or your local bookstore,
you just Google it and it'sgoing to come up and you can
pre-order it.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
And it's beautiful.
I love the type and the colorand just the boldness of the
book itself.
It's bold, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
I love it.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
I hope you all enjoy it.
Thanks for coming on thepodcast.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Leigh Absolutely.
Thank you, absolutely.
(51:59):
Thank you.
Two words on this book.
I'm like that is the realityand that's the reality that we
are moving through and with, asthere's something that we
recognize we can improve on.
Right, something that she canimprove on is recognizing and
celebrating things about herselfthat are so awesome.
And she's not doing itperfectly right now, and that's
okay.
She recognizes that it'ssomething that she wants to work
on, so she starts and then sheadmits the vulnerability of like
you know what this isn't like,necessarily going as I had hoped
(52:19):
it would, and then over timeshe is going to begin to start
to recognize those thingsbecause she's admitting to the
vulnerability, she's admittingand sharing really where she's
at with it, and so that's theprocess.
We're never doing anythingabsolutely perfectly.
We're always simply movingforward with where we're at and
learning and grooving and movingalong the way.
(52:39):
So I hope that thisconversation brought you a sense
of peace, this bold frameworkthat she has.
I think if it resonates withyou, it can be genius.
Do definitely go and check outher book.
All of the links to connectwith Leigh are in the show notes
.
You're definitely going to wantto follow along with her
journey and grab that book.
(53:00):
Thank you so much for listeningto this podcast.
If there was something thatreally tugged at your heart,
that really was a huge aha foryou.
I encourage you to share thispodcast with somebody else who
might need to hear it.
You can share it with all ofthe people who might need to
hear it If you take a littlescreenshot of the episode, share
it on Instagram or social media, and if you tag me I'm
untetheredjen on Instagram Iwill always reshare your post.
(53:24):
You can also tag Leigh.
She would love to know if thisreally resonated with you.
Thanks again for listening.
You just keep shining yourmagical unicorn light out there
for all to see.
I'll see you next time.
Bye.
And welcome to Untethered with Jen Liss, the
podcast that's here to help youbreak free, be you and unleash
your inner brilliance.
I'm your host, jen, and in thisepisode we're going to talk
about how to choose yourself andwhy that is the boldest move
you can make today.
Let's dive in.
Hey there, unicorn, it's Jen.
(00:37):
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today we have thought leader,game changer, powerhouse
connector, leigh Burgess.
Leigh is here to ignite andsupport the bold journey of
others.
She spent 20 years inhealthcare and left that as a
burnt out corporate employee,and we're going to dive into
exactly what happened to her.
She started her own business,which is a platform to unite and
(01:01):
inspire and empower women,bringing together a global
network via her events and herretreats and her membership
community.
But what is really really coolabout this story with Leigh and
about Leigh herself is that sheis using who she naturally is,
the things that she is sonaturally gifted at, and her
(01:23):
journey that she has struggledthrough the things that she is
so naturally gifted at and herjourney that she has struggled
through the challenges that shehas had and she has combined
them into something that she isserving the world with.
So, looking at her storythrough that lens, when we look
for ourself at this, coming backhome to what it is that you
(01:43):
love, what it is that are yourgifts because what you love are
your natural gifts and thensimultaneously recognizing the
gifts that you have built alongthe way, which we build through
our struggles.
We build those additional giftsthrough our challenges that we
have.
I invite you to hear her story,thinking about that lens for
(02:03):
yourself.
Her story thinking about thatlens for yourself.
We talk about the power of fun,the power of opening up space so
that we can step into ourcreativity, and that that's
where fun comes from.
We talk very deeply aboutburnout and the things that lead
to burnout and cause burnoutand what the hell we could do
about it when we find ourselvesthere not just once, but maybe
(02:24):
twice.
The hell we could do about itwhen we find ourselves there not
just once, but maybe twice.
So I really am excited to sharethis conversation with you
because it hits home sopowerfully for me, and so I know
that it will hit homepowerfully for you and help you
to live your most bold, mostbeautiful life, where you are
choosing yourself every day sothat you don't get to the end of
(02:45):
your life and wish that you hadso without further ado.
Welcoming to the podcast, leighBurgess.
Hi, leigh, hi, thank you forhaving me.
I am thrilled to have you onthe podcast to talk specifically
about the topic of being bold,because there is so much that
keeps us tethered from steppinginto our most bold, most
(03:10):
audacious, most authentic, mostuntethered selves, and being
truly bold is something that Ihave had such a journey with,
and I know that my listeners arehaving a journey with and it's
something that you specificallytalk about.
So, heck, yeah thrilled to haveyou on the podcast today to talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Putting it out there, being bold, out of the closet,
and we're going to talk allabout it.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
How did this become a topic that you specifically
talk about?
Have you had your own journeywith it?
What has brought you to thispoint?
Oh, I've definitely had my ownjourney with it, and I brought
you to this point.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Oh, I've definitely had my own journey with it and I
don't think I ever named itprior to now, you know.
So I would talk about it in myteams and in my life.
I knew I was probably beingbold, but I didn't call it that,
I didn't name it.
Every now and then I would sayto my team we're going to take a
big swing of bold here, meaningwe're we're not sure how it's
going to work out, but we'vealready thought very, you know,
(04:05):
pragmatically about it and weknow which direction we're going
to go if it doesn't, and wehope to learn right.
So I think I was always usingit in the professional space.
And then I think, personally,I've just been, you know,
someone who's verystraightforward at times,
outspoken at times.
I'm the person saying whateveryone's thinking, you know,
(04:25):
and having that courage to standup for people who don't have a
voice.
So I think I've been bold allof my life.
I just don't know if I everreally named it or actually
shouted it out loud like I donow.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah Well, what was the, what was the impetus for
you?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
feeling like this is something that I need to be
shouting out loud yeah, so I, inAugust of 2020, I quit my job
without having a job and I gotto a point where.
I was just completely burnt outand I didn't know I was burned
out.
Everyone around me apparentlydid, now that I know this.
But I think when you're burnedout you don't realize it, you
(05:03):
just keep like.
For me, I kept trying to makeit better, I kept trying to be
stronger and tougher and figureit out and work harder and just
work myself into a nub,basically, and so that was a big
swing of bold to do that.
But I think one of the thingsthat people may think is that
bold is like not thinking, notbeing totally risky, or not
(05:26):
thinking before you leap.
It's a very pragmatic processof being bold, and sure you
might have your every now andthen moment of like I just did
it, I just went with my gut, butlike you knew what you were
doing, you knew you know whatyou may learn, and or you know,
you knew that you didn't know atall, but you did it anyway.
And so, like that was my, mybold moment really was choosing
(05:48):
me, my health, my family, myrelationships, over something
that I was very good at and hadbeen in a very long time over 20
years and I just had to chooseme and my family, and so that's
what I did.
So that was my.
That was kind of the moment oflike no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I have had a couple of moments of burnout, and the
more significant one, I was indenial about that burnout for
years.
Even afterward, I wasn'twilling to admit that I was
burnt out, and so I'm curiouswhat you have to share about
that topic, or if you have thatexperience.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well, the fact that I didn't even know I was, even
though I was reactive, I wasn'tfeeling myself.
I was extremely exhausted.
I was sleeping two hours anight, but I was getting stuff
done.
I was like you know, like in me, in my like hustle which I
don't think is a bad word, but Iwas definitely hustling, like I
was like I was rocking it, butat the cost of something else
(07:11):
which was my health, myrelationships, my mental health,
my emotional health.
Like everything was sufferingexcept, potentially, the outcome
of something like the gettingthe work done, something like
the getting the work done, butlike I probably wasn't very fun
to be around.
Actually, I know that, right,you know, and I think what
people probably couldn'tapproach me as they'd like to,
(07:31):
and I just got to a place whereI thought I was actually rocking
it, when I was probably rockbottoming this, and I think for
me, I didn't see the signs.
It 2020.
Like that feels like so longago and if you remember, that
was the middle of the beginningof the pandemic.
I don't see the signs.
It's 2020.
Like that feels like so longago and if you remember, that
was the middle of the beginningof the pandemic.
I don't know what the heck youcall August.
But we didn't have a vaccine,we didn't have anything really.
You know that we knew wascoming, we knew people were
(07:53):
working on stuff, but therewasn't a lot of hope and we were
working really hard and therewas a lot of change every day.
So for me it was a veryunstable time of like trying to
figure out especially becauseI'm a planner Like if you tell
me, ok, the pandemic is going tolast six to nine months, is
what we need to do?
Like, ok, I'm on it, I got it,let's make a plan and let's
(08:15):
figure it out.
But it was the lack of like notknowing when it was going to
end, what was going to happen.
That was, I think, hard for meas a planner, a leader, you know
, leading a large team.
I'm, you know, in healthcare,so trying to help people, you
know, particularly in research,get things done.
So it was just a space andplace that was very unfamiliar
(08:35):
for me.
But then I just had that bold,brave, courageous moment of like
it's got a gift, something hasto give, and so that choice was
made.
And then what was sointeresting about that is what
happened next.
Like, you know, all these ideasI had, or things that were
possible became possible,because why couldn't they be?
And so I really just startedworking on myself, healing
(08:57):
myself, and then thinking abouthow I could help others and how
I could work the way that Iwanted to work versus the way I
had been working, which wasreally just ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I want to talk about that moment of when the
possibilities opened up.
So we're going to put a pin inthat.
I would like to backtrack tothe point of decision.
The point of decision becauseI'm curious also with your idea
of being bold, and where doesthat come into it?
I had to take a deep breathwith that one.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, it's a very scary decision, right.
So it's filled with.
For me, it was filled with alot of fear, meaning I don't
think being bold is fearlessSome people do and that your
definition is personal.
So, but mine is really steppinginto the fear and doing it
anyway and moving through it,knowing that right, left, right,
left, keep going, keep movingforward.
(09:51):
That's how you're going tolearn, that's how you're going
to get out of it, that's howyou're going to get to the next
step, where you're meant to be.
For me, it was just kind of abig gulp moment, and one that I
made thoughtfully with my family, of what we would need to do
and how we would do it andsavings we would use, because I
bootstrapped my company and soand I'm not a millionaire and in
(10:11):
the sense of kind of like juststarting off, like I really had
to figure it out.
We had to figure it out as afamily, so just knowing that I
had their support to do it andmaking that decision, and once I
made it, it was just this.
I say this a lot, but it was sofreeing and for me, at 48, to
know that anything I wanted todo was a possibility, which it
(10:35):
was when I was 47 and 46 and 45.
But for some reason, when Ibecame untethered really to my
professional corporate stable inair quotes world, I could do
anything.
And I kind of felt like I wasalmost, you know, eight or 10
years old again like, oh,everything's possible, you know.
(10:56):
And so it was a reallyinteresting feeling of decision
and then opportunity, you know,with your normal like ah, do I
even know what I'm doing or howdo I even do that and where do I
start?
So just kind of figuring it out.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, there's this gif that I send to people often
that where it's a basketballplayer, I think, and he's
screaming, anything is possible.
I feel like that's what I'm,out there with this podcast,
screaming to people.
However, when you bring up sucha good point that you can't
feel that until you feel thatyou can't feel the possibilities
(11:28):
until you, so it almostrequires that we make the
decision for ourselves so thatwe can then feel into the
possibility.
It's like one thing happenedand then the other thing
happened, but we think thatwe're going to feel the
possibility first.
We think that we're going to,which.
I do think that visualizationand some of those things is very
helpful to us, maybe in walkingus across that threshold.
(11:51):
But what has helped you?
What has helped you on yourhealing journey?
What are some of the thingsthat you have done to support
you?
Because that decision wasreally scary.
What happened right afteryou've made that decision?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, so I think of myself as a work in progress,
always.
So I think I'm still trying tofigure me out and evolve, and I
even wrote a post about thatthis morning.
Of like success is just a pointin time.
Like I really think we'reevolving and you know, you've
heard people say it's thejourney, not the destination,
but it truly is.
(12:27):
I think I want to be betterthan I was yesterday, that 1%
better type of mindset.
So for me to heal, I had tofirst admit like what I was
doing was, you know, really notgood for me and I had to
prioritize myself, which is very, very, very uncomfortable.
(12:47):
Three varies there.
So like, so I'm sure someonecan relate to that.
That's listening, very, veryuncomfortable.
Three varies there.
So I'm sure someone can relateto that.
That's listening of like, oh, Idon't want to actually put
myself first, I have to puteverybody else first.
And we hear the whole oxygenmask, you know story, which is
true.
But for me, you know, Iactually didn't realize I wasn't
doing that, like I was totallyignorant, meaning not knowing
(13:11):
that I was really pushing myselfto a very, very unhealthy place
.
And I'm smart, I'm driven, youknow, like it's not accomplished
.
Yeah, it's not about degreesafter your name.
You know this is about like areyou listening to the signs, are
you heeding the warnings?
Are you seeing the yellowflashing light?
And it was like Nope, nope, Idon't see that light.
(13:31):
Nope, it'll, it'll, it'll turnoff.
Let me restart the car, likewhatever, whatever the tips and
tricks that you use, like youknow, to mute the sound or to
turn off the alarm, like I wasdoing that.
And I think what I learned was Ihad to stop doing that.
And for me, I had to recentermyself honestly of like, what
(13:52):
did I want to do?
Like I had worked a very longtime in an industry that can be
very challenging and it's awonderful industry to be in, but
it just kind of can push you atspeeds and rates and a lot of
things that you have to figureout at the top levels, and it
can just be very, very hard.
I had to think, you know, do Iwant to go back into that?
Because at one point I didn'tknow if I was going to, and I
(14:15):
had to.
I knew, too, that I couldn'tjust jump into creating a
business and starting to try toreach out to people, because I
felt like that actually wouldn'tbe one authentic and two wasn't
a good decision from a mentalhealth and emotional health
perspective, like I had justbeen through a lot.
Like I, burnout is not somethingthat you just flip a switch on
(14:36):
and off, and it's something thatcan revisit you too.
So even as an entrepreneur, youcan burn yourself out very
easily.
So like I felt like I was proneto it, so it was something I
needed to really understand thesigns to it.
But what was nice, as I washealing, really understand the
science to it.
But what was nice, as I washealing, I was able to be
creative, which creates a lot ofjoy for me of like thinking and
you know what's possible andwhat businesses and what problem
(14:59):
am I solving and how can I doit differently and who can I
partner with.
And those sorts of things werereally fun for me to think about
because it was a whole new wayto think than what I was doing
in the corporate world.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
You're hitting on something so profound because a
lot of times in the healingworld and people who have been
listening to tons ofself-development and have been
reading books I just showed Lee,right before we started this
interview, that my dog ate myhomework.
He ate the self-developmentbook that I'm currently reading,
which maybe I should take as asign to go read some fiction.
(15:33):
But we can really focus on allthe things that we need to
tinker with and we need to fixand we need to figure out and we
need to know and I got to knowmy next steps and we're always
tinkering there and what itsounds like is that you're
highlighting and underliningthat you began to focus on
having some fun and thepossibility.
(15:54):
What supported you there?
Did you naturally go to thatspace?
I'm really curious, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Have fun.
Think all the fun had been youknow just ah what's the word?
Like it just had been suckedout of my life, like I wasn't
fun anymore and certainly Iwasn't having fun.
And by fun I mean you knowdoing things, spontaneously,
laughing.
You know spending time withpeople who I want to spend time
(16:25):
with.
I mean I was spending 16 hoursa day easily at work and you
know, in some of it virtual andsome of it in person, even
though it was the beginning ofpandemic, I was in health care,
so I still went in.
So 16 hour days I was sleeping,maybe two.
So you know, you can do themath.
It doesn't leave very much timeand it doesn't leave time for
(16:45):
things that are quality.
So I really wanted to get thatreset and, for me, have more fun
.
I mean, some of the things wedid was like, wow, we've never
gone there before, I haven'tseen daylight in a long time.
Like you know, I've had vitaminC deficiency most of my career.
Honestly, as silly as thissounds, because I'm never
outside, I'm always in theoffice and my doctor can, you
(17:08):
know, tell you about it, youknow.
So I think you know justactually getting outside doing
things that are simple but funand meaningful, and exploring
and saying, hey, what do I wantto do?
Like I thought it was going tobe an interior designer.
I was like I love to designthings, I love to create space
that just gives you a hug andit's organic and it's luxurious
(17:29):
and it's just all.
You know all this, all all thethings.
And then I learned like Icouldn't, you know, like not
that I couldn't do it, but Icouldn't make a living off of it
, you know.
So I was like, okay, I reallydon't have 10 to 15 years to
kind of earn my stripes and gothrough that or, you know, be a
designer to the star.
Like I just not going to beable to do that.
But it was something that thenled me to parts of the bold
(17:52):
framework that I created.
So I have a bold frameworkcalled, you know, in the acronym
is Believe, own, learn, designand the D is design.
And some of the aspects of thatparticular part of the
framework are really around theelements within design, like
harmony, balance, structure,white space.
So it's kind of cool because Iwas able to integrate some of
(18:16):
that initial thinking of what Icould be into what I am and who
I am and creating this frameworkin and of itself.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I love that you came back home to your creativity and
what it was that you used tolove to do because that's what I
always walk people through islike what did your seven year
old self just freaking love todo and what were those feelings?
And you know, like you said,it's like I love being in a in a
comfy, luxurious space andbeing held in that space.
Like that then turns around andyou start to put that, infuse
(18:46):
that into everything that you do.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And it's just, it's very authentic and it has and
I'm using the word again organic.
Because if I think now I'm inyear four of my build and
evolution of my business and Ilook back at what I've done,
I've created spaces through mybold retreat, through the bold
table, through the collectivethat I've created in a
membership.
I didn't do it all in amembership, I didn't do it all
(19:10):
in year one.
I think that's the one thing isjust be careful.
I see people go so fast and Inever want to like shoot
someone's dream down.
But you can't do everything inyear one and you have to really
think thoughtfully.
You see so many things onsocial media.
Even I get frustrated seeinglike, oh, overnight you'll have
this and get 800k followers in,you know, three months and yeah,
(19:33):
you can get them, but they'renot going to be anyone that's
ever going to buy from you.
That's really you know, want tohear your message and those
types of things.
So like it just depends on kindof why you're doing what you're
doing.
But I don't think success has ashortcut and I think that's
really, really important.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, and your nervous system?
This cannot handle thatovernight success in the way
that we think it can.
You know it's like when thatdoes happen.
I think there's a very natural,organic way that growth happens
and when we jump from one thingto another too soon without
having the right support alreadybuilt in, and that support kind
(20:10):
of organically gets built in aswe go through the process of
building a business.
So I think that's a reallyimportant thing to highlight,
that it doesn't happen overnightand there's actually a reason
for that because you're growingand you're learning and you're
changing along the way andgaining those skills.
If you're willing, are youwilling to walk us through your
(20:30):
bold framework?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Sure, yeah.
So it's really important forfolks to know that you can go
through it in order.
You can go through it once.
Usually people go through thewhole framework once and then
they may come back and revisitcertain aspects of it.
So with that in mind, it startsoff with belief.
So belief is really going andtaking a deep dive into our
(20:52):
beliefs, understanding how ourbeliefs are helping us or maybe
harming us, and where they comefrom.
So a funny story I tell is thatwhen and I believe in coaches
and I have a coach and we weregoing through this when I first
started off and I said she'slike we're going to talk about
shadows and I'm like I don'thave any shadows, we can skip
(21:13):
this chapter and it was like shewould like just pause for a
moment and, you know, bless herheart, like she stuck with it,
but like we went there and I dohave shadows.
Obviously everybody has them,that's probably why they're
called shadows but I didn't evenrealize they were there, how
(21:35):
they were really potentiallyembedded in my belief system.
That was potentially going tohold me back from being able to
go to the next step.
I think, as you kind of workthrough those and figure those
out.
That might be a place or spaceyou revisit, you know, in the
future.
Then you get into ownership,which is owning what you should
owning, making sure that you'renot owning things you should not
, which was one of my biggestissues.
So I had this mantle ofresponsibility of everything was
my responsibility, and thisreally came, I think, from how
(21:58):
I've grown up and things thathave happened in my life.
Like I lost my brother veryearly and I was six, he was 11.
So there was a sense of likewanting to make sure everything
was okay and safe.
And you know I was.
I don't, no one ever told me Iwas, but somehow I became the
responsible one to make sureeveryone was safe and, you know,
no one was going to get hurt.
And so I think that kind ofmanifested into like a whole
(22:21):
different, all these differentspaces in my life, and so I was
always trying to predict andprevent something from going
wrong.
And when you're doing that like24-7, that will absolutely wear
you out.
And so I don't think I realizedI was doing as much as I was
doing until I kind of put myselfthrough my own framework and
then owning the good stuff, likeI wasn't doing that enough.
(22:44):
Like celebrating the wins, thelittle wins, the big wins, the
medium, all sizes, the goodstuff.
I wasn't really owning that asmuch as I should.
I think learning was one thatI've always been a lifelong
learner.
I've always had a growthmindset.
You know, every now and thenyou can have a fixed mindset
moment, but I kind of you know,the main place I live is in
(23:05):
growth mindset, knowing thatwhen I fail, it's not, it
doesn't mean I'm done or I'm notgood at it, it just means I got
to figure something out or I'velearned something.
So but that's what the L is allabout.
And then the D is design, whichwe talked a little bit about,
which has elements and kind ofpractices around the idea of
like the literal design concepts, but it's designing the life
(23:26):
that you want to live, that'saligned with your passion and
purpose, and that's kind of howyou go through it and you can
visit different pieces or partsof the framework you know back
or you can go through the wholething again.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
It's so simple and so powerful.
I think that as I listen to you, there are pieces I mean I
resonate with the entire thing.
I particularly and I'm curiousabout listeners to my
particularly based on an email Isent a few weeks ago and how
many responses I got where thetitle was I'm too fucking
(23:59):
responsible.
I think that we can all reallyrelate into that ownership space
of taking on too muchresponsibility and making sure
that everybody else is okay andnot making sure that we are okay
, but trying to actually makeourselves feel okay by making
(24:20):
everybody else feel okay.
It's like okay, if they're allokay, then I'm going to feel
okay inside.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I think I was definitely like I feel like I
mastered L, like I was in a goodspace there, like you know,
knowing that failure didn't meanthe end, it just meant a
beginning of learning.
But my beliefs I think I wasreally not understanding how
they were guiding me so heavily.
And then my ownership piece wasjust off the scale in a
direction of trying to preventin the professional workplace,
(24:52):
trying to prevent things fromgoing wrong, and like thinking
that there was a perfect day.
And I never considered myself aperfectionist either, which is
something I learned about myselfin that coaching session, you
know, right after I left,because I was like I felt like
perfectionism was a really badword, like that person was
(25:12):
snobby or, you know, thoughtthey were better than somebody
else or this or that, but no,like it.
Just you think like things canbe perfect and like you can
prevent things from going wrong,which is really where my
perfectionism was really, youknow, I think, running me into
the ground and in my space.
Obviously we're dealing withhuman beings in healthcare and
(25:33):
so like there's a high price topay for a mistake, and so I had
that, I think, mantle ofresponsibility again on top of
me and this is something youknow I did to myself.
You know that, you know thereare, you know there's ways that
I think people can lead andunderstand and, you know, help
you, and maybe I didn't havesome of those always, but I mean
(25:53):
, ultimately I takeresponsibility for it.
I take responsibility forgetting to that place or space,
because I think that's ownershiptoo, of knowing I kind of got
myself here.
You know it doesn't mean I gotthere alone, but I mean
(26:24):
no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
When it comes to the belief stuff, I'm curious
because you hit on that a littlebit in there and it sounds like
you have faced some of that.
You faced some of the shadowsand really saw what was there
and picked up the rug and sawall the dust that you've been
putting in there and I put underthere Stuffing in the closet
yeah all of those things whatreally supported you in belief
(26:52):
work, and maybe it's part ofyour framework and part of what
you teach, because I think someof us realize, okay, there are
some beliefs here we might havesome noticings about.
Oh, some of these beliefs arewhat I might call some of your
tethers, Some of those oldbeliefs.
They just need to be cut, youknow.
But what for you, what reallyseems to work in the belief
space?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I think for me, finally, at that point which I
was 48, which is also like froma research perspective, in your
late 40s, you know, which iswhere people say you have a
midlife crisis or it's actuallyyou are done, being misaligned
there's an unhappiness curvethat occurs in the late 40s and
you're just done so.
(27:33):
If you're in that 45 to 50range and you're feeling like
I'm noticing that I'm misaligned, that the flashing caution
light's coming on more thannormal, or I'm just feeling a
pull to do something different,just sit with it, be curious
about it, Lean into it, and Ithink, when I finally got to
that place where I made thedecision, what I realized which
(27:55):
I knew but had forgotten is thatit was good to be me.
I'm a nice person, I'm a verysmart person, I'm kind, like I
had like never really, and it isstill very difficult, difficult
, like.
I don't know where it is,though here it is what's on my
desk.
So this is a journal and I'msupposed to write every day
three things I nice about myself.
(28:17):
I just want to show you howmany things I have read.
I started this in January.
Two I'm fun, I am kind, honesty, so that what I mean I'm a work
in progress, but I just think,like, for me it's like realizing
that what I'm doing is making adifference.
And for me that was hard when Ifirst started to tell my story
(28:42):
or to be vulnerable or to sharethings on social media, because
I just thought we were supposedto be perfect.
Share things on social mediabecause I just thought we were
supposed to be perfect, we werenot to have any blims or
blemishes or you know, weweren't supposed to fail and put
it out there.
We knew we were.
Everyone is.
I think that's what's sofreaking hilarious about some of
the things on social media islike everyone's failing but no
(29:04):
one's talking about it, you know.
So I think for me I had thoughtthat's the way that you were
supposed to be successful.
I was, you know, kind of nottalking about things that don't
work.
And I think that's the othershift that I had was like it's
good to be me and it's okay totalk about when things don't
work and it's okay to share that.
And I think that led to justpeople being inspired.
(29:27):
I mean that first time someonesays to you that you inspire me,
it was a responsibility thingfor me.
Again, I'm like, wow, I betterone.
Keep going, you know, make sureI'm really being even more
thoughtful than ever.
Like it added a level of for megood pressure, because there's
good and negative pressure.
But for me it was like sharingmy story led to someone else
(29:50):
feeling like they could maybetry something or get curious, or
maybe just make a plan to dosomething different in the
future, which for me that'ssuccess.
Like just start thinking about,like you were talking about the
just do it, like, but you don'tknow how good it's going to
feel until you do it.
Or you don't even know whatyou're going to learn until you
do it, you know.
So I think it's going to feeluntil you do it.
(30:10):
Or you don't even know whatyou're going to learn until you
do it, you know.
So I think it's not always afeel good day too.
As an entrepreneur which Ithink everyone can relate to,
that most likely.
But is it a feel good every dayin a corporate world?
I live that.
No, so I think just thinkingabout you know your value and
the impact that you can have onothers.
It really shifted for me when Imade that decision the impact
that you can have on others.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
It really shifted for me when I made that decision.
That perfectionism is so sneaky.
It comes in what you said aboutokay.
Well, somebody said I inspiredthem, and so then it's like all
of a sudden I need to be perfectat inspiring.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, like oh, people are looking.
You know people are watchinglike, oh, my goodness, like I
better get my stuff together.
I got to get that more honed in, and so I think for me then I
had to check myself.
At least.
I then had kind of thedashboard of indicators for me
that I was going to payattention to, and that was
perfectionism was one of them.
(31:00):
Responsibility was another.
Am I owning this?
Am I taking this on when it'snot mine, or am I not really
owning what's gone well and thewins and the things that are
successful, because we sometimesfocus so much on what's not
working and we don't really getthe opportunity to think about
what has worked well.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
There's so much learning.
The most beautiful learning canbe in looking at what is
working and making that shift.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, but we don't do it.
I don't know how you do it, butI mean we do weekly wins and
it's like once you like everyFriday kind of like wrangle them
up, you're like, wow, it was agood week.
But in my mind I'm like Ididn't make those sales, I
didn't give that client, I lostthat lead.
You know, whatever it may be,or I'm behind in X, y or Z,
which you can put anything onthat list each day.
(31:48):
But it's just like flipping thescript on what's working and
then what you're still workingon.
It's okay to still be workingon something.
Everything's not going to be ina bow every Friday.
What a relief, yeah, at leastin my world.
I don't know about you, but atleast in my world, everything
isn't neat in a bow.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
No, it never is.
There's an acceptance of that,that the world simply is not
perfect, and that's actuallywhat makes it a gorgeous place
to be, exactly.
Yeah, so I'm curious to hear,because both of us have lived in
the corporate world and nowalso in the entrepreneurial
world, and there are a lot ofthings that I look back and I'm
(32:30):
like oh.
I wish corporate Jen, I wish shehad known this.
I'm curious for you do youthink that the only way for
someone to be able to live a big, bold life, that they feel
accomplished, that they feelsuccessful, that they've
(32:50):
achieved things they want toachieve, is by making a wild
move and leaving the job?
What's your take on that?
Do we need to do something bigin order to be bold?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
No, I think one of the things I write about in the
book is that some of my boldestmoves are actually the quietest
ones.
They're not going to be insocial media.
You may never even know aboutthem, I may never talk about
them.
I'll just they're mine and youknow that could be a thought,
that could be something I wroteand shredded, it could be
something that's in my journal,it could be a conversation I had
(33:25):
with my husband or my daughteror my parents, like those bold
moments, like really personal,and they're probably the
quietest ones.
I think you can make a big boldmove, like I did, but I don't
advise everyone to quit your jobwithout having a job.
I just say that you do need topotentially get to a point where
you choose yourself, and itmight be scary and you might not
(33:47):
know the next step, but youneed to do it.
If you're telling yourself thatyou can't do it because of
money or because ofirresponsibility or X, y or Z, I
think you need to checkyourself because what's the
price if you don't do it?
Right, you think about all thethings that could happen if you
do do it, but what's the priceif you don't do it?
So that's kind of like led tomy big bold decision.
(34:09):
But I think, you know, bold's ona continuum and I think it
could be just the beginning ofthinking about something or
having a conversation or writingit down or saying I'm not going
to do that again, you know.
So I think that comes, you know, with the ownership of like I'm
in charge of what happens nextin my life.
Sometimes we don't feel likewe're in charge, which I totally
(34:30):
get and can relate to, butyou're responsible for your
behavior, the way that you'removing about the world, and so
realizing that again someone'snot going to do it for you is
really, really important.
So, whether you're making aquiet move or a loud move,
they're all bold whether you'remaking a quiet move or a loud
(34:50):
move, they're all bold.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
What you said about what's the price of if you don't
do it, it's so easy for us tohold space for the other side
For the cost.
Our brain is very capable oftelling us all the things that
could go wrong.
We're really good at seeing thescary things, but the human
mind and body and nervous systemis so good.
We're so good at seeing that,but how often do we truly hold
space for what's the cost of notdoing it?
(35:17):
And the cost of not doing it isthat at the end of your life
you look back and you say Ididn't choose myself.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Which is the number one regret of the day is the
number one regret of the day.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
It's when you think of, like, what if I, you know,
do this or continue down thisroute, of whether it's, you know
, I'll just take my working 16hours Like I was getting a lot
done, I was very productive, myteam was rocking it, but at a
cost, at a cost of my health,their health, you know.
You know our outcomes weregreat, but you know it doesn't
mean how you got there was good,Right.
So I think you know thinkingabout that and I think a lot of
(35:52):
the times, especially whenyou're burned out, it is your
health, your relationships, youremotional health, your physical
health, your mental health thatare going to be hit the most in
that, you know, in thattimeframe, at least for me, that
was my experience and again Ithink it can come back.
I mean, last December I had oneof those moments, you know, end
of year three.
(36:12):
Last year was a hard year oflike just for a lot of
businesses, a lot of clients,and I just, you know, tried to
be as understanding as I can and, like you know, things were
happening, especially at the endof the year, of things I
thought were going to happen,didn't happen or go through, and
I had planned, obviously for Q1of this year for them to be in
place, whether it's a newcontract or a potential client,
(36:34):
a lead, something like that.
But I got to a point you knowwhere I was again working easily
till 11 o'clock at night andyou know, starting it at seven
and working till 11.
And you know, I was like whatam I doing?
Like I it just it kind of creptup on me in a way.
I thought, but I mean, again,it was one of those moments I
think everybody else saw it andI needed to reset.
(36:55):
What was nice is I knew how todo it.
I knew how to do it quickerthan before and when it happened
in 2020, and I kind of gotreset.
So I think it was my firstknowledge of like it can come
back.
You know, like I felt like onceyou burned out, once that's
like one and done, and that'snot it.
At least for me, that's notwhat I experienced.
(37:16):
I don't know about others andexperts in this area, but it
easily for me could come back ifI let it.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, same.
I have burned out multipletimes and what I realized is oh,
it's because I'm not choosingmyself, as you say.
And I'm curious for you whatare some of the teeny tiny ways
right now, if you're willing toshare that you have been
choosing yourself?
What are those little things wetalked about, the little
celebrations, the little wins,what, for you, is a way of
(37:45):
choosing yourself?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, they're going to sound probably very simple
and potentially silly, but youknow, for me, like eating lunch
is a big deal.
Like I could easily just get upin the morning, have water,
coffee and then go all the waytill five and not eat anything
at all.
So eating regularly, getting upfrom my desk and you know
whether it's taking the dog fora walk or you know, like we had
(38:09):
the solar eclipse this week so Iwas like, okay, let's, let's go
do something fun with that.
Like just taking time to getoutside and to do something as
simple as taking a walk is sucha reset for your mental health
and you feel good, you know, youfeel like you're getting some
steps in and getting outside,and so I think that's something
that I choose.
And then you know picking whenI'm going to stop working at the
(38:32):
beginning of the day so that itdoesn't kind of creep in.
And then sometimes I needaccountability partners for that
, whether it's my husband or ormy daughter who is partnering my
business of like saying, okay,you said six and it's like 720,
like what's going on, you know.
So just having some checks andbalances in there for me, I
think, is really helpful.
So you know, getting outside,eating well, eating regularly,
(38:53):
and then really choosing when.
When is, like you know, it'stime to quit for the day,
because as an entrepreneur, Ifeel like I could work 24 hours
a day and still be behind.
And so I think you know,whether it's ideas I have or
things I want to create, justknowing that there is a stop and
start time, because you knowthe engine just can't run that
long.
If you think about yourcomputer, like, you leave your
(39:15):
computer on or you like shut itdown, you put it to sleep, you
know, think about the buttons onyour computer.
You know, like I now do thehard shutdown for myself and for
the computer each day.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, and to go back to the very beginning, where you
said it was when I made thatdecision and when you left that
job, you left a lot of thosestressors behind that.
All of a sudden you were somuch more creative because you
had time to look at thatpossibility.
So it's that idea, it soundslike, of implementing that into
(39:48):
your actual structure of life.
Was I turn it off?
And so then that opens up spacefor you to enjoy and I go back
to like I didn't know how tohave fun.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
And then I'm doing it again Like I had you know, like
I just didn't know how to havefun.
Like, what do you do besideswork, because work is fun to me,
like I enjoy my job, which isreally, you know, not everyone
gets to say that I feel verythankful and grateful.
I get to say that.
But, like, what do I do besideswork?
And what do you do?
(40:17):
And like, thinking about, whatare your hobbies?
What do you like to do?
We're, you know, going to go onvacation.
I make sure that we do thatregularly too.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
That's not something that youknow.
We went on vacation when I wasin the corporate world, but
usually, you know, let's justsay, we went for a week, we
loaded up, we went down.
I, you know, did the everythingI was supposed to do.
(40:38):
You know, put your message onthat kind of jazz, but I usually
read emails till Wednesday.
By Wednesday I felt likeeverything's good, I can
disconnect.
I'd have to put my phone in adrawer and then I would still
check it in the evenings.
It was never a disconnect, youknow.
So I think I don't.
That's definitely something Idon't do anymore.
So I think it's really importantto really take time away and
(41:00):
time off from your business,even when it's your business,
which is really, really hard.
Because for me, like I usewords like wow, I felt lazy
today.
I was like whoa, check yourselfthere, you know.
Like you, just it's Saturdayand I'm not even kidding, I'm
not making this up Like it'slike, oh, I felt lazy.
(41:22):
I watched basketball lastweekend, like okay, it was
Sunday, you know.
So, like, really thinking abouthow you're talking to yourself
as an entrepreneur and in thecorporate world, both, but I
think particularly for me, itwas more of the entrepreneurial
mindset of like aren't Isupposed to be doing something
right now?
You know, is someone gettingahead?
Am I going behind?
No, like what's happening?
So it's kind of a reset ofthose for me, too, when it comes
to choosing myself.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
The unconscious keeping score of the moments of
rest that we took for ourselvesis wild.
I'm also and a lot of listenersof this podcast too are likely
these people where I find myselfworking too hard, too much and
have to implement those stops.
My husband was like okay,between 7 pm and 8 pm every
night, we are not talking aboutany kind of work things, we're
(42:06):
not looking at our phones, weare simply sitting here and
we're having some time together,and it doesn't always have to
be I'm taking the entire nightoff.
It can be, and the more timethat we get off of working is
great, and it can start withbetween 7 and 8 pm, we turn off
our phones and we do giveourselves that space.
(42:26):
So there's grace for ourselvesas entrepreneurs too, that we're
figuring it out along the way.
At least that's for me, and I'dbe curious to hear your
thoughts about that too becausewe like to work.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
That's why we're doing it, yeah exactly, and I
want to help people and I wantto serve people.
I mean I have a servantmentality and so if I'm not
answering that text or gettingthat DM, did I let somebody down
?
That goes back to me and myownership.
You know, like I got, I'm usingmy framework daily and so you
know from that perspective, butlike, if you don't turn that
(42:58):
phone off or put that phone down, now my phone when I come down
just goes over by the coffeemaker and it just stays over
there, versus I take it with me,because I usually come down out
of the office with a book andmy phone and my water, and so
it's just like okay, so that'sgoing to follow me through it.
And what I was doing was Iwasn't reading, I was on my
(43:19):
phone answering things orlooking at things or just doing.
I was way on my phone too much.
And so again, it sounds simpleand maybe you've all solved this
, but for me I needed to kind ofagain train myself.
Like it doesn't need to followme.
So it just stayed over by thecoffee maker.
But you have to disconnect andif for me, like if I don't, it
will come at a cost of my health.
You know, like if you're on yourphone till right till you go to
(43:40):
bed, you're not going to go tobed right away, you're not going
to sleep well, you're going to,you know, probably have
restlessness potentially, andfor me, my mind's already going,
so I don't really need the helpof, you know, the light of the
phone and electronics tostimulate it.
So, thinking about those typesof things and whether it's
journaling or meditating orwhatever you do, just making
(44:00):
sure you know I remember someonesaying the best way to get a
good night's sleep is toexercise.
So, like that's, my mind ismovement.
So, like you think, just beingable to, whether it's walking on
the walking pad or like youknow, if you can, outside, you
know, just being able to do thethings that help you kind of get
in that, really, if you thinkof, you know, turning off your
computer or putting into sleep,like, what do you need to do to
(44:21):
put yourself in those kind ofzones of rest?
Speaker 1 (44:25):
and renewal and then you'll start to notice the
little micro joys as well.
I love your focus on fun andit's in my experience.
I talk a lot about fun.
However, I recognize thatthat's a very hard word for a
lot of people, which is sort ofironic, but we clench up when
somebody says go have some fun.
We're like I don't know, Idon't know how to have fun.
(44:46):
What does that mean?
The pressure?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, pressure, don't pressure me to have fun.
Yeah, so it's.
It's something I mean.
When you just ask someone like,what do you do for fun, is like
it is an intense kind of aquestion because you're like, am
I going to answer correctly orfast enough, or, yeah, do I even
have anything?
You know?
And then you feel bad becauseyou don't have anything you know
.
It's like, don't put thatpressure on someone.
Like, I think, just in thissense of like, are you doing
(45:11):
things that aren't work related,outside of you know the, you
know eight to five zone, orwhether the work, whatever the
work zone, is for you?
And you know, are you going toconcerts?
Are you getting outside, areyou learning a new language?
Are you trying some art orgoing to the art museum or
trying out for that soccer team,whatever it may be?
You know reading that good bookthat isn't about work or
(45:34):
getting ahead or growing yoursocial or like.
You know, like I'm a very heavynonfiction reader, so every now
and then I try to read afiction book, which I'm just not
good at, but I'm trying, yeah,you know.
So like in that sense of like,just doing some things that you
know you enjoy, but they may notjust have this direct connect
(45:55):
to something that's going to getyou ahead or, you know, solve a
problem is have other inputs,have other inputs.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
We can't be creative when we just have the same
inputs.
So it's the idea of JuliaCameron and the artist's way
take yourself on artist dates,go do something that's fun for
you, go to the museum, get someother inputs and then you have
more creative ideas.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, so, like you know, mix the prints.
You know, like, whatever it maybe, you know, think about
something that you normallywouldn't do, like go somewhere
at noon, you know, take, taketime in the middle of your day
from 12 to four, or take a halfday.
You know, like we quarterlyhave creative trips where we'll
just go for a day trip from hereand we'll, you know, whether we
(46:47):
go, we're in new England, sowhether we go to Vermont or
Maine or down to the city inBoston or but, but it's just
there's no agenda except to havefun and to, you know, pick some
places or spaces that we wantto go visit and go do it, you
know, cause everything isn'topen after seven.
You know what you want to do.
So, in and those are thosetimes become some of the most
(47:09):
one.
They're very fun, they'rememorable and and you learn
something, and it is a creativespace and you start to think
about things that maybe youwouldn't have even thought about
if you were in the office.
That you know like, oh, wow, Icould take that, oh, I'd love to
learn more about, or maybe Icould meet.
You know, all thesepossibilities, I think again,
they start to pop up when you'rein that space of just letting
(47:30):
your brain rest, and they startto pop up when you're in that
space of just letting your brainrest and letting your
intentions kind of be just onyou in the moment, versus the
future, and I think those arereally, really powerful moments
that we need more of in our life.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yes, what a fun idea.
I love the idea of the littlecreative trips that we could be
taking and not having it be ahuge deal.
It's like you're not having todo all of the work so that you
can be gone for a deal.
It's like you're not having to,like, do all of the work so
that you can be gone for a week.
It's like a little trip thatyou can take somewhere.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, just do a day trip and with no agenda other
than to have fun, and so thatleaves for, you know, sopping or
pulling off or what's that, orlet's go down that road.
You know, like, really just youknow learning.
You know a lot of people who inyour own hometown haven't done
some things in your own hometownthat people probably come to
visit to do be a tourist in yourown town.
(48:18):
Yeah, yeah, so it doesn't evenhave to be far.
You know, and you know, takethe long weekend and take monday
off, like, if you want to dolike a longer trip and something
that's with travel and againtraveling, I think, also is a
way to be creative and it getsyou out of your place or your
space that you're normally in.
You interact with people, youpractice muscles that you didn't
have to practice when you're,you know, in your home office.
(48:40):
Those types of things you knowpatience, understanding, like,
okay, you're learning how peopleare, you know, you know solving
problems or doing things, andso I think it's travel just is
one of those things, too that Ithink people should do more of,
because I think it leads to, youknow, being intentional and
being present.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Totally on board with that.
One of my friends recently saidI live in Portland, Oregon, and
we had a friend who was amutual friend, who was in town,
and we went and did a couple ofthings with that person that
neither of us had ever done andshe said you know what I'm going
to do, Jen?
I am going to book a hotel indowntown Portland, Even though I
live in Portland.
I'm going to book a hoteldowntown and I'm going to spend
(49:18):
my time as though I was atourist and I was like what a
genius idea, because we don't dothat when we live in the place,
and a whole differentperspective that would bring
about all the things that you'resharing there.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, and it's just such a, it's such a different
way to operate, and then that'snot a day lost, or that's not
you being lazy or not beingfocused.
That's actually you renewingyourself, filling your cup,
having fun, doing things thatare healthy for you, and then
it's an experience that you can,you know, use or just feel like
(49:49):
in the sense of your world andkind of how it can just be a
very positive impact for youjust to take that break and it
leads to you coming back morerefreshed and being able to, you
know, hit the ground running.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
So good.
I want to like fist pump atthis.
It's so good Okay, lee onefinal question that I ask every
single person who comes on thispodcast when do you see the
magic in the world?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Where do I see the magic?
To me it's in relationships,honestly and connection.
So I always look at the spacesI create as kind of that's my
job.
But the magic really happenswhen the women come together in
the space and support oneanother, listen to one another
and really help one anotherauthentically.
So I think it's the magichappens with true connection.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Beautiful.
Love that response and you'resuch a powerful connector.
I've been following all of thethings that you do.
I'm like wowzes.
So everybody go connect withLeigh and where you have this
beautiful book, be Bold Today.
Where can people find it?
Get it pre-order?
It Is it available now.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, we'll give you all the links.
It's available for pre-ordernow.
So any place where you buy abook, whether it's Target or
Amazon or Books A Million, youknow or your local bookstore,
you just Google it and it'sgoing to come up and you can
pre-order it.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
And it's beautiful.
I love the type and the colorand just the boldness of the
book itself.
It's bold, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
I love it.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
I hope you all enjoy it.
Thanks for coming on thepodcast.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Leigh Absolutely.
Thank you, absolutely.
(51:59):
Thank you.
Two words on this book.
I'm like that is the realityand that's the reality that we
are moving through and with, asthere's something that we
recognize we can improve on.
Right, something that she canimprove on is recognizing and
celebrating things about herselfthat are so awesome.
And she's not doing itperfectly right now, and that's
okay.
She recognizes that it'ssomething that she wants to work
on, so she starts and then sheadmits the vulnerability of like
you know what this isn't like,necessarily going as I had hoped
(52:19):
it would, and then over timeshe is going to begin to start
to recognize those thingsbecause she's admitting to the
vulnerability, she's admittingand sharing really where she's
at with it, and so that's theprocess.
We're never doing anythingabsolutely perfectly.
We're always simply movingforward with where we're at and
learning and grooving and movingalong the way.
(52:39):
So I hope that thisconversation brought you a sense
of peace, this bold frameworkthat she has.
I think if it resonates withyou, it can be genius.
Do definitely go and check outher book.
All of the links to connectwith Leigh are in the show notes
.
You're definitely going to wantto follow along with her
journey and grab that book.
(53:00):
Thank you so much for listeningto this podcast.
If there was something thatreally tugged at your heart,
that really was a huge aha foryou.
I encourage you to share thispodcast with somebody else who
might need to hear it.
You can share it with all ofthe people who might need to
hear it If you take a littlescreenshot of the episode, share
it on Instagram or social media, and if you tag me I'm
untetheredjen on Instagram Iwill always reshare your post.
(53:24):
You can also tag Leigh.
She would love to know if thisreally resonated with you.
Thanks again for listening.
You just keep shining yourmagical unicorn light out there
for all to see.
I'll see you next time.
Bye.
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