EP. 154 - Trevor Stienburg - The Kraken's Eye: A Scouts Perspective - Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know Ron and everybody credit.
You know take a guy like ShaneWright.
You know he struggled.
You know he went to the minors.
He was an elite, elite player,exceptional status.
He'd never been had thechallenges he was going to get
there.
He'd always had it easy becausehe was so good.
I give him credit.
You know it's taken a couple ofyears but you know he's
starting to really play.
Well, he's starting.
I think he's got 20 goalsalmost now.

(00:21):
You know you got to believe inthe process and I think more and
more teams are doing that.
But that's certainly the stapleof what we're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
That was Seattle Kraken amateur scout and former
first overall OHL draft pick,trevor Steinberg, and you are
listening to the Up my Hockeypodcast with Jason Padolan.
Welcome to Up my Hockey withJason Padolan, where we

(01:00):
deconstruct the NHL journey,discuss what it takes to make it
and have a few laughs along theway.
I'm your host, jason Padolan, a31st overall draft pick who
played 41 NHL games but thoughthe was destined for a thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hello there and welcome to, orwelcome back to, the Up my

(01:22):
Hockey podcast with JasonPadolan.
I am your host, jason Padolan,and before we get started with
today's guest and hisintroduction, I need to say
sorry to all of you out therewho have been waiting for an
episode.
It has been a minute, hasn't it?
But so it goes.

(01:42):
When you are an entrepreneurand a father of three and trying
to do a million things,something has to go, and for me,
it was the podcast the lastwhile.
It was just not easy to findthe guests that I was looking
for to track them down.
My personal schedule wasfreaking crazy, making 12, 14

(02:06):
hour days, seven days a week.
It just was getting to be a bitmuch, so I don't mean to give
you my issues, it's just a realworld explanation for why you
haven't heard any episodes.
So we are back, though, and wehave a couple in the can, so we
will be back on a weeklyrotation here for the near

(02:28):
future, and I'm excited aboutthe guests that we do have.
And in saying that, I have onefavorite to ask you now that I
am back, one favorite ask,because I've been watching the
downloads and the stats, and forthose of you who do listen to
podcasts since you are here, youdo listen to podcasts, and you
probably listen to other onesother than mine I want to share

(02:49):
something with you that a lot ofpeople don't know that if you
are a podcaster that means meand if you have a podcast, the
way the metrics work forpodcasts is downloads, not
streams.
Podcasts is downloads, notstreams, so there is a big
difference there, because I knowthat I, as a podcast listener,

(03:17):
never download, like very rarely.
I've maybe downloaded a fewtimes, and that was just if I
was going to go on a plane orsomething and there was one that
I wanted to listen to, so inthat scenario, I would download,
but other than that, I juststream because I'm in data or
I'm in Wi-Fi and I just listenwhen I listen and how I listen.
But that is not a way tosupport your podcast, because
when anyone asks me aboutaffiliation or maybe they want

(03:40):
to represent a product with meor whatever the case may be when
it comes to that any type ofthe business side, when it comes
to a podcast, they talk aboutdownloads and I have no idea how
, in this day and age, that theycannot combine streams and
downloads, but they only usedownloads.
I know I'm being repetitivehere, but I'm just trying to let
this sink in that if you aren'tdownloading my podcast, you are

(04:04):
not necessarily supporting thepodcast in a way that can help
me get it out there to morepeople and to bring on good
sponsors onto the show.
So I know there are a lot of youout there like me who probably
listen to podcasts and don'tdownload.
So my request is since I'vebeen off the airways for a
little while and if this is yourfirst time or if you are a

(04:26):
longtime listener, I am askingyou to pause right now and to
download the episode.
It's easy.
You can delete it.
Obviously, you're free todelete it after you're done.
I don't know how much space ison your phone, but podcasts
don't take up a lot of room.
But, yeah, just download thedarn thing.
Download like the next three ifyou can, or even for the rest

(04:48):
of your time listening to me ifyou want to download them.
That would be fantastic too.
But I just want to see, from apersonal analytics standpoint,
how many people actually don'tdownload, because if you are
anything like me, I'm sure thereis a lot of you out there that
don't.
So I would like to see how muchmy metrics actually jump and

(05:11):
how many people actually dolisten to the show.
I'm guessing, well, I'mguessing.
I have my own theories whichI'll share with you after.
But if you do me that favor, ifyou've not paused already,
pause and download.
Download this one, download thenext one, and we continue after
this and I will share with youafter.
But if you do me that favor, ifyou've not paused already,
pause and download.
Download this one, download thenext one, we continue after
this and I will share with youthe results how many more
downloads come through, becauseI've been doing this for a long

(05:32):
time now and I know roughly howmany I get per seven days is how
it works.
They'll take the downloads fromyour most recent and then all
the ones underneath it.
So, yeah, uh, there's anexperiment for me, so please to
support the show I'd love you todownload.
Now let's talk about my guest,trevor steinways.
Need to shift gears to trevor.

(05:54):
Uh, trevor is.
He's got a great story.
He's from east coast, canada,which I love.
I don't have enough guests fromthat part of our country and
part of the hockey world.
And Trevor has done it all likeas a player and as a coach and
now as a scout, as an amateurscout for the Seattle Crack.

(06:16):
And Trevor Steinberg has aridiculous hockey story.
He was the first overall draftpick in the OHL draft his year.
He was also drafted 15thoverall in the 1984 NHL draft.
That happened to be the yearMario Lemieux went first overall
, so he went 14 picks after oneof the best hockey players to

(06:39):
ever lace up the skates.
Kirk Muller was also involvedin that draft.
Anyways, trevor, by all accounts, was a heck of a hockey player.
An injury to his knee kind ofhurt his career and, I guess,
his potential, as we discuss inthe interview when it comes to
him as a player.
But that did not stop him frombecoming a coach shortly after

(07:00):
he retired, where he got in asthe head coach with St Mary's
University in the U Sports ofthe Canadian University League
and he was there for 20 years 20years as the head coach where
he won a championship for surewon, and I think, two my
goodness, I should know thatright now but definitely a

(07:22):
national champion with St Mary'sUniversity and, like I said,
now he is one of the SeattleKrakens amateur scouts, scouting
the Quebec League, I believefor the upcoming NHL draft.
So we had a great conversation.
Trevor is recognized by manyout in the eastern provinces

(07:43):
there as one of the good guys inthe game, a real big supporter
of maritime hockey, and I knowyou're going to love this
episode.
So, without further ado, Ibring you Trevor Steinberg.
All right, here we are.
Welcome to the podcast, trevorSteinberg, all the way from Nova
Scotia, nice, to meet you, youtoo.
You too, jason.
So where to start?

(08:05):
I guess?
Maybe we'll talk about theconnection.
So Mark Alexander is becomingto be a better friend of mine.
You've known him for a longtime.
He was somebody that reachedout to my call for action a
little while ago from thepodcast, which was awesome.
I'm not sure if he told youabout that.
Well, I guess he did, trevor,because he used you as a
reference, right?
So Mark was somebody that wantedto work with Up my Hockey and

(08:28):
get involved in the mindsetcapacity and it's been great to
get to know him.
And then I met him through youand now we're talking to a
national championship coach anda 15th overall draft pick and an
amateur scout for the SeattleKraken.
So I love the way the worldworks.
Again.
Maybe you can talk about thatrelationship with Mark and where
that started from.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Well, when I first when, I retired in 94, you know,
it was because of injuries, itwasn't because I wanted to.
And a guy, Daryl Young, was thecoach of the Dalhousie Tigers
and he asked me if I wanted tohelp out and I I automatically
said yes, and Mark was one ofthe guys on the team and he was
just a great kid.

(09:07):
I really enjoyed working withhim.
Do whatever you ask him, youknow complete investment in his
in his hockey life, in hiscareer as a hockey player and
student, so it was quiteenjoyable.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
That's awesome.
I'm already.
I'm already going to go down alittle rabbit hole just with
what you said there.
Uh, you know, you went on froman assistant coach to be the
head coach of the um in saintjohn's there and uh, no, sorry,
uh, not saint john's where wereyou, saint mary's sorry.
Yeah, saint mary's.
Uh won a national championshipthere, so you had a lot of

(09:40):
players come through the systemright now.
You automatically said that youwere a little bit drawn to mark
because of his approach to thegame.
Like you didn't say nothingabout him as a hockey player.
Uh, you talked about hisapproach, his willingness to do
things.
Can you, can you speak to thatfrom the coach's hat and for the
players listening?
Like what that, like what valuethat brand brings as a player
to be somebody like that yeah, Ican.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
You know, when you first start, uh, university I
was pretty green and uh, but mylittle stint at dalhousie
certainly opened my eyes to thefact that these kids are leaving
major junior a where they're,you know, somewhat pampered, I
guess, and um have sometimes uhunrealistic ideas of where
they're going to go in hockey.
So when we get them at theuniversity level, they're going

(10:23):
there.
You know they're going to go inhockey.
So when we get them at theuniversity level, they're going
there.
You know they're going there to, you know, invest in themselves
, go to school, and I just findit may take a year or two, but
these kids really do maturequick, do well in school and I
wasn't a real education guybefore, obviously, I went
straight from junior to prohockey, but it's something I

(10:46):
feel I almost missed and I givethe guys so much credit for
investing.
They still want to play hockeyand instead of going to some
lower leagues, they'll take anoff-ramp and go get their degree
and I just think it's wonderful.
I got a lot of time for thoseguys.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right, yeah, no, that's impressive, the idea of
investing in yourself.
You mean you talk about that asas a human right, you mean in
the education and thedevelopment of you on a personal
side, but there's also theinvestment in the idea of, hey,
I want to still be a betterhockey player.
I want to be a hockey player.
You know, you're talking aboutnow guys in the cia or U Sports

(11:24):
in Canada.
A lot of those guys it's notthe end of the road for them.
They're still trying to gosomewhere.
Some guys are just playing itout and you know, and using
their university or their hockeyas a vehicle to get an
education.
Maybe you can speak to the ideaof players who do invest in
themselves, who actually are astudent not only of the game but
of life and and how that can,uh, be a direct result of a

(11:47):
faster development curve well, Ithink anybody that wants to get
better, and that's what thesekids are doing, a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I'm not saying there's not some kids that just
want to lengthen their timethere, and you know maybe even
have the idea I'll go for oneyear and you know, see if I
can't get a tryout the followingyear and so forth.
But I even think those guys fallinto the fact that once they
enjoy themselves they realizethat they're not alone.
There's a lot of guys in asimilar situation, but after you

(12:15):
kind of get a couple years, youhave a feeling of
accomplishment and you see alittle light at the end of the
tunnel.
And again you're right the CIS,while there're not a lot of
players uh that went to the fromthe nhl.
There are some, but there arecertainly uh more numbers
getting to the american leagueand turning pro and going to
europe and so forth.
So it's always nice to have thekids there that aren't uh just

(12:38):
doing it to spend their schoolmoney and uh, you know, in one
of us themselves and and playhockey as well and move on after
they've got their degree.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, I had Derek Ryan on.
I mean, there's other guys, buthis story is so great he's a
former guest and if anyone'slistening that hasn't listened
to the Derek Ryan episode,please go back and find it.
So you know, doc, as they callit, he's been in Edmonton now
for the last little while andcame out a major junior with
Spokane and had the long road tothe NHL like four years in the

(13:10):
CIAU and then over into you know, some real like remote European
leagues, ended up in Finlandand Sweden and then came back
and started his NHL career at 30.
Like you know, that's obviouslynot everybody's scenario, but
everyone does have a differentpath and a different journey.
So who are we to say who'sgoing to make it and who's not?
Right?
It is about that developmentfor sure, right, like for sure.

(13:32):
It's about that investmentpiece for athletes and if you
continue to invest in yourself,like who knows where you're
going to end up 100%.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
I remember Derek played for University of Alberta
.
We played them a few timesExhibition and at the Nationals
and they have a great programand I certainly remember him as
being one of their top playersand the one thing that sticks
out is tenacious yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Good player, but he's tenacious At that time and I
never saw him play one game ofcollege hockey, so I can't speak
to it.
I looked at his numbers and hedefinitely was one of the top
performers, but of collegehockey, so I can't.
I can't speak to it.
I looked at his numbers and hedefinitely was one of the top
performers, but was that like?
Would you have picked him outof that crowd and said this guy
was going to play 500 nhl?

Speaker 1 (14:14):
games at some point, like, did he look like that to
you?
No and no, no offense to dareum, at my point there was a long
time ago for for me and Ididn't think many guys would
ever go from to the nhlL, butthere's, you know, guys like him
and Joel Ward played in the AUSfor Prince Edward Island.
That they're just wonderfulstories.
They really are.
And Brett Severn, guy I playedwith, went to U of A as well.

(14:38):
He's the media guy down inTexas right now, but he had a
long, long career and was agreat player.
And I lived with Brett Severinand I can tell you he was as
committed as they are.
He was committed to investinghimself in his education.
But I've never seen a guy offthe ice work that hard.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, that's awesome, I love hearing those stories.
Maybe a little snapshot of theU Sports scenario in Canada now.
I mean, there's tons and we'llget into that.
Maybe too, like the NCAA rulingthat now major junior players
can go to NCAA kind of put thewhole junior hockey landscape on
its ear, especially out here inthe West, with the BCHL now not

(15:17):
really knowing where it stands,and you have these major junior
players that thought theydidn't have a chance to play
NCAA can now go there.
Where does you sports fit inall this, in your opinion?
Does it?
Is there an impact?
Have you seen it yet or what?
What do you anticipatehappening?

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Well, there's an impact for sure.
I think they're just going tohave to really go for a
different pool of players in thetier two leagues.
Now they can go after some prosthat have played one or two
years.
They can still have someeligibility left, but yeah, for
sure I heard, like you know,two-thirds of the kids playing
major junior in their overageyear committed or have, uh,

(15:56):
signed up to go ncaa, and Ithink that's a that's great for
the kids.
Finally they start getting anopportunity, because I think
those rules where you play onegame or go 48 hours, that's it's
an awful price to pay tosacrifice the opportunity of
going to, you know, a goodcollege in the states and so
forth, and now they've got bothoptions yeah now.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
So what, as far as you mean you were a coach, you
sports, for a long time.
Uh, was there much crossoverfor you to the ncaa program?
I know sometimes there's theodd exhibition game here and
there, like how do you feel thelevel is comparatively?
Then I mean I'll say then I'lljust say like pre-new ruling,
right, so let's say last year orthe season before, like what

(16:38):
does the landscape look likebetween the two leagues?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Well, I think the best teams in in canada, you
know, let's just say you knowthe?
U of a's and uh, unbs and soforth.
I think they can go down andcompete with most of the teams
down there.
But there's, you know, in inthe before it was more of a.
In the past it was guys thatplayed that didn't get drafted,

(17:02):
got drafted, didn't get signedand know maybe they have a flaw
in them.
You know they're a little smallbut they're not skaters.
There's a reason why somebodydidn't sign them.
So when they come to us they'reseasoned, veteran players and
they're great hockey players attimes.
You know some of them have allthe pro potential.
They just they're lacking.
That you know they've got.
You know their skating's notdown their size or something.

(17:24):
But I think the NCAA is younger,but I think that that's the
route.
A lot of the that's how theguys from the States used to get
to the NHL was through theirschool.
So there was always a lot of,you know, superstars, potential
superstars there.
And when we went down, wealways just found that the speed
was a little bit little.
And when we went down, wealways just found that the speed

(17:44):
was a little bit little highfor us at times but we did go
down.
Later in my coaching career wewent down there and put in a few
other schools down there RPIand so forth but yeah, I would
say on average, they might be atouch faster and younger, you

(18:07):
know, and they're actuallyplaying to get drafted a lot of
times too.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
So, yeah, so like the young and you're and you're
just mentioning like kind of thedraft eligible guys are mostly,
I guess, the us born players inthat scenario are the guys like
the top end talent is therethen, whereas, like the top end
talent, um would be gone fromthe Canadian pool, although
there's, like there'saccomplished players there.
That's the one thing that I waskind of wondering, because

(18:30):
there's a lot of, like you know,whl all-stars, ohl all-stars
that are playing playing youthsports hockey, right, that have,
that were accomplished majorjunior players but for whatever
reason, like you said, justdidn't get the pro opportunity.
So definitely good players, butwe're good players, but we're
we're missing that top level 17year old, that top level 18 year
old, that that the uh that theamerican players are bringing to

(18:51):
to the ncaa, which is maybe andand I'd like your opinion on
this I've always wondered whythere's not more pro guys coming
out of u sports, like there ismore now, uh, but my theory was
that there's less reason toscout there, right, because
there's not the youth players inthe youth sports system.
So like there's not as muchtraffic as would be going to the

(19:12):
ncaa.
Who's seeing these?
You know, like guys likeyourself if you were assigned to
that league.
Right, you're watching a 17 yearold, you also see the 23 year
old that looks.
Oh, that guy's pretty good.
You know like maybe we should,maybe we should have some more
eyes on him.
So I think there might be achance for more exposure at the
NCAA level.
How do you feel about thattheory as far?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
as oh yeah, there's no questions.
There's a pile of scouts atNCAA games, you know they're
watching 17 and 18-year-old guysat the same time.
It's getting a little older now, but with us, you know, I
always found it funny that I'mright here in Halifax and the
Mooseheads have got a wonderfulprogram.
They fill the rink every nightand they have three overage

(19:51):
players that are so close to proand they didn't.
And then they end up going touniversity here at St Mary's or
at Dalhousie or at Katy orreally close by, and people have
no idea where they went oranything.
Really, they just focus on theteam at hand.
But they don't understand thatsome of these players that they
loved so much and, you know,gave so much production to the

(20:12):
team, were overage players andthese guys have decided, instead
of maybe going to the EastCoast, that they're going to use
their school package, go toschool, and I think that's a
real mature decision becausethey can always play in those
leagues when they're done.
In fact, they'll probably bebetter if they spend their time
wisely when they go touniversity and by playing, you
know, kind of twice a week andhaving the full week off.

(20:34):
There's a lot of guys that evenI've had in other teams, that
some of those guys take thattime and use it to get better.
You know, work out, train, youknow, do things with their
skating and stuff the guys thatreally want it.
Um, we'll probably end upplaying pro at some level, and
some of them at the NHL, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, and that's the thing about getting more
eyeballs on them.
I think it's just more of thatopportunity to have to have, you
know, the exposure uh neededand, um, maybe some guys can
make the jump to the NCAA too,because I think that's just
going to be more highly scoutednow.
Like that's.
That shift has happened forsure right now, with with even
like the better major juniorplayers are going to be able to
play NCAA.
Uh, it'll be, it'll be a goodthing to watch the landscape for

(21:12):
sure and see, see how ithappens.
What, um, let's get back to you.
Let's start with you as aplayer.
Uh, really intriguing, 15thoverall is no joke in 84.
And uh, and is also no joke isthat you were 14 picks behind
Mario Lemieux, so that draft was.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
It was way more than 14 picks.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, no, I get it.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
But yeah, that was quite a.
Those first few picks wereincredible.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, kirk Muller, mario Lemieux, Kirk Muller who I
was traded for, by the way.
I'm sure you didn't know that,so there's another trivia.
So when I was in florida I gottraded for, uh, for kirk muller,
one for one of the tradedeadline in my rookie year.
So I went to toronto, uh on onthat deal.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
so uh, so I was.
Yeah, you must have been a studkirk.
Uh, kirkstrom kingston.
He and I are good friends.
He's a great guy, great guy,and he's done really well.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
They're doing great in washington now too yeah, he's
been around, yeah, and he'sbeen you know what.
And the funny kirk story.
So if you know him that well, Iactually I have him on my phone
I, I, you know, I, I don't knowhim.
He knows that we got traded foreach other and and he was, uh,
he was somebody I wanted to haveon the pod for obvious reasons,
right, I mean great career.
We got traded for each other.
Uh, the funny story is, though,back in the day I I had I just

(22:25):
finished a stint up with florida, uh, before I got traded, so my
car was actually down in miami,although I started the year in
the ahl in greensboro, right, soyou know, you were an up and
down guy too, right, I mean,your life changes, as it happens
, and, and so I got sent downwhile my car was in florida, and
then, when I was, I didn't geta chance to get my car back and
I got traded to Toronto.

(22:46):
So Kirk comes in straight toFlorida.
So the boys gave him the keysto my car, which he drove around
for like a week, which I didn'teven know, right back in the
day he was driving my.
BMW around Florida with the topdown.
So anyways, that was kind offunny.
I wanted, I wanted to uh ribhim about that a little bit,
that there's still a littlerent-o-ing on that rental that
he had.
I can stay, yeah.

(23:09):
He has the money to pay you too.
Yeah, so you'll have to get usconnected.
I'd love to have him on as aguest.
Anyway, talk about that draft.
So that was like the infamousdraft.
Mario comes in like, heraldedlike some that never have been.
He fit the billing, uh, did you?
First of all, let's just talkabout that.

(23:30):
The Mario Lemieux draft waslike was how was the hype for
you, even as a player, that wasa first round to yourself with
him involved in it.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
I'm not sure I even understood the magnitude of the
draft at that point.
But um, a lot of my buddies saythat's how I became famous,
because I was sitting about arow in front of mario or behind
him.
So when, when his name wascalled, I got a little air time,
but just that was about as muchas I got, but it was incredible
I kind of knew mario a littlebit because we had the same

(24:00):
agent and what a guy he is,great guy, like you know.
Again, kirk moeller, the samething.
So yeah was a.
That was a crazy draft.
There was a lot, of, a lot ofhype around the two of them.
But certainly Mario, yeah, itwas.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
It was pretty cool when I look back, when it comes
to that, like let's go, let'srewind.
It looked from looking at yourDB, it looked like you.
It was your rookie year in theOHL.
Your yes, yeah, yeah, okay, soyou're, you're stepping into the
ohl as a 17 year old.
Uh, on a personal level, likewhat, what were your

(24:34):
expectations walking throughthat door?
Like were you?
Were you trying to make theteam even?
Like, did you?
Did you know you had a spotbefore camp?
Like what was that wholeenvironment like leading into
your draft year?

Speaker 1 (24:47):
draft year to go to the ontario league.
Yeah, to go to the ontario.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
no to go to go to the Ontario.
No to go to the Ontario Leagueas a into your draft year, so as
a rookie into the OntarioLeague.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know I have a hard time thinking back to that,
but I was so green at thatpoint my family moved out to a
place called Moscow, ontario, tolive, so my grandmother could
stay out where she lived out inthe country and so I played
double D hockey.
So there weren't even enoughplayers sometimes.
So my grandmother could stayout where she lived out in the
country and so I played double Dhockey.
So there weren't even enoughplayers sometimes to make the

(25:21):
team, so it was pretty low and Iwent to a summer hockey.
My dad asked me if I wanted toplay summer hockey and I said
yes.
So we ended up going and themidget teams, uh, said they were
full.
So my, my engineering, one of myteachers at school, was
coaching the junior team so hesaid come on out.

(25:41):
So I went out and I actuallymade the team so I played and
then all of a sudden the hypecame and then the draft came and
so by the time I got to guelph,uh, I guess I just didn't know
any better.
I just kind of played.
Obviously I was a high draftchoice going in, but it all
happened so fast.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
You were a high pick in the OHL draft.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yes, I was first, actually, but that was the year
that Olachuk Rolachuk Iafredi.
They all said that they weregoing to a couple teams, and
Guelph being one of them, andwhen they asked me I said I'll
go anywhere, I'm drafted to.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
So yeah, so I went there, but that was kind of
straight out of.
Well, hold on, let's pause this.
So you're the first overall.
I didn't even look that up.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
So you're the first overall selection to the OHL
draft your year yeah, but it wasbecause of you know, some guys
were saying kind of dictatingwhere they wanted to go.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Oh, I understand but you're being pretty humble.
Even if those guys were in yourfourth overall or fifth, so
that's pretty cool, yeah, okay.
So then that that obviouslysets the stage for my like the
next question.
Doesn't really matter that youare 100 going to be on the team
rolling into camp as aas-year-old.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, and it was kind of.
The team was quite new, They'djust gotten into major junior A,
so it was a little different,but it was good and I knew Kirk
was there.
Kirk was played for Guelph aswell, so you know, I had a
couple friends going into camp,but I was pretty raw when I went
there and you know, blind to, Iguess, the future.
You know of pro hockey and soforth.

(27:14):
I was just a country kid thateverything happened so fast
really.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Right, well, sometimes that's the best way,
because you don't get caught upin like what to even think about
, right, like I mean, you'rejust playing hockey and you
don't really even know like themagnitude of a weekend or who
was watching you or what's goingon.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Absolutely correct.
Yeah, I didn't really, and youknow it was kind of my junior
career but I ran into.
You know, I went to camp afterI was drafted and in an
exhibition game against TorontoI blew my knee out and that
started a whole bunch ofproblems because it really
wasn't diagnosed.
Great.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
They didn't do scopes as much.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I don't think that.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
So I they thought I did my uh, medial collateral
only, but I did my anteriorcruciate and that just
snowballed, and so I had a fewsurgeries during my junior
career oh gotcha, I'm going totake a short break from the
podcast to give a shout out toone of the umh68 sponsors oh,

(28:18):
and one of my spring programsponsors, and that's iron ghost
construction.
Uh, back again in 2025 withumh68 as a provincial sponsor.
Uh, what a fantastic.
Uh, what a fantastic companythis is and what a great guy
behind it all.
Iron Ghost Construction hasbeen incorporated since 2012 and

(28:40):
has grown to be recognized as atop contractor in multiple
industries, such as oil and gas,forestry and agriculture across
Western Canada, from buildingturnkey production facilities
that produce canola oil,biodiesel condensate and oil to
keeping up with the industrychanges in forestry, where new
technology and equipment arereplacing that of the past.
Iron Ghost specializes in themain structures, with the large

(29:02):
employment of iron workers,crane operators and millwrights.
Iron Ghost has successfullycompleted projects in BC,
alberta and Saskatchewan, whichis why I'm so excited that he's
on the pod.
I know that the podcast itselfreaches everywhere.
My goodness, I think there was52 countries or something crazy
last year downloaded episodes ofthe Up my Hockey podcast, which

(29:25):
is wild.
But there is a bigconcentration of people in the
Western provinces BritishColumbia, alberta, saskatchewan,
manitoba and this is rightwhere Iron Ghost specializes.
I know there's a lot of goodhockey people in some of these
infrastructures that he isproducing stuff in.
So if you are a listener of thepod, if you are into hockey and

(29:47):
Iron Ghost is something thatyou could use, my goodness,
would that be amazing for Trevorand the owner of Iron Ghost to
be like hey, I'd love to get youinvolved in one of my projects.
Let's get you to bid somethinghere.
I want to work with good hockeypeople and that's what Trevor
is.
Iron Ghost owner TrevorMcKechnie grew up as the stick

(30:08):
boy for the Vernon Lakers in theMel Liss era of the Vernon
Lakers at the age of seven, tobeing a head trainer for the
evolving Vernon Vipers underDuncan Ray.
Trevor was a part of thelocally filmed Making the Cut
that was here in Vernon as atrainer, working alongside NHL
trainers such as Jim Pizzutelli,who was known for helping save

(30:29):
Clint Malarchuk after a scarythroat slice in 1989 versus the
St Louis Blues.
Jim was working with theFlorida Panthers at the time and
invited Trevor to come down toFort Lauderdale to work with the
Panthers training camp.
It's crazy how Trevor and Ihave that connection as well,
with me being with the Panthersand after years of training in
the BCHL, trevor took his sportsmedicine to the Justice

(30:51):
Institute of BC where hecompleted his paramedicine and
worked with the BC AmbulanceService in Surrey, bc.
The scene changed when Trevorwas offered a good opportunity
to work back home inconstruction, leading crews and
making twice of what thegovernment was currently playing
to work away from home on afour by four off, 12 hour shift
position as a paramedic.

(31:11):
So, with his connections to theplaying days in lacrosse and
hockey locally, iron GhostConstruction is also a known
sponsor with the Greater VernonMinor Hockey Association, minor
Lacrosse, junior Lacrosse andmany other sports teams in the
Okanagan.
Trevor is definitely somebodythat gives back.
I've been working with his sonCarter for a while.
I mean, he's involved in sports, he loves to be a part of the

(31:34):
local community here and throughhis sponsorship with the UMH 68
, now as a provincial sponsorwith that event, he's really
giving back to a game that hasobviously been a huge part of
his life.
So once again, the idea here is, yes, to recognize people who
want to get involved in sports.
I know there's a lot of peopleout there, a lot of corporations

(31:55):
out there, that do.
Um, I'm a big fan of Iron Ghostand Trevor and uh and of course
you mean if, if, if, we cansomehow get more work to him, uh
, through this podcast, thatwould be amazing, and I'd love
to see him rewarded for foreverything that he does for the
people here in this community.
So that's Iron Ghost.
Thanks again to Iron Ghost, andif there's anyone else who is

(32:17):
interested in becoming a sponsorof the UMH 68 and be a
provincial sponsor in eitherSaskatchewan or Manitoba, that
position is available for thisyear and for coming years.
I'd love to work withlike-minded people that want to
give back to the great game andalso lower the costs of what it
is to host an event like the UMH68.
And that is one thing that Iactually forgot to mention is

(32:37):
that, with the provincialsponsorship level, part of the
proceeds that come with thatfrom Trevor and from Iron Ghost
is a scholarship program thatallows me to lower the fees for
people who can't come otherwise,it's really important for me
that these events aren't justfor people who are good and have

(32:59):
money.
It's supposed to be for thebest players in the province,
the players that have earned it.
There's obviously a costinvolved of putting this event
on and there's costs incurredwith that.
I would love to have the entireevent run through corporate
dollars and have everyone beable to show up there for
nothing.
We are growing this thing.
That's my big plan, so I'mthrowing it out there that that
is what I want to have happen.

(33:20):
That this is not another checkto parents.
I believe in the UMH 68.
I believe in the developmentexperience provided.
I know that it's different thananything out there.
I really believe that this issomething that should be on your
priority card.
For anyone who does get aninvite, you are going to leave a
better person and a betterplayer from one of my events.
But I do know that there is acost involved with coming to

(33:42):
that event and that is somethingthat I don't like to see.
But with good people likeTrevor McKechnie and Iron Ghost
and companies like Iron Ghost,they're there to help lower the
fees and lower the costs andmake it approachable for
everyone.
So, yeah, if that speaks to youout there, if you are a company
owner that wants to be involved, by all means reach out.
Jasonmyhockeycom, I'd love tohave you involved.

(34:04):
Now let's get back to theepisode with Trevor Steinberg.
Let's just stick on your onyour draft year there.
So, uh, still, though, so you,you, you come in first overall
pick.
Kirk muller's already on theteam.
I saw they led your team inpoints that year, but you
actually led the team in goals.

(34:24):
Uh, you're rolling along.
Obviously must be feelingpretty good about yourself.
At what point did somebody wantto represent you?
Uh, at what point did you knowthat, hey, I might be a first
round selection in the nhl, like?
Do you remember, like the, the,the time sequence of any of
that?

Speaker 1 (34:42):
yeah, I think it was kind of just around the ontario
hockey league draft that, uh, Iwas approached I think you know
kirk might have had something todo with it with gus vidali, um,
great guy loved him, um, but heuh, yeah, I had him, and it was
kind of weird, like I, you know, I'm from a small town, so I
kind of felt funny saying I gotan agent, you know so, yeah,

(35:04):
yeah, but yeah, he was, he wasmy guy and um, you know, so it
was uh, you know, that's's how Ikind of got into it and got to
know guys like Mario as well.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Right, right, and then when did he?
So?
He was the one that was tellingyou about where your placement
was.
I know the hockey news, like Itell my boys all the time, right
, Like they don't evenunderstand a world without
internet, right, like there's nosuch thing for them.
And so I was saying there wasthis one publication called the
Hockey News back in our day thatwe would read.
It was like the hockey Bible,right, it came out whatever it

(35:37):
was once a week or once everytwo weeks.
And then there was like thedraft rankings would come out,
you know, in certain capacitythere, and like that was the
only place that you would eversee it.
And I know that my draft year Iwas locked into the Hockey News
.
Like I was totally looking atthat and watching it and reading
what people were saying, butthat was essentially the only
place you could see it.
And then the other place wouldbe through my agent, potentially

(35:58):
, right, that would be saying,hey, you know so and so likes
you, or maybe so and so iscoming to the game.
But it was really likeessentially you're operating in
a vacuum.
Uh, back in our day, like, doyou remember?

Speaker 1 (36:09):
it was the bible.
Yeah, you're right when I thinkit was the bible.
Yeah, you're right when I thinkit, I am I.
You just saying that kind ofput that all in perspective.
You'd have to wait for thehockey news to come out to see
what was going on and whateverybody was saying and so
forth.
But yeah, yeah I do rememberthat and yeah, you're always
looking at where you're rankedand so forth, and you know, know

(36:29):
that.
You know sometimes you'replaying against that player the
next night, so there's alwayscompetition.
Yeah, so yeah, it did keepthings interesting yeah, that's
fun.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
So at any point, um, you know you mentioned kind of
being a touch green, you know,or oblivious to what was
happening around you in thatenvironment, coming from a small
town and sort of your your ownpersonal pathway there.
Um, did the pressure ever showup in that draft year about you
know what was really happening?
Did?
Did you ever have to deal withwith any adversity or any type

(36:59):
of thing like that?

Speaker 1 (37:01):
I think my biggest adversity was probably and I've
been perfectly honest probably abit of my immaturity, um, but
injuries.
So uh, I would say when Ifinally dialed myself in I was
probably 19 or 20.
At that point the damage hadkind of been done on my knees so
my skating had taken a bit of adip.

(37:22):
So that was a bit of an issue.
Quebec at the time, forinstance, in 88, 89, I basically
had had my first full year up,wasn't a great year, but you
know, it was a year ofdevelopment and I was getting
excited for the next year.
And then, uh, michelle Bergeroncame back as the coach and he

(37:47):
basically traded for two veteranleft or right wingers, which,
uh, kind of put me in my place,I guess.
You know I didn't even thinkthat much about it, but in
hindsight, yeah, they'rebringing in Lucien Deblois and
Guy Lafleur.
I kind of figured I might beout.
So yeah, that was a.
That was a bit of an eye openerfor me.

(38:09):
And then you know again, withbeing a little bit held back,
with injuries and so forth, youknow the battle's on, you're
trying to play catch up and I dogive myself credit for you know
the effort I put in off the iceand so forth, but, um, I just
never was able to get anytraction, uh, when it counted.

(38:29):
So it's uh it's a tough leagueand, like I say, injuries are a
part of it.
Everything is and things haveto line up right to play in that
league.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah yeah, like it.
It is such a fine line, isn'tit?
And you know, an injury is nota small part of that fine line.
I mean, if you're, if you'refive, ten percent like you, you
pick whatever number, it isright that you've lost from an
injury.
To play in the best league atthe world in the world against
the best players in the world,that's a, that's a big detractor
, you know, and, and it can befrustrating for sure, how, how

(39:02):
was your approach to that, likeyour rehab, like how aware were
you that you had kind of lost astep, and and what were you
willing to do to try and try andmake that happen?

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Well, I went the year I made it, I had a real good
camp and I but again, I'd had mysurgery done and so forth, and
um, I just found that during theseason, this long season back
then, it wasn't as diligent asyou know, in-season training and
so forth.
So I would actually just getweaker, get worse as the year
went on and, uh, at one point myI think it was in 1990 they, I

(39:39):
had to have more surgery done toclean it out.
But again, you know, sometimesthe damage is already done, but
it's, it's real tough to getback.
You know, when you're held backby something and you know I'm
gonna say I wasn't the greatestskater quick.
Why quick?
Quickness wise.
So it took its toll.
And again you just have to lookin the mirror at times and say

(40:00):
maybe, you know, at that time ofmy life I just wasn't ready.
You know, I wasn't, uh, itwasn't good enough, yeah what
about so 15th overall?

Speaker 2 (40:08):
I have no idea in 84 what the signing bonuses were
like, but I'm sure you gotsomething.
How big of a change was thatfor you from a personal life
standpoint, and what was yourfirst purchase?

Speaker 1 (40:24):
I can tell you that my signing bonus, I believe, was
$50,000.
My first salary was $75,000,$85,000.
Started.
My first salary was 75, 85.
And then I think it went tosomething like 110 or something.
On my third year, and I canremember I roomed with Joe
Sackick in training camp.
I remember saying in our thirdyear bud, I'm going to be making

(40:48):
more than you.
You know he'd already beenRookie of the Year the year at
that point he was on his way toit.
But yeah, it wasn't.
It wasn't near what it is today.
But you know, again, I thought,you know, through my parents
they were just I was never asports car guy.
I think I bought a Mazda 626 ormy next car was a Jeep, but

(41:10):
yeah, I was kind of cheap.
I think deep down I knew maybeI wasn't gonna make it.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, that's I.
Yeah, I saved it pretty muchright, um, yeah, that's fun,
though I mean it's looking back,you don't really realize it at
the time, because it's hard tobe mature when you're not mature
, right like it's.
It's, it's difficult.
You, whatever that money was,uh, you know, I think my signing
bonus was 350 uh us, which wasgeez.
That's still a lot of money.
And, like, right now, you know,to get that at 18, 19 years old

(41:40):
and uh, and it's it's wild,right like to, to think that you
know you're handing this typeof money over to 18 19 year old
kids, and I think about conorbernard right now, right, like
you know, like what's expected,expected of him as a 19-year-old
player in his second year inthe NHL is crazy.
When you look at, like thecross-section of 19-year-olds,

(42:01):
like in your hometown, and whatthey're doing, right, it's like
you, just because you're a greathockey player, all of a sudden,
like everything needs toelevate, like it's almost unfair
at times.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
you know what the expectation is on some of these
young guys?
Yeah, it really is and you knowsome kids kind of prepare for
it.
You know, in the big citiesthey're.
You know it's moreprofessionalized there it's.
I mean it's catching up now,but I can remember, you know
there were people on my street,you know, and back in moscow
they didn't even know I playedhockey, maybe you know they just

(42:33):
they were just good old farmersand they did their thing and I
was just a little brat thatlived down the road that's right
, that's right.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
What's the um?
Since you just smiled there andwe were talking about your
tooth before I got, I got to askhow?
How did we lose that one?
Was that a boring high stick,like my friend tooth, or was it?
Was it a big fight, or how didit happen?

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I don't know how it didn't happen in a fight.
I've lost most of them, butyeah, this was actually
afterwards.
It was chipped badly and thenthe dentist just basically took
it out and I've got a flipper.
And, like I said before, mywife just hates it without

(43:16):
knowing.
This way I look right now.
I'm sure a lot of people do,but I think I left it on the
dashboard of the truck.
I've lost it, so I I don'tthink she's going to want
another $2,000 bill, so she'sgot to put up with it.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I wanted to ask you aboutthat because you know the game
was.
You know you played in theearly 90s.
I mean the game was tough then.
You also had, can you?

Speaker 1 (43:39):
hear me, I'm lost.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Oh, you can't hear me .
Hello, hello, hello, hello.
Yeah, so we were just talkingabout, like in the 90s, tough
hockey, lots of fights, you know, even guys that weren't
necessarily fighters wereexpected to do it Now and again.
It seemed like, looking at yourhockey DB, that your penalty

(44:03):
minutes kind of went up a littlebit.
Was that something that youwanted to add to your game or
they were asking you to add toyour game?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Well, I wouldn't say that.
But when I, when I got sentdown to the minors in
fredericton, they shared a team,quebec shared a team with
vancouver, so it was like 20guys showed up at training camp
from each place and it was a dogfight.
So you know it was, it was reallife.
You know it was.
If I was a second, first orsecond guy in the depth chart,

(44:34):
maybe in Fredericton, ifVancouver had two guys that were
better than I, go to third.
So you know, a lot of times itwas, you know, not a ton of ice
time and I just had to makemyself different from the other
guys.
So again, I'll give give myselfcredit.
I wasn't a very good fighterbut I was certainly willing and,

(44:55):
um, I did what I could do.
You know I I had a couple goodroommates, one of them being
jimmy agnew was with vancouverand you know he, he was a tough
kid and you know he, I wouldjust talk to him and he kind of
helped me through it.
But yeah, I just startedrealizing I had to make myself a
little bit more of a unicorn.
And it was a long year, man,I'll tell you.

(45:17):
I think I played 55 games andhad 279 minutes, and then in the
playoffs I played 13 games andhad 115 minutes in penalties.
So you know, and I got a lot ofsilver medals in the fights.
But you know I actually didn't,it didn't bother me really.
I guess you just feel goodafter doing something, right,

(45:39):
you know, sticking up for yourteammates and you know if I
didn't get a lot of ice thatgame and did something, or
whether I did, you know,obviously back then the coaches
loved that stuff and you knowthey would, you know, keep you
in the lineup if you're willingto do that.
So, um, my second year in theminors, we actually went to the
calder cup and it was a greatexperience for me, exhausting,

(46:00):
um, I don't think my eyes werewent back to normal until august
, the next summer, but they wereblack all summer.
But, um, yeah, it was a.
It was a hell of an initiationor period of time where you got
to realize how bad you wantsomething.
And I really did want to play.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
I loved, love the guys, I loved the atmosphere, I
loved everything, but I I justhad to find a way to to have
some value to the team that's uh, that's a pretty deep topic and
I I encourage players to thinkabout what you just said there
and and not necessarily as ayoung, young player in the sense

(46:41):
of you know adding, you knowviolence or fighting or that
type of stuff but but being aswell-rounded as you can be, I
think, gives you more ways to bevaluable.
You know, and I I know everyoneI shouldn't say everyone, but
majority of players, youthplayers they love scoring goals
and contributing offensively andthere's absolutely nothing

(47:01):
wrong with that.
I would never take take thataway from anybody.
But you know the value ofangles in your own end, the
value of being able to block ashot, the value of being
responsible on face-offs, youknow the value of maybe being
physical and providing somemomentum changes with the big
hit, like these are all thingsthat I think when you put the
more, more tools that you can inyour toolbox, uh, they're

(47:24):
accomplishing what you weretrying to do at the pro level
right, like how to stay relevant, how to give the coach a reason
to put you on the ice.
Do you think that there isvalue for younger players to try
and think that way as far asbuilding their skill toolkit?

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, I would never, you know, tell young kids to go
out and, you know, hurt anybodyor do anything.
But you know, I think peoplejust need to realize when you
hit pro there's a lot of moneyat stake.
You know you go get a real jobin an office or you get a chance
to do this and you know there'sa bit of a euphoria, I guess,
about being able to, you know,be respected by your teammates

(48:02):
because of loyalty.
So yeah, I, so I tipped it togo that way.
But, getting back to your point, I'm working on your angles and
doing this.
You can't get too good atanything and I think you need to
develop so much.
In fact, kids probably, youknow, work on their strengths
more than their weaknesses.
You know, I can remember I had abig shot, you know everybody

(48:22):
talked about how hard my shotwas.
So I just kept shooting pucks,you know, but didn't take care
of the other things you knowwhat I mean Like my agility, my
skating, um, and again, just goto the gym and just do squats
till I didn't feel well, and youknow I didn't have the proper
information.
I just kind of jumped inwholeheartedly and just did

(48:42):
whatever I thought and I thoughtbest way to do that was just
train until I dropped every day,basically, and we know now
that's not the way to do it, butbut yeah, you, certainly you
know, I scout all the time nowand there's some kids that don't
they.
They don't have a b game, sayyou know, if they're not scoring
they're, they're not of anyvalue really.
So, yeah, you do need to workon everything and be a complete

(49:04):
player now right.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, I love you touching on that and I was going
to segue into you you as ascout and watching players now,
and how you evaluate the idea ofbeing one-dimensional.
Like how many guys can beone-dimensional, you know, like
there's such a few few playersand when I'm talking on the
offensive side of the puck, Imean Conor Bedard is a really

(49:26):
good example.
I mean some analysts now arestarting to pick him apart
because he hasn't reallyunderstood how to take a face
off and he is a big minus everynight and he's not great away
from the puck and if he is notall these things and he's not
producing at elite levels, nowhe's under the microscope and I
understand he's only 19 andthere's a lot of career left for
him and I'm sure he's going tofigure it out.
But like we're talking aboutone of the highest producing

(49:49):
junior talents of all time,right, that is still in the NHL
because he has that eliteoffensive ceiling.
There's way more people thataren't Conor Bedard, right, that
need to work on their game alittle bit more.
But I think like theself-awareness piece of that for
amateur athletes isn't quitethere, Like everyone thinks that

(50:10):
they're just going to continueto be a goal scorer.
Can you maybe speak to that alittle bit about what you see at
the amateur level?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
I mean, yeah, that's.
It's incredible.
I mean you see guys down with90 points in the American League
and they're not getting achance to go up and play.
Same with juniors, you know soforth like that.
Yeah, I feel for Bedard.
You know he's in there one time, you know, on his own end, and
he's in his own crease and someguy was just bigger and stronger
than him and had a bit of ajump on him and scored a goal

(50:40):
and you know everybody's saying,well, he's got to have a stick
and have.
I mean it takes some time.
This guy hasn't had anychallenge in his life really per
se, until he gets to thisleague right now, and now he
realizes it.
But you know, I think peopleshould lay off him.
There's no question.
I mean he needs to get seasonedfor the league and every player

(51:00):
does.
You know every player does, Ithink every player that even
offensively they probably havebeen sat for you know reasons,
because of their defensiveliability or because they didn't
have a B game when they weren'tscoring.
They just weren't doinganything.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I'm going to ask you a question about Connor.
I don't know how much you watchhim I don't watch him a ton,
but this is just from theoutside looking in and I heard
well, I guess maybe there's alittle bit of a backstory,
because I heard in Regina thatdepends who you talk to that
maybe he was not the bestteammate in certain capacities.
Okay, so I don't know if that'strue or not, but one thing I
did see with my own eyes, andthat was this year.

(51:39):
He came down wide, and it'shappened more than this once,
but this one time in particularstood out to me.
It was a game that Chicagohadn't been doing very well, as
they haven't been doing well allyear.
They hadn't won in a while.
They were in a game at homewhere the score I think it was
1-1 or 2-1 or something, and hescored a goal from a sharp angle
, like kind of world juniorstyle, over the goalie's
shoulder, under the bar, likegorgeous shot, bedard shot, and

(52:03):
his response is what I want totalk about.
So like elite skill, everythingthat happened there.
But in the context of the gameand in the context of what the
score was and in the context ofwhat the season was he didn't
celebrate and there was no smile.
He never put his hands up.
The boys came in to likecongratulate him and there was
like monotone, right.

(52:25):
Then he went down the bench andhe did his thing and I just
looked at that as like a 19 yearold kid and I'm going how is
that not like like I want toroot for you, right, and even as
a teammate you talked aboutbeing a loyal teammate, right,
and I've been on, you know,we've been on teams and it's
like that kind of sucks theenergy out of everything that's
happening there, right, and Ithink it's somebody that, like
it makes them hard to follow,hard to like, hard to want to do

(52:49):
well, that's the interpersonalside of it.
I don't know if you agree withme I'm sure there's lots of
people that don't and just think, hey, that's completely fine.
But me being his teammate, Iwant him to be fired up there.
I want him to be excited.
I want him to show some emotion, because I want to show emotion
as well.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
I can see that and you know, on the surface I can
see how anybody would think thatI can't remember I didn't score
a lot of goals, but there weresome times when you know I get
an assist or a goal and you knowit was just where's your mind
frame?
You know we're on a 10 gamepointless streak and is it over,
and you're just, oh, my God,thanks.

(53:26):
You know.
You don't know what's goingthrough his head.
He could be thinking he's cockyand arrogant.
Meanwhile maybe the kid insideisn't, he isn't confident, you
know, maybe even scoring thatgoal, you know he felt he's
still underachieving or so forth.
So there's a, there's a lot ofthings that are going through
kids heads again, again, he's 19and there's some kids that you

(53:47):
know 18, 19 and 20 and evenolder that you know don't go get
jobs, they're too lazy to go toschool, they've got bad.
So you think here's a young kidand I mean he's thrown onto
this throne.
Yeah, he didn't ask for it,he's just good, and over the
course of 80 games and thescrutiny and so forth, like that

(54:07):
, you know, I'm sure when hewent home he was, he was
obviously glad he scored.
So the reason why he didn'tmaybe celebrate, is, you know,
maybe the fact he was just arelief out of frustration?

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, and it is a maturity thing.
Like again, I have no ideawhere he's at mentally
personally in that scenario,like to to your point, but I do
think if he was 25 in that samescenario he would.
He would recognize the opticsof that and even the impact on
those around him, right?
And I think, like that's one ofthe things that, as we grow as
players, we understand from froman emotional iq standpoint,

(54:42):
like what we do and the impactthat it has, right and and how?

Speaker 1 (54:46):
yeah, I think, yeah, it's very confusing, you know,
when I don't know coaches and soforth, like that.
But I, you know, I've seengames where you know the team's
lost and the coaches said youknow, we weren't tough.
And these guys take it to heart, you know.
So sometimes they might go homeafter that sunday whooping and

(55:06):
you know, monday show up andcoach said we weren't tough
enough.
So you know, you see, guys goand start fights and practice
and so forth, and it's notbecause they probably want to,
it's just how do I?
I react?
You know how do I react.
There's no kind of instructions.
You know one-on-one how toreact to success or failure.
So I think we all have to givethese kids a break and, you know

(55:28):
, maybe judge them a littlelater in their career.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, yeah, no 100%.
How do you do that as a scoutnow?
Like so you're watchingphysical intangibles for sure?
Uh, of course.
Right, like, how do they play?
Hockey is going to be a big one.
I.
I think that there's being moreof a spotlight shined on the
interpersonal side of it, right,like you're trying to figure
out what type of person they areas well in that environment.
Do you?

(55:51):
Do you look for that?
Is there a checkbox or is therea?
Is there a?

Speaker 1 (55:55):
way that you evaluate .
Yeah, yeah, you know a lot ofpeople say, well, you interview
the player.
You know we all interview theplayers that we want to draft
and that's just the way thescouting world works and pro
hockey and all pro sportsprobably.
But you know I tend to do alittle bit more digging.
You know around and you knowyou can talk to kids' billets.
They'll probably say all theright things.

(56:15):
You know kids billets.
They'll probably say all theright things.
You know, um, knowing kids fromaround halifax that play on
teams.
Sometimes you ask you know youpoke and prod at different
things.
You know trainers and so forth.
Um, first of all, you have tolike them on the ice and if you
like a guy that's tenacious andpart of liking a guy is, you
know, you see a bit of amaturity there at times.

(56:35):
Not saying all of them, there'ssome kids that you know I've
liked, I know that are immatureand they just need time to grow
mentally and physically, butthey're, you know, a lot of
times you're drawn to those guysthat give consistent efforts
and so forth.
They're good teammates and and,being honest, yeah, I've I've
liked a player well enough todraft him, but I've.
I've been skeptical of hisattitude or him as a teammate

(56:59):
and so forth, and opted that itwasn't worth the risk.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Right.
Has that ever shown up as being?
I shouldn't say ever.
I know it has.
But how do we combine those twosides from a scouting capacity
and how relevant do you think itis, like the personal side of
the hockey player, to become anNHL pro?
Like, how dialed does that needto be, in your opinion, to make

(57:23):
it happen?

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Well, I think it's hard.
I think you know you take yourviews, you take all the comments
that have been made, you talkto him.
You know as much as you can.
You know what I mean.
You have to be professionalabout it.
You know as much as you can.
You know I mean, you know youhave to be professional about it
.
But and I guess sometimes youknow it's and I'm learning as a
scout but sometimes you have toput all those things in and
swish them around and see how ittastes, and you know, sometimes

(57:48):
you're giving up one thing totake another.
But you know, there's not toooften there's the perfect kid
out there and uh, and again.
A lot of times I reflect backto you know, I thought I in
hindsight I thought I was quiteimmature and made some poor
decisions and and when I wasyounger and I know that I

(58:09):
learned from those and you knowI tried to make myself better a
person about it, but and abetter but it was a little bit
late.
But, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's.
There's no recipe for it,really, it's just you just get a
feeling, you know, and that's,that's about as much as I can

(58:29):
say, especially when you'remixing in their personality as
well.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yeah, yeah, I, I when like the like the development
work that I do, I do a lot of onice development work, but I
also do a lot of like mindsetwork and a lot of personal
development work, and I, and Ithink that those are skills too
and and to your point we talkedabout in your own career like,
there's a lot of opportunitybetween the whistles outside of
the game, you know, with withsome of the choices we're making

(58:52):
, how we're choosing to spendour time, that really make a big
difference in the hockey playerthat we've become and who we
are in the locker room and thesetypes of things.
And uh, and I just think that,uh, that boy, you know, when
we're talking about being a pro,uh, most guys get there around
23, 22, 23, 24, right, likethere's, there's some oats that

(59:15):
need to be sown there, right,and there needs to be a passion
for the game, there needs to bean approach that happens Like
it's definitely a marathon, nota race, and if we only think
about the hockey optics, I thinkthat we're missing a big piece
of that puzzle to actually getto where a lot of these guys
want to get to.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yeah, I always go back your intestinal fortitude
and that tenaciousness.
And you have to eat, sleep anddrink hockey.
You know, and you know every Iget a kick at every kid that
gets an interview what do youlike to do?
And you know, kid says I loveto train.
You know, and you know he's sixfoot two and 175 pounds.
You know like well, you'regoing to have to do more.

(59:54):
You know, and I think some kidsthink they're working hard.
And you know, I think some kidsneed that first camp sometimes.
But you know, if they're not,if they don't get drafted, then
they don't even get a chance togo.
So there's constant pressureand you know life's not fair.
Some kids there probably weregood enough to make the National
Hockey League and were at ahigher level than they did, but,
you know, because they couldn'tfind that intestinal fortitude

(01:00:16):
then and maybe they could do itnow, but it's too late.
So you know, you really do needto seize the moment, and that's
where it comes in really handyto have good people around you.
You know, you see some thingsthat are silly, but anybody
that's not in your corner andnot telling you the right things
to do and allowing you to dothe wrong things, you've got to

(01:00:37):
decide who's your friends andcut bait on the people that
aren't there telling you to dothe right things, and I think
every kid's made that mistake.
But, uh, you know birds of afeather.
So I said, you know, get in theright flock.
And you know, even if you don'tlike it, you know and that you
know I actually certainly kindof did sometimes.
You know I, I actually certainlykind of did sometimes.
You know, in the summer, youknow, god, that those guys have

(01:01:05):
awful training hours, or youknow they're this or that.
But you, you know, if you'rewriting your own script, you
know what's the best place to go.
That's going to be the hardestfor me.
That's when you're going to bemore enjoyable.
Well, you know road lesstraveled is, it's probably the
best way to go yeah, nice,insight there, insight there,
the uh, yeah, those choicesmatter.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
I talk about building it and your team, right, you're
in a circle like who?
Who are your mentors, who areyour influencers?
And really, I mean that's oneof the few choices you get to
make as a, as a hockey player,technically, right, like there's
only so many things that are inyour control, um, and if you
can, if you can control some ofthose things as far as who your
influencers are, that's a bigone.
I mean, you talked aboutstepping into camp.

(01:01:39):
I remember when we're dealingwith standards, right, and
that's the thing that I try andtalk to my players about
Standards, standards, standardsLike what are your personal
standards and where do they needto get to?
Are they supporting what it isthat you want to do?
And sometimes you don't know,like you think your standards
are super high, like you said,because you've never been
exposed to what, you know rodbrindamore does on a daily basis
at 65, right, it's probablymore than a lot of these 18 year

(01:02:01):
olds are doing.
Right, to think they're goingto be pro hockey players, you
know.
So it's like when you see thatin action and you get to go to
these places where the best ofthe best are and watch how they
operate on a daily basis.
All of a sudden it's like yourmind's blown, because it's like,
well geez, I thought I wasreally putting in the work, but
this isn't even I'm not evenclose Right.
So, like, how do we level upbefore we need to level up or

(01:02:24):
have already lost theopportunity to level up?
Like almost trying to get onestep ahead of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
It's, it's hard and they're they're asking an awful
lot at the age that they'reasking.
But that's what makes you elite, that mental toughness, the
ability to make the rightdecisions.
And you know, I think that youknow, if I could get into the
whole conversation, you know mymom and dad were really strict
with me and that was thatmight've been the reason I

(01:02:51):
finally got off the leash.
But you know, I know that someparents, a lot of, they're
trying to.
You know it's a lot of splitfamilies now and so forth, and
everybody's kind of trying to bethe better mom or dad and
sometimes that goes to spoilingthem.
And you know it's not.
And I, you know, even with myown son, and he hasn't you know,
he hasn't made it yet, he's inColorado in the American league

(01:03:12):
had a few games up.
You, you had a few games up.
You know I can just remembersaying to him you know, the
truth comes out, man, the truthcomes out.
So if you're not going to dosomething every day, you're
going to make decisions.
You know.
So I always used to tell themwrite your script.
It makes it a lot easier.
You know, if you're going awayon the weekend, write your.
Write your script of the thingsyou're not going to do.
You know and what decisionsyou're going to make and live up

(01:03:33):
to it.
But sometimes you know, kidsget on the spot and they make
mistakes and and so forth butyou know it comes at such a
young age making good decisions.
You know french fries orbroccoli.
It sounds so trivial but youknow it really is.
And when you get kids thinkingof, you know how do I get better
all the time, and that's youknow they have goals and so

(01:03:55):
forth and they're willing tomake those the right decisions.
You know a lot.
There can be a lot accomplishedthere, but I find that there's
a lot of kids now that don'ttake the easy way out and it
certainly makes it easy toseparate the guys to look for
the hard road and the one that'smore progressive.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Yeah, and it's not about being perfect, like that's
the thing, like mean youmentioned, like not living a
perfect or making all the rightchoices.
I sure know I never did tooright and I don't.
I don't think that that shouldbe the expectation on these
young players.
Part of being young is likemaking a stupid decision so you
can learn that it was a stupiddecision, you know like, but how
, how can we, how can we balancethese kind of these opposite

(01:04:38):
forces?
Because I think it is unfair inthis day and age, with the you
know the social media aspect andlike the way that everything
can be magnified, that we'rereally putting these kids in a
position where it's stressfulfor them, right, because any
wrong little choice can become abigger thing than it is.
So I don't know, there's noperfect scenario there.

(01:05:00):
We want to make the bestchoices we can.
There's also an environment ofbeing young and risk-taking and
figuring out where you do lie.
That, I think, is a naturalpart of the maturing process.
But I think I mean, yeah, ifyou have your North Star, right,
if you can have that North Starand whatever that is, if that's
the NHL, if that's being paidto play hockey, if that's an

(01:05:21):
NCAA scholarship and and youknow, right To say what you just
said there, like write your ownscript, like what are the, what
are the things that I need todo to make this happen, what are
the ways that I need to behave,you know, to make this happen,
and and then just do the bestyou can with that right, like
we're not expecting perfection,but I think if we are aligned

(01:05:42):
and you know, and if we arethinking, um, that way, I think
we're going to steer the ship alittle straighter.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Yeah, I remember listening to an old Lou Holtz
and he said you know, when youknow that's what you want to do,
win and it stands for what'simportant now.
And he always said if you askyourself that 20 times a day,
it's pretty hard to make amistake.
You know everything you do.
Should I go home, go my watchTikTok or do my homework?

(01:06:09):
You know the right thing to dohomework.
You know your diet.
You know eat well.
You know write your scriptbefore and say, you know I'm not
.
You know write your scriptbefore and say, you know I'm not
.
You know I might go outsaturday night but I'm not going
out any other night, you know,and I'm going to hold myself to
being in at a certain time.
It's so much easier if you, ifyou already make that commitment
, then then if you're alreadyout somewhere and somebody's,

(01:06:29):
you know, you think I better gohome and you got 20 guys no, no,
no, you know, or other peoplekind of dragging you.
So I think that you know, Ithink there's a lot of value in
parental supervision and, youknow, teaching your kids right
and that's a start there andthen it's just a matter of
whether they can carry on.
But again, that's wheresometimes these people come in

(01:06:52):
that aren't act like yourfriends but they're really not.
They have low standards, theyjust want to have fun and take
the the low road.
And there's there's unique tobe able to stand up to that and
make the hard decision yeah, nogood for you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
It's going to take another short break from the
podcast to talk about the UMH 68and what we are doing in
Manitoba and Saskatchewan forthat matter.
So we joined events the 2012event that was going to run in
Alberta solo side by side withthe Saskatchewan event for 2012
solo.
I decided to move the Albertaplayers in with the Saskatchewan

(01:07:37):
players.
It just turned out that thetiming of the early timing of
the Alberta event, which was May22nd, was just overlapped with
too much spring hockey thatplayers were already committed
to previously to receiving theirinvitation.
So I totally understand playersnot wanting to back out on
their teams that they've alreadypre-committed to, players not
wanting to back out on theirteams that they've already
pre-committed to, and we decidedto shift the strategy and have

(01:08:02):
Alberta join Saskatchewan.
I wanted to make sure that theUMH 68 is what it's supposed to
be, which is a collection of thebest players available.
And, yes, although we wentoutside the box of provincial
only to combine provinces, thatwas way less of a concession
than keeping the best players onthe ice possible.

(01:08:22):
So that's what we've done forSaskatchewan and Alberta in the
2012 component and we arelooking for 2012 defensemen from
those provinces.
They seem to be elusive.
We need solid, capableperformers that are defensemen
from Alberta and Saskatchewan,the goalies and the forwards.

(01:08:43):
We have been able to fill upwith very, very capable players.
I'm super excited about thetalent pool there, but we are
looking for some defensemen.
So if you know defensemen inthat region they're 2012, that
suit the bill and would like toapply through the watch list, by
all means, please do.
We are also doing somethingsimilar in Manitoba, so we are

(01:09:04):
combining the Saskatchewan 2011swith the Manitoba 2011s to
bring an amazing event toBrandon Manitoba.
So, again, we just opened thatup to Saskatchewan Saskatchewan
2011.
So we are looking for you.
Uh, it's been a little bit Iwouldn't say difficult.
Uh, maybe just a little bitlater in the game that we've

(01:09:26):
shifted the gears here, so wemay need some help in you
finding us as much as we findyou.
So if that is the case, if youare somebody from saskatchewan
that's listening, either a coachor a manager or a player or a
parent that has a 2012 playinghigh level hockey and would like
to participate, by all meansmake your application on the
watch list and we will reach outto you for that event in

(01:09:50):
Brandon, manitoba.
Everything is available atupmyhockeycom, as usual
underneath the UMH 68 showcase,which is really exciting, and
just another reminder that Iwant you guys to download this
episode.
Press pause and download theepisode if you haven't already.
That's my one request for uh,for the episodes coming up, is
that we can get an accurateaccount of who is actually

(01:10:11):
listening to the pod.
Thanks again.
Now let's get back to theconversation with Trevor
Steinberg.
I actually saw someone fromSeattle the other day cracking
on social media.
They were interviewed on apodcast and I wish I remember
who it was.
But they talked about actuallylike the development sort of

(01:10:32):
philosophy in Seattle, sayingthat when they draft somebody,
they're actually like they'redrafting that 18 year old to
play games at 24.
Like, that's the hope that youwill be good enough in six years
to play hockey games in the NHLand so like it takes the onus
off of like how great yourweekend was or wasn't.
Right, trying to get into thislong term, thinking about

(01:10:55):
development and where you needto get to Now is a freaking
lifetime for most players.
Right, like that's.
Like that's, that'sincomprehensible length of time,
because we want to be on thepower play now and we want to be
in the nhl tomorrow and youknow I mean all these things
that.
Can you?
Can you talk about thatperspective a little bit like
maybe from your perspective as ascout, like trying to project

(01:11:15):
guys six years down the road, oreven maybe from the player
mindset of like, how do we justfall in love with the sport and
the development process and howthat can be beneficial?

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Well, I give I give, uh, you know, ron and everybody
credit.
You don't take a guy like Shaneright.
You know he struggled, youknow's taken a couple years, but
you know he's starting toreally play.

(01:11:44):
Well, he's starting.
I think he's got 20 goalsalmost now.
You know, you got to believe inthe process, um, and I I think
more and more teams are doingthat, but that's certainly the
staple of what we're trying todo.
You know, I sometimes wonder,gee, why don't we call that guy
up, you know, or something?
And then I go okay, easy, stayin your lane, trev, like these
guys are doing an unbelievablejob.

(01:12:05):
You know Jeff Tambolini andthose guys, they really do Like.
I've seen some of the.
You know the feedback that theygive us on the players and some
of the players I haven't evenmet.
You just track them inCoachella and it's incredible.
Yeah, you're right, one badweekend, it's acceptable.
A good weekend is great, butit's staying with the big

(01:12:28):
picture and that's what it is.
It's that.
Just don't look at it tooclosely.
You're getting better.
You've got to believe in theprocess and I think they're
doing a great job developingquite a few players that's
awesome, you must.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
You must develop some type of an attachment to the
guys that you scout and thenlike, get drafted, you know.
But then it is sort of ahanding off process you've done
your job, now it's up to thedevelopment team to see where
they go.
But uh, do you find yourselfrooting for guys after you've
drafted them and tracking themand seeing what they're up to?

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
I'd be lying if I said I didn't.
There's no question I mean I'llbe.
I'll be honest.
It was my first year.
I was iffy on a kid and and, uh, my mike dawson's one of my
ex-players, that he's.
He's been with seattle for awhile now and he's been scouting
for 20 years.
He just said, you know, quit,quit thinking about it.
You like this kid?

(01:13:17):
I said, yes, I do, and hebacked me and we took Jacob
Melanson, number 63, for, uh,he's in Coachella, but you know,
that kid has just buried hisnose.
He's a, you know, if you wantto lay it out, he's a very
physical player.
You know he's out there to toput a herd on and, and you know,
he scored 50 goals in thequebec league is last year.

(01:13:39):
But he's, you know, more of afeared fourth line energy guy
that's lethal out there.
And he's from a small town,amherst, nova scotia.
And yeah, I probably shed atear when he got drafted and he
played his first nhl game thisyear.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Um yeah, you can't help but root for them for sure,
yeah he's it's exciting and youknow there's a pride factor
there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
You know I it's not like I was the only guy you know
I sent my information back andyou know that the crossover guys
looked at him and they took achance on him and you know I'm
yeah, I feel awesome about it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
That's cool, so maybe we should talk about that.
I think people are probablyinterested and don't really know
how it works.
So you, you cover the Quebecmajor league.
So you're an amateur scout, bythe way everybody listening and
so an amateur scout is somebodythat scouts the junior players
that are ready for the draft.
There's also a whole proscouting section for most teams
that actually scout pro hockeyand guys that are in pro hockey
for whether they want to be freeagent signings or whether

(01:14:37):
there's going to be trades.
The GM will look at the proscouts reports and and who they
want and who they want to target.
So Trevor's doing the amateurside, which is like the 17 year
olds, and he's covering theQuebec, the Quebec league.
Now, in saying that, here'swhere my question comes how do
you know what you're looking atis better, worse?
The same as somebody in the WHLor the OHL or the USHL, and

(01:15:00):
that's where the crossover guyscome in, I believe.
But can you maybe walk usthrough that process of working
on?

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
the.
Yeah, I've always kind of saidI'll have no comparables.
When you start putting yourname to a player and I say this
in my interviews I say, buddy,when you go to camp you're
putting on a seattle crack andpractice jersey, game, jersey,
whatever, and I look great kid,I said I'll be honest, this
might be selfish, arrogant.

(01:15:26):
I don't think of you as doingthat.
I think my name is plasteredall over your back.
So when you go out there, areyou going to answer the bell?
Are you going to compete?
Are you going to show up andnot be in the bottom half of the
testing?
Again, it's hard for a kid butyou've got to go out of your way
to live up to your billing andso forth, like that or what

(01:15:50):
someone believes in you.
So if that answers it a littlebit, yeah, then I kind of forgot
the rest of the question.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
No, I'm just saying so.
You have your guys, which youtake pride in, right?
So when you put them on thetable, then it goes to the
crossover guys that are nowgoing to validate your
selections from the QuebecLeague.
Who you think is draftablethere?

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Yeah, and my first year, other than say Mike Dawson
, I wasn't about to go scream onthe mountain and cause a
disturbance about a guy, wherenow I'm a little bit more
willing to.
You know, during the years,when you see something you like
in a player, I just immediatelyjust make sure that they see
that and I put them on my list.
And you know, the kid can go upor down on my list anytime and

(01:16:33):
so forth.
But at the end of the day, yeah, I don't necessarily have
comparables but they always sayjust rate what you see.
You know crossover guys willfigure that out along with your
help.
And you know, review game tapeand come and see the players.
And we have meetings every twoweeks.
You know I think it'sincredible how often and how

(01:16:57):
current we are with our list andso forth.
So it's nice to work with again.
You know kind of a demandingbut I think very professional
program and bunch of people toto keep up to date with that
because it's easy to cancelmeetings and move on.
But you know I think they havethem every week.
But you know the I think theyhave them every week, but you
know the North Americans havethem every second week and

(01:17:19):
they're very helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Is there a Seattle Kraken prototype player Like
does the direction come downfrom Francis?
As being like this is what wevalue as an organization.
You know, per se I don't know,I mean offense per se, skating,
perhaps compete Is there a listof what they want and prioritize
, or is that up to you guys toprioritize what you feel is

(01:17:45):
important?

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Good people.
I know that there's.
You know the core values really.
You know we have to like theplayer, but you know there's a
lot of players that have youknow before and during their
draft year that have taken.
But you know there's a lot ofplayers that have you know
before and during in their draftyear that have taken, you know,
deserved criticism and theseguys have to evaluate whether
that's something that they wantor not, despite how good the
player is and, um, I do, I thinkthey've done a really good job.

(01:18:09):
When I hear of the comments now, they're made from, from, uh,
from the kids that were drafted,you know, a few years ago even.
They're just great kids, theywork hard and you know, just a
guy like a malanson, you knowhe's, I guess I knew because I
knew where he's from and I knewhis neighbors and I knew other
people.
So you know the homework wasdone that way.

(01:18:30):
This guy's an incredible kidoff the ice.
He works with special needskids, he's a good neighbor, he's
a good kid at school.
Short story here I was goingpast going to watch a game in
Moncton and I always stopped atthe big stop there because they
have the turkey noodle soup andso forth, the Irving's, and I

(01:18:50):
stopped and there was this kidthat was just overly polite.
You know, young, young kid.
Probably looked like he was 18or 19.
And I just commented.
I said man, you know, young,young kid probably looked like
he was 18 or 19.
And I just commented, I saidman, you're breath of fresh air.
And we got talking and he said,yeah, I'm putting myself
through school here and so forth.
And he mentioned he was golfingand I don't know how?
but Jacob's name came up and Isaid are you serious?

(01:19:13):
I said how good a golfer is he?
And he goes.
He hadn't played all winter,obviously, and he came in here
and won the club championshipand I kept asking you, do you
know him?
I said yeah.
I said I'm part of the reasonwe drafted him.
I scout for seattle and it waswell the pressure for us there
when this kid was saying thisguy's awesome, he's the nicest

(01:19:34):
kid ever.
You'd never know, even play asport.
You know he's just a good guy,you know.
So all of those things kind ofcombined, yeah, it's a.
It's a it's a really interestingprocess through the whole whole
bit.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Yeah I love it.
Well, and that's the thing Iwas talking about earlier at the
beginning of our discussion is,like, when you were talking
about mark, right, like that,there was a guy that, whatever
he was doing, however, he showedup, you you were, the energy
was there and you were rootingfor him.
Right, like you, you want togive people a reason to root for
you, right, and I, and I thinkthat that goes when you combine

(01:20:09):
that personal aspect of it and,and especially in a locker room,
and I mean, even, like you know, I brought up Bedard and again
he's he's young, but like in thelocker room, if we want to have
a group of guys that are goingto go fight for wins together,
right, you want guys that arerooting for each other.
Right, you guys want guys thatare, like, supporting each other
and that you have his backbecause you respect him and what

(01:20:30):
he does.
And I think, like, like, what agreat thing that seattle is
looking for is because when youdo have an organization full of
culture, guys like it's going towork out at some point, because
those guys are going to getbetter too.
Right, like, those guys getbetter, they, they reach their
developmental ceiling quickerthan somebody who's who's not
wired that way.
So I love hearing that from you.
I think that's great.
Um, it's a great message to thekids.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
I have a kind of a neat story.
We uh late Ron LaPointe was ourcoach.
He got brought in my secondyear in Fredericton and it was
kind of funny because my tworoommates we lived there was a
lady that was an older lady thatwas going to go to Florida but

(01:21:14):
she had to stay two weeks and sono big deal.
But my two roommates so won'tname them we all went out after
the game, all of us thatmight've been the first time I
came home early.
I came home she was still awake, you know, and I was probably
giggling a little bit and soforth, but we had a good chat
and Ron was really hands-on, hehelped us get these places and

(01:21:37):
so forth.
So the older lady that ownedthe house said boy that, that
Trevor, he's got a character helikes, he likes going out.
And I got to the rink the nextday and Ron gone, I slipped and
fell into a net.
He goes.
Well, if you weren't outdrinking all night, you know,
you wouldn't have been like that.
And what the hell's?
He all over me, it just, andthen it just sparked, he just,

(01:22:00):
it was like he hated me and Iwork and I was doing everything
I could do and so forth likethat.
I remember when you know,during this whole time here, he,
we were in Adirondack and I wasin riding the bike before
practice and he came in, well,everybody else had gone out that
night I'm sitting here ridingthe bike and I and he came in.
Well, everybody else had goneout that night.
I'm sitting here riding thebike and I'd taken a bad penalty

(01:22:22):
the night before, a player cameat me I can't remember his name
and I put my stick upimmediately and okay, I got, you
know, cross-checking and soforth, and then we ended up
getting in a fight and so far Igot the extra two.
They scored, I don't think anyharm was done in the game.
But that morning I got in thereand ron started just giving it
to me again, like I just want.

(01:22:43):
At one point I said ron, Idon't know what else I can do.
I said I'm fighting every game.
I'm killing myself here.
I said I know I'm not gettingcalled up, but I'm doing my best
to get in the lineup here.
And he goes you're damn right,you're not going to get called
up, he said.
I think he said the plane wouldhave to go down before you got

(01:23:04):
called up.
He sends me one-on-one likeangry and we got back, uh, to
frederickton and two like twoweeks later, uh, andre for
Savard got fired.
Ron, the point went up.
And two weeks later he calledme up.

(01:23:25):
Yeah, so I don't know what hewas doing Now.
His, his, his wife actuallysaid that he was, you, were one
of his favorite guys, and I said, well, you have a hell of a way
of displaying it.
But I think, you know, I I don'tknow if he just saw something
or just said, you know, if I gotto treat this guy like this to

(01:23:45):
keep him working hard, I don'tknow.
But he, you know, he put methrough all of that.
And then, you know, I wasbasically his first call up and
it was kind of crazy.
And the next year I actuallyplayed the full year in quebec.
But yeah, that'll tell you alittle bit about what was going
through my head.
You know, sometimes I wasprobably a little bit aggressive

(01:24:05):
as a coach.
But you know, when I look atwhat coaches, when coaches got
things from me, it was usuallyout of aggression, you know, and
hostility, that kind of worked.
So I apologize to my 23 yearsof players if that was the wrong
route to go.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
Well, that's the beauty I think you know, like
some guys do respond to it andsome guys don't, I guess, Right,
and it's like in this day andage, as a coach, it is trying to
manage those differentpersonalities and how do we get
the best out of them.
Right, and it's probably not aone brush for everybody approach
, but yeah, but I think theamazing message there is, like
you just really never know, youcan assume you know as a player,

(01:24:42):
right, like there he is tellingyou the plane has to go down
before you're going to getcalled up and then all of a
sudden he's calling you up whenhe has the job.
It's like crazy, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
All you can do is put your best foot forward every
day.
And that sounds really easy.
It's not, it's not.
And that sounds really easy.
It's not, it's not.
You know you've got to go inthere and be a good teammate.
You've got to go in there.
You know you feel you shouldsupport your teammates when
they're having a tough time,when they're out of the lineup.
And you're in the lineup.
You know it's really hard to goin and get the full scope of
what it is to be a good teammate.

(01:25:15):
And later in my career I startedrealizing all this.
I started realizing all thisand once you start realizing it,
it's incredible how much youtake in.
You know you look around thedressing room and you can say
those two guys they're onsuicide watch, they're so upset,
you know, and different thingsabout other guys.
So yeah, you've got to pressdifferent buttons with guys and

(01:25:38):
you know that's why there aresome great coaches out there
that have success is becausethey just know how to handle the
superstars and the the otherguys.
Because you never know again.
Mental, you know mental healthor whether it's you know.
I'm not suggesting guys in therehaving, you know, mental health
problems, but I think everybodydoes, in a certain way, have
things that just don't bring thebest out of them and certain
things that do yeah, I agree, Icall it when I'm working with

(01:26:00):
players.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
I call like mental fitness is the term that I've
used right, it's like to try andgive yourself the best
opportunity to have the bestmental health, right?
So, like what is your approachto adversity?
What is your natural reaction?
What is your belief system?
What is your day to day habits?
Look like you know these typesof questions I'll ask to produce

(01:26:22):
, hopefully, a more resilientperson that is more better
equipped to handle what's goingto come at you.
You know, I mean in a pro hockeyenvironment or in life for that
matter, there's no perfectsolution and it's a very
imperfect science, but it issomething that I strongly
believe in is that the morewell-equipped we are, the more
we're able to handle.
Now, that doesn't mean it's youknow it's a you know it's a win

(01:26:46):
lose scenario, right, likeeveryone's going to have their
moments where you know, wherethey need some time or they need
some additional help.
You actually mentioned beforethe call that there was a period
of time in your career whereyou had to step up, step away
for a little bit to to get somesupport.
Can you walk us through whatthat was, what that time was
like for you and what you weregoing through.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Yeah, I think it was just a combination of.
You know, I just put so muchhope I was going to say so much
effort and things into winning,but you know you can't be into.
Probably you've got to be infor the wins, but there's got to
be a balance.
You know I can remember.
You know, even if I was 5-0,I'd be scared.

(01:27:23):
Oh god, we're gonna go on alosing streak if we lost one.
You know, if we're oh and five,well, oh god, you know I'm, I
don't even want to face thepublic and you know I'm, I'm a
failure type thing.
And so when you're back andforth between all of that, you
know you're trying to to manageall these guys and sometimes you
say you know you don't know ifyou're doing it right, I I can't

(01:27:44):
really tell you, but I rememberjust waking up and I just god,
I just my stomach was felt likeit rotted right out.
And then I was looking in themirror on everything.
I was blaming myself foreverything.
You know, at least I wasn'tblaming others.
I was looking to say what'swrong with me.
Um, I needed the time off, butyou know, at least I wasn't
blaming others.
I was looking to say what'swrong with me?
I needed the time off, but youknow it was probably different.

(01:28:04):
There's a guy named came withus with St Mary's, named Ronna
Barbanel, and he's the chaplainat the school and you know he
was able to kind of, you know,tear the layers off.
You wake up, you know.
You used to wake up withanxiety, wonder why you had it,

(01:28:25):
and then I, you know, I used topeel it back Like, you know,
this is good, this is good, thisis good, this is good.
And then you realize, okay,well, what am I stressed out
about?

(01:28:45):
But you know, I guess, sinceI've started scouting, and
certainly after I took that timeoff and it was kind of funny
because the best year I, themost enjoyable year I had, was
my last year.
We went to the nationals, wehosted and we won our first game
and then covid canceled thetournament.
And it was kind of funnybecause I said I, you know, I
think I knew it was my last yearmost of the year, so I didn't
have the worries and I think Iwas able to be a better person

(01:29:07):
and a better coach to the guyswere the year before and in the
past I was, you know, pedal onthe gas the whole time.
You know you being veryaggressive to get guys to do
things, and I can remember oneof my one of my players actually
moved down the road from me,mark Trickett.
We get a giggle at it becausehe's probably my best, one of my
best friends now.
But you know I remember talkingto him and he said holy geez

(01:29:31):
man, you know you blew up thatroom a couple of times, wow, you
know.
And he said, but you apologize.
And I said I just remember somany times driving home after a
game win or lose, man, I waslike sure I gotta call that guy.
Call the guy and say look, I'mreally sorry, I apologize to you
in front of the team tomorrow.
You know I think they wereprobably hating my guts in the

(01:29:52):
car, but it's amazing what justreopening those communication
lines will do and letting theguy know look that little
mistake didn't lose us the game.
You know, I just neededsomething at the moment to pin
it on.
You were my target.
You know what I mean and youknow, and I try to tell that to
my own son too.
Don't always, you know, don'talways think your coaches mean

(01:30:15):
everything they say.
These guys are in it.
There's pressure on them too.
But yeah, that's that.
Last year was probably mostenjoyable.
It was probably because I wasso much more dialed down all
right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Yeah, that's great.
Uh, well, you've been anawesome.
You've been an awesome guest.
I really appreciate coming ontoday.
Is there any last words ofadvice or wisdom you want to
give to the uh, you know, thisdraft class or others to come uh
to, to be able to put theirbest foot forward for you if
they get the opportunity?

Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
Well, I would just say set your goals and make good
decisions.
You've got to want those goalsand you've got to really say no
to things that are prettyattractive in life to get to
your goals.
And even that's not going tonecessarily get you there, but
that's what's.
That's what it takes to getthere.

(01:31:06):
And I guess the other side ofit I guess is, if you work that
hard to get to the NHL and younever do make it but you really
pour your heart and soul into itin every way, you're going to
live a good life because you're.
You've got standards, moralsand work ethic, tenacity and you
know you're probably good atbeing a good team guy.

(01:31:27):
So that's what I say to my guysyou know the silver bullet, your
silver lining here, guys, youmay not make it to the NHL, but
the work habits and stuff, andI've got guys that were crushed
that they never got a chance toplay, but now they're making a
hell of a lot more money than Iam, have two or three kids,

(01:31:48):
they're living a great life.
So all of this is not fornothing.
You know you're betteringyourself by having these
high-end goals and don'tconsider it a failure.
Can consider it kind of alesson.
Yeah, you know, there's more tolife than a hockey team I love
that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
Yeah, I love that there's uh, did I say that yeah,
I know even though, even thoughit is, it is kind of both our
lives.
Still, it's just like.
I totally get what you'resaying, though, and obviously
that's hard for a 15 year old ora 16 year old or a 17 year old
to to fathom.
They're not thinking about whatlife is like at 35, but the
truth is so accurate in what youjust said there, because

(01:32:21):
everything about being a highperformer takes traits and
standards that a lot of peopledon't have, right and and
learning what that is like.
That just becomes a part of whoyou are, so it transfers into
whatever else it is, and there'snothing to be disappointed
about giving your best effort atsomething ever Right, like
that's a habit too, too.
I think I totally think that'sa habit, like, if you approach

(01:32:44):
things on a day-to-day basis,that this is going to get my
best effort and my bestintention whether it be your
relationship, whether it bemaking breakfast, whether it be
your workout right.
That's going to translate andsomebody's going to appreciate
that, and you're going toprovide value somewhere 100 and
that's why you know it's justinvesting in yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
And you know I could have cursed hockey.
You know when I come up withevery reason why.
But you know I ended up after Iplayed I coached.
After I coached I got to scout.
Hockey's been probably betterfor me than I have been yet, but
I'm I'm pretty appreciative ofthe people that I've met in it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
And again, you know, you hear a lot of crap out there
about players.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
But you know there's this very thick lining of
positivity in hockey playersthat I think people don't see.
They just want to bring up thebad stuff.
But my son's playing hockeyright now.
My daughter was in volleyballand you know any sport.
I'm a huge fan of just the, theway you have to conduct

(01:33:44):
yourself and the process ofwinning and losing and adjusting
to it and being able to acceptit.
You know I'm I'm a big fan ofsport, but certainly hockey I
love it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:54):
Well, trevor, thanks so much for for being with us
today.
Um, like I said, you're a greatguest and continue doing what
you're doing.
I know, I know you're pouringyour heart and soul into the
Kraken and to hockey.
I think that your presence heretoday has helped grow that
passion for others.
Much appreciative.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
Jason, it's been a pleasure man.
It really has been Keep Alexunder wraps there, eh.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Will do.
Thank you for being here tillthe end.
Again, apologies for the delayin a new episode.
I hope you enjoyed theconversation with Trevor.
If you haven't already, pleasedownload the episode and
continue to download the episode.
Just put them.
I think you can subscribe tothem and they will download

(01:34:39):
automatically.
When they come out, I willshare the details with you of
how much the numbers increaseand, yeah, that'll be exciting.
It's a great way to support thepodcast without having to pay
any money, without having to doanything at all other than press
a button.
I thank you for it and, yeah, Iwill share the analytics to
come.
Until next time, play hard andkeep your head up.

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EP. 154 - Trevor Stienburg - The Kraken's Eye: A Scouts Perspective

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP. 154 - Trevor Stienburg - The Kraken's Eye: A Scouts Perspective