EP.140 - Brandon Convery: Navigating the Highs and Lows of a Professional Hockey Career - Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Once you get drafted.
As you know, there's a lot ofgreat players.
I mean, in Toronto, you know,gilmore was there, matt Sundin
was there, there was a lot of,you know, pretty good players
that were in my position atcenter that did things that I
did as good as I did or better.
You know what I mean, and soit's not always on your time and

(00:22):
that's what you have to realize.
It's not always on your timeand that's what you have to
realize.
It's just relaxing.
Keep working, stay positive,stay with it, and your time will
come when it presents itself,or you have to be ready when it
comes.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
That was former eighth overall pick in the 1992
NHL draft to the Toronto MapleLeafs.
Brandon Convery and you arelistening to episode 140 of the
Up my Hockey podcast with JasonPadola.
Welcome to Up my Hockey withJason Padola, where we

(01:03):
deconstruct the NHL journey,discuss what it takes to make it
and have a few laughs along theway.
I'm your host, jason Padolan, a31st overall draft pick who
played 41 NHL games but thoughthe was destined for 1,000.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.

(01:25):
Hello there, welcome back, orwelcome to the Up my Hockey
podcast with Jason Padolan.
I am your host, jason Padolan,here for episode 140, and today
we're going to be speaking withBrandon Convery.
He's a former teammate of minein St John's, newfoundland, and
also with Toronto, with the bigclub and with the Maple Leafs.

(01:48):
We played together for about aseason and a half and Brandon's
story is awesome.
It's been a long time sinceI've wanted to have him on, and
by awesome I mean he's just theperfect guest for my program.
With what we discuss here playerdevelopment and the path for

(02:10):
every player is different.
The recipe card for everyplayer is different.
The challenges that we face andthe circumstances that are put
in front of us are all uniqueand sometimes they are
surprising.
And for Brandon, he was a starfrom the get-go, was a star

(02:32):
through minor hockey, was a starin the WHL I mean, sorry, ohl
and was an eighth overall draftpick and was one of the three
players considered for the firstoverall spot by the Tampa Bay
Lightning that year.
He was flown in with two otherplayers for an entire week to be
evaluated.

(02:52):
He ended up going eighth toToronto and, at the end of the
day, brandon ended up playing70-some games, I believe, in the
NHL.
What was it?
72.
72 games for three differentteams.
He played for the Maple Leafs,he played for the Canucks and he
played for the Los AngelesKings.
And the question is and we talkabout it is like why?

(03:16):
So what happened?
Why was he unable to make acareer, an NHL career, out of
his hockey?
And that's the million-dollarquestion, right?
That's the answer we're lookingfor when we're trying to help
our players get to where theywant to go, and we want to help

(03:36):
them be the best that they canbe and set them up for the most
success possible.
There is things that happen,sometimes within our control and
sometimes without our control.
And for Brandon one, we gotalong real well.
He was my centerman for themost of the time that he was
there and, uh, and whatever, weshared the same like, like,

(03:56):
sense of humor.
Uh, we really liked ripping oneach other and there was always,
you know, there was always thathumor in the in the locker room
and we were colleagues in thesense I mean, everyone in the
minors is wanting to get to theNHL, but we were two of the top
prospects with the Maple Leafsat the time and we shared, I
guess, equally in thefrustration of maybe not being

(04:18):
where we wanted to go.
And, with that being said,there is an impatience around
that and there can also end upbeing a cynicism.
And with Brandon, he talksabout in this interview how he
wished he could go back and howhe wished he could change some
things, just with his patienceright, and with his level of

(04:41):
acceptance of where he was andnot being in a rush to be where
he thought that he should be.
That is much easier said thandone.
Brandon also went on after hiscareer was over.
He went to have a successfulcareer in the Swiss League after
he left North America, won achampionship there, but he was
so compelled by his own journeythat he wanted to help athletes
very similar to what I'm doingnow.

(05:01):
He had a stable of individualthat he wanted to help athletes
very similar to what I'm doingnow.
He had a.
He had a stable of individualathletes that he would help, uh,
when it comes to mindset andpersonal development and uh, and
he would also coach some of hisown teams there in California
and uh, he has now gotten awayfrom that and he and he's into
uh, insurance, uh, you know, inthe business world.
But he was, he was obviouslycompelled and he was pushed

(05:25):
forward in the sense of likethis is an issue, like the
support available for players isan issue, it needs to be talked
about and there needs to be athird party that's that's
available for athletes to helpthem through whatever adversity
or challenges that might exist.
And so Brandon and I and wedidn't beat up on the on the
Toronto Maple Leafs here at all,obviously it would probably

(05:46):
sound like sour grapes anywaysUh, but the, the communication
in Toronto at the time and theplayer development in Toronto at
the time, what was notnecessarily very good.
I mean, I can say that honestlyuh, neither Brandon nor I
really knew what we weresupposed to be trying to do.
You know what, where we neededto develop, there wasn't much
communication.

(06:06):
When we brought it got broughtup about how, what we were
supposed to do as a role or whatwe were supposed to, how we
were supposed to play, and, andwith that lack of communication,
you know, there there was theseunanswered questions which
which leads to, you know,uncertainty, which leads
toecision and which leads tokind of lack of enjoyment for

(06:30):
lack of a better word with thegame and not really knowing
where you stand within theorganization.
And so Brandon talks about hisdesire to want to be an NHLer
and doing all the right thingsreally in the minors to warrant
that opportunity.
And even his stat line with theNHL as a young guy was pretty

(06:53):
darn good.
I mean, his first taste ofaction in the NHL was in 95-96.
He got called up from St John'swhere he was almost a point a
game in St John's, and he gotcalled up.
He had 11 games, he had 5 goalsand 2 assists.
You do the math on that, that'sgoing to be close to a 30-40

(07:14):
goal season if he played thefull season there.
So obviously shows signs thathe was able to play.
And then the next year, when hegot brought up again was the one
that we talk about he ended uphaving two goals, eight assists.
It sounds like an unlimitedrole.
Sounds like he was a fourthline role that year and was
struggling potentially with icetime and with line mates and to

(07:36):
be the player that he wanted tobe or maybe thought that he
could be.
He ended up getting moved toVancouver, vancouver.
There with Keenan he startedoff the year, looked like, was
doing great.
He thought he didn't reallyknow what he did wrong.
He had nine points in 12 gamesand then was let go and put on
waivers and picked up by LosAngeles and it never really
panned out there.

(07:56):
So you know what was the problem, or was there a problem, and
for Brandon it sounds like itwas just.
You know, misunderstood was aword that he used.
You know that he cared so muchthat sometimes he got in his own
way.
His impatience was somethingthat got in his own way and just
really overthinking the gameand kind of trying too hard to

(08:20):
get to where he wanted to go andit was just a mental battle the
entire time.
So I really enjoy BrandonConvery.
Too hard to get to where hewanted to go and it was just a
mental battle the entire time.
So I really enjoy BrandonConvery.
I've always enjoyed him.
He's a ton of fun, he's a smart, smart cat and he gets it.
And I do find that sometimesthe more intelligent a player

(08:43):
can be obviously this is a broadbrush statement, but they can
like the overthinkers.
Sometimes the high IQ and Imean this in like an intelligent
standpoint, not a high hockeyIQ, but a high IQ person in the
sports world can end up being anoverthinker and the
overthinking is something thatgets themselves in trouble and
we do talk about that a littlebit and I do believe Brandon

(09:04):
fell in that category andsometimes those players like
Brandon who have the mostsuccess with someone like me or
with some type of support inthat aspect to support the
mental side of the game, awayfrom the game, not necessarily
having a problem putting ittogether on the ice, but having
a problem putting it togetheroff the ice.

(09:26):
When it comes to theuncertainties, you know, the
things that aren't in yourcontrol the overthinking of some
of these mechanisms that are inplace.
So, yeah, this was a long timecoming, this interview.
There is some echo in Brandon'soffice.
I gave him hell for it beforewe started, so you're going to
have to deal with a little bit.

(09:46):
I don't think it's unbearableat all, but it's just not clean
audio because he was in anoffice without anything on the
walls and it sounded a littlebit echoey in his headphones.
So my apologies for that, but Ido think it's worth your while
to take a listen, because evenif the dominoes are lining up
for you right now and yourplayer whether it is in minor

(10:09):
hockey or if it is in juniorhockey, geez, just because
something hasn't reared its headwhen it comes to challenges or
adversity or some area where youneed to show some resilience,
it will be coming.
And Brandon talks a lot aboutbuilding your support team,

(10:29):
keeping a tight inner circle,but having the support cast
there which he felt that henever really had.
Those are important and we wantto build the person behind the
hockey player.
So when stuff does happen, weare now prepared to deal with it
.
We feel that we've alreadyestablished a safe relationship
and a comfortable relationshipwith somebody, instead of which

(10:52):
I find a lot of people wait for,like, the bottom of the barrel
moment, and then only then willthey now seek some type of
support.
And that's not the best way todo it, because, geez, we don't
want to get to the bottom of thebarrel in the first place.
And that's not the best way todo it because, geez, we don't
want to get to the bottom of thebarrel in the first place.
And then, when you're trying toestablish a relationship in
that scenario, it's not awesome.
So, yeah, I mean to do yourbest work as a hockey player, do

(11:14):
your best work as a parent.
I think you should establishsome type of connection early,
even when things are going good.
That is really the best way todo it, and establishing the
relationship when things aregoing good are going to help the
player be even better, findmore within themselves, to
become a better player.
And then also, when thingsdon't go their way, there's
already strategies, processes,tools in place, along with the

(11:36):
support mechanism to make itmuch more manageable.
So, without further ado, I willbring you my conversation with
Brandon Convery, a heck of aplayer in his own right,
somebody that bears the label asbeing a draft bust with Toronto
.
Welcome to the club for Brandon, as they didn't do a good job
of developing any of their picks, so either their scouting staff

(11:59):
was terrible or theirdevelopment staff wasn't great,
but either way, I think it's anunfair scenario, because this
guy was a heck of a hockeyplayer, put up lots of numbers
all over the place and, uh, andthere's lots to be learned from
his lesson.
Uh, so here is episode 140 withbrandon converee.
All right, well, holy crap,this has been a long time coming

(12:22):
Four years maybe, maybe more,to get this man.
My former sentiment on thepodcast.
But welcome to the Up my Hockeypodcast, brandon Convery.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Thank you, it's a privilege.
I've been wanting to get onyour show for a long time, but
it's a tough one to nail down.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Oh yeah, I was going to say you sure don't act like
it's a privilege Gee Hunting youdown.
You'd think you're the primeminister or something.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, it's good to speak with you.
Obviously, we haven't talkedmuch over the years, but when we
do, it's like we have justyesterday.
But obviously you're doing somepositive things in the world,
which is great to see.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Well, hey, I wanted you, I mean for multiple reasons
.
One is that you are a hell of aplayer.
Obviously, this show is abouttrying to be a player, you know,
and trying to be the best thatwe can be.
Your story is not too far offof my story, uh so, and we had

(13:30):
the same team in common.
So I mean, I think there's alot of yeah, there's some
commonality there that I thinkis is worth getting into.
And then also you got into kindof what I'm doing there for a
little bit as well and uh, so,yeah, I just think that we can
probably shoot the shit and have, uh, have the shit and have a
pretty good time doing it,catching up.
So I don't know where to.
I really don't know the bestplace to start with it, other

(13:51):
than maybe that entry intojunior.
Like, I want to start just witha little bit of your career and
seeing how that was for you andall the rest of it.
Was the OHL always where youwanted to go?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
and all the rest of it was was the OHL always where
you wanted to go?
Yeah, I think at the time when,um, you know, we were coming up
the NCAA wasn't, you know,obviously I would say probably
the quickest version was goingto the OHL, the fastest route to
Crow, and that was my focus atthe time.
I think, you know, my brotherat the time had a scholarship
offered at ohio state.
Um, he was a couple years older, but you know, it's just, I was

(14:30):
on a fast track and that's whatI wanted to do is to get to the
pros as quick as possible andthat was the best route at that
time right and coming out of, uhon, excuse me, ontario, was
there a team that you wantedlike to play for, or did it
really matter?
no, I mean, I actually I wantedto play for my hometown and

(14:52):
there was an opportunity to beselected and it just didn't work
out and thankfully I did getselected to the sudbury wolves,
which was a a great experienceand, uh, one that I'm glad that
you know.
It worked out that way.
You know, playing in northernOntario is a great atmosphere.
We had some great teams there,I think the first two years, I

(15:16):
think we were rated number one,you know, in the Canadian Hockey
League at the start of the year.
We had some good teams, greatplayers and teammates, so it was
a great time, did you?

Speaker 2 (15:30):
the OHL draft existed , then yeah, yeah, where did you
go?

Speaker 1 (15:34):
on that.
I dropped to the third roundand as an underage.
So I played four years.
I think at that time you had togo in the top three rounds,
right, or you weren't allowed togo as an underage.
Okay, I think there was alittle bit discrepancy whether
or not I was going to go theNCAA route.
So teams, I think, were alittle bit hesitant, but it all

(15:58):
worked out Right right right.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
What do you mean by an underage in that scenario?

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, your regular draft year wasn't until a year
later.
So I think in the WHO right youhave a 15-year-old protection
draft.
You're not, and most of themthey don't play due later.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
That's actually yeah, well, yeah, no, you can't play.
So Landon DuPont was the firstguy ever that got that
exceptional.
No, I think a second, becauseBedard did it too, but you know,
they got drafted as a15-year-old.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
And then now he's playing as a15-year-old.
Everyone else has to wait thatone year to their 16th.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, so I think it was similar to that.
You know you had to be selectedin the first three rounds.
So but yeah, yeah, it was like Isaid, no regrets at all with
that right, but then you playedas the 16 year old yep, not as a
15 year old, no right so thatwas when you had the 26 goals
and 56 games in sudbury, insudbury as a 16, I think, yeah,

(16:58):
my first year, yeah, yeah, yeah,it kind of you know, when I
first got there, like I say, wehad, we had a great roster.
So I remember when I first gotthere I think I was a scratch,
maybe the first couple of gamesthe coach told me hey, go
upstairs and watch, and I waslike wait a minute, and here we
go.
But it's just kind of once Igot in, I got one goal and it's

(17:20):
just my confidence just grew andI kind of took off from there.
Right, yeah, my confidence justgrew and I kind of took off
from there, right?

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, a little while, okay.
So that's actually a cool placeto start, because there's a
couple guys that I'm dealingwith right now just in my own
stable that are going throughsome of that.
You step into this league,right?
The OHL guys I'm working withhere the WHL, ajhl, whatever it
is You've been a good playersomewhere else, of course, right

(17:46):
To step in as a 16-year-old, asa young player, never have you
experienced not being in thelineup or being healthy and
being told that you're not goodenough to be in the lineup.
However, they want to pose thatto you.
That's a pretty big slap in theface for a lot of players, and
how to deal with that.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
How was that for you and how did the coach deal with
it back, you know, 30 years agoyeah, I mean 30 years ago there
wasn't much, you know.
It's like, basically, here'swhat the deal is go upstairs and
watch.
There wasn't any kind ofcoddling or anything like that.
So, um, you know, I was justexcited to be there.
I didn't really get caught upin, I didn't feel I was, you
know, could jump right in and bethat top player like I always
thought, and so maybe it didn'taffect me that much at the start

(18:32):
.
And so it was a positivetransition going from maybe
going in and out of the lineupto being in consistently, and I
just took advantage of thatopportunity.
And you know, maybe it was luckor anything, but I got a couple
goals early on and it justprogressed from there.
But so it can be, uh, you know.

(18:52):
But you know, when I fastforward and look at other
opportunities down the road,maybe four years later I didn't
handle it as well.
So it's kind of it was kind of.
It was kind of.
Uh, you know, looking back, Iwish I kind of was like it was
at 16 years old, when I was 20,uh, when I approached the game
and maybe been a little bitpatient and just relaxed a bit

(19:15):
and uh, watch, learn and stickwith it that junior experience
for a lot of guys.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Well, I mean, obviously you and I both know a
lot of guys don't, I mean, youplay at junior.
That's a pretty goodaccomplishment.
You know a lot of guys want toand and try to do it and a lot
of guys can't and that'ssometimes as far as could be the
end of the road.
But that is a big transition,like at a really really
formative time, right like um,you know you're moving away from
home, you're with billets,you're You're playing with

(19:43):
20-year-olds, 21-year-olds.
You know, like there's a lot ofstuff happening socially,
you're changing schools, like Idon't know.
Just drop back into that spot,like, is that something you know
?
Are you surprised that you wereable to handle it?
Would you let your son ordaughter do something like that
now, if that is?

Speaker 1 (20:00):
No, I mean, I have an 18 year old, a 16 year old, 11
year old right now and I everytime I say to my wife, can you
believe where?
You know we were at this age?
And I try to relate to that andto think that what my parents
were going through when I leftto go of guys there you know,
mike Peckett, glenn Murray,jamie Matthews we had a great

(20:31):
team there with some greatleaders, and I think that's what
you know helped the transitionis that we were all in it, all
in it together and we kind ofgrew up together for two or
three years until we all went onour own way.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Right.
What do you say about the?
What's your opinion on thatplaytime scenario?
So I mean, that's another onethat I get asked a lot, meaning
you know I can potentially playon X team, right, as a younger
player, maybe not getting theminutes that I want, maybe in
and out of the lineup, but I'min this environment.
That's better.
You know practice is better.
Or do I take a step back andmaybe be a bigger role on a

(21:06):
different team?
I know it's tough to do thatone with one brush, but like
what are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (21:11):
on that in general.
I think it's a fine line right.
You got to be careful whoyou're associating yourself with
and the environment that you'rein, but also, I think there's
two parts to it.
I think that you have to bementally strong enough to be
able to handle what's coming,and I think that's the most
important thing, and probablywhat you're you're trying to

(21:33):
help um, you know yourcolleagues and things like that
is having the patience to stickwith it.
If it's not right now, you knowdoing the things that you need
to be doing in order to takeadvantage of that opportunity
when it presents itself.
I think that's the biggest thing, when I look back, is that you
have to be ready, and too manytimes I think that we're where I

(21:56):
was anyway at a higher levelwas focusing on you, thinking
ahead way too much, and you know, I think, that if you only can
control what you can, it's noteasy, though, and it's not easy
to go play, maybe, on a teamthat's less talented.
You don't win as much, but youplay more, so there's a fine

(22:18):
line between that, butultimately it comes back to you.
Know I put the responsibilityon you.
Know myself, as a player, likeyou know, you got to be willing
to do things maybe you're notused to or willing to do in
order to get where you want toget to.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
And um, you know, we've all been through that when
you say that word mindset andlike knowing that you're ready,
because it's interesting,because that it is something
that breaks some players andit's and it's not necessarily
like their own fault and someplayers end up like persevering
through like the really hardtimes and it turns out to be
that best thing for them, right,like being somewhere that was

(22:54):
hard.
How would you gauge the idea ofeither preparing a young
athlete or knowing if they areprepared?
When it comes to the the thatmindset side, it's a good
question.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I mean it's, it's a tough one.
I just think you have to reallymonitor kids on how they carry
themselves and how they go aboutdoing their day-to-day things.
And you know, obviously, listen, I felt I handled it better at
16 than I did at 21.
And you know, again it getsback to is is you know who

(23:27):
you're surrounding yourself with?
Having a great support team, um, and remembering what got you
there.
You know, and I think a lot oftimes when you start getting
overwhelmed and things like that, you got to get back to the
simple things and things thatyou do well and maybe take a
step back in a breath of freshair and say, hey, I'm good,

(23:49):
let's stick with it and keepmoving forward in a positive way
, as opposed to I was just fullforce, you know, wanted to be,
you know, the top, the best inthe best league.
You know, right away, it's just, I think I think I needed
someone to tell me hey, slowdown, brandon, you know you're,
you're okay.
Just keep getting better, weekby week, month by month, and

(24:11):
you'll be in that place soonenough.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Right, yeah, easy message to relay, if anyone is
even going to relay it.
One.
And the second one is yeah, doyou absorb that and digest it
and believe it?
You know, like, I think there'sthere's two problems with that,
although I agree with them.
Right, like, one is the message, and two, do you want to
receive it?
Um, because we're always in arush, right, I mean, I think.

(24:36):
Right, I mean, we believe we'regood players, we're ready to go
, let's go.
Right, like, what are wewaiting for?
Um, but when it comes to that,like 16 to 21,.
You've said that a few timesnow, you know, 16 stepped into
the OHL.
It's obviously a big step,maybe, maybe a few less
expectations, I think might be aword that could use there,
right, so then you deem lesspersonal pressure, you go

(24:57):
through these.
You know your next season wasyour draft year 40, almost had a
goal, a game.
You know you end up goingeighth overall.
Uh, to the toronto maple leafs,like crazy.
I'm sure that must have beenbonkers.
Um, yeah, what was that?
I guess, what was that yearlike?
And what was that experiencelike with?
Well, maybe just the year?
Like did you did with the draftsome?

(25:20):
Some people say, oh, I wasoblivious to it.
Some people I mean some peopleare really tied into it, like
what was that like for you fromthe get-go?

Speaker 1 (25:28):
I mean I wanted to be the number one pick right from
five years old.
That was my goal and so youknow I was on track for that.
I think if you look at my statsin that year, I think I only
played 44 games and I believe ifI had played, you know, the
full regular season, I thinkthey Tampa Bay, had the first

(25:48):
pick overall.
They brought three of us in andinterviewed us for the whole
week, and so I was right therefor that.
But I was, I was content andexcited to go to the Toronto
Maple Leafs I mean, you know,growing up two hours down the
road.
It was a huge honor, you know,and one that you know.

(26:09):
There were some exciting timesand obviously some not so
exciting times where I wish Ihad handled things differently,
but no regrets on that.
That year, my draft year, wasexciting.
There was a lot of things thatwent on I think under 17 was the
year before, under 18 was thatyear so there was a lot of

(26:31):
things that I didn't really getcaught up in.
The draft per se.
It was just an exciting timeand, um, you know, and there was
a lot of good players that Iwas playing with, like Mike
Pecka and myself.
We were line mates my first twoyears, and so there's some
great players.
We had fun and we did well alltogether and, uh, like I said,

(26:54):
the draft was just a result ofhow well we did throughout those
couple years before the draftright you, uh.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
So your things were rolling.
Obviously too, you mean.
So your draft, your things wererolling.
Obviously too, I mean.
So your draft, your things wererolling when you were in the
lineup.
Was there some injury there?

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, I had a hip problem back then when I was
younger and so I missed a fewgames that year, unfortunately.
But you know, that year mighthave been, you know, almost a
goal a game.
I don't know how much more Icould have done.
It was a positive year, a funone.
Broke my ankle, got two handedin the playoffs against Oshawa,

(27:34):
broke my ankle.
I thought we had a good chanceof maybe winning the Memorial
Cup and taking a good run at itand ironically, you know, before
the draft they have, you knowthey bring all the prospects in
and we all do the.
What do you call it the?
you know the testing andeverything I literally had my
cast taken off two days beforethe testing, hadn't ridden a

(27:57):
bike, haven't done anything.
You know we had to go in and dothe VO2 testing and the wind
gate and all that.
I failed that completely.
Uh, but uh, yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
It was quite the experience I fail for everyone
listening who hasn't done thevo2 test.
You can't technically fail it.
You're going to get a number,but it might not have been a
very high number no, I don'tthink mine was that high.
Oh shoot, that's funny.
So anyways, I'm going to gojust a little diversion, because

(28:30):
I just brought up your teamfrom that year, your draft year.
And yeah, glenn Murray, derekArmstrong like NHLers, michael
Peck, you know yourself.
But then interesting,interesting, jamie Matthews, who
led your team in scoring 95points in 64 games, never played
a game of pro hockey in hislife.
That's an interesting story too.
What was the story with him?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
When I got drafted there the year before, I was
told to go watch him.
When he came to Kingston when Iwas 15.
They were talking about thiskid was the next Wayne Gretzky.
He was a very intelligentplayer, player, funny guy from
Nova Scotia, great friends withGlenn Murray, but uh, it just
never panned out.
I think he got selected, maybeto Chicago, but it just it never

(29:16):
went anywhere and it's kind ofhow do you pinpoint why certain
players have worked out andcertain players that didn't?
But he was a great playerthat's wild.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
I know it's so crazy when you see these great players
and you don't see anything,anything about it.
I'm not really sure why.
No, um, so you, I love thatmindset though.
So you said, like you directlysaid, from the time I was five
years old, I wanted to be thefirst overall pick and I, you
know now that you say that, Ithink that I mean I could
probably relate to that too.
Uh, so when you, when you'reliving that and now you're in

(29:50):
that, you know I mean you're inthe right league to make that
happen, you're on the right teamto make that happen, you're
playing, uh, the type of gamethat is like you're, you're
essentially it's coming trueright, like it's a reality that
this, that this is something.
Where does something like thatin your opinion?
Like where does that come from,as far as even that type of
belief system to have that it'sso early?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
I don't know.
I I think I have to put thisback to my dad, who had a heavy
influence on myself playedhockey, um, you know, uh, you
know, every day, every week, itwas hockey, we watched it, we
played it and it was justingrained and we were around it.
The environment my brother wastwo years older.

(30:30):
He was a goalie, but it wasjust an environment that we were
around growing up and you know,obviously I gravitated towards
it and was hungry to play thegame all the time and wanted to
be the best at every level and Ithink that's what drove me to

(30:51):
have a lot of success.
You know, early on through, youknow to 18.
And then, obviously, you know acouple things I would change
once I got to 18.
I think that that was maybe oneof the things that if I could
do over was.
You know, once I got drafted, Ithought, okay, I did it, but
it's, you have to reinventyourself and maybe I stopped

(31:14):
doing things that I I did upuntil that point, from a mental
standpoint, I was very goaloriented.
I used to write on a boardbefore every game how many goals
and assists I thought I wouldget and then after I would fill
in what I did, and so, andironically, I would either
achieve exactly or even morethan what I thought I would get.

(31:36):
And so when I look at, you knowa lot of the top sports
psychologists or people you knowtalk about.
You know, you know mentaltraining.
I was doing this at seven,eight, nine years old without
anyone telling me to do it, andso you know, obviously, I'm sure
, clients that you work with,you know goal setting and you

(31:58):
know stuff like that's important.
But uh, I think maybe my onedownfall that I regret is that I
stopped focusing on that once Idid get drafted, which I do
regret.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
And stop focusing on what exactly Like your output.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, well, the goals I mean.
Now, once you get drafted, it'slike, okay, I'm here now, now
what's next?
And so you know, I think therewas a lot that comes with.
You know, being in thatenvironment, as you're aware, I
think it's important to keepsetting goals every year and
trying to attain certain goals,like you, keep your actions and

(32:38):
everything in line with it andkeeping yourself accountable.
I wish I continued to do that,like I used to prior to getting
drafted.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Right, so was that a little bit of um?
You never came across ascomplacent to me at all um or or
not working, but do you thinkthat was kind of like?
Is that what it was Like?
You stopped working a littlebit as hard too then after that
no, no, I, the work side of it,never.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
No, I, I always wanted to be first.
Um, you know that never stopped.
I just think, like you need tohave specific things that you're
focusing on mentally, likeyou're holding yourself
accountable to and workingtowards, and what that is at
that level, I I don't know, butyou know, you know being patient

(33:27):
and working towards thosewithout getting frustrated,
without getting overwhelmed.
I think you know, because I wasa fast track and wanted to get
in and wanted to be there Onceyou get drafted, as you know,
there's a lot of great players,and I mean in Toronto you know
Gilmore was there, matt Sundinwas there, there was a lot of
you know Gilmore was there andthat's on.
Dean was there.
There was a lot of, you knowpretty good players that were in

(33:47):
my position at center that didthings that I did as good as I
did or better.
You know what I mean.
And so it's not always on yourtime and that's what you have to
realize.
It's just relaxing, keepworking, stay positive, stay
with it and your time will comewhen it presents itself or you

(34:10):
have to be ready when it comesright, yeah, two great points
which is not easy yeah, no, it'snot easy.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
A lot of it's not easy.
Um, you can see that in Um, youcan see that in in different
players.
The environment, of course,like, really matters a lot.
Uh, as far as what ecosystemare you getting put into right?
Who is above you right what?
How's the team doing all thatstuff?

(34:38):
Like, a lot of times, eventhese guys did a somebody pan
out or did they do great or didthey not, or there's a surprise
right.
Well, holy smokes, a lot of ithas to do with that, you know.
Just in and of itself, uh, thething I found interesting with
the toronto mapleys was they hadthey did have these good
players, but they didn't havegood teams and so they weren't
doing well.
Uh, you would think that theywould be in an environment where

(35:01):
they'd be bringing youngerplayers in to play a more
prominent role, yet that wasreally never the case there the
whole time, because they werealways either trying to hang on
to whatever you know orbelieving what they had.
So I think that didn't help youor I in that environment very
much.
Just going to take a short breakfrom the conversation with

(35:23):
Brandon Convery to give a hugethank you to the PowerTech
podcast with Andy Paquette, whohad me on a couple weeks ago as
a guest my stuff online, some ofmy stuff in the Instagram feed

(35:43):
and said that he reallyrespected what I was doing and
wanted to have a discussionabout it and to be able to talk
about the mindset, programs anddevelopment that I offer to
players.
So I said yes to that.
Andy seemed like a good guy.
We had a good conversationprior to the podcast and then we
had a really good conversationand, without knowing, obviously,

(36:05):
all the different podcasts outthere, it was quite compelling
to me to see the feedback fromthat episode.
Powertalk seems like they havea reach that is a little
different than mine.
Mine seems to be mostly Western, canadian, western US based,
whereas PowerTech they're out ofOntario and there's quite a few
people that listen from thatarea and all around North

(36:28):
America.
So great reach with the podcast.
It exposed me to a lot of newlisteners and maybe some of you
listeners are here now listeningto the Up my Hockey podcast
because of that interview thereand a lot of new interest in
just in the programs, not onlyfrom the individual aspect A lot
of parents and players havebeen reaching out but also from
a team aspect.
So definitely want to thankAndy and the PowerTech team

(36:50):
there for having me on.
It's awesome to be able to reachmore people, to be able to help
more players, which is what Ilove doing.
Having players have a betterexperience with the game of
hockey, to be able to put theirbest foot forward, to step in
closer to their personalpotential, is super exciting for
me and, yeah, the conversationsthat I've been having in the

(37:12):
last two, three weeks have beennumerous but have been welcomed.
So thank you very much to thePowerTech team and if you are
somebody who has not listened tothe PowerTech podcast, go check
them out, go give them a ringIf you're a listener of mine.
It sounds like there is a lotof similarities, kind of in the
discussions that they have overthere on PowerTech and want to

(37:33):
support the player as well intheir advancement through minor
hockey and into junior andbeyond.
So thank you Andy, thank youPowerTech team and thank you for
all those who have reached out.
And if you are somebody that isinterested and has been a
listener and has not reached outwith regards to your player and
how I can help, or with theteam that you're with and how I

(37:54):
can help.
Please do.
Let's get it going.
Let's support your player to bethe best that they can be and
or your team, which is a reallygreat aspect to get into team
development and culturedevelopment.
When the whole team understandsthe language and understands
the tools, it can really be agalvanizing thing that allows
the whole team to go throughhigher heights and more wins and

(38:17):
better experience, and you nameit.
So, yes, looking forward tothose of you reaching out, and
let's get back to theconversation with Brandon Comrie
.
How was that first year?
So you do go eighth, you getdrafted.

(38:39):
What is the message, if one atall, about the plan for you
within that organization?

Speaker 1 (38:50):
I look back at it, I don't think there was much of a
plan.
I think they were struggling asan organization.
I think the year before theybeat Detroit and went on that
run and lost to Gretzky in LA,there was a little bit of
excitement there.
But you know, I look back, likeyou just mentioned, we had some
.
I mean we had some good players.
I mean Mike Gartner was there,you know, wendell was there, but

(39:14):
there obviously was aleadership component to that
because there was good enoughtalent.
Why wasn't you know the results,you know moving forward and I
think even blending in youngerplayers to that organization.
If you look at the 80s and 90s,even into the 2000s, toronto, I
don't think that they everdeveloped a first round pick.

(39:36):
I mean you can pick on yourhand maybe, maybe a couple, I
don't know.
Obviously the games changed.
Where I feel it's a, it's ayounger man's game now, or when
we were in it, I felt like itwas the 30 31 year old league
with maybe a few 20, some, youknow, that were on a team

(39:57):
playing.
So I think that was a littlebit different.
Um, but I don't know.
I I know now being on winningteams and looking back on why we
were successful on those teamscompared to why we weren't on
certain teams I played with forsure yeah, there's a big
difference there.

(40:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I was just wondering that as far as the plan, because
I know you and I are both verypro-communication and that's
easier said than done too, right?
I don't think there's anybodythat's going to raise their hand
and say I'm anti-communication.
Right, people think that theydo it.
Some places do it better thanothers and some players need it

(40:39):
more than others too is theother thing.
So I think that's part of thepsychology of this whole player
development aspect that getsmissed a lot of times.
It isn't a one-size-fits-allfor guys.
You need to understand thatBrendan Convery might need a
little bit more of a game planfor him than Danny Markoff does.
That's two differentpersonalities, two different

(41:01):
people.
How do you feel about that?
Because I know that you gotinto what I'm doing now after
the fact.
So I think that obviouslybreaks the cord with you
probably what I'm saying there.
If you were to be director ofplayer development at that time
and you just drafted BrandonConvery now, how would you
handle that scenario?

Speaker 1 (41:18):
yeah, well, I think, looking back at that, even
mentioned that pierre dorian wasthe head of player development
with toronto when I got drafted.
He passed away a year later andso, as everyone knows, like he,
I was his guy right and so hepassed away.
Then someone else comes in,takes over.
Maybe he was a fan of somebodyelse, and so I do think it's

(41:39):
important when you know, gowhere you're wanted.
So if you're on a younger teamand you know I get a lot of
times I had calls from parentsand kids are like you know where
should I go play?
To me it's an easy answer Gowhere you're wanted.
And you know, take advantage ofit there where you want it.

(42:03):
And, um, you know, takeadvantage of it there.
But, uh, you know the withtoronto and in the plan that
just I don't know what it wasand, um, you know, I, I look
back.
It's my own responsibility, uh,but I do think back my, my
oldest son just turned 18 and Ilook at him right now.
I'm like, I mean, he's young,he doesn't know any better and
so there needs to be someguidance.
And so, post hockey, I got intodoing some seminars and

(42:27):
mentoring, similar to whatyou're doing, because I felt it
was a huge need and what waslacking in the game.
It wasn't about you know, theon ice and working on your shot
and skating that that's a given,but I I felt like what was
missing is, you know, buildingthat internal strength and uh
knowing that you know, talentmight take you to places where

(42:48):
talent can't keep you, and Ithink that was very evident.
Um, for myself, um, I had enoughtalent.
I was my own worst enemy and um, you know there's things that
you need to have in place and,um, I think coaches need to do a
better job at.
Like you said, we're not allthe same and I'm not saying one
needs more than the other, butfrom the teams that I had

(43:12):
success on winning championships, um, the coaches you know got
to know you.
There was a trust level, butyou knew that their intentions
were the right thing.
And I think a lot of times inmy early age I didn't trust
anyone at the pro level and Idon't think that's the right way
to go about it.
In that environment, you haveto have somebody that you can

(43:35):
lean on and trust and, um, youknow it's.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
It's crucial, I feel, for development yeah, that, uh,
that's a little bit of amarketing pitch, like for what I
do.
I think that the third party,the third party aspect, that a
player knows that you have theirbest interest at heart, period.
Right, like there's no otherulterior motives.
Like I want I want john smithto be the best player that he

(44:02):
can be, end of story, right,like that's the only thing that
I have on my mind and I thinkthat that players need that.
I do think that the bridge hasbeen gapped, uh, a little bit
when it comes to, like when weplayed and you played on a few
teams, like your opinion on this, but I always felt that it was
an us like the players versusthem, the coaches and the

(44:23):
management, like it never feltlike we were on the same page.
It always felt like that wewere adversaries within the same
organization.
I think again, it seems likesome of these guys that are
getting it now and getting goodresults, like you know, the paul
, maur, maurice's and theCooper's and the Sullivan's like
they've bridged that gap right.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
But if you yeah, I mean if you listen to them.
I mean I don't know each ofthem, but I would love to play
for them.
Just listen to them how they goabout themselves, right,
they're honest.
You know there's probably a twoway you could talk to them
about anything, but they,they're honest.
You know there's probably atwo-way you could talk to them
about anything, but they'vegained the trust of the players
and so I think you know, listen,I think that that's for me when

(45:03):
I was coaching my players, Istill get calls from my players
to this day.
This was 10, 15 years ago and wehad great teams because the
kids knew I did things how Iwish I was treated and we had a
lot of success.
Was I hard and expected a lot?
Absolutely, but I look at thoseguys, like you know, like you

(45:27):
mentioned, they're primeexamples.
Players want to play for them,they trust them and they have a
lot of success, but not just oneyear.
They're consistent and you lookat the teams that don't have
that consistency, I think youcan look and pinpoint, kind of
there's a trickle-down effectfrom the top down why they don't

(45:48):
have success.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Right, yeah, from a culture standpoint, I mean,
obviously I try and look at thegame from a holistic standpoint
Maybe not obviously, but I doright.
So there's the individualinvolved and it's like how do
you have a collective, how doyou have collective excellence
and how do you develop thatculture?
And I think that there is,there is an approach that I
think has been proven successfuland I and I think it's not the

(46:10):
challenge with it, I think and Idon't know how you feel about
this is that it's not thateveryone can institute it,
because you need a reallyspecial person in that chair to
do it, because it's a, it's askillset that not everybody has.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
No, it's like anything, though there's.
You know, I'm trying to find aphysiotherapist here in
Nashville and it's there's veryfew that are at that level Right
, and it's you apply that toanything.
It's.
You know, just because they'recoaching in the nhl doesn't mean
they're, you know, outstanding,uh, compared to their peers.
And so there's very few that, Ifeel, that are elite and like

(46:48):
get it, and the ones that don't,I feel, get moved around quite
a bit, and the ones that do getit are consistent and they have
success, whether they win thecup or not.
I mean, that's the hardestthing to do, but they're,
they're right there.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
How was your so your after your draft year?
How, how close were you at acamp, whether the first year or
the second year like was?
Was there any close calls atall?

Speaker 1 (47:15):
I can remember my first training camp.
I was so uncomfortable itwasn't even funny.
I mean, it was I.
I didn't.
I went to camp.
I didn't have my gear.
Prior to camp I had new gloves,new pants.
I didn't even bring my stick,so I used to cut the length of
my stick.
I would measure it, I didn'teven know what length is like.
This is the most uncomfortableexperience and and as a result

(47:40):
it didn't go well and start offwhile being a first round pick
in Toronto.
And so looking back, I learnedthat, like I have clients and
they have kids today.
What I tell them when it's like, shift the gear as soon as you
get drafted, get comfortable,get that out of the way.
I mean, they do a great job atthat now, I mean.
But it was awful, I can honestlyadmit.

(48:02):
You know, my first Pat Burnswas the coach.
You know Burnsy was not thefondest of having communication
with young people.
At that time it was prettyknown.
Uh, I was awful and I thinkthat kind of started kind of
putting me behind the ball whereI had to play catch up.

(48:24):
But I think by the my secondyear, um, you know, things went
great.
Randy wood hit me from behind.
I think a week before theseason started I was playing
with wendell cl, my partner, asmy wingers.
Things were going really welland that just kind of put me

(48:45):
behind the ball.
I was out I think six to eightweeks and then they had to send
me down again.
But I can remember that firsttraining camp.
It's so important for kids tobe prepared and to give
themselves a chance to becomfortable in an uncomfortable
environment, which is hard to do.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Right, yeah, totally hard to do, and especially when
you have the eyes on you, I meanlike no one really.
I guess it gets brought up abit, but like that idea, I mean
like being number eight andbeing the first one and and
feeling like there's more eyeson you.
And in Toronto there definitelyis more eyes on you.
It's not even you know, that'snot an exaggerated thing.

(49:26):
Was that when you started tofeel the magnitude of of being
that?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
I don't know, I don't know, I'm kind't know, I'm kind
of like.
I never thought in those terms,like pressure, I was my own
worst critic and I thinkobviously the way I thought from
a young age obviously propelledme to get to where I got to.
But it also was a kind of aslippery sword where at that
level, on those particularcircumstances, that level on

(49:56):
those particular circumstances,it can be a huge disadvantage
for you because I wantedeverything so quickly and was so
, not to say overwhelmed, I justkind of self-sabotaged my own
self, which, again, my ownresponsibility.
But that's why I think it'simportant to surround yourself

(50:19):
with a good environment that'sgoing to say, hey, you're okay.
You know, keep working, keepmoving.
You know I can remember talkingto, I think, the sports
psychologist back then and he'dbe like don't worry about it,
you'll be fine.
And I'm looking at him like I,to play now you know what I mean
like this was like life ordeath for me.

(50:41):
Internally.
There was no other go play inthe minors for the next 10 years
.
I, I, it was like nhl ornothing.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
That was kind of my mentality and was great for
certain instances and not sogood for others one of the
things that comes up, uh, for mewith the, with the players that
I work with, is the idea of theself-criticism right.
So, like I, I do think thatthere is an element that is is a

(51:12):
high performer trait.
I mean, if you don't have highstandards and if and if you
aren't particular about yourgame or your you know your
practice, habits or any of thesethings, yeah, you're not going
to get to where you want to go,but there doesn't be.
There does become a point whereif we, you know, if we focus on
it or if we're too hard onourselves, that it can become a
detriment is.

(51:32):
Is that, is that essentiallykind of what you're thinking?
Like you knew that you didn'thave a good camp, and the fact
that you didn't have a good campand maybe weren't living up to
this expectation that you hadfor yourself personally was
almost worse than somebody elsetelling you.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, well, exactly, it was my own.
I knew I had, you know, theability and stuff like that.
That it was just, you know,self-sabotage in the sense where
you know just have to take astep back and keep moving
forward.
And, like I say at the time,there's nothing wrong with kids.

(52:08):
Even today, like going down,even my first year junior I sat
and watched a bit and, you know,take notes and away you go.
Playing in the minors was almostthe norm back then in the 90s.
You go down and play a year ortwo and then you get called up
and you're ready to go.
So, but it, but in my mind Iwas just, you know, uh, built in

(52:29):
my mind that I wanted to be thebest and uh, and if I couldn't
do that it was was internallynot good.
And then you do start readingthe Toronto Star or the Toronto
Sun and you know, maybe there'stimes that you shouldn't be
looking at that.
And I'm sure today, with youknow, obviously, online media

(52:50):
and things like that, the smartones probably don't even pay
attention to it, which is apositive thing.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Yeah Well, how do you combine so, like if I'm getting
back to the, the crit, likewhen I'm working with, with
players, the idea is, is we wantto be able to use the
information available, I meanfrom whatever it was right, the
practice or the game that maybe,like we're disappointed in, but
then like, how do we put that?
How do we use it?
And then move on and stepforward, and it's all with the
intention of playing the longgame, really right, like trying

(53:18):
to get better over the long termwhich you've spoken to, having
some patience involved in theprocess.
Uh, would that be somethinglike if you were to go back now
and be 20 again, like, how wouldyou handle the, the
self-critique, and what wouldyou do on a, on a kind of
day-to-day, game--to-day basis?

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Well, definitely.
I mean, I think today now, withstudying of game tape and film
or you know, whatever, they haveaccess to everything and I
think, being a student of thegame, I mean they have real time
.
They watch it even after ashift.
They got their iPads on thebench.
I think things like that Iwould be.

(53:56):
I mean, I thought I was astudent of the game but now,
looking back, I mean I wouldhave been even more off ice,
focused on, you know, whether itwas maintaining strength
physically and maintaining themental component of it.
So you're doing the things andreminding yourself what got you

(54:17):
there.
Um, you know, I think we losehindsight.
We lose, we start focusing onother people, what they're doing
, as opposed to getting back towhat you do and what you do best
and and as long as you're doingit in that environment.
You know you got to do what youprovide and do best and
obviously learn and grow yourgame.
You know I was an offensiveplayer.

(54:40):
You know should have beenpulled aside a little bit
earlier, even been told how doyou play away from the puck.
And you know if you were verygood at that, which Doug Gilmore
was great at, you know ifyou're great at that, you have
the puck more in returnoffensively.
If you're great at that, youhave the puck more in return

(55:00):
offensively.
And so just understanding thoseconcepts, I think for younger
players coming through, I thinkyou have to have that discipline
, not only on the ice or intraining but mentally, to watch,
re-watch video, things likethat, and how can you do things
differently and improve upon.
I'm big on, you know, remindingyourself what you're good at
while you're working on thelittle things that can improve

(55:23):
your total game.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
I love you.
Saying that that's just what Iworked on with my group last
week is like understanding what,what makes you unique and
valuable, like and really owningthat to the best of your
ability.
Right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Because you're, you're not helping the team.
If I, you know I didn't produceoffensively, I mean there's
other guys that would hit andblock shots, and you know it's
like you gotta, you gotta be atyour best to help the team and
if you're not, you're nothelping.
And so, um, you know I again.
You get back to success at theWorld Juniors, success in Europe

(55:59):
on Team Canada, on teams wherewe won, it's just every, each
individual brought something andcontributed and did that very
well, and so you know that's whywe won.
And even though we won, it washard, you know what I mean.
So that just tells you you haveto have everything lined up in

(56:21):
order to even have a chance towin.
That's why, looking back now, Isee these teams that are
consistently taking anopportunity to win, even at the
junior level or even at the prolevel, winning the stamp cup.
It's until've won.
You don't understand it.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Can you think that you can wantit too much?
Yeah, and can that be a problem?
Again, I've been trying to getDanny on Markov because he is
such an awesome human being.
Yeah, and what a great dude.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
He's probably fishing .
He's fishing in Florida toomuch, he doesn't have time, he
doesn't get reception out on theocean, but uh, yeah, I do.
I think for me is a primeexample of maybe wanting it too
much too quickly.
And I I do think there's a fineline and again, I think that's
why programs like what you'redoing, the importance of of

(57:17):
parents to understand thatthere's certain resources around
them, like what you're doing,like what I used to do, I think,
when I was doing this 10, 10,15 years ago, I don't I feel it
was ahead of the time in a sense, right no one was talking about
it was more on ice, morewhatever.
Now I think everyone's you knowyou listen to mckinnon talk.

(57:39):
He works with somebody,everyone's open to it and
understands the importance of it.
So it's uh you know a littledifferent.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, I know for sure .
I just like you know we can getso dialed in.
You know I don't need to meannames.
There's lots of like youngplayers now that are like really
uber dialed right, like fromlike a 24 7 kind of standpoint
and um, I just know like for me,and not that I was conscious

(58:10):
about it, but I felt that I diddo better when there was some
type of a diversion.
Sometimes in st john's itwasn't the best diversion,
obviously, with George Streetmaybe being right there.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Or having to get up for an alarm clock or something
you know there's some things.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
But even saying something more like I don't know
, like guitar or going fishing,Absolutely Absolutely Some of
these types of things.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Right, absolutely, listen, you immerse yourself,
like guitar or going fishingAbsolutely, absolutely Some of
these types of things.
Right, absolutely, listen, youimmerse yourself, be good at
what you do.
I do feel that you know,looking back on all this, the
shame of all of it is that lookhow much we, each of us,
accomplished in the game.
We didn't win the Stanley Cup,we didn't play a thousand games,
all right, but if you look back, I'm like pretty much did

(58:59):
everything there was to do inthe game.
I won at every level, didn'twin a stanley cup and didn't win
an olympic medal, butrepresented my country 10 times.
Um, so to to you know, that'swhat I'm saying.
Getting back to is taking a stepback and looking at, hey, what

(59:19):
you've accomplished and andthink about it and write in a
journal, write in your phone onthings that have gone well and
read it.
Actually, look at what you'veaccomplished and I think now
that I do that, it gives me somepeace of mind, even though you
know my career got cut short ina sense.
But I'm content with what I did.

(59:40):
Just I wish I did things alittle longer, but I think the
value in that is, as players, toenjoy the moment.
Enjoy the process because itgoes by in a blink of an eye and
all of a sudden you're I'm inthe life insurance business now.
You have a whole other life toto do other things and it feels

(01:00:03):
like a lifetime ago.
But you know, enjoying themoment because it goes by so
quick and there was a lot of funtimes where I was just you know
I was an idiot to myselfinternally and wish I'd enjoyed
things even more myselfinternally and and, uh, wish I'd
enjoyed things even more.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Yeah, no, that's a fair point.
And, like you say, I mean yougo back to those days, though,
and and where do you?
That's the thing like with,with even me now.
So kind of the same,essentially the same boat.
You mean, I thought that I wasgoing to be an NHL, or for a
long time I thought that I wasgoing to be an NHL all-star.
Whatever I thought I thought,Turns out I played 41 NHL games

(01:00:44):
For a long time.
For me, that was a massivedisappointment and almost an
embarrassment.
Now, age gives you a differentperspective and then you're able
to look back and be like okay,what could I have done different
?
Where did I show up?
Where I?
You know that didn't serve me.
And and even with what I do nowit's there's massive amounts of

(01:01:05):
accountability, not only in mylife, but also like what I teach
.
Right, you need to beaccountable and you need to take
ownership, almost likeextremely, but there is an ounce
of it, and maybe even way morethan an ounce, that some of
these things aren't in yourcontrol.
Like some of these things,maybe you didn't get what you
deserved at certain points, Like, and that's sort of the thing
with me, Like when I go back tothat 20 to 22, you know year old

(01:01:29):
Jason Padone or, for you,Brandon Convery, like I was
playing really fricking goodhockey.
I had 42 goals at 22 years oldand for some reason the Toronto
Maple Leafs, who weren't in theplayoffs, didn't bring me up
Like that.
Like that couldn't happen rightnow.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like it couldn't yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
So, like what, how did cause?
You were putting up numbers too, on a team and in a league
where the best players were thatweren't in the NHL, and like
you have every ounce of reasonto think that you shouldn't be
there, right?
So, like, what do you like?
What do you say to that person,or what do you like?
How is that different now fromthat perspective?

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
I don't know.
I mean like you said, I meanputting up those numbers now you
would think you're, they wouldhave a superstar in the waiting
and you know that's how I lookedat it then.
It's just, it's not on yourtime and unfortunately, I think
with you know a lot of thesekids that are being selected
with different teams.
I think you know you look atother sports, look at the

(01:02:30):
mannings, not reporting tocertain organizations and not to
say that kids should, familiesshould, get into that.
But the story, the the just ofit is you got to be careful who
you surround yourself with andyou got to be mindful of
opportunities, of whatorganization maybe you get

(01:02:50):
plugged into if you do have thatchoice.
We don't have that choicebecause there's a draft.
Not all of us are free agentsof a college and we get to pick,
but it's.
If I got selected toPhiladelphia Flyers or someone
else to pick earlier, calgaryFlames, how would it have turned

(01:03:13):
out?
differently, you know what Imean and it's I have zero
regrets at all and from thewhole thing that transpired,
it's just you learn from it.
You do things now that you'redoing.
Maybe this led to for you to dowhat you do now and, uh, it
makes you feel good and you knowthe importance of it and I

(01:03:34):
think that's the bonus of allthis.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
You know, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, I've actually said thata few times like I mean, if I
did have the career that Iwanted, there'd be no way that
you and I would be talking onthis show right now, I'm sure
right, because I wouldn't bedoing what I'm doing.
You know, I'd be fishing withDanny Markoff you know, at your.
Marlin, right now, yeah, yeah,no, exactly, so, no, so, so

(01:03:56):
there is a reason, um, and, andI'm, and I am grateful for that
reason, because it does give youa perspective too, you know,
one that's different than thanyou know, somebody else, I guess
that that had a differentcareer path right, that had that
got different results.
Uh, the the thing with is likewith the accountability aspect
is there's there's definitelyspots and steps that I, you,

(01:04:20):
know, you could improve.
Who couldn't right?
It's just tough when it's likedamn, like I'm not sure how much
could have changed, other than,like the environment, like the
environment you're talking about, you don't have a choice over.
You know, like, like thatactual thing that you said was
about an opportunity too.
Uh, the opportunity needs tocome like.

(01:04:40):
In.
The one time for me it came waswhen, in that initial trade,
like when I first got traded totoronto, I went there, they had
me on some good lines, I playedminutes and I guess I don't even
know where the story is goingbecause it wasn't like I've
actually felt that I played bad.
I could have played better, Icould have had more production.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
It's kind of like it's the hump right if you play
it in like 10 more games, you'reover the hump and then you can
settle down and you're playingyou're right, and that was
exactly it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
And so I didn't meet.
I didn't meet whateverthreshold was there.
And I remember mike johnsoncame in at the exact same time
from college and that's kind ofsuch an interesting thing too
right like unheralded, undraftedon this on that, comes in out
of college and like essentiallywon my job, like he started the
year next year, and then I waslike you're playing uphill for
the rest of the time and and forwhatever reason, they saw in

(01:05:33):
him.
They saw in him and he went onto a great career and you know I
mean happy for him.
But it's just like that was theopportunity, like that was the
opportunity that nine ten gameswas my opportunity in Toronto
and I didn't seize it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
Yeah, no, it's.
Um, I feel everyone's probablygot their own.
You know story, I just, I, justI think ironically, if I look
back, like when I did get myopportunity, you know, the last
10 games of my second year, Igot called up to Trump.
I have five goals and twoassists in the last 10 games.

(01:06:06):
I thought, wow, this is.
You know, I'm good, I'm off tothe races.
And then the next year Istruggled.
You know a new coach came in.
You know new situation.
You know a new coach came in,you know new situation, new this
, and struggled with it.
And you know, then eventuallygot traded to Vancouver and
thought, okay, this is great.
The following year, nine pointsin 12 games get put on waivers.

(01:06:29):
It just didn't add up.
And I think in that environmentyou do.
That's what I get back to.
What I say is that you have tobe ready to take on that
opportunity when it presentsitself and not to say that
you're not going to get anotheropportunity.
But in that environment, nottoo many times, uh, you know

(01:06:50):
it's popping up.
You know, every day, every week, you got to be to be ready To
have that inner mindset andinner skill set to be able to
handle what's coming.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Did you make the team after I did notice and I was
going to ask you about that thefive goals in 11 games.
Do the math on that.
If that extrapolates over aseason, the next year, did you
start with the big club?

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
You made the team out of camp, so that was and then.
So, if you look, back on thatthe 39 games and then the.
That's crazy.
You made two goals in the next39 games after you got five and
11.
How?

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
much was that on you.
I mean, you know you're playing.
You know I'm an offensiveplayer.
I mean not to knock.
You know playing fourth lineand you're as good at it.
Listen, if you give me askilled player, I'll make you as
good as I want you to be inthat league.
Basically that's how I look atit.
So you know there was otherplayers that we both know that

(01:07:48):
were on the team whatever, youknow a lot more popular than I
was.
So you're in that predicamentand unfortunately that's just
the way it went.
So you know you've got tounderstand the rules of the game
and to deal with it and doother things well while you bide
your time to get thatopportunity.
But you know, I thought goingto Vancouver was going to be a

(01:08:08):
fresh start and obviously withMike Key in there, you know.
I did extremely well, I'm veryproud of what I did there.
I couldn't have done anythingelse, but I just don't think I
got out from under the Torontostigma and I think that's a
lesson to learn for kids is like, you know, you got to like I

(01:08:31):
say not to be repetitive youjust you got to be ready and
take advantage of an opportunitybecause of that environment.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
It's just you know you might only have one chance
right, so you know take a shortbreak from the podcast just to
remind you of the mindset quizthat is now up on my website, up
my hockey.
It's a it's a super clean,simple, easy introduction to

(01:08:59):
some of the things that I helphockey players with.
It'll take less than fiveminutes to complete Super clean,
super simple and you will findout where you are at currently
when it comes to your mindsetwith a letter grade response.
So you will get a letter gradefor your athlete, which is an

(01:09:21):
auto responder that will breakdown where you're currently at.
The mindset quiz will also besent to me so I'll be able to
see some of the answers and seewhere maybe we can make some big
gains with your athlete'smindset and his skill
development, with your athlete'smindset and his skill
development within that and hisperformance.
And if you are willing and if Ithink that we can help here at

(01:09:43):
UpMyHockey, then I encourage alittle 15-minute phone call to
see where you're at and if wecan help.
So if you are at all interestedabout mindset, what that
actually means, where it showsup in the game, and if you're an
athlete or if you are a playerlistening, if you are somebody
that could benefit from somemindset development or mindset

(01:10:04):
training.
Then check out the mindset quiz.
It starts the conversation andit's definitely not something
that has to be followed throughwith meaning.
It's not a hard sell at all.
It's just an exposure to wherewe can help, where you may need
some help, and encourages aconversation.

(01:10:26):
So, yeah, if you want to getinvolved in that mindset quiz,
it is at upmyhockeycom.
It is also on my Instagram page.
If you go to my bio, it is alink available there.
Two ways to access it.
There's also the Up my Hockeyparent group on Facebook.
If you're not a member of that,you should be.
You can request access to thatprivate group on Facebook and

(01:10:49):
the mindset quiz is alsoavailable there.
So lots of places to take it.
Get after it, it's somethingthat you'll find interesting,
I'm sure.
And Get after it.
It's something that you'll findinteresting, I'm sure, and
maybe it'll lead to someadvancement in the personal
development in the game.
So let's get back to theconversation now with Brandon
Convery.
That next stint, like the onebefore you got traded to Toronto

(01:11:14):
, like and you said was it?
You said I wish I struggled,were you struggling?
Are you struggling with therole?
Accepting your role?
Like, how, how were youstruggling, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Yeah, I was.
I was not in a good frame ofmind, just personally.
You know, I was frustrated withthe way or what position I was
put in, with the way or whatposition I was put in, who I was
playing with felt I was as goodas others around me that were
playing and so I struggled andit affected me.
It was my own fault, I mean,you know again, probably why I

(01:11:49):
get into coaching and doingother things later, but if I was
in that position of authority,I would recognize that and pull
someone aside and just talk withthem.
I didn't trust anyone and youknow it was a big issue for me
and how I played and performedand ultimately I got traded,

(01:12:09):
which again was great, whichagain was great.
I just I would love to have aconversation with my team to
this day just to be upfront andto say, like, what did go on?
Because it was all positive.
Like I said, I had almost apointy game and you know, I

(01:12:31):
don't know what went wrong.
Yeah, you don't know, butyou've been super transparent,
which I appreciate.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
I mean, and I think that's where all the good stuff
comes from, one of the thingsthat I talk about, like.
So, again, so your scenariothere being resistant to the
role that you've been given inthat environment, right,
essentially, like there'sresistance there, you think you
should be in another scenarioyou know more minutes, different
, whatever Um, so we'rebalancing this idea of

(01:13:01):
expectation, which is a goodthing, right, that you feel that
there's more there, that youcan be more there.
But then it got to a point,probably, where it wasn't
helping you play better hockey,right, like, we actually became
cynical, um, and maybe evenshowed up in the locker room,
like, do you think, if you wereto look back, did you think that
the negativity potentiallyshowed up in the locker room?

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
A hundred percent.
You know I didn't listen.
I feel if I could label myselfit would definitely be
misunderstood.
I think that a lot of peoplethat didn't really know me at
that level thought that maybeyou know, like I overcared and
it affected me and so I didn'ttrust anyone, didn't talk to

(01:13:40):
anyone really you know, from acoaching staff standpoint or
anything like that.
Um, and it affected me.
I label it as misunderstood andso fast forward getting into
coaching and everything, myplayers I knew them inside and
out, like there was no I limitedthat right off the table.
They knew that.
I knew.
I knew what their goals were,what their outcomes were.

(01:14:03):
I knew how much they cared.
I knew what their family wantedfor them.
It's just things like that thatmake the difference.
And getting back to thosecoaches you mentioned before, I
mean that's the difference.
I mean if you have someone thatreaches out and gets to
understand you as a person andI'm not faulting anyone at that

(01:14:24):
time because maybe they thoughtI was okay, you know what I mean
.
I didn't really talk, did myown thing, probably moped a
little my own self and didn'thelp my own self in that
particular situation where theymisunderstood how much I did
care, when maybe they thought Ididn't care yeah, you know, yeah

(01:14:45):
, no, it's not about.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
I mean, it's not about pointing fingers.
I think everyone is doing thebest they can with what they got
in the moment.
You know we have to, we have toassume that's the case, right,
like no one helped to getanybody.
It's just like learning fromour mistakes or potentially, how
, how it helped other, or I meanthe effect it had on others,
and you obviously did that withyour coaching after.
Okay, like this is, this iswhat I felt, this is how I'm

(01:15:06):
going to do this going forward,uh, and but that that is such a
massive piece of of the puzzle.
When it comes to being a hockeyplayer, like I always say, like
there's, you have that hockeyplayer, of course, but there is
a human being inside that hockeyplayer right which allows that
hockey player to be good.
And and why I brought up thelocker room is because that's
another one like that I trumpet.

(01:15:27):
A lot is like how are weshowing up in that locker room?
And when we're?
Because you mean there's aneffect.
You mean josh don't said theother day, I mean his dad said
be a fountain, not a drain and Iknow that I could have been a
drain at times too.
When things aren't going goodfor you, you show up there.
We're a little bit miserable.
That affects people.
You know like it affects people.
And it's not necessarilybecause anyone's selfish or

(01:15:48):
anyone's, you know, immature.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
It's just didn't know any better at the time that it
wasn't helping you or anyoneelse.
Yeah, no, I you hit it.
I mean it's like I say I, youlook at it, you know kids, 18
year olds.
Like I say, I don't fault them.
And so I look back and, as muchas I do take responsibility,
it's like maybe I do have to say, hey, I don't blame you for how
you were on how you behaved.
I mean it wasn't appropriate.

(01:16:18):
It wasn't like I was crazy oranything, it was just my
internal self-being.
It just self-sabotaged my play.
It really did no other answerbut that it drained me
physically, mentally, you nameit, it did it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Yeah, and it's not fun anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
No, it wasn't fun, and that's why I'm saying, like
I got to that level and I waslike this is what this is.
I played my whole life dreamingof playing in the NHL.
I finally get there.
I got drafted first round, doall this, and then it's like
this is it?
You know what I mean?
So it's it's kind of like, butthat's what I get back to
talking about.
Like setting the bar and settinggoals to keep achieving certain

(01:17:04):
things is that you got toreinvent yourself constantly and
, uh, moving the bar, becauseit's like I got there, that I
was kind of like, and then youget around players that you
idolized or grew up thinking howthey were and leaders and
things like that.
And then you get around them andthen you're like, wait a second
, they're not.
They're not what I thought theywere.

(01:17:25):
Or I think, for players growingup that are playing never
assume they're as good as youthink and nor are they as bad as
you think.
And, um, I think for a lot ofkids that maybe are in awe like
I was in awe of these guys whenI first got drafted.
I mean, I grew up.
I I can tell you what, how theytaped their stick, what color

(01:17:47):
they wore this.
It was just, it was kind of asavant in those things and
sometimes I got caught up toomentally of being in awe as
opposed to hey I'm, I'm actuallybetter than these guys if I
just put my head down and getafter it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
So it was interesting yeah, I mean and I find that
that enjoyment piece is what iswhat I'm going to stick to is is
because, as an amateur athlete,like even even the tough times
in spokane like there was sometough times there, for sure like
I I never stopped having a goodtime, like it was all, and

(01:18:22):
especially in minor hockey, likeI didn't even pressure, I don't
even know what that was right,like it was just go play and
then, as a pro, as a pro, therewas definitely times where I was
cynical, but like when, whenI'm talking with players now and
I see it showing up more aslike these u13, u15, like
already getting, like thatthere's no fun and it's like

(01:18:43):
that's the like.
That's the thing that I try andconnect everyone to is like what
the why?
Like you're doing this becauseyou loved it at some point,
right, like, and we need tocontinue loving it, finding ways
to love it, and and part ofthat is enjoying that process
that you said of like gettingbetter, like just being in it,
being in the fight, like that'sgot to be part of the fun.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Yeah, listen, we're all enjoying things a little bit
more when we're doing what wefeel we're supposed to be doing,
and so that's easier said thandone.
And I think that's the slipperysword when you're in that
environment pro level or highlevel of whether it's business
or sports it's performing at thelevel that you perceive
yourself to perform at and youknow, maybe you have to dial it

(01:19:28):
down a little bit and while youkeep moving forward in that
environment, I would stronglysuggest that.
But again, it's just gettingback to the trust level from the
people that are above you orthe peers that are around you.
I just feel like it's a teamgame, right, and I want your

(01:19:48):
viewers or whoever's watching itit's a team game that
ultimately comes down toeveryone is focusing on
themselves, right, to be attheir best, and you know it's
the ones that do it the best.
They have the most team successwhere they bring up their best,
but ultimately it comes down tothe individual.

(01:20:08):
Even though everyone talksabout team concepts and all this
, I get it, but we all want tobe at our best and we all want
to contribute and feel likewe're contributing a part of
something meaningful, whetherit's winning or, you know,
whatever it is, but you know, Ithink, that environment you do

(01:20:31):
get to understand there's guysthat are focusing all about
themselves and you understandit's not all about team but you
know, trying to be at your bestto help the common goal, which
is ultimately to win the stanleycup, in that environment.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
Yeah yeah, I think it , uh, and you, and you saw it in
the few teams that you were onand I saw it for sure, like in
the nhl and out of it as well,the different cultures within
the greatest league in the world, right, like the ones that, the
ones that aren't beingsuccessful.
You can look back now as anadult and be like, oh, I can
clearly see why, you know, and Ican clearly see why this other

(01:21:07):
group was was doing so well,because the atmosphere in the
room wasn't individual and itwasn't.
You know, it was about.
It was about making adifference and the brief time I
was with, well, I mean I waswith toronto, I mean not toronto
, florida for a while, like fromthe draft to my first year pro,
so you mean a few camps andthey had that success going to
the, going to the finals, the,the year before my first pro
year.
And that year for me, like Iwas a fourth line guy when I

(01:21:30):
played my 21 games with them orwhatever, 19, I think it was as
a first year pro and there wasno real issue with that for me
because, like, they did do agood job of just explaining that
this is, this is how you'regetting involved in the game in
the league, right like I wasn'treally worried that I only had
one goal, I wasn't worried thatI wasn't on the power play.
It was comfortable, right likeI had comfortable minutes in a

(01:21:53):
comfortable environment.
I felt that I was part of theprocess, and I thought they did
a pretty good job of likeexplaining to me about 30 years
ago, and then when the tradehappened, it was completely
different.
I didn't know what I wassupposed to do or kind of where
I fit in or what the plan was,and, and it kind of felt a
little bit unnerving in in someways.
And you know, and I don't knowif that's like whatever, but

(01:22:13):
that's just a little bit of aculture piece, a little bit of a
communication piece, a littlebit of like a, a knowledge piece
.
The thing I want to talk about,though, and I'm going to share a
story with you that Jason Krogtold, told on the podcast you
know him, right, jason Krog.
We played like.
He played a long time.
He came out with the Islanders.
He had a great pro in the eye,didn't have a ton of success in

(01:22:36):
the NHL, but played quite a fewgames, and he told a story when
he got called up from the IHLinto Atlanta I think it was at
the time and so he'd been a profor a while.
He'd won MVP, kind of in theminors, this type of stuff,
right, and they put him netfront on the power play.
And he up right and they puthim net front on the power play
and he was so pissed off that hewas net front on the power play

(01:22:58):
.
He never played net frontbefore, right.
So he's in the nhl net front ofthe power play.
Why the hell I've taken crosschecks in the back from the big,
you know, like all this stuff,right.
Anyways, and in theconversation he was like I was
so worried about being upsetthat I wasn't in my right spot
that I I didn't take advantageof the opportunity that was
right in front of me of maybeplaying good net front on the
power play.
Isn't that wild though right Tolook back on it, I think that's

(01:23:20):
just like a highlight foreveryone listening.
Right now, where you're atmight be exactly where you need
to be at.
You just got to do the best youcan with where you're at.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
You hit it.
That's what I'm saying.
We're always thinking thatwe're supposed to hear and that
we're we are where we'resupposed to be, and uh to to.
You know, it's kind of clichein a sense, it's like to enjoy
it or you know, you don't haveto accept it but but to just go

(01:23:50):
with it and build upon it and,like I said, I can only relate
to say relate to say it's justnot on your time in that
environment, it's not always onyour time.
In time, hopefully, you'll getto be where you want to be, but
it's just I don't know how topinpoint it, but that's funny,

(01:24:12):
we can all relate to that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
I think there's a lot of people that.
Can you know what?
I'm going to pick your words alittle bit and I want to see if
you agree with me.
So, like, the one thing that Isay to my players is that they
do need to accept it, but theydon't have to like it.
Yeah, true, right, becauseisn't that?
Isn't that like thedifferentiation there?
Like you need to accept whereit is, that you're at me being
in saint john's right or youbeing wherever, jason crock

(01:24:34):
being that front, you ought toaccept it.
You don't have to like it, butif you accept it, I think that
resistance goes away allows youto maybe take advantage of that
opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Yeah, it's yeah, I can only equate it to an energy
energy drainer.
You know it's uh fighting itand uh, it's just mentally,
physically it comes next and itjust drains you, you, you know
what I mean, and so I think,ultimately, players just got to
get back to just playing andhaving fun.
And having fun is doing what youdo best, and if you're doing

(01:25:04):
that consistently, if you'regood enough to maintain and stay
at a level that you aspire tobe at, so be it.
But you know my fondestestmemories.
I think that period maybe intoronto, where I got called up
and had that stint in the last10 or 11 games, and then
vancouver.
But other than that my mostexciting time was not in the nhl

(01:25:27):
, it was in lugano, switzerlandpost nhl, and we went on a run
and won the whole uh, swissleague.
I felt that could have beathalf the NHL teams.
Like we had a great roster PetriNewman and Mike.
Maniluk and you know myselfwith the three imports.

(01:25:47):
But we won collectively as ateam, and it's just night and
day why we did.
I mean, and I was accustomed towinning like like under 17 and
world juniors and things likethat, but this was a team
championship where you had towin four to seven.
You know, we all had to dothree rounds there as opposed to
four, and we were that good andwe barely won and it's just,

(01:26:13):
it's a testament to the coachingstaff who I feel the coach
there was probably the bestcoach I've ever had, from a
preparedness, you know,standpoint and also trying to
get to learn and understand youas an individual as to what you
know makes you tick, you know,and, but it's not for everyone.

(01:26:34):
You know and, uh, but it's notfor everyone.
That was what I liked.
You know, what you like mighthave been a little bit different
, or someone else's, but that'swhere it gets back to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
You said earlier, it's not one size fits all and
the good ones know how to uh um,connect with uh, various
players, not just a couple canwe agree, like, when people ask
me about mindset right, or likewhat that means, it's kind of,
for me, I I've been doing thisnow for like five years and I
haven't come up with the rightelevator pitch because, like,

(01:27:03):
when I say mindset, a lot ofpeople think that I teach, like
visualization, or they thinkthat I teach like you know, uh,
mindfulness, breathing orsomething, which are great tools
, but I'm like no, like, for me,it's like that's not even like
touching the surface.
What I like, I like mindset is,yeah, your preparedness, your,
your, your aptitude for, forwanting to improve your ability

(01:27:24):
to cope.
You know, you're like there'sso many things that come under
that, that like fall under theumbrella of high performance,
that it's like I just call itmindset, like do you, would you,
could you be more eloquent than?

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
I am with that.
Yeah, no, I think it's great.
I mean, I have a, an ex-clientthat actually just graduated
college and just got out ofchicago's farm team um tryouts,
I think last week.
He's in indianapolis in theeast coast lake, but I just
texted him and said, hey, learnto be a good pro.
What does that mean?
It just means you know, show upon time, put in the work.

(01:27:58):
You know what I mean bedisciplined, study, be a good
student.
Like it's, it's nothing to dowith you know, tell them to set
goals or do anything like that,but it's just like learn to be a
good pro.
And if you follow tom brady orany of these guys, the high
level guys, on how they didthings in the process, on how
they did things, it's thatapproach in itself, um, you know

(01:28:22):
, will get you a long way inthat environment, um, without
without getting overwhelmed, andmaybe that's why the sports
psychologist in toronto keptsaying ah don't worry about it,
you know like don't worry aboutit.
Like you're killing me rightnow, but maybe he was right.
Like don't worry about it.
Like you're killing me rightnow, but maybe he was right.
Hey, but you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Like that's such a great thing and I don't know, I
want to dig into it.
So that's like a mom or a dadsaying just go out there and
play, confident you know, ordon't worry about it.
Like yeah, of course that's,that's the message.
But like how or why Do you knowwhat I mean?
Like yeah, how would you dothat now?
Like maybe the message wasright not to worry about it, but

(01:29:03):
how do you not worry about?

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
it.
Well, I do think I look back atsome of the players that I feel
that you know, maybe I'll saythis politely, but I thought
their IQ level wasn't as high asmaybe the regulars politely,
but I thought their iq levelwasn't as high as maybe the
regulars, but maybe they had itright.
They just they didn't thinkabout it, you know what I mean,
and they had 10, 15 year careerin the nhl because they just

(01:29:27):
whatever you know what I meanthey just showed up.
They didn't really have thosehigh expectations or anything.
They just went and they playedand they worked hard and did
their job and went along.
I I think there's a lot of guyslike that in that environment.
For myself, I over overthinkingconstantly.
It's a good thing in one way,but also it can be a negative

(01:29:52):
thing in certain moments.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
I 1000% agree with that and I think that the guys
that have the most challengeswhen it comes to that are the
guys that are generallyintelligent, like I mean from an
IQ, like a real IQ standpoint,like not just a hockey IQ
standpoint and are cerebralright, which means that like
they overthink, and that is areal tough thing to do with a

(01:30:18):
high skill set in a very, veryhigh profile demanding
environment.
It's like how do we settle downthe hamster right and be simple
?
I find that the guys that yeahto your point that are a little
simpler, let's say cerebrally,like it's an easier time for
them because there's lesshappening.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Yeah, 100%.
Let's say cerebrally, like it'san easier time for them because
there's less happening yeah,100.
But I, you know, I think itgets back to the leadership
that's, you know, around theenvironment and great leaders on
great teams.
For me, you know a great way ofmaking people feel comfortable
and letting them be their self,be themselves and make them feel
like they can contribute towhat they're working towards.

(01:30:59):
But I can only equate that tothe teams that we won and had
the success on.
We had great leaders that werejust great guys and had fun.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
Yeah, that's it.
I mean, that's really it.
I mean anytime.
Anytime that I had success ormy memories of success was
always when it was the most funand the group was connected
right.
We were enjoying each other, wewanted to play for each other,
you wanted to show up at therink.
Uh, you know, all those thingsare real big testaments to

(01:31:34):
playing good hockey, which iswhy it's one of the most
fundamental things that I getguys to focus on.
What is it you love about it?
And that even gets back to whatwe were saying before Usually,
when you're doing what you dowell and you really focus on
that your unique value to theteam, the team does better, you
do better, you enjoy iteveryone's on the same page.
Maybe that's a good place toend.

(01:31:56):
I know you got other businessto do.
I appreciate I was going tohang on to you for as long as I
could, because I never know whenI'll get your back.

Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
It's like the Olympics every four years.
No, this is fun.
This is fun.
I think, like you say, it'slike what we're doing.
I'm in the life insurancebusiness, but it was more or
less.
We do a lot of disability workfor players that got injured and
had to retire, and so maybe youknow my takeaway I wanted to
make sure guys were protectedand looked after, so their

(01:32:25):
families were looked after, andso it's kind of similar to what
you're doing.
You're taking past experiencesand helping the youth and the
future of the game based on yourknowledge and what you would do
differently to help impact themin a positive way.
So I think it's.
I think it's outstanding whatyou're doing.
I think there needs to be morepeople that grasp what you offer

(01:32:49):
and provide, because I thinkvery few people actually get it,
which we talked about.
But it's one thing to be booksmart about it, but I do think
there's a component but you'veactually been there and been
through it and understand it,and now you're on the other side
of it, which I think is great.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
Yeah, well, thanks for saying that.
That's a whole otherconversation.
The book smart side of theexperiential side and how that
fits into, even like the hiringprocess in the nhl and stuff,
right, and the decision makersand what's going on.
Um, I'm probably eight yearsaway from a degree and in
whatever that category would beto.
You know, get me through theacademic door, uh, which is why

(01:33:30):
those guys like that played andalso have that are very, even
rarer than me.
Right, like enjoying it.
But, uh, for what I'm doing inthe amateur environment, in the
amateur space, I do feel very,very comfortable with what I'm
teaching and and and how I andhow I provide the message and
there's obviously a lot ofplayers out there that can, that
can use it and I think, evenmore so than ever.
Like I said, I'm just seeing itnow show up, just uh, yeah,

(01:33:53):
it's a very common thing and alot of guys want to play, of
course, and it's just, it's funto see the differences they can
make and that's really a crazything, right, like a young
brendan convery at 21, if theycould have found somebody you
know, an older brendan converyat 40 to sit you down, who knows
what that would have lookedlike, or could have looked like
right.
Yeah, you never know I'd befishing well, you better warm

(01:34:16):
that that spare room up for me.
All right, anytime, anytime,all right, thanks.
Thank you for listening to theconversation with Brandon
Convery, episode 140 of the Atmy Hockey podcast.
As I said at the intro, brandonwas one hell of a hockey player

(01:34:41):
High hockey IQ, super talented,very agile, a playmaking,
creative centerman that I reallyenjoyed playing with.
He made the game easy for me,although we rip each other
behind well, not behind eachother's backs, that's not what I
meant to say we rip each otheropenly to each other's faces

(01:35:01):
about how I carried him, and hesays he carried me, and so we
have.
We have good fun with that.
But the reality was we wereactually a pretty good combo,
although Brandon could couldscore on his own, no question,
he he was.
He was a guy that liked to dishthe puck and he'd like to uh,
find people who could find openice, and that was something that
I was good at, and uh and wasgood at distributing the puck

(01:35:25):
into the net.
So, uh, we had some goodchemistry together.
It was an honor to play withhim at the NHL level and at the
AHL level, and and just hisstory was one of those that you
know, is near and dear to myheart.
Uh, because you know there'ssome parallels between the two
of us and many other players outthere where it comes to a why
didn't it work out?

(01:35:45):
Sometimes it's opportunity,sometimes it's taking advantage
of the opportunity when it's infront of you.
Sometimes we get in our own waywhen it comes to our ability to
assess the situation and whatour response is to that
situation.
For Brandon, he said he was astress case essentially the
entire time that he was a pro.

(01:36:05):
And when you're not enjoyingyourself and you're not enjoying
the game and you're not havingthe time to relax away from the
game, your system is always onhigh alert.
We talk about theparasympathetic system that
needs to be activated so we canrest and we can relax.

(01:36:26):
And when you're always in highalert and feeling like you can't
trust anybody and feelingthere's nobody there that's got
your best interest at heart, itcan be very, very taxing on the
human side of the game and andagain, I don't think that it it
hurt necessarily Brandon's game,which is, which is what can be
so troublesome.
You know when you are producingat the, you know the level

(01:36:49):
underneath the NHL and andproducing at over a point of
game pace and being one of thetop scorers in the league and
and you are supposed to be aplaymaking, you know, point
producing player.
Uh, you can imagine why Brennanwas wondering why he wasn't
hearing his name called on ateam that you know wasn't in the

(01:37:09):
playoffs and a team that shouldhave been trying to rebuild and
develop its young players.
And and so Brennan's not alonein these scenarios.
I mean where you get drafted tomatters, who's in front of you
matters in the lineup, what thedevelopment process is like,
it's not the same for everyplayer and every player has to
deal with it in their own wayand in their own circumstances.
And trying to build thatsupport system around the player

(01:37:34):
having somebody that they cantrust, having somebody that they
can trust, having somebody thatthey can lean on, that they can
talk to is a very, very wisething to do, and some players
need it more than others.
I mean, quite frankly,obviously, maybe not every
player does need it.
I mean I do think that thereshould be somebody around that
is available, but every playeris going to want to talk more is

(01:37:54):
going to.
Maybe some are going to want totalk less.
Some some want constant contact.
I mean, that's a that's apersonality thing, but the end
of the day, being able to managethe the path through pro hockey
and into pro if you're everlucky enough to play pro is
daunting.
There's a lot that goes on withit, and to think that at 18

(01:38:17):
through 25, that these playersare supposed to be able to
figure it out on their own andthat they're just going to come
out rosy on the other side, Ithink is not the wisest approach
.
So I hope you learned a lotfrom Brandon and I's discussion
today that it's not just abouttalent at all.
It's about opportunity, it'sabout process, it's about

(01:38:40):
support, it's about mindset.
It's about so much more thanjust being an amazing hockey
player.
If you want to get to thehighest level, or even whatever
level that might be for you asan individual, whatever your NHL
is, it's going to take a team.
So, yes, that was a long timecoming.

(01:39:00):
Brandon, if you did listen, Ireally appreciate you being on.
You know that I do.
I always love our conversationsand thanks to all of those who
listened to the entire thing.
And until next time, play hardand keep your head up.

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EP.140 - Brandon Convery: Navigating the Highs and Lows of a Professional Hockey Career

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP.140 - Brandon Convery: Navigating the Highs and Lows of a Professional Hockey Career