Former NHL player and Stanley Cup champion Jamal Mayers joins us for a fascinating journey through the ice, as we explore what it takes to reach your potential in hockey. We reminisce about our own encounters on the rink, including that unforgettable NHL game between Toronto and LA, and delve into Jamal’s current adventures coaching his son's impressively ranked youth team. With fellow ex-NHLers by his side as assistant coaches, Jamal offers a treasure trove of insights into the joys and challenges of mentoring young players, stressing the importance of consistency and foundational skills.
Our conversation shifts to the shifting landscape of junior and college hockey, where we dissect the recent NCAA policy change that allows Canadian Hockey League players to accept scholarships. This significant shift could rewrite the North American hockey playbook, with college teams now favoring older freshmen. We examine how these changes might influence leagues like the WHL and BCJ, and the newfound freedom players have in crafting their developmental paths, adding a new layer of complexity to the sport’s future.
Finally, we dive into the realm of youth hockey tournaments and coaching philosophies. The upcoming UMH 68 tournament promises an exciting platform for young players to shine, and we share personal coaching experiences that emphasize accountability, effort, and honest feedback. By weaving in anecdotes from my own journey coaching my son's team, we explore the delicate balance of being both a parent and a coach, and the importance of fostering a culture where young athletes can own their journey, ultimately crafting a holistic understanding of hockey development.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joe Vitale and I, we talk about like we aren't going
to do new things for the sake ofnewness.
So it looks new, oh, it's a newday, new, no, no, no.
The warm-up and the stickhandling and all these things
that we're doing, thefoundational elements, whether
it's a backhand or a toe drag orwhatever it is, it's going to
be the same every day because ittakes that repetitiveness, that
(00:22):
consistently doing it, to getbetter.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That was 915 game.
Nhl veteran and Stanley Cupchampion, jamal Myers, and you
(00:57):
are listening to the Up myHockey podcast with Jason
Padolan.
Oh oh, oh oh.
Won NHL games but thought hewas destined for a thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hello there and welcome back tothe Up my Hockey podcast with
Jason Padolan.
I am your host, jason Padolan,and we are here for episode 143
(01:20):
in the series and Jamal Myers isjoining us today.
Jamal Myers is somebody that isactually I'm looking at his bio
here now.
He's actually two years olderthan me, so he was born in 74,
but we did cross paths in theminors and in the NHL.
I get right into it here in theinterview.
(01:41):
We actually fought in the NHL.
It was the last game of theseason in 1999, I believe St
Louis versus Los Angeles, and Istarted with that.
It wasn't a plan, it just sortof came to mind and Jamal
remembered it, so we revisitthat.
But we definitely did playagainst each other when he was
(02:01):
with Worcester as well and I waswith the St John Maple Leafs.
So a little bit of a historythere, and Jamal was nice enough
to come on the program todayand discuss some of his time in
the NHL, his journey into it,but mostly we talk about
actually youth hockey.
Surprisingly enough, I don'tever have a game plan laid out
(02:25):
for how the interview is goingto go, but Jamal has a son, a
2012-born son, that he is headcoaching right now.
It's a good team.
I guess he said it's the15th-ranked team in the US.
He's got a couple assistantcoaches with him that are also
ex-NHLers with sons on the teamand they're having a ton of fun
doing it.
So that's what the car theconversation shifted to quite
(02:46):
quickly.
And then we also conclude withuh the new development of the
ncaa accepting canadian hockeyleague players.
Uh into the scheme, into thefold.
They're now able to acceptscholarships after playing major
junior hockey.
So we discussed the potentialimpact that may have and, all in
all, it was a good conversation.
It was a short conversation,you know, considering where my
(03:12):
podcasts usually end or startand end, and it was about a
40-minute conversation todaybecause Joval had other
arrangements, so we kept itshort and sweet.
We definitely could have talkedlonger, that is for sure, but
today is a little bit of anabbreviated interview from what
you're used to if you're along-time listener.
So yeah, well, let's get rightinto it.
(03:33):
It was awesome talking withJamal.
I mean, for those of you whodon't know Jamal, I guess I
should give you his hockey DB alittle bit.
He came out of Thornhill, he'sfrom Toronto, originally came
out of Thornhill, the Met JHL,and he says in the interview
that he always wanted to playOHL but he wasn't good enough at
the time when he had to makethe decision.
(03:55):
But he was able to get ascholarship to Western Michigan
University where he played fouryears and got drafted there his
first year playing at WesternMichigan.
He went on to play with theWorcesters, split time with the
Blues until he became afull-time St Louis Blue in
99-2000.
And then from there,essentially the rest was history
(04:16):
.
He played for the Blues forlooks like seven or eight
seasons, ended or had a stop inToronto with the Maple Leafs,
which we never talked about atall, but playing for his
hometown I'm sure was specialWent from there to Calgary, to
the San Jose Sharks and endedwith Chicago where he was able
to hoist a cup in 2013, Ibelieve.
So, yeah, a lot of his careerwe actually didn't touch on.
(04:38):
But at the end of the day,jamal played 915 games in the
NHL, scored 90 goals, 219 pointsand 1200 penalty minutes, and
also 63 playoff games.
So a super, super successfulcareer.
He also represented Canada atthe World Championships in 2000.
So lots, lots for him to beproud of with his career.
(04:58):
Now he's trying to pass that onto the next generation there in
the St Louis area.
So without further ado, I bringyou Jamal Mayers.
All right, here we are forepisode 143 with an old
adversary of mine, longtimeNHLer, mr Jamal Mayers.
Thanks for being on the program, sir.
Great to be here.
(05:19):
Good to see you again.
I love the beard.
Yeah well, hey, what do you do,hey, I?
started growing it out and I'mlike what the hell?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
happened to my dark beard?
I hear you.
I shaved mine so you can't seethe gray.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, I know, actually, my hair itself isn't
nearly as bad as my beard.
I don't let the hair grow veryoften, but yeah, this is very
different than 10 years ago.
Facebook will flash up memoriesor whatever.
I'm like that was 10 years ago.
It looked really dark and blackand, uh, I guess three kids and
you know all the things thathappen.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
it's, uh, it happens, but that's right, just gotta
own it man just gotta own itabsolutely um, yeah, awesome to
have you on.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I was actually uh, chuckling because I was looking
at your, at your DB and whichdidn't exist right Like back
when we played, which is socrazy, cause we had no idea
where guys were coming from,where they played, you know like
what their, what their resumewas like, and uh, and I had to
chuckle because when we, whenyou got your instigator for
(06:24):
jumping me in LA, do youremember that?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Cause some guys don't remember.
I'm kind of a bad memory butthat stuff too.
But I didn't have many fightsand you had more than I did.
So I didn't know if you'dremember, but I was looking at
that and we were both kind of inthe same, in the same point of
our careers, of like trying tobe NHLers at that point, like
you weren't necessarily cemented.
Um, of like trying to be NHLersat that point, like you weren't
necessarily cemented, um, Idon't know if that's a good
place to start or not, but Ibrought it up.
I was, I was thinking aboutthat game and I'll give you my
(06:51):
backstory.
Um, just so you know where Iwas at.
So I had just got traded, uh,from Toronto to LA.
Uh, parole went back the otherway.
They started me off in longbeach.
Uh, had some time in the NHL upto then, like with Toronto and
with Florida and this was goingto be my third team and they'd
called me up so for the last sixgames of the season and LA was
(07:12):
out of the playoffs.
You guys weren't by the soundsof it, but it was like a mean
nothing game, like you guyscouldn't move at all in the
standings and we were done andit was one of those flat,
nothing happening games,essentially right at the end of
the year, and I shouldn't havebeen actually handling it that
way, apparently like I didn'tthink that I was, but apparently
(07:33):
, like according to LarryRobinson, he was not happy.
He like was up one side of meand down the other because I
wasn't trying hard enough,apparently in that last game, 82
of the season.
So of course, at the start ofthe third period I'm like well,
okay, f, this let's go Right.
So I start hitting.
Nobody's hitting in the game atall, right, so I'm in the
corner, I hit you, do whateveryou turn around, and I grabbed
me from behind and we get inthis fight.
(07:53):
What is your recollection?
Were you kind of in the samemode as me, like were you trying
to make a statement yourself orwere you just pissed off that I
hit you, or do you rememberanything about that at all?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
honestly, I don't remember why it happened, but I
can assume that I wasn't happywith no one hitting the entire
game, that you decided thatthat's when you're gonna start
to hit, so I probably was likethis is not happening, we're
gonna fight, right which isexactly what I knew would happen
.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
That was the funniest thing.
It's like you want me to be theonly one out here, like running
around, and I guess I shouldhave had that mindset.
I mean really doing what I donow, like I should have been
worried about me making theright impression and like not
looking like I was a tenuredveteran when I wasn't, but I was
also like, uh, I think, prettyakin to the social aspect of
that.
You know, like, and maybe Icouldn't like, step like step, I
(08:42):
wasn't comfortable enoughstepping out of that void.
Um, and then Larry Robinsonobviously pushed me out of that
void and it turns out you knowthat we, we both get five
minutes and I'm in the box, butuh, kind of an interesting spot.
Hey, like, maybe that is a goodspot, like making yourself
relevant in the NHL or atwhatever level, like the steps
required to do that.
What was your mindset like whenyou were stepping in, trying to
(09:04):
make a name for yourself?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That's a great point.
I think for me it was alwaysabout um affecting the game
somehow and you know, especiallyearly on I want.
That for me was being physical,using my speed and getting in
on the four check and being adisruptor.
I played college hockey, so Ididn't fight, we didn't.
I never fought in junior.
(09:27):
I didn't play junior, I didn't.
So my first fights were in theminors, my first fights were in
the NHL.
And so the good thing is I wasstrong enough to like protect
myself and usually through thefirst few years I could like
protect myself enough that if Iwanted to punch, I could punch,
and if I didn't feel comfortablebecause the guy was definitely
(09:49):
a better fighter than me, Icould at least survive enough to
make it look good.
Um, but I think mindset wisefor me was always a survival
mindset, like how do I stay here?
Especially because I've spenttwo years in the minors in
Worcester and I like people ofWorcester have been nice, we're
(10:11):
nice, but people would ask mefrom home like how are things?
And I would say they've neverbeen Worcester, like I do not
want to live here, like thiscan't be, I might as well go
back to go to grad school neverbeen Worcester, that's awesome
so that's what I would say,because I I had told myself, if
I don't make the NHL after thisthree-year entry-level deal,
(10:33):
that I'm going back to school.
It just it just wasn't for me to.
I don't know how to explain it.
I just I wanted to play in theNHL and if it wasn't the NHL,
then I wasn't, I didn't want todo it and it wasn't.
So I had this like fear, evenwhen I made it, that like it was
going to be taken away.
And I remember every trainingcamp, literally every year,
(10:57):
until my last year pro, I stillhad that feeling where you know
how it is, every training campthey say, oh, these two young
kids, they're really good,they're gonna, they're gonna vie
for a spot and I'm thinkingthey're not taking my spot.
No, not this year, it's nextyear, they can do it next year
or somewhere else, not gonna behere.
So and I remember like talkingto like ryan johnson, who's now
(11:19):
assistant gm in uh for vancouver, and we would laugh because
there's all these guys, like youknow how it is the first week
before training camp.
There's no hitting, there'sjust guys out there flying and
they're all like, oh, did yousee that guy from Switzerland?
He's unbelievable.
I'm like I can't wait to runhim over, like, like he's, he's
(11:41):
not going to be that good oncewe hit him.
And it was a different time then, so it was a different.
There was this the fear factorwas a lot more prevalent,
certainly, than it is now, andso that, to me, was a skill that
you honed in on that you couldlike use.
Not that you weren't nice topeople on the ice or like off
(12:01):
the ice, but like you wanted tokeep that uncertainty for me was
keep people uncertain attraining camp, uncertain within
games.
I didn't really talk to guysduring games, in games, and even
when I knew someone, kind of Ididn't want to talk to them and
(12:21):
they would be like what the heckman, we worked out together all
summer and you're not evengoing to say hi to me, like I.
I liked the fact that they werewondering like what a jerk?
Like why would?
And then after the game I texthim hey, sorry, I just don't
talk during the games, like I'lltalk to you after and so.
But that was an edge, right,cause then maybe they spent
three shifts wondering likewhat's wrong with this guy?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
yeah, that's a competitive advantage and I
think I've talked about it onhere before.
How do you feel, like becauseyou said it has changed like
those that can bring that, uh,that aspect to the game?
Now it has to mean even more, Iwould think it does.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And I remember talking I was leaving the game
my last year was 2013 and and Iremember talking to keith kachuk
aboutuk, about Matthew cominginto the league, and I remember
telling him I said I said, walt,I know you retired Like maybe
it was four years ago.
I go there.
There is nobody tough anymoreplaying Like.
There's maybe, yes, there's sixguys in the league that are
(13:21):
super tough.
That could certainly beat me up, but there's there.
There's not how it used to bewhen you and I were playing,
where every lineup had three orfour guys willing to.
Like.
Now I think you look at thelineup and they maybe, they
maybe have one or they don'thave anybody that's willing to.
And I said, if, if matthew'sjust even willing to and willing
(13:41):
to to me is fight three times ayear if you're willing to, you
are going to create spacebecause 98 of the players do not
want anything to do with it.
Yeah, and so I agree with you.
It has become even more of alike a, an advantage, if you
will to use that element to likecreate space for yourself and
(14:05):
for your teammates and your linemates and like the new tough
player is a different player.
Like it's, yeah, it's, it'sMatthew, it's, it's even um,
what's his name?
Number nine on there's on thesame team for Florida, um, who
doesn't fight very often either,but like, like, that's what
toughness is now.
And so if you can just build ina little, forget toughness,
(14:29):
because I think sometimes itgets misconstrued because I know
the game has changed.
But if you can change thewording and say, like, if you
have a little bit ofunpredictability within your
game, an uncertainty and Ialways marveled at a guy like
Chris Fong was my roommate forfour or five years, nice guy in
the room, just an absoluteterror in front of the net, not
(14:50):
a nice person.
He would viciously use his stickagainst someone at least twice
a year.
And I remember talking to himsaying what are you doing there?
Why would you do that?
He goes oh, I'm going to dothat every year, twice a year,
(15:11):
so that guys that I'm playingagainst when I say I might carve
your eye out or cross-check youin the face.
Well, he has done it twice ayear, every year, and he's like
it's worth it for me to take asuspension, even if I have to
take a suspension to keep peopleaway from me.
I'm not a big guy, I'm justkind of slight and I was like
that's brilliant, it's geniusand it's a different game today.
But I think that I believe thatthe rules regress in the
(15:35):
playoffs.
Five years the game is stillwhat it was five years ago in
the playoffs.
So the element of physicality,the element of intimidation, the
fact that you're playing a teamover the course of the best of
seven, it becomes it.
How do I get even the tiniestof edge?
And and that physical, mentaledge sometimes is the difference
(15:59):
yeah, yeah, I know I love you.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Everything you say in there is is, is so on point
like that element of predictiveunpredictability, um, of actual
like safety, you know, likeyou're, you know, there there's
we talk about fear, andespecially what I do now with
like the mindset of that, youknow, and how to handle it in
different capacities and andit's not the same as it once was
(16:23):
, but there is still fearinvolved in the game from, uh,
you know, am I going to get hit?
Where am I vulnerable?
If I go to the front of the net, what happens, you know?
I mean, if I say this, whathappens?
And and some of that has beentaken away with the rules and
the way the game is, but therestill is an element of it.
When you were taught like backand again back back, when we
played, there was like there wasthe constant threat of pain and
(16:44):
like hurt, you know, and andthere was a lot of guys in the
team that would do that, andthat is one of the things for me
personally, being a goal scorerin that era, that I'm really
proud of is that, yeah, I woulddrop my gloves time and again
too, but that wasn't really partof who I was, it was part of
the era.
But the ability to get to theplaces to score goals and
knowing that you were going toget hurt in the process of doing
it, like that's a mind screw.
(17:05):
You know to have to go and dothat and um, and for me that's
where I don't like that the gameis regressed because it's too
easy to score.
I think now you know there'sless, there's less bravery
involved in it.
You know there's less courageinvolved and it's just like a
high skill, yes, and there'stons of respect for the, for the
skill level and how to do that.
In this context, the mindsetside of it, I think isn't quite
(17:28):
what it was and I don't know.
Like, that's just me and kindof my viewpoint, but, um, I do
love watching playoff hockey nowbecause I think that comes back
.
I do think it comes back.
You have to pay more of a pricein different areas to to get
the job done and and that's whysome guys are successful there
and some guys aren't.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Now, it's, it's in it .
I don't think that's ever goingto change.
And those players that there'sgoing to be some of them, some
of them happen to be on theLeafs, if you're a Leafs friend.
But either they're going tofigure that out and be willing
to do it or they're going tospend their entire career not
having success in the playoffs.
And that's the truth, becauseeven though you could have
(18:07):
referees on here and say no, no,no, we referee the same way in
the playoffs.
No, you don't, no, you don't,you don't, the intensity
ratchets up and you can't, orelse the game wouldn't have a
flow to it.
So you have to let some of itgo and I like the game where it
(18:28):
it is.
I think it becomes even theferocity of it.
I think I I like more in theplayoffs.
It becomes more exciting.
It's, it's uh, it's funny.
You talk about that nervousnessand that that factor.
It was certainly there and notto keep this digressing about
when we play, but there was aprice to pay.
Just getting to the front ofthe net was either a slash, a
(18:49):
slight accidentally on purposepunch to the face, a cross check
on the ribs or, like on yourarm, where they know you're not,
we're vulnerable.
It was something on the way tothe net you were getting, so you
knew that if I'm going to thenet, mcsorley's gonna punch me
in the face for no reason.
The ref's just gonna say, well,you decided to go there.
(19:10):
Like that's what they would sayyeah, yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
No, you know the connection to how the game is
now, and I do think I mean youknow we're joking about being
dinosaurs and talking about backwhen we played, but I think
that the relevance ofunderstanding the game then does
help today's player, at leastfor me from a coaching aspect,
because when I'm talking withsome junior kid who has a high
skill player, who is more of aperimeter guy, and I'm saying,
hey, when you're driving the net, if you get to the far post
(19:36):
every time you're going to scoremany more goals and it's a
brave place to go and there'sless consequences for you doing
it now.
So, like you know, like we, wehave.
We have the experiential factorof being like, yeah, that was
hard and like I was able to do,and I would take X, y and Z in
order to make that happen.
Now, if you can get these guysto understand the value of
getting there, it's just it's.
(19:58):
It's a value to them.
You know what I mean.
And it's not as a heart of aplace to go anymore.
But there still is anuncomfortability about it
because their experience withthe game is just their
experience with the game, right,like they haven't experienced,
like how it was before.
So, anyways, there's still waysto score goals and still areas
to score goals, right, that willnever change.
It's just who's willing to gothere and I think if we can get
(20:21):
some guys to do that, it's kindof fun.
I know I'm working with my12-year-old on that right now.
He likes to get wide, but thenhe constantly will try and go
short side and usually ends upbehind the net.
I'm like put the leg out, getto the far post and you have way
more options, right, absolutely.
Anyways, what a wild ride tosee the game now from our
vantage point of being a playerand now the next generation
(20:43):
coming under us and helping themand using our experiences,
hopefully in a positive way forthese young guys coming up.
Just going to take a short breakfrom the conversation with
Jamal Mayers to give a shout outto my partners at Elite
Prospects, the gateway to hockeyOnline.
(21:05):
Since 1999, eliteprospectscomis the number one statistical
hockey resource, serving over amillion unique visitors weekly.
It offers the most informativehockey player database on the
web and has the most reliabletransaction tracker available
For youth hockey players.
Ep is your very own onlineshowcase to highlight your
(21:26):
achievements and help securefuture playing opportunities
Coaches, scouts and schools atevery level of the game.
Consider Elite Prospects theirone-stop shop to discover future
stars, hockey fan, crazy aboutthe NHL, the draft and your
team's top prospects?
There's no better resource thanEP Rinkside, providing insight
and analysis on playersworldwide through written
(21:48):
features, video breakdowns,interviews and more.
Head to EliteProspectscom nowand experience your gateway to
hockey.
The Elite Prospects is a partnerwith the UMH 68 as well.
That's how we came into thispartnership and the UMH 68 is
rocking and rolling for 2025.
(22:10):
So if you are in Western Canadaand you have an athlete either
2011 or 2012 age Western Canadameaning Manitoba 11 or 2012 age
Western Canada meaning Manitoba,saskatchewan, alberta or
British Columbia check outupmyhockeycom to see what is
coming to your province.
We will be in Brandon, we willbe in Martinsville, we will be
(22:33):
in Edmonton and we will be backagain in Vernon for another year
with different age groups.
This is a best on bestcompetition.
It is a tournament unlike anyother.
There's a very large developmentfocus, with workshops for
players and parents throughoutplayer banquet.
There's all-star awards and MVPgame awards and there is color
(22:55):
commentators and NHL coaches andall kinds of good stuff to be
had at the UMH 68 and somethingyou want to be a part of.
So check out upmyhockeycom.
You can put in what I call aplayer watch list request.
We do have scouts in everyprovince looking at the age
(23:15):
group in question.
We also use a network, meaningcoaches and managers can refer
players and parents can requestthat their players get watched
and we can take a look atwhether you are worthy of an
invitation or not to the UMH 68.
So check it out.
Umh 68, western Canada in 2025,in June, coming to a city near
(23:37):
you.
Are you one of the top 68?
Let us know your name atupmyhockeycom.
Jamal, tell us about who youhave in the stable here
following in your footsteps.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, my girls are both soccer players.
I have a freshman at KansasState playing soccer.
She's a midfielder.
She started the nine games as afreshman, which is kind of cool
.
My younger daughter is a juniorin high school.
She just committed to go to thesame school, so she's going to
kansas state in a couple years,in 2026.
So it'll be nice.
They'll be together for acouple years anyway.
(24:14):
Um, and then my son is theyoungest.
He's at 2012, just turned 12last Saturday, and so happy
birthday.
That's it.
Yeah, coaching him for the lastfew years has been a ton of fun
, similarly to you.
Like this it's nice to have.
For us, we started AAA lastyear, so last year was became
(24:37):
really enjoyable, because nowyou're having like-minded kids
all together, right, and thatchanges the dynamic of what
you're able to do and how you'reable to motivate, what you're
able to show them and get themto understand the game.
And now we're at a point wherewe're where we're, our our
philosophy with our group is toreward the intention.
(24:59):
We want them making plays, wewant them trying to make do
things, we want them, you know,having fun being on the
offensive side of things.
But we, we have an expectationand a standard that that they've
set, and we we set the standardfor them at the beginning of
the year, and then we'rebasically just stewards and
(25:19):
reminding them of the standardfor them at the beginning of the
year, and then we're basicallyjust stewards and reminding them
of the standard that theycreated.
And so what I try to do, we tryto do and I'm lucky I've got
Matt Lashoff and Joe Vitale, whoboth played in the NHL and
their sons are on the team aswell is that we all have
different strengths as coachesand perhaps more I'm more the
disciplinarian one sometimes,but I think that we play each
(25:42):
other's roles nicely is that Itry to keep them accountable to
the standard that they createdfor themselves, and so that
creates that compete level andthat creates the non-negotiables
that we've created.
Whether it's tracking orwhether it's making sure we
tracking or whether it's, youknow, making sure we have a
third guy high, like these arenon-negotiable elements that
(26:05):
have been embedded into our game.
We play a swarm I probablyshouldn't tell you that so that
if we play you guys, you canfigure it out and use it against
us.
But we're doing things andwe're starting to add in layers
of our game where we're creatingmovement and overlapping and
things like that in theoffensive zone and and really
trying to like follow the trendof where we see the game going,
(26:27):
not only where it is now, butwhere we see it going, so that
they have that skill set now.
Because of that, we may nottechnically I think we're 15th
in the country we may lose somegames because we're we're going
to turn pucks over, becausewe're overlapping when they
shouldn't have.
You've got to live with some ofthose mistakes, but I would
prefer that they learn how toplay with the puck and value the
(26:48):
puck and possess the puck.
My feeling is that 15, 16, likewe can teach them.
Like they still have tounderstand the time score
situation and where to put thepuck and what, and the value
Sometimes you just got to get itin, but at the end of shifts.
But we also want the makingplays, so you're going to we
live with some mistakes that weprobably won't have to live with
(27:11):
when they're 15, but I thinkit's important and I think that
the challenge I'm sure you feelas well is halfway through the
year.
We all do this as coaches.
We're like oh my goodness, whatis wrong with him?
There's usually two or threekids who are just like oh Well,
you know what?
I always remind myself Well, wepicked him, we picked him, we
(27:32):
got to coach him, we got to gethim there.
Somehow we got to get him there.
And we can't just say it's nothappening, we've got to push
them aside.
No, no, no.
We've got to find a way, we'vegot to figure out a way between
us coaches to find a way to getthe best out of them, make them
understand what we're trying toaccomplish, try to get them to a
confidence place, which is sodifficult, right?
Because some of the times theyinternalize it as well.
(27:55):
You're just getting mad at me.
Well, some of it's effort, Mostof it to me, is effort.
It's not the execution part.
The execution part is going tocome and go, but I don't know
about you, but for me it's theeffort in situations that we
have to keep them accountabletoward.
And so that's that's thechallenge making sure they know
we care, right, making sure theyknow we care, but also being
(28:19):
stern to know that perhaps theyget a little easy at home
nowadays, like so I tell ourkids all the time.
I said I'm not gonna lie to you.
I said your grandma's pickingyou up, you know she's gonna say
great game, great game, jimmy,you did awesome.
And I said I had this funnyspeech right.
I said he's he's lying to you.
She's lying if grandma tells toyou, she's lying.
(28:40):
If grandma tells you a greatgame, she's lying.
That was not a great game.
And so one of the kids wenthome and the mom didn't go to
the game.
And the mom said well, I heardyou had a really good game.
Grandma said you had a greatsee, coach, said.
You would say I played a greatgame, we were terrible.
You're lying to me.
The parents actually told methat story, so I started
(29:02):
laughing.
I'm like yeah, I did tell himthat.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I did tell him you'd say that, yeah, coach dynamics,
right, the, the honesty.
I think that that is I mean,not that I want to dwell on that
, but but one of the things thatI think my players like to hear
from me and that's whether I'mcoaching a compete team or
whether I'm working withsomebody on mindset is like the
truth, at least my version ofthe truth.
Right, and I think that so fewpeople hear the truth right.
(29:26):
Even like that exercise ofhearing the truth and then
recognizing what you can do withthat information one way or the
other is like a skill set, inmy opinion.
Right, because how many timeshave you walked into a coach's
office and asked for somethingor demanded something or asked a
question and maybe you heard aresponse that you didn't want to
hear at the pro level?
Now, what are you going to dowith that information?
Right, right, and I think ifthey can learn this stuff now,
(29:49):
you know at 12, and be honestwith the thing now there's, now
there is, there's the process ofthe self-awareness aspect,
right, the now, the reset, thereprogram, what I learned from
that, what can I do differentnext time to get a different
result If they're just goingthrough it, especially the AAA
level.
I mean, that's that's for thoselistening.
(30:10):
That's the context we'retalking about here.
We're talking about competitivekids who want to be better at
the game.
There needs to be some type ofa process self.
There needs to be some type ofa process, self-assessment
process for them to get better.
If they're constantly toldthey're doing a good job, then
that just they don't.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
You're not allowing them the opportunity that's a
great point and I think what Ilike about it, doing it this way
, is that now you're giving,putting the choice back on them.
Now it's their choice.
Are you choosing to take thisinformation and get better and
take and try it our way, whichmight be uncomfortable?
And I think sometimes and I'llsay this to some people last
(30:46):
year, not so much this year butI'm not going to solve Johnny's
problem by putting him with adifferent player I need him to
hunt sometimes.
I like that.
He's smart and he likes tohover and he likes to find the
quiet area.
But sometimes he needs to hunt.
It can't just be everybody elsehunting and he's doing that.
(31:07):
So I'm not going to fix it forhim and change the lineup,
change the line, just because Iknow it'll.
Let him just do what he likesto do.
I'm going to make himuncomfortable, because what
happens if he's not scoring orhe's not affecting the game
positively because he'sproducing, how else is he going
to affect the game?
He's got to find another way toaffect the game.
(31:29):
Or else I'm making himone-dimensional because I'm
happy he scored two goals, butreally I don't think he played
well.
You know I mean like.
So that's the challenge is,like I always tell, we have a
really one of our players is anearly 2013.
He was born in January,technically 13.
So he's a 13.
And he's playing on our 2012s.
(31:53):
And you know, sometimes I'lltell him, I'll say do you want
to be a goal scorer or do youwant to be a hockey player
Because you're a goal scorer?
Do you want to be a goal scoreror do you want to be a hockey
player Because you're a goalscorer?
There's no question.
But to be a hockey player,you're going to have to change
some things.
You're going to have to try ita different way sometimes,
because, as I'm sure you'reaware, like sometimes, those
guys will go through the gameand the game will end, and
they'll be like what happened?
I didn't get anything.
(32:14):
I'm like, well, you should haverecognize that eight minutes in
and made the adjustment to getmore on the hunt, and then then,
then, it'll flow for you.
So it's, it's so much fun toshow them this part, to teach
them this part to when they'reaccepting of it, and then,
though, the light will go on,the big oh, okay yeah, you're
right I get it I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, I mean building the.
There's so many dynamics.
My two right now, my two outplayers, so my 0-9 and my 12,
they're both more playmakers,right, and you're talking about
hunting.
So they want the puck andthey're good at distributing it,
but when they don't have thepuck, they're so anxious to get
(32:57):
into the mix right, because theywant the puck that they forget
that quiet, quiet ice and theyalso take themselves out of that
area to score.
So it's funny, like right nowin our own home, like that's
what I'm working on with them.
It's like being above the puck,being above the play, let it
happen and then jump into a seam, you know.
So you can be the one that getsthe shot, not always the one
that's setting somebody up forit.
But, yeah, everyone has theirlike, their tendencies, right,
(33:20):
which is great.
And if you want to expand,expand yourself, I mean, that is
the way you have to see thegame.
You have to be able to see itfrom as many ways as possible,
and it's great that you're,you're given to your, your boys,
the opportunity there to seethat.
On the minor hockey kind oftopic that we're on here, the
(33:44):
father, son um, is one of themost.
Uh, I don't know what the rightway to put it is, but there's
been a lot of bad experiences.
Let's just say that in in myhockey community, I got my
hockey facebook group and andthere's a lot of discussion
about that right like the uh,what is that called?
When parents take care of theirown kids?
There's some word for nepotismyeah.
So the nepotism involved, rightthat you know the, the cap, the,
the dad's son has the sea allthe time and gets the most ice.
It might not be the best player, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
(34:06):
blah.
Um, I, when I started, I was sohyper aware of that that I
actually took the oppositedirection, and I'll just tell
you a quick story.
It was like two months into theseason we were coming home from
a game and I almost choke upanytime I've ever tell the story
.
But Hudson said to me he's like,dad, why don't you coach me
like the way you coach everybodyelse?
Like I wouldn't talk to him,like I was doing the opposite,
(34:28):
because I was like so focused ofnot being that guy that I was
involved and invest in everybodyelse and I wouldn't even invest
in my own kid, right.
So I took it, I took it too farthe one way, and now I found a.
You know, the longer you dosomething, obviously the better
you get at it now.
Now I think I found a reallygood balance of being able to
coach my own kids along witheverybody else's.
But how have you taken that?
And and where is your awarenessat with your, you know,
(34:49):
involvement with your own son,who obviously you care about and
and you know, and hisinvolvement in the game well,
it's a work in progress.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, I'm definitely harder on him in the way that I
speak to him in games.
I have less patience with him,so I think I have to work on how
that communication happens.
What I'd like to get to is apoint where it's one of the
other coaches that arecommunicating to him, because I
(35:22):
am very quick to get on himabout certain things, or like
reads, or if he's not beingaggressive enough or hard enough
, or doesn't come to the benchhard enough, it's like, or
extends his shifts too long.
So it's it's definitely achallenge.
I think that I am harder on him.
(35:43):
I think that his makeup is hecan handle it.
He'll come back at me atsometimes too, but we're still
figuring that out because Idon't think it's healthy to
continue that.
I also do check-ins with him,like to know, like that I care
that I want the best for him,but that only goes so far.
(36:04):
I think that I have to getbetter at just letting it happen
and letting the other coachesdo it.
What I see is I think it's justto be honest with you, it's
probably more on me.
I've got to get better at it inhow I communicate with him in
(36:24):
game um.
He also needs to do a betterjob of receiving that feedback
when it happens, yeah and so.
But I'm the adult so I think Ithink it all like 90 of 90.
I'll take on me and like soI've tried a new approach.
At times I'm not great at it,but I have tried a new approach
(36:44):
with him where I'll say I'm notgoing to yell at you, I'm going
to sit you down, I'm going totalk to you calmly, but then you
have to take the informationand like, use it.
You can't just ignore me whenI'm telling, communicating the
way you have chosen, that youwould like me to communicate
with you, right, yeah and so.
But there's times where I doget on him about skating,
(37:07):
because sometimes he getswatching and the problem is not
problem but the part that as acoach is, sometimes you get the
reaction you want and you'relike it worked.
So it's like I'm going to haveto do that again.
So you know when you need moreout of them and you need a spark
(37:27):
, you need something.
That's.
It's hard because when I havegotten on them, it's if I did
that to my middle daughter, shewould shut down, it'd be, it'd
be done, my older one.
I could get on him, get on hard, and she would respond well, it
would be done my older one.
I could get on hard and shewould respond.
Well, when I get on him heresponds positively more times
than not.
(37:48):
So it's I will say I'm not goodat it, it's a work in progress.
It's the reason why I probably,you know, at 15, like you know,
you're kind of like where's thenext coach for him?
like when is that happening?
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's nice that we havedifferent voices.
Like phil mccray comes out onwednesdays basically helps run
(38:11):
all or the whole practice, theyget a different voice as a group
.
Um, it's healthy for them tohave a different voice and all
three of us coaches coachdifferently, right?
So that's a long-winded answerto tell you that I'm not very
good at it and that it's a workin progress.
(38:31):
But I think, having thosecheck-ins with him on the way
home, I asked him do you want totalk about the game?
Do you want to talk about it?
Sometimes it's yes, sometimesit's no.
On the way to the game, I can'thelp myself.
Sometimes I'm like I'll texthim three things and that's all
I get.
I'll like say move your feet.
If a guy's even with you by thetime you get to the like you're
(38:54):
on the entry, guys even withyou by the hash mark, cut back.
Like you know what I mean.
I'll give him three pointersand then I'll leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I'm going to take a short break from the
conversation with Jamal to saythank you to everyone who has
emailed or reached out throughthe website, who is interested
in becoming either an ambassadoror an affiliate of the Up my
Hockey brand.
I announced it on the lastpodcast and many of you were
(39:26):
listening and that's fantastic.
So, if there is anybody, thisis something that is happening.
It is for real.
I am trying to grow the reach ofUp my Hockey in a geographic
sense, to have eitherambassadors on the ground, in
hockey hotbeds who either wantto promote the program
themselves, be a part of theaction, or have a background in
(39:48):
coaching, are immersed in thenetwork themselves and want to
grow their hockey acumen andbecome one of the Up my Hockey
mindset coaches working with meand under me through the Up my
Hockey programming that isavailable.
So two ways to be involvedeither as an ambassador or as an
affiliate slash associate, andthat's a pretty exciting time in
(40:08):
the growth of Up my Hockey.
So if you are one of thesecoaches, somebody who wants to
make the game a better place,someone who believes that
mindset is a very importantcomponent of the development arc
and want to give back to thegame, while hopefully helping
you in the compensation aspectof your growth and journey as a
coach and training, then Up myHockey may be a good avenue for
(40:31):
you to pursue.
So yeah, reach out to me atjason at upmyhockeycom or
through the contact form on mywebsite.
I look forward to theconversation and seeing if we're
a good fit.
Now let's get back to theconversation with.
Jamal Myers, good for you.
The one thing I really likedthere that you said, and one one
(40:54):
it is a challenge, I mean, andit's a dance and it's hard
enough.
Uh, you know, with a team fullof 17 where you're trying to
find all those entry pointsright and to be successful with
them, and then you have the dadhat on, including the coach hat
it is.
It is much more dynamic than Ithink.
Some people realize thathaven't been in that environment
.
But the idea of of like how canI coach you best?
(41:15):
I really encourage parents evento have that conversation with
their kids and you mean, yeah,we're talking 2012.
So what's that like?
Right now we're talking 12 yearolds.
Most 12 year olds are able tohave that conversation.
Maybe some aren't.
But like, don't discount whatyour kids are able to talk about
either.
And like asking them how do youwant to go over the game
afterwards, if at all.
Like getting them involved inthat.
(41:37):
You know how you want me toparticipate and and like that is
a really cool dynamic, becauseeven when it comes to
development, let's say, or likethe practice away from practice.
You know, some parents I getthat a lot is like he never
wants to do it.
I'm constantly nagging.
Well, as soon as you're nagging, it's over, it's done, like
right.
So it's like how do you want meto support you in this?
Like you've said, you want tobe a triple a player, or you
(41:59):
want to be this or you want tobe that.
Yet your actions aren't maybealigning with what you're
telling me.
Because they asked you to help,right.
Right, you know what I mean,and so that whole perspective is
massively different.
But that initial conversationhas to happen.
(42:19):
So you mean kind of along-winded answer to your point
, but like you asking him hey,like this is how I want to be
coached.
Essentially, I don't want to beyelled at.
That's a pretty, that's apretty mature conversation, you
know.
And then so you're coming athim in a mature way and, yes,
you're gonna have to turn thevolume up every now and again,
like when it needs to be, but atleast you understand how he
wants to be spoken to.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I think that's pretty , pretty productive yeah, I
think that you know, at the endof the day it's not worth our
relationship, right, and so Idon't want it to get to a point
where it's affecting that.
And so I think having thosecheck-ins, even away from the
game, just making sureeverything's okay, or, even
(42:59):
smarter than that, having momhave the check-in with him to
see where he's at, is alsohelpful information.
You know, I think that thatpart allows them to like own the
process and own that the paceof what's happening.
But I do have a point to makeabout what you were talking
(43:20):
about.
The off-ice skills and andworking on it was way different
for us, right.
Like we would just grab theirstick streetlights I live in the
city, so we'd go work on ourgame.
We'd be like play street hockeyand there was a lot more
organic.
The way I suggest it for parentsnow and I do skills and stuff
too is go out there and do it inthe driveway or wherever.
(43:43):
You're doing it in the basementor in the garage for 15 minutes
and then come back in and dosomething else.
And if you tell them to do itfor 30 or 45 minutes, it's not
happening in my experience, butwhen I tell them to do it for 10
, 15 minutes.
Go work on your pull, pull itin.
But our chop, pull it in andshoot it.
(44:03):
I'll come up pass with you, ifyou want, and then he'll go.
He'll go out and do it for 15minutes, or let's say they all,
they're kids, so they go a weekand you're like you know, I
haven't seen him outsideshooting pucks in a while.
And I'll just say to him hey, Ihaven't seen you outside
shooting pucks in a while.
I think you're you, you forgotto do that.
And he'll be like oh yeah, andthen it might not be that day,
(44:25):
but the next day you'll go outand do it again, but it's never
for more than 50 minutes.
Come in, do something else, geta popsicle, do something else,
play a video game, watch tv,whatever they do on tiktok, I
don't even know, uh, whateverthey're doing with their phones,
and.
But my point is I love gettingkids to do it 10, 15 minutes
twice a day on their own.
(44:46):
Then they they're more likelyto do it every day and, as you
know, it's the compoundingeverydayness of it where they
start to improve.
Versus 30 minutes twice a week,they're not going to improve.
It's, it's too long.
It feels like work for them.
They're by themselves Most ofthe time.
It's like there's no chancethey're going to sustain that.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, you're speaking .
That's awesome Cause you'respeaking.
I mean, that's awesome becauseyou're speaking.
You're speaking exactly mylanguage.
I developed a program that's anonline program that teams can
take or individuals.
It's kind of the backbone ofwhat my mindset stuff is about.
And week two is all about.
I call it 10x development, solike ways to get better.
Um, so it's short, short formvideos throughout the week,
monday to friday, and and Ibuild up like what I call the
(45:30):
peak potential process and andpart of it at the end is like
understanding the value of timeand also the understanding of
like the deliberate practicewhen we're talking about time
and that we can't deliberatelypractice something for extended
periods of time and we canactually make the most of
smaller time increments byinvolving our head and like
having a plan and really takingthis almost like a professional
(45:54):
approach to whatever this blockis.
And I call them 20-minutemonsters in the program, so a
little bit longer than you withthe 10 to 15, but 20 minutes.
I say a 20-minute monster.
Now what are you going to do inthat 20 minutes that you're
going to dedicate mind, body,soul to to get better right and
talk about it from a strengthand weakness perspective too.
Like that, we have this planand you're 100% right because
(46:16):
that is where the that's wherethe juice happens.
Like when you not in the garageor outside shooting pucks
aimlessly to get 100 pucks inbecause dad wants me to right,
throwing them at the net.
But like actually committing tosome aspect of that shot for 20
minutes with deliberateness isgoing to do way more for you
than just throwing a hundredpucks blindly at the net.
(46:36):
So I talked to them all aboutthat process, right, and and, uh
, and.
It's great because when peopleare armed with, now, new
information, they can make newdecisions, right, and they can
be responsible for thosedecisions and their development.
And it's not a big poll or uh,or, or, you know, I mean this,
this, this, this thing comingdown from above for mom or dad
to make them do it.
They actually get invested init because now they see the
(46:57):
excitement in it and it's not ahuge piece of time.
But I will say one thing to youthat I add into the program 20
minutes a day for a year isthree, eight hour work weeks.
Think about that.
That's what that is.
That is like it's crazy whenyou think about the compounding
of time if you want to play thelong game.
(47:17):
20 minutes a day for 365 daysadds up to three eight hour work
weeks.
It's bonkers to me.
You're telling me you don'tpractice.
You practice your shot for thatlong you're not going to have
an advantage over somebody else.
You know and we're talking inthat small little chunk that you
said who doesn't have 20minutes a day?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
exactly right exactly .
You know, I love the part aboutthe intentional part, every
aspect of that, but especiallythe intentionality of it.
Um, working on somethingspecific, I think that like it's
important to create aprogression and an understanding
, like the fundamental aspect ofit, the repetitiveness of it,
(47:56):
and I try, when we do things inthe summer, joe Vitale and I, we
talk about like we aren't goingto do new things for the sake
of newness.
So it looks new, oh, it's a newday, new.
No, no, no.
The warmup and the stickhandling and all these things
that we're doing, thefoundational elements, whether
it's a backhand or a toe drag orwhatever it is, it's going to
be the same every day.
(48:16):
Because it takes thatrepetitiveness, that
consistently doing it to getbetter.
And I tell the kids that ifthey want to get better, they're
going to have to sink into thatmonotony of that specific drill
, that specific skill, doing itover and over and, over and over
(48:37):
again.
That's why you see, like colby,doing a simple crossover, step
back shot, like the simplestthing that you would think,
because that's the foundationfor everything.
So it's it's so important thatthey know that 100 i%.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I mean that a big word for some people out there.
I know it's for me, but it'smyelination, Like, it's the art
of learning, like, which isanother thing that I actually
touch on.
Like the four stages oflearning and like getting those
brain connections wired so itbecomes awesome and automatic,
like there's not an awkwardnessin it.
We can do other things, we canalmost do it without thinking
right, because it's soprogrammed in and we've
(49:13):
dedicated the time to it that weend up in this spot where it is
automatic, right, and that'stotally foundation.
And talk about the nuances andthe layers you can get in that
right, like of whatever thatskill is and coaches, my gosh,
yeah, you're hitting a passionpoint for me of like, and half
the parents don't know anybetter.
Like every skill practice isthis new thing with new
(49:35):
apparatuses and you it's.
You're not getting any betterat all unless you have the
foundation that you're buildingfrom that.
It shouldn't be like a circusshow out there and just trying
to keep everything novel, um,and it doesn't mean it's better,
it's actually the.
I think that the guys well, Imean that's I'm biased because
it is my approach, but like, Ifeel like I'm 20 years behind
when I'm watching everyone elsedoing cause I'm doing.
(49:56):
I'm doing basic edge work, I'mdoing basic skills, uh, you know
, when it comes to stickhandling, adding progressions in
a movement and reads, but like,if you don't have those pieces
dialed, like, why are you goinganywhere else?
Um, so anyway, I don't know.
I kind of I don't have anattention on that, but it's so
true, I'm 100 on board.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's like anarms race right now with, like
(50:18):
you know, trying to the moregadgets you can have on the ice,
the better your practice is, orsomething it's I'm like can we
get rid of these gadgets?
Speaker 1 (50:26):
like I'm trying to get less things on the ice I'm
so happy we're at the age nowwhere we don't have to bring
cones on the ice.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, no doubt I had one more question, but we're on
time.
Should we cut it?
I wanted to ask you about theNCAA, since you were involved.
Yeah, is that okay?
Yeah, so I want to talk alittle bit more about your.
I mean, played university superyoung, came out of there,
actually got drafted fromuniversity.
You weren't in competition atthat point with any junior
(50:58):
players that wanted to also, uh,maybe have a have a bite of
that.
The announcement last week withthe ncaa now allowing chl
players, uh, to takescholarships, um, you know, in
some cases away from otherplayers, I think what do you
think that does to the landscapeof ncaa um in particular, and
maybe the Junior A route mightbe even more interesting in
general to that.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Yeah, honestly, I think it's going to squeeze in
two areas in my opinion.
I think what happens is you'regoing to see the majority of
players still come from the USHLand the North American League
is going to get squeezed, and Ithink that the BC League is
going to get squeezed, becausewhat's going to happen, in my
(51:36):
opinion, is, if I'm, let's say,I went to Western Michigan,
they're building a new rink in2028, and we can now take junior
players.
I am hiring a dedicated scoutfor the OHL and the Western
League and even perhaps even theQuebec League to go scour
undrafted players that areplaying junior currently, that
(52:01):
are wondering what the heckthey're going to do, but are
really good players, and I wantto take them at 19 and offer
them a full.
Basically, what you're offeringthem, in my opinion, is forget
the scholarship, because they'renot there for the scholarship.
They're.
They're not even there for theeducation.
You know what they're there for.
They're there to extend theirhockey lives, and that, to me,
(52:24):
would be the catch.
That I would say is, I can buyyou five more, four more years
of development to realize yourdream.
And oh, by the way, yourparents are going to love this
part you're actually going tohave a degree when you're done
and if you are done, you have adegree.
So that would be my strategy.
But I think you're right.
Where does it get constricted?
(52:45):
Well, I think they're going tostart taking players from junior
.
Just makes sense.
The ushl will be fine becausethere's still a ton of really,
really good players there and alot of americans are not going
to want to go to canada playjunior, so they're going to just
go to the ushl and then go toschool.
And then that's where I thinkit hurts the north american
league and that's where I thinkit hurts the bc league.
(53:08):
Because you've seen it right,like the reason why I was
fortunate, I went to college at18 or 17, but my as a true
freshman.
Well, because quinnipiac won anational championship.
Now these other schools realizehey, wait a second, I could
take a 20 year old freshman.
So the trend now is there'svery rare to take a freshman
that's 18.
If they'd be a very, there'smaybe a handful of them now.
(53:30):
Um, I just fear that it's goingto squeeze out kids in the
North American League.
It's going to squeeze out kids.
It's going to buy kids andjunior an extra life.
But what it would also do isyou have a 2012.
The idea of playing junior tome is now a possibility, because
(53:52):
I can convince my wife hey, ifhe's good enough to play junior
at 16, 17, 18, he could still goto school after that if he ends
up not being good enough.
Yeah, and, and and.
So that's what I think ends uphappening.
There's a lot smarter peoplethat know the interdynamics of
(54:13):
what's gonna happen, but mythinking is, if you take four
kids off of each junior team Imean major junior team that go
play college, well, they'retaking someone's spot from
somewhere, right yeah, yeah, Imean, it's just.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I mean, I think it's just the black and white of it,
right?
I mean a 19 year old playingthe BCJ, trying to get a
scholarship, is usually therebecause he wasn't good enough in
the beginning, right, to get tothe WHL or the OHL.
Not saying that they can'timprove or go, but I'm just
saying across the board, right,so now you're giving a
scholarship to somebody in theBC junior league at 19 because
(54:51):
you don't have access to the 19year old in the WHL.
Yeah, is this?
Is this not a?
That player in the WHL, I wouldsay seven times out of 10 is
probably better, maybe even morethan that.
You know, I'm trying to begracious, right?
So, like there is going to be,I think, more scholarships taken
away from those leagues you'retalking about.
I would suspect I just makesense to me uh, which also then,
(55:15):
I think, makes collegepotentially get a little bit
older.
I think it maybe makes all theleagues a bit older.
Like I think that maybe the whlgets older because now they
have the ability to to go to thebcj, where they couldn't before
, and now they can have a 19year old.
There's a hell of a good hockeyplayer and probably better than
17 year old they would have, orthe 18 year old they would have
, right.
So why not make campcompetitive and see what that
league's like?
So so now they have access tomore players too.
(55:36):
I think maybe the bcj gets alittle bit younger.
It's more of a developmentleague for the whl.
Um, yeah, it's going to beinteresting, though it really is
going to be interesting.
Who knows what?
What it's gonna, what it'sgonna be.
But I I just love the fact thatfor someone like me, looking
looking back at like I wouldhave loved to have had at least
the option right, not saying Iwould have I signed early and
played pro early, but it wouldstill have been great not to
(55:58):
have to make this ultimatedecision at 15 years old about
which path I was taking.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Didn't ever make sense, right?
Every pro player that I playedwith that played junior.
Whenever they've been to acollege game or they see college
, they're like, why didn't I dothis?
This would have beenunbelievable.
Play on the weekends and be astudent and like this would be
unbelievable.
So you know, I grew up inToronto so I wanted to play in
(56:26):
the OHL because you see theglobal game of the week, the
Longine Wittenauer player of thegame on Saturdays on global.
You're like, oh, that looks socool, I want to do that.
Um, I wasn't good enough and soI had to go to college.
I wasn't, you know, I gotdrafted but I said I was going
to school.
Um, you know, I think it'll beinteresting.
I just, you're right, I thinkit becomes.
(56:48):
It becomes an older league, ormaybe it goes the other way.
Let's say you're, you're a,you're london, and you say I'm
philosophically only going tohave a team of 16 and 17 year
olds and maybe I create such agreat example or like system for
them that they want to stay.
And so then you know that'swhat you're building up, because
(57:10):
it's hard to develop if youjust grab kids when they're 18,
19.
Like, it makes it harder.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
I think the draft is still going to be super relevant
.
But I think, like it's justlike those top guys will get fed
in but I think there'll be lessroom for some of the other ones
.
You know what I mean.
Like there's going to beanother place to go right.
Like I think there's alwaysgoing to be a desire to develop
your top product, just like inthe NHL, right.
I mean like the top guys willbe there, right, and then the
(57:36):
other guys go to the AHL andthey scrap it out.
But it's definitely interesting.
I mean there's already beenannouncements right from the WHO
I know I'm more tied here tothe West of like guys going to
college next year and moving on.
And yeah, it's going to be.
I'm interested to see whathappens to the AJHL BCHL.
(57:57):
You know what that looks likeas far as who they bring in and
what camp looks like next yearfrom the WHL level.
Like are there any BCHL guyscoming?
It's going to be interesting.
A lot of the guys from Ontario.
Here's a guy from West KelownaPridham, I think, is his last
name.
He's a chicago blackhawks draftthird rounder.
He was here in west colona, um.
He left like days after theannouncement.
(58:18):
He's going playing forkitchener in the ohl now like
and that's he's not the only onevernon viper's here they lost
two guys to the whl boom really,yeah, they left.
So like the bcj is alreadylosing players, um, you know, in
some capacity because thesedifferent routes have been open.
So I think we're just startingto see the dominoes fall about
what's going to happen thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
I I never even thought about it happening that
way, but that's that makes a tonof sense, because they would
have went to junior, but they'relike no, I want to keep my
eligibility now, they're like no, I can go yeah, it makes the
chl better.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
I think, like the top , the top guys, right, and
there's not that many top guyslike that actually stay, you
know, like, like, who would bethe the most recent one there?
Oh, like the, the Nadeaubrothers, right.
So a first rounder to the NHLdraft from the BCJ.
I mean, it happens every oncein a while, but not very often.
Usually those best guys arealready playing junior somewhere
else, like you know, majorjunior, but those guys don't
(59:10):
have to stay there, right?
So those top guys will go toCHL most likely.
Why wouldn't you?
It's a better league, right.
Better towns, better venues,better, everything, right
Exposure.
So I think, yeah, like thatwhole thing is going to be
interesting.
I don't know Whatever.
I have a bunch of parents askme, so I wanted your opinion
from what it looks like for youguys out there.
(59:32):
And I do agree with that ushlscenario, because there's no
reason why that would change atall.
All the us players would stillgo there.
You mean, like I shouldn't sayall some.
Maybe you want to play a longerseason, potentially, and maybe
they'll, they'll hop the borderbecause they can, but I think
for the most part of that leaguewill be intact and nothing much
will change with it.
It's going to be the subsidiaryleagues that that maybe see an
input, but anyways, we're overtime.
(59:52):
Uh, loved chatting with you,boy.
We barely even got into yourstuff, but that's the way hockey
goes, especially when there'sso many aspects to cover.
But I really appreciate youcoming on today, jamal and um,
and sharing your, your story andand your coaching story here.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Uh, today, yeah, so happy for you and excited for
all the stuff you're doing, andbest of luck with everything.
Thanks man, see you doing well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Thank you for being a listener of the up my hockey
podcast and for listening tothat entire conversation with
Jamal Myers.
I know I enjoyed it.
It is a little shorter thanwhat you're used to here If
you're a long time listener.
They got my hockey podcast 40minutes but that was what
Jamal's schedule could allow andI sure enjoyed the time.
We did have to shoot the breezeabout youth hockey During that
(01:00:41):
conversation.
You probably remember a partwhere we were talking about
deliberate practice.
Obviously, conversations arecompletely unscripted and Jamal
brought up the idea of 10 to 15minutes a day for younger
players to go out maybe twice aday to work on their game and to
really compound their skilldevelopment, and I was able to
talk a little bit about the PeakPotential Program and how
(01:01:02):
that's a main piece of week two.
So I just wanted to double backon that and just talk to you
parents and players out therethat maybe feel that they aren't
investing as much as they canoutside of their practice time.
That is a common concern that Ihave through the mindset quiz
that is offered on my website,that players regardless of age,
(01:01:25):
like junior players all the waydown to U13 players, feel a type
of guilt sometimes that theyaren't doing enough away from
the rink, that they feel thatthere is more that they could do
.
They're not motivated enough.
Maybe they don't have theintention of what to do or the
consistency and accountabilityto do it.
Which is why because it's sucha common theme even across
(01:01:49):
high-level players that Icreated week two of the peak
potential process.
It talks about the four stagesof learning.
It talks about the processrequired to get better.
It breaks down the stages of.
It, gives you a strength andweakness builder and talks about
deliberate practice.
In the 20 minute monster whichI referred to, week two of the
peak potential process isessentially worth the entire
(01:02:13):
price of the program because theplayers that do use the
information involved in there islike we're talking about
maximizing development for along time.
The longer the runway, thelonger you understand how
development works, the longeryou can apply deliberate
practice to your own growth.
The gains are absolutelyexponential.
(01:02:37):
And parents that's one of thebiggest responses from parents
is seeing the new dedication andaccountability that the players
have and they don't have to beinvolved in the idea of hey, did
you do this?
Hey, shouldn't you do that, whyhaven't you done this?
Players take accountability.
They have their two-weekplanner set up on an ongoing
(01:02:58):
basis.
They know what they're going todo, they know when they're
going to do it and they'reexcited to do it because they've
been taught the reasons of howit's going to help them and they
see the results that they'regetting and that they are
getting better, that they'regetting that they are getting
better.
So if that speaks to you, youmight be somebody that wants to
get your player involved in thePeak Potential program.
It's an ongoing rotation.
As far as the guided mission isconcerned, that's when the
(01:03:19):
players get to work with me oncoaching calls at the end of
each week.
So you can check my website forwhen the next one is being
offered Right now.
If you are listening to thislive, the next one is going to
be launched November 25th.
We are going to startofficially with lessons that day
, on the Monday.
So it might be good timing foryou, right before Christmas, to
(01:03:42):
get some new insight, new tools,new perspectives into the
brains of your players so theycan utilize them for the second
half of the season.
If that timing works out, greatfor you.
Check out the mindset quiz atupmyhockeycom.
That's all I got for you today.
Hope you enjoyed.
Jamal.
Jamal, thank you for being on.
Really appreciate you and whatyou're doing, and until next
(01:04:02):
time, this is Jason Padone.
Play hard and keep your head up.
Joe Vitale and I, we talk about like we aren't going
to do new things for the sake ofnewness.
So it looks new, oh, it's a newday, new, no, no, no.
The warm-up and the stickhandling and all these things
that we're doing, thefoundational elements, whether
it's a backhand or a toe drag orwhatever it is, it's going to
be the same every day because ittakes that repetitiveness, that
(00:22):
consistently doing it, to getbetter.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
That was 915 game.
Nhl veteran and Stanley Cupchampion, jamal Myers, and you
(00:57):
are listening to the Up myHockey podcast with Jason
Padolan.
Oh oh, oh oh.
Won NHL games but thought hewas destined for a thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hello there and welcome back tothe Up my Hockey podcast with
Jason Padolan.
I am your host, jason Padolan,and we are here for episode 143
(01:20):
in the series and Jamal Myers isjoining us today.
Jamal Myers is somebody that isactually I'm looking at his bio
here now.
He's actually two years olderthan me, so he was born in 74,
but we did cross paths in theminors and in the NHL.
I get right into it here in theinterview.
(01:41):
We actually fought in the NHL.
It was the last game of theseason in 1999, I believe St
Louis versus Los Angeles, and Istarted with that.
It wasn't a plan, it just sortof came to mind and Jamal
remembered it, so we revisitthat.
But we definitely did playagainst each other when he was
(02:01):
with Worcester as well and I waswith the St John Maple Leafs.
So a little bit of a historythere, and Jamal was nice enough
to come on the program todayand discuss some of his time in
the NHL, his journey into it,but mostly we talk about
actually youth hockey.
Surprisingly enough, I don'tever have a game plan laid out
(02:25):
for how the interview is goingto go, but Jamal has a son, a
2012-born son, that he is headcoaching right now.
It's a good team.
I guess he said it's the15th-ranked team in the US.
He's got a couple assistantcoaches with him that are also
ex-NHLers with sons on the teamand they're having a ton of fun
doing it.
So that's what the car theconversation shifted to quite
(02:46):
quickly.
And then we also conclude withuh the new development of the
ncaa accepting canadian hockeyleague players.
Uh into the scheme, into thefold.
They're now able to acceptscholarships after playing major
junior hockey.
So we discussed the potentialimpact that may have and, all in
all, it was a good conversation.
It was a short conversation,you know, considering where my
(03:12):
podcasts usually end or startand end, and it was about a
40-minute conversation todaybecause Joval had other
arrangements, so we kept itshort and sweet.
We definitely could have talkedlonger, that is for sure, but
today is a little bit of anabbreviated interview from what
you're used to if you're along-time listener.
So yeah, well, let's get rightinto it.
(03:33):
It was awesome talking withJamal.
I mean, for those of you whodon't know Jamal, I guess I
should give you his hockey DB alittle bit.
He came out of Thornhill, he'sfrom Toronto, originally came
out of Thornhill, the Met JHL,and he says in the interview
that he always wanted to playOHL but he wasn't good enough at
the time when he had to makethe decision.
(03:55):
But he was able to get ascholarship to Western Michigan
University where he played fouryears and got drafted there his
first year playing at WesternMichigan.
He went on to play with theWorcesters, split time with the
Blues until he became afull-time St Louis Blue in
99-2000.
And then from there,essentially the rest was history
(04:16):
.
He played for the Blues forlooks like seven or eight
seasons, ended or had a stop inToronto with the Maple Leafs,
which we never talked about atall, but playing for his
hometown I'm sure was specialWent from there to Calgary, to
the San Jose Sharks and endedwith Chicago where he was able
to hoist a cup in 2013, Ibelieve.
So, yeah, a lot of his careerwe actually didn't touch on.
(04:38):
But at the end of the day,jamal played 915 games in the
NHL, scored 90 goals, 219 pointsand 1200 penalty minutes, and
also 63 playoff games.
So a super, super successfulcareer.
He also represented Canada atthe World Championships in 2000.
So lots, lots for him to beproud of with his career.
(04:58):
Now he's trying to pass that onto the next generation there in
the St Louis area.
So without further ado, I bringyou Jamal Mayers.
All right, here we are forepisode 143 with an old
adversary of mine, longtimeNHLer, mr Jamal Mayers.
Thanks for being on the program, sir.
Great to be here.
(05:19):
Good to see you again.
I love the beard.
Yeah well, hey, what do you do,hey, I?
started growing it out and I'mlike what the hell?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
happened to my dark beard?
I hear you.
I shaved mine so you can't seethe gray.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, I know, actually, my hair itself isn't
nearly as bad as my beard.
I don't let the hair grow veryoften, but yeah, this is very
different than 10 years ago.
Facebook will flash up memoriesor whatever.
I'm like that was 10 years ago.
It looked really dark and blackand, uh, I guess three kids and
you know all the things thathappen.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
it's, uh, it happens, but that's right, just gotta
own it man just gotta own itabsolutely um, yeah, awesome to
have you on.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I was actually uh, chuckling because I was looking
at your, at your DB and whichdidn't exist right Like back
when we played, which is socrazy, cause we had no idea
where guys were coming from,where they played, you know like
what their, what their resumewas like, and uh, and I had to
chuckle because when we, whenyou got your instigator for
(06:24):
jumping me in LA, do youremember that?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Cause some guys don't remember.
I'm kind of a bad memory butthat stuff too.
But I didn't have many fightsand you had more than I did.
So I didn't know if you'dremember, but I was looking at
that and we were both kind of inthe same, in the same point of
our careers, of like trying tobe NHLers at that point, like
you weren't necessarily cemented.
Um, of like trying to be NHLersat that point, like you weren't
necessarily cemented, um, Idon't know if that's a good
place to start or not, but Ibrought it up.
I was, I was thinking aboutthat game and I'll give you my
(06:51):
backstory.
Um, just so you know where Iwas at.
So I had just got traded, uh,from Toronto to LA.
Uh, parole went back the otherway.
They started me off in longbeach.
Uh, had some time in the NHL upto then, like with Toronto and
with Florida and this was goingto be my third team and they'd
called me up so for the last sixgames of the season and LA was
(07:12):
out of the playoffs.
You guys weren't by the soundsof it, but it was like a mean
nothing game, like you guyscouldn't move at all in the
standings and we were done andit was one of those flat,
nothing happening games,essentially right at the end of
the year, and I shouldn't havebeen actually handling it that
way, apparently like I didn'tthink that I was, but apparently
(07:33):
, like according to LarryRobinson, he was not happy.
He like was up one side of meand down the other because I
wasn't trying hard enough,apparently in that last game, 82
of the season.
So of course, at the start ofthe third period I'm like well,
okay, f, this let's go Right.
So I start hitting.
Nobody's hitting in the game atall, right, so I'm in the
corner, I hit you, do whateveryou turn around, and I grabbed
me from behind and we get inthis fight.
(07:53):
What is your recollection?
Were you kind of in the samemode as me, like were you trying
to make a statement yourself orwere you just pissed off that I
hit you, or do you rememberanything about that at all?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
honestly, I don't remember why it happened, but I
can assume that I wasn't happywith no one hitting the entire
game, that you decided thatthat's when you're gonna start
to hit, so I probably was likethis is not happening, we're
gonna fight, right which isexactly what I knew would happen
.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
That was the funniest thing.
It's like you want me to be theonly one out here, like running
around, and I guess I shouldhave had that mindset.
I mean really doing what I donow, like I should have been
worried about me making theright impression and like not
looking like I was a tenuredveteran when I wasn't, but I was
also like, uh, I think, prettyakin to the social aspect of
that.
You know, like, and maybe Icouldn't like, step like step, I
(08:42):
wasn't comfortable enoughstepping out of that void.
Um, and then Larry Robinsonobviously pushed me out of that
void and it turns out you knowthat we, we both get five
minutes and I'm in the box, butuh, kind of an interesting spot.
Hey, like, maybe that is a goodspot, like making yourself
relevant in the NHL or atwhatever level, like the steps
required to do that.
What was your mindset like whenyou were stepping in, trying to
(09:04):
make a name for yourself?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That's a great point.
I think for me it was alwaysabout um affecting the game
somehow and you know, especiallyearly on I want.
That for me was being physical,using my speed and getting in
on the four check and being adisruptor.
I played college hockey, so Ididn't fight, we didn't.
I never fought in junior.
(09:27):
I didn't play junior, I didn't.
So my first fights were in theminors, my first fights were in
the NHL.
And so the good thing is I wasstrong enough to like protect
myself and usually through thefirst few years I could like
protect myself enough that if Iwanted to punch, I could punch,
and if I didn't feel comfortablebecause the guy was definitely
(09:49):
a better fighter than me, Icould at least survive enough to
make it look good.
Um, but I think mindset wisefor me was always a survival
mindset, like how do I stay here?
Especially because I've spenttwo years in the minors in
Worcester and I like people ofWorcester have been nice, we're
(10:11):
nice, but people would ask mefrom home like how are things?
And I would say they've neverbeen Worcester, like I do not
want to live here, like thiscan't be, I might as well go
back to go to grad school neverbeen Worcester, that's awesome
so that's what I would say,because I I had told myself, if
I don't make the NHL after thisthree-year entry-level deal,
(10:33):
that I'm going back to school.
It just it just wasn't for me to.
I don't know how to explain it.
I just I wanted to play in theNHL and if it wasn't the NHL,
then I wasn't, I didn't want todo it and it wasn't.
So I had this like fear, evenwhen I made it, that like it was
going to be taken away.
And I remember every trainingcamp, literally every year,
(10:57):
until my last year pro, I stillhad that feeling where you know
how it is, every training campthey say, oh, these two young
kids, they're really good,they're gonna, they're gonna vie
for a spot and I'm thinkingthey're not taking my spot.
No, not this year, it's nextyear, they can do it next year
or somewhere else, not gonna behere.
So and I remember like talkingto like ryan johnson, who's now
(11:19):
assistant gm in uh for vancouver, and we would laugh because
there's all these guys, like youknow how it is the first week
before training camp.
There's no hitting, there'sjust guys out there flying and
they're all like, oh, did yousee that guy from Switzerland?
He's unbelievable.
I'm like I can't wait to runhim over, like, like he's, he's
(11:41):
not going to be that good oncewe hit him.
And it was a different time then, so it was a different.
There was this the fear factorwas a lot more prevalent,
certainly, than it is now, andso that, to me, was a skill that
you honed in on that you couldlike use.
Not that you weren't nice topeople on the ice or like off
(12:01):
the ice, but like you wanted tokeep that uncertainty for me was
keep people uncertain attraining camp, uncertain within
games.
I didn't really talk to guysduring games, in games, and even
when I knew someone, kind of Ididn't want to talk to them and
(12:21):
they would be like what the heckman, we worked out together all
summer and you're not evengoing to say hi to me, like I.
I liked the fact that they werewondering like what a jerk?
Like why would?
And then after the game I texthim hey, sorry, I just don't
talk during the games, like I'lltalk to you after and so.
But that was an edge, right,cause then maybe they spent
three shifts wondering likewhat's wrong with this guy?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
yeah, that's a competitive advantage and I
think I've talked about it onhere before.
How do you feel, like becauseyou said it has changed like
those that can bring that, uh,that aspect to the game?
Now it has to mean even more, Iwould think it does.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And I remember talking I was leaving the game
my last year was 2013 and and Iremember talking to keith kachuk
aboutuk, about Matthew cominginto the league, and I remember
telling him I said I said, walt,I know you retired Like maybe
it was four years ago.
I go there.
There is nobody tough anymoreplaying Like.
There's maybe, yes, there's sixguys in the league that are
(13:21):
super tough.
That could certainly beat me up, but there's there.
There's not how it used to bewhen you and I were playing,
where every lineup had three orfour guys willing to.
Like.
Now I think you look at thelineup and they maybe, they
maybe have one or they don'thave anybody that's willing to.
And I said, if, if matthew'sjust even willing to and willing
(13:41):
to to me is fight three times ayear if you're willing to, you
are going to create spacebecause 98 of the players do not
want anything to do with it.
Yeah, and so I agree with you.
It has become even more of alike a, an advantage, if you
will to use that element to likecreate space for yourself and
(14:05):
for your teammates and your linemates and like the new tough
player is a different player.
Like it's, yeah, it's, it'sMatthew, it's, it's even um,
what's his name?
Number nine on there's on thesame team for Florida, um, who
doesn't fight very often either,but like, like, that's what
toughness is now.
And so if you can just build ina little, forget toughness,
(14:29):
because I think sometimes itgets misconstrued because I know
the game has changed.
But if you can change thewording and say, like, if you
have a little bit ofunpredictability within your
game, an uncertainty and Ialways marveled at a guy like
Chris Fong was my roommate forfour or five years, nice guy in
the room, just an absoluteterror in front of the net, not
(14:50):
a nice person.
He would viciously use his stickagainst someone at least twice
a year.
And I remember talking to himsaying what are you doing there?
Why would you do that?
He goes oh, I'm going to dothat every year, twice a year,
(15:11):
so that guys that I'm playingagainst when I say I might carve
your eye out or cross-check youin the face.
Well, he has done it twice ayear, every year, and he's like
it's worth it for me to take asuspension, even if I have to
take a suspension to keep peopleaway from me.
I'm not a big guy, I'm justkind of slight and I was like
that's brilliant, it's geniusand it's a different game today.
But I think that I believe thatthe rules regress in the
(15:35):
playoffs.
Five years the game is stillwhat it was five years ago in
the playoffs.
So the element of physicality,the element of intimidation, the
fact that you're playing a teamover the course of the best of
seven, it becomes it.
How do I get even the tiniestof edge?
And and that physical, mentaledge sometimes is the difference
(15:59):
yeah, yeah, I know I love you.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Everything you say in there is is, is so on point
like that element of predictiveunpredictability, um, of actual
like safety, you know, likeyou're, you know, there there's
we talk about fear, andespecially what I do now with
like the mindset of that, youknow, and how to handle it in
different capacities and andit's not the same as it once was
(16:23):
, but there is still fearinvolved in the game from, uh,
you know, am I going to get hit?
Where am I vulnerable?
If I go to the front of the net, what happens, you know?
I mean, if I say this, whathappens?
And and some of that has beentaken away with the rules and
the way the game is, but therestill is an element of it.
When you were taught like backand again back back, when we
played, there was like there wasthe constant threat of pain and
(16:44):
like hurt, you know, and andthere was a lot of guys in the
team that would do that, andthat is one of the things for me
personally, being a goal scorerin that era, that I'm really
proud of is that, yeah, I woulddrop my gloves time and again
too, but that wasn't really partof who I was, it was part of
the era.
But the ability to get to theplaces to score goals and
knowing that you were going toget hurt in the process of doing
it, like that's a mind screw.
(17:05):
You know to have to go and dothat and um, and for me that's
where I don't like that the gameis regressed because it's too
easy to score.
I think now you know there'sless, there's less bravery
involved in it.
You know there's less courageinvolved and it's just like a
high skill, yes, and there'stons of respect for the, for the
skill level and how to do that.
In this context, the mindsetside of it, I think isn't quite
(17:28):
what it was and I don't know.
Like, that's just me and kindof my viewpoint, but, um, I do
love watching playoff hockey nowbecause I think that comes back
.
I do think it comes back.
You have to pay more of a pricein different areas to to get
the job done and and that's whysome guys are successful there
and some guys aren't.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Now, it's, it's in it .
I don't think that's ever goingto change.
And those players that there'sgoing to be some of them, some
of them happen to be on theLeafs, if you're a Leafs friend.
But either they're going tofigure that out and be willing
to do it or they're going tospend their entire career not
having success in the playoffs.
And that's the truth, becauseeven though you could have
(18:07):
referees on here and say no, no,no, we referee the same way in
the playoffs.
No, you don't, no, you don't,you don't, the intensity
ratchets up and you can't, orelse the game wouldn't have a
flow to it.
So you have to let some of itgo and I like the game where it
(18:28):
it is.
I think it becomes even theferocity of it.
I think I I like more in theplayoffs.
It becomes more exciting.
It's, it's uh, it's funny.
You talk about that nervousnessand that that factor.
It was certainly there and notto keep this digressing about
when we play, but there was aprice to pay.
Just getting to the front ofthe net was either a slash, a
(18:49):
slight accidentally on purposepunch to the face, a cross check
on the ribs or, like on yourarm, where they know you're not,
we're vulnerable.
It was something on the way tothe net you were getting, so you
knew that if I'm going to thenet, mcsorley's gonna punch me
in the face for no reason.
The ref's just gonna say, well,you decided to go there.
(19:10):
Like that's what they would sayyeah, yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
No, you know the connection to how the game is
now, and I do think I mean youknow we're joking about being
dinosaurs and talking about backwhen we played, but I think
that the relevance ofunderstanding the game then does
help today's player, at leastfor me from a coaching aspect,
because when I'm talking withsome junior kid who has a high
skill player, who is more of aperimeter guy, and I'm saying,
hey, when you're driving the net, if you get to the far post
(19:36):
every time you're going to scoremany more goals and it's a
brave place to go and there'sless consequences for you doing
it now.
So, like you know, like we, wehave.
We have the experiential factorof being like, yeah, that was
hard and like I was able to do,and I would take X, y and Z in
order to make that happen.
Now, if you can get these guysto understand the value of
getting there, it's just it's.
(19:58):
It's a value to them.
You know what I mean.
And it's not as a heart of aplace to go anymore.
But there still is anuncomfortability about it
because their experience withthe game is just their
experience with the game, right,like they haven't experienced,
like how it was before.
So, anyways, there's still waysto score goals and still areas
to score goals, right, that willnever change.
It's just who's willing to gothere and I think if we can get
(20:21):
some guys to do that, it's kindof fun.
I know I'm working with my12-year-old on that right now.
He likes to get wide, but thenhe constantly will try and go
short side and usually ends upbehind the net.
I'm like put the leg out, getto the far post and you have way
more options, right, absolutely.
Anyways, what a wild ride tosee the game now from our
vantage point of being a playerand now the next generation
(20:43):
coming under us and helping themand using our experiences,
hopefully in a positive way forthese young guys coming up.
Just going to take a short breakfrom the conversation with
Jamal Mayers to give a shout outto my partners at Elite
Prospects, the gateway to hockeyOnline.
(21:05):
Since 1999, eliteprospectscomis the number one statistical
hockey resource, serving over amillion unique visitors weekly.
It offers the most informativehockey player database on the
web and has the most reliabletransaction tracker available
For youth hockey players.
Ep is your very own onlineshowcase to highlight your
(21:26):
achievements and help securefuture playing opportunities
Coaches, scouts and schools atevery level of the game.
Consider Elite Prospects theirone-stop shop to discover future
stars, hockey fan, crazy aboutthe NHL, the draft and your
team's top prospects?
There's no better resource thanEP Rinkside, providing insight
and analysis on playersworldwide through written
(21:48):
features, video breakdowns,interviews and more.
Head to EliteProspectscom nowand experience your gateway to
hockey.
The Elite Prospects is a partnerwith the UMH 68 as well.
That's how we came into thispartnership and the UMH 68 is
rocking and rolling for 2025.
(22:10):
So if you are in Western Canadaand you have an athlete either
2011 or 2012 age Western Canadameaning Manitoba 11 or 2012 age
Western Canada meaning Manitoba,saskatchewan, alberta or
British Columbia check outupmyhockeycom to see what is
coming to your province.
We will be in Brandon, we willbe in Martinsville, we will be
(22:33):
in Edmonton and we will be backagain in Vernon for another year
with different age groups.
This is a best on bestcompetition.
It is a tournament unlike anyother.
There's a very large developmentfocus, with workshops for
players and parents throughoutplayer banquet.
There's all-star awards and MVPgame awards and there is color
(22:55):
commentators and NHL coaches andall kinds of good stuff to be
had at the UMH 68 and somethingyou want to be a part of.
So check out upmyhockeycom.
You can put in what I call aplayer watch list request.
We do have scouts in everyprovince looking at the age
(23:15):
group in question.
We also use a network, meaningcoaches and managers can refer
players and parents can requestthat their players get watched
and we can take a look atwhether you are worthy of an
invitation or not to the UMH 68.
So check it out.
Umh 68, western Canada in 2025,in June, coming to a city near
(23:37):
you.
Are you one of the top 68?
Let us know your name atupmyhockeycom.
Jamal, tell us about who youhave in the stable here
following in your footsteps.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, my girls are both soccer players.
I have a freshman at KansasState playing soccer.
She's a midfielder.
She started the nine games as afreshman, which is kind of cool
.
My younger daughter is a juniorin high school.
She just committed to go to thesame school, so she's going to
kansas state in a couple years,in 2026.
So it'll be nice.
They'll be together for acouple years anyway.
(24:14):
Um, and then my son is theyoungest.
He's at 2012, just turned 12last Saturday, and so happy
birthday.
That's it.
Yeah, coaching him for the lastfew years has been a ton of fun
, similarly to you.
Like this it's nice to have.
For us, we started AAA lastyear, so last year was became
(24:37):
really enjoyable, because nowyou're having like-minded kids
all together, right, and thatchanges the dynamic of what
you're able to do and how you'reable to motivate, what you're
able to show them and get themto understand the game.
And now we're at a point wherewe're where we're, our our
philosophy with our group is toreward the intention.
(24:59):
We want them making plays, wewant them trying to make do
things, we want them, you know,having fun being on the
offensive side of things.
But we, we have an expectationand a standard that that they've
set, and we we set the standardfor them at the beginning of
the year, and then we'rebasically just stewards and
(25:19):
reminding them of the standardfor them at the beginning of the
year, and then we're basicallyjust stewards and reminding them
of the standard that theycreated.
And so what I try to do, we tryto do and I'm lucky I've got
Matt Lashoff and Joe Vitale, whoboth played in the NHL and
their sons are on the team aswell is that we all have
different strengths as coachesand perhaps more I'm more the
disciplinarian one sometimes,but I think that we play each
(25:42):
other's roles nicely is that Itry to keep them accountable to
the standard that they createdfor themselves, and so that
creates that compete level andthat creates the non-negotiables
that we've created.
Whether it's tracking orwhether it's making sure we
tracking or whether it's, youknow, making sure we have a
third guy high, like these arenon-negotiable elements that
(26:05):
have been embedded into our game.
We play a swarm I probablyshouldn't tell you that so that
if we play you guys, you canfigure it out and use it against
us.
But we're doing things andwe're starting to add in layers
of our game where we're creatingmovement and overlapping and
things like that in theoffensive zone and and really
trying to like follow the trendof where we see the game going,
(26:27):
not only where it is now, butwhere we see it going, so that
they have that skill set now.
Because of that, we may nottechnically I think we're 15th
in the country we may lose somegames because we're we're going
to turn pucks over, becausewe're overlapping when they
shouldn't have.
You've got to live with some ofthose mistakes, but I would
prefer that they learn how toplay with the puck and value the
(26:48):
puck and possess the puck.
My feeling is that 15, 16, likewe can teach them.
Like they still have tounderstand the time score
situation and where to put thepuck and what, and the value
Sometimes you just got to get itin, but at the end of shifts.
But we also want the makingplays, so you're going to we
live with some mistakes that weprobably won't have to live with
(27:11):
when they're 15, but I thinkit's important and I think that
the challenge I'm sure you feelas well is halfway through the
year.
We all do this as coaches.
We're like oh my goodness, whatis wrong with him?
There's usually two or threekids who are just like oh Well,
you know what?
I always remind myself Well, wepicked him, we picked him, we
(27:32):
got to coach him, we got to gethim there.
Somehow we got to get him there.
And we can't just say it's nothappening, we've got to push
them aside.
No, no, no.
We've got to find a way, we'vegot to figure out a way between
us coaches to find a way to getthe best out of them, make them
understand what we're trying toaccomplish, try to get them to a
confidence place, which is sodifficult, right?
Because some of the times theyinternalize it as well.
(27:55):
You're just getting mad at me.
Well, some of it's effort, Mostof it to me, is effort.
It's not the execution part.
The execution part is going tocome and go, but I don't know
about you, but for me it's theeffort in situations that we
have to keep them accountabletoward.
And so that's that's thechallenge making sure they know
we care, right, making sure theyknow we care, but also being
(28:19):
stern to know that perhaps theyget a little easy at home
nowadays, like so I tell ourkids all the time.
I said I'm not gonna lie to you.
I said your grandma's pickingyou up, you know she's gonna say
great game, great game, jimmy,you did awesome.
And I said I had this funnyspeech right.
I said he's he's lying to you.
She's lying if grandma tells toyou, she's lying.
(28:40):
If grandma tells you a greatgame, she's lying.
That was not a great game.
And so one of the kids wenthome and the mom didn't go to
the game.
And the mom said well, I heardyou had a really good game.
Grandma said you had a greatsee, coach, said.
You would say I played a greatgame, we were terrible.
You're lying to me.
The parents actually told methat story, so I started
(29:02):
laughing.
I'm like yeah, I did tell himthat.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I did tell him you'd say that, yeah, coach dynamics,
right, the, the honesty.
I think that that is I mean,not that I want to dwell on that
, but but one of the things thatI think my players like to hear
from me and that's whether I'mcoaching a compete team or
whether I'm working withsomebody on mindset is like the
truth, at least my version ofthe truth.
Right, and I think that so fewpeople hear the truth right.
(29:26):
Even like that exercise ofhearing the truth and then
recognizing what you can do withthat information one way or the
other is like a skill set, inmy opinion.
Right, because how many timeshave you walked into a coach's
office and asked for somethingor demanded something or asked a
question and maybe you heard aresponse that you didn't want to
hear at the pro level?
Now, what are you going to dowith that information?
Right, right, and I think ifthey can learn this stuff now,
(29:49):
you know at 12, and be honestwith the thing now there's, now
there is, there's the process ofthe self-awareness aspect,
right, the now, the reset, thereprogram, what I learned from
that, what can I do differentnext time to get a different
result If they're just goingthrough it, especially the AAA
level.
I mean, that's that's for thoselistening.
(30:10):
That's the context we'retalking about here.
We're talking about competitivekids who want to be better at
the game.
There needs to be some type ofa process self.
There needs to be some type ofa process, self-assessment
process for them to get better.
If they're constantly toldthey're doing a good job, then
that just they don't.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
You're not allowing them the opportunity that's a
great point and I think what Ilike about it, doing it this way
, is that now you're giving,putting the choice back on them.
Now it's their choice.
Are you choosing to take thisinformation and get better and
take and try it our way, whichmight be uncomfortable?
And I think sometimes and I'llsay this to some people last
(30:46):
year, not so much this year butI'm not going to solve Johnny's
problem by putting him with adifferent player I need him to
hunt sometimes.
I like that.
He's smart and he likes tohover and he likes to find the
quiet area.
But sometimes he needs to hunt.
It can't just be everybody elsehunting and he's doing that.
(31:07):
So I'm not going to fix it forhim and change the lineup,
change the line, just because Iknow it'll.
Let him just do what he likesto do.
I'm going to make himuncomfortable, because what
happens if he's not scoring orhe's not affecting the game
positively because he'sproducing, how else is he going
to affect the game?
He's got to find another way toaffect the game.
(31:29):
Or else I'm making himone-dimensional because I'm
happy he scored two goals, butreally I don't think he played
well.
You know I mean like.
So that's the challenge is,like I always tell, we have a
really one of our players is anearly 2013.
He was born in January,technically 13.
So he's a 13.
And he's playing on our 2012s.
(31:53):
And you know, sometimes I'lltell him, I'll say do you want
to be a goal scorer or do youwant to be a hockey player
Because you're a goal scorer?
Do you want to be a goal scoreror do you want to be a hockey
player Because you're a goalscorer?
There's no question.
But to be a hockey player,you're going to have to change
some things.
You're going to have to try ita different way sometimes,
because, as I'm sure you'reaware, like sometimes, those
guys will go through the gameand the game will end, and
they'll be like what happened?
I didn't get anything.
(32:14):
I'm like, well, you should haverecognize that eight minutes in
and made the adjustment to getmore on the hunt, and then then,
then, it'll flow for you.
So it's, it's so much fun toshow them this part, to teach
them this part to when they'reaccepting of it, and then,
though, the light will go on,the big oh, okay yeah, you're
right I get it I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, I mean building the.
There's so many dynamics.
My two right now, my two outplayers, so my 0-9 and my 12,
they're both more playmakers,right, and you're talking about
hunting.
So they want the puck andthey're good at distributing it,
but when they don't have thepuck, they're so anxious to get
(32:57):
into the mix right, because theywant the puck that they forget
that quiet, quiet ice and theyalso take themselves out of that
area to score.
So it's funny, like right nowin our own home, like that's
what I'm working on with them.
It's like being above the puck,being above the play, let it
happen and then jump into a seam, you know.
So you can be the one that getsthe shot, not always the one
that's setting somebody up forit.
But, yeah, everyone has theirlike, their tendencies, right,
(33:20):
which is great.
And if you want to expand,expand yourself, I mean, that is
the way you have to see thegame.
You have to be able to see itfrom as many ways as possible,
and it's great that you're,you're given to your, your boys,
the opportunity there to seethat.
On the minor hockey kind oftopic that we're on here, the
(33:44):
father, son um, is one of themost.
Uh, I don't know what the rightway to put it is, but there's
been a lot of bad experiences.
Let's just say that in in myhockey community, I got my
hockey facebook group and andthere's a lot of discussion
about that right like the uh,what is that called?
When parents take care of theirown kids?
There's some word for nepotismyeah.
So the nepotism involved, rightthat you know the, the cap, the,
the dad's son has the sea allthe time and gets the most ice.
It might not be the best player, and blah, blah, blah, blah,
(34:06):
blah.
Um, I, when I started, I was sohyper aware of that that I
actually took the oppositedirection, and I'll just tell
you a quick story.
It was like two months into theseason we were coming home from
a game and I almost choke upanytime I've ever tell the story
.
But Hudson said to me he's like,dad, why don't you coach me
like the way you coach everybodyelse?
Like I wouldn't talk to him,like I was doing the opposite,
(34:28):
because I was like so focused ofnot being that guy that I was
involved and invest in everybodyelse and I wouldn't even invest
in my own kid, right.
So I took it, I took it too farthe one way, and now I found a.
You know, the longer you dosomething, obviously the better
you get at it now.
Now I think I found a reallygood balance of being able to
coach my own kids along witheverybody else's.
But how have you taken that?
And and where is your awarenessat with your, you know,
(34:49):
involvement with your own son,who obviously you care about and
and you know, and hisinvolvement in the game well,
it's a work in progress.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, I'm definitely harder on him in the way that I
speak to him in games.
I have less patience with him,so I think I have to work on how
that communication happens.
What I'd like to get to is apoint where it's one of the
other coaches that arecommunicating to him, because I
(35:22):
am very quick to get on himabout certain things, or like
reads, or if he's not beingaggressive enough or hard enough
, or doesn't come to the benchhard enough, it's like, or
extends his shifts too long.
So it's it's definitely achallenge.
I think that I am harder on him.
(35:43):
I think that his makeup is hecan handle it.
He'll come back at me atsometimes too, but we're still
figuring that out because Idon't think it's healthy to
continue that.
I also do check-ins with him,like to know, like that I care
that I want the best for him,but that only goes so far.
(36:04):
I think that I have to getbetter at just letting it happen
and letting the other coachesdo it.
What I see is I think it's justto be honest with you, it's
probably more on me.
I've got to get better at it inhow I communicate with him in
(36:24):
game um.
He also needs to do a betterjob of receiving that feedback
when it happens, yeah and so.
But I'm the adult so I think Ithink it all like 90 of 90.
I'll take on me and like soI've tried a new approach.
At times I'm not great at it,but I have tried a new approach
(36:44):
with him where I'll say I'm notgoing to yell at you, I'm going
to sit you down, I'm going totalk to you calmly, but then you
have to take the informationand like, use it.
You can't just ignore me whenI'm telling, communicating the
way you have chosen, that youwould like me to communicate
with you, right, yeah and so.
But there's times where I doget on him about skating,
(37:07):
because sometimes he getswatching and the problem is not
problem but the part that as acoach is, sometimes you get the
reaction you want and you'relike it worked.
So it's like I'm going to haveto do that again.
So you know when you need moreout of them and you need a spark
(37:27):
, you need something.
That's.
It's hard because when I havegotten on them, it's if I did
that to my middle daughter, shewould shut down, it'd be, it'd
be done, my older one.
I could get on him, get on hard, and she would respond well, it
would be done my older one.
I could get on hard and shewould respond.
Well, when I get on him heresponds positively more times
than not.
(37:48):
So it's I will say I'm not goodat it, it's a work in progress.
It's the reason why I probably,you know, at 15, like you know,
you're kind of like where's thenext coach for him?
like when is that happening?
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's nice that we havedifferent voices.
Like phil mccray comes out onwednesdays basically helps run
(38:11):
all or the whole practice, theyget a different voice as a group
.
Um, it's healthy for them tohave a different voice and all
three of us coaches coachdifferently, right?
So that's a long-winded answerto tell you that I'm not very
good at it and that it's a workin progress.
(38:31):
But I think, having thosecheck-ins with him on the way
home, I asked him do you want totalk about the game?
Do you want to talk about it?
Sometimes it's yes, sometimesit's no.
On the way to the game, I can'thelp myself.
Sometimes I'm like I'll texthim three things and that's all
I get.
I'll like say move your feet.
If a guy's even with you by thetime you get to the like you're
(38:54):
on the entry, guys even withyou by the hash mark, cut back.
Like you know what I mean.
I'll give him three pointersand then I'll leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I'm going to take a short break from the
conversation with Jamal to saythank you to everyone who has
emailed or reached out throughthe website, who is interested
in becoming either an ambassadoror an affiliate of the Up my
Hockey brand.
I announced it on the lastpodcast and many of you were
(39:26):
listening and that's fantastic.
So, if there is anybody, thisis something that is happening.
It is for real.
I am trying to grow the reach ofUp my Hockey in a geographic
sense, to have eitherambassadors on the ground, in
hockey hotbeds who either wantto promote the program
themselves, be a part of theaction, or have a background in
(39:48):
coaching, are immersed in thenetwork themselves and want to
grow their hockey acumen andbecome one of the Up my Hockey
mindset coaches working with meand under me through the Up my
Hockey programming that isavailable.
So two ways to be involvedeither as an ambassador or as an
affiliate slash associate, andthat's a pretty exciting time in
(40:08):
the growth of Up my Hockey.
So if you are one of thesecoaches, somebody who wants to
make the game a better place,someone who believes that
mindset is a very importantcomponent of the development arc
and want to give back to thegame, while hopefully helping
you in the compensation aspectof your growth and journey as a
coach and training, then Up myHockey may be a good avenue for
(40:31):
you to pursue.
So yeah, reach out to me atjason at upmyhockeycom or
through the contact form on mywebsite.
I look forward to theconversation and seeing if we're
a good fit.
Now let's get back to theconversation with.
Jamal Myers, good for you.
The one thing I really likedthere that you said, and one one
(40:54):
it is a challenge, I mean, andit's a dance and it's hard
enough.
Uh, you know, with a team fullof 17 where you're trying to
find all those entry pointsright and to be successful with
them, and then you have the dadhat on, including the coach hat
it is.
It is much more dynamic than Ithink.
Some people realize thathaven't been in that environment
.
But the idea of of like how canI coach you best?
(41:15):
I really encourage parents evento have that conversation with
their kids and you mean, yeah,we're talking 2012.
So what's that like?
Right now we're talking 12 yearolds.
Most 12 year olds are able tohave that conversation.
Maybe some aren't.
But like, don't discount whatyour kids are able to talk about
either.
And like asking them how do youwant to go over the game
afterwards, if at all.
Like getting them involved inthat.
(41:37):
You know how you want me toparticipate and and like that is
a really cool dynamic, becauseeven when it comes to
development, let's say, or likethe practice away from practice.
You know, some parents I getthat a lot is like he never
wants to do it.
I'm constantly nagging.
Well, as soon as you're nagging, it's over, it's done, like
right.
So it's like how do you want meto support you in this?
Like you've said, you want tobe a triple a player, or you
(41:59):
want to be this or you want tobe that.
Yet your actions aren't maybealigning with what you're
telling me.
Because they asked you to help,right.
Right, you know what I mean,and so that whole perspective is
massively different.
But that initial conversationhas to happen.
(42:19):
So you mean kind of along-winded answer to your point
, but like you asking him hey,like this is how I want to be
coached.
Essentially, I don't want to beyelled at.
That's a pretty, that's apretty mature conversation, you
know.
And then so you're coming athim in a mature way and, yes,
you're gonna have to turn thevolume up every now and again,
like when it needs to be, but atleast you understand how he
wants to be spoken to.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I think that's pretty , pretty productive yeah, I
think that you know, at the endof the day it's not worth our
relationship, right, and so Idon't want it to get to a point
where it's affecting that.
And so I think having thosecheck-ins, even away from the
game, just making sureeverything's okay, or, even
(42:59):
smarter than that, having momhave the check-in with him to
see where he's at, is alsohelpful information.
You know, I think that thatpart allows them to like own the
process and own that the paceof what's happening.
But I do have a point to makeabout what you were talking
(43:20):
about.
The off-ice skills and andworking on it was way different
for us, right.
Like we would just grab theirstick streetlights I live in the
city, so we'd go work on ourgame.
We'd be like play street hockeyand there was a lot more
organic.
The way I suggest it for parentsnow and I do skills and stuff
too is go out there and do it inthe driveway or wherever.
(43:43):
You're doing it in the basementor in the garage for 15 minutes
and then come back in and dosomething else.
And if you tell them to do itfor 30 or 45 minutes, it's not
happening in my experience, butwhen I tell them to do it for 10
, 15 minutes.
Go work on your pull, pull itin.
But our chop, pull it in andshoot it.
(44:03):
I'll come up pass with you, ifyou want, and then he'll go.
He'll go out and do it for 15minutes, or let's say they all,
they're kids, so they go a weekand you're like you know, I
haven't seen him outsideshooting pucks in a while.
And I'll just say to him hey, Ihaven't seen you outside
shooting pucks in a while.
I think you're you, you forgotto do that.
And he'll be like oh yeah, andthen it might not be that day,
(44:25):
but the next day you'll go outand do it again, but it's never
for more than 50 minutes.
Come in, do something else, geta popsicle, do something else,
play a video game, watch tv,whatever they do on tiktok, I
don't even know, uh, whateverthey're doing with their phones,
and.
But my point is I love gettingkids to do it 10, 15 minutes
twice a day on their own.
(44:46):
Then they they're more likelyto do it every day and, as you
know, it's the compoundingeverydayness of it where they
start to improve.
Versus 30 minutes twice a week,they're not going to improve.
It's, it's too long.
It feels like work for them.
They're by themselves Most ofthe time.
It's like there's no chancethey're going to sustain that.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, you're speaking .
That's awesome Cause you'respeaking.
I mean, that's awesome becauseyou're speaking.
You're speaking exactly mylanguage.
I developed a program that's anonline program that teams can
take or individuals.
It's kind of the backbone ofwhat my mindset stuff is about.
And week two is all about.
I call it 10x development, solike ways to get better.
Um, so it's short, short formvideos throughout the week,
monday to friday, and and Ibuild up like what I call the
(45:30):
peak potential process and andpart of it at the end is like
understanding the value of timeand also the understanding of
like the deliberate practicewhen we're talking about time
and that we can't deliberatelypractice something for extended
periods of time and we canactually make the most of
smaller time increments byinvolving our head and like
having a plan and really takingthis almost like a professional
(45:54):
approach to whatever this blockis.
And I call them 20-minutemonsters in the program, so a
little bit longer than you withthe 10 to 15, but 20 minutes.
I say a 20-minute monster.
Now what are you going to do inthat 20 minutes that you're
going to dedicate mind, body,soul to to get better right and
talk about it from a strengthand weakness perspective too.
Like that, we have this planand you're 100% right because
(46:16):
that is where the that's wherethe juice happens.
Like when you not in the garageor outside shooting pucks
aimlessly to get 100 pucks inbecause dad wants me to right,
throwing them at the net.
But like actually committing tosome aspect of that shot for 20
minutes with deliberateness isgoing to do way more for you
than just throwing a hundredpucks blindly at the net.
(46:36):
So I talked to them all aboutthat process, right, and and, uh
, and.
It's great because when peopleare armed with, now, new
information, they can make newdecisions, right, and they can
be responsible for thosedecisions and their development.
And it's not a big poll or uh,or, or, you know, I mean this,
this, this, this thing comingdown from above for mom or dad
to make them do it.
They actually get invested init because now they see the
(46:57):
excitement in it and it's not ahuge piece of time.
But I will say one thing to youthat I add into the program 20
minutes a day for a year isthree, eight hour work weeks.
Think about that.
That's what that is.
That is like it's crazy whenyou think about the compounding
of time if you want to play thelong game.
(47:17):
20 minutes a day for 365 daysadds up to three eight hour work
weeks.
It's bonkers to me.
You're telling me you don'tpractice.
You practice your shot for thatlong you're not going to have
an advantage over somebody else.
You know and we're talking inthat small little chunk that you
said who doesn't have 20minutes a day?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
exactly right exactly .
You know, I love the part aboutthe intentional part, every
aspect of that, but especiallythe intentionality of it.
Um, working on somethingspecific, I think that like it's
important to create aprogression and an understanding
, like the fundamental aspect ofit, the repetitiveness of it,
(47:56):
and I try, when we do things inthe summer, joe Vitale and I, we
talk about like we aren't goingto do new things for the sake
of newness.
So it looks new, oh, it's a newday, new.
No, no, no.
The warmup and the stickhandling and all these things
that we're doing, thefoundational elements, whether
it's a backhand or a toe drag orwhatever it is, it's going to
be the same every day.
(48:16):
Because it takes thatrepetitiveness, that
consistently doing it to getbetter.
And I tell the kids that ifthey want to get better, they're
going to have to sink into thatmonotony of that specific drill
, that specific skill, doing itover and over and, over and over
(48:37):
again.
That's why you see, like colby,doing a simple crossover, step
back shot, like the simplestthing that you would think,
because that's the foundationfor everything.
So it's it's so important thatthey know that 100 i%.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I mean that a big word for some people out there.
I know it's for me, but it'smyelination, Like, it's the art
of learning, like, which isanother thing that I actually
touch on.
Like the four stages oflearning and like getting those
brain connections wired so itbecomes awesome and automatic,
like there's not an awkwardnessin it.
We can do other things, we canalmost do it without thinking
right, because it's soprogrammed in and we've
(49:13):
dedicated the time to it that weend up in this spot where it is
automatic, right, and that'stotally foundation.
And talk about the nuances andthe layers you can get in that
right, like of whatever thatskill is and coaches, my gosh,
yeah, you're hitting a passionpoint for me of like, and half
the parents don't know anybetter.
Like every skill practice isthis new thing with new
(49:35):
apparatuses and you it's.
You're not getting any betterat all unless you have the
foundation that you're buildingfrom that.
It shouldn't be like a circusshow out there and just trying
to keep everything novel, um,and it doesn't mean it's better,
it's actually the.
I think that the guys well, Imean that's I'm biased because
it is my approach, but like, Ifeel like I'm 20 years behind
when I'm watching everyone elsedoing cause I'm doing.
(49:56):
I'm doing basic edge work, I'mdoing basic skills, uh, you know
, when it comes to stickhandling, adding progressions in
a movement and reads, but like,if you don't have those pieces
dialed, like, why are you goinganywhere else?
Um, so anyway, I don't know.
I kind of I don't have anattention on that, but it's so
true, I'm 100 on board.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's like anarms race right now with, like
(50:18):
you know, trying to the moregadgets you can have on the ice,
the better your practice is, orsomething it's I'm like can we
get rid of these gadgets?
Speaker 1 (50:26):
like I'm trying to get less things on the ice I'm
so happy we're at the age nowwhere we don't have to bring
cones on the ice.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, no doubt I had one more question, but we're on
time.
Should we cut it?
I wanted to ask you about theNCAA, since you were involved.
Yeah, is that okay?
Yeah, so I want to talk alittle bit more about your.
I mean, played university superyoung, came out of there,
actually got drafted fromuniversity.
You weren't in competition atthat point with any junior
(50:58):
players that wanted to also, uh,maybe have a have a bite of
that.
The announcement last week withthe ncaa now allowing chl
players, uh, to takescholarships, um, you know, in
some cases away from otherplayers, I think what do you
think that does to the landscapeof ncaa um in particular, and
maybe the Junior A route mightbe even more interesting in
general to that.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Yeah, honestly, I think it's going to squeeze in
two areas in my opinion.
I think what happens is you'regoing to see the majority of
players still come from the USHLand the North American League
is going to get squeezed, and Ithink that the BC League is
going to get squeezed, becausewhat's going to happen, in my
(51:36):
opinion, is, if I'm, let's say,I went to Western Michigan,
they're building a new rink in2028, and we can now take junior
players.
I am hiring a dedicated scoutfor the OHL and the Western
League and even perhaps even theQuebec League to go scour
undrafted players that areplaying junior currently, that
(52:01):
are wondering what the heckthey're going to do, but are
really good players, and I wantto take them at 19 and offer
them a full.
Basically, what you're offeringthem, in my opinion, is forget
the scholarship, because they'renot there for the scholarship.
They're.
They're not even there for theeducation.
You know what they're there for.
They're there to extend theirhockey lives, and that, to me,
(52:24):
would be the catch.
That I would say is, I can buyyou five more, four more years
of development to realize yourdream.
And oh, by the way, yourparents are going to love this
part you're actually going tohave a degree when you're done
and if you are done, you have adegree.
So that would be my strategy.
But I think you're right.
Where does it get constricted?
(52:45):
Well, I think they're going tostart taking players from junior
.
Just makes sense.
The ushl will be fine becausethere's still a ton of really,
really good players there and alot of americans are not going
to want to go to canada playjunior, so they're going to just
go to the ushl and then go toschool.
And then that's where I thinkit hurts the north american
league and that's where I thinkit hurts the bc league.
(53:08):
Because you've seen it right,like the reason why I was
fortunate, I went to college at18 or 17, but my as a true
freshman.
Well, because quinnipiac won anational championship.
Now these other schools realizehey, wait a second, I could
take a 20 year old freshman.
So the trend now is there'svery rare to take a freshman
that's 18.
If they'd be a very, there'smaybe a handful of them now.
(53:30):
Um, I just fear that it's goingto squeeze out kids in the
North American League.
It's going to squeeze out kids.
It's going to buy kids andjunior an extra life.
But what it would also do isyou have a 2012.
The idea of playing junior tome is now a possibility, because
(53:52):
I can convince my wife hey, ifhe's good enough to play junior
at 16, 17, 18, he could still goto school after that if he ends
up not being good enough.
Yeah, and, and and.
So that's what I think ends uphappening.
There's a lot smarter peoplethat know the interdynamics of
(54:13):
what's gonna happen, but mythinking is, if you take four
kids off of each junior team Imean major junior team that go
play college, well, they'retaking someone's spot from
somewhere, right yeah, yeah, Imean, it's just.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I mean, I think it's just the black and white of it,
right?
I mean a 19 year old playingthe BCJ, trying to get a
scholarship, is usually therebecause he wasn't good enough in
the beginning, right, to get tothe WHL or the OHL.
Not saying that they can'timprove or go, but I'm just
saying across the board, right,so now you're giving a
scholarship to somebody in theBC junior league at 19 because
(54:51):
you don't have access to the 19year old in the WHL.
Yeah, is this?
Is this not a?
That player in the WHL, I wouldsay seven times out of 10 is
probably better, maybe even morethan that.
You know, I'm trying to begracious, right?
So, like there is going to be,I think, more scholarships taken
away from those leagues you'retalking about.
I would suspect I just makesense to me uh, which also then,
(55:15):
I think, makes collegepotentially get a little bit
older.
I think it maybe makes all theleagues a bit older.
Like I think that maybe the whlgets older because now they
have the ability to to go to thebcj, where they couldn't before
, and now they can have a 19year old.
There's a hell of a good hockeyplayer and probably better than
17 year old they would have, orthe 18 year old they would have
, right.
So why not make campcompetitive and see what that
league's like?
So so now they have access tomore players too.
(55:36):
I think maybe the bcj gets alittle bit younger.
It's more of a developmentleague for the whl.
Um, yeah, it's going to beinteresting, though it really is
going to be interesting.
Who knows what?
What it's gonna, what it'sgonna be.
But I I just love the fact thatfor someone like me, looking
looking back at like I wouldhave loved to have had at least
the option right, not saying Iwould have I signed early and
played pro early, but it wouldstill have been great not to
(55:58):
have to make this ultimatedecision at 15 years old about
which path I was taking.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Didn't ever make sense, right?
Every pro player that I playedwith that played junior.
Whenever they've been to acollege game or they see college
, they're like, why didn't I dothis?
This would have beenunbelievable.
Play on the weekends and be astudent and like this would be
unbelievable.
So you know, I grew up inToronto so I wanted to play in
(56:26):
the OHL because you see theglobal game of the week, the
Longine Wittenauer player of thegame on Saturdays on global.
You're like, oh, that looks socool, I want to do that.
Um, I wasn't good enough and soI had to go to college.
I wasn't, you know, I gotdrafted but I said I was going
to school.
Um, you know, I think it'll beinteresting.
I just, you're right, I thinkit becomes.
(56:48):
It becomes an older league, ormaybe it goes the other way.
Let's say you're, you're a,you're london, and you say I'm
philosophically only going tohave a team of 16 and 17 year
olds and maybe I create such agreat example or like system for
them that they want to stay.
And so then you know that'swhat you're building up, because
(57:10):
it's hard to develop if youjust grab kids when they're 18,
19.
Like, it makes it harder.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
I think the draft is still going to be super relevant
.
But I think, like it's justlike those top guys will get fed
in but I think there'll be lessroom for some of the other ones
.
You know what I mean.
Like there's going to beanother place to go right.
Like I think there's alwaysgoing to be a desire to develop
your top product, just like inthe NHL, right.
I mean like the top guys willbe there, right, and then the
(57:36):
other guys go to the AHL andthey scrap it out.
But it's definitely interesting.
I mean there's already beenannouncements right from the WHO
I know I'm more tied here tothe West of like guys going to
college next year and moving on.
And yeah, it's going to be.
I'm interested to see whathappens to the AJHL BCHL.
(57:57):
You know what that looks likeas far as who they bring in and
what camp looks like next yearfrom the WHL level.
Like are there any BCHL guyscoming?
It's going to be interesting.
A lot of the guys from Ontario.
Here's a guy from West KelownaPridham, I think, is his last
name.
He's a chicago blackhawks draftthird rounder.
He was here in west colona, um.
He left like days after theannouncement.
(58:18):
He's going playing forkitchener in the ohl now like
and that's he's not the only onevernon viper's here they lost
two guys to the whl boom really,yeah, they left.
So like the bcj is alreadylosing players, um, you know, in
some capacity because thesedifferent routes have been open.
So I think we're just startingto see the dominoes fall about
what's going to happen thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
I I never even thought about it happening that
way, but that's that makes a tonof sense, because they would
have went to junior, but they'relike no, I want to keep my
eligibility now, they're like no, I can go yeah, it makes the
chl better.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
I think, like the top , the top guys, right, and
there's not that many top guyslike that actually stay, you
know, like, like, who would bethe the most recent one there?
Oh, like the, the Nadeaubrothers, right.
So a first rounder to the NHLdraft from the BCJ.
I mean, it happens every oncein a while, but not very often.
Usually those best guys arealready playing junior somewhere
else, like you know, majorjunior, but those guys don't
(59:10):
have to stay there, right?
So those top guys will go toCHL most likely.
Why wouldn't you?
It's a better league, right.
Better towns, better venues,better, everything, right
Exposure.
So I think, yeah, like thatwhole thing is going to be
interesting.
I don't know Whatever.
I have a bunch of parents askme, so I wanted your opinion
from what it looks like for youguys out there.
(59:32):
And I do agree with that ushlscenario, because there's no
reason why that would change atall.
All the us players would stillgo there.
You mean, like I shouldn't sayall some.
Maybe you want to play a longerseason, potentially, and maybe
they'll, they'll hop the borderbecause they can, but I think
for the most part of that leaguewill be intact and nothing much
will change with it.
It's going to be the subsidiaryleagues that that maybe see an
input, but anyways, we're overtime.
(59:52):
Uh, loved chatting with you,boy.
We barely even got into yourstuff, but that's the way hockey
goes, especially when there'sso many aspects to cover.
But I really appreciate youcoming on today, jamal and um,
and sharing your, your story andand your coaching story here.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Uh, today, yeah, so happy for you and excited for
all the stuff you're doing, andbest of luck with everything.
Thanks man, see you doing well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Thank you for being a listener of the up my hockey
podcast and for listening tothat entire conversation with
Jamal Myers.
I know I enjoyed it.
It is a little shorter thanwhat you're used to here If
you're a long time listener.
They got my hockey podcast 40minutes but that was what
Jamal's schedule could allow andI sure enjoyed the time.
We did have to shoot the breezeabout youth hockey During that
(01:00:41):
conversation.
You probably remember a partwhere we were talking about
deliberate practice.
Obviously, conversations arecompletely unscripted and Jamal
brought up the idea of 10 to 15minutes a day for younger
players to go out maybe twice aday to work on their game and to
really compound their skilldevelopment, and I was able to
talk a little bit about the PeakPotential Program and how
(01:01:02):
that's a main piece of week two.
So I just wanted to double backon that and just talk to you
parents and players out therethat maybe feel that they aren't
investing as much as they canoutside of their practice time.
That is a common concern that Ihave through the mindset quiz
that is offered on my website,that players regardless of age,
(01:01:25):
like junior players all the waydown to U13 players, feel a type
of guilt sometimes that theyaren't doing enough away from
the rink, that they feel thatthere is more that they could do
.
They're not motivated enough.
Maybe they don't have theintention of what to do or the
consistency and accountabilityto do it.
Which is why because it's sucha common theme even across
(01:01:49):
high-level players that Icreated week two of the peak
potential process.
It talks about the four stagesof learning.
It talks about the processrequired to get better.
It breaks down the stages of.
It, gives you a strength andweakness builder and talks about
deliberate practice.
In the 20 minute monster whichI referred to, week two of the
peak potential process isessentially worth the entire
(01:02:13):
price of the program because theplayers that do use the
information involved in there islike we're talking about
maximizing development for along time.
The longer the runway, thelonger you understand how
development works, the longeryou can apply deliberate
practice to your own growth.
The gains are absolutelyexponential.
(01:02:37):
And parents that's one of thebiggest responses from parents
is seeing the new dedication andaccountability that the players
have and they don't have to beinvolved in the idea of hey, did
you do this?
Hey, shouldn't you do that, whyhaven't you done this?
Players take accountability.
They have their two-weekplanner set up on an ongoing
(01:02:58):
basis.
They know what they're going todo, they know when they're
going to do it and they'reexcited to do it because they've
been taught the reasons of howit's going to help them and they
see the results that they'regetting and that they are
getting better, that they'regetting that they are getting
better.
So if that speaks to you, youmight be somebody that wants to
get your player involved in thePeak Potential program.
It's an ongoing rotation.
As far as the guided mission isconcerned, that's when the
(01:03:19):
players get to work with me oncoaching calls at the end of
each week.
So you can check my website forwhen the next one is being
offered Right now.
If you are listening to thislive, the next one is going to
be launched November 25th.
We are going to startofficially with lessons that day
, on the Monday.
So it might be good timing foryou, right before Christmas, to
(01:03:42):
get some new insight, new tools,new perspectives into the
brains of your players so theycan utilize them for the second
half of the season.
If that timing works out, greatfor you.
Check out the mindset quiz atupmyhockeycom.
That's all I got for you today.
Hope you enjoyed.
Jamal.
Jamal, thank you for being on.
Really appreciate you and whatyou're doing, and until next
(01:04:02):
time, this is Jason Padone.
Play hard and keep your head up.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.