EP.144 - Brad Lukowich on Teamwork, Trades, and Triumphs - Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think the amount of players that are out there that
can play at a high skill levelnow is incredible.
What you don't see as much isthem playing together as a group
.
There's a lot of individualplay, a lot of onus on the one
guy, the top player, but that'show it is at the top level.
Who's the best player?

(00:20):
Toronto Maple Leafs they'regoing to spit a name out over
here, so you've got your topfour guys.
A lot of guys are just reallyfocusing on being in the top
four versus trying to focus onback in our day, like I had no
problem, focusing on being arole player guy, a guy that hit,
like to fight, like to like toblock shots, like to make passes
, like to be a skill, like toset up the skill guy and be

(00:41):
there for him.
They don't really have that.
Now it's I want to score everyshift, I'm on the ice, I don't
want to play defense, so mypreparation is that way, and
then when we put them into achallenging role of something
that they're not generally usedto, it becomes quite chaotic
actually, that was two-timeMemorial Cup champion and

(01:03):
two-time Stanley Cup champion,brad Lukowicz, and you are
listening to the Up my Hockeypodcast with Jason Padolan.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Welcome to Up my Hockey with Jason Padolan, where
we deconstruct the NHL journey,discuss what it takes to make
it and have a few laughs alongthe way.
I'm your host, jason Padolan, a31st overall draft pick who
played 41 NHL games but thoughthe was destined for a thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.

(01:44):
My guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hey there, and welcome back tothe Up my Hockey podcast with
Jason Padolan.
I am your host, jason Padolan,and this is episode 144 on the
docket and we are speaking withBrad Lukowich.
Brad Lukowich is a long timeNHLer, 658 games to his credit.
He did win two Stanley Cups,one in which he got his name

(02:09):
engraved on it and one in whichhe didn't yet still played eight
games that season with theDallas Stars in 1999.
That was when he was firstgetting his feet wet in the
league, and he went on to playfor the Tampa Bay Lightning
where he won his second cup.
He also went to the Islanders.

(02:29):
He was with the Devils, he wasback with the Lightning, he was
with the Sharks, had a cup ofcoffee in Vancouver and then
ended his career back in Dallas.
He also spent some time in theIHL and AHL and maybe as notable
as his NHL career was hisjunior career with the Kamloops
Blazers, where he was a part ofthe dynasty of major junior

(02:53):
hockey that went to three, Ibelieve three cup actually won
three in a row.
I don't think he was part ofthe first one.
He won in 94,.
He won in 95,.
The likes of and we talk aboutit a little bit on the
discussion, but Jerome McGinleymight be a name you recall,

(03:13):
shane Doan might be a name thatyou recall, darcy Tucker might
be a name that you recall, andothers Tyson Nash, jason Holland
, strudwick, lukowicz himselfthe list goes on as far as the
types of names that were on thisKamloops Blazers squad during

(03:34):
that time when we were trying towin points off them in Spokane
and quite a special thing theyhad there.
So we talk about that time inKamloops.
Brad is now also a U15 headcoach for a double A team
outside of Dallas that istraveling across, you know,
western North America.
They were just up at atournament in Vancouver.

(03:54):
So now he is wearing thecoaching hat after his years and
years of experience as a player.
He doesn't have a player on theteam, he's just doing it for
the love and wants to give back,and we definitely dip our toe
into the waters of youth hockeyand development and his
philosophies and strategiesaround that, while we intertwine

(04:14):
his career and some of thelessons he learned with that.
So yeah, luko is a great guy.
He's one of those teammatesthat everyone recalls fondly
maybe not so fondly if you wereto play against him.
He always played a hard-nosedgame and made you earn every
inch, and I think that was oneof the things that was really
respected about him throughouthis time in the NHL and as a pro

(04:37):
, and one of those things thathe does recall as a Kamloops
Blazer that was taught to himearly how to provide value and
how to gain self-esteem inknowing what that value is.
And that was one of theundercurrents of our
conversation here today Lots oflessons for the amateur player
trying to get somewhere.
Lots of lessons for the parentson the call, as usual, and

(05:00):
hopefully also for coaches outthere on what to place your
emphasis on in your strategiesin developing players these days
.
So not often you get a two-timeStanley Cup champion on the
show, not often you get atwo-time Memorial Cup champion
on the show, and even rarer tohave both combined in the same
package.
I wonder how many players inhistory have been able to do

(05:23):
that there.
Sure as heck can't be very many.
It would be a very short list.
So, yeah, feel grateful thatyou're here to listen to some
lessons by Brad Lukowich,two-time Memorial Cup champion,
two-time Stanley Cup championand player of 658 NHL regular
season games.
Brad Lukowich, coming at younow.

(05:44):
All right, here we are forepisode 144, and I don't know
what to call you.
I mean, definitely a buddy, butan old adversary for sure.
I mean, we battled in thecorners a few times, but either
way, friend and foe, bradlukowicz, welcome to the pod
partner.
Hey, thanks for having me.
Man appreciate it.
Yeah, tons of fun.

(06:04):
We tried to do it.
Like I said before we got onhere.
I forget, at some point itnever worked out.
And we've been, uh, we've beengoing back and forth on text
messages, uh, and I was likelet's do it.
And it worked out today.
So cool, yeah, um, so you're indallas right I am.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'm down in dallas.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I live just up north, about 45 minutes, in a little
town, salina cool so Cool, soyou decided to call Dallas home
after you finished your careerthere.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Well, when I married my wife back in the day, it was
kind of one of those ones whereyou know there's a chance you
can travel.
But you know, being from here,I love Dallas and if we do leave
we'll always have anopportunity to come back.
So at the end of my career Ireally didn't know where to go
and we decided to come back downhere and fulfill that promise.
And she's doing good and I'mdoing good in the hockey world.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
So so glad we came.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
So she's a local dallas girl then she's from
about 80 miles out, a littletown called jacksboro um,
because her dad still lives upthere and uh yeah, so it's as
far from drive from us.
Our hour and 20 minutes we canbe there, so cool how's the
alumni community there?
the alumni community is slowlygrowing.
Actually, obviously, the, thetiming of the of the years,

(07:14):
right.
So now that it's been there for30 years, a lot of those guys
that first came here went righthome.
Now, the guys that have madedallas a home of you know, that
were kind of the originalmembers.
There's about 15 of us here,and then we also extend that out
to the, the guys that didn'tjust play in Dallas, but maybe
we're, maybe we're from here orplayed from another team and

(07:34):
married a local girl orsomething like that, so they
also are here.
So we have also our, our NHLalumni guys here that we kind of
share the space with, and thenyou know it's growing.
We got a couple new guys, acouple new dads that have some
kids in hockey with hammer, uh,alice hemski, and, and now with
jordy ben kind of just hangingthem up we've seen him at the

(07:54):
rink.
We got little, uh, justincortenal here in town now too.
So so those are the threenewest guys.
We got blake como recently, uhlast year, you know, and then.
So those are kind of our newestmembers right now.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
So if anyone wants to play us, we've got a few
ringers, so it's uh, we're still, we're still, we're still
pretty competitive right I wasgoing to ask you, like some of
the names that that are there,so those are a lot of names that
people would recognize.
Um that are kicking around andI and uh, I know because we
talked before, but for those athome, you're supposed to be on a
pickup game right now.
So most of those guys.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, they're out on the ice right now.
I took I won the kind of likeon the injured reserve.
I guess I'd get fined if it wasfor real.
No, I have a friend of minethat I'm very blessed to be
buddies with.
He works with Metallica, sohe's he's kind of busy all the
time and when he's home he doestattoos, so our schedules just

(08:53):
kind of like with us.
We had a chance where theycrossed paths and I jumped in
the chair and, not knowing, wehad a skate today, so I'm just
taking the precautionary.
You know it's not a long-terminjury, it's just a couple of
days.
You know, as you're older yougot to take care of yourself
would that be considered?

Speaker 2 (09:07):
uh, would that be considered a lower body injury
or an upper body?

Speaker 1 (09:10):
it was a lower body.
Uh, I've got a whole uh legsleeve that I've been working on
for about two years.
So, um, I finally got her.
I finally got a chance to.
We're almost there.
We got about probably one ortwo more visits.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
My buddy hammer uh, he does a heck of a job, so
we're excited to get it donehere, hopefully, hopefully the
next next couple months so I hadno idea we're going to talk
about tattoos, but I do have toask you.
So I uh, 16 years old, playinghockey down in in spokane I
don't know how or what, but likethey let me go into a tattoo
parlor and and got two tattoos.

(09:43):
Actually one was sean gillum,after we won the gold uh for the
world juniors, and then anankle one, um, like typical at
the time, right, like it's uh,holding the holding the hockey
stick, right, you know so.
But the one on my ankle, like Iremember, was, I mean, I'll
call it excruciating, like itwas.
It was a painful thing.
The one on my thigh, not somuch like anything for you there

(10:05):
, with, with, with the legtattoo, any areas more sensitive
than others.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, the back of the knee is a scorcher, uh, front
of the knee is a scorcher, uh,and then that ankle area is
really, really tough.
So, like it was this, this wasthe the ending of mine.
It was, uh, the inside of the,the calf and uh, and my shin,
all the way down to the ankle, acouple turtles on there and it
was uh, I felt every little bit.

(10:32):
It was like they were, theywere they're eating me, man it.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
that was a rough one real tough one today, crazy okay
, so I'm not alone in that.
Then I haven't had many tattoodiscussions, but I just remember
being like grabbing the,grabbing the, the uh place that
I was lying on there and it was.
It was tough, the ankle was,was, uh was a good one.
Yeah, sure, that was right.
Um, all right, man, you knowwhat I want to start?
I love going back.
I do this every time, like I.

(10:56):
You know, when we were younger,we didn't have a chance to look
at anything online because therewas hockey db never existed, or
elite prospects or any of thesescenarios and and so now you
can go back and and look atplayers like yourself and see
where you actually were andwhere you went and what the
journey was like and um, prettyexciting, I mean, once we cross
pass.
I don't mean know how it waswith you, but junior we were all

(11:18):
together, we were all fightingfor the same stuff and, you know
, playing each other all thetime, and then all of a sudden
we turned pro and you kind oflost track of everybody.
Really, you know, um, let'stalk about that, the camels
blazers, because we'd be stupidnot to uh, it was probably one
of the biggest destinies, ordynasties, I should say ever.
Uh, and you were a part of it.
Uh, just straight up, what wasyour first memory of that group

(11:43):
and your time there in Kamloops?
That?

Speaker 1 (11:47):
team.
It's just such a special group.
I remember all the stuff offthe ice but a lot of times you
say you don't remember theon-ice stuff.
I do remember a lot of theon-ice stuff about how amazing
Jerome was, how incredible ShaneDoan was.
Not only were they good, butthey were tough, they were so
focused.
Doan was not only were theygood, but they were tough, they

(12:07):
were so focused.
Like everything about that team.
You, you kind of if anythingwas to be.
You're not supposed to use theword perfect when you're a coach
, but man, that team was perfect.
There was everything about it.
We were tough, we were fast, wewere we.
We loved each other, we wererelentless.
We do anything for one another.
I mean, to this day, you know,give these guys a phone call,
you know that the next guy wouldbe there for them.

(12:27):
Um, it was just, it was such abrotherhood.
We always hung out with oneanother, we always stick up for
one another.
Um, just, a very, very specialbond that you have and winning
teams have that moving forwardwhen you get into to, uh, to
winning, even at the higherlevel.
It's different at junior becauseyou're going through a lot of
things in your life in that time.

(12:48):
You know there's a bigtransition, you know, obviously
with just becoming kind of acelebrity in your hometown.
You know you're a pretty bigdeal living in Kamloops.
That team, that is a verycoveted team by the city.
It's owned by the city, soyou're representing a lot more
than just the just the Blazers,right?
So Blazer pride meant the wholecity was behind you and I when

(13:11):
I mean that I don't people thinkpeople understand what that
really means took down to thebillets, to the Zamboni drivers,
to the police officers lettingus scream by to make sure that
we're not late for practice,because if we were, then Don Hay
was going to sit out, some ofthe best players, because he
would do that.
So you know, like, well, I hopethat was so-and-so, because if

(13:31):
not we're going to be late andthe only light give a little
little flash of the lights andwe just keep on going and maybe
nine guys in the car making sureyou're not late for practice.
But those are those things,those team bonding things, that
now you, just you, you, everynow, and then I'll just chuckle
like how was cameron's like?
And all this laughing, waittill I tell you this story, you
know, and it's just those funnylittle things that happen, that

(13:54):
they're just so awesome.
And then it there's no doubt inour minds there was better teams
, probably on paper that year in94, because really ultimately
we were building for 95 portlandhad a killer team, spokane had
a killer team a little bit olderthan us too, right.
So there was that kind of like,well, maybe maybe these guys
are going to be good, but maybethey're just not there.

(14:15):
And then in 94, at christmas,when, uh, when it all clicked
for us and the guys from worldjunior came back and we kind of
saw what we had in front of us,we just just kind of focused on
ourselves, how we focus, on howwe can make each other better.
There's that friendlycompetition that you talked
about earlier, that we had noteven playing on the same team.

(14:35):
Well, that resonated inside ourwalls where, you know, if I did
10 pushups, jerome was going todo 11.
You know.
And if Jerome did 11, thenShane did, you know, 12,.
And as you're leaving the room,you look over your shoulder and
there's Jerome McGinley makingsure that he's doing two more.
So he did 13, you know.
So there's always that constantcompetition which you saw that

(14:56):
and you wanted to be better.
You also didn't want to leteach other down.
So to me that's what Cam'staught me, it's what drove me to
be a winner and I believethat's why teams in the future
wanted me around.
That's where I learned it andit was just ingrained in me,
like put the team first, teamfirst, team first.
Then think about yourself,because if you're not thinking

(15:17):
about yourself and being thebest part of your puzzle, then
the team doesn't work.
So that was kind the ingrainedat a young age.
Through, you know, I can goback to colin patterson and then
don hay, through tom renny andall those guys.
That was that blazer prideculture, you know.
Moving to kalamazoo, hitch wasa coach there so he brought that
culture there then into dallas.

(15:37):
So for me my transition thatway was actually quite, quite
easy right, wow, yeah, youtouched on it.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
I'm making notes here as you go, like that, you you
don't know what I assume I meanyou you said there that what you
had was special, right, and andit was.
It turned out that it was, andit turns out that it was a gift
of a lesson and all these otherthings.
Yet at the time you, youweren't like, hey, this is a
dynasty we're on right now orthis is, you know, like you

(16:07):
don't really recognize what itis until sometimes when you
leave.
And I know a lot of guys havecome on and said you know, once
you've seen that you want toreplicate it, or at least you
have an idea of it, but it's notthe easiest thing to do, and
there's so many factors thatcome into developing a culture
like that in Kamloops andthere's so many factors that
come into, uh, developing aculture like that in Kamloops.
And one thing I'm gonna I'mgonna trigger you with a little

(16:27):
bit is when I was talking withJerome on this podcast, where he
was talking about his firstyear as a 16 year old there and
uh, and how, at Christmas time,he he said he really did want to
go home at times.
You know, uh, he said the waythat the culture was there was
kind of the only thing that kindof kept him there, but it was
also the thing that wanted himto leave, meaning that he had a

(16:48):
hard time getting into games.
You know Jerome again the futureHall of Famer I'm sure he was
really good as a 16 year old,but he only played games.
And he said there was a thingwith Hazer that you know he'd
maybe get three shifts in the inthe first and two in the third,
and then if, if, or two in thethird and then if, or two in the
second, and if the game wasclose he probably wouldn't play
in the third.
So he wasn't playing much evenwhen he was in the lineup.
Now, that was part of theecosystem there.

(17:11):
Right, that was part of of howthe system worked, uh, and maybe
that was part of the way thatyou're saying hey, team first,
you second, like it's, it'sbrought in, push from within,
all this stuff.
But did you experience that asa defenseman as well?
Like was there?
Was there a, you know, agestation period?
Let's call it for you to becomea, become a regular in that
environment.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, well, he came in as a 16 year old and
ultimately it's it's.
It's actually quiteunderstandable that a 16 year
old would maybe take take alittle longer and pay his dues a
little bit longer.
Where I came in as a 17 yearold, so we were rookies together
.
I'm a year older, uh, butcoming in um I.
I went home as a 16 year oldcause I wasn't going to play at

(17:52):
all, so I went back to toCranbrook, played there.
So really, instead of sittingon the bench and doing that, I
went home, played ton of ton,got a ton of points, got a lot
of of fights, learned how toplay a little bit against the
older guys.
And then when I came back, youknow I'm I'm expecting to play
30 minutes a game, say threeshifts.

(18:13):
Like what is this?
Like, dad, this, this is notfun.
I'm not having a good time atall.
How are you guys doing down incranbrook right now?
Oh, we're in first place,probably going to win the win
the league this year, chance ofgoing to the nationals.
Like, well, you know you guysneed a d-man like I.
Come back there and light it updown there.
No, no, just pay your dues.
You know, just bide your time,things are going to be okay.

(18:34):
This is all part of the process.
Trust it, trust it, trust it.
So you know, I think we all hadthose, those moments.
But then again, those thosemoments that we had on the bus
together, just talking to eachother, it was just like man,
let's just stick this thing outand see how it works out.
Obviously, at the end of theday, it pays out for you.
Now it's a little bit different.

(18:55):
Now we all want the, the quick,so the quick fix.
But that's kind of that what wewent through.
We still wanted it.
We, we wanted the quick fix.
We wanted to go in and play forKamloops and be playing 30
minutes a night and be theultimate, the best player on the
team.
It didn't happen like that andit was an understanding of that
that some guys, some guys Park,come in first round pick oh,

(19:16):
he's going to be something elseand he walks in and you're like
that kid, wait till he has toput some work in and see what it
really takes.
And ultimately, what is goingto happen when he's the first
star on Friday night and he onlygets two shifts on Saturday.

(19:36):
Let's see how he reacts to that.
Some kids never come back fromit, some players never come back
from it.
Those guys like yourself thatmake it through.
That's the.
That's the true test.
So it was.
It was very tough on on all ofus at the beginning.
We like and we had a bunch ofjason holland was a rookie,
struds was a rookie, I was arookie.
We're all trying to be in thelineup and the camels plays.

(19:57):
We're all defensemen, all inour draft year, all trying to
compete for that one position.
So talk about hunger and thenbeing a healthy scratch.
It was pretty intense,extremely intense culture there.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, and I love that you talk about what you just
talked about, because thetransition from that and
embracing that culture,accepting that culture, is hard
to do as a player.
It was hard to do in 1995, itwas hard to do in 1995 and it's
hard to do in 2025.
But now it seems like it's evenharder for the players to

(20:34):
really buy into that.
Now, what's your philosophy onthat?
Just in general, like, do youthink should a player be playing
somewhere else and playinghigher minutes, getting more
touches, or should they beplaying at the highest level
they can be and fighting theirway into that lineup?
Is there a broad brush that youcould paint with that?

Speaker 1 (20:56):
it's so situational.
I mean for my, for myexperience, it worked out
amazing.
For me.
I mean, I went back tocranbrook, but look at the
variables that are attached.
It was my hometown, so I'mliving at home.
I've got, you know, the thesupport of the city that wants
me to see me go forward.
You know I played there in thepast.

(21:17):
I got an opportunity to be anumber one guy, and also the
guys that got sent down fromkamloops that was back when the
rocky mountain junior hockeyleague had an affiliation
agreement they all came fromkamloops.
So the guys that got sent downfrom Kamloops that was back when
the Rocky Mountain JuniorHockey League had an affiliation
agreement they all came fromKamloops.
So the guys I had to beat wereright there.
They're sitting right in thesame room as me.
I know those are the topprospects.
They're the same age as me.
I got to be better than thoseguys.
So for me it was be better thanhim every night.

(21:37):
So I loved it.
I embraced, knew where the guyswere, I got.
It's tough.
When you're looking.
I wonder how so-and-so is doingin saskatchewan right now.
You're not even playing againstthe same guys.
There's no, it's now.
You're looking.
You're leaving that up to thescouts to to convince the
general managers.
Now it's up to you to go on theice.
Your competition's sittingright in front of you.
Go, be better than that guy.

(21:59):
So that's what I learned fromit and and, to be honest with
you, I kind of got lucky backthen because a couple of the
guys that came down from from uh, from cambridge to cranbrook
they didn't like it too much,they didn't like being in
cranbrook.
They pouted a little bit, toput it that way.
I mean, it's pretty typical tobe to be let down, so maybe
that's a better.

(22:19):
They were a little bit let downand didn't just jump right back
on the horse.
Well, I remember coming back, weplayed the creston valley
thunder that night and I lit itup.
I think I had a hat trick and acouple like so it was right
there like I'm gonna go, likeI'm gonna be down here, I'm
gonna be the best, I'm gonnascore goals, I'm gonna fight,
I'm gonna do everything theyasked me to do and then I'm
gonna go up there.
So next year they can't put meon the bench, which they

(22:39):
ultimately still do, but thatwas.
It was great for me to go back.
Now.
Those other guys they came backto camp next year.
I remember I remember 17 yearold who were the first two guys
I went after camp.
Those two defensemen they wereon the other team.
I was on red, they were ongreen.
I was going straight across thelight, drop my gloves, grab the
guy and just started poundingon him because that was my

(23:01):
competition.
Yeah, you know so that for meit worked.
It was better to go back, play,get tougher, learn, learn the
game versus sit in cam loops.
Maybe, you know, be a grocerystick.
You know, maybe I'm in thelineup three or four times a
month and then when I am, I'mjust a grocery stick sitting
there.
Now my confidence gets down.

(23:23):
Maybe it's now it's the coach'sfault, now it's, uh, maybe that
someone else is on the team'sfault that I'm not playing.
Um, maybe it's my grades.
I start making the excusesversus trying to find the
solutions and answers.
So for me, I was put in aperfect situation.
It worked for me.
It doesn't work for everybody.
It doesn't work for everybody,but for those players, in my

(23:44):
opinion, if you're one of thoseguys, that can ultimately, if
you're a cusp player and you'regoing to be like, say, a seven
and you can go down and be a oneor a two.
You go down and be that one andtwo and just dominate.
Treat it like you're playing atthat level Every time you go,

(24:11):
prepare like you're at thatlevel, eat like you're at that
level, recover like you're atthat level, focus and prepare.
You do that.
So when you get into thattraining camp next year, no
problem.
And that's how it was for me.
It kind of happened naturallyfor me with the people that I
was surrounded with Right.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
No, that's fantastic, and I like how you distinguish,
because it is like there isn't.
I mean, I asked you that,wondering what your answer would
be.
I don't think that there is oneway to handle it.
It definitely is, I think,personality dependent, you know.
I think it's organizationdependent too.
Right, like, how do they handletheir young guys?
Like, what is the developmentpath?
Do they have an actual plan forthem path?
Do they have an actual plan forthem?
Is this something that they doconsistently, you know, bringing

(24:45):
younger guys?
They have, they have adevelopment plan for them and
they always are playing a biggerportion next year.
I think there's a lot of thingsyou need to look at, cause, like
you said for yourself, as a 16year old, it was perfect to go
back, but as a 17 year old, itwasn't.
That was the time to stepforward and that was the time to
time to you know, to put, jumpin the deep end and make it
happen right and it worked outfor you.

(25:06):
Uh, I do believe that sometimeswe rush and maybe we'll take it
a step back to, maybe more likeyounger ages.
I know that you're coaching nowat a u13 or u15 level, uh, and
parents are seems like they'realways trying to catapult their
kid into that highest, highestlevel.
And sometimes when you'replaying as a young guy with the

(25:26):
older kids and you're not a topdog, I think, like at those
younger ages, I'm like I don'tknow if that's the right call.
Like I think if you can be inthat top half, you know, when
you do go up as a young guy,awesome, do it.
But why?
Why fight?
Is my opinion at that age right?

(25:48):
Like, grow the confidence, growthe touches, grow the swagger.
There's going to be lots ofyears in hockey where it's going
to be tough.
You know what I mean.
What's your thought on that?
Do you think that sometimeswe're chasing it a little too
early?

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, I mean with the birth of these awesome hockey
academies and you've got to givethem credit.
They do an amazing job.
I've coached at them.
They're fantastic.
We've played against them.
They just do an amazing job.
You see how the players aregetting together.
We talked about that teambonding.
You see that on a lot of thoseclubs now and I love the way it

(26:20):
looks.
For us down in Dallas area,something like that, we have a
lot of kids that are chasing itoutside the Metroplex trying to
get that triple a, that extraletter, because we only have the
one team here.
We have the Dallas triple a andit's all of Texas.
So a lot of people have thejust from social media, from
watching whatever they hearsomeone up in New York have the

(26:42):
opinion of hey, if you don'thave triple a by 14, you're
never going to play.
Well, I disagree with that.
So what I try to do is give ourguys the development, take them
to different areas, take themto some spots that they haven't
been seen before and give theman option or the opportunity to
be seen by new scouts.
So we just recently went toVancouver knowing full well that
we're a AA team going into aAAA.
Well, we have a couple of AAAplayers.

(27:04):
There's just well that we're adouble a team going into a
triple a.
Well, we have a couple oftriple a players.
They're just not enough spacesfor them but thankfully they do
stay home, they do stay back.
They stay back for us.
They give us an opportunity toplay at a really competitive
level, especially locally and atthe state level.
We go to tournaments.
We can be competitive attournaments.
What we'd like to see is theseguys, more of them, staying home
.
That would be ultimately thebest.
You don't have to chase that,that triple a.

(27:26):
Uh, we're going out and playingthe same addict academies that
people are leaving our hometownfor and we're, you know we're
competing against them.
If we, if you, would havestayed home, we probably would
have beat that team.
So you know, like those arethose, those are those attitudes
like that we have here is stayhome as long as you possibly can
.
If you have a good program andthen support those programs,

(27:46):
find out how you can help.
If there's a way to volunteer,the way to improve the program
like there's a lot sure, there'sa lot of people out there with
a lot of complaining stuff Ifyou have some solutions and a
way to help that program, then I, then I, then I think, as long
as they're there, thedevelopment is the number one
priority, then stick with it.
If it starts to become a bitmore of a, as long as we have 20

(28:09):
kids on the ice and we'repaying our coach this, we're
paying this guy this and we'regoing here, we're only going one
tournament a year, but hey,we've got a great marketing
scheme, we've got merch, we'vegot this and it becomes more of
a brand versus a hockeyorganization or development,
then I think you've got to maybethink twice about it.
But there's so many good onesout there, man, there's some

(28:29):
really good ones out there andsome new ones that are starting
up.
That in some new towns, thatCSSHL I mean you're up in the
middle of it.
I was in Coeur d'Alene there forthe one year.
I would go back there in asecond.
I absolutely love that league.
It is.
What they're doing for thosekids is amazing.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Awesome.
Yeah, I know it's a greatperspective there and I, I agree
with you.
I I'm personally stillconnected to community hockey,
you know, I think it's a goodthing.
I think it's good for thecities that you're in, you know,
I think it's good for the kidsand the connections.
I even it's good for therivalries, right, I remember
growing up and you know, beingfrom vernon and wanting to beat

(29:08):
kelowna and wanting to beatkamloops and, uh, you know, and
just being connected to thatwhole idea of of, you know,
being a hockey player from, frommy hometown.
I, I do like that.
I think it's become much moreregional in some ways.
It's good right, because youhave to have these zones and you
draw from other, from otherplaces.
But just the idea about, like,hopping around and chasing the

(29:29):
best team in some regards, whichmeans the most wins, I just
think that's not really theright way to go about it.
If you are just trying to, youknow, become a better hockey
player, like that, uh, thatalways isn't the isn the
quickest road.
So we got to be careful whatwe're wishing for sometimes.

(29:51):
Just going to take a short breakfrom the conversation with Brad
to say thank you to all thosewho reached out who are
interested in becoming anambassador or an affiliate for
the Up my Hockey brand.
Uh, it's an exciting time, uh,for me with the growth of up my
hockey and with the willingnessand desire and, frankly, the
incapability of just myself toreach everyone with the ideology

(30:16):
and philosophy of what up myhockey is, which is give players
the mindset skills required tobe the best versions of
themselves on and off the iceand you will have better hockey
players as a result.
Super exciting, as I am atcapacity and I need help in
getting this message out in thegeographic areas of North

(30:41):
America, of North America.
If you are a coach, if you aresomeone who has a network in an
area that has influence, thatwants to be a difference maker
when it comes to the developmentof athletes, and you think it
is the perfect time to getinvolved with mindset, you're

(31:01):
passionate about hockey, you'repassionate about people becoming
the best versions of themselvesand the best hockey player they
can be, then by all means sendme an email, jasonmyhockeycom,
and see if you are somebody thatshould join my team.
There are two ways to do it.
You can either be an ambassador, that is, somebody who would

(31:23):
understand the programming,someone who believes in growth
mindset, in the personalempowerment of individuals to be
their best, and you would bepromoting the up my hockey
programs in your geographic area.
That is one just being anambassador, talking about the
brand, providing introductionsand referrals.
That is a great way to getthese athletes to be the best

(31:47):
versions of themselves.
The other way is to be anaffiliate, to be a coaching
affiliate, to actually gettingto work with me and to be able
to coach the programs that Ihave developed to help the
players yourself in the area.
So there are two ways to do it.
One is obviously a biggerinvestment and a bigger
commitment.
One is investing.
Do it.
One is obviously a biggerinvestment and a bigger

(32:08):
commitment.
One is investing in yourself.
One is strictly investing inothers around you, but a
willingness to do that iswelcome.
I would love to hear from youOnce again, jason at
upmyhockeycom, and perhaps therewill be a great fit Again.
Check marks are a hockeynetwork passionate about the
game, wanting others to be thebest versions of themselves and

(32:31):
wanting to make a difference onthis great game of ours.
So if you have those qualitiesand if you have those
differentiators, by all meansI'd love to hear from you, and
let's get back to theconversation with Brad Lukowich.
And let's get back to theconversation with Brad Lukowich.

(32:52):
I'm going to switch it backjust to Kamloops a little bit.
You mentioned Donor and Iggyand obviously those are two huge
names that were there then,both Hall of Famers in their own
right, but, goodness gracious,darcy Tucker was around there
700 game NHL yourself.
You already mentioned Strudwick, jason Holland, nat Domicheli
was like one of the top pointguys in the entire league that

(33:13):
didn't have as robust of an NHLcareer for whatever reason, but
was an amazing junior like didyou like, if you were to go back
at that time, did you thinkthat that donor and iggy would
have been the players that theywere then?
Like over all the rest of that,you were surrounded by?

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I put bomb gartner in there too.
No one about bomber was so goodon the back end.
It's unfortunate that hisshoulders, you know, like they.
He had that bad year and man,he was something else.
All right, you can just go likehe just did.
You go through our whole thing.
I thought all of these guyswere going to do amazing things
Randy Patruk, incredible goalie,steve Passmore, even like

(33:52):
Brancher, you know.
Then you got Bomber Fergie,keith McCambridge.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Holly Shreds.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Aaron Keller, tucker, nash, dooling, huska it just
makes you laugh.
I mean Louis Dumont, I meanthere's so many guys that just
were so good.
And then so when, like I said,the 94 team, we knew we were

(34:21):
good, but the 95 team, we werejust like, oh boy, like this is
something else.
And then when we added players,we were like, but the 95 team,
we were just like, oh boy, likethis is something else.
And then we actually, then whenwe added players, we're like,
how do you, how do we do this?
And when they came in, becauseyou, you mentioned something
there was a we, we were, uh,ranked second.
Detroit was ranked first becausethey had, um, brian, berard and

(34:44):
Allison, so they had a reallygood team and I think Hodgson
was the goalie, so Ticker, yeah,they had Ticker in that.
So they had a good group andthat was kind of the team that
everyone had their eye on.
That everyone thought was goingto knock us off.
And then even in our leaguethey had you know, there's some

(35:05):
players like McCabe.
You know like they put all thatgroup together think it was in
brandon that year they put aheck of a group together to try
to with morrison and all thoseguys.
So you think about the actualteams that played in that
memorial cup and the playersthat played in that end, and the
95 team.
Like darcy tucker, you loveplaying against him, didn't you?

(35:26):
Yeah, she was unbelievable.
You know like.
And then come out of thepenalty box and fight the next
guy, trade tyson ash.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
The same thing, like we had guys that not only did
they have the over 100 pointsbut over 100 pins almost our
whole lineup was that way right,yeah, yeah, it was definitely a
definitely a crazy, crazy timefor you guys, and it's
interesting to look back and seehow many guys actually played
games like that.
And that's the thing, too, thatI think people well, maybe they

(35:54):
know, maybe they don't know,but major junior hockey is
obviously very, very good hockey, yeah.
Yet when you take the playersfrom the major junior like it's
not like just because you ledyour team in points, will you
play in the NHL.
I mean, that's kind of like theway people think of it.
It's not the case, right, likethere's a lot of other things
that have to happen.
But then for you to take thisone team, this one snapshot in

(36:16):
time, and to go down the listand to have multiple digits of
players that played NHL andactually had careers is like
crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
You mean shell and actually had careers, is like
crazy.
You mean, that really iscraziness.
Uh, I got a question.
I got a question for you.
What was it like playingagainst us?
Like what was going throughyour head?
Like you're like, oh my gosh,like there's this one team where
we we would probably be the topteam in the league because you
guys are there, you guys weregood.
Yeah, if it wasn't for theseguys, like, how was that coming
in every time?

Speaker 2 (36:44):
well, yeah, I mean, and then for me it was a little
different on a personal levelbecause camels was the closest
town to my hometown, right.
So I always had, I always had aton of people in your building,
uh, watching us and and you knowit was yeah, it was, that's a
great question, because it kindof changed, you know, I mean,
especially as my trajectory withthe chiefs changed too, like we
started to get a little bitbetter, uh, you know, and we

(37:06):
were the guys that knocked youout, like of the playoffs there
the last year, right.
So we kind of had, at leastpersonally, a little bit of the
last laugh, right.
But yeah, I mean, there werebattles.
You know there were alwaysbattles and that division was
crazy back then, right, likeTri-Cities with Lankow and Terry
Ryan, and like those teams weretough and Portland was good and

(37:27):
Seattle was good with Marloweand the players they had there.
So I mean that whole divisionwas hard and you guys were
obviously the cream of the cropfor a while and we definitely
got sick of that song, you know,I think a few seasons taking
care of it.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
No, no, no.
Victoria doesn't like that atall.
I don't.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
I think it's bad on the radio stations there um, you
know what, the one, but the oneI mean this is kind of funny
because you maybe remember it,maybe not, but like from coming
in there and I think probablyobviously losing more than we
would have won in in cam loop.
So over overall we were down sixnothing to you guys in in one

(38:09):
game of one season, in after thefirst period and Brian Maxwell
came in and, you know, ripped usa complete new one.
So it had to be actually myfirst or my second year, uh,
because he left after that andit was totally maxi and I
remember.
I remember, like us just beingessentially petrified and then
we ended up it was my draft yearactually.

(38:30):
Now I remember, because joecartereo was on the team,
because he actually scored theovertime winner, but we came
back and ended up winning seven,six and it was like the the
biggest comeback ever against,you know, your team at home and
and it was like a really bigbonding experience for us to be
able to do that against you guys.
So you do, you do remember thatthat moment yeah, yeah, there
was.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
We had like a, a tv show that they would do weekly
and I, I, I remember themshowing the goals and then they
showed the titanic.
So the titanic sinked rightafter that and then the chiefs
showed up.
Yeah, I totally remember that.
Yeah, that was that was thelast beatings I think we took

(39:13):
until you guys knocked us out inthe playoffs a couple years
later.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, yeah definitely some good times actually I have
a darcy tucker question for you, because as good as he was and
he was totally, I mean super andtenacious I don't remember him
being tough in junior, like Idon't remember him fighting or
like being intimidating to me.
I even remember like asking himto fight in Spokane one time
and he didn't want to, but thenhe went to the NHL and he became

(39:38):
like a killer.
Like did I miss something injunior?
Was he kind of a killer alreadyor did something happen to?
Something happened to him atthe, at the NHL level, where he
became sort of a new version ofhimself.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
No, he, I mean really he kind of threw pillows in
junior Like I, we'd fight andlike everyone did in junior in
in practice and stuff, yeah, andhe'd hit you a couple of times
and they wouldn't be that hard,probably threw as hard as I did.
I threw pillows too, and uh,you know, but he, what, what?
What was so crazy about him waslike he'd go after like the

(40:09):
toughest guy on the team, solike he'd go after, say, he'd go
after Weimer.
So he goes in Portland, he goesafter Weimer.
Weimer would just turn around,knocks him down, goes out five
for five and they come, Weimerwould come on the ice.
Well, tux would come out of thepenalty box with his gloves off

(40:29):
like, hey, weimer, let's dothis again.
Come on, I'm like hey, like you.
Okay, it didn't work out sogood five minutes ago, bro.
Yeah, we were turning aroundlike, okay, he just bang and hit
him again and it going, andtucks would be chirping him in
the box like just, I'm gonna getyou, I'm gonna kill.
So there was just something,something missing there.
It wasn't that he was tough, hewas nuts.
He was literally nuts, he, orelse he'd come in Junior.
It wasn't that he was tough, hewas nuts, he was literally nuts
.
Or else he'd come in in thecenter of the ice and then he'd

(40:51):
turn and he'd go go get it.
And he'd turn and he'd take thepuck and he had that jaw thing.
He'd go like this jaw and he'ddump it in your corner and he'd
slow down and go go get it.
He'd run you, he'd run you.
But.
But, like you said, and all of asudden, junior, we were playing
in Toronto, I think I hitSundin pretty good.
I probably shouldn't have hithim as hard as I did in the
middle of the ice.
And here he comes and I didn'tknow it was him, but he hit me

(41:14):
about five times before I evengot my gloves off.
I was like damn, and he hit mepretty good.
I was like bam Tux, you got alittle spunk behind those things
now, I think for sure like abunch of tough dudes too, like
some bonafide tough guys thatdid really good where you're
like there's no way Mick Magoostill kicked him, kicked his ass
pretty good.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
But yeah, so okay, so he always had that.
He definitely had that edge,like that competitive area, I
mean that squirreliness to him,but I think he obviously, I mean
I think he was probably 150pounds in junior, like he wasn't
a big guy, yeah, and then hegot bigger, he definitely got
stronger.
So that was probably part of ittoo, of his evolution anyways.
Um, so you mentioned, like whatyou know, learning, learning

(41:56):
how to win and learning what ittakes to be a team, and then,
and then, like your first, yourfirst couple years pro, you're
in michigan you mentioned beingthere with hitch and then then
you're in d Dallas and, lo andbehold, you get to play eight
games in the Stanley Cup finalsthat year and win the freaking
cup.
Like did what was theperspective like as a young guy,
being a pro and being a part ofbeing part of that so early on

(42:19):
in your career?

Speaker 1 (42:20):
that whole one is like and it kind of works out
kind of strange like I didn'tget my name on the cup there,
but it's almost like it didn'tget my name on the cup there but
it's almost like it doesn'twasn't really I don't want to
say deserved at the time,because I think once you go into
the stanley cup finals youdeserve to have it on there.
But it was like being in thefront row like we have reality
tv right now like if I was theguy that could have held a

(42:43):
camera the whole time and justkind of gone around the room and
been in the room and kind ofbeen a fly on the wall.
That's how it felt like to hearthe conversations that were had
the.
The way that these that theythey respected one another as
teammates, the respect that theyhad for the coaching staff.
The way that the management hadsuch respect for the entire

(43:04):
hockey department just to leavethem alone, let them do their
thing.
The way that the management hadsuch respect for the entire
hockey department, just to leavethem alone, let them do their
thing.
They got this.
They're kind of a special breedof group here.
We'll keep doing the stuff tokind of keep growing hockey in
South Texas and do that thing onthe outside.
We'll get them out in thecommunity when we can, but we're

(43:24):
going to leave these guys alone.
We're not going to tell Hitchwhat to do do we're not gonna
tell those guys what to do, toomuch, let's, let's, let's leave
them alone and that the group.
Just we kind of moved aroundand this kind of wolf pack and
just kind of did a thing.
Every city we were in, we werealways together and I'd never it
being in cameloops like we wereclose, but I'd never seen
anything like this before.
And you know, you finally havea couple moments with the guys

(43:48):
like Craig Ludwig and you'relike so, like what's up with
this?
He's like this is all MontrealCanadians, this is all Bob.
You know, this is that's how itwas in Montreal.
Read the old stories aboutMontreal.
They lived together, they, theystayed together, they all.
There's five apartments.
They all lived right by eachother when they went all those
cups way back in the day.
And then when they moved out ofapartments, they moved into the

(44:08):
houses and so they were justvery we and I was on the outside
of it.
I was living in a hotel they'dcome pick me up at the hotel
every day, like just you're partof this, you're, we're not
going to leave you out here, andthey'd pick me up, they'd take
me home and I was just the newkid on the block and and so to
be part of that, it felt like Iwas a part of it the whole way
through.

(44:28):
I got my day with it.
But just to see how that groupthe Kirk Mullers, the Ludwigs,
all the Guy Carboneau, holly Mo,like how that group, just the
puzzle, it's like that's the wayI look at it as a puzzle that
no other pieces of any otherpuzzle fit on that in that group

(44:50):
, it's right, the picture isclear.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
When it's that group, you take one piece out and it's
just, the whole thing goes to amess yeah, the, uh, it's
interesting you mention, youknow, the, the montreal
canadians, because, like twoepisodes ago or three, I had on
brian screwedland, who was mycaptain in florida, right, my
first pro, and then he came overthere with um, with who, who

(45:13):
was in that trade.
Now, uh, oh my gosh, why am Idrawing a blank?
It should be right in front ofme anyways.
Uh, multiple stanley cup winner, like a glue guy, super
respected throughout the league,came over from montreal with
him and like that was kind oflike the final pieces of the
puzzle that that they sort ofadded, and screwy was, you know,

(45:33):
he talked about what he thoughthe brought to that team and it
was more like a dressing roomkind of levity sort of scenario.
And and obviously his work,ethic and character oh, mike
Keane, that's who I'm thinkingof.
So, mike Keane, and and andscrew, and, uh, screwy, come
over and and then there's alsoGilchrist, I think, was on that
team, right, like anotherMontreal guy.
And so you had these Montrealguys that were there and and

(45:53):
what a, what a group you know,like, what a, what a talented
group and and to have that seatat that, at that table, and
really to be a part of it, boy,that must've stuck with you for
the rest of your career evenlike how to treat a younger guy

(46:15):
coming in.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well, perfect name to say is screwy, so screwy
actually, saskatoon blades.
I used to go to the saskatoon xblades hockey school when I was
just a little gaffer and, uh, Iremember screwy doing this
backhand shot where he hit a,hit the water bottle from the
other side of the ice and I waslike, wow, this is an NHL.
So I wound up playing with them.
Well, they trade for him.
I hadn't met him because therewas no training camp or anything

(46:36):
.
I haven't seen him since that.
But I get on the ice and it'slike one of the first practices.
I'm up and I was like again,I'm a young cocky kid leading
the team down in kalamazoo, oneof those guys that came up very
happy to be there.
Um, and I'm on the ice andmaybe the night before I had
maybe taken it for granted alittle bit, I don't even
remember, but I remember.
I remember the lesson I got thenext day was being on the ice

(46:59):
and we were doing likeone-on-ones in front of the net
and screwy beat the living crapout of me.
He cross-checked me, two-handedme on the back of the leg,
pushed me down like, and I gotup and I kind of laughed a
little bit like chuckled, likethat's kind of yeah, you're
beating me, but and hecross-checked me again, he said
start fighting back.
And he dropped his gloves andhe's like gonna pound on me.
I was like whoa, and the restof the guys were like hey,

(47:22):
that's how we need to startplaying.
This is over over, the joke isover.
You got to start going to workand I was like oh wow.
So he picked up his gloves, hegoes you ready.
And I said yeah, and from thatday on I have never taken a
shift off Ever since that.
Like he, that was one of thoseones I would think if I would
have went the other way, I don'tthink I would have, I would way

(47:44):
, I don't think I would have.
I would have been go pack yourbags and go back to kalamazoo.
I think that was a crossing ofthe guard for me for that one.
So I have a lot to screw it andscrewy always for the rest of
my career like that that when weplayed together, always check
in on me, make you make sure Iwas always working hard.
So guys like that, you cantotally tell what they when you
say what did they bring?
They brought that.
They brought that you.
Every single mike keen wouldskate by you in practice in any

(48:07):
time, and he'd try to knock yourstick out of your hands.
Just skate by and knock yourhand, just so you're on.
You're aware on ice awarenessof where is he at.
You'd see him coming.
You know you're squeezing yourstick a little tighter with what
with keener's around and hewould do it up.
So he's always keeping youfocused, always, and walking.
He'd do it while you're hitchis sitting there talking to you,
telling you something like this.
All of a sudden you get upright behind you, knock your

(48:28):
stick out, you can get you andyou turn around and give you a
look.
You're like like it was, it wason and you never, ever could
take a shift off.
And you but we learned that inpractice make sure you're
focused, make sure you're readyto go what a freaking lesson.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
I love that story, that's so.
I love him screw.
He said in his interview and Imean I'm going to paraphrase him
, but essentially he said theone thing that he learned early,
whether it was in junior or pro.
Uh, he said that his, his hardhat always went on before his
skates and that, and that stuckwith him for forever.
You know, and and that was,that was the one thing that I

(49:02):
really remembered about him even.
You know, in my brief time withhim in florida, there was that,
yeah, he wasn't the mosttalented guy, um, which is
interesting too, because youlook back in his stats in
saskatoon or whatever.
I mean, this guy was, you know,a point producer, but he
freaking showed up like if theboys went out the night before,
he'd be the first one there,he'd work his bag off.
You know, like he was alwaysthe guy that was working hard

(49:24):
and and uh, and really taughteveryone around him how to be a
pro right, like how to, how toget it done, and I love when he
challenged you like that, likethat's, that's an old school way
of doing it.
I don't know how much thathappens now.
Do you think that happens todayin in practice in an nhl rank I
think the old guys are aroundto do it.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
I don't think they do it in as much much in the
physical sense.
I think there's more of the heyman like uh well, after
practice, why don't the two ofus go out and play some xbox
somewhere in a in a xbox cafe orsomething, grab a latte or
something like that, where backthen it was just all right hitch

(50:05):
would bring somebody in teachhim a lesson.
I don't care how you do it, thekid's not getting it, he's not.
It's not getting through.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
So go teach him a lesson right, and they did, and
you learned it like you said itcould have gone either way for
you there too, and I like, Ieven like how you remember, like
the, like the laughy, like oh,this is sort of funny, and then
it, then it really hit home whenit wasn't, like he wasn't meant
to be funny, like this is forreal.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
This is this is funny until I saw his eyes.
Yeah, he's like oh, this ishe's.
He's pissed, like this is, andhe's, and he's telling me and
he's teaching a lesson right nowand like that, everything else
went away.
It was just me and him.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
It was like oh, okay, yeah, you brought up fighting
twice now and I don't want tomake it to be like, uh, you know
, back in the dinosaur age, butlike you talked about.
You talked about training campwhere you went across the ice
and you wanted to show everyoneon both sides of the team and
the goes watching in the crowd,that you were ready to take this
guy's spot, that you wanted itmore than him.

(51:04):
Uh, and the scenario in thepractice, in nhl practice, where
you know screwy, essentially,you know baptizes you into nhl
pro hockey, how you have to be.
There's multiple junior campsnow where it's actually not even
allowed right, like you're.
They've, they've told kids thatthey'll be kicked out of camp
if they fight.

(51:25):
I, I personally have an issuewith that.
Like I don't understand why.
Why that I mean we don't haveto celebrate the fighting, but
like there should be a way toseparate yourself and your want
and your desire, in that sensethat you're willing to do
something that maybe other guysaren't willing to do.
Why do you think that's beingtaken away?

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Oh man, I don't know.
I really don't.
It's always been part of thegame.
I mean the most celebratedsport.
How many people turned offNetflix the other night when
Mike Tyson was?
It's a spectacle, it's part ofthe game, it's fun.
We sign up, we know what we'redoing.
Now is there those ones wherethe finesse player shouldn't be

(52:07):
fighting against the boogeyman?
Of course not Like those are.
Those are scary for everybody.
The boogeyman, those guys don'twant to be going after those
little guys either.
So there is a respect out there.
But when it comes to trainingcamps, you know, there there is
guys that play a certain way.
It's it's like if it's a partof your, it's a part of your

(52:29):
tool book.
So for me, that was one of mytools back then is my story is,
for my dad was try to find a wayto get onto the score sheet one
way or the other.
So on the back of my stick Ieven have it on the one I coach
now so I can show kids I neededto get one goal, one assist.
So that's two points.
I needed to be plus one.

(52:49):
I need to have two minutes orfive minutes.
I had to, whatever way.
Those are all the spots.
Those are all the spots thatyou can get on there.
So you've got to go find a wayto get involved.
If you're not involved, you'renot part of the game.
So if you're a finesse guy andthe scout's up in the stands,
then why would you go out thereand run around and get in a

(53:11):
fight?
That's just stupid.
But if you're a checker guylike myself, main three things
move the puck, make a good firstpass, make sure you're blocking
shots, make sure you're beinghit or getting a hit.
That's it.
There's my whole game.
Well, how am I going to go outthere and and if and play my

(53:32):
game and be that physical forcewith the repercussion in the
back mind if a guy turns aroundand punches me that I can't
offend myself.
So you're going to play alittle lighter, so you play a
little bit back, you open upyour gap.
Personally, I think that you'rekind of hurting the kids
opportunity to play his full,full game.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah yeah, I mean, especially when you're talking
about roles.
Now, real, specifically, I'm, Iwasn't I'm.
My pain point is even from theidea of let's effing compete,
you know, like who's got thefire.
Like I would never claim to bea tough guy anywhere, but I did
fight and I would, you know, andthere were scenarios where that

(54:12):
served me really well assomebody trying to take
advantage of me, trying to makea team, trying to let somebody
know that I was willing to domore than this other guy who
wanted to do it right.
Like I thought that that was adifferentiator and I was proud
of that being a differentiator,right and I think that like I
don't know, like again, whetherit's a part of our game, like in

(54:32):
the nhl, and you're allowed todo it.
I do think that's something, Ithink there's a fan piece of
that, but I just think, like theguts and the lack of a better
word balls of the player, like Iwant to know that and I think
if I'm picking a team, I wouldwant to see the guys that are
willing to show me in somecapacity that they are willing
to be a Camelot's Blazer or theyare willing to be a Tampa Bay

(54:53):
Lightning, you know, and anyways, in camp of bay lightning, you
know, and uh, anyways, I went, Iwent to a few camps this year
and stuck my head in.
I was just, I was a bitdisappointed, to be honest, just
with it like, just with likethat level of compete and I
think it was almost like it'snot encouraged at all and and
it's almost like distant.
You know it's not encouraged.
So I don't know, I, I, I wantedto, I wanted to dive into that

(55:14):
with you and see what you, whatyou think.
How do you approach it at theU15 level when it comes to?
You know even the physicalityof the game now, where they're
introduced to hitting.
How do you handle that?

Speaker 1 (55:24):
I try to promote them to be as physical as possible
within the rules.
You know, even like a sayingthat Hazer stuck with us is is
be tough between the whistles.
You know, don't be tough afterthe whistles, all that pushing
and shoving.
We don't be tough after thewhistles, all that pushing and
shoving.
We don't need that stuff.
That's what slows down the game, that's what gives us a bad
name.
Play tough between the whistles.
If you can play tough within therules which is hard checking

(55:45):
hockey stick on puck, if youfollow through with the check,
make sure that the guy's not ina vulnerable spot, then that's
good, clean hockey.
It doesn't, it doesn't penalizeus.
It still intimidates themknowing that the man this team
can play physical, we're goingto get hit and we're not going
to wind up on the power play.
That's a pretty, that's apretty tough team to play
against.
So and and punching guys in thehead, nobody cares about that.

(56:07):
All you're doing is giving themthe advantage.
So we we don't have any of thatretaliation stuff with our
squads.
It's actually been really goodfor our group here the last
couple of years and then kind ofjust cap it off kind of
jokingly, like if you guysreally want to do something.
It's kind of fun.
The thing my my old man wouldtell me is take his number, guy
smashes.
You just kind of take a look athim and be like see it.

(56:31):
See that, uh tack, uh, camp thissummer, yeah like oh, and then
when he comes to the, the u15camp at the end of the summer
and he sees you looking across,give him this one like coming
for you, I'm gonna get you.
Those refs aren't kicking youout of games in those boys, so
they all go.
They get a little chuckle.
So I mean then just, or you'llsee them in a junior camp down

(56:54):
the road, pro whatever, butright now getting back at
someone, everybody knows you'regoing to try to get back at them
, so just park it, save it foranother day yeah, yeah, that's
great.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Maybe that's a good segue into even some of the
stuff we've been havingdiscussions about offline and
the.
You know the mindset of thegame and and I think that it's
become I think it's become morerelevant in recent years because
of some of the stuff that we'vealready talked about, like the
attrition of being a player andand how, how, like the coming of
age and, and there's a broaderbandwidth of players that are

(57:26):
playing the game now, I thinkfrom a personality standpoint.
So there is, there is morepeople at the party right From
different backgrounds, differentwhatever, right, like there's
just more people there which Ithink tends to being I don't
know if that's a good connection, but there's more going on that
kids can't handle.
It seems like right now, youknow they don't have the tools

(57:47):
to do it you talking aboutlooking somebody in the eye and
like letting them know thatyou're going to get them, like
that's pretty rare to be seenthese days and that would happen
all the time.
Back in the day, that would be aquestion at the dinner table.
So what do you see in today'splayer?
Obviously, I mean I wouldassume you agree that you know
the skill.
The skill is high, the speed ishigh.
These players are better attheir age than they were, than

(58:10):
we were at our age.
What do you see differentlyfrom that aspect of a mental
game?

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Yeah, I got to agree with all that.
I think the amount of playersthat are out there that can play
at a high skill level now isincredible.
What you don't see as much isthem playing together as a group
.
There's a lot of individualplay, a lot of onus on the one
guy, the top player, but that'show it is at the top level.
So you know we've got who's thebest player, but that's how it

(58:38):
is at the top level.
So you know we've got who's thebest player.
Toronto maple leafs they'regonna, they're gonna spit a name
out you over here.
So you got your top four guys.
A lot of guys are just reallyfocusing on being in the top
four versus trying to focus onback in our day, like I had no
problem, focusing on being arole player guy, a guy that hit
like to fight, like to like toblock shots, like to make passes
, like to be a skill like, liketo set up the skill guy and be

(59:00):
there for them.
They don't really have that.
Now it's I want to score every,every shift.
I'm on the ice, I don't want toplay defense, uh, so my
preparation is that way, andthen when we put them into a
challenging role of somethingthat they're not generally used
to.
It becomes, uh, quite chaotic.
Actually, it's a their.
Their whole game is off, theirprep is off their, their, their

(59:23):
mindset was like why am Iplaying with this guy?
I should be playing with theseguys because I I mean I could
score goals.
But I know you can score goals.
I'm trying to teach you how toplay defense, because you
imagine if you're a two-wayplayer versus just this one
trick pony.
So we're trying to do those.
But they get these mindsets ofsocial media.
I want to be like this.
This is who I am.
I think I'm like this and Ineed to do it this way.

(59:45):
Well, everybody wants to bethat guy.
I mean I wanted to be bobby ortoo, but it's just.
You know, real realistically,these are my attributes.
These are the best things forme.
I'm going to focus on thosethree things and become really
good at those.
And if we can do those excellent, then we grow from that
position and start to like buildthat nice base.

(01:00:08):
Then we grow, build that, thatbase becomes stronger.
Then we grow from there and youjust still, and then, by the
end of it, you've got thisfoundation.
It's not a base anymore.
You've got a foundation andonce that foundation is built,
then you can play any role.
A coach can come up and tellyou I need you to do this, I
need you to do this.
That puts you in any role thatyou want.
It doesn't matter who you'replaying with, you're just

(01:00:29):
robotic.
I need you to run the left ofplayer, you just go out and you
do it.
There's no extra thoughts.
It just becomes robotic when,right now, it's like the
opposite.
Everything's like well, I gotthis going on.
I didn't eat right.
Who is in the dressing roomfirst and how come I'm not

(01:00:50):
wearing a letter?
Why is he wearing a letter?
There's so many distractions.
It's just, it's very, very.
I kind of envy them becausethey're growing up in a time
where they have all these toolsbut there's so much information.
How do you pick the right stuff?
So on that side, you kind ofgive them the man.
I feel sorry for you guys too.

(01:01:11):
So for us, I'm trying to keepstreamlined, just listen to one
voice, try to stick on this path.
Let's just try to stick andplay this certain way and focus
on our team, focus on ourselves.
Whoever we play is whoever weplay I love.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Uh, it was a note that I wrote all down already.
I said your value as a player.
Uh, also has value for the teamand you touched on it again,
like the, the three things, andwhy I I like that so much is
because a group that I work withevery two weeks called my inner
circle.
It's a, it's a graduate groupthat's taken my program like.
One of the things that we'vereally focused on in the first

(01:01:49):
half is, for lack of betterwords, player identity, and lots
of times people will put likeplayer identity and they'll
think that there's like sometype of a ceiling when it comes
to a player identity, and Idon't think of that way at all.
I think of it, as you alreadysaid, as like this foundation
and if you can be really clearon your foundation as a player
and what I mean by a foundationis exactly what you said is how

(01:02:11):
do you provide value?
Like what are the things thatyou do better than most other
guys, right?
Like why are you on that teamin the first place?
And most players don't?
They can't answer that questionor if they do answer it, they
answer it incorrectly and so,like I think it's so wild when
you can get clear on what thatis.
And I impact the game you saidby, for simple first pass,

(01:02:34):
battling in front of the net,getting shots through from the
point.
Let's say those are your threethings.
If you do that consistently,every game, you have provided
value to yourself and to thegroup.
I can recognize what you are asa defenseman, as an evaluator,
as a coach.
The trust is built.
And now from there, yes, you canexpand from that base.
But if you can't check thosethree check marks at the end of
the game, you've done adisservice to yourself and to

(01:02:56):
the team.
Clarity helps a lot of timesand, like when I use the word
mindset, like to me, playeridentity is a mindset.
You need to understand it soyou can go out there and do it.
And I love that you're talkinglike that, because I'm sure
you're helping your playersunderstand how they provide
value and that it's not adisservice to think that getting
the puck out is a small thingor it's because I'm not told to

(01:03:19):
score the goal.
No one's saying don't score thegoal, we're just telling you to
take pride in getting it outright.
Like can you speak to thatmaybe a little bit more, like
how we can expand from thesebases yeah, you know, actually
that's a good point, even formyself.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
You're triggering some things as, yeah, you do
have to break it down to thosesmall little goals.
You know, we all we call thegoal that's when the light goes
on at the end.
But really there's small goalsas you break it down.
When your face off, just winyour face off.
Well, if you're not the guytaking the face off, you got to
win your battle on the wall toto into support or into your
first.
Your step, first step intoposition.

(01:03:55):
You know then what then?
You're, you're, you're.
Did we win it?
Did we lose that battle?
Where's our reaction time tothat?
So, where we're, we're losingour, our step on a lot is is the
inability to just understandour role in the moment.
Where we're, we're going like,what am I going to do when I

(01:04:17):
shoot the puck down there?
Well, how are you going to?
There's all this, before we getto that shot that we have to do
before that, those small winthe battle.
So, if you're the centerman,win that faceoff, get low and
slow in the middle, receive thatpuck in the middle, move it
quick to the outside, drive thenet.
Don't go all the way down theice.
Now he gets to you in the slot.

(01:04:40):
Grab, receive that putt, put iton net.
And actually put it in the net,don't bury it in his chest.
There's so many differentvariables that you had to
control in that little shortamount of time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
To be you have to be prepared for yeah, I know I love
that the uh, yeah and even likethe goal scores.
Like the guys in my group thatwould consider themselves
offensive players which which isgreat, let's say traditionally
at the start of the season orthroughout their career, they've
been like, if I didn't score, Ihave now been, I've had a bad
game, right, or I haven't beenproductive and I'm not confident

(01:05:11):
now because I haven't scored,like when that's the goal, we
get in trouble.
But if that player let's saythat player x is a, is a bigger
body, plays heavy and he hasn'tbeen to the front of the net in
three games, and I'm like, well,isn't that where you score most
of your goals?
Like, shouldn't your?
Your intrinsic value to theteam is that you're bigger than
other guys and it's a hard areato go to, so why not go to the

(01:05:33):
front of the net?
And so if you go to the frontof the net more often, I bet you
your goals are going to come.
Or you know why are you givingthe puck up on the half wall
when you should be having itbelow the goal line, like that's
where you get create all youroffense.
From how many times have youtouched the puck below the goal
line.
Oh, I haven't touched it at all.
Well, there you go, right.
So now you're not using yourplayer identity properly, right,
and you're wondering why you'renot getting it done.

(01:05:53):
So sometimes we work backwardsfrom the performance aspects
that we want.
Understand, you know how weprovide value in a game and,
generally speaking, theproduction in this case would
come so like.
I love that, and sometimes it'slike a massive light bulb for
players right to be like oh,okay, yeah, and that's a simple
thing to understand too.

(01:06:18):
Going to take another shortbreak from the conversation with
brad lukowicz to remind youthat upmyhockeycom is your place
for mindset development.
Whether that be a team orwhether that be an individual,
or whether that be an academy oran association as a whole,
there is mindset programming,mental fitness programming,

(01:06:40):
available to you.
I have a rotating guidedmission that is on throughout
the hockey season, meaning youcan join other players from
across North America on a guidedmission where you get to have
coaching calls with me as agroup while you take the
curriculum online, the lessonsonline, or you can have your

(01:07:02):
whole team registered.
It is a great way to grow aculture and to finish the second
half strong.
I love working with entireteams, and if you are an
association member, networker ordecision maker and you have not
brought mental fitness trainingor programming to your uh, to

(01:07:22):
your city, by all means let'shave a conversation.
I provide programs, uh for yourassociation that the players can
grow.
Uh, they can grow their mentalfitness as they grow with you.
So as they grow through the ageranks, there will be bolt-on
mental fitness programmingavailable to them.
The game has become much moreholistic in its development

(01:07:43):
approach and if you are somebodythat is not providing mindset
programming for your players,you are missing out, and this
could also be a reason whyplayers and families may stay
with you if you can provide somegood mental fitness training to
the program.
So if that's something thatsounds like a good idea to you,
by all means.
Lots of reasons to reach out.

(01:08:03):
It's either at upmyhockeycom oran email to Jason at
upmyhockeycom.
Both places you will find theinformation you need, and I
would love to have thediscussion on how to make your
player, your team or your areaarea better.
So now let's get back to theconversation with brad lukowich

(01:08:26):
and I got one for some, somefeedback for you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
So we have our f3 guy is a common theme for him.
I like to be you, you're andyou're that guy.
You're, you're that forward,you'd like to stand on that f3
you.
You had that really nice shotand you did a really good job of
being patient up in that areaas a defenseman.
When I would see you up there,it makes makes me very nervous.
But there are shifts that I'dbe standing in front of the net
looking up at you.

(01:08:51):
You wouldn't receive that puttfor a few shifts, you know.
So maybe I float into thecorner that one time.
Now you do get it and you score.
Where I'm getting, um, somefeedback not only from my kids
but some from some of theparents looking down at the ice
going, hey, you know, hisbuddy's working on his butt off
in the corner, and then he turnsaround and he's not getting it
to him and all I can see is mykid standing in the slot.

(01:09:13):
I'm like, yeah, well, he'sdoing his job, though that's the
thing he's actually doing, hisjob.
Well, it sure doesn't look likeit.
You know, maybe he should bedown in the corner helping him
out.
And I'm like well, do you seehow we're kind of abandoning our
process, we're abandoning ourjob because we're not getting
immediate success, we're notsticking with the process and
we're not actually letting thatguy in the corner.
You know what?
He has a job to do.

(01:09:34):
His job is to get that puck andget it to him.
So if all of a sudden we startskipping that and he does get
the puck and and our guystanding right beside him, now
we don't have our guy up top, sowe're kind of the times we do
win it there's no one availableright.
The time that he's availablewe're not getting the puck.
So sometimes, like like in aperfect world, everything's

(01:09:54):
right goes in the corner, turnsup, there's that3.
We pass to him, the guy roofsit, goes bar down, everybody's
happy.
But in the real world, ninetimes out of ten I got my f3
standing up there.
How do I get the mindset of theplayer to be patient up in that
area, to just relax and relyand trust his teammates that
this is part of it?
I have to stay here.

(01:10:15):
I have to do my stuff, play myrole on the ice, shift to shift,
not only season to season andday to day.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
I love that, and probably abetter understanding by all
three players on the ice and whythey're a group together and
put on a line together in thefirst place would probably help
them understand, right that that, that ability to do that I mean
.
Another thing just came to mindas you were saying that, like
one of the one of my clients,last year, I was watching them,
watching them practice at thejunior level and they were
working on, you know, like onetimers again and again, again

(01:10:44):
for off the flank, right.
I mean it sounds like a normalthing and a good thing to work
on after practice.
I've never seen him score a onetimer in my life off the flank
Right, like I just never have,and I don't think I might have
seen him once get a one-timeroff the flank in a game.
So we had a conversation after.
I'm like, where do you score?
Well, I score on deflectionsand usually on rebounds and

(01:11:05):
tight or net drives.
I'm like, yeah, so don't youthink that that's probably where
you should be practicing?
That should be the area thatyou own.
Every team maybe has someOvechkins.
I mean ovechkin, every teamwishes they had an ovechkin, but
something that would score onthe power play in that spot,
right, but like that, thatperson's spot, that's where they
get comfortable, that's wherethey're going to, where they're

(01:11:26):
going to gravitate to more oftenin a game.
Some players need to go to thefront of the net to score a
povelsky, for instance, right,that's where he scores, right,
like so he's understanding thatis is right and owning an area
is good.
Can Pavelski score from thehigh slot?
Of course he can, but itdoesn't mean he can't, it just
means that he understands wherehe needs to go to be successful.
And I think when players dounderstand that, even as young

(01:11:49):
athletes, boy, being able towatch a player and knowing what
they do, when you think about asa coach aspect, or if I'm a WHL
scout or an OHL scout, likeisn't that a great attribute
where when I show up on aweekend, whether it's in January
or in March, I see the playerplay the same way, I know what

(01:12:10):
box he's going to fill in thatpuzzle piece you're talking
about Like pretty big advantagefor athletes, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
It really is.
It really is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
that's what we want as a coach, as we're trying to
build that picture yeah, 100,and you're building your own
resume on that and everybodywants to build their resume off,
like what these goals andassists stay at the end of the
day, but everyone needs a bradlukowicz, right?
I hope so.
Yeah, 100, and the proof is inthe pudding, right?
You know what I mean.
Like, you need somebody that'sgoing to do that and that's a

(01:12:38):
very, very valuable thing.
And I think, as coaches at least, I see that as the younger
levels that some parents willthink, well, you're putting a
ceiling on my kid.
No, there's not a ceiling here.
Like you can, you can becomeanything and you can grow from
anything.
But if you don't understandwhat it is that you are, you're
having a hard time like on, isthat you are, you're having a

(01:12:59):
hard time like on on your owndevelopment curve and I think
coaches I mean I think youprobably may, maybe I shouldn't
assume, but that can sometimesbe a challenge, right, like what
a player wants to be, or thinkthey is, compared to, maybe
where they are and and havingthe process and the mindset
required to to grow through thatyeah, and I'm in that 12 to 14
year old window where you've gotcertain kids one month ago were

(01:13:19):
5'6", now he's 5'9".

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
These guys are just growing up.
They're shooting up and somearen't.
So even the players they'replaying against that they could
get a step on are taking twostrides and are lifting one
stick.
It happened to me.
I didn't understand that when Iwas I had to have that talking
to because I was a late bloomer.
The guys I would dominate atthe 12?
U level all of a sudden at 14were catching me, knocking me

(01:13:44):
over with one hand and I'm likewhat is?
I'm just awful, I'm terriblethat self-confidence is gone.
No, no, this is just a growththing.
Focus on your game.
If you focus on your game andthen you grow, you're going to
be unstoppable.
So that's the focus I'm tryingto get with a lot of these guys
right now.
We have a couple smallerstatured guys that are battling
the puck a little bit right nowfocus on your game.

(01:14:06):
Don't focus on anything else,but try to work on your game.
Get better, get faster bymoving the puck quicker.
Work harder, because your legsare a little bit shorter, so you
got to take two more stridesthan the other guy work into
place, be prepared when you getthere and execute, and then when
you grow, this game is going tobecome very easy for you.
But when it becomes easier foryou, then you got up your game

(01:14:28):
again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Yeah, oh, what great stuff there.
I love that you touched on that.
The small player, adolescence,you know, not being through
puberty yet like it can be agame changer.
Well, it is a game changer, Imean for a vast majority,
especially the late birthdaysthat I find like that's where
they get, they get picked over.
I'm gonna give you a small stat.
So I geeked out on the draft forlike two years whl draft, you

(01:14:52):
would think I mean theoretically.
Theoretically, in a birth yearthere should be equal
representation from thequadrants right From, like,
january through March, themiddle bird and then the end.
But we all know that that's notthe case, right?
And so when I actually lookedat the numbers both years in a
row was almost exactly the samethat I crunched the numbers on

(01:15:12):
the like, the second and thirdquadrants of the year had what
you would think they're supposedto have, like the 25%
representation from players.
But on the first and like fromthe front and back ends of the
quarters of the year, thebackend lost a lion's share of
players.
So they only had 10%.
10% of the draft goes to thelast three months of the year

(01:15:33):
and that all goes to thebeginning three months.
So what's that?
25 doing my math like 40, soit's 40.
In the first three months, 10of the draft happens from the
boys born in uh, october,november, december what does
that right?

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
what does?

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
that they didn't grow right, like that's the only
thing.
There's no way there's not astalented players in that group,
it's just that they're not asbig.
So how do we stay relevant?
And, uh, and to your point,like you just said a lot of
things that were awesome there,like if you can stick around
right wherever it is that you'resticking around right, you can
make double A.
Or if you're lucky enough toplay triple A, or if you can

(01:16:09):
play prep as a late birthday, alate developer, you are going to
be forced to learn the gamebetter than those guys who
develop earlier.
That's a massive advantageright, moving pucks, being more
aware, being able to have betterreads, scanning now you have to
get better at.
You're going to be forced towork out in the gym and try and
get quicker.

(01:16:30):
I mean all these things.
But, like I, if you can havethat mindset as a younger any
younger players out therelistening right now, like the
things I just said, like takeimmense amounts of pride in that
and just recognize that youwill grow at some point and
you're going to have all thesedistinct advantages over the
guys that right now might bepassing you because they're
stronger, bigger, because theyhave hair on their legs Right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Pretty much really.
Yeah, you're right, I mean itit's just.
It's just a they get content.
We've seen all those guys andand while you're working out and
they're they're just naturallygrowing and just kind of getting
their natural growth.
They're not putting in theextra effort, you see.
That's, that's where thatlittle you see guys pass and lap
guys in this, in this, in thesenext three years the 12, 13, 14

(01:17:17):
, 15, like those years rightthere tons of exchange in talent
levels and where you can assertyourself yeah, well, because
and like you said, like so thereis a complacency, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
So those listening that are early growers that are
having success, and if you canlook around your team and
recognize that you're bigger andyou're stronger, right, so you
have a natural advantage rightnow.
Not, it might not necessarilybe because you're more skilled
and know the game better, right?
So, like, having theself-awareness to recognize that
, hopefully that'll help thoseplayers now go to work.
Yes, but there's that side ofthe game knowledge that I think

(01:17:53):
people overlook a lot too.
Right, like, if I am big andstrong and if I can skate the
puck past somebody or throughsomebody lots of the times, that
is like my first option, right,I can do that.
The smaller player can't dothat.
So now they have to devise aplan, a strategy, understand the
game to be able to get the puckwhere they need to get it to.

(01:18:15):
If that bigger player never isforced to do that until major,
junior, let's say, and sometimesthat's where it happens, right,
and now you're trying to learnthe game because you're not as
big and strong and can't skatethe puck past people, you're at
a distinct disadvantage and it'shard to catch up in that
environment.
So I think there's good lessonsfor both sides of it.
Listening here, right, like youknow there could be glory days

(01:18:35):
right now, but like, recognize,you know, if you want to work at
your game, you can still do it.
Moving the puck past people andusing your teammates is a huge
thing, right, even if you're thebest player on the team, it
helps your development.
God, I just can't stress thatenough.
I get super passionate about itbecause it's like God, like,
yeah, moving pucks.
Like when you said play quick.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Like that is how you can play quick.
Right, you have to move thatpuck head man.
That all those old sayings thatwere around when we were kids
move that puck, play with pace.
You all move, you, you.
The less you have the puck, themore effective you are.
Like just all those littlesayings like move that puck and
then move your feet so you canget the puck back.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
Yeah, yeah, and you even the stuff you talked about
being in that high zone andplaying in soft areas, like
learning how to play without thepuck and support people, is
such a big piece of the game.
And the last one I'll just sayis, like, if you are good right
now, like being great meansmaking people around you better

(01:19:38):
too.
Yes, so yes, it is theinstagram era and it's to
highlight real error and, andyou and you see guys going end
to end and that's what gets puton, put on all these tapes and
on your television feed.
But the guys that are like likethe sydney crosby's of the
world, like that make everybodyon his line always better, is
like that's where the juice islike, be that guy, you know, be

(01:20:00):
that guy, make everyone elsebetter.
That's my, that's my wish foranyone listening right now is
that you take immense amount ofpride in making your teammates
better and you are actuallymaking yourself a better player
in the process of doing that too.
So, okay, stopping with the uh,with the lecture on on youth
development, we're gonna go backto you and I want to talk about
the second time through it.
Actually, you know what I wantto talk about, because it's a it

(01:20:22):
must have been a big thing foryou from a mental side.
Was the trade from dallas tominnesota, back to dallas,
without even going to minnesota,like how was that experience,
coming back, being in the lockerroom, like, talk to me about
that as a as a young, as a youngpro?

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
it was pretty wild because it was basically I
didn't know what was going on.
It was it was just a move toget us away from doing the
getting getting taken bycolumbus.
Oh, so there was that draft,right.
So Columbus had already kind ofmentioned you know, there's a
chance that we may take himshowed some interest in me.

(01:21:04):
Minnesota was like, well, youknow, we're interested, but we
kind of like this other guy.
But Dallas was ultimately like,well, we don't even want to
lose him.
So what if we do that?
So then it was just kind of oneof those ways back in the day.
But I knew nothing about it.
So as soon as it happened to meI was like getting rid of my

(01:21:25):
car because I had a two-wheeldrive, so I wasn't going to work
in minnesota.
So, getting rid of my apartment, I flew home, told my parents
and I flew back to dallas to getout of my apparent apartment.
And like the next day I waslike, oh, hey, by the way, you,
the way you're back.
I'm like, oh, geez, okay.
So that was it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
So did they tell you after the fact that that was the
plan all along, or did theyjust leave?

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
Oh, they did.
Eddie actually told me afterEddie's like we were dying to
tell you.
Remember, when we were out atlike the Big Apple, I'm like hey
, we were about to tell you.
I was like, ah, we could havegone, oh, we would have got in
trouble, like okay, well,whatever, it was really why you
guys were like making sure Icame back to town and weren't,

(01:22:05):
weren't letting me do that.
No, no, no, don't move yourstuff, leave it where it is
right, wow, okay, so all right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
So that wasn't what I thought it was.
I thought that would have been,like you know, a
reconsideration.
Then you're coming back to aplace that maybe you thought
never wanted you in the firstplace.
Right, like it was all a masterplan to keep you.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Yeah, they liked me.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
Sounds like you got some guys coming back in there.
Is that the?

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
Yeah, some guys are starting to pop their heads into
the old alumni room.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
So the pickup game's over?
Well, maybe we'll.
It's been an awesome chat, butI did want to talk to you about
the Tampa Bay one, because youwere yeah, you know, obviously
you had the eight games and wedidn't really talk about that.
I don't know why eight games inthe Stanley Cup Finals isn't
enough to get you on the Cupwhen the whole team only played
23 or 24.
Let's not focus on that.

(01:22:57):
Let's focus on the one whereyou played 18, tampa Bay 0-4,
marty St Louis.
I mean all these guys like thatwhole group coming together and
winning one and obviouslyprobably feeling like you're a
way different piece of thatpuzzle, like how does that?
How did that one settle for you?

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Yeah, that one was unbelievable, you know, came in
in, got trade on our wedding day, so it was an adventure right
from the start.
And then a month in, my wifeannounces she's pregnant.
You know we have an awesomefirst year.
I had an amazing uh partnerwith dan boyle, had a great
first year.
Uh, we bowed out in the secondround to New Jersey where we

(01:23:39):
thought we were like we may beon to something here.
We came back the next year.
We thought Tortsen pushed ushard one year but we went even
harder, please, geez.
And so we thought Tortsenpushed us hard one year, but the

(01:23:59):
second year we won, it was, itwas another animal like he, he
up, the kept, held us to anotherlevel of accountability with
one another, with him, and itjust wound up being incredible
season for us.
And you know, being down intampa, it was perfect.
We were kind of out of sight,out of mind and we can kind of
go about about ourselves.
And at the end of the yearpeople started noticing man,
this Tampa team is kind of forreal, they keep doing their

(01:24:22):
thing.
But then there was this teamover on the West Coast, you know
, at the end of the seasonstarted upping their game with
Calgary.
They were pretty nasty so itwas knocking off.
All the number ones Got a littlebit nerve-wracking for us.
We were watching them.
Number ones got a little bitnerve-wracking for us.
We're watching them Every timewe're watching games.
We're seeing how they'replaying and we're like, ooh,

(01:24:44):
there's some similarities here.
About defense first, hockey isactually being played out west
instead of this run and gunstyle, so this could be an
interesting go for us.
So we'll see how it all comesout.
And it was exactly asadvertised Defense first a bunch
of guys trying to kill allcomes out.
And it was exactly asadvertised defense first bunch
of guys trying to kill eachother.
And it was a blast.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
How was that coming back?
And you mean from your ownmutual relationship with jerome,
like so now you're, you'replaying jerome, obviously.
I mean it's it's probably alifetime it would have felt like
, since you were in the blazerstogether, but but that there is
still a connection there, I'msure, and he was, he was the big
piece of that puzzle yeah, andit was tough to hate him.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
It really was, but I mean, he he was.
It was really tough.
He made it a little easierafter him and vinnie went out at
all, because that was like, ohboy, and he's my boy, buddy, the
pretty good scrap.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
So that was a great piece of that.
That was one of the best piecesof that series with those two,
yeah, going at it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Yeah, of all the battles, that was the toughest
one, because not only do I havethe utmost respect for jerome as
a junior player, but in the nhllike honestly, he's, if not the
best player I've ever playedwith, it's him and mike madano
right, like him and he'sunbelievable.
And as a person, there's no onein the world you don't want to
see not have a sound of cup likejerome should have a sound of

(01:26:05):
cup.
Right, let's get him out ofretirement.
Let's send him somewhere so hecan have a cup.
Like I love the guy to death.
So that was probably thehardest part of the whole deal.
I was so happy to win and toget that, get it there.
But just looking over and belike man, you deserve a cup.
So bad, you played so hard.
If anyone deserves a cup onthat day it was him all right,

(01:26:26):
yeah, what a great.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Well, that's a great place to leave.
I know you got some guys inthere and thanks for for telling
them to be quiet, but uh, maybewe'll do part two and we'll get
into torts, because I love thatidea too of holding guys to a
high standard and what you wouldhave learned from that.
You've been super gracious withyour time, man.
Thanks for sharing all yourideas about development and
sharing your stories along theway.

(01:26:48):
Is there anything you want toleave my listeners with as
parting goods?

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
I don't know.
Happy Thanksgiving from theStates Coming up here this week.
So, uh, no, just keep, keepworking hard.
You know, just silence thedoubters.
Anyone tells you you can't doit.
They're, they're full of it,man, you can do it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
I love it.
I love it.
All, right, man.
Well, uh, that's it and uh,until next time.
I I appreciate you coming out,you got it, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:15):
Talk to you later.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Thank you so much for being here and listening to the
conversation with Brad.
Lots of good stuff.
You know the one that sticksout to me as I just reflect on
what we talked about.
Well, two things actually.
Player identity is massive.
Like I said, I've been workingon it with my inner circle group
about them being able toembrace and understand who they
are as players and how theyprovide value, not only to

(01:27:44):
themselves but to the team.
This is something that you haveto get clear on.
You have to understand the waysin which you can impact a game
positively and to do it asconsistently as you can.
This helps you be understood bycoaches and by evaluators.
It also gives you a frameworkto feel really good about

(01:28:04):
yourself and to grow confidencearound.
By all means, this isconversations you should have
with your family, if you are ayounger player, or with your
coach, if you are confused atall with what attributes you
bring and how you provide value.
Have that conversation, askquestions and then dive in to

(01:28:25):
the execution of that.
I love that piece of theconversation, and the other one
I'll double down on is the ideaof small players in youth hockey
.
If you are a smaller player,especially prepubescent.
If you've not gone throughpuberty yet and you're seeing
people get bigger and strongeraround you, hang on, you will
grow.
It will happen.
Do not get discouraged.

(01:28:47):
Find it and view it, in agrowth mindset capacity, as an
opportunity to improve whereothers aren't.
So, yes, you aren't as strongin the corner.
Yes, you might not be as fastright now.
Yes, you may get knocked offthe puck, but you can learn to
move pucks.
You can learn new ways toattack the game, to get in and

(01:29:08):
out of trouble, to make playersbetter around you, to understand
your ice awareness and to makeyour reads better All these
things that you could be doinglike you're essentially being
forced into doing it or you needto go away, right?
I don't want you to go away.
I want you to view these thingsas places where you can improve

(01:29:30):
and you can still impact ahockey game.
And once you do get the growthspurt, and once you do get the
growth spurt, and once you do,uh, start to get stronger and
bigger muscles, now you're goingto have all these other areas
of the game that are going to bean advantage to you.
So do not get discouraged.
Stay positive, stay in thefight, work your tail off to get

(01:29:50):
better, to get stronger, to bemore knowledgeable of the game,
and things will work out for you.
I promise, promise.
So I think that's a great wayto leave.
Thanks, brad, for being with us.
Thank you for being with us anduntil next time, play hard and
keep your head up.

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EP.144 - Brad Lukowich on Teamwork, Trades, and Triumphs

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP.144 - Brad Lukowich on Teamwork, Trades, and Triumphs