EP.147: Empowering Athletes in the Online World with Katrina German

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This episode with Katrina German emphasizes the importance of managing one's online identity as a young athlete in today's digital landscape. We discuss strategies to combat online bullying, the mental health implications of social media, and the responsibility athletes have to maintain a positive digital presence.

• Importance of digital identity for athletes 
• Risks associated with social media and online presence 
• Mental health challenges linked to social media use 
• Strategies for dealing with online bullying 
• Awareness of the long-term consequences of digital footprints 
• Building resilience and confidence in digital interactions 
• Encouraging responsible online behavior among athletes 
• Tools and techniques for managing online content 
• Promoting positive digital citizenship in sports 
• Call to action: Reflect on your online presence and make conscious decisions regarding digital interactions.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So really the rule of thumb is would you say it to
500 people?
Because just imagine almostanything that you do, even
Snapchat, you can screenshotthat information and anything
that you put down can get outthere.
Even if you delete it from alot of social media accounts or
you know, you put it out thereon, you know, x or Twitter or
your WhatsApp group or whateverEven if you delete it, that

(00:21):
stuff can still either bescreenshotted or there's, you
know, all sorts of software outthere that can actually go back
in the internet to find, okay,this has been posted at one
point, even if it's deleted.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
That was digital strategist and communication
specialist Katrina German, andyou are listening to the Up my
Hockey podcast with JasonPodolan.
Just watch me now a 31stoverall draft pick who played 41
NHL games but thought he wasdestined for a thousand.

(00:51):
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.

(01:12):
Hey there, welcome to 2025.
This is the first episode ofthe new year, and the Up my
Hockey podcast is back backafter a little bit of a hiatus.
Sorry to you folks that like todownload weekly.
Uh, we did take a little bit ofa hiatus.

(01:33):
I am a one man program here, uh, well, obviously with the help
of my production specialist,sarah pad, so we are a two
person team, but, uh, it's toughto get everything on the go, so
we don't uh miss weeks.
Uh, and I apologize for that,uh, but we took a break.

(01:55):
Sometimes breaks are needed.
We went to Mexico, uh, as afamily, which was super fun.
Our first, uh dipped our toe inthe water with an all-inclusive
.
We went down to tulum andactually had a fantastic
experience.
Shout out to the bahiaprincipay down there in tulum.

(02:15):
They took great care of us.
Uh, the food was fantastic.
Uh, the weather wasn't 10 outof 10, but it was like eight out
of 10.
And that was probably sixpoints better than it would have
been at home.
So that was fantastic.
And we just got to unplug andrecharge and, uh, reset for
Christmas and for the new year.

(02:36):
So, uh, took my foot off thegas pedal when it came to the
podcast.
So, again, apologies there, uh,but I hope you all enjoyed some
time with your loved ones andyour family over the break and,
you know, hopefully got awayfrom the arenas and hopefully
ODRs were maybe more in yourplayers' environment.

(02:57):
It's nice to check out from theseriousness of the season and
just being able to play the gamefor fun and, to you know, take
what you need over the break.
So we definitely did, but weare back and ready to go, uh,
for 2025, really looking forwardto offering a great series of
episodes here for you in the newyear.
And, uh, we're starting withsomething that is just a little

(03:21):
bit different.
For Up my Hockey, we haveKatrina German on as our guest
today, and Katrina isn't ahockey player, but she does work
with teams, teams all acrossthe board, hockey teams as well.
With what she does, she worksin a business capacity as well,

(03:42):
but her specialty iscommunications and digital
strategy and uh and how thataffects the individual and how
it affects teams and how we canprotect ourselves, um, from all
the stuff that goes on onlineand on social media platforms,
and I think this is really,really relevant and prevalent in
today's uh environment.

(04:04):
I know in hockey arenas, youknow where phones are involved,
even away from the arenas, whenteams get together, even
individuals away from teams andaway from their players are
maybe out on Thursday night andhave their phone with them and
something gets recorded andshared at the wrong time and

(04:26):
with maybe no context and all ofa sudden we're in hot water.
So we have a conversation aboutall those things, which is,
like I said, which is necessary,and I think it's educational,
this episode, and I think it'svaluable.
A little bit about Katrina,though.
Katrina is an award-winningentrepreneur specializing in
communications technology anddigital strategy.

(04:47):
As mentioned earlier, and asthe CEO and founder of Ethical
Digital, she and her team arechanging the trajectory of the
internet through digitalstrategy, research and
certification.
Katrina has won many awards.
One of the most notable ones isthe prestigious International
Women in Tech Award for Women inCommunications.
Katrina is a strong believer inmeasured results, radical

(05:08):
creativity and using technologyto improve workflow.
Some of the topics we covered,as mentioned.
You know how the internet works, the risks and how to protect
yourself, your athletes, yourteam and your brand.
Social media and thatconnection to the athletes.
Mental health this is a reallybig thing that's happening right
now, making sure that we usesocial media and it doesn't use

(05:29):
us.
And how to you know, insulateourselves and our mental fitness
and our mental health from someof the things that go on there
Online bullying and what to doabout it.
We even steer the conversationin.
You know how to insulate yourbrain from being affected from
the bullying in the first place,as well as what to do when you
do get bullied.
I think it's kind of a two-partconversation there, that we

(05:51):
cover both ends of it.
Uh, in this day and age, itseems to me uh, like we aren't
empowering our players, our, ourchildren, our athletes to be
able to handle criticism,whether it be online, whether it
be right or wrong, whether itbe just or whether it be online,
whether it be right or wrong,whether it be just or unjust,
whether it be a lie or a truth.
We need to be able to be handle.

(06:11):
We need we need to be able tohandle words.
We need to be able to perseverethrough them.
We need to be able tounderstand um that others
people's opinions aren't thatbig of a deal.
So we are talking about thataspect.
We are also talking about whatto do if something negative
happens on social media and howto handle that and how to behave
just as an individual, managingathlete and sports reputation

(06:33):
and thinking about how today'sonline decisions impact your
future.
This is a big one.
There are so many good hockeyplayers out there right now.
Do you need to be aware of howyou are representing yourself
online?
And the answer is yes.
And even if it's not online,even if it's in a group text or

(06:53):
if it's in a private textmessage conversation, you need
to be aware about what you'resaying, what you're sharing, be
aware about what you're saying,what you're sharing, what you
have on your phone, becauseteams can make.
Teams can and do and will makedecisions about it.
Unfortunately, there are lots ofexamples of players who have

(07:14):
been relegated to the caves ofSiberia to never play again
because of some of the decisionsthat they've made in their
teenage years when it comes tophones and what they're doing
with them.
So lots of things to discusshere.
I think you're going to enjoythis one Again, not the typical
discussion, but one that isnecessary.

(07:34):
So, without further ado, Ibring you my conversation with
Katrina German, and happy NewYear to everybody out there.
All right, here we are at Up myHockey and I'm talking with
Katrina German.
Welcome to the program, katrina.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
So pleased to be here .
Thank you for the invitation.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, no, fantastic CEO and founder of Ethical
Digital.
It sounds so professional and Iwant to know what it's all
about.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
So at Ethical Digital , we have the teeny tiny goal
that we want to change thetrajectory of the Internet.
So just a nice small goal.
You know, we've all been inpart of this massive experiment
over the last 10 to 15 years,where our entire lives have
changed from any previousgeneration in terms of how we're
engaging in the online space,and so we're the pioneers in the

(08:24):
online space.
And so we're the pioneers.
We're the first generation ofpeople who are really creating
this base of the internet thatcould take us for generations
into the future.
And what are we creating whenwe're putting this together?
And it's been a bit of the wildwest for this period of time,
but we're starting to get somedata and some information in
about how these types of onlineactivities are affecting people,
and so that's what we're reallyfocused on is let's take some
information from academia, getit into people's hands so they

(08:47):
can actually understand how alot of the things that we're
doing just you know, sort ofjust on our day-to-day work and
day-to-day lives, how it'sactually affecting us Awesome.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, and so how do you think like that, just that
big package that you just talkedabout there?
How does that apply to mylisteners right now, and and and
?
How does the ethical digitalfit into their lives?

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, when it comes to hockey, you know there's a
lot of you know there's so muchexcitement.
There's also also a lot ofpersonal development that
happens through through hockey.
So there's the physicaldevelopment, but there's also
just a lot of engagement and alot of people are doing things
that are offline.
Right, just even participatingin sports is offline, which is
great and good for you.
But again, as part of that andas part of almost any activity

(09:33):
these days, social media isinvolved in that, and so how is
your experience online reallyaffecting you and how can that
really impact your?
You know your personal brand.
You know if you, if you make amisstep, and, and, and you know
screw up.
You know there's a whole cancelculture out there, which means
you know someone screws up theinternet's after them, right,

(09:55):
and making sure that they'rethey're not going further.
So what are some of the thingsthat we can be doing right now?
Thinking about about how you'reparticipating online, but also
how you're setting yourself upfor success in the future.
And you know it's not just theobvious things of what you're
posting online, for you knowyour audience and that sort of
thing.
It's how you're communicatingwith your teammates on WhatsApp,

(10:17):
how you're showing up and howparents are sharing and showing
up what's happening in thesports world and social media as
well.
As you know even further intoit, you know how is this
actually affecting you, how areyou feeling when you're involved
in the online space, and youknow what can you be doing to
make sure that your experienceonline is actually enhancing
your life, not taking away fromit.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Right.
Do you see?
I mean a lot of the shade thatcomes from, you know, the social
media platforms, the internetin general.
Is that what you just said?
That it's not really leavingpeople feeling better about
themselves?
Maybe their situation Is thatshowing up in youth more so than

(10:59):
potentially in adults?

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh yeah, Well, here's the thing is.
You know, there's a lot offocus right now in the news.
Jonathan Haidt just had a greatbook that came out called the
Anxious Generation, and it was aNew York Times bestseller and
you know it really hit theairwaves.
So it's really talking aboutyouth right now.
But this is a story.
This is an issue that affectseverybody, you know, of all ages

(11:21):
, anybody who's online, really,which is around 96% of the
Canadian population, so it's youknow.
So this is something that reallyaffects people of all ages, you
know, but our youthparticularly, because, you know,
a lot of us remember a timewhen there wasn't the internet.
I remember having, you know,conversations and growing up in

(11:41):
a space.
I remember my first time in achat room.
You know things like that.
So we have an understanding oflife without the internet,
whereas a lot of our youngpeople are growing up with it
completely enmeshed, completely,entirely a part of their life.
So a lot of the things that youknow we dealt with as teenagers
and you know, kind of thosecoming of age lessons and
developmental lessons are waymore acute for our young people,

(12:03):
because not only are they, youknow, trying to walk through
their lives in reality, but theyalso have to sort of project a
life online, you know, forfriends to stay connected and
and so what does that mean?
And so there is a slightdifference, but it is.
It is an issue that affectseverybody.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, and and so, maybe, and so maybe we can dive
into that.
I mean, as far as what isproper behavior or etiquette,
you know, a lot of times I thinkyou know guys will have a you
know a text message to groupthread, or maybe they're in
WhatsApp or maybe they're onSnapchat.

(12:41):
You know, I'm just thinkingabout the.
You know the athletes that Iwork with and I think in some
contexts they feel like it's aprivate discussion room.
You know that they're sharingwhatever.
They're sharing their jokes,their barbs, their whatever, and
sometimes what's maybe said inthere isn't what they want to be

(13:01):
shared somewhere else.
I'm just like, how do youbalance that, especially in a
teenage brain where you know youkind of feel like, hey, this is
a safe place.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I think the best rule of thumb is would you
stand up in front of 500 peopleand say that thing?
So are you comfortable?
And you know, it's also one ofthose things, too, where our
world is changing right now.
Making sure that you're usinginclusive language, you know,
not being too insulting, allthat kind of stuff is really
important to people.
Bullying is incrediblyimportant, you know, because we
know the impacts that that hason people for life.
So really, the rule of thumb iswould you say it to 500 people?

(13:40):
Because just imagine, almostanything that you do, even
snapchat, you can screenshotthat information and anything
that you put down can get outthere, even if you delete it
from a lot of social mediaaccounts or you know, you put it
out there on you know, x ortwitter or you know, or your
whatsapp group or whatever.
Even if you delete it, thatstuff can still either be
screenshotted or there's, youknow, all sorts of software out

(14:01):
there that it can actually goback in the internet to find,
okay, this has been posted atone point, even if it's deleted.
So just never, you know, usethe grandma test, right like,
would you ever say this to yourgrandma?
Would this be something thatyou'd be comfortable with her
knowing was coming out of yourmouth, and whether that's about
another person, about yourself,maybe just some sort of joke it
really is understanding that,even if it feels like it's a

(14:23):
it's a small group, you know,who are just paying attention um
, it's actually.
It can have a lot furtherrepercussions and we see this
all the time, like and that'snot uncommon there's a lot of
times when someone is thinking,hey, this is just our small
group, this is just my buddies,this is never going to get
anywhere, but it does, and youknow, those things leak out.
And I'm also just going to addone more thing, jason.

(14:44):
Um, I want you to remember thatalmost all jobs it's something
like 86 percent of jobs are notposted.
Most of them go to friends andacquaintances and people that
you know, and that's just acommon way of hiring.
That's maybe it's been done alot in your life, but
particularly with you know,hockey and different groups like
that, where people are growingup, those are.
These are all people who, onyour team, you're probably going

(15:05):
to see for the rest of yourlife, like, maybe not all of
them, but there'll be a bunch ofthem you're going to bump into
professionally in your work andall that kind of stuff in the
future.
And so you know, even thoughyou're not thinking about this
way, you're just like, hey, it'smy buddy, you know, down the
road, you don't, as you know theguy who was always chugging
beers and you know beinghilarious about drinking, you
want to be known as somebody whois respectful online and you

(15:26):
know somebody who's hireable inthe future, and so I know that
it's hard for you know, perhapsteenagers to understand what you
know those impacts can be.
But being a good person andreally truly connecting with
people online is always going tobe more powerful than you know,
kind of showing the worst partsof yourself or, you know,
saying some things that are edgy, you know, or funny, you know.
I use quotation marks, you knowthat you know people will carry

(15:49):
with them and remember goingforward.
It's something where it's notjust right now.
You have repercussions for along time.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, I believe it.
I mean, it's true, it's justlike I'm just trying to think.
You know, I tried to do my bestin a 48 year old brain to
remember what it'd be like in a,in a 15 or an 18 year old brain
and uh, and the boundaries arehard, like I think the
boundaries are hard for thisgeneration to know.
Uh, because where's thedelineation?
Right, like the locker room isone thing and I'm not saying

(16:16):
like absurd stuff happens in thelocker room, but it is a
different.
There's a differentconversation that can happen
there than in the classroom,right?
And?
And I think that as socialbeings we do all understand
these different constructs,right, that I am, when I am with
grandma, I can say this.
So when I'm with the boys inthe dressing room, I can say
this.
When I'm in the locker room orin the classroom with my teacher
, I can say this Like, so we,we're sort of conditioned to

(16:37):
have these, these places andthis way to be.
And then we have this thing nowcalled the internet.
That it's it.
Because it's so disconnected, Ithink it's hard to understand
how you're connecting.
I think, just in its natureit's sort of strange.
And uh, and then to tell a 15year old at 11 o'clock at night
or whatever on a Friday, whenthey're sitting in the room,

(16:59):
that they you know that theycan't tell the joke they want to
tell, or whatever the case maybe.
I think that just gets hard forthem in the moment, right, like
to, to stay connected to thatand I'm just trying to think of,
like, what would I say now?
I mean, I am a coach, like Iwork with, I work with kids,
like, how do you, how do youhelp them help themselves?
You know, in those moments, andI and I love what you piece

(17:23):
Like, but there needs to beself-awareness to that Like.
And I think a lot of kids atthat age are still trying to
figure out who they are and whatthey're all about, you know,
and what they stand for.
But I think, the more that wecan be authentic in our voice,
in our message, in what we are,then we're probably not wearing
too many different hats in thesedifferent circles, right, and
trying to be different things.
But I don't know, is thereanything else that comes to mind
other than you know, whatyou've mentioned already to help

(17:45):
these players?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Well, you know, what I'm thinking is like the very
first thing to understand, and Iwant to talk a little bit about
how let's not let big tech ownus.
I think that that's somethingthat can really appeal to young
people right is understandingthat they're sort of pawns in a
giant game that they were borninto, and so understanding how

(18:07):
technology works is one of thevery first steps.
That a lot of people just don'treally realize because we just
use these tools right.
They're just right there.
A lot of people think of youknow Facebook, instagram, you
know Snapchat all that kind ofstuff is their own personal
newsletter.
Here's what my friends are upto, all of that kind of thing.
But really each of theseplatforms are actually very
sophisticated marketingplatforms.
That's how they make thebillions of dollars, you know,

(18:28):
and it's because they they'reselling ads, they're selling ad
times.
They're going to do all sortsof things to get your eyeballs
back on whatever, on whateverplatform that is.
So that's notificationsbringing you back.
You know when you're like, hey,I'm just in class and all of a
sudden I'm getting anotification, and if they're

(18:48):
trying to bring you back,because a lot of people think
money is their biggest commodity, but right now in this economy,
it's actually your attention.
Where are you putting your time?
Are you building skills, andyou know, building your hockey
skills and that sort of thing orare you spending time online
and, you know, kind of lettingbig tech own you in a little way
and bring you back to what youwant to do.
So you know there's a lot ofthe Social Dilemma is a great.
It's an older documentary butit's a really great one to watch

(19:12):
.
It really talks about thetricks that are employed by
these social media groups toactually manipulate people and
they're really deeppsychological tricks.
It's very hard for people toget through them because they're
based deep in who we are aspeople and again with the goal
of advertising and selling thosedollars.
So one of the things that Ifound works fairly well with

(19:36):
teenagers particularly is don'tlet big tech own you.
Like.
Become aware of how this wholeonline experience, you know, has
sort of developed.
And yes, you've been born intoit.
Yes, it's just part of yourworld right now, but take a
bigger look at it and see howthat you know, instead of
letting them own you.
How can you own it?
How can you make sure that yourtime is yours?
That you know.

(19:56):
Even though you'reparticipating as yourself, you
know that you're stillunderstanding that there's.
You know there's a lot going on.
That there's, you know there'sa lot going on.
There's people collecting yourdata, almost everything that
you're writing, you know they're.
They're taking a look at thatand trying to decide again.
It's not somebody sitting backthere, you know, behind a
curtain being like, hey, youknow what is Jason, you know,
interested in today.
I'm going to advertise thesethings.
It's all automatic.
It's really.

(20:16):
It's an intense process for ahuman to come up against because
it's you know, there's a lot ofthings built in to manipulate
people and bring them back tothe platforms.
So, as a young person, that'sthe first thing is.
I know you're buildingcharacter and thinking about who
you're going to be, butultimately, you know, think
about your relationship withthese technology platforms in

(20:39):
general and how are they healthyfor you.
And some people are going tofind I need a full break from
this.
Some people may decide tominimize.
Other people might be like youknow what I need to spend more
time, more conscious time,online and building
relationships and networks there.
But just being aware that it isa platform, there's a lot of
information and data beingcollected about you and what
you're doing and talking about,and you know thinking about that

(21:02):
and being like, okay, whichthings, which parts of my life,
like we're all, a whole person,right, we have a whole circle.
But which parts of your lifeare you willing to share online?
So, for me, I have children,but I don't really talk about
that on my social media.
I occasionally put some thingsout on Facebook that sort of
thing, but that's you know.
I'm there professionally, I'mthinking consciously about the
types of things I'm putting upand I think everybody, no matter

(21:25):
what age, needs to be thinkingabout that.
So be authentic, but no matterwhat, even if it feels like a
private group, be thinking aboutwhat parts of yourself you're
willing to share and how youwant to be perceived.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I love that and actually that is something that
you know.
The similar message may be alittle bit different words, but
that is one thing.
When there's a week in myprogram where it's a lot of
personal development and mindsetstuff for hockey players and
and one of the weeks in weekfour, we talk about the
controllables and I break downthese five controllables and one
of the controllables I talkabout with athletes is habits.

(21:57):
Right, so your habits aresomething that you can, are
within your control and,generally speaking, if we can
dial in those habits and we canmake them be without thinking,
right you're, you're really astep ahead of things.
Now, part of one of theexercises within that week is a
thing I call stops and starts.
So, uh, you know, what can westop or or or do less of and
what do we want to start?
And guess what the thing isthat, like you know, vast

(22:19):
majority of the guys say aregirls.
You know it's what they want tostop.
They want to be on their phonesless they legitimately want to
be.
And then the conversation turnsto essentially what you just
said.
I think it speaks to thecompetitive nature, at least of
the people that I speak with andwork with is like you're losing
.
You know, like you're reallylosing.
Every time that you have beenon that phone or been on that

(22:41):
game or been in whatever socialyou know social platform for
longer than you intended to,you've lost and they've won.
You know, and and so I meanexactly what you're saying.
Right, it's like beingself-aware enough to catch
yourself that you know this is,this wasn't my plan.
Right, I wasn't.
I didn't want to be on TikTokfor two hours.
And why you don't feel goodabout it is because you know

(23:02):
that's not the best way youcould use your time.
Right, like there's, thereactually is a feedback loop
within you that's telling youthis isn't what you should be
doing, and I mean this is prettymature stuff.
I think I mean what we'retalking about, because I know
numerous adults that have a hardtime recognizing that too, but
at least I think that that thereis a you know, there is
something there that people canget their hooks in.

(23:23):
You know, like these young guys, and then you can actually plan
, like I.
It's.
One thing I try and say is like, why are you on tiktok?
Like it's totally okay not tobe in the puck, I mean in the
garage shooting pucks your wholelife and working out your.
I mean there's a need to chilland relax and get a laugh, but
just recognize what it is likewhen you need that and how much
of it you need.

(23:43):
You know, and if we canarchitect that a little bit more
, I think that's.
That's a big advantage for theplayers that take it seriously
enough to do that.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
You know.
I love that because there areso many productivity studies out
there and basically how socialmedia is affecting productivity.
And so, whether that's, youknow your development of your
sports skills, you know justsocial skills, spending time
with people in real life.
You know education, all thedifferent things you can be
doing.
It's a good example of a parentwho had taken the phone away
and she said it was amazing shewatched her kid go out and learn

(24:13):
how to do backflips, which theynever would have done had the
phone not been taken away youknow, I do backflips on the
trampoline, you know, and that'sthat's kind of the nature of it
, right?
If you think about it, most ofus have smartphones in North
America.
So if you go and take a look atyour smartphone it will tell
you how much time you'respending per day on social media
.
And experts say you should bespending less than two hours a

(24:34):
day, and that's also a lot.
There's some who say half anhour, you know.
So a lot of people are far pastthat.
So if you think about it andyou're like, hey, I've spent
more than two hours a day, whatelse could you have been doing
with that time?
But then you know, if you gointo it even further, there's
really interesting studies outthere.

(24:55):
Like even just having yourphone around around, learning is
really interesting.
There's studies that you know.
There's a group that they hadthree different groups trying to
learn something.
So the first group was giventheir phone to learn something.
The second group was given just, you know, they had their phone
nearby but was just told to,you know, kind of go through the
learning process.
And the third group no phone,no, anything.
The only group that actuallylearned was the group who did

(25:18):
not have their phone near themat all, and so we actually talk
about that.
You know, when we do a lot ofour productivity training is get
your you know.
If you have something importantto do or something you really
want to learn, get that phoneright out of the room.
Because there's a part of ourunconscious brain that even if
we're, you know, focused on whatwe're doing, just your phone
sitting there.
There's a part of you who'slike kind of waiting for it.
Right, where's that ding coming?

(25:39):
Where's that notificationcoming?
I'm aware that it's there andso it actually draws you know
different things.
Also, the way that people arelearning is very different right
now.
In the past, people would learnwith the idea that you're
almost developing a library inyour head and so that later you
know if you need to go find someinformation, you can go rummage
through the library and findthat information.
The way that people arelearning now is that they're

(26:01):
actually learning how to findthe information.
So the information itself is notbeing retained.
In the same way, people'sability to actually go find that
information in online searchingis becoming a whole new way
that we're actually thinking asa human being.
Yeah, and so you know there'smassive changes that are going
on from a physical perspective,from a, you know, from just a

(26:22):
habit perspective.
That's just really a new areafor all humans to navigate, and
so thinking about that and thatproductivity piece is massive
because it actually has aphysical effect on us, and so if
you're really wanting tooptimize yourself and optimizing
the way that you're spendingyour days, I would recommend
being exceptionally consciousabout how you're using your

(26:43):
phone and your social media time.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
I'm just going to take a short break from my
conversation with Katrina togive a shout out and celebrate
those athletes in BC,saskatchewan, alberta and
Manitoba who have alreadyreceived invitations to the UMH
68 invitation or who are aboutto receive invitations to the
UMH 68 invitational.

(27:11):
It's an exciting time right now.
We're getting our invitationsout, our phase one invitations,
uh, to the events in may andjune and uh, super exciting time
for everyone involved in umh 68.
Uh, I have representatives.
We're coming to manitoba forthe first time this june.
Craig geeky, a former teammateof mine for the spokane chiefs,

(27:33):
is is being my on-the-ground manthere in Manitoba.
If you're not familiar withCraig's name, I'm sure you are
familiar with Morgan and Connor,his two boys, who are currently
NHLers.
And yeah, he's going to bebringing a 2011 event to Brandon
Manitoba.
Excited about that.

(27:54):
If you are listening fromManitoba, and if you have a 2011
who is exceeding expectationsand who is rising to the top of
his age group, by all means makesure that we know who you are.
It is our job to find the bestplayers, but it is also your job
to make sure that you are found.
You can do that by going to theUp my Hockey website underneath

(28:18):
the UMH 68.
There is a watch list for yourage group.
What does that mean?
That means that you put yourname on the list, you tell us
why you should join the UMH 68,why you deserve to be there.
You provide a reference whichis your coach for us to get in

(28:40):
touch with to validate youreligibility, and we'll get some
eyes on you and if we feel thatyou are ready for the UMH 68,
you may receive an invite.
So that's one way to do it.
If you are a coach out therelistening and you want to refer
a player, that is an awesome wayto do it as well.
Get on our watch list form andfill out a form for your player.
Great to get the localcommunity involved.

(29:00):
Again, it's for in Brandon.
It's for anyone from Manitobain a 2011 age group.
That's going to be an excitingtime.
In Saskatchewan, we are dealingwith Hugh Hamilton, another
ex-Spokane chief partner of mine, a heck of a hockey player in
his own right, played pro for awhile, and he has an
up-and-coming star in CalderHamilton.

(29:22):
I believe he was the fifthoverall pick in the 2009 Born at
WHL draft class, so excitingtime to watch Calder come along
and he's going to be handling a2012 event in Martinsville,
saskatchewan, so that'll behappening in June.
Again, if you are listening inSaskatchewan, if you know a 2012

(29:44):
player, if you have a 2012player that you would like to
represent or have be represented, by all means get on the watch
list.
That's going to be an excitingtime.
And Alberta we're coming for youtoo.
We're going to be in Canmore,alberta, at the end of May.
Jason Holland is going to behelping me there, along with a
couple other coaches that havebeen announced.

(30:05):
Chris Joseph, a longtime NHLand former teammate of mine.
Also, martin Sonnenberg isgoing to be involved.
We are bringing an event toCanmore and that's for the 2012
age group.
So, again, the watch lists areon the website.
Invitations have gone out andwill continue to go out.
We are going to fill theseevents with 68 of the best and

(30:29):
brightest from each province fora competitive, developmental
and educational weekend.
We put all the players on fourdifferent teams.
They are guaranteed five games,lots of special perks, lots of
special benefits and featuresfrom an Up my Hockey event, and
you're going to be happy thatyou were involved.
So, yeah, let's get excitedabout the watch list idea.

(30:50):
Let's get some players' namescoming in and really excited to
bring these events to the newprovinces.
A big expansion for the Up myHockey brand and the UMH 68
Invitational BC.
We're definitely morewell-known this is our third
year running now and there is alot of chatter going on.
So, yeah, that's somewhere youcan follow us at UMH 68 on
Instagram.
You can also find us on theFacebook page.

(31:12):
So, yes, congratulations to allof you who received invitations
, and there's more to be coming.
And now let's get back to ourconversation with Katrina German
.
Yeah, I mean, for thoselistening, like I think that we
all, I'll just share a story,like I thought again, I sit at

(31:32):
my desk a lot with what I haveto do with work.
You know, whatever adminsetting up calls you know doing,
you know doing my, doing my uh,marketing and all that kind of
stuff, and so the phone's thereand do I want to be in front of
my computer all the time?
No, and so we need to have sometype of a disconnect from the
million things that are going on.
So one of my disconnects wasplaying chess on my phone
healthy habit, I thought, right,um, I would sit back and that'd

(31:56):
be my 10 minutes, whatever youknow, play a couple games of
chess and then come back.
Well, it turned into, likeanytime I'd have like a positive
thought, or you know, I mean,was it maybe a little bit not
super clear on what my objectivewas?
Maybe at that moment then, likethen, like you said, the
phone's there, I would grab itand I'd play chess, and then I
started realizing that I wasplaying way more chess than I
was Right and and it was it to aspot where it wasn't something

(32:19):
that was, it was initiallyserving a purpose, and then now
it was like a distraction,essentially.
So I mean, what did I do?
I don't have chess on my phoneanymore, so you know, like, but
those are hard decisions to make, I think, as teenagers, right
Like to win, I mean, is it?
Do we have, you know, is therenot?
Do we go zero policy?
Right?
Do we?
Do we have some type of analarm system?
I guess there's not a right way, because everyone's wired

(32:41):
different and everyone's goingto make different choices.
But I think the big thing is isto recognize that you can make
a choice right, like, I think,if you can at least recognize
that that there is a choice tobe made and you don't become
unconscious about the way you'reliving.
I think that is a big enoughtool almost in and of itself.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Agreed, agreed, and you know there's software tools
out there that can help you.
If you're finding that you justcan't make that decision
yourself, some of the platformsthemselves will build it in
where they'll give you anotification and say hey, you
said you only wanted to be onhere for an hour.
I think TikTok does that.
You know you only want to behere for an hour.
You know it's now or now andyou want to keep going.
You know, but a lot of peopleare just going to ignore that
sort of thing.
But you really just you know,if you want to be conscious

(33:23):
about this, actually putting insome software, you know and
thinking about it can beexceptionally helpful.
You know, and ultimately liketo your point, jason, it's
really about how it makes youfeel and I think that's a really
important thing to be thinkingabout like.
So I was talking about how muchyou should be on the phone.
You know less than two hours aday and again, ideally even more
or even less.

(33:43):
But you know it's also one ofthose things where it's you know
, if you're finding you'respending a lot of time online
where it's actually causingproblems in your life, where
people are saying, hey, hold on,it's actually causing problems
in your life where people aresaying, hey, hold on, I every
time I try to talk to you, youknow you leave the conversation
to go to your phone.
Uh, we've been out for dinneras a family and nobody's talked
to each other this whole time,cause we've all been on our
phones.
Um, you know things like youknow a partner being a

(34:05):
girlfriend, boyfriend being likehey, I, you know, I, just I
don't.
I feel like you're so onlineit's causing problems for my
life.
That's when you know that itmight be getting into a problem
area, potentially addiction,that sort of thing and so there
are a lot of counselors and such.
There's a whole new area ofcounseling that's come out of
people who specifically work inonline addiction.

(34:26):
So if it's causing issues withyourself and the way you're
perceiving yourself and what youwant to accomplish in your life
, as well as people around youare commenting on and stuff,
it's that's when you know it'sactually probably gone from.
I'm using this a lot into.
Okay, I may have crossed a linehere and I need to maybe really
do some.
I might be deeper in than thanother people and so I might need

(34:48):
to do some backing up and theother part, too, is you're
talking about feels right, likethere's a lot of mental health
issues that are.
You know, when I first startedstudying this, we gathered up
all the academic research wecould find from around the world
about how social media wasaffecting people's wellbeing.
And you know spoiler alertthere's absolutely a correlation
and when we first started thisit was saying correlation.

(35:10):
We think, you know, when you'reusing this, you know it becomes
this.
But now there's a lot of studiescoming out saying there's a
causation between social mediause and things like anxiety,
depression, sleep disorders, uh,self-image, um, a lot of
different pieces and uh, so youknow, really thinking about, no
matter what you're doing online,is this making me feel better

(35:31):
or is this making me feel worse?
Because it can be a really niceplace to relax, can be a great
place to connect with friends,have a good laugh, you know, do
a connection point.
But you know, if you're onthere and you're suddenly like
you know, I'm following allthese people and I just feel
like I'm not enough or I am, youknow this.
You know I actually feel grossafter watching some of the
things that I just watched.

(35:52):
You know, it just got me.
I don't feel better.
Stop.
You know this is really a timewhere you're going to know
what's right for you.
Nobody else is monitoring whatyou're doing online except for
you.
You know even your parents allthat kind of stuff.
They're probably trying, butyou know you're you're having
way more hours than anybodycould possibly monitor.
So thinking about that andbeing like is this making me

(36:12):
better or is this making me feelworse, can be one of the best
things that you can do foryourself, because that mental
health pieces is really big.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, the you mentioned the time there.
I saw that on like the Canadianrecommended whatever.
It almost made me throw up inmy mouth because it was like two
to three hours a day.
I mean I'm going to get thiswrong, but whatever it was.
It was like 3, five x more timeis recommended on day than
exercising or outside.
It was like 30 minutes outsideand like three hours.

(36:40):
I'm like what?
Like yeah, how does that getlike, how does that get so
upside down already and andalmost be like, how is that
normalized enough that, like theCanadian government is putting
that out there, like I think itis, it's gotten so topsy-turvy
that it's.
It is a little bit scary andand I think it's even scary in
who I work with, which is kidswho want to be great hockey

(37:01):
players yes, right, like them.
Like they have a drive, theyhave a goal, like they are doing
more than the vast majority ofteenagers, I think, out there
and they're experiencing this asan issue like I could not even
imagine having a kid thatdoesn't really know what they
want to do and just comes homefrom school and really has no
drive or mission.
Like it must be an epidemic inlike in some spots.

(37:23):
So, yeah, it kind of just blowsmy mind like how, how intrusive
you know it is and can be if welet it, you know, if we let it.
I don't know I'm not here togive parenting advice, but like
that, let it, you know, if welet it.
I don't know I'm not here togive parenting advice, but like
that.
The one thing that justpersonally drives me crazy and
one thing we didn't do as as thefamily young family going out,
was like no one had an iPad at atable when they were five or

(37:43):
four or six, right, like, and Ijust like, when I see that now
I'm like, oh my god, like you'reso conditioning them to be,
like, not present all the time.
You know and is, and is it?
Is it for me as the customer inthe restaurant because maybe
they might, you know, make aloud noise?
Is it for you because you don'twant to be disturbed?
Or, uh, I don't know, I I do.
I do get a little fired up overthat one because it's like gosh

(38:07):
, like that's all these kidshave ever known, right.
And now you and I are havingthis conversation.
That like, probably, I guess,right Like, if a 15 year old is
listening to this, they'reprobably in that generation that
has had an iPad in front oftheir face since they've been
one, so they don't know anydifferent.
And now they're supposed to beable to regulate somehow, right
Like?
That's pretty unfair.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, it is.
It is Cause a lot of thoseskill buildings and a lot of
those like things that youlearned when you're very young
the interpersonal skills, theconnection with parents, eye
contact you know we're actuallyseeing a decrease in eye contact
.
A lot of people are beingdiagnosed as having autism and
things like that, because, youknow, that's sort of that's a
broad generalization.
Some people are being diagnosedas being on the spectrum
because they're just not makingeye contact and it's not because

(38:47):
they're not doing it, it's justthey never learned, they were
on, you know, they were onscreens and such, and a lot of
those just interpersonal skillsthat we have when we're
connecting with people are justsort of missing and, uh, you
don't need to be learned, ratherthan and then than walking away
from that.
And it is a thing, right, andit's a thing for adults too,
right, like it's one of thosethings where we're also deeply

(39:08):
reaching in.
You know we're bored and in thepast we might look around like
go for a little walk.
We might, you know, sing a know, sing a little song, figure out
a problem in our mind, you know, whatever, um, but now it's
like hey, I'm bored for twoseconds, phone out, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
And uh, being bored is amazing, by the way, I say
that like it's, it's like one ofthe best things you can be is
bored, like it allows you to becreative, it allows you to find
other things to do, it allowsyou to sit with your thoughts.
Like the fact that nobody isbored ever anymore is crazy to
me.
Like I think that's such adisservice too is like, yeah,
find something interesting aboutlife or figure out something on

(39:45):
your own about you, uh, and ifyou never have that time,
because flipping tiktoks in yourface or whatever the else is
going on there, it's just, yeah,it kind of gets scary.
Actually, one of uh, of theopen, open, uh, dirty laundry in
our house.
So one of my kids you knowwhatever misbehaves he got his
phone taken away for for a month.
No, not a month, a week, a week.
Let's not go, that's not to go.

(40:10):
It was honestly like the bestthing for the entire family in
some ways, because that that sonof mine was then more present,
because he just was forced to beright and so then that made us
all be more present.
That made us like we playedclue a few times this week when
we wouldn't have otherwise right, like we.
There was just things thathappened in our house just

(40:31):
because one of us out of fivedidn't have their device you,
you know, and they were boredand they needed to interact,
right, human interaction.
Like it was really cool, likeit was a really.
It wasn't meant to be anexperiment, but it turned out to
be like a super positive thing.
So, yeah, I mean the challengeis out there.
I mean I think that we all knowwhether we were born with it or
whether we were born without it.

(40:52):
It's been introduced to us thatthings just feel better when
we're around people makingconnections.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Absolutely, and that's that's really car, quite
core to the human experience,and that's you know what we're
here for.
And you know if there's anyparents out there who are kind
of like I don't know.
You know there's a lot ofinformation coming out and what
we're seeing is that it's notgoing to be just you who's going
to have to probably enforcethis, like, of course, that's
your job as a parent, butsometimes it's difficult when
you have.
You know everybody at school isonline, right, they're missing

(41:20):
out on their social life.
They're okay.
That's how my kid communicateswith their friends.
Is they game online?
You know things like that.
But there are some things thatare happening in the regulation
space that are making it mucheasier for parents to be able to
do this.
So, for example, a lot ofschools I know in Saskatchewan
they just cut out phones forelementary schools and then they

(41:41):
have them only on breaks forhigh schools.
Australia just banned socialmedia for anybody under the age
of 16.
Now, I know everybody's goingto try to get around it and all
that kind of stuff, but in themeantime, a lot of the
regulators are finally startingto see the true issue this is
having for our young people andthe true impact it's having on
their lives and are starting tomake it so that the structures
around this are going to besupporting parents a little bit

(42:02):
more too in the future, of beingable to kind of create and
enforce these rules, you know,if they choose to, because it is
, it's difficult, like it's.
You know I would take my kid'sphone away and it wasn't, I
wasn't just taking away you knowhis fun gaming time, I was
taking away his communicationwith his friends, you know, and
his, you know his time onlineand you know learning in the way

(42:24):
he learns, and you know so.
There's a lot of pieces aroundthere that were you know, that
were a thing, and I actuallyreally appreciate that some of
the regulatory bodies arestarting to see this and make it
easier for parents to be like.
It's not just you, nobody elseat high school is going to have
their phone either for this week, except for on breaks you know
things like that.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I mean in some ways
like, I mean in some ways it'sunfair, really right.
I mean to just all of a suddenbe like ah, you know, no, this
is all.
You've probably feel isolated,and that's probably where some
of these mental health thingscome in.
But I do think there's a way tomanage it, and I think when you
include kids in the discussionlike that's really the best part
and it sounds like that's whatyou're doing I think there's way

(43:02):
more buy-in when it's like whatdo you think?
Like, how do you want to spendyour time?
I mean, what do you want toaccomplish this week?
You know, how do you feel afteryou do this, and then they,
they start answering those ownquestions and then you give them
some tools and some ways tomaybe manage themselves and then
all of a sudden, we haveconfidence because we're making
new decisions and we're doingthings that we didn't do before
and we feel better aboutourselves.

(43:23):
And I think I think when you putas much ownership as you can in
in the hands and minds of ofthese, of these young, young
boys and girls like they, theyusually they usually come
through pretty loud and clear.
Right, it's really exciting.
I love where I love workingwith the athletes I work with,
because they want to be good,you know, and sometimes they
just need some tools and someencouragement to do that.

(43:43):
When it comes to when it comesto the bullying aspect, I think
we should probably cover thisbecause I think I might go a
different direction with it.
At least, maybe I don't knowLike am I a fan of bullies?
Not at all.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
But I don't feel that we're really equipping anyone
anymore to how to deal with abully, and how we are equipping
them to deal with it, I think,is completely wrong for the most
part, like so how do you can wetalk about maybe that whole
thing as a package?
Like you know, the presence ofwhat a bully is online, what
that may look like in thecontext of who my audience is,
and and and.

(44:18):
Yeah, and then let's just startthere.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Absolutely so.
There's a lot of differentforms of bullying that happens
online, right?
They're from the smallestnuance of someone's being funny
and I use quotation marks andit's taking someone down, even
in their friend group andWhatsApp or Instagram.
Can you know?
You know, and they're, justlike you know, cutting down
their buddy.
You know that kind of thing.
That's a really minor version.
You know up to the very extremethings where people are
completely being canceled.
You know there's actuallyentire troll farms out there who

(44:46):
just try to make people feelworse.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
What does that mean?
Can we break that down?

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Cause that's kind of like, and I'm probably
completely naive to some of thestuff that's happening, yeah,
but there's entire groups outthere who are out there who are
actually trying actively tospread information to make
people who are thinking in adifferent philosophical way than
them, to make them feel bad,and so there's actually like
trolls for hire, essentially,where you can actually find

(45:11):
these companies who will go out,and it's kind of part of
corporate espionage and all thatkind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
So there's, so it's actually.
I'm going to say, well, what'sthe business model?
So it's an actual businessmodel.
This is like I could advertisefor this.
Is it like an undergroundadvertising or is it straight up
in your face if you want tolook at it?

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Sometimes both.
Yeah, like I think, you knowit's probably a bit of dark web.
There's also, there's somegroups who would, you know, pose
as a legitimate business, whoare willing to do that, so, and
then there's also, you know,different countries, right?
This is a big espionage, is amassive area in the digital
space where people are actuallypurposely sending misinformation

(45:47):
into different countries inorder to divide countries, you
know, have issues with theirdemocracy.
Things like that, like these,are actually things that are
happening and being studiedacross across the internet.
So you know, this whole issueand basically how we make people
feel, you know, comes from thesmallest of friend groups of
somebody who made somebody feelworse, you know, instead of

(46:08):
better.
Up to you know very extremethings where people are actually
committing suicide or companiesare going down, you know, or
things like this that are, youknow, we're losing market share,
and you know there's a lot ofdifferent and you know there's a
lot of very extreme variationswhen it comes to cyberbullying.
But what we're, you know, whenwe're talking about sort of the
things that most people aredealing with, it tends to be

(46:29):
sort of within a friend group orsomebody from their school or
team or whatever is, you know,just put something up that's
inappropriate, you know, andmade that person feel
embarrassed.
And it's different thanbullying, than when we were
growing up, right, because youknow something might happen,
there might be an incident andit might live on in a few
people's memories, but you knowit would be gone, right, it was
going to happen in reality,whereas sometimes the bullying

(46:50):
things that can happen now it'sonline.
Somebody's entire name is, youknow, attached to a certain
YouTube video or something likethat, which can have really big
repercussions, and so, you know,to the way that they're feeling
and experiencing the world, butalso you know communicating.
So there's actually severalsteps that you can take with how
this is shaking out.
So the first you know some ofthese things.

(47:12):
You know like anything mightjust be best to ignore it, right
, you know if it's not going tobe a big deal.
You know all that kind of stuff.
The second step is you know theold school of hey, just talk to
your buddy and be like man,that's kind of like super uncool
, you know.

(47:34):
And then you'd have to figureout.
You know your friend group andhow you're going to.
You know communicate that andwithin the way that you
communicate, but then you knowif that's not going to be the
way that's happening a lot ofthese social media platforms.
If you report it but it's oftenyou don't need to.
You know, if it's just oneperson reporting it, it often
might not get the attention thatit want, you want from the
social media platform.
So reaching out to a few otherfriends, asking relatives even,

(47:56):
you know, to go and report thespecific thing, is one of the
best ways to get that taken downtoo.
And then you know after that,you know it's kind of the
escalation of it.
If it's, you know if it's, ifit's that bad, if it's something
that's a problem like this iswhen you need to bring in a
little bit of extra help.
Right, like you need to.
You need to not feel alone asyou're going through that
experience, as a personexperiencing it.

(48:16):
So bringing in a team of youknow your parents, your, you
know your coaches, your, youknow your, your school teachers,
whatever the case is, to workon it together and you know
people that you trust to kind ofbe like all right, we've, you
know, gone to the social mediaplatforms to try to get this
taken down.
This person is still doing it.
You know, whatever the case is,and you know, knowing that if

(48:37):
there's anything, anything like,no matter what your age is, if
you have anything with nudity inany form, like even if someone
you know is creating somethingthat's a fake or anything like
that, that can be consideredchild pornography and that can
be very serious and be escalatedto the police, which happens
pretty regularly actually inschool systems and so just don't
, just don't.

(48:57):
You know anything with privateparts, anything with.
You know anything that you need.
You know, hey, this girl's hot,this guy's hot, you know any of
that kind of stuff.
Like, just be conscious andthink about how you would feel
if someone was putting thatabout you.
So it's just always that quickcheck.
And I'm going to do a quick talkjust about humor in general,
because you know a lot of peopleare figuring out humor and

(49:19):
there's sometimes, you knowhumor is one of those things
that you know it's funny.
When everybody feels it's funny,it can be, you know, if one
person is sort of getting takendown by another person, that's
when you know humor can get alittle bit sketchy.
So always be thinking about itLike, does this get this guy or
girl?
You know that I'm teasing.
Do they know that I still valueand love them, you know?

(49:39):
Or is this going to take them toa part where they're going to
be feeling this later, you know,and just just thinking it
through ahead of time, and ifyou've done something, you've
crossed a line and someone's letyou know also apologizing, like
actually going through thosesteps, you know, taking it down
and being like, hey, I'm sorry,actually I didn't think about
that, I was just trying to befunny.
But you know what I'm going tothink about this again in the
future, because if this is askill that we all need to have,

(50:01):
is how do we communicate onlinewith each other and, you know,
how do we make sure that whatwe're sharing with each other is
going to lift us up and connectus more rather than, you know,
make somebody feel like lessthan, and so being conscious of
that type of communication canbe really powerful.
And also, just honestly, peopleare going to like you more,
they're going to want to spendmore time with you if you're
making them feel better ratherthan if you're making them feel

(50:22):
worse.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Right, I'm going to take a short break from the
conversation with Katrina togive a shout out to Darren
Morrison and Memory Keeper.
You've heard Memory Keepermentioned a couple of times here
in our discussion and, since weare being more cognitive of

(50:44):
where we are placing ourpictures and how we are
representing ourselves and whomight be out there with our best
interests not at heart when itcomes to the photos and things
that we are posting, platformslike Memory Keeper
kprmemorykeepercom could be agreat avenue for you to pursue,

(51:06):
and my buddy, darren Morrison,he's involved with Memory Keeper
.
It's essentially a safe place,safe, private place for your
team's legacy to stay.
It's, it's essentially a safeplace, safe, private place for
your team's legacy to stay, youknow, to remember the year, to,
to remember the events, to sharepictures, uh, videos, et cetera
, uh, within an environment thatyou control.
Uh, when it comes to hockeyteams, it's also a great place,

(51:29):
uh for fundraising, to use as afundraising platform and uh, and
there's lots of good things togo with that.
So, uh, darren Morrison, wouldlove to help you out if you're
interested in a fundraisingplatform, a place to keep your
pictures, videos and stuff safein a community that you control
and protect the legacy of yourteam, then that may be something
you want to talk to him about,and that's at 403-998-8026.

(51:52):
Or darrenmorrison, atmemorykeepercom.
That's kprcom.
Again, he'd be happy to have adiscussion with you.
I have no affiliation withMemory Keeper.
It just seems like they'redoing good things there and if
this is something that speaks toyou, by all means I'm willing
to connect people with goodproducts who are wanting to do
things.
So, uh, yes, uh, lots of goodstuff here.

(52:15):
So let's get back to theconversation with Katrina German
.
Thank you, the nudity thing Ithink we got to touch on, um, I
mean, I'm just trying to thinkabout my audience.
I mean there are some younglisteners, but like there's a
real thing and I know more fromthe male side, so I can't speak

(52:37):
to the female side.
I'm sure it must exist in somecapacity, but I will just speak
through my own experience withwho I've been chatting with,
like some of these guys, some ofthese hockey players I don't
know, I don't really know if itmatters where they play or how.
You know how high up they arein the status quo of these
things, but they become let'scall them I don't know targets,

(53:00):
but not targets in a negativeway.
Like like, females will seekthem out like it's.
It's portrayed a lot I have toexplain this better.
It's portrayed a lot that thatthe boys will be trying to get
photos, these, these, thesepictures from girls, right, like
Like, send me this, send methat, and that's been kind of
talked about.
I think that's been seen on,you know on on, uh, you know in
the news outlets, right, thatthis thing can happen, but

(53:22):
there's many occasions wherethis is not, they're not seeking
it, that it actually just getsdelivered, right.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Like.
So in that scenario, well,first of all, like yes, I
appreciate you saying that, likedon't ask.
Like you really need to bereally cognizant of that, as
much as everything in your bodyis telling you that you want to
see this and you want to ask,like you have to find this
boundary because there is like alegal issue that's happening
there.
But what does if we can getpast that?

(53:50):
Like what happens if somebodysends you something that you
never necessarily asked for?
Like what's the protocol?

Speaker 1 (53:58):
You know, I think ultimately you can just ignore
it, right, you know, or deleteit or I don't.
You know, whatever it'ssomething you're happy with,
great, but it's, you know, uh,that's probably going to happen
where people are just going tosend some things out.
So I want to come back and talkabout privacy a little bit.
You know down the road abouthow to set those types.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Can I just ask you one question real quick, like is
that is that and I knowprobably a 15, 16 year old isn't
thinking about like legal courtsystem stuff but having that on
your phone, even if you didn'task for it, and somebody sent it
to you, like what you'retalking about, that is some type
of like you've broken some typeof law, correct?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
I would.
I would absolutely deleteanything that's ahead that
appears to have anybody underthe age of 18.
Absolutely, I just wouldn'teven touch it, I wouldn't even
fool with it.
You know, that's just it'ssomething that you know, it's
that important and can have someserious repercussions.
And for me, the thing is isactually there's actually a
fairly big thing going on forCanadian youth and a few months

(54:51):
ago it hit the news um, it'scalled sextortion and uh, so
it's actually people from othercountries who are coming in
imposing or not even othercountries could be someone local
, but who are coming in imposingas somebody that you may think
you know, or somebody who'sattracted to you, or whatever
the case is.
they may send a few of their ownnudes, you know, but they're
probably not their own you know,know pictures and then request

(55:14):
one in return, and so a lot ofyoung people have been kind of,
you know, coerced into I'm goingto share this, or you know we
can.
Even you know, well, let's dothis extortion for now, so they
share it and then I all of asudden, you know this person's
like, I am going to share thiswith everybody at your school,
or I'm going to share this withyour mom, you know, if you don't

(55:35):
give me this kind of money, andthere's actually been suicides
that have come out of that kindof an issue.
So sexortion is actually apretty big thing that's
targeting a lot of NorthAmerican youth.
This can also just happenbetween relationships, right?
You know it's very rare thatyou know a teenage relationship
lasts into adulthood, that youknow a teenage relationship
lasts into adulthood, and youknow, and so if people are even

(55:56):
sharing things in, you know,when they're young with their
partner, you know they're, youknow something they're dating,
you know trusting, that that'snot going to go and you know a
couple friends of that person isnot going to see that picture
and stuff is a little naive.
So you know, do not share nudepictures of yourself unless
you're just planning to havethem online and you're
comfortable with that.
You know to that.

(56:19):
You know to that other leveltoo, around the idea of privacy,
like privacy is a prettymassive area.
So you're spending some timeand actually being like I don't
want to receive any messagesfrom people I don't know or I
don't follow.
You know things like that.
I'm also going to say, just intothe teams area I work I do a
lot of work with Memory Keeper.
Say, just into the teams area Iwork I do a lot of work with
Memory Keeper.
It's Memory KPR, and they workwith sports teams because a lot

(56:42):
of people were even puttingpictures up and she uses the
example.
Jessica McNaughton is her name,the founder.
She took over a girlsvolleyball Facebook page and,
within a couple days, had about100 requests of men from around
North America who had noconnection to the team
whatsoever, who are trying togrow, you know, trying to join
this private group of volleyballyoung volleyball women, and so,
basically, like social media isjust, you know, it's a real

(57:05):
magnet for people who are maybe,you know, not not thinking the
right.
You know the ways we'd like forpeople to be taking, you know
respecting our yeah and uh, so.
So basically, you know, memorykeeper, that's what they do is
actually create a platform forteams to share and other groups
to share who have private thingslike that.
You know you don't want yourdata being used and all that

(57:25):
kind of stuff, but you can stillhave this capsule where you're
sharing all this informationwith other teammates and you
know, and grandmas and grandpasthat are approved and things
like that, but it's not actuallylike allowing kind of these,
these images and such to get outbeyond, uh, beyond the team and
so yeah, so you know, andthere's, you know, a lot of
issues like that.
And again, coming to thinkingabout it, you know some of the

(57:46):
people are also.
They want to go professional,they want to own their own image
and to be thinking about that.
They don't want, you know,someone's mom to have a bad
picture of them.
You know, like you know, thatgoing around the internet, as
they've, you know, wiped out onthe on the you know, or
something like that.
You know they want to be owningtheir own image and what
they're putting online with theidea that that'll have, you know
, future influencer kind ofbenefits and uh.

(58:08):
So you know that's anotherthing that you know memory
keeper can do is to help, isjust to kind of keep that
contained so that people canreally own their own online
images.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Right.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah, the yeah.
So I mean there's, there is somebad actors, I don't know.
I choose.
I choose to perceive the worldthrough good intentions.
You know, like that's the lensthat I consciously pick.
But you know, you can't benaive about it either.
You know, like there is, thereis some people out there that
don't have great intentions anduh, and it's super sad,
especially with the youth today,that we do have to be vigilant

(58:40):
with some of that stuff.
Uh for sure, crazy.
I don't have daughters.
I have three boys and, uh, theboys are, the boys are
challenging enough.
I could imagine how my, how mymale brain would be working if I
was having teenage daughters inmy life.
But yeah, can we talk about thebullying?
And this is maybe like, notnecessarily what you're doing,

(59:03):
but like I'm going to give youan acronym that at my boys'
elementary school they wereusing and obviously with good
intentions, and it was WITS washow they wanted people to deal
with bullying, and the W waswalk away, the I was ignore, the
T was talk it out and the w waswalk away, the I was ignore,
the t was talk it out and the swas seek help.
And I never liked it from theget-go like that.
Your first response is to walkaway.
Your second response is toignore.

(59:25):
The third is to talk it outlike that.
And then the fourth is seekhelp.
It was just, I don't know.
It's like.
It's such a victim mentality,like right from the start, you
know and and not even addressingat all of like, why does this
make you feel this way?
Which I think is like the firstquestion you should ask.
You know, like, uh, I'm justgoing to bounce into like a
hockey locker room scenario.
Like I remember I got to tradea lot.

(59:47):
I mean, I was, uh, I was asuitcase, as people would call
it.
So I played on a lot ofdifferent teams and and every
time you walk into a newenvironment, it's a group of
guys that a lot of times, you'venever met before.
You know, sometimes you know oneor two guys and for me, the
time that I knew that I wasaccepted and that I was welcomed
was when I got ripped on.
Okay, yeah, yeah, like they, Iwas accepted, they would make

(01:00:07):
fun of whatever right and hockey, and so, like, that's totally
like the culture that I grow upin and it it was, like you know,
it kind of helped you in someways because, like, the less
that did affect you, thestronger you were, in whatever
capacity, right On the ice, office, you know, in social
situations, if I can be thefirst to laugh at myself or the
first to recognize some type ofyou know handicap, let's say it,

(01:00:28):
or whatever it is right, likethen I do become a little bit
more bulletproof, you know, andso that was kind of how I was
raised, and then to see thisbeing like walk away, ignore it,
talk it out, and nobody talkingabout the infrastructure, about
why this is so impactful foryou.
Like there's a few things thatconcern me about that.
Like how do you do you thinkthat we're talking today's youth
improperly?
Like do we're making themvictims?

(01:00:48):
Do you think that's a piece ofit?

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think resilience is just
a huge, massive question, nomatter what right, no matter
youth, or youth or adults, andyou know the idea of, yeah, why
do I feel that way?
I also think just because ouryouth, just almost everything
that happens, you know, is Ifind like I remember being a
teenager, like it was yesterday.

(01:01:11):
I remember almost every momentof it, you know, because it's
just so impactful.
You know, compared to my 30swere a blur, I don't know, but
it's, it's.
It's one of those things whereyou know that type of age,
everything can have such animpact.
And so if you have, you know,the internal support systems to
be like, oh, haha, you know,like I'm one of the guys you

(01:01:32):
know, or whatever you know, itis that you're able to do that,
but there's some people whodon't have that right.
So I think you know it's reallyabout, yeah, the intention
behind it, as you perceive it,and then you're right, how did
that impact me?
And then, okay, what am I goingto?
You know, is this something I'mgoing to let get to me, or is

(01:01:55):
this just like a whatever youknow kind of thing?
And so, yeah, like I'm not abullying expert by any means,
but it is one of those thingsfor me that I just think
resilience in general and beingable to come back from these
things is incredibly important,but it'd also be nice if you
know the original trigger wasn'thappening in the first place
yeah, no, yeah, I agree, right,I mean it's, I'm totally with
you on that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
it's like, like, let let's totally deal with the side
of like why are you bullying?
Like what is the?
I mean like, let's deal withthe bully for sure.
But I think that what to me, itseems like there's been so much
emphasis on that being bad,that we're not enabling or
empowering people with what theycan do about it in a way that
actually makes them feel likegood and empowered.

(01:02:32):
You know, one of the things wetalk about my program is is FOPO
, and that's still sold in fromMichael Gervais, but he talks
about fear of other people'sopinion.
Like that is such a big thingfor people, right, like, what do
other people think?
And then, if we can actuallybreak that down in times when
we're bored without we'rewithout our phone, right, we
have a little time, see that.
I mean, what does it like?
Why do we care?
You know, why do we care aboutsomeone that we don't know what

(01:02:54):
they think or what they're goingto say?
Like, how does that impact us?
And why would?
Why should it?
Yeah, I mean, there's so manythings to unpack with that that
I do get passionate about, but I, I do think in a teenage head
or even an adult head, like themore comfortable you can be with
yourself, the less, the lesspenetrable you are.
You know, really, at the end ofthe day, learn to laugh at

(01:03:15):
yourself, learn to have thoseconversations right, learn to
accept some things that aren'tperfect.
You know, and I think that'smaybe where the social media
aspect comes from, because it isa highlight reel generally all
the time.
And you know, it is not real ina lot of capacities, yet I think
maybe in the teenage brain itreally does seem real.

(01:03:37):
you, know that's all you'reseeing, right, yeah, so that is
dangerous, right, because we'renot, you know, I mean, we're
definitely not.
And uh, you know you're not,I'm not, nobody is.
And I think the the more thatwe can like sometimes, like, for
instance, like I'll putsomething stupid on online, like
that doesn't make me look good.
That's like a a one take thingthat I stutter over a word or

(01:03:57):
whatever and I misplace it, andit's on purpose.
It's totally on purpose.
I didn't try to make themistake.
It wasn't like I was trying tolook bad or have bad lighting
and have my nose look big orwhatever, but it's like.
You know what?
That's okay.
It's okay.
Life goes on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Yeah, and the okay yeah, it's okay right.
Life goes on, yeah, and youknow the amount of work it takes
to create content right if youhave a mistake, just sometimes
like yeah, and you know, I thinkpersonal test and I'm only
relaying that because, like thatis, that is a conscious choice
that you can make out there,whether you're 15 or 16.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Like you can be the one in the post to post a stupid
picture, yes, like why wait forthe bully?
Or like I mean, if you'vealready done it and you've had
the laugh, it's like does itmatter if somebody puts you out
on there and then you have pinkshorts on the one day and you
didn't want to wear them?
You know, it's like, I don'tknow, it's just like we can kind
of take it the bull by thehorns in some capacity.
Right, and we can, we canexperiment with that and we can

(01:04:50):
feel good about how we'reexperiment with it and we're
putting ourselves in a powerfulspot.
So you know, make consciouschoices, that's one of my things
.
Own your online image is one ofmy things now right, be real, be
real, yes, uh, yeah, we covereda lot, I think.
Uh, I think we're probably good.
Is there anything you?
Is there anything we haven'tcovered that you want to, that

(01:05:12):
you want to talk about or share?

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
yeah, no, no.
I think the big thing is, youknow, just the fact that people
have heard this and I'm startingto think about it.
That's the first step, right,it's just awareness that this is
an issue and, uh, and a lot ofpeople don't realize it because
it's just part of how their daygoes.
So everybody who's listened tothis podcast has already passed.
They're in a better spot.
You know, and, if you want to,there's a lot of trainings out

(01:05:34):
there at Ethical Digital we'vegot training about.
You know the mental healthpiece around.
You know parenting around.
You know we have some stuff forteachers.
You know doing more for hockey.
You know that kind of thing andjust understanding to your point
yourself, understanding yourexperience with the online space
and really understanding thatyou need to own that experience

(01:05:55):
because you know, whatever thatlooks like, if you want to own
your online image or if you wantto decrease the amount of time
you're online you know it'sgoing to be different for every
person and just but being awareof it, understanding and
thinking about yourself, likegoing inside regularly and being
like, okay, I just got off of awhoops two hours.
You know, I didn't mean to that, just like went away.
How do I feel right now?
How does that make me feel?

(01:06:16):
And being like, okay, I justgot off of a whoops two hours
you know, I didn't mean to thatjust like went away.
How do I feel right now?
How does that make me feel?
And being real with yourselfand making changes from there is
going to be one of your best,best, best things that you can
do for yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
I love it.
Yeah, and I think, as a familyif I'll just add in there as far
as from an idea is to have likea collaborative approach to it,
like when when I don't know howit works in your house or
whatever, but like if there'sanything that I'm trying to
enforce or lay down, there'smassive resistance there.
If there hasn't been buying,it's just like in a company, I
think you know.
But if we're all at the tabletogether and it's like hey, how

(01:06:44):
do we feel as a family?
Like, is this working?
Like, do we all feelcomfortable with how much time
we're spending on the phone, arewe connected enough?
And generally, there's sometype of a, an agreement that
will be made right.
And then, when you're all inagreement with what it is that
you want to do, then you areable to hold each other
accountable.
Like the space is now is a goodone, it's a, it's a, it's a
healthy one right, because we'reactually looking for support

(01:07:05):
within that scenario.
So you know, I mean of courseeveryone listening here has kids
that are different ages andmaybe would have a different
voice at the table, but I dothink like having that voice and
allowing them to have the voiceand having a game plan together
is much easier than mom or dadjust trying to.
You've been on your phone toolong.
What do you?
Why don't you go?
You know that kind of stuff.
It's just becomes this right.

(01:07:25):
But if the kids said, hey, yeah, I don't want to be on my phone
this much, I think,collectively, we should play
more games together at night.
You know this side or the other, now it's a team and I think
the team and the connection isis a much.
Uh, what gives you a betterchance of success?
Let's put it that way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
I love it.
I think that's excellent,excellent advice.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Well, thank you, katrina, for coming on and
sharing your story.
It's not going anywhere anytimesoon.
You know, as uh, uh, as you'vetalked about, like, this is here
to stay the internet and ourinvolvement in it, and if we can
be conscious about the choiceswe make and recognize what type
of people we want to be withinit, I think, hopefully, we've
started that conversation.
So, thanks so much for beinghere with us.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Thank you, Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Thank you so much for listening to the episode with
Katrina.
I hope you have a betterunderstanding of social media,
its impacts on you and alsophone use in general.
I think there's a lot of goodpoints and takeaways there.
Hopefully some discussions tobe had about usage and how to
use and all the rest of that.
Remember, in order to be yourbest, you need to control what

(01:08:34):
you can control, and your timeis one of the most valuable
things that you have availableto you, so do not squander it.
Your attention is valuable andpeople pay for it, so remind
yourself that you taking care ofyour time is how to put money
in your own pockets and to takeyour development seriously.
So best of luck with that.

(01:08:56):
Really really appreciate youbeing with us, as always, and
until next time, play hard andkeep your head up.