EP.148 - Scott Niedermeyer on Team Success, Personal Growth, and Mastering Defensive Play - Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
That's when I really became the best player I could,
when I understood the thingsJacques was trying to teach me
as far as not giving up chancesto the other team, being smart
with when you joined the offenseand tried to create offense,
and I think why I don't think Iknow it made me a very you know,
a better player going forwardand a much more valuable player
to my teams from there on, inthat I could kind of be trusted,

(00:23):
be responsible whether we're upby a goal, down by a goal, you
know, in the game seven of aStanley Cup playoff game.
I became a better playerbecause of what Jacques taught
me.
It wasn't easy, it was afrustrating process to go
through, but probably the mostimportant thing that happened to
me.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
That was Hockey Hall of Fame defenseman Scott
Niedermeyer, and you arelistening to episode 148 of the
Up my Hockey Podcast with JasonPadolan.
Welcome to Up my Hockey withJason Padolan, where we

(01:01):
deconstruct the NHL journey,discuss what it takes to make it
and have a few laughs along theway.
I'm your host, Jason Padolan, a31st overall draft pick who
played 41 NHL games but thoughthe was destined for a thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hey there, welcome to, orwelcome back to, the Up my

(01:25):
Hockey podcast with JasonPadolan.
I am your host, Jason Padolan,and you're here for episode 147,
and today's a good one, One ofthe best ones as far as somebody
who has made a huge impact onthe game over their career, A
hockey hall of famer by the nameof Scott Niedermeyer.

(01:45):
He is one of these guys that thetrue introduction is so long it
kind of takes your breath away.
But I think we need to do itfor two reasons One, because his
resume is so special.
What he accomplished in thegame is absolutely remarkable.
But two, and maybe some of youare going to be rattled by this,

(02:06):
but we don't talk about much ofhis resume at all.
Like I don't talk about hisStanley Cups, I don't talk about
his Norris Trophy, I don't talkabout the Olympic golds.
We have a conversation an up myhockey conversation about
hockey, about his adversity,about his adversity, about his

(02:26):
insights, about his lessons, sokind of flipped the table on him
.
He said after we stopped theconversation that there was a
lot of questions that he'd neverbeen asked before and he really
enjoyed the conversation.
So I'm glad it was a breath offresh air for him.
And if you are, you knowsomebody who follows Scott
Niedermeyer or a fan of him,perhaps this will be a very new

(02:48):
discussion for you to listen to,a very new type of interview
for him, and maybe we'll findout a few things that you never
knew before.
And for those of you who wouldlike to know about you know
where his favorite place to eaton the road is or what his
favorite memory of an Olympicgold is.
There are many, manyconversations out there that I'm
sure you can find on podcaststo hear those stories.

(03:10):
But yeah, let's give it a whirlhere to try and share with you
where this guy is at.
He was a Camelot's Blazeroriginally, where he won a
Memorial Cup and where he wasalso drafted third overall from
that organization.
He also won a World Junior GoldMedal as a junior there playing

(03:31):
for Kamloops.
He has a World Cup Championshipunder his belt.
That's very similar for some ofyou younger listeners to the
Four Nations Cup that's comingup here.
It would be a best-on-besttournament outside of an Olympic
Games.
He won gold at the WorldChampionships with Canada.
He won two Olympic gold medals.
He won four Stanley Cups threewith New Jersey where he was

(03:54):
captain, and one with Anaheimwhere he was also a captain.
He has won a Conn Smythe, themost valuable player of the
playoffs.
He has won a Norris Trophy asthe best defenseman in the NHL.
He was also a runner-up twotimes for that award.
He was a first-team all-starthree times, a second-team
all-star one time.
He played in six all-star gamesand he is also a member of the

(04:19):
Hockey Hall of Fame.
Now, that's a mouthful.
That is a very accomplishedindividual and if you never had
a chance to see him play, he wasone of the best skaters you
will ever see.
Really, really fun to watchskate.
He also had a brother that Iplayed with, Robbie Niedermeyer,
who was also a very, very highdraft pick who played in Florida

(04:40):
and had a long NHL careerhimself.
So obviously there's someathleticism in that family,
hailing from Cranbrook BC.
So I came across as far as likethe background.
I didn't ever knew Scott orplayed with him, but he does
live in Penticton now and he isinvolved with the Okanagan
Hockey Academy.
That's where one of his sonsplays and he was on the bench

(05:02):
during one of the games whichwas funny to see, Scott
Niedermeyer just kind of simplyopening a door for the players
there at the U-17 prep or maybeit's U-18, that he was involved
with.
And yeah, I was laughing undermy breath.
I was wondering if anyone inthe crowd knew that a two-time
gold medalist, Norris Trophywinner, was opening the gate

(05:25):
across the ice surface there.
But anyway, Scott is veryunder-assuming.
He's super mellow, super chill,very humble, very gracious and
it was fun having a chat withhim.
So I will stop with theintroduction.
I know you now, if you didn'tbefore know who Scott
Niedermeyer is, and it was areally pleasure and a blessing

(05:46):
to have him on.
So I hope you enjoy myconversation with hockey hall of
famer scott niedermeyer.
All right, here we are, up myhockey podcast.
I have no idea what episode thisis needs, but welcome to the up
my hockey podcast, scottniedermeyer thank you appreciate
it for for a guy as asacclaimed as you are, you're one

(06:08):
of the easiest guys to actuallyhook up and get on to this.
So I want to.
I want to thank you for that.
It was an opinion.
Yes, sometimes hockey players,you know how we can be.
It's it's tough to track themdown trust me, you just done it
all.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
However, this this worked out smoothly.
I could be pretty difficultsometimes, so whatever happened,
it went smoothly.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
That was great, so awesome, uh yeah, we, we don't
really have a connection, but Idon't know, if you know, I
played with your brother alittle bit in florida, so like I
do have a connection to rob anduh and through that kind of,
have been following your, yourfamily from uh from a distance.
So it was.
It was pretty cool to to befrom western canada, whl gradss

(06:46):
and to watch what you guys wereable to do, so congratulations
on that.
What's Rob doing these days?

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, he's actually moved back to Cranbrook.
He's a farmer, now a rancher.
He's got about 70 head ofcattle out on a 500 acre piece
of property and enjoying it.
He loves it, loves to beoutside, loves animals, so he's
doing well.
Three young daughters a fairbit of soccer in his life.
They're soccer players, so he'sout there coaching a bit of
soccer.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Something about that doesn't surprise me at all.
That he's out on a farm with 70head of cattle that's super
cool.
I'm sure he's happy happy ashappy can be.
Yeah, for sure that's wild.
Maybe we'll just start there.
You mean, I said that I don'twant to like break down your
career, but I think you knowyour journey is is super
relevant to probably theperspective you have and and

(07:32):
what you're doing now as a coachand helping your own sons.
You know, go through the game,uh, kamloops.
You know it.
There's been so many kamloopsblazer guests on my show that
I'm sure maybe some of mylisteners are getting sick of it
.
But it's pretty wild, quitefrankly, like how good that team
was for so long and the successthat they had and how so many

(07:52):
players from that team went onand had great success other
places.
How did you get involved withthe Blazers?
I guess you were a list guybecause the draft didn't exist
then.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
No, that's right, there was um.
You know, I didn't know a lotabout the whl really.
Um, growing up in cranbrook bcwe had junior b hockey there and
that's that's what I watched,that was what the older guys
were playing and, um, I thinkmaybe I'd been to a game, maybe
down in spokane, been to a whlgame down there at some point.
But uh, you know, when timekind of rolled around I think I

(08:27):
bounced around a couple lists,you know, when I was 14, 15,
kind of thing on and off, andended up on Kamloops list.
The summer before I could goplay, bob Brown and Ken
Hitchcock came down to Cranbrookto visit and kind of, you know
I guess, sell their program andtalk about what they can do and

(08:48):
have done, and I think that didimpress my parents.
You know it was a differentworld back then.
We didn't really know a wholelot.
We know that they'd had goodteams there, good players had
come through Kamloops prior tothat time and at that point my
parents seem sold on it andended up going there with
another friend from Cranbrook,jarrett Bocay.

(09:09):
We both took off at 16 yearsold to go play in Kamloops.
So that was kind of nice tohave someone along heading off
into a new adventure.
So, and his dad actually back todevelopment.
His dad was our coach prettymuch all the way through minor
hockey.
You know we were lucky to havehim.
He was a gym teacher in thehigh school, you know, and just
a real good coach, made it fun,taught us a lot about the game

(09:32):
and you know the right values.
I think is probably maybe themost common thread that I was
fortunate to be part of withcoaches was, you know, sort of
team first, play for yourteammates, you know, do what you
can to help them, to help theteam, and that was sort of
always the the approach that Iwas involved in playing for
different teams.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, that's so, so, but I didn't realize you, you,
you did come with with Bocabecause he, I mean, I know, you
know, but he's part of he's partof an agency now and he was, he
was a guest on the, on theprogram as well.
So I did.
Okay, he's a better storytellerthan me, so yeah well, he was a
lot of fun to chat with.
Yeah, no, he and he's doing bigthings right now.
They're doing great there.
So you stepped in at 16 and andhad a heck of a season.

(10:19):
You know where you.
You said you hopped on and offsome lists.
You know it's it's nice to kindof go back to that time and and
you know now a hockey hall offamer and a Norris trophy winner
.
You know, back then you were akid from Cranbrook who was just
playing hockey.
Like, were you just playinghockey?
Were you, were you crushingeverywhere you were going at
that point, like, what was thetrajectory like for you at that

(10:42):
time?
If you could look back at that,yeah, I mean no, for sure.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I mean we, you know I was doing well.
You know I was probably one ofthe better players on our team.
I, you know, could always skatewell.
That always helped me, you know, especially at a young age.
You know when you can skate,you know it gives you a big
advantage out there.
So that was always a strengthof mine.
So I knew I could have successplaying hockey, at least in the

(11:06):
level I was at.
You know, playing minor hockeyin Cranbrook and traveling
around just a little bit.
We did mainly in the Kootenaysof BC and over to southern
Alberta, lethbridge, medicineHat and Calgary.
That was kind of our world, ourhockey world.
So, you know, I had someconfidence.
I knew I had some talent toplay hockey.
Um, I didn't really know whatthat meant to go play in the WHL

(11:28):
, though In my, in my mind, itseemed it was just a part of a
small little local world and Iwas having success there.
And did that mean I could goplay in the WHL?
I wasn't really sure.
Um, you know, so when I endedup going there, um, you know,
and having a bit of success, wehad a good veteran team, a lot
of the other young guysunfortunately didn't see a lot
of ice time as 16-year-olds.

(11:49):
We actually had, I think, fiveor six 16-year-olds at my year
and a lot of them didn't play awhole lot and I was fortunate
that I did get to play.
I think that's important, youknow, to be on the ice, to be
playing, to have experiences,good and bad, to learn and
become a better player, right.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
The idea there of like going to Kamloops as a
16-year-old.
I mean, I went to Spokane as a16-year-old too and it is a
whole.
It's a whole new world and it'sa whole new life really, and
that transition can bechallenging in a lot of ways.
Uh, as you said, the other fourof you weren't playing very

(12:29):
much, which makes it that muchmore challenging.
What was your biggest challengethat year from a personal
perspective?
You going to a, to a new citylike that at such a young age
that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I mean, I think it was just hard moving away from
home for the first time.
I think that's probably whatstands out.
I think I was fortunate in thesense that I got to, you know,
play and feel a part of it.
I imagine for those young guysthe other young guys that I was
with that weren't playing asmuch that's just an extra
challenge to kind of deal withand that would be tough because
they were the best players ontheir teams, you know, the year

(12:59):
before and all of a sudden youknow they're in and out of the
lineup and watching some hockeygames and that is a tough
position to be in to kind ofkeep that excitement, enthusiasm
for playing the game and thatpassion for it not get
discouraged, at least for anylength of time.
It's going to be hard over theshort time to not get

(13:20):
discouraged, but I was fortunate, probably just moving away from
home to not get discouraged,but I was fortunate, probably
just moving away from home.
Like I said, moving away with agood friend of mine I think
helped a lot.
You know that we kind of wentthere together and that that
eased the transition for sure.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
So for a lot, of, a lot of guys that I've had on
this, I mean and Jerome XBlazier was one of them like the
, the biggest adversity that hefelt, that he faced, when he
really looked back on everything, was his 16 year old year in
Kamloops.
You know like he thought aboutleaving, thought about quitting.
You know there was all thesekind of ideas because he he
didn't play a lot at 16 and itwas so new, was there.
It doesn't sound like your 16year old year was that?

(13:55):
Was that traumatic?
If you did look back now at theentirety of your career, what
was the, what was the hardestpoint for you to get through?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, no, I was fortunate.
My 16-year-old year went verysmoothly all things considered.
You know, for most players thatage there is going to be some
bumps in the road.
It's a big step and I wasfortunate to play with, you know
, an older defenseman that hadbeen in the league, a big,
strong guy.
You know we had other veteransback on the blue line, so it was
a pretty good spot for me tokind of just slide in and do

(14:27):
what I could out on the ice.
Um, I would probably say for meit was probably about three or
four years into my NHL careerwhere I probably had had sort of
the biggest challenge and themost frustration, um, with the
game.
Jacques Lemaire was the coach inNew Jersey at the time.
You know the first couple ofyears, his second year in New

(14:49):
Jersey, we ended up winning aStanley Cup and I think that was
my third season in the NHL.
It was a shortened season witha lockout, you know.
So in those first few yearsyou're excited to be there.
You're enjoying every second ofit.
Then you win a Stanley Cup.
I mean, you know, know, thingsare just cruising along pretty
darn good, you know reallybetter than most people, for
sure, obviously, and um, youknow, after that, jock kept, you

(15:13):
know, demanding playing acertain way and it was a little
different than I had in my mind.
You know, a defense first kindof approach and you know I was
like every kid wanting to scoregoals and get points.
That was sort of what I wantedto do.
And you know I was like everykid wanting to score goals and
get points.
That was sort of what I wantedto do.
And you know, so we, you know,kind of butted heads a bit.
I was trying to do play acertain way and he had different
ideas.
And there was probably astretch for a couple of years

(15:34):
where, you know, I was beingpretty stubborn and he obviously
knew what he was talking aboutso he wasn't going to change his
mind.
No-transcript, no-transcript.

(16:06):
But probably the most important, that's when I really became,
you know, the best player Icould, when I understood the
things Jacques was trying toteach me as far as not giving up
chances to the other team,being smart with when you joined
the offense and tried to createoffense, and I think, well, I
don't think I know it made me avery, you know, a better player
going forward and a much morevaluable player to my teams from

(16:27):
there on, in that I could kindof be trusted, be responsible
whether we're up by a goal, downby a goal, you know, in the
game seven of a Stanley Cupplayoff game.
I became a better playerbecause of what Jacques taught
me.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
It wasn't easy, it was a frustrating process to go
through, um, but probably themost important thing that that
happened to me yeah, I mean, Ithink that is really valuable
insight there, just for everyonelistening, because here you are
not a hockey hall of famer atthat point, right, but a future
one, and still obviously a veryaccomplished player.
To that point, a third overalldraft pick.

(17:01):
Somebody stepped into the nhldidn't, you know, be in the
minors at all and won a Stanleycup.
And now there's resistancebetween you and your coach about
the I really a player identity,a little bit of a crisis right,
about what you wanted to be andwhat he wanted you to be.
And boy, this happens all thetime.
I'm sure you see it, you know,on the levels with your son
right now, when I'm working withplayers, that's that's one of

(17:22):
the main things we talk about ishow do you provide the most
value and really understandingthat, uh, and wanting to adopt
it.
Yet there's massive amounts ofmental resistance when it comes
to that.
What for you, like, do youremember what that moment was as
far as the breakthrough was,where, like you, kind of just
let go?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
yeah, that that's a good question because because
when I look back on it now Ijust can't believe it took me a
year and a half, two years tosort of battle through all that,
to kind of get to a point whereI was like, okay, I kind of get
it now and let's kind of moveforward.
And maybe it wasn't just onemoment.
It probably was a gradual sortof progression of me just kind
of understanding it more andmore and starting to live it in

(18:05):
my game.
Um, you know, when I was on theice and maybe when, when I
started doing it more, you know,probably jock saw it and
probably maybe gave me a littlemore benefit of the doubt.
So it was probably a two-waystreet, just uh, in any
relationship you know, there'skind of managing it and figuring
it out, and I'm sure thatthat's kind of how it played out
.
So you know again, like I said,in hindsight it's hard to

(18:27):
believe that it took that long,and especially now that I know
how valuable, you know, thatkind of mindset and
understanding how to play thegame, to win, to help your team
have success, really is, I guesswhat the bottom line was there
and I wouldn't trade any of thisteam success we had for for any
sort of personal thing at all.
So, uh, I'm, I'm glad I hadJacques as a coach and went

(18:48):
through that and uh, you know,like I said, I think I think
probably without that, who knowsif I, if I, make it to the hall
of fame.
Really, I think a big reason Iprobably got selected to be in
the hall of fame was because ofbeing part of successful teams.
Um.
So you know, would that havehappened without that?
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, such an interesting I mean I love that
discussion, especially intoday's day and age where there
seems to be more of a focus onindividuality and that personal
success we can talk about.
You know the reasons why,probably ad nauseum right.
The highlight reel error I callit is you know you see these

(19:24):
goals and you know they havetheir Instagram feeds and, and
that's kind of what keepsfeeding the system.
And and and the team play thatyou said you were, you grew up
on, I think isn't quite asvalued in in in most situations.
Yet you know, here you aresaying that was one of the
biggest keys for you, yet youdid have your own personal
mental resistance with it at thetime, because we do want to

(19:48):
flourish and thrive in a waythat we think that we, that we
can and are able to.
I know that's been a discussion.
I've heard and I'm sure you'veobviously heard it numerous
times too about yourself thatyour numbers potentially could
have been a lot greater had youbeen in a different situation.
Maybe you don't have the fourcups, like you say, right?
Maybe you don't have some ofthese other things.

(20:09):
How do you like?
What's the advice for someoneout there trying to balance,
that you know, the idea ofmaking people better, being part
of a system, maybe taking yourfoot away or off the gas from
the personal production.
You know, do we?
How do we do that?

Speaker 1 (20:28):
yeah, I think that's just part of maturing.
You know, I would say I thinkthat was my journey through that
um, I was probably no different.
Like I said earlier about it,you know any other kid, I love
to score goals.
Um, the prettier they were, themore excited they were.
I mean all of that, right, Imean that's a great part of
hockey, for sure, um.
But at the same time, you knowwinning um.

(20:48):
You know, sitting on the bench,sitting in the dressing room,
with guys that you're going outto compete with and just looking
across and knowing that they'regoing to do everything they can
to help your team win Um, youknow if they're they're going to
stand up for you.
You know, as a smaller offensiveguy that played plenty of guys
that were out there to sort ofmake sure the other big guys
were staying out of my way, atleast partially, you know, and
and when you, when you kind ofhave that bond with your

(21:10):
teammates I don't know how manygoals personally could ever make
up for that type of experienceand when you win you just you
sit there and you realize likethat guy played with broken ribs
and you know he went out thereand he was blocking shots, and
you know doing things that werevery uncomfortable, yet helping
our team, and you know that thatto me, is the the pinnacle of

(21:31):
hockey um, maybe pinnacle oflife, I don't know in many sense
helping each other out workingtogether.
You know, as, as people, um,rather than individual things, I
mean, you know for sureindividual things are nice and
and when we do, you know theyfeel good, but they don't feel
as good as that type of successyou have with a group when

(21:51):
you're pulling, you know, on thesame rope, in the same
direction.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I love you saying that.
I mean, I think that's the bestpart about hockey.
When I look back on it, ofcourse, you know I love scoring
the goals and I love doing thatstuff, but the idea of hockey
and what it really allows you todo and allows you to learn when
it's done right, you know, likewhen it's done well, I just
there's nothing better than ateam sport like hockey.

(22:16):
When it comes to that, and Ithink to me it speaks to the I'm
going to use the word like male, masculine aspect of of us too,
right, like the brotherhood,the bond, like the physical
challenge.
I mean all these things thatthat, I think, speak, speak to
us on some innate level.
It allows you to come togetherand and and really feel like
you're, you're doing somethingspecial and, and you know, I've

(22:36):
never experienced on on thelevel you, you did, but you know
, going, going to a final in inany league, or you know, getting
getting there.
It's a journey, right?
And you got a bond and, and it'sa totally fun one to look back
on what?
uh, you talked about culture andand you talked about, you know,
the value system and thecoaches that you're grateful for
.
I'm sure that comes from fromyour parents as well, you know,

(22:56):
I I did know Robbie a little bitand you guys always seem to me
like a really grounded group.
You like yeah, I don't know howelse to say humble, grounded,
grateful, you know, and and Iimagine that comes from mom and
dad in some capacity uh, how,how, what's the message to
parents out there if that istrue, like, how much can we

(23:17):
instill in our kids to be thoseteam players that we're talking
about?
Yeah, I wish I knew that answerto that as a parent.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
But, um, yeah, I mean , I think it's just, you know,
stressing, you know the, thethings we've talked about about
you know, hard work, being agood teammate, you know those
types of things are all.
You know they're old messagesbut they're good messages.
I don't think they'll ever goout of style or you know we'll

(23:46):
ever find better ones.
You know my, my parents, my mom, you know my my parents.
My mom, you know, grew up on afarm, so she sort of had that
background of hard work and youknow needing to get things done.
And my dad was fromSaskatchewan as well and you
know they just really wanted usto go do our best, work as hard
as we could.
You know, be a good person, bea good teammate.
That was really their message,quite simple, you know, and,
like I said, I was fortunate tohave coaches, right from youth
hockey into junior hockey, thatreally were focused on that and

(24:08):
understood the importance ofthat to to help our team succeed
, um, and win hockey games, um.
So I was kind of always aroundthat and, uh, you know, part of
my personality, I think, helpswith that a little bit too.
I think there's some timeswhere I'm not really thinking
about sort of how to act or youknow, it's just kind of who, who
I am, Um, but I know I learneda lot from, yeah, parents,

(24:30):
coaches all the way through andI always had, you know, great,
great sort of leadership andmentorship right from right from
the get-go for sure.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Did mom or dad get too involved in the hockey side
of hockey?

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, I mean I think my dad was the manager of the
team, wasn't a coach, didn'tplay a whole lot of hockey
himself.
My mom was an athlete and youknow they were always on the
road and you know, on the roadtrips with us and helping out.
I think my mom actually was thepresident of minor hockey for a
little period of time inCranbrook and involved in that
fashion.
So I'm not really on the iceunless it was maybe on the pond

(25:04):
or different ways like that, butthey were involved, they were
helping, you know which, whichwas great, and we were fortunate
that that they did sort ofsupport us like they did for
sure yeah, oh, I guess where Iwas more going with.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
That is like breaking down your game or like helping
you know that type of stuff nothey.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I don't think they really felt they had the
knowledge to really do that.
Um, I think they could tell ifyou were working hard.
You know they knew if, if youwere working and skating and, um
, kind of ready to play, I mean,I think that was probably their
focus more than anything.
Not nothing technical, you know, really I don't remember ever
talking about much technicalwith my parents at all, but it

(25:45):
was about hard work and sort ofbeing ready to play and play
hard.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
How do you balance that now?
As a dad, I know your boys aregoing through, and I mean, of
course you know the game.
You can also see effort andwork.
Do you have a hard timebalancing how much to give?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, I mean I think about it a lot, you know,
because I could probably notstop talking for 24 hours a day
really about it if I wanted to.
You know you want to let themhave fun and you know, I think
at the end of the day, and evenlooking back on my experiences,
I think you know there is somuch out there now which is
great, but at the same time Ithink you just have to live

(26:23):
through stuff.
I mean I think you have to fail, you have to trip and fall and
pick yourself up and learnlessons.
You know kind of theold-fashioned way, the hard way,
um, you know.
So I, I think I've learned thatmaybe a little bit by just, you
know, being a parent.
You tell kids what to do or youknow and show them the the path
and they decide they're takingthe other one and they need to

(26:43):
learn the hard lessons.
So I don't think coaching, youknow, or you know, and hockey's
any different.
I think those are the powerfullessons over the long run and if
there's a consistent messagesand different things like that,
that kind of go along with thetruth they find for themselves,
it's probably probably the waythey get there yeah, yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Like me, I try my best to not offer anything
unless they ask for it, meaningmy own boys, like, not
necessarily my clients yeah.
Yet the one thing that I willoffer without them asking is
usually, if I do see some typeof an effort scenario, you know,
like that'll be.
That's sort of where mystandard is, and even that, like

(27:22):
I try and let them come to me,I'm not going to, I'm not going
to bark it down their throat,but that's my firm line.
And then the other one is like,yeah, I'd love to help, but I
don't really I don't want tofeel like they're being attacked
with, you know, tactical, youknow whatever trivia kind of
deal Is that?
Like for those out therelistening, did you feel that's a
good, a good recipe?
As far as you know your valuesystem as a family, I mean, I do

(27:45):
love, I, I compete in effortfor me or big ones, and those
are the ones that I kind of likeare non-negotiables.
Other than that, you know,there's lots of ways to play
hockey.
There's lots of differentavenues to play it, but if you
want to actually be a hockeyplayer, those are going to be my
standards and we'll figure outthe rest yeah, no, I think so, I
, you know, for there is lots ofdifferent ways to do it.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I mean, you know, especially in today's game,
different systems and you knowthere's so much more than there
was when I was a kid.
Um, and, and these guys havegrown up with it and they sort
of digest it more and thinkabout it more.
In that sense, Um, so I, Iwould say so I, and I think you
know it is hard to know the linefor sure.
I think some kids maybe willcome out and ask and talk.

(28:25):
My kids, some of them, are alittle like me, where they're a
bit quieter and maybe they wouldjust not even think about
asking and in their head they'rekind of thinking, well, maybe
dad will tell me something.
So you know what?
I really don't have an answerfor it.
I guess, in the big picture, ifI look at it, I think what I
would probably say is the mostimportant thing.

(28:45):
I mean, do they really want tobe out there and they're
enjoying it?
You know, and I think if theyare, you know the rest of that,
you know, giving them someadvice and encouraging them to
work hard.
I think that'll all be acceptedquite easily if they are out
there for their own reasons.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
ultimately, I would say Going to take one short
break from the podcast to talkto you about the umh 68.
Everything right now is umh 68invitational for me, uh, and
that means that we are sendingout invites right now for my

(29:19):
invitational event that iscoming to alberta, saskan,
manitoba and again in BritishColumbia.
We are looking and inviting thetop 68 players in their birth
year that we're covering forthese events and it is really an
Up my Hockey-based event.
It's focusing on thedevelopment of the person as

(29:39):
well as the hockey player.
I do believe in holisticdevelopment model.
I believe as we improve ourpersonal skills, we will improve
our athleticism and our hockeyskills and the mindset required
to be our best.
And that's what the weekend isall about bringing a best on
best experience to these youngathletes to provide an

(30:00):
opportunity for them to growtheir awareness, to grow the
idea of what high performancemeans and peak potential, and
they can walk away, uh, with newrelationships, hopefully, a new
, deeper passion for the game,uh, and an awesome, uh, an
awesome lessons that will lastuh their hockey journey and,
hopefully, a lifetime.
So, really excited about what'sgoing on.

(30:20):
We're doing the 2012s inAlberta, we are also doing the
2012s in Saskatchewan and we aredoing the 2011s in Manitoba,
and that's on top of the eventsthat I have previously ran in
British Columbia the 2012s we'recovering this year and 2011s in
Vernon, british Columbia.
So super exciting.
If you are a coach or if you area parent in any one of those

(30:42):
provinces, please check out mywebsite, upmyhockeycom.
Uh, if you feel your player issomeone who should be at this
event, or even if you justsimply want them at the event,
uh, and and would like to havetheir name put on the radar, by
all means, please do uh again.
Coaches, uh, managers out there, this is, uh, a hockey network.
We, we are out watching games,but we all know how much ground

(31:04):
there is to cover and we arerelying on a referral system,
networking system, people whoknow good players that need to
be invited to this.
So, if you are somebody whoknows a player who would love
the experience and it deservesan experience like this by all
means check out the website.
There's a section called thewatch list and all you have to
do is fill out.
Fill out the watch list andthen you are guaranteed to at

(31:27):
least be on the radar.
So those, those invites arecoming out now.
The events range from, you know, end of May through to the
middle end of June.
Be sure to watch for wherethey're coming for and it's a
really exciting developmentwithout my hockey and a way to
to celebrate the game, celebratethe players, celebrate the
players, showcase the playersand also to advance them as, uh,
as people and players.

(31:49):
So really exciting, realexciting for me to be involved
in.
So, without further ado, let'sbring you back to the
conversation with ScottNiedermeyer.
You mentioned being a goodteammate and that that's an old,
old message, uh, but one thatdoesn't get old, I like.

(32:11):
I like asking that question ina little different way and even
diving a little deeper on.
What does that mean?
Because I think, for a teenagerthat's listening to this right
now, or even a junior playerthat's listening to this right
now, might not really understandwhat that means.
Yeah, and I think it doesprobably mean different things
to different people, but whenyou say that, if you think of,
like one of the best teammatesyou ever had, or like what they
would encompass and what wouldqualify to get, to get them that

(32:34):
accolade from you, what wouldthey be doing?

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I think it's probably a broad thing.
Uh, you know a broad spectrumof things they would be doing
for sure, right, like, I think.
I guess, first and foremost, Iwould think you know when, the,
when the game's going on, I mean, are they committed to the team
in a sense of positional play,making good decisions?
You know, I guess I could argueagainst myself.

(32:57):
When I was a defenseman and youknow, maybe giving up two on
ones, or going offensive when I,when I shouldn't have, and
giving the other team chances, Iwould probably think my
teammates didn't think I was agreat teammate because I was,
you know, costing the team orpotentially costing the team by
the way I was playing, you know.
So I would sort of say that isone of the things.
Are you working and competingfor the team, you know?

(33:20):
And then the simple things ofthe support and encouragement
that you can give each other.
Uh, during a game, um, you know, after a goal, you go back and
you know, tap the goalie's padsand say, oh, don't worry about
it, you know, we'll go get it,get one back, and or a guy makes
a mistake and and you'resupportive and and, you know,
sticking together, you're not,you know, blaming someone else
for for your trials andtribulations on the ice I think

(33:43):
that's another one.
Yeah, you're in it together andyou've got to find ways to make
it work.
Support each other, help eachother.
So I think the list is long forsure.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Do you think when I'm dealing with younger athletes,
the first thing that comes outof their mouth is helping
somebody when they're down,which I mean, there's a a nice
virtue to that, right for sure,uh, and, and the sentiment is
nice I don't know how well thatactually works in real time uh,
you know if you've made amistake and you're on the bench
and you know somebody comes upand come on.

(34:15):
It depends on who you'retalking to, uh, but I won't
discourage somebody from tryingto help a teammate ever.
But, uh, but I do think, like,when I, when I challenge players
, sometimes I ask them, like howdo you feel that you make other
people better?
Right, like, so that's like anopen-ended question and I think
when we think along those lines,potentially the conversation

(34:35):
sort of changes.
Right, because that does meanon the ice.
Right, like, how do you makeyour wingers better, your d
partner better or your goaliebetter?
Right, by how you're playing?
Uh, in the dressing room, maybesome your behaviors, like, are
you making people feel goodabout themselves?
You know, in the room, off theice, are you complimentary of
their value to the team and whatthey offer?
And I think the celebrating ofsuccess is maybe the hardest one

(34:56):
in an environment like hockeywhere you're competing against
each other.
Maybe at a younger level whereyou actually you know you're all
trying to move up the chain.
You know the ladder.
Everyone's wanting ice Sure Toreally be authentic.
In your celebration of someoneelse doing well and
understanding that, you knowthat doesn't diminish your
opportunity to do well yourself.
Can you maybe speak to thesuccess of others?

(35:18):
One and how you, how youhandled that or how you would
suggest people you know navigatethat?
Yep.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
No, I think that's a great point in the reality of
being a young player, a youngkid, um, you know for sure
everybody's trying to move upand, you know, get on the power
play.
And so I think you're alwaysdealing with sort of those
feelings.
Um, I guess I would suggest, uh, you know, those feelings are
probably natural and part ofbeing a human, but maybe they

(35:44):
don't need to be the first onesthat come out of your mouth or
you act on.
You know there's times to.
You know, recognize that that'snot going to be constructive
for anybody, for me or the otherplayer or the team.
You know, and just kind of, youknow, get back out there when
you get the opportunity to doyour best.
That's ultimately what's goingto help you advance and and, uh,
you know, get where you want toget as an individual player,

(36:05):
which is a fair goal.
As an individual, you know tomove up and have success, um,
but I would say you know, havingsome of those good tendencies
of being a good teammate willbode well for you, as just as
much maybe as scoring goals.
Or you know, yeah, gettingpoints, um, you know, by coaches
will recognize that and say youknow what we really want this

(36:26):
guy in the team.
I know I've played with many ateammate that probably were on
the team much more for that thanthey were for their skills or
their goal scoring or pointtotals.
You know it was theirwillingness to support their
teammates, to stand up for theirteammates, you know, to do the
tough jobs.
Um, maybe their willingness tonot, you know complain when they

(36:47):
weren't on the first power playor they were on the fourth line
and they took pride in it andfound a way to feel good about
that type of role.
I mean I think those are justpart of maturing as a human and
a player and, um, for a youngkid to to get there does take
time.
That you're gonna, you knowit's.
It's a natural thing to to be abit selfish, I think for sure
no, I think that's a great point.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
The what luke bus is a client of mine.
He's now with wisconsin and hecame on on the on the show and
he talked about kind of our timetogether and one of the things
that I thought was really coolabout, uh, his last season was
one of the things he wanted towork on and this kid's a a great
kid, by the way, like fantastic.
And you can tell probably bywhat I'm going to tell you if to

(37:26):
have the self-awareness to tellme I felt, always felt, that I
was a good teammate, but Iwanted to be a great teammate,
yeah, right.
And so he never felt that hewas really selfish, but the one
thing that he wanted to work wason the bench, let's say, right,
and somebody else scored on thepower play or this type of
scenario where he would feel alittle bit bad about himself.
Super honest, right, like whatan honest thing to say and what

(37:49):
a mature thing to say.
But he didn't want to be likethat and he wanted to celebrate.
And so he, throughintentionality, right, and
through the idea of recognizingthat you know what, this doesn't
hurt my chances of successpersonally, it has no bearing on
it Right, like he got to the,the tangible, pragmatic
understanding of that and thenwas able to move forward, to be
authentically celebratory, youknow, with his, with his

(38:11):
teammate, and that was one ofthe biggest moves that he made
in his own game, which allowedhim to flourish on the ice, like
it was like really one of thebig breakthroughs, and so, like
when I, when I I love talkingabout personal development and
and again this idea of hockey asa team and what makes it so
great, you know, and and so hebecame a great teammate and, in

(38:32):
the process, scored more goals,go figure, I mean, in the
process was more productive, inthe process got to Wisconsin as
an NCAA, you know, a scholarshipad and um, and so I I just love
seeing that.
I think, with intention, youknow we can do that and so I
just wanted to, you know, add onto your point there that this
is something that you canimprove, you know you can be
better at it no, and I and Ithink you know in a in a bigger

(38:53):
sense even, like for mepersonally thinking sort of when
was I playing my best?

Speaker 1 (38:58):
it was sort of when you didn't have all this other
worry, and you're thinking aboutthat, you're thinking about
this.
You're kind of just going outthere, trusting all the work
you've done and just going toplay, and you know, playing for
your teammates, playing foryourself, and you know not, not
in that state of mind where yourmind's going in different
directions and kind ofdistracting you from from just
being out there in the moment.
For sure, so I think that mightbe connected there a little bit

(39:19):
, you know, with what, what hewent through?

Speaker 2 (39:20):
yeah, for sure you mentioned about what your boys
you know, with what he wentthrough.
Yeah, for sure you mentionedabout your boys, you know.
Do they want to be there andare they having fun?
And that's another layer ofhaving fun.
If we're worried about otherpeople, like the more layers we
can take away, right, and we'rejust in the moment playing a
game, you know, I think that'swhere the actual passion comes
from.
That's when we're just playing,when we're playing a sport,

(39:43):
especially now, that can justtake us away from what we all
want to be, which is the besthockey player we can be
consistently.
Uh, no for sure.
When you you talked about maybegiving up a two on one, right,
and then how that would reflectpotentially on you not being a
great teammate.
Yeah, now let's chat about that, because what an interesting

(40:04):
concept because you probablybeing your best in your
environment, you needed tocreate offense like if you
weren't you're also you alsoweren't being a great teammate,
right, because you weren't usingyeah, in my mind that was
probably yeah what I wasthinking about well, but for
real, right, and so now, even onteams, right, if somebody like
there's, I think there might bea fine line between being
courageous and then being risky.

(40:25):
You know, like, so how do we,you know, how do you balance
that?
Or even for you, with you, like, I need to be offensive.
I am offensive.
This is a gift that I have andthis is something I need to
provide.
Yet I don't want to be recklessor risk.
Is that again, just being inthe moment?

Speaker 1 (40:39):
at the end of the day , at the end of the day, I mean
to to sort of put that intowords or you know what that is
precisely.
That's really hard to do, youknow like, and that maybe is why
it took me a little, a littletime to really kind of fine tune
it, to understand what.
What is you know, coach Lemairereally asking here?
You know, and, and, and I thinkat the end of the day you know

(41:00):
it's, it's the same thing as ashow you win games.
You score more than they do,and you know, I guess the next
level from that is you get morechances than they do.
Now you know if you're going toget a chance and then every
chance you go get, you give oneup.
Well, you're kind of justtreading water, you know.

(41:25):
So I think there's just sort ofan awareness, like starting to
recognize.
You know you could probably tryand force some offense anytime.
Really, you know you couldalways go forward.
I think it just comes inlearning like when is a
situation, when does it arisewhere the chances increase for
success?
You know, rather than forcingsomething.
And I think that's probablywhat I had to calculate and

(41:46):
start to learn.
You know, with my skill set,what does that look like?
When are the opportunities totake advantage of?
What do they look like?
You know when the percentagesare.
You know 80% maybe, orsomething of at least creating a
chance without beingirresponsible defensively, or I
don't know what the number is,but you know it's a high chance

(42:06):
of being successful.
It's not like you know what.
I could try this, but it mightonly work one out of 10 times.
That that's not going to flywith Jacques Lemaire.
That doesn't fly with winninghockey, because that means nine
out of 10 times the other team'sgoing to get the puck and
they're going back the other way.
So you're never going to winhockey games.

(42:29):
You know doing something thatmight work one out of 10 times.
I think that's maybe as best Ican describe it.
You know, and again it'sindividual what are your
strengths as a player?
What can you do maybe thatanother guy can't do, or what
can he do that you can't do?
That changes the odds on one ofthose situations.
They will all be different andI think that's a personal thing
to figure out.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah, that's I like that you say that actually the
only I've ever really we'venever really broken that down on
this pod, but the idea, like Iknow some players get upset
because they will try somethingand say Jimmy tries the same
thing, both guys aren'tsuccessful.
Jimmy doesn't get in shit thoughjohnny does.
And and I think that you canactually break that down in the
idea of what you just said,right, and be really honest with

(43:09):
it, like how many times hasthat ever worked for you?
If you're the guy that itdidn't work, and if the coach
all also knows that you might bea one out of ten guy in this
scenario right now and johnnymight be a seven out of ten guy
and didn't work for him thattime, right, yeah, um, so that
might be one way to be able tocome to it.
And then I think thedevelopment aspect that you're
talking about is reallyimportant because, like that's
where the reps come in andpractice off ice, on ice,

(43:30):
whatever the case may be.
So you get comfortable enoughand confident enough that now
your percentages are in thepositive.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
If I do try this in a game, I'm more likely for it to
be successful than not yeah, no, I, I think you think you're
right, I think that you know, Ithink, as, especially with young
kids, you know talking aboutthis, like you know, when I was
playing as a 12, 13 year old, I,you know our coach, you know Mr
Bouquet, he didn't want us togive two on ones either, but you

(43:57):
know he probably wasn'ttreating me quite the same way
that jock was.
You know so, and I think that'simportant, right, the kids need
to make mistakes and try stuff,you know, to figure out what we
were just talking about.
You know practice obviously isa great time to really try
things.
Um, you know to, to maybe makemistakes and, um, work on skills
that can help you uh and create, uh, offense.

(44:18):
You know whether it's yourskating, your stick howling, um,
you know passing, which youknow.
If we get talking about modernday players, that seems to be a
lost art.
You know how to pass andreceive a pass.
It's like these guys can stickhandle in a phone booth, but
tough to catch a pass for them.
You know, and that's a stillsuper important part of the game
, if not one of the mostimportant parts of creating

(44:40):
offense is being able to movethe puck.
But I think that's it.
You know, at a young age youknow you kind of gradually get
into understanding theimportance of not, you know,
taking too many chances but atthe same time you can't take it
all away from a young kid.
It's kind of probably aprogression as you move up the
levels.
You know that that kind ofsituation gets you get high to
tied to a higher standard as youmove up the ladder.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean the pattern recognition is
a word that came to mind whenyou were talking about that too,
right, I think the more repsthat we get in, the more we
mature, like it just inherentlybecomes more obvious, like, when
is this opportunity?
I, I'm on the, I can jump pastthis defender right now, right,
and so I can now create an oddman rush.
Right now, right, and so I cannow create an odd man rush.

(45:25):
We have possession.
Yeah, this is a good time for meto go, instead of, like,
perpetually forcing, forcing,forcing.
You know, it becomes, yeah,less risk adverse and more and
more natural.
I guess, um, and I think thatkind of means to me that's
almost boiling down to hockey iq, and I know now I'm looking at
that through the lens I, I knewI used to know what hockey iq
was from a player standpoint,because, oh, I really like
playing with this guy or maybewe're on the same level, right,

(45:45):
yeah, I knew where we were goingnow as a coach, it's like, oh,
it's so frustrating not to seehockey iq, right like yeah, how
are you?
not going there?
Why did you not press that bookright?
Um it's easy on the video.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
it's easy on the video and it's easy sitting up
high in a rink.
You get the game slow and lotsof room, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Isn't that crazy.
That is the biggest thing, Ithink, that disconnect for
anyone Maybe even guys like usthat played to understand that
when you're actually in themoment it's a way different
world, it's happening way fasterand it's definitely harder to
see and we got to remindourselves of that sometimes.
For sure, absolutely, you talkabout passing.

(46:27):
I do think that's aninteresting topic because the
biggest.
The NHL is phenomenal still, andobviously it always will be the
way they can move the puck.
It's a lot of like one touchesoff rims.
Now you know to guys thatthey've seen, before they even
get the puck, two kind of touchsort of scenarios tic-tac-toe.
Junior is a big step down, theHL is a more moderate step down,

(46:49):
but it is something that justdoesn't collectively seem at the
youth amateur level to be whatit was as far as well.
Yeah, even where to be withoutthe puck, like these types of
things.
In your coaching capacity now,because you are, are still
involved, how are you trying toimplement the idea and that
skill of moving the puck pastpeople instead of potentially

(47:12):
skating the puck past people?

Speaker 1 (47:14):
um, I mean, I I think it's just a lot of reminders.
You know it's a lot of maybe.
You know, looking at video andsaying, did you see these
options?
That would have been a lot moreefficient way of creating
offense or moving a puck into abetter position than trying to
skate it there yourself In game.
You know, maybe having a bit ofa discussion after a player
gets off their shift you knowthat guy was ahead of you and

(47:35):
open, you know, would have beenmuch easier to move it and keep
moving yourself, and then youmight've been the guy getting
the shot because all the tensionwould have went to the other
other player you get lost, youfind open ice and now you're the
goal scorer at the end of theday, right?
So, um, you know it's just verymuch repetition.
Um, like you had mentionedearlier about the highlights and
that everybody loves the one onone play, but I, I, what I love

(47:59):
watching you watch some of thebest players in the world and
the biggest games in the world.
It's the passing, you know,it's the teamwork that that
creates offense.
Not many players in the world,at the highest level even, can
do it consistently enough to tohave success one-on-one or by
themselves and um.
So to just see some of theplays you know, and it really
even gets down.
And when you really get to thethe top of the heap in the Cup

(48:22):
finals, it's like is someonescreening the goalie?
Are we shooting and hitting thegoalie's pads for rebounds?
I mean it's pretty boring, notall that.
You know TikTok worthy, youknow style of hockey, but you
know it's how you win and so Itry and encourage that, point it
out to the players, but it is aconstant sort of thing and it's

(48:45):
going to take a lot of time andexperience for them.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, the defenseman in the modern game seems like
there's more Scott Niedermeyersthat maybe you would speak to.
What I mean by that is there'sbeen a discussion in my in my
Facebook group.
I have a parent group onFacebook where people can ask
questions and they haveconversations.
This one lady was was talkingrecently about her son being put

(49:12):
on D by the coach.
And then how there's like this,almost looking down your nose
at at defensemen, like thereseemed to be the butt of all the
jokes.
You know they're supposed to beless skilled.
You know they're always thefault of the goal, like the
goalie.
Parents don't like the D causethey give up two on ones Right.
The forwards don't like the Dcause they never get the fuck up
, or you know like it's fairenough.

(49:34):
But but I think, like for you,if you were to start again like
right now, would you would likewhat drew you to D in the first
place?
I guess, especially in thenineties.
You're a guy that can skateright, you could, you know you,
you had this high offense, yetthere wasn't a lot of you back
then that would that would choseD from a minor hockey age.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
I think I got put back there by either my dad or
coach bouquet or whoever it was.
I think they said we needdefensemen.
You know, you want to go backthere and I guess I didn't put
up you know too much of a fightand ended up back there and like
, oh, this is all right, I don'tmind this, play a bit more and
see the game a little bitdifferently.
So I think you're right, I wasa forward.
I think every hockey player isborn a forward or a goalie, and
then, yeah, we find our way tobecome defensemen somehow.

(50:18):
I guess, um, yeah, I mean, ithas changed.
I mean, even, just, you know,there is a better level of skill
and puck handling overall.
Um, in all positions, um, ofthe game for sure.
Um, I still, you know there's alot of defensemen that that
create a lot of value bydefending.
Well, you know, to do that youhave to be able to skate.

(50:39):
Um, it does take a level ofskill to, you know, to get pucks
out of your end and move pucksup to the forwards and make
plays, to make plays along theblue line in the offensive zone.
So, you know, I think there'sstill many defensemen that
aren't your classic sort oftotal offensive type defenseman.
That's up the ice a fair bit,but they all have the skill, the

(51:01):
ability to make the little play, to move the puck efficiently
and effectively.
Um, and skate, because nowadaysI mean that that's one of the
massive differences.
When I played defense youdidn't really have to be able to
skate, or started playing inthe nhl.
You could hook, hold, slash,cross, check.
You know you could.
You had a lot of tools at yourdisposal to slow down offensive

(51:21):
guys and the league has takenall those away.
And now it's a matter ofpositioning, having a good stick
and being able to skate andstay with people.
It's a heck of a lot harder todefend now for sure, I agree,
yeah, way harder.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
And it's also looks to be like a heck of a lot more
fun to play D, you know, from a,from an offensive standpoint
side, just seem much morewilling to allow, you know,
players to move into the rush,have that other layer of offense
, the, the offensive zone cycle,like there's no one standing on
the blue line very much anymorepeople are active, uh, yeah.
So I don't know to any youngplayers out there like, and I

(51:54):
still think, like when you dohave that player that moves back
, can defend but now can alsoadd offense, they're still
unicorns, right?
Yeah, I, you know, and I thinkthey stand out a lot.
They definitely provide a tonof value.
So as a coach, I try toencourage some of my offensive
players to consider it for sure.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think the way the game'splayed now there's a lot of
interchangeable parts, you know,all over the ice.
And you know, back again, whenI started it really wasn't like
that.
You know, I used to do a bit ofthat and that maybe was why I
was getting in trouble a bitwith La Mer.
But, you know, trying to do itsmartly and learn to do it in a
smart fashion.
But it really did, you know,make it harder to defend, you

(52:34):
know, for the other team notknowing where someone was or
moving out of a classic positionand trying to sort it out on
the defensive end.
So and you see that a lot now,I mean for sure, there's guys
moving down and up and forwards,coming up high and all that
stuff's going on.
That makes the game harder todefend and does create more
offense.
But coaches are always findingways to defend and teaching

(52:56):
their teams how to do it.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Hey, I'm curious, random tactical question for you
Net front in your own zone.
So when we were coming up, theD was always behind me,
cross-checking me in the back,you know if I was trying to gain
position.
Now a lot of teams are havingthe D front the player and try
and get between the puck andthem and allowing that offensive
player to between him and thegoalie.

(53:19):
What's your thoughts on that?
Do you have a strategy or whatyou would coach?

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, I mean I think that's again goes kind of to a
personal.
You know, what are youcomfortable doing?
What are your strengths as adefenseman?
You know some guys don't mindeating pucks.
You know they're coming hardand you know a lot of guys are
comfortable stepping in front ofthem and getting their body on
it.
I think if you're going to dothat, that's kind of what you

(53:45):
need to do is not let that puckget past you.
You know, on the same side, onthe flip side of that, if it
does get past you, you're introuble now because you've lost
position, you know.
So I would kind of say, unlessyou really like to block shots
and get in front of that puckand are really good at it I mean
obviously that's important youhave to be able to do it as well
as liking it.

(54:05):
I would say you know being onthat defensive side as much as
possible is never a bad place tobe overall, okay.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
I'm glad.
Well, I didn't know what I wasgoing to hear from you,
obviously, because I meanthere's a lot of NHL guys doing
it.
It seems like they want all sixof their D to front.
I just think, like, as far aswhat I was taught and what I
coach is like that defensiveside of like that really is a
key concept that a lot ofplayers don't get, whether
you're for checking or whetheryou're in the neutral zone,
right, be above the puck, beabove your player, right now you

(54:35):
have angles, now you haveposition, now you can attack.
And now, if you're going totake that concept away, like
right in the crease, like thatseems absurd to me to really to
do that.
You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I mean I, I agree I, but I, there are guys that are
big and you know they're goingto get again.
Nine out of 10 pucks are notgoing to make it through them.
Um, you know, and they're, theyfound a way to have success.
You know playing in that styleand, and, and it helps the team.
So I think that's hockey in anutshell, like that would be.
One of my more consistent themesis that I think you mentioned

(55:06):
it earlier there isn't just oneway to do anything.
Ultimately, you know, I thinkthere are some concepts that
remain pretty consistent andtrue to at least where you
should start from.
But obviously, if you recognizeyou've given up that defensive
position in front of the net,you now have no choice but to
get that puck and not let it getto the offensive player behind
you.
I mean, that's as simple asthat.

(55:27):
So it doesn't leave much roomfor error.
I kind of like you know whereyou're in position where you do
have room for error, or you canhelp and you know help another
player, or you're just in a goodposition where not only you
know he's going to have to getaround you but you still have

(55:48):
options to defend from.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
From that position, yeah, I guess the thing you do
have access to potentially on onthe wrong side of them is you
do have to get a stick.
I mean, if you can get a stick,then I guess you're, you're
somewhat okay if you can turnand you have access to a stick
and there's a rebound there,like you still have that
fighting chance.
So I do understand that premise.
But we're, if we're talking toyoung d-men right now, uh, as
far as from a skill set thingthat you mean if you would, if
you would suggest that they dialin, you know one, two and three

(56:11):
, you know if you can do thesethings, you can, you can almost
play anywhere.
Someone's going to recognizeyou like well, what would those,
what would those things?
Be sorry to put you on the spotwith this, but I'm sure it'll
come naturally to you, yeah, no,I mean it's the, the first
one's, I mean.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
I don't know if it answers your question totally,
but it's what stands out to meand it it's kind of just the
intensity and focus it takes todefend in your own end
consistently.
Um, I I think that's somethingthat that young defensemen
always need to work on, you knowit's.
It's pretty common to see, youknow, the play the pucks in your

(56:48):
end maybe not right in yourposition or whatever, and
there's sort of a relaxation.
Maybe you lift your stick up,you straighten your legs, you
kind of just take a moment, youknow to, to maybe grab a bit of
oxygen or whatever.
But you know, the bestdefenders are always adjusting,
they're always reading where theoffensive players are, where
the puck is, where yourteammates are, so that when
something does come, when thepuck does maybe make its way to

(57:09):
your position or your man, thatyou've already moved into
position to be effective andmake your job easier.
And I think that is somethingthat is a tough sell, you know,
for young players they're like,well, unless my guy sort of has
the puck or my position is wherethe action is, you know, I'm
just going to sort of watch andsee what's happening and then
then the puck pops into aposition and now now you react

(57:30):
where it's like am Ianticipating that?
Am I moving into position alittle bit, you know, to maybe
anticipate a puck coming behindthe net or into a different,
different place.
So I think that, not so much askill I guess it is a skill but
just sort of you know, having anawareness and a focus in your
own end to always be adjusting,to give yourself the best chance

(57:51):
to defend, would be number one.
Probably another thing I mean Imentioned awareness in that
sort of combined with that focus, compete awareness and after
that is use of your stick.
I think at all times your stickshould be in a position where
it's there for a reason you know, taking away a passing lane,
discouraging someone to skateinto a position, whatever way

(58:13):
you can use your stick, it's youhave it.
You might as well use it toyour advantage.
So I think those are the twothings that really stand out.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
You know, to me yeah, that stand out, you know to me
yeah, that's your second pointthere is something that I
noticed in my own progressionand and recognizing defensemen
the longer that I played was thethe ones that were really would
give me fits.
Weren't necessarily the guysthat were big, strong, whatever
it was like their stick positionthat was always in an annoying
place, right to either make thepass or get around them.

(58:42):
And, uh you, some of the bestof the best come to mind, like
Nick Whitstrom was was a geniusat it, right, genius at it.
Yeah absolutely, that's a greatone.
Yeah, I mean, stick is such avaluable tool to use and I think
I love your idea there of that.
I mean, really it's a, it's amental skill what you said right

(59:04):
To be able to think and to read, little thinking to read, and
uh, and obviously that's up myalley.
But the idea too is like howoften you see a player get to
that puck?
Maybe even they defend wellenough, but they haven't
considered the informationavailable to them and now they
don't know what to do with it.
Yeah, but that's a big one,right like now.
You've finally broken up therush or the cycle or whatever.
It is like you've ended a play,but if you can't start another
one, it it doesn't make anydifference really.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So when I, you know, sort oftalking about that awareness, it
wasn't only about the offensiveguys, it was where my guys you
know where's the open ice, who'sthe open man?
Um, so yeah, once the playhappens, or we, we change
possession, or I'm able to takeit off this guy, what can I do
with it?
Yeah, and I think offensiveplayers, you know there's a bit
more of a motivation to do that,you know, because it's sort of

(59:46):
always been part of sort of thegame and having success
offensively is making thosepredictions and adjustments to
get into position.
I think it's pretty muchexactly the same thing on the
defensive end.
It's maybe just not.
It doesn't seem as importantwhen you're 12 years old, or
even 16, or 18 or 20, for thatmatter, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
But yeah, and I think as far as those time time
windows can, I mean, decreaseevery level up, and I think
that's where where the reads dostart to matter and if we can
instill this as coaches to theseyounger players, you have more
time.
If you get to the puck and nowyou have to have your head up,
now you have to find somebody,your feet are probably in the

(01:00:25):
wrong spot, your hands are inthe wrong spot to move that puck
.
Yet if we can get there, knowwhere we're going with.
That happens at the nhl levelall the time.
By the time they get the puckthey already know where it's
going.
They have to know right, orelse it just breaks down.
So that skill under pressure,skill in small areas and being
able to read, uh, what you doing.
So that's the idea of thinkingone step ahead.
So for everyone out therelistening, yeah, like not what's

(01:00:48):
happening right now, but what'shappening next, right, like how
do you think about what'shappening next?
And how you can, how you canmake that play.
Short break from theconversation with Scott to look
at the calendar and see, oh, mygoodness, it's already January
13th.
And what does that mean?
That means that associations,teams, junior programs,

(01:01:10):
academies, associations are alllooking ahead and doing their
planning for the 2025-2026season that's going to start in
the fall, and if you are aprogram or an association that
does not have personaldevelopment and mindset training
involved in your competitivedivisions, you are behind the
eight ball and you are missingan absolutely key component of

(01:01:32):
the development model.
Now, up my Hockey can fill thatgap for you.
It's a plug and play scenario.
You don't have to lean on yourcoaches.
It can be, you know, aunionized well, unionized is the
wrong word.
It can be a standardized uhcurriculum for your players as
they move from U13, u15, u18,that you know that you have the

(01:01:53):
personal development and mindsetcurriculum covered that is
going to allow your player togrow within your association, uh
, within your teams.
It will be a reason to keepplayers in your association and
teams and it will be somethingthat the players and coaches
will be very thankful that theyhad available to them.
So if you are somebody that isa decision maker or somebody who

(01:02:13):
writes checks to decisionmakers and you don't have
mindset training involved inyour program, then by all means,
reach out to them.
They can reach out to me,upmyhockeycom.
We are taking phone calls allthroughout the month, january
and February, to see if it is agood fit for Up my Hockey and

(01:02:34):
your place of residence to worktogether.
It's a really exciting time.
The amount of players that I'veseen go through this program now
and the amount of teams thatI've worked with of all ages, uh
, has truly made a remarkableimpact.
Uh, it helps set culture.
It helps redefine what achallenge is.
Uh, there's opportunities wherethey weren't seen before.

(01:02:56):
Uh, how to be a teammate.
The culture in the room changesthe resilience of the team, how
they handle practice and theirown personal development.
It really can be a game changer, and this is something that
happens over eight weeks in ateam program.
So, by all means, throw yourhat in the ring.
Let's see if it's a good fit.
Upmyhockeycom reach out therethrough the contact form or

(01:03:20):
Jason at UpMyHockeycom isanother way to get ahold of me
through email, and I would behappy to set up a discovery call
and see and see where we cantake it.
It's 2025, 26.
It's crazy.
It's going to happen before weknow it.
Uh, now let's get back to myconversation with Scott
Niedermeyer.
What's your message to playersout there?

(01:03:43):
As far as a smaller defenseman,scott, that you know needs to
be able to end plays as well.
You know doesn't necessarilyhave to be physical, potentially
, but can't just contain right.
We've all seen that defensemanthat maybe stays on the d side
but never, ever is able todisrupt possession, and you're,
you're, in your end for whatseems like ever.

(01:04:03):
How do, how do they go aboutmastering their craft?

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think , I think you obviously have,
well, you know just differenttools, I guess, to defend and
then try, and you know, breakplays up and kind of change
possession.
You know most little defensiveand I imagine, you know, I think
there's different ways you maybe.
You're skating, uh, maybe youcan use that to angle and and
sort of take time away and putsomeone in a bad spot or maybe

(01:04:29):
recover.
You know, maybe recover from apoke check or an attempt at a
check.
That doesn't work, but you knowyour skating allows you to
recover to, to get a secondcrack at at the same player use
of your stick.
You know smarts anticipation, Ithink, are sort of the other
one, like a hockey sense thing,and you know you're maybe arc
containing for a little bit andthen you're like, okay, I see

(01:04:51):
he's kind of lulled him intosome position or whatever, and
now I'm going to anticipate thatand get a stick on it or maybe
use the body at that point andrecognize that.
You know, even though I'msmaller, I have the angle.
Maybe use the body at thatpoint and recognize that.
You know, even though I'msmaller, I have the angle, I
have the leverage and I can now,you know, end this play here.
So, um, it is important.
It is much harder than it usedto be.
I mean, you could hook and holdand do all those those things
before, but it really does takesmarts.

(01:05:13):
It takes some skill with withyour skating, with your stick,
to be able to do that.
Um, and obviously it'stremendously helpful when you
are able to to end plays.
I would say the the risk thereis if you're being too
aggressive as a young, youngplayer or smaller player and you
kind of get flipped around tothe other side or or you get
caught, you know, and givingthem chances up that way.

(01:05:35):
So you really do have to besmart.
It kind of goes back to we'retalking about making decisions
offensively to have the mostsuccess.
It's kind of the same thingwhen you're defending, like, is
this actually going to work nineout of 10 times when I go in
now to to try and take the bodyon this guy because I have angle
and position on him, or am Ireally taking a two out of 10
opportunity here to see if ithappens and it doesn't happen?

(01:05:55):
So it's somewhat similar, Iguess, in making those
calculations.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yeah, yeah, those calculations, yeah, yeah, when
you mentioned getting on thewrong side, just for everyone
listening again, we're talkingabout that body position and
it's the difference of like sixto 12 inches and it means the
world, you know, in in, in quickgames that happen fast, and
when you lose body position, youlose access to the net, you
lose access, access to the puck,and, and it really does make a
huge difference when we canthink in terms of that, from

(01:06:19):
offense and defense and thattransition, you get 12 inches
and there's a difference, like abig difference on both sides.
Uh, I guess that's the challenge.
I mean, whether you're big orsmall, I I want to extend that
challenge of try to end plays ifyou can.
I think that's really ahallmark of a defenseman, you

(01:06:40):
know, yes, you want to stay inthe d side, yes, you want to
contain, but the D side, yes,you want to contain, but at some
point somebody needs to stopthe play from happening, and I
think that's sort of a mentalidea of what it is D are trying
to accomplish, and I thinksometimes they forget that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yeah, yeah, you know, maybe cause, maybe cause we're
telling them to not give upchances, so they're kind of like
I don't want to, I don't wantto make take this risk to maybe
get caught out of position.
Um, you know, I think thatcould be part of it.
I, I think you know it is hard,it is hard to defend now, right
, like you make just a subtlelittle mistake on either your
angle or body position, like youjust mentioned, you now are at

(01:07:18):
a, at a bad position and maybegiving up a scoring chance.
So I, I could see where thereis this tendency to kind of be
conservative and and but I thinkit goes back.
You mentioned earlier about inpractice.
You know that's a great time tokind of try things and kind of
start to gauge what can I do,what can't I do, you know, and
make mistakes in practice andtry and defend maybe more
aggressively than you do in agame.

(01:07:39):
And you know like I canactually make that type of play
that maybe more aggressivelythan you do in a game, and you
know like I can actually makethat type of play.
That's a play I can do, youknow, 90 of the time, and have
success.
I'll use it in a game, um,successfully after that.
So I I think it's similar towhat we were talking about
earlier and uh, but yeah, youdon't want to be hemmed in your
zone for for a minute or two,that's for sure that wears you
out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
when it comes to confidence, it's something that
comes up time and time again.
You know the players, playerswant more of it.
You know you, as professionals,we wanted it.
There's times where we didn'tfeel like we had it, and it
seems to be sometimes thiselusive, tangible thing that you
know it's stuck in our closetsomewhere and we just haven't
been able to see it through theother, through the other shirts
hanging.
You know how, how did you cometo that ideation of confidence

(01:08:23):
and and and maybe yourperception of it, or how you
grew it?

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, I mean it, it is important, um, and it is a.
It's a strange thing for sure.
Um, in some ways, um, you know,you're never really at one
level of it.
I think it's kind of alwaysincreasing or decreasing or, you
know, changing, even when youknow you're at the top of your
game.
You know, as a pro, or at leastin that realm of your career,

(01:08:49):
you know, in mid to latetwenties, and probably never
been better at the game, there'sprobably still moments for sure
, there's moments where you wishyour confidence was more, or
your confidence is a littleweaker than it would be in the
best case scenario.
Your confidence is a littleweaker than it than it would be
in the best case scenario.
Um, I think consistent time,practice, um success, I think,
over time and benefiting fromthat work you're putting in, I

(01:09:10):
think that gives you at least abase layer of confidence and
sort of knowing what I can doand what I'm capable of.
Um, but you know, I guesschicken or the egg kind of thing
, I mean, I think it's, I thinkit has to be earned ultimately.
Um, I know, probably, you know,I guess chicken or the egg kind
of thing, I mean, I think it's,I think it has to be earned
ultimately.
I know probably you know youcan get a little bit from
coaches, you know putting you insituations and showing trust in
you and that that obviouslycreates it as well.
But I think you have to justrecognize the work you're

(01:09:34):
putting in and you know that'swhere it has to start competing
and getting out there doing yourbest to to at least give your
chance yourself, yourself achance to succeed and then feel
confident and good about that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Yeah, I like you talked about the, you know, the
practice, or the base layer.
There's different layers, likethe hap, I think, habits like
your personal habits, whichwhich seem to evolve and really
cement as a pro and the fartheryou get to understand what it
means to be professional, youknow in your, in your eyes, or
what it means to be a hall offamer, like there's different

(01:10:07):
habits that guys have and and Ithink that, at least to me, it
seems like the guys that have alittle bit more foundational
confidence let's call it usuallyhave really fantastic habits
yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
I think that's that makes total sense.
Um, you know, in the sense ofhow can I give myself a chance
to go out and be my best?
You know now what kind ofpreparation is that before the
game, mentally, you know, theday before in practice, am I
putting the work in?
Am I building those habits thatI do on a daily basis so that
when I go out on the game I'mgoing to have the best chance to

(01:10:40):
have success?
And when you have a little bitsuccess, the confidence just
grows and you feel good about it.
Rather than going into a gamemaybe a bit underprepared, you
didn't put the work in the lasttwo days in practice, you kind
of backed off your intensity oryour effort, whatever it may be,
and you go into a game and allof a sudden you're a step behind
your plays you're not making.
Now, your confidence isdropping right.

(01:11:02):
So I think you're exactly right, I think you can.
There is a real way you canactually build it and kind of
give it the best chance toflourish and that's put that
work in with habits and sort ofbuild that thing.
Um, from a young it takes time.
Like you said, it's hard to uh,you know, have a 12 year old
that's got all dialed in intheir habits and you're right, I

(01:11:22):
probably didn't have my habitsdialed in until mid to late.
You know, maybe 26 or somethinglike that, where I'm like, okay
, I kind of have this 90% dialedwhere I know what it takes now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
The mistakes is another one that shows up and it
affects it's an individualthing and it's an individual
experience with it.
And it affects, it's anindividual thing and it's an
individual experience with it.
You know what they mean to us,how, what the impact is
ultimately going to be on ourgame in that moment, whether it
be that period or the game as awhole.
Uh, when it comes to someonethat that ended up being at, you
know, at your level, I mean,hockey is a game of mistakes,

(01:11:55):
you know, I, I, I tell youngerplayers now to watch Connor
McDavid like there's multipleturnovers every night, but this
guy's amazing, but he'sattacking, he's attacking and he
makes a lot of good plays too.
So perfection is unattainable,that's that's for sure.
Uh, but what did a mistake meanto you, or how did you overcome
a mistake?
Was it any?
Was that something that everyou know impacted you to a point

(01:12:17):
that, uh, that you got introuble with it sometimes?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, no, I think you're right.
I think that there is, and evenfor each individual there's.
You handle it different ways atdifferent times.
I think for the most part I waslucky that my natural instinct
was, if I made a mistake, Iwanted just to go out that much
more and try and make somethinggood happen.
You know that it was sort ofthat was a natural kind of
reaction I had to mistakes, forthe most part, not always, I

(01:12:42):
mean, sometimes you put yourhead down, you know, especially
if you've, you know, suffered afew of them, you know in a row
or whatever the case may be.
You know it's not always easy todo that, but I think in general
that was my, my, my responsewas like, okay, that happened.
Well, let's go out and try and,you know, make something
positive happen or be better.
That was it.
But you know, when they wererepetitive and you kind of get

(01:13:03):
in that point of the season orwhatever it is, where things
really, for game after game,haven't seemed to be going well,
it is hard to kind of dig backout of a mistake and not let it
weigh you down.
For sure, you know that is adifficult challenge to deal with
at certain times.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
for sure, I like what you said there, though.
I mean and I believe I like tooffer, provide choices right For
players in the moment, and Ithink that what you just said
there maybe what your naturalinstinct was can also be a
choice.
If it's not the naturalinstinct of a player, you know
that.
That that the mistake nowrepresents an opportunity for
you to go out and make apositive impact.

(01:13:40):
Yeah, and that's how youidentify with yourself.
So I mean, now that mistakebecomes an opportunity to be
something better and, and I dobelieve, like, if we have that,
if we have that mental change offocus now, this thing isn't
something that we necessarilyhave to have our head between
our legs on the bench about andfeel bad.
It doesn't mean that anothermistake is going to come.
It doesn't mean that we'rehaving a bad game and that we're

(01:14:02):
going to get benched Right.
It can actually mean that thiscould be the piece of the puzzle
that actually pushes pushes meforward.
So I think that's great, thatthat, uh, you know and maybe
fortunate right that that wasyour natural kind of tendency to
handle that, but I think that'sa super powerful one.
Like that is a choice that wecan make.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
And I think you know, I think too sometimes you know
a little bit of I don't know,maybe pain's not the right word
but discomfort and frustration.
That is how you learn and getbetter and in those moments I
think you know you talked, youasked earlier about sort of that
one moment in my career wetalked about, but I don't know
if I would have learned thatjust by words and pat on the
back.
You know I probably had to feelsome discomfort and frustration

(01:14:40):
to really analyze and andreally sort of take it in in a
real, real fashion.
So you know you're going tohave ups and downs and that's
part of it.
You're going to feel frustratedand you know those are learning
opportunities and hopefullymake you better down the road.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
That is it.
And I think, if, if, if playersout there, if they're going
through something right now, canjust even hear that hope, like,
recognize it, that this thingthat feels crappy, that sucks.
You know that's making youquestion all these things and
your confidence is low that thatcould be the biggest gift you
might ever have right now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
You just got to find a way to get through, you know
go ahead, just keep workingRight, like, and it's hard, it's
hard to do, it's frustrating.
And you know, like back to whatI talked about earlier about
that stretch, for me it was along time, it was two years.
There was probably weeks whereI was kind of doing it and
working through, and then therewas probably another week where
I'm like, ah, this is what am Idoing, I'm lost again or I'm

(01:15:32):
sitting on the bench again.
And it was probably manyattempts, many failures, up
again, down again, and you know,like I said, years later I kind
of at least got part of themessage and, uh, that is part of
the journey and what makes itspecial, I guess, to sort of
figure some things out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
So with um.
With regards to the players Iwork with, I try and get them to
check in on what they're proudof.
You know, what they're doingwell.
I think a lot of us, especiallyhigh performers, we're critical
by nature.
Right, we want perfection andwe're, and we're striving and
we're pushing, which cansometimes blind us to what we're
actually have accomplished andwhat we're doing well and maybe
some of the habits that thatwe've changed about ourselves

(01:16:12):
that are giving us some of thesuccesses that we're
experiencing.
So I'm going to, I'm going toshine that light on you.
I mean tons of stuff to beproud of in your career, but
like what if you could boil itdown to one or two moments?
Or things like what do you?
What are you proud of from yourtime, either as a player or as
a person that you learned fromin your in your time in the game
?

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yeah, geez, the question.
I don't know if I've ever beenasked such a I don't know.
You know, it's sort of likeguess.
Ultimately, you know, somethingI have said before is about,
you know, proud of, I think,being a good teammate, you know,
and knowing that guys felt Isort of cared about them and

(01:16:53):
about the team and that wassomething I think I did and did.
All right, probably could havebeen better.
For sure, you know, like yourclient, it's about being a great
teammate.
I'm sure I could have been abetter teammate.
I'm, I'm sure that was possible.
You know, and, and I guessmaybe just you know, taking my
journey with my talents and andand trying to do the best I

(01:17:13):
could with them, which I, Ithink I did my best at.
Did I perfect it?
No for sure, you never do, butdo, but you know, I think I I
sort of took advantage of themand tried to use them in a
constructive way.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
so I guess those would be some things I'm I'm
somewhat proud of, and beyond,being part of successful teams
that's awesome, yeah, and andbeing a part of successful team
has to say something about, youknow, everyone on that team, and
yourself in in particular,because there is there is some
of those personal, humanattributes that we talked about
earlier that have to be present.
I mean, you have to be selflessin some type of way, you have to

(01:17:48):
be willing to sacrifice, youknow, you have to be willing to
put someone else ahead and totalk about them and to celebrate
them, and so there's a lot ofcool things that happen with
winning that I think we, wesometimes we overlook about
ourselves, which is why I mean Ithought it would be well.
Why not ask you that question?
Because I I think they're goodthings to revisit, you know, and
I and I think when, when we canshare those stories and have

(01:18:10):
those types of discussions likethese are also, again, choices
that somebody else canpotentially choose.
You know, I want to be proud ofdoing that too, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Yeah, I think you know, like you said, like being
part of that, that that's reallyover time been 14 years since I
retired and it's really aperspective on on playing, for
me at least, really changed.
Like when I was playing it waskind of just focused on what do
I got to do and that was it.
I wasn't really thinking aboutbig pictures, thinking about

(01:18:37):
last year or any of that sort ofthing, and then when you retire
you kind of have a whole.
You can kind of flip at it andlook, you know, flip it around
and look at it and and kind ofthink about, geez, what, what
was all that?
You know?
And people always say, well, youwere, you know, you, you were
on these teams that did allthese things.
But I really kind of just said,yeah, I was, I tried to do the

(01:18:58):
best I could with my small roleon those teams and and everybody
else there for the most partdid exactly what I was doing.
That's why we had success.
So, um, you know, to kind ofjust talk about that team
success when you're talkingabout me, well, I just did my
little part.
That that's really what I cameto recognize and which I guess I
always knew, but when there'sthis constant sort of talk about

(01:19:18):
you're on all these winningteams, yeah, I was along with
like 20 other 25 other playersand coaches and all a whole
group of people that were doingexactly what I was doing, and
and that's kind of what, um, youknow, I really thought a lot
about after I retired, for surethat makes it special.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
You know, being in a bunch of like a like-minded
group yeah is, I mean has a lotof impact.
Speaking of impact, do you isthere?
Is there a coach or a player ora teammate that that was
instrumental for you?
That, uh, that you can lookback on and being like, oh yeah,
that was.
I'm really glad he was in mylife yeah, yeah, I mean many.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
I think that sort of stems just from what I was just
talking about.
I I mean the amount of good,committed teammates, committed
to the team, and the way theyplayed, the way they conducted
themselves.
I think all the way along,right from playing minor hockey
in Cranbrook with committed,good other teammates that we

(01:20:17):
pushed each other, we enjoyedeach other, we were committed to
each other playing even when wewere 10, 12 years old, um into
junior.
Ken Hitchcock was my coach, tomRennie, guys that have had
success uh, as coaches that Iwas able to learn from the
teammates there again were weretremendous and I learned a lot
from them.
And then the same thing in prohockey.
I I really, looking back againfrom that type of perspective of

(01:20:40):
a retired guy, I I couldn'thave really been more fortunate,
you know, and just you know, ifyou could pick yourself up and
just drop yourself in a spot,that would be ideal to learn the
things you need to learn.
I was in those spots and youknow.
So I was very lucky in thatfashion.
I imagine I was kind ofreflecting or giving some of

(01:21:01):
that back to the situation too,but I really was in good spots
with an organization with theright goals and approach to
achieving them.
You know all the way down tothe staff, the equipment guys.
Um, they were all in ittogether and I was part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
So yeah, one of the messages without my hockey and
kind of even what this podcastis is is my little version of
trying to give back to a gameand make a game better.
You know that provided me withwith so much and and it's one of
the messages that I have withthe clients that I work with and
actually was you know, it wasjust one of the topics that we
had in our inner circle call theother day is gratitude for the

(01:21:36):
game, gratitude to the sport,and what can we do to make it
better.
You know, whether you're 12 orwhether you're 19 or whether
you're a pro, you're.
You're in a situation where 20year pro I mean all the
accolades, all the things I meanyou're on this podcast, not not
for you, probably for me, uh,and probably for my listeners is
is there.
Do you sort of have thatunderlying thought too, that you

(01:21:58):
know this game has been prettygreat and I and I really do want
to try and make it a betterplace, even though I'm not
playing it anymore yeah, no, Iabsolutely like when I was
playing, I looked at coaches acertain way.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
I definitely look at them different now.
You know and recognize thethings that they taught me and
the things I benefited from allthe coaches I had.
You know, when you're a playerand a coach, there's always this
push and pull and a littleconfrontational in some respects
, definitely back when I wasplaying.
You know they're, they'reholding you accountable and, you
know, sometimes making things alittle uncomfortable or you're

(01:22:30):
different from your viewpoint,for sure, and um, but then again
, when I retired, you kind oftake it all in and you're like,
geez, I had a ton of guys likeyou asked me about that really
helped me along the wayteammates, coaches.
You know other people in theorganization that spent a little
extra time or taught mesomething or or whatever it was,
or gave me a pat on the backafter a tough night, whatever it

(01:22:51):
was.
And you know so, to be able to,to kind of do the same thing for
somebody or try to, um, doesfeel good, um, you know, as you
kind of move through life andget on the other side of that
circle somewhere, um, you know,I, I kind of have exactly the
same thoughts you just saidabout trying to give some of
that back that so many peoplegave to me.
Um, and you know it's enjoyableto see, it's enjoyable to see

(01:23:14):
young players, you know, takingsome of that and and learning
and growing as people andplayers.
It's, it's a rewarding,rewarding thing to do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's super rewarding.
I mean, yeah it's.
It's kind of the most fun Ifind, like when you see a player
find value and self-esteem inthemselves, I mean because of
whatever new decisions thatthey're doing, that's also
resulting in something that'sreally important to them being a
good hockey player and helpingtheir team win hockey games.
Like they're I don't know, youknow, like I love.

(01:23:48):
I love that aspect of it and tobe some some small piece of
that, you know, to help them, tohelp them do that is is pretty
exciting and a great way to togo to sleep at night sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
so uh, I guess we're part of a big team, right, and
no different than being on asmall hockey team or a bigger
team of coaches and you know,citizens of the planet.
So, yeah, absolutely, I, Ienjoy it a lot and you know
those moments when you do seesort of that success or that
confidence, or the play, work orthe situation, or you start to
see habits, form of these youngguys that that help them along.

(01:24:16):
It is a, it's a great feelingabsolutely that's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Is there any last message?
I mean I've kept you for anhour and 20 or 15 here already,
so, uh, I mean thank you foryour time.
Is there any?
Is there any last messages forsome players that would hope to
maybe, you know, put on thatjunior Jersey or a NCAA Jersey
or an NHL Jersey one day.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Yeah, uh, I don't know.
I mean we've covered a lot ofit, right, but you know, I guess
I would say, you know, sort oftip my hat to a lot of these
youngsters now.
I mean, the world they live inis way different than we grew up
in, right, like what they haveto deal with and you know
whether it's social media andjust awareness of all these
things going on.
Like I said, when I grew up webarely knew any other players.

(01:24:59):
You know, we go to thesetournaments and kind of watch
this other team play and you'relike, oh, that guy's a good
player, like what's his name?
I don't know.
Like you know, we're now theseguys know everybody and there's
these camps and all this stuff.
It's always going on and I thinkwhat I really wish and hope is
that they are having the sametype of experience that I did

(01:25:19):
when I was 12, 14, 16, 18 yearsold, that you know they're
enjoying themselves, they'rehaving fun with their teammates
and playing a great game.
I guess, ultimately, thatthat's what I hope for them.
If that leads them to whereverit does down the road, that'd be
great, but I would the numberone thing that they can think
back when they get to be our ageand think, geez, that was a lot

(01:25:39):
of fun.
Those guys you know, thosefriends, those teammates.
We enjoyed ourselves and mademany great memories together.
So I think that would probablybe my number one hope for for
all these young players thatthey can say that down the road
for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Yeah, no, I love that .
Yeah, I think that passion,that passion happens with that.
I mean enthusiasm and fun again, but not discounting the
adversity.
I mean enthusiasm and fun again, but not discounting the
adversity.
I mean that's going to be apart of it, you know, and we
have to understand that that isgoing to be there.
But the underlying idea is thatyou're playing a game and you
got involved in it for a reason.
So no matter how good you wantto be, no matter you know what

(01:26:15):
mistakes you have made, thatplaying where your skates are
and being in the dressing roomand enjoying that moment in
whatever capacity you can isonly going to support your own
personal journey.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
You know, I think, when you're, when you're doing
something you love and you cometo that road block or the speed
bump or whatever, yeah, it'shard and frustrating, but you're
going to have a little extra inthe tank to kind of try and
push through or over whateveryou have to, just because of
that love and passion for whatyou're doing.
So, because it is coming,you're right, the challenges are
coming.
I mean, that's life, that'shockey, it's gonna there's gonna

(01:26:47):
be tough stretches, but if it'ssomething you really love,
they've just seemed moreinsignificant.
Really, you know smaller, andyou just find a way to to figure
it out awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Well, thanks so much for your time, um, thanks for
shooting the show with us here.
On on up my hockey and I'm surethere's uh, there's a lot of
great lessons for everyonelistening today no, happy to do
it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
It was great, thank you thanks all right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Thank you so much for being here.
That was not hard at all tolisten to.
My goodness, if you are ahockey geek fan, parent player
and you have the opportunity tohave the ear of somebody like
scott niedemeier, for what wasthat?
An hour and 15 minutes, mygoodness, I think we are all

(01:27:33):
better off than we were 75minutes ago.
I'm super grateful personallyto be able to, to be able to ask
the questions and to have thereins on that conversation.
That was really special for meto be a part of.
And, yeah, and try and get asmuch as we can out of that brain
of Scott's Boy the things thathe has seen, the places he has

(01:27:54):
played, the things that he haswon.
It really is remarkable and itwas really really a blessing to
have him on Lots of takeawaysthere.
You know, I I love him talkingabout his, his coach, and you
mean how he had to play withinhimself and how he had to create
himself into this idea of ateam player when he felt that he

(01:28:18):
could have been giving morelike boy.
I mean this is from scottneedamar.
I'm sure this is something thatcan be taken away from
everybody in a car right now, orwherever you're listening on
your headset player parent, whathave you?
Uh, the idea that we are in ateam sport, and that's one of
the beautiful things that makesit so special that, no matter

(01:28:41):
how good you are, you need to bepart of the group.
And sometimes being part of thegroup and part of winning as a
group is taking some selflessacts and figuring it out, and
that's what Scott Niedermeyerdid.
He figured it out.
He had to play within himself.
He didn't get maybe the starquality minutes.

(01:29:05):
He wasn't able to rush as maybehe was able to, uh, but he was
forced to learn the game the wayhis coach wanted him to, and he
was able to find that trustwith his coach, even though it
was there was some resistanceinvolved along the way, but you
know him, looking back on thatnow, says that was those were
the most formative years for him, the years that he was most
frustrated.

(01:29:25):
That potentially allowed him tostep into the Hockey Hall of
Fame player that he was and thewinner that he was.
So, um, yeah, great lessonthere.
I love that one and maybe we'lljust leave you with that.
Um, if it's good for ScottNiedermeyer, I'm sure it's good
for you.
So play hard and keep your headup.

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EP.148 - Scott Niedermeyer on Team Success, Personal Growth, and Mastering Defensive Play

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP.148 - Scott Niedermeyer on Team Success, Personal Growth, and Mastering Defensive Play