EP.149 - From the Minors to an NHL Legend: Duncan Keith's Journey of Resilience and Triumph - Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
At the end of the day , I always had belief in myself.
I know maybe everybody saysthat, but, you know, when I look
back on my career it's likethere was never a doubt that I
wasn't going to make it to theNHL.
And so if I'd ever heard, likeyou know, the scouting to me, I
was always just kind of themindset.
I definitely had respect for,you know, everybody that put out

(00:25):
their lists and who theythought and the draft picks that
were getting drafted.
But I always just believed inmyself and thought, why am I not
getting drafted?
I never understood it.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
That was two-time Norris Trophy winner and
three-time Stanley Cup champion,duncan Keith, and you are
listening to the Up my Hockeypodcast with Jason Padolan.
Welcome to Up my Hockey withJason Padolan, where we

(00:59):
deconstruct the NHL journey,discuss what it takes to make it
and have a few laughs along theway.
I'm your host, jason Padolan, a31st overall draft pick who
played 41 NHL games but thoughthe was destined for a thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hey there, welcome back, orwelcome to the Up my Hockey

(01:24):
podcast with Jason Padolan.
I am your host, jason Padolan,and you're here for episode 149.
Almost reached that century anda half mark and, yeah, we're
celebrating the 149 episode bybringing on a future Hall of
Famer.
We had on Scott Niedermeyerlast week and we're following in

(01:46):
the vein of defensemen, andthis guy will hear his name
called one day to be assured,and that is Duncan Keith.
Duncan Keith won two NorrisTrophies for the best defenseman
in the NHL, or, in other words,the best defenseman in the
world.
He also won three Stanley Cupswith the Chicago Blackhawks.

(02:08):
He also happened to win aMemorial Cup and he won some
gold medals along the way andlots of other stuff.
And it was amazing to haveDuncan on the pod.
We ran into each other, which wecovered at the beginning of the
episode, at a PentictonPanthers alumni event that the
Penticton V's uh hosted justthis past weekend and was able
to shake his hand and meet himformally for the first time.

(02:30):
I knew he was in the region, uh, but honestly didn't even know
that he played for the Panthersuh back in the day.
So he was a few years after mebut was able to wear the uh, the
Panther P and and the red andblue and and it was fun, was fun
to get together for that event.
When I was talking to him, Ifound out a ton of stuff that
night that I had no idea.
I knew he played for theBlackhawks, I knew that he was a

(02:52):
hell of a defenseman, all-starDefenseman, award winner,
stanley Cup winner, et cetera,et cetera but I didn't know his
history.
Like I said, I didn't know hewas a Pentecostan Panther.
I didn't know that he went toMichigan state uh, and then came
back, uh, and played for theKelowna Kelowna uh, not Spartans
, oh, my God, the KelownaRockets and uh, and found out a

(03:13):
little bit of his, of his story.
You know he played in theminors.
He wasn't drafted in the Bantamdraft.
He, you know he, he did getdrafted second round uh in the
NHL out of Michigan State, so itwasn't like he was completely
unknown at all.
I mean, that's a very high pickthat he took, but undrafted as

(03:33):
a Bantam crazy to me and withall the stuff that goes on
around now with the Bantam drafthere in the West and how many
eyes are on everybody.
And here's a NorrisTrophy-winning defenseman that
didn't make uh, the bantam draft.
And and so I was like you knowwhat, duncan, we got to have you
on, we got to talk about yourjourney.
Uh, I love hearing what I'veheard so far and and let's talk

(03:54):
more about it.
And uh and yeah.
So here we are, you know he,when I looked up his draft and
I'm looking at it right now, youknow he went.
Where did he go?
He went 54th overall.
Uh, in the second round Icounted it up 15 defensemen uh
were chosen before him.
Uh, none of those 15 won anorris trophy and I don't

(04:17):
believe any of them won threestanley cups.
He also happened to be theplayer from that draft to play
the most NHL games out of theentire draft, class 1,256.
And that's regular season games, not including playoffs, and we
know he had a ton of those andit's just wild right.
And he started in the minors.
That's another thing.
So he played two full seasonsin the minors and we talk about

(04:41):
that on the pod as well.
And it wasn't like he wasnecessarily lighting it up.
He did say that.
You know his.
The points that he did get hevery you know he valued because
he was not on the power play.
They didn't have him on thepower play.
So again, like I just can'tbelieve the magnitude of this
story, because these storiesjust keep coming up and they
keep reminding me why I do whatI do, which is help players get

(05:06):
better.
It's so wild to see what canhappen.
You know, if you were to be inan arena at the time watching
Duncan Keith play hockey at theAHL level and have 25 points in
you know 70 games, I don't thinkthat you would have had him in
a Norris trophy winningsituation four seasons, five
seasons later.

(05:26):
And yet he was.
You know his, his, uh, trentYoni didn't have him on the
power play.
We talk about this there.
You know he was a gifted playerand was not put on the power
play for four seasons, um, andthat was part of his journey to
become one of the bestdefensemen in the world.
So really, really cool stuff wetalk about.

(05:47):
You know some of the thingsthat he did as an undersized
player.
You know he said he was 130pounds when he started junior
obviously not big, and that wasin an era where big really did
matter a lot more than it doesnow Much more physical era.
So he was able to get by somesome advice for for smaller
players out there, we talk aboutcompete and competitive spirit,
belief systems, uh, how tolearn, how to process.

(06:09):
There's a lot of great stuff inthis episode and it really was
just an honor, uh, to haveduncan on the show.
So, yes, I think this goesright in line with the up my
hockey theme and philosophy uh,that development is king.
It's not all about, you know,natural skill.
It's not all about you knowbeing, in quotes, the best

(06:31):
player right now.
It's about what you can become.
And for Duncan Keith, heobviously became one heck of a
hockey player, had a long, long,healthy career and now he's
continuing on with hockey, bygiving back, by coaching his boy
in the Penticton area there.
So awesome stuff.

(06:52):
I will not talk you off anylonger.
Let's get into the interviewwith future Hall of Famer,
three-time Stanley Cup champ,two-time Norris Trophy winner,
duncan Keith.
All right, well, here we arefor episode 149, I think, and
I'm dealing with an ex-Pantheralumni by the name of Duncan

(07:12):
Keith.
Duncan, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Thanks for having me on, jason.
It's good to meet you the otherday.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, it was fun, so, uh, maybe we'll just start
there.
We we both showed up for aPenticton Panthers alumni event.
Thank you to the Penticton Bees, by the way, for putting that
on.
Duncan and I shared the samealma mater when it comes to that
from back in the 90s.
What do you think of that night?
First of all, maybe we'll startthere.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
I thought it was great.
Obviously it was nice to seesome old teammates that I hadn't
seen in a while and catch upwith them and uh, and then and
then obviously meet guys likeyou that, uh, we kind of uh when
we joined the panthers we hadheard about but never got a
chance to, to meet.
So, um, you know, it was a coolnight and it was nice of the

(08:01):
bees, like, like you said, toput that on for us and remember
the Panther days.
It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I like seeing our old jerseys ripping around
out there.
I thought seeing the Panther Pthere and the red and blue
jerseys was pretty cool.
I don't know if I said it toyou, but somebody mentioned that
boy.
They should have played thatgame in the old barn.
That would have been evenbetter.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, I think somebody did mention that that
would have been a good idea.
I don't know if the playerswould have liked that on that
small ice, but yeah, Idefinitely missed that old barn
and it's crazy to think weplayed junior on that smaller
ice surface.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Do you remember the Civic back in Vernon?

Speaker 1 (08:48):
And that barn is special.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Do you remember the Civic Arena back in Vernon?

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, so they did the same thing and they actually
played their game in the Civic.
So I forget who they played,but now the Vipers played but
the the, you know the.
Now the vipers played as thelakers and uh and played in the
civic arena before they rippedit down.
It was the last thing they didbefore they they ripped the old
civic arena down and like evenfor warm-ups, like all the

(09:17):
players used wood sticks andstuff, like it was.
It was pretty cool the way theydid it.
The place was packed, it waspretty fun that's nice yeah, it
was cool.
Uh, yeah, as far as penticton.
So how did I see that you'reborn in winnipeg, uh, and I'm
not sure if you were raisedthere or not, but how did you
end up being a penticton panther?

Speaker 1 (09:38):
uh, yeah, I was born in winnipeg and then our family
moved to fort francis ont.
So I was, I grew up there withour, with our family, and and
when I was about 14, we movedout West.
So I hadn't been farther Westthan Winnipeg at the time.
So it was kind of uh anadventure, to say the least, on

(09:59):
getting out here and and then uhsettling and and putting down
roots here in Penticton.
But yeah, no, it was a bigchange in our lives at that time
.
But it was a cool experience.
Got to be able to see, when Iwas 14, 15, watch the Panthers
in that Memorial Arena.
And for a small town kid out ofnorthwestern Ontario to be able

(10:23):
to watch Junior a games and andsee some of the players and how
good they were, uh, you know,that was really uh inspiring for
myself.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
So it was, it was a good move, yeah so you came to
penticton at around that age 14,is that?
Is that how old you were?

Speaker 1 (10:38):
yeah, I was uh at the time, it was first year bantam,
so it was my 14 year old season, and then I got to watch uh
panthers players like craigmurray uh he was drafted to went
to michigan, drafted by themontreal canadians and uh he was
a hometown boy.
So I remember him and and a fewof the guys that uh, I ended up

(11:00):
playing with uh were stillthere three years later.
What I liked about it was therewas lots of hometown kids, you
know, that were locals, whetherthey were from Penticton or the
Okanagan area, so you could kindof resonate with a little bit
and strive to be one of thoselocal kids.
Yeah, cool.

(11:20):
It's changed a bit now.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
So you went to Penn High then as well, I guess,
right, yeah?
Cool okay, yeah.
So I went there for for the oneyear in grade 10.
I played as a 15 year old therein that league and that was
with the Paul Correa era, um sohe was in Paul Correa yeah oh,
really wow yeah and uh, so thatwas really cool.
I think that was his last year.
So he went to Maine, as as youknow there, and then won the

(11:45):
Hobie right and got draftedbecause he was a late birthday.
He got drafted out of Maine,not not from the Panthers, so I
was there with with him his, uh,his last year in Penticton.
So, yeah, I mean that was superfun, right To be around Paul,
and of course we knew how goodhe was going to be right, but,
uh, but he was definitelyspecial, uh, and and it was fun

(12:06):
to be on the ice with him everyday.
Did you for you, like I?
I went to spokane after that 15year old year because I, I
wasn't, you know the, the waythe rules worked.
I just couldn't play as a 15year old and in the dub, uh,
wanted to go to the dub the nextyear and did I never really had
my sights set on on a uscollege.
Is that the direction youwanted to go right off the bat?

Speaker 1 (12:29):
uh, well, not really.
I think partly because of mysize, especially at the time
when I was 16.
I was like 130 pounds and fivefoot nine.
So, um, I think it was just theright path for me and the
timing more than anything, givenmy maturity as a, as a, as a
player and and I guess as a man,you know it was back then.

(12:56):
I think you know, I think youcan get away with it now, but
yeah, it was a good, gooddecision.
I played two years with thePanthers, 16 and 17.
And then just the thoughtprocess was to go to school just
to get that extra couple ofyears or extra year of
development and then be able toturn pro.
But once I was drafted out ofMichigan State after my freshman

(13:21):
year, you know, we started totalk more about going to Kelowna
.
Then, halfway through mysophomore year at Michigan State
, I left to go play in the WHLas a 19-year-old.
I'd already been drafted atthat time and physically matured
more.
I guess that was a thoughtprocess there.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
I was going to ask you that so you're not a late
birthday, but you did get.
Did you get drafted like oneyear after your first year of
eligibility?
Is that what happened?

Speaker 1 (13:55):
No, but the rules back then were that you couldn't
get drafted if you were goingto go to school, so I had to.
Yeah, I wasn't allowed to bedrafted as a 17-year-old and you
had to be drafted as an18-year-old if you were going to
go to college.
I know that rule has changed.

(14:15):
Now you can be a 17-year-oldand get drafted at a junior A,
but that was the rule back then.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
It's kind of some weird rules.
Yeah, because you had a reallygood year there in Penticton,
like the one that got you toMichigan State at least from a
statistical standpoint right, 82points in 60 games I'm looking
here and then got drafted thereout of Michigan State.
You ran a high pick, you know,second round or 54th overall.
So it wasn't like you were offthe radar then and like kind of
came on on the scene uh, youknow that you grew a bunch or

(14:44):
whatever, but you were.
You were obviously beingwatched and people were
recognizing that you had somepotential, uh, uh, some future
potential as a pro.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, um, I just think it was, yeah, just kind of
the the with that, the rule,the combination of the rule and
and just, you know, trying to um, to, I guess, delay things a
little bit.
So that, um, yeah, maybe Iwould, I would go higher in the
draft if I was able to be alittle bit bigger and and

(15:15):
stronger, and, um, you know, Idon't even know, maybe I
wouldn't even have got draftedat 17 if, uh, if I was in the
WHO right, well, is there there?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
well, maybe go back to that.
So I mean being 130 pounds, asyou said.
You know, in junior, youngerguy, you don't know any
different at the time.
You're just smaller, right,haven't grown yet.
But, like, can you look backnow and reflect on maybe some of
the challenges or some of thelessons, or maybe even how that
was a positive thing for youbeing smaller than everyone?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, I was always smaller than everybody.
You know, I just felt like thatmy whole life, one of the
smaller defensemen on the teamand I always I was never really
worried because, you know, I'mjust kind of a late bloomer in
that regard and you know, Idon't know if it's genetics, but
my dad is, you know, decentheight and the same with my mom.

(16:08):
So I was.
I always figured that, you know, once I hit puberty I'll I'll
end up getting some size, butyeah, it definitely allows you
to to.
You know, I think it it it as ayoung, as a smaller player,
when you're growing up.
I find that it it helps developthose I guess you'd call them

(16:29):
survival instincts and in a lotof ways, you know, you got to
keep your head up and you got totry to be quicker than the
other players and get out of theway because you can't
physically outpower somebody fora puck.
So you got to be smart and useyour brains and and your
quickness and your skill.
So I think that helped medefinitely over the course of my

(16:50):
career and as I got older andum, matured physically and and
got stronger and um, you know, Iwas, I, I I got some decent
size I'm still.
I was still consideredobviously undersized defenseman,
but just always had the abilityto kind of escape or evade and

(17:15):
and then use my quickness to myadvantage.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, I think that's a, that's an important lesson
right there, I think you know,especially speaking to two
amateur athletes out there thatare on the smaller side, because
it can be pretty demoralizing,right, like you know, always,
always trying to fight thatfight and feel like you can't
win that fight.
But I think you just have tofight the fight differently.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, yeah, I never.
This funny thing is is that Inever really.
You know, I I think you'reright, it can be demoralizing,
but I never, I never gotdemoralized.
I never felt like I wasn'ttaking big hits.
I was, um, you know, I, Ialways worked on my skating to
to make sure that I I didn't,you know, get hit and and using

(18:00):
my quickness and and thattraining off the ice uh, paid
off.
And I think it's thatcombination of being a good
skater and and and working hardin the gym so that you know,
even though you're small, youcould still get around out there
and and uh, and be evasive.
So, um, yeah, it's, uh, I thinkthat if you're a younger player

(18:22):
, that those are probably twothings you want to work on.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Right, it's a skating game and and if you can skate
and move around out there good,then you're going to feel
confident yeah, yeah, it's justfinding, I think, new kind of
different solutions to the sameproblem, right, like there's
more than one way to go get apuck out of a corner.
You know, some guys are going tobe bigger and they're going to
use body position and maybe amore direct line to take it, or

(18:47):
you can be a little more finesseright, and maybe a little more
evasive and your angle is goingto be a little different.
Like I think they just got tobe curious, right, about the
game and using their, usingtheir skill set, instead of just
feeling like, oh well, everytime I get in a in a battle, I
get pushed off the puck.
Well, I mean, you approach it adifferent way and that's kind
of the fun part about coaching.
Now I find and I'm sure you'reseeing that now with your, with

(19:10):
your boy right like to try andopen up some perspectives on the
game and and invite some ofthat wisdom that that you have
from all the years you playedyeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I think that's kind of one of the things that I've
thought about a lot the lastcouple of years is how do you
teach instincts, you know, and,and being able to anticipate the
play.
I think that was probably a bigthing too.
It's like you can be quick andand smaller or undersized, but
you know you still need to beable to anticipate that play and

(19:41):
what's going to happen, be ableto anticipate that play and
what's going to happen, and ifyou can, you know, see where
that play is going to, whereit's going to lead to, then you
can be one step ahead and, uh,you know, that's that's
important, obviously yeah,that's uh that's how do you?
how do you do that anyway, jason?
How do you, how do you coach orteach instincts like some of it

(20:02):
to me?
I've thought about it and lookback it's like how did I develop
, you know, instincts, and Idon't know if it's just a
combination of playing a bunchof different sports or just
being able to ride my bike allday in the summer and you know,
not be told what to do.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know it's not a great question, uh, I don't
think there is one right answer,uh, but I do think it's fun,
like that process that you justsaid, like okay, how did I learn
this?
Like that's the question I'veasked myself a ton of times now,
wearing a coach's hat, you know, like, how do I what I knew or
what I was good at, how did Ilearn it?
And if I, and if I do know howI learned it now, how can I

(20:39):
teach it?
And it's, and it's a totallydifferent, totally different
modality, uh, but I do think onething is like I played
everything growing up.
I'm not sure if you did, wereyou?
Were you an athlete or just ahockey player?

Speaker 1 (20:51):
no, I was an athlete.
Uh, where I grew up in ontario,fort francis, it didn't have
all the you know like a seriousbaseball league or too serious
of a soccer league, but I Iplayed all the sports and I was
always on my bike running andyou know doing everything.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
So yeah, and I think I think, like, if you understand
baseball, basketball, soccer,you know like there's different,
obviously, the different sportsall have different rules,
there's different strategy,there's different areas to find
space, like I think it allcorrelates, right an overall
understanding of, okay, now yourgame on the ice.

(21:29):
So I do think that's that thatis helpful.
Uh, the one way I coach it toanswer your question is I talk a
lot about reads at the older,like at the as they get older,
right, more competitive hockeyis like, what do they see?
Like I can continually ask that, like when they've, when
they've made a decision and theycome off, I'll ask them what
they like, what was their read?

(21:50):
And a lot of times, like theyhaven't made a read, right, that
they will, they will get thepuck and then they will react
and however they think theyshould react, instead of knowing
what was in front of thembefore that puck even gets there
and then making a decision.
And I think that thatseparation for me is huge.
Right, the players that thatmake a read, whether it's
defenseman off the rush.
Seeing that it's a two on twowith no, with no support, you

(22:13):
can play that way differentlythan a three on two with a high
guy, right.
You know what I mean.
So I try and talk about that, Itry and talk about that, I try
and talk about concepts andstrategies and try and reinforce
that again and again and again.
So now we're seeing a wholepicture and then, when we see
the picture, now we're able toact in that, within that picture
.
I don't know, does that makesense?

Speaker 1 (22:32):
yeah, no, that's interesting, yeah, I mean.
Yeah, the game is all aboutreading and reacting right and
and and figuring out whatsituation you're in.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
So the quicker they can make those, those reads, the
better yeah, and I think, goingback to our talk about, I mean,
smaller players, like isn'tthat a huge benefit for those
players right to to know wherethey, where they're, where your
support is with that puck assoon as you get it.
So it's a one touch of the puckand not three touches of the
puck to get it to a spot rightand get your head up, like
that's that's the key like and Ithink that's

Speaker 1 (23:04):
sometimes I wonder if it's not even necessarily has
to do with sports.
I guess if you're, if you'retrying to process information,
you know I watched that uh Idon't know if you've seen it
that netflix documentary with uh, aaron rogers.
Um, I don't watch a ton ofnetflix, but I did watch that

(23:25):
one and, uh, I really enjoyed it.
I I think one of the parts theytalked about was his ability to
process information quicker and, uh, and some of that maybe is
just the way his brain workedand you know he did a lot of
crossword puzzles and a lot ofyou know reading and you know
whether it's it has nothing todo with sports, but you're

(23:45):
getting a certain portion ofyour brain turned on and I don't
know.
I'm still learning myself here.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, 100%.
I think that's the fun part isyou never stop learning, right?
What are some of the things andwhat are some of the tricks?
And that's really interestingto me when it comes to Michigan
State.
So it's super interesting to me, like that, you went to the
university route and then cameback to major junior which
doesn't always happen, you knowand you said it's not like there

(24:12):
was a discussion there withyour agent like what was that
all about?
Why did you choose to leave agreat school like michigan state
to come to come to kelowna?

Speaker 1 (24:19):
uh well, I guess first and foremost just the
opportunity to play for theRockets.
You know such a greatorganization with Bruce and the
Hamilton family.
It was always first class and Idid have the opportunity to go

(24:39):
watch a few games when I wasyounger and you know so there
was a bit of a nostalgia thereto be able to put on a Rocket
uniform, but yeah, it was atough decision.
A nostalgia there to be able toput on a rocket uniform, but
yeah, it was a tough decision.
It was hard.
You know you're leaving yourteam voluntarily.
I was close with the guys atMichigan State and I had a great
time at Michigan State.
I learned a lot.
I had great coaches I had.
My first year was Ron Mason.

(25:01):
My second year, for that secondhalf, was Rick Comley.
So it was more of just adecision based on where I was at
my age and the fact that Icould sign a contract with
Chicago sooner.
But yeah, no, once I felt likeonce I got to Kelowna I was in

(25:26):
the right place.
I don't want to say I didn'tlike school, but there wasn't a
whole lot of schooling going onwhere I grew up in Port Francis
Not to say that it's badschooling there.
I'm not putting that out there,but it was just a different vibe
.
Hockey's my life and it's beenmy life.
I wanted to be a hockey playerand then, all of a sudden, you

(25:49):
know, when you go to school youdo have to put a lot of time
into your schooling, and for me,that was hard.
It was, you know, it was a lot,and so I just preferred that
focus to be on hockey.
And, and when you're in the WHL, you're playing 72 games.

(26:09):
I think they still play 72 now,don't they?
Um 68, 68, yeah, okay, so youknow, and it just felt like more
of a pro schedule and, yeah, itwas just, you know the the
right timing for me to be ableto be closer to signing with
Chicago.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Right.
Can you contrast the games forme, if you can remember at that
time?
I know both leagues haveevolved since you were there,
but how would you compare thestyle of play from major junior
to D1?

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well, at the time at Division I, 1 College, there was
no red line rule, so it waskind of the way the game is now
it was fast paced and it seemeda little more chaotic, you know.
And then when I got and when Isay chaotic I don't mean it in a
bad way, I just mean it that itwas fast paced and you know the

(27:02):
puck is up at the goal line.
The next thing, you know, it'sit's at the top of the far blue
line and uh, you know.
So there's adjustments there.
And when I went to the whl theystill had the red line in place
so you couldn't make two linepasses.
So it was.
It was more of a controlled uhuh game in that regard, where it

(27:23):
was more kind of methodical,moving slower up the ice.
So that was definitely anadjustment.
I felt like the players in theWHL were in general a little bit
younger.
You get 16 and 17 year olds and, and obviously 18 year olds and
19, 20 year olds, but sometimesin college you're getting a guy

(27:44):
that's a 21-year-old freshmanand by the time he's a senior,
he's 24, 25 years old.
So you're playing against grownmen at college and both leagues
were great experiences for meand, yeah, I wouldn't change
anything.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, well, especially you won a
championship in Kelowna, right,you guys won the Memorial Cup
there that year.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, we had a good team, so I think that
always helps too.
When I got there, they were inthe middle of a winning streak
and we just kind of carried thaton and yeah.
So anytime you're part of awinning group, it always makes
it feel better.
But, yeah, I, anytime you'repart of a winning group, it
always makes it feel better.
But yeah, I still keep incontact with a lot of those guys

(28:29):
that I played junior with inKelowna and yeah, it's great
memories there for sure.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well, I opened up your hockey DB on that team and
I had no idea.
But for those listening, sothis Kelowna Rockets team that
won the Memorial Cup had DuncanKeith, the two-time Norris
winner, uh, shea Weber, likehockey hall of famer I don't
know if he won a Norris or not,but you know hockey hall of
famer, he was 17 at the time andalso, uh, josh George is on the
back end, who I don't know howmany NHL games he played, but I

(28:57):
mean had to be over 500.
So you know, pretty, prettygood decor there.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
I'd say yeah and the leading scorer for our decor was
Thomas Slovak.
He was the second-round pickfor the Avalanche.
He didn't make it to the NHL,but he led the whole WHL in
points that year, so we had asolid decor.
Mike Card was on that team too,and he's a former Penticton

(29:23):
Panther and he played a fewgames for buffalo as well.
So, yeah, we had a solid decorand, uh, some good forwards
there too that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Let's take a quick break from my discussion with
Duncan to actually ask aquestion.
The question is does someoneout there want to participate in
a guided mission as we approachFebruary, march of 2025?
I think it's a great time tobring one on.
Historically I have done it inthe past.
I think it's great to get readyfor playoffs.

(29:58):
I think it's great to tunethings up to get ready for the
tryout season which happensafter playoffs.
There's lots of value to youknow.
Tune things up to get ready forthe tryout season which happens
after playoffs.
Uh, there's lots of value toindividuals.
Uh, but I am like flat out busyright now and wasn't sure if I
was going to offer it.
But the thing is is I have areally hard time saying no to
players that want to get better.
So if this is something that Ishould offer, I'd love just to

(30:20):
build the cohort now and knowthat there is interest and not
go through the work it takessometimes to fill a guided
mission.
So, yeah, looking for anyonewho's interested, you can go on
the website, reach out in thecontact form.
You can email me, jason atupmyhockeycom, say hey, yes, I
am interested Another way toexpress interest to me and a way

(30:43):
to get me to get in touch withyou is to complete the mindset
quiz, which is on my website.
I believe it's also on myInstagram.
The mindset quiz there givesyou an idea of what we would be
working on within the guidedmission, which is the Peak
Potential Hockey Project, mysignature program for hockey
players who want to connectpersonal development and mindset

(31:04):
to their game, uh, so themindset quiz will connect you to
that.
I'll ask you questions, uh,that pertain to some of the
curriculum items and some of theaction steps that we'll be
working on, and then that comesto me.
Obviously, I get to see yourresults and uh would let me know
that.
Yes, you can put in the notesthat, yes, we are interested in
having uh or joining a guidedmission pre-playoffs.

(31:25):
So yeah, that's it.
We have one going right now.
We got eight players, or nineplayers in, I think, from all
across North America Rollingwell in the first week.
I love seeing the breakthroughs.
These players make so much funworking with them and we do roll
these out throughout the year.
I was going to take a break,like I said, until until the
summer.
August is always a very populartime for for the program.

(31:47):
But if there is people outthere that want to do it and
want to reach out, then I willmake it happen for you.
So, all right, let's get backto the uh conversation with
Duncan Keith.
Duncan Keith, I'm going tocontinue on just with, like your
, your own personal development,because what an arc you mean to

(32:10):
me, at least it looks like forme.
You know what I mean.
There's not a ton of guys thatwent to Norris trophy first of
all and I'm probably fewer thatI would say that you know come
from a, from the second round oreven start in the minors.
You know like which that.
I would say that you know comefrom the second round or even
start in the minors.
You know like which.
I love that, I love that.
I love that evolution.
So you know you go from winninga Memorial Cup in Kelowna to
two full seasons in the AHL withNorfolk.

(32:33):
How did that help you?
One for your development andtwo, if it did, did it help you
stay grounded as an NHLer tohave that experience as as an
AHL player?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
yeah for sure.
I think at the end of the day,I always had belief in myself
and I know maybe everybody saysthat, but, uh, you know, when I
look back on my career, it'slike there was never a doubt
that I wasn't going to make itto the NHL.
And so if I'd ever heard, likeyou know, the scouting to me, I
was always just kind of themindset I definitely had respect

(33:11):
for, you know, everybody thatput out their lists and who they
thought and the draft picksthat were getting drafted.
But I always just believed inmyself and thought like, you
know, why am I not gettingdrafted?
I never understood it, and youknow.
But you can see how kind ofhard it is to project, obviously

(33:32):
for for younger players, and Ithink for me it was just a
matter of that.
There was a lot, of, a lot ofgood coaching.
I had Trent Yanni.
I was fortunate to be draftedby chicago and and I and I, uh,
yeah, really grateful that I, Iwent there because I had trent
yanni, who played about six,seven hundred games in the nhl

(33:52):
as an nhl defenseman and he wasour head coach and he took the
time with all of us defensemenand, uh, and all the players
really, and I guess he believedin me too and it wasn't.
So I finally had the time whereit was like, you know, you
don't have to go into the cornerand just hammer a guy and be

(34:13):
physical, you can use yourquickness and use your quick
stick to break up plays.
And so that to me was a big, Ithink, a big change, or a big
turning point too, in my career,where it was finally somebody
that was, you know, allowing meto use my strengths as a player,
uh, to to defend.

(34:34):
Everybody talks about quicknessand speed to to create offense,
but you know how, about somequickness and speed to defend?
And, um, you know, so, yeah,definitely Trent.
And I think Trent is stillcoaching I think he's in Detroit
now and as an assistant there.
And you know, it's just nosurprise that wherever he goes,

(34:55):
wherever he's with, he kind ofhe helps all those young
defensemen.
So I'm really fortunate that Ihad him early on in my career.
That kind of set a a bigfoundation for for the rest of
my career, right yeah, that'swild.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So you talked about belief.
Uh, to me that falls under myterm of like mindset, which is
what I try and help players with, and I do think that's an
integral part of of you mean,high performance, peak potential
, right like being your best.
Where.
How did you cultivate that ifyou, if you could even answer
that question like where, wheredid you feel that belief came

(35:30):
from, and and why was it soinherent within you?

Speaker 1 (35:34):
well, I don't know.
That's a good question, I think, for, for one, I, as a young
kid, I I always the desire to bein the NHL was, was high, and
you know, I think it's.
You know, you can make anargument that everybody says
that or, you know, everybody hada high desire to to be there,
but for me it wasn't.
It almost wasn't like a belief.

(35:57):
A belief to me is kind of likeyou're you're trying to convince
yourself.
For me it was.
It was either, you know, yeah,to me it was, I was just I
wasn't in the NHL and then Iwasn't until I was there.
It was like something I eithereither knew or I didn't know.
You know, and I knew that Iwould get there eventually and

(36:19):
so it was just a matter of timeand, um, you know, I guess at
that point in my life it's youdon't know that you're going to
be there, but you just, you juststay where you're at right now
and focus on just getting betterevery day.
And I knew that I was willing toput in a lot of work and I

(36:41):
think that's one of the thingsthat I'm most proud about about
my career is that the work ethicthat I had and the drive to
continue to get better.
I think you know you look atyoung players nowadays and
everybody wants to be the bestat a certain age and certainly
it's good to be up there towardsthe top.

(37:01):
But you know it's a marathonand you know I always had my dad
telling me that that it's amarathon, not a sprint, and you
just continue to work at yourgame and put in more work than
anybody else and then you justslowly just continue to pass
people and continue to getbetter and continue to rise, uh,

(37:22):
higher and higher.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Yeah, what?
Uh.
So when you say getting betterevery day and you know putting
in the work, what did that looklike for for a younger Duncan
Keith?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Uh well, I think I do think the game has changed a
lot now, where you know kids are, you know, putting in lots of
work, you know in lots of work,you know.
But when I was growing up andwhen you were growing up, I
don't think the emphasis wasthere quite as much.
I'm not saying it wasn't there,but I just I just think the you

(37:56):
know, the whole industry ofwhether it's a skills coach or,
um, you know, working on yourskills, or a skating coach or a
strength coach, and personaltrainers and and those whole
industries have kind of takenoff.
So, um, you know, players aretrying to be dialed in earlier
and earlier, where for me Inever really had any of that,

(38:17):
other than I had power skatinglessons once a week and it was
from a figure skater instructorand that was kind of my skating
coach and it was on the outdoorrinks and and I just knew that
if I, if I could get quicker,basically survival I was smaller
so I didn't want to get killedout there knowing that, hey,

(38:39):
some of these guys are prettybig and they're going to come
try to take your head off on theforecheck.
So you know you might want towork on your, your strength and
being quick so you could getback and um being scared more
than anything right, right,right, what?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
what?
How about we, if we, if wemaybe compartmentalize it and
take it from the ahl scenario?
So I mean, you come off a marioclub, you go to the AHL.
You mentioned Trent Yanni, agreat you know mentor and
motivator for you and coach tohelp you In that pro environment
where you know you're on theice every day, you're playing a
ton of games, you're travelingon the bus, a ton.

(39:17):
Do you feel like, how are youdifferentiating yourself with
your professionalism or yourapproach to your own personal
development in that, in that eraof your career?

Speaker 1 (39:27):
I don't really understand what you mean.
What do you what, what?
What do you mean when you'relike well what I'm.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
So I'm saying like, okay, so there'd be workouts.
I'm just trying to remember,like when I was in St John's
right, like there some guyswould leave right after practice
, some guys would stay, someguys would stay on the ice
longer, some guys would havetheir own you know, their own
method for for trying to get tothat next level for trying to be
better.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, makes sense.
I mean, I don't know, I thinksome of the guys that played
with me would probably laugh,you know, because I kind of
always uh, my guess what's theterm beat to your own drum a
little bit, you know, and havemy own way of doing things.
And you know, I, yeah, I think,like I don't want to say that I

(40:11):
felt like, you know, the offseasons were important for me.
I didn't really whether it waswhen I was 15, 14, 15, you know,
going back to those days whereI was worried that my buddies
would be getting better than meback home in Ontario because we
had outdoor rinks and here therewas no outdoor rinks.
So I became obsessed withplyometrics and shooting pucks

(40:37):
and putting in so many hoursthat I thought all my buddies
back home are going to be on theoutdoor rink getting better
than me.
And then it just kind ofprogressed and at 17, 16, 17, 18
, it's like I didn't really, youknow, have much of a life in
the off seasons and it was justkind of focused on getting
better, you know, all day really, and just thinking that you

(41:02):
know I'm going to put more workin than anybody and prove people
wrong.
And I think some of it had a.
You know, maybe I did have abit of a chip on my shoulder for
for being a little bit smaller,and you know, you hear you see
other players getting talkedabout or, you know, drafted
higher and and I'm sitting therethinking like, why am I not

(41:23):
getting?
Why, what are these scouts notseeing?
And and I don't think it wasany different than when I went
to to play in the minors.
It was just kind of that, thatsame mindset that just carried
on and um, and then, like I said, yeah, I was fortunate to have
a great coach and and greatteammates too.
You know, like, uh, I think Ithink, looking back to it, I I

(41:47):
feel like I, I, I use myteammates to my advantage in the
sense where you're learningfrom them all the time.
You know you're learning andgetting better from your
teammates, whether it's practiceor just how they do things, and
and always kind of taking inand and seeing what they do.
And, um, you know some thingsyou took to, you take and you

(42:09):
keep, and then other things youyou don't like and you throw it
out.
But, um, yeah, just trying tolearn from everybody and and we
had great.
I get a great leadership by justtalking to aj baines.
He was a old Kamloops Blazercaptain and he was our captain
in the minors and so we hadgreat leadership there.

(42:30):
Marty Wilford was another guy.
He never played in the NHL buthe could have arguably been.
Had he been a better skater, hecould have been playing for 20
years in the NHL.
I never saw him miss a pass inpractice.
It was.
It was.
It was honestly uh, littlethings like that that you kind
of learn.
It's like I learned so muchfrom those guys and and they

(42:50):
weren't, uh, you know, regular,everyday NHL players.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
So you just continue to learn and, and you know, take
things from your teammates and,and obviously, your coaches did
you, um, because I mean I'mlooking, I got your, I got your
your db up right now and I'm andI'm, and I'm looking at it and
in your years in norfolk, solike 25 points and 26 points,
you know, as a 21 and 22 yearold, or 20 and 21 year old, uh,

(43:18):
obviously nothing wrong withthose stats, but I mean, for
somebody looking at that, at thetime I probably wouldn't have
projected you to be a norristrophy winner in five seasons
after that.
Right, you know like to look atthat and that's exciting to me.
So, like did you, did you seethat coming for you?
Like, did you think that thatwas a potential?
Like, where was that internalbelief and and and with that
development arc that you had?

Speaker 1 (43:40):
well.
Well, I just knew that it wasalways there.
I think it's easy to look atthose stats and say, you know,
like you said, 25 points orwhatever it was, 21 points, 26
points.
It's nothing special.
But if you'd been followingalong my career day to day and
seeing what I was going through,it was, you know, very
different than something likethat.

(44:01):
You know, it's like I I wasn'teven on the power play um, the
first, I think, four or fiveyears of my pro career, you know
.
So part of that was Trent uh,basically trying to rewire me
into, you know, because I wasjumping into the play, offensive
and this and that.
But he was trying to get me tothink more defense, just focus

(44:25):
on defense.
Now you're just a defenseman,you're going to be quick
defensively, use your speed andquickness to break up plays and
then create offense that way,and so that's kind of how the
foundation of my game was set,you know, and even going into
the first two years in Chicago,it was like there was no power

(44:46):
play time.
You know what it's like when youget on the power if you're not
on the power play at all.
I wasn't even on a second unit.
You're just trying to get.
You know you're trying to makeplays five on five.
It's it's, you know, at pro, atthe pro level, it's nice to get
those cookies and you get thoseextra touches, and that's where
the defensemen that get a lotof points they're on the power

(45:08):
play.
So I think I always kind ofknew I had that in my game and
it was just kind of resettingeverything to focus on the
defense and then being able tobalance things out once I did
get that opportunity to play onthe power play.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
What an amazing correlation.
Like I think I told you at thegame there that I had Scott
Niedermeyer on who, his episodesgetting released actually today
.
One of the things that he talkedabout playing for Jacques
Lemaire was the frustration thathe personally had with how
Jacques wanted him to play Rightand how he wanted him to be a
defense mind, defensively minded, almost defense first type of

(45:47):
player at the beginning of hiscareer and and he kind of felt
like he had reins on him, youknow, and he said for like a
couple years it was super, superfrustrating for him but then
once he got it like kind of hisworld changed a little bit,
right.
I mean, obviously they won,they won cups, you know, because
of it, his, you know, he saidjust his evolution of a player,
and he wouldn't, he didn't, hedidn't think he would have been

(46:08):
the player he was without that,I mean that experience that he
had, which he hated at the time,right, like, how did you feel
about it?
Did you feel like you werebeing held back?
Or did you feel like hey, hey,I'm learning something that's
going to benefit me here downthe road?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
yeah, you know what I knew, that you know, at 20
years old I wasn't ready to playin the NHL.
So when Trent's coming to meand telling me what to do, you
know I'm all ears.
He's played 700 games in theleague and you know I believed
anything he said.
And um, and then at 21 therewas no NHL.
So that was another year for me, that was the year-long lockout

(46:42):
.
So that year you knew you weregoing to be in the minors and I
know I'm not on the power play,it's just.
You know I started to developsome confidence that year,
especially knowing, uh, I'm, youknow, playing against guys like
Jason Spezza, who was in theNHL the year prior, and other
players that were on still ontheir entry level deals and and

(47:04):
I feel like I'm shutting theseguys down and uh, maybe it
wasn't, it was probably minus atime or two, but you know, you
definitely get some confidencefrom that and and you know to
and, and yeah, just to know that.
Okay, well, I'm playing againstthese guys in the, these guys
that were in the NHL the yearprior and I'm doing well against

(47:26):
them.
And then you make it to the NHLat 22, 23.
And you know, as time went onthere I felt like, okay, I kind
of do feel like I'm being heldback a little bit and I'm still
not on the power play.
And it wasn't until I was about24 that I got on there on a
second unit.
And so, yeah, and you just kindof you, finally, you know,

(47:53):
break through on the power playand you're, you know, I guess,
have a little success and youknow, coach keeps putting you
out there Right.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
But the defensive side of the game for a
defenseman is really ultimatelycrucial, you know, so it sounds
like the longevity of yourcareer.
You know the success within theteam, success of, like, winning
these Stanley Cups and alsowinning your individual awards.
You know, winning yourindividual awards, you know you

(48:25):
were a complete player.
I guess, let's be honest, rightLike you weren't a one-trick
pony, you could defend.
You're a 200-foot defensemanand so maybe those formative
years of Norfolk and Chicago wasreally one of the things that
helped you become that.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, I really do believe that.
I mean, I think that, uh, Ithink probably, you know, if I
really look back on my career,even going back to minor hockey,
um, I was probably moredefensive minded in the first
place.
You know, the offense kind ofstarted to come when I came out
to BC and I was watching PavelBure lots on TV and wanting to

(49:03):
get faster and quicker.
But I think at the heart of mygame it was not getting scored
on and being hard to playagainst and taking guys' time
and space away and beingdefensive first.
If I could go back and do mycareer over again, which I kind
of joke around sometimes.

(49:24):
You look at some of these skillcoaches, it's you know I see
the way Makar moves along theblue line and Quinn Hughes and
the things that they do.
You know it would have been funto watch those guys and try to
take those things into your game.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to watch the, the
evolution of it.
Hey, what some of these guysare doing now and and, uh, and
yeah, it's funny, like my boyswill be like, oh, the game was
so different.
And or like, or the players arebetter.
I mean, yes, the players areare better, but it's just
because there's been anevolution to it, right, like you
could take mary lemieux oryourself and and and like, give

(50:01):
them the same resources and thesame ability to see what's going
on.
And like you could been walkingthe blue line, I'm sure, like
kyle mccarr does right now.
He just it wasn't really openas an option at that point, you
know yeah, I mean even the uh,the open mohawk.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Like just seeing players do that, like I never
did that once in my entirecareer opening, opening my hips
up like that I thought it lookeddumb.
You know, like I was like whywould you want to do that, you
know.
But it's like it makes senseright when you're, when you know
how to do it and you've seenhow important it is to be able

(50:35):
to do that now yeah, yeah,that's funny, uh, and so now,
yeah, so so your your own, yourown evolution there.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
You said you got on the pp.
Was that where the breakthroughwas like as far as from the,
the recognition from the leagueyou know as a, as a world-class
defenseman?
Like the year you popped up to69 points and and won, and one
year I think that was a year youwon your norris, right, or the
first norris, yeah, oh, nine,ten, uh, was that kind of when
it all came together.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
I think so the one year I was named to an All-Star
game and I think that might havebeen when I was 23 or 24.
I can't really remember.
I should know that.
And that was, you know, I feltat that point I didn't think I'm
like I'm not an All-Star, likeI'm not even really on the power

(51:24):
play yet.
You know, I felt at that pointI didn't think I'm like I'm not
an all star, like I'm not evenreally on the power play yet,
you know.
But our team in Chicago wasn'tgreat, but I certainly was.
You know, that was a bit of aconfidence boost too, and you
know, I think you're right,though, when it's not until you
you're on that top power playunit and also, I think, having

(51:46):
team success.
You know, it's like once youhave success as a group and as a
team, then you get thatindividual recognition a little
bit more and and rightfully so,I think, in a lot of ways.
So the team started to performand we started to get more
players and, you know, you're inthose important games more and

(52:08):
more, and it just kind of grewfrom there.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Yeah, what a special time and I know you've probably
done a bazillion interviewsabout it.
Just, you know, patrick Kaneand Taves and yourself and Hossa
and like the you know a bunchof you kind of almost seem like
growing up together.
I mean, by the time you won thecup, I mean Kane was 20, you're
26.
So you've been into your careerfor a little bit, but what was

(52:32):
it?
What was it like seeing thesepieces get added and kind of
knowing that you might've hadsomething special there.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, it was, uh, it was fun.
It was a fun time.
I, you know, keep in contact,obviously, with lots of those
guys and, um, yeah, you know,when you're all young and, like
you said, 20 to 26, and I was anolder guy I felt like on the
team, you know, most of the guyswere 24, 23 and and you know

(52:58):
we'd all go out as a team afterthe game and it felt like
juniors, but we're in the nhland and, uh, you know we'd all
go out as a team after the gameand it felt like juniors, but
we're in the NHL.
And you know, I remember, justeven after practice, you know,
guys would be having lunch orwhatever, sitting around and
hanging out in the lounge and itwould be like two hours, two
and a half, three hours afterpractice and the lounge was

(53:20):
still full.
So guys really got along umwell and and and we were, you
know, uh, it was a fun group tobe a part of and, yeah,
definitely, uh, great memoriesdid you see that change, the
social aspect of it?

Speaker 2 (53:34):
uh, like the players I work with now you mean I I'm
I've been out of the gameforever as a player but like
there was still a lot ofcommunity, right, there was a
lot of you know going out for asa player, but like there was
still a lot of community, right,there was a lot of you know
going out for the long lunch,you know like there was
definitely some beers involved.
You know like we there therewas that type of crumb
camaraderie.
It sounds like that that's sortof been removed and it makes

(53:55):
sense in a lot of ways just withsocial media and phones and
everything else, right, thatthat that guys are, you know,
subjected to.
But yeah, during the course ofyour 1,200 games, did you see a
shift in how guys hung outtogether and bonded?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yeah, I mean my first couple of years there I think
it was Curtis Brown was the onlyguy that had an iPhone.
I still had a Discman andheadphones and you know.
So there was just a lot moreconversations and card games.
I know they still play cardsand things like that, but you
know, in general it's like aftera flight you get on the bus.
It's pretty quiet, where Iremember times where we're just

(54:33):
getting on the bus driving tothe hotel or you know, and it's
just loud and it's just know.
You don't ever get that veryoften anymore.
It's just quiet and everybody'son their phone or checking
their messages and you know it's.
I thought that that's what itwas definitely a different time
and and in a lot of ways, a lotmore fun.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I hate sounding like a dinosaur,
but I really like I love thefricking bus, Like I loved it
because, like that's, I hatesounding like a dinosaur, but I
really like I love the freakingbus, like I loved it because
like that's what you were doing,you were with the guys, you
were.
I mean, either you read right.
That would be like the onlything you could kind of do by
yourself is you would read Someguys would do that at the front

(55:19):
of the bus or whatever or maybeyou had like a somebody telling
a joke, like whatever.
Yeah and uh and god, there wasthere's a lot of, there's a lot
of I don't know.
Like that's some of the beststuff of the game.
I think you know, and I reallyfeel that some of these teams
are missing that now yeah, Iagree.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
uh, it's almost like they should implement a rule and
then they would see that youknow the you get to know your
teammates better and you, theywould see that you know you get
to know your teammates betterand they would.
You know everybody kind of.
You see different sides to theperson, right when you're
talking and conversing with themor joking around, and
everybody's involved too.
It's not just one or two guys,it's you know five or you know

(55:58):
10 guys in a whole, likeconversation and joking around
or different pockets of playerschatting and laughing on the bus
, yeah, and the plane too, andit's just, yeah, it's just
different now, and it is.
I agree, I don't want to soundlike a dinosaur either, but it's
just.
It's too bad that you know thattechnology has kind of

(56:20):
transformed it a bit.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Yeah, it's kind of keeping teams apart.
I think I think there's somegood stuff that they could do
there.
Some coaches have, like done ano phone policy on buses or some
some scenarios.
I think that's an interestingthing to explore as a coach if
you get the team involved in it,right.
I think if you ask the team,hey, like this could be an
alternative to what you're doingright now, maybe it's better.
Are you willing to try?
You know, instead of likeforcing it down their throats,

(56:42):
like maybe there's some, maybethere's some buy-in there, but
uh, but yeah, anyways, I lovethe bus trips, I love the plane
rides, you know.
I mean I love the afterpractice time, you know, being
with the guys that was, that wassome of the best stuff of the
game and and being a pro well,even being a junior, tons of fun
.

(57:03):
Take a short break from thepodcast to talk about the UMH 68
and the sponsorship title,sponsorship position that is
available right now for the UMH68.
Again, who is going to be thepeople that you touch by being a
sponsor?
That is, the top level playersin their province, at their age

(57:25):
group.
So and there's 68 of them them.
So we're doing this in fivedifferent events this year.
So this is over 300 of let'suse the word elite players in
their province.
They are the influencers oftheir age group.
They are the people that otherkids want to be like, want to
play like, want to be on theirteams with, and definitely the

(57:48):
type of player that you wantyour product in or around.
So a huge opportunity here toget involved with the UMH 68 in
its growing, expanding state.
We plan to do almost double theevents next year.
We want to bring on a girlsdivision as well as offering the

(58:09):
two age groups the minor uh,minor uh, bantam and major
peewee age groups in eachprovince.
So, yes, this, the umh 68, isgoing nowhere, but up and uh.
Now is the time to take on atitle sponsorship role.
I am having conversations,outside of this podcast, of
course, with uh, with interestedpeople, but if this speaks to
you, if you are an owner of acompany, if you are involved in

(58:32):
a, you know whatever it doesn'thave to be a hockey product, but
if it is a hockey product,great, and want to be involved
in amateur sport and support areally, really great experience
in the UMH 68 Invitational thatgrows people as well as the
player and brings peopletogether for education and
development purposes, then thismight be something that speaks

(58:54):
to you.
And again, you can reach out tome at jasonupmyhockeycom or you
can leave a contact message onthe website or on any social
media channel.
Jason Padolan as well at IG orat the UMH 68.
That is also on ig.
So lots of ways to reach out.
But would love to collaboratewith like-minded uh brands and
corporations that want to getinvolved of a of a pretty cool

(59:16):
expanding brand.
All right, let's get back to thediscussion with duncan keith
from a leadership standpoint.
I've heard a ton of storiesabout Taves.
I know that you were a leaderin your own right too.
That topic's come up on mypodcast lots.
I mean leadership styles, howto do it, what means good

(59:38):
leadership, what would you sayabout leadership and maybe what
you learned from some of theguys you played with?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, I played with so many guys that were great
leaders in their own way.
You know, I talked about ajbaines and my first captain in
the minors and to me what Iwould always stuck with him,
stuck with me about him, wasjust how positive he was, no
matter what, you know, and itwas just like everything was a
positive um, and then I, andthen a guy like Marty Wilford,

(01:00:08):
where it was like his practicehabits and you know, uh, he
could, no matter what happenedaway from the rink or anything.
It was always like when thegame was on, when, when he was
on the ice and he was, he wasdialed in and he was performing
and whether it was practice orpractices or games, and so I

(01:00:29):
felt like I learned a lot fromfrom my captains that I that I
played with and leaders beforebefore me, and for me it was
always, I think, everybody'sdifferent.
You know there's differentkinds of leadership styles and
Taves was certainly a greatleader.
We had great leaders with thatgroup and Seabrook and Sharp and
Hossa and, you know, guys likeAndrew Ladd.

(01:00:53):
There was, like, you know, theguys that got a lot of the
attention but other players thatmaybe didn't get as much
attention but you know, werehuge parts of our success as a
group because of the way theyled and the things they did.
And for me it was always just,you know, competing and and
trying to be a hard player toplay against and be ready to go,

(01:01:15):
and knowing that you know myteammates, I guess you know
wanting my teammates to think ofme as a guy that they'd won on
their team going into battle,that you know to think of me as
the guy that they'd won on theirteam going into battle, that
you know, that knows it's goingto show up for whether it's a
shinny hockey game or a StanleyCup final, and compete as hard

(01:01:37):
as I can.
I think part of you knowleadership too is trying to
include everybody in the groupand making everybody feel a part
of the team and, um, you know,you get.
You get, especially the higherlevels where lots of guys,
certain guys, get a lot of theattention in terms of the media

(01:01:58):
and uh, but it's a lot of timesthose guys that you know play
five to nine minutes a night andand those guys are the life of
the wrestling room and andplanning, you know, parties and
team dinners and doing things,and and they're just as
important as the guys that arescoring, uh, 40 goals yeah, yeah
, I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Uh, it reminds me of a conversation I had on this
podcast with brad larson um,probably remember that name and
he was a coach even this yearwith the assistant uh, I mean
assistant coach with the calvaryflames.
He told a story of when he wasplaying for colorado and they
had that really like crazy team.
That was when colorado anddetroit were going at each other

(01:02:39):
, uh, tooth and nail.
You know tons of hall of famerson his team and, and he was, he
was in a minimal fourth linerole, right, but he said that,
like Sakic and those guys likeForsberg, like they made him
feel like a hugely importantpiece of what was going on there
.
You know, like whether it was ahit that they would talk to him
about or something, a backcheck that he had or the way he

(01:03:00):
competed in practice, and hesaid he just learned a lot from
that.
You know, like being a guywho's maybe could be overlooked
in some scenarios, but he feltlike those guys made him feel
important and valuable and andwhat a and that made him better.
Right, like to your point, likethat makes everyone better and
if you're going to win achampionship, everyone has to be
feeling really good aboutthemselves.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Yeah, for sure.
I think one of the things thatI admired about Quenville as our
coach is that, you know he,everybody has a role and it's
it's like there's times where Ilook back on some of the teams
that we had and and, uh, youknow that that fourth line in in
2014 I know we didn't win thatyear, but we went to the
conference finals and we had areally good team and that fourth

(01:03:43):
line that year was they wereplaying their their 10 to 12
minutes a night, but they werecounted on to penalty kill and
close big games out in the lastfew minutes of the the game,
when the game was on the line,and so, uh, that might have been
, uh, kind of an extreme case,but like, um, you know, it's

(01:04:03):
just, it is everybody and youneed a team to win.
If everybody feels a part ofthe team and feels like they
have a role and some sort ofworth, then you're going to be
needed come playoff time if youwant to win, to have that depth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
You mentioned hard-to-play games quite a few
times.
Again, you were not a bigimposing defenseman and you
never had a ton of penaltyminutes, but you were recognized
as somebody that would go tobattle.
There's different ways tocompete and you've mentioned
that word a lot and I love thatword.
I think it's one of thegreatest assets you can have as

(01:04:42):
a hockey player.
How did you define that foryourself?
As far as how you werecompetitive and hard to play
against?

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
uh, for me, I would just say it was using my
quickness to take time and spaceaway.
So, being on guys quick intheir face right away, uh,
intensity in a puck battle, uh,you know, obviously not being
the biggest guy out there so toto be able to just throw a guy
off the puck, it's, it's notreally going to work.
So, you know, it came down tobeing just simply raising the

(01:05:13):
level of intensity in thatbattle and being quicker and
more intense into that, into the, into the fight, and uh, um, I
think quickness for me was wasis big.
But, uh, you know, um, yeah, Iwould just look at it as simple
as taking time and space away,getting into that battle quick

(01:05:36):
as you can and then and thentrying to get separate the puck
and then getting out of there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Yeah, you, I, when I'm, when I'm talking with with,
I want to hear your opinion onthis.
So I talk about differentcontrollables, right, when I'm
talking with with, I want tohear your opinion on this.
So I talk about differentcontrollables right when I'm
working with my athletes andwhat they, what they can control
, and I, what I think are bigvalue pieces for players.
And one is effort, like the,the, the ability to work hard,
and the other one is competitivespirit and and, and I classify

(01:06:02):
them as different things andsometimes, you know, players
have a hard time understandingthe difference.
But you can work hard to getinto a battle, to use the story
you just told, but then, onceyou get to that place, you use
the word intensity.
I think that there's a differentpiece of the puzzle that shows
up, and that's what I call acompetitive spirit.
What are you willing to do inthat environment?

(01:06:25):
And I do think that that is acontrollable.
Can we elevate that and howmuch can you elevate that?
Because you mean to yourself,you're saying that you probably
want a lot of battles as anunderside guy just because you
were more intense in that battle.
Like, do you?
How do you feel about that,that differentiation?
Do you see the a correlationthere as far as between effort
and uh and competitive spirit?

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
yeah, I do.
I mean, obviously, like yousaid, there is levels to you
know working hard or you knowgoing in there like your, your,
your life is on the line.
You know like it's life ordeath if you can.
Somebody told you that you knowyou got to get this puck off of
his stick.
You know, and obviously I had,like I mentioned before, I had

(01:07:12):
great coaching, especially withTrent, on technical ability, on
how to do that, and working onmy quickness.
But that, yeah, the mindsetthat you're going to find a way,
no matter what, and you know,find a way to do this and get it

(01:07:34):
off there and get it done, asopposed to just kind of you know
, whether you're riding a bikeand you're just, you know, on a
on a stationary bike, you'rejust kind of going through the
motions or you think you'regoing hard, but there's just
kind of other levels to pushingyourself.
So, um, yeah, I like that termcompetitive, what was it?

(01:07:55):
Competitive spirit?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
competitive spirit.
I say yeah, and and I mean itmeans intensity, like I like you
just saying, boiling it down tothat, like how how can you
raise your intensity in thosemoments to you know, to give
yourself the advantage to to win?
Because it is a battle ofattrition a lot and which is one
of the reasons I love hockey inour sport right Is that there's
different ways to be successful.
It's not just about the guywith the most skill is going to

(01:08:20):
win, right, it's, there's theseother things that get involved
in it, and tenacity and will anddrive and intensity are such
huge factors and, and I think inan era right now where the
skill is so high that I believethat a differentiator for those
players can be what I just said,like that's not as high.

(01:08:41):
I don't think you know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
I mean in some aspects the second and third and
fourth efforts.
You know, and, um, you know,just like off of a face off,
right, it's sometimes it's notthat that first swipe, uh, where
you're going to win theface-offs.
A lot of times it's that secondand third effort to win that
face off and I was never acenterman, but you know, that's

(01:09:04):
something that I talked to ourcenterman on is is, you know,
staying in that in that littlebattle until you finally won
that puck back.
It's just sticking with it thatextra longer, extra two seconds
longer to to try to fight towin it back.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
And, um, you know, I think that, uh, people notice
that and you know, when itsticks out now, almost, you know
, with players that have that, Igotta ask you, uh, just I just
remembered so, christobal huay,we have a, we have a teammate, a
former teammate of ours, uh, inconnection, and so christobal,

(01:09:42):
he was with you.
Oh, nine, and maybe yourstanley cup here, I'm not 100%
sure exactly the years, butgoalie for everyone listening
and a really good goalie.
I mean.
He had a lot of success in theNHL.
I think he was an all-star theone year he came to Germany,
when I was there, the year ofthe lockout, and to this day

(01:10:03):
I've honestly never seen a morecompetitive goalie and I played
with a lot of competitivegoalies and a lot of good
goalies.
But this guy in germany, in alockout year as an nhler, just
showed up every freaking day anddid not want to get scored on
right, like I know guys don'twant to get scored on, but like
it was a battle to get a puckpast him in practice and I had

(01:10:25):
the most respect for him.
He was so much fun.
Uh, in the locker room.
Anyways, what was your was that?
Was that what you remember ofcrystal ball in in the in the
black?

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
box environment.
When you say fun, yeah, that'sthe first thing that I.
I remember him about him as uh,you know, just such a fun
teammate to be around and uh,yeah, he, uh, he was a great
teammate.
I haven't seen him in a longtime and I, you know it'd be
great to connect with him.
I haven't talked to him in awhile either, but he uh, um,

(01:10:56):
yeah, great memories of him withhim and, uh, he was definitely
a competitive, competitive guyand I think he was a big part of
the reason why it helped pushus to end up doing what we did
and push our goalie, ante Niemi,in that too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Yeah, because they kind of split duty that year.
So did Niemi take over kind ofin playoffs.
Is that what happened in thatrun?

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
And you know, for whatever reason I think you know
sometimes the goalie gets hot.
But yeah, they definitely helpone another.
But the biggest thing for mewhen I remember Huey was just
you know how, you know, I knowhe was competitive but he always
seemed happy and having a goodtime with the guys.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Yeah, yeah, he maybe speak on the competitiveness we
talked about, competitive spiritof of goalies, cause that's one
thing that that I as a player,as a player in practice, like
sometimes goalies are standingthere and they don't really give
a crap, sometimes right, evensome number ones have.

(01:12:02):
I've had goalies that have beenlike that.
Or you have the guy that doesnot want to get scored on and
for me as a as a goal scorer, asa forward, like that was that
really amped me up right and itgot my, my level higher and I
think that there's so much valuefor goalies that are, that are
competitive.
Can you, can you, speak to that?
Do you share that, that, thatthat philosophy, with me?

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
yeah, it's nice to see goalies like that.
Um, you know, I heard storiesthat dominic hasik would, uh,
you know, in practice never wantto be scored on and never want
to even have a puck just sittingin his net.
And, uh, you know, that's oneof the things I remember about
crawford.
Uh, it was just like he waswhenever we were practicing.

(01:12:41):
He was always like treating itlike it was game situation and
and never wanted to be scored onever, you know.
So, um, it makes it.
It makes it fun and makes theplayers better too, because they
know they're coming in and it'sa, it's a little internal
competition, and you know, andthen you're bragging rights
after practice, or you can gointo the line and and give a

(01:13:03):
chirp and, uh, you know, andthat's next time you come down
on the goalie you better score,or you know.
So it makes practice fun.
I think, too, it's thatcompetitiveness and everybody
pushing one another and goaliesare part of that that I think
sometimes gets forgotten.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Yeah, I agree, I really I think there's so much
value for well, one, theposition.
I've always had immense amountsof respect for the position
itself.
Like they're, they're frickingplaying a different game right,
it's still called hockey, butit's completely different game
that everyone else on the ice isplaying.
Um, so you know, they'reisolated in that sense.
There's such a key component ofthe of the team, uh and and the

(01:13:41):
mental, you know the, themental side of the game for them
is second to none.
So I've always respected thatspot and I really have always
loved goalies, that play.
They definitely made me better.
If you were to give any, youknow I said we'd go for about an
hour and here we are, we'reabout at that hour mark.
Is this thought?
Maybe we could wind her up Like1,250 games, dude, three cups.

(01:14:03):
You know how many more.
You know Olympic experiencesand you know how many more you
know olympic experiences and youknow international experiences
is there?
Is there one thing for you thatis like your, your crown jewel,
like that you're most proud ofof all the things you're able to
, to accomplish?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
um, I don't know.
I mean, when I look at some ofthe teams that I played on, you
know, I just look at so manygreat teammates and so many you
know relationships that weremade that will be, you know,
lifetime friends, and you know,certainly, the Stanley cups and
the gold medals, when I look atthose, those championships it

(01:14:46):
was, they're just incredibleexperiences and it's hard for me
to kind of pick one, you know.
Um, you know, I think, I thinkmaybe something that I'm proud
of and it's it's not necessarily, uh, like a, a championship or,
you know, an individual trophyor anything like that.
For me it's uh just proud ofthe fact that, as an undersized

(01:15:14):
defenseman, that I made itthrough that jungle, you know,
and I, you know, felt healthyand I could feel like if I, you
know, really put in sometraining, I could still feel
really good again.
You know, put in some training,I could still feel really good
again, you know.
So it's just I'm proud of thefact that you know I was, I
didn't miss a ton of games forinjury and I was proud of the

(01:15:38):
fact that, yeah, I never missedvery many games from injury and
you know the work that I put inthere.
So for me that's kind ofsomething that I yeah.
I look back on and knowing thatyou know sometimes you get some
bad luck or a bad break, or youknow a puck deflects off and can
catch it.
No doubt that I've had my fairshare of injuries, but just

(01:16:01):
being able to get out of thegame and feel healthy and now be
able to coach my son and enjoy,enjoy life yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
yeah, well, and that's the thing, right, like,
and I and I can't relate to itat all play 10 years pro but not
1250 games in the nhl.
You know, like that's, you haveto do something in that, in
that chronology, like there's anevolution to your game, there's
also an adaptation, I wouldassume, to your game.

(01:16:33):
Right, like to play that longyou fill different roles at
different times.
You maintain value.
I would think that there mustbe a sense of pride in being
able to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, that's another one whereyou know the ability to adapt to
different situations ordifferent roles and continue to
add, layer, different layers toyour game and and continue to
learn.
I think without that, you knowit's it's hard to you know to to

(01:17:05):
stick around as long as I did.
It was a blast.
You know how fun it can be.
We talked about being with theguys and just all that downtime,
whether you're on the road orat home.
I loved it and I loved everyminute of it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
I think it comes from passion, I think it comes from
a love of it, the willingness towant to do it as far as a
message to the listeners rightnow talking about that
adaptability and thatwillingness to get better, isn't
that a mindset?
Isn't that a conscious choiceto want to evolve and want to
adapt?
I think that needs to be therefor it to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
I think that's a choice for players if they want
to be or not yeah, and I thinkthat's a good point, and for
sure you know, knowing that noteverything goes your way.
You know.
You can look at some of thebest players in the world.
Whether it's Sidney Crosby, not, everything goes his way,
whether it's a bounce or youknow whatever.
You know whether it's a bounceor you know whatever you know.

(01:18:07):
Maybe the margin is different,but there's still times where
you face adversity and it's kindof how do you react?
How do you, when you getknocked down, do you get back up
and do you continue to fightand fight harder, or do you?
You know, like you hadmentioned before, do you get
demoralized?
If you're, you know, like youmentioned before, do you get

(01:18:28):
demoralized?
If you're?
You know it's that, thatmindset that you're just going
to continue to, to keep fightingand keep finding a way, and you
can't keep a good dog down yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
I'm glad you brought up sydney because a lot of it,
like I know my boys they don'tremember when sydney was not
able to play for like a seasonbecause of his concussion.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Yeah, exactly and look how he kind of bounced back
.
It was like everybody thoughtthat you know, we always talk
like other players were the bestin the world.
And it was like you know, hejust kind of put his head down
and you knew that he was goingto.
You know, I didn't, you didn'tknow, but obviously that's who
he is.
You didn't know, but obviouslythat's who he is.
And so he kind of grit histeeth and and did what he had to

(01:19:09):
do to kind of keep his careermoving along in the same way
where he is the best player.
And then they went two cups, youknow, back to back.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Oh it's crazy yeah.
It's crazy.
Anyways, man, I reallyappreciate your time.
Uh, awesome to have such agreat hockey group here in the
Okanagan Valley.
We're blessed with how manyex-pros there are and high-level
pros and now giving back to thegame through your kids and
their kids.
Actually, maybe we should tellthe listeners that dream team

(01:19:38):
that you had there for springhockey last year.
Who was on the bench with youagain?

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Oh yeah, our soldier hockey team there we had uh
siebes, uh brent seabrook, cambarker and myself coaching, so
yeah, it was.
Uh, it was fun.
Three defensemen.
So I don't know, maybe theforwards got the shaft a little
bit, but oh, I think they werejust fine, but yeah that's them
how to play some defense too,yeah that's kind of like me for

(01:20:06):
everyone listening to this.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Obviously there's listeners from all over the
world here, but that's sort ofthe hockey depth that we have
here.
On a local spring team for10-year-olds, you may have some
Stanley Cup champions andfirst-round draft picks and
Norris Trophy winners behind thebench.
It's pretty fun.
My youngest, mike Smith heplays against in Kelowna and

(01:20:29):
Byron Ritchie is on that benchright Like Wade Redd is also on
that bench.
So you mean how many thousandsof games are on that bench here
locally?
So yeah, it's kind of JaredSmith in the 700 game.
Nhl coaches TJ, my youngestright now.
So there's definitely lots ofNHLers around and it's fun that
everyone's giving back.
So thank you for doing thisagain, for you giving back,
because I think theconversations matter and lots to

(01:20:52):
learn from your career.
So thanks, duncan, for comingon.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Jason.
It was good seeing you lastweekend there.
Cool, see you on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Thanks.
It was a fun one, as usual waswas easy to get a hold of super
humble, down to earth for a guywho as is as accomplished as he
is.
It's one of the things that Ilove about our sport is that
it's very rare that you aregoing to run into anyone who has
a big head, who is hard to dealwith, who who is unapproachable
and if anyone would qualifywith the right to be

(01:21:33):
unapproachable, it is somebodywith his resume, someone that's
won the amount of cups that he'swon, that's been on the stages
he's been in, that's won theaccolades that he's had and he's
nothing but that at all.
Um, seems very humble, uh,seems like if he I don't know if
you noticed throughout theinterview, but how often he

(01:21:54):
talked about teammates and howoften he remembered teammates
and again, a lot of the namesthat he mentioned weren't the
stars that he played with,weren't the big names.
He was talking about the guysthat were in the trenches with
him.
You know the aj baines is ofthe world.
That majority of you listeninghad probably never heard of AJ
Baines before.
I know who AJ Baines wasbecause I played against him,

(01:22:15):
but generally outside of thegeneral, you know the general
hockey fan wouldn't know thatname.
And here that is somebody thatthat Duncan Keith gives a shout
out to and remembers you know,and and some of the other names
that that didn't maybe have bigNHL careers that he brought up
and he kept thanking histeammates and the experience and
environment of his teammates.
And, and there there is thelesson I believe, like the

(01:22:37):
another lesson of of thatdiscussion with Duncan is is
well, one I love the idea of thedevelopment arc of him, what he
, what he came, what he became,became, his mental approach to
his development and his beliefin what was about to happen for
him and what was going to happenfor him.
But also the idea that it'sabout more than just you right,

(01:22:59):
like he was a part of a system,a part of an environment, part
of a culture in Chicago there atthe time that was about winning
and it was about taking care ofeach other and it was about
going to war for the guy next toyou.
All the things, and call themcliche or not, but they are the
things that resonate with me andwith hockey and the players

(01:23:21):
that get it.
They will go farther asindividuals, they will be better
as individuals, and that issomething that I do believe can
be taught.
It's a perspective, right, youhave to understand the
perspective.
And once you understand theperspective and that this is
valuable, you can choose tocelebrate teammates.

(01:23:42):
You can choose to want tosacrifice for the team.
You can choose to make thesethings a priority for you in
your own dna.
And, uh and yeah, duncan is agreat example of what makes
hockey great.
You know the idea that it isabout more than I.
It takes 20 to win, and itreally does take 20 to win, and
if winning is important to you,you're gonna have to make some

(01:24:03):
sacrifices along the way, nomatter how damn good you are.
Uh, and that was recognizedalso in the scott niedermeyer
interview.
So great lessons here the lastlittle while.
I hope you guys were able topick up on it and I hope it
starts to start some discussionsin your own house and in your
own cars.
So, uh, thanks for being hereagain, thanks for listening,
thanks for being a part of theup my hockey, uh, up my hockey

(01:24:24):
world, and until next time.
You know what to do.
You play hard and you keep yourhead up.

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EP.149 - From the Minors to an NHL Legend: Duncan Keith's Journey of Resilience and Triumph

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP.149 - From the Minors to an NHL Legend: Duncan Keith's Journey of Resilience and Triumph