EP.152 - Unlocking Hockey Excellence: Mental Toughness and Personal Development with Vinny Maltz - Up My Hockey with Jason Podollan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I always loved when you brought that up because
it's like that's exactly it.
Right there is that you have tohave that framework in your
head of, if we're talking aboutpersonal development, it's
personal to you, where nobodyelse knows your journey.
We all know it like no onereally knows.
What background did you comefrom?
How did you grow up?
You know what have you workedon in your own process?

(00:21):
How much time have you put intodeveloping certain parts of
your process?
How often do you talk to yourline mates about what you're
doing in that play?
And on and on.
And if you talk to most playersthey stink at personally
explaining their process.
They can explain the team'sprocess, but if you talk to them
and have a dialogue of like,can you explain your process?
How many of them can actuallyarticulate that?

(00:42):
They're better at articulatingwhat everybody else is telling
them and terrible atarticulating what they think.
What are we doing?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
that was mental performance coach vinnie maltz,
and you are listening to episode152 of the up my hockey podcast

(01:19):
with jason padola oh, oh, oh,oh oh, who played 41 NHL games
but thought he was destined fora thousand.
Learn from my story and thoseof my guests.
This is a hockey podcast aboutreaching your potential.
Hello there, this is JasonPadolan and you are listening to
the Up my Hockey podcast withJason Padolan, and you're here
for episode 152.

(01:40):
So welcome to that episode.
If you happen to be new hereand this is your first time,
fantastic.
We love having new listeners tothe program.
And if you are an old faithful,we appreciate you just the same
.
It's amazing how many peoplehave been reaching out, it seems
, lately, just either saying youknow, thanks for the podcast,
or we appreciate the podcast.

(02:01):
And now that I actually saythat out loud, it actually has a
lot to do with the UMH 68,which is a lot of invites are
going out right now.
So that's my invitationaltournament in the spring where
we develop and educate and alsoshowcase some of the best talent
in the Western provinces, andwe're doing it under the Up my
Hockey kind of holisticdevelopment umbrella, which is

(02:23):
what makes the event, uh, uniquein its own right.
So, uh, with these invites thatgo out, people come back and
you know they either obviouslyaccept the invitation or they
have to decline it for whateverreason schedule or otherwise.
And there's been a lot ofpeople in this uh response
saying hey, thank you very muchfor the podcast.
We listen to it all the time.
Uh, when I'm out at tournamentsnow or weekends, there's

(02:46):
players that come up andintroduce themselves and say
that they've been listening tothe show.
So it's kind of crazy.
I mean, I operate in this littlekind of microcosm of my office
where I record these things andI'm really not out and about too
much, unless it's for hockeyand watching one of my boys play
.
I'm not the most social man inthe world.

(03:06):
So, uh, you kind of get lost inyour own world, right?
You?
Just I'm doing the day to day,I do the work, uh that makes up
my hockey run, whether it be thepodcast, or, you know, serving
my clients, or developing theprograms, or or, or, or, right,
the list goes on and on and uh,and you don't have a chance to
have those conversations which I, I really really do value and
cherish, and it's awesome when Iam able to have the

(03:27):
conversation or receive theemail that says, hey, we
appreciate what you do andthanks for doing it.
And that is really what thisvehicle is.
This podcast is meant to be away that we can give back to the
hockey community or myself andmy guests can give back to the
hockey community in a free, lowbarrier way where you can learn,

(03:49):
hopefully educate yourselvesand apply it to your own journey
, your own pathway and whatyou're doing.
I think that's super importantbecause there's information
everywhere if you want to use it, and that's one of the things
that I work with players on.
When it's in a businessenvironment, you know when
people are actually paying formy services.
One of the things that I workwith players on when it's in a
business environment, you knowwhen people are actually paying
for my services.
One of the things that we'retalking about is the ability to

(04:11):
have a growth mindset, theability to recognize
opportunities, to learn to askquestions, not only from others
but to yourself, about yourselfand and as, maybe as crazy that
sounds to some people out therethis is like earth shattering
stuff when it comes todevelopment that piece of the

(04:32):
puzzle, the piece of usinginformation and applying the
information, which I love andwhich I geek out about and which
also Vinnie Maltz, who is theguest on the show today, geeks
out about.
We are definitely brothers fromanother mother when it comes to
our perception of how thisworks, about how performance
works, how our mentalperceptions and awareness either

(04:57):
hurt us or benefit us when itcomes to our performance and
also in our development, and wecould legitimately talk forever
and so, as far as Vinny goes,vinny is an ex-player.
There's only a few of us, kindof in this field of, you know,
mental fitness, whatever youwant to call it that have played

(05:18):
.
You know most of the peoplethat are involved, I would say,
have not played and then havegotten certification or letters
after their name, you know,through academia, which is 100%
okay and I have zero issues withthat serving a very valuable
purpose to many, many athleteseverywhere around the world.
Yet, for some players, they dolike to work with players or

(05:42):
people who feel like they havebeen in their skates before,
have been on the same road asthem, have been in the locker
rooms.
They want to be to and canspeak from personal experience
when it comes to a lot of thisstuff and Vinny is one of those
guys.
He was a hockey player.
He was a drafted hockey player.
He played in the QMJHL for theOlympic, the Hall Olympic, and

(06:04):
he was drafted by the VancouverCanucks.
He was never able to play inthe NHL games but he did play
pro for a while.
He was in the jungle, he was inthe grind in the East Coast
League and in the United Leagueand in the Western Professional
League.
So you know he was working hisass off to try and get paid or
to get paid to play this gamethat he loves.
And then he transitioned intoscouting and then he really

(06:26):
understood the value of themental game and then got into
working with athletes and teamsand has kind of gone up the
ladder when it comes to that.
You know he's now working withthe Edmonton Oilers.
He is the mental performancecoach of the Oilers.
I'm not sure exactly what thetitle is.
I might've got that wrong, um,but he is.
He is working, uh, at the NHLlevel.

(06:48):
He has worked previously, uh,with the Danbury hat tricks and
the uh and the.
Who else was it here?
I'll just look on his DB.
Oh, the Indy fuel, um, he'sworked with as well as the
Danbury junior hat tricks, andyeah, I mean, and he's's, and
he's working with athletes too,with his company called
bloodline bloodline hockey.
If, if, uh, if you want tocheck him out and see what he's

(07:09):
doing he's been in the space fora long time and uh, and yeah,
it's really fun to chat with himnow there in and of itself.
So I've had a few conversationswith people talking to me about,
like, well, why would you bringon, you know, allenstein jr, or
why would you bring on you know, allen Stein Jr, or why would
you bring on Vinnie Maltz, whenthey are in the same doing the
same thing?
You are, aren't you feel likeyou're, you know, promoting

(07:29):
somebody else or taking awayfrom your own business, and like
that is such a fixed mindsetway to think about business.
At least for me, that is Like Ihave zero issue with talking to
Vinnie and bringing Vinnie inand talking about what is
important to him and how hehelps athletes.
There is a lot, or there are alot, of hockey players in this

(07:51):
world and some may be drawn toVinny, and some of you today who
are listeners in my programmight think that you know what
Vinny has to say and the way hesays it is something that you're
really drawn to and I encourageyou to reach out to him.
Like that's the way this thingworks.
Um, there's not one messengerfor everybody out there, and the
idea is is to allow players toplay their best, and if that

(08:15):
messenger is Vinny, and if thatvehicle is is how Vinny teaches
things, then by all means I ammore than happy to promote Vinny
.
Uh, I think collaboration isfantastic.
Anytime I have an opportunity tospeak to somebody well, anyone
in that regard, but someone inthe same space who has been
doing this and, in Vinny's case,who's been doing it for longer
than I have.
There's obviously things tolearn from him that has made him

(08:36):
successful, and the insightsthat he's had and the way that
he goes about his business arethings that I can definitely
learn from.
So there's that idea of thegrowth mindset, right, like I
want to surround myselfpersonally on the day-to-day
with people who can teach methings.
It's almost like a selfishthing in some respects, right,

(08:56):
like how can Vinny help expandmy world?
And when you approach thatrelationship and the
conversations that way, you endup asking a lot of questions.
You end up being very curiousabout the person and where
they're coming from, and, um andyeah, and you develop deeper
relationships and you alsoextract information.
So, yeah, as far as me beingworried about not being busy

(09:17):
enough or losing clients I mean,that is totally not my thing Um
, it's, it's.
I'm super grateful that it'sgoing completely the opposite
direction very busy, almost toobusy, which is why I was doing
the call out for associatecoaches, which has been so fun,
because that's attracted someamazing people and if you are
actually listening to this andthat speaks to you.
I haven't done thatannouncement in a while, but if
you would like to work within Upmy Hockey and beside me or with

(09:40):
me and help athletes in thegrowth mindset aspect, in their
mental fitness aspect andgrowing strong, confident, with
me, and help athletes in thegrowth mindset aspect, in their
mental fitness aspect andgrowing strong, confident hockey
players out there who arestriving to reach the potential
and know how to do it as theybuild their own personal
operating manual, as we talkabout in this program today, by
all means send me an email tojasonmyhockeycom and I'd love to
start the conversation with you.
But as far as Vinny goes, yeah,so I got into what he does, who

(10:04):
he is.
This conversation we talk aboutmental toughness.
At the end that comes to mind.
We talk about the process ofbeing a hockey player how
important and vital it is tounderstand where you are
valuable and how you providevalue.
It really simplifies thedevelopment process for you when
you're worried about things, ornot actually worried, but
you're concentrating on thingsto focus on as far as your

(10:26):
development is concerned.
We talk about consistency whenit comes to your development.
What else do we talk about, mygoodness?
We talked about everythingwithin that mental realm and we
talked for an hour and 10minutes.
I didn't talk once about hisown personal story as far as his
career in hockey and how he gotinto the performance field.
We just dove straight in to theconversation on the backbone of

(10:49):
a Philadelphia Eagles SuperBowl victory, so we use that as
the launching point for ourdiscussion and then from there,
we went down the rabbit hole onthe multiple of subjects that I
think you're going to find veryenjoyable.
So, without further ado, let'sbring on the conversation with
mental performance coach andplayer development guru, vinnie
Maltz.
All right, well, here we arefor episode.

(11:11):
I believe it's 152.
We have Vinnie Maltz, all theway from where are you right now
, vinnie?

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Just outside of Philadelphia, voorhees, new
Jersey, all the way from justoutside Philadelphia mental
performance coach Vinnie Maltz.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Pleasure to have you on, vinnie.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on, JasonSweet.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
So with the proximity to Philadelphia, maybe we'll
just start there.
Is there some allegiance to theFlyers at all?

Speaker 1 (11:33):
As a kid I loved that man.
As a kid I was completelydiehard, all that stuff.
Grew up playing like LittleFlyers, Junior Flyers, all the
Flyers teams that exist in thearea and was a huge fan.
And then, obviously, once youstart getting into the pro game
and you start, you know, playingthe game at that level, then it

(11:54):
starts to become more like,well, I love the team that I'm
actually on or player or a partof or signed by, but I'll always
have that.
That place in my heart willalways be there as a philly and
always watching them.
I still know you know Dannythere, the GM and all that stuff
, and you know a couple of guysthere.
So there'll always be that partwhere you know guys and you're
still connected to them andstuff like that.
So still a big fan of you knowthe people that they have there

(12:15):
and what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
That's awesome.
So you actually grew up thereable to still call that home and
uh, and yeah, whatever youdidn't didn't have to leave for
what you do, yeah yeah, exactly,exactly.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
No, you know it's.
It's funny.
I grew up yeah, philly, youknow born and raised, grew up in
the city and we moved overabout.
I was about 16 and a half whenwe moved over to jersey and I
was here for about a about ayear and month and change before
bam juniors and hockey justtook me right out.
So you know, now now we're hereraising the family and all that

(12:47):
stuff, so it's nice so we'rejust on the heels of the super
bowl.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I mean, I know it's a hockey podcast, but does that
city just go crazy?
I don't follow football verymuch, but oh, it's crazy, like
that's.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
That's the main thing for me, like I'm a diehard in
my own way of like, you know, Ilove when they're gone.
I was actually super die hardwith my brother for like about
six, seven years or we actuallywere.
It was a thing we were gettingtogether all the time, all that.
But to your point, what it doesto the city, right, like
collectively, that energy thatit brings, you know, I love.
Right now everybody's a littlebit happier for another couple

(13:17):
more weeks until the residue,you know, goes off.
We go back to the normalday-to-day.
I hate you and the world sucks.
What was me?
Wah, wah, wah, but you know.
But right now it's nice, theenergy is great and you can just
feel it right, it's a littlelighter and so on and it's
something fun to be a part of.
And you know, from a Phillystandpoint, the city is so
passionate, it's just there.

(13:37):
There's just so much cultureand passion here that when you
have something like this, thathave something like this, that
just kind of releases themundane all the time, gives you
something to be excited about.
It's nice.
It's nice and and as a you know, from a human performance nerdy
side of me, I love theinterviews that are coming out,
you know, from the coaches tothe players and how they're
talking about their process andeverything it's that.

(13:59):
That's the part to me that'sbeen really cool is to see how
much they're releasing and justwhen you listen to their
interviews and just to see howthey just they've got it dialed
in, they just get it they justget it.
So that that's been the fun part, to see that philly eagles and
it's like wow, listen to them.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like they are dialed, they get it that's what I was
actually wanted to ask you aboutand kind of point at that
direction, because I know thatyou are more uh, immersed in
that.
I am and I do.
I mean, you know, I follow youon social and for anyone out
there you should follow CoachVin, because he's got some good
stuff on there.
A lot of times you do release,you know, whatever, like an
interview or some other piece ofcontext, and then you provide

(14:35):
your own spin on it.
So what has like?
So let's dive into that alittle bit.
Like what are they talking about?
What is or what individuals are, are, do you feel are actually
working on the mental side ofthe game?
And and I often find, as youknow as well as I do, that those
that are uh, when there's aculture around that side of
performance, you know, like thatgood things happen doesn't

(14:56):
always result in thechampionship, but you know, at
least you know that you're doingdoing the right things and and
it seems like the pieces of thepuzzle went together for the
Eagles this year.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Well.
So there's one thing yeah, ifyou check out the page, I put up
a couple of little stints, butthere was a great interview.
I think it was about 15, 16minutes.
The missus shot it to me andshe's like, hey, you got to take
a look at this.
So I started screen recordingand recreating and I'm like, oh
my God, it was like literallygold, gold, gold, gold.
But you know the big thing thatyou know.
The two biggest takeaways that Ireally appreciated about the

(15:26):
language whether it was you knowfrom you know sirianni, the
coach, or from you know hertz,of just like hearing him talk
about the thing that you heardwas unified was how much they
talked about the mundane, boringstuff that we were all in.
We were committed to it.
It's nothing fancy's, simplestuff, but we continue to keep
re-engaging with it and I thinkthat's the first thing right Is

(15:49):
that they accepted it for whatit is.
It's a profession.
It's not going to be fun allthe time.
It's figuring out, havingmeetings, consistently talking
to each other, making sure we'realways on the same page,
over-communicating, being veryclear on what that looks like,
making sure that we're always onthe same page over
communicating, being very clearon what that looks like, making
sure that you know we'reaccepting of each other, that
you know we're making sure theegos don't get too big.

(16:10):
So it was just a lot of thattype of stuff that I really
appreciated that they dialed inon because it was so sincere and
thoughtful.
Right, like for me, I'm a biglanguage guy.
Language is my offense, likeI'm always nerding out on trying
to listen to interviews.
Right, and that's what drew meto you, jason.
It's like hearing you talk andthe things you were like

(16:32):
explaining, you know and puttingout to the world.
I'm like this guy gets it.
This guy gets it.
And that's where I always amlooking for is who is speaking
from a place of authenticitywhere they actually experienced
it, not theoretical.
Hey, I read about this and, oh,I've been listening to gary v
or other people talk about thisand now I'm gonna spit it out of
.
This is what you should bedoing and, right, this is what

(16:53):
you I'm looking for of, like,who has real human energy.
That's like, oh, you lived it.
You're talking from a place ofpracticality, application.
You actually went through it,and that's the part that I love
about with Sirianni and Hertzand a lot of the other players.
You could tell there's thisgenuine like.
It was hard but it was so worthit.
And here's what we did.
And it was the day-to-day andwe were just always bought in.

(17:15):
And that was the other side ofit was that they truly cared
about each other.
Like that.
They truly there was a you knowit know it's funny, right the
city of brotherly love and therewas that brotherhood on the
team of where you could feelthat they understood.
Yep, this is what we're herefor.
You know, this is what we'regoing to do, like I'm sure you
saw that unbelievable clip fromsaquon earlier in the season of

(17:38):
where he could have broken somerecord and you know he was like
no, let the boys eat, let theboys eat.
He's just like let the youngguys eat.
Right, he's like I don't care, Idon't need my record because
there's a guy as a leader thatknew man, I know what I am, I
know what I bring and the onlything I care about is that we're
winning and we're havingsuccess.
To me, I don't need the otherstuff.
I'm legit, I'm world class, I'mgreat, but it doesn't matter

(18:00):
that I am like if we're notwinning the ultimate ship if
we're not there.
I don't care about the otherstuff, I just care about what's
best for us.
So it's like all these dynamicsthat I just saw with them, that
was like wow.
Like talk about a masterclassin a champion minded culture
where they're living it.
They're living it Likepersonally, selfishly.
That's one of the things I'mhoping to do put it out to the
universe is I'm here in Philly,all right, how do I get in there

(18:23):
and just go talk to some of theguys.
I'm like hey, I would just loveto like pick your brains on
what's going on in here becauseyou truly, it's so real what
they're doing, and to me it'slike the acceptance of the
mundane, the commitment to it,and then the culture of, yeah,
we're in this together, we'reall going to do it.

(18:45):
The no egos and you know, jace,you've been around of teams,
when you're on the team, ofwhere your top guys and top
veterans legitimately put offthis energy as if they don't
care, it's not about them, it'sabout us.
How powerful that is thecoaches when they do that, how
powerful that is like.
I think that's the part thatreally I gravitated towards in
in like going like wow, likethese guys are for real on how
they did it.
And then, obviously, how theywon the last game.

(19:06):
It was like it was so clear howprepared they were.
They were prepared for anything, they were prepared for all,
whereas I felt, like Kansas Citywas, they didn't know what was
coming on the passing game.
They prepared to shut Saquondown.
They were like all right, we'regoing to take the running game
away.
But you could tell once theywent passing, it was like they
didn't know what to do.
It was almost like whoa, likewe didn't realize they had this
in there too.

(19:26):
So it's just so many of thesedynamics that I just appreciated
about, you know, in observingthem in human performance, and
it was like wow, like theyreally have it together.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
You talked about the value in the mundane.
So what would be an example ofthat if we could shift that to
to hockey and maybe I'll have aprecursor with it.
Just because I had, I had alanstein jr on.
I don't know if you know, know,recognize that name or not, but
he's, he's in the mentalperformance space as well,
mostly with basketball primarily.

(19:58):
And, uh, and he requested one ofthe great stories he told was
he requested um at this one campthat Kobe Bryant was involved
in.
His name was on it, it was anESPN thing or whatever that he
was mentoring these NCAA playersin the summer.
He requested to watch KobeBryant work out because he knew
that he heard all these thingsabout Kobe and how he trained

(20:20):
and what he did and what hedidn't do and true to form
Kobe's like, yeah, come watch me, it's at four in the morning or
whatever, right, like beforeeverything gets going.
So Alan said he showed up thereand of course he thought he
tried to be early and Kobe wasalready there before he was even
there, you know, and the lightswere off everywhere else.
But he said, like the first,whatever, it was half hour hour

(20:46):
of the training that you watchedwas Kobe Bryant doing the most
basic ball handling drills thatyou would ever imagine, you know
.
And and he said he just watchedhim and he was like meticulous
and relentless in like hisapproach to, to the, to the easy
, you know, and and I and Ican't remember the, the, the
quote, but it was prettypowerful like saying, like he
asked him afterwards like you'rethe greatest basketball player
in the world, like, why are youdoing such easy?

(21:06):
You know such easily easy stuff?
And he said, well, that mightbe why I'm the best basketball
player in the world, you know,like the master of the
fundamentals.
So, you know, is that what youmean by by, like you know, being
falling in love with themundane or doing the mundane?
And, if so, like how would thatapply to, maybe, a hockey
player and how that would wouldwould work for them?

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, no a thousand percent.
Everything agreed.
Yep, hit the love button.
Love button over and over,right?
You know one of the things thatwe always talk about.
You know one formula we use,you know, in our you know
pedagogy and all that stuff islike making sure that, okay,
simplicity plus consistencyequals sustainability.
Right, the simplicity is what'sthe most important, valuable

(21:50):
thing, that I know that, if I doit, and again when you're let
me preface it by saying whenyou're looking to
professionalize your mindset,that's what there's a difference
between simplicity andcomplexity.
Where simplicity is, I knowthis brings us value.
I know that, when it comes tomy role, this is the most
effective thing I can do rightnow and be most consistent at.

(22:14):
That's going to produceworld-class results or keep me
in the game, keep mecontributing in a way that's
meaningful to the whole.
And so at the youth level, thatcould be more challenging
because you're still trying toexperiment, discover, figure
things out, and so simplicityplus consistency means
simplicity is what's the thingthat you naturally do that

(22:37):
brings value to the team.
What is the thing that like?
So, from hockey wise, it mightbe.
Literally, it might be.
You know what I'm really good atwinning wall battles and
getting the puck out anddistributing the puck and making
sure it ends up on centerman'stape.
Or I'm a defenseman, I win thebattle, I get up to our wingers,
get it out first pass.
So what you're able to do isI'm able to just win that battle

(22:59):
, or I'm able to block shots andkeep the puck from going to the
net, and I'm really good atthat.
I'm able to block shots andkeep the puck from going to the
net, and I'm really good at that.
I'm able to win face-offs,right.
So there's all these differentdynamics inside of the game.
Where it's simple in nature, interms of what you just described
with Kobe is where and I seethis all the time right, same
thing with, whether it's NHLplayers or highly driven

(23:20):
Division I, major junior andagain I preface that because not
all the youth or amateur aredriven in that way and
understand what it really takesto professionalize this process
and we just just just describedwith kobe is that that's what he
was, that's what any greatplayer understands.
Whether it's crosby, they alldo the same things, right.

(23:41):
You go down the line, matthews,mcdavid, you go through any of
them, I'm sure they're all doingthe same thing of fundamentally
the simplest thing I can doright now is become really good
at this play right now, where,over and over again, I'm
observing in the game.
I'm struggling to take the puckoff my skate right now, I'm
struggling to take it on mybackhand, I'm struggling to chip
it in this situation, I'mstruggling to come off the wall

(24:02):
right now, and they observe thatand they go.
Now I'm going to invest my timeinto that, I'm going to develop
that.
So it's simple.
But the consistency comes from.
Well, am I going toconsistently do it or am I going
to you know what shiny objectsyndrome?
I could go work on this rightnow, or I could go develop this.
Well, this coach just looked atme, this scout just saw me in

(24:25):
the stands and said I got to gowork on my skating.
So now I'm going to completelyget away from what somebody that
I just met, because they're aNHL scout or they're a division
one coach, whatever and I'mgoing to literally change what
I've been doing in my processbecause this person of authority
said something and that meansthat's it gotta add more new
layers.

(24:45):
So that's the challenge of wherethe simplicity of understanding
as a player, what do you knowin your own mind that you
believe is valuable, worthwhile,worth working for, for the
collective.
And then the consistency isyou're fighting the things that
are in the nature of the gameinstagram, all these other
places, right?
Influences, family, othercoaches, people telling you what

(25:08):
they think you need to do asopposed to.
Well, wait a second.
I know that if I do this, I'mgoing to be really valuable to
my teammates, to my team.
If I just keep doing this overthe course of a long season, I'm
bringing a lot of value.
And so that's the consistencypart.
But at the end of the day, itcomes down to sustainability,

(25:29):
right?
You know, jason, it's like thepart that everyone misses when,
whether it's Kobe's you knowwhat he's talking about there
when it comes to thefundamentals, or you know the
Eagles, it's the sustainabilityis what this is all about, and
you can appreciate this, right?
I think we talked about thisbefore.
It's like you've got to take ona farmer's mindset.
You've got to take on you knowwhat, if I'm developing this

(25:50):
process from a sustainabilitystandpoint, how is this going to
keep me rolling through theyears, through the months, right
?
How is this going to keepsustaining success over and over
again?
And that's what thefundamentals are.
When you hear great players talkabout that, what they've
recognized is the game is thegame.
I can't change the conditionsof what's going to happen, but
if I'm physically, technically,super sharp on this basic

(26:13):
fundamental movements that Ineed to do on the ice, it could
be something as simple as okay,I'm a shooter and being able to
move from my back into myforehand, or to be able to get
into space and just consistentlyget to space and get open to
receive a puck over and overagain.
And just that might only happenin a game, you know, three,
four, five times total.
But because I'm ready for itand I'm perfectly aligned and

(26:35):
I'm the timing is good and mybody position is good, and now
every single time I get thatchance even though it might be
only a couple of chances, butevery time I get that chance I'm
ready it's incredible how muchthat could produce for you and
the value that produces forothers when you're bought into
that fundamental aspect of Ilove perfecting that and that's

(26:57):
the challenge we have in today'sgame, right, is that players
overthink, overdo, they don'tknow their natural identity, so
they think they need to do more.
When all the greats say thisover and over again and you can
do the study online and you canlook.
They all say the same things.
It comes back to yourfundamentals.
80% of NHL, nba, nfl they wouldall say the same thing.
It's just the fundamentals.
I just do them over and overand over again so I feel so

(27:19):
comfortable in my skin that itleaves room to think when I play
but fundamentally I'm set Takea short break from my discussion
with Vinny to talk to you aboutelite prospects in the UMH 68.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
One of the unique things about the UMH 68
Invitational is that thetournament is covered by my
partner's Elite Prospects.
Elite Prospects, as you know,is the database for young men
and women to have their statsrecorded their heights and
weights recorded, where they'vebeen, the awards they've won,
you name it.
If a coach wants to look you up, that is where they do it at

(27:59):
Elite Prospects and there's onlya certain amount of tournaments
that they cover.
They don't cover just anything.
They choose.
They're very picky and choosyabout which tournaments they
cover and when they do.
Those stats last a lifetime.
They will grow with you on yourprofile, and the UMH 68 is one
of the tournaments that theycovered, which is super fun and

(28:21):
super fantastic, and it'ssomething that I take a ton of
pride in.
At the events themselves, wehave the live stream set up.
I review the play as it happens.
We make sure that we get thegoals and the assists right.
It is not up to the referee toguess on who gets them.
It is actually done with someattention to detail.
Same thing goes for the goaliesand for the shots for and the

(28:43):
shots against and all that goodstuff.
If we're going to keep track,you might as well do it
accurately, and that's somethingthat that we do very well at
the UMH 68.
So fun to have elite prospectsinvolved.
Another thing that they areinvolved with any player that
comes to one of my events, oneof my UMH 68 invitationals, they
leave with an EP profile thatis a premium account.

(29:06):
This is $125 value throughElite Prospects.
By coming to a UMH 68, youleave with a year membership to
that.
That is part of yourparticipation and part of my
partnership with Elite Prospectsthat that gets taken care of.
So it's awesome to be workingwith Elite Prospects obviously a
fast growing name in the sports, in the sports world, in the

(29:29):
hockey world and to have the UMH68 partnered with them and to
have all my players that arecoming to this leave with a
premium account is prettyspecial.
So, yes, thank you, eliteProspects, thank you for
everything you're doing outthere and for all of you who may
have received an invitation orare looking to receive an
invitation to one of the events,just know that it will be on
your profile, the stats that youhave, and you will also have a

(29:52):
premium membership along withyour registration.
Now let's get back to theconversation with Vinnie Maltz.
Yeah, there's a lot there, forsure, and so for me, like a
natural one, is skating, whichis one of the things when I do

(30:14):
on ice.
I still do on ice work withyounger players and I see it at
the junior level, but I guessI'm talking about even the pro
level.
But like, let's just talk aboutthe younger players.
Like you know, you will, inyour head, have this idea that,
let's say, an edge work drill isa U11, 12u type drill, right,
and because that's when theystarted doing it.

(30:35):
But yet now that they're 15 or16 and they're playing somewhere
else, they feel that they'vethey've passed that, they've
surpassed that drill.
And if you were to bring thatback to them, it's like
disrespectful, almost, that I'mnot at that spot and that's the
thing that I tell these guys.
And like you're so not past it.
And if you think you've got it,like there's so many layers to
what that is that you can beadding to it to give yourself

(30:57):
the opportunity to be the bestthat you can be, and so like,
for me, that's how I unpack thatidea like because I think
skating and like some of thesefundamental edge work drills can
be something that getsoverlooked or something that we
check out on doing when we'redoing them, or don't do them at
all anymore, like Kobe, likesimilar to Kobe Bryant's ball
handling drills and I'm not abasketball guy.

(31:18):
I have no idea what thosedrills would look like, but I
could imagine what they wouldlook like right.
So just anyone listening outthere like that piece of it,
right, because the growth andthe craziness that we get to see
in the NHL level when there'sso many things happening in a
dynamic, in such a dynamic, fastenvironment, that all happens

(31:41):
because the fundamentals havebeen dialed and now they're able
, because their body position isin the right spot, to be able
to get off that edge and ontothis edge and to do these things
.
So, anyways, I just I love whatyou're talking about there and
I think, for me, when I talkabout mindset, uh, because it's
such, it's such a vast world,right, and I kind of like to
like about it, but like, for methere's, there's an aspect of
mindset that's totally trainingbased and like developmental

(32:04):
based, not even like performancebased, but like how do I get
better Right?
So maybe maybe speak a littlebit more on that, like how you
feel mindset ties into personaldevelopment.
Yeah, a hundred percent?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Great question.
So, first and foremost, youknow, the biggest thing that
mindset ties into is there's anature physically to every
player right.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
There's some players that just love to.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
I'm a goal scorer, but there's no proof to show
your goal score.
You know like I always love theinfamous question I'm a goal
scorer?
Okay, how many goals have youhad over the last three years?
Oh, probably about 20.
You're not a goal scorer Fullstop, let's just put that away.
But, cognitively speaking, froma personal development
standpoint, to your point, whathappens is and I love how you
know you phrase that earlier ofyou know, when I talk to the

(32:48):
players about helping themunderstand and they think you
know, like, oh, that's so, youknow, that's 12 year old stuff
and all that the educationalaspect of we're so good as a
culture in hockey at giving youinformation and telling you how
to do something, but what we'rereally lacking and we're really
poor at is helping understand.
Do Do you understand yourself,though?

(33:09):
Do you understand how yourbody's designed?
Do you understand how you thinkabout things?
Because, to your point, whenyou bring up those guys and
they're struggling with the 12year old thing and they're
looking at that, what they'renot realizing is oh, you do
realize you have cognitivebiases and distortions that are
gonna get in your way, right,and you see it all the time with
players of oh, this power playis stupid, this face off.
What are we doing here?
This is so dumb, bam, classicfixed mindset.

(33:32):
The moment you say this is dumband you didn't leave yourself
open and curious in the idea toexplore it, bam, you've ruined
it for yourself.
And that's the part where,educationally speaking, to your
point, jason, like rule numberone in personal development is
okay.
Am I aware of how my own mindinterprets it?
So, like another framework weuse I call it quadruple A

(33:53):
defensive zone system, and theidea is that acceptance,
awareness, accountability,adaptability go through the four
A's and I make a image similarto taking a baseball diamond
Acceptance, acceptance.
Except it's all a story, it'sall a narrative.
You're 16, 14, 12, whatever itis, you're 25.
You have a schema, you haveideas in your head, you have

(34:15):
experiences that you wentthrough.
So in your mind you're going tothink, oh, this is, this is
great, oh, this is what we usedto do, or this is stupid, it
makes sense.
But, depending on the team,you're a part of the level
you're at right, like anyone whoknows anything about.
You know the game right.
There's a big differencebetween juniors and pro, big
difference, right as far assustainability, the difference

(34:35):
of guys who's committed, allthat stuff.
So literally the perspectiveshifts and changes that when
you're juniors, when you'reyounger, there's a lot of stuff
you don't know about.
The pro level you just don'tknow.
You don't know what it's liketo be at division one level you
don't know.
But when you're younger youthink you do know.
So that's first and foremost isaccept.
Oh, I'm going to have a story,I'm going to have a narrative in

(34:56):
my own head.
That's my own, but it's my job.
If I'm really looking todevelop my mindset and
personally develop and improvethis process, then it's my job.
Okay, I know my story, I knowwhat I think, but what does
everybody else that I'mparticipating with think?
What does the coach think?
What do the other players think?
What do my opponents think?
That's what my job is.
I have to accept that we allhave our own perspective.

(35:18):
We have our own story, and thenI've got to become aware.
That's where the awarenesscomes in now.
Well, let me go do the work,let me go find out.
Well, what is my story?
Man, yeah, I do think thatedges are dumb.
Why do I think that?
Why do I go to that place?
What is that all about.
You have to get curious aboutyour own me against me, right,
like we always, we all have ourthing me versus we, versus me

(35:40):
against me.
Like it's being able to, like,have that self-reflection in
your mind and go wait, why, why,where did that come from?
Why do I even think that's dumb?
Like, why, what do I know?
Like.
And you have to have thathonest conversation with you.
And that's where accountabilitycomes in.
Is that you realize, like, youknow what, cognitively speaking,
that's my own bias.

(36:06):
That's the way I see it.
It doesn't mean it's it's goofy, right of like.
We don't recognize that.
So we have to be accountable toyou know what?
For me, this face off doesn'tmake sense, or this play doesn't
make sense.
But let me go get curious andfind out, let me get better,
because it's on me, because thatperson that I'm participating,
whether coach or line mate, theydon't know that.
I think it's stupid.

(36:26):
They don't know my parents whenthey sit in the car and we're
driving and they're sayingthings about well, coach, he did
this and he did that, yeah,yeah, he just doesn't like me.
How do you know that?
You don't know that information?
And now you're in the carhaving this conversation about
something that literally youdon't know.
I catch players on this all thetime, especially when I was
working more with you know moreyouth players.

(36:48):
I'm like, how do you know coachwas thinking that?
Did you talk to coach?
No, okay, well, how do you know?
Your parents seem to know this,like as a fact.
How do they know?
Well, I don't know.
Like, well, you should ask yourparents how do they know that?
Did the coach talk to them?
Is information that came fromthat?
And so you know?
That's the part right.
Accountability, because then,once you've gathered, you accept

(37:09):
that it's all narrative.
You become aware of yournarrative, right, you become
accountable to your narrative.
Now you can adapt.
Now you can hit home runs wherenow adaptability comes in.
And now it goes.
You know what?
Yeah, I don't know theinformation.
I've got to go figure that out.
So now it changes.
Now you go back to acceptance.
Either A, I go talk to coach,or B, I didn't go talk to coach.

(37:29):
Okay, awareness oh, now I'maware.
Oh, wow, that's what coach wasthinking.
Huh, okay, now that's better,right.
Then accountability oh, allright.
Well, here's what I can do toparticipate with that.
You know what?
I should go talk to my linemate, because he probably didn't
talk to, he probably hasn'ttalked to coach about that.
I did.
And now, bam, we go back toadapting.
And so it's just this constantfeedback loop, right, that we

(37:50):
get to create from thisquadruple a defensive zone
system, because you have todefend against this to your
point mindset.
If we're talking about personaldevelopment, then it's personal,
it's your own development.
Like I had a um during covid.
I had a great uh podcast wewere on with I'm brain farting
right now from ColoradoAvalanche, captain brain farting

(38:15):
right now.
Landis Scott.
Landis Scott, right, had him onand it was great conversation,
right when we talked about whatbasically he talked about.
In there was there's the teamsystem and then there's your
personal system.
And so what your responsibilityis, the team system is going to
be given to you.
The coaches are going to tellyou, the organization's going to
tell your role, they're goingto tell you everything.
But the way I always explain itto our guys now is well, your

(38:37):
personal system is this, it'syour own portfolio.
So wherever you go youth,juniors, college, pro, it
doesn't matter you have to walkin with your personal system,
your your own system, and go.
Oh hey, here's how I think,here's how I see things.
I've got it all locked in righthere, because when you go on
the journey, we all know you'regoing to be a part of different
cultures, different mindsets,different ideas, systems, all

(38:59):
this stuff.
So if you don't, if you're nottrue to who you are, if you
don't know what yours is and youdon't have your own portfolio,
then adapting to others, allyou're going to keep doing is
changing and going like, oh well, I've got to believe this, I'm
going to believe this, asopposed to well, wait a second,
here's what I believe, here'swhy I believe it.
So let me come to them and hey,coach, can we talk about this?
Here's kind of what I learned,here's what I was a part of.

(39:20):
So now, how do we develop that?
And I always loved when youbrought that up, because it's
like that's exactly it.
Right there is that you have tohave that framework in your
head of, if we're talking aboutpersonal development, it's
personal to you, where nobodyelse knows your journey.
We all know it.
Like no one really knows.
What background did you comefrom?

(39:41):
How did you grow up?
You know what?
Have you worked on in your ownprocess.
How much time have you put intodeveloping certain parts of
your process?
How often do you talk to yourline mates about what you're
doing in that play, and on andon.
And if you talk to most players, they stink at personally
explaining their process.
They can explain the team'sprocess, but if you talk to them
and have a dialogue of like,can you explain your process?

(40:02):
How many of them can actuallyarticulate that?
They're better at articulatingwhat everybody else is telling
them and terrible atarticulating what they think.
What are we doing?
What are we doing If we'retalking about personal
development?
What are we doing?
It's way too far to people.
You're about to participate,think now you got power.
But if you don't know how youthink, if you don't have

(40:23):
personal development, what doyou have?

Speaker 2 (40:37):
right, yeah, I know that.
Uh, yeah, the terms you use are.
It's funny.
And now I'm like reflecting onour, on our first conversation,
and for those listening, likevinny was super.
I can't remember if I reachedout to you or you showed to me.
I don't remember that firstreach, like reflecting on our,
on our first conversation andfor those listening, like Vinny
was super.
I can't remember if I reachedout to you or you showed to me.
I don't even remember thatfirst reach out, but like we
ended up getting on a phone calland it was this, you know

(40:58):
whatever it was like fireworks.
We talked for like 90 minutesand, yeah, we were bouncing
stuff off each other.
But but you, even bringing upand holding that book in front
of you, like that like one ofthe one of the pre, like one of
the fundamental things that Italk about with the players that
I work with, and like rightfrom day one, I say, like we're
building your personal operatingmanual.
I call it your POM, Cause youneed to know you and you need to
know how you operate to be thebest player that you can be and

(41:20):
and so like that's.
I mean, I mean almost exactlywhat you're saying there, and
it's so funny how nobody knowsthat right, they haven't written
a page in that book yet.
Now, it's all based off ofsuperstition, it's all based off
of blind routine, it's allbased off of what maybe other
people have said.
And, uh, one of the things thatI kind of and I think this
encapsulates sort of the idea ofwhat I mean for everyone

(41:40):
listening out there and I'vesaid this to players before is
like when you're at the nhllevel or the pro level I I mean
any pro level really you startedgetting paid to play hockey.
You guys have figured out alittle bit about what they need
to do to be able to performconsistently.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Some better than others, of course, even if
that's myself included in thatprocess.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Some guys have figured it out.
But if we use that as like theenvironment that we're imagining
ourselves in, and we go into anNHL locker room and it's 30
minutes before a game, you willvastly see differences in where
people are at Like.
There'll be a guy with hisequipment fully on and his
helmet on staring at the floor.
There'll be a guy that's noteven in his gear yet stretching
in the middle of the floor.

(42:19):
There'll be a guy that's in theweight room riding the bike.
There'll be somebody having ashower.
There'll be somebody telling ajoke in the room.
Somebody will be playing music,dancing.
Now, is anybody wrong in thatscenario?
No, right, but they figured outwhat they need to do to get
themselves physically, mentally,emotionally ready to play that
game Now.
So my thing with, like, ayounger player, a junior player,
is they've never thought aboutwhat it is they're doing or why

(42:41):
they're doing it.
You, know so like, if you can,and maybe that's even to your
point earlier of, like you don'tknow what you don't know.
Now you have to ask the rightquestions, right, like, how do I
get prepared for this?
And when we start actuallyasking those good questions,
we're forced to find goodanswers.
And then now you're comfortablein your space, which is isn't
that one of the greatest reasonsfor having good performance

(43:02):
right Is knowing you and notbeing somebody else in an
environment that you thinkyou're supposed to be?
So anyways, I don't know, Ijust kind of had some verbal
diarrhea there, but it's kind ofcrazy listening to you, and
that's what I try and get theseguys to think about.
Like, what is you 30 minutesbefore a game?
You're going to play your bestgame.
What are you doing?
Are you the guy looking at thefloor with your gear?

Speaker 1 (43:24):
on.
Or are you the guy you nailed?
Beautiful, because, like, oneof the frameworks we'll always
use to your point is, we alwaystalk about questions, stories,
conversations, boom, right, areyou asking meaningful questions,
are you?
What is it really for yourprocess?
What does it mean, you know, toyou personally?
Right, then that develops anarrative.
Now you have an idea.
Oh, wow, that answered for nowwhat I needed.

(43:47):
Boom, now I have a narrativethat I can go play off of.
Well, now go have aconversation.
Right, don't keep it toyourself.
Share, share with your coaches,share with your line mates,
share it.
So now, teaching, one of thebest ways to absorb information.
Number one, right, so thatsolves that problem.
But number two, now, the othersparticipating with you.
Now, we're all aware of whatyou are actually thinking.

(44:08):
And so, jason, you know, likethat's one of our biggest
struggles in the industry isthat we just haven't solved that
constraint that goes on betweenthe authority bias.
Right, there's a lot of coachesthat feel.
Well, I told you, do as I say,not as I do, right, like we've
talked about, right, of why wefeel that we've been able to get
into the space and have, youknow, the success that we've had

(44:29):
is because players can feel, oh, they're still doing what I'm
doing, they're still in it, theway I am Like you're working out
all the time, you're workingjust as hard, you're improving
your process, you're gettingbetter as a mental performance
coach, you're figuring it outright.
And that's the part where a lotof this, from a leadership
standpoint, is how much are wediving into that and

(44:49):
understanding?
Okay, let me ask questions thatreally meaningful to see.
Make sure the narrative in thelocker room or the team where is
that going?
And then let's have dialogueover and over and over again and
keep that flywheel going inthat framework.
Right, but to your point,that's that's the challenge with
so much of this space is thatwe're we're aware of these types

(45:09):
of things, that we know theycan work, but we haven't
appreciated how much work itactually takes to do this type
of work.
Like the old framework is stillthere.
Go to practice right, boom, puton the board.
This is what we're going to do.
Everybody execute.
Great, we're going to do videonow video.
I've had NHL guys over the years.
Right, I won star in league.

(45:31):
I remember having aconversation with him years ago
and talking to him.
We're just catching up all thisstuff and he goes and says to
me point blank he's like youknow, what's amazing to me about
this league is how much, whenwe're doing video, I'm just
getting eaten Like you didn't dothis, you didn't do this, like
mistake after mistake, and notonce are they pointing out the
three or four things that I diddo that were actually really
good, that nobody else on theteam can do, but I'm doing them,

(45:53):
but it's not being pointed out.
And so we got into thisphilosophical conversation about
exactly that of where that'sthe challenge we're having is
that players today, they investin themselves so much, they do
so much work.
The irony right, they do somuch work to be unbelievable.
Yet if you really think aboutleadership, how much does

(46:15):
leadership do that amount ofwork on themselves to catch up
with what players do?
They do a ton of work to servethe organization, the players,
and they're figuring out for theteam what's best, but how much
are they really figuring out forthemselves?
Wait a second, can I make thismore efficient for myself?
Am I making this harder than Ineed to be?
Do I need to just have moreconversations with the guys as

(46:36):
opposed to just thinking I'msolving the.
I think he's thinking this and Ithink he's thinking this as
opposed to hey, man, what areyou thinking?
Like?
Can you tell me what you'rethinking and maybe I can adapt
around that?
Or you know, let me look atthis team and go.
You know, we're a pretty fastteam and I want you guys all to
be physical, like we're not aphysical team, even though I'm
driving myself nuts to make youphysical.
Why don't we just change thesystem and structure and make it

(46:58):
about speed?
You know, these are the thingsright, that natural alignment
that I think is superchallenging in this process and,
to your point with it.
Like it's just we're not askingthese meaningful questions over
and over again to just keepgetting to that same place.
So we all want the same thing,but we're coming at it from a
different lens.
Players want to do what's bestfor the organization, but

(47:19):
they're not clear on what theywant.
And leaders want to do what'sbest, but they're not following
a process that the players canrelate to.
Like it's like a lot of players, I can feel the BS really quick
, like they can feel it right.
It's like you walk into thatroom and they know whether or
not, you're for real or not, andif they can feel you're not
real, gone.
So, and to your point, youngerplayers.

(47:41):
It's even harder for thembecause they have all these
people that they feel are real.
Oh, my agent said this, my dadis saying this, or mom's saying
this, my coach, my skills coach,is saying this, my strength
coach is saying this,everybody's saying these things.
But when you get older and youget, you start going up the
pyramid, you start to realizemore and more it's like I can't

(48:01):
keep listening to them.
I got to do this on my own,like this is on me and that is
not being taught If you lookaround.
That's the advantage we have.
The competitive advantage,quote unquote is we're working
on developing that for them sothey can prepare for that.
And I've been at this for years, right, like you know, like my
history, like over a decade, andI still sit there at times and
I go like I can't believe thisisn't changing man.

(48:23):
I mean it's great for us, it'sgreat for what we do.
We're going to have plenty ofwork for a while, I think still.
But I'm like amazed that it'snot being like hello, like don't
you get it, like and they don't.
They don't Like it's good andit's bad.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
What a balancing act, though, right, like, and
especially for younger players,and that is one thing I'm trying
to arm them with them with, andI think that's where confidence
comes from.
Like what you're talking aboutis like understanding your
manual right as you build it,where you are empowered and
where you're not right, andowning the things that, that
that you can, so you can walkinto an environment and feel
somewhat in control, becausewhen do you not feel confident

(49:00):
is when you don't feel it incontrol, right, or you don't
feel ready or whatever the casemay be.
So, like helping themunderstand that.
But yet, you know, I think somepeople out there listening are
like, well, so you didn't saythis, but like, the extreme of
that is like you don't listen toyour coach and you don't listen
to your agent and you don'tlisten to mom or dad, and and
that's not what we're sayingLike, we're saying like you need

(49:20):
to listen, but you need tolisten with a filter.
Right, there has to be a filteron that, and only if you're
self-aware enough can you beattacking that with a growth
mindset.
Hear it, how do I apply this tome?
What is useful in thisinformation?
And use it and discard the rest.
And again, that's where I thinkthat fine line is right.
Like it is tricky.
It's a tricky slope, but if youdon't even know that you're

(49:41):
trying to navigate that slope,you're lost, right.
So now, if at least we have theconversation, now you're like
okay, what is there for me inthis?
And if you attack these thingsfrom that growth mindset spot
and you understand what that is,my God, you're already ahead of
the game.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Bingo.
You nailed it, and that'sprecisely why it's a skill.
Is that step one?
Well, man, I didn't even thinkabout being self-aware in my
process.
I didn't even think about whatdo I think about?
That's never even been a thing.
So I, where am I processing,thinking about, what do I think
about?
That's never even been a thing.
So I start to align and I putdown and I reflect, or I have
somebody supporting me, helpingme through it, and then you kind
of wrestle with it.

(50:15):
Well, what about this?
And you know how many playersyou've had right?
It's like they want to argueand they're like you can see.
It's like you're getting inyour own way, like you're you're
asking the wrong thing oryou're focused on the wrong
thing.
You're're not.
Well, what does that matter?
What, in this instance, whencoach makes that comment, how
does that impact you?
What?
How does that stop you fromcontinuing to execute and go do
what you know you're supposed todo today?

(50:35):
Like you, you're the one whochose today not to eat right,
not to get to sleep, not to gowork on the skills.
That had nothing to do withcoach yelling at you and saying
what coach said to you.
Your feelings are getting inthe way.
But the process did you actuallydo the thing or not?
I had one young player who wasterrible at the nutrition aspect
and all we did was baseline wecall it my high five where it's

(50:57):
like let's just go with thebaseline.
Where's extra energy thatyou're not getting day to day?
Or how about we do this?
How about we just focus on yournutrition for three or four
weeks and let's see if you startto think better?
Do you have more energy whenyou go play?
Do you feel way better?
Problem solved of just helpingthat player to think more about
and be thoughtful about thenutrition consistently.
And next thing you know they'relike oh my God, I have so much

(51:17):
more.
This feels great.
And bam, literally 60% of theissues were solved right then
and there, because now theyweren't going in feeling drained
and exhausted and this personwas annoying me because now they
had energy.
It was like, oh okay, yeah,yeah, yeah, whatever, no big
deal, and it literally shiftedtheir perspective and their
mindset.
So it's stuff like that, rightEducationally to your point.
You know, jason, with thisprocess, that that's the

(51:39):
challenge is, there's so muchnuance baked into understanding
that you don't know what itactually means.
Yet Number one educationally,people don't know we can means
yet number one educationally,people don't know we can call
whatever we want mindset, mentalperformance, thoughtfulness,
mindfulness just there's tons ofnames.
We can put labels on it but atthe end of the day, the
fundamental root of it, like youknow, we and I we talk about

(52:00):
this all the time of like yourthought process will never be
faster than your belief system.
It just won't be like whateverthat processing of like how you
think about things.
It'll just never be faster thanyour belief system.
It just won't be like whateverthat processing of like how you
think about things.
It'll just never be faster thanyour belief system.
What do you actually believe?
And to your point earlier, likeyou said, you said it perfectly
the best players, the mostcommitted players, they know
they want this.

(52:20):
So their belief is I want toimprove, I want to get better.
So who works with us?
The top players?
Because in their brains alreadythey're thinking I want to be
better.
So I'm going to look for everyadvantage I can that's out there
to help me be better.
But the issue is with a lot ofother players that aren't
committed yet.
They don't know whether or not?

(52:40):
Do they really want to playcollege level?
Do they really want to playjunior level?
Do they really want to play pro?
They haven't answered thatquestion fundamentally yet, and
because they haven't now, it'severybody else's fault.
Well, this person's this, thisperson's that, whereas the
ballplayers Kobe Bryant, any oneof them, right and I'm not
talking about that you make itto the NHL, you make it to

(53:00):
Division I or you play majorjunior.
I'm just talking about themindset of I accept it for what
it is.
I may fail at what this is, butI'm going to do the work
because that's what I want to do.
I want to live my life as ahigh-performing individual and
I'm committed to this processand I'm going to do the work.
And that's what we're notringing the bell on is.
We're all trying to go on anddo the same thing, and on

(53:22):
Instagram, youtube, we're alltrying to say these things, but
at the end of the day, thefundamental root of it is how
many of these families, players,coaches, right, whoever it is
how many of them really want todo the work that's required to
be involved in this chaos,because it's an insane game in
so many ways.
It's a beautiful game.
It's a super fun game, but whenwe talk about the team

(53:44):
collective aspect of it, it'snerve wracking, it, it's super
challenging, and that's the part, right, that we don't
appreciate enough of like, yeah,it's hard to do all that stuff
like and at the source of it isyour thinking, your thought
process, like do you work on howyou're viewing things and
seeing things?
Are you reflective, are youunderstanding that, so you can

(54:05):
get better at that?
Oh, I used to think this way,but now I, man, that was a silly
way to think.
Are we talking about that?
Just like we talk about thepower play or the PK?
And, oh man, it's not workingand we're all.
We spend hours, right, thecoaches?
Right, we'll spend hours.
This is the problem, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's notdoing this.
No-transcript.

(54:35):
Five on five hockey and away wego, yeah for sure, oh for sure,
yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Uh, oh yeah.
There's so many things going onin the hockey locker room,
which is why it makes it one ofthe most beautiful games in the
world too.
You know, like theaccountability to each other,
and I even I even frame thatunderneath mindset too, is like
how, like why, why being a goodteammate matters for you, not
only for your own personal likeexcellence and for your own
personal advancement, but alsofor, like the like, why the

(55:05):
success of the team actuallymatters.
I mean, like, like thoseprinciples of that, sometimes we
don't really get it.
We almost feel like somebodyelse's success in that
environment is to our demise and, and that's a belief system
that you're talking about thatis now holding us back from
being our best.
Well, so let's unwind wherethat belief came from and talk
about what is maybe a more, amore serving belief system.

(55:25):
That is actually true, you know, to the mechanism and I love
that.
I mean, the philosophy behindit all and the psychology behind
it all is like I love it, Ijust geek out on it, and it's
the thing that vast majority ofpeople just aren't drawn to
naturally.
So that's why there's so muchopportunity there.
I think, when you can't exposethem to them, like the lights go

(55:46):
on and it's, and it's like holy, wow, this is a big deal.
Um, the example I use, and and I, I had him on the pod and then
he did.
He had a bad connection and andwe never were able to get it re
, uh, reorganized again.
But it was a Nathan Gerby andso I know you know him and for
those of you out here that don't, he played in the NHL at
standing at a towering five footfour.

(56:08):
He was the shortest positionplayer to ever play in the sport
and we're talking like recentlyhe played and he wrote an
article in the Players' Tribunewhich I highly recommend anyone
to read and I use it as part ofmy program and he talks about
all the crazy stuff that he did,right, like growing up and the
crazy stuff that his dad madehim do.

(56:28):
And you know, like the intenseworkouts and like his philosophy
, like going into a game to tryand run over the biggest player
in the other team, every singlegame.
You know as kind of like proofthat I mean he wouldn't be
stopped.
But there was one line in thearticle where he says I believe
that my size would not dictatemy future and to me, like when I

(56:51):
use that, I'm like that's it,that's everything.
If he didn't believe that, noneof the other shit he would have
done, he wouldn't have been thehardest working guy in the gym.
He wouldn't have pushed thecars around the parking lot, he
wouldn't have ran over thebiggest guy in the ice, because
it wouldn't have meant anything,right?
So, like I know Mike and washis belief system correct?
Well, it was correct for him.

(57:12):
Everyone else in the worldthought it was wrong, right.
So it's like the belief is whatyou choose, like it really is a
choice.
And so why don't we buildourselves with belief systems
that serve us and what we wantfor our goals, because if
they're in the way, we're in ourown way Right.
And for want for our goals,because if they're in the way,
we're in our own way right.
And for Nathan Gerby, he had abelief system that allowed him
to do the things required forhim to play in the NHL, and I
just don't think there's a like.

(57:33):
That's such a little beautifulexample, because I think it's so
black and white in thatscenario that he would not have
played if he believed anythingelse yeah, 100, 100.
Just take a quick moment herefrom the podcast to chat about
Up my Hockey and what'shappening for the 25-26 season.

(57:55):
I know a lot of you coacheslisten to this podcast.
I know there's a lot ofadministrators as well.
If you do not have a mentalfitness program for your team or
for your association academy,look no further than Up my
Hockey.
We have grown and we areexpanding further than Up my
Hockey.
We have grown and we areexpanding.
We're going to have coachesunderneath the umbrella along

(58:15):
with me and we can serve all thecompetitive teams that you can
bring to us.
That is the idea is that theplayers grow their mental
fitness along with your programor association as they advance
through the age groups.
They advanced through theirmental fitness programming
without my hockey.
It is a staple on curriculumthat you can add to any academy,

(58:37):
any association, any team, andI'm being so serious when I say
that if you aren't doing this,you are missing out on a huge
competitive advantage, but alsoon a personal, individual player
advantage.
If you want to have a cultureset from the start of the year
uh, that the players and thecoaches can get behind uh and

(59:00):
and get excited about uh, youwould be amazed how many
problems go away, how much moreresilient the group is, how much
more they look after each other, how much more they're
dedicated to their ownindividual development, how much
more competitive practices are.
The list goes on and on.
Uh, uh, when players startcoming and arriving to the rink
with the mindset required to betheir best, not only as an
individual, but as a team, uh,so, yeah, this is fun, it's all

(59:23):
I mean.
And and let's not forget thefact that, although we do want
competitive advantage, uh, incompetitive sports, uh, you're
also giving your players thegift of mindset which will last
with them outside of the rinkand after they're done playing
the game.
So, yes, if you want to getinvolved in this for next season
, now's the time that people areplanning for it.

(59:44):
So coaches, managers, reach out, association heads, presidents,
gms, by all means get in touchdirectly on the website or to me
at jason at upmyhockeycom, andwe will make sure you get, get
taken care of and on theschedule for next year.
Now let's get back to myconversation with vinnie maltz

(01:00:07):
and and that's the challenge,right there, right it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
It's like you know, I remember talking to one player
about this years ago in that wayand I don't think you might
have shared about Ross Colton,right, we had a good discussion
about this of how when he was incollege, he felt like he was
considered almost crazy becauseof his belief in like meticulous
detail.

(01:00:30):
And then he gets to the NHL andit's like, oh, he's in heaven.
He's like, wow, there's otherpeople like me.
This is cool and to your point,how many years, growing up as a
local guy, I'd hear thescuttlebutt and, oh, he doesn't
get it, he's this, he's that andoh, he's he's challenging the
work with and there was no issuethere, it was, he was just

(01:00:52):
dialed, he was super intense.
So imagine, right, how manypeople, oh, oh, look at you
being a hero in the gym.
Or oh, this guy, johnny, toughguy, always trying to be work so
hard, outworked, everybody howmany people get annoyed by that
energy of like, oh, my god, butthen it's that person.
Their belief is so strong inwhat they are that, literally,
it's like the people that don'tbelieve that they revolt against

(01:01:14):
like, oh, why are you soserious about?
that.
But then, but then they want,they want to watch the instagram
video.
They want to feel better oflike oh, I watched jason, I
watched the video they put out.
Oh, I get it now.
I get it now.
Okay, I'm good, I'm good, I'mgood, I'm gonna be okay now and
it's like no, you're not gonnabe okay what you don't
understand is whoever it isthat's in our cultures are
driven.

(01:01:35):
They're quote unquote, if youwant to call it crazy a little
bit Because, not because in anunhealthy way well, some may be
unhealthy at times but in a waythat's like positive for them in
their spirit.
Their spirits align with.
I love this so much, I'm sopassionate To your point.
It's meaningful, it means somuch to me.
I'm in on this and that getslost in translation.

(01:01:57):
All this because now guys likeus are out there putting things
out and people will hear ourmessage.
And I don't know how oftenyou're dealing with this, jason,
like where it's like oh, oh,that sounds so simple, I'll just
go do that.
That sounds so easy.
And it's like well, I know howit sounds and what I just said,
but that's going to take monthsfor you to develop that if you
truly want to change that.

(01:02:18):
But it's not as simple as itjust sounded.
Like what I said, like it'sgoing to take a lot of work for
you to undo your naturalinstincts and your fixed mindset
and all the other things thatlike the influence around you
day to day.
Yes, in this moment, right now,people listening.
Yeah, You're in it.
You're listening to us, youthink this is great.
You're probably turning to yourkid and going see, see, see I

(01:02:39):
tell you that all the time andyou're having this fun
conversation in the car oryou're watching it, whatever it
is, and you feel so good aboutit, great.
But as soon as we're gone andnow you're on to the next video,
or you're on to the next thingat work, or you're on the next
thing at the house, you'reforgetting about it real fast,
whereas we don't forget, we dothis on to the next thing and we

(01:02:59):
go back to work.
We go back to work every day.
It's reflecting and making surehow's my process, is it working
?
How do I replicate, how do I doit again?
And that's the challenge, right?
Is that?
You know?
You look at youth hockey ingeneral, right?
How many coaches are, week toweek, changing up their practice
plans and doing somethingcompletely different and new all
the time and they think,because they're being novel, oh,

(01:03:20):
you've got to always change itup.
Yeah, you can change up thethings, but you change them up
fundamentally doing the samething, not focus on something
completely different this weekand next week and now they never
actually got deep roots intoanything.
And that's the hard part, right.
It's like people don't realizethat the next level of what that

(01:03:41):
is is it's to point earlier.
It's boring, it's mundane, butthe only way to actually change
and develop it is because you'reliving your reality.
You're personally committed to acertain part of your process.
I'm going to make this shotwork or I'm going to make this
play work, whatever it is.
And because you're spendingeach day thinking about did it
work?
Did it not work?

(01:04:01):
Why didn't it work?
Okay, if this worked today,great.
Well, maybe that won't worktomorrow because we're playing a
different opponent.
Well, I have to do itdifferently.
And you stay dialed into thatover and over and over again and
that to people.
But what do you mean?
We're not doing new stuff.
Why aren't we doing more stuff?
And it's like you don't get itof, like that's the challenge
with all this is that how can Ifigure out how to stay connected

(01:04:24):
to the consistency of this ideathat I know this works for me,
this is what works for me and myprocess.
And I got to say Dial didn'tknow that.
And that's a whole othermechanism that's so hard for
people to appreciate becausefarmer's mindset it's boring.
How many people want to justget up, go to work, do the same
stuff all over again for 12hours, go sleep and go again and

(01:04:46):
do it again?
Because they're looking at itin a long-term investment of?
I'm not just looking at this,this for now, I'm looking to see
where this takes me in the nextdecade and that just it's.
It's a hard mindset shiftbecause there's so many camps
and clinics and summer teams andadvisors and coaches and
there's so many wonderful thingsof.

(01:05:06):
I just need that person tosolve it for me, as opposed to
to no.
You need to see first what doyou want, what do you believe,
what do you want to do first,then build out and and to your
point earlier, it's theeducational process.
That's where we're lacking inbehind, because we're not
teaching that every day of no,no.
If you want to say you want toplay AAA, if you say you want to

(01:05:27):
play major junior, if you sayyou want to play D1, you say you
want to play D1, you say youwant to play pro, you can do
that right now.
You don't have to wait tillyou're there.
You can start acting like thatnow.
Are you doing the thingsnecessary to figure out.
Well, this behavior is that way, but this behavior is not.
Are you really figuring it outbecause you want it?
Versus well, I say I want itbecause everybody else wants it.

(01:05:50):
But really I don't want to workthat hard and that's a really
hard thing to answer for a humanbeing, because you know it's
ego, it's, you know, it's thewhat's the word I'm looking for?
It's the FOMO, right, it's theshiny object syndrome of oh, we
got to have that too.
Like, oh, they have it.
So I have keeping up with theJoneses.
Like, oh, they have it.

(01:06:13):
So I have keeping up with thejoneses.
Like, oh, your kid, oh, yourkid's an amazing player.
Oh, what did you do?
Their kid's an amazing player.
What do you mean?
What did they do?
That has nothing to do withyour process.
You can ask them for someadvice, but your kid and you're
they're going to go on twodifferent journeys.
What are you talking about?
What did you do?
Like we're trying to go askthat person.
It's like you're not thatperson.
Why are you talking to thatperson?
Like it's great to hear someinsight?
You're not that person, becauseif you were, you know it right

(01:06:37):
the uh, yeah, it's, it's, uh,it's, it's, there's.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
So there's so much there, like the one thing that I
I, when I'm listening to youtalk, I'm thinking about a
conversation I had with bradlarson, who was head coach at
columbus, the assistant coach,just recently in calgary and and
and our conversation he wastalking about.
You know guys coming throughhis door as a coach and you know
, whatever asking questions orwanting an opinion or not
knowing, you know, usually it'san increase in minutes or they

(01:07:03):
want these things right.
And so you know he was justspeaking that you know, be
prepared If you want to askthose questions, that's awesome,
but he's like, be prepared foranswers.
You might not want to hear.
And and if you get an answer,you might not want to hear.
What are you willing to doabout the information given?
And and he said on that stage,even like the nhl stage, how
rare it was for, like, thefeedback provided, like, let's

(01:07:25):
say, you mean to use the exampleearlier of getting the puck out
, you know, on the half wall,like maybe there was a winger
that's having problems with thatand he wants to earn more
minutes, but the coach feelsthat he can't trust him in these
environments enough, so heneeds to go work on that.
He said for four players to becontinued to work on that.
He's like the first week 99% ofguys will be out there working
on that stuff, but he said theamount of guys six weeks later

(01:07:46):
that will be working on that,that, he said, are almost zero.
And he says it blows his mindhow, like guys forget or can't
be consistent or stop with theprocess, uh and again.
So I'm saying this to mylisteners who are not nhl level
probably barely any of them andand so we're now we're talking
about developing thisconsistency, to be not
distracted, to have simplicity,to have you know, this idea of

(01:08:10):
building my personal operatingmanual and being consistent to
that.
How do we give them someinsight or some actionable thing
to do that?
And I will preface this oneother way I'll say when I'm
working with players, I thinkthat just the awareness that
this could be a weakness of mineis sometimes enough to get you

(01:08:33):
over the hump.
You know, to be able to look inthe mirror and say you know
what I'm not consistent enough,like when I'm motivated I do
things, but when I'm notmotivated I don't.
Sometimes, when you're notmotivated the next time.
That realization of that allowsyou to get over that hump and
be like this is my opportunityto now get better.
This is my opportunity to growin this situation.
Sometimes it is just thatsimple.

(01:08:56):
Be like this is my opportunityto now get better.
This is my opportunity to growin this, in this situation.
Sometimes it is just thatsimple, but anyways, I I'll.
I'll give you the mic and say,like, how do we help young
players become more consistentin something that sometimes NHL
level players can't even do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Yeah, no amen.
And that right there, clip itof like that is so spot on, of
like how many players?
It's exactly it, you know, same, same thing, whether it's
professional players, divisionone players, all the high level
same idea.
You've recognized something andyou got to put the time in.
But, that being said, I alwayslook back on a mentor of mine.

(01:09:22):
Nick Peterson said it perfectlythe process is the shortcut.
The process is the shortcut.
So, fundamentally, what you wantto engage with is it's funny,
right, hockey's already doing it.
You have a 1-2-2, a 2-1-2, or aD-Zone system.
So, for yourself, you have tohave some kind of framework.
You can choose whatever youwant, but mentally, you have to

(01:09:44):
create some type of frameworkthat you use, that you can
engage with daily to remindyourself okay, here's what I'm
doing.
So for us, right, we'll use themost basic framework that we
use is I am what I do and I dois identify, direct and own.
So identify, okay, what's theone skill set, the one play, the

(01:10:05):
one concept non-negotiable thatmight happen from coach that I
need to be good at or else Iwon't have the ice time,
whatever it is?
You identify that thing as atarget, right, because I always
like to use the analogy anybodywatching, right, I'll go.
Right.
Now I'm putting my if you'relistening, I'm putting my
fingers down you can't see themand I'll say how many fingers am
I holding up?
How many fingers?
And so players are kind ofguessing and they're trying to
figure out, or how many fingersam I holding up?

(01:10:26):
All right, so now I put up,I've got two right.
So the idea is that if you havea target, if you identify, I'm
going there.
So you think about it like aGPS.
If I know the address, I'mgoing to.
Well, now it doesn't matter howI'm going to get there.
I know I can get there.
I might hit traffic, whatever,but I know now that's the
destination.
So rule number one is identify.

(01:10:48):
Where are you going?
What's the target?
Just pick one, and againvaluable, something that will
happen repetitively, at leastthree times a game.
It's going to happen multipletimes a game.
It could happen three to 10times a game.
It could be something as simpleagain, chipping, pucks out,
making that pass initially right.
It could be something so simple.
That's like you know what, byme doing that, it's getting me

(01:11:08):
out of defensive trouble, or byme doing that, it's creating
offense right, or as a goalie,it might be by me doing that,
communicating to my players infront of the net.
It's helping them to have eyesbehind their head.
You pick your thing, identify,get a target, then direct.
So now it's okay.
What are all the variables?
What are all the ways that, ifthis is the process, okay, well,

(01:11:35):
I'm going'm gonna let's use asimple one, right, I'm gonna
chip pucks out every single timetoday, or I'm gonna get pucks
up as soon as I get back there.
I'm gonna boom, move to get thepuck and move it right away.
Cool, direct, all right.
So I'm gonna chip the pucks outDirect.
So what direct is?
Those are the just like in theGPS.
Those are the little directionsthat go with it.
Right, so, 12 miles here at, or12 kilometers right here, 14
kilometers there.
Right, so, 12 miles here or 12kilometers right here, 14
kilometers there.
What you're doing is now you'recreating the images, the

(01:11:56):
narratives, the ideas and theconcepts that are based in
reality.
So, if I'm trying to chip thepuck out, okay.
So what are the constraints?
What are the challenges I mightdeal with?
Well, if I receive it on mybackhand, I'm a lot weaker than
if I'm on my forehand, I get itout pretty easily.
Great.
So now I know, belief systemknows I get it out easily when
it's on my forehand Cool.
So I don't even have to thinkabout the forehand because I

(01:12:17):
already confidently know andbelieve I get it out easily.
There's enough evidence toprove.
I know I don't need to work onthat because I'm good at that,
but my backhand, that'schallenging, okay, cool.
So if it's challenging thebackhand, what's challenging?
Is it the way I'm receiving thepuck in a situation?
Is it when a defenseman comesdown on me to get it out?
Is it the area that I'm in?
I just get nervous, right?

(01:12:37):
What you want to develop is theability to recognize.
Is it a physical thing of how Iphysically might move through
the situation?
Right, so how my body'spositioned in that situation
that I need to work on.
Is it a mental thing, adecision I'm making?
I'm overplaying it or I think Idon't have enough time when I
actually do Right?
Or is it just emotional?
I'm afraid to get it on my back, like please don't give it to

(01:12:58):
me.
Like it's just an emotionalreaction.
I just don't have confidenceand please don't give it to me
there.
Please don't give it to methere.
Please don't give it to methere a way of going.
You know what I can work onthat, okay.
So now I've directed it.
These are the constraints,these are the challenges I might
deal with, right and so, or youknow what I'm really good at

(01:13:18):
receiving on my forehand, so howcan I move and direct it in the
today's game?
I'm gonna get on my forehand.
I'm gonna keep positionrepositioning myself today so I
can get on my forehand and, bam,get it up and out right, like
you can see it.
But what you're doing is you'reacting as your director.
On the duality of hockey I thinkwe talked about this, right.
I'm like you've got to see bothsides of the game right.
You've got to see it as I might.
I'm weak at this, I'm not greatat it, but I'm strong at this,

(01:13:41):
and so if you can identify bothsides right Offense, defense,
winning and losing hot, cold.
Reality is based in two sides,if you can see how well, this is
challenging, but I'm reallystrong at this Now you can flip
it and go.
How am I going to direct this?
Like, okay, so if I'm in achallenging position, this is

(01:14:01):
what I'll do, but if I can bendthe game and be in a
consistently strong favoriteposition, well, I'm going to do
that all day long.
So you've identified the target.
You've now figured out, you'vedirected in your own head right,
even talking through it, you'respending that time as we're
talking through.
That's what the player wants todo is imagine, see yourself
through it.
But as you're imagining thoseideas, don't imagine fairy tales
, don't think about fantasy.
Think about real worldchallenges.

(01:14:23):
That just happened lastpractice.
What happened in the last game?
What do you actually know isreal?
That's happening right now inyour reality.
Right, is real, that'shappening right now in your
reality, right?
We call it the 72-hour rule ofyou always want to look present.
You want to look at three daysbefore, three days after.
You don't need to go anywhereelse, like just where am I now?
What evidence have I had overthe last 72 hours?
What evidence do I have ofwhere I'm going the next 72

(01:14:44):
hours?
Simple, stay present.
And so the idea with that isfor the players to recognize.
Okay, so these are thechallenges, or this is what's
working, good, awesome, now I'mprepared for whatever.
And then the last part is owningit is.
Reflect on it.
Okay, you just did it, you justplayed a practice, you just did
a game.
Did you do it?
What happened?
What did you observe in reality?

(01:15:04):
That just happened.
Did it work?
Did it not work?
What did you think about?
Or what didn't you think about?
What were the directions?
Was there traffic?
That was like, oh, wow, Ididn't even think about this.
But the next time, the nextgame of practice, I'm going to
think about that.
I'm going to improve this partof how I chip it out.
Or, wow, you know what Ithought about chipping it out of
my backhand and I realized, oh,I just physically, I just

(01:15:25):
wasn't getting it under enough.
But today, when I did that, ohmy god, it worked.
So you know what next practiceI'm going to work on getting
under it.
And just now, kobe Bryant, I'mgoing to boom, develop that over
and over and over again,because that's so much easier.
Like that, I had an aha moment.
I got to make sure I get thatdown on that reflection and
rinse and repeat.
So identify, direct and own isall about identify what that

(01:15:46):
target is.
Direct is okay.
See all the variables, think itright, really understand.
You could come back to the.
You know those, uh, thequestions, you know the stories,
being able to come conversationlike dig into that right, what
is that right there, that's themeat and then own it.
Did I do it or not?
Don't have coach tell you, eventhough it feels good.

(01:16:07):
Don't have your parents tellyou, even though it feels good
it's nice to hear from them, butfrom yourself Did I do it today
or not?
Be honest with yourself,self-assess yourself and say did
I do that or not?
Yes, I did that today or no, Ididn't.
And here's why.
And if you could just get aframework, get a system in your
own head or in your own processthat is going to reflect on your

(01:16:28):
process that you are committedto now, you can build upon that
self-awareness mechanism thatwe've been talking about.
But if you don't have a system,you don't have a process to
walk through your own brain andyour own head and your own
thoughts, it's not going to work.
So, fundamentally, a simple wayidentify right, put the target
on there.
What is it?
Boom, I know where I'm going.
Direct it.
Put all the different variablesthat might happen.

(01:16:49):
Think it through how I'm goingto do it today, what's going to
happen, what I need to preparefor and then reflect on it when
it's over, right.
So before identify it, beforethink about where it's going
before, then go play, do andthen own it afterwards.
Did it happen or not?
And why not?
Or why did it happen?
And if you just keep that loop,going to your point six weeks,

(01:17:14):
that's amazing how much I'veseen players right.
That's.
That's literally why we'vestopped working with players is
because what I observed wasyou're not doing the work.
So, like what are we doing here?
You're not.
You're not really interestedand invested into what this is.
You just want to go on the iceand play skills, and well,
that's fine.
But if you really want tochange your mindset and thought
process, that's the work.
You have to know how you thinkabout it and then keep on
battling.
For how am I going to thinkabout it later with this updated

(01:17:36):
software?
By going in reality, right, notimagining.
You know, jason, likevisualization, game seven,
stanley Cup.
Why are you imagining thatYou're not in game seven,
stanley Cup?
Like, imagine where you areright now.
Like, what are you doing now?

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Not this fantasy that you're having in your head and
you think that's visualization,right, right, yeah, the uh, I, I
for everyone listening.
I think the, the underlyingtheme here is a way that I
phrase it is at some point youcan.
You can play hockey, which is100 fine, it's an amazing sport.

(01:18:10):
Play hockey all you want, butif you want to be a hockey
player, that's when you'readding in this nuance and the
details and and and the strategyreally of of everything else
that happens.
And I think the, the younger,and it's not it's not being
maniacal about it, but like theyounger that somebody does get
that process of like I, it's notjust me showing up up the rink

(01:18:31):
when mom and dad dropped me off,and it's not just me doing my
workout, when I'm told to do theworkout, but it's me applying
this level of awareness to thepractice, to the workout, to my
time outside of those thingswhere I'm maximizing what it is
that I want to do, which is begreat.
You know, like, how can I begreat?
How can I get better?
And without the uh, without theability to reflect and without

(01:18:54):
the ability to plan and execute,like we're completely missing
huge opportunities there.
So, like, that's what I getexcited about and I hope that
other people listening to thisright now like players that
maybe you're doing well, maybeyou're not doing well either
camp.
If you haven't thought aboutwhat you can bring to a regular

(01:19:15):
team practice when it comes toyour own individual skill, even
something as simple as that,what can you do in today's team
practice that the coach hasdesigned, that you know you are
focusing on something for youspecifically.
Wow, like that's double endingthe practice.
Now you've had two practicesinstead of one, right, so it's
like I just want everyone tounderstand like that, like
that's what we're talking about.
We're just talking aboutintentionality and awareness

(01:19:39):
within that, and you can spikeyour development curve
drastically by understandingthat concept.

Speaker 1 (01:19:45):
Yep, amen, amen.
And that's the challenge, right, like to your point, jason,
what we're all dealing with is alot of people are like, oh,
it's another thing.
Right, we went through withstrength and conditioning for
years.
I remember back in the day whenthem just started out with
strength and conditioning20-something years ago and I was
doing player development stuffand I was already kind of

(01:20:06):
thinking mindset stuff there oflike, well, here's why we do the
squat, because when you're inthis position on the ice, or
here's why we launch, or why whyyou'll do bench and all that
stuff, right, so I was alreadythinking about that.
But that's the issue.
I think that a lot of peopleare oh, I gotta add another
thing to this.
As opposed to well, no, it'squite the opposite.
Like, what this thing does isit makes you more efficient, it

(01:20:27):
makes you more mindful of oh, Idon't have do everything.
You start to learn how toprocess of elimination, well,
what works, what's actuallyhelping me and useful for my
process and what is not.
You're auditing your process.
As opposed to, yeah, playersare doing so much now.
But the issue is, it's like thediner menu effect.
Right, they were talking aboutsomething like yeah, you walk

(01:20:48):
into the diner and there's tonsof things to eat on the menu.
But you know you love that gyrosandwich.
That's man, when I come here,this is not.
That is so good, it's good.
So that's what you're trying tofight for is like, if you know
that's good, go eat it.
Not well, I don't know, maybethat other, I don't know and
then you grab the other sandwichand then you're like, oh man, I
should have grabbed the Euro.

(01:21:09):
Players are.
That's the analogy of whatplayers are doing is they're not
realizing.
Is you know?
And especially if you've seenthis, the higher up you go.
I'm always amazed at how much,when I initially consult with a
player and I talk to them, theyknow what they need to do.
They know the answer already.
They already know what theyneed to improve and change.
It's just they haven't had theconfidence to believe in it.

(01:21:29):
That it's that simple or wow,like that's all I have to do.
Yeah, I know it sounds simple,but now we got to work on it
Because you're going to haveother ideas and you're going to
have to battle for well, coachesthink something different.
So do you know how to goarticulate to coach?
What specifically you'rethinking?
Because that's not normal.
That's not normal to go talk tocoach, but if you're going to

(01:21:50):
allow coach to keep telling youand you don't have the courage
to go talk and say well, here'swhat I think, and you know I'm a
little confused, coach, sothere's a constraint there,
right, you're going to, you'regoing to lose out on that.
So I think that's the part whereit's not another thing, it's
the thing in terms of efficiencyprocess, to really be able to

(01:22:10):
take everything and audit it andsay what actually matters to my
process and the age oldconfidence.
Everybody talks aboutconfidence, right, and it's like
to your point earlier, like howcan you be confident in
something if you don't know what?
That is right, like we alwaystalk about I think you know it's
greater than I, or I think is,or I know it's greater than I

(01:22:30):
think you have to know.
You have to know, like it's nota, I think two, no, no, it's a,
no, no, I know.
No, no, it's two, it's two, andthat's the way the brain works.
Is you have to know in yourprocess I know this is what I'm
going to go do, and then let thegame reveal itself of you know
what.
This is, what I think it was,but for some reason it's not

(01:22:52):
working.
But a mindful athlete, that'swhat they're so good at, and I
think that's the constraintwe're all dealing with is it's
not another thing, it's not a ohwell, now I got to go do more.
I got to do mindset work.
I got to do strength addition.
I got to go do skills.
I got to work on my skating.

(01:23:17):
No, like no, the opposite.
If you are dialed, this is whatI teach other guys that are
dialed.
It's like well, since you'redialed, we're going to teach you
leadership.
We're going to teach you nowhow to be a coach and how to
influence and help others aroundyou on your team so you can
have more fun with yourteammates.
Right, you're gonna enjoy thegame more if you're now helping
others.
Yeah, yeah, you're right,you're dialed.
But what about?
Everybody else is participatingwith you.

(01:23:38):
You get to help now with that.
Oh, cool all right, sweet, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Yeah, when I was listening to that, I mean I've
had some my own personalexperiences with with coaches
that I mean I hate to put it asa hierarchy and I don't know
where I am in this hierarchy, ifthere even is one.
But you know, like somebodythat was, I was into high
performance in psychology and Iwas somebody that would
self-assess and do these thingsright, I mean as a player, and I

(01:24:05):
ran into coaches that justweren't like that at all, you
know I mean.
So now you walk in with thisability to communicate or at
least least a perceived abilityto communicate where you're at
and what you want to do, andunderstand the macro idea of,
hey, we want a team that wins,yet I'm an individual in this
environment that also wants tomove on and succeed, and then
you kind of get a door slammedin your face at different times.

(01:24:25):
So why I bring that up isbecause, yes, I do teach and
promote and advocate for forplayers to be able to
communicate.
It's a lost art, even more sothan it ever has been.
So, yeah, why do you do thethings you do?
And and and and why?
You know what.

(01:24:45):
What do you do and why do youdo it and what do you feel about
that and why and all the restof it.
And even though, like that isamazing for the individual
athlete, you I mean gosh Vinnyhow many times do you walk into,
deal with a strength coach ordeal with the coach or deal with
whatever like if you don'tunderstand or have an idea of
where they're coming from,you're screwed right.
So, like this helps that too,because you have to manufacture

(01:25:09):
and create relationships if youwant to get anywhere in this,
and the more you understandwhere your coach is coming from,
the better you are going to beable to interact in that
relationship.
So, I don't know, I thinkthat's almost more paramount
than any of it is theinterpersonal scenarios, whether
it's with your line mates, yourteammates or with the coaching
staff, the guys that are makingdecisions.
There's a game of chess to beplayed if you want to play it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
A thousand and you nailed it right.
One simple story that I recallover the years and this has
happened many times one of ourDivision I players in the summer
goes and works with his skillscoach.
Right Shooting coach has ashooting coach he's working with
, goes in, starts working.
It's a couple of weeks into itand he's telling me what they're
working on.
I'm like oh hold on.
Are you working on everythingthat we identified about where

(01:25:52):
your shots are coming from?
You know you're coming off thewall.
You're coming in.
Did you tell them about that?
Oh no, no, I haven't talked tothem about that.
I mean, hold on.
So you know, in your processwe've done all this work for the
last six, seven months thisyear playing.
You know how you've beenthinking through it and you're
going to work with this shootingcoach in the offseason and

(01:26:14):
you're not telling them what youwere thinking and what you
needed to work on.
That you naturally found,through playing Division I
hockey Like it's legit hockey.
You discovered it for yourself.
You know this works and you'renot sharing that with the person
that's about to train you andthey're just going to go do
their thing and go rogue anddevelop whatever they want to.
That's to your point.
What a massive constraint oflike.
What are you doing?
And I gave it to him.

(01:26:35):
Oh, okay, okay, sorry, sorry,I'll go talk to him and create a
little thing for him to likehere, bring this, use this as a
highlight to remember, to keepyou dialed in.
But what are you doing?
You got to go talk to him aboutthat and that's to your point.
Why so much of important?
Of no one, right?
No one's going to tell you youhave to walk in and go.

(01:26:56):
Hey, oh, strength conditioningcoach.
Okay, cool skating coach.
Hey, well, here I want to usethis.
You're going to be the expert,but I'm using it, this, to
develop these patterns, thesethoughts, this kind of stuff
that I'm doing in the game.
Can you help me develop?
I'll still do the fundamentalsof what you're teaching, but I
also need you to teach me how toimprove this, because this
happens to me multiple times agame when I play Right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Yeah, yeah, I love it .
I know that your constraintsfor time are very complex.
Yeah, yeah, I'll let you go,maybe we'll just leave you with
one thing for the audience.
I don't know where you want togo, but I like kind of asking
sometimes what your definitionof mental toughness is or what
your definition of mindset isand why that's important to
athletes.
And maybe we'll leave it atthat.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
No, mental toughness to me,honestly, is it's accepting the
conditions for what they are andbeing willing to say you know
what it is, what it is, and Ilove doing this.
I love it's the old, it's theold, you know, become
comfortable with beinguncomfortable.
I think what we don't recognizeis and I give this analogy to
players all the time it's notabout learning how to process

(01:28:02):
the feel good stuff.
If the feel good stuff workedand that's all it was everybody
would be doing it and therewould be.
We wouldn't exist.
There wouldn't be anything toexist.
Reason why we exist because weknow the higher up you go,
you're managing where 80% of theseason is going to feel
uncomfortable.
There's going to beconversations that need to be
had.
There's going to be my body'sbreaking down on me.
There's going to be theoverwhelmingness of like whoa,
this is intense, you know.

(01:28:23):
There's going to be so manychanges coaching change.
There's going to be so manyvariables media and now you're
getting lambasted and it'sembarrassing publicly.
Many variables media and nowyou're getting lambasted and
it's embarrassing publicly.
So the mental toughness isrecognizing.
This is what I signed up forand I love being a part of this
right Pressure is a privilege.
So I love the fact that I getto be in this and it's going to
be hard, and I understand, likeI have no problem with the hard,

(01:28:47):
but that's what I'm developingis oh, this is what I signed up
for, right, like you'llappreciate this, how many times
I've had a you know NHL coach ora college coach hits me up and
starts complaining aboutsomething?
I'm like wow, I'm coaching inthe NHL.
Wow, I'm coaching Division Onecollege.
Wow, life is so hard.
Wow.
And they just start laughingand they're like you're right.

(01:29:08):
And it's where what we have torealize is we are choosing to
participate in this.
So mental toughness is that youknow you've accepted the
conditions for what they are.
This is what you signed up for.
And then you're recognizing oh,it's hard, that's okay, because
in order to do anythingworthwhile in this life, it's
hard.
Let's stop thinking that loveis easy, positive is easy.

(01:29:30):
You have to fight for thosethings.
It's hard, but you love it.
You love fighting for the heartyeah, perfect, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Um, well, you have a great day.
I really enjoy the conversation, as always.
I know that, uh, my listenerswill will have extracted a lot
from that and, uh, best of luckwith everything you're doing.
We didn't even talk about youand your journey, but I mean,
that's the way it goes.
We uh, maybe we'll have a parttwo and three, but yeah, it was
a ride.
Love what you're doing, acontinued success and uh, yeah

(01:29:58):
same, appreciate you man.
Thanks brother thank you so muchfor being here for the entire
episode, uh, but a little overan hour with vinny, I had a
blast.
Vinny, uh, is super pumped upand passionate about what he
does and I think that'sfantastic.
I think there is an energy tohigh performance.

(01:30:20):
I think that there isdefinitely a feeling behind it
and Vinny has been through it.
He's been through it with anumber of players and he brings
the energy every day to everyconversation.
It's something that gets uh himpsyched and uh, and I really
appreciate him sharing hisstories and his you know his
outlook on it.
Again, like I said at the startof of this, of this, um, this

(01:30:44):
conversation, or I guess in my,in my lead up to our
conversation, that there aremany messengers out there.
There are many differentmessages and some are very
similar.
Like parents come to me all thetime, you know, after their
players taking a program orhaving a call with me and saying
, oh, I just loved hearing whatI've been saying reinforced.

(01:31:04):
You know that.
You know we say very similarthings.
I'm not pretending that I don'tsay similar things in many
coaches and many parents outthere.
That's not really the point.
The point is, does it come fromsomebody that is going to apply
the information, or is itdelivered a different way that
perhaps they now hear itdifferently?

(01:31:25):
So whether it's the way themessage is delivered, whether
it's who the message isdelivered from, the message is
delivered, whether it's who themessage is delivered from, I
don't know.
I don't know the exact secretsauce.
I just know that sometimesplayers notice and sometimes
they will execute, and when theydo those things, they will get
results.
So whether that's from me,coach Pods, about my hockey and

(01:31:48):
my mental fitness program andthe Peak Potential program and
all the things I do, I might bethe person for you, and if I am,
that's fantastic.
Maybe it's one of my associatecoaches, that's the person for
you, and if that's the case,then fantastic.
Maybe it's Vinnie Maltz andthat's the person for you and
that's fantastic.
The idea here is that let's getbetter, let's get on the bus of

(01:32:10):
personal development, ofpersonal growth, of how to be
the best player you can be, howto understand what your process
is, what your personal operatingmanual is, how you can eclipse
developmental timelines by doingthings that you aren't doing
right now.
They're going to help you bethe best player you can be.
So by all means, look up vinnyat bloodlines hockey, you know.
Check out the up my hockeywebsite.

(01:32:32):
Search for a local sportspsychologist in your area or
somebody who does the thingsthat similar things to what
vinnie and I do.
It's all good.
We are all in this to help theplayers get better, help our
sport become better by providingbetter environments with better
mindsets, so things gopositively and people view

(01:32:53):
challenges as opportunities andfind solutions to problems and
not exasperate them.
Oh, my goodness, that was ahard word for me to say, but I
think you get the point.
So, vinny, I really appreciateyou coming on.
I really appreciate what you dofor the hockey community and
the life and energy you bring toit, and I know you're doing a
ton of great things for theplayers you work with and for

(01:33:14):
everyone else out there.
Dive into it, dive intopersonal development, dive into
the idea of mental fitness, whatit can do for you, what can it
do for your game, how it canhelp you with your outlook, with
your attitude, with your life.
And you know what my closer isUntil next time, you play hard
and keep your head up.
This is Jason Padilla withoutmy hockey.

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EP.152 - Unlocking Hockey Excellence: Mental Toughness and Personal Development with Vinny Maltz

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP.152 - Unlocking Hockey Excellence: Mental Toughness and Personal Development with Vinny Maltz