October 3, 2023 • 57 mins
Can you earn a living just through Value 4 Value? In Ep#52 we're going to examine how much I've made across my various shows & where I'd be if I had used advertising instead. Make sure you check the chapter art for all the fancy graphs I've created.
Huge thanks to Adam Curry, Sir Spencer, Gene Bean & Sam Sethi for supporting the show. You are now part of my data hehe.
15% of this episode is going to John Spurlock for his creation of OP3 and giving me handy graphs to use for nerd purposes.
Handy links:
OP3 Website: https://op3.dev/
Steven B On 'Bowl After Bowl': https://bowlafterbowl.com/episode-272/
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Huge thanks to Adam Curry, Sir Spencer, Gene Bean & Sam Sethi for supporting the show. You are now part of my data hehe.
15% of this episode is going to John Spurlock for his creation of OP3 and giving me handy graphs to use for nerd purposes.
Handy links:
OP3 Website: https://op3.dev/
Steven B On 'Bowl After Bowl': https://bowlafterbowl.com/episode-272/
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyrin Down (00:00):
Can you earn a living just through value for value?
Welcome everyoneto another episode
of the Valuefor Value podcast.
My name is Kyrin.
Host of the Mere Mortalsand Mere Mortals
Book Reviews podcast,but also,
well, actuallyalso the value for value.
And another one calledReseñas in Spanglish,
(00:21):
but we'll get on tothat soon.
This is the podcastfor those digital creators
who want to havea deeper connection
with their audience
and also be ableto monetise that.
And in this episodein particular,
we're really going to be
focusingon the monetisation.
I've talkeda lot about value before,
but this time
we're going to talk about
many, many,many, many, many
and whether you couldbe able to go full time
(00:43):
using the valuefor value model,
because I'vetalked about it a lot but
haven't really providedmany case examples of
people
who have gonethis full route
and whether this isactually the route
to try and go full timeor if you want to
do something else.
So we'll we'll lookat that in particular.
I've got a lot of graphsand I can tell you
my personal experience
(01:04):
and I've got a lot of data
to back up what I'm goingto be talking about here.
So yeah, let's just jumpinto it and jump into it.
So I think to start offwith probably
the scariest thingabout value for value
apart
from firststarting to ask,
which is reallyuncomfortable saying
because it kind of feels
like you're begging like,Oh, please,
please helpsupport the show.
(01:25):
It's it kind of
feels like,oh my God, Like, oh,
it's it'slike I'm begging for it.
Once you get over thatbarrier,
which I have talked aboutin previous episodes,
I think the next one is
that there'sno guarantees.
And so it's really ayou just have to start
start tryingand and see how it goes.
And there's no
fixed income,there is no contracts,
(01:47):
There is no the there's
nothingwritten and set in stone.
And so in this case it'slike, well, how do you
how do I knowif it even works?
So to start off with,there is one
big case example,and this is no agenda, so
no agenda is Adam Curryand Jonsi, the work show,
which they have donefor 16 years now.
(02:09):
They started off
a long time ago
and they have proventhat it works.
Absolutely.
They they dosolely value for value.
No ads, only supportedby the people listeners.
They call themproducers at home. And
they don't have paywalls,
don'thave anything like that.
And they've been doing itfor a long time
and have been ableto support themselves.
(02:30):
And if yougo into their show
and listento the amount of donations
coming in, it's a fairbit of money.
You can go, okay, yes,definitely.
These these guys are ableto support themselves
and their familiesthrough this,
but they are a huge,huge outlier.
I went on a little
discovery journeywith their show
because I didn't
actually really enjoythe show that much.
It's talking about newsand media, which I'm
(02:50):
I'm kind of iffy about,don't
really care and politics.
And but I was just sayinglike, okay,
how do they stop this off?
What was it like for them
And just from the get go,you know,
you're a huge outlierif you're getting 100,000
listeners per episode
beforeyou've even published 50,
which is whatthey had now.
(03:11):
They were, you know,
both of them were
well known,
successful before theywere doing podcasting,
but they were doing itwhen the podcasting
wasn't a saturated marketor when there was
certainlya lot less people.
All of these reasonsyou can go, okay,
they're a bitof an outlier official.
And so
when I look at othertypes of shows which have
(03:31):
adopted the valuesfor value, a lot of them
come from theNo agenda sort of nation
becausethey heard about it there.
This is wherethe model was created.
And when I look at them,
most of them I would saya kind of hobbyist shows.
I haven't found one,but I'm certain that yes,
they're doing thisfull time as well.
And so I wanted to know,you know,
(03:53):
is this going to workfor someone
who is wanting to go fulltime?
Will this work for someonewho really has a passion
for podcasting?
And so we'll justlive in it
to podcasting here
and not go into the othertypes of digital media.
If someone is a podcasterand wanting to do this,
can they actually goabout doing this?
What are some data sets?
(04:13):
Do we have any casestudies?
Can is there any wayto kind of predict
if this is possible?
And so I have decidedto do that myself.
So I really wantto become a podcast.
That's the onlything I really want to do,
engineering, whichis what I used to do,
not my cup of tea.
I would rather not do thatif possible.
And so I have give youa little bit of backstory
(04:36):
here of my historyof of podcasting.
So I have four main shows.
The first one was meremodels, the kind of like
flagship one.
This is what I started
in September of 2019with my co-host one.
I had another show
called Prisonersin Spanglish,
which I startedin December of 2020,
(04:57):
and this was whereI would do
book reviews,but in Spanish,
and I call it Spanglish
because my Spanish Spanishis my second night,
my second language.
I'm not native in it.
There was a lot of arms
and hoursand certainly times
where I would just sayan English word
because I didn't knowthe Spanish equivalent.
I had another showcalled Me
and Models book reviews,which I suppose
(05:17):
technically startedon February of 2021.
It actually startedmuch earlier
in termsof producing actual
book reviews,but these were in the
Miyamoto's feed.
And so it was all of
February 2021where we broke it up.
And so once again,I do this with Juan,
but I'm I'm the main one.I do most of the reading
(05:40):
and that
goes intoit went into its own feed.
And so technicallythat was
when the mad Models bookreview started.
And then the valuefor value show started.
The very oneyou listening to right now
of August of 2021.
So those are the four
podcaststhat I had in an RSS feed.
I had another
video type one,which was a play
(06:01):
around thing,but nothing serious.
And so
all of thesehave had the access
for ability to for people
to boost into the show,to contribute back
what has happenedacross these four shows.
We're now sitting hereor the 4th of October
20, 23.
So jeez,what a solid two years
(06:21):
from all of them
at least, and
four years from the mainme, a modest one.
What hashappened from that and
how would I have compared
if I had gone through
what you would saymaybe is the standard
route of advertising.
And the good thingfor all of you, dear
listeners at home,is that I am a nerd.
I mentioned I'm
(06:41):
an engineerand so I collect data.
I really,really like data.
And so what have I done?
I've collectedall of the data
from everythingthat we have received
in terms of contributions
from fromthe minimal lights
at arm, as well as whatwe call them.
And the.
Yep, I will
I'll just start listing
off some of this hereso you can get an idea.
(07:03):
And I wanted to break down
I supposeright at the start here,
the difference
betweenstreaming and boosting
and the different paymentmethods.
And so we have focussedvery heavily on the
ability to do paymentsthrough digital money,
through Bitcoin.
So this is the,
the streaming
and the boost
which I've talked about inprevious episodes,
(07:23):
and we have only veryrecently kind of set up
a PayPal linkfor someone to send
Fiat moneyif they wanted to.
And so most of all of this
data is actuallyfrom the boosting
because that's, that'swhat we've focussed on.
That's what we wantedpeople to do.
So value for value onceagain, is not Bitcoin.
It is not sending thingsthrough these apps
(07:46):
and and online like that.
It is people contributingvalue back.
But because we
that iswhat we're focussed
upon, That is what we havereceived.
So we actually don't haveany free fiat payments to
to speak of.
And if we had focussedupon that I'm sure,
sure we would have.
So that's just a caveatthere to start with.
And this is the numbers.
(08:06):
So if you lookon your screen now
and I would encourage youto get a podcasting app
which allows youto do that
because there's going
to be a lot of dataand graphs
appearing in the chapter.
Not so good ones for
this would be somethinglike pod fans like Cura.
Let's start with mobilepod fans on the mobile.
They've got a new
(08:27):
progressive web app,which is really cool.
I would also encourage youto look on Fountain
and on, which iseven podcast addict.
I know he brings it up.
I know pod verse brings itup, breeze brings it up
anyway,where you can get chapters
and you can see things inyour phone
would be valuablefor, for this.
And so
if you look on the top boxhere, I've got
(08:47):
as of April 1st, 2023.
So this is where
I had a big collationof all the data.
And you can see I've split
it up into three differentshows there.
The main models,the book reviews
and the value for value.
And I've also split it up
into the boostingand streaming altogether
as of April 1st, 2023,you had about 4.36 million
(09:09):
satoshis coming in.
And from now on I've been
doing thesekind of quarterly reports.
And so skippingquarter to 2023,
we just
passed quarter three,
which is as asof the end of September.
And once again,
if you look on your screenthere,
you can see I've split itup into July,
August, September
and got a real nichewith the details.
(09:29):
How many sets per
show or
in terms of boostingin terms of streaming,
converting thisinto Australian dollars.
What was the total fromthat quarter?
Three, We had 1.26 millionand so
the first thing that
really stands outhere is streaming
amounts are typicallyabout 10 to 13% of
(09:50):
the total that comes in.
And the boosting the SES
messagesor one time payments
which someone has sent inare about 87 to 90%.
So you can see, okay,
most of the revenue
is coming in viathe boosting.
So why is this and I guess
I yeah, it's
(10:11):
definitely heavilyskewed towards it,
not necessarilywith the messages
and and why is thisand is this necessarily
a good or a bad thing.
The one of the thingsthat got me really into
the programmable moneythe the aspect of people
being able to supportin the podcasting app
which just makes senseif you want to do it,
(10:31):
you shouldn'thave to go out
to different linksand click
on all these things,like it's best
to be able to do itwithin the actual app.
It was all, you know,I could
there's this real appeal
that people could payfor the back catalogue,
as in,I've got all of this,
all of these thingsset up.
What if someoneis going back
and finding the models
(10:52):
for the first time
that going backto the very first episode
and they're listeningall the way through,
Oh my God, they could.
They could actually,you know, be paying me
that whole timeas as they're doing that.
Isn't that awesome?
And thatwas a thought in my mind.
Have I actually seen that?No, no,
that doesn't typicallytended to happen.
(11:12):
And I think perhapsa difference from this
is is something like
I was thinking of thisas as in music royalty.
You just create it
one timeand then you can kind of
get paid foreverperpetually.
Wouldn't that be awesome?
As long as it is popular?
So what?What's the difference?
Is my contentjust not evergreen enough?
(11:33):
Are peoplejust not going back
to the very first episodesand listening in?
Are they just.
Yeah.
Is itjust something that's
that's not valuable enoughto do that?
I actually think it'sa different reason.
I actually think it'sbecause of the mechanisms
for for doing this is is
actually quite different
(11:53):
and that the incentivesfor people boosting
and contributing tothe show is is not
is not necessarilyrelated to past content.
It's moreabout the current stuff.
And so you can ask, okaywhy do people boost.
That's obviously
the main thingthat's that's driving it.
That's driving, I suppose,revenue into the show.
(12:14):
If you want to call itvalue, let's call it that.
And the main reason is
becauseof the feedback loop.
And so whatyou see on your screen
now here is justa collection of our four
biggest supportersand then also a list
of every supporter
that who
who has contributedto the show of
about a thousand setsor more.
Those couple of peopleright on the on
(12:35):
the boundary point,who I included in.
And so what can you seefrom this?
Well,
the collective supportis what I've labelled
all of the streamingpayments coming in.
And so this is actually
our third
biggest supporter in termsof of raw numbers.
And we have two people,Peter
the Bull, the Booster,
the Slav, and Dave Jones,who's
(12:57):
been very supportive
of my particular showfrom podcasting to Pono,
and then Chris Fishercoming in in the fourth
positionfrom Jupiter Broadcasting.
They have been,
you know, some of ourbiggest supporters.
And if you just tallied up
the numbers, if you justlook at Dave and Peter
together, they are about
(13:18):
about half of the amountwe've totally
we've received in total.
I'll talk aboutthe total numbers in the
in the next chapter, but
there are roughly 3million sets
is about half of whatwe've received coming in.
And this is where it'sgoing.
Like, okay, well
(13:39):
how should I look
at this in terms of like,is this actually one?
One of the things
I have saidabout the value for value
model is it kind ofdecentralised?
You know,you're not relying on one
particularadvertising company
that could just pullthe rug away at any moment
or they go bankrupt
or this is one of the
aspects about the valuefor value model, which is
is is a nice thing.
(14:01):
But then I look at thisand I go, Oh,
well I've got two peoplewho have contributed
half of everythingthat we've received.
Isn't that super risky?
And it is, it is kind of.
But when I think about
this as well,I go, you know,
there is now 82 differentpeople
who have contributedvarying amounts
of of of supportthrough to the show.
(14:24):
There was a periodwhere Peter was
just boostingand tons and tons and tons
as of the
like the last
six months yearhe dropped off
and you knowwhat actually happened?
Otherpeople started to step up.
We had other people
new time is coming inboosting in.
I actually saw
a new a new namejust boosting
into the models literallyabout 10 minutes to go.
(14:47):
And the the thingthat works with a value
for value is it kind ofjust works out in the end.
Adam talks about thisa lot,
which is it'skind of frustrating if you
if you don't have any data
or numbers to back this up
because it's like,what do you mean?
It just works outin the end?
But, butI think the thing is
(15:08):
it works in the sense that
if you continue to providegood value,
it it willpeople will step up,
People will notice this,they will contribute.
And if you ask for it,
and if you make it knownand apparent
that they needto contribute, they will.
And I have the numbersto back this up and on.
(15:28):
I'll talk about thatin a second.
So yeah, is it risky? Yes.
But I feel like thisunequal distribution
is always going to occur
no matter whatyou're doing.
I'm I'm almost certain
it's the samefor no agenda there.
Top 510 producersis what they call them.
They would be dwarfingthe amount
(15:49):
of other contributionsthat they have received.
But if it all goes up,then it all goes up.
You know,
the top boosters,
the top people supportingwill support more.
And then those oneswho at the moment
are supporting for us,
you know, a thousand sets,which is what, 40
Australian cents,something like that,
that thatcan actually change
(16:11):
to, you know, 10,000and then it'll be $4.
It's like,oh, okay, awesome.
That's, that's cool.
That's something new,something interesting.
So let's jump
onto the next sectionhere, which was
okay,It's been about to 2.25,
two years and a quarter
since I found outabout all of this.
So first of all,
in termsof like total numbers
(16:32):
and things, the four yearsthat I've been doing
podcastingwith the models,
it's only been 2.25 yearssince we've actually
allowed anyoneto to send stuff in to us
because we werejust doing it
somewhat as a hobbyat the start
with getting more serious
during the COVID timesand realising,
yeah, like
this is something thatat least me personally,
(16:52):
that I want to dofull time.
And one
I think in the very future
would, wouldperhaps want to as well.
And so it's only been 2.25years.
So since aroundJuly of 2021, since we've
allowedpeople to contribute.
And as I mentioned,that was
mostly just through thethe actual method of
(17:14):
and the micropaymentswithin the apps.
And it's only the PayPalthat we've
we'vestarted doing recently.
And you can tell itbasically captured me
straight awaythis, this micropayment
aspect of using Bitcoin
to be able to do itwithin the apps because
how we received our firstbooster Graham payment
(17:36):
coming in it was yeah.
Aroundthe end of July of 2021
and as I mentioned
I started the valuefor value
show in August of 2021.
So it was pretty muchinstantly
where I was like,Holy shit,
I think this is
a game changer
and I need to knowmore about this
and create a podcastto help learn for myself
and then to to teach other
peoplewhat this is all about.
(17:58):
So here's
a graph down the bottomyou can see
starting from quarterthree of 2021,
and then it goesfor each quarter.
So we've got one,two, three, four, five,
six, seven, eight,nine data points there.
And this is a cumulativegraph
of of how much with and
and so you can see
at the very startand we received,
(18:18):
you know, about 200,000sets.
Okay.
That was
that was kind of coolfor all
four of those paymentscoming in
and then but but you knowrelatively nothing
and then Q4, it'sgetting to about 500,000.
So about the same thing to
Q1 of 2020 to 700000.
And you can just seethe graph is just steadily
(18:38):
becoming higher and higher
and and more amounts. And
so what
I'm kindof hoping to see that
this will eventuallybecome exponential.
And so as of the end of
September of 2023,so as of four days ago,
we had received6,362,678 SATs and total.
(19:03):
And this is across
all of the various showsbecause I collate them,
I add them all uptogether.
And so whatwe can see with that is,
okay, how much is that6.3, 6 million sets.
That's about theequivalent of 2,800 AUD.
So for what, two and 2.25years worth of of effort,
(19:26):
two and a half.
Let's just saythree grand,
you know, that's certainlynot enough to live off.
No way.
I even as frugal as I am,
that's that'snot enough to live off.
But is this the fault ofvalue for value, though?
Or what's going on here?
Where would I be
if we had actually usedads instead?
Because it's importantto remember
the showsthat I have the models,
the value
for value of the bookreviews
(19:47):
as of this very moment,
you would notdescribe them as big shows
unless you werea new podcaster coming in
and being like, Oh my God,how do you get more than
threeor four downloads per day?
Which I have been welland truly been there.
I'm not I'm not receivinglike tons and tons
and tons of views onor listens to 20 of these.
(20:09):
And so I can back this upbecause I have data
for all of these things.
So let's starta comparison.
We've got a set number2.25 years.
How how would I havecompared
if I had been usingadvertising in this time
time period?
And unfortunately,I won't be able to go
(20:29):
that far back because the
this comparisonis going to be tricky.
Whenever you startdoing hypotheticals,
you have to try and figureout, okay, like what
is the
the actual number?
First of all,what are the actual
numbers themselves?
Second of all, how can youcompare these numbers?
Are they actually going toto be working properly?
(20:52):
And and what is,I suppose, the
hidden assumptionsthat you're you're
maybe not realisingare in the back there.
And so
with these, with these I'mgoing to basically
give the caveat here.
I've moved the podcastaround multiple times
and so
numbers of downloadsand things like
(21:13):
that have changeddramatically.
I've lost numbersfrom that.
So that's the kind of data
I haven'tbeen able to collect
and it also didn't matterbecause that data was
just, yeah, whatever isjust people listening in.
It's kind of morelike a popularity thing.
It doesn't matterto me as much. And so,
well, with the comparison,
let's just first start offwith what's numbers?
(21:36):
What is the isthe numbers of downloads
that we're gettingare they actually real?
And so
I don't have all of this,as I mentioned,
but I can do a little bit
of independentverification
for at least
the memorial showbecause I have that as
and as to sourcesto be able to get it from.
(21:56):
One is from the actual bus
throughout the hostthat I use
and one is fromthis tag called o.P three,
which is
stands for the OpenPodcasting Prefix project,
I believe, and this is
maintained by JohnSpurlock, created by him
now then what?
What would have been theyou know,
(22:20):
let's let's comparethose two numbers the
the podcasting numbersand the
the numbers of downloadsvia bus sprout,
which have an incentiveto kind of show
higher onesbecause, you know,
then my podcast host,they want to show me
doing well versus John'swhich is no it's it's
just a thingyou put in your feed a tag
and he allows him to
(22:42):
kind of collect this dataand he does
whatever magic stuff
that he doesin the background,
I don't know fully,but he's able to get
a whole bunch of numbers
of how how often your showhas been downloaded.
So if yousee the two graphs here,
they kind of looka little bit different
in terms of the amountsof downloads
on individual days
(23:02):
because they should thinkthey would
match up roughly.
But what we see in totalis that
the number of downloadsis about the same 7230
different here, 30different now, doesn't it?
Doesn't really matter.
So we can definitely see.
All right,
these numbers seem legit.
(23:23):
Let's let's have a look at
how much
I would have earned
through ads through thisthis time period.
And so I'm just taking a
the I suppose the timeperiod I'm going to use
is that quarter
three of 2023,which I was talking about
and had real goodnumbers from.
I'm just that's
the only thingthat I can really look at
(23:44):
and do a comparison.
So if I take thatfor the Miyamoto show,
we had about 20,769downloads
for for that month,according to Sprout.
If I look at thetotal numbers that I had
of people boosting inand the actual amount
of income,it was about 575,000 sets,
(24:06):
which was equivalentto about $250 Australian.
So okay, that's all right.
That's acrossthree months. Once again,
it's not liveableoff, but it's it's
it's got some numbers.
It's certainly something
now if I wanted to
monetiseusing the bus platform,
(24:27):
which they dohave in there,
this is what itliterally says on them.
You'll get paidfor the monetised
downloadsyou serve all ads, pay
the same 1.5 cents USDper download.
You can apply yourearnings to future bus
invoices, blahblah, blah blah blah blah.
So we have a numberthat 1.4 $0.04 us
deeper downloadthis is about right.
(24:48):
So that is equal toabout a $14
CPM cost per mill,which is the typical
metric that they use.
I've heard numbers, I'veI did a bit of research.
Typically it's around
that 20 range,that $20 range.
Some will be higher,some will be lower.
(25:09):
Depends on
if you're doing highest
reads, depends onif you're
doing just a straight up,
you know,dynamic ad insertion.
All of this makesabout rough sense to me.
So we'll just usethe number that they have,
which I know I could getusing using bus prep.
So let's do some quickad math with 20,769
(25:31):
downloads, multiply
that by the 1.4cents per per download
and you get to about
291 USD,which would be 455 AUD.
So if we're just doing astraight up comparison of
of that,
a theoretical comparison,you would say,
okay, well value for valueis not as great.
(25:51):
That's about half as great
than fourfor the mere mortal show.
I think there's a lot of
assumptions in therebecause they don't.
You're not going to get awith the ad model.
You're not going to geta consistent ad placed
on each download.
So that numberwill be slightly less.
And I think there'sa couple of things.
(26:13):
But look, let'sjust say for the moment
advertising wins, right?
And why are you doingthe value for value show?
Well, this is just oneset of metrics.
And let's jumponto the other main show,
which I've been earningrevenue from,
which is the valuefor value show.
And so similar deal here,we'll look at these stats
(26:33):
from July,
August and Septemberthat just passed of 2023.
So this show is
considerably smallerthan the models.
We had about 3000listens, 3008 to be exact,
listens across this timeperiod once again,
because this is onblueberry,
a different hostingplatform.
I don't knowif they have ads
(26:55):
supportlike like Buzz Sprout did.
I didn't I didn't see itin my quick research.
Let's justuse the same number
of that 1.4 centsper download.
This is equal
to about 42 USD,which is about 66 AUD.
Now, how did I do withthe boost in streaming?
Well, significantly more.
I got 665,000
(27:18):
from the sets coming in,
which is about 283284 AUD.
So okay, well, what'sgoing on there this time?
Value for valueis is four times as much.
How do you work this out?
What's the what'swhat's changed?
You know,
and I think this is where
(27:39):
I'll just end off mymy case study
in my comparison hereby just saying
my little summary.
I guess.
So which method is better?
Which if you're going togo, if you had to choose
between one
like only value for valueand only adds,
my general takeawaywould be
if you've got a smallershow,
(28:00):
I probably would sayvalue for values is
going to work best.
I would almost certainly
say value for valueis going to work best.
Advertisersare not interested
in doing advertisementson small shows.
It's too hard to monitor.
It's too hard to make sure
that the ads
are being servedcorrectly,
and the amount of peoplejust listening
just doesn't makesense for them to do that.
(28:23):
If youhave a small niche show
related to a topicthat you particularly love
and there is onlyan addressable market of,
you know,
a thousand peoplein the world
who are interestedin this topic
and which is kind of what
you can dowith podcasting.
I saw a show recentlywhich was highlighted
(28:43):
for its uniqueness,
which was the
amount of water
being wastedin food production,
and it was
someone going on
a deep diveto figure out how much
water is being wasted.
You know,
that's an incredibly,incredibly niche podcast.
Are they going to be ableto get millions
of downloads
for for people listeninginto that unlikely,
(29:04):
but there would besome people
who would be reallyinterested in that show
and I thinkwould be willing
to contributeto that show.
If you created one
which was fascinatingenough
for people toto listen to.
So typically
what I would say isI think that small shows
value for value
easily wins and that thatis the correct way to go.
(29:28):
If you're gettingto a medium
sized showlike the Me and Models,
you're probably
goingto have a bit of a mix.
You know, we once again,we've chosen a very niche
path of of saying like,you know,
come support usthrough the
these new apps, comesupport us using Bitcoin.
(29:49):
It's it'shard. It's difficult.
And so with a broad showlike that,
like we have there,which is addressed
more to aa broader audience
because of the waywe've done it, we've we've
certainly made it harder.
If we had used PayPalfrom the very start,
I'm almost certainthat that number
would have been closerto the ad section
(30:12):
to the to the ad numbers.
So, you know, insteadof having only received
246 four for that quarterthat we just passed
would be closer to the 455that theoretically
we couldhave got through ads.
So I think the for kind oflike a medium show like
us, which is getting,
you know, roughly
(30:32):
100 to 300 downloadsper episode or something
like that, I would say,
you know,either's kind of good.
Just take your pickwhich one you want to do
when you're getting up
to the really,really large shows.
This is whereI'm once again,
you know,
I'm kind of having to gobased on feel now,
even though John,John C Dvorak and Adam
(30:55):
Currie can do it,
they've got a super, superlarge show.
They're getting close
to a million downloadsper episode.
I would say they wouldprobably make more
if they just went throughthe advertising group
because you can just
if with a show like that,it's, it's just bigger.
It's just there's,there's a tension,
there's attractioncoming in.
(31:15):
I feel like you could kindof negotiate that to it
to a higher levelthan what
they're receiving now
the pay you knowwhat would be the
the downside tothat is well,
they would haveresponsibilities
in terms of advertisersthat would
have to make sure
that they're not sayingcertain things
that would perhaps goagainst the advertisers.
(31:35):
This is where I think
you encountera lot of the problems,
which I see
with with
advertising model is,you know, self-censorship,
relying on that oneor two big advertisers
to support your show of
just trading,I guess, security
of having you know,you almost certainly know
(31:56):
how much you're goingto get per month
using advertising
because they havethese guarantees
like you're guaranteed
to get this at the least,this much
more perhaps if certainepisodes do better.
And then that's where it'slike I think
I think that probably
you'll earn more,
but you're goingto have to decide
(32:16):
on the trade offsfor that.
Do you feel comfortable
putting adsin front of your show?
Are you willing to dolots of meetings
with advertisers
to make sure that
they're happy withhow the show is performing
and all of thesesorts of things?
So yeah, that's that'sjust one section there.
I also seeone in the chat here
saying Devil's advocate,if for those 2.25 years
we had instead
(32:37):
focussed on advertisingand not boosting,
so then targetingour show to popularity,
I guess inthe short term it's likely
we could have gottenmore money.
But at what cost inthe long run is my answer.
So in that case, yes,you're
if you are creating a show
and and you're making itand you want to create
(32:58):
the most moneyfrom advertising,
it does need to be nicheto a certain audience
because certain audiencesare more likely to spend.
I think the
the mostdesirable is about
I think it's youngmen from 20 to 35 is the
biggest spender category.
And then probably afterthat would be
young womenand then after that
(33:18):
it would be like oldergenerations.
I think that is the
and yeah, there's
a whole lot of thingsthat go into this. So.
Oh, I won't,I won't dive down
that rabbit hole becausethat that's a deep one.
I could, I could talkabout that for a while.
So we'll leave itat that for the moment
and instead let'sgo on to some, to Graham's
(33:42):
Welcome to theValue for Value Booster
Graham Lounge.
I've got a coupleof things coming in here
becauseI've got a live one in.
I got to call them out.Thank you very much.
Adam Currygot the bat signal
and he sent 10,000SATs sent using pod verse.
Thank you very much, Adam.
So yeah, maybehe can comment in and
(34:05):
and tell meif he thinks if,
if he had gonethrough advertising and
assuming he'd
gotten the same amountof people listening to a
no agenda,which he almost certainly
wouldn't havebecause the advertiser
would have started to,it would have drove away
other people and drawnin certain others.
But let's just assumehe got the same amount.
(34:26):
I would love to know.
I would love toknow if if he thinks that
he would have earnedmore just in straight
up numbersthrough advertising.
Obviouslythe value for value model
relieson so much more and relies
this so much more valuewhich is not captured
monetarilyin this easy form,
but which actually isvaluable.
(34:47):
People creating a website.
People like this.
Peter
the Slav
who sent me in thisthis document
which I still usefor my chapters,
and I would have hadto pay someone to
like create some coding
or do some thingsto be able
to just copyand paste stuff,
you know, is it saving?
It's it's money,
(35:08):
but it's an A, it'sa different form.
And so it's very hardto capture.
But yes,thank you very much, Adam.
So, yes,
as a reminder of everyone,I am live as of 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard
Time on a Wednesday,which is UTC midnight.
Wherever you arein the world
(35:28):
on that Tuesdayand Wednesday.
So just plus or minus your
your time zonefrom the universal
coordinated time, youI would say UTC
and yeah yeahthat would be the way to
to join in lifeand send in a boost
live just like Mr.
Adam Currythe father has done there.
Let's jump back into theprevious booster Grahams.
(35:50):
We've got Sam Sethimaking a whole bunch of
paymentssent through pod fans.
Once again, check outthe progressive Web app
because you willget at the live bat signal
if you are if you have
if you're
a fan of the mere mortalsor of the sorry,
if you're a fanof the values of our show,
you will definitely
get that out and get thatthat app is it's going to
(36:13):
do some cool things.
So this is alreadyvery slick
to play around with itthe other day and yeah,
looking very, very nice.
We also have here Gene,being from the last show
from the volunteertechnologists
which I talked aboutand highlighted
his chat with Mitchis now out.
Please check it out.
It's it'svery fascinating.
It says great showand thanks
(36:33):
for the shout out 2222sent using custom medic.
Thank you very much Genemy man Much appreciated
We've got here Sir Spencerwho is of the
the wolf of
I think he calls himselfthe Wolf of Kansas City.
Yeah that's it.
Who from ball after bowl.
(36:54):
He says appreciate itthe self hosting Shout it.
Anyone can do itif they decide
they want to 6969Neon sent using pod verse.
He lovesthe meme numbers. He does
and at using pod verse.
Of course, the
the open source app,which I was talking about.
And then this is onewhere it's it's I,
(37:17):
I struggle with thisand so I probably say
something's wrong
sometimes and so he's,
it's got another boostsent in here
once again 6969using pod verse Thank you.
And he says,I think many people
who are technicallyinclined
still identify itas non-technical
just becausethey're more advanced,
just because there are
more advanced areasor aspects of tech
(37:38):
we use thatwe don't fully understand.
Hearing you identifyas non-technical
is like hearing someonewho changes their own oil
sayingthey're not a big car guy
because they can'trebuild an engine.
And then he's got the
emojiwith the beta sweat on it.
You've been
you've been out hererunning with scissors too,
and every day isa learning experience.
You're a technical guy,
whether you believe itor not.
Karen So thank you.
(38:01):
Thank you very much.
I think that'sa compliment.
Thankyou. Thank you. Spencer.
My problem, I
suppose, ismy my way of communicating
my dislikeof of of problem solving
when it comesto technology,
I find itincredibly frustrating.
I find it
almost anxiety producingat times, to be honest,
(38:21):
because it feels veryhidden behind the scenes.
Like what?
Why is this thingthat was working
has suddenly stopped?
For example,
the USB port on my laptop
has suddenly stoppedworking.
I try to do a bit of a fixin case it was a drive,
a thing that didn't work.
But there's still options
that it could beor it could be a
an actual hardwaredefault.
(38:42):
Some dusters got in.
I don't know.
What do I do with that?
I don't like thatexperience.
That pisses me offto no end.
So when I saynon-technical, I what
I mean is
I don't havethat intuitive talent
nor the desireto fully dive down
into these things.
But yes, in a in a wayI am because I obviously
(39:05):
have gotten very deepinto the booster cramming,
all of thesesorts of things
whichother people would say are
no, andthat's super technical.
I could never be ableto do that.
So I yeah,I do appreciate that.
I suppose it's
the paradox,the paradox of life that
even thoughI don't feel like I am,
perhapsI perhaps I actually am.
(39:25):
But in any case,
he had actually justa great chat
with Steven Bell from CureCosta of the Music
Side Project of the Splitkit of Ellen Beats Fame.
So the guy whoI was talking about
really on the Value forValue
Music episodebecause he does so much,
(39:46):
he had a great chatwith him
and they talked a lotabout coding
and this kind of aspectof of
trying to do things foryourself, self hosting.
And yeah,I would recommend
checking that out.
Oh, I'll puta link in this episode.
And then he says,
Have you heard No agenda,
no brand willadvertise with us
(40:06):
and we would have beenDemonetised years ago.
10,000That sent using podcast.
I have, I have Adam.
I've tunedinto a few episodes.
Yeah it's this isI guess the tricky thing,
right with the,with the ability
to to try and do thesetheoretical numbers.
You know I came upwith some numbers
just before of 245versus 455.
(40:31):
That 455
is it's a it's a vapour,it's a wisp of air.
It's it'snot a real tangible thing.
It's a it's a guesstimate.
And I it could very,very wildly I've heard
advertising ratesbeing double that 1.4%.
So does that mean that
that numbershould be doubled?
And I've also heard itbe significantly less
(40:53):
and I'm assuming it'sbeing on this end as you
as so many assumptionsthat come into this.
This is where I wouldprobably
maybe recommendfor someone who is.
All right,the starting of the
podcastfor the first time.
And they they'rereally enjoying it.
Perhaps they're getting
some listeners coming inand they're like,
okay, well,
I would love toat least recoup
some of the costsof hosting
(41:14):
and things like this.What should I do?
I would definitelyrecommend, you know,
attempting value for valueat the very least.
And I'm going to talk
about my tips sectionabout how you do that.
And this is where,you know, where
we're on onto the tipssection.
So you showswill do better
if you
adopt certain tactics andif you do certain things.
(41:37):
Now, you heard mementioning before,
and if you lookedat the graphs, you'll see
the current WestEnd is in Spanglish.
You said you hadfour shows, but you only
you only put in boostingamounts for three of them.
Well, if you look at thedates of things.
So the first
the first boostto Graham we received
received from Chadf was on the Yeah.
(42:00):
That end of Julyperiod of 2021,
I stopped the crazinessin Spanglish right around
that same period.
It was July Augustof that of that same year.
So what had been happening
was obviouslyI was doing a show
not as Innocent Spanglish,the book reviews,
but I never mentionedthe boost
branding
or any of the valuefor value stuff
because I didn'teven know about it.
I had never heard of itbefore.
(42:22):
So even though
I subsequently laterput in the value block
and had the abilityfor people to boost
and I never talkedabout it,
so I never gota single cent,
I never got a singleSatoshi from from anyone
doing that. So
what youwill notice is that
for value, for valueto really work,
you have to adopt certaintactics
(42:44):
and certain things
will will work betterand incentivise people
to come in.
Much likeAdam was saying here,
you know his show,No Agenda.
It got very popular
because they haveno agenda,
they don't have
advertising,they don't have people
telling them what they can
and can't say
whether it be in a strongform or a very soft form.
(43:05):
They don't have that.
And so the tacticsthat they have come up
with or tactics perhapseven is a strong word, the
the natural progressionof their show turned into
thingsthat would enable people
to to
boost it up, to boostand to to send money
to send valueto their show.
And so what are the someof these things? Well,
(43:28):
look, the book reviews,I didn't even bother
to do any graphsor things related to that.
Why It's becauseI've received
so little from that.
And then you can go,okay, well,
why have you receivedso little from that card?
Well,this is how I have done
the bookreviews in the past.
I would pre-record itso it would usually be
recordeda week or two in advance
(43:51):
because it required meactually reading the book
and keeping on top ofthis is rather hard.
So I would justpost it out.
I would have the callto action at the end.
Hey, please
boost into the showif you want to.
Like if you if yougot value from this.
But I never had any realgood feedback loop.
And soI started doing this
live one thatI would do once a month
(44:13):
that the recap
where I could address
all the booster Grahams
that had receivedin that past month.
Now is this great for
incentivefor people to boost in?
Well, not reallybecause they'll boost in.
And then it'sonly a month later
that I'm reallytalking about it.
So what I would say
here is some of the tipsfor for someone
who is creating valuefor value.
(44:34):
So, number one,first you have to ask,
make sure you askand make sure that you
let people know thatit's a value for value
so they can send inhowever much they want to.
And we're just focusingon the treasure aspect
here,the money aspect of it.
Make sure that you ask
and make surethat people know
how to do itand that they can send in
(44:56):
whatever amount they wantthat they value.
That is a critical one.
You need to make thethe feedback loop
as tight as possible.
And so when they,
you know, boost in orwhen they send in a PayPal
or wheneverthey do something,
they're sending youin cash or whatever
the acknowledgementshould come
in the next episodeif possible.
(45:16):
And so
this is where havinga really tight feedback
loop is is best.
So you still canprerecord, but
it's better to pre-record,
you know, one day
in advanceinstead of two weeks
like I was doingfor the book reviews.
Another one live is areally weird motivator.
We just seen AdamCurry here
boost in a whole bunch,and I can see him also
(45:37):
streaming and paymentsat the same time,
which is really,really cool.
If you look at thingslike twitch streamers
or even those NPClive streamers
that you seen on Tik Tok,
which I find sofascinating,
has such a coolsubject subgenre.
And so this is whereit will be a girl
with a camerain front of her and
people will send in a
(45:58):
it's like an emoji.
It's like a reaction,
which actually she canexchange for money.
And so if they sendan ice cream
on, she goes, ice cream.
So good, yum, yum, yum.
And obviously this is,
you know,what is the value
that people are gettingfrom that?
Well, it'sbecause it's live.
They do some action
and someone on the otherside of the world
(46:20):
responds to that anddoes something with me.
It was with Adamjust right now.
It was metalking about his show.
It was me
talking about somethingthat he messaged me
super, super cool.
And it's the same it's
the same aspectthat's going on
with these live streamers,these twitch's
twitch people and stuff.
There's just something
(46:40):
about the live experience
whichwhich people really enjoy.
And so then we go liveis is another one,
I think creating a bettershow, making it more easy
to for people, easierfor people to to boost in,
to contribute to the show.
So having the funding tag
within your actual shownodes doing, having
(47:01):
the value blocks is set upso that
if someone is listeningvia a podcasting app,
they can do it directlywithin the app.
All of these thingscreating
better show with chapter
art and imagesand things like this.
I think all of that
is very useful,essential as well.
And then the final one,consistency is critical
(47:22):
as passive income.
I'm I'm
coming to the conclusionthat passive income is a
largely a myth
just because you createa show
which hasevergreen content,
I don't think thatmeans that you're going to
get peoplegoing back and listening,
much like music royalties,where if you create
one really big show,
one really big hit,
(47:42):
you can live off thatfor the rest of your life.
I'm not sure the samewill work in podcasting.
I don't think thatthe intangible qualities
that music have of people
just listeningto something like
5100 times in a row,which I have done
with certain songs,
I don't think the sameis going to happen
(48:03):
with podcastingand a podcast episode,
no matter how viralit goes,
no matter how interestingthat one episode is,
I don't I don't think thatthat passive income,
you're going
to get the same as perhapsyou could with a a hit
a music hit, a songwhich just really,
you know,
somethinglike Stairway to Heaven,
(48:24):
which is just going to
it's it's stuckaround for so long. So
in thiscase, the consistency is
you have to keep doing it.
You have to keepputting out a show,
as Adam
Curry has done for six
years, with no agenda,as I have basically been
doing with my threeor four shows for,
well, three showsnow that a person is
(48:44):
is no longer activefor a long time.
And so yeah, that'sthat's another one. The
The passive income I thinkis is largely a myth
the app and servicehighlight for for today.
Let's jump onto that let'swrap this up
if you haven't used
OPI three,
I would
definitely recommendchecking it out
if you want to see
(49:05):
the statisticsand real granular things.
So if you once again,if you check
out yourchapter right now,
there'sall sorts of things
that he's got going onthere.
He's got thewhat was this called?
It was likethe episodes over time.
So you can really see
how the episodesare performing.
Typically you'll see itlike really shoot up
straight awayand then have this long,
(49:26):
long tail of peoplegradually listening in.
He's got such detailedstatistics there of,
you know,
which appsare people using,
where are they listeningfrom in the world?
Which certain countriesare once again
talkingabout non-technical?
I don't know how he gets
all of this stuff,but he does. The
the thing withall of this is you,
(49:48):
it's a o.p three dot
dev is way you should goto to check out more.
And it providesall sort of free data
because it's open.
So once again,you have to be comfortable
with someone comingand looking at that.
And because anyone canlook at it,
this data is outin the open.
So once again
open source check outthe last episode.
(50:10):
So what I would say,ask your host to put in
the necessary permissioninto your RSS feed.
It's actually
relatively simple,and I think most hosts
would bewilling to do that
and it can yet just getinto real granular info.
So I would recommendchecking that out.
I've just got a commenthere from one Disagree.
(50:30):
Passiveincome from podcasts works
very well for large
podcasters out therewith evergreen content.
Tim Ferriss has talkedabout this in the past
with some of his olderpodcasts.
Okay, I didn't know that.
Perhaps that's theexception, not the rule.
Also, the repostingof old content,
say five years laterwith no edit.
Does that count aspassive income?
Yeah, I get
(50:51):
kind of it's it's not.
Yeah,it's not an active effort
but certainlyit's older stuff
which I guess you could.
Yeah. YeahI'll, I'll, I'll allow it.
I'll allow it one.
So yeah I supposethat's a,
that's an idea as wellthere.
If you, if you justrepost old stuff
(51:12):
that kind of can play intothat consistency aspect.
But yeah. Look.
Well just from our numbersI can say
people have not beenboosting older episodes.
It's, it's, it's episodeswhich are the current
the recent ones.
Yeah.
Well we'll have to see.
We'll have to
grow our show biggerand then be allowed
(51:33):
to do that.
Let's,let's wrap it up here.
Value for value.
Who am I going to give 15%to this episode?
I'm going to give itto John Spurlock for
for creatingthe open three
dot dev.
He does a lot of
I have used some of his
graphs before such in thethe podcasting
2.0 ecosystem that episodeis it growing.
(51:55):
I used a coupleof his graphs
and now obviouslyI put in run
four for that episode.
So this is kind of
a little goodfor that as well.
And yeah,
he, it's in podcasting2.0 value for value.
It only workswhen tons of people
are contributingwhen we all get together.
I know thisepisode has been
very much focussedon the money aspect
(52:16):
which people certainlyare interested in, but
the whole show,
this whole showis very much about other
the other aspects of that,the connection
with your audience,
it's about
the different ways thatpeople can contribute.
It's about,
it's, it's about totallychanging your mindset
away from extractivevalue of people
(52:40):
need to get thisit's a zero sum game to a
a non-zero-sum game.
We cannot the pie can grow
and we can all be happierand better.
So final thoughts fromthis Just for me.
ObviouslyI'm not at this stage yet
where it isa full time income.
I'm going to workas hard as I can to make
that happen. And
(53:01):
if if after like ten years
I haven't made it,
I'll have to just admit,like, you know what?
I just wasn't ableto create enough value for
for people for this tobecome a full time thing.
And podcasting will
would thereforeremain a hobby for me.
But I'm going to fuckingtry really hard.
And what I've found from
(53:22):
just my own
personal life is
typically when I tendto stick with things
and I stick with themfor years and years,
I get better at it.
And, and
it does tend to justall work out in the end.
So thank you very much,everyone, for
for joining in time,Talent and treasure.
I would saysharing this episode
with the digital creator,
well, particularlywith a smaller podcaster,
(53:44):
I think would be immenselyvaluable for them.
Just so they can getsome rough numbers,
they can comparethat to where they're at.
All ofthis is rough, of course.
And but and knowit's niche.
It depends on your show
and all of thatsort of thing.
But I thinkjust having some numbers
sometimescan can help people out.
And then obviously comingand joining in live
(54:05):
like Juan and Adam, it issuper, super fun talent.
Is there anything I can do
to make this show better?
One was just say ofthe audio quality is
crisp, clear,
which is great because Ihave been working on that,
have been also workingon fixing up my studio,
getting a little bitmore soundproofing.
No, still soundproofing.
What's it called?
(54:27):
There's a wordfor making it
not completely soundproof,but for just reducing
reverb and echo andall that sort of stuff.
Resources thatare similar to the overlap
of these bookrecommendations.
Anything that I've saidthat spark some ideas
topic suggestions
you would like meto cover,
please send thosein via Instagram.
(54:47):
I would really love that.
Or you can reach out via
any of the social links
that are downbelow as well.
And then finally,the treasure.
Look, of courseI have to talk about the
podcasting appsand the booster grams.
That'sthat's the main thing
that I've beentalking about.
So new podcastapp stock com
or if you go to Miyamoto's
(55:07):
podcast dotcom slash support
I've got a littleexplanation there of
of how you can usea new podcasting app
to to helpsupport into the show.
If you don'twant to do that
if you don't wanta new podcasting app
if you go to the podcastindex website
and and boost in there
that will
(55:28):
value all of the splitsthat I'm putting up.
And sothat would be awesome.
So check out valuefor the number four value
on the podcastindex website,
or you can do it to me
directly at CARand I get all VidCon.
I'd preferyou wouldn't do that
because I want to
to send the value onto everyone else
who are in my splits.
But if you have to,
(55:50):
you can alsodo it there and
yeah, yeah.
Well we'll leave itat that
a couple of just littlemake goods as well.
I misspoke the other weekthere.
As of nowthere are four episodes
left of this season.
I will then probably takea small short break,
maybe a month, maybe less,
and then get backinto it for season four,
(56:11):
because I am really,really enjoying
doing these Valleyfor Value episodes.
And there was
another clarificationfrom the Ipfs podcasting.
I said thatyour favourite a feed.
I'm sorryI said that your favourite
an episode on that.
I meant that you favouritefeed.
Just a random littleclarification there but
yeah, thank you.Thank you for that.
(56:31):
Thank you for everyoneAdam and Swan
for joining me inlive. Very, very cool.
I much appreciate itand I would
yeah just leave it there
to next week'sepisode is going to be
it's going to bea bit of a different one.
I'm not exactly surehow it's going to work
in termsof the live component
because I'm going to beusing my phone to really
(56:54):
I want to dolike a showcasing
of all of these differentapps and their features.
Bruce Diagramminghow you can do
what it kind oflooks like.
So it's going to bevery much dominant
on the video aspect,which obviously I can't do
here on a live audio show.
So there'll be a
video thatwill come out afterwards.
(57:15):
So that one it will betalking about the
the apps themselvesand some of these
comparisonsand things like that.
So yeah,
a little heads up therefor what
to expect
and yeah, I really hope
you're havinga fantastic day
wherever you arein the world.
Thanks for joining mefor this longer episode
Chao for now, Kyrin out.
Can you earn a living just through value for value?
Welcome everyoneto another episode
of the Valuefor Value podcast.
My name is Kyrin.
Host of the Mere Mortalsand Mere Mortals
Book Reviews podcast,but also,
well, actuallyalso the value for value.
And another one calledReseñas in Spanglish,
(00:21):
but we'll get on tothat soon.
This is the podcastfor those digital creators
who want to havea deeper connection
with their audience
and also be ableto monetise that.
And in this episodein particular,
we're really going to be
focusingon the monetisation.
I've talkeda lot about value before,
but this time
we're going to talk about
many, many,many, many, many
and whether you couldbe able to go full time
(00:43):
using the valuefor value model,
because I'vetalked about it a lot but
haven't really providedmany case examples of
people
who have gonethis full route
and whether this isactually the route
to try and go full timeor if you want to
do something else.
So we'll we'll lookat that in particular.
I've got a lot of graphsand I can tell you
my personal experience
(01:04):
and I've got a lot of data
to back up what I'm goingto be talking about here.
So yeah, let's just jumpinto it and jump into it.
So I think to start offwith probably
the scariest thingabout value for value
apart
from firststarting to ask,
which is reallyuncomfortable saying
because it kind of feels
like you're begging like,Oh, please,
please helpsupport the show.
(01:25):
It's it kind of
feels like,oh my God, Like, oh,
it's it'slike I'm begging for it.
Once you get over thatbarrier,
which I have talked aboutin previous episodes,
I think the next one is
that there'sno guarantees.
And so it's really ayou just have to start
start tryingand and see how it goes.
And there's no
fixed income,there is no contracts,
(01:47):
There is no the there's
nothingwritten and set in stone.
And so in this case it'slike, well, how do you
how do I knowif it even works?
So to start off with,there is one
big case example,and this is no agenda, so
no agenda is Adam Curryand Jonsi, the work show,
which they have donefor 16 years now.
(02:09):
They started off
a long time ago
and they have proventhat it works.
Absolutely.
They they dosolely value for value.
No ads, only supportedby the people listeners.
They call themproducers at home. And
they don't have paywalls,
don'thave anything like that.
And they've been doing itfor a long time
and have been ableto support themselves.
(02:30):
And if yougo into their show
and listento the amount of donations
coming in, it's a fairbit of money.
You can go, okay, yes,definitely.
These these guys are ableto support themselves
and their familiesthrough this,
but they are a huge,huge outlier.
I went on a little
discovery journeywith their show
because I didn't
actually really enjoythe show that much.
It's talking about newsand media, which I'm
(02:50):
I'm kind of iffy about,don't
really care and politics.
And but I was just sayinglike, okay,
how do they stop this off?
What was it like for them
And just from the get go,you know,
you're a huge outlierif you're getting 100,000
listeners per episode
beforeyou've even published 50,
which is whatthey had now.
(03:11):
They were, you know,
both of them were
well known,
successful before theywere doing podcasting,
but they were doing itwhen the podcasting
wasn't a saturated marketor when there was
certainlya lot less people.
All of these reasonsyou can go, okay,
they're a bitof an outlier official.
And so
when I look at othertypes of shows which have
(03:31):
adopted the valuesfor value, a lot of them
come from theNo agenda sort of nation
becausethey heard about it there.
This is wherethe model was created.
And when I look at them,
most of them I would saya kind of hobbyist shows.
I haven't found one,but I'm certain that yes,
they're doing thisfull time as well.
And so I wanted to know,you know,
(03:53):
is this going to workfor someone
who is wanting to go fulltime?
Will this work for someonewho really has a passion
for podcasting?
And so we'll justlive in it
to podcasting here
and not go into the othertypes of digital media.
If someone is a podcasterand wanting to do this,
can they actually goabout doing this?
What are some data sets?
(04:13):
Do we have any casestudies?
Can is there any wayto kind of predict
if this is possible?
And so I have decidedto do that myself.
So I really wantto become a podcast.
That's the onlything I really want to do,
engineering, whichis what I used to do,
not my cup of tea.
I would rather not do thatif possible.
And so I have give youa little bit of backstory
(04:36):
here of my historyof of podcasting.
So I have four main shows.
The first one was meremodels, the kind of like
flagship one.
This is what I started
in September of 2019with my co-host one.
I had another show
called Prisonersin Spanglish,
which I startedin December of 2020,
(04:57):
and this was whereI would do
book reviews,but in Spanish,
and I call it Spanglish
because my Spanish Spanishis my second night,
my second language.
I'm not native in it.
There was a lot of arms
and hoursand certainly times
where I would just sayan English word
because I didn't knowthe Spanish equivalent.
I had another showcalled Me
and Models book reviews,which I suppose
(05:17):
technically startedon February of 2021.
It actually startedmuch earlier
in termsof producing actual
book reviews,but these were in the
Miyamoto's feed.
And so it was all of
February 2021where we broke it up.
And so once again,I do this with Juan,
but I'm I'm the main one.I do most of the reading
(05:40):
and that
goes intoit went into its own feed.
And so technicallythat was
when the mad Models bookreview started.
And then the valuefor value show started.
The very oneyou listening to right now
of August of 2021.
So those are the four
podcaststhat I had in an RSS feed.
I had another
video type one,which was a play
(06:01):
around thing,but nothing serious.
And so
all of thesehave had the access
for ability to for people
to boost into the show,to contribute back
what has happenedacross these four shows.
We're now sitting hereor the 4th of October
20, 23.
So jeez,what a solid two years
(06:21):
from all of them
at least, and
four years from the mainme, a modest one.
What hashappened from that and
how would I have compared
if I had gone through
what you would saymaybe is the standard
route of advertising.
And the good thingfor all of you, dear
listeners at home,is that I am a nerd.
I mentioned I'm
(06:41):
an engineerand so I collect data.
I really,really like data.
And so what have I done?
I've collectedall of the data
from everythingthat we have received
in terms of contributions
from fromthe minimal lights
at arm, as well as whatwe call them.
And the.
Yep, I will
I'll just start listing
off some of this hereso you can get an idea.
(07:03):
And I wanted to break down
I supposeright at the start here,
the difference
betweenstreaming and boosting
and the different paymentmethods.
And so we have focussedvery heavily on the
ability to do paymentsthrough digital money,
through Bitcoin.
So this is the,
the streaming
and the boost
which I've talked about inprevious episodes,
(07:23):
and we have only veryrecently kind of set up
a PayPal linkfor someone to send
Fiat moneyif they wanted to.
And so most of all of this
data is actuallyfrom the boosting
because that's, that'swhat we've focussed on.
That's what we wantedpeople to do.
So value for value onceagain, is not Bitcoin.
It is not sending thingsthrough these apps
(07:46):
and and online like that.
It is people contributingvalue back.
But because we
that iswhat we're focussed
upon, That is what we havereceived.
So we actually don't haveany free fiat payments to
to speak of.
And if we had focussedupon that I'm sure,
sure we would have.
So that's just a caveatthere to start with.
And this is the numbers.
(08:06):
So if you lookon your screen now
and I would encourage youto get a podcasting app
which allows youto do that
because there's going
to be a lot of dataand graphs
appearing in the chapter.
Not so good ones for
this would be somethinglike pod fans like Cura.
Let's start with mobilepod fans on the mobile.
They've got a new
(08:27):
progressive web app,which is really cool.
I would also encourage youto look on Fountain
and on, which iseven podcast addict.
I know he brings it up.
I know pod verse brings itup, breeze brings it up
anyway,where you can get chapters
and you can see things inyour phone
would be valuablefor, for this.
And so
if you look on the top boxhere, I've got
(08:47):
as of April 1st, 2023.
So this is where
I had a big collationof all the data.
And you can see I've split
it up into three differentshows there.
The main models,the book reviews
and the value for value.
And I've also split it up
into the boostingand streaming altogether
as of April 1st, 2023,you had about 4.36 million
(09:09):
satoshis coming in.
And from now on I've been
doing thesekind of quarterly reports.
And so skippingquarter to 2023,
we just
passed quarter three,
which is as asof the end of September.
And once again,
if you look on your screenthere,
you can see I've split itup into July,
August, September
and got a real nichewith the details.
(09:29):
How many sets per
show or
in terms of boostingin terms of streaming,
converting thisinto Australian dollars.
What was the total fromthat quarter?
Three, We had 1.26 millionand so
the first thing that
really stands outhere is streaming
amounts are typicallyabout 10 to 13% of
(09:50):
the total that comes in.
And the boosting the SES
messagesor one time payments
which someone has sent inare about 87 to 90%.
So you can see, okay,
most of the revenue
is coming in viathe boosting.
So why is this and I guess
I yeah, it's
(10:11):
definitely heavilyskewed towards it,
not necessarilywith the messages
and and why is thisand is this necessarily
a good or a bad thing.
The one of the thingsthat got me really into
the programmable moneythe the aspect of people
being able to supportin the podcasting app
which just makes senseif you want to do it,
(10:31):
you shouldn'thave to go out
to different linksand click
on all these things,like it's best
to be able to do itwithin the actual app.
It was all, you know,I could
there's this real appeal
that people could payfor the back catalogue,
as in,I've got all of this,
all of these thingsset up.
What if someoneis going back
and finding the models
(10:52):
for the first time
that going backto the very first episode
and they're listeningall the way through,
Oh my God, they could.
They could actually,you know, be paying me
that whole timeas as they're doing that.
Isn't that awesome?
And thatwas a thought in my mind.
Have I actually seen that?No, no,
that doesn't typicallytended to happen.
(11:12):
And I think perhapsa difference from this
is is something like
I was thinking of thisas as in music royalty.
You just create it
one timeand then you can kind of
get paid foreverperpetually.
Wouldn't that be awesome?
As long as it is popular?
So what?What's the difference?
Is my contentjust not evergreen enough?
(11:33):
Are peoplejust not going back
to the very first episodesand listening in?
Are they just.
Yeah.
Is itjust something that's
that's not valuable enoughto do that?
I actually think it'sa different reason.
I actually think it'sbecause of the mechanisms
for for doing this is is
actually quite different
(11:53):
and that the incentivesfor people boosting
and contributing tothe show is is not
is not necessarilyrelated to past content.
It's moreabout the current stuff.
And so you can ask, okaywhy do people boost.
That's obviously
the main thingthat's that's driving it.
That's driving, I suppose,revenue into the show.
(12:14):
If you want to call itvalue, let's call it that.
And the main reason is
becauseof the feedback loop.
And so whatyou see on your screen
now here is justa collection of our four
biggest supportersand then also a list
of every supporter
that who
who has contributedto the show of
about a thousand setsor more.
Those couple of peopleright on the on
(12:35):
the boundary point,who I included in.
And so what can you seefrom this?
Well,
the collective supportis what I've labelled
all of the streamingpayments coming in.
And so this is actually
our third
biggest supporter in termsof of raw numbers.
And we have two people,Peter
the Bull, the Booster,
the Slav, and Dave Jones,who's
(12:57):
been very supportive
of my particular showfrom podcasting to Pono,
and then Chris Fishercoming in in the fourth
positionfrom Jupiter Broadcasting.
They have been,
you know, some of ourbiggest supporters.
And if you just tallied up
the numbers, if you justlook at Dave and Peter
together, they are about
(13:18):
about half of the amountwe've totally
we've received in total.
I'll talk aboutthe total numbers in the
in the next chapter, but
there are roughly 3million sets
is about half of whatwe've received coming in.
And this is where it'sgoing.
Like, okay, well
(13:39):
how should I look
at this in terms of like,is this actually one?
One of the things
I have saidabout the value for value
model is it kind ofdecentralised?
You know,you're not relying on one
particularadvertising company
that could just pullthe rug away at any moment
or they go bankrupt
or this is one of the
aspects about the valuefor value model, which is
is is a nice thing.
(14:01):
But then I look at thisand I go, Oh,
well I've got two peoplewho have contributed
half of everythingthat we've received.
Isn't that super risky?
And it is, it is kind of.
But when I think about
this as well,I go, you know,
there is now 82 differentpeople
who have contributedvarying amounts
of of of supportthrough to the show.
(14:24):
There was a periodwhere Peter was
just boostingand tons and tons and tons
as of the
like the last
six months yearhe dropped off
and you knowwhat actually happened?
Otherpeople started to step up.
We had other people
new time is coming inboosting in.
I actually saw
a new a new namejust boosting
into the models literallyabout 10 minutes to go.
(14:47):
And the the thingthat works with a value
for value is it kind ofjust works out in the end.
Adam talks about thisa lot,
which is it'skind of frustrating if you
if you don't have any data
or numbers to back this up
because it's like,what do you mean?
It just works outin the end?
But, butI think the thing is
(15:08):
it works in the sense that
if you continue to providegood value,
it it willpeople will step up,
People will notice this,they will contribute.
And if you ask for it,
and if you make it knownand apparent
that they needto contribute, they will.
And I have the numbersto back this up and on.
(15:28):
I'll talk about thatin a second.
So yeah, is it risky? Yes.
But I feel like thisunequal distribution
is always going to occur
no matter whatyou're doing.
I'm I'm almost certain
it's the samefor no agenda there.
Top 510 producersis what they call them.
They would be dwarfingthe amount
(15:49):
of other contributionsthat they have received.
But if it all goes up,then it all goes up.
You know,
the top boosters,
the top people supportingwill support more.
And then those oneswho at the moment
are supporting for us,
you know, a thousand sets,which is what, 40
Australian cents,something like that,
that thatcan actually change
(16:11):
to, you know, 10,000and then it'll be $4.
It's like,oh, okay, awesome.
That's, that's cool.
That's something new,something interesting.
So let's jump
onto the next sectionhere, which was
okay,It's been about to 2.25,
two years and a quarter
since I found outabout all of this.
So first of all,
in termsof like total numbers
(16:32):
and things, the four yearsthat I've been doing
podcastingwith the models,
it's only been 2.25 yearssince we've actually
allowed anyoneto to send stuff in to us
because we werejust doing it
somewhat as a hobbyat the start
with getting more serious
during the COVID timesand realising,
yeah, like
this is something thatat least me personally,
(16:52):
that I want to dofull time.
And one
I think in the very future
would, wouldperhaps want to as well.
And so it's only been 2.25years.
So since aroundJuly of 2021, since we've
allowedpeople to contribute.
And as I mentioned,that was
mostly just through thethe actual method of
(17:14):
and the micropaymentswithin the apps.
And it's only the PayPalthat we've
we'vestarted doing recently.
And you can tell itbasically captured me
straight awaythis, this micropayment
aspect of using Bitcoin
to be able to do itwithin the apps because
how we received our firstbooster Graham payment
(17:36):
coming in it was yeah.
Aroundthe end of July of 2021
and as I mentioned
I started the valuefor value
show in August of 2021.
So it was pretty muchinstantly
where I was like,Holy shit,
I think this is
a game changer
and I need to knowmore about this
and create a podcastto help learn for myself
and then to to teach other
peoplewhat this is all about.
(17:58):
So here's
a graph down the bottomyou can see
starting from quarterthree of 2021,
and then it goesfor each quarter.
So we've got one,two, three, four, five,
six, seven, eight,nine data points there.
And this is a cumulativegraph
of of how much with and
and so you can see
at the very startand we received,
(18:18):
you know, about 200,000sets.
Okay.
That was
that was kind of coolfor all
four of those paymentscoming in
and then but but you knowrelatively nothing
and then Q4, it'sgetting to about 500,000.
So about the same thing to
Q1 of 2020 to 700000.
And you can just seethe graph is just steadily
(18:38):
becoming higher and higher
and and more amounts. And
so what
I'm kindof hoping to see that
this will eventuallybecome exponential.
And so as of the end of
September of 2023,so as of four days ago,
we had received6,362,678 SATs and total.
(19:03):
And this is across
all of the various showsbecause I collate them,
I add them all uptogether.
And so whatwe can see with that is,
okay, how much is that6.3, 6 million sets.
That's about theequivalent of 2,800 AUD.
So for what, two and 2.25years worth of of effort,
(19:26):
two and a half.
Let's just saythree grand,
you know, that's certainlynot enough to live off.
No way.
I even as frugal as I am,
that's that'snot enough to live off.
But is this the fault ofvalue for value, though?
Or what's going on here?
Where would I be
if we had actually usedads instead?
Because it's importantto remember
the showsthat I have the models,
the value
for value of the bookreviews
(19:47):
as of this very moment,
you would notdescribe them as big shows
unless you werea new podcaster coming in
and being like, Oh my God,how do you get more than
threeor four downloads per day?
Which I have been welland truly been there.
I'm not I'm not receivinglike tons and tons
and tons of views onor listens to 20 of these.
(20:09):
And so I can back this upbecause I have data
for all of these things.
So let's starta comparison.
We've got a set number2.25 years.
How how would I havecompared
if I had been usingadvertising in this time
time period?
And unfortunately,I won't be able to go
(20:29):
that far back because the
this comparisonis going to be tricky.
Whenever you startdoing hypotheticals,
you have to try and figureout, okay, like what
is the
the actual number?
First of all,what are the actual
numbers themselves?
Second of all, how can youcompare these numbers?
Are they actually going toto be working properly?
(20:52):
And and what is,I suppose, the
hidden assumptionsthat you're you're
maybe not realisingare in the back there.
And so
with these, with these I'mgoing to basically
give the caveat here.
I've moved the podcastaround multiple times
and so
numbers of downloadsand things like
(21:13):
that have changeddramatically.
I've lost numbersfrom that.
So that's the kind of data
I haven'tbeen able to collect
and it also didn't matterbecause that data was
just, yeah, whatever isjust people listening in.
It's kind of morelike a popularity thing.
It doesn't matterto me as much. And so,
well, with the comparison,
let's just first start offwith what's numbers?
(21:36):
What is the isthe numbers of downloads
that we're gettingare they actually real?
And so
I don't have all of this,as I mentioned,
but I can do a little bit
of independentverification
for at least
the memorial showbecause I have that as
and as to sourcesto be able to get it from.
(21:56):
One is from the actual bus
throughout the hostthat I use
and one is fromthis tag called o.P three,
which is
stands for the OpenPodcasting Prefix project,
I believe, and this is
maintained by JohnSpurlock, created by him
now then what?
What would have been theyou know,
(22:20):
let's let's comparethose two numbers the
the podcasting numbersand the
the numbers of downloadsvia bus sprout,
which have an incentiveto kind of show
higher onesbecause, you know,
then my podcast host,they want to show me
doing well versus John'swhich is no it's it's
just a thingyou put in your feed a tag
and he allows him to
(22:42):
kind of collect this dataand he does
whatever magic stuff
that he doesin the background,
I don't know fully,but he's able to get
a whole bunch of numbers
of how how often your showhas been downloaded.
So if yousee the two graphs here,
they kind of looka little bit different
in terms of the amountsof downloads
on individual days
(23:02):
because they should thinkthey would
match up roughly.
But what we see in totalis that
the number of downloadsis about the same 7230
different here, 30different now, doesn't it?
Doesn't really matter.
So we can definitely see.
All right,
these numbers seem legit.
(23:23):
Let's let's have a look at
how much
I would have earned
through ads through thisthis time period.
And so I'm just taking a
the I suppose the timeperiod I'm going to use
is that quarter
three of 2023,which I was talking about
and had real goodnumbers from.
I'm just that's
the only thingthat I can really look at
(23:44):
and do a comparison.
So if I take thatfor the Miyamoto show,
we had about 20,769downloads
for for that month,according to Sprout.
If I look at thetotal numbers that I had
of people boosting inand the actual amount
of income,it was about 575,000 sets,
(24:06):
which was equivalentto about $250 Australian.
So okay, that's all right.
That's acrossthree months. Once again,
it's not liveableoff, but it's it's
it's got some numbers.
It's certainly something
now if I wanted to
monetiseusing the bus platform,
(24:27):
which they dohave in there,
this is what itliterally says on them.
You'll get paidfor the monetised
downloadsyou serve all ads, pay
the same 1.5 cents USDper download.
You can apply yourearnings to future bus
invoices, blahblah, blah blah blah blah.
So we have a numberthat 1.4 $0.04 us
deeper downloadthis is about right.
(24:48):
So that is equal toabout a $14
CPM cost per mill,which is the typical
metric that they use.
I've heard numbers, I'veI did a bit of research.
Typically it's around
that 20 range,that $20 range.
Some will be higher,some will be lower.
(25:09):
Depends on
if you're doing highest
reads, depends onif you're
doing just a straight up,
you know,dynamic ad insertion.
All of this makesabout rough sense to me.
So we'll just usethe number that they have,
which I know I could getusing using bus prep.
So let's do some quickad math with 20,769
(25:31):
downloads, multiply
that by the 1.4cents per per download
and you get to about
291 USD,which would be 455 AUD.
So if we're just doing astraight up comparison of
of that,
a theoretical comparison,you would say,
okay, well value for valueis not as great.
(25:51):
That's about half as great
than fourfor the mere mortal show.
I think there's a lot of
assumptions in therebecause they don't.
You're not going to get awith the ad model.
You're not going to geta consistent ad placed
on each download.
So that numberwill be slightly less.
And I think there'sa couple of things.
(26:13):
But look, let'sjust say for the moment
advertising wins, right?
And why are you doingthe value for value show?
Well, this is just oneset of metrics.
And let's jumponto the other main show,
which I've been earningrevenue from,
which is the valuefor value show.
And so similar deal here,we'll look at these stats
(26:33):
from July,
August and Septemberthat just passed of 2023.
So this show is
considerably smallerthan the models.
We had about 3000listens, 3008 to be exact,
listens across this timeperiod once again,
because this is onblueberry,
a different hostingplatform.
I don't knowif they have ads
(26:55):
supportlike like Buzz Sprout did.
I didn't I didn't see itin my quick research.
Let's justuse the same number
of that 1.4 centsper download.
This is equal
to about 42 USD,which is about 66 AUD.
Now, how did I do withthe boost in streaming?
Well, significantly more.
I got 665,000
(27:18):
from the sets coming in,
which is about 283284 AUD.
So okay, well, what'sgoing on there this time?
Value for valueis is four times as much.
How do you work this out?
What's the what'swhat's changed?
You know,
and I think this is where
(27:39):
I'll just end off mymy case study
in my comparison hereby just saying
my little summary.
I guess.
So which method is better?
Which if you're going togo, if you had to choose
between one
like only value for valueand only adds,
my general takeawaywould be
if you've got a smallershow,
(28:00):
I probably would sayvalue for values is
going to work best.
I would almost certainly
say value for valueis going to work best.
Advertisersare not interested
in doing advertisementson small shows.
It's too hard to monitor.
It's too hard to make sure
that the ads
are being servedcorrectly,
and the amount of peoplejust listening
just doesn't makesense for them to do that.
(28:23):
If youhave a small niche show
related to a topicthat you particularly love
and there is onlyan addressable market of,
you know,
a thousand peoplein the world
who are interestedin this topic
and which is kind of what
you can dowith podcasting.
I saw a show recentlywhich was highlighted
(28:43):
for its uniqueness,
which was the
amount of water
being wastedin food production,
and it was
someone going on
a deep diveto figure out how much
water is being wasted.
You know,
that's an incredibly,incredibly niche podcast.
Are they going to be ableto get millions
of downloads
for for people listeninginto that unlikely,
(29:04):
but there would besome people
who would be reallyinterested in that show
and I thinkwould be willing
to contributeto that show.
If you created one
which was fascinatingenough
for people toto listen to.
So typically
what I would say isI think that small shows
value for value
easily wins and that thatis the correct way to go.
(29:28):
If you're gettingto a medium
sized showlike the Me and Models,
you're probably
goingto have a bit of a mix.
You know, we once again,we've chosen a very niche
path of of saying like,you know,
come support usthrough the
these new apps, comesupport us using Bitcoin.
(29:49):
It's it'shard. It's difficult.
And so with a broad showlike that,
like we have there,which is addressed
more to aa broader audience
because of the waywe've done it, we've we've
certainly made it harder.
If we had used PayPalfrom the very start,
I'm almost certainthat that number
would have been closerto the ad section
(30:12):
to the to the ad numbers.
So, you know, insteadof having only received
246 four for that quarterthat we just passed
would be closer to the 455that theoretically
we couldhave got through ads.
So I think the for kind oflike a medium show like
us, which is getting,
you know, roughly
(30:32):
100 to 300 downloadsper episode or something
like that, I would say,
you know,either's kind of good.
Just take your pickwhich one you want to do
when you're getting up
to the really,really large shows.
This is whereI'm once again,
you know,
I'm kind of having to gobased on feel now,
even though John,John C Dvorak and Adam
(30:55):
Currie can do it,
they've got a super, superlarge show.
They're getting close
to a million downloadsper episode.
I would say they wouldprobably make more
if they just went throughthe advertising group
because you can just
if with a show like that,it's, it's just bigger.
It's just there's,there's a tension,
there's attractioncoming in.
(31:15):
I feel like you could kindof negotiate that to it
to a higher levelthan what
they're receiving now
the pay you knowwhat would be the
the downside tothat is well,
they would haveresponsibilities
in terms of advertisersthat would
have to make sure
that they're not sayingcertain things
that would perhaps goagainst the advertisers.
(31:35):
This is where I think
you encountera lot of the problems,
which I see
with with
advertising model is,you know, self-censorship,
relying on that oneor two big advertisers
to support your show of
just trading,I guess, security
of having you know,you almost certainly know
(31:56):
how much you're goingto get per month
using advertising
because they havethese guarantees
like you're guaranteed
to get this at the least,this much
more perhaps if certainepisodes do better.
And then that's where it'slike I think
I think that probably
you'll earn more,
but you're goingto have to decide
(32:16):
on the trade offsfor that.
Do you feel comfortable
putting adsin front of your show?
Are you willing to dolots of meetings
with advertisers
to make sure that
they're happy withhow the show is performing
and all of thesesorts of things?
So yeah, that's that'sjust one section there.
I also seeone in the chat here
saying Devil's advocate,if for those 2.25 years
we had instead
(32:37):
focussed on advertisingand not boosting,
so then targetingour show to popularity,
I guess inthe short term it's likely
we could have gottenmore money.
But at what cost inthe long run is my answer.
So in that case, yes,you're
if you are creating a show
and and you're making itand you want to create
(32:58):
the most moneyfrom advertising,
it does need to be nicheto a certain audience
because certain audiencesare more likely to spend.
I think the
the mostdesirable is about
I think it's youngmen from 20 to 35 is the
biggest spender category.
And then probably afterthat would be
young womenand then after that
(33:18):
it would be like oldergenerations.
I think that is the
and yeah, there's
a whole lot of thingsthat go into this. So.
Oh, I won't,I won't dive down
that rabbit hole becausethat that's a deep one.
I could, I could talkabout that for a while.
So we'll leave itat that for the moment
and instead let'sgo on to some, to Graham's
(33:42):
Welcome to theValue for Value Booster
Graham Lounge.
I've got a coupleof things coming in here
becauseI've got a live one in.
I got to call them out.Thank you very much.
Adam Currygot the bat signal
and he sent 10,000SATs sent using pod verse.
Thank you very much, Adam.
So yeah, maybehe can comment in and
(34:05):
and tell meif he thinks if,
if he had gonethrough advertising and
assuming he'd
gotten the same amountof people listening to a
no agenda,which he almost certainly
wouldn't havebecause the advertiser
would have started to,it would have drove away
other people and drawnin certain others.
But let's just assumehe got the same amount.
(34:26):
I would love to know.
I would love toknow if if he thinks that
he would have earnedmore just in straight
up numbersthrough advertising.
Obviouslythe value for value model
relieson so much more and relies
this so much more valuewhich is not captured
monetarilyin this easy form,
but which actually isvaluable.
(34:47):
People creating a website.
People like this.
Peter
the Slav
who sent me in thisthis document
which I still usefor my chapters,
and I would have hadto pay someone to
like create some coding
or do some thingsto be able
to just copyand paste stuff,
you know, is it saving?
It's it's money,
(35:08):
but it's an A, it'sa different form.
And so it's very hardto capture.
But yes,thank you very much, Adam.
So, yes,
as a reminder of everyone,I am live as of 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard
Time on a Wednesday,which is UTC midnight.
Wherever you arein the world
(35:28):
on that Tuesdayand Wednesday.
So just plus or minus your
your time zonefrom the universal
coordinated time, youI would say UTC
and yeah yeahthat would be the way to
to join in lifeand send in a boost
live just like Mr.
Adam Currythe father has done there.
Let's jump back into theprevious booster Grahams.
(35:50):
We've got Sam Sethimaking a whole bunch of
paymentssent through pod fans.
Once again, check outthe progressive Web app
because you willget at the live bat signal
if you are if you have
if you're
a fan of the mere mortalsor of the sorry,
if you're a fanof the values of our show,
you will definitely
get that out and get thatthat app is it's going to
(36:13):
do some cool things.
So this is alreadyvery slick
to play around with itthe other day and yeah,
looking very, very nice.
We also have here Gene,being from the last show
from the volunteertechnologists
which I talked aboutand highlighted
his chat with Mitchis now out.
Please check it out.
It's it'svery fascinating.
It says great showand thanks
(36:33):
for the shout out 2222sent using custom medic.
Thank you very much Genemy man Much appreciated
We've got here Sir Spencerwho is of the
the wolf of
I think he calls himselfthe Wolf of Kansas City.
Yeah that's it.
Who from ball after bowl.
(36:54):
He says appreciate itthe self hosting Shout it.
Anyone can do itif they decide
they want to 6969Neon sent using pod verse.
He lovesthe meme numbers. He does
and at using pod verse.
Of course, the
the open source app,which I was talking about.
And then this is onewhere it's it's I,
(37:17):
I struggle with thisand so I probably say
something's wrong
sometimes and so he's,
it's got another boostsent in here
once again 6969using pod verse Thank you.
And he says,I think many people
who are technicallyinclined
still identify itas non-technical
just becausethey're more advanced,
just because there are
more advanced areasor aspects of tech
(37:38):
we use thatwe don't fully understand.
Hearing you identifyas non-technical
is like hearing someonewho changes their own oil
sayingthey're not a big car guy
because they can'trebuild an engine.
And then he's got the
emojiwith the beta sweat on it.
You've been
you've been out hererunning with scissors too,
and every day isa learning experience.
You're a technical guy,
whether you believe itor not.
Karen So thank you.
(38:01):
Thank you very much.
I think that'sa compliment.
Thankyou. Thank you. Spencer.
My problem, I
suppose, ismy my way of communicating
my dislikeof of of problem solving
when it comesto technology,
I find itincredibly frustrating.
I find it
almost anxiety producingat times, to be honest,
(38:21):
because it feels veryhidden behind the scenes.
Like what?
Why is this thingthat was working
has suddenly stopped?
For example,
the USB port on my laptop
has suddenly stoppedworking.
I try to do a bit of a fixin case it was a drive,
a thing that didn't work.
But there's still options
that it could beor it could be a
an actual hardwaredefault.
(38:42):
Some dusters got in.
I don't know.
What do I do with that?
I don't like thatexperience.
That pisses me offto no end.
So when I saynon-technical, I what
I mean is
I don't havethat intuitive talent
nor the desireto fully dive down
into these things.
But yes, in a in a wayI am because I obviously
(39:05):
have gotten very deepinto the booster cramming,
all of thesesorts of things
whichother people would say are
no, andthat's super technical.
I could never be ableto do that.
So I yeah,I do appreciate that.
I suppose it's
the paradox,the paradox of life that
even thoughI don't feel like I am,
perhapsI perhaps I actually am.
(39:25):
But in any case,
he had actually justa great chat
with Steven Bell from CureCosta of the Music
Side Project of the Splitkit of Ellen Beats Fame.
So the guy whoI was talking about
really on the Value forValue
Music episodebecause he does so much,
(39:46):
he had a great chatwith him
and they talked a lotabout coding
and this kind of aspectof of
trying to do things foryourself, self hosting.
And yeah,I would recommend
checking that out.
Oh, I'll puta link in this episode.
And then he says,
Have you heard No agenda,
no brand willadvertise with us
(40:06):
and we would have beenDemonetised years ago.
10,000That sent using podcast.
I have, I have Adam.
I've tunedinto a few episodes.
Yeah it's this isI guess the tricky thing,
right with the,with the ability
to to try and do thesetheoretical numbers.
You know I came upwith some numbers
just before of 245versus 455.
(40:31):
That 455
is it's a it's a vapour,it's a wisp of air.
It's it'snot a real tangible thing.
It's a it's a guesstimate.
And I it could very,very wildly I've heard
advertising ratesbeing double that 1.4%.
So does that mean that
that numbershould be doubled?
And I've also heard itbe significantly less
(40:53):
and I'm assuming it'sbeing on this end as you
as so many assumptionsthat come into this.
This is where I wouldprobably
maybe recommendfor someone who is.
All right,the starting of the
podcastfor the first time.
And they they'rereally enjoying it.
Perhaps they're getting
some listeners coming inand they're like,
okay, well,
I would love toat least recoup
some of the costsof hosting
(41:14):
and things like this.What should I do?
I would definitelyrecommend, you know,
attempting value for valueat the very least.
And I'm going to talk
about my tips sectionabout how you do that.
And this is where,you know, where
we're on onto the tipssection.
So you showswill do better
if you
adopt certain tactics andif you do certain things.
(41:37):
Now, you heard mementioning before,
and if you lookedat the graphs, you'll see
the current WestEnd is in Spanglish.
You said you hadfour shows, but you only
you only put in boostingamounts for three of them.
Well, if you look at thedates of things.
So the first
the first boostto Graham we received
received from Chadf was on the Yeah.
(42:00):
That end of Julyperiod of 2021,
I stopped the crazinessin Spanglish right around
that same period.
It was July Augustof that of that same year.
So what had been happening
was obviouslyI was doing a show
not as Innocent Spanglish,the book reviews,
but I never mentionedthe boost
branding
or any of the valuefor value stuff
because I didn'teven know about it.
I had never heard of itbefore.
(42:22):
So even though
I subsequently laterput in the value block
and had the abilityfor people to boost
and I never talkedabout it,
so I never gota single cent,
I never got a singleSatoshi from from anyone
doing that. So
what youwill notice is that
for value, for valueto really work,
you have to adopt certaintactics
(42:44):
and certain things
will will work betterand incentivise people
to come in.
Much likeAdam was saying here,
you know his show,No Agenda.
It got very popular
because they haveno agenda,
they don't have
advertising,they don't have people
telling them what they can
and can't say
whether it be in a strongform or a very soft form.
(43:05):
They don't have that.
And so the tacticsthat they have come up
with or tactics perhapseven is a strong word, the
the natural progressionof their show turned into
thingsthat would enable people
to to
boost it up, to boostand to to send money
to send valueto their show.
And so what are the someof these things? Well,
(43:28):
look, the book reviews,I didn't even bother
to do any graphsor things related to that.
Why It's becauseI've received
so little from that.
And then you can go,okay, well,
why have you receivedso little from that card?
Well,this is how I have done
the bookreviews in the past.
I would pre-record itso it would usually be
recordeda week or two in advance
(43:51):
because it required meactually reading the book
and keeping on top ofthis is rather hard.
So I would justpost it out.
I would have the callto action at the end.
Hey, please
boost into the showif you want to.
Like if you if yougot value from this.
But I never had any realgood feedback loop.
And soI started doing this
live one thatI would do once a month
(44:13):
that the recap
where I could address
all the booster Grahams
that had receivedin that past month.
Now is this great for
incentivefor people to boost in?
Well, not reallybecause they'll boost in.
And then it'sonly a month later
that I'm reallytalking about it.
So what I would say
here is some of the tipsfor for someone
who is creating valuefor value.
(44:34):
So, number one,first you have to ask,
make sure you askand make sure that you
let people know thatit's a value for value
so they can send inhowever much they want to.
And we're just focusingon the treasure aspect
here,the money aspect of it.
Make sure that you ask
and make surethat people know
how to do itand that they can send in
(44:56):
whatever amount they wantthat they value.
That is a critical one.
You need to make thethe feedback loop
as tight as possible.
And so when they,
you know, boost in orwhen they send in a PayPal
or wheneverthey do something,
they're sending youin cash or whatever
the acknowledgementshould come
in the next episodeif possible.
(45:16):
And so
this is where havinga really tight feedback
loop is is best.
So you still canprerecord, but
it's better to pre-record,
you know, one day
in advanceinstead of two weeks
like I was doingfor the book reviews.
Another one live is areally weird motivator.
We just seen AdamCurry here
boost in a whole bunch,and I can see him also
(45:37):
streaming and paymentsat the same time,
which is really,really cool.
If you look at thingslike twitch streamers
or even those NPClive streamers
that you seen on Tik Tok,
which I find sofascinating,
has such a coolsubject subgenre.
And so this is whereit will be a girl
with a camerain front of her and
people will send in a
(45:58):
it's like an emoji.
It's like a reaction,
which actually she canexchange for money.
And so if they sendan ice cream
on, she goes, ice cream.
So good, yum, yum, yum.
And obviously this is,
you know,what is the value
that people are gettingfrom that?
Well, it'sbecause it's live.
They do some action
and someone on the otherside of the world
(46:20):
responds to that anddoes something with me.
It was with Adamjust right now.
It was metalking about his show.
It was me
talking about somethingthat he messaged me
super, super cool.
And it's the same it's
the same aspectthat's going on
with these live streamers,these twitch's
twitch people and stuff.
There's just something
(46:40):
about the live experience
whichwhich people really enjoy.
And so then we go liveis is another one,
I think creating a bettershow, making it more easy
to for people, easierfor people to to boost in,
to contribute to the show.
So having the funding tag
within your actual shownodes doing, having
(47:01):
the value blocks is set upso that
if someone is listeningvia a podcasting app,
they can do it directlywithin the app.
All of these thingscreating
better show with chapter
art and imagesand things like this.
I think all of that
is very useful,essential as well.
And then the final one,consistency is critical
(47:22):
as passive income.
I'm I'm
coming to the conclusionthat passive income is a
largely a myth
just because you createa show
which hasevergreen content,
I don't think thatmeans that you're going to
get peoplegoing back and listening,
much like music royalties,where if you create
one really big show,
one really big hit,
(47:42):
you can live off thatfor the rest of your life.
I'm not sure the samewill work in podcasting.
I don't think thatthe intangible qualities
that music have of people
just listeningto something like
5100 times in a row,which I have done
with certain songs,
I don't think the sameis going to happen
(48:03):
with podcastingand a podcast episode,
no matter how viralit goes,
no matter how interestingthat one episode is,
I don't I don't think thatthat passive income,
you're going
to get the same as perhapsyou could with a a hit
a music hit, a songwhich just really,
you know,
somethinglike Stairway to Heaven,
(48:24):
which is just going to
it's it's stuckaround for so long. So
in thiscase, the consistency is
you have to keep doing it.
You have to keepputting out a show,
as Adam
Curry has done for six
years, with no agenda,as I have basically been
doing with my threeor four shows for,
well, three showsnow that a person is
(48:44):
is no longer activefor a long time.
And so yeah, that'sthat's another one. The
The passive income I thinkis is largely a myth
the app and servicehighlight for for today.
Let's jump onto that let'swrap this up
if you haven't used
OPI three,
I would
definitely recommendchecking it out
if you want to see
(49:05):
the statisticsand real granular things.
So if you once again,if you check
out yourchapter right now,
there'sall sorts of things
that he's got going onthere.
He's got thewhat was this called?
It was likethe episodes over time.
So you can really see
how the episodesare performing.
Typically you'll see itlike really shoot up
straight awayand then have this long,
(49:26):
long tail of peoplegradually listening in.
He's got such detailedstatistics there of,
you know,
which appsare people using,
where are they listeningfrom in the world?
Which certain countriesare once again
talkingabout non-technical?
I don't know how he gets
all of this stuff,but he does. The
the thing withall of this is you,
(49:48):
it's a o.p three dot
dev is way you should goto to check out more.
And it providesall sort of free data
because it's open.
So once again,you have to be comfortable
with someone comingand looking at that.
And because anyone canlook at it,
this data is outin the open.
So once again
open source check outthe last episode.
(50:10):
So what I would say,ask your host to put in
the necessary permissioninto your RSS feed.
It's actually
relatively simple,and I think most hosts
would bewilling to do that
and it can yet just getinto real granular info.
So I would recommendchecking that out.
I've just got a commenthere from one Disagree.
(50:30):
Passiveincome from podcasts works
very well for large
podcasters out therewith evergreen content.
Tim Ferriss has talkedabout this in the past
with some of his olderpodcasts.
Okay, I didn't know that.
Perhaps that's theexception, not the rule.
Also, the repostingof old content,
say five years laterwith no edit.
Does that count aspassive income?
Yeah, I get
(50:51):
kind of it's it's not.
Yeah,it's not an active effort
but certainlyit's older stuff
which I guess you could.
Yeah. YeahI'll, I'll, I'll allow it.
I'll allow it one.
So yeah I supposethat's a,
that's an idea as wellthere.
If you, if you justrepost old stuff
(51:12):
that kind of can play intothat consistency aspect.
But yeah. Look.
Well just from our numbersI can say
people have not beenboosting older episodes.
It's, it's, it's episodeswhich are the current
the recent ones.
Yeah.
Well we'll have to see.
We'll have to
grow our show biggerand then be allowed
(51:33):
to do that.
Let's,let's wrap it up here.
Value for value.
Who am I going to give 15%to this episode?
I'm going to give itto John Spurlock for
for creatingthe open three
dot dev.
He does a lot of
I have used some of his
graphs before such in thethe podcasting
2.0 ecosystem that episodeis it growing.
(51:55):
I used a coupleof his graphs
and now obviouslyI put in run
four for that episode.
So this is kind of
a little goodfor that as well.
And yeah,
he, it's in podcasting2.0 value for value.
It only workswhen tons of people
are contributingwhen we all get together.
I know thisepisode has been
very much focussedon the money aspect
(52:16):
which people certainlyare interested in, but
the whole show,
this whole showis very much about other
the other aspects of that,the connection
with your audience,
it's about
the different ways thatpeople can contribute.
It's about,
it's, it's about totallychanging your mindset
away from extractivevalue of people
(52:40):
need to get thisit's a zero sum game to a
a non-zero-sum game.
We cannot the pie can grow
and we can all be happierand better.
So final thoughts fromthis Just for me.
ObviouslyI'm not at this stage yet
where it isa full time income.
I'm going to workas hard as I can to make
that happen. And
(53:01):
if if after like ten years
I haven't made it,
I'll have to just admit,like, you know what?
I just wasn't ableto create enough value for
for people for this tobecome a full time thing.
And podcasting will
would thereforeremain a hobby for me.
But I'm going to fuckingtry really hard.
And what I've found from
(53:22):
just my own
personal life is
typically when I tendto stick with things
and I stick with themfor years and years,
I get better at it.
And, and
it does tend to justall work out in the end.
So thank you very much,everyone, for
for joining in time,Talent and treasure.
I would saysharing this episode
with the digital creator,
well, particularlywith a smaller podcaster,
(53:44):
I think would be immenselyvaluable for them.
Just so they can getsome rough numbers,
they can comparethat to where they're at.
All ofthis is rough, of course.
And but and knowit's niche.
It depends on your show
and all of thatsort of thing.
But I thinkjust having some numbers
sometimescan can help people out.
And then obviously comingand joining in live
(54:05):
like Juan and Adam, it issuper, super fun talent.
Is there anything I can do
to make this show better?
One was just say ofthe audio quality is
crisp, clear,
which is great because Ihave been working on that,
have been also workingon fixing up my studio,
getting a little bitmore soundproofing.
No, still soundproofing.
What's it called?
(54:27):
There's a wordfor making it
not completely soundproof,but for just reducing
reverb and echo andall that sort of stuff.
Resources thatare similar to the overlap
of these bookrecommendations.
Anything that I've saidthat spark some ideas
topic suggestions
you would like meto cover,
please send thosein via Instagram.
(54:47):
I would really love that.
Or you can reach out via
any of the social links
that are downbelow as well.
And then finally,the treasure.
Look, of courseI have to talk about the
podcasting appsand the booster grams.
That'sthat's the main thing
that I've beentalking about.
So new podcastapp stock com
or if you go to Miyamoto's
(55:07):
podcast dotcom slash support
I've got a littleexplanation there of
of how you can usea new podcasting app
to to helpsupport into the show.
If you don'twant to do that
if you don't wanta new podcasting app
if you go to the podcastindex website
and and boost in there
that will
(55:28):
value all of the splitsthat I'm putting up.
And sothat would be awesome.
So check out valuefor the number four value
on the podcastindex website,
or you can do it to me
directly at CARand I get all VidCon.
I'd preferyou wouldn't do that
because I want to
to send the value onto everyone else
who are in my splits.
But if you have to,
(55:50):
you can alsodo it there and
yeah, yeah.
Well we'll leave itat that
a couple of just littlemake goods as well.
I misspoke the other weekthere.
As of nowthere are four episodes
left of this season.
I will then probably takea small short break,
maybe a month, maybe less,
and then get backinto it for season four,
(56:11):
because I am really,really enjoying
doing these Valleyfor Value episodes.
And there was
another clarificationfrom the Ipfs podcasting.
I said thatyour favourite a feed.
I'm sorryI said that your favourite
an episode on that.
I meant that you favouritefeed.
Just a random littleclarification there but
yeah, thank you.Thank you for that.
(56:31):
Thank you for everyoneAdam and Swan
for joining me inlive. Very, very cool.
I much appreciate itand I would
yeah just leave it there
to next week'sepisode is going to be
it's going to bea bit of a different one.
I'm not exactly surehow it's going to work
in termsof the live component
because I'm going to beusing my phone to really
(56:54):
I want to dolike a showcasing
of all of these differentapps and their features.
Bruce Diagramminghow you can do
what it kind oflooks like.
So it's going to bevery much dominant
on the video aspect,which obviously I can't do
here on a live audio show.
So there'll be a
video thatwill come out afterwards.
(57:15):
So that one it will betalking about the
the apps themselvesand some of these
comparisonsand things like that.
So yeah,
a little heads up therefor what
to expect
and yeah, I really hope
you're havinga fantastic day
wherever you arein the world.
Thanks for joining mefor this longer episode
Chao for now, Kyrin out.
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