September 26, 2023 • 45 mins
What are the benefits of willing listeners eager to contribute? In Ep#51 we're going to compare the similar ethos between OS/V4V, how to properly acknowledge volunteers and a focus on the talent of the 3T's.
Huge thanks to Sam Sethi & Steve Webb for supporting the show. Every contribution counts!
15% of this episode is going to Steven Crader for his documentation and rock solid work in improving podcasting.
Handy links:
Revolution OS Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8K460vx1c
Boostagram Numerology Github: https://github.com/Podnews-LLC/boostagram-numerology/tree/main
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Huge thanks to Sam Sethi & Steve Webb for supporting the show. Every contribution counts!
15% of this episode is going to Steven Crader for his documentation and rock solid work in improving podcasting.
Handy links:
Revolution OS Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw8K460vx1c
Boostagram Numerology Github: https://github.com/Podnews-LLC/boostagram-numerology/tree/main
Value 4 Value Support:
Boostagram: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/support
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/meremortalspodcast
Connect With Kyrin/Mere Mortals:
Website: https://www.meremortalspodcast.com/
Discord: https://discord.gg/jjfq9eGReU
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/meremortalspods
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meremortalspodcasts/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@meremortalspodcasts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyrin Down (00:00):
What are the benefits of
willing listenerseager to contribute?
So welcome everyoneto another
episode of the Valuefor Value show.
My name is Kyrin. Hostof the Mere Mortals podcast.
The Mere Mortalsbook Reviews,
but also this show,
which is for digitalcontent creators
and those who are willing
(00:21):
wanting to connect deeperwith their audience
and also monetisetheir products,
perhaps in the way
that is a little bitoutside of the ordinary.
Not using the paywalloption of Patreon
and not using the optionof advertising,
but using value for value,which is essentially
getting supportfrom your listeners
who are willing and eagerto contribute to you.
(00:43):
So yes indeed,
the topic for today
we're goingto be talking about
and today
I am recording on the 27thof September 2023.
I do these live as well,so I always appreciate
if you want to come joinwith that.
There's some details inthe show notes about that.
And today
we're going to be talkingabout
the open source revolutionthat's upon us.
So what is this concernand why is this related
(01:05):
to value for value?
So I'm actually relativelynew to open source.
And I'll go more into the,
I suppose, definitionof that shortly.
But I've I've always been
a rathernon-technical person.
And so
now all of these thingsabout open source software
and debuggingand namespaces
and things like this, I'vealways really struggled.
(01:27):
When I first startedinteracting with it,
I really struggledto understand.
And so basically opensource is
creating software code
which is availableto the public
and anyone can contributeto it.
And, and it is freein the sense of freedom,
not necessarily
in the sense of the actualsoftware is free.
(01:47):
And or at leastthere's it's
you can monetisearound it.
And so they'll be talking
a little bitabout the history of this.
I'm going to go over
some of the reasons why
I think the ethosof the open source
community is very similarto value for value
as well as just talking
aboutwhy people contribute.
And we'll lookat the talent part of the
(02:08):
three TS as well. So
podcasting 2.0
was my real introduction
to the
open source communityand doing things out
in the open.
And it wasreally interesting to me
and I found myselfdiving further into it
and learningmore about the ethos.
This was at the same timeI was learning about
value for value and meantI really have dived in.
(02:30):
I've almost did my firstpull request recently.
I was trying to update
the update the boostagram number numerology
and I waswhich James Cridland
actually owns on aon a GitHub.
I didn't manage to do it,
but I will do thatshortly afterwards.
But open source actually
affects quite a few peopleand it almost certainly
(02:52):
has affected you.
So if you have ever usedMozilla Firefox,
if you've ever used
office, if you've ever usethe VLC media player,
if you've ever used
a laptop with IP on itor python or
shortcut KANU blend,what else do we have?
Apache web, The audacity.
And of course
I mentioned Linuxand which is basically
(03:13):
on every Android phone.
So if you've ever touchedan Android phone,
you have used some opensource software.
At some point and you'dnever really notice this.
And it's it'skind of hidden
in the backgrounda lot of the times,
which is
sort of what I think
Visa V is going to becomeat times.
It's you'll have thisability to to connect
(03:36):
with your audienceand you won't know
all of the thingsabout Bitcoin
that's going onbehind the surface,
which is happeningwith a lot of these
podcasting 2.0 apps
and you won't knowexactly how it works.
All you know is, Oh,
I got a messagedirectly from someone and
there was a value of moneyattached to it.
Wow, that was super cool.
Or Oh, this personreached out to me
(03:57):
and they lefta really nice comment.
And, you know, it'sbecause it doesn't have
all of the spamtype behaviour,
which you'll seeon YouTube comments.
It's actuallya valuable comment,
something that wasworthwhile and interesting
and intriguing.
And if you want to knowmore about these,
go back to the previousepisodes on Boost
aGrams
and the streaming of statsand things like that,
(04:18):
which you could findearlier
in the season in episodes43 and 44.
So we can see,
okay, there's opensources is upon us.
We'reencountering it every day.
How does this actuallyrelate
to valuefor value and why?
Why are they similar?
So I'm going to go overa couple of properties
(04:38):
here, which I have donein my bit of research
over this past week
because I didn'treally know
much aboutthe history of it. And
it's it's
actually prettyfascinating going into it.
And what really helped me
was this documentarycalled Revolution OS,
which was a documentary,and a lot of it
showcases thethe starting of how
(05:01):
people were usingsoftware.
This is basically likethe geeks and the nerds.
And when they werefirst creating software,
it was in this openenvironment.
No one had
passwords on their laptops
and they
because they would just or
on their computers,
I guessyou'd call them back then
and they because there was
no need toeveryone was just
would just contribute.
And even when they didset it up,
(05:22):
one of the guys,Richard Stallman,
who I'll talkmore about shortly,
would just hackinto the database and then
find everyone's passwordand then email
and be like, Hey,just so you know, like
your passwordis blah, blah, blah.
But it's much easier to
just press the into buttonbecause obviously it's
tongue in cheekbecause he's he's saying
saying and showing
(05:42):
how the abilityto share software
just becauseyou have a password
one doesn't mean it'snecessarily secure.
And it's a kind
of a barrier to the ethosof of sharing publicly.
So open source code
and this is just a
reading here
from a little website,open source
code is usually stored
in a public repositoryand shared publicly.
Anyone can accessthe repository
(06:03):
to use the codeindependently
or contributeimprovements to the design
and functionalityof the overall project.
So we can see thatokay, having a password
is not helping, that it's
actually a hindranceto people coming in.
And so there wasthis thing
called the Free Softwaremovement,
which was started bythis guy Richard Stallman.
And free actually inthis case doesn't refer to
(06:25):
price Free is very much
about the libertyto access the code
to change it for anyoneto have access to it.
And if you go and learn
more about the freesoftware movement,
he's kind of
got these principleswhich he lays out
and they're very muchrelated to liberty
and personal choiceand things like this.
And essentially it's theability to change, adapt,
(06:48):
use or not use
without restrictiveIP and licensing.
And so I think coined
this term the copyleftinstead of the copyright,
which is theand this is coming from
that documentary,a, quote,
inalienableright to cooperate
with other peopleand form a community.
And so that was from
this guy,Richard Stallman,
the Free softwareMovement founder.
(07:10):
And I think this isexactly
what is happening withvalues in value music.
For example, if you lookat the adaptability of
of what's happening,
someoneis putting up their music,
for example,and once again, go back to
some of the previousepisodes
where I talked about value
for value musicand how this operates.
So this is going backto episode 45 and 46.
(07:33):
This is where you can see,
okay,someone is putting up
something they've created,
so they'veput in some hardware
and created something
and now they're putting itinto an RSS feed
and basically just saying
if anyone wants to usethis, adapt it,
do what they want to it,they can please
just givesome accreditation.
And this is where it comes
(07:53):
to the licensingsort of aspect,
because with
with this software,open source software,
it usually comeswith a distribution
license and the licenseincludes terms
that define how developerscan use study, modify
and most importantly,distribute the software.
So it's not necessarily
free inthe sense of you can do
whatever you want with it,you can change it,
(08:14):
not give accreditation to
to the personwho has created
or steal it directlyor things like this.
There are a lot of nuanceswith this,
which is exactlywhat is the same with V.
For V, it'sa lot of nuance,
but essentially what I see
is it'svery similar in that
someone puts upa piece of software
source code software,
someone puts upsome music,
other people can see thatadapt it, and so they can
(08:37):
add lines that codeand then they can either
with with some of thelicenses, some of them say
if you change it
enough, you need to
then call itsomething different
so that the original
person is not getting,I guess, tainted with your
with whatyou've changed to it
because you could be
putting malware into it
and they don't want their
name associated with that.
(08:59):
Or you could just be doingminor alterations
to improve some bugs,which is,
you know, a good thing.
Value for value music
if someoneputs the music up
and then I put it into a Vfor V Jace show.
So this is like a value
for value music showwhere I'm
maybe talking over it,
maybe I've done
like a coupleof scratches, maybe I'm
jumping in and outand being like,
(09:20):
Yeah, here comes the bang.
A part 2 to 2.
Obviouslyyou're changing the music.
You're adapting it
because you're addingyour extra audio
on top of it,or perhaps you've done a
remixor something like this,
but we can see, okay, thisis it's the same ethos.
Someone'sputting something up
and just saying, Hey,I've created this thing,
(09:41):
why don't you use it?You can adapt it,
you can do these thingsto it.
And obviously there'sgoing to be some nuances.
And I would actuallyimagine
if value for value musickind of gets as big
as I thinkit's going to get,
there's probably going
to need to besome licenses
and different typesof licenses.
Oh yeah, You can use itin this sense
or you can only use it
if you're including meas a 90% split
(10:04):
or my value block,as is 90% of it.
So I get 90% of any incomecoming in from people
listening to your show,which is it?
Using my music.
So I think this has gota very similar use case of
value for value.
And I do the samewith my show here.
Like I put it out there,
if anyone wants to createclips from it,
(10:24):
if they want to adapt it,do anything
they want to it,that's awesome.
If they want
to rip off the entire show
and then put iton Spotify.
Yeah, okay.
I'm not happywith that person. Hey.
And so this is where it'slike, yeah, there is some
boundary pointsthat can be crossed,
but once again,the nuances, it's the,
the spirit behind it of,
(10:45):
of sharing thingspublicly.
And I think that's a very
nobleambition and something
that actually in the best
in the long term
actually distributesthings, makes it
more widely available.
So another point here,
which we haveis contribution.
So open sourceis all about others
contributingto make it better.
(11:05):
And this can be done on asomewhat voluntary basis
or they can be compensatedfor it.
So, you know,
no financial gain orthey actually have some.
And we can see thisin in various aspects,
various aspects of valuefor value as well.
Alex Gates, for example,he contributed the topic
for this week.
(11:26):
He was the onewho suggested
I do open source softwareor open source
and on the valuefor value show
and how that relatesto value for value.
And you know,
that wasa great suggestion
because I probablywouldn't
have done thatwithout him.
I wouldn'thave done the research
to do this very showwithout him, him
saying that.
And so then lookingat that and then saying,
(11:47):
okay, you know,I do something similar
with the valuefor value splits as well
with this very show.
So if you look into thethe value block for this,
you'll see I've got twowhich are at 1%,
one is for the blue spotby C Dubs
and another is
by the fountain blue spot,which is just
a service that I add on
(12:09):
to this becauseI find it beneficial.
It's surfaceboostagrams
in a waythat I personally can't do
and highlights themin a different way.
And I'm willing
to compensatepeople for that
and they just askthat they get
put into the splits.
And this is very muchhow open
sourcesoftware works as well.
People contribute,
they make things better,and then
(12:30):
they're not trying to
lock down the softwareitself.
Anyonecan get access to it, but
it does take effort,time to learn these things
and you can make iteasier.
Yeah, sure.
I'll cometo your workplace
and I'll help install itfor you.
I'll train up your staff
so they know how
to use the Linuxoperating system or Debian
(12:50):
or whatever it is
that they're running
on their particularcomputers and servers.
And so
I think this aspectof contribution
is very much importantto do
value for value as well.
Someone can help
contribute to this show
in in variousdifferent ways
and I'll talk moreabout that at the end
in this case, we've seenthat Fountain and C Dubs
(13:11):
have done it
through a softwareas a service sort of way.
They've created somethingI could never create.
I don't know how to code,
I don't
know how to do thesethings,
and I'm compensating themfor that.
And then Alex Gates or Sir
Alex Gates has contributed
to this showby giving me a topic
which
I wouldn't have thoughtabout otherwise,
but I'm not going tocompensate for this one.
(13:32):
And so you can kind of seethere's these
these two aspectswhich are very,
very much similarwith them, open source.
And so, yeah, very,very interesting to to see
that kind of parallelthere.
Another oneis transparency,
and you can actually makea better product
when anyone can viewall the bugs messiness
(13:52):
and how the sausage ismade.
And so
in this revolutionarydocumentary
it was talking aboutthis guy
called Eric Rayment,who sort of
honestly is probably like
it's kind of similar to mein that he's
kind of like a little bit
of a philosopherwhilst also
tryingto do practical things.
And so he wrote this
manifesto,I guess you'd call it,
(14:12):
called the Cathedraland the Bazaar,
and it was basically a
a document,a paper that he wrote,
which is sort ofin a book form as well,
talking about how he wasarguing in this, that
by creatingusing open source
and having people
coming into the actual code
(14:32):
itself, you'regetting more eyes on it,
you're getting more peoplelooking at it,
you're getting more peoplefixing it
as compared to a companywith closed software
who only have a limitednumber of developers
and they have to be,you know, they're on a
time schedule.
They're on a pay.
If they don't get paid,they're not
going to be working on it.
And he was justessentially saying
(14:53):
that in the long run,
actually open sourcing
your code does createa better product
because you havemore people doing this.
And I believethe same applies
to to content creation.
When you start having ads
and sponsorsentering the picture,
I think this startsto shift.
I think your productsthat you're creating
becomes diluted.
(15:14):
And this is not a newobservation.
People over
the many years have talkedabout how,
you know, art becomesmainstream
or commercialisedand then it's
it loses
that essence that made itthis underground thing
that was so vibrant,so passionate, so
interesting and unique.
And then itit becomes mainstream.
It becomes, you know,
(15:35):
kind of corrupted
by all of the influencesof people saying,
Oh, you should probably
not talk about thison this show.
You might not want to dothis.
And it's not like itruins it necessarily, but
the misaligned incentives
that we were talking aboutfrom the last episode,
I thinkto start to crop up,
you see on the open source
side of thingsor on the business side
(15:56):
of things, of software,
if something is closedsource,
you tend to get
these monopolieslooking at you, Microsoft
or this lockedin behaviour where you
you offer it to someone
and then it becomesan integral part of the
of the company that isusing the software.
And then you start
not supportingprevious versions.
(16:17):
So they have to upgradeand then you're,
you've got kind of likepoor customer support
because they don't haveany other option.
They have to use you.
So if you only wantto hire
five customersupport people
when you really need ten,well it's like, well,
too bad
you just going to haveto deal with that
company becauseyou're locked in. And
in allof these cases, it's
(16:38):
creating a worse product
for the personwho wants to use it
in the softwareside of things.
And I mean personally,my belief
is that the more ads
you start to addin, the more sponsors,
the more
outside influencesthat you have on your show
probably are going to havethis type of behaviour
(16:59):
where it is lockingyou in, where you are
doing thingsthat I think just create
a worse product.
And so having thistransparency of,
look, this is how I dothe value for value.
So you can see exactly
who is influencing me
and how muchthey're influencing me
because I read outall the boostagrams
(17:20):
and because I acknowledgethe support.
And in this case,if I do start
talking about thisparticular topic,
you know, it's it'sbecause either I want to
or because I've been
influenced in a waywhich you can see it's
the kind of thingshidden behind
the surface, which are the
leads to worse outcomes,I personally believe.
So we've gotthe adaptability,
(17:41):
we've gotthe contribution,
we'vegot the transparency.
And then the far
final onehere was the meritocracy.
And so
only the softwarethat people want
and adopt and adopt
will actually survivelong term.
So just becausesomething is open
source doesn'tmean it's good.
You know that
there's plenty of bugs,there's plenty of things
that make itkind of crappy.
(18:03):
And it's it's very much
if we look at podcasting2.0, for example,
if there wasn'ta desperate need
for from people like mewho wanted to create
a better product,who wanted to
be able to connect
with their audience in ain a more
peer to peer manner,being able to do it
(18:24):
through the actualpodcasting apps themselves
instead of havingto direct them
to go on to Instagram or
go onto Facebookand do this thing
and then connect with methere,
I'm much
it just makesso much more sense
to be able to do itwithin the app.
Why can't we do itthat way?
Okay, well, we don't haveall the infrastructure.
A namespace sets of rulesto for app developers
(18:44):
to be able to do this.
All right, let's let's doit. Let's create it.
And that's exactlywhat Adam
Curry and Dave Jones did.
And you know,
if people didn't wantthat,
it wouldn'thave taken off.
It would have diedon the vine.
Podcasting, too,
when I would havehad 15 shows
and then it wouldhave been like, eh,
nothing's really happeninghere. Okay, All right.
Let's let's call it that.
Instead, what has happenedis there's been a
(19:05):
super vibrant,vibrant community formed.
There's a lot of peopleworking to create apps
to talk about valuefor value.
Me here,
you know,
there's peoplewho are great at code,
there's people
who are greatat advertising,
there's peoplewho are great at finding
hidden podcasts.
The Swedish tricolour,for example,
there's people who aregreat at documentation,
(19:26):
which is very necessaryfor developers
to be able to useall sorts of things.
We can see theso many people
who want to contribute,
who are
willing to contribute,
and it'sthe contribution that
that provides the value,I guess, and
the same sort of thing.
If you have acompany, for example, that
(19:47):
a show.
So let's look at it.
In this case,
there's you've gota company that has created
a service aroundsome open source software.
If the software is not
getting picked up, ifLinux was not being used,
the companies that werecreated back in the day,
I can't remember some ofthem from this Revolution
(20:09):
documentary,
they would have gonenowhere.
They would have
one was called Linux VA,for example.
It had a big stock pricething, it iPod.
And what you couldkind of see was like it
just kind of went downover time.
Now this was probablydo a lot to the the
(20:30):
dotcom bubble burst
that that happenedaround that time.
But there wereother companies
that did IPO redhot for example,
whichstill exists to this day
and is still thriving.
And you know, it isrelated to the marketplace
and not having monopoliesor outside
controlon on a fair market,
which typically tends tolead to to worse outcomes.
(20:53):
So, for example,
on the podcastingside of things,
if you have a showby a company
designedto sell a product,
that's probablygoing to need some outside
source of revenueto keep that show going.
So for example,let's just take Nike
and they've got a podcastrelated
to selling the newest Nikeshoes, the newest Nike
(21:15):
natural brandthat's coming up.
You'reprobably not going to want
to use value for value.
I'm not sure
value for value
will really workfor a show like that
because they've gota very explicit purpose of
of selling you something.
The I guess like thethe show is
it's more of asales device
rather than somethingwhich is designed to
(21:38):
to bring valueto the customers, to the
the peoplelistening to the podcast.
It's it'sactually more designed
to take value from them.
It's trying to get them to
to buythe newest piece of shoe
or the newest shirtor something like that.
And so in that case,it's it's more of a
extractive value.
So it probably needsI'm not sure
(21:59):
value for value would workfor a show like that.
Whereasif you have other shows,
hopefully like this one,which are trying to
providevalue in that sense
and then just askingfor value to be returned,
you know, if,
if I do the showfor ten years and I
it doesn't take off,people aren't
getting value from it.
You know,that's just the market.
(22:20):
That's just like,all right, well, people
actually didn't wantwhat I'm creating here
and they didn'tvalue it enough.
And so the show goes awayand, you know,
there's no there'sno problems with that.
And I have no problemswith the,
you know, the Niketype podcast
who are tryingto sell things.
That's just advertising,that's marketing.
That's, you know, how youget a product out there.
I just don't thinkthat will work
(22:41):
super successfully
or would even work at allwith value for value.
And so when you've got
this kind of meritocracyof the best software,
it's open source,it's out there,
anyone can use itand contribute.
If people don't like thatproject,
they're not going tocontribute.
It dies on the vine,
very similar to a showdoing value for value.
(23:01):
If it's a showwhich is providing value,
it is making thingsbetter.
People will contributeback to that.
There'sno doubt about that.
And it's just how much.
And if that will serve youover time as well,
that kind of meritocracy,I think it will
could almost call itthe free market,
if you want of
value for value is sortof the free market.
(23:21):
If if it's a
if it's a crappy product,no one's listening,
no one wants it,it's going to go away.
And this is where,you know,
the onus is on meto actually
create somethingthat's good.
I do hope thatI create something
which is valuablethat helps people out.
And so yeah, that's
I suppose the four mainaspects that I see for
creating something, the,the ethos that is
(23:43):
matched between valuefor value and open source
before I get ontothe Instagram lounge
and I did want to makeone more point
about the incentivesfor contributing as well
and a little story timehere.
So I do
the minimalist podcastwith my co-host one.
We've been doing thatfor years now
and have you know, we'vegradually
I've basically beenshowing him
(24:04):
about the value for value,about podcasting,
2.0 open source,this sort of thing.
And we always are tryingto come up with new ways
for people
to incentivise peopleto contribute to the show
and to create more valuefor the show.
And he was suggesting,like,
Oh, okay,
what if we do this thing
for in Octoberor Yeah, in October
(24:25):
we do a pay backto listeners.
So if someone boostsin a certain amount,
well then put themin the value
block for the next monthand that way they'll be,
it can be kind of likea game type of deal where
if the morethey contribute,
the more they could get
contributionsfrom the past.
And it's kind of like,
you know,if you look at it
that way, it'salmost leading to the the
the Ponzi economics style,
(24:47):
you know,taking from others
to pay backthe original people.
And I was
when he first suggestedthis, I was
I waskind of off the bat like,
I'm notnot a big fan of that
one because it does havethat sort of feel of the
taking from others to payfor the original people
to then get them to,you know, and I
(25:08):
it a lot of incentivesand gamification is about
just doing things
to make people do things,even if it's
not necessarilyin their best interest
or I mean,I guess you could say,
you know,
actuallyI'll take that back
because who knowswhat's in someone's
best interestif they want to play,
(25:29):
spend their whole lifeplaying video games,
like please go at it.
Just be aware thatthat's what you're doing.
You are spendingyour whole life
playing video games,you know,
5 hours, 10 hoursa game a day.
And I look,I love it as well.
I'm very fascinated by thehistory of Speedrunning.
I watch videos on themall the time.
And you know, there arepeople who will dedicate
(25:52):
thousands ofhours to just playing one
level of a game overand over and over again.
But in this case,I was going,
yeah, I'm not I'm notso sure on that.
I'm not too happyabout that.
And I couldn't exactly
say whyit was what in particular
that that made me go,
Yeah,but when I was thinking
about this more,I realised what it was.
And so I'mgoing to actually
(26:14):
give a suggestion here
of some learning A
I've taken from a podcastcalled
Volunteer Technologist
Spike Guycalled Gene Liberman,
and if you ever seenboosting around
it's name is Gene Bean
and he's got a fewepisodes out now, I think
eight and he's got onecoming out pretty soon
with Mitch Downey,who is from Pod verse
(26:35):
one of the appsI talk about regularly,
who pod verseactually is open source.
And he the Gene actuallysent me that interview
a little bit beforeit was released.
Very much appreciateit for him to do that and
what I've taken away fromlistening to his show.
And so his is all aboutvolunteer technologists.
(26:55):
It's peoplevolunteering their time to
create technologyto help other people out.
And so in this case,
he was talking abouthow Mitch with Pod Verses
was really interestedin the accessibility
aspect of the podversus app of creating it
so that it's helpfulfor people
who do have accessibilityproblems, whether that be
(27:18):
trouble seeing,
whether that be troublehearing,
whether that be trouble,
you know, in any of thosesort of cases.
So in this case,
this is why
transcripts were
so important for for him
and integratingthat into pod verse.
And in generalthese people are not
motivated by money.
If you look atwhat's actually going on,
why are they doingthese things?
Why are they creating,
(27:39):
volunteering their time
and they're not gettingcompensated?
Obviously,that's the the whole
aspect of volunteering.
And so when it comesto the incentives
for contribution,for open, open source,
it's it's typicallynot money.
It's orI would say it's probably,
you know, 4% of peoplecontribute to a show,
(28:00):
probably 96% of peoplewill contribute to
open source
or to a show, not for anyfinancial aspect at all.
So in this case,they're writing code.
They're doing it because
they want this thingto succeed.
And sure,they'll do some hours
outside of it, though
they'll share itwith their friends.
(28:20):
They will helpa developer out.
They'll be on the betatesting
like I am for Fountain,
and they will jointhe communities,
they will participate,they'll do
all of these things
where it's there's nothingfinancial related to it.
And if there is, it's
like, Whoa,that was unexpected.
I didn't I didn't knowthat would happen.
(28:41):
And very muchthe same, I think, for
for people contributingto a show
that they don't
want to get paidback in return,
if someone's contributingto this very show,
they're not contributingso that they can
then get some moneyback in return.
They're contributingso that I can read
out theirname so that they
feel good about
contributing toto something of value.
(29:04):
Because I am puttingin a whole ton of work of
watchingthese documentaries,
creating the resources,doing all the links,
the chapters,all of that sort of stuff.
And it's they, they,they just, you know,
they just wantthe name read out.
They just want to feelgood for themselves.
They just want
to create a connectionwith me
because I'm awesomeor you're nice.
(29:26):
And so this is where I waslike, okay,
incentives wise as well.
It's probablynot the best for,
okay, let's
if you if you contributeto this show,
you'regoing to get this thing.
And look,
we do do thatfor the mere mortals,
which this show isconsidered part of.
If you contribute
more than 100,000 sets,
(29:46):
we will send youa miyamoto's t shirt.
But it's like,
you know that that's justbasically an equivalency
because 100,000 sets atthe moment
is about 40 AUD,
which is about
how much the shirts costin the first place.
So it's not like you're,
you're comingout of this with anything
in a financial aspect,but you do have, you know,
(30:09):
my appreciation.
I send you a notenow I send, you know,
this shirt as well is ais a confirmation of that.
You have contributed.
It's it's like,you know, limited edition.
So you get that aspectas well.
There'sall sorts of reasons
why people contributeand most of it
is not related to money.
So when you thinkabout the open source
(30:29):
or whether you think about
value for value,it is important to
to have a deepthink about, okay,
why is someone actuallycontributing to this show?
Is it
because they want
a financial return andsome point in the future?
No, it's probably not.
It's probablyfor other reasons
and it's best to highlight
those reasonsand make them more
availableand widely known.
(30:49):
So that was very,very cool.
I'm going to nowjump onto the Boosta
Gram Loungebefore we start talking
about some tips andother things at the end.
Welcometo the Value for Value.
Boostagram Lounge.
So the Boostagram Loungefor everyone
(31:10):
who is wonderingis the section where
I read out the messagesfor people
who have contributed
to the show in ain a monetary form
and thank them very muchfor that.
It's the best way to dothis is via a podcasting
2.0 app, and today
I'll reallyhighlight podcast
because podcast is opensource
and you can go
contribute to podcastsand you can also
(31:31):
contribute to this showby sending in a boost.
A boost is a messagethat you send
within the actual app,
very muchlike how you would send
a commentson a YouTube video.
And when you
send that message,it comes directly to me
becauseall of the infrastructure
and all things like thatare set up with it
and you can choose anamount to help support it.
(31:52):
So we use Satoshisat this moment
and there's all sortsof fun things
you can dowith the numerology,
as you will seein the Graham numerology
link, which I'll also putinto the show notes.
And so you can do thingslike like Ruby did
last weekwith the 1770, 70,776,
(32:13):
which is a big libertyboost
and a whole bunchof people have contributed
today.
So I can see right offthe get go here
that SamSethi was streaming
and a lot of paymentswould say
some somewhat coming
throughwith this boostagram.
So very muchappreciated for that.
Thank you very much.And also William Kenny.
So that was really,really cool.
And thenthe only other one
I've actually gotten fromthis week
(32:34):
was from the God casterhimself, Steve Webb.
Another episode Carand keep It Up.
17,777So almost almost a big
libertyboost will count that
as one or two a stripe,a boost with an extra one
at the front of it.
And he sent thatin using fountain
and you can actually gocheck out an episode
(32:57):
I did talking about
one of his showscalled Life Spring Media
in season two,which was episode number.
Oh, let me just bringthis up here in my upload.
It shows season to episodenumber 22 last spring,
Family Audio Bible.
So very much appreciated.
(33:18):
Thank you. Steve and Steve
obviously enjoyedlast week's episode,
which was all abouthow does this time go
so quickly?
What was lastweek's episode about?
Last week's
episode was aboutthe incentives of hosting
and how everyoneneeds to win.
So thank you very much,Steve, for that.
Once again,
(33:38):
you can contributein very many ways,
and it's not just viaBoostagrams, but
I really do appreciatewhen those come in
and Steve has takenanother step towards
getting that that nicefancy Miyamoto shirt.
So 100,000 setsis the limit for that.
So if you want itand there's only
19 of them left.
So yeah, just got to,
got to recognisethose things are going
(34:00):
to go quick.
So I am going to go onto my little tip
section here and I guesswhat on the meta level,
what is the lesson totake away from this? And
for me it was
it's really worthwhilefocusing on the talent
aspect of the Three T's,
the time, talentand treasure and
(34:22):
people are so diverse thatthey just can contribute
in ways and see thingsthat I can't.
They dothings differently.
And, you know,
I wouldn't have lookedinto open source history
without that suggestionfrom from Sara.
Alex gets more eyeballs
and the code makes it moresecure.
More is on this podcast
will actuallymake it better
because people will
(34:42):
contributein various different ways.
They might have audio
stuffthat they can hear about.
They might
give me more suggestions,they might tell me
hiring you, sayingI'm a little bit
or you're being tooself-deprecating.
You need to be morearrogant,
you need todo these things.
So andI would take them in.
Some of those suggestionswill be helpful.
Some of them might not.
And that's okay.
(35:03):
That's the whole aspectof of the talent
really coming inbecause other people
can seeand do things differently.
And so
if you're checking outyour screen now,
it's going to look likea little gobble
of numbers or lettersand strings of lists.
And it's like,what the hell is this?
Well,this is the podcasting
2.0 teamtaken from the GitHub.
(35:25):
And this is a listof everyone
who has contributedto podcasting
to point out in some wayor at least
have done somethingwhich has made them worth
while ofof joining the list.
Because,I mean, there's probably
honestly a lot more peoplethan what is on here.
And it's just so hardto keep up
with everyone who has.
And so
(35:45):
if you gothrough that list
and you won't be ableto do it
on the on the screen here
because there's probably,I don't know,
100 differentnames more than that.
And allof these different people
will contributedifferent things.
They'll be people who arepodcast is on here.
There's poddevelopers, there's people
from the hosting sideof the business.
There's peoplewho are more interested
(36:06):
in databasesand aggregation
is obviously
and Adam Curry's ofThe World is the Dave
Jones is the these peoplewho are the kind of core
lynchpins of it,but everyone contributes.
Everyoneis doing something.
And so if you've gota show, if you've got a
somethingthat you're creating,
whether it be digital art,
(36:27):
whether it be documentary
it's worth focusing on,
what can
other people contributeand how can
they contribute in a way
which I personally can'tdo, which whether it be
because of personalitythings, whether
because of where they livein the world,
whether it bebecause they've spent,
you know, decades
focusing on
(36:47):
just the aspect
of photographyor something
like this, it's alwaysworth exploring how can I
utilise the talents and,and not only do that,
but find a way for peopleto contribute
with their talents
that really improvethe show or improve
the end product of theart that I'm creating. And
(37:09):
I think that's reallyworthwhile focusing on the
the second T of the timetalent and treasure,
because it's,
it's a huge aspectof, for example,
what makes no agendaso great.
They have people who are
doctors, physicists,chemists
working in thesedifferent companies
which can addmedia sources,
which you won't hear.
(37:30):
And it's likethe boots on the ground.
And that's just oneexample of how
you can createa really successful show
based around
other peopleare sending into you,
because that is a lotof how they get
the news stories
that they talk about on onNo Agenda.
So very, very cool.
The app and servicehighlight
that I wanted to do
this week was actuallywant to recommend
(37:50):
a few podcastson top of genes as well.
So what is also really
sparked my interestin open source and,
and learning moreabout how similar it is
to value for valuewas a lot of the Jupiter
broadcasting showsthe suite they have
and they'll definitelygive you a taste
of that viadifferent mechanisms.
So there'sthe code of radio
the self-hostedthere's Linux unplugged.
(38:13):
There used to be Linuxaction show.
I can't rememberif that still there.
Chris Fischerhas been in the world
of open source for decades
and not only that, he'sbeen podcasting about it
for decades.
And so
if you want to knowmore about open source,
he's like
a lifelong proponentof this model, basically,
(38:34):
and he has alsobeen recently especially
getting very hardinto the value for value
and how that can helphis show survive
during a time where it isharder for advertising.
Money has been drying upover this
last year and a bit.
So he obviously seesthe link between those two
and howit is so important.
(38:57):
And so if you want to knowmore about that, I would
just recommend checkingout some of those shows.
Jupiter Broadcasting.
And also I had a chatwith him on episode
90 of The Mere Mortals,so gives you an idea
of some of what
it's like to embody
the ethos of open sourceand be for
and listen to iton podcast
because it's opensource as well.
(39:17):
So that is it.
Almost to the end of thisepisode, the fast last
and final thing to do hereis the V4 V section.
Who am I going to give 15%of this episode to?
Well, I'm going to give itto someone who I am
is kind of unnamed,I guess.
So, you know,
and that'sthat's the thing with open
source and
value for value, there's
(39:38):
these people who have donethese amazing things
behind the surface,which you just don't
realise is as much likehow much they contributed,
how muchthey have helped out.
And so todayI'm going to give 15%
to Stephen Crowder,
who I believe
does most, if not all, ofthe documentation for the
podcast index GitHub. And
(39:58):
that's just really, really
important workbecause without the
putting of codeinto language of
this is what this is,this is what that is
the kind of fake newsthat guides is it's so
hard, you know,
this is kind of
what this show is trying
to do is give you a guideto value for value and
how it can beuseful for you
(40:20):
no matter how you'recreating digital content
and I think that he doesa crazy amount of work,
and I hope this little bitthat I'm contributing
back to him
just just goes to showthat sometimes things
which perhaps might seem
unnoticed
are actually noticed,but they might not
be monetarily rewarded.
(40:40):
And in this case, I dowant to reward him for his
his effort, everythingthat is he's done so
very, very muchappreciated for that.
The last aspect here
I'll give youis the three TS.
So the timetalent and treasure,
what can you do to helpcontribute
to this showto make it better?
Well, obviously
sharing the episodewith the digital creator,
but I also reallyappreciate
(41:02):
if you come and join melive.
That'sprobably the most fun.
Last week
we we had a couple ofpeople in the Memories
Discord Chat
which was
one and Blueberry and it'sjust a nice environment.
So I go live on a 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard Time,
which is midnight of UTCon that kind of border
(41:24):
between Tuesdayand Wednesday.
So Tuesday, midnight,I guess you'd call it.
And yet if youif you want to join me,
I'm liveon all of the apps
you get a notification
pod verse on fountainthose sort of things
if you havethe notifications set up
and podfans is another great one.
Kara Costa, podcast guruAll of those
will give you accessto this live episode here.
(41:48):
So yeah,
I would
reallyappreciate your time
if you, if you are awakeand available
to join mefor that talent.
Well,you've got to let me know,
is there anything I can do
to make this show better?What annoys you?
What resources are similarto the eith up or
overlap of these?
Any book recommendationsyou would take?
I really want to readthat one
about the cathedraland and the bazaar.
(42:08):
I think that that would be
really helpfulfor for me to do
and yeah I would
I would love to receivesome of your talent.
What are aspects of valuefor value
that I'm not talkingabout enough.
Knowingthese things is very,
very important to,
to making this show better
and to to spreading theword of value for value.
And then the finalone here is the treasure.
(42:28):
You've got three options.
The most preferred versionis using podcasting
2.0 app,
new podcast app ask.com.
If you want tocheck that out.
And in those apps youget so much more benefits.
I've got the chaptersin there, I've got links
for all of these thingsthat I'm talking about.
So there is a YouTubelink to the Revolution
(42:49):
OS documentary,for example.
If you click on thatchapter
and put transcriptsin there, there's all
the funding tag,there's all sorts of ways
where you geta better experience
on these app,
the live, you know, it'sit's worth checking out
some of one of these appsjust to to experience
(43:10):
all of the coolthings that are going on.
And I will just give
another shout out hereto pod verse
I have two for thisepisode so open source
what can I do?
Another aspect is
you can go to the podcastindex website
or even directly to meat KYRAN at get,
I'll be dot
com if you want to justcontribute in that manner.
(43:32):
And so if you go tothe podcast index website,
for example,
you will be able to
acknowledgeall the splits,
so you will be able
to send itto Stephen Crater as well,
which is very muchappreciated
and I'm sure he wouldappreciate that as well.
But yeah, it's that'sone way of doing it.
And then the last one
is via the PayPal,
which is down in the linksbelow,
(43:54):
and you can send in PayPaldirectly.
To me,
that'smore of a contribution
to the mere mortalsas a whole.
But yeah, it is very muchappreciated.
This show does createa lot of time
that will cost mea lot of time
to research these things.
It does cost mea lot of effort
to get intoall of the nooks
and cranniesto really create my notes,
to spend all the timedoing this.
(44:14):
So contributing back to
it is very muchappreciated.
And so we're going toleave it there for today.
That's another value forvalue episode in the bag.
Thank you very muchfor joining me.
There's probably about
four episodesleft of this season and
then I will probablyhave a short break
and then come backwith another season
(44:35):
shortly afterwards.
But yep,four more seasons,
four more episodes toto contribute to this show
to look forwardto, to get excited
next week
I'm going to be
going all over the caseexemple of my own stats
about is value for valueactually working?
You've talked about itso much.
Khan but is itactually having an impact?
And so I will show youhow it actually is.
(44:57):
So to be to be continuednext week's episode. So.
Chao for now, Kyrin out.
What are the benefits of
willing listenerseager to contribute?
So welcome everyoneto another
episode of the Valuefor Value show.
My name is Kyrin. Hostof the Mere Mortals podcast.
The Mere Mortalsbook Reviews,
but also this show,
which is for digitalcontent creators
and those who are willing
(00:21):
wanting to connect deeperwith their audience
and also monetisetheir products,
perhaps in the way
that is a little bitoutside of the ordinary.
Not using the paywalloption of Patreon
and not using the optionof advertising,
but using value for value,which is essentially
getting supportfrom your listeners
who are willing and eagerto contribute to you.
(00:43):
So yes indeed,
the topic for today
we're goingto be talking about
and today
I am recording on the 27thof September 2023.
I do these live as well,so I always appreciate
if you want to come joinwith that.
There's some details inthe show notes about that.
And today
we're going to be talkingabout
the open source revolutionthat's upon us.
So what is this concernand why is this related
(01:05):
to value for value?
So I'm actually relativelynew to open source.
And I'll go more into the,
I suppose, definitionof that shortly.
But I've I've always been
a rathernon-technical person.
And so
now all of these thingsabout open source software
and debuggingand namespaces
and things like this, I'vealways really struggled.
(01:27):
When I first startedinteracting with it,
I really struggledto understand.
And so basically opensource is
creating software code
which is availableto the public
and anyone can contributeto it.
And, and it is freein the sense of freedom,
not necessarily
in the sense of the actualsoftware is free.
(01:47):
And or at leastthere's it's
you can monetisearound it.
And so they'll be talking
a little bitabout the history of this.
I'm going to go over
some of the reasons why
I think the ethosof the open source
community is very similarto value for value
as well as just talking
aboutwhy people contribute.
And we'll lookat the talent part of the
(02:08):
three TS as well. So
podcasting 2.0
was my real introduction
to the
open source communityand doing things out
in the open.
And it wasreally interesting to me
and I found myselfdiving further into it
and learningmore about the ethos.
This was at the same timeI was learning about
value for value and meantI really have dived in.
(02:30):
I've almost did my firstpull request recently.
I was trying to update
the update the boostagram number numerology
and I waswhich James Cridland
actually owns on aon a GitHub.
I didn't manage to do it,
but I will do thatshortly afterwards.
But open source actually
affects quite a few peopleand it almost certainly
(02:52):
has affected you.
So if you have ever usedMozilla Firefox,
if you've ever used
office, if you've ever usethe VLC media player,
if you've ever used
a laptop with IP on itor python or
shortcut KANU blend,what else do we have?
Apache web, The audacity.
And of course
I mentioned Linuxand which is basically
(03:13):
on every Android phone.
So if you've ever touchedan Android phone,
you have used some opensource software.
At some point and you'dnever really notice this.
And it's it'skind of hidden
in the backgrounda lot of the times,
which is
sort of what I think
Visa V is going to becomeat times.
It's you'll have thisability to to connect
(03:36):
with your audienceand you won't know
all of the thingsabout Bitcoin
that's going onbehind the surface,
which is happeningwith a lot of these
podcasting 2.0 apps
and you won't knowexactly how it works.
All you know is, Oh,
I got a messagedirectly from someone and
there was a value of moneyattached to it.
Wow, that was super cool.
Or Oh, this personreached out to me
(03:57):
and they lefta really nice comment.
And, you know, it'sbecause it doesn't have
all of the spamtype behaviour,
which you'll seeon YouTube comments.
It's actuallya valuable comment,
something that wasworthwhile and interesting
and intriguing.
And if you want to knowmore about these,
go back to the previousepisodes on Boost
aGrams
and the streaming of statsand things like that,
(04:18):
which you could findearlier
in the season in episodes43 and 44.
So we can see,
okay, there's opensources is upon us.
We'reencountering it every day.
How does this actuallyrelate
to valuefor value and why?
Why are they similar?
So I'm going to go overa couple of properties
(04:38):
here, which I have donein my bit of research
over this past week
because I didn'treally know
much aboutthe history of it. And
it's it's
actually prettyfascinating going into it.
And what really helped me
was this documentarycalled Revolution OS,
which was a documentary,and a lot of it
showcases thethe starting of how
(05:01):
people were usingsoftware.
This is basically likethe geeks and the nerds.
And when they werefirst creating software,
it was in this openenvironment.
No one had
passwords on their laptops
and they
because they would just or
on their computers,
I guessyou'd call them back then
and they because there was
no need toeveryone was just
would just contribute.
And even when they didset it up,
(05:22):
one of the guys,Richard Stallman,
who I'll talkmore about shortly,
would just hackinto the database and then
find everyone's passwordand then email
and be like, Hey,just so you know, like
your passwordis blah, blah, blah.
But it's much easier to
just press the into buttonbecause obviously it's
tongue in cheekbecause he's he's saying
saying and showing
(05:42):
how the abilityto share software
just becauseyou have a password
one doesn't mean it'snecessarily secure.
And it's a kind
of a barrier to the ethosof of sharing publicly.
So open source code
and this is just a
reading here
from a little website,open source
code is usually stored
in a public repositoryand shared publicly.
Anyone can accessthe repository
(06:03):
to use the codeindependently
or contributeimprovements to the design
and functionalityof the overall project.
So we can see thatokay, having a password
is not helping, that it's
actually a hindranceto people coming in.
And so there wasthis thing
called the Free Softwaremovement,
which was started bythis guy Richard Stallman.
And free actually inthis case doesn't refer to
(06:25):
price Free is very much
about the libertyto access the code
to change it for anyoneto have access to it.
And if you go and learn
more about the freesoftware movement,
he's kind of
got these principleswhich he lays out
and they're very muchrelated to liberty
and personal choiceand things like this.
And essentially it's theability to change, adapt,
(06:48):
use or not use
without restrictiveIP and licensing.
And so I think coined
this term the copyleftinstead of the copyright,
which is theand this is coming from
that documentary,a, quote,
inalienableright to cooperate
with other peopleand form a community.
And so that was from
this guy,Richard Stallman,
the Free softwareMovement founder.
(07:10):
And I think this isexactly
what is happening withvalues in value music.
For example, if you lookat the adaptability of
of what's happening,
someoneis putting up their music,
for example,and once again, go back to
some of the previousepisodes
where I talked about value
for value musicand how this operates.
So this is going backto episode 45 and 46.
(07:33):
This is where you can see,
okay,someone is putting up
something they've created,
so they'veput in some hardware
and created something
and now they're putting itinto an RSS feed
and basically just saying
if anyone wants to usethis, adapt it,
do what they want to it,they can please
just givesome accreditation.
And this is where it comes
(07:53):
to the licensingsort of aspect,
because with
with this software,open source software,
it usually comeswith a distribution
license and the licenseincludes terms
that define how developerscan use study, modify
and most importantly,distribute the software.
So it's not necessarily
free inthe sense of you can do
whatever you want with it,you can change it,
(08:14):
not give accreditation to
to the personwho has created
or steal it directlyor things like this.
There are a lot of nuanceswith this,
which is exactlywhat is the same with V.
For V, it'sa lot of nuance,
but essentially what I see
is it'svery similar in that
someone puts upa piece of software
source code software,
someone puts upsome music,
other people can see thatadapt it, and so they can
(08:37):
add lines that codeand then they can either
with with some of thelicenses, some of them say
if you change it
enough, you need to
then call itsomething different
so that the original
person is not getting,I guess, tainted with your
with whatyou've changed to it
because you could be
putting malware into it
and they don't want their
name associated with that.
(08:59):
Or you could just be doingminor alterations
to improve some bugs,which is,
you know, a good thing.
Value for value music
if someoneputs the music up
and then I put it into a Vfor V Jace show.
So this is like a value
for value music showwhere I'm
maybe talking over it,
maybe I've done
like a coupleof scratches, maybe I'm
jumping in and outand being like,
(09:20):
Yeah, here comes the bang.
A part 2 to 2.
Obviouslyyou're changing the music.
You're adapting it
because you're addingyour extra audio
on top of it,or perhaps you've done a
remixor something like this,
but we can see, okay, thisis it's the same ethos.
Someone'sputting something up
and just saying, Hey,I've created this thing,
(09:41):
why don't you use it?You can adapt it,
you can do these thingsto it.
And obviously there'sgoing to be some nuances.
And I would actuallyimagine
if value for value musickind of gets as big
as I thinkit's going to get,
there's probably going
to need to besome licenses
and different typesof licenses.
Oh yeah, You can use itin this sense
or you can only use it
if you're including meas a 90% split
(10:04):
or my value block,as is 90% of it.
So I get 90% of any incomecoming in from people
listening to your show,which is it?
Using my music.
So I think this has gota very similar use case of
value for value.
And I do the samewith my show here.
Like I put it out there,
if anyone wants to createclips from it,
(10:24):
if they want to adapt it,do anything
they want to it,that's awesome.
If they want
to rip off the entire show
and then put iton Spotify.
Yeah, okay.
I'm not happywith that person. Hey.
And so this is where it'slike, yeah, there is some
boundary pointsthat can be crossed,
but once again,the nuances, it's the,
the spirit behind it of,
(10:45):
of sharing thingspublicly.
And I think that's a very
nobleambition and something
that actually in the best
in the long term
actually distributesthings, makes it
more widely available.
So another point here,
which we haveis contribution.
So open sourceis all about others
contributingto make it better.
(11:05):
And this can be done on asomewhat voluntary basis
or they can be compensatedfor it.
So, you know,
no financial gain orthey actually have some.
And we can see thisin in various aspects,
various aspects of valuefor value as well.
Alex Gates, for example,he contributed the topic
for this week.
(11:26):
He was the onewho suggested
I do open source softwareor open source
and on the valuefor value show
and how that relatesto value for value.
And you know,
that wasa great suggestion
because I probablywouldn't
have done thatwithout him.
I wouldn'thave done the research
to do this very showwithout him, him
saying that.
And so then lookingat that and then saying,
(11:47):
okay, you know,I do something similar
with the valuefor value splits as well
with this very show.
So if you look into thethe value block for this,
you'll see I've got twowhich are at 1%,
one is for the blue spotby C Dubs
and another is
by the fountain blue spot,which is just
a service that I add on
(12:09):
to this becauseI find it beneficial.
It's surfaceboostagrams
in a waythat I personally can't do
and highlights themin a different way.
And I'm willing
to compensatepeople for that
and they just askthat they get
put into the splits.
And this is very muchhow open
sourcesoftware works as well.
People contribute,
they make things better,and then
(12:30):
they're not trying to
lock down the softwareitself.
Anyonecan get access to it, but
it does take effort,time to learn these things
and you can make iteasier.
Yeah, sure.
I'll cometo your workplace
and I'll help install itfor you.
I'll train up your staff
so they know how
to use the Linuxoperating system or Debian
(12:50):
or whatever it is
that they're running
on their particularcomputers and servers.
And so
I think this aspectof contribution
is very much importantto do
value for value as well.
Someone can help
contribute to this show
in in variousdifferent ways
and I'll talk moreabout that at the end
in this case, we've seenthat Fountain and C Dubs
(13:11):
have done it
through a softwareas a service sort of way.
They've created somethingI could never create.
I don't know how to code,
I don't
know how to do thesethings,
and I'm compensating themfor that.
And then Alex Gates or Sir
Alex Gates has contributed
to this showby giving me a topic
which
I wouldn't have thoughtabout otherwise,
but I'm not going tocompensate for this one.
(13:32):
And so you can kind of seethere's these
these two aspectswhich are very,
very much similarwith them, open source.
And so, yeah, very,very interesting to to see
that kind of parallelthere.
Another oneis transparency,
and you can actually makea better product
when anyone can viewall the bugs messiness
(13:52):
and how the sausage ismade.
And so
in this revolutionarydocumentary
it was talking aboutthis guy
called Eric Rayment,who sort of
honestly is probably like
it's kind of similar to mein that he's
kind of like a little bit
of a philosopherwhilst also
tryingto do practical things.
And so he wrote this
manifesto,I guess you'd call it,
(14:12):
called the Cathedraland the Bazaar,
and it was basically a
a document,a paper that he wrote,
which is sort ofin a book form as well,
talking about how he wasarguing in this, that
by creatingusing open source
and having people
coming into the actual code
(14:32):
itself, you'regetting more eyes on it,
you're getting more peoplelooking at it,
you're getting more peoplefixing it
as compared to a companywith closed software
who only have a limitednumber of developers
and they have to be,you know, they're on a
time schedule.
They're on a pay.
If they don't get paid,they're not
going to be working on it.
And he was justessentially saying
(14:53):
that in the long run,
actually open sourcing
your code does createa better product
because you havemore people doing this.
And I believethe same applies
to to content creation.
When you start having ads
and sponsorsentering the picture,
I think this startsto shift.
I think your productsthat you're creating
becomes diluted.
(15:14):
And this is not a newobservation.
People over
the many years have talkedabout how,
you know, art becomesmainstream
or commercialisedand then it's
it loses
that essence that made itthis underground thing
that was so vibrant,so passionate, so
interesting and unique.
And then itit becomes mainstream.
It becomes, you know,
(15:35):
kind of corrupted
by all of the influencesof people saying,
Oh, you should probably
not talk about thison this show.
You might not want to dothis.
And it's not like itruins it necessarily, but
the misaligned incentives
that we were talking aboutfrom the last episode,
I thinkto start to crop up,
you see on the open source
side of thingsor on the business side
(15:56):
of things, of software,
if something is closedsource,
you tend to get
these monopolieslooking at you, Microsoft
or this lockedin behaviour where you
you offer it to someone
and then it becomesan integral part of the
of the company that isusing the software.
And then you start
not supportingprevious versions.
(16:17):
So they have to upgradeand then you're,
you've got kind of likepoor customer support
because they don't haveany other option.
They have to use you.
So if you only wantto hire
five customersupport people
when you really need ten,well it's like, well,
too bad
you just going to haveto deal with that
company becauseyou're locked in. And
in allof these cases, it's
(16:38):
creating a worse product
for the personwho wants to use it
in the softwareside of things.
And I mean personally,my belief
is that the more ads
you start to addin, the more sponsors,
the more
outside influencesthat you have on your show
probably are going to havethis type of behaviour
(16:59):
where it is lockingyou in, where you are
doing thingsthat I think just create
a worse product.
And so having thistransparency of,
look, this is how I dothe value for value.
So you can see exactly
who is influencing me
and how muchthey're influencing me
because I read outall the boostagrams
(17:20):
and because I acknowledgethe support.
And in this case,if I do start
talking about thisparticular topic,
you know, it's it'sbecause either I want to
or because I've been
influenced in a waywhich you can see it's
the kind of thingshidden behind
the surface, which are the
leads to worse outcomes,I personally believe.
So we've gotthe adaptability,
(17:41):
we've gotthe contribution,
we'vegot the transparency.
And then the far
final onehere was the meritocracy.
And so
only the softwarethat people want
and adopt and adopt
will actually survivelong term.
So just becausesomething is open
source doesn'tmean it's good.
You know that
there's plenty of bugs,there's plenty of things
that make itkind of crappy.
(18:03):
And it's it's very much
if we look at podcasting2.0, for example,
if there wasn'ta desperate need
for from people like mewho wanted to create
a better product,who wanted to
be able to connect
with their audience in ain a more
peer to peer manner,being able to do it
(18:24):
through the actualpodcasting apps themselves
instead of havingto direct them
to go on to Instagram or
go onto Facebookand do this thing
and then connect with methere,
I'm much
it just makesso much more sense
to be able to do itwithin the app.
Why can't we do itthat way?
Okay, well, we don't haveall the infrastructure.
A namespace sets of rulesto for app developers
(18:44):
to be able to do this.
All right, let's let's doit. Let's create it.
And that's exactlywhat Adam
Curry and Dave Jones did.
And you know,
if people didn't wantthat,
it wouldn'thave taken off.
It would have diedon the vine.
Podcasting, too,
when I would havehad 15 shows
and then it wouldhave been like, eh,
nothing's really happeninghere. Okay, All right.
Let's let's call it that.
Instead, what has happenedis there's been a
(19:05):
super vibrant,vibrant community formed.
There's a lot of peopleworking to create apps
to talk about valuefor value.
Me here,
you know,
there's peoplewho are great at code,
there's people
who are greatat advertising,
there's peoplewho are great at finding
hidden podcasts.
The Swedish tricolour,for example,
there's people who aregreat at documentation,
(19:26):
which is very necessaryfor developers
to be able to useall sorts of things.
We can see theso many people
who want to contribute,
who are
willing to contribute,
and it'sthe contribution that
that provides the value,I guess, and
the same sort of thing.
If you have acompany, for example, that
(19:47):
a show.
So let's look at it.
In this case,
there's you've gota company that has created
a service aroundsome open source software.
If the software is not
getting picked up, ifLinux was not being used,
the companies that werecreated back in the day,
I can't remember some ofthem from this Revolution
(20:09):
documentary,
they would have gonenowhere.
They would have
one was called Linux VA,for example.
It had a big stock pricething, it iPod.
And what you couldkind of see was like it
just kind of went downover time.
Now this was probablydo a lot to the the
(20:30):
dotcom bubble burst
that that happenedaround that time.
But there wereother companies
that did IPO redhot for example,
whichstill exists to this day
and is still thriving.
And you know, it isrelated to the marketplace
and not having monopoliesor outside
controlon on a fair market,
which typically tends tolead to to worse outcomes.
(20:53):
So, for example,
on the podcastingside of things,
if you have a showby a company
designedto sell a product,
that's probablygoing to need some outside
source of revenueto keep that show going.
So for example,let's just take Nike
and they've got a podcastrelated
to selling the newest Nikeshoes, the newest Nike
(21:15):
natural brandthat's coming up.
You'reprobably not going to want
to use value for value.
I'm not sure
value for value
will really workfor a show like that
because they've gota very explicit purpose of
of selling you something.
The I guess like thethe show is
it's more of asales device
rather than somethingwhich is designed to
(21:38):
to bring valueto the customers, to the
the peoplelistening to the podcast.
It's it'sactually more designed
to take value from them.
It's trying to get them to
to buythe newest piece of shoe
or the newest shirtor something like that.
And so in that case,it's it's more of a
extractive value.
So it probably needsI'm not sure
(21:59):
value for value would workfor a show like that.
Whereasif you have other shows,
hopefully like this one,which are trying to
providevalue in that sense
and then just askingfor value to be returned,
you know, if,
if I do the showfor ten years and I
it doesn't take off,people aren't
getting value from it.
You know,that's just the market.
(22:20):
That's just like,all right, well, people
actually didn't wantwhat I'm creating here
and they didn'tvalue it enough.
And so the show goes awayand, you know,
there's no there'sno problems with that.
And I have no problemswith the,
you know, the Niketype podcast
who are tryingto sell things.
That's just advertising,that's marketing.
That's, you know, how youget a product out there.
I just don't thinkthat will work
(22:41):
super successfully
or would even work at allwith value for value.
And so when you've got
this kind of meritocracyof the best software,
it's open source,it's out there,
anyone can use itand contribute.
If people don't like thatproject,
they're not going tocontribute.
It dies on the vine,
very similar to a showdoing value for value.
(23:01):
If it's a showwhich is providing value,
it is making thingsbetter.
People will contributeback to that.
There'sno doubt about that.
And it's just how much.
And if that will serve youover time as well,
that kind of meritocracy,I think it will
could almost call itthe free market,
if you want of
value for value is sortof the free market.
(23:21):
If if it's a
if it's a crappy product,no one's listening,
no one wants it,it's going to go away.
And this is where,you know,
the onus is on meto actually
create somethingthat's good.
I do hope thatI create something
which is valuablethat helps people out.
And so yeah, that's
I suppose the four mainaspects that I see for
creating something, the,the ethos that is
(23:43):
matched between valuefor value and open source
before I get ontothe Instagram lounge
and I did want to makeone more point
about the incentivesfor contributing as well
and a little story timehere.
So I do
the minimalist podcastwith my co-host one.
We've been doing thatfor years now
and have you know, we'vegradually
I've basically beenshowing him
(24:04):
about the value for value,about podcasting,
2.0 open source,this sort of thing.
And we always are tryingto come up with new ways
for people
to incentivise peopleto contribute to the show
and to create more valuefor the show.
And he was suggesting,like,
Oh, okay,
what if we do this thing
for in Octoberor Yeah, in October
(24:25):
we do a pay backto listeners.
So if someone boostsin a certain amount,
well then put themin the value
block for the next monthand that way they'll be,
it can be kind of likea game type of deal where
if the morethey contribute,
the more they could get
contributionsfrom the past.
And it's kind of like,
you know,if you look at it
that way, it'salmost leading to the the
the Ponzi economics style,
(24:47):
you know,taking from others
to pay backthe original people.
And I was
when he first suggestedthis, I was
I waskind of off the bat like,
I'm notnot a big fan of that
one because it does havethat sort of feel of the
taking from others to payfor the original people
to then get them to,you know, and I
(25:08):
it a lot of incentivesand gamification is about
just doing things
to make people do things,even if it's
not necessarilyin their best interest
or I mean,I guess you could say,
you know,
actuallyI'll take that back
because who knowswhat's in someone's
best interestif they want to play,
(25:29):
spend their whole lifeplaying video games,
like please go at it.
Just be aware thatthat's what you're doing.
You are spendingyour whole life
playing video games,you know,
5 hours, 10 hoursa game a day.
And I look,I love it as well.
I'm very fascinated by thehistory of Speedrunning.
I watch videos on themall the time.
And you know, there arepeople who will dedicate
(25:52):
thousands ofhours to just playing one
level of a game overand over and over again.
But in this case,I was going,
yeah, I'm not I'm notso sure on that.
I'm not too happyabout that.
And I couldn't exactly
say whyit was what in particular
that that made me go,
Yeah,but when I was thinking
about this more,I realised what it was.
And so I'mgoing to actually
(26:14):
give a suggestion here
of some learning A
I've taken from a podcastcalled
Volunteer Technologist
Spike Guycalled Gene Liberman,
and if you ever seenboosting around
it's name is Gene Bean
and he's got a fewepisodes out now, I think
eight and he's got onecoming out pretty soon
with Mitch Downey,who is from Pod verse
(26:35):
one of the appsI talk about regularly,
who pod verseactually is open source.
And he the Gene actuallysent me that interview
a little bit beforeit was released.
Very much appreciateit for him to do that and
what I've taken away fromlistening to his show.
And so his is all aboutvolunteer technologists.
(26:55):
It's peoplevolunteering their time to
create technologyto help other people out.
And so in this case,
he was talking abouthow Mitch with Pod Verses
was really interestedin the accessibility
aspect of the podversus app of creating it
so that it's helpfulfor people
who do have accessibilityproblems, whether that be
(27:18):
trouble seeing,
whether that be troublehearing,
whether that be trouble,
you know, in any of thosesort of cases.
So in this case,
this is why
transcripts were
so important for for him
and integratingthat into pod verse.
And in generalthese people are not
motivated by money.
If you look atwhat's actually going on,
why are they doingthese things?
Why are they creating,
(27:39):
volunteering their time
and they're not gettingcompensated?
Obviously,that's the the whole
aspect of volunteering.
And so when it comesto the incentives
for contribution,for open, open source,
it's it's typicallynot money.
It's orI would say it's probably,
you know, 4% of peoplecontribute to a show,
(28:00):
probably 96% of peoplewill contribute to
open source
or to a show, not for anyfinancial aspect at all.
So in this case,they're writing code.
They're doing it because
they want this thingto succeed.
And sure,they'll do some hours
outside of it, though
they'll share itwith their friends.
(28:20):
They will helpa developer out.
They'll be on the betatesting
like I am for Fountain,
and they will jointhe communities,
they will participate,they'll do
all of these things
where it's there's nothingfinancial related to it.
And if there is, it's
like, Whoa,that was unexpected.
I didn't I didn't knowthat would happen.
(28:41):
And very muchthe same, I think, for
for people contributingto a show
that they don't
want to get paidback in return,
if someone's contributingto this very show,
they're not contributingso that they can
then get some moneyback in return.
They're contributingso that I can read
out theirname so that they
feel good about
contributing toto something of value.
(29:04):
Because I am puttingin a whole ton of work of
watchingthese documentaries,
creating the resources,doing all the links,
the chapters,all of that sort of stuff.
And it's they, they,they just, you know,
they just wantthe name read out.
They just want to feelgood for themselves.
They just want
to create a connectionwith me
because I'm awesomeor you're nice.
(29:26):
And so this is where I waslike, okay,
incentives wise as well.
It's probablynot the best for,
okay, let's
if you if you contributeto this show,
you'regoing to get this thing.
And look,
we do do thatfor the mere mortals,
which this show isconsidered part of.
If you contribute
more than 100,000 sets,
(29:46):
we will send youa miyamoto's t shirt.
But it's like,
you know that that's justbasically an equivalency
because 100,000 sets atthe moment
is about 40 AUD,
which is about
how much the shirts costin the first place.
So it's not like you're,
you're comingout of this with anything
in a financial aspect,but you do have, you know,
(30:09):
my appreciation.
I send you a notenow I send, you know,
this shirt as well is ais a confirmation of that.
You have contributed.
It's it's like,you know, limited edition.
So you get that aspectas well.
There'sall sorts of reasons
why people contributeand most of it
is not related to money.
So when you thinkabout the open source
(30:29):
or whether you think about
value for value,it is important to
to have a deepthink about, okay,
why is someone actuallycontributing to this show?
Is it
because they want
a financial return andsome point in the future?
No, it's probably not.
It's probablyfor other reasons
and it's best to highlight
those reasonsand make them more
availableand widely known.
(30:49):
So that was very,very cool.
I'm going to nowjump onto the Boosta
Gram Loungebefore we start talking
about some tips andother things at the end.
Welcometo the Value for Value.
Boostagram Lounge.
So the Boostagram Loungefor everyone
(31:10):
who is wonderingis the section where
I read out the messagesfor people
who have contributed
to the show in ain a monetary form
and thank them very muchfor that.
It's the best way to dothis is via a podcasting
2.0 app, and today
I'll reallyhighlight podcast
because podcast is opensource
and you can go
contribute to podcastsand you can also
(31:31):
contribute to this showby sending in a boost.
A boost is a messagethat you send
within the actual app,
very muchlike how you would send
a commentson a YouTube video.
And when you
send that message,it comes directly to me
becauseall of the infrastructure
and all things like thatare set up with it
and you can choose anamount to help support it.
(31:52):
So we use Satoshisat this moment
and there's all sortsof fun things
you can dowith the numerology,
as you will seein the Graham numerology
link, which I'll also putinto the show notes.
And so you can do thingslike like Ruby did
last weekwith the 1770, 70,776,
(32:13):
which is a big libertyboost
and a whole bunchof people have contributed
today.
So I can see right offthe get go here
that SamSethi was streaming
and a lot of paymentswould say
some somewhat coming
throughwith this boostagram.
So very muchappreciated for that.
Thank you very much.And also William Kenny.
So that was really,really cool.
And thenthe only other one
I've actually gotten fromthis week
(32:34):
was from the God casterhimself, Steve Webb.
Another episode Carand keep It Up.
17,777So almost almost a big
libertyboost will count that
as one or two a stripe,a boost with an extra one
at the front of it.
And he sent thatin using fountain
and you can actually gocheck out an episode
(32:57):
I did talking about
one of his showscalled Life Spring Media
in season two,which was episode number.
Oh, let me just bringthis up here in my upload.
It shows season to episodenumber 22 last spring,
Family Audio Bible.
So very much appreciated.
(33:18):
Thank you. Steve and Steve
obviously enjoyedlast week's episode,
which was all abouthow does this time go
so quickly?
What was lastweek's episode about?
Last week's
episode was aboutthe incentives of hosting
and how everyoneneeds to win.
So thank you very much,Steve, for that.
Once again,
(33:38):
you can contributein very many ways,
and it's not just viaBoostagrams, but
I really do appreciatewhen those come in
and Steve has takenanother step towards
getting that that nicefancy Miyamoto shirt.
So 100,000 setsis the limit for that.
So if you want itand there's only
19 of them left.
So yeah, just got to,
got to recognisethose things are going
(34:00):
to go quick.
So I am going to go onto my little tip
section here and I guesswhat on the meta level,
what is the lesson totake away from this? And
for me it was
it's really worthwhilefocusing on the talent
aspect of the Three T's,
the time, talentand treasure and
(34:22):
people are so diverse thatthey just can contribute
in ways and see thingsthat I can't.
They dothings differently.
And, you know,
I wouldn't have lookedinto open source history
without that suggestionfrom from Sara.
Alex gets more eyeballs
and the code makes it moresecure.
More is on this podcast
will actuallymake it better
because people will
(34:42):
contributein various different ways.
They might have audio
stuffthat they can hear about.
They might
give me more suggestions,they might tell me
hiring you, sayingI'm a little bit
or you're being tooself-deprecating.
You need to be morearrogant,
you need todo these things.
So andI would take them in.
Some of those suggestionswill be helpful.
Some of them might not.
And that's okay.
(35:03):
That's the whole aspectof of the talent
really coming inbecause other people
can seeand do things differently.
And so
if you're checking outyour screen now,
it's going to look likea little gobble
of numbers or lettersand strings of lists.
And it's like,what the hell is this?
Well,this is the podcasting
2.0 teamtaken from the GitHub.
(35:25):
And this is a listof everyone
who has contributedto podcasting
to point out in some wayor at least
have done somethingwhich has made them worth
while ofof joining the list.
Because,I mean, there's probably
honestly a lot more peoplethan what is on here.
And it's just so hardto keep up
with everyone who has.
And so
(35:45):
if you gothrough that list
and you won't be ableto do it
on the on the screen here
because there's probably,I don't know,
100 differentnames more than that.
And allof these different people
will contributedifferent things.
They'll be people who arepodcast is on here.
There's poddevelopers, there's people
from the hosting sideof the business.
There's peoplewho are more interested
(36:06):
in databasesand aggregation
is obviously
and Adam Curry's ofThe World is the Dave
Jones is the these peoplewho are the kind of core
lynchpins of it,but everyone contributes.
Everyoneis doing something.
And so if you've gota show, if you've got a
somethingthat you're creating,
whether it be digital art,
(36:27):
whether it be documentary
it's worth focusing on,
what can
other people contributeand how can
they contribute in a way
which I personally can'tdo, which whether it be
because of personalitythings, whether
because of where they livein the world,
whether it bebecause they've spent,
you know, decades
focusing on
(36:47):
just the aspect
of photographyor something
like this, it's alwaysworth exploring how can I
utilise the talents and,and not only do that,
but find a way for peopleto contribute
with their talents
that really improvethe show or improve
the end product of theart that I'm creating. And
(37:09):
I think that's reallyworthwhile focusing on the
the second T of the timetalent and treasure,
because it's,
it's a huge aspectof, for example,
what makes no agendaso great.
They have people who are
doctors, physicists,chemists
working in thesedifferent companies
which can addmedia sources,
which you won't hear.
(37:30):
And it's likethe boots on the ground.
And that's just oneexample of how
you can createa really successful show
based around
other peopleare sending into you,
because that is a lotof how they get
the news stories
that they talk about on onNo Agenda.
So very, very cool.
The app and servicehighlight
that I wanted to do
this week was actuallywant to recommend
(37:50):
a few podcastson top of genes as well.
So what is also really
sparked my interestin open source and,
and learning moreabout how similar it is
to value for valuewas a lot of the Jupiter
broadcasting showsthe suite they have
and they'll definitelygive you a taste
of that viadifferent mechanisms.
So there'sthe code of radio
the self-hostedthere's Linux unplugged.
(38:13):
There used to be Linuxaction show.
I can't rememberif that still there.
Chris Fischerhas been in the world
of open source for decades
and not only that, he'sbeen podcasting about it
for decades.
And so
if you want to knowmore about open source,
he's like
a lifelong proponentof this model, basically,
(38:34):
and he has alsobeen recently especially
getting very hardinto the value for value
and how that can helphis show survive
during a time where it isharder for advertising.
Money has been drying upover this
last year and a bit.
So he obviously seesthe link between those two
and howit is so important.
(38:57):
And so if you want to knowmore about that, I would
just recommend checkingout some of those shows.
Jupiter Broadcasting.
And also I had a chatwith him on episode
90 of The Mere Mortals,so gives you an idea
of some of what
it's like to embody
the ethos of open sourceand be for
and listen to iton podcast
because it's opensource as well.
(39:17):
So that is it.
Almost to the end of thisepisode, the fast last
and final thing to do hereis the V4 V section.
Who am I going to give 15%of this episode to?
Well, I'm going to give itto someone who I am
is kind of unnamed,I guess.
So, you know,
and that'sthat's the thing with open
source and
value for value, there's
(39:38):
these people who have donethese amazing things
behind the surface,which you just don't
realise is as much likehow much they contributed,
how muchthey have helped out.
And so todayI'm going to give 15%
to Stephen Crowder,
who I believe
does most, if not all, ofthe documentation for the
podcast index GitHub. And
(39:58):
that's just really, really
important workbecause without the
putting of codeinto language of
this is what this is,this is what that is
the kind of fake newsthat guides is it's so
hard, you know,
this is kind of
what this show is trying
to do is give you a guideto value for value and
how it can beuseful for you
(40:20):
no matter how you'recreating digital content
and I think that he doesa crazy amount of work,
and I hope this little bitthat I'm contributing
back to him
just just goes to showthat sometimes things
which perhaps might seem
unnoticed
are actually noticed,but they might not
be monetarily rewarded.
(40:40):
And in this case, I dowant to reward him for his
his effort, everythingthat is he's done so
very, very muchappreciated for that.
The last aspect here
I'll give youis the three TS.
So the timetalent and treasure,
what can you do to helpcontribute
to this showto make it better?
Well, obviously
sharing the episodewith the digital creator,
but I also reallyappreciate
(41:02):
if you come and join melive.
That'sprobably the most fun.
Last week
we we had a couple ofpeople in the Memories
Discord Chat
which was
one and Blueberry and it'sjust a nice environment.
So I go live on a 10 a.m.
Australian EasternStandard Time,
which is midnight of UTCon that kind of border
(41:24):
between Tuesdayand Wednesday.
So Tuesday, midnight,I guess you'd call it.
And yet if youif you want to join me,
I'm liveon all of the apps
you get a notification
pod verse on fountainthose sort of things
if you havethe notifications set up
and podfans is another great one.
Kara Costa, podcast guruAll of those
will give you accessto this live episode here.
(41:48):
So yeah,
I would
reallyappreciate your time
if you, if you are awakeand available
to join mefor that talent.
Well,you've got to let me know,
is there anything I can do
to make this show better?What annoys you?
What resources are similarto the eith up or
overlap of these?
Any book recommendationsyou would take?
I really want to readthat one
about the cathedraland and the bazaar.
(42:08):
I think that that would be
really helpfulfor for me to do
and yeah I would
I would love to receivesome of your talent.
What are aspects of valuefor value
that I'm not talkingabout enough.
Knowingthese things is very,
very important to,
to making this show better
and to to spreading theword of value for value.
And then the finalone here is the treasure.
(42:28):
You've got three options.
The most preferred versionis using podcasting
2.0 app,
new podcast app ask.com.
If you want tocheck that out.
And in those apps youget so much more benefits.
I've got the chaptersin there, I've got links
for all of these thingsthat I'm talking about.
So there is a YouTubelink to the Revolution
(42:49):
OS documentary,for example.
If you click on thatchapter
and put transcriptsin there, there's all
the funding tag,there's all sorts of ways
where you geta better experience
on these app,
the live, you know, it'sit's worth checking out
some of one of these appsjust to to experience
(43:10):
all of the coolthings that are going on.
And I will just give
another shout out hereto pod verse
I have two for thisepisode so open source
what can I do?
Another aspect is
you can go to the podcastindex website
or even directly to meat KYRAN at get,
I'll be dot
com if you want to justcontribute in that manner.
(43:32):
And so if you go tothe podcast index website,
for example,
you will be able to
acknowledgeall the splits,
so you will be able
to send itto Stephen Crater as well,
which is very muchappreciated
and I'm sure he wouldappreciate that as well.
But yeah, it's that'sone way of doing it.
And then the last one
is via the PayPal,
which is down in the linksbelow,
(43:54):
and you can send in PayPaldirectly.
To me,
that'smore of a contribution
to the mere mortalsas a whole.
But yeah, it is very muchappreciated.
This show does createa lot of time
that will cost mea lot of time
to research these things.
It does cost mea lot of effort
to get intoall of the nooks
and cranniesto really create my notes,
to spend all the timedoing this.
(44:14):
So contributing back to
it is very muchappreciated.
And so we're going toleave it there for today.
That's another value forvalue episode in the bag.
Thank you very muchfor joining me.
There's probably about
four episodesleft of this season and
then I will probablyhave a short break
and then come backwith another season
(44:35):
shortly afterwards.
But yep,four more seasons,
four more episodes toto contribute to this show
to look forwardto, to get excited
next week
I'm going to be
going all over the caseexemple of my own stats
about is value for valueactually working?
You've talked about itso much.
Khan but is itactually having an impact?
And so I will show youhow it actually is.
(44:57):
So to be to be continuednext week's episode. So.
Chao for now, Kyrin out.
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