Ep. 11: How veterans can get involved in local government

Episode 11 explores how veterans can get involved in local government. Local government decisions often have a more direct impact on daily life than those at the state or federal level. We begin (1:24) with Dr. Shawn Healy, Senior Director of Policy and Advocacy at iCivics, who addresses the question, "What are our responsibilities as citizens?" (5:55). Next, Navy veteran Mike Cantwell discusses how veterans can run for local office. Finally, Garrett Cathcart, an Army veteran and executive director of More Perfect Union, shares how veterans and their families can strengthen communities through service and leadership. 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Vetted Conversations Podcast,
where we delve deep into thefoundations, workings, and
current challenges to theAmerican way of self-governance.
In today's confusing world, it'smore important than ever to
understand how our governmentworks and how we, as citizens,
can actively participate in thediscussion, to safeguard our
liberties, and continue freedom.
Our mission is to ensure you,our listeners, have the

(00:22):
knowledge and insights needed tobecome more informed and engaged
citizens and active members ofyour communities.
So let's get into it.
Hello, everybody.
Part of our mission here is tohelp increase our collective
understanding of civics, namelyour rights and perhaps more

(00:42):
importantly, ourresponsibilities to each other
as citizens in a free society.
Based on your feedback fromseason one, we are adding a
short civics discussion to eachepisode in season two to help
better explain how ourgovernment is organized and how
it is designed to work so thatwe can all more effectively
engage with our elected andappointed officials and help
create a more perfect union.

(01:02):
Joining us today is Dr.
Sean Healy, the Civics expertand the senior director for
policy and advocacy at iCivics.
iCivics is our nation's leadingnonprofit civic education
organization whose mission is toensure the practice of democracy
is learned by each newgeneration.
Sean, it's so good to have youback to educate us today.
Here's our question for today'sepisode.

(01:23):
We hear a lot of talk on thenews and on news shows about our
rights as citizens.
But what are ourresponsibilities as citizens of
the United States?

SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
I think this answer is a little more subjective.
Our responsibilities are reallynot formally defined, other
than, of course, we have aresponsibility to obey the laws,
uh to file and pay taxes, etcetera.
Um, but but uh since you asked,uh I'll I'll give you a
subjective answer.
I think one, we have aresponsibility to vote regularly

(01:56):
uh in elections, and not justevery four years in presidential
cycles.
Uh I would argue the mostimpactful elections are local
elections, and unfortunately,they have some of the lowest
turnout.
So uh to be regular participantsin in uh voting, and then I
always tell my students, uhgovernance happens between
elections, right?
And often as citizens, we we uhexercise our right to vote, and

(02:20):
then we kind of kind of sit outthe process by which uh policy
is made, and of course, whetherour candidates win or lose, uh
the winners represent us, right?
Represent all of us.
And I I think we have anobligation to be engaged in that
process.
Um, so uh what does that mean?
Um well I think on a on uh oneimportant level, it's it's

(02:42):
paying attention, right, towhat's going on uh in
government.
And I think the best way to dothat is is to be a regular
follower of the news.
And uh one one great thing inthe the current context is we
have more access to informationthan ever before.
And it's really critical that wecultivate uh a diverse media
diet, right?

(03:03):
Uh where we're not just uhconsuming uh information that uh
confirms our worldview, but butprobably information that
challenges our worldview, and Ithink to to do our very best to
seek out objective informationabout uh what's what's going on
in our government.
Um it's important we be engagedin our community.
So volunteering uh is criticalto that end.

(03:26):
Uh that we be good neighbors, weexchange favors with our
neighbors, uh, that we work withour neighbors to solve problems
uh in communities, uh, toexercise uh our freedom of
petition, right?
Which is uh, I think the mostunderappreciated uh freedom in
the First Amendment uh to ourconstitution, to contact
legislative officials, tocontact uh administrative

(03:48):
officials, to to address issuesthat are important uh personal
concern to us and and hopefullyalso to the broader community,
and then to engage in thesedebates.
In fact, I I like to say Americais a debate, uh and uh but to do
so in and follow the norms ofcivil discourse.
So we can we can disagreevehemently about the issues, but

(04:10):
but let's be uh respectful uh ofone another.
So those are those are just someexamples I see as
responsibilities of uh ofcitizens.
Of course, they're uh they're uhresponsibilities and skills that
need to be taught.
So these are important uh civicskills, civic behaviors, uh that
that I think we need to teachand to practice regularly.

SPEAKER_03 (04:31):
I love it because it's a great reminder that
before our ancestors werecitizens, they were subjects of
the King of the Island.
And told what to do, right?
So I think you know, if you wantto choose your own course and
direct the own, um direct thefuture of the country, then that
takes involvement, andinvolvement takes making good
decisions, and making gooddecisions takes education and

(04:53):
and sound information, whichwhich talks about like how
important things like publiceducation and libraries and a
free press were to the foundersof the country.
So, you know, in order for us tomake good decisions as citizens,
we need good information uponwhich to do that, and you've
made a great case uh for what weshould do or aspire to be uh as
citizens of the United States.

(05:13):
Thank you for that.
One of the main themes at FetOur Democracy Podcast is that
democracy isn't a spectatorsport.
In our system, we the people arethe final check on power.
And as one of my favoriteauthors, Hunter S.
Thompson, once said, in ademocracy, you gotta be a
player.
We have a guest today in studiowho exemplifies this activity at

(05:37):
the local level, and that isMike Cantwell.
Mike is a Navy veteran who alsouh spent some time over at the
National Geospatial Agency, butmore importantly, I think, in in
post-military life, he has beenextremely active in his local
community in an independent andnonpartisan way.
So I just wanted to welcome Miketo the show today.

SPEAKER_05 (05:55):
Hey, thanks a lot, Joe.
Uh, love everything you're doingwith uh Vet the Vote.

SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Thanks.
No, it's it's good to have youhere and good to have um
Veterans for for All Americans.
I know you're affiliated withthat program, um, as part of the
Vet the Vote Coalition for 2024.
So we had Todd and Eric aroundthe show uh recently.
Hey, um one thing I'd like tostart by asking you is like,
what did you do for the Navy andwhat was your proudest moment?

SPEAKER_05 (06:20):
Yeah, so um my father was in the Air Force and
uh my his last duty station wasnear the Naval Academy.
So I was always attracted toservice and um and going to the
Naval Academy.
Um I graduated in 1987 andserved aboard uh two warships
before I uh affiliated with theNavy Reserves.

(06:42):
And um I stayed with thereserves until retiring in 2015.
But I really um I reallyestablished roots in Arlington,
Virginia.
So I've been living in Arlingtonsince um about uh 1993, and um
living with my wife and threechildren, uh we moved here, and

(07:04):
I just started getting involvedin the normal things you get
involved in.
I did a lot of youth uh sportscoaching, uh baseball, flag
football, soccer, uh softball.
Um, and then I I just was reallyattracted to you know, what can
I do to help my community?
So I joined my local civicassociation here in Arlington.

(07:26):
We have about 30 different umyou know neighborhood or civic
associations.
Uh so I was on the on theexecutive committee for a while,
and then the president steppeddown and I raised my hand and
said, Hey, I I want to do this.
So I've been the uh president ofthe Yorktown Civic Associ
Association for about 10 yearsnow.
So we do things like um youknow, we figure out what's going

(07:49):
on in our community.
Sometimes we meet with our localelected leaders, and sometimes
we write letters, sometimes wespeak in front of the Arlington
County Board, and just um reallyget involved at the really,
really local level.
So citizens will stop by.
I live right on a pretty mainroad here in Arlington, and I'll
be pulling weeds in the frontyard, and they'll stop by and

(08:10):
say, uh, hey Mike, we got areally big problem with uh you
know speeding through theneighborhood or graffiti or hey,
the school says they're gonnaexpand.
What about parking?
Um, and so I meet with myexecutive committee, we come up
with various uh policypositions, and then we write

(08:31):
letters and go to the ArlingtonCounty Board.
So I've I've really found that Ireally like it, and um and I'm
really pretty good at it.
So uh I really encourage otherveterans to consider uh serving
at their local level.

SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
Awesome.
No, that that's uh, you know, Ithink part of you know
understanding civics and ourrights and responsibilities as
citizens is how to uh petitionour elected officials, right?
You know, it's written into theConstitution that that's that's
uh a right of all Americans andfreedom of assembly being
another one.
Uh what from your militarybackground kind of led you in

(09:08):
that direction?
Like, was there anything thatyou can think of that that made
you want to serve your communityagain?

SPEAKER_05 (09:15):
Well, it probably goes back a little bit to my
childhood.
I mean, I just distinctlyremember my parents, you know,
it'd be a little bit annoyingbecause they'd want to watch
both the 630 news and the 730news, and I couldn't watch my
uh, you know, Hogan's Heroes orsome of the other reruns and
everything.
Um, but my parents were alwaysup on current events and civic
affairs.

(09:36):
Um and just uh I would say beingin service, being being in the
mil, you know, the NavalAcademy, in the military, um,
it's it's like part of your DNA.
You want you want to give back.
Um, and then just the leadershipabilities, um, being able to
form a coalition, being able touh make things happen, being

(09:57):
able to inspire others to act umis something that we all learn
in the military, and and I I Ithink I was pretty effective at
it.

SPEAKER_03 (10:07):
Yeah, no, and that that speaks to me as well.
I think one of the you know thestrengths of military service is
how as an institution, it takespeople from all over the
country, geographic regions, allwalks of life, and it's one
place where I see people at amassive scale setting apart
their differences and focusingon a common goal of supporting
and defending our constitution.

(10:28):
So um, you know, that makes alot of sense to me.
But the other thing that yousaid uh about getting involved
at the local level, um, youknow, I think is really
important because a lot ofveterans, you know, decry the
military-civilan gap.
It's just kind of, you know,they're like, oh, you know,
America, we've been at war fortwo decades and people don't
understand us or our experience.

(10:48):
And rather than commiseratingwith them, one of the first
things I like to do is kind ofturn that around a little bit
and be like, hey, if if if youfeel like there's a gap, what
steps have you taken towardsyour community?
And that usually gives them alittle bit of pause to think
because I'm like, if you'rewaiting for them to come to you,
you're gonna be waiting a longdamn time.
So if you're looking for tribe,you're looking for connection,
that's up to you.

(11:09):
What do you think about that?
I mean, what are your what areyour experiences with with
veterans transitioning out ofthe military and then trying to
find that same sense of purposeand belonging uh in the local
community?

SPEAKER_05 (11:20):
Well, first of all, I would start with your local
veteran service organization.
Um I'm very involved in my localVFW.
It's a great, we have a greatsense of community.
I I host a monthly um uhJeopardy style trivia night
that's a whole bunch of fun.
People in the local neighborhoodcome in.
I mean, we you know we bringthem in as guests.

(11:42):
Uh, it's a great time.
Um, but also petitioning localelected officials.
I noticed that we don't we don'thave a a parade here in
Arlington for Fourth of July orfor Memorial Day.
Um, I've never seen one of theArlington County Board members
attend any of any of thecommemoration events in

(12:02):
Arlington, which is is reallyjust you know you know shocking
in a certain way.
I've never seen them attend thewreath laying ceremony at
Arlington National Cemetery.
Um, you know, yeah, maybe theycouldn't be with the president
doing it, but they couldprobably be in the third row in
the background, um, especiallywhen we have a president of the

(12:24):
same party.
So I think I've made a littlebit of inroads there.
We have we have some new countyboard members who have heard my
pleas for this and have shown upuh while they were campaigning
at a wreath laying ceremony umhere in Arlington.
So hopefully we'll make a littlebit of change and and get the

(12:44):
elected officials to participatein some of these events.

SPEAKER_03 (12:48):
Yeah, no, and that makes sense.
And and you know, some of myfondest memories since departing
the military in the civilianspace have been, you know, where
my local town was like, hey, canyou come and give this speech
for Memorial Day this year orVeterans Day?
Um, and that was kind of a funway to engage people and also
um, you know, get to know thepeople who live around you a

(13:08):
little bit better.

SPEAKER_05 (13:09):
Um, you may for be familiar with uh in this area of
uh wreaths across America.
So it's a fantastic event inearly December where um tens of
thousands of wreaths are laid atArlington National Cemetery.
And I've been participating inthat for several years.
It's it's a wonderful event, andthey have these at all the

(13:31):
national cemeteries throughoutthe country.
But shouldn't an ArlingtonCounty board member be
participating in that also andtaking a few pictures and
putting it on their socialmedia?
To me, those are you knowminimum things that they can do
that doesn't cost them a dime,just a maybe a few hours of
their time, right?
So uh hopefully some of themwill see this and uh be inspired

(13:53):
to participate in some of theseevents.

SPEAKER_03 (13:54):
Yeah, it reminds me of a saying we had in in the
Marines was like you show youyou show what's important as a
leader by where you put yourbody, right?
Where do you show up?
So I think you know that'sthat's a good good reminder for
anyone um serving in electedoffice today.
When we talk about running foroffice, and I know you ran and
ran as an independent, I want togo into that a little bit

(14:15):
because when you know in themilitary, kind of discussing
partisan politics is is just notdone.
It's kind of unseemly umdefinitely looked down upon.
At least that was my experiencein the Marine Corps, you know,
we had a saying if your troopsknow your politics, then you're
you're failing as a leader.
So um, you know, I think a lotof that carries over with
veterans into civilian lifewhere you know some of us have a

(14:37):
healthy distrust of people whowant that type of power.
Uh some of us just um have anick factor when it comes to like
the partisan infighting.
Um but when we look at the locallevel, right?
Like I'm talking county, town,and and on down, um, most of
those places, mostmunicipalities are not partisan

(14:58):
offices, right?
So can you talk to me a littlebit about that?
Because I think if more veteransknew that um you didn't have to
run as a Republican or Democratfor these offices, they might be
more likely to get involved.
And I just want to take yourthoughts on that.

SPEAKER_05 (15:13):
So, under current Virginia law, and I think this
is probably the same throughoutthe country, um local offices
are by law nonpartisan.
And what that means is that yourname appears on the ballot, and
there is no I, D, or R or G nextto your name.
Um and uh they can still havesome sort of primaries or caucus

(15:38):
or something to determine whothe party nominee is, but on
that general election ballot, umyour party affiliation will not
appear.
So once I learned that and Ireally studied the hatch act,
because at the time I was afederal government employee in
the intelligence community, andthe hatch act says that's even
an extra, extra layer of youknow being careful on what you

(16:01):
do.
So I contacted the hatch peopleand I said, Look, I'm really
thinking about running forArlington County Board as an
independent.
And I read the Hatch Act.
I think I'm good on this, butyou can you please write me a
letter saying that I'm withinthe law, you know, kind of my
get out of jail free uh card,right?
So they weren't they they wrotethis wonderful, you know, legal

(16:24):
opinion with you know, sub, youknow, all the all the legal ease
that you would say, like, yep,you can run for Arlington County
Board as an independent.
There's nothing stopping you.
You know, the only things youcan't do is you can't solicit
your employees for money and youcan't uh you know do various
things.
I'm like, yep, I'm all good withthat, right?

SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
And for for the audience out there who might be
unfamiliar with the Hatch Act,could you just give us a couple
sentences about like what Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (16:48):
Um by the way, I'm a huge fan of the Hatch Act.
Um so basically it says that umthat federal government
employees cannot engage inpartisan political activities,
and they define what thesepartisan political activities
are.
So holding fundraisers, uh, youknow, what you say, what you do

(17:09):
online.
And it usually will prevent afederal government employee from
running for a partisan office.
So you know, you can't have afederal government employee for
running for U.S.
Senate or for president.
You can't even have them run forstate uh delegate or state
senator, because as you probablyknow, is that all election laws

(17:32):
are run from the state, right?
Um not run federally.
And but uh so so but you'reusually pretty good, even if
you're a federal governmentemployee, that you can run for
local office as long as it'snon-partisan uh local office.
But if it's a you know, it'sbeen around for a long time, and
um unfortunately there arepoliticians who violate it uh

(17:54):
frequently, and um, I do thinkit needs to be updated a little
bit for that.

SPEAKER_03 (17:59):
Yeah, but but the positions that you're talking
about, like county board ofcommissioners, mayor, treasurer,
registrar, dog catcher, right?
Like these are like local umpositions that really, maybe
more than state or federalpositions, affect the daily
lives of the people that live inthat town more than anything.

SPEAKER_05 (18:19):
Yeah, and let me tell you a little bit about my
decision to run and then alittle bit about my campaign.
So here I was, I'm I'm reallyactive in my community.
I'm the president of theYorktown Civic Association,
which is a geographical placewithin Arlington.
I I represent approximately athousand households in this uh
geographic area.
And um and and and I just feltthat I had a good feel for what

(18:43):
the citizens of this area caredabout.
And so we had an incumbentDemocrat, we had kind of a
right-leaning independent, andthen kind of a left-leaning
independent.
So it was kind of a little bitbizarre because we had one
Democrat and three independentsrunning.
And um, and then I ran I dideverything you need to do to run
a successful campaign.

(19:04):
I mean, I I I you know did myfriends and family phone calls
and emails saying, hey, can youdonate some money to my
campaign?
I, you know, did yard signs, Idid flyers, um, but the and then
I did a lot of debates.
Um, so we had six debates duringthis time.
Wow.
And you know, I had a website,did all the um getting enough

(19:28):
signatures to run.
So the bar is pretty low inArlington.
I needed to get 125 signaturesto get my name on the ballot.
That's not unreasonable.
Some places around the countryare completely unreasonable for
independent candidates or otherthird party candidates.
That's something that hopefullythe democracy movement can help

(19:48):
and everything.

SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
Um so if in some communities what you're telling
me is if if you run as anindependent, then you have to
get way more signatures than youdo if you're affiliated with

SPEAKER_05 (20:00):
It is shocking in some parts of the country the
barriers to entry forindependent or third party
candidates.
It's um, you know, parties havetheir own nomination methods,
but in my opinion, it should bereasonable, easy for anyone to
run for political office inAmerica, is is how I feel.

SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
And again, those are more like the state and on up
positions typically.

SPEAKER_05 (20:27):
They are, but it can even go down to the lower level
where they just raise thebarrier so high.
And um, yeah, it's just really,really bad.
But you know, again, I reallyhope people reach out to me if
they want to run as anindependent and have any
questions.
Um, I'm available for that.
And um, so I it was really a Imean, I really enjoyed it, first

(20:48):
of all.
I love talking to, you know,knocking on doors is the is the
is the is the greatest thing.
It's great about America, youknow, listening to people's
concerns or what they careabout.
And here's another thing that Ithink is really important for
your listeners to is that ifyou're running as a Republican,
you are given a list from yourparty on the p on the doors you

(21:13):
should knock, right?
They only care about youknocking on Republican doors.
So you will literally get a listof addresses and you'll you'll
skip this house, you'll skipthat house.
Um because they don't care ifthat you they don't want you to
talk to independents ordemocrats.
And I'm I'm like, this is crazy.

(21:35):
Um, I would go to a neighborhoodwith my flyers and I would knock
on every door, one after theother after the other, right?
Yeah, because and and when Iwould go to a farmer's market or
something, I didn't ask peopleif they're a Republican or a
Democrat.
I asked you, asked them if theyresided in Arlington, right?
So they were a registered voter.
So I think we need to get backto that where anyone running for

(21:59):
public office is talking to allvoters, not just voters in their
party.

SPEAKER_03 (22:05):
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I wonder if the the D side doesthe same thing.
Oh, absolutely.
They totally do.

SPEAKER_04 (22:11):
Yeah.
Totally do.

SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
Um so so if like where do I get started?
Like if if I'm out herelistening and I'm like, you know
what, um, Mike's right, maybe Ishould look into public service
in my community.
What's the first step?

SPEAKER_05 (22:25):
Well, first of all, get get involved in in
everything at your local level.
I I just I received two emailstoday because I'm the president
of the Yorktown CivicAssociation.
They they are begging people tojoin committees and commissions,
right?

SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (22:38):
So you got your planning committee, you have
your you know, public servicecommittee, you have your police
oversight committee, um, andthey you know they can't find
citizens to do it.
Yes, it takes time out of yourday.
It's you know, but it's really,really important work.
Uh, zoning, um, uh pedestriansafety, transportation, these

(22:59):
are all committees that mostlocal governments have.
So I would start start withthat.
Is there is there a civicassociation that you know
similar to what I have?
Are there other things?
Dip your toe in the water withsome of those before you run for
office.
Because let's be frank, there'sa there's a little bit of an ego
factor of people running foroffice.

(23:21):
Um and that there are and thenthere are some like crazy
reasons like somebody's a realestate agent and they know if
they get their name on theballot, it'll help them get
business or something like that.
You don't want to be thatperson, right?
Right, right.
And and then there are somemilitary people who run for
Senate or something, and theyhave zero experience running for

(23:43):
lower-level elected office, ormore importantly, serving in
lower-level elected office.
So so um, but last year I did uhform an organization called
Independence for America, andanybody can Google it online,
and and I'm all about tellingthe stories of local and state
independent candidates, and andalso helping independent

(24:06):
candidates uh running foroffice.
So uh I do think it's reallyimportant to hear the stories of
people who ran, won, and are nowserving.
And then there are many of thesepeople are veterans, so it's
important to hear their storiesand then give them the help they
need uh in their campaigns.

SPEAKER_03 (24:27):
Uh you know, that that's that that's interesting,
and I think you you have agrowing population of
independents too.
This is interesting.
I saw before our talk uh pulledup a recent Gallup poll.
So this was reported out well,April of 2023, so a little bit
dated, but the data isinteresting.
So in 2004, 35% of Americansidentified as Democrats, 33% as

(24:50):
Republicans, and 31 asindependents.
And then you fast forward almost20 years, so 2023, both
Republicans and Democrats'affiliations have decreased down
to 25%, while independents arenow up to 49%, right?
So 31% in 2004, up to 49%.
I mean, what that's telling meis half of America is

(25:11):
unaffiliated with the politicalparty.
They might lean in one directionor another, but consider
themselves to be independents,myself included.

SPEAKER_05 (25:18):
So I mean it it is uh the largest growing quote
political party that we have.
The Republicans and theDemocrats are shrinking, whereas
independents are rising.
And it's really important tothink about that.
Uh, but here's another littledate, you know, anecdote from my
knocking on doors is I never hada door slammed in my face

(25:41):
because I wasn't wearing a redt-shirt and I wasn't wearing a
blue t-shirt.
And they would normally give mea few minutes of their time to
say, and I got a lot of, oh, I'mso glad you're an independent.
I'm an independent too, and andall that kind of stuff.
Uh uh, but there are challengesto running as an independent.
You don't have theinfrastructure, you don't have

(26:02):
the donations, you don't havethe money.
And in Arlington, it's evenharder.
Um, and I hope to change thisover the next few years, but but
every every uh every countyboard member is elected at
large.
So there's 240,000 people in 24square miles in Arlington.
So me getting my message out to240,000 people is really, really

(26:26):
difficult.
If we had districts, I reallythink I could win Northwest
Arlington, right?
So if I could if I could only uhtarget my message to Northwest
Arlington, I think I could win.
So this is the you know, thingsthat I want your listeners to
really understand is the nuancesof you know, what's at large,
what's what's districts, and andhow does that affect uh your

(26:48):
ability to win an election?

SPEAKER_03 (26:50):
That makes sense, yeah, because it's easier to
communicate with 80,000 peoplethan 240,000, right?

SPEAKER_05 (26:55):
Um absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (26:56):
And depending on geography and I mean there's so
many, you know, in largemunicipalities, large counties,
you know, one part can be very,very different from the other.
You know, like um, you know, Imean even thinking about here
where you know we've got asmattering of towns, but most of
it's rural, you know, like theinterests of folks are are very
different, right?
You know, the farmers are morethinking about ranching and

(27:17):
farming and issues and waterrights and all the rest of it.
Uh folks in the city might bethinking more about I don't
know, parking, paving, you know,things like that.
So um yeah, no, that makessense.
Um so the first step is kind ofget involved in the community,
you know, join the chamber ofcommerce if you're a business
person, you know, check out thelocal civic organizations.

SPEAKER_05 (27:37):
Well, PTA and and PTA and and youth sports
coaching, right?
So I had a lot of people, I Ilike pulled out my you know list
of of my kids' t ball team from10 years ago and I started
emailing them, right?
Uh because uh and they werepeople who trusted me with their
children, right?
So maybe I can trust you with mychildren, maybe I can trust you

(27:59):
to uh you know run for ArlingtonCounty Board.

SPEAKER_03 (28:02):
Yeah, for sure.
Um and then so once per somebodydecides to pull the trigger on
this and say, okay, well, youknow, I'm in, I'm gonna run for
city council, I'm gonna run forcounty board of commissioners,
like what's the next step?

SPEAKER_05 (28:15):
Well, it's it's really great in America that um
most of the small you knowcities and counties around the
country, you know, they have adirector of elections, they have
a website, and usually they havevery clear instructions on what
it takes to run for office.
And then at the state level,they also have the
infrastructure to tell you whatyou have to do.

(28:36):
So yeah, you have to you have touh file forms and you have to
open a bank account, you have touh collect um petition
signatures uh of citizens thatreside there to to run.
And then you need to kind ofcreate a team and and get enough
volunteers and um you know holdhold fundraisers, just be out

(28:59):
and about a lot, go to farmersmarkets, knock on doors.
But none of this isinsurmountable.
A lot of a lot of people in ourcountry sadly um are really it's
a such a defeatist mode, andthey and they think that they
can't do anything about it.
Um and you know, there are a lotof things in our a lot of things

(29:20):
that are not even in ourconstitution, as you know, Joe.
Um political the word politicalparties are not even in the
Constitution.
And one of our best presidents,George Washington, was our last
independent president.
Um, and Abraham Lincoln was ourlast third party uh president,

(29:40):
right?
So um we have some good uhrepresentatives of of what it's
like when people are independentor a third party.
Uh primaries are not in theConstitution.
Uh, so that's really important.
And I'd I'd love to talk alittle bit about the primary
problem if you if you have a fewmoments and some of the

(30:01):
solutions to the primaryproblem.

SPEAKER_03 (30:03):
Yeah, let's dive in because I'm I'm curious, like,
especially, you know, I know inthe state of Virginia it's open
primaries, so you know, I got topick which party's primaries I
wanted to vote in this year.
But you know, in places thataren't, it's kind of like why
are the voters paying for aprivate club to select their
candidate, right?
So I mean, like, yeah, I want tohear your thoughts on this.

(30:24):
Like the primary problem as yousee it.

SPEAKER_05 (30:26):
So several years ago, I I I got involved in an
organization called UniteAmerica.
And uh this organization is runby an amazing young man named
Nick Troiano.
And um over the last few years,they did a lot of deep study,
they got a lot of smart peopleon the staff, and they realized
that the biggest problem we haveare partisan primaries.

(30:51):
And um partisan primaries uhhaven't been around our whole
lot, you know, our whole uhhistory of our country.
It's not in the constitution.
Uh in the old days, there wouldbe uh party bosses and
smoke-filled rooms who wouldselect the nominee for for a
political party, you know, bothat the federal, state, and and

(31:12):
local levels.
Some people thought that weneeded to reform that and we
needed to have more citizeninput in that.
And so they said, well, let'shave these things called
primaries.
And and so people in originallyit was a little bit more
democratic, a little bit more,but over the years it became
completely warped.
And Nick and others havedetermined that it is the

(31:35):
biggest problem are our partisanprimaries.
So um across the country, I'lljust stay at the federal level,
is that is that some states haveclosed primaries, so you have to
register with a political partyin order to vote in a party
primary.
And then there are openprimaries like Virginia, where

(31:59):
you can show up on election dayand say, hey, I want to I want a
Republican ballot or aDemocratic ballot, but you don't
have to register ahead of time.
But then we have the innovatorslike Alaska who have have uh
created a new system, uh, whichwe like calling the Alaska
model, which is non-partisanprimaries.

(32:20):
So how that works is um is thateveryone running for a certain
office um gets put on theprimary ballot list, and and
then voters just choose theirtheir top choice, and then the
top four for from the primary goon to the general election.

(32:40):
So um it is not uh partisan, itis a non-partisan primary.
And Nick and others believe thatthis is so important to our
reforming our political system.
So in that election in 2022, umLisa Murkowski, who is a
moderate Republican senator,longstanding, been in office for

(33:03):
a long time, um, she she made itto the top uh four for the
general election, and then andthen she was re-elected as a
senator.
Most people think if she had torun in a partisan Republican
primary, she would probably losebecause she would be it's it's
now a verb, she would have beenprimaried from her right, and

(33:26):
she probably would have not beenum made it through her primary,
her partisan primary.
Um and then uh for the staterepresentative, the entire state
of Alaska only has onerepresentative, and so um they
went through this process.
We had some people you may haveheard of, like Sarah Palin was
on the ballot, but because of uhnonpartisan primaries and ranked

(33:52):
choice voting, um the people ofof Alaska were able to better
express their their choices, andthey ultimately selected a
moderate Democrat to fill thatseat.
Um and some people say, oh,well, this caused the
Republicans to lose.
It really is is a common sensereform that doesn't favor any

(34:16):
political party.
It what it does is it it moreclosely responds to the majority
of of the of the voters.

SPEAKER_03 (34:25):
I I love that because I think it also helps
drive the conversation towardsthe center where most Americans
are, right?
You know, and you know, I thinkwe've got the arguably the best
system of elections in theworld, you know, as a as a poll
worker and uh election officialin in the state of Virginia now,
um, I'm definitely biased, butyou know, based on my

(34:45):
experiences, what I've seen inthe state of Maryland
previously, and then now inVirginia, you know, I feel
really good about like anycitizen going to the polls,
their vote's gonna count andit's gonna be accurately
tabulated and tallied.
I I think the greater problem iswhere you're talking about is
like the system by which youknow we have the menu of
choices, right?
Because right now, you know, ifI'm believing looking at this

(35:06):
Gallup poll, essentially we haveyou know one political party
that represents about 25% of thecountry and another one that
represents the other 20% servingup candidates for 100% of us to
choose from.
And you know, it's just kind oflike what happens if if um I
don't really find a home ineither political party, you
know.
Um I I you know, then I justhave to hold my ho nose and pick

(35:27):
you know from the least badchoice, where this system seems
like it's gonna offer like somereally optimistic choices uh
about candidates, right?
You know, if you know, I thinkyou know in our system of
economics, like more competitionis better and typically serves
the consumer more.
And you know, I think Todd said,hey, you know, we would never
allow a duopoly in business, buthere we are in politics um and

(35:52):
elections, allowing you know twopolitical parties basically to
run everything.

SPEAKER_05 (35:55):
So um absolutely.
And I've been involved in thispolitical reform movement for
many years now.
And when you know we have newvolunteers coming in to veterans
for all voters, um, you know, Igive them a PowerPoint deck of
hey, this is what this is howyou get involved.
The first thing I have, thefirst bullet is get smart,
right?
Meaning, you know, understandthe nuances of our political

(36:20):
process, of our electionprocess.
So many people don't evenunderstand what a caucus is or a
primary is and how they'redifferent.
Many people don't understandopen primaries and closed
primaries.
Some people don't evenunderstand uh what a board of
supervisor member does.
And your local government islike probably the most important
thing because they're your localtaxes and your police and your

(36:41):
firefighters and your safety andyour zoning.
All that is done at the locallevel.
So we have a lot of people inthis country.
It's a very sad thing that thathave they don't understand and
they have no interest inunderstanding, which I just
think is is shocking that youdon't have the curiosity.
Um, and then they getradicalized because they think

(37:03):
that their voices aren't heard,um, but they don't even
understand the system of how itworks.
And and things like primariesare not in the constitution, so
we have the agency to changethose either either through the
state legislature or through uhthrough ballot initiatives, and
and we really need people to getmobile mobilized and activated

(37:24):
in a positive way.
I mean, obviously, we don't wantpeople uh you know raising arms
uh in their elections, uh wewant them to get involved in
more civic uh activities.

SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Yeah, as the founders of the country
intended.
So I think um you've given a lotus a lot to think about today.
So just to kind of recap, if ifuh for the listeners out there
who are interested, maybe evenas a result of this
conversation, to consider uhrunning for local elected
office, uh, where can they findout more?

SPEAKER_05 (37:54):
Yeah, I'm gonna mention a few um organizations.
Um Veterans for All Voters.
I encourage everybody to uh takea look at that online.
Uh another organization iscalled New Politics.
And New Politics providescampaign training for anyone who
has served, right?
So it could have been themilitary, it could have been the
Peace Corps, it could have beenTeach for America.

(38:15):
Uh they're an amazingorganization that provides
extremely high-level trainingfor anyone that wants to run for
office.
Uh and then, and then even otherorganizations like the League of
Women Voters.
Um, you know, they're awonderful organization too.
And all these organizations needa diverse group of people to
join.
Um, I I love my League of WomenVoters uh ladies, but a lot of

(38:38):
them are older and whiter,right?
Right.
So we need other people to jointhese organizations and get
involved.
The other great thing about thispro-democracy movement is we
form these great coalitions,right?
So you know we we all show up inRichmond and we're you we're
representing differentorganizations, but we're all for
a common mission, which is to uhhelp our democracy.

SPEAKER_03 (39:02):
Awesome.
I think that's a great thoughtto end on, Mike.
We really appreciate your timeand your wisdom and knowledge
today.
You've given us a lot to thinkabout.
So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 (39:11):
All right, Joe, it's uh great to be a guest on your
show, and um I really hope morepeople get involved in our
democracy.

SPEAKER_03 (39:21):
In order to help strengthen American democracy,
we run into thousands of peopleand hundreds of organizations
who are all doing their part tomake their bit of America better
for everyone.
So that to that end, we're gonnastart highlighting partner
organizations and their leadersto bring them to your attention.
And there are many ways to serveour country after leaving the
military.
And there are many great groupsacross our country who can use
your talents and your energy.

(39:42):
There's an old saying that ifyou want to go fast, go alone,
but if you want to go far, gotogether.
And when we challenge ourselvesin 2022 to help America close
120,000 deficit in election pollworkers, we banded together with
like minded people, formed Vetthe Vote, and recruited the next
generation.
Of American election pollworkers.
You know what?

(40:03):
More than 63,500 of youresponded.
Today we're spotlighting one ofour newest members of the Vet
the Vote Coalition, More PerfectUnion.
More Perfect Union is anationwide movement to
strengthen our communities andheal our country by creating
meaningful connections throughservice and leadership.
And joining us today for MorePerfect Union is U.S.
Army Combat Veteran andco-founder and executive

(40:23):
director, Garrett Cathcart.
Garrett's a leader among post9-11 veteran organizations.
Prior to joining More PerfectUnion, he served as the founding
executive director of MissionRoll Call, which is a nationwide
organization that providesveterans a powerful and unified
voice in public policy, and asthe first Southeast Regional
Director of Veteran ServiceOrganization Team Red, White,
and Blue, which many of youknow.

(40:44):
Garrett served nine years in theU.S.
Army as a cavalry officer and asa veteran of Operation Iraqi
Freedom and Operation EndurianFreedom in Afghanistan.
Garrett, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
Thanks so much for having me.
Sorry I had a mute there.
I'm excited to be here and talkto you guys.

SPEAKER_03 (40:59):
We're excited to have you here, sir.
What can you tell us a littlebit about yourself and like what
led you to uh to this work?

SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
Yeah, I never would have thought I'd be a uh a
nonprofit guy, certainly, orworking in democracy uh or
veteran service uh before that.
But uh I grew up in Indiana, uhin Indianapolis, and uh even as
a small kid, I I loved readingand was a bit of a nerd.
And in the third grade, I toldmy mom, I've read all these
books about military leaders.

(41:29):
I'm like, I read this thingcalled West Point.
I said, Mom, I'm gonna go toWest Point.
And I told her the third grade,she kind of patted me on the
head.
Um, but I never ended up losingthat dream.
And so uh ended up applying toone college, which was uh West
Point, got in.
Uh and then 9-11 was mysophomore year.
Uh and so kind of dramaticallyobviously changed uh the course

(41:50):
of the direction.
Actually, my room, my roommateand I tried to quit West Point
in the list because we thoughtwe were gonna miss the war.
Uh and our my tactical officerwas like, You're an idiot,
Cathcard.
Go back to class.
I was like, Yes, sir.
Uh, and how how right he was tothis day.
Uh, but also obviously, youknow, the 20 some odd year wars
and both.
And so um I got commissioned anduh went into armor branch and

(42:13):
then subbranch has cavalry,which is reconnaissance and
direct action.
Uh, and so kind of straight outof West Point after all the
schools, my first job besidesmowing lawns for for cash was as
a scalpel leader in Baghdadduring the surge.
Um and that was uh kind of mycrucible year, hard year.
Um company commander killed inaction.

(42:35):
I was in an ambush, and four ofmy own soldiers were killed in
action in a pretty traumaticway, and uh, I recovered the
remains, and then on and on forthe rest of the year.
And then my best friend fromWest Point was killed in action.
And so, you know, that was kindof the beginning of the career,
and then you train up for a yearand you come home, and it was
second year, I was supposed tobe a staff officer, and uh the
squadron commander comes out andis like, Garrett, you suck at

(42:57):
making slides.
I'm like, Yes, sir.
Uh and he's like, We need amajor to like go train the Iraqi
army and live with him.
I was like, Okay, sir.
I was a young captain, I wasreally putting one and one
together.
He's like, Garrett, I'm askingyou, do you want to go live with
the Iraqi army and operate?
I was like, Yes, sir.
So I got I left the office andgot to live with the Iraqi army
for my second year in Iraq andum tried to quit the army a

(43:18):
couple times.
And the first time they threwaway my paperwork, and they told
me I was gonna command a cavalrytroop in Afghanistan.
I said, I can't say no to that.
So I stayed in and got to lead alot of 128 guys in Afghanistan
for a year and came back and wasended up being aide to a
two-star.
But uh, all that to get to whereI am now, I got out of the army
and I was talking to some folksuh in the government for other

(43:39):
jobs who ended up following agirl to LA, as you do, and uh
moved to Orange County, got ajob in med device sales in
Beverly Hills, so straight fromAfghanistan and Army to Beverly
Hills.
Wow, shock attention.
Uh you know, I'm tellingneurosurgeons my stories and
making them laugh, andorthopedic surgeons selling my

(44:00):
back screws, and then I'mstanding in operating rooms at
Cedar Sinai like during surgery.
I'm like, dude, what ishappening?
I have no background in sales orscience or medicine.
Um, and very quickly I was youknow pretty unhappy.
Um and so I was like, dude, whatwhy am I unhappy?
I'm living in this awesome spot,great gig, going out with these

(44:22):
docs, having a good time.
And then ironically, a guy I metonce in Afghanistan calling me
out of the blue, a guy named JoeQuinn, who's now one of my best
friends.
He formerly led Headstrong, buthe was sent out to study me
because I had made friends witha bunch of Afghan uh militia
Bujadin fighters and convincedthem to fight um outside of the

(44:44):
traditional kind of channels.
And he said, Cathcart, come comehelp us build this thing-called
team RWB.
It's like for veterans.
I was like, Joe, I like you,buddy, but I don't want to be
poor and I don't really careabout veterans, so appreciate
you, man.
And then I went and likevolunteer, I worked out with him
in LA and I was like, oh man,this is what I miss is making
fun of Navy dudes, like workcommunity, the work I didn't

(45:07):
know the words at the time,right?
Purpose, camaraderie, help, youknow, service to others.
And so that kind of began mycareer where I'm in now in
nonprofit leadership.
Um, and from there I was askedby one of the funders of RWB to
build this new organizationcalled Mission Roll Call, um,
which is policy focused.
And by the end of that, youknow, I could text 1.3 million

(45:28):
veterans by zip code and asksome questions.
So, you know, that means I couldtext by congressional district
and uh got the attention of alot of lawmakers.
Uh, and then I could kind ofpause there and we get into the
genesis of more perfect union.

SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
Yeah, well, that's what we want to hear next.
So, so you go from um med devicesales, uh, which I can imagine
was an unbelievable cultureshock, um then um you were you
were kind of you were exposed tosome different hospitals between
there and your uh militarycareer.
And and yeah, and and but butthen okay, so so you've done now
a couple of of organizations innonprofit.

(46:03):
Um how and and why uh did youget involved and help to stand
up more perfect union?

SPEAKER_00 (46:09):
That's a great question.
And I'll it all go comes back toa guy named Jake Harriman, who's
uh who's uh the founder uh andan awesome dude.
Um, you know, briefly on hisstory, he did a lot of work in
Africa in a place called NeuruInternational, which was
veterans and aid workers intosome denied areas and hard areas
to prevent terrorism throughproviding employment, right, and
preventing poverty.

(46:30):
He comes back after livingabroad for seven or eight years,
uh, and he comes back to the USin like 2016 or 15 for the first
ever presidential leadershipscholars program.
He looks around, he's like,dude, what happened to this
country?
Yeah, I haven't been here ineight years, and you guys hate
each other's guts.
This is insanity.
Uh, and so it was his originalidea let's we let's use veterans

(46:51):
somehow to bring America backtogether because veterans are
the only ones, it's the onlyrespected institution left,
right?
Still pulls up at 70% thateveryone, you know, at least
mildly respects and will listento for a minute or two.
And so this is how he was he'ssmart.
He's like, Garrett, I heard youbuilt some stuff with RDBB and
mission roll call, let's do acouple calls.
Can you give me some advice?

(47:11):
Like by the third or fourthcall, I was like, Come to DC, I
love what you're telling me,tell me more.
Uh, and by the fourth one, he'slike, Do you want to do this for
me?
The plan you just told me.
I was like, the whole time hewas recruiting me, not me giving
him advice, which was kind ofgenius.
Um, it's like, this is crazy,but I love it, and I'm in.
And so it is, you know, we arenot a veteran organization,

(47:32):
we're an organization for allAmericans, but it is led by
veterans in the first phase toas a convening authority.
And so that was the idea is howdo we get veterans to lead in
their communities, get people toconnect in real life through
service projects, civicengagement, leadership
development, and then have somereal authentic conversations to

(47:53):
get to know each other uh inorder to depolarize and kind of
turn down the temperature of thecountry.

SPEAKER_03 (47:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I love that because youknow, I think we are the United
States last I checked, and we'retypically do our best when we
come together to collaborate andbuild consensus around the hard
problems, which we see preciouslittle of um in Washington these
days.
And you're right, like you know,among both um both sides of the
political spectrum, veteransstill carry uh tremendous regard

(48:23):
within the country.
And that's something that thatEllen and I, and I know you uh
uh and Jake uh really want todefend, right?
You know, that that center spaceand the reputation of our
community because it's just soimportant for many, many
reasons.
Um Can you tell us a little bitmore about more perfect union?
And you had a term in our lastconversation about brickyards.

(48:44):
Like what are those?
And and you know, could you uhpaint us the picture about what
the purpose is and how they howthey run?

SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean you hit our mission,right?
We are a veteran-led movement toto heal the country and create
connection through our threepillars of service, civics, uh,
and leadership development.
So a brickyard is our work forchapter, right?
It is in any city that there's abrickyard, there's a leadership
team, all volunteer, led byveterans, but also on their
leadership staff, leaders in thecommunity that are not veterans,

(49:09):
right?
And usually we encourage fromdiverse backgrounds because
that's how you know the magicsauce is that you show up and
there's a diversity of people inthe room.
Otherwise, what's the point,right?
Uh, and so at every event thatwe do, uh you know, the the
model is we do a connectionevent, we build trust and
rapport and relationshipsthrough one of our three pillars

(49:29):
of service, civics, orleadership.
And you know, that is really onthe brickyard leader.
That takes the form of, youknow, in Atlanta, we we built a
house with habitats of humanityand then sat down to a meal.
They've done in in DC, they'veyou know gone to the Smithsonian
and have a conversation aboutwhat they saw and why.
Um Chicago, you know, theythey've done a uh like drive for

(49:51):
for students.
I think in Colorado they justhad a coffee with a police
department and marginalizedcommunities.
And so we're really a platformfor leaders and we provide
resources, aka dollars, right?
And also um structure.
But after we connect, we sitdown and we have what we call a
healing conversation overusually really good food, right?
Because it's it's hard to be madand hard to not have a good time

(50:14):
when you're eating somethingamazing and drinking some good
stuff.
And so all those conversationsare based around our core
values.
Um, and there's and our mostpopular uh has been around uh
our core value of hope.
It's just three questions aconversation around the American
dream.
And it's just like, Joe, whatwhat's the American dream mean
to you?
It's designed to pull outstories, and who are you?

(50:35):
And you know, this is what itmeans to me.
And you know, Ellen, what'swho's someone that personifies
that to you?
And you know, the answers youget from me is it's my
grandmother, it's this person,this guy is certain person I
served with.
Um, and so like we don'texplicitly talk about like, you
know, I love Braver Angels, I goto their stuff, but it's a
different model.
Like, I'm on the red team,you're on the blue team.
Let's talk about you know theSecond Amendment.

(50:56):
This is I want to get to knowEllen and Joe as human beings
and where you're from, right?
And then I'll later I'll findout you're a certain pillow of
space.
I'm like, really?
But that guy's awesome.
I didn't know that he was youknow, red team or blue team.
And so that's kind of the artand science of it.
It's a simple, simple thing wedo is getting people together
and building relationships, butin practice, incredibly

(51:16):
difficult.
Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (51:18):
Oh, go ahead, John.
I was gonna say, I mean, that'sit's so what's so true.
I mean, I'm I'm you know, livingthe the that life, right?
I'm a I'm a military spouse, myhusband's active duty.
I do not live in a friendshipsilo like a lot of people I
know.
I don't live in a media silo.
And, you know, I I meet someonewho I'm connected with because

(51:41):
of, you know, my my husband'sjob in the military and our mil
in our military unit orcommander where we live.
And there are 15 other things Iget from that person before I
find out their politics.
Like, uh, you know, before Ihave followed them on Instagram
and see what kind of stuff theypost, I'm like, can you take
care of my kids?
Do we need to make meals forsomeone who just had a baby?
You know, what's going on in theunit?

(52:01):
Are we doing a walk for someonewho's who's passed away?
Like, that's we get we do allthat before we even think about
politics.
And we're lucky.

SPEAKER_00 (52:13):
Is taking those notes and those lessons.
Some of our best leaders,frankly, are military spouses
that we send, um, all of ourleaders we send to the
University of Montana where wetrain them on a four or five-day
fellowship in Missoula.
Um, but that's a community, andit's right, like, hey, someone's
sick, so they need a casserole,or can I pick, right?
It's that's what we do.
Someone who's a friend, right?
And it's not, do you watch mynew station, right?

(52:36):
Can I trust you?
We build the trust ahead oftime.

SPEAKER_02 (52:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what's 2024?
What's in store for 2024 formore perfect union?

SPEAKER_00 (52:42):
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there's a
f a presidential election in2024 where it's going to be
chaos.
And so um 2024 is really aboutbuilding the foundation
infrastructure to be able tohave national impacts, right?
And that is not only in citiesthat we're in, brick and mortar
cities, I call them, wherebrickyards are, that'll be 33
cities in 2024.

(53:03):
That that those are people,volunteer leaders, and
leadership development um teamsin every city that we're in.
But also what we're developingprogramming.
So if you don't live in one ofthose 33 cities, how do you get
involved in real life?
You get your shirt in the mail,you do you do programming where
you live, right?
One of our most popular has beenthis uh the coffee club where we

(53:23):
we buy the coffee and you invitepeople just to drink coffee and
ask about who they are.
It's not the whole the wholemodel, it's a smaller version of
kind of outreach.
But 24 is we've got sometemplates of cities we want to
go, like the most polarized, themost politically homogenous,
meaning all left or all right.
Um but also one of the biggestprograms I'm I'm proud of is we
have a really big rural program.

(53:44):
Um, rural America is half of thecountry, right?
And traditionally it's reallyhard to get into.
Uh my grand my grandfather was afarmer in Small Town, Indiana.
My dad is from a town calledSeymour, Indiana, which is the
town that John Mellencamp's fromand wrote the song Small Town
About.
Um, and so I grew up in the bigcity of Indianapolis.

(54:05):
So like I've got a heart forboth.
Um, but we've got an incredibleleader, a Marine Colonel who's a
special operations battalioncommander who lives in Idaho,
who's running all of our ruralprograms.
And he's got he's buildingthings in Idaho and uh eastern
Oregon and growing from thereinto Wyoming, and we've got
places in Indiana.
And so getting to rural Americaand connecting them to the rest

(54:29):
of the country is something I'mexcited about and proud of
because it's it's hard to do,right?
I mean, similar to the militarycommunity and other communities,
those are tight communities, andoutsiders aren't really who are
you and what do you want?
Is the first question, right?
And so um they just drove uh oneof our program managers, Triple
Connell and Vaughn, just drovefrom Boise and did like this

(54:50):
five-day road trip all throughrural America almost on a
listening tour, meeting people,hearing them, and two of those
two of those folks want to startbrickyards now.
And so, but is that that literalwork of you know going to
places, sitting in diners,meeting people, and asking them
what they think that that's thekind of the seeds of our growth?

SPEAKER_03 (55:10):
Yeah, and doing it from a position of curiosity,
right?
That's right, curiosity.
Human connection and curiosity.
It's not like I'm coming in hereto have a debate, I'm coming in
here to like challenge my ownbeliefs and better understand
your point of view.
Right.
What's important to you?

SPEAKER_00 (55:24):
What's important to this town, right?
It's not always politics, right?
You know, I mean, where'sEnterprise Alabama at a few
years ago?
The Bull Weevil Festival, right?
I mean, all these beautifulthings across the country that
you would never know about untilyou talk to someone who's there.

SPEAKER_03 (55:38):
Yeah.
Well, I love it because you knowI think you're a natural fit for
a partner with us um on manylevels, but especially around
bringing people together toserve the community and get to
know each other and civics,which leads to my next question.
Uh, why was it important fory'all to join the vote this year
for 2024?

SPEAKER_00 (55:57):
Yeah, I mean, civic engagement.
I mean, literally participatingin the democracy, and it's
dramatic, but true that wefought for, right?
Like it's as I learned in myBeverly Hills days, veterans
need purpose, right?
Like, like we need community, weneed purpose.
There is no greater purpose fora veteran than to help preserve

(56:18):
the democracy that we fought andbled for, right?
And that sounds dramatic, butit's I mean, viscerally true.
If we're questioning electionintegrity, if we're, you know,
there's political violence, likethat is not our country.
That's some third world countrystuff, right?
And so, I mean, what a what abeautiful thing if you walk into
a for a veteran to physicallyliterally participate in

(56:39):
democracy, but if you're acitizen engaging in voting, you
see a veteran of the armedforces, like it gives you a
sense of peace, I hope, right?
Like this person is trusted,they're trained, they care,
they've already sacrificed forthis that I'm doing, right?
I respect them, and so it fitsbeautifully within our civics uh
pillar.
And so um, yeah, I think inMichel Roll, I was even excited

(57:01):
about it.
We sent it out um my previousorganization, but there is
something beautiful aboutliterally participating in
democracy uh and about helpingto bring a calm and a peace and
leadership to the churches andlibraries around the country
that people voted.

SPEAKER_02 (57:17):
Yeah, no, we we agree.
And it's so true, you know, uh,that I've heard so many stories
from from friends who've servedthat that they've engaged with
other countries who are tryingto get uh elections up and
running.
And and that that's somethingwe've always been proud of.
So kind of being able to do thatback here at home is super
gratifying.

SPEAKER_00 (57:37):
I mean, I got to be in Iraq during the first ever
provincial elections, and I gotto be in Afghanistan when women
are allowed to vote for thefirst time.
So it's like, you know, youprobably see the famous blue
thumbprint uh photos with women.
Like um I mean it's just itdrives on how what how important
it is for we are able to vote,and that um that it's that it's
it's it's a duty as a citizen togo vote.

(57:58):
Um and I, you know, I had gonnahave, I think last year I went
and saw a butt I didn't work thepolls, I was doing something
else about I had a buddy doingit, he's a double amputee, lost
both legs in Afghanistan.
I was working the polls, umstanding there with his robot
legs on, and uh uh I neverforget that like a yellow cab
taxi pulled up.
Like a like a literal taxi, anda lady gets out with two kids

(58:21):
and she's wearing a Waffle Houseapron, like clearly on the way
to work, uh wrangling kids.
Like, I mean, she it's she isgoing through a lot of hoops to
go vote, right?
Uh before she gets to her shiftto the Waffle House, and she's
like looks at my buddy Dan andlike nods.
And it was just a almost like athe moment kind of encapsulated,
I think, the whole purpose ofVeterans and Polls, right?

(58:43):
Like this lady is doing all shecan to go vote, and this guy's
standing in there with onprosthetic legs, like they just
lock eyes and smile.
It was it was to me kind of theentire you know uh uh purpose of
veterans and polls, you know?

SPEAKER_02 (58:58):
Yeah, that that's it.
That is the story.
You're totally right.
Um, so so how can uh veterans,military spouses, military
family members get involved inmore perfect union?
What what's the what's the ask?
What do we do?

SPEAKER_00 (59:11):
Many levels, Ellen.
Uh the first is to sign up atour at our website, MPU.us.
And this is for any American,not just veterans uh and not
just military spouses.
I mean, you if you want to starta brickyard, we can talk.
We have programming fornon-brickyard cities.
Um, we will in the next month uhopen our application for the
2024 Fellowship in Missoula,Montana, uh, which we look, we

(59:34):
invest a lot in you.
It's about a$9,000 ahead uhinvestment we make to train you
um to go lead a brickyard.
Uh and we we usually bring somepretty incredible leaders.
Last year was National SecurityAdvisor O'Brien and his buddy
Sean Penn, who are polaropposites politically, but they
like each other because theywork on hostage negotiations
together.
Um, we'll train you as to ourbrickyard.

(59:56):
And so sign up on the website,apply for the fellowship, and
like, look, everyone says it.
But it's true, follow us onsocials.
We're also developing a prettybig digital media and social
strategy because we for this tohave an actual impact, we got to
touch millions of people,hundreds of thousands in real
life.
Um, but also we gotta showcasethat so the rest of America can

(01:00:16):
see wow, there's the middle 80%of America isn't the problem.
You got the 10% on the ends thatare taking all the bandwidth and
are all the news stations andcreating all the drama.
Like I really do think most ofAmerica, we're like, we're being
ghastly as a country.
We're not super divided.
We all we see is like thecrazies talking, right?
Like regular people don't makethe news.

(01:00:37):
You had a cup of coffee withsomeone who didn't watch your
news station.
That's not news, right?
And so uh we're gonna show startshowcasing that in a in a better
way through digital media andvideo storytelling.
But um, so all to say is signup, follow, apply for the
fellowship.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:53):
There you have it, folks.
We we absolutely love that.
Ellen, you were gonna saysomething?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:57):
Well, I was gonna ask one last question.
What's the story of the flagbehind you?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:00):
Uh that flag uh flew above the three combat outposts
in Afghanistan, I uh I ran as acommander.
That was the flag that flewabove uh the headquarters
outpost.
And I like to think that you cansee a hole in there.
I like to think it's a bullethole in it, but it's probably a
cigarette birth from a soldieron guard.
I don't know, uh, but I like tothink it's a bullet hole because
we were in some gunfights orwhatever.

(01:01:22):
But that is uh a reminder of uhuh of my time in Afghanistan.
So that yeah, great question.
Appreciate that.
Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:28):
Awesome, Garrett.
Thank you so much.
There you have it, folks.
More perfect union.
The goal is in the name.
That's something that we allserve to uh to defend and
support our Constitution withinthe United States, and um
couldn't be more excited to haveyou as part of the vet the vote
team in 2024.
Ellen, any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:48):
No, thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:50):
Appreciate it.
Thanks, Garrett.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:52):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:53):
Thank you so much for listening.
If you found this podcastepisode interesting or useful,
please share it with the peopleyou know.
This episode was co-hosted byJoe Plunsler and Ellen Guseson.
The audio and video were editedby Cameron King.
And this podcast is a productionof We the Veterans and Military
Families, the 501c3,not-for-profit, nonpartisan,
veteran led organization focusedon promoting positive and

(01:02:15):
patriotic civic engagement tostrengthen American freedom and
liberty.
Find out more about us at we theveterans.us and follow us on
social media.