In the second episode of View from 100, Sheriff Jay Armbrister talks with Katy Fitzgerald, the Criminal Justice Coordinator for Douglas County, about her collaborative work with the county's Criminal Justice Coordinating Council.
Fitzgerald, who came to Douglas County in 2022, discusses how her background in clinical and community psychology shaped her work with juveniles and adults in the criminal justice system.
She also talks about the work of coordinating efforts across law enforcement, courts and treatment providers, as well as the CJCC's recent achievements in improving competency restoration programs, probation assessments and CJCC governance. Looking ahead, Fitzgerald highlights the importance of system-wide data collection and strategic communication to drive future progress.
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Episode Transcript
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Jay Armbrister (00:00):
It'll turn red.
You want me to do it? Blap, whatdoes that do? Well, it's we
learned you can sync up theaudio and the video with the
noise. I know it was arevelation for all of us. So,
(00:22):
Oh, that's interesting. Okay.
Well, welcome back. This is ournumber two, big number two
podcast for the view from 100I'm your sheriff J Armbruster,
and I have a special guest withme here today, Katie Fitzgerald,
who is the criminal justiceCoordinating Council
coordinator. But this podcast isis designed to help hopefully
(00:43):
bring in some shake shareholdersand some stakeholders and people
who work within the system, butalso to reach out and maybe
eventually get to some, somefolks in the community who are
who provide resources and do doall of the unsung work behind
the scenes that that we rely soheavily on. So but today, we're
we're blessed to have Miss Katiehere with us to talk about what
(01:08):
it, what it is that she does,who she is, and why on earth she
is here. So thank you, Katie forcoming.
Katy Fitzgerald (01:15):
Thank you. I appreciate the invitation
Absolutely.
Jay Armbrister (01:18):
Hey, we're gonna start with the easy stuff. Who
are you? Why are you here? Whatdo you do?
Katy Fitzgerald (01:24):
So the first two of those are easy. You're
then the third. So my name'sKatie Fitzgerald. I grew up in
Fort Worth Texas, so I'm notfrom around these parts, the
DFW, yes. And I went to TexasTech in West Texas,
Jay Armbrister (01:41):
Lubbock. Yeah, the Red
Katy Fitzgerald (01:42):
Raiders, yes, I love, I loved Lubbock, and went
to college there, and then wentto Charlotte. I moved to
Charlotte, North Carolina forgraduate school, so I have my
master's in clinical andcommunity psychology. So I am
actually a clinician bytraining, and spent the first
part of my adult career actuallyproviding direct clinical
(02:04):
services for adults andjuveniles who were involved,
kind of across the criminaljustice really the idea I have
always worked with clients whohad criminal justice
involvement. And so I kind ofstarted in the community mental
health center working withjuveniles, primarily who were a
(02:28):
couple steps away from beingcommitted to a training school,
and adults who were kind of preincarceration, post relief, pre
justice involved. And then Ispent some time working,
actually, in a juvenile justicetraining school, which I just
really, I loved working there,with that population. It takes a
(02:51):
special person. Was that inCharlotte as well. It was just
north of Charlotte. It was in atthe Stonewall Jackson youth
development. Okay, I've heard ofStonewall, like the oldest
facility in North Carolina'sjuvenile justice
Jay Armbrister (03:02):
I believe he was on the losing end of the Civil
War, if I remember right. Imean, he was just making sure
that we're clear,
Katy Fitzgerald (03:10):
but it was all male facility for a lot of,
like, really heavily involvedjuveniles, on the real on the
very serious end of thespectrum. I've worked in the
managed care side of ClinicalServices, kind of serving as a
liaison between the courts andtreatment providers and mostly
(03:31):
juvenile clients. So juvenilejustice is kind of my passion as
a in my former life, but so Ikind of that is a lot of my
background before I kind of cameinto a space of working with
programming, a lot of datapolicy. And before I came to
(03:55):
Douglas County, I was workingfor Mecklenburg County, North
Carolina, which is what cityCharlotte. So it's a very big is
very, I think, exactly 10 timeslarger population wise, right at
a million, probably a littleover. And I had actually started
with Mecklenburg County wellbefore it got to a million
people. So like being able tokind of watch that population
growth and the serviceadjustment, the way that we all
(04:18):
had to go, Oh my gosh, what'shappening here was was really
interesting. But I spent thelast several years before I
moved here, doing a lot of work,primarily in pre trial reform,
Bill reform on the adult side.
So I have a very odd background.
Maybe your word, it's just adifferent background. I think
(04:39):
that a lot of people don'tnecessarily have or expect me
Sure. So that was me before Icame to Douglas County, up until
what year? July, the end ofJuly, 2022, okay, I moved out
here, sure. And I was kind ofjust looking for a different,
different work. Good. It wasjust, I was just looking for
Jay Armbrister (05:01):
a change.
Douglas County is different andin every way shape and
Katy Fitzgerald (05:05):
find it on a map,
Jay Armbrister (05:07):
you're welcome.
Yeah, we prefer that.
Katy Fitzgerald (05:10):
Was just, I was just looking for a change, yeah,
and had an opportunity. This wasan opportunity for me to move
closer to home and closer tofamily. And had I not gone, fun
fact, had I not gone to UNCCharlotte for graduate school, I
would have gone to Fort HaysState. I was down to those two
(05:32):
so Kansas was like, not, this isnot the first time Kansas has
kind of crossed my path. Okay,so
Jay Armbrister (05:38):
Fort Hays state's beautiful. I mean, it's
a long ways out there, but, man,great town, great, great
university. So that's how I camehere. Sure. Okay, and I remember
I sat in on an interview panelwhen you were and I recall that
being pretty hands down who wewanted. Oh, yeah, appreciate
that. I didn't say that it washands down. I didn't say it was
you.
Katy Fitzgerald (05:58):
Okay? Well, you got me
Jay Armbrister (06:01):
absolutely there was no, there was no choice
about it. We wanted you to comehere. So, who, so where do you
fit within the Douglas Countygovernmental structure?
Katy Fitzgerald (06:12):
So I report directly to the County
Administrator. I am, I do nothave staff. But we're part, but
I'm part of Sarah's that kind ofexecutive team with Bob Tran
ski, so he and I are similarlysituated, just different lanes.
(06:36):
Him over behavioral health, andthen me over criminal justice.
And then we're on that team withJill jolliker, who's the
Assistant County Administrator,and then Sean Peterson, okay,
and Carrie Britt,
Jay Armbrister (06:49):
okay, so you're so you're a county employee, but
you work under the directsupervision of the County
Administrator, yes, but you'rekind of a little weird finger
sticking off the side of thebubble. Okay, perfect. And who,
who do you intersect most with?
And so I guess I would say thatyour position is odd or rare in
the fact that you, you tie inwith all three equal co equal
(07:14):
branches of government,legislative, judicial and
executive I had that in mynotes. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm
reading one class. I'm readingahead.
Katy Fitzgerald (07:26):
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers
that, but I've had to learn
Jay Armbrister (07:29):
that. So yeah, funny thing during the election,
I learned that the districtattorney, I always assumed the
district attorney was in thejudicial branch, now their
executive branch. So, yeah, it'sa old dogs, new tricks. So, so
who do you? Where do youintersect the most, as far as
your day to day grind? So I
Katy Fitzgerald (07:52):
so thinking, so it's not an unusual question for
me to get about. Well, what doyou do? Right, like, what? What
does this position the criminaljustice coordinator? What does
that do? It is a unique positionthat I think a lot of local
governments do not have. And Ithink a lot of the
responsibilities kind of end upgetting tacked on to department
(08:14):
directors or sheriffs. They getreally split up between a lot of
the leaders of the partneragencies that my position works
with, sure, and that may workfine, but what I get to do is I
get to kind of, on behalf of theCounty, or for the county,
serve, as I view my role as kindof the center of all the spokes
(08:38):
in the wheel, and so All of thepartner agencies of the criminal
justice system. So you yourpeers in the police department,
the courts, district andmunicipal, the district
attorney, the defense attorneys,Criminal Justice Services
department, so our pre trialservices, alternatives to
(08:59):
correct to incarcerationprograms, probation, treatment
providers who are working withour with our court involved
folks. So kind of all, if youall are all the spokes, then I'm
able to, kind of, I'm kind ofwhere y'all come together. I
really am a neutral party. Sowhile I work on behalf of the
(09:21):
County and work for the county,certainly the county's interests
are, is this always my first? Ihave to make sure I'm looking
out for those first. But there'sa lot of room for me to kind of
move in within that space to Ithink I have a lot of latitude
to step in and kind of thinkabout help you all think about
(09:42):
how to address challenges thatmay be within a specific
discipline come up or or acrossthe system, and kind of think
about how to, how do we bestleverage resources that you
might have and put together likekind of cobble together.
Resources across the system. AndI think a lot of that is born
(10:04):
from when we think about those,those three branches of
government and the criminaljustice system, all of those are
often very siloed and separatedby design, right, right? And so
you all there's very specific,certainly responsibility lanes
of travel that don't oftenintersect, but they have to kind
(10:28):
of flow together. And so I kindof view myself as I think I'm
best positioned to just kind offloat in between there
Jay Armbrister (10:38):
where I am needed. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And hopefully
Katy Fitzgerald (10:42):
I'm helpful for people. That's always the thing
that I'm like, This is what Ithis is what I say. I do. You're
Jay Armbrister (10:48):
not creating more work. Hopefully not. So,
um, what has been kind of sowhat you're just saying you
started 2020 the it feels like alot. So 21 or 2222 oh my gosh,
the summer of 22 but it feelslike a lot. We were just babies
back then, really? No, that'snot true at all. Absolutely not.
I was old codger already bythen, but so in the, in the in
(11:13):
the three years, or whatever,what's been kind of the biggest,
I mean, what's been a goodsuccess, what's been the biggest
struggle?
Well, we're not we're payingyou, and you can't tell me one
damn thing that you've donethat's good. Well, I
Katy Fitzgerald (11:33):
have to pick one. I can rat a whole bunch of
things I think you all have donereally well. I think our
competency restoration programis one thing I would always like
I that was such an honor for meto be able to help you all me to
kind of lead that.
Jay Armbrister (11:47):
And for those of you that that may not understand
that competency restorationisn't where a person has been
found incompetent to stand trialand they have to go to the
hospital, State Hospital, for torestore competency and for an
evaluation, and that thatprocess has been taking anywhere
from 12 to 14 months, wherethese people just sit and
languish in jail. But as acounty, with Burt Nash, the
(12:08):
courts, the DA jail, us, we'veall come together to try to see
if we can get that system tohappen in our jail, instead of
having to wait for a bed to openup, hopefully keeping these
people from decompensating andjust languishing for that 12 to
14 months. So, yeah, sorry,yeah, and we are all deeply
proud of it. And so yes,
Katy Fitzgerald (12:28):
I mean, I think I would always say that some
other things. So probation wasreally struggling, getting a lot
of their clients assessed whenthe when there had been a court
order, just regular mentalhealth evaluation, and we were
able to, or I will never say, Idid these things. This is a
(12:51):
challenge, because I, because Imyself, did not do a lot, but
you
Jay Armbrister (12:55):
facilitated, yes, create the space. Okay, so
you, so you made
Katy Fitzgerald (12:59):
it happen. But we, we were able to work with
Burton Nash, and we have kind ofa dedicated assessor that work
has just, I mean, has beenphenomenal, yeah, and that it
was a huge win for probation andfor the courts. And then I think
just within the cjcc, I would, Ithink that we've done, really,
(13:21):
we've done a lot of work since2023 Sure, between like we, you
know, we had the assessmentcompleted. How are we
functioning against bestpractice standards, and then you
were part of our bylaws workgroup, right? We just really
revamped that, right? And justtotally changed how we govern
(13:42):
our you know, how we will begoverned, how we will hold
ourselves accountable, and thenthe strategic planning process,
yeah, it was almost the death ofme,
Jay Armbrister (13:53):
but it was a necessary evil. So
Katy Fitzgerald (13:56):
I think helping. So I think those I
would say I think are big. Thoseare the things that, when I look
back, I say, Well, I thatreally, yeah, I think those are
big things
Jay Armbrister (14:05):
I would say, like, from a law enforcement
perspective, and the murder ofGeorge Floyd created a vacuum
and a space for us to get betterand hold ourselves more
accountable. The I kind of feltlike, No, I came into office
right at the tail, at the tailend of the pandemic, and we were
kind of coming out of it. And Ifelt like the pandemic offered
(14:27):
the cjcc, for those of you, thecriminal justice Coordinating
Council, the opportunity toreally kind of rethink what it
is we were doing, because it wasbuilt with the best of
intentions, and it operated for,I don't know, several years pre
pandemic, probably two, four,okay, and, but it had kind of
lost its way, so to speak. And,and it was, it was an
(14:48):
opportunity for us to all aspartners, to kind of bring it
back and be like, hey, what?
What is our goal here? How do weget to that? And, and so, so you
were able to negotiate a lot ofthat streamlining and moving.
But also you had to take in theinput from everybody and decide,
kind of pare it down and decidewhat's what. And so I think
you're selling yourself a bitshort in that you didn't do it
(15:09):
because you did, but it was,it's, I don't think anybody
knows how difficult it is towrangle a judge, a da a sheriff,
and community members, you know,all at the same time who have
not, not differing values, butwe have competing values at
times. Yeah? So, so I think, Ithink it's easier to say, Oh,
yeah. You know, all these peoplecame together and did this great
(15:31):
job, but you really convened,you created the environment for
that to happen. So
Katy Fitzgerald (15:37):
y'all are hard to track down, but I've learned
by design, but I've learned, butI so I think sometimes the
challenge, and then the biggestchallenge, and the thing that I
enjoy the most is are the issometimes the same thing, being
able to that is always the mostthe design of the criminal
(15:58):
justice system, where it'ssometimes adversarial, yeah, but
mostly competing Right, rightvalues and and just the
structure can be is challengingto navigate, sure, especially, I
think, especially coming into aspace here where, you know, I
(16:18):
was in Charlotte for so long i iJust, it's hard to kind of
recreate. I was not sure what Iwas up against, sure, right? And
I'm an outsider and
Jay Armbrister (16:29):
like, how do you know now what you're up against
most of the time? Okay, keep youon your toes.
Katy Fitzgerald (16:35):
But as an outsider, sometimes this is
hard. This is a hard space,yeah, for sure, not, not one of
your own. You know, absolutelyit's a hard space anyways, yeah?
But then to come in, it's notlike, well, I'm from somewhere
else in Kansas, yeah, right. I'ma completely unknown commodity
coming in Alien
Jay Armbrister (16:58):
and in the most respectful way
Katy Fitzgerald (17:02):
we could go down a rabbit hole about that,
but the it's been challenging, Ithink for the most part, I was
lucky. I think you all arereally I walked into a really
good group of executives that atthe, you know, thinking, yeah,
who was at that table?
Jay Armbrister (17:19):
Sure, sure, totally. Well, everybody was
there for the right reasons, andAnd
Katy Fitzgerald (17:23):
y'all all work really well together. For like,
particularly disciplines. Youall as law enforcement, work
really well together. Usuallythat kind of that chiefs group,
the courts work really welltogether. Like the Yeah, the
partners were all there, and itwas a really good group of folks
that. So I wasn't needing to getbuy in for, like coming to the
table, right? That one of thechallenges that I think
(17:44):
particularly with the strategicplanning process and and I'm
thinking about as we're startingthe steps of implementation of
that Sure, a potential challengethat I think may just always be
a thing, is getting the buy into go deeper. So it's not just
come to the table and kind ofsurface level you guys did all
(18:06):
the surface level work before Igot here, right? And, and I, I
use the metaphor a lot of like,we're digging into the fat,
right? We're digging into themuscle now, right? That this is
where it things really get,well,
Jay Armbrister (18:19):
hard, yeah, and people will feel like they're
under the microscope, or thatthat we're looking in their
closets. And I can see how thatwould be frustrating. But again,
if you pull the pull the frameout, and you realize that you're
looking at an entire system, weall want it to be better, and we
want it to work correctly. Itmay never, that may never
happen. That may be but we cancertainly always be better.
(18:39):
Yeah, so, yeah, no, I think Icould see how that would be very
difficult. But you know, andagain, the courts have always
kind of operated in their ownsilo, and we are very fortunate.
And I hope you would agree withme that we have the courts buy
in and their participation.
There's a lot of places thatthat the chiefs and the sheriff
don't get along, and that thecourts and everybody else don't
get along, and we're veryfortunate in this community to
(19:02):
have really good relationshipswith all those,
Katy Fitzgerald (19:06):
Yep, yeah. And I think, I think in engaging the
buy in, or building buy in, totake the next step, which you
all each I'd have no, I have noagency or authority right over
you or over any partner, yeah,right. I don't get to say, okay,
chiefs, when we have our chiefsmeeting, I don't get to walk in
(19:28):
there and say, here's what y'allare all going to do, because
this is what the county wants,right? I mean, I guess I could
do that and I get, no, I don'tget the response I'm looking for
right, but the trying to besensitive how I how I hope you
would agree or and that, thatthe other partners would view
(19:53):
how I try to approach that isrecognizing, you know, that you
all have trying to really learnwhat your. Or like, what are the
concerns for you and for yourdiscipline? And certainly,
certainly, there are lots offolks at sitting at the cjcc
table in particular, who whohave, at different times, felt
very much under the microscopeand haven't, and that has not
(20:15):
been such a great feeling forthem, and don't want to
replicate that, right? And so Iso I try. It's really important
to me. Relationships are reallyimportant because I don't I'm
not successful at my job withoutthem, right? And which means I
can't help you be even moresuccessful without that. Like,
Jay Armbrister (20:35):
oh yeah, our success is shared, for sure. So
Katy Fitzgerald (20:38):
I so I try. I I tried to approach those with
making sure be in a space of,well, learning, what is the
concern for you, what is thebarrier for you? How can I work
with that, right? And there aretimes where the answer is, we're
just not going to work pastthis. Okay, so let's we're just
going to move on to the nextthing, right? And I try not to
(20:59):
force things. I mean, I hope youall experience. That's how I try
to work through that and work inknowing that. You know, one of
the hardest things, not just forfolks who have to intersect or
in be involved with the justicesystem, we always hear a lot
about trust. Does the publictrust the system? Yeah, and the
(21:19):
same can be true. I think forthe partners in the system, you
all have to be in a place atsome point where you know, you
all trust each other across thesystem. And so can I help build
that like I'm always kind oflooking for or watching for, how
can I help and where those arethe barriers? And
Jay Armbrister (21:40):
I think it also exposes a place that your work
gets harder is when two partnersdon't are not in the same lane
or on the same page and or evenmaybe even working against each
other, which may or may not havehappened in the last four years,
but it's it's very difficultwhen, when there's friction
(22:02):
between the two, and you're theone that eventually has to kind
of step in and be like, we'reall trying to get to the same
place. And so I think that kindof goes under the radar quite a
bit, that you end up having todo that a little bit.
Katy Fitzgerald (22:13):
Yeah, yeah. I can't remember if I said this in
my interview, but I remember oneof the so I had had to do a
slide, the one that theinterview that you had said, I
had had to do a PowerPoint of, Ican't even remember now what the
topic is, but one of the thingsthat that I initially had talked
about was how I view the role ofthis. So this is a similar role
(22:35):
to what I played when I was inMecklenburg County. And one of
the things I think is necessary.
And I think I am the therapistfor a lot of partners. You got
the training that you know youjust like, there are times you
just have to, unlike, like, Ineed, I need to be a safe space
right for y'all to be able tosay, here's what's happening.
(22:58):
And I so so that is veryimportant to me to maintain, to
be that for you all thatabsolutely, because I need to
understand what their dynamicsand things that are happening
that I'm not going to knowabout, and I don't need to know
all of it, right? But if I'mwatching, because I do, I think
a lot of my clinical trainingand my background, doing that
and working with people, I pickup on things, and I'm like, what
(23:22):
is happening, right? Yeah, why?
What's going on? And so I, Ithink I at one point wanted to
say, I view that part of my roleis not just understanding
policy, understanding data andhow to, you know, how do we
implement things, but it wasbeing a therapist and a referee,
and those are sometimes reallyor a barrier, or, yeah, like,
(23:47):
stay in two corners. And I thinksometimes those, those are,
that's a really important to me.
Those are very important, right?
No, I think because I don't knowthat, people always know how
necessary they are sometimes,unless you've been in that
space, and
Jay Armbrister (24:02):
I think it's safe to say that that was
probably not on the on theapplication. You know, how good
are you at keeping two executivelevel administrators, you know,
happy when they're not. So Ithink that's, well, I hope you
don't ever leave, because Idon't know, we'll get another
(24:23):
one. So really, the CJ the cjcc,is obviously pretty unique for
not just Douglas County, but fora lot of counties around us. I
mean, there's not that many. AndI think we are uniquely
situated, too, with a communitythat wants to fund resourcing,
but also we have certainresources within our community,
(24:46):
Burton ash, that other placesdon't have. And so how, how has
it been, as far as, like, justthe community, being able to
step in and fill some roles thatwe need in this space? The. And
by community I mean the Burtonashes and the heartlands and the
in the HH and all the differentthe community resources that we
(25:07):
have.
Katy Fitzgerald (25:08):
So I I have actually, that is one was one of
the things that was really avery pleasant surprise to walk
into going from a county of 1.2million people, sure, to a
county of 120,000 andgeographically a very different
setup, right? You know, DouglasCounty so rural outside of
(25:30):
Lawrence, right? And MecklenburgCounty, not so much and but, but
similar to and MecklenburgCounty was at the time that I
had left, and probably still ishad was kind of the richest
county in the in the state ofNorth Carolina, and the blue.in
(25:51):
the Red Sea. I
Jay Armbrister (25:52):
mean, you know what that happens? That's, is
that unfamiliar? It's like
Katy Fitzgerald (25:56):
there were some things were similar, the
Jay Armbrister (25:59):
blue Oasis
Katy Fitzgerald (26:00):
and but we, we were resource rich in some ways,
yeah, but not resourceaccessible, like the
accessibility of the resourceshere that you all as when I
think about the like theexecutives that I work with that
You You can just access. HH,right, like you can just call
(26:23):
right artists helping thehomeless, yeah, and they respond
Yeah. And because they'reamazing and they're all of those
resources, how accessible theyare, that has been that was
really different for me, sure,which doesn't maybe make sense.
No,
Jay Armbrister (26:40):
I think it absolutely does. I've always
been born and raised inLawrence. I know that Lawrence's
biggest weakness is Lawrence.
There are times that we can'tget out of our own way, but I've
also said that I feel and it's agood thing, but I feel like this
community loses sight of howgood we have it sometimes. And
this is another example of likepeople in other communities are
(27:02):
like, we have to stand up somegroup that will bring in, that
will come and take our folks wholeaving jail, and give them a
place to stay and a way to workand do these things. Whereas I
walked in and already hadartists helping the homeless, a,
H, H, you know, or we need, weneed this. We need some place
that we can take somebody havinga mental health crisis that
(27:23):
doesn't belong in jail, but itdoesn't, can't be at home. We
need to find something likethat. Oh, this community funded
a treatment and recovery center,you know. So I've, I feel like,
at times, we lose sight of how,how good this community has
been, but also, I we've alsogrown pretty big, you know, in
that, in that space, and nowwe're having to navigate a how
(27:44):
do we, how do we help othercommunities figure out what
we've been doing, while alsotrying to make sure that we're
helping our community first, asopposed to, you know, folks who
are coming here looking forhelp, but trying to help
everybody together. Yeah, it's
Katy Fitzgerald (28:01):
definitely for a long time, Mecklenburg County,
we had talked about and wanted acrisis 24 hour 24 hour crisis
center. And in the NorthCarolina, until a year or so
ago, was also not a Medicaidexpansion state. So we had
similar
Jay Armbrister (28:19):
last Yeah, we're close.
Katy Fitzgerald (28:23):
So it so Medicaid was so that also it's
not like we had Medicaid andKansas. Did you know Douglas
County for sure in that regard,but we the structure, the way
that that behavioral healthservices are accessed through
the managed care structure in inNorth Carolina really just made
that challenging. We did havesome different kinds of housing
(28:46):
options set up, but it just thevast so I don't want to say that
Charlotte and Mecklenburg Countydidn't have all those resources,
but it's, it's just not I mean,they're at my finger. They're at
our fingertips here, which just,and I don't think that it's just
because we're smaller. I don'tknow. I don't think that that's
(29:09):
it, having worked with a lot ofI mean, it's the the real,
genuine interest andwillingness, again, not just a
frontline staff, but all the wayup through these, through the
executive leadership sure theseagencies is there's buy in, is
just that that was a pleasantadjustment to make.
Jay Armbrister (29:27):
And again, I think my, one of my favorite
things about Lawrence, that inDouglas County, that people
don't that lose sight of it, isthat we are willing to do the
extra in assistance to ourfellow human like, we've had a
lot of over the last coupleyears, a lot of talk about
homelessness and chronichomelessness, and how did we get
to this place, you know? And alot of people like to draw a
(29:50):
line right back to, I don'tremember what it was, 2020, the
winter, but the city opened up ahotel, they bought out a hotel
and then housed people in there.
And of course, the hotel. Got itgot destroyed, and people were
very upset because the city thenhad to go back in. But it was,
while it's frustrating and it'shard to kind of make that okay,
I was still proud of the citybecause they they put their
(30:12):
money where their mouth was is,and they helped the least
fortunate among us. And I wouldrather learn the hard rules by
helping them too much and nothelping enough. And I think
that's where I feel like, that'swhere Douglas County is, is that
we, we will fail trying too hardto help somebody. So if you
could, so let's say this, thislittle podcast that's going to
(30:37):
have about nine listens to itover the next year, if this got
beamed into every home in the inour community, and everybody had
to listen to it, what's the onething that you would want them
to know about, about you andwhat you do, or just about the
system itself? Okay? So I have acouple things. Oh, okay. Roman
(30:57):
numeral one.
Katy Fitzgerald (31:03):
I've never been one for following instructions,
sure, if you should probably notbe surprised. So I think the
overarching, I think they're allrelated, though, so I don't like
not I think there's justdifferent components of this,
and this might get me run out oftown, but this is what I would
this is just what I would say tothat. So I think the overarching
(31:27):
thing that I would want peopleto know is the our criminal the
criminal justice system, and notjust the Douglas County criminal
justice system, but the criminaljustice system here and
everywhere it is, is not astraightforward No, as it feels
like or as what it may seemlike, it should be sure. And
(31:52):
underneath that, a couple of thethings that I think are just
important components of that forfor me, I think one no one
agency. We've talked about thisalready, no one agency. No one
individual has authority oragency over another, right? So I
(32:12):
don't get to tell you whatyou're going to do. You don't
get to tell Baldwin City policewhat they're going to do. The
judge may get to tell some ofus, but only in certain
contexts, right? Sure and sochange in this space. And you
all have experiences and beenpart of this change in this
space as a result ofrelationships that are built
across our partner agencies, inmy view, that are based on
(32:38):
mutual respect, trust andunderstanding Sure, and that
change takes time, yeah, yeah,because we there's just, there's
not some overruling authoritythat says y'all are going to go
do this now, right? I think thesecond thing are we that is
missed, and I think it's easy inthis community. I can see how in
(33:00):
this community it's easy to getlost. But the the criminal
justice space is not quite asentrepreneurial as like our
human our other human servicesspaces are. We don't have a lot
we don't have as much room tokind of take a new idea and run
with it, because the third Romannumeral, number three, um, the
(33:20):
boundaries of the of the justicesystem are not necessarily set
by local rules, local resources,local institutions. Sure, right?
You you may want to dosomething. Yeah, and state law
is going to say, Nope, you don'tget to do it that way. Douglas
County,
Jay Armbrister (33:36):
I've got an example. Failures to appear. I
was trying to get I was tryingto get it to where, if somebody
missed a court date and got awarrant for the rest, we warrant
for the rest, we would have oneday a month where that person
could freely appear and get anew court date. And I would talk
to the judge, and the judge islike, that's a great idea, but
it can't happen. I'm like, what?
Why? He said, Well, once aperson has been arraigned on a
(33:56):
charge, they've been given anattorney. I cannot as a judge. I
cannot speak to them. I cannothave them here. I can't have
them in front of me for anythingwithout their attorney. And you
would have to coordinate it thatthey would have their attorney
with them. And that's verydifficult thing to do, I mean,
because those attorneys havetheir own schedules. And so it
was, it was with the best ofintentions, and everybody was on
(34:19):
board, like, yeah, we need tofix this. We simply couldn't do
it in that way. Now we'relooking at other things, but
that's a perfect example of justhow the system itself prevented
us from doing better,
Katy Fitzgerald (34:31):
and it so all of the like that we are go. And
I think it's a little differentthan when you think about like
our housing system, right? Orsome of the some of the work
that we've been able to do thatthis community has been able to
do through like establishing theTRC, right? That was really you
can take an idea and you have,you don't have as many barriers,
or the pasture fences aren'tquite as tight as I think they
(34:55):
are set for the those of us inthe justice system. And so. So
all of that to say, I think Iget, I can, it's frustrating,
right? For folks like when itfeels like what they see is when
you just didn't fix that, right?
It's really simple. Why didn'tyou just fix right? Right? It's
not that simple. Yeah, it's notthat easy. And just because
(35:16):
you're not seeing that, right? Iwould not want what I would not
want people to do, especially inthis community and with our with
the with you all as my partners,I wouldn't want people to take
that as we just don't care,right, right, or that we're just
happy, and to accept wholecloth, the system as it exists.
Because that's not necessarilytrue. That doesn't mean that
(35:40):
we're not working on Okay,right? If we can't do it this
way, well, what happens if we goaround this other side door?
That's right, people just maynot always see that. Yeah. And
so then I think to the kind ofperpetual question, you know, I
would say what, I just hopepeople can trust us, which is
the million dollar question,that's what
Jay Armbrister (36:03):
I'm hearing, is that what you're asking for is
grace, yes, and grace only comeswhen they trust. And so I, and
I, I will always respect ahealthy dose of skepticism,
because the system has has beenbroken. It has broken other
people. Those are realities. Butas you said, I just wish people
(36:27):
would be like, I'm about to getreally angry at this one thing,
and I'm going to give you fiveminutes explain to me why I
shouldn't be angry. Go, Irespect that, and I'm going to
take that five minutes and doeverything I can. And at the end
of that, if they're still upset,they've earned it, I respect it,
and let's figure it out. Butmost of the times, by the time
that's over with, they're like,I had no idea, or that makes
(36:50):
sense, or, yeah, that is a thatis a big elephant to eat in one
bite. So I,
Katy Fitzgerald (36:57):
I love that.
There's so many there's just somany nuances, sure, to how
people come into the system, andin what way, like the process
through which people come intothe system, their exit ramps,
the way that we can or can'tcreate exit ramps for people.
And it's, it's, I know it's, itfeels, it feels bad to say, but
(37:19):
that's just how the system is.
Yeah. And I don't always want usto be complacent and go, Oh,
that's just the way the systemis. We just that's, you have to
go talk to Topeka, yeah.
Jay Armbrister (37:32):
And they don't want it. I don't. I don't want
people to just accept thatanswer either. You know, it's
like our hands are tied. We'vedone all we can do again, that's
okay. Well, then, then, now,where do we go with this and
that, whether it be Topeka, orif it goes over my head, or goes
back to the voters, I mean, anynumber of things, but I, I think
that's, I think that's a greatthing to ask.
Katy Fitzgerald (37:54):
Didn't not just run out of No, no,
Jay Armbrister (37:59):
I hope you say something. Those are. I just
think
Katy Fitzgerald (38:02):
that that's really and I don't think people
know that unless they're likeus, and have spent so much time,
sure, enmeshed in this andgoing, what? Because there's a
lot of times too that, I thinkwe think, but this is so simple.
Why can't we just do this? Andthen we go, oh, that's why it's
not going to work, right?
Jay Armbrister (38:19):
Right? Yeah.
Well, and when it, when it isyour 24/7, waking moment, what
you're doing all the time, welose sight of a lot of things
because we're just so deeplyinvolved in them. So, yeah, I
totally get that. What's, what'skind of, what's the thing right
now for cjcc, and what's, kindof on the horizon. So
Katy Fitzgerald (38:42):
we just so this is kind of we've spent the last
18 months, 1820 months, kind ofin a period of evaluating our
evaluating what changes. Whereare we at? Where do we want to
go? How do we get there andthrough a lot of different
(39:02):
things. So kind of starting withthat assessment that the Justice
Management Institute did withall of you, against the national
standards, and then we revised,spent last year revising the
bylaws and kind of ourgovernance structure, and all of
that kind of has culminated withthat the strategic plan. So in
February, you all just adopted athree year strategic plan at
(39:26):
your February meeting. And sothat will go through 20 that is
set to go through December of2027, we are taking that to the
Board of County Commissionersthe first part of April for just
to present it to them, we have anew leadership structure, so a
lot so we're kind of bringingthe bylaws to life through we
(39:49):
have a new executive committee,I won't say new, like we have an
executive committee, right?
Because that whole structure isnew, who will be overseeing,
kind of the implementation of.
Of the strategic plan. So thisthe two priorities that you all
are getting started on right noware the first one focusing on
(40:09):
system wide data, which is gonnabe
Jay Armbrister (40:16):
a lot. It is with data rich, interpretation
poor, once
Katy Fitzgerald (40:20):
we start kind of getting into that space, and
particularly as we think about,you know, having new district
attorneys getting used to a lotof the the information that's
available to him, so kind ofcatching his office up to what,
what information they have, andso data across the system, we're
(40:43):
starting on that, and then thecommunication strategy. So the
other part of the standards thatwe didn't, we just didn't really
have a lot, and I don't knowthat we've ever really talked or
thought about this, is astrategic communications plan
that really outlines probablyall of you as agencies have kind
(41:05):
of this is how you communicate.
This is what you do. These arethe core messaging principles.
Real and we as a cjcc, eventhough we're not an authority, a
body of authority, it's stillreally important that as a body,
you all kind of agree about howart, because we're all
community. If we're talkingabout the cjcc, we're
(41:25):
communicating on lots ofpeople's behalf, yeah, right,
that's for sure. So so we'rekind of, we're starting to pull
together, and I think we'remeeting in a couple of weeks,
that work group is going to cometogether of PIOs to start
working on developing astrategic communications plan
for you all the full so I'mgoing to do a shameless plug.
Oh, okay, great. So I workedwith it with the county. It last
(41:48):
for a lot last week and thefirst part of this week to kind
of revamp the cjcc website, toto incorporate and kind of show
off a little bit more of thechanges that you all made. So
the website is new, or there'snew content and new layout of
things. So I'm going to probablyget it where I should have
(42:10):
written this down in my notes,but DG, CO, ks.gov, and then the
forward slash, cjcc, so we havethe new bylaws up there members.
And then we did a section on thestrategic plan. And so the four
priority areas that are laid outthere, there's a document that
or a link that outlines theprocess that you all went
(42:34):
through to get to those fourpriority areas. And then we also
have the entire strategic plan,which is 97 pages. A lot is also
linked there. So there's a lotof information, I think, over
time, as we start to have, as westart to figure out kind of what
is it that we're reporting outto to you all as members of the
(42:56):
cjcc, to the public, to back tothe county commission as we
start to have outcomes andfigure out what is the
reporting. The way that we'regoing to do that, we'll be
adapting that section of thewebsite, but there's a lot of
new information there, and we'rejust getting really started,
(43:17):
yeah, in in the that's going tobe very meaty. Both of those
two, I think both of those twopriorities are, are pretty
hefty, because communications isprobably a lot, just like
there's more to the criminaljustice system, there's probably
a lot more to communication.
That's for
Jay Armbrister (43:36):
sure, what I for sure than what I know? Yeah,
well, there's one thing. There'sone thing to put the information
out. That's the other thing toget them to get them to hear it
and hear it the way you want itto hurt. So, so I think that
pretty well rounded out. Forthat part of it. I'm gonna go
with, I'm gonna go with the funquestions. Now these are the
ones that you sent me. I'm alittle disappointed if I sent
(43:57):
those to you, because now you'vehad time to think about it, but,
but George is too good to mekeep you in the loop. So it's a
simple question, what was yourfirst concert? What was your
most recent, and what was yourfavorite? And those can all be
the same thing. But
Katy Fitzgerald (44:15):
Okay, so my first concert was Brian White,
who probably nobody outside of
Jay Armbrister (44:22):
Texas. Yeah, no, that doesn't sound familiar. I
went to school a kid named BrianWhite,
Katy Fitzgerald (44:26):
no. And, you know, I can't even now remember,
like songs be reallydisappointed, like when I go
back and I had cassette tapes,yeah,
Jay Armbrister (44:34):
and all seven listeners are now spotifying
him. Yes,
Katy Fitzgerald (44:38):
I'm gonna, well, I'm gonna be doing the
same thing when I leave here,but it was at Billy Bob's Texas.
Where is that in Texas? It isin, is in Fort Worth, okay, it's
in the stockyards I've heard,which is the North, the north
side of Fort Worth. Okay, ifyou're ever in Fort Worth, you
have to go to Billy Bob's. It'sjust a, it's just a Fort Worth,
institution after Bucha. I mean,buckies. Came later. Billy Bob's
(45:01):
was first, yeah, but Billy Bob'sTexas. It's just this little
Yeah, it's your traditionalTexas Honky Tonk. So I saw Brian
White there.
Jay Armbrister (45:11):
Did it have an acre of dance floor? Yes? Like
Gillies? Yes, it's
Katy Fitzgerald (45:15):
a yes, yeah, so, but you have to go check it
out. And you should just checkout the stockyards too, sure?
That is off topic of thequestion. Well, my
Jay Armbrister (45:25):
funny Gillies story is I went through one
afternoon when I was in trainingin Dallas, and I got on the
bull, and this dude ran thebull, and I wrote it for eight
seconds, and then I heard myselfyell the dumbest thing I've ever
said in my life. I yelled, Isthat all you've got, you know,
and I'm looking at him, he's gota cowboy hat. This guy has. He
actually, he does that with hisI mean, 1.2 seconds later, I had
(45:47):
a dislocated elbow, and I waspiled up in the corner on a
bunch of mats. So, yeah, he was,Oh, fantastic. Okay, well, I'm
too old. I got compromised hips.
Now I can't be doing that.
Katy Fitzgerald (45:59):
Um, most recent. What were the other
ones? Most recent
Jay Armbrister (46:02):
and favorite and favorite? Okay,
Katy Fitzgerald (46:10):
so my most recent was before it so the
little town that I lived inNorth Carolina, Kannapolis,
their parks and recs where DaleEarnhardt's from, yes,
Jay Armbrister (46:21):
it's that, because I'm because it's in
here. If I remember one morething, I'm gonna forget my
anniversary date.
Katy Fitzgerald (46:27):
Kannapolis is known for Dale Earnhardt and
cannon mills. Cannon tells Sure,but the Parks and Rec did every
summer they had this, like,concert series, and so people
like the Commodores, oh my gosh.
Like it wasn't like recentpeople dropped their palm on me.
Recent people who were, youknow, big touring on the big
(46:50):
stage, but they're affordable.
Uncle
Jay Armbrister (46:55):
cracker. Oh yeah for sure. Okay,
Katy Fitzgerald (46:58):
alright, that was my most recent one. Yeah,
all
Jay Armbrister (47:01):
right, favorite, favorite.
Katy Fitzgerald (47:05):
Garth Brooks puts on a good show.
Jay Armbrister (47:07):
I've heard that my wife seen him a couple times,
yeah? Show, yeah. He is such agood entertainer. Yeah, I think
I would have to. Dude can fillup stadiums like three nights in
a row. So I pretty impressive.
Okay, that's fair. How long ago,does he am and where?
Katy Fitzgerald (47:24):
Probably, I think it was the Fort Worth
Convention Center, yeah, in thelast the last, it was like, in
some of me feel old.
Jay Armbrister (47:35):
You want to know why you feel old? Because I am,
yeah,
Katy Fitzgerald (47:40):
that's like 1996 oh, my gosh, that wasn't
fantastic. Yeah, I
Jay Armbrister (47:45):
was, I was cool back in 1996 that's how long ago
was I? Okay? I was here, yeah,exactly. But he's a
Katy Fitzgerald (47:58):
good one. You should go, Okay, well, well, 20
Jay Armbrister (48:01):
Yeah, yeah, the 20 years ago, yes, it was, oh
God, yep, I just had my 30 yearsago, my 30th high school
reunion. So yeah, we'reofficially old. Okay, I think
that's all I have for us today,unless you have anything
questions for me. No so thankyou again for joining us.
(48:23):
Thanks, like I said, the ninepeople who listen to this are
just going to be impressed outof their pants because of the
work that you do. But thank youso much for everything that you
do. Thank you. Everything thatyou do for me and my agency is
specifically but other thanthat, thanks a lot, and we look
forward to many future years oftrying to navigate this, this
(48:45):
bumpy road full of potholes,trap doors and asterisks, so
Yep. All right. Thank you.
Katie, thank you. All right.
Bye.
It'll turn red.
You want me to do it? Blap, whatdoes that do? Well, it's we
learned you can sync up theaudio and the video with the
noise. I know it was arevelation for all of us. So,
(00:22):
Oh, that's interesting. Okay.
Well, welcome back. This is ournumber two, big number two
podcast for the view from 100I'm your sheriff J Armbruster,
and I have a special guest withme here today, Katie Fitzgerald,
who is the criminal justiceCoordinating Council
coordinator. But this podcast isis designed to help hopefully
(00:43):
bring in some shake shareholdersand some stakeholders and people
who work within the system, butalso to reach out and maybe
eventually get to some, somefolks in the community who are
who provide resources and do doall of the unsung work behind
the scenes that that we rely soheavily on. So but today, we're
we're blessed to have Miss Katiehere with us to talk about what
(01:08):
it, what it is that she does,who she is, and why on earth she
is here. So thank you, Katie forcoming.
Katy Fitzgerald (01:15):
Thank you. I appreciate the invitation
Absolutely.
Jay Armbrister (01:18):
Hey, we're gonna start with the easy stuff. Who
are you? Why are you here? Whatdo you do?
Katy Fitzgerald (01:24):
So the first two of those are easy. You're
then the third. So my name'sKatie Fitzgerald. I grew up in
Fort Worth Texas, so I'm notfrom around these parts, the
DFW, yes. And I went to TexasTech in West Texas,
Jay Armbrister (01:41):
Lubbock. Yeah, the Red
Katy Fitzgerald (01:42):
Raiders, yes, I love, I loved Lubbock, and went
to college there, and then wentto Charlotte. I moved to
Charlotte, North Carolina forgraduate school, so I have my
master's in clinical andcommunity psychology. So I am
actually a clinician bytraining, and spent the first
part of my adult career actuallyproviding direct clinical
(02:04):
services for adults andjuveniles who were involved,
kind of across the criminaljustice really the idea I have
always worked with clients whohad criminal justice
involvement. And so I kind ofstarted in the community mental
health center working withjuveniles, primarily who were a
(02:28):
couple steps away from beingcommitted to a training school,
and adults who were kind of preincarceration, post relief, pre
justice involved. And then Ispent some time working,
actually, in a juvenile justicetraining school, which I just
really, I loved working there,with that population. It takes a
(02:51):
special person. Was that inCharlotte as well. It was just
north of Charlotte. It was in atthe Stonewall Jackson youth
development. Okay, I've heard ofStonewall, like the oldest
facility in North Carolina'sjuvenile justice
Jay Armbrister (03:02):
I believe he was on the losing end of the Civil
War, if I remember right. Imean, he was just making sure
that we're clear,
Katy Fitzgerald (03:10):
but it was all male facility for a lot of,
like, really heavily involvedjuveniles, on the real on the
very serious end of thespectrum. I've worked in the
managed care side of ClinicalServices, kind of serving as a
liaison between the courts andtreatment providers and mostly
(03:31):
juvenile clients. So juvenilejustice is kind of my passion as
a in my former life, but so Ikind of that is a lot of my
background before I kind of cameinto a space of working with
programming, a lot of datapolicy. And before I came to
(03:55):
Douglas County, I was workingfor Mecklenburg County, North
Carolina, which is what cityCharlotte. So it's a very big is
very, I think, exactly 10 timeslarger population wise, right at
a million, probably a littleover. And I had actually started
with Mecklenburg County wellbefore it got to a million
people. So like being able tokind of watch that population
growth and the serviceadjustment, the way that we all
(04:18):
had to go, Oh my gosh, what'shappening here was was really
interesting. But I spent thelast several years before I
moved here, doing a lot of work,primarily in pre trial reform,
Bill reform on the adult side.
So I have a very odd background.
Maybe your word, it's just adifferent background. I think
(04:39):
that a lot of people don'tnecessarily have or expect me
Sure. So that was me before Icame to Douglas County, up until
what year? July, the end ofJuly, 2022, okay, I moved out
here, sure. And I was kind ofjust looking for a different,
different work. Good. It wasjust, I was just looking for
Jay Armbrister (05:01):
a change.
Douglas County is different andin every way shape and
Katy Fitzgerald (05:05):
find it on a map,
Jay Armbrister (05:07):
you're welcome.
Yeah, we prefer that.
Katy Fitzgerald (05:10):
Was just, I was just looking for a change, yeah,
and had an opportunity. This wasan opportunity for me to move
closer to home and closer tofamily. And had I not gone, fun
fact, had I not gone to UNCCharlotte for graduate school, I
would have gone to Fort HaysState. I was down to those two
(05:32):
so Kansas was like, not, this isnot the first time Kansas has
kind of crossed my path. Okay,so
Jay Armbrister (05:38):
Fort Hays state's beautiful. I mean, it's
a long ways out there, but, man,great town, great, great
university. So that's how I camehere. Sure. Okay, and I remember
I sat in on an interview panelwhen you were and I recall that
being pretty hands down who wewanted. Oh, yeah, appreciate
that. I didn't say that it washands down. I didn't say it was
you.
Katy Fitzgerald (05:58):
Okay? Well, you got me
Jay Armbrister (06:01):
absolutely there was no, there was no choice
about it. We wanted you to comehere. So, who, so where do you
fit within the Douglas Countygovernmental structure?
Katy Fitzgerald (06:12):
So I report directly to the County
Administrator. I am, I do nothave staff. But we're part, but
I'm part of Sarah's that kind ofexecutive team with Bob Tran
ski, so he and I are similarlysituated, just different lanes.
(06:36):
Him over behavioral health, andthen me over criminal justice.
And then we're on that team withJill jolliker, who's the
Assistant County Administrator,and then Sean Peterson, okay,
and Carrie Britt,
Jay Armbrister (06:49):
okay, so you're so you're a county employee, but
you work under the directsupervision of the County
Administrator, yes, but you'rekind of a little weird finger
sticking off the side of thebubble. Okay, perfect. And who,
who do you intersect most with?
And so I guess I would say thatyour position is odd or rare in
the fact that you, you tie inwith all three equal co equal
(07:14):
branches of government,legislative, judicial and
executive I had that in mynotes. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm
reading one class. I'm readingahead.
Katy Fitzgerald (07:26):
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers
that, but I've had to learn
Jay Armbrister (07:29):
that. So yeah, funny thing during the election,
I learned that the districtattorney, I always assumed the
district attorney was in thejudicial branch, now their
executive branch. So, yeah, it'sa old dogs, new tricks. So, so
who do you? Where do youintersect the most, as far as
your day to day grind? So I
Katy Fitzgerald (07:52):
so thinking, so it's not an unusual question for
me to get about. Well, what doyou do? Right, like, what? What
does this position the criminaljustice coordinator? What does
that do? It is a unique positionthat I think a lot of local
governments do not have. And Ithink a lot of the
responsibilities kind of end upgetting tacked on to department
(08:14):
directors or sheriffs. They getreally split up between a lot of
the leaders of the partneragencies that my position works
with, sure, and that may workfine, but what I get to do is I
get to kind of, on behalf of theCounty, or for the county,
serve, as I view my role as kindof the center of all the spokes
(08:38):
in the wheel, and so All of thepartner agencies of the criminal
justice system. So you yourpeers in the police department,
the courts, district andmunicipal, the district
attorney, the defense attorneys,Criminal Justice Services
department, so our pre trialservices, alternatives to
(08:59):
correct to incarcerationprograms, probation, treatment
providers who are working withour with our court involved
folks. So kind of all, if youall are all the spokes, then I'm
able to, kind of, I'm kind ofwhere y'all come together. I
really am a neutral party. Sowhile I work on behalf of the
(09:21):
County and work for the county,certainly the county's interests
are, is this always my first? Ihave to make sure I'm looking
out for those first. But there'sa lot of room for me to kind of
move in within that space to Ithink I have a lot of latitude
to step in and kind of thinkabout help you all think about
(09:42):
how to address challenges thatmay be within a specific
discipline come up or or acrossthe system, and kind of think
about how to, how do we bestleverage resources that you
might have and put together likekind of cobble together.
Resources across the system. AndI think a lot of that is born
(10:04):
from when we think about those,those three branches of
government and the criminaljustice system, all of those are
often very siloed and separatedby design, right, right? And so
you all there's very specific,certainly responsibility lanes
of travel that don't oftenintersect, but they have to kind
(10:28):
of flow together. And so I kindof view myself as I think I'm
best positioned to just kind offloat in between there
Jay Armbrister (10:38):
where I am needed. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And hopefully
Katy Fitzgerald (10:42):
I'm helpful for people. That's always the thing
that I'm like, This is what Ithis is what I say. I do. You're
Jay Armbrister (10:48):
not creating more work. Hopefully not. So,
um, what has been kind of sowhat you're just saying you
started 2020 the it feels like alot. So 21 or 2222 oh my gosh,
the summer of 22 but it feelslike a lot. We were just babies
back then, really? No, that'snot true at all. Absolutely not.
I was old codger already bythen, but so in the, in the in
(11:13):
the three years, or whatever,what's been kind of the biggest,
I mean, what's been a goodsuccess, what's been the biggest
struggle?
Well, we're not we're payingyou, and you can't tell me one
damn thing that you've donethat's good. Well, I
Katy Fitzgerald (11:33):
have to pick one. I can rat a whole bunch of
things I think you all have donereally well. I think our
competency restoration programis one thing I would always like
I that was such an honor for meto be able to help you all me to
kind of lead that.
Jay Armbrister (11:47):
And for those of you that that may not understand
that competency restorationisn't where a person has been
found incompetent to stand trialand they have to go to the
hospital, State Hospital, for torestore competency and for an
evaluation, and that thatprocess has been taking anywhere
from 12 to 14 months, wherethese people just sit and
languish in jail. But as acounty, with Burt Nash, the
(12:08):
courts, the DA jail, us, we'veall come together to try to see
if we can get that system tohappen in our jail, instead of
having to wait for a bed to openup, hopefully keeping these
people from decompensating andjust languishing for that 12 to
14 months. So, yeah, sorry,yeah, and we are all deeply
proud of it. And so yes,
Katy Fitzgerald (12:28):
I mean, I think I would always say that some
other things. So probation wasreally struggling, getting a lot
of their clients assessed whenthe when there had been a court
order, just regular mentalhealth evaluation, and we were
able to, or I will never say, Idid these things. This is a
(12:51):
challenge, because I, because Imyself, did not do a lot, but
you
Jay Armbrister (12:55):
facilitated, yes, create the space. Okay, so
you, so you made
Katy Fitzgerald (12:59):
it happen. But we, we were able to work with
Burton Nash, and we have kind ofa dedicated assessor that work
has just, I mean, has beenphenomenal, yeah, and that it
was a huge win for probation andfor the courts. And then I think
just within the cjcc, I would, Ithink that we've done, really,
(13:21):
we've done a lot of work since2023 Sure, between like we, you
know, we had the assessmentcompleted. How are we
functioning against bestpractice standards, and then you
were part of our bylaws workgroup, right? We just really
revamped that, right? And justtotally changed how we govern
(13:42):
our you know, how we will begoverned, how we will hold
ourselves accountable, and thenthe strategic planning process,
yeah, it was almost the death ofme,
Jay Armbrister (13:53):
but it was a necessary evil. So
Katy Fitzgerald (13:56):
I think helping. So I think those I
would say I think are big. Thoseare the things that, when I look
back, I say, Well, I thatreally, yeah, I think those are
big things
Jay Armbrister (14:05):
I would say, like, from a law enforcement
perspective, and the murder ofGeorge Floyd created a vacuum
and a space for us to get betterand hold ourselves more
accountable. The I kind of feltlike, No, I came into office
right at the tail, at the tailend of the pandemic, and we were
kind of coming out of it. And Ifelt like the pandemic offered
(14:27):
the cjcc, for those of you, thecriminal justice Coordinating
Council, the opportunity toreally kind of rethink what it
is we were doing, because it wasbuilt with the best of
intentions, and it operated for,I don't know, several years pre
pandemic, probably two, four,okay, and, but it had kind of
lost its way, so to speak. And,and it was, it was an
(14:48):
opportunity for us to all aspartners, to kind of bring it
back and be like, hey, what?
What is our goal here? How do weget to that? And, and so, so you
were able to negotiate a lot ofthat streamlining and moving.
But also you had to take in theinput from everybody and decide,
kind of pare it down and decidewhat's what. And so I think
you're selling yourself a bitshort in that you didn't do it
(15:09):
because you did, but it was,it's, I don't think anybody
knows how difficult it is towrangle a judge, a da a sheriff,
and community members, you know,all at the same time who have
not, not differing values, butwe have competing values at
times. Yeah? So, so I think, Ithink it's easier to say, Oh,
yeah. You know, all these peoplecame together and did this great
(15:31):
job, but you really convened,you created the environment for
that to happen. So
Katy Fitzgerald (15:37):
y'all are hard to track down, but I've learned
by design, but I've learned, butI so I think sometimes the
challenge, and then the biggestchallenge, and the thing that I
enjoy the most is are the issometimes the same thing, being
able to that is always the mostthe design of the criminal
(15:58):
justice system, where it'ssometimes adversarial, yeah, but
mostly competing Right, rightvalues and and just the
structure can be is challengingto navigate, sure, especially, I
think, especially coming into aspace here where, you know, I
(16:18):
was in Charlotte for so long i iJust, it's hard to kind of
recreate. I was not sure what Iwas up against, sure, right? And
I'm an outsider and
Jay Armbrister (16:29):
like, how do you know now what you're up against
most of the time? Okay, keep youon your toes.
Katy Fitzgerald (16:35):
But as an outsider, sometimes this is
hard. This is a hard space,yeah, for sure, not, not one of
your own. You know, absolutelyit's a hard space anyways, yeah?
But then to come in, it's notlike, well, I'm from somewhere
else in Kansas, yeah, right. I'ma completely unknown commodity
coming in Alien
Jay Armbrister (16:58):
and in the most respectful way
Katy Fitzgerald (17:02):
we could go down a rabbit hole about that,
but the it's been challenging, Ithink for the most part, I was
lucky. I think you all arereally I walked into a really
good group of executives that atthe, you know, thinking, yeah,
who was at that table?
Jay Armbrister (17:19):
Sure, sure, totally. Well, everybody was
there for the right reasons, andAnd
Katy Fitzgerald (17:23):
y'all all work really well together. For like,
particularly disciplines. Youall as law enforcement, work
really well together. Usuallythat kind of that chiefs group,
the courts work really welltogether. Like the Yeah, the
partners were all there, and itwas a really good group of folks
that. So I wasn't needing to getbuy in for, like coming to the
table, right? That one of thechallenges that I think
(17:44):
particularly with the strategicplanning process and and I'm
thinking about as we're startingthe steps of implementation of
that Sure, a potential challengethat I think may just always be
a thing, is getting the buy into go deeper. So it's not just
come to the table and kind ofsurface level you guys did all
(18:06):
the surface level work before Igot here, right? And, and I, I
use the metaphor a lot of like,we're digging into the fat,
right? We're digging into themuscle now, right? That this is
where it things really get,well,
Jay Armbrister (18:19):
hard, yeah, and people will feel like they're
under the microscope, or thatthat we're looking in their
closets. And I can see how thatwould be frustrating. But again,
if you pull the pull the frameout, and you realize that you're
looking at an entire system, weall want it to be better, and we
want it to work correctly. Itmay never, that may never
happen. That may be but we cancertainly always be better.
(18:39):
Yeah, so, yeah, no, I think Icould see how that would be very
difficult. But you know, andagain, the courts have always
kind of operated in their ownsilo, and we are very fortunate.
And I hope you would agree withme that we have the courts buy
in and their participation.
There's a lot of places thatthat the chiefs and the sheriff
don't get along, and that thecourts and everybody else don't
get along, and we're veryfortunate in this community to
(19:02):
have really good relationshipswith all those,
Katy Fitzgerald (19:06):
Yep, yeah. And I think, I think in engaging the
buy in, or building buy in, totake the next step, which you
all each I'd have no, I have noagency or authority right over
you or over any partner, yeah,right. I don't get to say, okay,
chiefs, when we have our chiefsmeeting, I don't get to walk in
(19:28):
there and say, here's what y'allare all going to do, because
this is what the county wants,right? I mean, I guess I could
do that and I get, no, I don'tget the response I'm looking for
right, but the trying to besensitive how I how I hope you
would agree or and that, thatthe other partners would view
(19:53):
how I try to approach that isrecognizing, you know, that you
all have trying to really learnwhat your. Or like, what are the
concerns for you and for yourdiscipline? And certainly,
certainly, there are lots offolks at sitting at the cjcc
table in particular, who whohave, at different times, felt
very much under the microscopeand haven't, and that has not
(20:15):
been such a great feeling forthem, and don't want to
replicate that, right? And so Iso I try. It's really important
to me. Relationships are reallyimportant because I don't I'm
not successful at my job withoutthem, right? And which means I
can't help you be even moresuccessful without that. Like,
Jay Armbrister (20:35):
oh yeah, our success is shared, for sure. So
Katy Fitzgerald (20:38):
I so I try. I I tried to approach those with
making sure be in a space of,well, learning, what is the
concern for you, what is thebarrier for you? How can I work
with that, right? And there aretimes where the answer is, we're
just not going to work pastthis. Okay, so let's we're just
going to move on to the nextthing, right? And I try not to
(20:59):
force things. I mean, I hope youall experience. That's how I try
to work through that and work inknowing that. You know, one of
the hardest things, not just forfolks who have to intersect or
in be involved with the justicesystem, we always hear a lot
about trust. Does the publictrust the system? Yeah, and the
(21:19):
same can be true. I think forthe partners in the system, you
all have to be in a place atsome point where you know, you
all trust each other across thesystem. And so can I help build
that like I'm always kind oflooking for or watching for, how
can I help and where those arethe barriers? And
Jay Armbrister (21:40):
I think it also exposes a place that your work
gets harder is when two partnersdon't are not in the same lane
or on the same page and or evenmaybe even working against each
other, which may or may not havehappened in the last four years,
but it's it's very difficultwhen, when there's friction
(22:02):
between the two, and you're theone that eventually has to kind
of step in and be like, we'reall trying to get to the same
place. And so I think that kindof goes under the radar quite a
bit, that you end up having todo that a little bit.
Katy Fitzgerald (22:13):
Yeah, yeah. I can't remember if I said this in
my interview, but I remember oneof the so I had had to do a
slide, the one that theinterview that you had said, I
had had to do a PowerPoint of, Ican't even remember now what the
topic is, but one of the thingsthat that I initially had talked
about was how I view the role ofthis. So this is a similar role
(22:35):
to what I played when I was inMecklenburg County. And one of
the things I think is necessary.
And I think I am the therapistfor a lot of partners. You got
the training that you know youjust like, there are times you
just have to, unlike, like, Ineed, I need to be a safe space
right for y'all to be able tosay, here's what's happening.
(22:58):
And I so so that is veryimportant to me to maintain, to
be that for you all thatabsolutely, because I need to
understand what their dynamicsand things that are happening
that I'm not going to knowabout, and I don't need to know
all of it, right? But if I'mwatching, because I do, I think
a lot of my clinical trainingand my background, doing that
and working with people, I pickup on things, and I'm like, what
(23:22):
is happening, right? Yeah, why?
What's going on? And so I, Ithink I at one point wanted to
say, I view that part of my roleis not just understanding
policy, understanding data andhow to, you know, how do we
implement things, but it wasbeing a therapist and a referee,
and those are sometimes reallyor a barrier, or, yeah, like,
(23:47):
stay in two corners. And I thinksometimes those, those are,
that's a really important to me.
Those are very important, right?
No, I think because I don't knowthat, people always know how
necessary they are sometimes,unless you've been in that
space, and
Jay Armbrister (24:02):
I think it's safe to say that that was
probably not on the on theapplication. You know, how good
are you at keeping two executivelevel administrators, you know,
happy when they're not. So Ithink that's, well, I hope you
don't ever leave, because Idon't know, we'll get another
(24:23):
one. So really, the CJ the cjcc,is obviously pretty unique for
not just Douglas County, but fora lot of counties around us. I
mean, there's not that many. AndI think we are uniquely
situated, too, with a communitythat wants to fund resourcing,
but also we have certainresources within our community,
(24:46):
Burton ash, that other placesdon't have. And so how, how has
it been, as far as, like, justthe community, being able to
step in and fill some roles thatwe need in this space? The. And
by community I mean the Burtonashes and the heartlands and the
in the HH and all the differentthe community resources that we
(25:07):
have.
Katy Fitzgerald (25:08):
So I I have actually, that is one was one of
the things that was really avery pleasant surprise to walk
into going from a county of 1.2million people, sure, to a
county of 120,000 andgeographically a very different
setup, right? You know, DouglasCounty so rural outside of
(25:30):
Lawrence, right? And MecklenburgCounty, not so much and but, but
similar to and MecklenburgCounty was at the time that I
had left, and probably still ishad was kind of the richest
county in the in the state ofNorth Carolina, and the blue.in
(25:51):
the Red Sea. I
Jay Armbrister (25:52):
mean, you know what that happens? That's, is
that unfamiliar? It's like
Katy Fitzgerald (25:56):
there were some things were similar, the
Jay Armbrister (25:59):
blue Oasis
Katy Fitzgerald (26:00):
and but we, we were resource rich in some ways,
yeah, but not resourceaccessible, like the
accessibility of the resourceshere that you all as when I
think about the like theexecutives that I work with that
You You can just access. HH,right, like you can just call
(26:23):
right artists helping thehomeless, yeah, and they respond
Yeah. And because they'reamazing and they're all of those
resources, how accessible theyare, that has been that was
really different for me, sure,which doesn't maybe make sense.
No,
Jay Armbrister (26:40):
I think it absolutely does. I've always
been born and raised inLawrence. I know that Lawrence's
biggest weakness is Lawrence.
There are times that we can'tget out of our own way, but I've
also said that I feel and it's agood thing, but I feel like this
community loses sight of howgood we have it sometimes. And
this is another example of likepeople in other communities are
(27:02):
like, we have to stand up somegroup that will bring in, that
will come and take our folks wholeaving jail, and give them a
place to stay and a way to workand do these things. Whereas I
walked in and already hadartists helping the homeless, a,
H, H, you know, or we need, weneed this. We need some place
that we can take somebody havinga mental health crisis that
(27:23):
doesn't belong in jail, but itdoesn't, can't be at home. We
need to find something likethat. Oh, this community funded
a treatment and recovery center,you know. So I've, I feel like,
at times, we lose sight of how,how good this community has
been, but also, I we've alsogrown pretty big, you know, in
that, in that space, and nowwe're having to navigate a how
(27:44):
do we, how do we help othercommunities figure out what
we've been doing, while alsotrying to make sure that we're
helping our community first, asopposed to, you know, folks who
are coming here looking forhelp, but trying to help
everybody together. Yeah, it's
Katy Fitzgerald (28:01):
definitely for a long time, Mecklenburg County,
we had talked about and wanted acrisis 24 hour 24 hour crisis
center. And in the NorthCarolina, until a year or so
ago, was also not a Medicaidexpansion state. So we had
similar
Jay Armbrister (28:19):
last Yeah, we're close.
Katy Fitzgerald (28:23):
So it so Medicaid was so that also it's
not like we had Medicaid andKansas. Did you know Douglas
County for sure in that regard,but we the structure, the way
that that behavioral healthservices are accessed through
the managed care structure in inNorth Carolina really just made
that challenging. We did havesome different kinds of housing
(28:46):
options set up, but it just thevast so I don't want to say that
Charlotte and Mecklenburg Countydidn't have all those resources,
but it's, it's just not I mean,they're at my finger. They're at
our fingertips here, which just,and I don't think that it's just
because we're smaller. I don'tknow. I don't think that that's
(29:09):
it, having worked with a lot ofI mean, it's the the real,
genuine interest andwillingness, again, not just a
frontline staff, but all the wayup through these, through the
executive leadership sure theseagencies is there's buy in, is
just that that was a pleasantadjustment to make.
Jay Armbrister (29:27):
And again, I think my, one of my favorite
things about Lawrence, that inDouglas County, that people
don't that lose sight of it, isthat we are willing to do the
extra in assistance to ourfellow human like, we've had a
lot of over the last coupleyears, a lot of talk about
homelessness and chronichomelessness, and how did we get
to this place, you know? And alot of people like to draw a
(29:50):
line right back to, I don'tremember what it was, 2020, the
winter, but the city opened up ahotel, they bought out a hotel
and then housed people in there.
And of course, the hotel. Got itgot destroyed, and people were
very upset because the city thenhad to go back in. But it was,
while it's frustrating and it'shard to kind of make that okay,
I was still proud of the citybecause they they put their
(30:12):
money where their mouth was is,and they helped the least
fortunate among us. And I wouldrather learn the hard rules by
helping them too much and nothelping enough. And I think
that's where I feel like, that'swhere Douglas County is, is that
we, we will fail trying too hardto help somebody. So if you
could, so let's say this, thislittle podcast that's going to
(30:37):
have about nine listens to itover the next year, if this got
beamed into every home in the inour community, and everybody had
to listen to it, what's the onething that you would want them
to know about, about you andwhat you do, or just about the
system itself? Okay? So I have acouple things. Oh, okay. Roman
(30:57):
numeral one.
Katy Fitzgerald (31:03):
I've never been one for following instructions,
sure, if you should probably notbe surprised. So I think the
overarching, I think they're allrelated, though, so I don't like
not I think there's justdifferent components of this,
and this might get me run out oftown, but this is what I would
this is just what I would say tothat. So I think the overarching
(31:27):
thing that I would want peopleto know is the our criminal the
criminal justice system, and notjust the Douglas County criminal
justice system, but the criminaljustice system here and
everywhere it is, is not astraightforward No, as it feels
like or as what it may seemlike, it should be sure. And
(31:52):
underneath that, a couple of thethings that I think are just
important components of that forfor me, I think one no one
agency. We've talked about thisalready, no one agency. No one
individual has authority oragency over another, right? So I
(32:12):
don't get to tell you whatyou're going to do. You don't
get to tell Baldwin City policewhat they're going to do. The
judge may get to tell some ofus, but only in certain
contexts, right? Sure and sochange in this space. And you
all have experiences and beenpart of this change in this
space as a result ofrelationships that are built
across our partner agencies, inmy view, that are based on
(32:38):
mutual respect, trust andunderstanding Sure, and that
change takes time, yeah, yeah,because we there's just, there's
not some overruling authoritythat says y'all are going to go
do this now, right? I think thesecond thing are we that is
missed, and I think it's easy inthis community. I can see how in
(33:00):
this community it's easy to getlost. But the the criminal
justice space is not quite asentrepreneurial as like our
human our other human servicesspaces are. We don't have a lot
we don't have as much room tokind of take a new idea and run
with it, because the third Romannumeral, number three, um, the
(33:20):
boundaries of the of the justicesystem are not necessarily set
by local rules, local resources,local institutions. Sure, right?
You you may want to dosomething. Yeah, and state law
is going to say, Nope, you don'tget to do it that way. Douglas
County,
Jay Armbrister (33:36):
I've got an example. Failures to appear. I
was trying to get I was tryingto get it to where, if somebody
missed a court date and got awarrant for the rest, we warrant
for the rest, we would have oneday a month where that person
could freely appear and get anew court date. And I would talk
to the judge, and the judge islike, that's a great idea, but
it can't happen. I'm like, what?
Why? He said, Well, once aperson has been arraigned on a
(33:56):
charge, they've been given anattorney. I cannot as a judge. I
cannot speak to them. I cannothave them here. I can't have
them in front of me for anythingwithout their attorney. And you
would have to coordinate it thatthey would have their attorney
with them. And that's verydifficult thing to do, I mean,
because those attorneys havetheir own schedules. And so it
was, it was with the best ofintentions, and everybody was on
(34:19):
board, like, yeah, we need tofix this. We simply couldn't do
it in that way. Now we'relooking at other things, but
that's a perfect example of justhow the system itself prevented
us from doing better,
Katy Fitzgerald (34:31):
and it so all of the like that we are go. And
I think it's a little differentthan when you think about like
our housing system, right? Orsome of the some of the work
that we've been able to do thatthis community has been able to
do through like establishing theTRC, right? That was really you
can take an idea and you have,you don't have as many barriers,
or the pasture fences aren'tquite as tight as I think they
(34:55):
are set for the those of us inthe justice system. And so. So
all of that to say, I think Iget, I can, it's frustrating,
right? For folks like when itfeels like what they see is when
you just didn't fix that, right?
It's really simple. Why didn'tyou just fix right? Right? It's
not that simple. Yeah, it's notthat easy. And just because
(35:16):
you're not seeing that, right? Iwould not want what I would not
want people to do, especially inthis community and with our with
the with you all as my partners,I wouldn't want people to take
that as we just don't care,right, right, or that we're just
happy, and to accept wholecloth, the system as it exists.
Because that's not necessarilytrue. That doesn't mean that
(35:40):
we're not working on Okay,right? If we can't do it this
way, well, what happens if we goaround this other side door?
That's right, people just maynot always see that. Yeah. And
so then I think to the kind ofperpetual question, you know, I
would say what, I just hopepeople can trust us, which is
the million dollar question,that's what
Jay Armbrister (36:03):
I'm hearing, is that what you're asking for is
grace, yes, and grace only comeswhen they trust. And so I, and
I, I will always respect ahealthy dose of skepticism,
because the system has has beenbroken. It has broken other
people. Those are realities. Butas you said, I just wish people
(36:27):
would be like, I'm about to getreally angry at this one thing,
and I'm going to give you fiveminutes explain to me why I
shouldn't be angry. Go, Irespect that, and I'm going to
take that five minutes and doeverything I can. And at the end
of that, if they're still upset,they've earned it, I respect it,
and let's figure it out. Butmost of the times, by the time
that's over with, they're like,I had no idea, or that makes
(36:50):
sense, or, yeah, that is a thatis a big elephant to eat in one
bite. So I,
Katy Fitzgerald (36:57):
I love that.
There's so many there's just somany nuances, sure, to how
people come into the system, andin what way, like the process
through which people come intothe system, their exit ramps,
the way that we can or can'tcreate exit ramps for people.
And it's, it's, I know it's, itfeels, it feels bad to say, but
(37:19):
that's just how the system is.
Yeah. And I don't always want usto be complacent and go, Oh,
that's just the way the systemis. We just that's, you have to
go talk to Topeka, yeah.
Jay Armbrister (37:32):
And they don't want it. I don't. I don't want
people to just accept thatanswer either. You know, it's
like our hands are tied. We'vedone all we can do again, that's
okay. Well, then, then, now,where do we go with this and
that, whether it be Topeka, orif it goes over my head, or goes
back to the voters, I mean, anynumber of things, but I, I think
that's, I think that's a greatthing to ask.
Katy Fitzgerald (37:54):
Didn't not just run out of No, no,
Jay Armbrister (37:59):
I hope you say something. Those are. I just
think
Katy Fitzgerald (38:02):
that that's really and I don't think people
know that unless they're likeus, and have spent so much time,
sure, enmeshed in this andgoing, what? Because there's a
lot of times too that, I thinkwe think, but this is so simple.
Why can't we just do this? Andthen we go, oh, that's why it's
not going to work, right?
Jay Armbrister (38:19):
Right? Yeah.
Well, and when it, when it isyour 24/7, waking moment, what
you're doing all the time, welose sight of a lot of things
because we're just so deeplyinvolved in them. So, yeah, I
totally get that. What's, what'skind of, what's the thing right
now for cjcc, and what's, kindof on the horizon. So
Katy Fitzgerald (38:42):
we just so this is kind of we've spent the last
18 months, 1820 months, kind ofin a period of evaluating our
evaluating what changes. Whereare we at? Where do we want to
go? How do we get there andthrough a lot of different
(39:02):
things. So kind of starting withthat assessment that the Justice
Management Institute did withall of you, against the national
standards, and then we revised,spent last year revising the
bylaws and kind of ourgovernance structure, and all of
that kind of has culminated withthat the strategic plan. So in
February, you all just adopted athree year strategic plan at
(39:26):
your February meeting. And sothat will go through 20 that is
set to go through December of2027, we are taking that to the
Board of County Commissionersthe first part of April for just
to present it to them, we have anew leadership structure, so a
lot so we're kind of bringingthe bylaws to life through we
(39:49):
have a new executive committee,I won't say new, like we have an
executive committee, right?
Because that whole structure isnew, who will be overseeing,
kind of the implementation of.
Of the strategic plan. So thisthe two priorities that you all
are getting started on right noware the first one focusing on
(40:09):
system wide data, which is gonnabe
Jay Armbrister (40:16):
a lot. It is with data rich, interpretation
poor, once
Katy Fitzgerald (40:20):
we start kind of getting into that space, and
particularly as we think about,you know, having new district
attorneys getting used to a lotof the the information that's
available to him, so kind ofcatching his office up to what,
what information they have, andso data across the system, we're
(40:43):
starting on that, and then thecommunication strategy. So the
other part of the standards thatwe didn't, we just didn't really
have a lot, and I don't knowthat we've ever really talked or
thought about this, is astrategic communications plan
that really outlines probablyall of you as agencies have kind
(41:05):
of this is how you communicate.
This is what you do. These arethe core messaging principles.
Real and we as a cjcc, eventhough we're not an authority, a
body of authority, it's stillreally important that as a body,
you all kind of agree about howart, because we're all
community. If we're talkingabout the cjcc, we're
(41:25):
communicating on lots ofpeople's behalf, yeah, right,
that's for sure. So so we'rekind of, we're starting to pull
together, and I think we'remeeting in a couple of weeks,
that work group is going to cometogether of PIOs to start
working on developing astrategic communications plan
for you all the full so I'mgoing to do a shameless plug.
Oh, okay, great. So I workedwith it with the county. It last
(41:48):
for a lot last week and thefirst part of this week to kind
of revamp the cjcc website, toto incorporate and kind of show
off a little bit more of thechanges that you all made. So
the website is new, or there'snew content and new layout of
things. So I'm going to probablyget it where I should have
(42:10):
written this down in my notes,but DG, CO, ks.gov, and then the
forward slash, cjcc, so we havethe new bylaws up there members.
And then we did a section on thestrategic plan. And so the four
priority areas that are laid outthere, there's a document that
or a link that outlines theprocess that you all went
(42:34):
through to get to those fourpriority areas. And then we also
have the entire strategic plan,which is 97 pages. A lot is also
linked there. So there's a lotof information, I think, over
time, as we start to have, as westart to figure out kind of what
is it that we're reporting outto to you all as members of the
(42:56):
cjcc, to the public, to back tothe county commission as we
start to have outcomes andfigure out what is the
reporting. The way that we'regoing to do that, we'll be
adapting that section of thewebsite, but there's a lot of
new information there, and we'rejust getting really started,
(43:17):
yeah, in in the that's going tobe very meaty. Both of those
two, I think both of those twopriorities are, are pretty
hefty, because communications isprobably a lot, just like
there's more to the criminaljustice system, there's probably
a lot more to communication.
That's for
Jay Armbrister (43:36):
sure, what I for sure than what I know? Yeah,
well, there's one thing. There'sone thing to put the information
out. That's the other thing toget them to get them to hear it
and hear it the way you want itto hurt. So, so I think that
pretty well rounded out. Forthat part of it. I'm gonna go
with, I'm gonna go with the funquestions. Now these are the
ones that you sent me. I'm alittle disappointed if I sent
(43:57):
those to you, because now you'vehad time to think about it, but,
but George is too good to mekeep you in the loop. So it's a
simple question, what was yourfirst concert? What was your
most recent, and what was yourfavorite? And those can all be
the same thing. But
Katy Fitzgerald (44:15):
Okay, so my first concert was Brian White,
who probably nobody outside of
Jay Armbrister (44:22):
Texas. Yeah, no, that doesn't sound familiar. I
went to school a kid named BrianWhite,
Katy Fitzgerald (44:26):
no. And, you know, I can't even now remember,
like songs be reallydisappointed, like when I go
back and I had cassette tapes,yeah,
Jay Armbrister (44:34):
and all seven listeners are now spotifying
him. Yes,
Katy Fitzgerald (44:38):
I'm gonna, well, I'm gonna be doing the
same thing when I leave here,but it was at Billy Bob's Texas.
Where is that in Texas? It isin, is in Fort Worth, okay, it's
in the stockyards I've heard,which is the North, the north
side of Fort Worth. Okay, ifyou're ever in Fort Worth, you
have to go to Billy Bob's. It'sjust a, it's just a Fort Worth,
institution after Bucha. I mean,buckies. Came later. Billy Bob's
(45:01):
was first, yeah, but Billy Bob'sTexas. It's just this little
Yeah, it's your traditionalTexas Honky Tonk. So I saw Brian
White there.
Jay Armbrister (45:11):
Did it have an acre of dance floor? Yes? Like
Gillies? Yes, it's
Katy Fitzgerald (45:15):
a yes, yeah, so, but you have to go check it
out. And you should just checkout the stockyards too, sure?
That is off topic of thequestion. Well, my
Jay Armbrister (45:25):
funny Gillies story is I went through one
afternoon when I was in trainingin Dallas, and I got on the
bull, and this dude ran thebull, and I wrote it for eight
seconds, and then I heard myselfyell the dumbest thing I've ever
said in my life. I yelled, Isthat all you've got, you know,
and I'm looking at him, he's gota cowboy hat. This guy has. He
actually, he does that with hisI mean, 1.2 seconds later, I had
(45:47):
a dislocated elbow, and I waspiled up in the corner on a
bunch of mats. So, yeah, he was,Oh, fantastic. Okay, well, I'm
too old. I got compromised hips.
Now I can't be doing that.
Katy Fitzgerald (45:59):
Um, most recent. What were the other
ones? Most recent
Jay Armbrister (46:02):
and favorite and favorite? Okay,
Katy Fitzgerald (46:10):
so my most recent was before it so the
little town that I lived inNorth Carolina, Kannapolis,
their parks and recs where DaleEarnhardt's from, yes,
Jay Armbrister (46:21):
it's that, because I'm because it's in
here. If I remember one morething, I'm gonna forget my
anniversary date.
Katy Fitzgerald (46:27):
Kannapolis is known for Dale Earnhardt and
cannon mills. Cannon tells Sure,but the Parks and Rec did every
summer they had this, like,concert series, and so people
like the Commodores, oh my gosh.
Like it wasn't like recentpeople dropped their palm on me.
Recent people who were, youknow, big touring on the big
(46:50):
stage, but they're affordable.
Uncle
Jay Armbrister (46:55):
cracker. Oh yeah for sure. Okay,
Katy Fitzgerald (46:58):
alright, that was my most recent one. Yeah,
all
Jay Armbrister (47:01):
right, favorite, favorite.
Katy Fitzgerald (47:05):
Garth Brooks puts on a good show.
Jay Armbrister (47:07):
I've heard that my wife seen him a couple times,
yeah? Show, yeah. He is such agood entertainer. Yeah, I think
I would have to. Dude can fillup stadiums like three nights in
a row. So I pretty impressive.
Okay, that's fair. How long ago,does he am and where?
Katy Fitzgerald (47:24):
Probably, I think it was the Fort Worth
Convention Center, yeah, in thelast the last, it was like, in
some of me feel old.
Jay Armbrister (47:35):
You want to know why you feel old? Because I am,
yeah,
Katy Fitzgerald (47:40):
that's like 1996 oh, my gosh, that wasn't
fantastic. Yeah, I
Jay Armbrister (47:45):
was, I was cool back in 1996 that's how long ago
was I? Okay? I was here, yeah,exactly. But he's a
Katy Fitzgerald (47:58):
good one. You should go, Okay, well, well, 20
Jay Armbrister (48:01):
Yeah, yeah, the 20 years ago, yes, it was, oh
God, yep, I just had my 30 yearsago, my 30th high school
reunion. So yeah, we'reofficially old. Okay, I think
that's all I have for us today,unless you have anything
questions for me. No so thankyou again for joining us.
(48:23):
Thanks, like I said, the ninepeople who listen to this are
just going to be impressed outof their pants because of the
work that you do. But thank youso much for everything that you
do. Thank you. Everything thatyou do for me and my agency is
specifically but other thanthat, thanks a lot, and we look
forward to many future years oftrying to navigate this, this
(48:45):
bumpy road full of potholes,trap doors and asterisks, so
Yep. All right. Thank you.
Katie, thank you. All right.
Bye.
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