March 6, 2024 • 59 mins
When Philip and I escaped to Tybee Island, little did we know that our new condo's acoustics would become the backdrop for a heart-to-heart on marriage that's as real as it gets. It's not every day you find two lovebirds willing to spill the beans on keeping the fires burning after 18 years, but here we are—juggling humor, honesty, and a dash of warrior spirit. Join us as we wander through the winding paths of partnership, from the profound to the practical (yes, even dishwasher loading strategies make the cut), and how we're tackling the Four Laws of Love with two feet firmly on the ground.
Step into our living room as Philip unpacks insights from his men's group about the trials of marriage and divorce, while I reflect on the steps we've taken to ensure our relationship remains the main event, kids notwithstanding. We're talking full transparency here—the deep dives into communication, the perils of 'agreeing to disagree,' and those pivotal vulnerabilities that turn trust from a buzzword into the bedrock of our bond. And for those wondering about the longevity of love, we share our secrets to dodging the infidelity bullet and keeping the connection as exhilarating as a first date.
So, what's the takeaway from two nearly-two-decade veterans of matrimony, you ask? It's the art of prioritizing one another, the importance of shared happy places (couple's vacations for the win!), and the transformative power of facing conflicts head-on, no holds barred. Tune in for an episode that's less about presenting a flawless love story and more about the grit and grace it takes to carve out a fulfilling journey, together.
Go to my website virago247.net for all things Virago 24/7
You can email me at virago247podcast@gmail.com
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Facebook: Virago 24/7
Thanks for listening and don't forget to share, share, share!
Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!
Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I am your host, Lyanette Talley, and you are
listening to Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
(00:24):
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
Hello.
(00:44):
I always try to figure out anew way of starting the show,
but hello is always what comesto my mind.
So boring, so generic, buthello everybody.
Virago has hit the road and Iactually brought my equipment.
(01:04):
The acoustics here are so muchbetter than there are in my she
Cave, but I brought mymicrophones and my equipment and
we are in Tybee Island, Georgia, in our new condo and I have my
partner in crime here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Felipe, hey, beautiful people.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Hello, how can I start my show?
You know, in a very excitingway.
I'm always like hello, that'sso boring.
Hey, that's you, though, that'sall I got.
Oh, you guys heard that.
I mean it's you, that's yourpersonality.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I got you, let's back .
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, yes, you be you.
Don't worry about beingsomebody else.
I thought you were.
I thought you were calling meboring because I know that's the
last thing you are just what?
yesterday or the day before, Iwas like you were laughing at me
and I said I got to keep you onyour toes and you call me crazy
.
And I said, yes, I am, becausewe got to keep things exciting.
So I got to bring the crazy outbecause you, it's like a sneak
(02:09):
attack.
I don't want you to get boredwith me, felipe.
Like we said, I don't need yougetting bored with me.
So, anyways, we are here awayfrom my she cave and I like the
acoustics here and the she cave.
It is like a cave.
So we sometimes have to, likeyou know, watch how we talk into
the microphone.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But today, yeah, it's nice, it's a cloudy day, but
we're happy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
We're in our happy place.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
This has become my happy place.
So, anyways, we're here todaybecause we like to talk and
Philip has some things that hewants to bring to Virago.
Why?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Philip has something to bring to Virago.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Oh well, okay, Fine, okay, we have some stuff that we
want.
Listen, we like to talk aboutmarriage.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
We've done it a few times and yeah, actually my
first time on here was talkingabout marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Why are you trying to sound all sexy and stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean that's just my voice.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
You brought a little bit low where you're like yeah
wait, that's my radio voice.
That's your radio voice.
All right, let me hear yourradio voice, philip.
Hey beautiful people, I'm alucky, lucky lady.
I get to hear that voice everyday.
(03:34):
Yes, you are Actually.
Actually, I do like that deepvoice.
Sometimes I'm like, all right,back it up, say that again, and
you get all embarrassed andstuff and I say it again and
then you say it again, all right, so no, anyways, it's
interesting because we've beenwanting to talk about marriage
things not that we're experts oranything, but we like to talk
(03:56):
about it because we're going on18.
No, we are at 18, not going on18.
We're going on 19.
Oh damn.
Yeah.
Man, I'm not really on it, butit's ironic that we've been
pushing it off.
Pushing it off, and I thinkthis is a good time because in
your men's group, as we'vementioned before, you're a part
(04:18):
of a men's group at a church inour area, at your church, at our
church.
It's a long story, people, it'sa long story for another time,
but you're a part of a men'sgroup and you guys are actually
talking.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, last Friday we had a men's group discussion on
marriage and one of our membersis does divorce care at our, at
our church, and he was theperson leading the discussion
and I thought it was perfectbecause you know, we've been
(04:54):
talking about having adiscussion on marriage.
And then he had us.
He wanted us to watch a videoprior to coming into our men's
group that morning and herequested that you watch the
video with your wife.
And so we watched the video,you and I, on the Four Laws of
(05:15):
Marriage by Jimmy Evans, andthen Robert had a bunch of
questions on marriage anddivorce, and so I agreed to even
answer the divorce questions.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Cause I told you this morning sometimes I forget I
was married.
We're walking, he's like we'regoing to talk about marriage and
there's some questions on there, but you know we can't relate
to the divorce questions, sowe'll just skip those.
And I'm like, um, you know,you've been divorced, like you
were married before me and therewas a whole divorce.
And you're like, oh yeah, Iforgot about.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I do.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I'm like do you really?
I do, you can't do that.
You can't forget about yourfirst marriage.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
That's true.
It's funny, cause, um, asRobert was going around asking,
we asked everyone to um, causewe have some new members in our
men's group.
So he asked everyone to say youknow how many years you've been
married?
You know the age of your kids?
And so one of the guys said,well, this is my first marriage.
And of course we startedlaughing like okay, you're about
(06:22):
to have a second one.
And uh, so then, as I wastalking, I was like, oh yeah,
cause you know, I was the lastperson to talk, cause we went
around the table and I happenedto be the last person where I
was seated, and so I had tothink about it.
I was like, oh yeah, this isnot my first marriage, but yeah,
it's not something I usuallythink about anyway, so, it is
(06:45):
what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, here we are All right.
Since this is you know I knowit's my podcast, but I feel like
you want to drive this train,I'll take over the wheel when I
feel like I need to.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, like you do in real life.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, I'm going to have you leave, but if you're
not driving the train the way Ithought you should drive it, I'm
just going to take it over.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Like you tried to do when we were driving.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Okay, Okay, Listen, Phillip, when we were driving
here, right there's a strip likeokay, if anybody has ever been
to South, like south of Georgia,like you go through Macon, from
Macon to Savannah, they'redoing a lot of construction.
It's been probably the past 15years, the same kind of
construction and they're makingsome progress, but there's
(07:32):
there's still some stuff goingon and there's like these
concrete barriers and a lot, of,a lot of curves going on on
this highway and you were likedriving with one arm drinking
from the other, like takingthese, these curves, like like
you were a race car driver orsomething at night, in the dark.
And let me clarify.
It was.
It was I thought I was, I washolding on from for dear life
(07:55):
Like.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I was drinking a Red Bull Because, you know, and
that's like you drinking on onehand and driving all crazy.
So no, I wasn't drinking.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
You were hugging those curves.
And I said listen, I want tomake it down to the beach
Because I've been lookingforward to this for the past few
weeks and I'm not.
I'm not ready to like go toheaven yet Got it, so anyways.
So, yeah, sometimes I got to.
You know, be a backseat driver,Call it what you want.
Call it what you want.
All right, when?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
are we going to start ?
Where are we going to start?
We're going to start with somemarriage questions, the Four
Laws of Marriage.
Okay, let's talk about thatfirst.
Let's do that, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So that's what the video was about.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So the video it says Four Laws of Marriage and a
couple of things that he talkedabout is the Four Laws.
You know, if you follow theseFour Laws it will make sure that
your marriage is successful.
Okay, 100% chance for successin marriage when you do these
Four Laws of Love.
(08:54):
He says.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Okay.
So before we get into the Laws,do you feel like people get
into marriages without reallythinking about who they're
marrying and that's why there'sa lot of divorce?
Or even if you quote, unquote,pick the one that maybe wasn't
(09:17):
meant for you, do these laws, ifyou follow these laws, could
they work?
I feel like we get intomarriages that with the wrong
person, but would these lawswork?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Would these laws work if you married the wrong person
?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I know this is why I'm here Hard hitting questions.
I should be on TV somewhere.
Doing the evening news, askingthe hard hitting questions, we
go off track.
We were watching the morningshow on Apple TV with Reese
Witherspoon and Jennifer Anistonand a bunch of other people.
(09:59):
Steve Carrell is in there, butyeah, I feel like man, that was
my, that was my path.
But then I'm watching the show.
I'm like there's a lot offreaking drama behind the scenes
and I don't know.
I don't know if I would haveworked well in that environment.
I was going to say.
I was going to say made it.
But I'm like I could have madeit.
Yeah, I just probably wouldn'thave worked well in those
(10:19):
environments with these men.
Anyways, go on.
So I know.
Okay, back on track.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
But so that's a good question, but these four laws
work with the wrong person.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay.
So in your first marriage,whether we say it was wrong
person or not, if you hadfollowed these laws, do you
think you would still be marriedto her?
Oh, that is a very goodquestion, all right.
Well, let's go through the lawsand then you can answer the
question.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Let me look at that because, as I go through the
laws and I'll think, I'll thinkabout that and then I'll come
back and answer your question.
Okay, so let me do that.
All right.
All right.
So the first law is law.
Well, this is all coming fromGenesis to 2425.
Therefore, shall a man leavehis father and his mother and
shall cleave unto his wife andthey shall be one flesh and they
(11:10):
will both naked, the man andhis wife, and we're not ashamed.
So, based on those two verses,he came up with the four laws of
marriage.
And the first law is law ofpriority A man shall leave his
father and mother.
If you have to choose, youchoose your spouse over family,
(11:34):
parents, in-laws, children.
Your spouse has priority overfamily.
So that's the first law.
And that means the mostimportant person in relationship
is your.
In your life is your spouse,other than your relationship
with Jesus?
She has top priority overanything else.
(11:54):
She comes first, and most ofthe things that destroy
marriages are good things thatare out of priority.
What do you think of?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
that.
I think that's right.
I feel like with us that's howit is.
We love our children, we loveour families, but you and I come
first, above all of that 100%.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, and I think I've already told you this, but,
as our pastor said last Sundaythat he tells his kids all the
time I chose my wife, I wasstuck, I was stuck with y'all,
or something like that.
So, but you know, and our kidsknow, our number one priority
not that they're not a priority,but they're going to be gone
(12:43):
and this kind of goes to one ofthe things that we'll talk about
but that Robert brought up wasthat most he said, what do you
think, out of all these yearsI've been doing divorce care and
all the books that you read,when does, when does the divorce
happen?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
When the kids are grown.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Exactly when they're out the house.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
A lot of them.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
A lot of them.
He said the majority of themarriages happened then because,
you know, the priority has beentheir kids.
And now the kids are gone andthey really don't know their
wife or their husband and nowthey're like who are you?
You're not the person.
I married and I've been devoted, or we've been devoted to our
(13:27):
kids and they've been number onepriority, not us.
I'd still go back to, and I haveto thank Carolyn, my sisters
that was one of the things shedid early on in our marriage was
to say, hey, y'all need to havea vacation and, like Robert
always tells us, you know,vacation is with your wife.
(13:48):
When you go on a trip with yourkids, that's a family trip.
That's not a vacation, it's notat all.
So we made a priority becauseCarolyn and still dead in us to
go have a vacation once a year,just the two of us, and it is
(14:09):
definitely the best thing thatwe've ever done for our marriage
.
So long priority.
I agree with that 100%.
Your marriage, your wife, haveto be first over kids, over
parents.
If you have to choose hopefullyyou don't have to, but your
marriage has to be a number onepriority, all right.
(14:30):
So that's number one.
I don't think we have any inputon that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
All right.
So you have to pursue and showcleave unto his wife.
And he says that cleave in theoriginal Hebrew means to pursue
with all your energy.
Cleave means like to climb amountain.
It means to use all your energyfor something.
So marriage is work.
From the very beginning Godtold us marriage is work and it
(14:57):
doesn't work unless you work atit.
We have this romanticmisconception that if I have to
work at the relationship there'ssomething wrong with it.
And a lot of people trulybelieve if I have to work at my
marriage, it means I didn'tmarry my soulmate.
Tell me what do you think it up?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, even though I believe that we we've always
said that there's multiplesoulmates, so we feel like we,
our souls, are super connected,but we still have had to quote,
unquote work on it, and so Ifeel like that's.
The other question is like whatcause?
I feel like there's some peoplethat are in marriages that
(15:41):
aren't meant to be and it's justlike like it's truly working
and it's taxing and it's like,and so people are it's.
I think it's dangerous to say,oh, marriage is work, marriage
is work, marriage is work, andso when people are really truly
working at it but it's reallynot going anywhere, they feel
like, oh, this is what marriageis, and they kind of stay in it.
(16:02):
I get that and that's what themindset, or that's what has been
preached is marriage is work.
Marriage is work.
I think there's a difference.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well, the difference is if you had to add this one
last little sentence to that.
But you have to see goodresults.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You can't always be working.
Yeah, and think that cause youhave.
Once you see the result, a goodresult from the work that you
put in, then you know, I don'tknow, I just, I don't know, for
some reason I don't like.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I don't like that phrase.
Marriage is work.
Right, because some people areworking hard.
Yeah, you're right, and it'snot going anywhere Cause you're
not getting rich.
But they feel like this is, thisis what it should feel like.
I feel like, yeah, it's work,but it shouldn't be like taxing
on your spirit, on your soul.
You know what I'm saying.
(16:50):
Yeah, your emotions might be.
You know, there's times whereI've been crying to you or
you've been upset or I've beenupset, but deep down it's not
really like, it's notdetrimental to my spirit.
It's just that situation and Iknow in my heart that this is
just something that we have toovercome, to pass it.
There's a difference betweenknowing like this is temporary
(17:13):
versus like, wow, this is whatthis person brings out of me is
like the sadness, or this thisagain, this is the result.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, it's the result .
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And that's dangerous to always say, oh, it's work,
it's work, it's work for them,the people that are really yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know you have to get, you have to put in some
work to be intentional.
You know, that's the word Ilove to use.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
So okay.
So I know we have a lot ofconversations about marriage.
I don't remember if I heardthis on a podcast on the radio,
if it was in the video, but oryou taught you and I talked
about it about in our work.
We take continue educationclasses.
Was that with you?
(17:58):
Okay, so we take a lot ofcourses to get, better to get
better.
And then with marriage, it'slike we don't, we don't do yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So what was that was with you, right?
Robert actually opened up thediscussion after he asked
everyone you know how longthey've been married?
And then he said well, how manyof you at work have to take
continue education courses andhow many of you have to do team
building at work and you know,do you have to get cert,
(18:29):
certifications and upkeep andstuff like that?
So you know, obviously themajority of the guys said yes,
they do.
They kept, you know, theyraised, they rose the end.
So he said, well, this is funny, but all of us are married.
So how many of y'all actuallylike take some courses on
marriage, read books on marriage?
I mean, if you can do this atwork, you should be able to do
(18:51):
this on your marriage, becauseit's not going to happen just
because you wake up everymorning that your marriage is
going to be amazing.
So those were.
He made a good point becauseyou know not, as many hands went
up when he asked thosequestions.
You know, how many times didy'all take a course on it?
(19:14):
And then I think the church hadoffered one and one of the guys
was like, yeah, you know, thechurch offered one like a year
or two ago, and he said yeah, soI just took one and then the
other kind of group was likeyeah, but that really was like
three or four years ago, so youknow that was a great point,
because you know we're marriedand it's not like something just
(19:35):
going to osmosis, you're justgoing to get better with it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And I think also I mean, you know some people I
know we've read books or we'veread certain things, but maybe
not everyone is into that kindof stuff.
But I also think, sitting downand just talking I don't know
how, how, I know we do that, butI don't know how common that is
for people to really sit downand talk to and really talk
(20:04):
about the real thing yeah, doyou think that happens often Of?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
course not.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I don't think so yeah yeah, yeah, you just want to
just throw things under and putit in a closet.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah.
Sweep it under the rug, put itin the couch cushions with
pennies, all right, you know,put it in a suitcase and keep it
there and, you know, still walkaround with it.
So, and the other things on thelaw pursuit says it needs of a
woman to one woman needs to havesecurity, open and honest
(20:39):
communication, soft, non-sexualaffection and leadership.
Needs of a man honor andrespect, sex friendship,
domestic support.
What do you think of that?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I agree 100%.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I agree, I agree 1000%.
And if you practice the lawpursuit, you tell your spouse
your first.
You're not a burden, you're nota distraction.
I love serving you.
What do you need?
Serving each other is the onlyway a marriage works.
Any comment on that?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, it's true.
So the times where I feel yes,for sure I don't want to speak
for all women, but I think themajority of us do want that
security and the times where Ifelt insecure were times where I
wasn't feeling insecure Likeyou were showing that, like I
(21:39):
wasn't a priority, that otherthings were a priority and I
just have to deal with certainthings.
It is what it is, this is who Iam, this is what I do types,
personality, and so it would.
It didn't feel secure, right,and I acted very insecure, right
, especially since I'm acompetent, freaking woman.
You made me feel insecure is alot of the times when you, I
(22:01):
didn't feel like I was apriority 100% yeah, definitely.
Yeah, and I think with you knowme, that's what you wanted.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, but I had those discussions.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes but I think a lot of the times you weren't
listening to me.
You were, you were hearing, butyou weren't like truly
listening.
I feel like in the past fewyears I have finally caught on.
Yeah, I do, don't you think?
Why did it take you so long,philip?
It took you like 15 years.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's true, I'm a flawed individual.
Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
You know, you know what.
And I was patient.
Don't say that I wasn't youwere patient.
Don't say don't say that I'm nota patient person because I was
patient.
No, I mean, I'm not saying it'sall you, but in in that realm
of me feeling secure, I I feellike in the past, maybe four to
(22:57):
five years, I really no, no,that's too many years.
Maybe in the past two to threeyears, from being honest with
myself, where I feel very securein who I am and You've helped
with that but also to be honestwith you in the back of my head
(23:21):
is like I'm secure and, whateverHappens, I feel like in the
past I was always like lookingOkay, the next shooter yes.
Yes, yes, yes, and if the shoedrops, I'm good, I'm gonna be
okay, right, and I knew thatbefore.
But now I really truly feelthat, yeah, and I think that's
when you started step up.
(23:42):
No, I'm kidding, no, I'mkidding.
You've always been, you'vealways been amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
but but I've been more intentional.
Yes, that's true, you're right.
Yeah, I agree with that 100%.
Yeah, All right was numberthree law of partnership, okay,
and it says, as they shall beone.
So felt selfishness is the mainproblem in marriages
selfishness, selfishness,selfishness.
(24:09):
Okay, I'm sorry, let me saythat word.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So that's okay.
I have some words like worshipsauce.
It's something probably andanything that has a T in the
middle, like paint, paint andpay cotton, cotton button, but
Anything with a T, I feel likeyou have some issues with that
and we're such a sauce.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yes.
But I don't think I'm the onlyselfishness and make is the main
problem in marriages.
If I'm okay, then you're okay.
That's, you know, selfish.
I need you to be like me.
Hmm, think like me, makedecisions like me, put the way
the dishes like me, sameproblems, priorities.
Like me, I had the dishes part.
(24:50):
That that's not.
That's.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's not part of that's not on the, because I was
like, oh, that one, that onethey had owned in it.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I mean, I have a system and I wish I would love
to give a course on how toproperly Put dishes in a
dishwasher.
There's a system to make itefficient that most people
aren't aware of.
You start from the back to thefront.
The bulls go in certainsections, the place go in
(25:20):
certain sections.
Yeah, and I try not to add Bigitems like big pots or pans.
I rather wash those by hand sothat they don't take up a lot of
space in the dishwasher.
Anyways, that's a side note.
It is definitely that if youguys need sharing, if you need
me to come to your home to givea tutorial on how to properly
(25:44):
Fill a dishwasher efficiently onyour girl, okay, the one yes,
all right.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
There can be no dominance, no bullying.
Dominance means I don't respectyou as an equal.
Everything has to be my way.
Partnership means you and yourspouse are equals.
Everything I have belongs toyou.
You make all your decisionstogether, you talk about it, you
pray about it and you come toan agreement.
You have to be equal partnersfor marriage to work.
(26:11):
No one can control therelationship.
That's the law of partnership.
You have to share.
Being selfish doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
All right.
What do you think about that?
How do we, what grade do we geton this now?
Well, yeah, well, no, okay.
Sometimes we forget about in 18years.
What's wrong with this?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And this is what I shared in the men's group,
because robbers like, hey, whatdid you get from the video?
And I said so, being selfishBecause you know being I mean,
you're dating people up untilthat point, obviously got
married, but Prior to that, Ithink everyone's really selfish
(26:55):
when it's just it's just you.
So all you think about isyourself and what makes you
happy, what pleases you, whatare you gonna do that day, what
are you gonna eat.
And then, when you get married,all of that has to switch and
that doesn't switch or change.
Maybe it becomes easy for others, but that was hard not being
selfish early on in marriage, inour marriage.
(27:18):
So that that was a learningthing.
You know I have to think about,okay, well, what would lean at
one or what.
You know that's not somethingthat comes natural.
I think most people are veryselfish people.
So that was a key part, as youdo have to share you, and I
think you have Made me a moregenerous person.
(27:40):
I think that's one of the manythings that you have made me be
a better person, because I amdefinitely a lot more generous
and not as selfish as I used tobe, and that's all because of
you oh for sure, that's so true.
(28:04):
So yeah, selfishness is a bigthing, because I mean you have
to surrender.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
How have I been selfish in our marriage?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Mmm, let me think about that.
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You should say you haven't lean at.
You've always been selfless.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
All right, let me think about that.
I'm curious that question.
Have you been selfish?
Hmm that's actually probablyone of your Many yes, because I
(28:47):
actually can't think Well, no,no, no, oh.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Oh, oh, oh you thought of something in 18 years
.
There's one thing everybody,what is it?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
because I was reading this.
I need to think like me, makedecisions like me, and I don't
think like you.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I don't selfish that is okay, because you won't
, because we have argumentsabout I know, but the way I
think it's like Like the rightway of thinking.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Okay, so most of the time, 98% of the time right,
it's just that 2%.
That's you percent.
That selfish I mean.
The fact that you had to thinkabout it says a lot, Ladies and
gentlemen hey, you win, you'rein in the quarter, okay.
I Mean I have a lot of thingsto work on, but I try to be
(29:40):
selfless when I can.
That's why I get so upset.
Sometimes I'm like I doeverything.
I.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, so you're definitely all in on that's true
, and it's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I'm a very dynamic person, always See the one side
or the other.
Everything no middle never.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yes, well, I got better those words hold off.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Hold up, wait a minute.
You've taught me well.
I Started off that way.
Yes, I have moments where I'mlike and then I have to stop
myself.
It's an opportunity for growingin 18 years of marriage, I've
really Aware of the all or noneFor a mentality.
(30:25):
Yes, I don't do that anymorebecause they're crazy.
And then when I hear otherpeople do and I was like, yeah,
it really stands out.
When you hear other people doit right 100%, I'm like, why be
so?
All or nothing, people.
And then I have to rememberokay, I used to be like that it
takes time people.
It takes time to To to workthrough these issues.
Yeah, all right.
So the last law, number fourlaw of purity.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Adam and his wife were both naked and they felt no
shame.
Naked means open and Exposed.
Insipacy can only occur in arelationship where you're
careful about what you say andDo and you take responsibility
for what you've done wrong.
Your spouse will not open up tosomeone with a smart mouth who
(31:10):
is sarcastic, has the wrong tonewhen they talk.
Trust is earned and drops andlost in buckets.
It can take a long time to earnand regain a person's trust.
When an atmosphere of purityexists, you're careful about
what you say and what you do.
When you make a mistake, youimmediately take responsibility
(31:31):
for it and ask for forgiveness.
When you can talk with completesafety, this is when true
intimacy occurs.
Thoughts and I know you have abunch of them on that, or maybe
not.
I think you just like spacedout.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I was talking whatever can you repeat the
question please?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Earn and drop and lost in buckets.
Be careful in what you do, whatyou say and what you did.
What you do and that Was thatyour spouse will not open up to
someone with a smart mouth intome can only current relationship
where you're careful about whatyou say and do.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Okay, maybe I zone doubt, because you're really
mumbling through that.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it's just love purity.
Your spouse will not open up tosomeone with a smart mouth.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I got a smart mouth and I do have to pay attention
to it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
It's all about trust.
When I feel like you trust thatperson, okay, then you'll be
more vulnerable.
With yes, you'll be more openand, yeah, you have to be
careful about yes, breaking thattrust with someone.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I can relate to that very, very, very much.
I do have a smart ass mouth andI realized when I use a smart
ass mouth, thinking them, youknow it's, it's a defense
mechanism.
If you think about it, sure itmakes you shut down.
So I've had to learn to not usethe smart ass mouth but still
(33:15):
be able to speak how I feel, butin a more respectful way.
And then I feel when I've donethat, I've got more out of you
than just when I'm beingsarcastic because I better
respond.
I feel like that's more mynature and then with you, you me
feeling safe enough to bringsomething up and Feel like I'm
(33:40):
being heard, because in thebeginning I Would hold that
stuff to myself.
It would be faster, and then Iwould explode, vomit all over
you with my words and and.
And it was because I'm I didn'tfeel Like I could say things in
the moment, because I didn'twant to rock the boat, because
(34:02):
in my past experience, not justwith like relationships, like
romantic relationships, just inrelationships in general with
family members Anytime I wouldspeak my mind it would turn into
a battle and so I didn't, Ididn't always show that and then
I would look like the crazyperson because I would just blow
(34:24):
up, blow up.
Yeah, I think now, after somany years, I can say things in
the moment.
I feel like you'll respond welland even if you don't, we can
talk about it in a respectfulway and keep it moving.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Mary yeah, all right, I can answer that question now.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
All right, which one After all these four, uh-huh?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
The answer would be no.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
These don't work.
Why?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
do you say that If you're with the wrong person,
why do you say that?
Because I got told you before Imade a list with Carolyn oh, my
soulmate was.
And then there were dealbreakers on that list and one of
the deal breakers was, uh, thatperson had to be a Christian.
So, even if I followed thesefour laws of marriage, there's a
(35:15):
couple on it.
So the whole premise of thiswouldn't work, because my first
wife was not a Christian.
So we couldn't even practicesome of these things.
Or I couldn't even practicesome of these things.
Well, it had to be we, becauseI couldn't be doing it by myself
.
We couldn't even practice someof these things because that's
not something she believed in.
(35:36):
So no, that wouldn't haveworked for me, for you, if you
asked me, because if I practicethese four things, would our
marriage have worked?
Speaker 1 (35:44):
There's a lot of Christians, where there's a lot
of marriages, where there's twoChristians and they get divorced
.
Get out of here.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yes, so you're right.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So I understand your situation, but I don't know if
that's across the board.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
No, I mean first I need to answer it.
Yes For you.
You did ask it wouldn't haveworked for you, it wouldn't work
for me, yeah, but can you bewith the right person, the wrong
person?
Practice these four laws?
I think you could, but I thinkyou're just.
I mean a lot of people inmarriage.
They're just.
You know they're in marriagesand they live and be with the
(36:18):
other and you know they werewith their own person.
They don't get a divorce.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
I know, but they're not happy.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
They're not completely happy.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
They're not happy and then they die and everything is
great.
I can't live that way.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
No, but a lot of people do that, I know.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
And I feel very sad for them.
And if they practice these,would that?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
make their marriage better.
Is that what you're asking?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Would they make their marriage better?
I think it would make theirmarriage better.
Yes, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
And they worked on those, these four laws, and
maybe they'll fall in love witheach other Again, again, or for
the first time, or whatever.
But yes, so I think it could atleast save a marriage, even for
you, with the wrong person.
At least you'd be, you know,happier while you're married to
(37:06):
that person.
If you practice, if both of youpractice these four laws, or
maybe it will give you more ofan idea that that's not the
right person.
Maybe it'll open up your eyesthat that's not the right person
, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Okay, so those are the four laws.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Those are the four laws the law of purity, law of
pursuit, law of partnership andlaw of prior.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
And if we're aware of these things and work at it as
a couple, then we should be goodto go there you go Exactly, I
like it Exactly.
Honestly, it's like again,we're not experts, but I feel
like it's worked for us, andwhether it's interesting because
(37:52):
we've done things withoutreally realizing these were the
laws of marriage, like we neversought out to feel like these
are these laws that we'repursuing, but when it's in your
face with, like a label and atitle.
Then you're like oh okay, we'vedone this, we've worked through
these.
Yeah, we've done it, we've,we've, we've managed.
(38:13):
I don't know how We've got ittoo.
Oh no, probably because we gotGod and then us and then
everybody else.
There you go and it's worked,anyways, all right.
So there's some questions thatwere given, and now I don't
expect you to give details abouthow other people have answered.
(38:35):
Of course not, because themen's group is very private,
100%, and it stays within.
It's like Vegas whateverhappens here stays here.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Happens in the men's group stays in the men's group.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But more of a generalization of how things
were answered.
So we can learn, we can learn.
So one of the questions is whydo you believe unresolved
conflict is at the heart of mostmarriage problems and most
divorces?
Unresolved conflict.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yes and I was funny because Robert brought that up
about unresolved conflict,Because you know, you and I even
talked about this when we werewalking today on the beach.
Most people, unfortunatelywhich is pretty cool because
that doesn't happen in ourfamily when I mean my family, my
(39:30):
brothers and sisters weactually talk about problems.
You and I talk about problems.
We better at discussingproblems and coming to solutions
and agreement for both of us.
But if you just let it go, youkind of sweep it under the rug,
(39:52):
like you said earlier.
You put it away, put it in asuitcase and never really
address the problem.
It's not like the problem goesaway.
A lot of people don't likeconflict.
They don't like to have adisagreement.
A lot of people say, oh, wenever have an argument, that
(40:14):
means our marriage is perfect.
That tells you if you reallyhave a problem with your
marriage.
If you never have an argumentand if you don't resolve it, it
doesn't mean you have a bunch ofarguments.
It means your marriage isperfect and great.
But you have to come to someresolution that you both feel
good about, Because if you justlet it go, go to bed and weeks
(40:40):
go by, years go by, it's notlike the problem went away, it
just made it worse actually.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Do you think we've had that?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Oh, we've definitely had that Early on.
Definitely we had that, andthat's when you would blow up.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Well, okay.
The next question is can youagree to disagree on an issue?
I don't know if you can.
That goes in the hand withunresolved conflicts.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Because it's unresolved.
Yeah, you can't agree todisagree.
That's what Robert said.
Yeah, oh, he did.
You can't agree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I got an A on the table.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Because that is an unresolved conflict.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, it's still unresolved.
Yeah.
You haven't come to anagreement Because we've agreed
to disagree, and it festers inme.
I can't handle that.
No, Me personally.
I don't know about you, but forme it doesn't feel good to
agree to disagree, especially ifyou think you're right.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm right a lot, 98% of the time.
(41:36):
Remember that.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, I said 2%, yeah , so yes, unresolved conflict is
the number one reason thatdivorces happen.
And the funny thing that Robertbrought up and he said I just
did this recently because he hasdivorce care, I think once or
twice a year.
He's been doing this for over15, 20 years and he said that,
(42:02):
out of the number of yearsmarried, 80% of the people were
married over 15 years 10 to 15years.
It wasn't like, oh, I've beenmarried for two years or three
years.
The majority of them, most ofthe people who had a divorce
care, have been married for along time, for a long time.
(42:22):
So that means they've They'vejust dealt with it.
They've had a lot of unresolvedconflict, yeah, but that's the
thing you've got to work.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Or it's resolved and they're just on different pages,
and it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Sure that's what a divorce is.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
This is where I stand and this is where you stand.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
We're not going to disagree.
We're just going to separate.
Yeah, we're going in thisrelationship.
So, yeah, unresolved conflictis huge, because if you don't
actually have that discussionand communicate as, what do they
?
Say the biggest problem in anyrelationship is communication.
I like their up, so you have tocommunicate to get through that
(43:03):
unresolved conflict.
You can't just let it go.
You let it go, then it justfesters.
And I think I got this fromCarolyn.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
She's so wise.
She is so wise.
Everything you got was fromCarolyn.
Oh yeah, I got a lot of thingsfrom her.
Hi, Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I remember saying a lot of times people and Carolyn
used to do a little quasimarriage counseling and she did
that with a lot of my friends,some of her friends, and she's
really good at it.
So I remember you know howpeople say they take all this
baggage from one relationship tothe other.
(43:40):
Yeah, pretty soon.
You keep adding things to yourbaggage, you're going to have
suitcases and that's a lot ofunresolved conflict and it's
sometimes it's when you go infrom relationship with this and
you never resolve it.
Sometimes it's not, it'spersonal unresolved conflict
(44:00):
within yourself that you haven'tresolved.
Or you know, come to any typeof resolution.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, I don't know how we get through all that.
Maybe some counseling, or youjust got to sit down over a nice
dinner and just hash it out.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
A little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
And sometimes this is what I've found.
One conversation may not know,resolve it and not on the
problem it does.
And then also sometimes they maynot happen that year or the
next year.
And I have found that withcertain things, with us, some
things are like boom, boom, boom, we talk about it.
We talk about it on the samepage.
(44:43):
Other times it's been a fewyears where it's kind of that
situation goes into the nextyear, into the next year, into
the next year.
So it may not happen right awayand those you agree to keep
having that conversation yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, you know, like I always said, marriage is a
commitment to grow together.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
There's one thing that always will stand out for
me with the two of us where wewere having the same
conversation about and we'vetalked about this in the men's
panel where you were holding onto friendships of women, that
you were dating sex withwhatever.
(45:19):
Whatever the case may be, youheld on to them as friendships
and so that was like a constantargument of ours.
There was one day and Iremember so vividly and I don't
remember what it was, but itprobably was around something
like that and you were about toleave.
You were in our bedroom and youwere about to like storm out
(45:41):
and something I can see.
I still remember.
I think something went off inyour mind and I'm sitting there
like so sad and crying and, ohmy gosh, this is just not going
to go anywhere.
We've been talking about thesame shit for years and you're
just still doing the same shitand I'm feeling the same way.
You stopped before you left.
You turned around, you sat downfacing me, you grabbed my hands
(46:06):
.
It was eye to eye, face to face, and you're like, basically
like I want to listen to you.
Right, that was a turning point.
Yeah, I remember that.
That was a turning point for me.
I remember that Because I'mlike if you had left, it would
have just been the same old shit.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah, we would have been repeating the process.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
But you sat, you held my hands, you looked me in the
eyes and I'll never forget that.
And we talked.
I felt heard, I felt heard.
Yeah, I felt like, okay, hesees me.
And that was the beginning ofwhere we are today, and I think
that was maybe, I don't knowfour years ago.
Mm-hmm.
Four or five years agosomething like that.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I remember that that was powerful.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, I had to be just.
I was just like I'm saying, hey, you're making a mistake.
Right now You're being stupid.
You know what that goes back tobeing selfish, being selfish,
and so.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
It stopped you.
It stopped you in your tracks.
It did, and I'll never forgetthat moment.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
It was it, definitely was it.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
I was like if he, if you had walked away it was like
you need to fight.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, because that was yeah, and so why?
Are you getting emotional?
No, because it took me back tothat place.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
And you know what happened for me to do that,
Because it's something.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
You're ready to walk out that door?
Speaker 2 (47:29):
It's something when it's when it goes beyond you,
yeah, and you have to.
I don't know it was.
It was because that was notPlanned.
Obviously.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm gonnaturn around and you know, that's
, that's.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
You opened the doors and you were going out the doors
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
I was gone.
Yeah, you were out of there andI don't know it was like it was
like a barrier at that doorthat I and something in my head
it was like it was.
It was just like a switch andyou know, for people that
believe that's God, that's Godthat made me turn around and sit
(48:15):
down and yeah, I know exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
You remember that moment, I remember that moment
like it was yesterday.
Really, because I, I rememberit too, and I don't think we've
thought about it since today.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Maybe that's why we haven't talked about it since
today.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Because that, that was true, that was pure, that
was honest, that wastransparency, that was yeah,
that was just.
I think in my immature self, Iwould have left.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
And yeah, but at that moment something said to me you
need to stop, you need to thishas to end yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Because we're talking about the same shit over and
over.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, this is your soul mate.
This is the person that youlove with everything in your
heart, and you need to make sureshe knows that she's a priority
.
Yeah, and stop being selfish.
Yeah and yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
That was the moment, that's what that was and that
was what.
Oh no, we were married 15, 16years, no more than that.
Like six, like it was.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
It was 15, 16 years.
Yeah, it's that category that.
Robert said you know that'saround that time people get
divorced.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, it was around that time where I'm like all
right, he finally sees me, hehears me, he gets it.
Yes, and we can work from this.
Yeah, if you had walked out andbeen like, this is your issue
because you had told me thatbefore, this is your insecurity.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
This is your issue.
You can get over it.
This is your problem.
You need to get over it.
Yeah, you need to grow up.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Be more mature.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, and it's more like I need to work on myself.
And yes, I do need to work onmyself, but it hasn't taken any
responsibility?
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, and that whole process.
Yeah, yeah, so, but it takes alot.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
That's not something that's easy it does.
It's a powerful thing when aperson can do that, when people
see us now and make comments,positive comments.
Yeah, it's positive stuff, butthey don't realize yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
You have to go through.
It is a commitment to growtogether, because you can't grow
by yourself, you can't improveon your own.
I mean, you can, but yourpartner has to be willing to
improve and go too, yeah.
So yeah, you have to admit whenyou're wrong, you have to take
responsibility for those times.
(50:34):
And I'll tell you what.
My most favorite, my most well,yeah, one of my best times in
my life that I can say and Isaid this before in the podcast
when you told me you're 100%trust me Well, that was
groundbreaking for me.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Because it was around .
It was after that moment.
So it's interesting becausewe've been married for 18 years.
So when you say 15, that meansthe past three to four years is
when we are really in.
Not that we were not in syncbefore, but there was unresolved
issues.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah, because we had great moments.
Yeah, great times.
Like we said, we went onvacations and we owned it each
other, yeah, but there was stillunderlying things.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
So that conversation, and then I was like all right,
I have to let go of certaininsecurities.
And then that's when I was likeI'm over all of this and I
trust you 100%, because I neverhad said that, because I don't
trust anybody 100%, I don't carewho you are.
I'm very skeptical of the worldof people.
(51:39):
I don't see people for who theyare, upfront.
That's just the way I'm builtand I used to feel like it was a
flaw or something's wrong withme.
But I feel Instincts.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Trust you, it is, it's an instinct thing.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
And so for me to say that, yeah, that I trust you
also, it's a growth within meBecause it's like, oh, you know
what, if he, whatever, forwhatever reason, screws up in
any way, that's not on me.
And so that's leading into thisnext question, and I think this
is where a lot of myinsecurities lie how do affairs
(52:16):
get started?
How do I protect myself fromgetting into an affair?
That's where a lot, if I'mgoing to be honest, that's where
a lot of things are, because Ithink I'm pretty freaking
amazing.
However, I know that I'm notthat special that someone can't
like you can't step out on me,that could be insecurity.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Correct, correct.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Why that's been an insecurity of mine, I don't know
, but it's been very deep rootedand we got married when you and
I was 25.
So it wasn't like I had likethis huge dating history.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
No, you did, you had a ton of baggage.
So but the person that you withand had a father, his father
Caitlin.
Yeah, that's true, that's whathe did.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Well, I don't know.
There's no proof Deep down,deep down.
There's no proof Deep down.
I think there was somethinggoing on with others, but yeah,
right.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, so yeah, I think what's the question again.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
How do affairs get started and how do I protect
myself from getting into anaffair?
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Multiple reasons, but I think the biggest one is not
making your marriage yourpriority, not putting yourself
in situations that you have tomake choices like that.
So it's the when you get socomfortable, would you like.
(53:40):
I don't have to date my wifeanymore, I don't have to buy her
flowers just because, or and weget off rhythm is when we
haven't been dating each other,you know, when we're not like
that year we didn't have ourvacation.
That was a bad year for usbecause we chose not to do it,
(54:05):
and that wasn't fun.
So when we can get back to us,that's always a great time and I
think for these last four orfive years we've had a lot of
many vacations, you know oneweek vacations, like we're doing
(54:25):
this weekend.
You know we're here, kids arehome and we have people, you
know, watching them and.
Kaylin's there, so that's veryhelpful for most of the weekend
and but this is like I don'tknow.
I love being here in timing,but I love being here in Tybee
(54:46):
with you more than anything.
So this is just my, this is mypeace, this is my happy place.
And so if you can't have thatand you kind of get used to just
the routine and life and hislife and the world is just so,
it's going to suck you up.
Yes, You're out, and thenthat's when the devil gets in.
(55:10):
The devil.
That's the thing about it.
The devil knows you better thanyou know yourself sometimes, so
he knows what things he can doto entice you or make you feel
like, yeah, you know, thisdidn't happen and you need to do
this and you do that, make youfeel better and someone says
something to you, and so then,yeah, you get caught up in that
(55:31):
craziness.
You definitely do.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Well, yeah, setting up barriers for sure around you,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Boundaries.
I haven't, you know, saying hey, I'm not going to put myself in
this situation, that I have tomake a decision, or you know and
I think, I think sometimes wethink, oh, we're stronger than
that.
Oh, big time.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
So I'm not going to get sucked into that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah, it's not going to be me.
Yeah, that was my whole thingin my first marriage was that,
you know, first of all, I'm notgoing to get divorced.
All my brothers and sisterswere divorced and remarried,
more than one some of them.
So so it's like, oh, that's notgoing to happen.
(56:16):
And the crazy thing about it iswhen I met my, my other brother
, keith, he had been divorced.
This is his second marriage andman, he has a wonderful wife
and yeah, it's just crazy thatwe have all had that same
pattern and yeah, so that wasweird.
(56:41):
And at the time I thought, oh,that's kind of weird because you
know, our parents never got adivorce.
But thank, keith was Keith,because my father wasn't
faithful.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
Which is just shook my whole foundation.
So yeah, that's that's.
You know, obviously that's whenyou have that unresolved
conflict, that's when it'seasier for you, maybe, to step
out.
Yeah, it's easy for you to havean affair.
It's interesting Because thatperson superficially, yes,
fulfills something.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
You're not doing life with them, right?
It's like imaginary, it's likeTV.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
It's a fair tale, yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
It's an escape.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
It's definitely an escape.
So for me, I'd rather escapewith you to somewhere that's
like anywhere really doesn'tmatter where we go.
Even that one time year that wejust did a staycation, the kids
went away?
Yes, they did go away.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
And thank you, thank you, family, for always helping
out on both sides.
Speaker 2 (57:43):
Yes.
The mom and your siblings havebeen a godsend.
Yeah, Carolyn, Nelly.
And your mother, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
I think John Kevin got shout out to him because I
think that year he drove halfwayto pick up the kids.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yes, he did, yes, he did.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
I mean he didn't take care of them, but he drove, he
drove, he drove.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, I love my brother.
Yeah, they're awesome, yeah, soyou know, it's just even then
like we went on dates that weekand went out to different places
in Atlanta, but we had to havethat one on one time.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
Okay.
So this question I have no idea.
So maybe you guys talked aboutthis.
It says something aboutspiritual blindness.
How does spiritual blindnesswhich I've never heard of this
term in my life play a part inmarriage problems and divorce?
What is spiritual blindness,and can a Christian become
spiritually blind 100%?
(58:38):
So what was that aboutSpiritual warfare?
Come back next week, where wecontinue the conversation about
marriage and answer somemarriage questions.
We define what the spiritualblindness is all about, and
Philip confesses something thathe has been very private about
(59:00):
concerning his first marriage.
So come back next week.
I hope you all have a wonderfulrest of your week and a
phenomenal weekend.
See ya.
Thank you so much for listeningto Virago 24-7.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
(59:24):
button and please give us fivestar ratings.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago 24
underscore seven, and onFacebook, at Virago 24 slash
seven, and just connect with usand share your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
Hi, I am your host, Lyanette Talley, and you are
listening to Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
(00:24):
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
Hello.
(00:44):
I always try to figure out anew way of starting the show,
but hello is always what comesto my mind.
So boring, so generic, buthello everybody.
Virago has hit the road and Iactually brought my equipment.
(01:04):
The acoustics here are so muchbetter than there are in my she
Cave, but I brought mymicrophones and my equipment and
we are in Tybee Island, Georgia, in our new condo and I have my
partner in crime here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Felipe, hey, beautiful people.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Hello, how can I start my show?
You know, in a very excitingway.
I'm always like hello, that'sso boring.
Hey, that's you, though, that'sall I got.
Oh, you guys heard that.
I mean it's you, that's yourpersonality.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I got you, let's back .
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, yes, you be you.
Don't worry about beingsomebody else.
I thought you were.
I thought you were calling meboring because I know that's the
last thing you are just what?
yesterday or the day before, Iwas like you were laughing at me
and I said I got to keep you onyour toes and you call me crazy
.
And I said, yes, I am, becausewe got to keep things exciting.
So I got to bring the crazy outbecause you, it's like a sneak
(02:09):
attack.
I don't want you to get boredwith me, felipe.
Like we said, I don't need yougetting bored with me.
So, anyways, we are here awayfrom my she cave and I like the
acoustics here and the she cave.
It is like a cave.
So we sometimes have to, likeyou know, watch how we talk into
the microphone.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But today, yeah, it's nice, it's a cloudy day, but
we're happy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
We're in our happy place.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
This has become my happy place.
So, anyways, we're here todaybecause we like to talk and
Philip has some things that hewants to bring to Virago.
Why?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Philip has something to bring to Virago.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Oh well, okay, Fine, okay, we have some stuff that we
want.
Listen, we like to talk aboutmarriage.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
We've done it a few times and yeah, actually my
first time on here was talkingabout marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Why are you trying to sound all sexy and stuff?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean that's just my voice.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
You brought a little bit low where you're like yeah
wait, that's my radio voice.
That's your radio voice.
All right, let me hear yourradio voice, philip.
Hey beautiful people, I'm alucky, lucky lady.
I get to hear that voice everyday.
(03:34):
Yes, you are Actually.
Actually, I do like that deepvoice.
Sometimes I'm like, all right,back it up, say that again, and
you get all embarrassed andstuff and I say it again and
then you say it again, all right, so no, anyways, it's
interesting because we've beenwanting to talk about marriage
things not that we're experts oranything, but we like to talk
(03:56):
about it because we're going on18.
No, we are at 18, not going on18.
We're going on 19.
Oh damn.
Yeah.
Man, I'm not really on it, butit's ironic that we've been
pushing it off.
Pushing it off, and I thinkthis is a good time because in
your men's group, as we'vementioned before, you're a part
(04:18):
of a men's group at a church inour area, at your church, at our
church.
It's a long story, people, it'sa long story for another time,
but you're a part of a men'sgroup and you guys are actually
talking.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, last Friday we had a men's group discussion on
marriage and one of our membersis does divorce care at our, at
our church, and he was theperson leading the discussion
and I thought it was perfectbecause you know, we've been
(04:54):
talking about having adiscussion on marriage.
And then he had us.
He wanted us to watch a videoprior to coming into our men's
group that morning and herequested that you watch the
video with your wife.
And so we watched the video,you and I, on the Four Laws of
(05:15):
Marriage by Jimmy Evans, andthen Robert had a bunch of
questions on marriage anddivorce, and so I agreed to even
answer the divorce questions.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Cause I told you this morning sometimes I forget I
was married.
We're walking, he's like we'regoing to talk about marriage and
there's some questions on there, but you know we can't relate
to the divorce questions, sowe'll just skip those.
And I'm like, um, you know,you've been divorced, like you
were married before me and therewas a whole divorce.
And you're like, oh yeah, Iforgot about.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I do.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I'm like do you really?
I do, you can't do that.
You can't forget about yourfirst marriage.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
That's true.
It's funny, cause, um, asRobert was going around asking,
we asked everyone to um, causewe have some new members in our
men's group.
So he asked everyone to say youknow how many years you've been
married?
You know the age of your kids?
And so one of the guys said,well, this is my first marriage.
And of course we startedlaughing like okay, you're about
(06:22):
to have a second one.
And uh, so then, as I wastalking, I was like, oh yeah,
cause you know, I was the lastperson to talk, cause we went
around the table and I happenedto be the last person where I
was seated, and so I had tothink about it.
I was like, oh yeah, this isnot my first marriage, but yeah,
it's not something I usuallythink about anyway, so, it is
(06:45):
what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, here we are All right.
Since this is you know I knowit's my podcast, but I feel like
you want to drive this train,I'll take over the wheel when I
feel like I need to.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, like you do in real life.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yes, I'm going to have you leave, but if you're
not driving the train the way Ithought you should drive it, I'm
just going to take it over.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Like you tried to do when we were driving.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Okay, Okay, Listen, Phillip, when we were driving
here, right there's a strip likeokay, if anybody has ever been
to South, like south of Georgia,like you go through Macon, from
Macon to Savannah, they'redoing a lot of construction.
It's been probably the past 15years, the same kind of
construction and they're makingsome progress, but there's
(07:32):
there's still some stuff goingon and there's like these
concrete barriers and a lot, of,a lot of curves going on on
this highway and you were likedriving with one arm drinking
from the other, like takingthese, these curves, like like
you were a race car driver orsomething at night, in the dark.
And let me clarify.
It was.
It was I thought I was, I washolding on from for dear life
(07:55):
Like.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I was drinking a Red Bull Because, you know, and
that's like you drinking on onehand and driving all crazy.
So no, I wasn't drinking.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
You were hugging those curves.
And I said listen, I want tomake it down to the beach
Because I've been lookingforward to this for the past few
weeks and I'm not.
I'm not ready to like go toheaven yet Got it, so anyways.
So, yeah, sometimes I got to.
You know, be a backseat driver,Call it what you want.
Call it what you want.
All right, when?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
are we going to start ?
Where are we going to start?
We're going to start with somemarriage questions, the Four
Laws of Marriage.
Okay, let's talk about thatfirst.
Let's do that, let's do that.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So that's what the video was about.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So the video it says Four Laws of Marriage and a
couple of things that he talkedabout is the Four Laws.
You know, if you follow theseFour Laws it will make sure that
your marriage is successful.
Okay, 100% chance for successin marriage when you do these
Four Laws of Love.
(08:54):
He says.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Okay.
So before we get into the Laws,do you feel like people get
into marriages without reallythinking about who they're
marrying and that's why there'sa lot of divorce?
Or even if you quote, unquote,pick the one that maybe wasn't
(09:17):
meant for you, do these laws, ifyou follow these laws, could
they work?
I feel like we get intomarriages that with the wrong
person, but would these lawswork?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Would these laws work if you married the wrong person
?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I know this is why I'm here Hard hitting questions.
I should be on TV somewhere.
Doing the evening news, askingthe hard hitting questions, we
go off track.
We were watching the morningshow on Apple TV with Reese
Witherspoon and Jennifer Anistonand a bunch of other people.
(09:59):
Steve Carrell is in there, butyeah, I feel like man, that was
my, that was my path.
But then I'm watching the show.
I'm like there's a lot offreaking drama behind the scenes
and I don't know.
I don't know if I would haveworked well in that environment.
I was going to say.
I was going to say made it.
But I'm like I could have madeit.
Yeah, I just probably wouldn'thave worked well in those
(10:19):
environments with these men.
Anyways, go on.
So I know.
Okay, back on track.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
But so that's a good question, but these four laws
work with the wrong person.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay.
So in your first marriage,whether we say it was wrong
person or not, if you hadfollowed these laws, do you
think you would still be marriedto her?
Oh, that is a very goodquestion, all right.
Well, let's go through the lawsand then you can answer the
question.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Let me look at that because, as I go through the
laws and I'll think, I'll thinkabout that and then I'll come
back and answer your question.
Okay, so let me do that.
All right.
All right.
So the first law is law.
Well, this is all coming fromGenesis to 2425.
Therefore, shall a man leavehis father and his mother and
shall cleave unto his wife andthey shall be one flesh and they
(11:10):
will both naked, the man andhis wife, and we're not ashamed.
So, based on those two verses,he came up with the four laws of
marriage.
And the first law is law ofpriority A man shall leave his
father and mother.
If you have to choose, youchoose your spouse over family,
(11:34):
parents, in-laws, children.
Your spouse has priority overfamily.
So that's the first law.
And that means the mostimportant person in relationship
is your.
In your life is your spouse,other than your relationship
with Jesus?
She has top priority overanything else.
(11:54):
She comes first, and most ofthe things that destroy
marriages are good things thatare out of priority.
What do you think of?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
that.
I think that's right.
I feel like with us that's howit is.
We love our children, we loveour families, but you and I come
first, above all of that 100%.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, and I think I've already told you this, but,
as our pastor said last Sundaythat he tells his kids all the
time I chose my wife, I wasstuck, I was stuck with y'all,
or something like that.
So, but you know, and our kidsknow, our number one priority
not that they're not a priority,but they're going to be gone
(12:43):
and this kind of goes to one ofthe things that we'll talk about
but that Robert brought up wasthat most he said, what do you
think, out of all these yearsI've been doing divorce care and
all the books that you read,when does, when does the divorce
happen?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
When the kids are grown.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Exactly when they're out the house.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
A lot of them.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
A lot of them.
He said the majority of themarriages happened then because,
you know, the priority has beentheir kids.
And now the kids are gone andthey really don't know their
wife or their husband and nowthey're like who are you?
You're not the person.
I married and I've been devoted, or we've been devoted to our
(13:27):
kids and they've been number onepriority, not us.
I'd still go back to, and I haveto thank Carolyn, my sisters
that was one of the things shedid early on in our marriage was
to say, hey, y'all need to havea vacation and, like Robert
always tells us, you know,vacation is with your wife.
(13:48):
When you go on a trip with yourkids, that's a family trip.
That's not a vacation, it's notat all.
So we made a priority becauseCarolyn and still dead in us to
go have a vacation once a year,just the two of us, and it is
(14:09):
definitely the best thing thatwe've ever done for our marriage
.
So long priority.
I agree with that 100%.
Your marriage, your wife, haveto be first over kids, over
parents.
If you have to choose hopefullyyou don't have to, but your
marriage has to be a number onepriority, all right.
(14:30):
So that's number one.
I don't think we have any inputon that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
All right.
So you have to pursue and showcleave unto his wife.
And he says that cleave in theoriginal Hebrew means to pursue
with all your energy.
Cleave means like to climb amountain.
It means to use all your energyfor something.
So marriage is work.
From the very beginning Godtold us marriage is work and it
(14:57):
doesn't work unless you work atit.
We have this romanticmisconception that if I have to
work at the relationship there'ssomething wrong with it.
And a lot of people trulybelieve if I have to work at my
marriage, it means I didn'tmarry my soulmate.
Tell me what do you think it up?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, even though I believe that we we've always
said that there's multiplesoulmates, so we feel like we,
our souls, are super connected,but we still have had to quote,
unquote work on it, and so Ifeel like that's.
The other question is like whatcause?
I feel like there's some peoplethat are in marriages that
(15:41):
aren't meant to be and it's justlike like it's truly working
and it's taxing and it's like,and so people are it's.
I think it's dangerous to say,oh, marriage is work, marriage
is work, marriage is work, andso when people are really truly
working at it but it's reallynot going anywhere, they feel
like, oh, this is what marriageis, and they kind of stay in it.
(16:02):
I get that and that's what themindset, or that's what has been
preached is marriage is work.
Marriage is work.
I think there's a difference.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well, the difference is if you had to add this one
last little sentence to that.
But you have to see goodresults.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You can't always be working.
Yeah, and think that cause youhave.
Once you see the result, a goodresult from the work that you
put in, then you know, I don'tknow, I just, I don't know, for
some reason I don't like.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I don't like that phrase.
Marriage is work.
Right, because some people areworking hard.
Yeah, you're right, and it'snot going anywhere Cause you're
not getting rich.
But they feel like this is, thisis what it should feel like.
I feel like, yeah, it's work,but it shouldn't be like taxing
on your spirit, on your soul.
You know what I'm saying.
(16:50):
Yeah, your emotions might be.
You know, there's times whereI've been crying to you or
you've been upset or I've beenupset, but deep down it's not
really like, it's notdetrimental to my spirit.
It's just that situation and Iknow in my heart that this is
just something that we have toovercome, to pass it.
There's a difference betweenknowing like this is temporary
(17:13):
versus like, wow, this is whatthis person brings out of me is
like the sadness, or this thisagain, this is the result.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, it's the result .
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And that's dangerous to always say, oh, it's work,
it's work, it's work for them,the people that are really yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know you have to get, you have to put in some
work to be intentional.
You know, that's the word Ilove to use.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
So okay.
So I know we have a lot ofconversations about marriage.
I don't remember if I heardthis on a podcast on the radio,
if it was in the video, but oryou taught you and I talked
about it about in our work.
We take continue educationclasses.
Was that with you?
(17:58):
Okay, so we take a lot ofcourses to get, better to get
better.
And then with marriage, it'slike we don't, we don't do yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So what was that was with you, right?
Robert actually opened up thediscussion after he asked
everyone you know how longthey've been married?
And then he said well, how manyof you at work have to take
continue education courses andhow many of you have to do team
building at work and you know,do you have to get cert,
(18:29):
certifications and upkeep andstuff like that?
So you know, obviously themajority of the guys said yes,
they do.
They kept, you know, theyraised, they rose the end.
So he said, well, this is funny, but all of us are married.
So how many of y'all actuallylike take some courses on
marriage, read books on marriage?
I mean, if you can do this atwork, you should be able to do
(18:51):
this on your marriage, becauseit's not going to happen just
because you wake up everymorning that your marriage is
going to be amazing.
So those were.
He made a good point becauseyou know not, as many hands went
up when he asked thosequestions.
You know, how many times didy'all take a course on it?
(19:14):
And then I think the church hadoffered one and one of the guys
was like, yeah, you know, thechurch offered one like a year
or two ago, and he said yeah, soI just took one and then the
other kind of group was likeyeah, but that really was like
three or four years ago, so youknow that was a great point,
because you know we're marriedand it's not like something just
(19:35):
going to osmosis, you're justgoing to get better with it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And I think also I mean, you know some people I
know we've read books or we'veread certain things, but maybe
not everyone is into that kindof stuff.
But I also think, sitting downand just talking I don't know
how, how, I know we do that, butI don't know how common that is
for people to really sit downand talk to and really talk
(20:04):
about the real thing yeah, doyou think that happens often Of?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
course not.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I don't think so yeah yeah, yeah, you just want to
just throw things under and putit in a closet.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah.
Sweep it under the rug, put itin the couch cushions with
pennies, all right, you know,put it in a suitcase and keep it
there and, you know, still walkaround with it.
So, and the other things on thelaw pursuit says it needs of a
woman to one woman needs to havesecurity, open and honest
(20:39):
communication, soft, non-sexualaffection and leadership.
Needs of a man honor andrespect, sex friendship,
domestic support.
What do you think of that?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I agree 100%.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I agree, I agree 1000%.
And if you practice the lawpursuit, you tell your spouse
your first.
You're not a burden, you're nota distraction.
I love serving you.
What do you need?
Serving each other is the onlyway a marriage works.
Any comment on that?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, it's true.
So the times where I feel yes,for sure I don't want to speak
for all women, but I think themajority of us do want that
security and the times where Ifelt insecure were times where I
wasn't feeling insecure Likeyou were showing that, like I
(21:39):
wasn't a priority, that otherthings were a priority and I
just have to deal with certainthings.
It is what it is, this is who Iam, this is what I do types,
personality, and so it would.
It didn't feel secure, right,and I acted very insecure, right
, especially since I'm acompetent, freaking woman.
You made me feel insecure is alot of the times when you, I
(22:01):
didn't feel like I was apriority 100% yeah, definitely.
Yeah, and I think with you knowme, that's what you wanted.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, but I had those discussions.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes but I think a lot of the times you weren't
listening to me.
You were, you were hearing, butyou weren't like truly
listening.
I feel like in the past fewyears I have finally caught on.
Yeah, I do, don't you think?
Why did it take you so long,philip?
It took you like 15 years.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's true, I'm a flawed individual.
Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
You know, you know what.
And I was patient.
Don't say that I wasn't youwere patient.
Don't say don't say that I'm nota patient person because I was
patient.
No, I mean, I'm not saying it'sall you, but in in that realm
of me feeling secure, I I feellike in the past, maybe four to
(22:57):
five years, I really no, no,that's too many years.
Maybe in the past two to threeyears, from being honest with
myself, where I feel very securein who I am and You've helped
with that but also to be honestwith you in the back of my head
(23:21):
is like I'm secure and, whateverHappens, I feel like in the
past I was always like lookingOkay, the next shooter yes.
Yes, yes, yes, and if the shoedrops, I'm good, I'm gonna be
okay, right, and I knew thatbefore.
But now I really truly feelthat, yeah, and I think that's
when you started step up.
(23:42):
No, I'm kidding, no, I'mkidding.
You've always been, you'vealways been amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
but but I've been more intentional.
Yes, that's true, you're right.
Yeah, I agree with that 100%.
Yeah, All right was numberthree law of partnership, okay,
and it says, as they shall beone.
So felt selfishness is the mainproblem in marriages
selfishness, selfishness,selfishness.
(24:09):
Okay, I'm sorry, let me saythat word.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So that's okay.
I have some words like worshipsauce.
It's something probably andanything that has a T in the
middle, like paint, paint andpay cotton, cotton button, but
Anything with a T, I feel likeyou have some issues with that
and we're such a sauce.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yes.
But I don't think I'm the onlyselfishness and make is the main
problem in marriages.
If I'm okay, then you're okay.
That's, you know, selfish.
I need you to be like me.
Hmm, think like me, makedecisions like me, put the way
the dishes like me, sameproblems, priorities.
Like me, I had the dishes part.
(24:50):
That that's not.
That's.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's not part of that's not on the, because I was
like, oh, that one, that onethey had owned in it.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I mean, I have a system and I wish I would love
to give a course on how toproperly Put dishes in a
dishwasher.
There's a system to make itefficient that most people
aren't aware of.
You start from the back to thefront.
The bulls go in certainsections, the place go in
(25:20):
certain sections.
Yeah, and I try not to add Bigitems like big pots or pans.
I rather wash those by hand sothat they don't take up a lot of
space in the dishwasher.
Anyways, that's a side note.
It is definitely that if youguys need sharing, if you need
me to come to your home to givea tutorial on how to properly
(25:44):
Fill a dishwasher efficiently onyour girl, okay, the one yes,
all right.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
There can be no dominance, no bullying.
Dominance means I don't respectyou as an equal.
Everything has to be my way.
Partnership means you and yourspouse are equals.
Everything I have belongs toyou.
You make all your decisionstogether, you talk about it, you
pray about it and you come toan agreement.
You have to be equal partnersfor marriage to work.
(26:11):
No one can control therelationship.
That's the law of partnership.
You have to share.
Being selfish doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
All right.
What do you think about that?
How do we, what grade do we geton this now?
Well, yeah, well, no, okay.
Sometimes we forget about in 18years.
What's wrong with this?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And this is what I shared in the men's group,
because robbers like, hey, whatdid you get from the video?
And I said so, being selfishBecause you know being I mean,
you're dating people up untilthat point, obviously got
married, but Prior to that, Ithink everyone's really selfish
(26:55):
when it's just it's just you.
So all you think about isyourself and what makes you
happy, what pleases you, whatare you gonna do that day, what
are you gonna eat.
And then, when you get married,all of that has to switch and
that doesn't switch or change.
Maybe it becomes easy for others, but that was hard not being
selfish early on in marriage, inour marriage.
(27:18):
So that that was a learningthing.
You know I have to think about,okay, well, what would lean at
one or what.
You know that's not somethingthat comes natural.
I think most people are veryselfish people.
So that was a key part, as youdo have to share you, and I
think you have Made me a moregenerous person.
(27:40):
I think that's one of the manythings that you have made me be
a better person, because I amdefinitely a lot more generous
and not as selfish as I used tobe, and that's all because of
you oh for sure, that's so true.
(28:04):
So yeah, selfishness is a bigthing, because I mean you have
to surrender.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
How have I been selfish in our marriage?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Mmm, let me think about that.
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You should say you haven't lean at.
You've always been selfless.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
All right, let me think about that.
I'm curious that question.
Have you been selfish?
Hmm that's actually probablyone of your Many yes, because I
(28:47):
actually can't think Well, no,no, no, oh.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Oh, oh, oh you thought of something in 18 years
.
There's one thing everybody,what is it?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
because I was reading this.
I need to think like me, makedecisions like me, and I don't
think like you.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I don't selfish that is okay, because you won't
, because we have argumentsabout I know, but the way I
think it's like Like the rightway of thinking.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Okay, so most of the time, 98% of the time right,
it's just that 2%.
That's you percent.
That selfish I mean.
The fact that you had to thinkabout it says a lot, Ladies and
gentlemen hey, you win, you'rein in the quarter, okay.
I Mean I have a lot of thingsto work on, but I try to be
(29:40):
selfless when I can.
That's why I get so upset.
Sometimes I'm like I doeverything.
I.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, so you're definitely all in on that's true
, and it's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I'm a very dynamic person, always See the one side
or the other.
Everything no middle never.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yes, well, I got better those words hold off.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Hold up, wait a minute.
You've taught me well.
I Started off that way.
Yes, I have moments where I'mlike and then I have to stop
myself.
It's an opportunity for growingin 18 years of marriage, I've
really Aware of the all or noneFor a mentality.
(30:25):
Yes, I don't do that anymorebecause they're crazy.
And then when I hear otherpeople do and I was like, yeah,
it really stands out.
When you hear other people doit right 100%, I'm like, why be
so?
All or nothing, people.
And then I have to rememberokay, I used to be like that it
takes time people.
It takes time to To to workthrough these issues.
Yeah, all right.
So the last law, number fourlaw of purity.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Adam and his wife were both naked and they felt no
shame.
Naked means open and Exposed.
Insipacy can only occur in arelationship where you're
careful about what you say andDo and you take responsibility
for what you've done wrong.
Your spouse will not open up tosomeone with a smart mouth who
(31:10):
is sarcastic, has the wrong tonewhen they talk.
Trust is earned and drops andlost in buckets.
It can take a long time to earnand regain a person's trust.
When an atmosphere of purityexists, you're careful about
what you say and what you do.
When you make a mistake, youimmediately take responsibility
(31:31):
for it and ask for forgiveness.
When you can talk with completesafety, this is when true
intimacy occurs.
Thoughts and I know you have abunch of them on that, or maybe
not.
I think you just like spacedout.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I was talking whatever can you repeat the
question please?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Earn and drop and lost in buckets.
Be careful in what you do, whatyou say and what you did.
What you do and that Was thatyour spouse will not open up to
someone with a smart mouth intome can only current relationship
where you're careful about whatyou say and do.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Okay, maybe I zone doubt, because you're really
mumbling through that.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it's just love purity.
Your spouse will not open up tosomeone with a smart mouth.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I got a smart mouth and I do have to pay attention
to it.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
It's all about trust.
When I feel like you trust thatperson, okay, then you'll be
more vulnerable.
With yes, you'll be more openand, yeah, you have to be
careful about yes, breaking thattrust with someone.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I can relate to that very, very, very much.
I do have a smart ass mouth andI realized when I use a smart
ass mouth, thinking them, youknow it's, it's a defense
mechanism.
If you think about it, sure itmakes you shut down.
So I've had to learn to not usethe smart ass mouth but still
(33:15):
be able to speak how I feel, butin a more respectful way.
And then I feel when I've donethat, I've got more out of you
than just when I'm beingsarcastic because I better
respond.
I feel like that's more mynature and then with you, you me
feeling safe enough to bringsomething up and Feel like I'm
(33:40):
being heard, because in thebeginning I Would hold that
stuff to myself.
It would be faster, and then Iwould explode, vomit all over
you with my words and and.
And it was because I'm I didn'tfeel Like I could say things in
the moment, because I didn'twant to rock the boat, because
(34:02):
in my past experience, not justwith like relationships, like
romantic relationships, just inrelationships in general with
family members Anytime I wouldspeak my mind it would turn into
a battle and so I didn't, Ididn't always show that and then
I would look like the crazyperson because I would just blow
(34:24):
up, blow up.
Yeah, I think now, after somany years, I can say things in
the moment.
I feel like you'll respond welland even if you don't, we can
talk about it in a respectfulway and keep it moving.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Mary yeah, all right, I can answer that question now.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
All right, which one After all these four, uh-huh?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
The answer would be no.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
These don't work.
Why?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
do you say that If you're with the wrong person,
why do you say that?
Because I got told you before Imade a list with Carolyn oh, my
soulmate was.
And then there were dealbreakers on that list and one of
the deal breakers was, uh, thatperson had to be a Christian.
So, even if I followed thesefour laws of marriage, there's a
(35:15):
couple on it.
So the whole premise of thiswouldn't work, because my first
wife was not a Christian.
So we couldn't even practicesome of these things.
Or I couldn't even practicesome of these things.
Well, it had to be we, becauseI couldn't be doing it by myself
.
We couldn't even practice someof these things because that's
not something she believed in.
(35:36):
So no, that wouldn't haveworked for me, for you, if you
asked me, because if I practicethese four things, would our
marriage have worked?
Speaker 1 (35:44):
There's a lot of Christians, where there's a lot
of marriages, where there's twoChristians and they get divorced
.
Get out of here.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yes, so you're right.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So I understand your situation, but I don't know if
that's across the board.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
No, I mean first I need to answer it.
Yes For you.
You did ask it wouldn't haveworked for you, it wouldn't work
for me, yeah, but can you bewith the right person, the wrong
person?
Practice these four laws?
I think you could, but I thinkyou're just.
I mean a lot of people inmarriage.
They're just.
You know they're in marriagesand they live and be with the
(36:18):
other and you know they werewith their own person.
They don't get a divorce.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
I know, but they're not happy.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
They're not completely happy.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
They're not happy and then they die and everything is
great.
I can't live that way.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
No, but a lot of people do that, I know.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
And I feel very sad for them.
And if they practice these,would that?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
make their marriage better.
Is that what you're asking?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Would they make their marriage better?
I think it would make theirmarriage better.
Yes, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
And they worked on those, these four laws, and
maybe they'll fall in love witheach other Again, again, or for
the first time, or whatever.
But yes, so I think it could atleast save a marriage, even for
you, with the wrong person.
At least you'd be, you know,happier while you're married to
(37:06):
that person.
If you practice, if both of youpractice these four laws, or
maybe it will give you more ofan idea that that's not the
right person.
Maybe it'll open up your eyesthat that's not the right person
, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Okay, so those are the four laws.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Those are the four laws the law of purity, law of
pursuit, law of partnership andlaw of prior.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
And if we're aware of these things and work at it as
a couple, then we should be goodto go there you go Exactly, I
like it Exactly.
Honestly, it's like again,we're not experts, but I feel
like it's worked for us, andwhether it's interesting because
(37:52):
we've done things withoutreally realizing these were the
laws of marriage, like we neversought out to feel like these
are these laws that we'repursuing, but when it's in your
face with, like a label and atitle.
Then you're like oh okay, we'vedone this, we've worked through
these.
Yeah, we've done it, we've,we've, we've managed.
(38:13):
I don't know how We've got ittoo.
Oh no, probably because we gotGod and then us and then
everybody else.
There you go and it's worked,anyways, all right.
So there's some questions thatwere given, and now I don't
expect you to give details abouthow other people have answered.
(38:35):
Of course not, because themen's group is very private,
100%, and it stays within.
It's like Vegas whateverhappens here stays here.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Happens in the men's group stays in the men's group.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But more of a generalization of how things
were answered.
So we can learn, we can learn.
So one of the questions is whydo you believe unresolved
conflict is at the heart of mostmarriage problems and most
divorces?
Unresolved conflict.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yes and I was funny because Robert brought that up
about unresolved conflict,Because you know, you and I even
talked about this when we werewalking today on the beach.
Most people, unfortunatelywhich is pretty cool because
that doesn't happen in ourfamily when I mean my family, my
(39:30):
brothers and sisters weactually talk about problems.
You and I talk about problems.
We better at discussingproblems and coming to solutions
and agreement for both of us.
But if you just let it go, youkind of sweep it under the rug,
(39:52):
like you said earlier.
You put it away, put it in asuitcase and never really
address the problem.
It's not like the problem goesaway.
A lot of people don't likeconflict.
They don't like to have adisagreement.
A lot of people say, oh, wenever have an argument, that
(40:14):
means our marriage is perfect.
That tells you if you reallyhave a problem with your
marriage.
If you never have an argumentand if you don't resolve it, it
doesn't mean you have a bunch ofarguments.
It means your marriage isperfect and great.
But you have to come to someresolution that you both feel
good about, Because if you justlet it go, go to bed and weeks
(40:40):
go by, years go by, it's notlike the problem went away, it
just made it worse actually.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Do you think we've had that?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Oh, we've definitely had that Early on.
Definitely we had that, andthat's when you would blow up.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Well, okay.
The next question is can youagree to disagree on an issue?
I don't know if you can.
That goes in the hand withunresolved conflicts.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Because it's unresolved.
Yeah, you can't agree todisagree.
That's what Robert said.
Yeah, oh, he did.
You can't agree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I got an A on the table.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Because that is an unresolved conflict.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, it's still unresolved.
Yeah.
You haven't come to anagreement Because we've agreed
to disagree, and it festers inme.
I can't handle that.
No, Me personally.
I don't know about you, but forme it doesn't feel good to
agree to disagree, especially ifyou think you're right.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm right a lot, 98% of the time.
(41:36):
Remember that.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, I said 2%, yeah , so yes, unresolved conflict is
the number one reason thatdivorces happen.
And the funny thing that Robertbrought up and he said I just
did this recently because he hasdivorce care, I think once or
twice a year.
He's been doing this for over15, 20 years and he said that,
(42:02):
out of the number of yearsmarried, 80% of the people were
married over 15 years 10 to 15years.
It wasn't like, oh, I've beenmarried for two years or three
years.
The majority of them, most ofthe people who had a divorce
care, have been married for along time, for a long time.
(42:22):
So that means they've They'vejust dealt with it.
They've had a lot of unresolvedconflict, yeah, but that's the
thing you've got to work.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Or it's resolved and they're just on different pages,
and it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Sure that's what a divorce is.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
This is where I stand and this is where you stand.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
We're not going to disagree.
We're just going to separate.
Yeah, we're going in thisrelationship.
So, yeah, unresolved conflictis huge, because if you don't
actually have that discussionand communicate as, what do they
?
Say the biggest problem in anyrelationship is communication.
I like their up, so you have tocommunicate to get through that
(43:03):
unresolved conflict.
You can't just let it go.
You let it go, then it justfesters.
And I think I got this fromCarolyn.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
She's so wise.
She is so wise.
Everything you got was fromCarolyn.
Oh yeah, I got a lot of thingsfrom her.
Hi, Carolyn.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I remember saying a lot of times people and Carolyn
used to do a little quasimarriage counseling and she did
that with a lot of my friends,some of her friends, and she's
really good at it.
So I remember you know howpeople say they take all this
baggage from one relationship tothe other.
(43:40):
Yeah, pretty soon.
You keep adding things to yourbaggage, you're going to have
suitcases and that's a lot ofunresolved conflict and it's
sometimes it's when you go infrom relationship with this and
you never resolve it.
Sometimes it's not, it'spersonal unresolved conflict
(44:00):
within yourself that you haven'tresolved.
Or you know, come to any typeof resolution.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, I don't know how we get through all that.
Maybe some counseling, or youjust got to sit down over a nice
dinner and just hash it out.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
A little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
And sometimes this is what I've found.
One conversation may not know,resolve it and not on the
problem it does.
And then also sometimes they maynot happen that year or the
next year.
And I have found that withcertain things, with us, some
things are like boom, boom, boom, we talk about it.
We talk about it on the samepage.
(44:43):
Other times it's been a fewyears where it's kind of that
situation goes into the nextyear, into the next year, into
the next year.
So it may not happen right awayand those you agree to keep
having that conversation yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, you know, like I always said, marriage is a
commitment to grow together.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
There's one thing that always will stand out for
me with the two of us where wewere having the same
conversation about and we'vetalked about this in the men's
panel where you were holding onto friendships of women, that
you were dating sex withwhatever.
(45:19):
Whatever the case may be, youheld on to them as friendships
and so that was like a constantargument of ours.
There was one day and Iremember so vividly and I don't
remember what it was, but itprobably was around something
like that and you were about toleave.
You were in our bedroom and youwere about to like storm out
(45:41):
and something I can see.
I still remember.
I think something went off inyour mind and I'm sitting there
like so sad and crying and, ohmy gosh, this is just not going
to go anywhere.
We've been talking about thesame shit for years and you're
just still doing the same shitand I'm feeling the same way.
You stopped before you left.
You turned around, you sat downfacing me, you grabbed my hands
(46:06):
.
It was eye to eye, face to face, and you're like, basically
like I want to listen to you.
Right, that was a turning point.
Yeah, I remember that.
That was a turning point for me.
I remember that Because I'mlike if you had left, it would
have just been the same old shit.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah, we would have been repeating the process.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
But you sat, you held my hands, you looked me in the
eyes and I'll never forget that.
And we talked.
I felt heard, I felt heard.
Yeah, I felt like, okay, hesees me.
And that was the beginning ofwhere we are today, and I think
that was maybe, I don't knowfour years ago.
Mm-hmm.
Four or five years agosomething like that.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I remember that that was powerful.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, I had to be just.
I was just like I'm saying, hey, you're making a mistake.
Right now You're being stupid.
You know what that goes back tobeing selfish, being selfish,
and so.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
It stopped you.
It stopped you in your tracks.
It did, and I'll never forgetthat moment.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
It was it, definitely was it.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
I was like if he, if you had walked away it was like
you need to fight.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, because that was yeah, and so why?
Are you getting emotional?
No, because it took me back tothat place.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
And you know what happened for me to do that,
Because it's something.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
You're ready to walk out that door?
Speaker 2 (47:29):
It's something when it's when it goes beyond you,
yeah, and you have to.
I don't know it was.
It was because that was notPlanned.
Obviously.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm gonnaturn around and you know, that's
, that's.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
You opened the doors and you were going out the doors
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
I was gone.
Yeah, you were out of there andI don't know it was like it was
like a barrier at that doorthat I and something in my head
it was like it was.
It was just like a switch andyou know, for people that
believe that's God, that's Godthat made me turn around and sit
(48:15):
down and yeah, I know exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
You remember that moment, I remember that moment
like it was yesterday.
Really, because I, I rememberit too, and I don't think we've
thought about it since today.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Maybe that's why we haven't talked about it since
today.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Because that, that was true, that was pure, that
was honest, that wastransparency, that was yeah,
that was just.
I think in my immature self, Iwould have left.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
And yeah, but at that moment something said to me you
need to stop, you need to thishas to end yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Because we're talking about the same shit over and
over.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, this is your soul mate.
This is the person that youlove with everything in your
heart, and you need to make sureshe knows that she's a priority
.
Yeah, and stop being selfish.
Yeah and yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
That was the moment, that's what that was and that
was what.
Oh no, we were married 15, 16years, no more than that.
Like six, like it was.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
It was 15, 16 years.
Yeah, it's that category that.
Robert said you know that'saround that time people get
divorced.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, it was around that time where I'm like all
right, he finally sees me, hehears me, he gets it.
Yes, and we can work from this.
Yeah, if you had walked out andbeen like, this is your issue
because you had told me thatbefore, this is your insecurity.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
This is your issue.
You can get over it.
This is your problem.
You need to get over it.
Yeah, you need to grow up.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Be more mature.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, and it's more like I need to work on myself.
And yes, I do need to work onmyself, but it hasn't taken any
responsibility?
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, and that whole process.
Yeah, yeah, so, but it takes alot.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
That's not something that's easy it does.
It's a powerful thing when aperson can do that, when people
see us now and make comments,positive comments.
Yeah, it's positive stuff, butthey don't realize yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
You have to go through.
It is a commitment to growtogether, because you can't grow
by yourself, you can't improveon your own.
I mean, you can, but yourpartner has to be willing to
improve and go too, yeah.
So yeah, you have to admit whenyou're wrong, you have to take
responsibility for those times.
(50:34):
And I'll tell you what.
My most favorite, my most well,yeah, one of my best times in
my life that I can say and Isaid this before in the podcast
when you told me you're 100%trust me Well, that was
groundbreaking for me.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Because it was around .
It was after that moment.
So it's interesting becausewe've been married for 18 years.
So when you say 15, that meansthe past three to four years is
when we are really in.
Not that we were not in syncbefore, but there was unresolved
issues.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah, because we had great moments.
Yeah, great times.
Like we said, we went onvacations and we owned it each
other, yeah, but there was stillunderlying things.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
So that conversation, and then I was like all right,
I have to let go of certaininsecurities.
And then that's when I was likeI'm over all of this and I
trust you 100%, because I neverhad said that, because I don't
trust anybody 100%, I don't carewho you are.
I'm very skeptical of the worldof people.
(51:39):
I don't see people for who theyare, upfront.
That's just the way I'm builtand I used to feel like it was a
flaw or something's wrong withme.
But I feel Instincts.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Trust you, it is, it's an instinct thing.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
And so for me to say that, yeah, that I trust you
also, it's a growth within meBecause it's like, oh, you know
what, if he, whatever, forwhatever reason, screws up in
any way, that's not on me.
And so that's leading into thisnext question, and I think this
is where a lot of myinsecurities lie how do affairs
(52:16):
get started?
How do I protect myself fromgetting into an affair?
That's where a lot, if I'mgoing to be honest, that's where
a lot of things are, because Ithink I'm pretty freaking
amazing.
However, I know that I'm notthat special that someone can't
like you can't step out on me,that could be insecurity.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Correct, correct.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Why that's been an insecurity of mine, I don't know
, but it's been very deep rootedand we got married when you and
I was 25.
So it wasn't like I had likethis huge dating history.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
No, you did, you had a ton of baggage.
So but the person that you withand had a father, his father
Caitlin.
Yeah, that's true, that's whathe did.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Well, I don't know.
There's no proof Deep down,deep down.
There's no proof Deep down.
I think there was somethinggoing on with others, but yeah,
right.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, so yeah, I think what's the question again.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
How do affairs get started and how do I protect
myself from getting into anaffair?
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Multiple reasons, but I think the biggest one is not
making your marriage yourpriority, not putting yourself
in situations that you have tomake choices like that.
So it's the when you get socomfortable, would you like.
(53:40):
I don't have to date my wifeanymore, I don't have to buy her
flowers just because, or and weget off rhythm is when we
haven't been dating each other,you know, when we're not like
that year we didn't have ourvacation.
That was a bad year for usbecause we chose not to do it,
(54:05):
and that wasn't fun.
So when we can get back to us,that's always a great time and I
think for these last four orfive years we've had a lot of
many vacations, you know oneweek vacations, like we're doing
(54:25):
this weekend.
You know we're here, kids arehome and we have people, you
know, watching them and.
Kaylin's there, so that's veryhelpful for most of the weekend
and but this is like I don'tknow.
I love being here in timing,but I love being here in Tybee
(54:46):
with you more than anything.
So this is just my, this is mypeace, this is my happy place.
And so if you can't have thatand you kind of get used to just
the routine and life and hislife and the world is just so,
it's going to suck you up.
Yes, You're out, and thenthat's when the devil gets in.
(55:10):
The devil.
That's the thing about it.
The devil knows you better thanyou know yourself sometimes, so
he knows what things he can doto entice you or make you feel
like, yeah, you know, thisdidn't happen and you need to do
this and you do that, make youfeel better and someone says
something to you, and so then,yeah, you get caught up in that
(55:31):
craziness.
You definitely do.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Well, yeah, setting up barriers for sure around you,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Boundaries.
I haven't, you know, saying hey, I'm not going to put myself in
this situation, that I have tomake a decision, or you know and
I think, I think sometimes wethink, oh, we're stronger than
that.
Oh, big time.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
So I'm not going to get sucked into that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah, it's not going to be me.
Yeah, that was my whole thingin my first marriage was that,
you know, first of all, I'm notgoing to get divorced.
All my brothers and sisterswere divorced and remarried,
more than one some of them.
So so it's like, oh, that's notgoing to happen.
(56:16):
And the crazy thing about it iswhen I met my, my other brother
, keith, he had been divorced.
This is his second marriage andman, he has a wonderful wife
and yeah, it's just crazy thatwe have all had that same
pattern and yeah, so that wasweird.
(56:41):
And at the time I thought, oh,that's kind of weird because you
know, our parents never got adivorce.
But thank, keith was Keith,because my father wasn't
faithful.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
Which is just shook my whole foundation.
So yeah, that's that's.
You know, obviously that's whenyou have that unresolved
conflict, that's when it'seasier for you, maybe, to step
out.
Yeah, it's easy for you to havean affair.
It's interesting Because thatperson superficially, yes,
fulfills something.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
You're not doing life with them, right?
It's like imaginary, it's likeTV.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
It's a fair tale, yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:20):
It's an escape.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
It's definitely an escape.
So for me, I'd rather escapewith you to somewhere that's
like anywhere really doesn'tmatter where we go.
Even that one time year that wejust did a staycation, the kids
went away?
Yes, they did go away.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
And thank you, thank you, family, for always helping
out on both sides.
Speaker 2 (57:43):
Yes.
The mom and your siblings havebeen a godsend.
Yeah, Carolyn, Nelly.
And your mother, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
I think John Kevin got shout out to him because I
think that year he drove halfwayto pick up the kids.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yes, he did, yes, he did.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
I mean he didn't take care of them, but he drove, he
drove, he drove.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, I love my brother.
Yeah, they're awesome, yeah, soyou know, it's just even then
like we went on dates that weekand went out to different places
in Atlanta, but we had to havethat one on one time.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
Okay.
So this question I have no idea.
So maybe you guys talked aboutthis.
It says something aboutspiritual blindness.
How does spiritual blindnesswhich I've never heard of this
term in my life play a part inmarriage problems and divorce?
What is spiritual blindness,and can a Christian become
spiritually blind 100%?
(58:38):
So what was that aboutSpiritual warfare?
Come back next week, where wecontinue the conversation about
marriage and answer somemarriage questions.
We define what the spiritualblindness is all about, and
Philip confesses something thathe has been very private about
(59:00):
concerning his first marriage.
So come back next week.
I hope you all have a wonderfulrest of your week and a
phenomenal weekend.
See ya.
Thank you so much for listeningto Virago 24-7.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
(59:24):
button and please give us fivestar ratings.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago 24
underscore seven, and onFacebook, at Virago 24 slash
seven, and just connect with usand share your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
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