Love Beyond Borders

Jessica's story is a testament to love's transformative power in the face of deeply entrenched cultural barriers. As a South Asian malayalee woman raised in a traditional household where arranged marriages are the norm, falling in love with a Black man meant choosing a path her family had never imagined for her.

When she first told her parents about JP, their response was swift and absolute—they refused to meet him, regardless of his impressive education, career success, and character. The painful conversations that followed tested Jessica's resolve, pushing her to seek therapy with a South Asian counselor who understood the complex cultural dynamics at play. Armed with strategies to maintain boundaries and stay true to herself, Jessica navigated the excruciating tension between honoring her parents and honoring her heart.

This episode explores the courage it takes to challenge generational patterns, the power of maintaining boundaries with love, and how sometimes the path to deeper family connection requires breaking with tradition. Whether you're navigating cultural expectations in your own relationships or simply appreciate stories of transformation and reconciliation, Jessica's journey offers both inspiration and practical wisdom for standing firm in your truth while keeping your heart open to healing.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
They say, love knows no color, no border, no caste.
But what happens when yourheart chooses someone?
Your culture says it nevercould?
She's an Indian woman raised ina world of tradition,
expectations and unspoken rules.
He's a black man, raised tonavigate a world where being

(00:21):
seen, heard and safe often comesat a cost.
Together, they dared to fall inlove, but her family.
They didn't just disapprove,they drew a line in the sand.
Culture, honor, fear, racismAll disguised as well.

(00:45):
This is what's best for you.
Today we're telling their storythe pain of being caught
between love and loyalty, theboundaries they had to build and
the courage it takes to loveanyway.
Hi, I am your host, leonetteTalley, and you are listening to

(01:07):
Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be

(01:28):
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing, with
Everyday Warriors.
Just give me my space to move,cause it's my thoughts, what I
want, and I want what I want.
Hello everyone, I am here withShiny.

(01:51):
Hello, jessica, hello, what'syour new last name, jessica?
Did you change your last name?

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Not yet.
I want to wait till after thehoneymoon, which is in November.
Okay To Robinson.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Robinson.
Yeah, mrs Robinson, mrsRobinson, robinson, meet the
Robinsons.
So everyone knows Shiny's voicehello, she's been on here many,
many times and Jessica is herfirst first cousin hello, first
cousin.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
She called, she calls me.
When she calls her step.
What do you call your?
You big, my big little yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I'm your little big sister.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Little big sister.
Yeah, it is, you are.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
So we, we this is round two of trying to record.
We try to record the three ofus back in December, I think it
was, and we were here, it wasdark, it was moody and we were
talking for like 40 minutes orso and the power went out.

(02:53):
It was really crazy, the powerwent out and it erased the whole

(03:18):
show.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
So anyways, and we were sad about it.
But the exciting thing I wantto mention is that you know we
all have lists of what we wantto do in our lives or dreams,
and bucket lists and excitingthings we want to get into.
And one of hers was recording apodcast.
So I was so excited whenLeonette was like definitely yes

(03:41):
, and because she was moving offto California, so she's back on
from you know, like a littlevacay to Atlanta for the weekend
.
And we got so lucky to havethis opportunity this afternoon,
this beautiful Sunday afternoon.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, the reason I wanted her on is this is a story
about culture and race andracism and just deep-rooted
traditions, and yeah, so let'sstart from the beginning.

(04:21):
Jessica, tell us a little bitabout yourself, and I don't know
if you want to start frommeeting him or talking about
your family dynamics.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
So yeah, so let's see .
So I guess the story I'm aboutto tell is about my current
relationship.
I am a South Asian, malayaleeIndian girl.
If you know anything aboutSouth Asian parents and families
, it's a very strict upbringing.
But basically I'm trying tothink where I want to start.

(04:56):
I've met someone while I wasdoing my clinicals out in
Georgia and we were friends forabout a year and then we decided
to date.
I am, like I said, malayaliIndian and he is black, and I'm
just going to talk about thewhirlwinds that I went through
in that situation and deterringand figuring out my relationship

(05:19):
with my family while creating anew family.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Well, like when I first met Jessica I met her a
few years ago and how old areyou?
30.
30.
So you were like mid-20s, Ithink when I met you.
And one of the things thatstood out when I told Shiny I
was like she is just so maturefor her age and so self-aware

(05:42):
and emotionally intelligent.
And so when you started datinghim and you started telling me a
little bit about your parentspretty much not being happy for
you, I think that's anunderstatement and the way you
were handling it was sowonderful, was so wonderful.

(06:10):
So let's talk about, yes, youmet him, he's black and like
your emotions behind it, knowing.
Did you know that your parentswere not going to be happy for
this union?

Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, I think initially from the beginning.
I think that's why I alsoremained friends with him for
such a long period of time.
And then, once we got into arelationship, I remember
speaking to him and I was likehey, I just want to let you know
like this is not going to gowell with my parents, it's going
to be an argument, it's goingto be just not something easy.

(06:34):
So if you want to go, the dooris open.
I'd rather just not be hurtlater and just be hurt earlier.
If you don't want to deal withthat and he's like I'm not
leaving you, You're not goinganywhere, I'm not going anywhere
.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
So that's so cute.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
And I think that that's very, you know, noble to
say, hey, we can be a lot, andculturally it's.
This is not going to be an easyroad to go down.
So you're giving him a fairwarning, like you know, and I I
think that that's something thatis, you know, valid, because it

(07:15):
isn't easy and I think nowwe're in a time in our lives
where we see a lot of mixedcouples.
But how we grew up and what wewere told, our parents are very
intentional to keep us within asmall bubble.
You know, a safe space theyfeel safe is a safe space.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
So question about that.
So what is it with the culturethat I mean?
I don't I'm trying to berespectful of the culture, but
it's discrimination or racism.
What causes that?
Like, what is it within yourguys' tradition that evokes that
?
Is it just black or is it whiteor is it, you know, other

(08:03):
cultures?
Like, how does what's themindset behind that?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, I think there's degrees.
So it's like, you know, whitepeople, those white people,
that's all right, spanish, allright, we're getting darker,
they're, they're OK, but they'relike really pushing it.
You marry someone black or datesomeone black, it's like they
think you're the devil, you know.
And I think it's because it'sdeep rooted racism.

(08:28):
Right, we're racist eventowards each other, like South
Indians versus North Indians,and I'm sure it's getting better
over time, but it's just we'reracist towards each other, Like,
so you know, to expect itoutwardly, it's, it's normal per
se, but I just think it's umjust deep rooted in security.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
It's something that they don't know.
You know, our parents came tothe U?
S and we said this last nighteven they only have, they don't
have any non-Indian closefriends in their circle.
They, you know, we go to an allIndian church and we put all
the kids at kind of the sameschools and we don't do play

(09:11):
dates and sleepovers and and ifwe hang out with anyone they're
other Indian people.
So, uh, whenever I try to starttelling my story or to try to
describe myself, it's, it'ssuper close, even trying, you
know, non Indian food until Ibecame an adult, I mean, it's a
very like our food, ourtradition, our clothing, our

(09:34):
like traditions, it's, it's,it's all you know.
So you, you feel safe in thatspace and that's how they feel.
So I think we got thedifferences They've, they're
raising us over here, so we'reintegrating with all different
races and people and there canbe more likelihood of you
becoming friends with non-Indianpeople, regardless of the race,

(09:57):
because you'll, we're just moreopen, we're here.
So, um and I and I Jessica, Iwant, I was thinking, maybe
describe why our parents havethese, cause they don't
obviously, they don't know, sothey're just looking out for us,
but why?
Why, culturally, that they havethese like okay it's, it's

(10:18):
maybe acceptable to white, butthe colorism is is a big thing.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Colorism is a a big thing, but I think that it's
also like a cultural barrier.
It's a language barrier.
They don't know how to interactwith anyone that's not their
own culture, um, and I thinkthat freaks them out like they
don't know how to interact withthis other person, so it's just
easier for them to just stay intheir own bubble.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
When did you decide you were in?
You friend zoned him.
When did you decide that youwere going to start dating and
were you going to tell yourparents?
Did you keep it a secret?
What did you do?

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah.
So like when we were friendsfor the year, I think I just
wanted to get to know himbecause I was unsure.
And then I remember at onepoint I was just like you know,
like we're really good friends,like let's just try it out.
And he was living at Georgia atthe time and I was doing travel
out in California.
I was like I just want to evensee if he'll book the ticket to

(11:18):
come cross country to see me.
Like that's a commitment initself.
And I was like hey.
And I was like hey.
And I remember initially I waslike what are you doing for New
Year's?
He's like, oh, I don't know yet.
I'll get back with you becauseit's a really busy time for
where he works.
I was like okay, but like Ithink like the next day I
already planned something withmy friend because I was like
you're taking too long, like youshould have been like yeah,
let's do something.

(11:38):
And I remember I ended uptelling him the next day, once
he got his clearance of what hewanted to do, and he was like,
yeah, like I think we can do it.
I was like oh, like I'm sorry,I kind of already made plans
with my friends.
He was like, oh OK.
And I was like but I'm going tohave this break and I think
that you should come toCalifornia, let's hang out and

(11:58):
just see how we are, and that'skind of like where it started.
And then, so my initial thoughtwas we weren't going to date.
But it ended up happeningbecause I really realized I
liked him and I told him becauseat the end of that trip we're
like okay, like should we betogether, and I was like I'll
let you know once you leave.
I want to see how I feel,because it's all lust and

(12:19):
happiness when you're all there,but it's like when that person
leaves, do you miss them or doyou feel like you go back to
your regular life.
And I, like I remember it washours after he left and I was
like I think I'm ready, like Ithink I want to be with this
person.
And, um, you know, then it'slike, oh crap, like how do I
tell my parents this?
And for me, I was going to keepit a secret for as long as I

(12:42):
could.
You know, the longer I wait,the better it would be for me in
my mind at that time, because Iwas just used to hiding things
you know.
Being an adult, it was justeasier to hide and ask for
forgiveness rather than just tobe upfront, and can just feel a
lot of chaos with Indian parents.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
So how long did you date him before you before you
decided okay?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
this is getting really serious and my parents
have to know yeah, so we starteddating at the end of december
2022 and I remember we were likelooking at rings, I think, like
four months in, um, and Idecided to.

(13:26):
After my contract was done inCalifornia, I decided to move to
Georgia, so he had a home, so Imoved into his home.
Um, what was the question?
Okay, wait wait, let's back.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Let's backtrack to moving into the home.
I didn't know you lived withhim.
Oh, yeah, oh, and how?
Okay?
What did you tell your parents?
I told them who you were livingwith.
That's what I want to know.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
So like fortunately, my parents kind of let me do my
own thing when I was doingtravel, so they didn't really
come visit me.
I would always just go visithome.
So I just said like hey, I'mdoing a travel contract out in
Georgia.
I did not have a job lined up.
I totally was like I'm going tomove in with him and I had no

(14:12):
idea what I was moving intoeither.
Like I had no idea what thecondition of his house would be
Like I had I booked a one-wayticket, having no idea what the
heck I would run into.
Fortunately he was clean andthe house was like in one piece
and not a trap house orsomething, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
So then you moved in with him, and how long, this is
okay, that part I didn't know.
So how long did you live withhim before you decide that your
parents need to?

Speaker 3 (14:42):
know.
Yeah, so actually this is kindof like a two-part story.
Well, first of all, we livedfor I think it was like six
months together before he gotpromoted to go out to California
.
So we were living togetherprobably for like four to five
months, if that.
And then he moves.
I was living in the house alone, um, I decided I needed so.

(15:07):
Initially I was going to tell myparents I don't remember the
time, um, but I tried to tellthem initially at first, cause I
went to go see them.
I was like I have to go tellthem.
And I remember I called myparents the day before.
I was like hey, like I am goingto bring someone down south
because I'm coming to visit.

(15:27):
And they were like OK, great,blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, yeah, like heis not Indian.
And they were like, ok, what ishe?
And I was like he's black.
And they were like don't bringhim them, like do not bring them
, you need to come alone on thatflight and come back home.

(15:48):
And I remember I was just cryingthe whole time because I was
like it just sucks when yourparents don't support you and
stuff.
And I remember that trip and Iremember it was only two days.
It was the worst trip of mylife.
My parents like cornered me inthe room and they were like hey,
like we don't think this isright for you.
They had me on like Indiandating sites and there was like
so much interest in you andthink about this guy and that

(16:10):
guy.
I'm like I, I don't want it.
I remember in that moment Icouldn't fight my parents.
I was like I'll break up withhim Cause it would just let them
off my back for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I went back to Georgia knowing that was like
not my intention them off myback for a little bit and I went
back to Georgia knowing thatwas like not my intention.
You know that makes me so, sosad.
I remember you saying, when youwere telling me about about
that dynamic, that on paper he'slike perfect.
And if you would have justshowed your parents like this is
the guy I'm dating, they wouldhave been like, oh my gosh, yes,
he's perfect.
But then you put the race on it.

(16:43):
That is so deflating that youare judging someone not even
about like.
As soon as you said color,they're like yeah, don't bring
them.
And without knowing nothingabout him.
That just it blows my mind.
And there's I mean there's somany families like that that
you're not even giving theperson a chance.
There's a girl that that I knowand we were just talking about

(17:03):
that.
She just started dating.
She's from one of the islandsand it's so funny how we're all
different shades of brown butfor some reason, the blacker you
are, the worse it is.
So this girl is brown too, butshe started dating a guy who's
black and they just saw apicture of him and her parents

(17:25):
are saying the same thing.
It's so weird.
I'm like we're not white people, we're not white, but just a
shade darker, just just, and Idon't know if it's the skin
color, probably is, but theculture and the misconception of
American black men, thatstereotype that is put on them,
and it really I think that'swhat drives a lot of these,

(17:48):
these fears and these cultures.
So you're not the only one.
I mean, I just literally hadthis conversation with someone.
I'm just like are you a parent?
I'm like your skin is prettydark, like it doesn't make sense
.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
It's definitely both.
I think, the the lighter, likeif you were like a light-skinned
black person looking our colorlighter, I think you're gonna
have an easier time, but thedarker you are, you know, if
you're like a con, yeah, you'regonna have a challenging time
well, I asked you that.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
I was like well, who do you normally date?
She's like mixed guys and herparents are okay, if you're, you
know, throw a little white inthere with the black, just you
know, swirl it up, swirl up thecolors and that's okay, that's.
I was like damn that's, that'scrazy to me, that's crazy.
So okay.
So he moves to California.

(18:39):
You're living in the house byyourself.
They say do not, do not bringhim.
They corner you.
Obviously you didn't break upwith him.
What happens next?

Speaker 3 (18:48):
So I remember at that point I was like, okay, I need
another game plan, like this isnot going to work.
So I'm like and JP was verysupportive I was like, hey, this
is how it went.
And he like honestly laughedwhen he was like, oh, like
you're on dating sites andwhatnot, he just thought it was
hilarious because, like he knewthat we weren't going anywhere.

(19:08):
And I remember I was like, okay, I have to go about this in a
different way.
So I put myself in therapybecause it was really, really
challenging and I remember Ispecifically wanted a South
Asian therapist because theyunderstand the stuff that we go
through.
So I went through like prettyextensive therapy.
Like every week I was talkingto her, seeing her, and I want

(19:30):
to say she was extremely helpfulin the situation.
And the second time when I toldmy parents cause it went way,
way differently the second time,and the second time how it went
is, I remember, I was alone inthe house.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
The only reason I want to interrupt you is when
you said he knew we weren'tgoing anywhere.
What do you mean?
You mean you two as a couplearen't going anywhere and you're
solid, or you mean you guysaren't going anywhere.
Future what did you mean?
Can you expand?

Speaker 3 (20:00):
That we're not breaking up.
We're staying together likehe's here to stay.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
So he wasn't threatened by the.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, because I want it.
That's important.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
I mean, not every person can handle, you know it's
a lot, it's heavy, yeah, and Iremember I would tell people
like not all the details, but Iremember like some guys I spoke
to they'd be like, oh, like I'dbe out of there, and personally
I think I I might've been out ofthere too, because it like, if
you don't like me and you'renever going to like me, what is

(20:34):
my fighting chance?
You know, like I'm Brown, Ican't do anything about that,
but I didn't.
He was like super emotional,like emotional, great regulation
, and he realized, hey, likethey're from a different country
, and I think he just knew, likehe has such a great personality
that eventually he would winthem over.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
So what?
What did the therapist like?
Because before that you werenot in therapy.
No, so what was it in therapy?
What did she teach you Like?
What did you learn so that thesecond time you approached your
parents it was?

Speaker 3 (21:06):
different.
It's time to stand up to yourparents, because it's not very
common Nowadays.
It's different, but to stand upto your parents and be like
this is your life, this is yourdecision.
You have to live your life anddo it exactly how you want.
And you know it took hours andhours of therapy to go through

(21:30):
each and little thing, butbasically come to that and I
remember I told her I was likehey, like I want to tell her
within these two weeks, cause mybest friend is coming into town
and I just knew I couldn't likedo it alone.
I was going to do it on thephone and she was like write a
script.
Like write a script on a pieceof paper.
Go by that.

(21:51):
Um, I remember on the top, likein the title, I wrote like stay
calm, stay cool, stay likecollected, because, like like,
as soon as you lose yourcomposure, like they will too.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
And then they have you.
So I want to say this, add thisis what you did is a really big
deal, and I understand that.
But I'm not sure, like ouraudience may not understand, how
grave this is for us, becauseit sounds bizarre, but we are
raised that we don't havecontrol, because you were saying

(22:27):
that.
The therapist said this is yourlife, this is.
You know, you control your life, who you spend it with, what
you do, but that is not what weare taught life, who you spend
it with, what you do, but thatis not what we are taught.
We are and I'm, you know, thisis my, my, my little sister,
cousin, like we're.
We're a big age difference andI, I would say, because I'm

(22:47):
older too, it's more ingrainedin me that I have no choices.
So I guess, when I just want toquickly say that from from,
from birth, our parentsdepending on the parent, but
Indian parents typically that wewere where we're from, and I
don't want to say likeeverybody's all the same, but
from where we're from, ourparents had full control where

(23:12):
we go to school, how we dress,who we spend our time with, what
we study when we become anadult, what we do
extracurricular wise, who we getto hang out with.
It's very, very controlled.

(23:33):
And then they also add in theychoose who we marry.
And then they also add in theychoose who we marry.
So I wanted to add that,because that is why you chose to
go to therapy, then have yourbest friend come, because this
was a really big decision.
And these are your parents andour parents aren't trying to be

(23:57):
like against us and and theytruly believe in their heart and
their mind that they have ourbest interests at uh in mind and
that they know better than us.
And they also believe thatmarrying someone of your own
race which I understand they getit.
You know, it's the same culture, same language, same everything

(24:19):
.
So they think that that's whatour lives will be easier.
And then I'll add in thatdefinitely Indian stat wise.
Arranged marriages have anextremely high success rate
because it's based onsocioeconomic status and not

(24:39):
love and lust and similareducation, religion, background,
and they do like a family.
It's like they do a familybiopsy on you know what's
everything that if, if, ifthey're a match.
So, based on that, you haveless chance of arguing over

(25:00):
money or uh, you know familyvacations or you know things
that you have in common.
So they really, truly believeand they also think like other
cultures.
Don't stay married and don'twork for it.
There's so many.
That's what I say I wanted to.
I want her to add that too,because this was a big deal.
I am really proud of how shehandled it like extremely proud

(25:24):
and very mature.
But what she did is really hard, because our parents do not
take that lightly.
They think you've done theworst thing ever, because how
could, how dare you choose yourpartner?

Speaker 1 (25:42):
So quick question before we move on to Jessica.
So, going back to it's sointeresting.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I want our audience to know, like you know why why
this was important to recordthat is interesting.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I'm going to go off track a little bit because that
fascinates me about the arrangedmarriage and that culture and
that there's no divorce.
But is it because they're happytogether or they are concerned
about the appearance of leavingthe marriage, what the community
would say?
So is it that we're happilyarranged or we're just kind of

(26:17):
stuck in this and we don't havea choice?

Speaker 3 (26:19):
I think the statistic of like, oh, arranged marriages
stay together, it's onlybecause they're forced to stay
together, they can't leave, soobviously it's higher.
But I mean, there are arrangedmarriages that really worked and
they really love each other,but the majority of the time
they just kind of like stay andthey kind of tolerate each other

(26:39):
.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Were you any of your parents arrange marriages?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
or yeah, both, both, both, both yeah, I was a
majority of our, like in our Imean because we're from two
different generations, butpretty much, yeah, that's, it's
the norm, you know, it's it is,it's what they know and you know
, and and they don't divert fromthat.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
And I know we're.
I know we're not talking aboutyou, Shani, but I know yours
wasn't arranged, but, like yousaid earlier, you all stay
within the same community, sothat's the pool that you have to
pick from right, absolutely yes.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
So yeah, and in my case, yeah, it was.
It was as if it was ordained byyou know, from from the
beginning.
You know, I was the same circleof friends and same church and
same language and sameeverything.
So, yes, it's it's kind ofchosen, you know, and it's super

(27:35):
encouraged.
So it's it's, it's what I knew,it's all I knew.
So I know that.
For you know, and I know,jessica, cause we her and I
talked about this last night we,we are, we are parent pleasers
who become people pleasers andthat is what we do.
We grow up learning that weneed to have good grades, we

(27:56):
need to have good education.
We are very driven, like I hearthat all the time from
non-Indian people is like, wow,you guys are so driven.
Or like my like for my kids,example, right, cause I'm second
generation and my kids anyonewho knows my kids are like super
driven and it's it's, it's it'swhat in nurture nature.

(28:19):
It's definitely it's 100%influenced by my parents.
It's got to be I.
The only difference I made is Igave my kids a lot of choices,
like expose them to way morethings than I ever was, because
I, I didn't have a choice.
I studied dance and I studiedpiano, piano, and I'm not
allowed to do outdoor sports, sowe'll talk about that another

(28:41):
day.
But yeah, that's how we'vealways been.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
So, like in your culture, like honor your father
and your mother is like thefirst commandment.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Honestly, might as be number one, yeah yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
So back to jessica.
So your friend is coming intotown.
Are your parents coming intotown too?
You said no, so you're callingthem on the phone.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
I'm calling them on the phone to tell them because I
remember speaking to mytherapist.
I'm like should I speak aboutit in person or should I do it
through the phone?
She's like I think you shoulddo it through the phone and then
go in person because it's goingto be the same thing, you just
have to realize.
And to me, when she said that,I was like the same thing.
I feel like it's worse.
I have to meet them in personto have to like you know.

(29:32):
And she's like no, it's goingto be the same thing.
And I was like, okay, well,sure, and I also want to tell
you, my therapist also marriedoutside of a race and I didn't
know too much about her becauseshe didn't disclose a lot.
But she was like, yeah, I wentthrough stuff hiding as well.
And I was like, okay, and itfeels nice to have somebody that
kind of understands yourstruggle in that way.
So that worked out really well.

(29:53):
But I remember, yeah.
So the second time I told themthrough the phone, I remember
exactly where I was sitting.
I was on the sofa and I had mypaper and my best friend was
sitting to the right of me likelooking at me holding the phone,
I think.
Actually I was like can youplease call them, because I
don't think I can do it, and Iremember.

(30:14):
So I called and I was like mymom picked up and she was like
hey, like how are you?
I'm like, oh, like I'm good.
Is dad there?
Because I want to talk to youguys?
And she was like no, he's not,he's like doing something.
And I was like, ok, can youguys call me back once you guys
are together?
And she was like OK, is likeeverything OK?

(30:34):
I'm like I had some time, whichkind of feels like forever, and
then she called back again, orI called her again because it
was taking a long time.
I was like where's my dad?
And I was like hey, like did hecome back?
And she's like no, he's notback yet.
Like are you okay?
Is everything okay?
I was like yes, but I need tospeak to you guys tonight
because I think my best friendwas leaving the next day, so I

(30:55):
needed to get it done while shewas there.
And she was like okay, likeI'll tell him to come home.
And I think my mom knewsomething was going down.
So I remember I got them bothon the phone.
I told them I was like hey,like I'm with this person, this
is who I want to be with, likethis is it?
And we're going to be togetherand eventually get married.

(31:16):
I didn't say that we like lovedeach other.
I think it was like too much.
But I told them, like you know,with the intention of getting
married, you know you love eachother.
So I remember their immediatereaction was it was quiet, like
I don't think they knew what tosay and I think they were just

(31:37):
like they said okay, in themoment.
And I think I just told themeverything.
I read off the script, you know,basically making my decision,
and then I think it was actuallykind of a short conversation
and then we got off the phoneand then the phone calls started
coming afterwards where my momstarted screaming.

(31:58):
The phone calls started comingafterwards where my mom started
screaming.
My mom was like how could youdo this to us?
You know you told us that youwere going to break up.
Like what's going on?
How is this going to look to?
Like people in the church?
And my dad was like you know,if we let you marry him, like

(32:19):
what are people you're going toset an example for all the girls
in our church to marry out.
And I was like what does thathave to do with me?
Um, and I remember like I hadto keep my composure the whole
time but all I wanted to do wasyell.
And obviously, like it got to apoint where we were talking in
circles and she told me mytherapist is like when it gets
to that point, you have to belike hey, you know, I'm going to
hang up the phone.
We're talking in circles.
There's no point in theconversation.

(32:39):
Hang up and we'll talk anotherday.
And I remember like I said thaton the phone and I hung up and
I was like I'll talk to youtomorrow.
And they kept blowing up myphone.
I kept looking and I was like Ifeel horrible, but I have to
say my word.
I have to stay true to it.
I remember my mom was like Ihave to stay true to it.
I remember my mom was like whyaren't you picking up?
She texted me.
She was like why aren't youpicking up the phone?
I was like I'll talk to youtomorrow.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Good for you.
Yeah, good for you, becausethat guilt trip that you were on
, that's insane and making youthe spokesperson for the church
and you're badly influencedthese young girls how dare you,
jessica, I know.
So did you talk to them thenext day, or did you?

Speaker 3 (33:26):
We talked and I remember it was really abrasive.
We didn't have that much of arelationship.
Like I remember I changed theringtone of my mom's ringtone,
so I knew that she was callingand I remember because JP would
be around me.
That's ringtone.
So I knew that she was callingand I remember cause JP would be
around me.
That's my um husband, um, andhe spoiler alert Um, he would

(33:52):
just be like, just just pick itup, like are you okay?
I'm like I, I just want to keepit short, like I don't want to
argue, just pick it up, like,are you okay?
I'm like I just want to keep itshort, like I don't want to
argue, you know, and I remembermy mental health took a decline
too, like I would get migraines,I would get headaches, and it's
like I had to realize like I'mprobably going to lose my family
over this Is it worth it.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
And what did you come up with?
Like were you willing to loseyour family over this?

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Yeah, it was so worth it.
Really yeah, like, even if it'ssad to say, if I had to lose my
family over it, it'd be worthit for me because he's
everything I've wanted.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Oh, I love that.
May I ask how exactly?
Just to have more detail, howexactly did you describe him to,
like, you know, our parents,like our, because our parents,
you know they really care aboutthe outside right Of how, like
my mom always, like when my momdescribed somebody like someone
got married.

(34:50):
They don't even have a name.
It's like the doctor marriedthe lawyer you know.
So yeah, I'm curious.
Like, how did you describe himon the phone?

Speaker 3 (35:00):
yes, I remember I was telling him I was like you know
, he's been to graduate school.
He went to UF.
My mom went to UF, which, ifyou know about UF, it's
considered the yellow Florida um, very great school and um, I
was telling him that he has agreat job.
He, like you know, is like thisyoung, great guy no kids,

(35:26):
that's a plus Just like thisincredible person who treats me
very well and I can think thebiggest thing is like what are
their credentials?
Like, what are their academics?
And he met those.
So I remember saying all thesegreat is like what are their
credentials Like, what are theiracademics?
And he met those.
So I remember saying all thesegreat things like he doesn't
drink.
And I remember my mom likedoesn't drink at all.
So I thought that would be agreat point to bring up.
But the fact that he was black,trumped that Doesn't drink,

(35:54):
doesn't smoke, has never smokedcigarettes or, you know,
cannabis, and she just likedidn't care, did not care.
She would try to convince me inevery phone call and I would be
like, no, like this is mydecision, like I've made my
decision.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
You can respect it or you can just move along you
know, and I if correct me if I'mwrong but didn't your parents
come back and say something likeit's okay if you marry an
Indian guy and he's not aseducated and is not as
successful as your man right now?
Yeah, I thought that wasinteresting.

(36:28):
Yeah, so that just showed thatit was race above everything,
right?

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Am I right that they said something like that, yeah,
but above everything, right, amI right that they said something
like that?
Yeah, I think this is kind ofinitially in the beginning, they
were, like it's okay, if youlike, find an Indian guy that
doesn't make as much as you.
And if you know anything aboutme, I want to get taken care of.
I want to, like, I want to be astay at home mom.
I want, like, a soft life.
You know, like I am a physicaltherapist.

(36:56):
It can get really crazy intherapy where there's a lot of
burnout, and JP knows this andwe actually created a plan of,
like how to retire in a certainamount of time and he's very OK
with me being at home and takingcare of the home.
And I remember I was like if Ihad to trade that in for an
Indian guy that like forces meto work and like, no, thank you,

(37:21):
like facts and and you're notlike attracted to him.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah it's just because you're from the same
culture like bump that just likeno thanks, and I think for a
long time.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Because I've seen like my friends date indian guys
.
I was never really interestedin brown guys.
Um, I just I would always heartheir stories about them doing
it wrong and like I can't, youcan't put indian men at all in
one category, like that's notfair.
But I just never really wasattracted to them.
I never like felt that wayabout them.

(37:52):
So I always dated outside of myculture and liked it.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
So I love how she said and liked it yeah, all
right.
When did your parents comearound?
Because obviously you spoil.
We went to the end so we knowyou're married.
Are they a part of your life?
Yeah, did they come to thewedding?
Are they supportive, like whatis happening now?

Speaker 3 (38:16):
yeah, so it was really funny about.
It wasn't last year, it was theyear before.
It was July 4th weekend.
I remember JP and I we were inVegas and I remember my mom
called me while we were in Vegasand I'm like I try to avoid her
phone calls when I'm with himCause like it's like I have to
say certain things, I don't wanthim to hear certain things.

(38:37):
And my mom just called and shewas like hey, like you know,
I've been thinking also beforethis prior.
My best friend was there.
Like I said when I told them,and my mom and my best friend.
They are close and I remember mymom ended up calling my best
friend after I told about myrelationship and my best friend

(39:00):
pretty much advocated for me.
She was like do you want tolose your daughter over this?
And I remember my mom sat therereally quiet and she was like
no, like I don't.
You know, that's not the lifethat I want.
She's my only daughter and Ithink she thought about it.
She called me that weekend.
She was like hey, I just wantto let you know like I want you

(39:24):
to be happy.
And I was like is this my mom.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
I have to say so.
Sujamama, her mom is myfavorite aunt.
I mean, I know I don't have abunch of them, but she really is
.
I think probably everybody'sbecause she's just so, so loving
, like that's where Jessica getsit from, I mean, like she's so,
so, like incredibly loving,like you see her heart miles

(39:49):
away.
So when Jessica told me thather mom reacted like her mom, I
felt like her dad would comearound first, just because you
know he calls her in ourlanguage like sweetheart, you
know my dad would come around ifmy mom came around.
And just how mature.
I mean.
I know she's really educatedand really smart.

(40:10):
But just because you'reeducated doesn't mean you have
that emotional, likeintelligence, right.
And when she was telling meeverything that her mom said,
like even now my eyes get wateryLike that's true love is
accepting, you know, acceptingus as we are.

(40:30):
You know unconditional love.
I don't think everybody has it,even parents.
Even parents don't haveunconditional love for their own
kids, like if you have it inyour life.
It's rare, you know, have itfor somebody or having someone
have that for you.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
So when she told me that it's so beautiful, and
don't get me wrong, like my momtotally like gaslit me and would
be like I didn't sleep lastnight.
I haven't been sleeping, my dadhasn't been sleeping, you know
like.
So before we got to this greatpoint, like they were
gaslighting me and telling meall these things and the phone

(41:09):
calls were miserable.
I would hate seeing them.
I was like.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Leonette, can you explain to us what gaslighting
is?

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yes, please.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I mean I can, I can, I can Google it.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Someone is kind of lighting a fire on you, meaning
they're questioning you or beinglike.
If you say, it really hurts myfeelings that you didn't hold my
hand, and someone respondswhat's the big deal?

Speaker 1 (41:38):
What's your problem?
It's like when they turn itaround back on you, Exactly Like
you're making their livesmiserable.
And what about what you did tome?
It's like you get the reaction,but then their reaction is
because of your reaction.
It's just a vicious cycle.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, exactly, and it's, and it's, and it can cause
the person who is trying toseek help or tell you know, say
their feelings like make themfeel guilty about it.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Well, I think also, when you're being gaslit, you
start feeling like you're crazy,like you're cuckoo for Cocoa
Puffs, like wait, was I in thatsame situation, because that's
not how I saw it?
And now I'm feeling crazybecause maybe I misunderstood
what was happening.
You feel crazy, yeah, and sothey were just gaslighting you.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, and I remember, like you know, you stay strong
on the phone, but you get offthe phone and you're like you
know what is what I'm doingright?
Am I truly hurting this person?
And it's like, yeah, I am.
But it's like when am I goingto live my life, you know, and I
thought about I was like okay,if I let them win and I break up
with JP is his name, and I haveto start all over Like is that

(42:56):
the life I want to live, givingthem their happiness, like
they're going to pass off and dotheir own thing and they're
married and happy.
And like, what about?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
me.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
So I knew in that moment I was like no, like I'm
not going to do that what aboutme?

Speaker 1 (43:08):
so I knew in that moment I was like no, like I'm
not gonna do that.
So when she finally came aroundduring that conversation, was
she really meaning it, or shejust said it for that moment, or
did she stick with it?
And then, when did they meet JP?

Speaker 3 (43:21):
I think that she meant it when she called me,
which I think my my eyes startedwatering and I thought it was
dreaming.
Um, she was like you know, Iwant you to be happy.
I've been thinking about it, um, and we should meet him.
And I was like, um, I don'teven like, I don't think I had
words.
I was like, uh, and like I'mhaving tears going down my eye.

(43:42):
Jp is like in the room notknowing what's going on, like
I'm in the bathroom taking itsecretly.
And I was like um, okay, um,yeah, uh, let me call you later.
I remember I told JP and JP waslike, yeah, that's great.
I'm like you don't know whatthis means.
Like this is a huge milestone.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
I love.
I love how chilly is about he'slike about it.
He's like, yeah, you know he'snot, he didn't sound intimidated
by it.
Or your parents are racist.
I never want to meet them Like.
He sounds like he's just takingit like so chill, which speaks
volumes, because you can reallyyou know, if you're that person,
that it's like they don't evenknow me and why they treated me

(44:26):
this way, or or, you know,betray me this way, and most
people would probably be angryby that and, and you know, be
bitter.
But for him just be like, yeah,sure, let's meet.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
That's, that's really cute actually, and I think I
have to say prior to this, um, Iremember telling so shiny is my
cousin.
Shiny was the first one to everknow about JP.
But I end up telling my othercousin in California, who I'm
also very close to, about mysituation, and his parents are
my aunt and uncle are superprogressive.

(44:57):
I don't know what it is aboutFlorida, but Florida Malayali
people are like not asprogressive as people in
California and New York andTexas.
But he was like do you want meto tell my dad about you and JP?
Like maybe they can abdicateand his dad could talk to his
brother, which is my dad.
And I was like I don't know,roshan, like they're pretty

(45:18):
upset, but okay, let's try itout.
So I remember like I had aconversation with my uncle and
my uncle like literally askedfor his like bio data, which is
basically your resume, causethat's how Indian dating goes.
And he was like I remember wehad the call and he was like he
sounds like a really great guyand he actually ended up
Googling him prior to like helooked him up on LinkedIn and

(45:41):
everything.
He's like he just sounds like areally great overall guy and
the thing about JP is.
He's very involved.
He's very involved in the blackcommunity too.
He was like a mentor and aleader at UF and he was like he
sounds great.
We just have to make sure totalk to your parents about it
and I think it all worked outbecause I think they were going
to go see my parents like twoweeks later, so they ended up

(46:04):
meeting, had a conversation withmy parents and my parents were
not having it.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Really so after that conversation that you had with
your mom, they still weren'thaving it.
This is before, oh, prior, okay.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
So let's say this is May, so even the own family
members.
This is your dad's brother,Brother they were not having it
who he highly regards, and hetried to advocate for me Brother
, they were not having it who helike highly regards, and you
know he tried to advocate for me.
But like my parents were notbudging, they're like we're not
happy.
This is not what we picturedfor our life, for our daughter.
So like we don't want to comearound to it, like I don't

(46:40):
really care what he has, hisaccolades or whatever, like this
is, it's just not fair to them.
Wow.
And I remember, because Iremember calling him afterwards,
I'm like how'd it go?
Like you know, like did it gowell?
And he was like, yeah, likethey they're really upset,
they're not ready to receive it.
So it made it was like a daggerto my heart because I'm like,

(47:03):
if they don't want to accept itcoming from like his brother,
who they absolutely love, Idon't know if there's like a
future for me.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
So so then your mom said we're ready to meet him.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Yep, and JP was like, let's do it yeah, um, and it's
really funny because I wasworking in Georgia and he was
working in California at thetime.
He ended up getting a flightthat was way earlier than mine.
So my dad picked JP up from theairport and had like a full day

(47:41):
with him prior to me evengetting there.
And oh my gosh that nuts.
I was so impressed, yeah andwhen I tell you, I was at work
crapping my pants and jp wasjust chill about it, chill about
it he's like oh, it's gonna gofine.
I remember texting during work.
I'm like how's it going?
What's going on, like, are theybeing nice?

(48:02):
And then he's like, yeah, wejust went to ihop together.
We like um, I didn't find outtill later, but he like asked
for, like, even though we wereengaged yet no, not yet.
He asked for, like my dad's,you know like asking for
permission to marry, hisblessing, his blessing yeah,

(48:24):
okay, he's confident.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
I love that about him .
He's really confident.
I know it's so great Like thatis such an amazing hot quality
Right for a guy you know Aconfident man, confident man is
hot.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
You know, yeah, it's one reason I love Phillip so
much.
Yes, his sexy voice and hisconfidence.
Okay, so then you come intotown.
Okay, first of all, before wehave you come in, would they be
rude, like even if they felt acertain kind of way?
Would they even be rude inperson?

(49:00):
Or would they be on their bestbehavior, even if they feel a
certain kind of way?

Speaker 3 (49:05):
I don't think that they would be rude.
I think they would just be likejust behavior, even if they
feel a certain kind of way.
I don't think that they wouldbe rude I think they would just
be like just don't have themcome because you know.
But no, I don't think so.
And I think they wanted to beopen.
And then I remember like sothey had breakfast at ihop and
then I think jp was like hey,like you know, I want to marry
your daughter.
I've never been to jail, Idon't have kids.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Like any questions you want to ask, like go ahead
and ask sorry, my blacklist isnot going to go away, but
everything else is wonderful,like I'm like yeah, top tier.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Basically, um, like, what are your concerns that you
have with me?
Um, and I think my dad likereally received that and loved
that about him.
And then I remember like, yeah,I was texting him, texting him
like, so, like what's going on?
He's like, yeah, like we'reactually going to Costco
together to like get tires.
I'm like you're doing what?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Okay, Jessica's family.
They are Costco lovers likehardcore, like probably every
single person that works atCostco and just shops there
knows her parents.
So that's a big deal.
I'm going to take you to myCostco, yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Show.
So that's a big deal.
I'm gonna take you to my Costco, yeah, show you off to my
people, right?
But yeah, they like had a greattime.
Um, you know, I got there laterthat night and it was awesome.
Like I don't know what happened, but I it's.
I owe it to God because it'sthe only reason of how it
happened.
You know, I think I rememberduring that, like what was so
challenging for me and thosefour months.

(50:29):
It took four months, only fourmonths, but those four months
felt like four years and I wouldjust keep my faith with God
every single time, like I knowthat you're going to like
deliver, and like I think Godwas like all right, you've like
proven it and like here you go,so like yeah, yeah, I was only
God, because that's the onlyreason, that's the way yeah and

(50:50):
so then, after that, we're happyfamily yeah.
So then you know, initially itwas so funny because we're like,
okay, like we're gonna elopebecause, like my parents don't,
um, you know, like accept us.
And then my mom was like, no,like you're our only daughter,
we're gonna have a wedding.
I was like, oh, she's like, sowe planned a wedding in eight

(51:11):
months, which is very short, ifyou know, in wedding terms,
there's generally a year, um,but yeah, we planned a wedding
in eight months.
It was awesome.
It was a huge black and brownIndian wedding and our families
just meld together so well,really, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Because you just got married, june of this year.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
So like less.
It's been two months.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
And so the families get along.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yeah, they do, and I was very nervous about it
because I was like, okay, likeit's kind of weird, but like
their family is so open to usand our family has been so open
and I think we've embraced that.
Actually, our moms have calledeach other, so I think that's so
crazy checking up on each other.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
I love that you bring God into it, because everything
in my life when you look back,it's like when people ask, well,
how did that?
I'm like God has his hand inthings and only God can turn a
heart around, which is it givesyou goosebumps.
If you think about it, if youhave that faith, it's really
cool to see God change people'shearts.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, and I think God brought me into this world to
break these generational curses.
Like he is, like I remember Iwas like God.
Why did you choose me to be thewarrior?
I?

Speaker 1 (52:26):
don't want to be the warrior anymore.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
It's exhausting being the warrior.
Yeah, it is.
He brought me through it andout of it and I'm so grateful
and you're happily.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
You're happily married, you're.
You're excited that you madethat choice, yes, and your
future is so bright.
I love it.
I love it, and when thosegrandbabies come, they'll just
forget.
They'll forget all of it, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm excitedfor you and just watching your
journey is it's so, it's soinspiring, because it's I.

(53:04):
I think it's so cool when youngpeople break that and they
don't even realize it, like Ithink, going through it.
Obviously it was painful foryou, but from the outside,
looking in, it's like this younggirl who grew up in this
culture has the cojones to justgo on her own, and how difficult
that is.
It's.
I think it's pretty cool.
It's really cool.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
I feel, uh, so inspired by her and I have
learned so much this experiencebecause that's and I'm much
older I have lived my entirelife, um, trying to please my
parents and our community andtoo scared to actually live my

(53:47):
life the way I wanted to.
So when I see that Jessicastood up for herself, and and
rightfully so, there wasn'tanything malicious about it at
all.
She just wanted to choose whoshe wanted in her life, and that

(54:07):
is, you know, people don'trecognize that your life partner
is the biggest choice you canever make, and to have no
control over that and just go inso whimsically like it's
nothing and just go in sowhimsically like it's nothing

(54:30):
it's.
I think that that's what peopleme included but we don't know,
you know, we don't know and I dowant to say, um, my
relationship with my parents hasbeen.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
I remember I prayed for it too.
I was like because my friendQuay in PT school.
She was so close to her mom andI was like I wish I can be
friend quay in pt school.
She was so close to her mom andI was like I wish I can be
close to my mom and I actuallyprayed to god about it.
I was like, hey, god, like it'sme again.
Um, you know, I really want tobuild a close relationship with
my mom.
I want that relationship.
And god was like, okay, youpass through and like we're

(55:01):
closer than ever.
Like me and my parents, we geton the phone and they know
everything.
Now, like they know mywhereabouts.
Before I'd be like, oh yeah,I'm here, but I would really be
somewhere else and like, yeah,they know everything.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
I, I absolutely love that for you.
Like, absolutely love that foryou.
I'm, I'm, I'm thankful thatyou're sharing your story,
because I know, being friendswith Shini for so long, that,
like, this kind of stuff is topsecret and you don't talk about
it and you got to keep it inhouse, and so, for I know, for

(55:36):
some people it's like what's thebig deal?
But when you grow up sosheltered and like I see it, I
get it, even though I didn'treally grow up in that
environment it's pretty cool tosee the outcome.
Yeah, yeah, this is a big deal,guys.
This is a really, really bigdeal.
So I thank you for sharing,because that's a big deal too.

(55:57):
And, shiny, even though you'relearning this later in life, you
should be proud of you and youraccomplishments and you,
finally, are living your bestlife and living your truth.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think it's you know I, youknow I always feel like there
are energies, can influence.
You know a room right.
But and and I felt like herenergy of her standing on her
own, knowing what she wanted,knowing that this is a good man

(56:36):
who treats me well, I deserve tobe treated well and putting
that trust in her parents, thatthey can trust her Like I think
that that's another thing thatwe said confidence, right,
confidence is mutual too.
Like we give to our kids, wewere confident in them, we trust

(56:56):
them, and it goes back andforth.
So, like that's a bigconversation I've been having
with my teenagers is you know, Itrust you.
I need you to trust me back too.
You know it works both ways.
So I think that had a lot to dowith it too, because Jessica is
a really loving, kind kid toher parents and I think they had

(57:20):
to trust her that she picked agood person, a good hearted
person, because ultimately,that's what a parent should want
.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
And I mean this whole story has so many lessons.
It to me feels like boundariesdo work and if you stick to your
guns, no matter what the otherside is saying, it all works out
.
Whether they were going to be inyour life or not, your life was
going to be okay, and I think alot of our decision-making is

(57:53):
always in fear of what othersare going to think.
And when you take back yourlife, so boundaries not being
gaslit, you staying calm and notgiving in to that whirlwind
because as humans, we can getcaught up in that drama and,
like when you were saying havingthat conversation, it was going
around in circles, some of uswill just go around in circles

(58:15):
with them.
When you learn to just come outof that, that whirlwind and
just let that person just goaround in circles by themselves,
that's a huge lesson.
And just owning owning yourconvictions and just allowing
God to just work it out.
And if they were not meant tobe in your life for the rest of
your life, that's between themand the Lord and you are going

(58:35):
to be with the man you love,which is, yeah, really cool.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I want to say, um, I'm not like this judging.
You know, like shiny alwayssays I'm super confident, I am
not this like super confidentall the time time type of person
.
Right, Confidence is a muscle.
The more that you practice it,the better it becomes, the
stronger it gets.
And I have to actively havedays where I'm like I am not

(59:00):
confident on certain days,sometimes as a therapist,
sometimes as a person, but it'slike something you just have to
realize in your mind.
It's like you have to activelybe like no, I am, and I am this
person and no one can do itbetter than me, and you have to
believe in yourself.
So, yeah, and then I alsoreally feel like, at the end of

(59:21):
this, all trust in God.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Yeah, I thank you again.
This is a big deal to sharestories, especially when you
grow up in a culture whereeverything needs to be kept
private.
And I thank you, shiny, and Ithank you Jessica, and I'm glad
that round two worked out for us.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yes, I'm so happy that we got together and that
Jessica was able to share herstory with you, leonette, and
our wonderful community that isso supportive of women taking
back our power, in a way,because we are powerful and

(01:00:01):
you're right.
I see the confidence in youbecause that's also what I want
to see.
You know, I think it'sbeautiful and I mean she, like I
said, she's my little cousinsister that I look up to.
I mean she is taller than mebut you know I look up to.
She's inspired me in so manyways and I can't wait to share

(01:00:22):
that with you soon.
All right, thank you, ladiesLove you lots Good luck.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Thank you, ladies, love you lots.
Good luck and have a safe tripback to California.
Thank you.
All right, jessica Bye, sharniBye Bye.
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(01:00:47):
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