February 21, 2024 • 40 mins
Have you ever caught yourself mimicking your parents' approach to raising kids, for better or worse? That's one of the many topics we tore into with UK-based parenting guru Kathy Bowers, who joined me, Lyanette Talley, for a candid talk on Virago 24/7. With Kathy's seasoned insights, we navigate the complex waters of family communication, shedding light on the silent power of non-verbal cues and the significance of confronting our own personal challenges to improve familial bonds. This is a hearty discussion on recognizing and reforming those engrained parenting patterns that may not serve us or our children well.
We delve into the tender balance of respecting our adult children's independence while remaining their steadfast support system. This episode is peppered with personal anecdotes and the shared wisdom that sometimes, the best thing we can offer our adult children is patience, a listening ear, and maybe a little bit of space when it comes to their choices.
To wrap up, Kathy and I reflect on the importance of self-care for parents and the ripple effect it has on the entire family dynamic. Prioritizing our well-being isn't just a good move for us, it's a game changer for our kids. We discuss practical steps parents can take to set boundaries, create nurturing routines, and be actively present, all while nurturing a home environment where open, heartfelt communication is at the forefront. Whether you're a new parent or you're watching your kids navigate parenthood themselves, this episode is filled with the kind of seasoned advice and warm support that can only come from two people who've lived through the parenting trenches themselves.
Connect with Kathy Bowers:
https://www.life-change-coaching.co.uk/
Go to my website virago247.net for all things Virago 24/7
You can email me at virago247podcast@gmail.com
Instagram: virago24_7
Facebook: Virago 24/7
Thanks for listening and don't forget to share, share, share!
Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!
Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I am your host, leonette Talley, and you are
listening to Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
(00:24):
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
Hey, everyone, thanks forcoming in another week on Virago
(00:48):
24-7.
Today I have a special guest.
We haven't had a special guestin a while and she is here from
the UK, can you imagine.
She reached out and I was likeof course she's a parenting
coach and we've talked aboutparenting on this show a few
dozen times.
Everyone that listens haschildren, and I'll know that I
(01:12):
have my three kids, that I'mtrying to find ways to
communicate all stages of their.
I have all the stages.
I have elementary, well,actually, I have middle college
and high school.
So, anyways, kathy Bowers isall the way from the UK and
instead of me running down theline of who she is, I rather
(01:35):
have her introduce herself andlet us know a little bit about
you, kathy, welcome.
Hello everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
My name is Kathy Bowers, as Lunette has said.
I'm from the UK and I'm aparenting and teen coach and
I've been working with familiesand their children for over 40
years in all different areas andthe last 20 before starting my
business life change coaching.
I worked with social care andthat was going directly into the
(02:05):
family's homes to help with allparenting issues, behavioural
problems and looking at what theparents needed to do first for
themselves to be able to meetthe needs of their kids, and
it's been really interesting.
It's been a really interestingjourney I've had from the age of
16 to now the age of 70, whenI'm doing my business now, and I
(02:29):
finally feel that I've got myvocation because now my help
parents who have triedeverything but they're still
stuck.
They're having problems withcommunication and just
relationships with theirchildren and they want to find a
better way to make thingseasier for them, have an
improved relationship and tomake parenting easier.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, no, that's great and I have many friends
and we talk about parenting andwe throw ideas at each other,
but what I find is that we'rekind of mimicking how we were
raised and what was done when wewere children and realizing
that that doesn't always work.
(03:12):
So we're retraining our brainsand reading and researching and
learning how to communicate in adifferent way, and that's very
difficult.
To retrain your brain.
What is the process withparents that you guide them
through in order to kind ofswitch?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, the first thing is making sure that you look at
what's happening for you froman everyday point of view and
what maybe is impacting on howyou compare them.
Because if you've got problemsat work, if you've got mental
health issues, if you've got aphysical disability, you're in
constant pain, for example, abad back pain that can make you
(03:50):
irritable and not receptive toyour children.
So if you've got things likethat, if you've got postnatal
depression, you need to sortthat out first for yourself, to
make sure you're in a good place.
Also, to make sure that youhave quality time each day.
It doesn't matter what time ofthe day for yourself.
Start off with maybe 15 minutes.
(04:11):
It just gives you thatheadspace to clear your thoughts
, calm down and be in a betterplace for yourself.
And once you've done that, thenyou can sort of engage much
better with your children.
And then, looking at yourparenting, we've all come from
how we've been parented and somewe've had very good input and
(04:35):
we can still take that and useit, but others not necessarily
we might have been shouted at,we might have been smacked out,
and I know I was all thosethings, and you bring it along
to your parenting and you don'trealise, in a way you're sort of
repeating that pattern that youhad to your children.
And I went through it.
(04:55):
I mean I went through likesmacking my kids and screaming
at them, and I've got three,they're all adults now and I'm a
grandma of two.
But I went through all this andthen I suddenly froze and I
thought hold on a minute.
If smacking your child oncethen prevents that thing
happening again, maybe.
Okay, not justifying it, butmaybe that's it.
(05:19):
It could work.
But it doesn't, because you cansmack, you can shout, you can
scream, and it's repeated allthe time.
So all you're doing isinstilling fear, you're bullying
your kids.
You're much taller than theyare, you know, so that's the
wrong way to go about it.
So it's looking at parentingagain and regarding how we
communicate.
The first thing we give out isour body language.
(05:41):
90% is body language.
You might not understandsomeone's language.
You know what they speak to you, but you can understand their
body language, facialexpressions, again, that shows.
And then your voice, but notjust your voice, it's the tone
of your voice.
So there's lots of things likethat and it's the same when you
(06:05):
look at your children.
Lots of your children areresponding and you might think
it's in a negative way.
You think, oh, they're having ago at me, they're trying to
irritate me.
No, no, no, they're youngerthan you.
They might not have thevocabulary to tell you what
they're thinking or feeling, sothey show it in another way and
if they can't vocalise it, theyget frustrated, you know, and
(06:29):
they act out.
And again, if they've beentrying to get your attention and
you've been too busy on yourphone and not really having that
space to sit down and reallylook at them and take it all in,
they can try and get yourattention.
You're not getting it, so thenthey'll try something else, like
a youngster might come up witha toy and put it on your lap and
(06:51):
you go yeah, yeah, and you pushit away.
And then they might come backagain with that toy and whack
you.
And then your response is howdare you?
You've been really naughty.
What they've been trying to sayis I want some attention here,
but we've missed that bridge, asit were.
And then you've got otherchildren who keep on trying and
they're not getting anywhere.
So they withdraw intothemselves and you all think, oh
(07:13):
, he's such a good boy.
He never asks for anything.
You know they look how nicelyhe plays.
That's not necessarily the case.
What he's done is internalizedall his feelings and because
you're not responding you knowthat happens a lot when people
are suffering from depressionand they can't respond You're
sort of closed to yourself andyou're closed to what's going on
(07:35):
around you.
So you see lots of childrenlike that or you get the other
side of the coin where thechildren have learned they'll
only get your response andattention when they've done
something you know, really sortof hit someone or broken
something.
That's when you respond.
So they've learned the wrongway of the negative.
Let's respond badly and we'llget my mum and dad's attention.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, no, that's good .
I can totally relate to theinternalizing because that's how
I was as a child.
And then also I noticed that inmy oldest child, like she was
just always very capable anddidn't ruffle any feathers Not
really.
You know, kids are going to bekids, but for the most part and
now she's about to be 23 andthose things are coming out now
(08:23):
with the anxiety and depressionand trying to figure out who she
is.
Do you have any input on that?
Like I understand, like whenyou're little, but what if
they're already past that stage?
And quote unquote, the damagehas been done, you know, to
putting so many words.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
The main thing is not to blame yourself, because lots
of children, from the word, go,if they're in a house where
there's arguments and all sortsof things going, they
automatically feel are thearguments because I'm here, they
take it all on board.
You know, for the moment theybreak up.
Have you broken up because ofme?
(09:01):
It's so difficult becausethat's what they feel, you know.
Or they've been piggy in themiddle in the relationship and
they don't know who to pleasebecause they don't want to
choose.
They love mum, they love dadand it's so difficult.
So when you get past, when youget into later adolescence or
older, like your daughter is,and you have to accept that
(09:24):
whatever's happened to youwasn't anything to do with you,
it was out of your control.
But now you've got to look atthe scenario that, where you are
now as a person, look at howyou're achieving or, like you're
saying, are there areas of yourlife that you feel unsure?
Have you got low self-esteem?
(09:45):
And if that's the case, youneed to get help.
You need to seek help.
You know, be it either going tosomeone or you can get lots of
books or the self-help CDs thathelp you.
So there's so much out therenow that can really help you
feel more confident, build yourconfidence and put yourself in
the better place.
(10:05):
If you are able to talk to atleast one of your parents about
it, that's great, you know, butnot everyone can.
But the main issue is to reallyself-heal yourself.
You can look back and obviouslyyou're going to have a mixture
of memories, good and bad.
So keep the good ones, alwayskeep the good ones, but learn
(10:27):
from what's happened in the pastas not your fault, as the
negative things which yourparents have been going through.
And you will never know exactlywhat your parents went through
at that time, because I won'ttell you.
I know I went through depression.
I didn't realise.
I was depressed for maybe twoyears.
(10:49):
I didn't realise, but I wasresponding negatively towards my
children.
And then, when that depressionlifted, I could then look back
at the old me and think, christ,you really were.
And he was pushing the buttonsleft, right and central on you.
I mean I've become suicidal.
I've really had come down thatroute, you know, and he was.
(11:12):
He didn't want to, he didn'tcare, he didn't care what I did,
he wouldn't care if I ended itthere.
And then, as far as he wasconcerned, he was so arrogant,
you know, it was just how he was.
But the damage that I've beendoing to my kids, you know, I've
been shouting, I've beenscreaming, I've been hitting,
I've been not and not availablefor them.
And only then I came back and Ithought to myself.
(11:36):
It took a long time but Ithought I have to forgive myself
because I can't live in thepast.
What's done is done, but I haveto learn from it and try and
rebuild that relationship withmy children, which luckily I did
.
But it takes a lot because youfeel guilty after you've had the
arguments and you're shoutingand screaming and things.
(11:59):
They feel sick.
You feel sick, you know, but itwas a pattern that I was
getting myself into all the timeand I was waking up, thinking,
oh God, am I going to haveanother day like yesterday?
And so I automatically talkingabout body language.
My body language to them wasthey looked at me and they could
sit because they always observe.
(12:19):
You watch it 24, seven.
They obviously thought, huh,she thinks we're going to just
be like we did yesterday.
Well, we might as well, becausewe're not going to get any
thanks or praise here.
So it was a vicious circle.
But then I started treating eachday differently and looking at
the positives.
What was going on for my kids,what were they doing well, what
(12:42):
little things they were trying,and then actually saying to them
I've noticed you have done this, well done.
Thank you for helping me withthis.
You've been so patient, waitingfor me to finish doing this
before we could do something.
You know, and the differencewith giving praise rather than
criticism to anybody.
You see a completely differentreaction, because children want
(13:05):
to want to please you and wewould much prefer to have a
relationship that everyone's inharmony and sync, rather
thinking, oh, what's, what's thenext big argument?
Why is that coming?
So it's vital to be really opento your children and really be
available for them on a dailybasis and let them know that you
(13:29):
value them and you value theiropinions, especially as they get
older.
You know the teams include themin everything.
Say like hey, I know you'vemaybe come in the house and
you've.
You look like you've had a bitof a rough day.
If you feel like talking aboutit, I'm here for you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I like that I like erasing what happened yesterday
because, to be honest, theteenage years weren't as bad as
just now that she's an adult,kind of transitioning from from
I'm your parent, but I can'ttell you what to do and come and
just learning to come alongsideher.
(14:08):
And I've had a change how I youknow, because I was a Yeller,
you know I come from a culture,I'm Latin, from Latin America,
and so we're very passionate andwe, you know, even screaming
it's just normal in that culturelike the screaming, and then oh
and so that's, you know, that's, that's what I've seen and you
(14:28):
know it wasn't reallydetrimental to me.
But I see in my kids that itdoesn't work for them, you know
they're they're different,they're not growing up in that
same culture.
So I've had to shift how I, youknow, I respond and they're so
different, oh my gosh.
So what I can do with this one,I can't do with that one, and
so on and so forth.
So I like the treating everyday differently and giving
(14:55):
validation.
Yeah, I need to do that alittle bit more.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And so with the older children, you know, when
they're adults, like I mean, myeldest is now 43.
And then I've got one who's 37and it goes back, you know,
another three years after thatfor my daughter and they've got
their relationships.
You know, two of my sons havegot babies now and it's now a
question of you can't treat themlike you did when they were
(15:22):
little.
You have to now sort of stepback and think right, you're
doing so.
Well, listen, really listen tothem and see what they have to
say and what they're doing, anddon't step in to sort of make
corrections of how they I meanthe parenting at the moment I
sort of think some things Iwouldn't do, but that's hey, I'm
(15:44):
the grand now.
They're not my kids, they're,you know, my grandchildren.
So I have to zip it sometimesand step back and think, if you
ask for my support and help andan opinion, I'll give you it.
But I'm not going to give itunless you ask for it and
because everyone's different.
You know when your kids aredifferent from you, they think
differently and what theirlifestyle and their partner is
(16:05):
different from the partner youhad.
So it's a completely differenthome life that they're living in
, that I was then what I wasliving in.
So you'd have to really sort ofvalidate them and say I can see
you're doing so well, you're anadult now, you've got your own
life, you're doing all sorts ofthings and just be there for
(16:25):
them, but be really mindful thatyou're not going to criticize
their partner or criticizeanything that they do.
I mean, what's quite funny nowis my son has taken over trying
to tell me how I should live inmy life, how I should decorate
my home, how I should do it.
It's really funny.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That is funny.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
He says, oh, I should be doing this and I should be
doing that.
And for about six years he kepton saying I want to revamp your
home.
I kept on saying no, no, no.
And then, after I think it wasnear COVID, he just said oh, one
day come on, mom.
So I went oh, for God's sake,okay, then do it.
And he went oh, I said, do itthen.
And then he took on the job ofdoing my house and then he was
cursing me.
He said oh, I hate this house.
The walls aren't straight, thisisn't straight.
(17:10):
And it was so funny and he wasdoing like a one man job as well
as working and doing his ownhouse as well.
And he took it was in thewinter months.
He took all the doors off, hadno doors, and then he took a
couple of radiators off the mainrooms where I would be sitting.
And I was off for months and itwas freezing in the winter and
(17:30):
all the heat I had was justgoing upstairs and I thought
this is crazy.
Then he decided to dismantle myairing cupboard upstairs in my
bedroom for viewing it to makinga bigger one.
But then they had a baby, sothey came first.
He came first.
So this airing cupboard had nodoors, no sides, and he took the
(17:52):
slats off.
But luckily they weredownstairs and I kept on
thinking this is crazy, becauseI need the slats to put my
sheets on and stuff, because theheat was still coming from the
you know the boiler.
So I found the slats and I putthem all up and they put the
stuff back up, but obviouslystill no sides, no door.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
And when I saw him recently he said we might have
to get someone to pay to do thatfor you.
And I just I just laughed.
I just thought eventually it'llget done.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
He had the best intentions, but I don't like
your paintings.
You need to do this.
And I said well, I like them.
You know it's just me, it's mycharacter.
It reminds me of things likeI've got one with a tree, you
know of nature and the the allton colors and the season, and
then one of mountings.
And he said I said, but youdon't see why I put those there.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That is funny.
So he sees himself trying tohelp you and you're just like go
for it, and then it's like waita minute.
That's funny Sometimes theyjust have to figure it out for
themselves, Right.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I'm sure if he could dress me, you probably would as
well.
That's funny, that's reallysweet.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
That sounds like how my youngest will probably
believe.
When she's older she sheprobably do something like that.
Tell me what to do he cared.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's his way of showing he cares.
And you know what I found?
And it's really funny, it wasonly in the last six months.
I suddenly realized I kept onthinking to myself, how well do
my children really know me?
Because they're, you know,talking to other parents over
the years and everything.
And I suddenly realized theydon't know me that well.
It's my friends who really knowme, because although I tried to
(19:32):
encourage them to get to knowme, they didn't want to.
They just want to know me astheir mum.
So that's all they see.
Mum, you know.
They don't see how mum thinksor feels, or what mum's music
tastes are or what mum likes todo.
They're oblivious to that.
And I just realized, after sortof this battle of well, I'm
(19:54):
seeing you, I'm wanting to knowabout you and your life.
Why aren't you asking me thesame?
And it was like we don't needto know any of that.
We just want to know you,you're just mum.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, mum.
So, Well it's, yeah, that'sinteresting.
You say that because with mymother, you know, she kind of
kept things in and I'm justfinding out, maybe in the past
I'm 44.
So maybe in the past, in my 30s, where but I had to start
asking questions like whathappened with this and this and
this when you know, when I wasyounger, or asking her about her
(20:26):
childhood.
And I think what happens ismoms want to protect their kids
and we don't want to throw ourissues and our things that we
have to deal with on them, andso they don't really know us, so
they don't really see us as ashumans, you know.
They just see us as mom andwith no feelings.
And how dare you and this andthat.
(20:47):
And I'm learning that I have tobe more vulnerable with my kids
so that they can see that thatother side of me, not the one
that just tells them what to doall the time.
So I've seen a different sideof my mother after just sitting
down and having these in-depthconversations where I'm asking
her questions and she's justlike I just never thought that,
(21:07):
you know, when you were little Ididn't kind of taint anything
for you.
You know, when it came to mydad because they were separate,
they were so young, they wereteenage parents and she never
spoke ill of him.
So just kind of askingquestions of what happened here
and what happened there and tosee a different side of your
parent is really you just seethem as more human.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I think what happened with me?
Because I went through adivorce.
I didn't want my children it'svery common for adults to or at
least one of the adults involvetheir children in adult
discussions which they shouldn'tbe, because they're kids, they
shouldn't be privy to any of thebad stuff that goes on.
But unfortunately they're piggyin the middle and they're used
(21:52):
as a bat and ball game againsteach other.
Especially one parent will, doyou know?
Say, do you know this, do youknow that?
And they shouldn't be doingthat.
And so I kept everything quietand I didn't say anything.
And even to this day they don'tknow what went on with their
dad, you know.
But he would use me as a weapon.
He would say stuff to my kidswhich he shouldn't have done and
(22:15):
they didn't want to getinvolved, you know.
But they were getting upset.
But they were sticking up forme because they knew what he was
saying wasn't true and theywere really getting especially
the youngest one was reallygetting victimized by it from
him.
You know, he'd treat the othertwo saying, well, you're just
like your mum.
So, for example, they'd go outfor the weekend and he wouldn't
(22:36):
be treated.
The other two would be treatedand his attitude was well,
you're just like your mum, soI'm not going to do it.
You know so really nasty things.
And it's so difficult because Iused to say to the children all
I want to know, I don't want toknow about what you've done with
your dad, I'm not interested inthat.
But all I want to know is thathe's treating you well when
(22:57):
you're there and if anything'supsetting you, if he's done
anything wrong, you have to tellme, because there's a lot of
things that you have to tell me,because then I will step in and
challenge and ask him things.
I mean, I have a great believerof boundaries and routines,
didn't have many, but enough toflow.
But he chose to make the choiceof not doing any boundaries and
routines with the kids, not tofollow them, just to get back at
(23:20):
me.
And they got very upset becauseit was an imbalance.
I mean, they were watching adultfilms when they were young, you
know, and things like that.
And I said to my elder childonce when he was in his teens
how can you watching all thisDisney stuff now?
And he said, because I wasnever allowed to watch it at dad
and it was so hard.
(23:41):
You know he's picking you allup.
He said I'm watching what Ishould have watched then at that
age, and things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Well come, I do have a few.
I knew, I know a few peoplethat are in that same boat, the
way you're describing it, wherethey're trying to be the adult
but then their ex spouse is not.
They're doing exactly whatyou're describing.
What do you say?
Because you can't control thatother person?
Like, what do you say to thesepeople if they come with that
kind of issue?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, if they can sort of put their differences
aside and if they can talk totheir other half and just say
look, I know we don't get on andI know we're not together, but
these are our children, we choseto have them and you love them,
I love them and we want thebest for them.
So on this way we have to haveharmony, we have to have balance
and understanding and go alongthat track.
(24:28):
It's great if it works, but Iwould say good 40, 50% of the
time it doesn't.
So the only thing you can do isstick to how you run your
household, how you treat yourchildren.
So, because they will come back, like mine did, and they will
come back and test the waterswith me and it was hell
(24:48):
sometimes I'd have one of themkicking off or I'd have all
three.
It was because they were makingsure that I was going to stick
around, I wasn't going to walkout the door and not come back.
It was really hard work, but Ihad to keep reassuring them and
being there for them.
That's all you can do.
I used to do things like get thecalendar and I'd mark out all
(25:12):
the holidays and all the thingsand I'd say to him right, these
are the summer, this is thesummer term, this is autumn,
whatever.
I want you to tell me now whatday or what week or a couple of
weeks do you want for theholidays?
And my mark it off as yours.
Now, we did that and I saidthen I want you to ring them up
every day and talk to them atnight when they come back, you
(25:35):
know, before they go to bed theymight want to speak to you, or
maybe one does, or maybe none ofthem does, but that's not your
choice.
To do that you have to phonethem.
Then again, see them in themiddle of the week, on a
Wednesday, and then alternateweekends.
You can have them, you know.
So what he started to try to dowith me was suddenly say to the
(25:57):
kids oh, I'm not having you thatweekend, and then try and stand
up on the doorstep of myweekend and do it, and I'd say
you're not coming in, we've gotarrangements.
But what you're telling thekids and showing the kids are,
you don't care.
But that's your relationshipwith them.
And when he realized, I thinkafter the sixth time of trying
it, that I wasn't going to bendand I was either out or he
(26:20):
wasn't.
You know, he was definitelywasn't allowed in.
It wasn't working.
He then stuck to the agreement.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So it sounds like Boundaries are number one and
just being consistent, becausekids are so smart and they're
eventually going to figure itout and you know, like you said,
they'll test you, because I dosee that with you know, within
my friend group, the ones thatare going through it that that's
exactly it and I think.
I think what happens is theyjust get so exhausted so they
(26:52):
give in and then it's like thisvicious cycle that they're never
going to get out of becausethey're not set in those
boundaries.
So I like that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
It's.
It's vital because in life wehave, we have boundaries and
routines in everything we do.
You know, call them the laws ifyou want.
They're there for a reason andwe have them in school.
The kids, you know, some ofthem do act up in school, but
most of the time the class runscomparatively well, because if
you've got 30, 35 kids in theclassroom, if they weren't
(27:22):
following the rules, my God,what chaos would be.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, since you've been doingthis for so many years, like,
what are some of the themes thatyou see, some of the same
issues that come up, that thatyou would want to tell the
listeners about?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Right.
The first thing is the parentsnot taking ownership of what's
going on for them and meetingmaking sure that they're meeting
their own needs.
That's the first thing theyhave to do.
Lots of them, rather thanlooking at what problems they
might have, they blame it on thechildren.
So you have to really, if youlike, look in the mirror, hold
(28:02):
up that magnifying glass and saywhat can I do better for myself
?
That then will impact in apositive way to the family.
You know, am I taking too muchon at work?
Have I got pressures?
Am I stressed?
Am I bringing work home?
And is that eating into myquality time with my kids?
(28:22):
Because you have to really lookat that and say OK, if you're
not being paid for that extratime, say to your boss if
they're not listening properly.
Hopefully they will just sayyou're giving me too much stuff,
so the work I was doing issuffering.
But if you take a little bitoff and let me finish my work
load I'm doing at the moment,that will get done and then you
(28:44):
can give me another lot.
And if you need to say I'vejust looked at my contract and
my contract is such and such anhour to this hour and I'm not
working weekends because I don'tand I don't work evenings.
So I'm no longer doing thisanymore because I'm sticking to
my contract and my home life isthe most important thing for my
(29:06):
children.
So you know, really, sort ofstick to your guns, like that.
And the other thing isconsistency.
If you're putting in boundaries, you have to get everybody sat
round and tell them the reasonwhy you want to put the routines
in the boundaries and getpeople in.
You know, get everyone involved.
Like, what sort of routines doyou think we need for the house?
(29:29):
You know, is it bedtime,watching television, sharing the
bathroom?
You know all sorts of things.
And you put it in a contextthat everyone understands and
then you sort of say, ok, well,if things are going well, how
can we honor this?
How can I reward you in thatone?
It's not financial reward, itcan be something really simple,
(29:50):
like we look at the end of theweek who's done what?
If you're done really well, doyou want to choose a movie we'll
watch on the Friday evening?
Or one of them might say, ok,I'll choose a movie.
Well, ok, this week you willchoose that movie.
So what would you like to getsomeone else to choose a
favorite meal that they want tohave so it's simple or an outing
(30:10):
they want to do together as afamily unit on the weekend, or
something, so lots of thingslike that and then also put in
the consequences.
If things aren't going well,what do you think we should do?
You know, and it could begrounding.
At the worst thing it could beremoving something that they
really like.
Usually the mobile phone worksfor limited times but also have
(30:32):
limited time of using the mobilephone, because too many of us,
including adults, are using it24 seven and it's not healthy
because it's stopping thatproper communication that you
should be having.
And, for example, sit round atable and have all your meals
together around a table withoutthe phone, put it on silent and
(30:54):
stick it on the corner of a worksurface All sorts of simple
things like that.
But I have 100 percent lookafter your own needs and treat
those first as adults, becauseif you can't look after yourself
, how can you look after yourchildren?
Then, be completely availablefor your children when you are
in their time and make qualitytime with each child in the
(31:17):
evening or the day or whatever,even if it's 10, 15 minutes, so
they know certain children willgo to bed earlier, so you can go
in there, you can read them astory and have quality time in
that respect.
Or a bath time Make the bathfun, bath playing, talk and
engage, so it's not just a quickdip in and a quick out.
(31:38):
And then your teens wheneveryone, the younger ones, are
out of your hair, you can havetime to talk to them, but let
them know that you'reapproachable as well that you'll
always listen to them.
So if they come over to you andwant you to listen to them and
maybe just sound out what's beengoing on, if you don't put that
(31:58):
phone down, if you don't givethem a hundred percent attention
and look at them If you'renecessary, turn the TV off and
say come on up, this is yourtime, tell me what's going on,
what can I help you with?
But you have to be there forthem to show that you're
interested in what they do.
Yeah, that's all the time.
Knowing who their friends are,knowing what they like, knowing
(32:22):
what's happening in their life.
Loads of parents don't evenknow their best friend, have no
idea where they go, when they goout, have no idea of contact
numbers and they don't check upon them, which they should do.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, what I found is that how do I wish I was
treated when I was younger.
But then sometimes we justforget.
We get caught up in ourday-to-day, like you said, with
work and the house and stuff,and then you just forget that
you were a child too once andyou have to remind yourself like
this is how I wish I wasapproached or this is, and so I
(33:00):
have to give myself pep talksevery now and then and just
remember to sit still and listento them.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And show empathy towards them and let them know I
mean the way they learn.
They watch you all the time, asI was telling you, and so you
have to be the one that showsthe right direction of how to
handle your emotions.
If you're angry, okay, it'sfine to be angry and be cross,
but you don't go around smashingyour fist in the wall.
(33:31):
You show them how, in adifferent way, you can think oh,
I'm feeling a bit frustrated,I'm gonna go for a walk and pump
that anger out, just put therecord on and just dance it out.
Do something, you know.
So you're teaching them thatit's all right to feel those
negative emotions as well asthey're happy.
And if you feel tearful, cry,as long as you don't sob and
(33:54):
break down completely on thefloor, you know.
But show them there are tearsof happiness, there are tears of
sadness, and if you show that,especially children who have
been brought up in a domesticviolence environment, they're on
tender hooks anyway.
And if the mum is keeping thattightly in and not showing any
(34:15):
form of emotion, their childcan't show that either.
So the child locks it in.
I used to do emotional abuse,domestic abuse groups for women
and also with the children andit was vital that the mum could
show that and say I'm sadbecause of this has happened and
how are you feeling.
And it gives the opportunity ofthe child to say I'm not having
(34:38):
a good day and I'm frightened,I'm whatever.
But if you don't, as an adult,show those feelings and express
certain things obviously in achild-focused way in language,
your child will keep it alllocked in.
They might say I won't say thisbecause if I mentioned daddy,
that upset mummy and it's allsorts of things like that, and
(35:02):
they love their dad most of thetime, even if things have gone
wrong, they still want theirdaddy.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
And if you can't talk about it, it's really hard for
a child.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
No, that's great advice.
I really appreciate it.
Is there anything else that youwould want to let people know
that we haven't touched on?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I think there's just, first of all, is don't compare
yourself to other people otherfamilies, neighbors, friends
because your family is differentfrom theirs, because of your
makeup and your children'smakeup, and you have to.
There's no such thing asperfect parenting and we're
(35:47):
always going to make mistakes,but it's a learning curve and
it's a 24-7 for life learningcurve.
So all you can do is, if thingshaven't worked out when you've
tried something, learn from itand try not to repeat the bad
mistakes and just keep in thepositive way you're doing and
(36:09):
give yourself a pat on the back,say I'm trying my best.
Or look at what thinking whatcan I try that's different?
That would be more beneficial.
If this didn't work, there wasalways some other solution and
if you need help, ask for help,whether it's from a specialist
or whether it's from someonelike me, or whether it's from
(36:31):
standing off with friends.
Just don't be on your own,because parenting, if you've got
kids who've gone through it,but some people who don't have
children, well, they're stillaunts and uncles to children.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
So yeah that's great and don't believe.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
When you read all these baby books again, it's
like seeing the efforts on theTV.
I've never seen an advert on atelevision where the child is
messy covered in food or themother's all be dragled because
she hasn't slept all night.
It's everyone's hunky-dory,everyone's smiling.
Oh yeah, that's not life,that's not reality.
And same with the parentingbooks.
(37:10):
If you read them through yeah,user tips, try them.
But if you actually treat itlike a Bible, like gospel, and
you think I've tried all thesethings and in this book it's
saying this should work, thisshould work, and it doesn't, you
feel like you're a failurebecause you think, well, why
hasn't it worked for me?
(37:30):
Yes but this is only someoneelse's opinion.
That's been written.
You've got to try and navigateit yourself and you know your
kids better than anybody else.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, I love that.
That's great, great, greatinput.
I thank you so much.
So you do a lot of your workthrough Zoom, I'm assuming.
Since you're all the way in theUK, when can we find you?
If anybody wants to doone-on-one with you, where can
we find you?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right.
My website islife-change-coachingcouk and in
there you can scroll down andyou can book a free exploratory
session on Zoom with me for 30minutes, just to tell me more
about what's going on and what'syour main issue that you're
(38:21):
struggling with.
Then I can tell you about whatI do, my coaching, my coaching
packages, and we'll see ifcoaching is right for you.
Most of the time it is, butsometimes it's not.
But you're under no obligationto sort of just because you've
spoken to me to join me on mypackages but I hope you do, and
(38:41):
it's just because I've had allthis knowledge and I just like
people and I don't think parentsshould feel their failures or
they can't move on, because Ibelieve everybody, whether it's
an individual or a parent, wecan all make changes within
ourselves and within oursituation to improve our
situation.
But to do that you've got to beable to step out of your
(39:05):
comfort zone, out of your badhabits, and you make small steps
first, but once you start doingthem it gets easier.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, well, thank you , kathy.
I'm gonna make sure that I putyour link in the show notes on
this episode and if there's notanything else that you wanna
share, I would love for you tocome back.
If you ever want anything elseto talk about, I love yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I would love to.
Yeah, I love return gas.
I've got lots of notes there.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, thank you so much.
You've been such a pleasure.
It's a real pleasure and Ithank you again for reaching out
, because I love talking to newpeople and getting a different
perspective, especially when itcomes to parenting.
That's a big thing for me.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yes, Well, thank you parents out there who are
listening.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Oh yeah, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Thank you so much for listening to Virago 24-7.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
button and please give us fivestar ratings.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago24-7, and
on Facebook, at Virago24-7, andjust connect with us and share
(40:14):
your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
Just give me my space to moveon, and it's my thoughts, what I
want.
What I want, what I want.
Hi, I am your host, leonette Talley, and you are
listening to Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
(00:24):
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
Hey, everyone, thanks forcoming in another week on Virago
(00:48):
24-7.
Today I have a special guest.
We haven't had a special guestin a while and she is here from
the UK, can you imagine.
She reached out and I was likeof course she's a parenting
coach and we've talked aboutparenting on this show a few
dozen times.
Everyone that listens haschildren, and I'll know that I
(01:12):
have my three kids, that I'mtrying to find ways to
communicate all stages of their.
I have all the stages.
I have elementary, well,actually, I have middle college
and high school.
So, anyways, kathy Bowers isall the way from the UK and
instead of me running down theline of who she is, I rather
(01:35):
have her introduce herself andlet us know a little bit about
you, kathy, welcome.
Hello everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
My name is Kathy Bowers, as Lunette has said.
I'm from the UK and I'm aparenting and teen coach and
I've been working with familiesand their children for over 40
years in all different areas andthe last 20 before starting my
business life change coaching.
I worked with social care andthat was going directly into the
(02:05):
family's homes to help with allparenting issues, behavioural
problems and looking at what theparents needed to do first for
themselves to be able to meetthe needs of their kids, and
it's been really interesting.
It's been a really interestingjourney I've had from the age of
16 to now the age of 70, whenI'm doing my business now, and I
(02:29):
finally feel that I've got myvocation because now my help
parents who have triedeverything but they're still
stuck.
They're having problems withcommunication and just
relationships with theirchildren and they want to find a
better way to make thingseasier for them, have an
improved relationship and tomake parenting easier.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, no, that's great and I have many friends
and we talk about parenting andwe throw ideas at each other,
but what I find is that we'rekind of mimicking how we were
raised and what was done when wewere children and realizing
that that doesn't always work.
(03:12):
So we're retraining our brainsand reading and researching and
learning how to communicate in adifferent way, and that's very
difficult.
To retrain your brain.
What is the process withparents that you guide them
through in order to kind ofswitch?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, the first thing is making sure that you look at
what's happening for you froman everyday point of view and
what maybe is impacting on howyou compare them.
Because if you've got problemsat work, if you've got mental
health issues, if you've got aphysical disability, you're in
constant pain, for example, abad back pain that can make you
(03:50):
irritable and not receptive toyour children.
So if you've got things likethat, if you've got postnatal
depression, you need to sortthat out first for yourself, to
make sure you're in a good place.
Also, to make sure that youhave quality time each day.
It doesn't matter what time ofthe day for yourself.
Start off with maybe 15 minutes.
(04:11):
It just gives you thatheadspace to clear your thoughts
, calm down and be in a betterplace for yourself.
And once you've done that, thenyou can sort of engage much
better with your children.
And then, looking at yourparenting, we've all come from
how we've been parented and somewe've had very good input and
(04:35):
we can still take that and useit, but others not necessarily
we might have been shouted at,we might have been smacked out,
and I know I was all thosethings, and you bring it along
to your parenting and you don'trealise, in a way you're sort of
repeating that pattern that youhad to your children.
And I went through it.
(04:55):
I mean I went through likesmacking my kids and screaming
at them, and I've got three,they're all adults now and I'm a
grandma of two.
But I went through all this andthen I suddenly froze and I
thought hold on a minute.
If smacking your child oncethen prevents that thing
happening again, maybe.
Okay, not justifying it, butmaybe that's it.
(05:19):
It could work.
But it doesn't, because you cansmack, you can shout, you can
scream, and it's repeated allthe time.
So all you're doing isinstilling fear, you're bullying
your kids.
You're much taller than theyare, you know, so that's the
wrong way to go about it.
So it's looking at parentingagain and regarding how we
communicate.
The first thing we give out isour body language.
(05:41):
90% is body language.
You might not understandsomeone's language.
You know what they speak to you, but you can understand their
body language, facialexpressions, again, that shows.
And then your voice, but notjust your voice, it's the tone
of your voice.
So there's lots of things likethat and it's the same when you
(06:05):
look at your children.
Lots of your children areresponding and you might think
it's in a negative way.
You think, oh, they're having ago at me, they're trying to
irritate me.
No, no, no, they're youngerthan you.
They might not have thevocabulary to tell you what
they're thinking or feeling, sothey show it in another way and
if they can't vocalise it, theyget frustrated, you know, and
(06:29):
they act out.
And again, if they've beentrying to get your attention and
you've been too busy on yourphone and not really having that
space to sit down and reallylook at them and take it all in,
they can try and get yourattention.
You're not getting it, so thenthey'll try something else, like
a youngster might come up witha toy and put it on your lap and
(06:51):
you go yeah, yeah, and you pushit away.
And then they might come backagain with that toy and whack
you.
And then your response is howdare you?
You've been really naughty.
What they've been trying to sayis I want some attention here,
but we've missed that bridge, asit were.
And then you've got otherchildren who keep on trying and
they're not getting anywhere.
So they withdraw intothemselves and you all think, oh
(07:13):
, he's such a good boy.
He never asks for anything.
You know they look how nicelyhe plays.
That's not necessarily the case.
What he's done is internalizedall his feelings and because
you're not responding you knowthat happens a lot when people
are suffering from depressionand they can't respond You're
sort of closed to yourself andyou're closed to what's going on
(07:35):
around you.
So you see lots of childrenlike that or you get the other
side of the coin where thechildren have learned they'll
only get your response andattention when they've done
something you know, really sortof hit someone or broken
something.
That's when you respond.
So they've learned the wrongway of the negative.
Let's respond badly and we'llget my mum and dad's attention.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, no, that's good .
I can totally relate to theinternalizing because that's how
I was as a child.
And then also I noticed that inmy oldest child, like she was
just always very capable anddidn't ruffle any feathers Not
really.
You know, kids are going to bekids, but for the most part and
now she's about to be 23 andthose things are coming out now
(08:23):
with the anxiety and depressionand trying to figure out who she
is.
Do you have any input on that?
Like I understand, like whenyou're little, but what if
they're already past that stage?
And quote unquote, the damagehas been done, you know, to
putting so many words.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
The main thing is not to blame yourself, because lots
of children, from the word, go,if they're in a house where
there's arguments and all sortsof things going, they
automatically feel are thearguments because I'm here, they
take it all on board.
You know, for the moment theybreak up.
Have you broken up because ofme?
(09:01):
It's so difficult becausethat's what they feel, you know.
Or they've been piggy in themiddle in the relationship and
they don't know who to pleasebecause they don't want to
choose.
They love mum, they love dadand it's so difficult.
So when you get past, when youget into later adolescence or
older, like your daughter is,and you have to accept that
(09:24):
whatever's happened to youwasn't anything to do with you,
it was out of your control.
But now you've got to look atthe scenario that, where you are
now as a person, look at howyou're achieving or, like you're
saying, are there areas of yourlife that you feel unsure?
Have you got low self-esteem?
(09:45):
And if that's the case, youneed to get help.
You need to seek help.
You know, be it either going tosomeone or you can get lots of
books or the self-help CDs thathelp you.
So there's so much out therenow that can really help you
feel more confident, build yourconfidence and put yourself in
the better place.
(10:05):
If you are able to talk to atleast one of your parents about
it, that's great, you know, butnot everyone can.
But the main issue is to reallyself-heal yourself.
You can look back and obviouslyyou're going to have a mixture
of memories, good and bad.
So keep the good ones, alwayskeep the good ones, but learn
(10:27):
from what's happened in the pastas not your fault, as the
negative things which yourparents have been going through.
And you will never know exactlywhat your parents went through
at that time, because I won'ttell you.
I know I went through depression.
I didn't realise.
I was depressed for maybe twoyears.
(10:49):
I didn't realise, but I wasresponding negatively towards my
children.
And then, when that depressionlifted, I could then look back
at the old me and think, christ,you really were.
And he was pushing the buttonsleft, right and central on you.
I mean I've become suicidal.
I've really had come down thatroute, you know, and he was.
(11:12):
He didn't want to, he didn'tcare, he didn't care what I did,
he wouldn't care if I ended itthere.
And then, as far as he wasconcerned, he was so arrogant,
you know, it was just how he was.
But the damage that I've beendoing to my kids, you know, I've
been shouting, I've beenscreaming, I've been hitting,
I've been not and not availablefor them.
And only then I came back and Ithought to myself.
(11:36):
It took a long time but Ithought I have to forgive myself
because I can't live in thepast.
What's done is done, but I haveto learn from it and try and
rebuild that relationship withmy children, which luckily I did
.
But it takes a lot because youfeel guilty after you've had the
arguments and you're shoutingand screaming and things.
(11:59):
They feel sick.
You feel sick, you know, but itwas a pattern that I was
getting myself into all the timeand I was waking up, thinking,
oh God, am I going to haveanother day like yesterday?
And so I automatically talkingabout body language.
My body language to them wasthey looked at me and they could
sit because they always observe.
(12:19):
You watch it 24, seven.
They obviously thought, huh,she thinks we're going to just
be like we did yesterday.
Well, we might as well, becausewe're not going to get any
thanks or praise here.
So it was a vicious circle.
But then I started treating eachday differently and looking at
the positives.
What was going on for my kids,what were they doing well, what
(12:42):
little things they were trying,and then actually saying to them
I've noticed you have done this, well done.
Thank you for helping me withthis.
You've been so patient, waitingfor me to finish doing this
before we could do something.
You know, and the differencewith giving praise rather than
criticism to anybody.
You see a completely differentreaction, because children want
(13:05):
to want to please you and wewould much prefer to have a
relationship that everyone's inharmony and sync, rather
thinking, oh, what's, what's thenext big argument?
Why is that coming?
So it's vital to be really opento your children and really be
available for them on a dailybasis and let them know that you
(13:29):
value them and you value theiropinions, especially as they get
older.
You know the teams include themin everything.
Say like hey, I know you'vemaybe come in the house and
you've.
You look like you've had a bitof a rough day.
If you feel like talking aboutit, I'm here for you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I like that I like erasing what happened yesterday
because, to be honest, theteenage years weren't as bad as
just now that she's an adult,kind of transitioning from from
I'm your parent, but I can'ttell you what to do and come and
just learning to come alongsideher.
(14:08):
And I've had a change how I youknow, because I was a Yeller,
you know I come from a culture,I'm Latin, from Latin America,
and so we're very passionate andwe, you know, even screaming
it's just normal in that culturelike the screaming, and then oh
and so that's, you know, that's, that's what I've seen and you
(14:28):
know it wasn't reallydetrimental to me.
But I see in my kids that itdoesn't work for them, you know
they're they're different,they're not growing up in that
same culture.
So I've had to shift how I, youknow, I respond and they're so
different, oh my gosh.
So what I can do with this one,I can't do with that one, and
so on and so forth.
So I like the treating everyday differently and giving
(14:55):
validation.
Yeah, I need to do that alittle bit more.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And so with the older children, you know, when
they're adults, like I mean, myeldest is now 43.
And then I've got one who's 37and it goes back, you know,
another three years after thatfor my daughter and they've got
their relationships.
You know, two of my sons havegot babies now and it's now a
question of you can't treat themlike you did when they were
(15:22):
little.
You have to now sort of stepback and think right, you're
doing so.
Well, listen, really listen tothem and see what they have to
say and what they're doing, anddon't step in to sort of make
corrections of how they I meanthe parenting at the moment I
sort of think some things Iwouldn't do, but that's hey, I'm
(15:44):
the grand now.
They're not my kids, they're,you know, my grandchildren.
So I have to zip it sometimesand step back and think, if you
ask for my support and help andan opinion, I'll give you it.
But I'm not going to give itunless you ask for it and
because everyone's different.
You know when your kids aredifferent from you, they think
differently and what theirlifestyle and their partner is
(16:05):
different from the partner youhad.
So it's a completely differenthome life that they're living in
, that I was then what I wasliving in.
So you'd have to really sort ofvalidate them and say I can see
you're doing so well, you're anadult now, you've got your own
life, you're doing all sorts ofthings and just be there for
(16:25):
them, but be really mindful thatyou're not going to criticize
their partner or criticizeanything that they do.
I mean, what's quite funny nowis my son has taken over trying
to tell me how I should live inmy life, how I should decorate
my home, how I should do it.
It's really funny.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
That is funny.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
He says, oh, I should be doing this and I should be
doing that.
And for about six years he kepton saying I want to revamp your
home.
I kept on saying no, no, no.
And then, after I think it wasnear COVID, he just said oh, one
day come on, mom.
So I went oh, for God's sake,okay, then do it.
And he went oh, I said, do itthen.
And then he took on the job ofdoing my house and then he was
cursing me.
He said oh, I hate this house.
The walls aren't straight, thisisn't straight.
(17:10):
And it was so funny and he wasdoing like a one man job as well
as working and doing his ownhouse as well.
And he took it was in thewinter months.
He took all the doors off, hadno doors, and then he took a
couple of radiators off the mainrooms where I would be sitting.
And I was off for months and itwas freezing in the winter and
(17:30):
all the heat I had was justgoing upstairs and I thought
this is crazy.
Then he decided to dismantle myairing cupboard upstairs in my
bedroom for viewing it to makinga bigger one.
But then they had a baby, sothey came first.
He came first.
So this airing cupboard had nodoors, no sides, and he took the
(17:52):
slats off.
But luckily they weredownstairs and I kept on
thinking this is crazy, becauseI need the slats to put my
sheets on and stuff, because theheat was still coming from the
you know the boiler.
So I found the slats and I putthem all up and they put the
stuff back up, but obviouslystill no sides, no door.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
And when I saw him recently he said we might have
to get someone to pay to do thatfor you.
And I just I just laughed.
I just thought eventually it'llget done.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
He had the best intentions, but I don't like
your paintings.
You need to do this.
And I said well, I like them.
You know it's just me, it's mycharacter.
It reminds me of things likeI've got one with a tree, you
know of nature and the the allton colors and the season, and
then one of mountings.
And he said I said, but youdon't see why I put those there.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That is funny.
So he sees himself trying tohelp you and you're just like go
for it, and then it's like waita minute.
That's funny Sometimes theyjust have to figure it out for
themselves, Right.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I'm sure if he could dress me, you probably would as
well.
That's funny, that's reallysweet.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
That sounds like how my youngest will probably
believe.
When she's older she sheprobably do something like that.
Tell me what to do he cared.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's his way of showing he cares.
And you know what I found?
And it's really funny, it wasonly in the last six months.
I suddenly realized I kept onthinking to myself, how well do
my children really know me?
Because they're, you know,talking to other parents over
the years and everything.
And I suddenly realized theydon't know me that well.
It's my friends who really knowme, because although I tried to
(19:32):
encourage them to get to knowme, they didn't want to.
They just want to know me astheir mum.
So that's all they see.
Mum, you know.
They don't see how mum thinksor feels, or what mum's music
tastes are or what mum likes todo.
They're oblivious to that.
And I just realized, after sortof this battle of well, I'm
(19:54):
seeing you, I'm wanting to knowabout you and your life.
Why aren't you asking me thesame?
And it was like we don't needto know any of that.
We just want to know you,you're just mum.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, mum.
So, Well it's, yeah, that'sinteresting.
You say that because with mymother, you know, she kind of
kept things in and I'm justfinding out, maybe in the past
I'm 44.
So maybe in the past, in my 30s, where but I had to start
asking questions like whathappened with this and this and
this when you know, when I wasyounger, or asking her about her
(20:26):
childhood.
And I think what happens ismoms want to protect their kids
and we don't want to throw ourissues and our things that we
have to deal with on them, andso they don't really know us, so
they don't really see us as ashumans, you know.
They just see us as mom andwith no feelings.
And how dare you and this andthat.
(20:47):
And I'm learning that I have tobe more vulnerable with my kids
so that they can see that thatother side of me, not the one
that just tells them what to doall the time.
So I've seen a different sideof my mother after just sitting
down and having these in-depthconversations where I'm asking
her questions and she's justlike I just never thought that,
(21:07):
you know, when you were little Ididn't kind of taint anything
for you.
You know, when it came to mydad because they were separate,
they were so young, they wereteenage parents and she never
spoke ill of him.
So just kind of askingquestions of what happened here
and what happened there and tosee a different side of your
parent is really you just seethem as more human.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I think what happened with me?
Because I went through adivorce.
I didn't want my children it'svery common for adults to or at
least one of the adults involvetheir children in adult
discussions which they shouldn'tbe, because they're kids, they
shouldn't be privy to any of thebad stuff that goes on.
But unfortunately they're piggyin the middle and they're used
(21:52):
as a bat and ball game againsteach other.
Especially one parent will, doyou know?
Say, do you know this, do youknow that?
And they shouldn't be doingthat.
And so I kept everything quietand I didn't say anything.
And even to this day they don'tknow what went on with their
dad, you know.
But he would use me as a weapon.
He would say stuff to my kidswhich he shouldn't have done and
(22:15):
they didn't want to getinvolved, you know.
But they were getting upset.
But they were sticking up forme because they knew what he was
saying wasn't true and theywere really getting especially
the youngest one was reallygetting victimized by it from
him.
You know, he'd treat the othertwo saying, well, you're just
like your mum.
So, for example, they'd go outfor the weekend and he wouldn't
(22:36):
be treated.
The other two would be treatedand his attitude was well,
you're just like your mum, soI'm not going to do it.
You know so really nasty things.
And it's so difficult because Iused to say to the children all
I want to know, I don't want toknow about what you've done with
your dad, I'm not interested inthat.
But all I want to know is thathe's treating you well when
(22:57):
you're there and if anything'supsetting you, if he's done
anything wrong, you have to tellme, because there's a lot of
things that you have to tell me,because then I will step in and
challenge and ask him things.
I mean, I have a great believerof boundaries and routines,
didn't have many, but enough toflow.
But he chose to make the choiceof not doing any boundaries and
routines with the kids, not tofollow them, just to get back at
(23:20):
me.
And they got very upset becauseit was an imbalance.
I mean, they were watching adultfilms when they were young, you
know, and things like that.
And I said to my elder childonce when he was in his teens
how can you watching all thisDisney stuff now?
And he said, because I wasnever allowed to watch it at dad
and it was so hard.
(23:41):
You know he's picking you allup.
He said I'm watching what Ishould have watched then at that
age, and things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Well come, I do have a few.
I knew, I know a few peoplethat are in that same boat, the
way you're describing it, wherethey're trying to be the adult
but then their ex spouse is not.
They're doing exactly whatyou're describing.
What do you say?
Because you can't control thatother person?
Like, what do you say to thesepeople if they come with that
kind of issue?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, if they can sort of put their differences
aside and if they can talk totheir other half and just say
look, I know we don't get on andI know we're not together, but
these are our children, we choseto have them and you love them,
I love them and we want thebest for them.
So on this way we have to haveharmony, we have to have balance
and understanding and go alongthat track.
(24:28):
It's great if it works, but Iwould say good 40, 50% of the
time it doesn't.
So the only thing you can do isstick to how you run your
household, how you treat yourchildren.
So, because they will come back, like mine did, and they will
come back and test the waterswith me and it was hell
(24:48):
sometimes I'd have one of themkicking off or I'd have all
three.
It was because they were makingsure that I was going to stick
around, I wasn't going to walkout the door and not come back.
It was really hard work, but Ihad to keep reassuring them and
being there for them.
That's all you can do.
I used to do things like get thecalendar and I'd mark out all
(25:12):
the holidays and all the thingsand I'd say to him right, these
are the summer, this is thesummer term, this is autumn,
whatever.
I want you to tell me now whatday or what week or a couple of
weeks do you want for theholidays?
And my mark it off as yours.
Now, we did that and I saidthen I want you to ring them up
every day and talk to them atnight when they come back, you
(25:35):
know, before they go to bed theymight want to speak to you, or
maybe one does, or maybe none ofthem does, but that's not your
choice.
To do that you have to phonethem.
Then again, see them in themiddle of the week, on a
Wednesday, and then alternateweekends.
You can have them, you know.
So what he started to try to dowith me was suddenly say to the
(25:57):
kids oh, I'm not having you thatweekend, and then try and stand
up on the doorstep of myweekend and do it, and I'd say
you're not coming in, we've gotarrangements.
But what you're telling thekids and showing the kids are,
you don't care.
But that's your relationshipwith them.
And when he realized, I thinkafter the sixth time of trying
it, that I wasn't going to bendand I was either out or he
(26:20):
wasn't.
You know, he was definitelywasn't allowed in.
It wasn't working.
He then stuck to the agreement.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
So it sounds like Boundaries are number one and
just being consistent, becausekids are so smart and they're
eventually going to figure itout and you know, like you said,
they'll test you, because I dosee that with you know, within
my friend group, the ones thatare going through it that that's
exactly it and I think.
I think what happens is theyjust get so exhausted so they
(26:52):
give in and then it's like thisvicious cycle that they're never
going to get out of becausethey're not set in those
boundaries.
So I like that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
It's.
It's vital because in life wehave, we have boundaries and
routines in everything we do.
You know, call them the laws ifyou want.
They're there for a reason andwe have them in school.
The kids, you know, some ofthem do act up in school, but
most of the time the class runscomparatively well, because if
you've got 30, 35 kids in theclassroom, if they weren't
(27:22):
following the rules, my God,what chaos would be.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, since you've been doingthis for so many years, like,
what are some of the themes thatyou see, some of the same
issues that come up, that thatyou would want to tell the
listeners about?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Right.
The first thing is the parentsnot taking ownership of what's
going on for them and meetingmaking sure that they're meeting
their own needs.
That's the first thing theyhave to do.
Lots of them, rather thanlooking at what problems they
might have, they blame it on thechildren.
So you have to really, if youlike, look in the mirror, hold
(28:02):
up that magnifying glass and saywhat can I do better for myself
?
That then will impact in apositive way to the family.
You know, am I taking too muchon at work?
Have I got pressures?
Am I stressed?
Am I bringing work home?
And is that eating into myquality time with my kids?
(28:22):
Because you have to really lookat that and say OK, if you're
not being paid for that extratime, say to your boss if
they're not listening properly.
Hopefully they will just sayyou're giving me too much stuff,
so the work I was doing issuffering.
But if you take a little bitoff and let me finish my work
load I'm doing at the moment,that will get done and then you
(28:44):
can give me another lot.
And if you need to say I'vejust looked at my contract and
my contract is such and such anhour to this hour and I'm not
working weekends because I don'tand I don't work evenings.
So I'm no longer doing thisanymore because I'm sticking to
my contract and my home life isthe most important thing for my
(29:06):
children.
So you know, really, sort ofstick to your guns, like that.
And the other thing isconsistency.
If you're putting in boundaries, you have to get everybody sat
round and tell them the reasonwhy you want to put the routines
in the boundaries and getpeople in.
You know, get everyone involved.
Like, what sort of routines doyou think we need for the house?
(29:29):
You know, is it bedtime,watching television, sharing the
bathroom?
You know all sorts of things.
And you put it in a contextthat everyone understands and
then you sort of say, ok, well,if things are going well, how
can we honor this?
How can I reward you in thatone?
It's not financial reward, itcan be something really simple,
(29:50):
like we look at the end of theweek who's done what?
If you're done really well, doyou want to choose a movie we'll
watch on the Friday evening?
Or one of them might say, ok,I'll choose a movie.
Well, ok, this week you willchoose that movie.
So what would you like to getsomeone else to choose a
favorite meal that they want tohave so it's simple or an outing
(30:10):
they want to do together as afamily unit on the weekend, or
something, so lots of thingslike that and then also put in
the consequences.
If things aren't going well,what do you think we should do?
You know, and it could begrounding.
At the worst thing it could beremoving something that they
really like.
Usually the mobile phone worksfor limited times but also have
(30:32):
limited time of using the mobilephone, because too many of us,
including adults, are using it24 seven and it's not healthy
because it's stopping thatproper communication that you
should be having.
And, for example, sit round atable and have all your meals
together around a table withoutthe phone, put it on silent and
(30:54):
stick it on the corner of a worksurface All sorts of simple
things like that.
But I have 100 percent lookafter your own needs and treat
those first as adults, becauseif you can't look after yourself
, how can you look after yourchildren?
Then, be completely availablefor your children when you are
in their time and make qualitytime with each child in the
(31:17):
evening or the day or whatever,even if it's 10, 15 minutes, so
they know certain children willgo to bed earlier, so you can go
in there, you can read them astory and have quality time in
that respect.
Or a bath time Make the bathfun, bath playing, talk and
engage, so it's not just a quickdip in and a quick out.
(31:38):
And then your teens wheneveryone, the younger ones, are
out of your hair, you can havetime to talk to them, but let
them know that you'reapproachable as well that you'll
always listen to them.
So if they come over to you andwant you to listen to them and
maybe just sound out what's beengoing on, if you don't put that
(31:58):
phone down, if you don't givethem a hundred percent attention
and look at them If you'renecessary, turn the TV off and
say come on up, this is yourtime, tell me what's going on,
what can I help you with?
But you have to be there forthem to show that you're
interested in what they do.
Yeah, that's all the time.
Knowing who their friends are,knowing what they like, knowing
(32:22):
what's happening in their life.
Loads of parents don't evenknow their best friend, have no
idea where they go, when they goout, have no idea of contact
numbers and they don't check upon them, which they should do.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, what I found is that how do I wish I was
treated when I was younger.
But then sometimes we justforget.
We get caught up in ourday-to-day, like you said, with
work and the house and stuff,and then you just forget that
you were a child too once andyou have to remind yourself like
this is how I wish I wasapproached or this is, and so I
(33:00):
have to give myself pep talksevery now and then and just
remember to sit still and listento them.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And show empathy towards them and let them know I
mean the way they learn.
They watch you all the time, asI was telling you, and so you
have to be the one that showsthe right direction of how to
handle your emotions.
If you're angry, okay, it'sfine to be angry and be cross,
but you don't go around smashingyour fist in the wall.
(33:31):
You show them how, in adifferent way, you can think oh,
I'm feeling a bit frustrated,I'm gonna go for a walk and pump
that anger out, just put therecord on and just dance it out.
Do something, you know.
So you're teaching them thatit's all right to feel those
negative emotions as well asthey're happy.
And if you feel tearful, cry,as long as you don't sob and
(33:54):
break down completely on thefloor, you know.
But show them there are tearsof happiness, there are tears of
sadness, and if you show that,especially children who have
been brought up in a domesticviolence environment, they're on
tender hooks anyway.
And if the mum is keeping thattightly in and not showing any
(34:15):
form of emotion, their childcan't show that either.
So the child locks it in.
I used to do emotional abuse,domestic abuse groups for women
and also with the children andit was vital that the mum could
show that and say I'm sadbecause of this has happened and
how are you feeling.
And it gives the opportunity ofthe child to say I'm not having
(34:38):
a good day and I'm frightened,I'm whatever.
But if you don't, as an adult,show those feelings and express
certain things obviously in achild-focused way in language,
your child will keep it alllocked in.
They might say I won't say thisbecause if I mentioned daddy,
that upset mummy and it's allsorts of things like that, and
(35:02):
they love their dad most of thetime, even if things have gone
wrong, they still want theirdaddy.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
And if you can't talk about it, it's really hard for
a child.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
No, that's great advice.
I really appreciate it.
Is there anything else that youwould want to let people know
that we haven't touched on?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I think there's just, first of all, is don't compare
yourself to other people otherfamilies, neighbors, friends
because your family is differentfrom theirs, because of your
makeup and your children'smakeup, and you have to.
There's no such thing asperfect parenting and we're
(35:47):
always going to make mistakes,but it's a learning curve and
it's a 24-7 for life learningcurve.
So all you can do is, if thingshaven't worked out when you've
tried something, learn from itand try not to repeat the bad
mistakes and just keep in thepositive way you're doing and
(36:09):
give yourself a pat on the back,say I'm trying my best.
Or look at what thinking whatcan I try that's different?
That would be more beneficial.
If this didn't work, there wasalways some other solution and
if you need help, ask for help,whether it's from a specialist
or whether it's from someonelike me, or whether it's from
(36:31):
standing off with friends.
Just don't be on your own,because parenting, if you've got
kids who've gone through it,but some people who don't have
children, well, they're stillaunts and uncles to children.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
So yeah that's great and don't believe.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
When you read all these baby books again, it's
like seeing the efforts on theTV.
I've never seen an advert on atelevision where the child is
messy covered in food or themother's all be dragled because
she hasn't slept all night.
It's everyone's hunky-dory,everyone's smiling.
Oh yeah, that's not life,that's not reality.
And same with the parentingbooks.
(37:10):
If you read them through yeah,user tips, try them.
But if you actually treat itlike a Bible, like gospel, and
you think I've tried all thesethings and in this book it's
saying this should work, thisshould work, and it doesn't, you
feel like you're a failurebecause you think, well, why
hasn't it worked for me?
(37:30):
Yes but this is only someoneelse's opinion.
That's been written.
You've got to try and navigateit yourself and you know your
kids better than anybody else.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, I love that.
That's great, great, greatinput.
I thank you so much.
So you do a lot of your workthrough Zoom, I'm assuming.
Since you're all the way in theUK, when can we find you?
If anybody wants to doone-on-one with you, where can
we find you?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Right.
My website islife-change-coachingcouk and in
there you can scroll down andyou can book a free exploratory
session on Zoom with me for 30minutes, just to tell me more
about what's going on and what'syour main issue that you're
(38:21):
struggling with.
Then I can tell you about whatI do, my coaching, my coaching
packages, and we'll see ifcoaching is right for you.
Most of the time it is, butsometimes it's not.
But you're under no obligationto sort of just because you've
spoken to me to join me on mypackages but I hope you do, and
(38:41):
it's just because I've had allthis knowledge and I just like
people and I don't think parentsshould feel their failures or
they can't move on, because Ibelieve everybody, whether it's
an individual or a parent, wecan all make changes within
ourselves and within oursituation to improve our
situation.
But to do that you've got to beable to step out of your
(39:05):
comfort zone, out of your badhabits, and you make small steps
first, but once you start doingthem it gets easier.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, well, thank you , kathy.
I'm gonna make sure that I putyour link in the show notes on
this episode and if there's notanything else that you wanna
share, I would love for you tocome back.
If you ever want anything elseto talk about, I love yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
I would love to.
Yeah, I love return gas.
I've got lots of notes there.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, thank you so much.
You've been such a pleasure.
It's a real pleasure and Ithank you again for reaching out
, because I love talking to newpeople and getting a different
perspective, especially when itcomes to parenting.
That's a big thing for me.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yes, Well, thank you parents out there who are
listening.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Oh yeah, thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Thank you so much for listening to Virago 24-7.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
button and please give us fivestar ratings.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago24-7, and
on Facebook, at Virago24-7, andjust connect with us and share
(40:14):
your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
Just give me my space to moveon, and it's my thoughts, what I
want.
What I want, what I want.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.