October 11, 2023 • 60 mins
What happens when you combine personal experiences, insightful discussions, and the intricate dynamics of gender roles and relationships? You get a profound exploration of the challenges that men face in expressing their inherent qualities, and the beauty and worth that women need to realize. Join me, Lyanette Talley, and my guest, Philip Talley, as we draw insights from John Eldridge's enlightening book, "Wild at Heart: Discovering the Secret of a Man's Soul."
As we navigate through this stimulating conversation, we tackle the complexities of marriage, the danger of complacency, and the importance of effort in nurturing relationships. Philip's candid account of his personal experiences and the role his father played in shaping his outlook gives our discussion a raw and relatable edge. We also delve into the societal norms that govern gender roles, the intriguing concept of men being a 'dangerous thing', the importance of open communication, and the need for consistency in maintaining a balanced relationship.
This episode will not only provide you with a fresh perspective on gender roles and relationships, but also inspire you to grow and learn alongside your partner, while understanding and validating each other's needs.
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Everyday growth, everyday healing with everyday warriors!
Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I am your host, Lyanette Talley, and you are
listening to Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
(00:24):
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
Hey, everybody hope everyone'sdoing well.
(00:47):
I'm here today with PhilippeTalley, aka Philip Talley, or
Philip Talley aka PhilippeTalley, I don't know which one
would you prefer?
I like Philip.
Okay, I'm still going to callyou Philippe.
I think I call you Philippe,maybe two, three, four, five,
(01:11):
six times a day.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Probably.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So, anyways, hello everyone.
We are gathered here today, meand Philip.
Philip is a part of a men'sgroup at church, and he's been a
part of it for I don't know howlong, but a long time, maybe 10
years.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I think 10 years.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And so they read books and they discuss them and
all the things and they do.
What men normally don't do isshare feelings, emotions,
thoughts, ideas.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So it's good.
He read this book a few yearsago called Wild at Heart
Discovering the Secret of aMan's Soul by John Eldridge.
So I know this is a woman'spodcast Virago, female Warrior.
However, men have a part in ourlives as women.
(02:17):
Whether we're married, whetherwe have a boyfriend, whether we
have a son, whether we have afather, whether we have a
grandfather, an uncle, a goodguy, friend, men are in our
lives and so it might sound likeI'm bringing male topics to
(02:39):
this podcast.
However, I feel like it allpertains to us as women and
things that we can learn from.
So Philip read this book withthis men's group a few years ago
.
They're rereading it becausethey have new people in the
group and they thought that thiswould be something that they
could talk about again andreread and those that have read
(03:01):
it can kind of impart theirknowledge about past discussions
on the book.
So I'm going to read the cover,or the back cover, of what the
book, like the theme, is aboutand then I'm going to let Philip
take it over.
But on the back it says everyman was once a boy and every
(03:24):
little boy has dreams, bigdreams, dreams of being the hero
, of beating the bad guys, ofdoing daring feats and rescuing
the damsel in distress.
Every little girl has dreamstoo of being rescued by her
prince and swept up into a greatadventure, knowing that she is
(03:47):
the beauty.
What happens to those dreamswhen we grow up?
Walk into most churches, have alook around and ask yourself
what is a Christian man Withoutlistening to what is said?
Look at what you find there.
Most Christian men are dot dotdot, bored In Wild at Heart.
(04:11):
John Eldridge invites men todiscover their masculine heart,
defined in an image of apassionate God, and he invites
women to discover the secret ofa man's soul and to delight in
the strength and wildness menwere created to offer.
So we're not going to discussthe whole book, we are
(04:33):
discussing chapter five.
Chapter five is titled theBattle for a Man's Heart.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So, philippe, so just like Leonette said, this book I
think we were at about tenyears ago in our men's group and
, unlike, I think, most men'sgroups, we actually dig deep and
we actually share, and I thinkthat's what makes us so close,
(05:04):
because it's not a group of guysthat we would pick to hang out
with if it was on our own, butour fearless leader, brian, who
has since passed away, broughtus all together so we felt like
as an under him we wouldcontinue to men's group and we
(05:27):
chose to reread this bookbecause it really resonated with
a lot of us and we have so manynew members, so we thought it
would be a good book to rereadand for others to read for the
first time.
And it challenges a lot ofthings when it comes to a man
(05:49):
and a man's heart, and I thinkone of the biggest things that
it says is you know, god gave useyes so that we might see.
He gave us ears that we mighthear.
He gave us wheels that we mightchoose and he gave us hearts
that we might live.
The way we handle the heart iseverything, and a man must know
he is powerful, he must know hehas what it takes, and a woman
(06:14):
must know she is beautiful andshe must know she is worth
fighting for.
But one of the things that hedoes talk about leading up to
this chapter is the wound that aman gets, and this wound is
(06:34):
something that at times becomespretty deep and a lot of times
it's rarely discussed.
And it's a wound that a mancarries most men carry, and the
wound is nearly always given byhis father, and that's usually
the deepest wound and that's theone that hurts the most, lasts
(06:57):
the longest, and you know.
A lot of that comes back to thefact that you know, as a boy,
you want to know that you havewhat it takes, you want to know
that you're powerful.
And he starts off this one storyto begin the chapter talking
about his son who's going tofirst grade and he's 11th grade.
(07:21):
He's having a great time.
Every night at dinner he'stelling them about all his
adventures of the day, how muchfun he's having about his number
two pencils and his Crayolas,and he heard about, you know,
the new teacher and how theyplay at recess and you know all
these things, and he would dothat every single day.
But one day he came home and hedidn't want to talk.
(07:43):
Finally, the story came out ofbully.
I had pushed him down in theplayground in front of all his
friends and his first grader wascrying when he was telling the
story back to his father and hismother.
And so the father at thatmoment said to him he told his
(08:06):
son, look at me.
I want you to listen very closeto what I'm about to say.
This is what he was saying tohis son.
The next time that bully pushesyou down, here's what I want
you to do.
I want you to get up.
I want you to hit him as hardas you possibly can.
The little boy was shocked, buthe was delighted, he was happy,
(08:33):
and I'm sure some people, somemothers, was like why did you
give him that advice and why washe so delighted by it and why
are some of you delighted by it?
Well, a boy is wild at heartand the thing about that is, I
was given that same advice frommy father, so I get it.
(08:55):
It makes sense to me as a boyyou don't let anyone bully you,
you don't let anyone hit you and, as my father told me, if
someone hits you you have to hitthem back, and that's just the
rules, and I'm sure thatprobably didn't happen with
women or girls when they wereraised, but with boys.
(09:19):
You have to give them thatfreedom.
You have to let them know youknow you're not telling them to
go around and be a bully or pickfights, but you can't let
someone hit you and then youjust walk away and you go tell
the teacher.
That just doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
(09:40):
And I mean I know that'sprobably not PC, but it's true.
And this book goes on to saythat you cannot teach a boy to
use the strength by strippingthem of it.
And I think that's 100 percent.
Because if we do do that, weemasculate them and from that
(10:03):
point on he'll end up beingpassive and fearful.
He'll grow up never knowing howto stand his ground, never
knowing if he's a man indeed,and he may look moral, like it
says in the book, he may looklike turning the other cheek,
but you can only turn a cheekyou don't.
You cannot turn a cheek youdon't have.
(10:26):
And you know, we're taught that.
We taught that in churches,we're talking that in the Bible
turn the other cheek.
And it's not that you can't dothat in certain situations, but
I just feel like you can't dothat throughout life, especially
when you're a boy and you'regrowing and you're kind of
(10:48):
testing your own strength andtesting your own freedoms and
extension of who you are.
So when we're transitioningfrom boys to men, we need to
know what those limits are.
(11:10):
And I'm not talking about takingthings to an extreme, and when
this book was written, I thinkthis was well before Columbine,
when that happened in Colorado,and so this was in a new
addition to the book in which headded some things and some
chapters to talk about somemodern day things that were
(11:33):
happening.
And he brought that example upand it came to how the boys were
labeled in that incident and itnot just, it just basically
became a blanket statement aboutboys in general and that this
(11:55):
is the boys in little town, orthe tip of the iceberg, it says
in the book, and the iceberg isall boys and the idea widely
held in our culture is thataggressive nature of boys is
inherently bad and we have tomake them into something more
like girls.
And it goes on to say thatBecause of that and it's a noble
(12:22):
goal, you know, when you're inschool To getting boys to sit
down, to sit still, to be quietto pay attention, but for an
entire day.
It's just not something that'sI don't think it's realistic
because that's not how boyswired.
And you know I remember when wewere growing up in school, you
(12:43):
know we used to have a recessand PE, so we had breaks, and
nowadays kids don't hardly getthat.
I mean, they get a little bitof that, but Avoid needs that
more than anything.
And I agree with this, as in abook that you know, we're
changing the way we do maleeducation Instead of changing
(13:05):
that way actually let me correctmyself rather than changing the
way we do male education, wetry to change males and in that
way we're we're Taking away thatnatural instinct of a boy and
we're trying to push it down andhave a model, something that
(13:27):
he's not and that really, overtime, it takes away his true
self.
So that's just one of thethings that that came up to me
in the first part of thischapter, which it really spoke
to me, especially the first partwhen he was telling his son
(13:48):
because I had the sameconversation with Khalil you
know someone hits you, you gothit him back and you know my
whole thing in school was wasthat my brother's taught me that
, my father taught me that.
But it's not more of just.
You got to be violent, you gotto fight someone.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You got to look for a fight Some more, so that you
know you defend yourself,exactly, exactly so I know you
guys haven't touched on thischapter yet in the book, but
obviously you've read one, twoand three and four has there and
and we're gonna get to someother things that apply to us
women.
So I'm just letting Philip kindof laid the groundwork for what
(14:31):
the book is about and what it'stalking about, with, you know,
boys and men having thisinherent characteristics within
them that I feel like nowadaysare, are being stifled, and so
is there any pushback onanything that you guys have read
, like in your guys's discussion?
You don't have to like divulge,like top secrets or anything
(14:53):
like that, but are you guys allin agreement of what the book is
saying so far or are youdebating, like what is some of
the things that you guys havetalked about without you know
calling anybody out?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
you know, I think when I felt the same way when I
first read the book, a while atheart, because it's not about
Going out and getting in natureand hunting and jumping from
skydiving and jumping off acliff, and you know he does talk
about having an adventure andthat you know at heart will we
(15:30):
want an adventure as men.
But it's more so because he'seven describes himself.
He's not, that's not him, he'snot that type of person himself.
So you know he's not the typeof person that's going to be.
You know, hunting and going outand drinking beers and Doing so
(15:55):
it's not like the stereotypicallike what you imagine To be so.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
There's there's qualities that men have.
You guys are all very different.
You have different likes anddislikes but, there's something
like within you all that Needsto come out yes, without someone
telling you that that's not theright thing to be or that's the
wrong way to be.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, okay and you know, there's just fundamental
things as boys, you know, boysare a little bit more more
rambunctious, aggressive, a lotmore energetic.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And I mean there's a reason for that yeah and even
you know Khalil is, is a verymore People would consider him
more like calm natured orpassive or you know whatever,
like he's not jumping off Roofand stuff like that.
However, there's times wherehe's like he needs to let that
aggression out.
He's even told me I just wantto punch something, just want to
(16:51):
hit something.
I'm like, dude, go outside andjust start running or like, are
you making run hills or notmaking?
But you suggest, hey, run hills, put these weights on your legs
, and so there's, there's ways.
Even the most passive kid needsto let out some kind of emotion
or some kind of yes, yeah, evenif they're not Outwardly, just
(17:13):
in your face about it.
Internally maybe they'reinternalizing, maybe because
they feel like they can't or notallowed to express those
emotions.
But there's, I feel, ways to doit in a safe way.
100%.
Go run around the house.
I tell them I just go runaround the house.
I'm like maybe I'll buy you alittle punching bag.
You can just start punching thecrap out of it, right?
So okay.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So you know, it's just one of those things because
he always talks about you knowwhen it comes to you know
because right now he goes backto how, now how they're always
everyone's getting diagnosedwith ADD and that would describe
in Ritalin for every littlesituation.
But he's saying in the book andI don't know how true it is but
(17:57):
makes sense, the use of thesedrugs is so disproportionately,
disproportionately among boys.
It's more prescribed for boysthan it is for girls and it
almost seems like really the owndisease they have is being male
, because Sometimes it doesn'tmean it.
(18:18):
I mean, they're obviously acase that do have ADD and they
do need some type of regulationwhen it comes to the chemical
imbalance or things of thatnature, that they need something
prescribed.
But I think we over Prescribesand we do that all the time with
antibiotics, with other drugsor things, medicines, and he
(18:42):
pointed that out.
When it comes to boys it justsometimes Just rambunctious and
energetic and doesn'tnecessarily mean and they don't
learn the same.
You know, and I'm not trying toput a blanket statement around
everyone, but it's just a thingthat we need to be careful about
when it comes to when we'reraising a boys, and I mean you
(19:02):
and I talked about this earliera boy needs Some type of man in
his life.
So, if it's not, his father,grandfather, uncle, somebody
that he needs to model and showand also show Limitations,
(19:25):
because you can't give intoevery emotion that you have and
show some kind of self-controland the boy needs to see that
model around him.
But and it has to be modeledwith another male though.
I truly, truly believe that andyou know, I'd, luckily, growing
up sometimes just very naive ata very strong role model in my
(19:50):
life, which is my father, and Ifelt that he was a great example
of a man and a father, and hewasn't the most athletic and he
wasn't the one that Did allthese crazy adventures and
things of that nature, but he,to me he seemed to be the, he
(20:11):
modeled what a man should be inevery aspect of my life, and Not
until I was, that's three yearsago.
Mm-hmm that those of you wholisten to the show I I had a
surreal moment when I found outmy father wasn't everything I
thought he was and you know hewas unfaithful to my mother.
(20:34):
He had two other children andit was.
It was.
It was hard to deal with.
It was kind of a shock and itseemed like everything that I
thought my father was was wasnot as much as I thought it he
(20:57):
was when it came to whatpedestal I put him on.
But I will say he at leastmodeled it.
He probably didn't do what hesaid and luckily I didn't know
what he did, because if I hadfound that out earlier in my
life, I doubt very seriously I'dbe the man I am now.
(21:18):
To be honest, because thatwould have rocked my whole world
.
I was very naive into thinkingthat he was at this level or
this pedestal in life as a man,as a father, and I wanted to
model myself behind him in a lotof ways.
So I think I had a reallystrong foundation when it come
(21:42):
to following my heart andfeeling I was man enough and
things of that nature.
But I can see very easily howthat could have changed under
circumstances, because I didn'thave that wound from my father,
but that type of news, if I hadgotten it earlier in my life,
especially in a very young age,that would have been devastating
(22:04):
.
So even on that I want to thankKeith for not kind of just
blowing us up as when he couldhave.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Who's Keith?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
for those who haven't heard he's my brother, who we
just met three years ago, andhe's amazing, great person,
great man, awesome father,husband.
Yeah, every time I spent timewith Keith I learned something
(22:33):
and it's been awesome to get toknow him as my brother.
And he could have, because he'solder than I am I was going to
say a lot older, but he's olderthan I am and when he could have
, when he was driving from StLouis to Little Rock, he could
have very easily just stepped onour doorstep and knocked on the
(22:54):
door and blown up this wholeprocess that I was living.
And he chose not to, and I wantto thank him for that, because I
definitely would not be theperson I am now if he had.
And reading this book lets mesee the impact that a father has
(23:16):
, or a man has, on a young man'slife and how you can shape him
and grow him and nurture him, oryou can give a wound to him in
his heart that he will beforever chasing.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So okay, so you've laid down, basically the
foundation of what the book isabout, that men have, you know,
have this thing inside them,this fire that needs to be
nourished in a healthy way.
Since we have a lot of womenlisteners, I want to start
talking about how it applies tous, because I read the chapter
(23:54):
and I there was like a fewthings that just like bam like
stood out to me, because ittalks about Christian men and
how he basically these are notmy words that they are weak and
they stand down and that theyaren't stepping up the way they
(24:16):
should, and there's a few thingsthat I wrote down that applies
to women and marriage and themen, and so I want to talk more
about that.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So one of the things when he talks about marriage and
he talks about, you know, theemasculation of a man from
boyhood or the wound his fathergives him, which could be very
emasculating depending on whatthe father says to the boy on a
consistent basis or that onetime they may devastate him.
He said it all also happens inmarriage.
(24:47):
And you know women, he said.
Women are often attracted tothe wild side of a man.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Oh yeah, I wrote that down, this, this yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But once having caught him, they settled down to
the task of domesticating him.
Ironically, if he gives in,he'll resent her for it, and
then she in turn will wonderwhere the passion has gone.
I mean, we hear about that allthe time, and then it says most
marriages wind up there.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I wrote that down because I was like, wow, that's
what do you feel?
How do you feel about thatstatement?
And obviously you're a man, soyou're going to be like rah, rah
, rah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Men power.
Well, this is what I feel.
I think that it happens.
I mean, it doesn't happen allthe time.
It's not something happens 90%of the time.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I think.
I think it's higher percentagethan you would realize.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
But it happens more than 50% of the time.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I'm team woman.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
But I feel like women do that.
And I think that they also dothat to their boys, and it's a
natural, natural instinct for amother to want to protect their
children and baby the little boy.
(26:09):
And he's always going to betheir little boy, but there
comes a time that the father hasto step in and show him a
little bit of different side ofcaring and loving.
It's going to be a little bitmore firm.
It's going to be let him havesome a little bit more
(26:31):
adventures than the mom would do, like we talked about earlier
with my mother.
If it was up to my mother, Iwould have never played sports,
because you get hit, you gethurt, and so if I could have
done anything, I would have juststayed and played the cello all
the time.
And gone to the opera, gone tothe opera and Alvin Haley
(26:54):
dancers the ballet, which was, Ithink, for me it was a nice
balance, but for my father hewas okay with me playing sports.
So I did play sports.
But back to marriage.
I think it happens and it'sunfortunate, and sometimes guys
(27:15):
don't know why or how ithappened, because you know
you're getting married, you'renot trying to chase the woman
anymore, you're not trying towoo her, you're not trying to
date her.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, why not?
Why do you guys stop doing that?
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think and I've been guilty of doing that at times I
think you just get settled in aroutine.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Well, what happens is like a woman.
When that stops, is like okay.
So no wonder you guys getemasculated or things don't work
out in your favor Like theywere in the beginning, because
you stopped pursuing us.
So then we're like, okay, well,what the heck?
Okay, well then, I won't putyou up in this high-emanded
(27:57):
pedestal that you once were on.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So it's like whatever you don't want to take care of
me, so I don't want to take careof you in that way.
It's a vicious cycle and itdoesn't correct itself.
It just gets worse, and it'ssomething that you know.
Other things come out of it andother problems, and men start
pursuing pornography, or thewomen are both, because now
(28:24):
that's the adventure, that's thebeauty that they're looking out
for.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's what validates them.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Or searching for yeah .
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It said something in there about.
You know, when men date youngerwomen, it's like because
they're not a challenge, becausethey don't have the wisdom that
someone their age has.
And so you know she's lookingat you like, wow, look at this
manly man.
Okay, that sucks that.
You guys do that.
However, that's the mentalitybehind it.
(28:52):
Let's go for the younger womanwho can validate my ego and
caress that.
But what can we do in marriage?
Why do we just Like?
How can we make it so that youguys don't do that?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I think it has to go both ways, in the sense that you
know you always have to bepursued, you always have to be
debuted in love.
So I think it's a matter ofstarting it like.
I think everything starts withthe man.
He has to be the one to pursue,he has to be the one to ask you
(29:35):
out on dates, bring you flowersfor no apparent reason.
He has to be the one to leadthat charge and lead the family.
And it's not a chauvinisticthing, but I think women like
that when the man is beingactive and being intentional.
(30:01):
You know, that's our word forthe year being intentional with
his wife and with theirrelationship, because it's
something that always, always,always has to be nurtured.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So I think what's going on is that there's a lot
of men that don't even subscribeto what the heck you're saying.
They don't get it, they don'tunderstand it.
It's not on their radar to wantto better themselves or even
make the marriage stronger.
They, you know, emotionallyit's like, yeah, I want to make
it better, but like in order tomake it better, you have to put
forth effort, and that takessome work, and some guys aren't
(30:38):
willing to do that.
I feel like in today's age andsociety, women back in the day
were fully dependent on a man,so we had to put up with your
guys of the shit to break itdown.
Nowadays, women know how tomake their own money.
They literally can get it doneby themselves, on their own.
(30:59):
Do we want to have it that way?
No, of course not.
But we need a man to come in,not in a I'm going to control
you way because there's men thatare like manly men, very
masculine, that will come andget the job done, but they're
not nourishing that soft side ofthe woman.
And then also women hold on tothat independence because they
(31:21):
don't feel like they can trustor be confident that the man can
carry you in this life and soright now I feel like there's a
whole conflict in our societywhere women want to be viewed as
independent.
But I don't know.
I'm not speaking for all women,but I know that there's a side
of us that wants to be nurturedand wants to be taken care of.
(31:44):
But it has to be the right man.
There has to be that rightbalance of knowing when to kind
of come in and quote unquotebeat a man, and then knowing
when to like, let the woman beherself.
And that is very rare to findin a man the man that is
confident enough to allow you tobe who you are, to step in when
(32:07):
you need to step in, for thewoman to be able to come to you
and say, listen, this is whatI've got and you're like I got
you, let's do that.
That is very rare and thepeople that don't have it not
saying that they're not capable,each individual in that
marriage or in relationship, I'mnot saying that it's not that
they don't have those tools.
(32:28):
Maybe they just together don'tbring the best out in each other
.
You know what I'm saying.
So I never want to like dogsomeone because they might go to
that next person and that nextwoman and that woman might bring
that, that you know, thosequalities out where you and it
doesn't mean anything about thewoman, it doesn't mean anything
(32:50):
about the man, it just you guysweren't evenly yoked.
And I think nowadays we justget married because that's
something that we should do.
That's some of us as atraditional, if we were raised
in the church like you just findthat first person it's like
okay, they're, they're goodenough for me and deep down, you
guys aren't really meant to betogether.
(33:10):
So then you're, there's a,there's a conflict where you're
emasculating the man because youdon't respect them.
You know what I'm saying?
That's, that's what I'm, I'mseeing.
And then there was this, I don'tknow what came.
There's a paragraph that Iwrote down and I think it hit me
because I feel that, with you,I feel and listen, when you see
(33:31):
us, people are like oh, you too,and this, and that, yes, and we
are amazing.
I don't want to toot our ownhorn or pat ourselves on the
back, but listen, we've haddifficult conversations.
We've had like deep, me cryingand you yelling, where we've had
to really express ourselves,and so I felt this, this
(33:54):
paragraph I don't know what camebefore it.
But it says this isn't to saywomen can't be heroic.
So I think, as he was sayingsomething about men being heroes
and we need that so it's notsaying just because a man needs
to be a hero doesn't mean wecan't be heroes either.
It can be both.
And I think sometimes it's likewell, if I allow the man to do
this, that takes away from me.
No, it could be and or and andyou know, and or it could all be
(34:19):
together.
So this says this isn't to saywomen can't be heroic I know
many heroic women.
It's simply to remind us thatGod made men the way they are
because we desperately need themto be the way they are.
Yes, a man is a dangerous thing.
So is a scalpel.
It can wound or it can't saveyour life.
(34:41):
You don't make it safe bymaking it dull.
You put it in the hands ofsomeone who knows what he's
doing.
And that's how I feel with you.
I feel like you're holding this, this tool that could hurt or
that could save, and I think alot of women want to dole it
because they don't want to behurt, because they have been
(35:03):
hurt, because men haven't shownthem that they can come in and
take care of you, but with theright person.
You allow like I allow you to bewho you are and lead when you
need to lead.
You know what I'm saying.
When I feel and I don't have to, you know, bash every idea or
poo poo everything that, becauseI need my way.
(35:24):
There's this balance of youfeel safe with me and I feel
safe with you, and that is verymuch lacking.
I know there's a lot of peopleout there that they're making it
.
They're doing it.
Hashtag couples goals.
You would know anything aboutthat, phillip, but that's all
over the intranets.
Hashtag couples goals.
I know that exists you don't,but for the majority of
(35:48):
relationships that is very rare.
And if a man knows what they'redoing with that scalpel man
like I think, men want that fromus, Right?
So it's not worth it to show us.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Let the prove it that you're a leader, that you're
worthy of that, and that's whereit's hard.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yes, you're saying all these things, but not every
man is cut from the same cloth,so how do we get there?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's a whole other show.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Oh, okay, I thought you had answers, man, I thought
you had it like you need to dothis, you need to do this, you
need to do this, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It's a lot of communication, it's a lot of
consistency.
It's been very, veryintentional and sometimes you
need a reminder, you know, forthe woman to say, hey, remember
you used to do this and then dothat.
And you know, sometimes youjust need to kick in your butt
to kind of reset and get back oncourse with certain things.
(36:45):
But I really, I truly believethat the devil would love to
come between a married coupleand just to marry couple, evenly
, yoke on the same page, prayingtogether, spiritually connected
(37:06):
.
It's very dangerous to thedevil and the warfare and the
war that he brings up in thisbook and the battle is a
spiritual warfare and it's awarfare that if we keep taking
away the heart of the man, it'sgonna be easily battle won by
(37:29):
the devil.
And the thing about it is youknow he's talking about in this
book, which I think is awesome.
You know a lot of people thinkwhen they were coming to
Christian they would somehow endall their troubles or at least
reduce them.
No one ever told them they'rebeing moved to the front lines
(37:50):
and that's the front lines ofthe spiritual warfare that
happens and no one ever toldthem that.
And then they're generallyshocked at the fact that they're
getting shot at, that thespiritual warfare is happening
to them, happening to theirmarriages, because in a perfect
(38:12):
world the man's a dangerous, isa dangerous and is a threat, is
a danger and is a threat.
And I think reducing that froma boyhood to a man really takes
away from the whole premise ofwhat a man can truly be and how
(38:34):
powerful he can be, which alsomeans leading his family, you
know, taking care of his wife,cherishing his wife.
It's not a matter of you knowhis way or the highway.
I mean sometimes it's beingvulnerable, being humble, being
(38:55):
transparent is a very powerfulthing Versus trying to be macho
or overly aggressive or overlydomineering.
You know that's not the machoand the manly part I'm talking
about.
It involves everything.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
So, like, do you see?
I mean, obviously, like I said,there's men that have that
balance, but obviously it allcomes from some kind of wound
within these men, the men thatare overly aggressive, overly
controlling, obviously there'ssomething way deeper in their
spirit that is making them,that's making them overly
aggressive and angry and they'rejust taking out on everybody
(39:39):
around them.
But the men that you know mayhave had fathers, because not
every man that has that woundhas an absent T father.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
you know what.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I'm saying Not every man, like there's a lot of men
that grew up with their fathersthat still have that.
What makes these men?
What is happening that thesemen are being emasculated or
taking like kind of stripped,stripped down, like who's doing
that?
The dads, because you saideveryone comes from their dads.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
So yeah, that's the dad.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
So what is it that they're doing?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
And it doesn't have to be, you don't have to be
absent, t, but a lot of times itcould be the, and a lot of
times it comes down to wordsthat you say or words you don't
say, because just those momentsyou know from 11 to 15,.
They say in this book, which Itruly believe is a crucial time
(40:33):
in a young boy's life, that youcan really build your son up or
really tear him down.
And it may just be a word or afew words or maybe nothing, when
they're asking nonverbally do Ihave what it takes?
Do you love me?
(40:54):
And sometimes you can do thatby your actions.
When he says this in a book, youmean, we're so caught up in
working that our focus is onproviding it's not the time that
we spend.
It has nothing to do with theamount of time, because we can't
devote that same amount of timeand when we're working so hard,
(41:17):
but it's the quality of timeand what you do at that time.
Because I remember reading inone of our books that we read a
few years ago and it said youknow, you're not going to have
this amount of time with yourson, this finite amount of time
with your son, and if you reallybreak it down to him?
You don't have, and I looked atit at the time.
(41:37):
I said I don't have five yearswith Kalil before he graduates.
I need to teach him everythingI know in that time period.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
But people say that, but does it have to be crunched
up in five years?
Like they're not, like we'reall like, we're always evolving,
we're always growing.
I understand the mindset behindthat, but I feel like, as
humans, that creates a lot ofanxiety, especially in mothers
where it's like I'll have twomore years.
Okay, yes, under our roof.
Technically, however, therestill are babies and there's
(42:10):
still our children and you'restill going to always impart
wisdom in them.
Like even when they're 50 yearsold, they're always going to
look to us for some kind ofguidance.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
But I believe there's critical times in someone's
development and, yes, you'realways telling them something in
their 20s and their 30s and youknow and that's to be honest, a
lot of times in their 20sthey're not listening to you.
So you have to establish thatfoundation somewhere and somehow
.
But I think there's criticaltimes in a child's development.
(42:39):
So, no, you don't, you justdon't have five years, but it
does lay down importance of thattime you do have.
It's not a countdown, but itdoes give you some type of
mindfulness to say, hey, Ireally need to.
Yeah, would I rather do thisand take a little driving 100%.
(43:04):
However, I'll never get thattime back.
I'll never get that experiencein the things that we talk about
one on one when we're together,when we're alone.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
So pretty much it's setting that foundation early on
so that when they do leave thehouse that it's set, you have to
create it when they're older,because it's a lot harder than.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
And this is the other thing, not just that, and
sometimes I say it's the qualityof it and I can always when I
talked about modeling, they needto see me how I treat you and
then they'll know how they needto treat another woman and how
they need to cherish that person.
And they need to be vulnerablebecause you're not going to
(43:50):
always be right, but it's goodfor my son to see that also and
have to treat a woman.
And it's also like we read in,and even in this book, how your
daughter, their first love intheir life, is their father.
(44:11):
And if you model the rightrelationship with that daughter,
a lot of times they're going toseek that in the next person
that they're actually dating,falling in love with, because
they're going to have certainexpectations that their father
gave them in life and how theywere treated and how they saw
(44:31):
their mother treated and howthey treated their daughter, and
in doing that, that's whatthey're going to, that's what
they're going to be attracted to.
That's what they're going tosee is, hey, this is how a guy
should treat a woman, this ishow a guy should care and
nurture, and whether it's comingfrom their father or seeing the
(44:52):
example of their parents beingtogether, and that's a critical
time to do that in a child'slife, because by the time
they're 20 and out the house.
Yeah, you've laid down afoundation, I think, and yeah,
that doesn't mean you're stoppedmodeling and you stop having
those conversations with them.
But I think those conversationschange, they become something
(45:16):
different as your child getsolder.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So it basically also said if a man doesn't get
everything that they need, theytry to find it in other things.
So you mentioned pornography.
They'll find it in power andsuccess and money and cars and
shiny things.
They try to find it in so manyother things if they're missing
(45:42):
something.
And there's this one line inthere that said but the
deadliest place a man ever takeshis search, the place every man
seems to wind up, no matterwhat trail he follows, is the
woman.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Taking it to Eve, as he says in the book.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Which means we have a lot of power.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
A lot.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
In turning.
I'm not saying that it's ourduty to turn things around, but
women have more power than weactually realize.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
And he also says that this is why so many men
secretly fear their wives.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I wrote that one down , yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Because, if you know, if the one you marry, she sees
you the way no one else does.
She sees you when you're atyour lowest, when you're at the
highest, when you're you knowshe's the one that sleeps with
you.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, that's what I said.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
She knows what you're made of, so she knows who you
are behind the image that youportrayed.
Everyone else.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Well, it says let me read it, because I wrote that
one down, because that one waspowerful.
This is why so many mensecretly fear their wives.
She sees him as no one elsedoes, sleeps with him, knows
what he's made of.
If he has given her the powerto validate him as a man, then
he has also given her the powerto invalidate him too.
(47:10):
That's the deadly catch.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Well, you're pursuing this woman.
You know you're searching.
You're like they said.
You know every woman wants tobe pursued, so you're pursuing
them.
And that's the adventure whenyou're in first relationship and
then you've captured her andyou got her.
But you put a lot of effortinto doing that and a lot of
(47:36):
times you're very vulnerable andyou put a lot of trust in it.
But that person could easilybreak you.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I can snap you in half and I will have the power.
You will be all mine.
No, that you believe that to betrue.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yes, 100%.
Because if you're not groundedin who you are, you're going to
think that that person is thething that grounds you.
And if that person is not inyour life, you see it all the
time People go crazy.
They have a whole show that Iwatch when it comes to snapped.
(48:21):
So you know you have thosepeople that as soon as that in
their minds, that foundation,which is a human, which is
flawed, disappoints them, theylose their mind.
And if you don't already havethat foundation, you don't
already have dealt with thatquestion you have about your
(48:44):
soul and your heart and you'rethinking someone else is going
to do it for you, because thenthat's the natural pursuit to
someone to want you and thenthat validates you.
If that's your whole premise ofyour validation, that can
easily be taken away, becausewe're flawed, we're sinful,
(49:09):
we're going to make mistakes andwe're going to hurt other
people, and when we do thatsometimes it flips, so it can
build you up and it can tear youdown just as easily.
Yeah, it's very fragile.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
I think the bottom line that what I get from and
you know this is the onlychapter I've read.
I don't know the whole book butin talking with this chapter
and talking about this chapterand reading it, the bottom line
to me is, when you come togetheras one, you decide you want to
live this life together.
I feel like a lot of times, weall just get very complacent.
(49:46):
Well, we did it, I'm going tojust be complacent.
You be complacent, I becomplacent.
That's where shit happens.
You and I subscribe to the samething, where we're continually
growing and learning, learningand growing, growing and
learning.
That's something that we bothhave in common.
(50:08):
You know moments where we'vegotten complacent.
That's where we're likeclashing.
That's where we're not seeingeye to eye.
I've had to be more vocal andspeak up, that this is what I
need, and you've heard andyou've listened.
I feel for those couples andthose marriages where one person
(50:33):
is trying to change things orgrow and learn and the other one
is just sitting and happy andokay with how things are.
That's where there's like adifficult you know, come to
Jesus moments like do you justsettle for it and this is just
the way?
My life is forever, becauseI've committed to this person.
How do you get your partner tokind of be on the same level as
(50:58):
you?
Because for me, complacency isthat doesn't work.
So I'm so glad that you're notlike that, because it's okay to
be content, and you and I havetalked about that.
We're content and things areflowing, but it doesn't mean
that we're just going to justleave it the way it is.
Because, when something comes up, it's like, okay, this is a
(51:18):
growing opportunity, this is agrowth opportunity, what can we
do with this?
But for people to be like, ohwell, this is just who I am,
this is how it's always been allthese years.
Why are you griping about itnow?
You know, because I'm gripingabout it now because I don't
like it.
Okay, because I heard a podcastViroqua 24-7.
I decided I ain't putting upwith this shit no more.
You know what I'm saying.
(51:39):
So it's, I feel, for the peoplethat aren't growing together.
Do you think men, do you feellike men, have that capability?
Or they just are willing to doit with the right person, or
they they've checked out, orlike what?
What can we?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
It's.
It's a lot of those things, butI think one of the biggest
things is definitely for theright person they will.
A guy, if he really cares aboutyou, will do pretty much
whatever to gain your trust andgain your affection.
When he doesn't care about you,he's not going to go through
(52:25):
the fight for it.
Now can you turn around and getlike so complacent not content,
but complacent that you forgetto do those things?
100% doesn't mean that it's notsomething we're fighting for or
certain worth trying to change,because I think once he
(52:49):
realizes you're serious about itand you're not just because you
know sometimes people will justsay stuff and never have any
action behind what they say.
It's just a threat.
And then the guy knows it's athreat and he knows it means
nothing because in a weekthey're going to be the same
that they were prior to that.
(53:11):
But when you show that you'reserious about what you're saying
and you're intentional andyou're consistent and how you
want things to be and you're notwishy-washy, if they care about
you they'll change.
At least be willing to changeand work on it together.
(53:32):
But when it's just kind of okay, I'm yelling at you today and
the next week I'm fine witheverything you've been doing.
And then I yell at you againsix months later or three months
later.
You kind of just be numb.
You get become numb to it andignore it, or you're dealing and
(53:52):
getting something somewhereelse and you don't care.
I am just here for the childrenand I'll get my pleasures from
something else.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
That's sad, that's real sad.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
But you know that's unfortunately.
That's the society that we'rein right now.
We have access to a lot ofthings and that's not always
good.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
So what else, as we're wrapping up, what else did
you want to share?
How you guys need that outletto be who you are, how women
have all the power, all thepower.
Okay, we have some power and Iknow I do I joke about it but I
feel like a woman does have alot of control and power and
(54:45):
that we can use it forshenanigans.
You know there's a lot of usthat know we can manipulate,
that we can persuade, that wecan be persuasive and we use it
for, like, malice and viciousintent.
You know there's a lot of usthat know that we can do that
and we use it for not goodthings.
So just know, for us women, youknow there's time sports like
(55:10):
well, I'm not going to do itbecause he's not trying, so
maybe we try to alter what we doand see if it changes.
Like you never know.
I think sometimes we're like Idon't stand still, like like the
Wild Wild West, where it's likewe're just standing there face
to face seeing who's going tomove first and instead of one
person, it's all about pride andfreaking ego when it comes down
(55:32):
to it, and if one of us canjust make that first move, then
maybe the other person would belike, okay, it's softened a
little bit.
It's like, okay, we're in thistogether, like you've always
told me.
And we learn to say like we'rea team, we're on the same side,
we're on the same team and we'rein this together.
And when someone says that,when you're in the middle of you
(55:55):
know, wanting to rip eachother's heads off, and it's like
you're right, we're on the sameteam, you're not my enemy.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
So I like this quote that he put in the book.
He said God gave us eyes sothat we might see.
He gave us ears that we mighthear.
He gave us wheels that we mightchoose, and he gave us hearts
that we might live.
The way we handle the heart iseverything, and it's how we
(56:24):
handle our own hearts, how wehandle our wives' hearts, our
daughters or sons.
That's a lot, but a man ispowerful and he can handle a lot
, and I think we just need toknow what we, who we are.
Because he says you need to be,you need to show authentic
(56:45):
masculinity, which doesn't mean,you know, banging your head
against the wall, jumping out ofplanes, climbing mountains, and
there's nothing wrong withdoing any of those things.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Except banging your head against the wall.
That's a little excessive.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Extreme right, but it doesn't mean you're always
looking for that adventure.
You know, like he says in thebook, a woman doesn't always
want.
She wants adventures she canshare with someone and I think
that if we're being authenticselves and intentional, all
(57:27):
those other things can happen.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
So I'll end with this when a man truly loves a woman,
she becomes his weakness.
When a woman truly loves a man,he becomes her strength.
This is called exchange ofpower.
Thank you, phillip, welcomebaby, aka Felipe.
Bye.
(57:53):
So I wanted to share with youall that Virago is going to have
an event.
It is going to be November 11ththis November 11th and it'll be
all day.
We will have yoga.
We have an Enneagram coach.
For those who don't know whatan Enneagram is, google it.
It's a lot of fun.
(58:13):
You'll learn a lot aboutyourself and your inner workings
.
We'll have a lot of differentactivities to help with, like
goal setting and just kind ofdigging deeper into who we are.
So the event is called Evolvewith Virago 24-7 and it will be
at a Lakeside Resort.
(58:34):
It's gorgeous setting.
It's going to be very soothing,very zen, a time to regroup.
If you want to stay in thehotel where the event is
occurring, there is discountcode.
So if you go to eventbritecomand then just put in the search
(58:55):
Evolve with Virago 24-7, theevent will pop up.
You can get all the detailsthere.
And, yeah, this is just a timeto bring what we discussed here
on the podcast to life, where wecan all come together and build
a community of women that aregrowing and healing and are
(59:15):
lawyers.
So, yes, I look forward toseeing you all November 11th.
Thank you so much for listeningto Virago 24-7.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
button and please give us fivestar ratings.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago 24
(59:37):
underscore seven, and onFacebook, at Virago 24 slash
seven, and just connect with usand share your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
Hi, I am your host, Lyanette Talley, and you are
listening to Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior and 24-7 is for all day,
every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world.
We share our views on self-love, mental health, marriage,
(00:24):
children, friendships and reallyanything that needs to be
talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
Hey, everybody hope everyone'sdoing well.
(00:47):
I'm here today with PhilippeTalley, aka Philip Talley, or
Philip Talley aka PhilippeTalley, I don't know which one
would you prefer?
I like Philip.
Okay, I'm still going to callyou Philippe.
I think I call you Philippe,maybe two, three, four, five,
(01:11):
six times a day.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Probably.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So, anyways, hello everyone.
We are gathered here today, meand Philip.
Philip is a part of a men'sgroup at church, and he's been a
part of it for I don't know howlong, but a long time, maybe 10
years.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I think 10 years.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And so they read books and they discuss them and
all the things and they do.
What men normally don't do isshare feelings, emotions,
thoughts, ideas.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So it's good.
He read this book a few yearsago called Wild at Heart
Discovering the Secret of aMan's Soul by John Eldridge.
So I know this is a woman'spodcast Virago, female Warrior.
However, men have a part in ourlives as women.
(02:17):
Whether we're married, whetherwe have a boyfriend, whether we
have a son, whether we have afather, whether we have a
grandfather, an uncle, a goodguy, friend, men are in our
lives and so it might sound likeI'm bringing male topics to
(02:39):
this podcast.
However, I feel like it allpertains to us as women and
things that we can learn from.
So Philip read this book withthis men's group a few years ago
.
They're rereading it becausethey have new people in the
group and they thought that thiswould be something that they
could talk about again andreread and those that have read
(03:01):
it can kind of impart theirknowledge about past discussions
on the book.
So I'm going to read the cover,or the back cover, of what the
book, like the theme, is aboutand then I'm going to let Philip
take it over.
But on the back it says everyman was once a boy and every
(03:24):
little boy has dreams, bigdreams, dreams of being the hero
, of beating the bad guys, ofdoing daring feats and rescuing
the damsel in distress.
Every little girl has dreamstoo of being rescued by her
prince and swept up into a greatadventure, knowing that she is
(03:47):
the beauty.
What happens to those dreamswhen we grow up?
Walk into most churches, have alook around and ask yourself
what is a Christian man Withoutlistening to what is said?
Look at what you find there.
Most Christian men are dot dotdot, bored In Wild at Heart.
(04:11):
John Eldridge invites men todiscover their masculine heart,
defined in an image of apassionate God, and he invites
women to discover the secret ofa man's soul and to delight in
the strength and wildness menwere created to offer.
So we're not going to discussthe whole book, we are
(04:33):
discussing chapter five.
Chapter five is titled theBattle for a Man's Heart.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So, philippe, so just like Leonette said, this book I
think we were at about tenyears ago in our men's group and
, unlike, I think, most men'sgroups, we actually dig deep and
we actually share, and I thinkthat's what makes us so close,
(05:04):
because it's not a group of guysthat we would pick to hang out
with if it was on our own, butour fearless leader, brian, who
has since passed away, broughtus all together so we felt like
as an under him we wouldcontinue to men's group and we
(05:27):
chose to reread this bookbecause it really resonated with
a lot of us and we have so manynew members, so we thought it
would be a good book to rereadand for others to read for the
first time.
And it challenges a lot ofthings when it comes to a man
(05:49):
and a man's heart, and I thinkone of the biggest things that
it says is you know, god gave useyes so that we might see.
He gave us ears that we mighthear.
He gave us wheels that we mightchoose and he gave us hearts
that we might live.
The way we handle the heart iseverything, and a man must know
he is powerful, he must know hehas what it takes, and a woman
(06:14):
must know she is beautiful andshe must know she is worth
fighting for.
But one of the things that hedoes talk about leading up to
this chapter is the wound that aman gets, and this wound is
(06:34):
something that at times becomespretty deep and a lot of times
it's rarely discussed.
And it's a wound that a mancarries most men carry, and the
wound is nearly always given byhis father, and that's usually
the deepest wound and that's theone that hurts the most, lasts
(06:57):
the longest, and you know.
A lot of that comes back to thefact that you know, as a boy,
you want to know that you havewhat it takes, you want to know
that you're powerful.
And he starts off this one storyto begin the chapter talking
about his son who's going tofirst grade and he's 11th grade.
(07:21):
He's having a great time.
Every night at dinner he'stelling them about all his
adventures of the day, how muchfun he's having about his number
two pencils and his Crayolas,and he heard about, you know,
the new teacher and how theyplay at recess and you know all
these things, and he would dothat every single day.
But one day he came home and hedidn't want to talk.
(07:43):
Finally, the story came out ofbully.
I had pushed him down in theplayground in front of all his
friends and his first grader wascrying when he was telling the
story back to his father and hismother.
And so the father at thatmoment said to him he told his
(08:06):
son, look at me.
I want you to listen very closeto what I'm about to say.
This is what he was saying tohis son.
The next time that bully pushesyou down, here's what I want
you to do.
I want you to get up.
I want you to hit him as hardas you possibly can.
The little boy was shocked, buthe was delighted, he was happy,
(08:33):
and I'm sure some people, somemothers, was like why did you
give him that advice and why washe so delighted by it and why
are some of you delighted by it?
Well, a boy is wild at heartand the thing about that is, I
was given that same advice frommy father, so I get it.
(08:55):
It makes sense to me as a boyyou don't let anyone bully you,
you don't let anyone hit you and, as my father told me, if
someone hits you you have to hitthem back, and that's just the
rules, and I'm sure thatprobably didn't happen with
women or girls when they wereraised, but with boys.
(09:19):
You have to give them thatfreedom.
You have to let them know youknow you're not telling them to
go around and be a bully or pickfights, but you can't let
someone hit you and then youjust walk away and you go tell
the teacher.
That just doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
(09:40):
And I mean I know that'sprobably not PC, but it's true.
And this book goes on to saythat you cannot teach a boy to
use the strength by strippingthem of it.
And I think that's 100 percent.
Because if we do do that, weemasculate them and from that
(10:03):
point on he'll end up beingpassive and fearful.
He'll grow up never knowing howto stand his ground, never
knowing if he's a man indeed,and he may look moral, like it
says in the book, he may looklike turning the other cheek,
but you can only turn a cheekyou don't.
You cannot turn a cheek youdon't have.
(10:26):
And you know, we're taught that.
We taught that in churches,we're talking that in the Bible
turn the other cheek.
And it's not that you can't dothat in certain situations, but
I just feel like you can't dothat throughout life, especially
when you're a boy and you'regrowing and you're kind of
(10:48):
testing your own strength andtesting your own freedoms and
extension of who you are.
So when we're transitioningfrom boys to men, we need to
know what those limits are.
(11:10):
And I'm not talking about takingthings to an extreme, and when
this book was written, I thinkthis was well before Columbine,
when that happened in Colorado,and so this was in a new
addition to the book in which headded some things and some
chapters to talk about somemodern day things that were
(11:33):
happening.
And he brought that example upand it came to how the boys were
labeled in that incident and itnot just, it just basically
became a blanket statement aboutboys in general and that this
(11:55):
is the boys in little town, orthe tip of the iceberg, it says
in the book, and the iceberg isall boys and the idea widely
held in our culture is thataggressive nature of boys is
inherently bad and we have tomake them into something more
like girls.
And it goes on to say thatBecause of that and it's a noble
(12:22):
goal, you know, when you're inschool To getting boys to sit
down, to sit still, to be quietto pay attention, but for an
entire day.
It's just not something that'sI don't think it's realistic
because that's not how boyswired.
And you know I remember when wewere growing up in school, you
(12:43):
know we used to have a recessand PE, so we had breaks, and
nowadays kids don't hardly getthat.
I mean, they get a little bitof that, but Avoid needs that
more than anything.
And I agree with this, as in abook that you know, we're
changing the way we do maleeducation Instead of changing
(13:05):
that way actually let me correctmyself rather than changing the
way we do male education, wetry to change males and in that
way we're we're Taking away thatnatural instinct of a boy and
we're trying to push it down andhave a model, something that
(13:27):
he's not and that really, overtime, it takes away his true
self.
So that's just one of thethings that that came up to me
in the first part of thischapter, which it really spoke
to me, especially the first partwhen he was telling his son
(13:48):
because I had the sameconversation with Khalil you
know someone hits you, you gothit him back and you know my
whole thing in school was wasthat my brother's taught me that
, my father taught me that.
But it's not more of just.
You got to be violent, you gotto fight someone.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You got to look for a fight Some more, so that you
know you defend yourself,exactly, exactly so I know you
guys haven't touched on thischapter yet in the book, but
obviously you've read one, twoand three and four has there and
and we're gonna get to someother things that apply to us
women.
So I'm just letting Philip kindof laid the groundwork for what
(14:31):
the book is about and what it'stalking about, with, you know,
boys and men having thisinherent characteristics within
them that I feel like nowadaysare, are being stifled, and so
is there any pushback onanything that you guys have read
, like in your guys's discussion?
You don't have to like divulge,like top secrets or anything
(14:53):
like that, but are you guys allin agreement of what the book is
saying so far or are youdebating, like what is some of
the things that you guys havetalked about without you know
calling anybody out?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
you know, I think when I felt the same way when I
first read the book, a while atheart, because it's not about
Going out and getting in natureand hunting and jumping from
skydiving and jumping off acliff, and you know he does talk
about having an adventure andthat you know at heart will we
(15:30):
want an adventure as men.
But it's more so because he'seven describes himself.
He's not, that's not him, he'snot that type of person himself.
So you know he's not the typeof person that's going to be.
You know, hunting and going outand drinking beers and Doing so
(15:55):
it's not like the stereotypicallike what you imagine To be so.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
There's there's qualities that men have.
You guys are all very different.
You have different likes anddislikes but, there's something
like within you all that Needsto come out yes, without someone
telling you that that's not theright thing to be or that's the
wrong way to be.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, okay and you know, there's just fundamental
things as boys, you know, boysare a little bit more more
rambunctious, aggressive, a lotmore energetic.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And I mean there's a reason for that yeah and even
you know Khalil is, is a verymore People would consider him
more like calm natured orpassive or you know whatever,
like he's not jumping off Roofand stuff like that.
However, there's times wherehe's like he needs to let that
aggression out.
He's even told me I just wantto punch something, just want to
(16:51):
hit something.
I'm like, dude, go outside andjust start running or like, are
you making run hills or notmaking?
But you suggest, hey, run hills, put these weights on your legs
, and so there's, there's ways.
Even the most passive kid needsto let out some kind of emotion
or some kind of yes, yeah, evenif they're not Outwardly, just
(17:13):
in your face about it.
Internally maybe they'reinternalizing, maybe because
they feel like they can't or notallowed to express those
emotions.
But there's, I feel, ways to doit in a safe way.
100%.
Go run around the house.
I tell them I just go runaround the house.
I'm like maybe I'll buy you alittle punching bag.
You can just start punching thecrap out of it, right?
So okay.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So you know, it's just one of those things because
he always talks about you knowwhen it comes to you know
because right now he goes backto how, now how they're always
everyone's getting diagnosedwith ADD and that would describe
in Ritalin for every littlesituation.
But he's saying in the book andI don't know how true it is but
(17:57):
makes sense, the use of thesedrugs is so disproportionately,
disproportionately among boys.
It's more prescribed for boysthan it is for girls and it
almost seems like really the owndisease they have is being male
, because Sometimes it doesn'tmean it.
(18:18):
I mean, they're obviously acase that do have ADD and they
do need some type of regulationwhen it comes to the chemical
imbalance or things of thatnature, that they need something
prescribed.
But I think we over Prescribesand we do that all the time with
antibiotics, with other drugsor things, medicines, and he
(18:42):
pointed that out.
When it comes to boys it justsometimes Just rambunctious and
energetic and doesn'tnecessarily mean and they don't
learn the same.
You know, and I'm not trying toput a blanket statement around
everyone, but it's just a thingthat we need to be careful about
when it comes to when we'reraising a boys, and I mean you
(19:02):
and I talked about this earliera boy needs Some type of man in
his life.
So, if it's not, his father,grandfather, uncle, somebody
that he needs to model and showand also show Limitations,
(19:25):
because you can't give intoevery emotion that you have and
show some kind of self-controland the boy needs to see that
model around him.
But and it has to be modeledwith another male though.
I truly, truly believe that andyou know, I'd, luckily, growing
up sometimes just very naive ata very strong role model in my
(19:50):
life, which is my father, and Ifelt that he was a great example
of a man and a father, and hewasn't the most athletic and he
wasn't the one that Did allthese crazy adventures and
things of that nature, but he,to me he seemed to be the, he
(20:11):
modeled what a man should be inevery aspect of my life, and Not
until I was, that's three yearsago.
Mm-hmm that those of you wholisten to the show I I had a
surreal moment when I found outmy father wasn't everything I
thought he was and you know hewas unfaithful to my mother.
(20:34):
He had two other children andit was.
It was.
It was hard to deal with.
It was kind of a shock and itseemed like everything that I
thought my father was was wasnot as much as I thought it he
(20:57):
was when it came to whatpedestal I put him on.
But I will say he at leastmodeled it.
He probably didn't do what hesaid and luckily I didn't know
what he did, because if I hadfound that out earlier in my
life, I doubt very seriously I'dbe the man I am now.
(21:18):
To be honest, because thatwould have rocked my whole world
.
I was very naive into thinkingthat he was at this level or
this pedestal in life as a man,as a father, and I wanted to
model myself behind him in a lotof ways.
So I think I had a reallystrong foundation when it come
(21:42):
to following my heart andfeeling I was man enough and
things of that nature.
But I can see very easily howthat could have changed under
circumstances, because I didn'thave that wound from my father,
but that type of news, if I hadgotten it earlier in my life,
especially in a very young age,that would have been devastating
(22:04):
.
So even on that I want to thankKeith for not kind of just
blowing us up as when he couldhave.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Who's Keith?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
for those who haven't heard he's my brother, who we
just met three years ago, andhe's amazing, great person,
great man, awesome father,husband.
Yeah, every time I spent timewith Keith I learned something
(22:33):
and it's been awesome to get toknow him as my brother.
And he could have, because he'solder than I am I was going to
say a lot older, but he's olderthan I am and when he could have
, when he was driving from StLouis to Little Rock, he could
have very easily just stepped onour doorstep and knocked on the
(22:54):
door and blown up this wholeprocess that I was living.
And he chose not to, and I wantto thank him for that, because I
definitely would not be theperson I am now if he had.
And reading this book lets mesee the impact that a father has
(23:16):
, or a man has, on a young man'slife and how you can shape him
and grow him and nurture him, oryou can give a wound to him in
his heart that he will beforever chasing.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So okay, so you've laid down, basically the
foundation of what the book isabout, that men have, you know,
have this thing inside them,this fire that needs to be
nourished in a healthy way.
Since we have a lot of womenlisteners, I want to start
talking about how it applies tous, because I read the chapter
(23:54):
and I there was like a fewthings that just like bam like
stood out to me, because ittalks about Christian men and
how he basically these are notmy words that they are weak and
they stand down and that theyaren't stepping up the way they
(24:16):
should, and there's a few thingsthat I wrote down that applies
to women and marriage and themen, and so I want to talk more
about that.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So one of the things when he talks about marriage and
he talks about, you know, theemasculation of a man from
boyhood or the wound his fathergives him, which could be very
emasculating depending on whatthe father says to the boy on a
consistent basis or that onetime they may devastate him.
He said it all also happens inmarriage.
(24:47):
And you know women, he said.
Women are often attracted tothe wild side of a man.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Oh yeah, I wrote that down, this, this yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But once having caught him, they settled down to
the task of domesticating him.
Ironically, if he gives in,he'll resent her for it, and
then she in turn will wonderwhere the passion has gone.
I mean, we hear about that allthe time, and then it says most
marriages wind up there.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I wrote that down because I was like, wow, that's
what do you feel?
How do you feel about thatstatement?
And obviously you're a man, soyou're going to be like rah, rah
, rah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Men power.
Well, this is what I feel.
I think that it happens.
I mean, it doesn't happen allthe time.
It's not something happens 90%of the time.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I think.
I think it's higher percentagethan you would realize.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
But it happens more than 50% of the time.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I'm team woman.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
But I feel like women do that.
And I think that they also dothat to their boys, and it's a
natural, natural instinct for amother to want to protect their
children and baby the little boy.
(26:09):
And he's always going to betheir little boy, but there
comes a time that the father hasto step in and show him a
little bit of different side ofcaring and loving.
It's going to be a little bitmore firm.
It's going to be let him havesome a little bit more
(26:31):
adventures than the mom would do, like we talked about earlier
with my mother.
If it was up to my mother, Iwould have never played sports,
because you get hit, you gethurt, and so if I could have
done anything, I would have juststayed and played the cello all
the time.
And gone to the opera, gone tothe opera and Alvin Haley
(26:54):
dancers the ballet, which was, Ithink, for me it was a nice
balance, but for my father hewas okay with me playing sports.
So I did play sports.
But back to marriage.
I think it happens and it'sunfortunate, and sometimes guys
(27:15):
don't know why or how ithappened, because you know
you're getting married, you'renot trying to chase the woman
anymore, you're not trying towoo her, you're not trying to
date her.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, why not?
Why do you guys stop doing that?
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I think and I've been guilty of doing that at times I
think you just get settled in aroutine.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Well, what happens is like a woman.
When that stops, is like okay.
So no wonder you guys getemasculated or things don't work
out in your favor Like theywere in the beginning, because
you stopped pursuing us.
So then we're like, okay, well,what the heck?
Okay, well then, I won't putyou up in this high-emanded
(27:57):
pedestal that you once were on.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So it's like whatever you don't want to take care of
me, so I don't want to take careof you in that way.
It's a vicious cycle and itdoesn't correct itself.
It just gets worse, and it'ssomething that you know.
Other things come out of it andother problems, and men start
pursuing pornography, or thewomen are both, because now
(28:24):
that's the adventure, that's thebeauty that they're looking out
for.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's what validates them.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Or searching for yeah .
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It said something in there about.
You know, when men date youngerwomen, it's like because
they're not a challenge, becausethey don't have the wisdom that
someone their age has.
And so you know she's lookingat you like, wow, look at this
manly man.
Okay, that sucks that.
You guys do that.
However, that's the mentalitybehind it.
(28:52):
Let's go for the younger womanwho can validate my ego and
caress that.
But what can we do in marriage?
Why do we just Like?
How can we make it so that youguys don't do that?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I think it has to go both ways, in the sense that you
know you always have to bepursued, you always have to be
debuted in love.
So I think it's a matter ofstarting it like.
I think everything starts withthe man.
He has to be the one to pursue,he has to be the one to ask you
(29:35):
out on dates, bring you flowersfor no apparent reason.
He has to be the one to leadthat charge and lead the family.
And it's not a chauvinisticthing, but I think women like
that when the man is beingactive and being intentional.
(30:01):
You know, that's our word forthe year being intentional with
his wife and with theirrelationship, because it's
something that always, always,always has to be nurtured.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So I think what's going on is that there's a lot
of men that don't even subscribeto what the heck you're saying.
They don't get it, they don'tunderstand it.
It's not on their radar to wantto better themselves or even
make the marriage stronger.
They, you know, emotionallyit's like, yeah, I want to make
it better, but like in order tomake it better, you have to put
forth effort, and that takessome work, and some guys aren't
(30:38):
willing to do that.
I feel like in today's age andsociety, women back in the day
were fully dependent on a man,so we had to put up with your
guys of the shit to break itdown.
Nowadays, women know how tomake their own money.
They literally can get it doneby themselves, on their own.
(30:59):
Do we want to have it that way?
No, of course not.
But we need a man to come in,not in a I'm going to control
you way because there's men thatare like manly men, very
masculine, that will come andget the job done, but they're
not nourishing that soft side ofthe woman.
And then also women hold on tothat independence because they
(31:21):
don't feel like they can trustor be confident that the man can
carry you in this life and soright now I feel like there's a
whole conflict in our societywhere women want to be viewed as
independent.
But I don't know.
I'm not speaking for all women,but I know that there's a side
of us that wants to be nurturedand wants to be taken care of.
(31:44):
But it has to be the right man.
There has to be that rightbalance of knowing when to kind
of come in and quote unquotebeat a man, and then knowing
when to like, let the woman beherself.
And that is very rare to findin a man the man that is
confident enough to allow you tobe who you are, to step in when
(32:07):
you need to step in, for thewoman to be able to come to you
and say, listen, this is whatI've got and you're like I got
you, let's do that.
That is very rare and thepeople that don't have it not
saying that they're not capable,each individual in that
marriage or in relationship, I'mnot saying that it's not that
they don't have those tools.
(32:28):
Maybe they just together don'tbring the best out in each other
.
You know what I'm saying.
So I never want to like dogsomeone because they might go to
that next person and that nextwoman and that woman might bring
that, that you know, thosequalities out where you and it
doesn't mean anything about thewoman, it doesn't mean anything
(32:50):
about the man, it just you guysweren't evenly yoked.
And I think nowadays we justget married because that's
something that we should do.
That's some of us as atraditional, if we were raised
in the church like you just findthat first person it's like
okay, they're, they're goodenough for me and deep down, you
guys aren't really meant to betogether.
(33:10):
So then you're, there's a,there's a conflict where you're
emasculating the man because youdon't respect them.
You know what I'm saying?
That's, that's what I'm, I'mseeing.
And then there was this, I don'tknow what came.
There's a paragraph that Iwrote down and I think it hit me
because I feel that, with you,I feel and listen, when you see
(33:31):
us, people are like oh, you too,and this, and that, yes, and we
are amazing.
I don't want to toot our ownhorn or pat ourselves on the
back, but listen, we've haddifficult conversations.
We've had like deep, me cryingand you yelling, where we've had
to really express ourselves,and so I felt this, this
(33:54):
paragraph I don't know what camebefore it.
But it says this isn't to saywomen can't be heroic.
So I think, as he was sayingsomething about men being heroes
and we need that so it's notsaying just because a man needs
to be a hero doesn't mean wecan't be heroes either.
It can be both.
And I think sometimes it's likewell, if I allow the man to do
this, that takes away from me.
No, it could be and or and andyou know, and or it could all be
(34:19):
together.
So this says this isn't to saywomen can't be heroic I know
many heroic women.
It's simply to remind us thatGod made men the way they are
because we desperately need themto be the way they are.
Yes, a man is a dangerous thing.
So is a scalpel.
It can wound or it can't saveyour life.
(34:41):
You don't make it safe bymaking it dull.
You put it in the hands ofsomeone who knows what he's
doing.
And that's how I feel with you.
I feel like you're holding this, this tool that could hurt or
that could save, and I think alot of women want to dole it
because they don't want to behurt, because they have been
(35:03):
hurt, because men haven't shownthem that they can come in and
take care of you, but with theright person.
You allow like I allow you to bewho you are and lead when you
need to lead.
You know what I'm saying.
When I feel and I don't have to, you know, bash every idea or
poo poo everything that, becauseI need my way.
(35:24):
There's this balance of youfeel safe with me and I feel
safe with you, and that is verymuch lacking.
I know there's a lot of peopleout there that they're making it
.
They're doing it.
Hashtag couples goals.
You would know anything aboutthat, phillip, but that's all
over the intranets.
Hashtag couples goals.
I know that exists you don't,but for the majority of
(35:48):
relationships that is very rare.
And if a man knows what they'redoing with that scalpel man
like I think, men want that fromus, Right?
So it's not worth it to show us.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Let the prove it that you're a leader, that you're
worthy of that, and that's whereit's hard.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yes, you're saying all these things, but not every
man is cut from the same cloth,so how do we get there?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's a whole other show.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Oh, okay, I thought you had answers, man, I thought
you had it like you need to dothis, you need to do this, you
need to do this, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It's a lot of communication, it's a lot of
consistency.
It's been very, veryintentional and sometimes you
need a reminder, you know, forthe woman to say, hey, remember
you used to do this and then dothat.
And you know, sometimes youjust need to kick in your butt
to kind of reset and get back oncourse with certain things.
(36:45):
But I really, I truly believethat the devil would love to
come between a married coupleand just to marry couple, evenly
, yoke on the same page, prayingtogether, spiritually connected
(37:06):
.
It's very dangerous to thedevil and the warfare and the
war that he brings up in thisbook and the battle is a
spiritual warfare and it's awarfare that if we keep taking
away the heart of the man, it'sgonna be easily battle won by
(37:29):
the devil.
And the thing about it is youknow he's talking about in this
book, which I think is awesome.
You know a lot of people thinkwhen they were coming to
Christian they would somehow endall their troubles or at least
reduce them.
No one ever told them they'rebeing moved to the front lines
(37:50):
and that's the front lines ofthe spiritual warfare that
happens and no one ever toldthem that.
And then they're generallyshocked at the fact that they're
getting shot at, that thespiritual warfare is happening
to them, happening to theirmarriages, because in a perfect
(38:12):
world the man's a dangerous, isa dangerous and is a threat, is
a danger and is a threat.
And I think reducing that froma boyhood to a man really takes
away from the whole premise ofwhat a man can truly be and how
(38:34):
powerful he can be, which alsomeans leading his family, you
know, taking care of his wife,cherishing his wife.
It's not a matter of you knowhis way or the highway.
I mean sometimes it's beingvulnerable, being humble, being
(38:55):
transparent is a very powerfulthing Versus trying to be macho
or overly aggressive or overlydomineering.
You know that's not the machoand the manly part I'm talking
about.
It involves everything.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
So, like, do you see?
I mean, obviously, like I said,there's men that have that
balance, but obviously it allcomes from some kind of wound
within these men, the men thatare overly aggressive, overly
controlling, obviously there'ssomething way deeper in their
spirit that is making them,that's making them overly
aggressive and angry and they'rejust taking out on everybody
(39:39):
around them.
But the men that you know mayhave had fathers, because not
every man that has that woundhas an absent T father.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
you know what.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I'm saying Not every man, like there's a lot of men
that grew up with their fathersthat still have that.
What makes these men?
What is happening that thesemen are being emasculated or
taking like kind of stripped,stripped down, like who's doing
that?
The dads, because you saideveryone comes from their dads.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
So yeah, that's the dad.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
So what is it that they're doing?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
And it doesn't have to be, you don't have to be
absent, t, but a lot of times itcould be the, and a lot of
times it comes down to wordsthat you say or words you don't
say, because just those momentsyou know from 11 to 15,.
They say in this book, which Itruly believe is a crucial time
(40:33):
in a young boy's life, that youcan really build your son up or
really tear him down.
And it may just be a word or afew words or maybe nothing, when
they're asking nonverbally do Ihave what it takes?
Do you love me?
(40:54):
And sometimes you can do thatby your actions.
When he says this in a book, youmean, we're so caught up in
working that our focus is onproviding it's not the time that
we spend.
It has nothing to do with theamount of time, because we can't
devote that same amount of timeand when we're working so hard,
(41:17):
but it's the quality of timeand what you do at that time.
Because I remember reading inone of our books that we read a
few years ago and it said youknow, you're not going to have
this amount of time with yourson, this finite amount of time
with your son, and if you reallybreak it down to him?
You don't have, and I looked atit at the time.
(41:37):
I said I don't have five yearswith Kalil before he graduates.
I need to teach him everythingI know in that time period.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
But people say that, but does it have to be crunched
up in five years?
Like they're not, like we'reall like, we're always evolving,
we're always growing.
I understand the mindset behindthat, but I feel like, as
humans, that creates a lot ofanxiety, especially in mothers
where it's like I'll have twomore years.
Okay, yes, under our roof.
Technically, however, therestill are babies and there's
(42:10):
still our children and you'restill going to always impart
wisdom in them.
Like even when they're 50 yearsold, they're always going to
look to us for some kind ofguidance.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
But I believe there's critical times in someone's
development and, yes, you'realways telling them something in
their 20s and their 30s and youknow and that's to be honest, a
lot of times in their 20sthey're not listening to you.
So you have to establish thatfoundation somewhere and somehow
.
But I think there's criticaltimes in a child's development.
(42:39):
So, no, you don't, you justdon't have five years, but it
does lay down importance of thattime you do have.
It's not a countdown, but itdoes give you some type of
mindfulness to say, hey, Ireally need to.
Yeah, would I rather do thisand take a little driving 100%.
(43:04):
However, I'll never get thattime back.
I'll never get that experiencein the things that we talk about
one on one when we're together,when we're alone.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
So pretty much it's setting that foundation early on
so that when they do leave thehouse that it's set, you have to
create it when they're older,because it's a lot harder than.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
And this is the other thing, not just that, and
sometimes I say it's the qualityof it and I can always when I
talked about modeling, they needto see me how I treat you and
then they'll know how they needto treat another woman and how
they need to cherish that person.
And they need to be vulnerablebecause you're not going to
(43:50):
always be right, but it's goodfor my son to see that also and
have to treat a woman.
And it's also like we read in,and even in this book, how your
daughter, their first love intheir life, is their father.
(44:11):
And if you model the rightrelationship with that daughter,
a lot of times they're going toseek that in the next person
that they're actually dating,falling in love with, because
they're going to have certainexpectations that their father
gave them in life and how theywere treated and how they saw
(44:31):
their mother treated and howthey treated their daughter, and
in doing that, that's whatthey're going to, that's what
they're going to be attracted to.
That's what they're going tosee is, hey, this is how a guy
should treat a woman, this ishow a guy should care and
nurture, and whether it's comingfrom their father or seeing the
(44:52):
example of their parents beingtogether, and that's a critical
time to do that in a child'slife, because by the time
they're 20 and out the house.
Yeah, you've laid down afoundation, I think, and yeah,
that doesn't mean you're stoppedmodeling and you stop having
those conversations with them.
But I think those conversationschange, they become something
(45:16):
different as your child getsolder.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So it basically also said if a man doesn't get
everything that they need, theytry to find it in other things.
So you mentioned pornography.
They'll find it in power andsuccess and money and cars and
shiny things.
They try to find it in so manyother things if they're missing
(45:42):
something.
And there's this one line inthere that said but the
deadliest place a man ever takeshis search, the place every man
seems to wind up, no matterwhat trail he follows, is the
woman.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Taking it to Eve, as he says in the book.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Which means we have a lot of power.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
A lot.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
In turning.
I'm not saying that it's ourduty to turn things around, but
women have more power than weactually realize.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
And he also says that this is why so many men
secretly fear their wives.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
I wrote that one down , yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Because, if you know, if the one you marry, she sees
you the way no one else does.
She sees you when you're atyour lowest, when you're at the
highest, when you're you knowshe's the one that sleeps with
you.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, that's what I said.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
She knows what you're made of, so she knows who you
are behind the image that youportrayed.
Everyone else.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Well, it says let me read it, because I wrote that
one down, because that one waspowerful.
This is why so many mensecretly fear their wives.
She sees him as no one elsedoes, sleeps with him, knows
what he's made of.
If he has given her the powerto validate him as a man, then
he has also given her the powerto invalidate him too.
(47:10):
That's the deadly catch.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Well, you're pursuing this woman.
You know you're searching.
You're like they said.
You know every woman wants tobe pursued, so you're pursuing
them.
And that's the adventure whenyou're in first relationship and
then you've captured her andyou got her.
But you put a lot of effortinto doing that and a lot of
(47:36):
times you're very vulnerable andyou put a lot of trust in it.
But that person could easilybreak you.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I can snap you in half and I will have the power.
You will be all mine.
No, that you believe that to betrue.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yes, 100%.
Because if you're not groundedin who you are, you're going to
think that that person is thething that grounds you.
And if that person is not inyour life, you see it all the
time People go crazy.
They have a whole show that Iwatch when it comes to snapped.
(48:21):
So you know you have thosepeople that as soon as that in
their minds, that foundation,which is a human, which is
flawed, disappoints them, theylose their mind.
And if you don't already havethat foundation, you don't
already have dealt with thatquestion you have about your
(48:44):
soul and your heart and you'rethinking someone else is going
to do it for you, because thenthat's the natural pursuit to
someone to want you and thenthat validates you.
If that's your whole premise ofyour validation, that can
easily be taken away, becausewe're flawed, we're sinful,
(49:09):
we're going to make mistakes andwe're going to hurt other
people, and when we do thatsometimes it flips, so it can
build you up and it can tear youdown just as easily.
Yeah, it's very fragile.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
I think the bottom line that what I get from and
you know this is the onlychapter I've read.
I don't know the whole book butin talking with this chapter
and talking about this chapterand reading it, the bottom line
to me is, when you come togetheras one, you decide you want to
live this life together.
I feel like a lot of times, weall just get very complacent.
(49:46):
Well, we did it, I'm going tojust be complacent.
You be complacent, I becomplacent.
That's where shit happens.
You and I subscribe to the samething, where we're continually
growing and learning, learningand growing, growing and
learning.
That's something that we bothhave in common.
(50:08):
You know moments where we'vegotten complacent.
That's where we're likeclashing.
That's where we're not seeingeye to eye.
I've had to be more vocal andspeak up, that this is what I
need, and you've heard andyou've listened.
I feel for those couples andthose marriages where one person
(50:33):
is trying to change things orgrow and learn and the other one
is just sitting and happy andokay with how things are.
That's where there's like adifficult you know, come to
Jesus moments like do you justsettle for it and this is just
the way?
My life is forever, becauseI've committed to this person.
How do you get your partner tokind of be on the same level as
(50:58):
you?
Because for me, complacency isthat doesn't work.
So I'm so glad that you're notlike that, because it's okay to
be content, and you and I havetalked about that.
We're content and things areflowing, but it doesn't mean
that we're just going to justleave it the way it is.
Because, when something comes up, it's like, okay, this is a
(51:18):
growing opportunity, this is agrowth opportunity, what can we
do with this?
But for people to be like, ohwell, this is just who I am,
this is how it's always been allthese years.
Why are you griping about itnow?
You know, because I'm gripingabout it now because I don't
like it.
Okay, because I heard a podcastViroqua 24-7.
I decided I ain't putting upwith this shit no more.
You know what I'm saying.
(51:39):
So it's, I feel, for the peoplethat aren't growing together.
Do you think men, do you feellike men, have that capability?
Or they just are willing to doit with the right person, or
they they've checked out, orlike what?
What can we?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
It's.
It's a lot of those things, butI think one of the biggest
things is definitely for theright person they will.
A guy, if he really cares aboutyou, will do pretty much
whatever to gain your trust andgain your affection.
When he doesn't care about you,he's not going to go through
(52:25):
the fight for it.
Now can you turn around and getlike so complacent not content,
but complacent that you forgetto do those things?
100% doesn't mean that it's notsomething we're fighting for or
certain worth trying to change,because I think once he
(52:49):
realizes you're serious about itand you're not just because you
know sometimes people will justsay stuff and never have any
action behind what they say.
It's just a threat.
And then the guy knows it's athreat and he knows it means
nothing because in a weekthey're going to be the same
that they were prior to that.
(53:11):
But when you show that you'reserious about what you're saying
and you're intentional andyou're consistent and how you
want things to be and you're notwishy-washy, if they care about
you they'll change.
At least be willing to changeand work on it together.
(53:32):
But when it's just kind of okay, I'm yelling at you today and
the next week I'm fine witheverything you've been doing.
And then I yell at you againsix months later or three months
later.
You kind of just be numb.
You get become numb to it andignore it, or you're dealing and
(53:52):
getting something somewhereelse and you don't care.
I am just here for the childrenand I'll get my pleasures from
something else.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
That's sad, that's real sad.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
But you know that's unfortunately.
That's the society that we'rein right now.
We have access to a lot ofthings and that's not always
good.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
So what else, as we're wrapping up, what else did
you want to share?
How you guys need that outletto be who you are, how women
have all the power, all thepower.
Okay, we have some power and Iknow I do I joke about it but I
feel like a woman does have alot of control and power and
(54:45):
that we can use it forshenanigans.
You know there's a lot of usthat know we can manipulate,
that we can persuade, that wecan be persuasive and we use it
for, like, malice and viciousintent.
You know there's a lot of usthat know that we can do that
and we use it for not goodthings.
So just know, for us women, youknow there's time sports like
(55:10):
well, I'm not going to do itbecause he's not trying, so
maybe we try to alter what we doand see if it changes.
Like you never know.
I think sometimes we're like Idon't stand still, like like the
Wild Wild West, where it's likewe're just standing there face
to face seeing who's going tomove first and instead of one
person, it's all about pride andfreaking ego when it comes down
(55:32):
to it, and if one of us canjust make that first move, then
maybe the other person would belike, okay, it's softened a
little bit.
It's like, okay, we're in thistogether, like you've always
told me.
And we learn to say like we'rea team, we're on the same side,
we're on the same team and we'rein this together.
And when someone says that,when you're in the middle of you
(55:55):
know, wanting to rip eachother's heads off, and it's like
you're right, we're on the sameteam, you're not my enemy.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
So I like this quote that he put in the book.
He said God gave us eyes sothat we might see.
He gave us ears that we mighthear.
He gave us wheels that we mightchoose, and he gave us hearts
that we might live.
The way we handle the heart iseverything, and it's how we
(56:24):
handle our own hearts, how wehandle our wives' hearts, our
daughters or sons.
That's a lot, but a man ispowerful and he can handle a lot
, and I think we just need toknow what we, who we are.
Because he says you need to be,you need to show authentic
(56:45):
masculinity, which doesn't mean,you know, banging your head
against the wall, jumping out ofplanes, climbing mountains, and
there's nothing wrong withdoing any of those things.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Except banging your head against the wall.
That's a little excessive.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Extreme right, but it doesn't mean you're always
looking for that adventure.
You know, like he says in thebook, a woman doesn't always
want.
She wants adventures she canshare with someone and I think
that if we're being authenticselves and intentional, all
(57:27):
those other things can happen.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
So I'll end with this when a man truly loves a woman,
she becomes his weakness.
When a woman truly loves a man,he becomes her strength.
This is called exchange ofpower.
Thank you, phillip, welcomebaby, aka Felipe.
Bye.
(57:53):
So I wanted to share with youall that Virago is going to have
an event.
It is going to be November 11ththis November 11th and it'll be
all day.
We will have yoga.
We have an Enneagram coach.
For those who don't know whatan Enneagram is, google it.
It's a lot of fun.
(58:13):
You'll learn a lot aboutyourself and your inner workings
.
We'll have a lot of differentactivities to help with, like
goal setting and just kind ofdigging deeper into who we are.
So the event is called Evolvewith Virago 24-7 and it will be
at a Lakeside Resort.
(58:34):
It's gorgeous setting.
It's going to be very soothing,very zen, a time to regroup.
If you want to stay in thehotel where the event is
occurring, there is discountcode.
So if you go to eventbritecomand then just put in the search
(58:55):
Evolve with Virago 24-7, theevent will pop up.
You can get all the detailsthere.
And, yeah, this is just a timeto bring what we discussed here
on the podcast to life, where wecan all come together and build
a community of women that aregrowing and healing and are
(59:15):
lawyers.
So, yes, I look forward toseeing you all November 11th.
Thank you so much for listeningto Virago 24-7.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
button and please give us fivestar ratings.
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago 24
(59:37):
underscore seven, and onFacebook, at Virago 24 slash
seven, and just connect with usand share your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
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